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Playoffs
12-26-2011, 12:26 AM
PFF’s AFC Pro Bowl Squad
December 23rd, 2011 | Author: Neil Hornsby

So here it is, the one the players really want to see. No hype, no bias, just a simple acknowledgement that–on the field of play, for the first 14 games of 2011–they were among the best at their position. It’s not based on highlight reels and you get as much credit for playing well early as you do late (during the regular season, winning the first game counts the same in the standings as winning the last).

We absolutely don’t lean towards players from teams that have the best records. It’s the ultimate capitulation to the power of hype when a coach says “yes he played well, but for him to get any recognition we have to play better as a team”. Why? This is about selecting the best players, not about the laziness of people who can’t be bothered to watch or research teams that are playing poorly.

Our Process: We balloted our team–guys that spend a vast proportion of their life watching football–and asked them, at each position in the AFC and the NFC, to rank the players in order of preference. We then weighted and tallied the 18 sets of votes and let our four main analysts arbitrate on any ties. Below are our selections with starters listed [first] and some of the notable guys who just missed out with the reasons why. As always, we’d love to hear your views in the comments section below.

Ladies and gentlemen, ProFootballFocus.com proudly presents: the 2011 PFF AFC Pro Bowl Squad:

AFC OFFENSE

Wide Receivers
Wes Welker (NE), Mike Wallace (PIT), Antonio Brown (PIT), and Vincent Jackson (SD)

A fairly straight forward set of choices with both Welker and Wallace being unanimous selections (Welker ranked 1st on every ballot). I think a number of people who saw Brown begin to increase his snap count from week 14 last year knew he had talent but not many predicted the brilliance he has displayed consistently from mid-season this year. Jackson was solid all year without ever touching the dizzying heights he reached in 2009.

Just missed: A.J. Green (CIN) – garnered 6 votes but his NFL leading nine penalties put many off.

Tackles
LT – Joe Thomas (CLE), RT – Eric Winston (HOU), and Eugene Monroe (JAX)

There are some analysts on the team who are disappointed by Thomas’s below average run-blocking but when you are as good at your primary function (pass protection) as he is, you have to vote for him anyway; he’s by a huge margin the best pass blocker around. Winston is a much more balanced player and a key part of the best overall line around – the Texans. Finally Monroe, who, for some time flirted, with the title of “bust”, became a model of consistency and gave Blaine Gabbert one less excuse for his awful performances.

Just missed: David Stewart (TEN), Andrew Whitworth (CIN) – both were even more unbalanced than Thomas with a bias for pass protection. After a brilliant start Whitworth faded with performances as inconsistent as his team.

Guards
LG – Andy Levitre (BUF), RG – Marshal Yanda (BAL), and Brian Waters (NE)

Don’t you just love a guy that gets a new contract and then ups his play? That’s exactly what Marshal Yanda did and none of us could be happier because we’ve been championing his cause now for four years. Levitre was playing brilliantly before he was called on to start at left tackle and then center. He held his own at those positions and that in itself deserves consideration. Waters was let go by KC when they determined his run-blocking no longer matched his superior pass pro skills but there’s nothing like a trip north east to sort that out. He’s still not the best run blocker around, but he’s good enough and he makes Tom Brady’s life in the pocket a much easier proposition.

Centers
Chris Myers (HOU) and Nick Mangold (NYJ)

Possibly the easiest selection around as no one else came close to these two. The only question was, after a less than stellar start and a couple of weeks out injured, could Mangold catch up to the Texans’ prolific start. Myers took up the gauntlet and answered emphatically that this was no victory by default. My view is he’d have won anyway and given how much we think of Mangold that’s high praise.

Tight Ends
Rob Gronkowski (NE) and Anthony Fasano (MIA)

Everyone wants to talk about his receiving which is understandable, but what we admire about him is that he still comes prepared to block. Other than Jason Witten (more on him later) which recent receiving TE has also been prepared to show up in the running game? Well Gronkowski is one.
The second selection was much harder because it comes down to what you value more – receiving brilliance with zero aptitude for blocking or a more balanced approach. We chose the latter and went with Fasano.
Just missed: Aaron Hernandez (NE) and Owen Daniels (HOU) – how long before we just start calling these guys big wide receivers? That’s what they are; hands to die for and silky smooth moves, but not so much as an in-line block in sight.

Quarterbacks
Tom Brady (NE), Ben Roethlisberger (PIT), and Philip Rivers (SD)

We don’t care what anyone else thinks – we just say what we see and what we see this year is Tom Brady playing better than last. He’s attacking more and so what if a few of the interceptions that last year were dropped, are being caught; he’s just scary good at times. Roethlisberger is a warrior and is there anymore motivation you can give to your team than he’s doing right now? Clearly he’s not at his best but he’s still better than the rest. Rivers is the ultimate default pick. The fact that before the season I talked about him breaking every record out there (I could have picked any of three others and been right) makes it all the more galling. It’s an indication of the paucity of talent at QB in the AFC that 13 of 18 of us picked him next up.

Just missed: Matt Schaub (HOU) – let us be absolutely clear, barring injury Schaub was in before Rivers.

Halfbacks
Maurice Jones-Drew (JAX), Arian Foster (HOU), and Ray Rice (BAL)

Jones-Drew and Foster were both locks after excellent all-round years. It’s particularly nice that both of these guys stand up in pass protection too. There was a lot of debate about the last spot. Ray Rice is more of a receiver than a runner and that detracted in some analysts’ eyes. Sure the numbers are there but it can be boom or bust dependent on his line’s performance. In the end though he is the best receiving back playing and that stood in his favor.

Just missed: Cedric Benson (CIN), Fred Jackson (BUF) – some preferred Benson over Rice because of his aggressive, hardnosed running style but in the end 64 yards with three drops out of the backfield was too far off the pace for most. Jackson would have been the starter but for injury; plain and simple.

Fullback
Vonta Leach (BAL)

Not quite back to the pomp of his 2008 season. Then he really brought the hammer in some games, but perhaps this year has been more consistent. The best blocker in the AFC by some way.

Just missed: Marcel Reece (OAK) Look, we know he will get consideration but it’s a novelty thing. Good runner, good receiver but a poor blocker and as blocking is what we want from a fullback we’ll stick with Leach.

AFC DEFENSE

Defensive Ends
Terrell Suggs (BAL), Andre Carter (NE), and Brett Keisel (PIT)

Let’s be honest here, if we mixed the AFC and NFC only Suggs would be in with a shout of the top six spots. That’s not to say Carter and Keisel are default selections the way Philip Rivers is, just that there’s a log-jam of talent in the NFC at end. Regardless Suggs is the ultimate all-round end (end not linebacker although he is being used more and more in that role as the season progresses) with a propensity to get after the QB but also play the run better than anyone else at his position.

After a year of trying (and failing) to play stand up linebacker on the left side of the line (he’d always been a DRE prior to that) in Washington the Patriots picked up Carter to generate some pressure, but even they didn’t expect the metamorphosis they got. Carter has always been a brilliant rusher and a marginal run defender but this year, if anything, he’s played the run better than the pass and he’s done a fine job of that. Lastly, with Aaron Smith out again (and looking shot before he was injured anyway) Keisel has taken on the mantle and become as much the consummate 3-4 end as Smith was.

Just missed: Carlos Dunlap (CIN), J.J. Watt (HOU) & Jabaal Sheard (CLE) – before his injury, from which he’s just returning, no one generated as much pressure per snap as Dunlap. Unfortunately it’s always from sub –packages, so in our books he’s ineligible. Watt was close but just missed out to Keisel, while Sheard has flashed but also disappeared for huge chunks of the season.

Defensive Tackles
Geno Atkins (CIN), Broderick Bunkley (DEN), and Haloti Ngata (BAL)

No one comes close to generating as much pressure as Atkins from defensive tackle. With numbers very similar to these last year all we heard about was Ndamukong Suh but for some reason, I guess a fourth round pick doesn’t have quite the cache of a two overall. So to many Atkins is still a mystery. What makes this more surprising is he’s solid against the run too. That said he’s nowhere close to being as robust in that department as Bunkley; no one is. Talk about Tebow as much as you want, rightfully rave about Von Miller, but Bunkley is the glue that makes running between the tackles against the Broncos, an exercise in futility. To round out the group Ngata does most things well, the hype seems to have dissipated and what’s left is a fine player who can do it all.

Just missed: Sione Pouha (NYJ) & Richard Seymour (OAK) – while Pouha has only Bunkley to thank for his omission (being the 2nd best run defender in the AFC didn’t quite cut it) Seymour has only himself to blame. He’s been a more dangerous player than Ngata in all areas but ten penalties is ridiculous and couldn’t be ignored.

Outside Linebackers
Von Miller (DEN), Cameron Wake (MIA), and Daryl Smith (JAX)

Someone told me that this fine site has been renamed vonmillerrulz.com by (I’m assuming) a non broncos fan. We simply say what we see and we see a once in a generation player if Miller can repeat this season. Wake has already shown he’s not a one season wonder and has now firmly established himself among the elite pass rushers around. Remember those people who said he wasn’t getting a starting berth because of dubious run defending? They were as speculative then as they are wrong now. Daryl Smith will never, ever make the “other” Pro Bowl squad because he doesn’t create stats. It’s their loss because he’s a guy that does it all well; run, pass rush and coverage – the consummate linebacker.

Just missed: Kamerion Wimbley (OAK) – Good pass rusher, good run defender so why does he miss out? Because he’s really an end standing up in base for some and for others, well, they applied “The Brandon Dombrowski factor”. This is a mythical negative coefficient used when over 60% of your total pass rushing grade comes against the San Diego tackle.

Inside Linebackers
Derrick Johnson (KC) and Brian Cushing (HOU)

In the wreck which is the Chiefs season, one thing stands out; the performance of Derrick Johnson. A long time ago in a season far, far away (2009 actually) a very silly coach benched the Mr. Johnson for what appeared to be the heinous crime of being the second best player on the team. Well now he’s the best; a guy who can meet fullbacks head on or tracks speedy halfbacks to the sideline and the aforementioned coach is out of a job. What goes around comes around I guess, which is a tenuous segue into the defensive rookie of the year in 2009, who tanked in 2010 and has come back better than ever this year. Like Johnson, Cushing excels in all parts of the game including coverage and pass rushing.

Just missed: Ray Lewis (BAL) – There was no specific reason to criticize him because the difference between the Raven and Cushing was paper thin. Either would be a worthy choice.

Cornerbacks
Darrelle Revis (NYJ), Jonathan Joseph (HOU), and Cortland Finnegan (TEN)

Still top ranked by all but Revis has been mortal the last few weeks, perhaps he’s just luring quarterbacks into a false sense of security for a playoff run. Has any single player had a more marked effect on a defense than Joseph? A secondary which was a laughing stock is now dangerous and much of that is down to him. What’s remarkable about Finnegan this year is that he’s taken slot duty in the Titans’ nickel. Normally that’s a recipe for completions and yardage and about as tricky a thing to do as there is. He’s been great from the get go, bringing the heat in run defense, as well as his coverage, and has also cut out all the stupidity. Maybe Richard Seymour could get some pointers.

Just missed: Lardarius Webb (BAL) – a very close run thing between Finnegan and one of the only starting corners in the NFL not to give up a touchdown. In the end though, the fact the Titan played slot won us over.

Safeties
FS – Eric Weddle (SD), SS – Troy Polamalu (PIT), and Jarius Byrd (BUF)

Weddle was unanimous as he made those who questioned his contract eat their words. Polamalu is a frustrating player, because you have no idea what he’ll do; randomly take off to undercut something leaving his guy open for a big gain one play, then make a one handed diving interception the next. We’ve all seen the best, and worst, of him this year – many of us in the same game. In the end though he was a better choice than anyone else.

Byrd’s a little bit like Ngata in that, now all the hype is dying down, he’s turning into a better player than he was when he was making tons of interceptions on badly overthrown passes and little else.

Just missed: Ed Reed (BAL) – he’s in the debate because he still does most things well, just not as well as he used to do.

Special Teams
K – Sebastian Janikowski (OAK), P – Shane Lechler (OAK), KR – Antonio Brown (PIT), ST – Cedric Peerman (CIN)

Just missed: Matt Prater (DEN), Britton Colquitt (DEN) – In the end the best home-field advantage for kickers in the league weighed against the two men from Denver

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/23/pff-afc-pro-bowl-squad/

TheDream34
12-26-2011, 12:55 AM
Is it just me or is Eric Winston starting to become really overrated by the media.

aussie_texan
12-26-2011, 01:36 AM
Is it just me or is Eric Winston starting to become really overrated by the media.

or underrated by us :kitten:

TexansLucky13
12-26-2011, 01:39 AM
Is it just me or is Eric Winston starting to become really overrated by the media.

Mathis thought he was overrated on Thursday night as well

IDEXAN
12-26-2011, 07:42 AM
I like all of the Texans picks and think they are fair and reasonable, except for Winston. It will be a real travesty if he is chosen and Duane Brown is not, but I wouldn't be surprised it that happens. Also you can be sure that Ray Lewis will be chosen as one of the ILBs instead of Johnson or Cushing and that will also be a joke since the old man is just a shadow of his former self of 5 or 6 years ago except for his non-stop motor-mouth. The only thing outstanding about Ray Lewis these days is his oversized mouth and gigantic ego.
Oh and JJ Watt is clearly now our top Dlineman after that tremendous performance this past Thursday in Indy. He's a worthy PB candidae but doubt he'll get his rookie year ?

HJam72
12-26-2011, 07:46 AM
I don't wanna say that Winston doesn't deserve it, but I can't see how he makes it and Duane Brown doesn't. Almost went back again to make sure Brown wasn't there, but I know I didn't see him.

infantrycak
12-26-2011, 10:13 AM
I don't wanna say that Winston doesn't deserve it, but I can't see how he makes it and Duane Brown doesn't. Almost went back again to make sure Brown wasn't there, but I know I didn't see him.

PFF specifically picks a LT and a RT so Winston was not in competition with Brown. The real pro-bowl selection process doesn't work that way and 95% of the time only LT's are selected.

And to answer the question above about the media - I lean to no, he like Schaub is under appreciated by Houston fans.

NitroGSXR
12-26-2011, 10:26 AM
PFF specifically picks a LT and a RT so Winston was not in competition with Brown. The real pro-bowl selection process doesn't work that way and 95% of the time only LT's are selected.

And to answer the question above about the media - I lean to no, he like Schaub is under appreciated by Houston fans.

Looks like James Harrison didn't get to vote. Ha! I thought I read somewhere that Brown has yet to give up a sack this season. I am not sure how they tally or credit OLs for giving up sacks but or anything like that but is Joe Thomas really that much better than Duane Brown? I don't think Brown has been underappreciated by Houston fans for a while. If one does not hear about an OL, it usually means they are doing their jobs very well. I think this selection was based on draft position.

Dawgnme
12-26-2011, 11:08 AM
Mathis thought he was overrated on Thursday night as well

Maybe the Colts fans were doing the wave and he got distracted again. :scarygirl:

Seriously though, just because he's articulate and has a good knowledge of the game doesn't mean he should be immune from criticism. Kubes takes the occasional heater from fans during his segment - I've never understood why Winston gets treated w/kid gloves. His and Brisiel's false starts are ubiquitous, and Mathis made him look like David Anderson snuck in and strapped on a #73 jersey.

texanhead08
12-26-2011, 11:14 AM
The hardest positions to make the pro bowl are DE, LT, and WR. There are a lot of great players at those positions and sometimes its the next year after you have a great season that you break through and make the pro bowl.

Playoffs
12-26-2011, 11:17 AM
...but is Joe Thomas really that much better than Duane Brown?
Joe Thomas is da man. Tough category for Duane, who has had a great year.

I remember watching him in that first game against the Colts when Freeney was trying to bend him over backwards & break his back. Duane held his own there, and I was thinking how good he has become. Cracking James Harrison's orbital was just brutal. What a fortunate choice he's become.

SheTexan
12-26-2011, 11:24 AM
Bs!!

pbat488
12-26-2011, 12:31 PM
it's hard to disagree with PFF since they're so thorough in their scouting and judging system, but watching winston every week, it's just hard to imagine him being the best RT in the AFC. I feel like he gets a substantial bump, like mid-season all-pro from peter king, due to his numerous media appearances over the past couple of seasons. seems like he's trying to shoe himself in to a media job after he retires and is reaping some of those benefits while playing.

or I could just not realize what i'm watching and he could be one of the best, I don't know. it just feels like he is overrated at this point.

Carr Bombed
12-26-2011, 02:40 PM
PFF specifically picks a LT and a RT so Winston was not in competition with Brown. The real pro-bowl selection process doesn't work that way and 95% of the time only LT's are selected.

And to answer the question above about the media - I lean to no, he like Schaub is under appreciated by Houston fans.

Can somebody explain to me why Eugene Monroe is listed ahead of Duane Brown..

Especially when Connor Barwin almost put himself into the probowl going up against Eugene Monroe. Connor Barwin made him look like a street FA in that game and Duane Brown has never played that poorly.

According to this site Duane Brown has allowed fewer sacks and has committed fewer penalties as well. (Duane Brown hasn't committed one single holding foul all season long)

Duane Brown stats (http://yesnetwork.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8803&team=34)

Eugene Monroe stats (http://yesnetwork.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=9272&team=30)

and his stats blow Joe Thomas' out of the water...

Joe Thomas (http://yesnetwork.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8257&team=5)

If Duane Brown doesn't get a invitation to Hawaii it will be a huge snub. Nobody is playing the LT position better than Brown is right now and he's also a elite down field run blocker with his rare athleticism. He's developed into a very special player.

NitroGSXR
12-26-2011, 02:49 PM
Can somebody explain to me why Eugene Monroe is listed ahead of Duane Brown..

Especially when Connor Barwin almost put himself into the probowl going up against Eugene Monroe. Connor Barwin made him look like a street FA in that game and Duane Brown has never played that poorly.

According to this site Duane Brown has allowed fewer sacks and has committed fewer penalties as well. (Duane Brown hasn't committed one single holding foul all season long)

Duane Brown stats (http://yesnetwork.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8803&team=34)

Eugene Monroe stats (http://yesnetwork.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=9272&team=30)

and his stats blow Joe Thomas' out of the water...

Joe Thomas (http://yesnetwork.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8257&team=5)

If Duane Brown doesn't get a invitation to Hawaii it will be a huge snub. Nobody is playing the LT position better than Brown is right now and he's also a elite down field run blocker with his rare athleticism. He's developed into a very special player.

According to that site, Duane hasn't committed a holding penalty in over 3 years! Wow! Definite snub all around. We very well may have the best LT in the NFL.

SW H-TOWN
12-26-2011, 03:23 PM
Wake over Suggs, Hali, and Barwin....EPIC FAIL.

Carr Bombed
12-26-2011, 04:40 PM
Here's how the fan voting looks to turn out for AFC South players..

Here's everyone from the division who ranks in the top five at his position:
•Running back: 1. Arian Foster; 2. Maurice Jones-Drew.
•Fullback: 5. James Casey.
•Tight end: 3. Owen Daniels.
•Center: 5. Jeff Saturday.
•Defensive end: 2. Dwight Freeney; 3. Robert Mathis; 4. Antonio Smith.
•Inside linebacker: 2. Pat Angerer; 4. Brian Cushing.
•Free safety: 4. Antoine Bethea.
•Kicker: 4. Neil Rackers; 5. Josh Scobee.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/31937/the-afc-south-in-pro-bowl-fan-voting

Fans are pretty dumb.

Jeff Saturday in the top 5......no Chris Myers at all.

Foster ahead of MJD...love Foster, but have to give MJD his props. He deserves to be #1

Rackers in the top 5 and ahead of Scobee

You can make a case that Owen hasn't even been the best TE on his team this season, but he's listed at #3...same with James Casey, he hasn't been the best FB on his own roster

No mention of Watt or Barwin and the worst of all

J.Jo and Duane Brown who are having all pro type years don't even finish in the top 5 in the conference at their positions and Cushing is listed at
#4.

:vincepalm: The fans suck at this. I'm glad it isn't like the N.B.A. and people who actually know what they're doing make up the other 2/3rds of the vote.

ThaShark316
12-26-2011, 04:45 PM
Left my boy Brown off the list. Damn.

I bet the Ninja would be on there if he didn't get that shoulder banged up.

thunderkyss
12-26-2011, 05:09 PM
Is it just me or is Eric Winston starting to become really overrated by the media.

I'm not his biggest fan. But, if we're going to limit the selection only to RTs in the AFC, I think it's an easy group to come out on top of. Who else is out there?

I doubt there is anyone better on the right side in the run game. & his pass blocking has only been suspect when he's going against elite, or pseudo elite talent....... Cameron Wake is on that list (the PFF AFC Pro Bowl list).... & Mathis is no joke.

I don't remember Mathis getting the better of Winston in the first game with an experience RG next to him & an experience QB in the backfield.

Duane Brown coming in 2nd to anyone is a travesty.

ObsiWan
12-26-2011, 05:32 PM
Is it just me or is Eric Winston starting to become really overrated by the media.

Mathis thought he was overrated on Thursday night as well

But remember, they only analyzed the first 14 games. That embarrassment in game 15 didn't count.

How they left off Duane Brown is what amazes me. Dude didn't give up a single sack according to their own assessments. And he doesn't even get a "Just missed" rating? WTF???
:toropalm:

Playoffs
12-26-2011, 06:06 PM
...How they left off Duane Brown is what amazes me. Dude didn't give up a single sack according to their own assessments. And he doesn't even get a "Just missed" rating? WTF???
I tweeted that question the author.

Remember, though, Joe Thomas is widely considered the best LT in the NFL.

Carr Bombed
12-26-2011, 07:00 PM
I tweeted that question the author.

Remember, though, Joe Thomas is widely considered the best LT in the NFL.

He's considered the best, but he hasn't been. He's given up more sacks, committed alot more penalties (especially false starts) and hasn't been remotely close to as dominant as Brown has in the running game.

Insideop
12-26-2011, 07:31 PM
The Brown and Barwin omissions on the PFF AFC Pro Bowl squad are, to say the least, ridiculous. Brown has played much better than any of the 3 that were selected and Barwin has played better than Wake. And, they didn't even mention them as "just missed." The only thing I can think of is they don't want too many from 1 or 2 teams and nobody from other teams. They're trying to balance it out whether it's right or not. Hope Brown and Barwin make the real Pro Bowl. They definitely deserve it IMO.

Hervoyel
12-26-2011, 07:43 PM
All these so-called snubs are the result of Texans failures of the past (as in last year, last week, the week before that....) Win. Keep winning. Then win some more after that. People will appreciate your players. You're seeing it now starting to help but laying eggs on prime-time TV doesn't help your case.

In a year when the Colts have gone belly-up without Manning a 10-6 finish is roughly equal to another 8-8/9-7 in my book. This year has been better than most but if they're just happy to make the playoffs and exit after one round (hopefully not in embarrassing fashion but who knows) then they've got more work to do. Maybe come back next year, stay healthy, and take another step forward.

thunderkyss
12-26-2011, 07:50 PM
You're seeing it now starting to help but laying eggs on prime-time TV doesn't help your case.


There's a difference between laying an egg & what we saw Thursday night.

Not talking about "moral victories" or anything like that.

But JJ Watt had a coming out party, Duane Brown was a monster, & Arian had another excellent game.

That was some good football.

The Colts might be the worst team in the league, but they didn't play like it. They played like a divisional opponent that had something to hold over the "younger brother" Texans & were going to do whatever to make sure they held on to it..... never winning in Indy.

.

ObsiWan
12-26-2011, 08:57 PM
All these so-called snubs are the result of Texans failures of the past (as in last year, last week, the week before that....) Win. Keep winning. Then win some more after that. People will appreciate your players. You're seeing it now starting to help but laying eggs on prime-time TV doesn't help your case.

In a year when the Colts have gone belly-up without Manning a 10-6 finish is roughly equal to another 8-8/9-7 in my book. This year has been better than most but if they're just happy to make the playoffs and exit after one round (hopefully not in embarrassing fashion but who knows) then they've got more work to do. Maybe come back next year, stay healthy, and take another step forward.

I hear what you're sayin' but that's ain't the lie they told at the beginning of this article...
We absolutely don’t lean towards players from teams that have the best records. It’s the ultimate capitulation to the power of hype when a coach says “yes he played well, but for him to get any recognition we have to play better as a team”. Why? This is about selecting the best players, not about the laziness of people who can’t be bothered to watch or research teams that are playing poorly.


They just flat blew this assessment. Apparently, they must have the same judgement skills of the ref crew we had last Thursday night.

Hervoyel
12-26-2011, 10:06 PM
I hear what you're sayin' but that's ain't the lie they told at the beginning of this article...


They just flat blew this assessment. Apparently, they must have the same judgement skills of the ref crew we had last Thursday night.


I hear you but I wasn't responding specifically to this article. More to the general idea that we get snubbed when Pro Bowl time comes around.

Carr Bombed
12-26-2011, 10:11 PM
I hear you but I wasn't responding specifically to this article. More to the general idea that we get snubbed when Pro Bowl time comes around.

Yeah, but the problem is most of the votes have already been casted (like the fan votes, which has already closed) and until recently we were tied for the #1 seed in the AFC South. The poor play the last couple of weeks really has no effect on how the voting will eventually turn out.

As for as ProFootballFocus, I don't really care what they think, because in the big scheme of things they don't even have a vote. I hope the coaches and players get it right.

SW H-TOWN
12-26-2011, 10:17 PM
Wake over Suggs, Hali, and Barwin....EPIC FAIL.

Winston and Monroe over Brown....EPIC FAIL PART II. Ask James Harrison.

Playoffs
12-27-2011, 01:03 PM
PFF_Neil Neil Hornsby
@
@Asleep Still not given up a sack but has been flagged 4 times; 2 x FS, Illegal use of hands & a PF
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

So I asked him:

Asleep
@
@PFF_Neil Joe Thomas has 6 FS, 1 Holding, & 3.50 sacks. Our question is how is that better than Duane Brown?
8 seconds ago Favorite Reply Delete

Señor Stan
12-27-2011, 02:20 PM
PFF_Neil Neil Hornsby
@
@Asleep Still not given up a sack but has been flagged 4 times; 2 x FS, Illegal use of hands & a PF
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

So I asked him:

Asleep
@
@PFF_Neil Joe Thomas has 6 FS, 1 Holding, & 3.50 sacks. Our question is how is that better than Duane Brown?
8 seconds ago Favorite Reply Delete

Makes me want to open a Twitter account @JamesHarrisonsCrackedOrbitalBone

Playoffs
12-28-2011, 08:33 PM
Asleep
@PFF_Neil Joe Thomas has 6 FS, 1 Holding, & 3.50 sacks. Our question is how is that better than Duane Brown?
8 seconds ago Favorite Reply DeletePFF_Neil Neil Hornsby
@Asleep Because sacks are just a subset of total pressure (about 20%) and therefore a very blunt instrument in determining ability.
10 hours ago
PFF_Neil Neil Hornsby
@Asleep you also need to understand when the pressure came; after 2 seconds or 4.5, not all sacks (or pressure) are created equal.
9 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Carr Bombed
12-28-2011, 08:52 PM
PFF_Neil Neil Hornsby
@Asleep Because sacks are just a subset of total pressure (about 20%) and therefore a very blunt instrument in determining ability.
10 hours ago
PFF_Neil Neil Hornsby
@Asleep you also need to understand when the pressure came; after 2 seconds or 4.5, not all sacks (or pressure) are created equal.
9 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

So basically he just said.."sorry, but I'm full of shit and I don't have a answer".


That is why I can't stand ANY of those sites.. They over analyze everything, you get crazy rankings, and at the end of the day most don't even make a lick of sense.

Sacks are what matters....sacks and pressures and Brown doesn't give up either very often.

Playoffs
12-29-2011, 11:18 AM
Pro Bowl: The Undeserving
December 28th, 2011 | Author: Khaled Elsayed

Each year the Pro Bowl roster comes out and each year I lose a few brain cells smacking my head against the table.

To be honest that is how stupid some of the picks are.

I really can’t put it any other way. Now I know the PFF staff and I have an advantage. We have a system designed to capture more than stats, and that can (in our opinions) compare players at the same positions. As a benefit to spending about 24 man hours (spread amongst three people) per game, you also actually watch a lot of football and really see what’s going on all over the field. Not just the ball.

It’s why we love giving out praise. Great players deserve recognition, so the Pro Bowl should be something to be celebrated. Instead, it’s a joke. Because if some of the players mentioned in this article can get selected then quite frankly the idea of a Pro Bowl at some positions, is worthless since it’s got nothing to do with what happens on the field, and everything to do with reputation, hearsay and how much someone is earning.

Here are the worst Pro Bowl selections of this year.

Logan Mankins, G, New England Patriots
PFF Rating: +0.4
PFF Conference Ranking: 16th
Analysis: If you watched Mankins play last year you saw a man with a chip on his shoulder. The Patriots weren’t paying him what he wanted and he was proving his worth to them with a string of stellar displays. Fast forward to this year and gone are those dominant displays. Instead we’re seeing a whole lot of ‘meh’, and a high number (seven) of penalties. It’s not that Mankins has been terrible, he just isn’t having a huge impact on the game like say what Andy Levitre has managed in his 11 starts at left guard.
Key Fact: Mankins has the 15th highest run blocking grade of all guards. And that’s his strong suit with pass blocking ranking leaving him in 42nd place.

Jake Long, LT, Miami Dolphins and D’Brickashaw Ferguson, LT, New York Jets
PFF Rating: +4.4 (Long) and +4.5 (Ferguson)
PFF Conference Ranking: 13th and 12th
Analysis: Along with Joe Thomas, Long and Ferguson have formed a trio of excellence at the top of the left tackle tree over the past four years. However, that doesn’t mean they deserve automatic selection to the Pro Bowl every year, especially when others are more deserving. Ignoring for a second the total discrimination against right tackles, Long (who started the season off looking less than 100%) and Ferguson, have been outplayed by guys like Duane Brown, Andrew Whitworth and Branden Albert. Decent years for both men but nowhere near their best, and nowhere near the best. Their reputation may grow with another Pro Bowl spot, but it’s at the expense of peers who have truly earned it this year.
Key Fact: While Long and Ferguson have given up a combined 13 sacks, Duane Brown hasn’t given up a single one.

Maurkice Pouncey, C, Pittsburgh Steelers
PFF Rating: +1.8
PFF Conference Ranking: 12th
Analysis: Steelers fans will be up in arms about this (as they always are) and accuse us of hating on the younger Pouncey. Nothing could be further from the case. It’s just when you compare Pouncey to his peers there’s absolutely no way any player with a sane mind could pick him over some of the excellent centers in the AFC. That doesn’t mean Pouncey is a bad player, but just because we’re told he should be a once in a generation player doesn’t make it so. You only need to watch him to see how little impact he has on games, while players like Chris Myers are creating the kind of consistent running lanes that sees your team finish with two guys close to or above the 1,000 yard rushing mark.
Key Fact: Pouncey isn’t even the best Pouncey in our eyes. His grade is inferior to that of his twin brother Mike Pouncey (+2.9).

Vince Wilfork, DT, New England Patriots
PFF Rating: +4.8
PFF Conference Ranking: 15th
Analysis: To be fair Wilforks’ rating is a bit misleading; he actually has a +8.0 for his run defense and that’s his main function. Even then he’s a mile off the run disruptor that either Sione Pouha or Brodrick Bunkley has been, and has made nowhere near the impact Geno Atkins has. Clearly he still has the ability to dominate, but whether it was the shift to a 4-3 or just a down year, Wilfork hasn’t played nearly as well as he did last year on one of the worst defenses in the league. It’s interesting, with the Patriots defense struggling so much this year then I’m hearing people lambast Wilfork, as they did Kyle Williams in 2011.
Key Fact: Has played more snaps than any other defensive tackle. Maybe spelling him will help – especially taking him out of pass rushing situations.

John Kuhn, FB, Green Bay Packers
PFF Rating: -1.4
PFF Conference Ranking: 6th
Analysis: I like John Kuhn. I like his chant, I like his running style, and I like what he brings to the Packers offense. You know what else I like? Blocking fullbacks. Guys who will regularly blow up a linebacker with their lead blocking. Kuhn, is a glorified situational running back, leading all fullbacks in carries and playing a third down back role at times. With Jim Kleinsasser lining up more from the fullback spot than ever before it would have been great, and deserved, for his 2011 play to be recognized.
Key Fact: Of all fullbacks Kuhn has the 16th highest run blocking grade.

Joe Staley, LT, San Francisco 49ers and Jermon Bushrod, LT, New Orleans Saints
PFF Rating: -1.0 (Staley) and +6.6 (Bushrod)
PFF Conference Ranking: 12th and 7th
Analysis: I hate writing about two players whose improvement has impressed me, but these are both nods to their teams winning so much more than their own individual performance. Bushrod has certainly got better, but he has benefited from a system that sees Drew Brees so adept at getting rid of the ball before the pressure gets to him, while Staley is an average at best pass protector. It goes back to this debate about right tackles being ignored, because the NFC has had some truly excellent displays at the RT spot. I’m looking chiefly at guys like Bryan Bulaga, Tyson Clabo and Tyron Smith who all warranted selection. This paragraph may be a little harsh on Staley and Bushrod, but they’re the victims of some stereotyping that right tackles are an inferior breed to their brethren on the left. It’s not as if they have to deal with the Jason Babins, Clay Matthews and Von Millers of this world right?
Key Fact: Bushrod isn’t even the highest rated tackle on his own team with Zack Strief earning a +9.8 rating.

Davin Joseph, G, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
PFF Rating: -5.9
PFF Conference Ranking: 20th
Analysis: As long as I live I’ll never quite understand why people feel the need to defend Davin Joseph. Here’s a guy who gets paid a lot of money to do a job, and not even do it that well. Now sure the change in schemes has resulted in better play, but, even with the massive improvement, he’s still a below average player, who loses far too many battles at the point of attack. This isn’t some theory I developed, but rather through seeing it with my own eyes. It’s all there on the tape – you just need to watch number 75 on each and every play (not just the good ones) and you’ll see what I’m saying. There have been times this year when he’s looked really good, especially against Chicago. For the most part what you get with Joseph is a subpar run blocking. It’s one of the reasons LeGarrette Blount isn’t picking up much yardage unless he breaks a few tackles. I can’t imagine what Josh Sitton and Evan Mathis are thinking that they can play so much better than a player and yet receive so little praise for it.
Key Fact: Joseph has a negative run blocking grade in 10 games this year.

B.J. Raji, NT, Green Bay Packers
PFF Rating: -15.6
PFF Conference Ranking: Last
Analysis: Raji started off the year hot but since then? Well he’s our lowest rated tackle in the NFC so that should tell you everything. He doesn’t get off blocks to make tackles, and rarely penetrates into the backfield with his play being bad enough to result in a reduction in playing time. Gone are those dominant displays and now you rarely notice that he’s on the field. That is what has become of Raji so his selection, more than any other, discredits the Pro Bowl. Sure Kevin Williams isn’t the player he once was, and sure Alan Branch doesn’t have a big reputation, but those guys are actually influencing games. Heck, we’ve criticized Ndamukong Suh before but at least he consistently generates pressure on the QB. Raji, in 2011, has done so little on so many snaps he shouldn’t even been in the conversation. A real fail on this front.
Key Fact: Has made 10 defensive stops all year. That’s less than a player like Isaac Sopoaga.

Lance Briggs, OLB, Chicago Bears
PFF Rating: +5.2
PFF Conference Ranking: 14th
Analysis: It’s nice to see a 4-3 OLB receiving a selection. It’s just a shame that it’s the wrong one. Briggs has played well enough this year, but has he set the world alight? Has he made the plays Sean Weatherspoon has, got pressure like Aldon Smith or Brian Orakpo, or been as consistent in every phase as Erin Henderson. Sorry Briggs lovers, but the answer is a big fat no to all of them. The Bears weakside linebacker is a good player no doubt, but being good and having a reputation shouldn’t equate to a free trip to Hawaii. Not when you’ve got plenty of players outperforming you.
Key Fact: His 11 missed tackles are 5th highest of all 4-3 OLBs.

Charles Woodson, CB, Green Bay Packers and Charles Tillman, CB, Chicago Bears
PFF Rating: -2.2 (Woodson) and +4.4 (Tillman)
PFF Conference Ranking: 18th and 8th
Analysis: Woodson is a lot of things to the Green Bay Packers, but he’s not even their top cover corner. He’s now just the kind of difference maker that can be a liability in coverage, as evidenced by the nine penalties given up along with the 566 yards. Tillman is up at the 841 yard mark on the season and while he’s had some great moments (notably the second encounter with Detroit) he hasn’t consistently dominated the opposition as many would have you believe. Instead guys like Brent Grimes and Chris Gamble have made plays and allowed less than 45% of balls thrown their way to be complete. There really isn’t a comparison.
Key Fact: Chris Gamble has allowed just 284 yards all year.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/12/28/pro-bowl-the-undeserving/

thunderkyss
12-29-2011, 11:38 AM
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]Pro Bowl: The Undeserving
December 28th, 2011 | Author: Khaled Elsayed

Each year the Pro Bowl roster comes out and each year I lose a few brain cells smacking my head against the table.

To be honest that is how stupid some of the picks are.



I find more humor in the guys that get upset about this than anything else.

It's like Wrasl'n.. the people who get mad as heck when you tell them it's fake.

Playoffs
12-29-2011, 11:46 AM
It's like Wrasl'n.. the people who get mad as heck when you tell them it's fake.Whaaat!!!? http://209.85.48.12/11763/142/emo/Chair.gif

drs23
12-29-2011, 08:07 PM
Figured this was the best place to pose this without starting a new thread. We know how the Pro Bowl selections are made. I could be wrong here but it seems the players covet the All Pro selection more so.

My question is how are the All Pro selections made? Who does it and how and when?

SW H-TOWN
12-29-2011, 08:29 PM
Figured this was the best place to pose this without starting a new thread. We know how the Pro Bowl selections are made. I could be wrong here but it seems the players covet the All Pro selection more so.

My question is how are the All Pro selections made? Who does it and how and when?

I suspect that it involves monkeys and a dart board :) They are selected by the fans, coaches, and players. Each of the three groups are weighted equally.

thunderkyss
12-29-2011, 08:37 PM
Per Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Pro)

The Associated Press NFL All-Pro Team is an annual selection of the best players in the National Football League (NFL) by position as selected by a national panel of media members of the Associated Press. Unlike selection to the Pro Bowl (all star game), votes are cast for outstanding players by position without consideration for whether the player competes in the American Football Conference (AFC) or National Football Conference (NFC). The Associated NFL All-Pro Team is the longest running selection awards program in existence

In summary, guys like John McClain & Jerome Solomon vote on the best players at each position.

TejasTom
12-29-2011, 09:42 PM
Per Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Pro)



In summary, guys like John McClain & Jerome Solomon vote on the best players at each position.

It's a 50 member panel.