PDA

View Full Version : Schaub & Andre


thunderkyss
12-29-2011, 08:40 AM
If they had both stayed healthy all year, Where do you think our ceiling would've been?

Super Bowl?

AFC Championship game?

Divisional Play-off game?

Wild-Card?

Thorn
12-29-2011, 08:42 AM
If they had both stayed healthy all year, Where do you think our ceiling would've been?

Super Bowl?

AFC Championship game?

Divisional Play-off game?

Wild-Card?

Super Bowl. With our defense, and those two healthy, Super Bowl baby.

Texan_Bill
12-29-2011, 09:25 AM
I voted AFC Champs because whoever comes out of the NFC this season whether Green Bay, San Fran or New Orleans, would be tough to beat!

dream_team
12-29-2011, 09:29 AM
I voted AFC Champs because whoever comes out of the NFC this season whether Green Bay, San Fran or New Orleans, would be tough to beat!

I think we could easily beat the 9ers.

But I think the question was what's our ceiling, not what we think would have happened.

IDEXAN
12-29-2011, 09:30 AM
Andre is justly rated as the "Greatest Texan", but he's not the most valuable.
As they say over and over again, it's a QBs league and without your starting/primary/frontline QB, you don't really have much of a chance to go deep in the playoffs.

HJam72
12-29-2011, 10:10 AM
I wouldn't fear anyone at this point, under those circumstances, except Green Bay and Aaron Rodgers, who we would probably still beat in a tough game. It's really a shame that certain players are out; but, if we can keep Wade as DC next year, it's going to be something to really look forward to.

Thorn
12-29-2011, 10:12 AM
I wouldn't fear anyone at this point, under those circumstances, except Green Bay and Aaron Rodgers, who we would probably still beat in a tough game. It's really a shame that certain players are out; but, if we can keep Wade as DC next year, it's going to be something to really look forward to.

IF everyone comes back healthy, and we don't lose many key players next year, it's seriously possible the Texans can win a Super Bowl next season.

Runner
12-29-2011, 12:41 PM
As far as injuries...

I think it is quite possible, if not likely, that Andre never again plays a season without missing at least a couple of games due to injury. I thought for the past 3-4 years that the Texans were wasting his best years taking baby steps. I won't be surprised if that turns out to be reality.

Speedy
12-29-2011, 01:24 PM
They were definitely a Super Bowl contender. Now they're not even a decent playoff threat.

Ryan
12-29-2011, 01:29 PM
As far as injuries...

I think it is quite possible, if not likely, that Andre never again plays a season without missing at least a couple of games due to injury. I thought for the past 3-4 years that the Texans were wasting his best years taking baby steps. I won't be surprised if that turns out to be reality.


Everyone keeps saying that he won't make a full season again, but i don't buy it. It's freakin Andre. He had bad luck last year and played his way through it mostly except when our team was officially eliminated from doing anything. This year happened to be worse luck, but he has a couple of prime years left in him and i think he will get healthy next year. Even when not in his prime he still can be a huge productive part of our offense and am looking forward to see him retire a Texan.

Runner
12-29-2011, 01:36 PM
Everyone keeps saying that he won't make a full season again, but i don't buy it. It's freakin Andre. He had bad luck last year and played his way through it mostly except when our team was officially eliminated from doing anything. This year happened to be worse luck, but he has a couple of prime years left in him and i think he will get healthy next year. Even when not in his prime he still can be a huge productive part of our offense and am looking forward to see him retire a Texan.

Bad luck? I'd attribute somebody rolling up on another player's leg and hurting a knee bad luck. I'd attribute pulling each hamstring (weeks apart, untouched, and running in a straight line) to things more mundane. Wear and tear, age, the nature of his explosiveness, etc.

ObsiWan
12-29-2011, 01:39 PM
Where's the "Who the hell knows?" option?

I'm thinking AFC Championship.

Not sure how well we matchup with the Saints' or Packers' aerial show. I think we could keep Brady on the sideline with our running game and beat them in the AFC Championship game.

False Start
12-29-2011, 02:06 PM
Superbowl contenders no doubt! The stars were lined up perfectly, then Houston sports karma bit us in the ass! :pissed: :(

eriadoc
12-29-2011, 02:08 PM
I think people are forgetting that this year's version of Matt Schaub wasn't the '09 and '10 versions we saw.

EllisUnit
12-29-2011, 02:11 PM
I think people are forgetting that this year's version of Matt Schaub wasn't the '09 and '10 versions we saw.

he hasnt had to be though. We have the #2 ranked defense which we didnt have in 2010 and we had to keep up with teams scoring and we have a running game which we didnt have in 2009.

I think its funny how people say he isnt the same, why because we dont have constantly sling it to win games ? I much rather perfer this schaub who can hand it off and take knees at the end of games.

PHAROAH
12-29-2011, 03:13 PM
We would be in the Super Bowl no doubt about it!!!

thunderkyss
12-29-2011, 03:20 PM
he hasnt had to be though. We have the #2 ranked defense which we didnt have in 2010 and we had to keep up with teams scoring and we have a running game which we didnt have in 2009.

I was one of the guys expressing my dissappointment in the 2011 Matt Schaub. I liked that 2009 guy, even that 2010 guy, just wished he didn't wait so long to "turn it on"

But after I got to arguing (serving koolaid) about how we'd be fine with Leinart, then Yates..... then seeing this offense with Yates... I kinda like the 2011 Matt.

Not having to throw it a lot, but when he did, he did it well. & you could see, in that Titans game & that Bucs game, we could score some points playing that style.... 23 pass attempts for 41 points vs Tennessee, & 15 pass attempts for 37 points vs Tampa Bay.


I think its funny how people say he isnt the same, why because we dont have constantly sling it to win games ? I much rather perfer this schaub who can hand it off and take knees at the end of games.

It's funny how they want Tj to sling it running the same offense with the same defense to back it up.

Texecutioner
12-29-2011, 03:26 PM
I think people are forgetting that this year's version of Matt Schaub wasn't the '09 and '10 versions we saw.

It wasn't far from it either. No QB is always as good or bad as he was in other seasons for the most part with the exception of the true elites in this league like Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and Brees. And even they change a tad bit from year to year.

Schaub was playing just fine this year. He was playing about as much as expected in my eyes. I've never considered him elite or even on the cusp of that with his lob throwing arm, his slow mobility, and his sometimes clutch type of play. That being said, he's been a top 10 QB for years that helps this offense a lot and with 22 other teams having a guy that is worse, I'm happy to have Schaub here.

EllisUnit
12-29-2011, 03:31 PM
I was one of the guys expressing my dissappointment in the 2011 Matt Schaub. I liked that 2009 guy, even that 2010 guy, just wished he didn't wait so long to "turn it on"

But after I got to arguing (serving koolaid) about how we'd be fine with Leinart, then Yates..... then seeing this offense with Yates... I kinda like the 2011 Matt.

Not having to throw it a lot, but when he did, he did it well. & you could see, in that Titans game & that Bucs game, we could score some points playing that style.... 23 pass attempts for 41 points vs Tennessee, & 15 pass attempts for 37 points vs Tampa Bay.



It's funny how they want Tj to sling it running the same offense with the same defense to back it up.

My thought on it is that we didnt need to sling it cause teams knew we could and respected the pass when Schaub was in there, hell we were still scoring at will without AJ. But then you have yates come in and suddenly running is not so easy, and teams are stacking the box.

To me we could continue to run and just throw every now and then with Schaub in the games, but look at our point total with yates in the games he's been in. That is not because he cant throw the ball and we cant run the ball, it is because Kubiak is not calling games like he was before Schaub got hurt. Sure Schaub could throw, but so can T.J. We just need to let him throw more than when its 2nd - 3rd and long.

When we get AJ back and he is 100% for the play-offs kubiak DOES need to open up the passing play book a bit more for Yates and the offense. Its one and done in the play-offs and we cant have games like the last 2 we have had.

Double Barrel
12-29-2011, 03:36 PM
I wouldn't fear anyone at this point, under those circumstances, except Green Bay and Aaron Rodgers, who we would probably still beat in a tough game. It's really a shame that certain players are out; but, if we can keep Wade as DC next year, it's going to be something to really look forward to.

Maybe I'm full homer mode, but I think this team could compete with anyone if everyone was healthy.

The Packers are impressive, but their defense is suspect. They lost to the Chiefs!

We could win in a shoot out, simply because our defense would at least give GB hell. And I think the Texans offense would match up well against GB's defense. They do not have enough playmakers to cover AJ, Daniels, and Foster.

Based upon TK's premise, I went full Super Bowl champs as a ceiling. I think the Schaub/AJ connection has the potential to be as good as any other QB/WR combo out there, and combined with a running game and great defense, why not dream big?

Texan_Bill
12-29-2011, 03:38 PM
Maybe I'm full homer mode, but I think this team could compete with anyone if everyone was healthy.

The Packers are impressive, but their defense is suspect. They lost to the Chiefs!

We could win in a shoot out, simply because our defense would at least give GB hell. And I think the Texans offense would match up well against GB's defense. They do not have enough playmakers to cover AJ, Daniels, and Foster.

Based upon TK's premise, I went full Super Bowl champs as a ceiling. I think the Schaub/AJ connection has the potential to be as good as any other QB/WR combo out there, and combined with a running game and great defense, why not dream big?

Freakin' homer!! :facepalm:

J/K DB.

Double Barrel
12-29-2011, 03:42 PM
Freakin' homer!! :facepalm:

J/K DB.

Welllll, you know me...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TTlH62UF4EU/TIJ2JMk5uYI/AAAAAAAABfA/DrQn3C-PBzk/s400/GlassBastrdPencilsWeb.jpg

badboy
12-29-2011, 06:01 PM
If they had both stayed healthy all year, Where do you think our ceiling would've been?

Super Bowl?

AFC Championship game?

Divisional Play-off game?

Wild-Card?
pre-season I predicted 15-1 losing only to Pittsburgh. I thought both Schaub and AJ (as well as Brown & Foster) would go to probowl.

Premier
12-29-2011, 11:13 PM
no matter who was playing, beating any combination of new york, baltimore, pittsburgh, new england, green bay, and new orleans was going to be a tough road.. assuming we would be superbowl champs is kinda foolish. matt schaub hasnt played a single playoff game in his career yet people are assuming a healthy schaubers equals an instant super bowl champion.. emmmmmm yea..

TexanSam
12-29-2011, 11:31 PM
no matter who was playing, beating any combination of new york, baltimore, pittsburgh, new england, green bay, and new orleans was going to be a tough road.. assuming we would be superbowl champs is kinda foolish. matt schaub hasnt played a single playoff game in his career yet people are assuming a healthy schaubers equals an instant super bowl champion.. emmmmmm yea..

I don't think that's what the poll meant. Our ceiling with Schaub and AJ would be SB champs. Doesn't mean we would win it all, but the potential was there. No doubt about it. Now with TJ Yates, I think the best our team can do is win one game.

It's pretty evident with Yates at QB that Schaub means a great deal to this team. Many of us (including me) have ragged on him as our QB, but he knows how to run our offense. He's not an elite QB, but our team doesn't need an elite QB to win games. Not with Foster as our RB and a healthy Andre Johnson. I'm excited for the future of this team. Our offense needs some more help on the receiving end, but that should be fixed this offseason. We're VERY close to being one of the elite teams in the NFL. We got a taste of it this season before Schaub went down. Next year....oooo boy it's gonna be fun!

Atl Cav
12-30-2011, 12:04 AM
I have said on here many times that we finally put a bad @ss defense together with an explosivr offense and these injuries hit us. I was crushed.No question...No one ...I mean no one....would want to draw this team in the playoffs. We would be a Super Bowl threat to be sure.

I hope we overachieve this year, but next year I believe we finally taste the Super Bowl.

ObsiWan
12-30-2011, 04:57 AM
no matter who was playing, beating any combination of new york, baltimore, pittsburgh, new england, green bay, and new orleans was going to be a tough road.. assuming we would be superbowl champs is kinda foolish. matt schaub hasnt played a single playoff game in his career yet people are assuming a healthy schaubers equals an instant super bowl champion.. emmmmmm yea..

What's that got to do with anything?

Are you saying all starting QBs lost in their first playoff appearance? I think history shows otherwise. Flacco won two playoff games in his rookie year. So did Sanchez.

And I'll put Schaub's ability to score in our offense up against their proficiency when they won those games. And our defense, now, is rated as highly as the defenses of those respective teams. I would venture to say our running game is as good, maybe better, than those teams had.

New York, Baltimore, Pittsburgh are all suspect this season for various reasons. Rex's trash talking is catching up to him and Sanchez is inconsistent - to put it politely. Baltimore has shown to be vunerable on the road and Flacco ain't all that either. Who knows how effective Pittsburgh will be with a gimpy Roethlisberger.

With Wade bringing the heat with his defense, Foster & Tate running effectively, and with 8-to-80 being a deep threat at any time, I like our chances against anyone.

thunderkyss
12-30-2011, 07:46 AM
no matter who was playing, beating any combination of new york, baltimore, pittsburgh, new england, green bay, and new orleans was going to be a tough road.. assuming we would be superbowl champs is kinda foolish. matt schaub hasnt played a single playoff game in his career yet people are assuming a healthy schaubers equals an instant super bowl champion.. emmmmmm yea..



I don't think that's what the poll meant. Our ceiling with Schaub and AJ would be SB champs. Doesn't mean we would win it all, but the potential was there. No doubt about it. Now with TJ Yates, I think the best our team can do is win one game.



Exactly..... & it's not like Aaron Rogers had a plethora of play-off experience prior to winning it all.

ckhouston
12-30-2011, 08:00 AM
I think people are forgetting that this year's version of Matt Schaub wasn't the '09 and '10 versions we saw.

It was the real Matt. The illusion was that he had two years of unlikely success. Most of which has to be attibuted to receivers making spectacular catches to compensate for his lack of accuracy. Where are we with Andre and Barbie healthy all season? Same place we are now ... in the playoffs. Drink the Yateraide, or at least hope for one more spectacular show from Jake in Reliant. Either way we are going to the second round.

Runner
12-30-2011, 08:17 AM
What if ......

I guess I'll go with Super Bowl because:

A) the Texans always win theoretical games that will never be played; to suggest otherwise is just bad form.
B) this is basically a mental masturbation thread so one may as well go for the gusto.

However, if all teams get the injury-free magic bullet, the Texans may not even make it out of their division. As much talk as there is that the Texans "own" the Dolphins and Raiders (oops, scratch the latter), if the Texans's collective butt was checked for proof of ownership a big blue horseshoe would probably be found.

EllisUnit
12-30-2011, 09:09 AM
It was the real Matt. The illusion was that he had two years of unlikely success. Most of which has to be attibuted to receivers making spectacular catches to compensate for his lack of accuracy. Where are we with Andre and Barbie healthy all season? Same place we are now ... in the playoffs. Drink the Yateraide, or at least hope for one more spectacular show from Jake in Reliant. Either way we are going to the second round.

Go back and look at all of our games without AJ, and look at Schaubs numbers.

ObsiWan
12-30-2011, 09:56 AM
It was the real Matt. The illusion was that he had two years of unlikely success. Most of which has to be attibuted to receivers making spectacular catches to compensate for his lack of accuracy. Where are we with Andre and Barbie healthy all season? Same place we are now ... in the playoffs. Drink the Yateraide, or at least hope for one more spectacular show from Jake in Reliant. Either way we are going to the second round.

Illusions cannot be sustained for two+ seasons. Before his season was ended by that beached whale, Schaub was averaging 247.9 yds/game and had a 96.8 QB rating; 37 plays over 20 yds and 9 over 40. He's one of five QBs with a first down percentage rate of 40% or better - the other four guys are named Brady, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, and Brees.

Now of course I'm going to hope that Yates gets it together over the next month. Everyone is. That's not the question here.

EllisUnit
12-30-2011, 10:13 AM
It was the real Matt. The illusion was that he had two years of unlikely success. Most of which has to be attibuted to receivers making spectacular catches to compensate for his lack of accuracy. Where are we with Andre and Barbie healthy all season? Same place we are now ... in the playoffs. Drink the Yateraide, or at least hope for one more spectacular show from Jake in Reliant. Either way we are going to the second round.

Lets see here.

With AJ and Schaub

WK 1 - Schaub - 202 yards 1 TD
WK 2 - Schaub - 230 yards 2 TD
WK 3 - Schaub - 373 yards 3 TD
WK 4 - Schaub - 138 yards 1 TD

TOTAL 943 yards 7 TDs

WITHOUT AJ

WK 5 - Schaub - 416 yards 2 TD
WK 6 - Schaub - 220 yards 1 TD
WK 7 - Schaub - 296 yards 2 TD
WK 8 - Schaub - 225 yards 1 TD

TOTAL 1157 6 TDs

so i dont think u have much of an argument that Schaub is ONLY good cause of AJ, and amazing catches, cause we all know that after AJ we dont exactly have a top notch receiving core.

thunderkyss
12-30-2011, 11:57 AM
Illusions cannot be sustained for two+ seasons.

The 2008 season wasn't bad either... also cut short by injury.

Premier
12-30-2011, 06:45 PM
the people that want to believe matt schaub is a superbowl qb, will continue to believe that.. again schaubs numbers are impressive, everythings fine when we have big leads and can keep schaubs comfort level high.. but the playoffs are a different animal, we werent going to be blowing out teams and the defense wasnt going to be keeping top offenses to 7-10 points.. close games against good/great teams, possibly on the road, these are the games historically matt schaub gives away..

EllisUnit
12-30-2011, 07:13 PM
the people that want to believe matt schaub is a superbowl qb, will continue to believe that.. again schaubs numbers are impressive, everythings fine when we have big leads and can keep schaubs comfort level high.. but the playoffs are a different animal, we werent going to be blowing out teams and the defense wasnt going to be keeping top offenses to 7-10 points.. close games against good/great teams, possibly on the road, these are the games historically matt schaub gives away..

if u are referring to last year you mean games the defense gave away, i dont know how many times you expect Schaub to mount a game winning drive again and again after he had already done it and the D let the other team score at will.

thunderkyss
12-30-2011, 08:09 PM
if u are referring to last year you mean games the defense gave away, i dont know how many times you expect Schaub to mount a game winning drive again and again after he had already done it and the D let the other team score at will.

I agree with you for the most part. I think Schaub can get us to the Super Bowl & win it on this team. But we won't find out this year, so we'll just have to wait & see.

However, to your point, All of the great teams at one time or another will have to put together a game winning drive sooner or later. Matt had plenty of opportunities last year & failed just as often as our defense had... well, maybe not just as often. But we don't see Rogers or Brady complaining about the Defense forcing them to have to do it again & again & again.... it's almost as if they thrive on it.

EllisUnit
12-30-2011, 09:57 PM
I agree with you for the most part. I think Schaub can get us to the Super Bowl & win it on this team. But we won't find out this year, so we'll just have to wait & see.

However, to your point, All of the great teams at one time or another will have to put together a game winning drive sooner or later. Matt had plenty of opportunities last year & failed just as often as our defense had... well, maybe not just as often. But we don't see Rogers or Brady complaining about the Defense forcing them to have to do it again & again & again.... it's almost as if they thrive on it.

ok lets take a look

2010

Redskins

2 drives of 70 yards in the last 17 minutes of the game

1st 6 plays 78 yards. 6 yard TD pass to K. Walter from Schaub

2nd 8 plays 81 yards 34 yard TD pass to A. Johnson from Schaub


Chiefs WE won 35-31

Game winning drive

9 plays 80 yards 11 yard TD pass to A. Johnson


Jacksonville We LOST 24-31

Schaub took us 80 yards in 5 plays to tie the game on a 18 yard TD pass to Walter

only to have the give up the game on 2 plays of 66 yards with 8 seconds left.

Jets game we LOST

Schaub started the come back with a 43 yard TD pass to Dreesen

then he took us down the field in 7 plays for 73 yards for a foster 1 yd TD.

Rackers added one field goal to take the lead.

only for the defense to give up 72 yards in 5 plays and give up the lead.

Ravens we LOST 34-28

down by 28-14 in the 4th quarter schaub takes us down the field for 2 scoring drives

1st 15 plays for 99 yards, 7 yard TD to J. Jones from Schaub

2nd 12 plays 95 yards, 5 yard TD pass to A. Johnson from Schaub

He did throw an int in OT, but did he or did he not bring us back ?

It appears to me the defense let him down more often than not, and here is total point total to show we could score but the D limited us

34
13
31
10
35
17
23
31
27
20
24
28
17
23
34

here is the total points the defense gave up

24
27
27
24
31
30
29
31
30
0
34
34
31
24
17

Now it is hard to ask any QB to try to always come back and win all those games with that kind of defensive support. I can go into 2009 as well if u'd like.

BullBlitz
12-30-2011, 10:03 PM
You didn't offer the choice of advancing past the Wild Card game but losing in the Division game before advancing to the AFC Title game.

That's what I would have voted for. I don't see us in the Conference title game so I checked one and done.

Atl Cav
12-31-2011, 08:32 AM
What's that got to do with anything?

Are you saying all starting QBs lost in their first playoff appearance? I think history shows otherwise. Flacco won two playoff games in his rookie year. So did Sanchez.

And I'll put Schaub's ability to score in our offense up against their proficiency when they won those games. And our defense, now, is rated as highly as the defenses of those respective teams. I would venture to say our running game is as good, maybe better, than those teams had.

New York, Baltimore, Pittsburgh are all suspect this season for various reasons. Rex's trash talking is catching up to him and Sanchez is inconsistent - to put it politely. Baltimore has shown to be vunerable on the road and Flacco ain't all that either. Who knows how effective Pittsburgh will be with a gimpy Roethlisberger.

With Wade bringing the heat with his defense, Foster & Tate running effectively, and with 8-to-80 being a deep threat at any time, I like our chances against anyone.

Well said, Obi.

How many first time playoff QB's have slung it so consistently well for years.