PDA

View Full Version : Does Kubiak Deserve an Extension?


Nitrofish
12-30-2011, 12:06 AM
Does Coach Kubiak deserve an Extension? No grey areas on this one, just yes or no.

Lucky
12-30-2011, 12:46 AM
No. One playoff berth in 6 years does not warrant an extension. In a perfect world, Kubiak should coach out the final year on his contract and prove 2011 isn't a fluke.

But, we don't live in a perfect world. And McNair will give Kubiak, Rick Smith, and all of the assistants extensions. And we will see if 2011 is the start of good times. Or a fluke.

TheMatrix31
12-30-2011, 12:48 AM
Is his contract up after this season?

Lucky
12-30-2011, 12:50 AM
Is his contract up after this season?
2012 is the last year on Kubiak's contract. He received a 3 year deal following the 2009 "winning season".

TheMatrix31
12-30-2011, 12:56 AM
Then no. No extension.

WesmanTexanfan
12-30-2011, 02:05 AM
Easy Yes. The Texans have under achieved in the past but the only reason it was an under achievment and not what the Texans really were capable of was due to fumbles, missed field goals, and injuries, not Gary Kubiak. Gary has drafted and play called and hired to put us in a great position.

......he will get a contract extension because the people who make those decisions know what they are doing

htowntexans1985
12-30-2011, 02:23 AM
Ask me again after week 8 of next season. As of now......no. If we win the super bowl this year then definately award him.

Sigma
12-30-2011, 02:26 AM
I think he deserves the extension, now the only thing to decide is if there is someone that deserves more to be hired at his place....

:)

But I'm not an expert, I just watch football for fun :texflag:

Ryan
12-30-2011, 03:26 AM
I say extend it for one or two years max, so it will at least be possible money wise to opt out if we want.

ObsiWan
12-30-2011, 04:04 AM
Where's the "Only if Wade comes with him" option??

ObsiWan
12-30-2011, 04:07 AM
I say extend it for one or two years max, so it will at least be possible money wise to opt out if we want.

The length of the extension doesn't matter if McNair decides to fire Kubiak. I would think that McNair would structure the contract to have a buyout clause if he decides Gary ain't gettin' it done.

IDEXAN
12-30-2011, 06:30 AM
Tough call, but the reality is that Kubiak will almost certainly get an extension even if he were to lose each of the last 2 games (to include the playoff game), by a margin of 3 TDs or more meaning he'd finish the 2011-2012 season with 4 consecutive losses.
It was a weak schedule to be sure, but on the other hand winning those back-to-back games and the division and playoff berth vs ATL and Cinci with the 5th round rookie at the helm was no small feat. And in spite of the overall schedule, I think the Texans did have a winning record vs 2012 playoff teams they played this year to this point in time ?
I'd amend the existing contract, adding a single year, and then he'd be under contract thru the 2013 season.

Thorn
12-30-2011, 06:46 AM
Where's the "Only if Wade comes with him" option??

Yeah, my feelings exactly.

Grams
12-30-2011, 07:41 AM
Where's the "Only if Wade comes with him" option??

Mine also.

Maddict5
12-30-2011, 07:51 AM
Where's the "Only if Wade comes with him" option??

Yeah, my feelings exactly.

Mine also.

where are all those clever 'WARY' ppl now??

anyway yes he deserves (and will) to to be extended. he doesnt deserve to be a lameduck HC next yr. with or without wade, i think kubiak now have enough talent and has gleamed enough off wade this year to have a good defence going forward for the team to be successful- not to mention wade's replacement will more than likely be one of his coaches

thunderkyss
12-30-2011, 07:54 AM
Ask me again after week 8 of next season. As of now......no. If we win the super bowl this year then definately award him.

This....... I voted no, but if he puts this team in the AFC Championship game, I'd be all for it.

Personally, I think McNair is thinking along the same lines. He may be happy with one play off win, but if we're 1 & done, I doubt he gets an extension.

thunderkyss
12-30-2011, 07:57 AM
he doesnt deserve to be a lameduck HC next yr.

I think that is exactly what he deserves. But I also think he would handle the situation well. I think he's done a great job handling adversity to the best of his ability... so far. LameDuckiness is just another thing that he needs to show he can work through.

If he can, I think we have a coach for the ages. If not..... I don't know if it is worth waiting to see.

burro
12-30-2011, 08:18 AM
2012 is the last year on Kubiak's contract. He received a 3 year deal following the 2009 "winning season".

Does that include the 2012 season or no?

Mr teX
12-30-2011, 08:28 AM
Hell No...we've got to see more playoff appearances & at least 1 deep playoff run before that should happen.

ChrisG
12-30-2011, 08:28 AM
let him finish out his contract. Lets see how it goes next year when everyone is healthy (hopefully stay that way), before offering an extension.


Does that include the 2012 season or no?

Yea he has this year 2011-2012 and next year 2012-2013 then his contract is up

Mr teX
12-30-2011, 08:30 AM
Easy Yes. The Texans have under achieved in the past but the only reason it was an under achievment and not what the Texans really were capable of was due to fumbles, missed field goals, and injuries, not Gary Kubiak. Gary has drafted and play called and hired to put us in a great position.

......he will get a contract extension because the people who make those decisions know what they are doing

Lol.....tell me your not serioius & you just forgot to include the sarcasm smilie.....

ChampionTexan
12-30-2011, 08:50 AM
Tough call, but the reality is that Kubiak will almost certainly get an extension even if he were to lose each of the last 2 games (to include the playoff game), by a margin of 3 TDs or more meaning he'd finish the 2011-2012 season with 4 consecutive losses.
It was a weak schedule to be sure, but on the other hand winning those back-to-back games and the division and playoff berth vs ATL and Cinci with the 5th round rookie at the helm was no small feat. And in spite of the overall schedule, I think the Texans did have a winning record vs 2012 playoff teams they played this year to this point in time ?
I'd amend the existing contract, adding a single year, and then he'd be under contract thru the 2013 season.

Agreed that this is the way it will go. If McNair extended Kubiak after a 9-7 season that didn't get us into the playoffs, I can't imagine there's any way in the world he's not going to get at least two years again this time around.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2011, 08:53 AM
He doesn't deserve a thing. We have seen how his team performs without the Son of Bum for five years and two games. It ain't pretty.

HJam72
12-30-2011, 08:57 AM
Right now I'd say he's earned the right to play out his contract. A playoff win gets him a short extension. A deep run will get him a lot more than that.

Too bad we can't just hire Wade as HC and give Kubiak a 10 year OC contract, LOL.

disaacks3
12-30-2011, 09:03 AM
This....... I voted no, but if he puts this team in the AFC Championship game, I'd be all for it.

Personally, I think McNair is thinking along the same lines. He may be happy with one play off win, but if we're 1 & done, I doubt he gets an extension.

Amen, if he can take the team to a ROAD playoff win, he's earned it.

El Tejano
12-30-2011, 09:03 AM
McNair likes Kubiak. He's getting an extension. I believe McNair is going to see all that Gary has done with all the circumstances this team has faced and will believe Gary is the coach of this team.

Let's all remember what this team has done. It was one of the first teams to clinch a playoff spots. When talking about best records in the AFC we are one of the top 4 teams. Alot of people thought we'd have to back into the playoffs at the beginning of the season BUT we didn't. We aren't a wild card, we are a division champ. We had a 7 game win streak after losing 3 Pro Bowl starters on our team along with a many more key contributors to our team. Other teams with that kind of circumstance fold it up and get ready for next season but Gary showed LEADERSHIP and got us to those wins.

Did he need help? Yes. Is Wade a big reason for Gary's success? Yes. However Gary has done a great job of knowing when Wade's going to win a game and he's not. He did a great job of allowing Wade to get his draft picks to make that defense better vs. being an egotistical head coach that still wanted to draft to make his offense look real good. Sometimes stepping back and letting your people do their job is leadership too.

Then go back and look at what some of the goals were for this team this year.

Get 10 wins - check
Have a winning division record - Check
Sweep Division - no
Playoff Berth - check
Win the division - check
Playoff Bye - no

The two NOs could be because of the circumstances this team has faced though. I'd like to see what Kubiak does with a healthy team now.

I'm sorry but Gary has earned his extension. I'm a guy that wanted him fired last year and didn't think that mixing Wade with Gary would be that much of a turnaround.

El Tejano
12-30-2011, 09:04 AM
Right now I'd say he's earned the right to play out his contract. A playoff win gets him a short extension. A deep run will get him a lot more than that.



I agree with this.

ObsiWan
12-30-2011, 09:09 AM
where are all those clever 'WARY' ppl now??

anyway yes he deserves (and will) to to be extended. he doesnt deserve to be a lameduck HC next yr. with or without wade, i think kubiak now have enough talent and has gleamed enough off wade this year to have a good defence going forward for the team to be successful- not to mention wade's replacement will more than likely be one of his coaches

If Wade is lured away by another head coaching gig...
:brickwall: <---- me
...I think McNair will hire another defensive-minded, former HC to replace him. He's been burned too many times by assistant coaches with insufficient experience.

Let me take you back to January when Wade was hired; check out what Uncle Bob said about who to hire for the defensive coordinator spot. Keep in mind that this was the day Frank Bush, et. al. were fired. More importantly, it was before Wade was hired....
(on how important it might be to get a defensive coordinator with head coaching experience) I think that a person with that background brings a lot to the table, because your head coach is in a unique position, and to have someone on his staff whos been in that same position and understands what hes going through when he has some tough questions that he has to answer, its someone he can go to and sit down and discuss some of those issues and know that they have a common background. So I think it adds quite a bit.

naaah... I'd be amazed if we see any more "elevate an assistant" experiments from McNair.

Playoffs
12-30-2011, 09:36 AM
If McNair can get a commitment from Wade to stay here for 2/3/+ more years, then yes.

ThaJokaa
12-30-2011, 09:43 AM
Wait it out

thunderkyss
12-30-2011, 09:57 AM
Tough call, but the reality is that Kubiak will almost certainly get an extension even if he were to lose each of the last 2 games (to include the playoff game), by a margin of 3 TDs or more meaning he'd finish the 2011-2012 season with 4 consecutive losses.
It was a weak schedule to be sure, but on the other hand winning those back-to-back games and the division and playoff berth vs ATL and Cinci with the 5th round rookie at the helm was no small feat. And in spite of the overall schedule, I think the Texans did have a winning record vs 2012 playoff teams they played this year to this point in time ?
I'd amend the existing contract, adding a single year, and then he'd be under contract thru the 2013 season.

Actually, that's a well thought out post..... & I wouldn't be opposed to 1 year.


Kudos.

Doppelganger
12-30-2011, 09:58 AM
Where's the "Only if Wade comes with him" option??

Agreed. To me, Kubes has to be handcuffed to Wade. Without Wade, Kubes is around .500. With Wade, the Texans are a playoff team.

Texan_Bill
12-30-2011, 10:02 AM
Easy Yes. The Texans have under achieved in the past but the only reason it was an under achievment and not what the Texans really were capable of was due to fumbles, missed field goals, and injuries, not Gary Kubiak. Gary has drafted and play called and hired to put us in a great position.

......he will get a contract extension because the people who make those decisions know what they are doing

:mcnugget:

I like Kubes, but I can't even go in there. WOW!

Nitrofish thinks you're being a Gary homer.

Texecutioner
12-30-2011, 10:07 AM
This question is a joke right now. One good season out of six? An extension? He deserves to keep his job another season. That's it. If he can deliver two back to back seasons of a great team that goes deep at least once than we can talk. Until than this is laugh to even talk about.

thunderkyss
12-30-2011, 10:33 AM
He doesn't deserve a thing. We have seen how his team performs without the Son of Bum for five years and two games. It ain't pretty.

Well, lets think about this for a moment.

First I want to say that I was on board with firing Gary Kubiak after the 6-10 season & today, I'm in the group that wants him to be a lame duck. But, just to play devil's advocate & some balance to this conversation.

Let's say that the 2009 season was the first season most (of us here) wanted him fired.

To me, it's all about the goals you set & what you've accomplished in light of those goals. 2009, was our "Play-offs or bust" year. So let's say that was the goal. How did we do?

Well, we didn't make the play-offs. Why not? Because the Jets beat us in week one & we failed to win more than 9 games. In a nutshell, that's what it was.

So let's look at the possibility of winning 10 games. That year, our schedule was,
Jets, Tenn, Jacksonville, Oakland, Arizona, Cincinnati, 49ers, Buffalo, Indy, Tenn, Indy, Jacksonville, Seattle, St Louis, Miami, & New England.

Tennessee won the division in 2008 with 13 wins, Indy was second with 12 wins, Jacksonville only won 5 games. So it would have been reasonable to expect a split with Tenn & Indy & a sweep of Jacksonville for 4 wins in the division.

We finished with 1 win inside the division.

Oakland should have been thought of as a W, Cinci, 49ers, Buffalo, Seattle, St Louis, & Miami should have been thought of the same.... that's 7 games. We were perfect against these teams (7-0)

Jets & Arizona should have been thought of as Maybe; we lost both (0-2)

New England should have been a probably won't win. We did.. 1

So realistically, we should have thought we would win 11 to 13 games.

I remember before the season, I said we would win 11-12 games & most of you said I was smoking something. So let's say 10 games should have been the expectation.

We won 9.

So, "realistically" we should have expected 10 wins & a play-off berth.. he missed it by one game & he missed the play-offs by losing to the wrong team (had we won the Jets game & went 0-6 in the division we'd have been in the play-offs).... Is that cause to fire him?

I didn't think so & I don't understand those who said it was....

So anyway, we (McNair, Cal, Rick Smith, & Gary) have a sit down at the end of the season, Gary/Rick blow a lot of smoke Gary gets an extension (is that right? was he extended at the end of the 2009 season?) & we (they) set the goals for the next year.

Let's fast forward to definitely failed against 2010 expectations........ the question is why?

Personally, I think the rookie CB was the biggest reason. Why did that happen? Did Kubiak say Kareem was good enough? Or did Rick Smith fail to get someone who was?

Personally, I think Rick Smith failed & Kubiak had to do what he had to do. Now, how can that abysmal season be credited to one player? I think the plan was that we were going to play a lot of zone & try to help the rookie. If you've paid attention to anything I've said since then, this team was not built to play zone. Our LB need to be attacking the LOS... our Corners need to be physical at the line & play solid man to man coverage.... Our DL..... need to penetrate. See what we did in 2009, that's what we did. See what wade has done in 2011, that's what we do. See how we give up more yards when we play zone.... check the Colts game.

I think we should have left Kareem on that island, let the rest of the D do what they're good at & make things hard for QBs & RBs... sink or swim.

So..... I credit Rick Smith for not getting a veteran CB.. but who's decision was it to play so much zone coverage? If it wasn't Gary's, it should have been... so I blame him for that.

Is that enough to fire him for? Again, I would have been fine with firing Gary at this time, but would have much preferred to fire Rick Smith & get a real GM who wasn't hand picked by the newbie head coach...

So... why did I write all this?

I have no idea.

Hervoyel
12-30-2011, 10:40 AM
I voted "no" because I don't think his body of work justifies keeping him.

The responses to this thread, and this one in particular made me think

where are all those clever 'WARY' ppl now??

anyway yes he deserves (and will) to to be extended. he doesnt deserve to be a lameduck HC next yr. with or without wade, i think kubiak now have enough talent and has gleamed enough off wade this year to have a good defence going forward for the team to be successful- not to mention wade's replacement will more than likely be one of his coaches

I don't think Wade is going anywhere but even if he does you can imagine that more than likely we've seen the last of first time "I think I can do it" DC's around these parts. McNair this year saw results instantly from the arrival of one man who knew what he was doing. Wade told them who he wanted in the draft. Wade told them who he wanted in free agency. Wade coached his defense and Wade changed the entire franchise outlook in the process.

Our biggest problem this season has been injuries and I hold those against no coach. Not even the ones I don't particularly care for. That stuff just happens.

Does anyone think that Wade could leave and that Gary & Rick would be able to go see McNair and say "We know this one guy who used to coach defensive backs at Denver and we think he might make a good DC. He's never done it before but we have a lot of faith in him"?

I don't think that dog is going to hunt anymore. At least I hope to hell it won't.

With that major change in place I think the single biggest shortcoming Gary has is resolved. The man might be an offensive genius. He might be able to coach a QB up like nobody else. He might have his team 100% behind him and inspire loyalty from them in any situation but he doesn't know shit about hiring a DC or coaching a defense. You take that out of his hands and you're probably looking at a coach who is good enough to win in this league.

That coach will get an extension and in a couple more years will actually deserve it.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2011, 10:48 AM
It is not a question of firing Kubiak, it is a question of extending him past 2012 after the 2011 season. The answer should be a resounding "no" until we see how 2012 goes, specifically having Phillips aboard.

Mr teX
12-30-2011, 10:54 AM
I voted "no" because I don't think his body of work justifies keeping him.

The responses to this thread, and this one in particular made me think



I don't think Wade is going anywhere but even if he does you can imagine that more than likely we've seen the last of first time "I think I can do it" DC's around these parts. McNair this year saw results instantly from the arrival of one man who knew what he was doing. Wade told them who he wanted in the draft. Wade told them who he wanted in free agency. Wade coached his defense and Wade changed the entire franchise outlook in the process.

Our biggest problem this season has been injuries and I hold those against no coach. Not even the ones I don't particularly care for. That stuff just happens.

Does anyone think that Wade could leave and that Gary & Rick would be able to go see McNair and say "We know this one guy who used to coach defensive backs at Denver and we think he might make a good DC. He's never done it before but we have a lot of faith in him"?

I don't think that dog is going to hunt anymore. At least I hope to hell it won't.

With that major change in place I think the single biggest shortcoming Gary has is resolved. The man might be an offensive genius. He might be able to coach a QB up like nobody else. He might have his team 100% behind him and inspire loyalty from them in any situation but he doesn't know shit about hiring a DC or coaching a defense. You take that out of his hands and you're probably looking at a coach who is good enough to win in this league.

That coach will get an extension and in a couple more years will actually deserve it.

Great Post & rep your way. I don't think it's so much Wade Phillips as it is a guy who knows what he's doing on that side of the ball. & if wade does go anywhere else i'm pretty sure McNair's not going for Kubes & Smith's banana in the tailpipe routine again. The person who steps in for wade will likely be a guy who's done it before & had success.

In any event, if wade does decide to leave after a few years we'll be looking at some great candidates to replace him...most notably I Steve Spagnuolo will be gone from STL if they fail again this year.

Hervoyel
12-30-2011, 10:59 AM
It is not a question of firing Kubiak, it is a question of extending him past 2012 after the 2011 season. The answer should be a resounding "no" until we see how 2012 goes, specifically having Phillips aboard.

Another 10+ win season in 2012 would in my mind confirm that a corner has been turned and then justify a long term extension. another 6-10 or 8-8 road-to-nowhere season would get a firing from me.

I think McNair will extend him though based on this year and the expectation that next season will be another step in the right direction without injuries like we've had this year. He'll base it on the faith he has in Gary which will be a shame (though we all hope he's right and it works out).

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2011, 11:08 AM
Another 10+ win season in 2012 would in my mind confirm that a corner has been turned and then justify a long term extension. another 6-10 or 8-8 road-to-nowhere season would get a firing from me.

I think McNair will extend him though based on this year and the expectation that next season will be another step in the right direction without injuries like we've had this year. He'll base it on the faith he has in Gary which will be a shame (though we all hope he's right and it works out).

This is where we need McNair the businessman to step up. He has the leverage with Kubiak since he is under contract and this is Kubiak's hometown.

What is the upside to extending Kubiak this year, in the absence of not securing Phillips?

ChampionTexan
12-30-2011, 11:24 AM
This is where we need McNair the businessman to step up. He has the leverage with Kubiak since he is under contract and this is Kubiak's hometown.

What is the upside to extending Kubiak this year, in the absence of not securing Phillips?

With the possible exception of Wade being here as a potential replacement (which doesn't excite me in the least for whatever that's worth), what's different now than in 2009? If anything, the 2011 season is clearly more worthy of an extension than that year was, regardless of what happens from here on out. So what do you think is different that would cause Bob to sit tight when he felt an extension was necessary and appropriate two years ago?

badboy
12-30-2011, 11:32 AM
I vote no. He can be extended during 2012 if warrented.

Kaiser Toro
12-30-2011, 11:34 AM
With the possible exception of Wade being here as a potential replacement (which doesn't excite me in the least for whatever that's worth), what's different now than in 2009? If anything, the 2011 season is clearly more worthy of an extension than that year was, regardless of what happens from here on out. So what do you think is different that would cause Bob to sit tight when he felt an extension was necessary and appropriate two years ago?

The 2009 extension delivered a 6-10 season in 2010. In 2011 Phillips showed up and a ten win season was delivered. That is all we know at this point.

It's McNair's money with no bearing on the cap, but he certainly is in the driver's seat to wait. As someone vested since day one I do not want to witness a ten win season every ten or six years.

There is no need to extend at this point.

thunderkyss
12-30-2011, 11:35 AM
Wade told them who he wanted in the draft. Wade told them who he wanted in free agency.

& the players don't look any different than the players we've gotten in the past. Jj Watt turned out better than Okoye, but as far as type of player I think a description of Watt could result in picking Okoye & a description of Okoye could result in picking Watt.

Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin... what's the difference?

High energy, good character, team leaders..... probably the same description that put Kareem ahead of Kyle Wilson on our draft board.

I doubt there was anyone @Reliant that did not want to target Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor...... in that order.

Weddle & Manning were probably also on that list before Wade got here.


Wade coached his defense and Wade changed the entire franchise outlook in the process.


100% agree with this, but I don't think Rick Smith is doing his job any different than before Wade. Sharpton, Dobbins..... look like the same guy to me. Charmichael, McMannis... freak'n twins. McCain/Harris.... not much different.

The 4 players we added to the defense last season aren't much different than the players we've added in years past. Antonio & Watt.... Reed & Barwin... Bodden & Joseph... (Bodden was a pipe dream)... Pollard & Quin... Quin is better in coverage, but we use them virtually the same way.

thunderkyss
12-30-2011, 11:47 AM
Our biggest problem this season has been injuries and I hold those against no coach. Not even the ones I don't particularly care for. That stuff just happens.




So what about Frank Bush? Same thing. We lost Cushing (because he was expecting), then Demeco, Diles, Wilson, Connor, Bulman, Mario played with a hernia for 3 weeks because we didn't have a DE to fill out our DL rotation. Demeco, Mario, Cushing didn't play one full game together last year. & that's our defense... well it was.

The only difference, is that despite those injuries, Wade didn't stop doing what made us successful where FBush did.

I agree, that Wade's experience has probably taught him that. If Frank Bush had a good head coach, he probably wouldn't have continued to make that same mistake.

We spent all year trying to get better at something we weren't built to do. You would see us play for a Quarter, maybe a half the way we did in 2009, the way we do now & they were actually pretty impressive, that defense allowed for all those comebacks, whether they were shutting down Donovan McNabb & the 'Skins or Phillip Rivers & the #1 offense in the league.

Texan_Bill
12-30-2011, 11:51 AM
I thought we already had a thread about this: Let's Lock Gary up for another 6 years (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88253)

:runaway:

ChampionTexan
12-30-2011, 12:00 PM
The 2009 extension delivered a 6-10 season in 2010. In 2011 Phillips showed up and a ten win season was delivered. That is all we know at this point.

It's McNair's money with no bearing on the cap, but he certainly is in the driver's seat to wait. As someone vested since day one I do not want to witness a ten win season every ten or six years.

There is no need to extend at this point.

Again, there was no more reason to extend after 2009 (if anything, less reason than after this season), yet it happened.

In McNair's mind, it could also well be that the extension is viewed as leading to the 11-5 or 10-6 season as well as to the 6-10 season, and since it's a what have you done for me lately league, the more recent one would trump 2010. Wade's contribution has to be clearly recognized as well, and based on my perception of McNair formed after watching him over the past 10 seasons, I believe his response to this season will be to extend both Gary and Wade in an attempt to keep a successful partnership intact as long as he can. He will up Wade's salary in an attempt to get him to stick around long term (even though he's already the highest paid DC in the NFL), and give Kubes enough of a raise to get him to agree to another two years (at least).

Please note that this is not a what "should" happen scenario as I'm much more interested in trying to understand what those actually in a position to impact things are thinking than I am in forming opinions of my own that ultimately are worthless. Although I will say the idea of Kubiak and Phillips continuing in their current roles for another two or three years doesn't bother me one little bit.

Hervoyel
12-30-2011, 01:05 PM
This is where we need McNair the businessman to step up. He has the leverage with Kubiak since he is under contract and this is Kubiak's hometown.

What is the upside to extending Kubiak this year, in the absence of not securing Phillips?


I don't see any but I think he'll do it anyway. I don't agree with it, I just think that's what will happen.

Mr teX
12-30-2011, 01:08 PM
Dude just earned his 1st "unearned" extension this year, McNair has earned enough good wil from him to let him hang out to dry a little before he extends him again. Right now, he's just got to concentrate on making sure that this season isn't an anomaly.

Hookem Horns
12-30-2011, 01:27 PM
No way

Double Barrel
12-30-2011, 04:43 PM
Does Kubiak Deserve an Extension?

No. He's not even a .500 head coach. One successful season out of six does not warrant it, IMO.

McNair will probably do it, though. It's the way he rolls. Gary has been on the right track for years now, regardless of results, and that's all that matters to the big boss. Well, that and umpteen consecutive sellouts.

steelbtexan
12-30-2011, 11:40 PM
& the players don't look any different than the players we've gotten in the past. Jj Watt turned out better than Okoye, but as far as type of player I think a description of Watt could result in picking Okoye & a description of Okoye could result in picking Watt.

Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin... what's the difference?

High energy, good character, team leaders..... probably the same description that put Kareem ahead of Kyle Wilson on our draft board.

I doubt there was anyone @Reliant that did not want to target Asomugha, Joseph, Taylor...... in that order.

Weddle & Manning were probably also on that list before Wade got here.



100% agree with this, but I don't think Rick Smith is doing his job any different than before Wade. Sharpton, Dobbins..... look like the same guy to me. Charmichael, McMannis... freak'n twins. McCain/Harris.... not much different.

The 4 players we added to the defense last season aren't much different than the players we've added in years past. Antonio & Watt.... Reed & Barwin... Bodden & Joseph... (Bodden was a pipe dream)... Pollard & Quin... Quin is better in coverage, but we use them virtually the same way.

LOL at this post

Was the Gary/Bush led defense not historically bad last yr? My mind seems to be failing me.

Hasn't Rick and Gary not had 5 yrs together to put together a competent defense. I would say Wade knows how a defense is supposed to work and knows what to look for talent wise to make it work.
Rick and Bush didn't have a clue how to put a defense together. 5 yrs of evidence and 2 DC's tells me this.

Pieman2005
12-31-2011, 12:48 AM
Easy Yes. The Texans have under achieved in the past but the only reason it was an under achievment and not what the Texans really were capable of was due to fumbles, missed field goals, and injuries, not Gary Kubiak. Gary has drafted and play called and hired to put us in a great position.

......he will get a contract extension because the people who make those decisions know what they are doing

Not sure if serious..

ObsiWan
12-31-2011, 01:17 AM
I voted "no" because I don't think his body of work justifies keeping him.

The responses to this thread, and this one in particular made me think



I don't think Wade is going anywhere but even if he does you can imagine that more than likely we've seen the last of first time "I think I can do it" DC's around these parts. McNair this year saw results instantly from the arrival of one man who knew what he was doing. Wade told them who he wanted in the draft. Wade told them who he wanted in free agency. Wade coached his defense and Wade changed the entire franchise outlook in the process.

Our biggest problem this season has been injuries and I hold those against no coach. Not even the ones I don't particularly care for. That stuff just happens.

Does anyone think that Wade could leave and that Gary & Rick would be able to go see McNair and say "We know this one guy who used to coach defensive backs at Denver and we think he might make a good DC. He's never done it before but we have a lot of faith in him"?

I don't think that dog is going to hunt anymore. At least I hope to hell it won't.

I said the same thing in an earlier post but you said it better.
The businessman in McNair knows to stick with what has proven to bring results. And that is to hire someone that has been successful as a DC. No more experimenting by bumping up position coaches.

If I were Rick Smith, I'd be a little nervous that the boss had to step in and do a job - hire a very qualified DC - that he should have done years ago. I mean when the boss does your job better than you, why does he really need you?

Lucky
12-31-2011, 01:59 AM
If I were Rick Smith, I'd be a little nervous that the boss had to step in and do a job - hire a very qualified DC - that he should have done years ago. I mean when the boss does your job better than you, why does he really need you?
GMs don't fill out coaching staffs. That's usually the job of the head coach. McNair did Kubiak's job.

Lucky
12-31-2011, 02:02 AM
The Texans have under achieved in the past but the only reason it was an under achievment and not what the Texans really were capable of was due to fumbles, missed field goals, and injuries, not Gary Kubiak.
Don't forget hurricanes.

Surreal McCoy
12-31-2011, 07:15 AM
I vote we automatically change HC every three years unless they win a SuperBowl. I mean, it's worked out pretty well for Detroit, just look at them now.

ObsiWan
12-31-2011, 07:25 AM
GMs don't fill out coaching staffs. That's usually the job of the head coach. McNair did Kubiak's job.

Good point. One more reason Kubiak will likely not get that extension until next year. Uncle Bob may like GK but why should he make that decision before he has to?

Lucky
12-31-2011, 08:25 AM
Good point. One more reason Kubiak will likely not get that extension until next year. Uncle Bob may like GK but why should he make that decision before he has to?
Kubiak will get that extension. Bank on that. Deserves got nothing to do with it.

I thought that McNair had no choice but to extend Kubiak in 2009. Though he hadn't earned it. The organization needed the stability, I thought. I think Kubiak relaxed, and staying status quo led to the 2010 disaster.

After making the playoffs and heading into the final contract year, there's zero doubt that McNair will extend everyone. I don't agree with it. Kubiak, Smith, and company need that carrot, I think. But, I would have axed Kubiak and Smith after the '08 season and hired Cowher. McNair and I have never see eye-to-eye on Kubiak.

bckey
12-31-2011, 10:20 AM
Kubiak will get that extension. Bank on that. Deserves got nothing to do with it.

I thought that McNair had no choice but to extend Kubiak in 2009. Though he hadn't earned it. The organization needed the stability, I thought. I think Kubiak relaxed, and staying status quo led to the 2010 disaster.

After making the playoffs and heading into the final contract year, there's zero doubt that McNair will extend everyone. I don't agree with it. Kubiak, Smith, and company need that carrot, I think. But, I would have axed Kubiak and Smith after the '08 season and hired Cowher. McNair and I have never see eye-to-eye on Kubiak.

I'm pretty much in agreement with Lucky here except for the extension in 2009. I've never understood the whole "lame duck" thing. Earn it.

thunderkyss
12-31-2011, 10:23 AM
LOL at this post

Was the Gary/Bush led defense not historically bad last yr? My mind seems to be failing me.

Hasn't Rick and Gary not had 5 yrs together to put together a competent defense. I would say Wade knows how a defense is supposed to work and knows what to look for talent wise to make it work.
Rick and Bush didn't have a clue how to put a defense together. 5 yrs of evidence and 2 DC's tells me this.

& I've said it before.....

The 2009 didn't look much different than the defense you see today. If you draw the line where Wade came in, then it does seem remarkable how we've gone from worst to first.

But if you start the clock at Frank Bush, then it makes perfect sense. We finished what? 13 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&season=2009&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go)? Then we had a rash of injuries in 2010 similar to what we had in 2011.

Bulman, Barwin, Cushing (first 4 games), Demeco, Williams (played 3 games with a sports hernia before being placed on IR), Wilson, Diles, & there were several more... we picked up a guy on Tuesday & he had to finish at LB for us on Sunday (can't remember the guys name).

But last year, injuries were not allowed as an excuse.... & I agree with that. The biggest difference I see between Wade & Frank Bush is that Wade continues to play his aggressive style regardless who is in the line-up, where Frank Bush kept trying to cover up for younger players by playing zones & keeping things in front of us.

Even in 2010 you saw our defense play like they do today, for a half, or a quarter where they completely shut out the opponent's offense... that's what made all those comebacks possible. For instance, the Giants game. Our defense got shredded in the first half, but they shut the Giants down in the 3rd quarter & slowed them in the 4th.

So last year, I think we can say that we had the players to play better than they did & the coaches could get it out of them. I think the decision was made to "play it safe" & that's what made them look so bad. Still blaming the coaches, for being stupid.

Last year, we thought it was a talent issue. Pollard wasn't good in coverage, but he had 4 ints in 2009? He's starting for the Ravens today. Kj was there, like he is today on the #3 pass defense in the league. & while Glover isn't Jjo, he was definitely better than Kj (then & now) as a corner back.

Wade has been better able to deal with injuries than Frank Bush was. Most likely because Wade's been doing it for 30 years & he's learned it's better to go down doing what you do best, than to try & do something you're not very good at.

Watch when we do play zone coverages this year, it's not pretty, not much better (if any) than last year...... we just play a lot less zone, more man, & we bring pressure (5 rushers) more times than not. The same formula would have worked last year.

.

thunderkyss
12-31-2011, 10:34 AM
I said the same thing in an earlier post but you said it better.
The businessman in McNair knows to stick with what has proven to bring results. And that is to hire someone that has been successful as a DC. No more experimenting by bumping up position coaches.

If I were Rick Smith, I'd be a little nervous that the boss had to step in and do a job - hire a very qualified DC - that he should have done years ago. I mean when the boss does your job better than you, why does he really need you?

Rick Smith should be nervous.

But, like I said in the previous post. Many of us were saying maybe we were too rash with our dismissal of Frank Bush after the 2009 season. I think the problem with the 2010 season was that they (Frank & Gary by association) decided to play a "safer" style of defense which we don't have the players for. We should have continued the aggressive style Frank Bush implemented in 2009.

If I was Gary, that's what I would be thinking. In the future, if my DC said, "look, we've got a rookie cornerback & missing our best LB. I'm going to drop 8 guys into coverage since we can't seem to stop the pass" I'm going to say, "No, lets send that extra defender at the QB & make life rough for anybody behind the L.O.S. If the guys aren't cutting it on the back-end, find me someone who can."

& yes, I'm saying Frank Bush shouldn't have been fired. Gary should have over rode his decision to play it safe. Since he did not..... since he did not know any better, Gk should have been fired after the 2010 season & I've been saying that. GK & Frank Bush..... didn't make sense to me to stop @ Frank

datchapin
12-31-2011, 11:44 AM
No way does Gary deserve an extension. Seems that we are forgetting that he made history by being the first HC of a ten win team that allowed it to loose to a 1 win team. Alot of people have already alluded to the impact that Wade has had on this team and seem to not bring it up in the aspect of how the team responded when he was out. Its all about consistency, Wade has consistently put together a bad-ass defense throughout his career and when he was HC of the cowbitches he got them to the play-offs on a regular basis. He comes here and performs according to his M.O. We have a bad-ass defense and were going to the playoffs. Kubiaks M.O. has been to be mediocre and find ways to NOT win, two games showed that Kubiak is still consistent with that. Weve always had trouble scoring in the red-zone and the game against Indy just put that into glaring noticeability. I think wed have a better shot consistently with Bums son than we would with Kubes. Also Im getting tired of this perception that hes a QB guru, because after all his time here I dont see it. First off he worked with great QBs in the past, but theres really no evidence, other than the QBs liking him, that suggest he was the reason for their success. He comes here and fails to identify Carr as the trash that he was. I saw no improvement with Carr after Kubes first season. Schaub.... nm Im getting off track here. The point is the offense can eat up yards, yet when they need to punch it in it just doesnt get done. I dont understand how anyone can justify extending Kubes. Hell, he wasnt even the one that brought Wade in, I shudder to think where we would be if Bob hadnt made the decision.

thunderkyss
12-31-2011, 11:59 AM
Its all about consistency, Wade has consistently put together a bad-ass defense throughout his career and when he was HC of the cowbitches he got them to the play-offs on a regular basis.

The Cowboys went to the play-offs with Wade Phillips in 2007 & 2009.... He missed in 2008 & was fired in 2010....

That defense was pretty bad in 2010

kingh99
12-31-2011, 12:12 PM
Not until he wins big. Until he wins big the fans will be within their rights to turn on him, which in turn causes the owner to turn on him. Once he's a made coach, a Superbowl winner, the fans and the owner don't get much say anymore. The coach sort of supercedes both at that point. He plays out his string ala Cowher. Bill Cowher was exceedingly mediocre in the years leading up to his "retirement".

welsh texan
12-31-2011, 03:05 PM
I feel extremely uncomfortable with Kubiak. That isn't to take away from his achievements this season, and the way he's turned this franchise into something on the brink of greatness from a team of starters who couldn't even get special teams duties on any other team in the league.

He obviously has an offensive scheme capable of moving the chains, unfortunately, his offense seems to have a tendency to go cold at just the wrong moment and fail to score in the redzone in key situations. Thats on him if you ask me.

I don't beleive for a second that McNair will leave Kubiak as a lame duck, after the 2009 season he had no real reason to extend him and probably would have fired him after 2010 had he been willing to put the man on the hotseat.

This time around McNair is sure to extend him, which worries me, I think Kubiak still has a lot to prove. For instance, the Texans have a glaring need at WR, a number 2 for the immediate future who will have to step up and become number 1 in the not so distant. Kubiak hasn't shown me that he is capable of either identifying a WR prospect or then coaching him up. Jacoby had all the physical tools, why did Gary fail?

For those reasons, I let Gary sit on a hotseat next season and make him prove he hasn't fluked it, make him prove that he has devoloped a perennial playoff team and possibly superbowl contenders. Because the last time we had a winning season and Gary got locked up we all witnessed what came next.

thunderkyss
12-31-2011, 04:11 PM
I feel extremely uncomfortable with Kubiak. That isn't to take away from his achievements this season, and the way he's turned this franchise into something on the brink of greatness from a team of starters who couldn't even get special teams duties on any other team in the league.

So how did he replace those players?

I think he spent the majority of his capital on the defensive side of the ball, & made an offense with bits & pieces he found here & there.


He obviously has an offensive scheme capable of moving the chains, unfortunately, his offense seems to have a tendency to go cold at just the wrong moment and fail to score in the redzone in key situations. Thats on him if you ask me.


I think if he were able to acquire talent on offense similar to what he has on defense, this offense would be scary.


For those reasons, I let Gary sit on a hotseat next season and make him prove he hasn't fluked it, make him prove that he has devoloped a perennial playoff team and possibly superbowl contenders. Because the last time we had a winning season and Gary got locked up we all witnessed what came next.

I'd still like to see what he does this year before I make the decision. I don't think Kubiak can take us to the AFC Championship game unless he is a good head coach. Whether the defense wins the game or the offense, you're not getting to the AFC Championship game without a good head coach.

gary
12-31-2011, 04:23 PM
Not without Wade anyway but I just want him gone.

ObsiWan
12-31-2011, 05:08 PM
Kubiak will get that extension. Bank on that. Deserves got nothing to do with it.

I thought that McNair had no choice but to extend Kubiak in 2009. Though he hadn't earned it. The organization needed the stability, I thought. I think Kubiak relaxed, and staying status quo led to the 2010 disaster.

After making the playoffs and heading into the final contract year, there's zero doubt that McNair will extend everyone. I don't agree with it. Kubiak, Smith, and company need that carrot, I think. But, I would have axed Kubiak and Smith after the '08 season and hired Cowher. McNair and I have never see eye-to-eye on Kubiak.

I think it was about that time that Cowher found out his wife Kaye had cancer. I do know they moved from Pittsburgh to North Carolina in '07. I'm not sure but I think that's where she was from. I know she played B-ball at UNC.
Wife sick, daughters in college, cushy TV gig so he didn't really need the money... I kinda doubt getting another head coaching was on his agenda during that time.

Would he come here if Kubiak gets the axe? Maybe... I know he likes the team and the organization. But as time goes on, I think the fire to coach again burns less and less brightly. And after 5 years away, is he still that same intense guy we used to see on the sidelines..? The Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cowher#cite_note-5) said he's got a spot in the upcoming Batman movie (http://my.spill.com/profiles/blog/show?id=947994:BlogPost:3851482).

datchapin
12-31-2011, 06:28 PM
The Cowboys went to the play-offs with Wade Phillips in 2007 & 2009.... He missed in 2008 & was fired in 2010....

That defense was pretty bad in 2010

So youre saying that 2 out of 4 yrs. isnt a regular basis? Okay he got there half the time... happy. The last yr. out of how many yrs. of coaching defense? I dont know what happened there nor do I really want to know, but I cant say that it was poor coaching that led to their sorry performance.

badboy
12-31-2011, 06:52 PM
There is no way McNair will not give Kubiak an extension after taking team to championship with the injuries we've had. It is what it is.

Hervoyel
12-31-2011, 06:55 PM
The 2009 Houston Texans defense finished 17th in points allowed and 13th in yards allowed.

17th and 13th

The 2011 Houston Texans defense is at this time 4th in points and 2nd in yards allowed.

4th and 2nd

I know those are just statistics and that statistics don't always tell the whole story but I want to say that in my opinion the 2011 Houston Texans defense under Wade Phillips does not look anything at all like the 2009 Houston Texans defense under Frank Bush.

I think you can probably count the number of people who think Frank Bush shouldn't have been fired on one hand. Frank Bush shouldn't have been hired.

welsh texan
01-01-2012, 08:37 AM
So how did he replace those players?

I think he spent the majority of his capital on the defensive side of the ball, & made an offense with bits & pieces he found here & there.



I think if he were able to acquire talent on offense similar to what he has on defense, this offense would be scary.



I'd still like to see what he does this year before I make the decision. I don't think Kubiak can take us to the AFC Championship game unless he is a good head coach. Whether the defense wins the game or the offense, you're not getting to the AFC Championship game without a good head coach.

All fair points, but when it comes down to it, my post wasn't really anti-kubiak, as I highlighted, just I think there is an opportunity to make sure he understands that he has to improve again next year rather than extend him now only for him to relax, one question, what is kubiak's record as a head coach the year following his signing a new contract? From a sample size of 2, it's 6-10 both times, whats his record been every time his contract has been 1 year away from ending at seasons end? 9-7 & 10-5. Albert Haynsworth has similar production preceeding and immediately after a contract year. Only winding you up on that last bit mate ;)