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Koolaid Time
12-31-2011, 11:44 AM
I hope Uncle Bob has a couple of dozen spare pallets of turf out in the Parking Lot and enough grounds crew on duty to replace any turf damaged today in this stupid Bowl Game.

It would really suck for Andre or someone to get injured tomorrow because of bad turf and miss the Playoffs.

gwallaia
12-31-2011, 11:45 AM
Yeah, maybe its just my new LED HDTV flat screen I got for Christmas, but the field looks like crap.

I hope the whole thing is replaced by tomorrow.

EllisUnit
12-31-2011, 11:47 AM
I hope Uncle Bob has a couple of dozen spare pallets of turf out in the Parking Lot and enough grounds crew on duty to replace any turf damaged today in this stupid Bowl Game.

It would really suck for Andre or someone to get injured tomorrow because of bad turf and miss the Playoffs.

yeah i was thinking about this earlier. Would hat to see AJ go down again because of a bad field

Showtime100
12-31-2011, 11:49 AM
Damn Aggies. (kidding Ag's) :D

PapaL
12-31-2011, 11:55 AM
We've been discussing this in the Bowl Game thread.

JJ Watt happened to post a pic on Twitter. I put it up in the above mentioned thread.

TejasTom
12-31-2011, 12:21 PM
Turf looks horrible.

Stemp
12-31-2011, 12:23 PM
Turf looks horrible.

Cold weather and rain isn't letting the grass recover.
They need to rethink the turf or at the very least, the fall and winter maintenance.

TexanSam
12-31-2011, 12:24 PM
Read on twitter yesterday that the middle of the field is going to replaced for tomorrow's game. Still pretty ridiculous that the whole thing can't be replaced. I hope this gets fixed next season.

Hervoyel
12-31-2011, 12:48 PM
Read on twitter yesterday that the middle of the field is going to replaced for tomorrow's game. Still pretty ridiculous that the whole thing can't be replaced. I hope this gets fixed next season.

Every year we say this and nothing changes and I can't figure out why that is. It's not like players haven't been hurt on this field already (Welker comes to mind) and we all saw Cushing do that weird twist a few weeks ago. How many people were holding their breath when he went down?

Stemp
12-31-2011, 01:00 PM
How about our great rookie punter messing up his leg just running down the field?

Something needs to be done.

htowntexans1985
12-31-2011, 01:09 PM
They just confirmed on ESPN it would be changed out. They actually showed the forklift drivers putting the pallets together before the game. And then showed the few dozen pallets of fresh grass out in the parking lot.

ThaShark316
12-31-2011, 01:37 PM
Let's get the field with the rubber pellets. :clap:

Dutchrudder
12-31-2011, 01:37 PM
Read on twitter yesterday that the middle of the field is going to replaced for tomorrow's game. Still pretty ridiculous that the whole thing can't be replaced. I hope this gets fixed next season.

I hope it gets fixed tomorrow. This is the kind of stuff sports writers in town need to address. It could be holding the team back.

m5kwatts
12-31-2011, 01:58 PM
Barwin is at the game and had this to say

What's wrong with the field? Everyone is tweeting me worried about the field for tomorrow?

Doesn't seem to think it's a big deal.

Dutchrudder
12-31-2011, 02:06 PM
Just saw one of the NW cheerleaders limp out of the end zone after doing some flips. Looked like it could be turf related as her landing was fine.

DX-TEX
12-31-2011, 02:37 PM
Barwin is at the game and had this to say



Doesn't seem to think it's a big deal.

He is drunk. Seen the twitter pics of his fridge?

rush2112mn
12-31-2011, 03:35 PM
Barwin is at the game and had this to say



Doesn't seem to think it's a big deal.

That field does not look good....maybe they are holding the better conditioned field for tommorrow.....
Some of the players from both sides were slipping on the field......not sure why.....

Maybe they need to do some research into the field and the condition it is kept in......

I was thinking maybe they need to invest in a big greenhouse....or something like that to house the grass they use for games.......

CloakNNNdagger
12-31-2011, 03:42 PM
They won't replace the whole field for tomorrow. Even if they did, from what I hear, the new grass has not been growing up to par in Pearland because of the screwy weather conditions this year.


Funny short piece I found:

Reliant roof closed for Meineke Bowl
By Tina Akouris on December 31, 2011 9:46 AM

The roof at Reliant Stadium in Houston is closed for the Meineke Car Care Bowl. Even though Saturday morning's heavy fog lifted about 90 minutes before game time, an official said the roof is closed because the grass field needs to be protected for Sunday's Texans-Titans game and too many shadows may affect the ESPN telecast.link (http://blogs.suntimes.com/northwestern/2011/12/reliant_roof_closed_for_meineke_bowl_northwestern. html)

Ruinondd
12-31-2011, 03:54 PM
Just got back from the game, yeah some pieces of the field look like crap. Saw divots being kicked up just from the aggies warming up. First time I've got to go to Reliant, such an awesome stadium, why oh why do they use such a broken system for the field :(

At least after 6 bowl games I finally got to see the aggies win. Sorry for the field.

SheTexan
12-31-2011, 04:49 PM
I was at the game and I totally agree, it looked like crap. BUT, it looked like it was the last field we played on because you could see where they painted over the Texan logo. There's NO freaking way they're leaving that field for tomorrow! Kubiak would have a stoke!!

CloakNNNdagger
12-31-2011, 07:07 PM
I expect most of the "changes" for tomorrow's game will be cosmetic..........don't want to look bad on TV.

http://xtremegreenaz.com/images/grass_lz2v.jpg

CloakNNNdagger
12-31-2011, 08:12 PM
Same info I got........

JeromeSolomon Jerome Solomon
@
RT @Chronicle_Owls Reliant official tells me there's no plan to change out turf before Texans game Sunday (only areas where Meineke logo)
4 hours ago

That should do a great job of wiping out all the evidence of a recent game.........:chef:

Norg
12-31-2011, 09:04 PM
That cant be true. If that was the case forget about seeing any starters on sunday

PapaL
12-31-2011, 09:22 PM
Strategic move: leave the field like crap, bench all your starters and key backups. Sacrifice your scrubs vs a team that you will probably face in the first round. Brilliant move!

/sarcasm

Texan_Bill
12-31-2011, 09:28 PM
I expect most of the "changes" for tomorrow's game will be cosmetic..........don't want to look bad on TV.

http://xtremegreenaz.com/images/grass_lz2v.jpg

Doc, the color -or- look of a field has nothing to do with the actual quality of the field itself.. You know that!!

CloakNNNdagger
01-01-2012, 01:10 AM
Doc, the color -or- look of a field has nothing to do with the actual quality of the field itself.. You know that!!

When you end up painting dirt to look like green grass...........you have dirt that looks like grass! And if you don't paint the dead grass to look like grass, you have dead grass that looks like dead grass. If you have live grass next to dead grass next to dirt, then your hamstrings, quads, calves, hips, knees and ankles look black and blue on TV, just before the red cart takes you down the black hole.:chef:

TheMatrix31
01-01-2012, 06:36 AM
I have no idea how or why it's so damn awful in the first place. Don't we have a damn retractable roof? Stupid.

ObsiWan
01-01-2012, 07:50 AM
Why don't they just give up on trying to grow real grass and put this stuff down...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Modernartificialgrass2.svg/500px-Modernartificialgrass2.svg.png

Just to be clear, I'm suggesting FieldTurf, not AstroTurf

GlassHalfFull
01-01-2012, 08:02 AM
Why don't they just give up on trying to grow real grass and put this stuff down...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Modernartificialgrass2.svg/500px-Modernartificialgrass2.svg.png

This was asked in another thread and never answered, what happens with this turf during other events? Is another surface laid down on top of it?

TejasTom
01-01-2012, 08:05 AM
When you end up painting dirt to look like green grass...........you have dirt that looks like grass! And if you don't paint the dead grass to look like grass, you have dead grass that looks like dead grass. If you have live grass next to dead grass next to dirt, then your hamstrings, quads, calves, hips, knees and ankles look black and blue on TV, just before the red cart takes you down the black hole.:chef:

Why, oh why, didn't I take the blue pill?

BullBlitz
01-01-2012, 08:37 AM
I hope Uncle Bob has a couple of dozen spare pallets of turf out in the Parking Lot and enough grounds crew on duty to replace any turf damaged today in this stupid Bowl Game.

It would really suck for Andre or someone to get injured tomorrow because of bad turf and miss the Playoffs.

I've never seen a thread where people seem to know so little about something and are so opinionated about how to "fix it".

Yes, there is an entire spare field of pallets, if needed.

BullBlitz
01-01-2012, 08:40 AM
Read on twitter yesterday that the middle of the field is going to replaced for tomorrow's game. Still pretty ridiculous that the whole thing can't be replaced. I hope this gets fixed next season.

They are going to replace the field from end line to end line, between the college hash marks. That was decided long ago. Rest easy.

False Start
01-01-2012, 08:42 AM
The field at MMP during its first few years looked better than this crap.

BullBlitz
01-01-2012, 08:43 AM
Let's get the field with the rubber pellets. :clap:

1. The Texans don't want it.

2. Even if they did, it wouldn't work with the rodeo.

BullBlitz
01-01-2012, 08:46 AM
Why don't they just give up on trying to grow real grass and put this stuff down...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Modernartificialgrass2.svg/500px-Modernartificialgrass2.svg.png

Just to be clear, I'm suggesting FieldTurf, not AstroTurf

It's not adaptable for other events at Reliant including the Rodeo and monster truck. Won't happen.

BullBlitz
01-01-2012, 08:48 AM
I have no idea how or why it's so damn awful in the first place. Don't we have a damn retractable roof? Stupid.

Nothing personal, but your comment shows that you are uninformed. What does a retractable roof have to do with anything?

ObsiWan
01-01-2012, 08:53 AM
1. The Texans don't want it.

2. Even if they did, it wouldn't work with the rodeo.

They can do the rodeo in the damned Dome.

CloakNNNdagger
01-01-2012, 08:54 AM
I have no idea how or why it's so damn awful in the first place. Don't we have a damn retractable roof? Stupid.

The architects miscalculated the orientation of the stadium and configuration of the stadium (too vertical) when taking into account the necessary angle of sunlight entry with time of sun exposure to the field per day (even during clement weather). The pallet replacement was never meant to there for replacement of poorly growing or naturally dying grass........it was originally meant to be there for pallet replacement of specific areas that were torn up during play (a concept which has introduced its own unique problems).

CloakNNNdagger
01-01-2012, 09:02 AM
1. The Texans don't want it.

2. Even if they did, it wouldn't work with the rodeo.

To #1, I totally agree!

To #2, I've posted this before. The Colts in their Field Turf stadium simply cover their surface when they have any non-sporting events at their facility. Field Turf is permanently seamed and cannot be removed and rolled up. One of the busiest facilities in the world is New Meadowlands Stadium and they have a permanent FieldTurf surface with a cover also for multi-sports and non-sports events. The cost of the "cover" essentially equals the cost of the Field Turf surface.......~ $1 million.

With that said, the field would look better, but the players as a whole definitely prefer natural grass surface when in decent shape.

BullBlitz
01-01-2012, 09:03 AM
They can do the rodeo in the damned Dome.

Obviously, they can't, and the Rodeo is equally as important a tenant.

CloakNNNdagger
01-01-2012, 09:09 AM
They are going to replace the field from end line to end line, between the college hash marks. That was decided long ago. Rest easy.

FWIW, Wes Welker's injury occurred outside the hash marks.

CloakNNNdagger
01-01-2012, 09:24 AM
Although "between the hash marks" tends to be the areas classically most torn up, as you can see below, it represents a relatively small area of replacement.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_eZOYmlBR9c0/TKSVEIl0SQI/AAAAAAAAACA/tVIDuvh5Dtw/s1600/FBfield-NFL-dimensions.gif

ObsiWan
01-01-2012, 09:28 AM
Obviously, they can't, and the Rodeo is equally as important a tenant.

I don't get it. The Dome is where the Rodeo used to be before Reliant was even thought about. Must be some funny politics to this situation.

But based on what CnnnD said, there are technical answers to this situation. Like putting Field Turf down and then laying the non-football surfaces on top of it when required. You're telling me that the Space and Energy capital of America doesn't have the engineering smarts to figure this out??

Or is this more ammo for the "McNair is cheap" crowd?

ObsiWan
01-01-2012, 09:30 AM
Although "between the hash marks" tends to be the areas classically most torn up, as you can see below, it represents a relatively small area of replacement.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_eZOYmlBR9c0/TKSVEIl0SQI/AAAAAAAAACA/tVIDuvh5Dtw/s1600/FBfield-NFL-dimensions.gif

You need a diagram for the college field. Their hashmarks are closer to the sidelines. Hence, more field to replace.

steelbtexan
01-01-2012, 09:32 AM
I certianly wouldn't wouldn't play AJ on that field that I saw yesterday.

CloakNNNdagger
01-01-2012, 09:37 AM
I certianly wouldn't wouldn't play AJ on that field that I saw yesterday.

FYI. In both of AJ's hamstring injuries, he came up lame OUTSIDE the harsh marks.

ObsiWan
01-01-2012, 09:47 AM
FYI. In both of AJ's hamstring injuries, he came up lame OUTSIDE the harsh marks.

Are you saying A.J.'s hammy injuries were related to the field? It didn't seem that way when he went down. It looked, to me, like his body failed him. He didn't trip. He didn't slip down and hyper-extend anything, his body parts gave out.

CloakNNNdagger
01-01-2012, 09:56 AM
You need a diagram for the college field. Their hashmarks are closer to the sidelines. Hence, more field to replace.

Here you go:

http://www.sportsknowhow.com/images/diagrams/football-college-NCAA-field-dimensions-diagram-lrg.gif

CloakNNNdagger
01-01-2012, 09:58 AM
Are you saying A.J.'s hammy injuries were related to the field? It didn't seem that way when he went down. It looked, to me, like his body failed him. He didn't trip. He didn't slip down and hyper-extend anything, his body parts gave out.

Can't really tell you that did or didn't have anything to do with it. Only AJ would be able to comment on that.. Just thought it was interesting.

Maddict5
01-01-2012, 10:02 AM
doesnt look terrible

http://lockerz.com/s/170636356

CloakNNNdagger
01-01-2012, 10:17 AM
doesnt look terrible

http://lockerz.com/s/170636356

Now, that's REAL comforting!

Nitrofish
01-01-2012, 10:56 AM
Every year we say this and nothing changes and I can't figure out why that is. It's not like players haven't been hurt on this field already (Welker comes to mind) and we all saw Cushing do that weird twist a few weeks ago. How many people were holding their breath when he went down?

I for one nearly passed out when Cushing went down and then into the locker room. To see him return to the field was a huge relief.

I know they can go to longer cleats after a little warm up action. Why don't they seem to make that adjustment when the field is slippery like that?

GuerillaBlack
01-01-2012, 11:01 AM
It's not adaptable for other events at Reliant including the Rodeo and monster truck. Won't happen.

Not true. Cowboys Stadium has Field Turf and they host a ton of other events there. It can happen at Reliant. They need to $$ up and change that crappy field already. We've had enough phantom injuries on that field.

CloakNNNdagger
01-01-2012, 11:08 AM
I for one nearly passed out when Cushing went down and then into the locker room. To see him return to the field was a huge relief.

I know they can go to longer cleats after a little warm up action. Why don't they seem to make that adjustment when the field is slippery like that?

There is a difference between a "slippery" field and a torn up field. Shorter studs can be used for hard and dry surfaces and longer studs on wet and sloppy fields. But when some of the field is different that another portion of the field (as is the case with a torn up field), then one length of cleat is not optimal for all of the different conditions found on the same field.

Hervoyel
01-01-2012, 11:32 AM
FWIW, Wes Welker's injury occurred outside the hash marks.


Exactly. This would make sense if they played the entire game between the hash marks but they don't. If anything it would make me wonder what it must be like to run on solid turf and then transition to the spongy mess left over from the bowl game.

The tray system does not work. That seems obvious to me at this point. They need to either modify how they're doing it or find an entirely different answer to this problem.

TheMatrix31
01-01-2012, 12:15 PM
The architects miscalculated the orientation of the stadium and configuration of the stadium (too vertical) when taking into account the necessary angle of sunlight entry with time of sun exposure to the field per day (even during clement weather). The pallet replacement was never meant to there for replacement of poorly growing or naturally dying grass........it was originally meant to be there for pallet replacement of specific areas that were torn up during play (a concept which has introduced its own unique problems).

Makes sense. Pretty crappy.

Kimmy
01-01-2012, 12:42 PM
I was on the field before the game, it was bad. Really bad. I almost tripped walking across it

Sent from my Sprint EVO 3D using Tapatalk

GP
01-01-2012, 01:09 PM
Not true. Cowboys Stadium has Field Turf and they host a ton of other events there. It can happen at Reliant. They need to $$ up and change that crappy field already. We've had enough phantom injuries on that field.

Small high schools in West Texas have a field turf system.

McNair should nut up and do it.

mexican texan
01-02-2012, 06:16 PM
It's not adaptable for other events at Reliant including the Rodeo and monster truck. Won't happen.

I wonder how they do it at the Alamodome, they have both of those events there. I think the SA rodeo is before the Houston one, and they also host other events like concers, monster trucks, and supercross.

CloakNNNdagger
01-02-2012, 10:18 PM
I wonder how they do it at the Alamodome, they have both of those events there. I think the SA rodeo is before the Houston one, and they also host other events like concers, monster trucks, and supercross.

I knew they used the new zippered AstroTurf....found a description of the process (http://basketball.ballparks.com/NBA/SanAntonioSpurs/index.htm):


The Alamodome is designed to meet the specific needs of a minimum of 24 different events and can accommodate small, medium or large groups. From football to ice skating; trade shows to conventions; rock concerts to classical performances, the Dome is the ideal venue for any event.

The Alamodome's artificial turf comes in 28 sections that weigh 3,500 pounds apiece. A 175,000 machine called a grasshopper will roll out the turf and then pick it up. Once in place, the turf sections will be seamed together with zippers.

Astroturf is used in approximately nine other domed stadiums and 11 indoor facilities in the United States.

The turf consists of a knitted nylon ribbon pile and synthetic fiber backing which is adhered to a cushioned underpad. The half-inch pile height gives the appearance of freshly mown natural grass.

The stadium surface is designed for a variety of athletic and recreational uses including football, soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, rugby, physical education activities, marching band and military drills.

The turf's non-directional grain provides a uniform playing surface that produces ball roll that is consistent in all directions with excellent bounce and roll characteristics which is suitable for any sport.

The turf in the Alamodome has served as the playing field for many professional and college football games.

Nawzer
01-02-2012, 10:28 PM
I was literally shocked at how poor the field condition was. It was a minor miracle that more guys didn't get injured during the game. The just have to replace this system they have because it's embarrassing but more importantly dangerous for the players. I hope for the playoff game the Texans will have a great field to play on.

paycheck71
01-02-2012, 10:33 PM
I've heard repeatedly that players prefer natural grass surface to any artificial surface, including the new Field Turf. I'm not an expert by any stretch, but it seems from watching the Texans games the the playing surface is not consistent from tray to tray at Reliant. I wish they had a system similar to what they have in Phoenix where they replace the entire field at once. Since that's impossible at Reliant, I wonder if it would help if as much of the field was replaced as possible in the same configuration that it was "growing" in the parking lot.

BTW, I'm not sure that money is the problem here. I wouldn't be surprised if maintaining the natural grass field at Reliant was more expensive than buying Field Turf.

TimeKiller
01-03-2012, 07:26 AM
The dirt painted green looked fine.

The grass was in pretty bad shape though....

CloakNNNdagger
01-03-2012, 07:59 AM
I've heard repeatedly that players prefer natural grass surface to any artificial surface, including the new Field Turf. I'm not an expert by any stretch, but it seems from watching the Texans games the the playing surface is not consistent from tray to tray at Reliant. I wish they had a system similar to what they have in Phoenix where they replace the entire field at once. Since that's impossible at Reliant, I wonder if it would help if as much of the field was replaced as possible in the same configuration that it was "growing" in the parking lot.

BTW, I'm not sure that money is the problem here. I wouldn't be surprised if maintaining the natural grass field at Reliant was more expensive than buying Field Turf.




Time lapse VIDEO of Cardinals Stadium field grass being replaced (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DALjsQ1hus). (read blurb beneath video) And keep in mind that the Cardinal's grass lays more naturally on a foot of sand, rather than a couple of inches of whatever.

BTW, does anyone really believe that the Reliant would give up the revenues generated by the parking fees for all events that go on during the season to house an extra field?:chef:


[Just as an interesting aside, here is timelapse of Reliant Stadium as grounds crews convert the stadium from soccer to football (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=IvmM_AE1N7Y) for a Houston Texans preseason game. Made from alomst 5000 digital photos taken over 40 hours.]

TimeKiller
01-03-2012, 09:42 AM
BTW, does anyone really believe that the Reliant would give up the revenues generated by the parking fees for all events that go on during the season to house an extra field?:chef:


They sure as hell won't use the revenues to pave over that mudhole in the yellow lot. If they expect me to pay for parking on mud, dirt or grass again I'll be parking 20 feet from the stadium on the only nice grass to be found. They could just...you know, OPEN the stadium and get some sun in there but who am I to want outdoor football on a 65 degree cloudless day?


It's kinda sad that the practice fields look nicer than the gameday field. Last Sunday was the first time I've ever been able to see every square pallet on the field. What's really sad is that they saw fit enough to spray paint the midfield but not the edges. What did the edges do to them?

Double Barrel
01-03-2012, 11:51 AM
I don't get it. The Dome is where the Rodeo used to be before Reliant was even thought about. Must be some funny politics to this situation.

But based on what CnnnD said, there are technical answers to this situation. Like putting Field Turf down and then laying the non-football surfaces on top of it when required. You're telling me that the Space and Energy capital of America doesn't have the engineering smarts to figure this out??

Or is this more ammo for the "McNair is cheap" crowd?

The Texans and Houston Rodeo were partners in the implementation of financing the construction of the stadium.

If you look at the endcap of each isle, you will either see a Texans logo or a Houston Rodeo logo. The rodeo actually has more event dates than the Texans, as well. They are concentrated in a 3-4 week period, though, instead of a full football season.

The Houston Rodeo is not going anywhere, nor should they go anywhere. Huge tourist draw for the city, too.

HTown2ATX
01-05-2012, 09:07 AM
Just heard on 610 that the entire field will be replaced and brand new for Saturday FWIW.

Texan_Bill
01-05-2012, 10:04 AM
The Texans and Houston Rodeo were partners in the implementation of financing the construction of the stadium.

If you look at the endcap of each isle, you will either see a Texans logo or a Houston Rodeo logo. The rodeo actually has more event dates than the Texans, as well. They are concentrated in a 3-4 week period, though, instead of a full football season.

The Houston Rodeo is not going anywhere, nor should they go anywhere. Huge tourist draw for the city, too.

:clap:

Spot on DB!!

Austex
01-05-2012, 10:24 AM
Just heard on 610 that the entire field will be replaced and brand new for Saturday FWIW.

Hopefully they wont use the same vacant lot they've been getting the turf from for the new field.

CloakNNNdagger
01-06-2012, 02:50 PM
Officials say Reliant Stadium in playoff shape
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 1:01 am by David Barron (Chronicle)

From its roof to its grass field, Reliant Stadium is prepared, say stadium officials, for Houston’s first NFL playoff game since 1994.

Contrary to the 2005 World Series, when Major League Baseball overruled the Astros’ desire to close the Minute Maid Park roof, the Texans are in control of Reliant Stadium’s retractable roof Saturday, when temperatures are expected to be in the 60s under partly cloudy skies.

Texans policy calls for the roof to be open if the temperature is above 50 degrees and below 80. The team is 15-6 under coach Gary Kubiak with the roof open (1-0 in 2011) and 14-13 under Kubiak (4-3 in 2011) with the roof closed.

Reliant’s portable grass field, which took a pounding in the back-to-back Texas A&M-Northwestern and Texans-Titans games last week, was reassembled Thursday with fresh stock from the stadium’s supply of trays topped with Tifway 419 Bermuda grass.

Seamless transition

SMG, which manages the Reliant Park complex, has the equivalent of 2.4 football fields sectioned into eight-foot-square trays, each about 3˝ inches deep with 4˝ inches of sand and sod on top. A regulation football field contains about 1,250 trays, said Reliant Park general manager Mark Miller.

The field is rolled after the trays, each of which weighs about 3,500 pounds, are put in place, and workers then check the field in an effort to eliminate seams.

Unlike most elements of Reliant Stadium, the field has not been universally acclaimed. It ranked in the middle of the pack in the NFL Players’ Association’s 2010 field safety survey, placing seventh among 18 entries on the list of best grass fields and 11th on the list of worst grass fields.

New England coach Bill Belichick was sharply critical of the field’s condition when receiver Wes Welker suffered a season-ending injury in a 2009-10 game, and former coach Tony Dungy, now an analyst with NBC Sports, said the Colts were “definitely concerned about the injury factor” during his years in Indianapolis.

Artificial turf in offing?

In the 2010 NFLPA survey, 71 percent of Texans players rated the field as excellent or good, with the remainder describing it as fair to poor.

Miller remains interested in acquiring a portable artificial turf field for Reliant so SMG can bid for the University Interscholastic League championship games, which were held on Cowboys Stadium’s artificial turf this season.

“If I could find the money (about $1.5 million for the field and the equipment needed to maintain it and move it in and out of the stadium), I’d buy it tomorrow,” he said. “I want to get into the rotation for those (high school) games.”

Miller said SMG’s grass fields made it through the punishing drought of 2011 in relatively good order by replacing rainwater with irrigation. While Reliant Park complied elsewhere with city water conversation measures, it watered its grass fields daily.

“Any landscaper will tell you that the field probably does better with natural rainwater, but we didn’t see any significant impact,” he said.

amazing80
01-06-2012, 02:54 PM
Only 1.5 Million, thats chump change, someone better pony up.

Double Barrel
01-06-2012, 03:02 PM
Tony Dungy, now an analyst with NBC Sports, said the Colts were “definitely concerned about the injury factor” during his years in Indianapolis

I'm tired of Dungy's yapping about the Texans. Dude is starting to annoy me as much as Casserly does with his spewage.

I think if it was truly a legit concern, McNair would have it taken care of accordingly.

Players have spoken, Dungy, and you're full of it.

It ranked in the middle of the pack in the NFL Players’ Association’s 2010 field safety survey, placing seventh among 18 entries on the list of best grass fields

CloakNNNdagger
01-06-2012, 03:11 PM
I dug up a copy of the entire 2010 NFL PLAYERS PLAYING SURFACES OPINION SURVEY (http://prod.static.cardinals.clubs.nfl.com/assets/docs/SurfaceSurvey2010.pdf)

It answers many questions. It can possibly clear up many misconceptions.........straight from the players themselves.

infantrycak
01-06-2012, 03:15 PM
From CnD's link there is a big one right off the bat for folks calling for field turf.

More likely to cause injury - grass 15.9%, turf 82.4%

More likely to cause soreness and fatigue - grass 9.2%, turf 89.1%

More likely to shorten career - grass 7.6%%, turf 89.7%

81.8% of Texans want to play on grass with 12.1% wanting turf.

Double Barrel
01-06-2012, 03:16 PM
Yup. And I would bet the the 14 teams which didn't participate in the survey did so because they know they have crappy fields so odds are it isn't even middle of the pack and is in the 7-10 out of 32 range.

yep, exactly. Every poll I have seen reveals that players overwhelmingly prefer natural grass over any type of artificial field.

So that right there puts Reliant in a good place, and then to rank 7th when voted on by players? That says a lot to me.

Sad to read Dungy say that when the RCA Dome was Astroturf until 2005. Talk about hypocrisy at it's finest! I have never read anything from a player defending Astroturf.

Look at this press release from a Colts website (http://coltsnews.9f.com/syntheticsurface.htm) about the upgrade to field turf:

The worst playing surface in the NFL will give way to a state-of-the-art synthetic surface when the Indianapolis Colts return to the RCA Dome for the 2005 season.

Dutchrudder
01-06-2012, 03:21 PM
I dug up a copy of the entire 2010 NFL PLAYERS PLAYING SURFACES OPINION SURVEY (http://prod.static.cardinals.clubs.nfl.com/assets/docs/SurfaceSurvey2010.pdf)

It answers many questions. It can possibly clear up many misconceptions.........straight from the players themselves.

Thanks for the link, that was interesting. I really wonder what the differences among astroturf fields are. I can't imagine it's that big of a deal.

RANKING: BEST ARTIFICIAL INFILLED PLAYING FIELD
1
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS: LUCAS OIL STADIUM
2
NEW YORK JETS/GIANTS: NEW MEADOWLANDS STADIUM
3
NEW ORLEANS SAINTS: LOUISIANA SUPERDOME
4
SEATTLE SEAHAWKS: QWEST FIELD
5
DALLAS COWBOYS: COWBOYS STADIUM
6
ATLANTA FALCONS: GEORGIA DOME
7
NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: GILLETTE STADIUM
8
DETROIT LIONS: FORD FIELD
8
BALTIMORE RAVENS: M&T BANK STADIUM
9
ST.LOUIS RAMS: EDWARD JONES DOME
10
CINCINNATI BENGALS: PAUL BROWN STADIUM
11
MINNESOTA VIKINGS: METRODOME
12
BUFFALO BILLS: RALPH WILSON STADIUM


And the player rankings for grass fields:
RANKING: BEST GRASS PLAYING FIELD
1
ARIZONA CARDINALS:UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX STADIUM
2
TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS: RAYMOND JAMES STADIUM
3
SAN DIEGO CHARGERS: QUALCOMM STADIUM
4
CAROLINA PANTHERS: BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM
5
GREEN BAY PACKERS: LAMBEAU FIELD
6
MIAMI DOLPHINS: SUN LIFE STADIUM
7
HOUSTON TEXANS: RELIANT STADIUM
8
JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS: EVERBANK FIELD
9
DENVER BRONCOS: INVESCO FIELD AT MILE HIGH
10
TENNESSEE TITANS: LP FIELD
11
WASHINGTON REDSKINS: FEDEX FIELD
12
SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS: CANDLESTICK PARK
13
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS: ARROWHEAD STADIUM
14
PHILADELPHIA EAGLES: LINCOLN FINANCIAL FIELD
15
PITTSBURGH STEELERS: HEINZ FIELD
16
CLEVELAND BROWNS: CLEVELAND BROWNS STADIUM
17
CHICAGO BEARS: SOLDIER FIELD
18
OAKLAND RAIDERS: OAKLAND COLISEUM

CloakNNNdagger
01-06-2012, 03:31 PM
CAK and DB..........your comments are exactly why I posted the actual survey, which I previously pointed out these 2010 player perceptions grass vs turf back in a spring thread.

It is the upkeep of the grass that then becomes the very important factor that separates the good, the bad, and the ugly and distinguishes one field from another.

Double Barrel
01-06-2012, 04:07 PM
My oldest son has played on Reliant's field a couple of times, and his thoughts as an offensive lineman is that it is the nicest field he's played on behind Texas A&M's Kyle Field (which is dern near manicured to perfection). His thoughts, fwiw.

paycheck71
01-06-2012, 04:13 PM
It is the upkeep of the grass that then becomes the very important factor that separates the good, the bad, and the ugly and distinguishes one field from another.

I think that's the key with the Reliant field. It looks torn up sometimes. But even with that, it was ranked by the players higher than several outdoors grass fields. I will take a decently kept grass field over any artificial substitute.

Hervoyel
01-06-2012, 04:54 PM
My oldest son has played on Reliant's field a couple of times, and his thoughts as an offensive lineman is that it is the nicest field he's played on behind Texas A&M's Kyle Field (which is dern near manicured to perfection). His thoughts, fwiw.


I understand that but isn't your oldest son in college? That implies to me at least that Saturday the turf is better than on Sunday which makes sense if a game was played on it the day before.

Every year we start talking about how bad Reliant's turf is or looks and every year we hear that players prefer grass and that Reliant's turf is rated highly by players (exactly how varies every year).

Every year we see a game where the field looks like a horror story though (usually that's the game that starts this thread) and every year it seems like something happens to a player to make us all start worrying that the field isn't right.

This is just something that you might find interesting. It's from an interview with Bum that I linked to the other day over in another thread. The interview in it's entirety can be found here (http://www.profootballresearchers.org/Coffin_Corner/22-05-861.pdf)

How did you feel having your team play at least ten of its games per season on that notoriously hard Astrodome turf?

Phillips: I thought it was great. And after watching Seattle and Kansas City last week playing in the mud and the rain and the slop - falling on the ground and sliding for 15 yards, backs having trouble standing up - I still think artificial turf is better than natural grass. They talk about Astroturf being hard, but let me tell you what, when that ground gets frozen, it gets awful hard too. It’s like a chunk of ice.

Did you ever buy into the idea that turf tears up a football team worse than grass, in terms of injuries?

Phillips: No, definitely not. Because, at least on Astroturf, even in the wet, stormy rainy weather, no matter now many times you run up and down the field, when you put your foot down it was gonna hit where it was supposed to hit. On a mud field or a grass field, there are always spots that are dug out, which are sometimes lower than the field when your foot hits the ground. I say its harder to run on a wet grass field. Defensive backs have no chance at all on a wet, muddy field because they have to wait till the receiver - who know where he is going - makes his cut. Then they have to try and catch him. They have to make a cut after he does. Defensively, you’re at a real disadvantage on a rainy, muddy field.

Do you think playing in the Astrodome worked to the Oilers’ advantage?

Phillips: Yeah, I liked it! In fact, in 1966 we opened the Astrodome [while coaching at the University of Houston]. And the turf at that time was not good. It didn’t even have a pad under it. It was just laid on top of hard ground. It was hard, but it wasn’t slippery. But around 1968 it was much better. They developed a pad to go under it, and from that time on it was good. Nowadays they use it as an excuse in negotiations, trying to tell everybody that it’s bad. Dallas still plays on it, and they’ve won a bunch of championships. Pittsburgh plays on it and practices on it, and they’ve got a bunch of championships. I just can’t believe that it’s bad.

Players are always going to think that grass is better for them to play on than any artificial surface because frankly early implementations of AstroTurf were bad and poorly maintained AstroTurf has been blamed for a lot of injuries. I think that no matter what you come up with it will always lose out to natural grass whether it's actually worse or not.

I predict we'll be swapping trays out until someone decides it's too much trouble, too expensive, or that the field was responsible for some very high-profile player's injury and then a change will happen whether players want that change or not.

Until then we'll talk about it every year and the discussion will look a lot like this one.

amazing80
01-06-2012, 04:59 PM
Colts don't seem to have an issue on their turf...... :pop:

paycheck71
01-06-2012, 05:33 PM
Field looking good for tomorrow...

@HoustonTexans Kickoff at Reliant Stadium is less than 24hrs away. Who's ready? pic.twitter.com/ihh1SgSi (http://pic.twitter.com/ihh1SgSi)

Double Barrel
01-06-2012, 05:49 PM
I understand that but isn't your oldest son in college? That implies to me at least that Saturday the turf is better than on Sunday which makes sense if a game was played on it the day before.

Every year we start talking about how bad Reliant's turf is or looks and every year we hear that players prefer grass and that Reliant's turf is rated highly by players (exactly how varies every year).

Every year we see a game where the field looks like a horror story though (usually that's the game that starts this thread) and every year it seems like something happens to a player to make us all start worrying that the field isn't right.

This is just something that you might find interesting. It's from an interview with Bum that I linked to the other day over in another thread. The interview in it's entirety can be found here (http://www.profootballresearchers.org/Coffin_Corner/22-05-861.pdf)



Players are always going to think that grass is better for them to play on than any artificial surface because frankly early implementations of AstroTurf were bad and poorly maintained AstroTurf has been blamed for a lot of injuries. I think that no matter what you come up with it will always lose out to natural grass whether it's actually worse or not.

I predict we'll be swapping trays out until someone decides it's too much trouble, too expensive, or that the field was responsible for some very high-profile player's injury and then a change will happen whether players want that change or not.

Until then we'll talk about it every year and the discussion will look a lot like this one.

I understand your perspective, but I'm curious. How many injuries have been confirmed as due to the grass at Reliant?

Not talking about Belichick's or Dungy's statements. But looking at Andre Johnson, dude was just running and fell. He did not trip on a seam or get caught in a divet.

I'm really wondering if our perception as fans is all that relative. Just because something doesn't look pretty on a HD tv doesn't mean it's a bad playing surface.

It's been a decade now. How many injuries are 100% confirmed due to Reliant's grass? Beyond fan speculation, I think there would be something out there that is tangible.

When talking about my son, I specifically asked him about the seams and rumors of different feels with each tray. He said you could not tell where the seams were at and the field never felt soft or hard in different parts. I think the grounds crew at Reliant know that they are charged with taking care of a playing surface for multi-millionaire athletes.

If it was as bad as many are saying, then we would see grass-related injuries at every home game. But I'm not perceiving it in any sort of way, and players are voting that it's a nice field. I think player opinions carry far more weight than opinions of fans who have never been on the field.

CloakNNNdagger
01-06-2012, 05:57 PM
Artificial vs. Natural Turf – The Maintenance Myth (http://www.bethelfarms.com/blog/artificial-vs-natural-turf-the-maintenance-myth/)

Installing a synthetic turf field can cost as much as ten times more than planting natural grass. So to justify the expense, proponents of artificial turf often cite lower maintenance costs over the life of the field as a benefit. But is it?

While the annual maintenance costs may be lower, the savings are offset by the cost of the initial installation and subsequent replacement. The lifespan of an artificial field is approximately 8 – 10 years. When the installation cost is added to annual maintenance costs for the life of the artificial field, the average cost per year to operate an artificial turf field has been calculated at anywhere from 25% to 81% higher.

Renovating the field at the end of its short life requires disposing of the non-organic materials used to create the field, including the crumb-rubber material typically used as infill and top-dressing which may require special disposal measures and fees.

So don’t be fooled by claims of low maintenance costs, add them up yourself and measure the average cost per year – that’s what makes dollars and sense.

CloakNNNdagger
01-06-2012, 06:08 PM
In March 2010, this study was reported.


Some reason for concern for the new Giants and Jets stadium at the Meadowlands: the N.F.L.’s Injury and Safety Panel has found that the rate of anterior cruciate ligament injuries is 88 percent higher in games played on FieldTurf than on grass. The new Meadowlands stadium will have FieldTurf, the cushy synthetic turf that players usually love.

The study was presented Friday at a meeting of the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons. The panel’s chairman is Dr. Elliott Hershman, the Jets’ team orthopedist. The report examined injuries from the 2002 to the 2008 seasons, but Hershman said more research was needed before making a recommendation about what type of fields teams should have.

The study compared injuries between FieldTurf and natural grass –- which is preferred by all players, under ideal conditions — but did not compare FieldTurf with other artificial surfaces. FieldTurf has become popular in recent years because it produces a softer impact than other artificial surfaces but is easier to maintain than grass. It is a boon for outdoor stadiums in cold climates; it is a struggle to maintain quality grass fields late in the season, like Giants Stadium and Gillette Stadium, which switched from natural grass to FieldTurf. The study noted that weather conditions did not alter the findings that A.C.L. injuries were greater on FieldTurf. The study also showed an increase in ankle sprains and injuries in all lower extremities on FieldTurf over grass. The study did not look at injury rates in college football or other sports. link (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/study-raises-questions-about-fieldturf/)

amazing80
01-06-2012, 07:21 PM
I dont think the problem is with our surface, I think it is the way it is "seamed" together. On the bad days you literally see patches of sod out there patched together. I know it will be hard to imitate what Arizona has, but we need something SIMILAR to that, ONE field set in place not tons of small patches pieced together.

Hervoyel
01-06-2012, 08:37 PM
I dont think the problem is with our surface, I think it is the way it is "seamed" together. On the bad days you literally see patches of sod out there patched together. I know it will be hard to imitate what Arizona has, but we need something SIMILAR to that, ONE field set in place not tons of small patches pieced together.

I think it's just too late to do anything about that. I keep thinking that deeper trays might help along with more trays. A giant greenhouse to keep them in and grow them in maybe? maybe there is some other grass they can use that might root deeper?

Arizona had a great idea with the giant sliding field. Wish we had thought of that.

CloakNNNdagger
01-06-2012, 09:23 PM
I think it's just too late to do anything about that. I keep thinking that deeper trays might help along with more trays. A giant greenhouse to keep them in and grow them in maybe? maybe there is some other grass they can use that might root deeper?

Arizona had a great idea with the giant sliding field. Wish we had thought of that.

Just an FYI. Space and cost of space was not a factor. The Cardinals' stadium was built out in the middle of the dessert where the land was undeveloped, plentiful and cheap to begin with. Not only that, but an Arizona family (the Hurleys have owned a large chunk of this part of the Arizona dessert since the early 1900's) actually donated 15 acres for the multipupose stadium with its extra rollout field space.

infantrycak
01-06-2012, 09:32 PM
I understand your perspective, but I'm curious. How many injuries have been confirmed as due to the grass at Reliant?

Not talking about Belichick's or Dungy's statements. But looking at Andre Johnson, dude was just running and fell. He did not trip on a seam or get caught in a divet.

I'm really wondering if our perception as fans is all that relative. Just because something doesn't look pretty on a HD tv doesn't mean it's a bad playing surface.

Bingo. I think a lot of fans are unhappy with the way the field looks and are heaping on a potential injury risk argument to try to bolster their case. I frankly don't care much about the appearance but there are certainly lots of outdoor natural grass stadium particularly up north which look far worse. Seriously people ***** about the wussification of football and now moan about the field not being pretty enough.

AnthonyE
01-07-2012, 03:25 AM
Posted on Vandermeer's facebook.

http://mirrorimg.net/im1/sjk.jpeg