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gary
12-25-2011, 01:57 PM
That is just all there is to it IMHO. What do you say?

redwhiteANDblue
12-25-2011, 02:01 PM
That's like saying gold is more valuable than a toliet bowl

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 02:08 PM
That's like saying gold is more valuable than a toilet bowl

Depending on what hairy situation you find yourself stuck in....a toilet bowl is more valuable than gold. :gun: A toilet bowl can be the most valuable thing on earth. :vincepalm:

ThaShark316
12-25-2011, 02:23 PM
Here's to hoping Arian Foster puts up 800 yards in 4 Jan./Feb. games...

Nah, we'd still have threads like this. Never mind.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 02:32 PM
Here's to hoping Arian Foster puts up 800 yards in 4 Jan./Feb. games...

Nah, we'd still have threads like this. Never mind.

So you think Kubiak is more valuable than Wade? There is nothing wrong with this thread, because it speaks the truth.

ThaShark316
12-25-2011, 02:39 PM
So you think Kubiak is more valuable than Wade? There is nothing wrong with this thread, because it speaks the truth.

I think they are both valuable, to be honest. http://static.bbmp3.com/smilies/fbj4fb.jpg.png

DBCooper
12-25-2011, 02:40 PM
I thought garys were supposed to stick together?

Alright, your hot chick privileges are being revoked.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 02:47 PM
I think they are both valuable, to be honest. http://static.bbmp3.com/smilies/fbj4fb.jpg.png

Head coaches who have a less than .500 career winning % are easily replaceable. Defensive coordinators who can take a historically bad defense and turn it into one of the top units in the league without even having a offseason are not.

ThaShark316
12-25-2011, 02:56 PM
Head coaches who have a less than .500 career winning % are easily replaceable. Defensive coordinators who can take a historically bad defense and turn it into one of the top units in the league without even having a offseason are not.

Helps when the GM went out and got 2 studs in free agency. Or was Wade Phillips in charge of that, too?

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 03:02 PM
Helps when the GM went out and got 2 studs in free agency. Or was Wade Phillips in charge of that, too?

Wade was in charge of the draft....that was his draft and he was the overseer on what type of players he wanted to play in his system so I'm pretty sure he had a big say on the matter. He wanted Aldon Smith (who's a absolute beast for SF) 1st and when he was gone he wanted J.J. Watt (who's another absolute beast) and while he was in Dallas he veiwed Glover Quin as a good safety prospect (not as a corner)....so the man knows defensive talent and where to stick players to give them the best opportunity for success.

ThaShark316
12-25-2011, 03:07 PM
Wade was in charge of the draft....that was his draft and he was the overseer on what type of players he wanted to play in his system so I'm pretty sure he had a big say on the matter. He wanted Aldon Smith (who's a absolute beast for SF) 1st and when he was gone he wanted J.J. Watt (who's another absolute beast) and while he was in Dallas he veiwed Glover Quin as a good safety prospect (not as a corner)....so the man knows defensive talent and where to stick players to give them the best opportunity for success.

Texans Talk fam...

When Bob McNair says his "thank yous" after we win the super bowl, he'll just say "I wanna thank Wade Phillips"...and the speech is over. :kitten:

redwhiteANDblue
12-25-2011, 03:07 PM
Depending on what hairy situation you find yourself stuck in....a toilet bowl is more valuable than gold. :gun: A toilet bowl can be the most valuable thing on earth. :vincepalm:

Well with gold you could buy 50 toliet bowls lol

Playoffs
12-25-2011, 03:10 PM
I disagree.

I think both Wade and Gary are top 5 defensive and offensive coaches, respectively.

Gary is no shout & holler head coach -- but neither were Chuck Noll or Tom Landry.

steelbtexan
12-25-2011, 03:16 PM
Facts are Facts

Gary has never won a meaningful game as a HC without Wade in his life.

5 seasons + 2 games and counting.

Did the Wade Smith signing last yr not count as a meaningful FA signing? Rackers?

Gary still sucks at his job after all these yrs. Think we could turn this into a song.

ThaShark316
12-25-2011, 03:18 PM
Phillips 6 yard pass to Phillips (Phillips PAT)

Phillips 20, Bengals 19. :brando:

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 03:36 PM
Phillips 6 yard pass to Phillips (Phillips PAT)

Phillips 20, Bengals 19. :brando:

That's cute...

If you want to bury your head in the sand and discredit the impact that Wade has had on this team, then by all means...proceed paddling that canoe on down Da Nile.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 03:37 PM
I disagree.

I think both Wade and Gary are top 5 defensive and offensive coaches, respectively.

Gary is no shout & holler head coach -- but neither were Chuck Noll or Tom Landry.

There's something else Gary Kubiak is not....... Chuck Noll or Tom Landry.

ThaShark316
12-25-2011, 03:38 PM
That's cute...

If you want to bury your head in the sand and discredit the impact that Wade has had on this team, then by all means...proceed paddling that canoe on down Da Nile.

Tell me where I discredited Wade. Don't worry, I'll wait. I say both coaches are valuable, and that, somehow = discrediting Wade.

Ahh, Texan fans...always going full Aggie on me.

Lucky
12-25-2011, 03:39 PM
Gary and Wade will be here for the foreseeable future. All is well, FKC and Sunshine.

steelbtexan
12-25-2011, 03:44 PM
Phillips 6 yard pass to Phillips (Phillips PAT)

Phillips 20, Bengals 19. :brando:

Again, that would be 0 meaningfull wins. That's a nice round number.

As a Head Coach (leader of an entire team, or atleast I thought that's what a HC's responsibilities were) Gary is terrible at his job. That's after 5 yrs and 2 games and counting.

Nice try to distort with the Phillips to Phillips thingy.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 03:44 PM
Tell me where I discredited Wade. Don't worry, I'll wait. I say both coaches are valuable, and that, somehow = discrediting Wade.

Ahh, Texan fans...always going full Aggie on me.

"Discredit" implies that you're trying to take credit away from him... Implying that he didn't have anything to do with the players we picked up is trying to take some credit away from him. Implying that Gary Kubiak has had just as much to do with our success this season when he hasn't is trying to take credit away from him. What am I missing here?

And no... I didn't go full "Kubiak" on you either :)

ThaShark316
12-25-2011, 03:46 PM
"Discredit" implies that you're trying to take credit away from him... Implying that he didn't have anything to do with the players we picked up is trying to take some credit away from him. Implying that Gary Kubiak has had just as much to do with our success this season is trying to take credit away from him. What am I missing here?

And no... I didn't go full "Kubiak" on you either :)

I said they were both valuable. How much or otherwise never came from my keyboard.

steelbtexan
12-25-2011, 03:47 PM
There's something else Gary Kubiak is not....... Chuck Noll or Tom Landry.

Metioning Gary in the same post as a HC on par with Landry/Noll = LMAO.

gary
12-25-2011, 03:53 PM
I would not want Wade as HC but Gary should be shown the door along with Rick.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 04:00 PM
I said they were both valuable. How much or otherwise never came from my keyboard.

So than what's your gripe with this thread, because technically Gary (the O.P. not the coach) never said Kubiak had no value....he simply said Wade was more valuable. Kubiak has some value, he just isn't close to being as valuable as Wade. He'd be on his way to his 7th straight non playoff season and would be out of a job without Wade Phillips. If we sign Kubiak to a extension he should give Wade half his money.

gary
12-25-2011, 04:24 PM
Take off the blinders and you'll see what I mean this is not the SAT.

TexansFanatic
12-25-2011, 05:14 PM
That is just all there is to it IMHO. What do you say?

Impossible to disagree.

Playoffs
12-25-2011, 05:35 PM
Metioning Gary in the same post as a HC on par with Landry/Noll = LMAO.
You sure about that ..... ?

Landry was 25-53-4 in his first 6 years,

Noll was 43-40-1 in his first 6 years,

Kubiak is 47-48 in his first 6 years.

ThaShark316
12-25-2011, 05:47 PM
So than what's your gripe with this thread, because technically Gary (the O.P. not the coach) never said Kubiak had no value....he simply said Wade was more valuable. Kubiak has some value, he just isn't close to being as valuable as Wade. He'd be on his way to his 7th straight non playoff season and would be out of a job without Wade Phillips. If we sign Kubiak to a extension he should give Wade half his money.

I think that WAS what he was implying. "Get rid of Kubiak/Smith" says that to me. But that's neither here nor there.

Sad that we'll have to hear this all off-season, even if ULTIMATE success is achieved.

Playoffs
12-25-2011, 05:49 PM
I thought garys were supposed to stick together?

Alright, your hot chick privileges are being revoked.
Not. Dude is a hot chick magnet.

steelbtexan
12-25-2011, 06:05 PM
You sure about that ..... ?

Landry was 25-53-4 in his first 6 years,

Noll was 43-40-1 in his first 6 years,

Kubiak is 47-48 in his first 6 years.

Different times

Different scheduling format

No FA

Most teams can be turned around in4 yrs. Yet here Gary is losing to a 1 win team on national TV 6 yrs later.

TexansFanatic
12-25-2011, 06:14 PM
You sure about that ..... ?

Landry was 25-53-4 in his first 6 years,

Noll was 43-40-1 in his first 6 years,

Kubiak is 47-48 in his first 6 years.


Different times

Different scheduling format

No FA

Most teams can be turned around in4 yrs. Yet here Gary is losing to a 1 win team on national TV 6 yrs later.

Exactly right.

And, by the way, Noll won his first Super Bowl in his sixth year.

gary
12-25-2011, 06:17 PM
What are you, a crowd follower?Would you be so kind to post a real opinion? Thank you so much.

Playoffs
12-25-2011, 06:59 PM
Different times

Different scheduling format

No FA

Most teams can be turned around in4 yrs. Yet here Gary is losing to a 1 win team on national TV 6 yrs later.Myopia.


Let's hire Jeff Fischer or Bill Belichick.

Fischer was 45-41 in his first six seasons,

Belichick was 41-55 in his first six seasons.

Texan_Bill
12-25-2011, 07:24 PM
That is just all there is to it IMHO. What do you say?

That's not all there is to my man! Ummm, Wade is good at defense. Gary is good at offense. Gary can't run a defense and Wade can't run an offense. This tag-team is the definition of what Co-Head coaches should be. Unfortunately, there has to be one guy that is named "head" coach, which would be Gary since Wade had a gig at the time the Texans fired Capers...

Buffi2
12-25-2011, 07:30 PM
Yes, I think Wade is more valuable than Kubiak. I also think Wade and Gary together make a great HC. As long as Wade returns next year, Gary is ok with me. Gary, until the last two weeks, has kept a team going who has lost 2 QBs and the only WR they have that can handle a long pass consistently. That can't be easy. This doesn't mean I think Gary by himself is the greatest, great or even halfway good as an HC. I think the combination of Gary and Wade could take us to the SB - if players and both coaches remain healthy.

When is Wade coming back?

Playoffs
12-25-2011, 08:04 PM
...I also think Wade and Gary together make a great HC.^Bingo.

TexansFanatic
12-25-2011, 08:13 PM
Myopia.


Let's hire Jeff Fischer or Bill Belichick.

Fischer was 45-41 in his first six seasons,

Belichick was 41-55 in his first six seasons.

Belichick's first gig in Cleveland was 5 years and that was before the current/modern era of free agency. Even so, he won his first playoff game after his fourth season.

He won the Super Bowl his second year with the Patriots (his seventh season all together). Turned them around and put rings on their fingers after two seasons.

And Jeff Fisher? Jeff Fisher sucks.

Texan_Bill
12-25-2011, 08:21 PM
You mean like you?

"That is just all there is to it"

worthless thread due to a worthless post.

Don't ever **** with my man Gary!!! EVER!!! I miss disagree with some of his posts... That said, NEVER suggest anything Gary does is "worthless"!!

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 08:24 PM
"Discredit" implies that you're trying to take credit away from him... Implying that he didn't have anything to do with the players we picked up is trying to take some credit away from him. Implying that Gary Kubiak has had just as much to do with our success this season when he hasn't is trying to take credit away from him. What am I missing here?

And no... I didn't go full "Kubiak" on you either :)

Chicago Bears

Jacksonville Jaguars

Cleveland Browns

gary
12-25-2011, 08:27 PM
You mean like you?

"That is just all there is to it"

worthless thread due to a worthless post.If Santa did not get you what you wanted then take it up with him not me. Other posters have provided the facts in this thread, so why repeat them? SMH.:vincepalm:

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 08:27 PM
I would not want Wade as HC but Gary should be shown the door along with Rick.

Gary & Rick?

Wow.

during our 7 game win streak, winning against all odds, I thought we had a very talented team. I thought we had a chance to win the Super Bowl.

We lose two games & now we want to run Gary & Rick out of town before we have an opportunity to lose our home play-off game?

Wow.... Freak'n Wow.

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 08:29 PM
Nevermind

TexansFanatic
12-25-2011, 08:36 PM
You mean like you?

"That is just all there is to it"

worthless thread due to a worthless post.

Merry Christmas, friend.

Hopefully this holiday season hasn't been so unkind to you that you can't show some respect to the other board members here.

If you disagree with the original post, perhaps you could explain why in measured terms, rather than simply attacking the poster.

gary
12-25-2011, 08:36 PM
Gary & Rick?

Wow.

during our 7 game win streak, winning against all odds, I thought we had a very talented team. I thought we had a chance to win the Super Bowl.

We lose two games & now we want to run Gary & Rick out of town before we have an opportunity to lose our home play-off game?

Wow.... Freak'n Wow.Overall I just do think they are good enough not just because of this year.

ObsiWan
12-25-2011, 08:41 PM
You sure about that ..... ?

Landry was 25-53-4 in his first 6 years,

Noll was 43-40-1 in his first 6 years,

Kubiak is 47-48 in his first 6 years.

Exactly right.

And, by the way, Noll won his first Super Bowl in his sixth year.

On the other hand, Tom Landry didn't accomplish a .500 season record until his sixth year.

TexansFanatic
12-25-2011, 08:42 PM
On the other hand, Tom Landry didn't accomplish a .500 season record until his sixth year.

But, again, he didn't have the advantage of free agency.

ObsiWan
12-25-2011, 08:53 PM
But, again, he didn't have the advantage of free agency.

that no free agency "point" is a red herring.

Back when Landry started out, as you and Steel correctly stated, there was no free agency.


But think about it; you could see no FA as a plus. Without the threat of free agency you could collect a group of solid players through the draft and not worry about them bouncing to another team in the FA mkt. And back then (1960-1967) the draft had 20 rounds.

Like both Landry and Knoll did, if you had decent scouts, you could collect a solid talent base for your team and depend on keeping it for the long haul. ...unless THEY (the HC and/or GM) decided to trade it away.

So that "no free agency" thing can be a help or a hinderance.... depends on how savvy your organization is.

TexansFanatic
12-25-2011, 09:15 PM
that no free agency "point" is a red herring.

Back when Landry started out, as you and Steel correctly stated, there was no free agency.


But think about it; you could see no FA as a plus. Without the threat of free agency you could collect a group of solid players through the draft and not worry about them bouncing to another team in the FA mkt. And back then (1960-1967) the draft had 20 rounds.

Like both Landry and Knoll did, if you had decent scouts, you could collect a solid talent base for your team and depend on keeping it for the long haul. ...unless THEY (the HC and/or GM) decided to trade it away.

So that "no free agency" thing can be a help or a hinderance.... depends on how savvy your organization is.

I wouldn't call it a red herring. It's a fact that you can turn an organization around more quickly now with free agency than you could simply building through the draft.

However, it is true that you could build a dynasty more easily by keeping the players you wanted to keep.

Chuck Noll was the beneficiary of some incredible drafts in the early '70s, including the 1974 draft which is commonly considered the best draft of all time for a single franchise and saw four future Hall of Famers taken by the Steelers: Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Jack Lambert, and Mike Webster.

So then the question becomes: how much influence did Landry have over the selections in the drafts engineered by Tex Schramm and Gil Brandt?

Playoffs
12-25-2011, 10:04 PM
that no free agency "point" is a red herring.Agree. Free agency is much more about GMs & owners -- we're talking about the head coach, here.

But here's the free agent "help" Kubiak has received:

2007: RB Ahman Green,LB Danny Clark,SS Michael Boulware,OT Jordan Black,DT Jeff Zgonina,LB Shawn Barber,QB Matt Schaub,CB Jamar Fletcher,WR André Davis

2008: RB Chris Brown, RB Marcel Shipp, WR Tim Carter, TE Ryan Krause, C Chris Myers, OLB Rosevelt Colvin, OLB Chaun Thompson, OLB Kevin Bentley, CB Jacques Reeves, CB Jimmy Williams, S Nick Ferguson.

2009: QB Rex Grossman, QB Dan Orlovsky, G Adrian Jones, DE Antonio Smith, DT Shaun Cody, OLB Cato June, OLB Khary Campbell, ILB Buster Davis, CB Cletis Gordon, CB Deltha O'Neal.

2010: G/C Wade Smith, OLB Danny Clark, K Neil Rackers.

We see how much high caliber free agents can help in 2011 -- playoffs.

Nitrofish
12-25-2011, 10:31 PM
The thing is life is about balance. And often times it takes the right chemistry to make a winner. To say that Phillips is MORE valuable than Kubiak is silly for a number of reasons, and I really do not understand what it has to do with anything anyway. Are you trying to setup a replace Kubiak with Phillips thread?

I have not been reading or posting here all season as I am a member on the official board, and even the Kubiak haters there were forced to tone down their rhetoric during the 7 game win streak. Probably the same thing happened here, but now that two games have been lost to inferior teams the rhetoric is ramping up again.

All of this even before the first playoff game has been played which seems to be a bit of the "Chicken Little" syndrome that most Schaub and Kubiak haters suffer from. Trying to be ahead of the curve. I think all of this talk is for off season after the chips have fallen, not just before a playoff run.

dream_team
12-25-2011, 10:38 PM
Wade is a defensive genius, Kubiak is an offensive genius... both are/were mediocre head coaches. No Wade, the defense struggles. No Kubiak, the offense will struggle. So is the OP simply saying defense is more important than offense?

steelbtexan
12-25-2011, 10:41 PM
The thing is life is about balance. And often times it takes the right chemistry to make a winner. To say that Phillips is MORE valuable than Kubiak is silly for a number of reasons, and I really do not understand what it has to do with anything anyway. Are you trying to setup a replace Kubiak with Phillips thread?

I have not been reading or posting here all season as I am a member on the official board, and even the Kubiak haters there were forced to tone down their rhetoric during the 7 game win streak. Probably the same thing happened here, but now that two games have been lost to inferior teams the rhetoric is ramping up again.

All of this even before the first playoff game has been played which seems to be a bit of the "Chicken Little" syndrome that most Schaub and Kubiak haters suffer from. Trying to be ahead of the curve. I think all of this talk is for off season after the chips have fallen, not just before a playoff run.

Not a Gary hater, he's just not a good NFL HC.

Regardless of the excuses Garys record (without Wade) is what it is.

ObsiWan
12-25-2011, 10:50 PM
Not a Gary hater, he's just not a good NFL HC.

Regardless of the excuses Garys record (without Wade) is what it is.


Kubiak's offense - Wade's defense = 2010 6-10 season
Wade's defense - Kubiak's offense = this year's Jaguars or Wade's 1-7 record with the Cowboys in 2010 (although, I admit that might not be totally fair; I really think Jason Garrett sabotaged Wade :tinfoil:)
Wade's defense + Kubiak's offense = First Division Championship.
This ain't broke. Please don't try and "fix it"
May McNair find a way to keep them both together.

Nitrofish
12-25-2011, 11:28 PM
Not a Gary hater, he's just not a good NFL HC.

Regardless of the excuses Garys record (without Wade) is what it is.
With all due respect, his record as an NFL HC is definitely better than your record as an NFL HC yes?

steelbtexan
12-25-2011, 11:39 PM
With all due respect, his record as an NFL HC is definitely better than your record as an NFL HC yes?

BS argument,

What does this have to do with me being a NFL HC.

I'm sure I'm better at my job than Gary is his. Otherwise in the real world I would be on food stamps.

Once again, I like Gary, just not as HC of my favorite team.

TexansFanatic
12-25-2011, 11:46 PM
With all due respect, his record as an NFL HC is definitely better than your record as an NFL HC yes?

Wah?

Jerry Glanville has won more NFL games than I ever will.

That must mean he's a Hall of Fame coach, right?

Nitrofish
12-25-2011, 11:48 PM
BS argument,

What does this have to do with me being a NFL HC.

I'm sure I'm better at my job than Gary is his. Otherwise in the real world I would be on food stamps.

Once again, I like Gary, just not as HC of my favorite team.
I think my point is that you and others who second guess Kubiak's decisions all think they would be better as the HC and that the opinions you express are right even though you have never coached an NFL game or even if Kubiak game planned the way SOME fans want him to that it would lead to a win.

In regards to your second comment, we are not talking about your job, but if we were and Kubiak said he knew better than you on what to do, guess what.. I would listen to you since you have the experience. You just made my point.

Are you really telling me that if the Texans had won the last two games it would have made any difference? No.. People would have just said we were supposed to beat them and look at their record. Funny how double standards work. If we win, it's a so what, if we lose it's a OMG!!!

These last games did not matter... We were going to be #3 seed no matter what and to start calling for Kubiak's head is funny. SMH

TexansFanatic
12-25-2011, 11:51 PM
I don't have to know how to build a bridge to be able to confirm a bridge is falling down just by looking at it.

Nitrofish
12-25-2011, 11:52 PM
Wah?

Jerry Glanville has won more NFL games than I ever will.

That must mean he's a Hall of Fame coach, right?
Wait so now you are trying to twist my words... I never said anything about a hall of fame coach. I said his record was better than the other guys... and guess what... Glanville will always be allot closer to the HOF than you will.

So if Glanville or another other NFL past or present coach talks football, I will listen to them over fans on a message board. I think many of the posters are full of themselves and need a reminder they are a fan, not a coach, not an expert... including me.

Stay on point... do not start drifting away from the topic.

Nitrofish
12-25-2011, 11:59 PM
I don't have to know how to build a bridge to be able to confirm a bridge is falling down just by looking at it.
So it is bridges now? Ok so answer me this.. Do City's tear down bridges after 6 years, or do they maintain them, repaint them, weld new pieces on, strengthen them, reinforce them?

If we go by your plan, we would tear down and build a new bridge every time a crack appears.

TexansFanatic
12-26-2011, 12:05 AM
So it is bridges now? Ok so answer me this.. Do City's tear down bridges after 6 years, or do they maintain them, repaint them, weld new pieces on, strengthen them, reinforce them?

If we go by your plan, we would tear down and build a new bridge every time a crack appears.

Man, this board really struggles with analogies.

In my original analogy about the bridge, Kubiak wold not be the actual bridge but the bridge builder.

In the analogy you're trying to concoct, Kubiak would still not be the bridge but he would be part of the bridge. Like, let's say, a critical truss or beam. If the beam is faulty, it should be replaced. No need to tear down the whole bridge.

Hookem Horns
12-26-2011, 12:07 AM
With all due respect, his record as an NFL HC is definitely better than your record as an NFL HC yes?

A better comparison would be Wade's record as a HC opposed to Kubiak's. Wade's all time record as HC is 82-59. Kubiak's is 47-48. Before the season started Kubiak's record was 37-43 (before he benefitted from Wade), some might look at that first.

Actually going back and looking at Wade's records season by season I think he has been a better HC than what I have been giving him credit for.

The Immaculate Deception (some others refer to as the Music City Miracle) really did him in. Had he won that game I think his reputation as a HC would be much different.

The year he went 13-3 and lost to the Giants in the Divisional round, Romo went full on Romo in that game. Also that Giants team went on to win the Super Bowl by beating the undefeated Patriots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade_Phillips

Playoffs
12-26-2011, 12:11 AM
I don't have to know how to build a bridge to be able to confirm a bridge is falling down just by looking at it.
Division winner, 3rd seed = falling down then?

Tell you what ... you take the Patriots without Brady/#2QB Hoyer/Welker/Andre Carter or the Steelers minus Big Ben/Batch/Wallace/Harrison or Polamalu or take the Ravens without Flacco/#2QB Taylor/Boldin/Suggs and lets see how good their records are.

I'll take what this franchise has done this year over ^^that every time.

Go fire someone else's head coach. This one's staying.

:logo:

TexansFanatic
12-26-2011, 12:11 AM
A better comparison would be Wade's record as a HC opposed to Kubiak's. Wade's all time record as HC is 82-59. Kubiak's is 47-48. Before the season started Kubiak's record was 37-43 (before he benefitted from Wade), some might look at that first.

Actually going back and looking at Wade's records season by season I think he has been a better HC than what I have been giving him credit for.

The Immaculate Deception (some others refer to as the Music City Miracle) really did him in. Had he won that game I think his reputation as a HC would be much different.

The year he went 13-3 and lost to the Giants in the Divisional round, Romo went full on Romo in that game. Also that Giants team went on to win the Super Bowl by beating the undefeated Patriots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade_Phillips

Great post.

I had forgotten that Wade was HC at Buffalo during that ridiculous charade with the forward lateral.

Full Romo.....lmao!

Nitrofish
12-26-2011, 12:17 AM
Man, this board really struggles with analogies.

In my original analogy about the bridge, Kubiak wold not be the actual bridge but the bridge builder.

In the analogy you're trying to concoct, Kubiak would still not be the bridge but he would be part of the bridge. Like, let's say, a critical truss or beam. If the beam is faulty, it should be replaced. No need to tear down the whole bridge.
Obviously you know less about bridges than you do football... How often is an entire beam replaced? Rarely.... a faulty beam would be reinforced (Wade) not replaced. The load on a bridge... wait. Why am I allowing you to drag me into this ridiculous argument?

No matter how you slice it Kubiak has more experience, and knows more about football than any of you fans who say he should do it your way. You can make any number of analogies you like to deflect the hard truth about what I am saying.

If there is an opening for a head coach in the NFL or an analyst on TV, Kubiak's name will be called... not your's.

TexansFanatic
12-26-2011, 12:17 AM
Division winner, 3rd seed = falling down then?

Relax.

It was just an analogy to make the point that I don't have to be an NFL head coach to know when an NFL head coach is failing.

I'm satisfied that the results of the 2011 campaign are about as good as they can be considering the state of the quarterback situation.

TexansFanatic
12-26-2011, 12:19 AM
Obviously you know less about bridges than you do football... How often is an entire beam replaced? Rarely.... a faulty beam would be reinforced (Wade) not replaced. The load on a bridge... wait. Why am I allowing you to drag me into this ridiculous argument?

Nobody's dragging you, believe me. And it is ridiculous.

My point stands: I don't have to be an NFL head coach to know how to count wins and losses.

Nitrofish
12-26-2011, 12:22 AM
Nobody's dragging you, believe me. And it is ridiculous.

My point stands: I don't have to be an NFL head coach to know how to count wins and losses.
If that is true than why are you having a problem with 10-5, division champs, 3rd seed?

TexansFanatic
12-26-2011, 12:23 AM
If that is true than why are you having a problem with 10-5, division champs, 3rd seed?

I'm not.

Hookem Horns
12-26-2011, 12:35 AM
No matter how you slice it Kubiak has more experience, and knows more about football than any of you fans who say he should do it your way. You can make any number of analogies you like to deflect the hard truth about what I am saying.

I am sure most posters here could take the Texans to 0 playoff appearances in their first 5 seasons without Wade as DC too.



If there is an opening for a head coach in the NFL or an analyst on TV, Kubiak's name will be called... not your's.

I HIGHLY doubt Kubiak gets hired as anyone's HC without going back to being someone's OC first. TV analyst? Well you have to watch all of the plays (even the crucial ones) to do that.

TexansFanatic
12-26-2011, 12:45 AM
TV analyst? Well you have to watch all of the plays (even the crucial ones) to do that.

I'm pretty sure you need a personality to do that, too.

(I'm being awfully mean to ol' Gary. I really do think he's a great guy.)

HJam72
12-26-2011, 08:21 AM
Yes, Wade is definitely more valuable as a DC than Kubiak is as a Head Coach.

More valuable as a HC than Kubiak? Probably.

More valuable as a HC with an unnamed OC compared to Kubiak with Wade as DC? I HIGHLY DOUBT IT.

Would Kubiak stay as OC if we made Wade the Head Coach? I dunno, but I doubt that too.

I don't want to give up on the combination of Wade AND Kubiak, regardless of their order. I think they are as good as it gets. If we had a starting QB--no offense to Yates--I think we'd be VERY happy with both of them.

rmartin65
12-26-2011, 08:25 AM
I love the "expert" argument. I guess since I am not a football coach, I cant critique football coaches. I guess in that same thread, I cant critique President Obama, because I have never been President. Hell, I cant critique any politician.

HJam72
12-26-2011, 08:31 AM
I love the "expert" argument. I guess since I am not a football coach, I cant critique football coaches. I guess in that same thread, I cant critique President Obama, because I have never been President. Hell, I cant critique any politician.

Well, I see you're 21. Have you run into the "you can't do this JOB until you've got experience doing it" argument? I call it the "F&^% Gen X forever" argument, or the "Gen X can have jobs when all the non-retiring (because they owe 15 gazillion on credit cards) Baby Boomers die" argument.

ObsiWan
12-26-2011, 12:02 PM
Yes, Wade is definitely more valuable as a DC than Kubiak is as a Head Coach.

More valuable as a HC than Kubiak? Probably.

More valuable as a HC with an unnamed OC compared to Kubiak with Wade as DC? I HIGHLY DOUBT IT.

Would Kubiak stay as OC if we made Wade the Head Coach? I dunno, but I doubt that too.

I don't want to give up on the combination of Wade AND Kubiak, regardless of their order. I think they are as good as it gets. If we had a starting QB--no offense to Yates--I think we'd be VERY happy with both of them.

Agreed...


It took this organization ten years to find a combination that works; i.e., led to a division championship/playoff berth. Ten damned, painful years.

And now we finally have a combination of coaches and players that is formidable.

In my mind, we have a two-headed head coach. McNair all but said as much back in January (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Quotes-McNair-on-coaching-changes-search-for-DC/7f2a79fa-f864-4ca2-801c-cf5d20a6cd76)...
(on how important it might be to get a defensive coordinator with head coaching experience) “I think that a person with that background brings a lot to the table, because your head coach is in a unique position, and to have someone on his staff who’s been in that same position and understands what he’s going through when he has some tough questions that he has to answer, it’s someone he can go to and sit down and discuss some of those issues and know that they have a common background. So I think it adds quite a bit.”

Also Uncle Bob seemed to be perfectly happy with our offense...
(on why he released the four defensive coaches and what criteria he’ll use in hiring their replacements) “When you look at our team and ask the question, ‘What is the problem here?’, it’s pretty clear. Our offense is the third-ranked offense in the league. We’ve got some offensive weapons that some other teams would love to have. If you take our quarterback Matt Schaubhttp://www.houstontexans.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster/matt-schaub/14c2cf5f-47e8-429e-896f-9970950d37b1/), our running back Arian Fosterhttp://www.houstontexans.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster/arian-foster/723e6c0c-f534-4b7e-a392-bb3bd6b17e3c/), our wide receiver Andre Johnsonhttp://www.houstontexans.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster/andre-johnson/7678fd27-7805-43d1-b038-76fc00bdfac7/), our tight ends Owen Danielshttp://www.houstontexans.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster/owen-daniels/ac7e8af5-8e36-4c55-b502-bd361afc2775/) and Joel Dreessenhttp://www.houstontexans.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster/joel-dreessen/87d453a8-1bd2-4b8b-b75e-8c19858ee263/), and throw (TE) James Caseyhttp://www.houstontexans.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster/james-casey/36149d75-49fa-43ef-ae0f-766885492bbd/) in there, you take those four positions, and what team in the league has got better players at those four positions? Not just picking one of them, but at all four of those positions, you’d be hard-pressed to find somebody that’s better equipped at those four positions. So we’ve got an awful lot of talent that’s still young, and the problem that we’ve had is that we haven’t been able to stop the other team. They’ve been scoring 28, 29 points a game (on) average. You just can’t do that and win in the NFL. So clearly, we weren’t getting the job done on defense. We just had to make a change, and we’re going to bring in an experienced, proven defensive coordinator that has had good, solid defenses throughout his career.”

All that to say, Uncle Bob has found a combo that he thinks works. And since that combo brought him (and the city of Houston) his (and it's) first double-digit win season and division championship in nearly a generation, he's keepin' both of 'em.

And I don't blame him.

Good luck trying to talk him into breaking up his newly found matched pair.

And <shudder> should Wade leave for yet another head coaching gig, I'll bet you all my lottery winnings (which total about $20 at the moment) that he goes after another fired head coach with a defensive background. I doubt we'll ever experiment with elevating a position coach to defensive coordinator again.

Too bad it took Uncle Bob ten years to figure this out. But, hey, better late than never.

steelbtexan
12-26-2011, 12:23 PM
[QUOTE=Nitrofish;1864477]I think my point is that you and others who second guess Kubiak's decisions all think they would be better as the HC and that the opinions you express are right even though you have never coached an NFL game or even if Kubiak game planned the way SOME fans want him to that it would lead to a win.

In regards to your second comment, we are not talking about your job, but if we were and Kubiak said he knew better than you on what to do, guess what.. I would listen to you since you have the experience. You just made my point.

Are you really telling me that if the Texans had won the last two games it would have made any difference? No.. People would have just said we were supposed to beat them and look at their record. Funny how double standards work. If we win, it's a so what, if we lose it's a OMG!!! {Quote:}

I'm not saying I would be a better HC than Gary. I'm saying Gary isn't a good HC. He's a slightly below average HC and his ecord bears this out. 6 yrs is a long enough sample size to come to this conclusion.

If the Texans would've won out they would've had atleast the #2 seed with the Ravens losing Chargers and a shot at the #1 seed.

This shows your lack of knowledge in playoff seedings. At this point there's nothing that I'm going to say to change your mind and I'm sure you will come up with another ridiculous comparison to somehow compare my NFL HC abilities to Garys as a way to defend his 47-48 record as a NFL HC. My record as a NFL HC is 0-0 which is better than Garys. See how ridiculous this argument is. Gary is a better HC than me. But the ? should be is Gary a SB winning HC. My answer after watching him be a HC for 6 yrs is no. Yours is yes. THE END

gary
12-26-2011, 01:13 PM
DanO beat the Texans so not having Schaub or Leinart is not an excuse to lose.

thunderkyss
12-26-2011, 01:28 PM
We've seen what happens to our defense when our offense can not stay on the field.

Wade Phillips gets us the ball, Kubiak keeps it & puts points on the board more often than not.

Take that away, & you're looking at the Chicago Bears right now, they needed a win last night, but the QB they picked up off the street, the guy who was coaching high-school football 3 weeks ago, couldn't do it, couldn't get it done... imagine that.

Take away our offense, you've got the Cleveland Browns & the Jacksonville Jaguars, two teams with good defenses that are among the worst teams in the NFL. They can't stay on the field, much less score, they cause turnovers & keep their defense on the field...

This is a team game. Until we win a 9-3 football game, you can't say our defense won a game for us. All year, the defense has done their part, but the offense has as well, except for the Carolina game & the Colts game.

You can add the Cincinnati game as well, if it wasn't for a late drive from the offense, the offense would have came up short... defense did it's thing, the offense needed that drive.

We come out against Carolina & the offense gave the ball up on 3 drives, two directly attributed to the QB.

We need to get back to Texans football. Running the ball, staying in the lead, taking care of the football, Playing damn good defense, but get off the field, more importantly, get their offense off the field.

You may not like it. I get it. But that's the game we've got to get back to & that's exactly what Gary Kubiak is getting us back to. It doesn't look pretty now, it may not look pretty next week. But if it don't get there by Jan 7, we won't win if we don't get it to where it's supposed to be.

SW H-TOWN
12-26-2011, 01:33 PM
If you had to pick one I really can't think of a valid argument as to why you would pick Kubiak over Wade. I know, because you could let Wade walk and Kubiak could pick the new D coordinator, genius.....

thunderkyss
12-26-2011, 01:45 PM
If you had to pick one I really can't think of a valid argument as to why you would pick Kubiak over Wade. I know, because you could let Wade walk Kubiak could pick the new D coordinator, genius.....

I can understand this.

gary
12-26-2011, 05:26 PM
I guess Gary should have forever but other teams will win in the mean time.

ObsiWan
12-26-2011, 08:03 PM
I guess Gary should have forever but other teams will win in the mean time.

It's not Kubiak alone that brought success. It's the combo of Wade and Kubiak. And if I could keep the combo together "forever" (or for at least another 4-5 years) I would.

Another key piece of the puzzle that's being totally ignored in this discussion is the gathering of the right personnel. Show me any team that you think turned around in one year, or even two, and I'll show you where they either already had a decent talent pool (the Steelers when Cowher took over) or had sucked so long they'd been drafting in the top ten for years (Detroit, San Francisco, Tom Landry's early Cowboys).

You cannot turn a sow's ear into a silk purse until you gather up a lotta damn silk.

ArlingtonTexan
12-26-2011, 09:37 PM
It's not Kubiak alone that brought success. It's the combo of Wade and Kubiak. And if I could keep the combo together "forever" (or for at least another 4-5 years) I would.

Another key piece of the puzzle that's being totally ignored in this discussion is the gathering of the right personnel. Show me any team that you think turned around in one year, or even two, and I'll show you where they either already had a decent talent pool (the Steelers when Cowher took over) or had sucked so long they'd been drafting in the top ten for years (Detroit, San Francisco, Tom Landry's early Cowboys).

You cannot turn a sow's ear into a silk purse until you gather up a lotta damn silk.

Good point. It is not like the Texans' defense is bottom feeding at any position...even w/o Mario

DL- 1st round pick, high dollar free agent and FA who was an original 2nd rounder

LB- 1 st rounder and 3 2nd rounders

CB- high $$ Fa (original 1st), Fa (original 1st) and 1st rounder

S - high $$ Fa and 4th rounder

Mr teX
12-26-2011, 09:53 PM
yeah lets see how valuable wade would be if he had to deal with the loss of say..jonathan Joseph for the season & then Allen right after that to where he would've been forced to start Jackson & MCCain at cb (can we say 2010 texans?)
...then say he had to deal with the loss of Cush for another 9 games... & Barwin for 2 early on in the season. Do you think he would've had our defense as good as it is now? likely not. would you still think wade was more valuable then? Probably not.

some of you guys just have no perspective and it only proves what i said months ago.... even if the guy managed to have success, some would still be in here pumping their agenda at the 1st sign of trouble.

GNTLEWOLF
12-26-2011, 10:58 PM
What i'm wondering is..."Is the City of houston going to have a Superbowl style parade if the Texans lose their first play-off game?"

Mr teX
12-26-2011, 11:07 PM
DanO beat the Texans so not having Schaub or Leinart is not an excuse to lose.

WTF does that matter? the colts likely were a trainwreck this year regardless of who was under center. Us with Schaub= averaging damn near 30 ppg. without him we're barely cracking 20. that 10pts matters.
besides, it not just that we've lost. How about the missing veteran leadership...you cant just look at things individually when talking about TEAM SUCCESS.

SW H-TOWN
12-26-2011, 11:48 PM
I really really like the Kubiak Wade combination. Kubiak is really good with the offense and Wade is really good with the D. As for the comparisons of how each one has dealt with injuries. I would just start the comparison by omitting the quarterback position. It would be unfair to Kubiak because quarterback is by far and away the most important position in football. Lets go, Kubiak lost Dre and Wade lost Mario. Kubiak lost Foster for I think 4 games so Wade tries to even things out by playing #25 half of the time. Kubiak lost Brissel for some games and Wade lost Manning for several games too. I think they have both done a good job dealing with injuries. So why would I pick Wade over Kubiak if I could only pick ONE? To keep it short Wade transformed the ENTIRE DEFENSE from horrible to very very good in one shortened offseason. How long did it take Kubiak to get the run game on track? No axe to grind, just my personal opinion.

Nitrofish
12-27-2011, 12:55 AM
I am sure most posters here could take the Texans to 0 playoff appearances in their first 5 seasons without Wade as DC too.



I HIGHLY doubt Kubiak gets hired as anyone's HC without going back to being someone's OC first. TV analyst? Well you have to watch all of the plays (even the crucial ones) to do that.

True, but so could having a reindeer running the team so that seems like a pretty lame argument.

Yes you highly doubt that because you dislike Kubiak. Heck the Patriots liked Haynesworth enough to trade for him, then disliked him and dropped him... many people said he was done, and would never play another down. Guess what... another team picked him up.

The problem here is that you think everyone sees things the way you do, that your opinions are the norm among NFL franchises. I think that is a bit conceited in my view.

thunderkyss
12-27-2011, 01:28 AM
True, but so could having a reindeer running the team so that seems like a pretty lame argument.

Yes you highly doubt that because you dislike Kubiak. Heck the Patriots liked Haynesworth enough to trade for him, then disliked him and dropped him... many people said he was done, and would never play another down. Guess what... another team picked him up.

The problem here is that you think everyone sees things the way you do, that your opinions are the norm among NFL franchises. I think that is a bit conceded in my view.

conceited maybe?

Personally, I think you're in a losing argument with some folks. They'll continue to move the bar. First they weren't happy because we had losing season for the first four years of our existence. Regardless what they say, they blame Kubiak. You cab tell by all the "Ten Years" comments.

In year two, we go 8-8. Big deal, should havE been 8-8 the year before. The Lions went 8-8 last year & they're the next best thing to sliced bread.

So we finally get a winning season. So what, we didn't get to the play-offs. Now we're Division champs, so what, we'll probably be one & done.

If we win the Super Bowl, you'll get the blind pig analogy, and odds that he won't repeat.

TexansFanatic
12-27-2011, 01:37 AM
conceited maybe?

It's time to concede you're conceited.

It's your conceit that keeps you from conceding.

:shades:

steelbtexan
12-27-2011, 01:43 AM
True, but so could having a reindeer running the team so that seems like a pretty lame argument.

Yes you highly doubt that because you dislike Kubiak. Heck the Patriots liked Haynesworth enough to trade for him, then disliked him and dropped him... many people said he was done, and would never play another down. Guess what... another team picked him up.

The problem here is that you think everyone sees things the way you do, that your opinions are the norm among NFL franchises. I think that is a bit conceded in my view.

I like Gary as a man. But his record says he's an average HC at best. I could care less if everybody sees things the way I do. What I do want is a SB winning HC and I seriously doubt Gary is that guy.

Want to know why I feel this way? 5yrs of medicore football at best and Gary reverting back to his old conservative ways means things probably wont go well in the p[ayoffs this yr.

Gary couldn't even beat a 1 win Colts team without Wade. So just keep your blinders on. What would it take for you to admit Gary isn't a good HC? Notice I didn't say OC. He should be responsible for the whole team being that he's the HC.

But you must have a different definition as to what a HC is. Answer me this what is a HC's responsibilities? My answer is to win games and ultimately a SB

What's yours?

thunderkyss
12-27-2011, 01:54 AM
I like Gary as a man. But his record says he's an average HC at best. I could care less if everybody sees things the way I do. What I do want is a SB winning HC and I seriously doubt Gary is that guy.

Want to know why I feel this way? 5yrs of medicore football at best and Gary reverting back to his old conservative ways means things probably wont go well in the p[ayoffs this yr.

Gary couldn't even beat a 1 win Colts team without Wade. So just keep your blinders on. What would it take for you to admit Gary isn't a good HC? Notice I didn't say OC. He should be responsible for the whole team being that he's the HC.

But you must have a different definition as to what a HC is. Answer me this what is a HC's responsibilities? My answer is to win games and ultimately a SB

What's yours?


I think we have a different definition of mediocre football. 8-8 may be a mediocre record, but I've seen some of the best football being played by the Texans since Kubiak got here.

Championship stuff? Maybe not, but definitely not mediocre.

I really think the thing that has been holding this team back, is that Gary has been more than just a head coach around here. He's rebuilt this organization from top to bottom & I bet if he ever stops coaching the Texans, he'll be awarded some F.O. Position.

I didnt think he was ready for that when he got here, but that is what the Texans needed & I don't think he's done too shabby of a job.

As a head coach, he's still got a lot to work on, I admit that & always have. But I think some ignore what all Gary means to the organization.

TexansFanatic
12-27-2011, 02:00 AM
Personally, I think you're in a losing argument with some folks. They'll continue to move the bar.

I'll admit to moving the bar.

The bar in 2006 was anything better than 2 wins.

In 2006, we got 6 wins.

Fantastic! That's a 4 game improvement. We can build on that.

I'm raising the bar here.

In 2007, we got 8 wins.

That's acceptable. I was hoping for a winning season, but 2 games is definitely an improvement. We can build on that.

I'm raising the bar here.

In 2008, we got 8 wins.

Hmmmm..... Well, it's not a step back, so we'll call it a mulligan. We can build on that.

I guess I'm keeping the bar where it was now.

In 2009, we got 9 wins.

Well, it's definitely a step forward, but I would have thought that in the 4th year we'd have broken through and gone to the playoffs. But....... We can build on that.

I'm raising the bar here.

In 2010, we got 6 wins.

Am I still raising the bar here in expecting more than six wins after the fifth season?

In 2011, with Wade Phillips, a cheesecake schedule and Peyton Manning in a wheelchair, we have 10 wins and our first division championship.

But we just lost to the worst team in the league, so there is nobody realistically expecting anything in the playoffs.

Is this raising the bar?

Nobody has raised the bar to unrealistic expectations.

In 2011 we're finally getting what we should have gotten in 2007 or 2008 or 2009 or 2010.

Nitrofish
12-27-2011, 02:10 AM
If the Texans would've won out they would've had at least the #2 seed with the Ravens losing Chargers and a shot at the #1 seed.

This shows your lack of knowledge in playoff seedings.


Hmmmmm..... Let's see if you are right. How many times has a #1 or #2 seed won the Super Bowl in the last 10 years?

I will do all you doubters the favor of having to look it up and list the last 10 SB winners and their playoff seeding.

2010-11 (XLV)
Packers (#6 NFC Seed) **SB Winner
Steelers (#2 AFC Seed)

2009-10 (XLIV)
Colts (#1 AFC Seed)
Saints (#1 NFC Seed) **SB WInner

2008-09 (XLIII)
Steelers (#2 Seed) **SB Winner
Cardinals (#4 Seed)

2007-08 (XLII)
Patriots (#1 AFC Seed)
Giants (#5 NFC Seed) **SB Winner

2006-07 (XLI)
Colts (#3 AFC Seed) **SB Winner
Bears (#1 NFC Seed)

2005-06 (XL)
Seattle (#1 NFC Seed)
Steelers (#6 AFC Team) **SB Winner

2004-05 (XXXIX)
Patriots (#2 AFC Seed) **SB Winner
Eagles (#1 NFC Seed)

2003-04 (XXXVIII)
Panthers (#3 NFC Seed)
Patriots (#1 AFC Seed) **SB Winner

2002 (XXXVII)
Raiders (#1 AFC Seed)
Buccaneers (#2 NFC Seed) **SB Winner

2001 (XXXVI)
Rams (#1 NFC Seed)
Patriots (#1 AFC Seed) **SB Winner

2000 (XXXV)
Ravens (#4 AFC Seed) **SB Winner
Giants (#1 NFC Seed)

Looking at those results I would say it is you who does not understand seeding and what it means to winning the Super Bowl.

Not saying it would not have been nice to be #1 or #2... Just saying it does not hold as much weight as you think it does. That is why they call the playoffs a whole new season. If you make it in.. you have just as much of a chance as anyone else.

thunderkyss
12-27-2011, 02:13 AM
I'll admit to moving the bar.
.

The problem isn't in raising the bar itself, it when it is being raised. Before the season started, many here expressed how the would be satisfied with a play-off appearance. When it looked like we were a shoe in, it moved to a play-off win. If we're leading at halftime, I bet half them jokers will raise the bar to a super bowl victory.

TexansFanatic
12-27-2011, 02:17 AM
The problem isn't in raising the bar itself, it when it is being raised. Before the season started, many here expressed how the would be satisfied with a play-off appearance. When it looked like we were a shoe in, it moved to a play-off win. If we're leading at halftime, I bet half them jokers will raise the bar to a super bowl victory.

The more you achieve, the more is expected of you.

One of the hazards of success.

Two solutions:

(1) achieve less

(2) achieve more

thunderkyss
12-27-2011, 02:25 AM
Hmmmmm..... Let's see if you are right. How many times has a #1 or #2 seed won the Super Bowl in the last 10 years?


Not saying it would not have been nice to be #1 or #2... Just saying it does not hold as much weight as you think it does. That is why they call the playoffs a whole new season. If you make it in.. you have just as much of a chance as anyone else.

I don't know how any one can say, "we should have won out" we're not playing very good football right now & are lucky we won 2 of the last four. We need to get healthy, and we needed to go back to camp & learn how to play all over again.

& it's not just Tj, Our running backs keeps fumbling the ball, special teams have disappeared, & we probably lead the league in penalties over the last four or five weeks.

We'll go deep in the play-offs playing our system, leaning heavily on Arian & the defense. But we've got a lot of little things that need to be fixed.

GNTLEWOLF
12-27-2011, 02:32 AM
The problem isn't in raising the bar itself, it when it is being raised. Before the season started, many here expressed how the would be satisfied with a play-off appearance. When it looked like we were a shoe in, it moved to a play-off win. If we're leading at halftime, I bet half them jokers will raise the bar to a super bowl victory.

Yeah, Well I wasn't one of them....My definition for a satisfying season wasn't that we just showed up to the play-offs and were one and done. I also recall that there were several others who said this was unacceptable to them as well. My definition of success didn't include a single season showin either. It included several years of going with a better than 50/50 record of going deep in the play-offs and winning a few SB's. So no...nothing done this year alone is going to satisfy me, but going deep in the play-offs would be a start.
I said in another post that I haven't commented this year because I was enjoying the run. I have felt no need to be negative. But this thread asks what we really believe, that if Wade is more valuable than Gary, and I along with several others think he is. I hope we win, but I just don't think we have either the horses to pull the wagon, nor the driver who can give what horses we do have the proper instructions to maximize their pull. That is my opinion about Kubiak.

thunderkyss
12-27-2011, 02:37 AM
The more you achieve, the more is expected of you.

One of the hazards of success.

Two solutions:

(1) achieve less

(2) achieve more

Again, there is nothing wrong with raising he bar. I never said that. It's raising the bar to make Gary look like a failure.

"Oh, you took a team that has never had a winning season to 8-8 in two years? Nice, but they should have been 10-6"

"Oh, you went 9-7 two years later for your first winning season ever? Big deal, you should have improved your team to 9-7 from 9-7 like Rex did to get his team into the play-offs after inheriting a top 10 defense & rushing attack."

"Oh, you finally won your division after 6 years? Well, you should have finished 13-3"

Heck, people are already wanting to fire him for losing our first play-off game & the season isn't done yet. This from the people who (16 weeks ago) said they would be happy if we make the play-offs as a Wild-Card.

Nitrofish
12-27-2011, 02:57 AM
Again, there is nothing wrong with raising he bar. I never said that. It's raising the bar to make Gary look like a failure.

"Oh, you took a team that has never had a winning season to 8-8 in two years? Nice, but they should have been 10-6"

"Oh, you went 9-7 two years later for your first winning season ever? Big deal, you should have improved your team to 9-7 from 9-7 like Rex did to get his team into the play-offs after inheriting a top 10 defense & rushing attack."

"Oh, you finally won your division after 6 years? Well, you should have finished 13-3"

Heck, people are already wanting to fire him for losing our first play-off game & the season isn't done yet. This from the people who (16 weeks ago) said they would be happy if we make the play-offs as a Wild-Card.

Below is a perfect example of what you are talking about. No question no matter what they do someone is always raising the bar when it suits them.


In 2011, with Wade Phillips, a cheesecake schedule and Peyton Manning in a wheelchair, we have 10 wins and our first division championship.

But we just lost to the worst team in the league, so there is nobody realistically expecting anything in the playoffs.

Is this raising the bar?

Nobody has raised the bar to unrealistic expectations.

In 2011 we're finally getting what we should have gotten in 2007 or 2008 or 2009 or 2010.

steelbtexan
12-27-2011, 08:50 AM
Below is a perfect example of what you are talking about. No question no matter what they do someone is always raising the bar when it suits them.

Ummm, no

I've always set the bar high. In fact I started calling for Garys firing after the 2009 9-7 season against a cream puff schedule that was championed as some sort of breakthrough season.

Without Manning the Texans should've made the playoffs this yr with or without Wade. Although if the past 2 games are any evidence they probably wouldn't have made them.

See the difference between guys like guys like us are, I'm a win at all cost guy and you aren't. Making the playoffs and having a great game day experience is enough for some. For some it's not.

There's nothing wrong with either way of thinking. Mediocrity is fine for some and I didn't reset the bar. Or expect the Texans to win a SB this yr even with Schaub.

What I do expect is for Gary to run an offense that doesn't resemble a bad high school offense even with Yates at QB. I really thought Gary had made progress this yr. But without Wade the Gary led Texans appear to be SOS. Leopards cant seem to change their stripes. It probably will always be this way under Gary. (Conservative to a fault)

Oh well it looks like atleast three more yrs of conservative football. I can wait Gary out (Health and the good lord willing) because there will surely be more fail in Garys future if Wade gets a HC gig, which will probably happen sometime in the next 3 yrs.

Even you have to admit that after almost 6 yrs Gary isn't very good at his job as HC (Not OC) of the Texans. Either that or you've been blinded by blatant homerism.

badboy
12-27-2011, 11:41 AM
I think most of our starters (some of them 3rd stringers) are banged up and wore out. Many are playing on emotion and even that can wear thin. This is when mistakes and "stupid" plays become glaring to the fans. I have caught criticism for saying sports is not always about the win but how we play. Even with Wade in the booth, I expect to be 10 point underdogs Sunday. If we lose or if we win against Titans, I predict a playoff win.

Texecutioner
12-27-2011, 11:51 AM
It's not even an argument over who is more valuable as a coach. This season's dramatic turn around from a defense being the worst in the league to being the best in the league is something that Kubiak couldn't even dream of doing with an offense. The Texans have never been the best offense in the league and it took like 3 to 4 years just to be amongst the best scoring wise. Wade did it in one off season where there was a lockout and when this team had way less time to learn the new system with a ton of new players that had to gel together and get acclimated with one another on top of that.

ANd besides as a HC, Wade's easily been better than Kubiak. He just had 2 winning seasons out of 4 with Dallas and had the best record in the NFC in one of those seasons.

It took WADE COMING HERE FOR THE TEXANS TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS AND FINALLY CROSS OVER THAT HUMP.

So to the posters that are literally trying to argue against this are just in la la land. Wade's value is easily greater than Kubiak's by far and it's not even close.

Texecutioner
12-27-2011, 11:54 AM
Below is a perfect example of what you are talking about. No question no matter what they do someone is always raising the bar when it suits them.

I don't think you have any idea what people would be saying or doing around this site as far as discussion goes. You've been in here for what 3 weeks now if that?? Certain aspects of this team are being evaluated and criticized by some, and you're just not liking the fact that it's happening and you're lowering the bar when it "suits you."

gary
12-27-2011, 12:11 PM
The Kool Aid must taste absolutley delicious to some of you.

Playoffs
12-27-2011, 12:18 PM
Oh, c'mon now. Let's not confuse the issue with facts! :hide:

So, what you're saying here is a #3 Seed or lower has a 64% chance of playing in and a 45% chance of winning the Super Bowl???


2010-11 (XLV)
Packers (#6 NFC Seed) **SB Winner
Steelers (#2 AFC Seed)

2009-10 (XLIV)
Colts (#1 AFC Seed)
Saints (#1 NFC Seed) **SB WInner

2008-09 (XLIII)
Steelers (#2 Seed) **SB Winner
Cardinals (#4 Seed)

2007-08 (XLII)
Patriots (#1 AFC Seed)
Giants (#5 NFC Seed) **SB Winner

2006-07 (XLI)
Colts (#3 AFC Seed) **SB Winner
Bears (#1 NFC Seed)

2005-06 (XL)
Seattle (#1 NFC Seed)
Steelers (#6 AFC Team) **SB Winner

2004-05 (XXXIX)
Patriots (#2 AFC Seed) **SB Winner
Eagles (#1 NFC Seed)

2003-04 (XXXVIII)
Panthers (#3 NFC Seed)
Patriots (#1 AFC Seed) **SB Winner

2002 (XXXVII)
Raiders (#1 AFC Seed)
Buccaneers (#2 NFC Seed) **SB Winner

2001 (XXXVI)
Rams (#1 NFC Seed)
Patriots (#1 AFC Seed) **SB Winner

2000 (XXXV)
Ravens (#4 AFC Seed) **SB Winner
Giants (#1 NFC Seed)

TexansFanatic
12-27-2011, 12:18 PM
Below is a perfect example of what you are talking about. No question no matter what they do someone is always raising the bar when it suits them.

I don't think you have any idea what people would be saying or doing around this site as far as discussion goes. You've been in here for what 3 weeks now if that?? Certain aspects of this team are being evaluated and criticized by some, and you're just not liking the fact that it's happening and you're lowering the bar when it "suits you."

http://www.lustyghost.com/images/booyakasha.jpg

Nitrofish
12-27-2011, 12:27 PM
Ummm, no

I've always set the bar high. In fact I started calling for Garys firing after the 2009 9-7 season against a cream puff schedule that was championed as some sort of breakthrough season.

Without Manning the Texans should've made the playoffs this yr with or without Wade. Although if the past 2 games are any evidence they probably wouldn't have made them.

See the difference between guys like guys like us are, I'm a win at all cost guy and you aren't. Making the playoffs and having a great game day experience is enough for some. For some it's not.

There's nothing wrong with either way of thinking. Mediocrity is fine for some and I didn't reset the bar. Or expect the Texans to win a SB this yr even with Schaub.

What I do expect is for Gary to run an offense that doesn't resemble a bad high school offense even with Yates at QB. I really thought Gary had made progress this yr. But without Wade the Gary led Texans appear to be SOS. Leopards cant seem to change their stripes. It probably will always be this way under Gary. (Conservative to a fault)

Oh well it looks like atleast three more yrs of conservative football. I can wait Gary out (Health and the good lord willing) because there will surely be more fail in Garys future if Wade gets a HC gig, which will probably happen sometime in the next 3 yrs.

Even you have to admit that after almost 6 yrs Gary isn't very good at his job as HC (Not OC) of the Texans. Either that or you've been blinded by blatant homerism.

I think saying the Texans look like a bad HS football team destroys your credibility and does little to further your agenda to influence others into feeling like you do.

I wonder though if you feel the Texans players and front office echo your sentiments, or if it is only you and like minded fans who feel that way? Obviously current team members might not say anything to keep their jobs, but I do not recall released players moaning about the same things the
"Fire Kubiak" crowd do.

I am sure that by now a disgruntled player would have said something... When Mason was on "No Huddle" he had nothing but nice things to say about the Texans. Did not complain that Kubiak was too conservative. Said they would be fine with TJ. I don't think Mason is trying to keep from burning bridges either since he will likely not play again in the NFL.

It's just my opinion that the "Fire Kubiak" crowd are the minority, and that if the players had no confidence in him, or thought he was too conservative he surely would already be gone by now.

Nitrofish
12-27-2011, 12:46 PM
I don't think you have any idea what people would be saying or doing around this site as far as discussion goes. You've been in here for what 3 weeks now if that?? Certain aspects of this team are being evaluated and criticized by some, and you're just not liking the fact that it's happening and you're lowering the bar when it "suits you."

Well that just shows how short sighted you are. Just because my join date says I am new does not mean I am new. Just means I recently joined as a member. On top of that I can read messages without being a member, and I can surely read what others have posted so I think think you trying to say I could not possibly know anything shows your ignorance with all due respect.

Show one post where I lowered the bar? I thought you said I have not been here long enough to know what is going on so how could you have seen me lower the bar?

Certain aspects are NOT being evaluated.. What is happening is that now the Texans have lost two games to inferior teams the "Fire Kubiak" crowd is ramping back up their rhetoric and are not even going to wait for the season to end. They have already spouted off that the Texans are 1 and done, so do not try to say it is simple evaluation. This "Fire Kubiak" obsession has been going on for years now and borders on a sport.

The "Fire Kubiak" contingent has had all of their hatred bottled up over a 7 game win streak and now that a few games have been dropped they feel justified in starting up again instead of getting behind the team and waiting until the results are in, or the season is over to make an "Evaluation"

Nitrofish
12-27-2011, 01:00 PM
Oh, c'mon now. Let's not confuse the issue with facts! :hide:

So, what you're saying here is a #3 Seed or lower has a 64% chance of playing in and a 45% chance of winning the Super Bowl???

LOL, yeah sorry about that bro... But I am sure there is some kind of mathematical formula that needs to be applied first since Kubiak is our coach to the get the actual statistical chances.

Funny how their memory is so short they cannot even remember that the #6 seed won it last year. And yeah before you guys start ranting.. I am aware we are not the Packers and our HC is not Mike McCarthy, our QB is not Rodgers, blaa, blaa, blaa.

gary
12-27-2011, 03:53 PM
Keep on sipping that drink.

Double Barrel
12-27-2011, 04:50 PM
Helps when the GM went out and got 2 studs in free agency. Or was Wade Phillips in charge of that, too?

Danieal Manning was quoted in the last two weeks that he specifically wanted to play in Houston after Wade was hired as DC.

This draft and FA has Wade's fingerprints all over it. The GM's job is to acquire the talent that the coaches evaluate, not sign guys and force them to fit in a coach's system.


These last games did not matter... We were going to be #3 seed no matter what

Regardless of your rather weak straw man argument to distract from your original point (above), what you said was incorrect.

The last two games did matter in playoff positioning.

It is a completely different subject about the significance of playoff positions and homefield advantage based on recent NFL history, but that was not the point that you made.

It's not Kubiak alone that brought success. It's the combo of Wade and Kubiak. And if I could keep the combo together "forever" (or for at least another 4-5 years) I would.

Another key piece of the puzzle that's being totally ignored in this discussion is the gathering of the right personnel. Show me any team that you think turned around in one year, or even two, and I'll show you where they either already had a decent talent pool (the Steelers when Cowher took over) or had sucked so long they'd been drafting in the top ten for years (Detroit, San Francisco, Tom Landry's early Cowboys).

You cannot turn a sow's ear into a silk purse until you gather up a lotta damn silk.

Some coaches are good at acquiring talent. Other coaches excel at doing something meaningful with that talent. The great ones are good at both aspects.

So far, Kubiak has shown to be a good OC and offensive talent evaluator. As a HC, his history has clearly been mediocre, and by the grace of Wade, above average this season.

As far as the Landry angle, I think comparing modern head coaches to pre-Super Bowl coaches is misguided and ultimately intellectually vacant. It's a different league today.

Plus, Landry was a football genius. Let's just leave him up high where he belongs and keep him out of the comparisons with mere mortals like Gary Kubiak.

The "Fire Kubiak" contingent has had all of their hatred bottled up over a 7 game win streak and now that a few games have been dropped they feel justified in starting up again instead of getting behind the team and waiting until the results are in, or the season is over to make an "Evaluation"

It is silly to act like someone is not a Texans fan if they dislike the head coach. I guess you've got the biggest pom pom of them all?

Fans can root for the team with all their hearts while their heads continue to analyze various aspects of the franchise. Not everyone lives in a black and white world.

imatexan
12-27-2011, 04:54 PM
A thread going 6+ pages where all of the content is in the title?

:vincepalm:

I don't know if this is a good or bad thing lol.

Texecutioner
12-27-2011, 05:23 PM
Well that just shows how short sighted you are. Just because my join date says I am new does not mean I am new. Just means I recently joined as a member. On top of that I can read messages without being a member, and I can surely read what others have posted so I think think you trying to say I could not possibly know anything shows your ignorance with all due respect.

As I stated in a PM, you are new here and I highly doubt that you know what all these posters have been saying for years and what they would say or do. It's always annoying when new members show up in here and start talking down to others as if they're the "ultimate fan" when no one has any clue of their track record of any sort.

Show one post where I lowered the bar? I thought you said I have not been here long enough to know what is going on so how could you have seen me lower the bar?

That was an example to show you how inaccurate your statement was about others that you don't know and how they're trying to raise the bar. They weren't raising the bar by expecting the Texans to beat the Colts who were lead by Dan Orvlosky.

Certain aspects are NOT being evaluated.. What is happening is that now the Texans have lost two games to inferior teams the "Fire Kubiak" crowd is ramping back up their rhetoric and are not even going to wait for the season to end.

YOu want to show me where someone suggested that Kubiak needs to be fired after this game?? I don't know anyone on this site that expects Kubiak to be fired after this season. Just about everyone expects him to be back either way. But if you're surprised that folks would question how he coached in two losses against the Colts and the Panthers who are two of the worst teams in football when we're headed into the playoffs, then you're not living in a world of reality here. Fans of every team in the league would be unhappy to lose to the Colts right now especially when they're wanting to approach the post season with momentum. Folks have seen 5 years of failure out of Kubiak and finally this year we saw something different with this team when Wade became the DC and turned the first kubiak coached team into a great team with Wade's great defense leading the way. It's somewhat coincidental that the Texans drop two losses against two of the worst teams in the league when Wade isn't around to coach the defense in those games and more mistakes are made. Maybe it's a fluke and maybe it isn't, but it is fact that two of our worst losses of the season seemed to come along in games when Wade wasn't around.

They have already spouted off that the Texans are 1 and done, so do not try to say it is simple evaluation. This "Fire Kubiak" obsession has been going on for years now and borders on a sport.


So what for crying out loud. People are predicting what they think we'll do from an objective standpoint. Why is that such a problem or hard to understand?? We've got a 5th round rookie starting right now with all types of other injuries on this team and we've played really poorly the last two games to where it looks like we can't score 20 points to save our lives. Is it really that crazy to expect us to be one and done in the playoffs considering those conditions?? Every fan I've heard from wants their team to play the Texans right now because of those conditions and believes the same thing. Nothing wrong with feeling confident that we can go further, but to denounce fans that don't feel that way is a little silly especially when this team and this coach have never been to the playoffs every in history.

The "Fire Kubiak" contingent has had all of their hatred bottled up over a 7 game win streak and now that a few games have been dropped they feel justified in starting up again instead of getting behind the team and waiting until the results are in, or the season is over to make an "Evaluation"

You want to show me any posts from regulars in here or even newbs in here that have stated they aren't behind the team?? Show me where that was stated.

ObsiWan
12-27-2011, 09:36 PM
Some coaches are good at acquiring talent. Other coaches excel at doing something meaningful with that talent. The great ones are good at both aspects.

So far, Kubiak has shown to be a good OC and offensive talent evaluator. As a HC, his history has clearly been mediocre, and by the grace of Wade, above average this season.
That's why I said the combo is what's working.

As far as the Landry angle, I think comparing modern head coaches to pre-Super Bowl coaches is misguided and ultimately intellectually vacant. It's a different league today.

Plus, Landry was a football genius. Let's just leave him up high where he belongs and keep him out of the comparisons with mere mortals like Gary Kubiak.

You just made the same comparison when you said...

Landry = football genius
Kubiak = mere mortal

I happen to agree that Landry was a "football genius"; albeit moreso defensively than offensively. My point was that it took even he a while to assemble a winning team.

And just because a point doesn't support your side of the discussion doesn't make it "misguided and ultimately intellectually vacant". Without any supporting points that explain why you believe that to be the case that statement is no more than a weak brush off.

Nice avatar, by the way. Rep for the HHGttG reference.
"Don't Panic".... Very appropriate.

gary
12-27-2011, 09:36 PM
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee312/gary1992/kool1.jpg

steelbtexan
12-27-2011, 09:46 PM
I think saying the Texans look like a bad HS football team destroys your credibility and does little to further your agenda to influence others into feeling like you do.

I wonder though if you feel the Texans players and front office echo your sentiments, or if it is only you and like minded fans who feel that way? Obviously current team members might not say anything to keep their jobs, but I do not recall released players moaning about the same things the
"Fire Kubiak" crowd do.

I am sure that by now a disgruntled player would have said something... When Mason was on "No Huddle" he had nothing but nice things to say about the Texans. Did not complain that Kubiak was too conservative. Said they would be fine with TJ. I don't think Mason is trying to keep from burning bridges either since he will likely not play again in the NFL.

It's just my opinion that the "Fire Kubiak" crowd are the minority, and that if the players had no confidence in him, or thought he was too conservative he surely would already be gone by now.

I'm not in the fire Gary crowd this yr. He's done a good job.

Go to almost any non wishbone high school football game and you will see more than 16 passes thrown in a game. (Sorry about the facts)

It doesn't matter what the players/media/fans think about firing Gary.

Gary is BoBBy's boy and as a Texans fan I've come to accept that. If Gary didn't get fired after the abortion that was last season, I dont think BoBBy ever fire him.

BTW, I dont think Gary should be fired after this season. Even though he's not a good HC.

After reading your post again, I said, BAD HIGH SCHOOL OFFENSE, did the Texans offense not look like a bad HS offense? Either you were being disingenious, have a reading comprehention problem or had too much to drink tonight. (All of which I've had a problem with in the past. LOL)

Anyway, if you cant admit the offensive gameplan looked like something Emory Bellard (Aggie reference) drew up. There's no point in further discussing this topic. We will have to agree to disagree.

Nitrofish
12-27-2011, 11:51 PM
It is silly to act like someone is not a Texans fan if they dislike the head coach. I guess you've got the biggest pom pom of them all?

Fans can root for the team with all their hearts while their heads continue to analyze various aspects of the franchise. Not everyone lives in a black and white world.

Seems like you guys are a bit sensitive, because I do not see where I am saying they are not Texans fans. I also do not see where I am saying I am their biggest fan. You are reading that into my words because it is you who want to say if we do not admit that Kubiak has been mediocre and should be replaced than we are just living in a fantasy land.

Of course everyone chooses to support their team in their own manner and I for one am glad they do, because this would be a pretty boring place if everyone thought the same thing.

The fact is you "Doom and Gloom" crew are the one's trying your hardest to push your agenda, not us "Sunshine Pumpers" as you call us. It is you that create most of these threads and when we disagree and post our thoughts, it is us who are called kool-aid sippers, or any number of names and labels you choose to put on us in an effort to belittle us just because we choose to look on the positive side and not dwell on the negative.

You all act as if we do not see any negative which is of course silly. We do see things that are less than perfect, but if perfection is your goal, good luck achieving that.

Don't worry guys... one day McNair and everyone else will catch up to your advanced thinking and then you will finally be able to say "See I told you so"

Nitrofish
12-28-2011, 12:21 AM
I'm not in the fire Gary crowd this yr. He's done a good job.

Go to almost any non wishbone high school football game and you will see more than 16 passes thrown in a game. (Sorry about the facts)

It doesn't matter what the players/media/fans think about firing Gary.

Gary is BoBBy's boy and as a Texans fan I've come to accept that. If Gary didn't get fired after the abortion that was last season, I dont think BoBBy ever fire him.

BTW, I dont think Gary should be fired after this season. Even though he's not a good HC.

After reading your post again, I said, BAD HIGH SCHOOL OFFENSE, did the Texans offense not look like a bad HS offense? Either you were being disingenious, have a reading comprehention problem or had too much to drink tonight. (All of which I've had a problem with in the past. LOL)

Anyway, if you cant admit the offensive gameplan looked like something Emory Bellard (Aggie reference) drew up. There's no point in further discussing this topic. We will have to agree to disagree.

The offense in that game was what it was.. It was good enough to be winning in the last few minutes of the game. It is the same game plan that hundreds of NFL coaches have used in thousands of games. It may not have been executed as well as we would have liked, but it was certainly enough to win without opening the throttle all the way and exposing key players to injury before our all important playoff run.

I do not believe Kubiak was concerned if we lost... I am sure he would have liked a win, but a loss would not have changed a single thing in the playoff picture and coming out with no injuries to key players was more important than a meaningless win against the Colts.

I am just so tired of hearing this same old mantra about Kubiak. Face it... after this seasons success (make no mistake it is successful) he will not be going anywhere anytime soon so please stow it for now.

Let go of the last two losses, get behind the team and let's beat the Titans and then take care of business in the post season.

TexansFanatic
12-28-2011, 12:32 AM
I do not believe Kubiak was concerned if we lost...

If true, he really does need to be fired immediately.

I am sure he would have liked a win, but a loss would not have changed a single thing in the playoff picture

This is simply an absurd thing to state and undeniably false. No matter how much you want the loss to the Colts to be meaningless so you can sweep it under the rug, it was huge in terms of playoff positioning. Kubiak's teams don't fare well against playoff teams on the road. He has a 2-19 record against them.


Let go of the last two losses, get behind the team and let's beat the Titans and then take care of business in the post season.

Nobody here isn't already behind the team.

Nitrofish
12-28-2011, 12:43 AM
This is simply an absurd thing to state and undeniably false. No matter how much you want the loss to the Colts to be meaningless so you can sweep it under the rug, it was huge in terms of playoff positioning. Kubiak's teams don't fare well against playoff teams on the road. He has a 2-19 record against them.


Playoff seeding DOES NOT matter. And his regular season record against them has nothing to do with our playoff run, especially since we are not playing the Colts in the playoffs.

Get over it already.

The fact is neither is MORE valuable... this season shows one thing clearly. Together they are a winning combination and when all of the pieces are healthy and back in place, there is no limit to what they can and will achieve.

TexansFanatic
12-28-2011, 12:48 AM
Playoff seeding DOES NOT matter. And his regular season record against them has nothing to do with our playoff run, especially since we are not playing the Colts in the playoffs..

Bwahahahahahahaha!!!

That's right, the Texans won't be playing the Colts....

TexansFanatic
12-28-2011, 12:58 AM
To suggest that playoff seeding in the NFL is unimportant is quite simply asinine.


Team Stat Visualizations and Trends
Dec 23, 2011
The Importance of Playoff Seeding

This is the time of the year for joy and family and gifts--all that good stuff. But more importantly, it’s also the time for teams to jockey for playoff seeds. I get the sense that the conventional wisdom is that yes, seeds are somewhat important, but the notion that ‘just get in the playoffs and anything can happen’ is the dominant view. But as we'll see, seeding is critically important.

We’ve seen many wildcard teams make it to, and even win, the Super Bowl. There are four wildcard berths each year, and when we see a wildcard team make it to the Super Bowl, it’s noted, highlighted, and becomes part of the team narrative. No one remarks when the #3 seed makes it to the big game, despite it being less likely than either of a conference’s two wildcard seeds to make it.

Although it’s certainly true that ‘anything can happen’, that’s really only true from the perspective of a neutral observer. If you’re looking at the chance that any one of the four wildcard teams make it to the Super Bowl, you’ve got a pretty solid chance of seeing that happen. But if you look at it from the perspective of one particular wildcard team, your chances of going to the Super Bowl are relatively slim. It’s all a matter of perspective.

Football commentators certainly understand that seeds are important—a team would always prefer a higher seed. But I sense that they don’t fully appreciate how critical seeds are in the current NFL format. I hear talk about having home field advantage and having a week off to get healthy, but commentators seem to overlook the most important part of a playoff bye: It’s an automatic win in the first round. Maybe it’s overlooked because it’s so obvious, but those other considerations pale in comparison to the value of a free win. Right away, a bye practically doubles a team’s chance of making it to the Super Bowl. Doubles. A different way of thinking of the playoff format is that the top two seeds are the only two that actually ‘make the playoffs’, and the other four seeds must first win a play-in game.

To isolate just how critical seeding is, I calculated the chances each seed would make it to the Super Bowl due to seeding alone, ignoring differences in team strength.

I gave home teams a 60% chance of winning each game. Although the league-wide average is 57%, that number includes many mismatch games. When teams are close in ability, home field becomes more decisive. (Think of it this way: If the Packers played the Maryland Terrapins, the outcome wouldn’t depend at all on where the game was played.)

The probability for the #1 seed is straightforward. It’s just 0.6*0.6 because they need to win 2 home games. The #2 team needs to win 1 home game and has a 60% chance of being on the road in the conference championship (if the #1 seed wins its first game) and a 40% of being at home (if the #1 seed loses.) The total probability for the #2 seed would therefore be 0.6 * [(0.6*0.4)+(0.4*0.6)], which comes to 0.288. The probabilities for the other seeds become more complex but can be calculated the same way.

Here is how the probabilities work out for each seed. Also listed are the actual proportions of Super Bowl appearances since 2002 when the current format began. Keep in mind that the 'actual' numbers reflect the effect of both seeding and team strength, and that there are only 18 observations since '02, so they will be statistically noisy. Also note that the chances will not sum to 100% due to rounding. (Thanks go to my research intern for compiling the actual numbers.)

Please Click Here For A Better Look At This Table (http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/12/importance-of-playoff-seeding.html)

Seed SB Prob Actual
1 36% 44%
2 29% 22%
3 11% 11%
4 10% 6%
5 7% 6%
6 6% 11%

You can see that the #1 seed has about six times the chance of a wildcard team to make it to the Super Bowl. The #2 seed has nearly five times the chance. These are enormous differences, and they’re due to seeding effects alone.

Right now the 49ers and Saints are jockeying for the #2 seed in the NFC. The loser of that battle will fall from a 29% shot to an 11% shot at making the Super Bowl.

In the AFC, the biggest battle is between the Ravens and Steelers for what is most likely going to be the #2 seed, assuming the Patriots win out. The loser of the AFC North battle will sink to the #5 seed, cutting their chance of making the Super Bowl by over a factor of four, from 29% to 7%. In other words, the division champion quadruples its chance of making it to Indianapolis in February.

When it comes to making it to the Super Bowl, seeding alone is critically important, far more so than even team strength.

LINK (http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/12/importance-of-playoff-seeding.html)

Nitrofish
12-28-2011, 01:59 AM
Well thank you captain obvious. I mean it does not take a genius to figure out that the #1 seed is more likely to make it since they play one less game, but my data (Real SB Winners) shows that teams in the last ten years have proven that model wrong.

To be fair they both are small sample sizes and as the article states a bit noisy. Someone needs to do a full statistical analysis, but then rule changes and other factors would be in play. I think you miss the point.

You and others are going to extreme length to prove we have little chance at winning, and I really do not understand your point. I mean I guess we should all curl up in a ball and not even show up for the games then right?

thunderkyss
12-28-2011, 06:51 AM
Anyway, if you cant admit the offensive gameplan looked like something Emory Bellard (Aggie reference) drew up. There's no point in further discussing this topic. We will have to agree to disagree.

That's the same plan that beat the Bucs, 37-9. Schaub was 11 of 15, where Yates was 13-16.

welsh texan
12-28-2011, 07:58 AM
Both are pretty mediocre head coaches. So far they seem like a pretty incredible combination as a pairing. Frankly, I'm scared of a situation where Kubiak gets locked up again and Wade decides to move on. If either one was to leave I'd be extremely unhappy not seeing Bill Cowher chased hard to take the reigns.

Wade has one thing over Kubiak, and that seems to be his talent evaluation. From what I've seen, Kubiak isn't even great at talent evaluation on his side of the ball, a good coach yes, but how many wasted picks have we seen on Offense in the Kubiak era? Some of them fairly high as well.

Sure he seems to coach up the 6th and 7th rounders quite well, but look at the number of misses in the 3rd round where you should be hoping to find an eventual starter. Most of them are tight ends.:smiliepalm:

Still, I'm pretty happy right now, excited to see what the D will look like with a full offseason programme for coaching, a healthier Demeco Ryans, and a couple of good picks to improve the depth.

Dishman
12-28-2011, 08:31 AM
Both are pretty mediocre head coaches. So far they seem like a pretty incredible combination as a pairing. Frankly, I'm scared of a situation where Kubiak gets locked up again and Wade decides to move on. If either one was to leave I'd be extremely unhappy not seeing Bill Cowher chased hard to take the reigns.

Wade has one thing over Kubiak, and that seems to be his talent evaluation. From what I've seen, Kubiak isn't even great at talent evaluation on his side of the ball, a good coach yes, but how many wasted picks have we seen on Offense in the Kubiak era? Some of them fairly high as well.

Sure he seems to coach up the 6th and 7th rounders quite well, but look at the number of misses in the 3rd round where you should be hoping to find an eventual starter. Most of them are tight ends.:smiliepalm:

Still, I'm pretty happy right now, excited to see what the D will look like with a full offseason programme for coaching, a healthier Demeco Ryans, and a couple of good picks to improve the depth.

Both are mediocre Head Coaches? One of these head coaches has a sub .500 record and the other does not, which leads me to believe one of these coaches isn't so mediocre.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2011, 08:34 AM
:pissed:

Why?!?!?? Why did my dumbass self read all the stupidity in this thread??!!?

*punches self in the junk*

Tailgate
12-28-2011, 08:38 AM
Which one is easier to replace and the repercussions of letting each go? In other words how transferrable are our current systems to a new coach? How entrenched are we in this offense? Imo Kubiak is just as valuable as Wade in this manner.

HOU-TEX
12-28-2011, 08:59 AM
:pissed:

Why?!?!?? Why did my dumbass self read all the stupidity in this thread??!!?

*punches self in the junk*

I've jumped to the last page every day. It hasn't gotten any better, so I've refused to read through the entire thread.

thunderkyss
12-28-2011, 09:01 AM
Imo Kubiak is just as valuable as Wade in this manner.

There are too many examples of good defenses with no offenses this year to say one is more valuable than the other.

A team like Cleveland is now 11th, would have much better defensive stats if their offense could stay on the field. Same can be said for Jacksonville, the Jets, or the Seahawks.

We saw last Thursday what happens to our defense when our offense can't stay on the field.

ChampionTexan
12-28-2011, 09:31 AM
Bill Parcells career regular season record as a Head coach without Bill Belichick on his staff is 55-57. His record with him is 117-73. His post-season record without him is 0-3. With him, it's 11-5 and includes two Super Bowl victories, a third Super Bowl appearance, and another appearance in the AFC Championship Game.

I'm not concerned with who you like, or what you (and I) think should have happened after last season or after 2009. If the partnership is working, enjoy it and relax. Someday - for whatever reason - it will either stop working, or cease to exist. Worry about that when the time comes.

Texecutioner
12-28-2011, 09:52 AM
To suggest that playoff seeding in the NFL is unimportant is quite simply asinine.


Team Stat Visualizations and Trends
Dec 23, 2011
The Importance of Playoff Seeding

This is the time of the year for joy and family and gifts--all that good stuff. But more importantly, it’s also the time for teams to jockey for playoff seeds. I get the sense that the conventional wisdom is that yes, seeds are somewhat important, but the notion that ‘just get in the playoffs and anything can happen’ is the dominant view. But as we'll see, seeding is critically important.

We’ve seen many wildcard teams make it to, and even win, the Super Bowl. There are four wildcard berths each year, and when we see a wildcard team make it to the Super Bowl, it’s noted, highlighted, and becomes part of the team narrative. No one remarks when the #3 seed makes it to the big game, despite it being less likely than either of a conference’s two wildcard seeds to make it.

Although it’s certainly true that ‘anything can happen’, that’s really only true from the perspective of a neutral observer. If you’re looking at the chance that any one of the four wildcard teams make it to the Super Bowl, you’ve got a pretty solid chance of seeing that happen. But if you look at it from the perspective of one particular wildcard team, your chances of going to the Super Bowl are relatively slim. It’s all a matter of perspective.

Football commentators certainly understand that seeds are important—a team would always prefer a higher seed. But I sense that they don’t fully appreciate how critical seeds are in the current NFL format. I hear talk about having home field advantage and having a week off to get healthy, but commentators seem to overlook the most important part of a playoff bye: It’s an automatic win in the first round. Maybe it’s overlooked because it’s so obvious, but those other considerations pale in comparison to the value of a free win. Right away, a bye practically doubles a team’s chance of making it to the Super Bowl. Doubles. A different way of thinking of the playoff format is that the top two seeds are the only two that actually ‘make the playoffs’, and the other four seeds must first win a play-in game.

To isolate just how critical seeding is, I calculated the chances each seed would make it to the Super Bowl due to seeding alone, ignoring differences in team strength.

I gave home teams a 60% chance of winning each game. Although the league-wide average is 57%, that number includes many mismatch games. When teams are close in ability, home field becomes more decisive. (Think of it this way: If the Packers played the Maryland Terrapins, the outcome wouldn’t depend at all on where the game was played.)

The probability for the #1 seed is straightforward. It’s just 0.6*0.6 because they need to win 2 home games. The #2 team needs to win 1 home game and has a 60% chance of being on the road in the conference championship (if the #1 seed wins its first game) and a 40% of being at home (if the #1 seed loses.) The total probability for the #2 seed would therefore be 0.6 * [(0.6*0.4)+(0.4*0.6)], which comes to 0.288. The probabilities for the other seeds become more complex but can be calculated the same way.

Here is how the probabilities work out for each seed. Also listed are the actual proportions of Super Bowl appearances since 2002 when the current format began. Keep in mind that the 'actual' numbers reflect the effect of both seeding and team strength, and that there are only 18 observations since '02, so they will be statistically noisy. Also note that the chances will not sum to 100% due to rounding. (Thanks go to my research intern for compiling the actual numbers.)

Please Click Here For A Better Look At This Table (http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/12/importance-of-playoff-seeding.html)

Seed SB Prob Actual
1 36% 44%
2 29% 22%
3 11% 11%
4 10% 6%
5 7% 6%
6 6% 11%

You can see that the #1 seed has about six times the chance of a wildcard team to make it to the Super Bowl. The #2 seed has nearly five times the chance. These are enormous differences, and they’re due to seeding effects alone.

Right now the 49ers and Saints are jockeying for the #2 seed in the NFC. The loser of that battle will fall from a 29% shot to an 11% shot at making the Super Bowl.

In the AFC, the biggest battle is between the Ravens and Steelers for what is most likely going to be the #2 seed, assuming the Patriots win out. The loser of the AFC North battle will sink to the #5 seed, cutting their chance of making the Super Bowl by over a factor of four, from 29% to 7%. In other words, the division champion quadruples its chance of making it to Indianapolis in February.

When it comes to making it to the Super Bowl, seeding alone is critically important, far more so than even team strength.

LINK (http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/12/importance-of-playoff-seeding.html)

You'd think this is pure common sense to anyone that has watched football or any tournament format in any sport before, but apparently people will say anything to try and make themselves seem right in an argument. Seeding isn't important. Lol!!

Texan_Bill
12-28-2011, 09:52 AM
I've jumped to the last page every day. It hasn't gotten any better, so I've refused to read through the entire thread.

I'm not sure if I want to scrub my brain with bleach or shove an ice pick through my ear hole.

steelbtexan
12-28-2011, 10:06 AM
That's the same plan that beat the Bucs, 37-9. Schaub was 11 of 15, where Yates was 13-16.

With Wade

Which kinda proves the point that while both Wade and Gary have their flaws as HC's.

The answer to the OP's question is, obviously Wade and it's not even really close.

Hopefully NF can go back to tending to the sheep now.

steelbtexan
12-28-2011, 10:12 AM
Bill Parcells career regular season record as a Head coach without Bill Belichick on his staff is 55-57. His record with him is 117-73. His post-season record without him is 0-3. With him, it's 11-5 and includes two Super Bowl victories, a third Super Bowl appearance, and another appearance in the AFC Championship Game.

I'm not concerned with who you like, or what you (and I) think should have happened after last season or after 2009. If the partnership is working, enjoy it and relax. Someday - for whatever reason - it will either stop working, or cease to exist. Worry about that when the time comes.

Best post of this entire thread

Repped

HOU-TEX
12-28-2011, 10:24 AM
I'm not sure if I want to scrub my brain with bleach or shove an ice pick through my ear hole.

As dirty as your mind is...I'd go with the bleach to the brain

Or you could opt for the splintered toothpick in the peepee hole

Nitrofish
12-28-2011, 10:27 AM
You'd think this is pure common sense to anyone that has watched football or any tournament format in any sport before, but apparently people will say anything to try and make themselves seem right in an argument. Seeding isn't important. Lol!!

First of all DO NOT twist my words. I said they are not as important as you make them out to be. That clearly the #1 or #2 seed does not always win it, or even win it more than any others. My point was stop trying to make it out like the Texans have no chance because they lost to the Panthers and the Colts.

So the fact that last years winner was a #6 seed and my post of the last ten years of SB winners being pretty much a split, you are just to ignore and hook your wagon to some obscure article on a website that openly says it's numbers are noisy and a very small sample size just to make yourself seem right? I mean read the comments at the bottom of that article and you will see plenty who disagree and even debunk it.

It's ok with me... You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink. I guess we will see who was right in the next month or so eh?

I guess we should stop having a Super Bowl and just find out who wins the highest seed in the regular season then crown them champions.

Señor Stan
12-28-2011, 10:31 AM
I guess we should stop having a Super Bowl and just find out who wins the highest seed in the regular season then crown them champions.

Hmmm....I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter...

Sincerely,

the BCS

Nitrofish
12-28-2011, 10:36 AM
With Wade

Which kinda proves the point that while both Wade and Gary have their flaws as HC's.

The answer to the OP's question is, obviously Wade and it's not even really close.

Hopefully NF can go back to tending to the sheep now.

Hehe... Don't count on it... Besides last time I looked all the sheep were at your place. They always come back real nervous. It's the weirdest thing.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2011, 10:38 AM
As dirty as your mind is...I'd go with the bleach to the brain

Or you could opt for the splintered toothpick in the peepee hole

Immediate shrinkage. :smiliepalm:

thunderkyss
12-28-2011, 10:45 AM
With Wade

Which kinda proves the point that while both Wade and Gary have their flaws as HC's.

The answer to the OP's question is, obviously Wade and it's not even really close.

Hopefully NF can go back to tending to the sheep now.

I don't know that it proves any point other than Tj Yates isn't as efficient as Matt Schaub yet.

Even in that game Thursday night, the defense (without Wade) held Indy to 10 points. Their last drive wasn't a poor showing by our defense, they stopped Indy 3 times. & was probably Jj Watt's best showing to date... no, not probably, that was. Unfortunately the yellow flags came out & extended that drive (twice).

Tj Yates in his 4th start had this team in a position to win with 1:56 left in the game. I understand the ball wasn't flying all over the field, but if you like defense & the Texans, that was a damn good game to watch. If you like hardnose, run it down their throat football & the Texans, that was a damn good game to watch. Maybe not your cup of T, but Kubiak called a good game plan that should have won that game.

Didn't. But should have. I'm not saying Kubiak should get a pass. I'm not saying we can put it in the imaginary win column. It was a loss. We didn't lose because we didn't get that first down (though we'd have definitely won if we had). We lost, because our defense didn't step up when they had the opportunity.

They did it all year long, they are the main reason we won all of our games. But, the game was on the line, they were in the best position possible, the game was in their hands & when we needed a stop, it didn't happen.

Double Barrel
12-28-2011, 11:03 AM
And just because a point doesn't support your side of the discussion doesn't make it "misguided and ultimately intellectually vacant". Without any supporting points that explain why you believe that to be the case that statement is no more than a weak brush off.

I do not discard valid points that do not support 'my side of a discussion'.

I just do not find a comparison of Tom Landry and 1960's era NFL to be a valid comparison to the modern NFL. Tom Landry started his career with an expansion team in the pre-Super Bowl era, before free agency, before P.E.D. testing, and had a much smaller number of teams and smaller pool of coaching talent to compete for his job.

You are obviously free to look at apples and oranges as both fruit, which is basically what you are doing with Landry vs. Kubiak, but I'm looking at the details of the argument to recognize that each is a different kind of fruit.

The fact is you "Doom and Gloom" crew are the one's trying your hardest to push your agenda, not us "Sunshine Pumpers" as you call us. It is you that create most of these threads and when we disagree and post our thoughts, it is us who are called kool-aid sippers, or any number of names and labels you choose to put on us in an effort to belittle us just because we choose to look on the positive side and not dwell on the negative.

You can check your condescension at the bathroom door where you created it.

You are babbling on about so-called "Kubiak haters", which seems to be anyone that has a critical analysis of his 6 season tenure with this franchise. Disliking Kubiak on any level is not doom and gloom. You are apparently confused about what that term means.

Instead of talking about other fans, which appears to be the majority of your spewage, why not actually present factual evidence of Kubiak's greatness? You obviously think he is a fantastic coach. So why not debate that side of things instead of acting like a worthless troll on this forum?

Nitrofish
12-28-2011, 11:18 AM
I do not discard valid points that do not support 'my side of a discussion'.

I just do not find a comparison of Tom Landry and 1960's era NFL to be a valid comparison to the modern NFL. Tom Landry started his career with an expansion team in the pre-Super Bowl era, before free agency, before P.E.D. testing, and had a much smaller number of teams and smaller pool of coaching talent to compete for his job.

You are obviously free to look at apples and oranges as both fruit, which is basically what you are doing with Landry vs. Kubiak, but I'm looking at the details of the argument to recognize that each is a different kind of fruit.



You can check your condescension at the bathroom door where you created it.

You are babbling on about so-called "Kubiak haters", which seems to be anyone that has a critical analysis of his 6 season tenure with this franchise. Disliking Kubiak on any level is not doom and gloom. You are apparently confused about what that term means.

Instead of talking about other fans, which appears to be the majority of your spewage, why not actually present factual evidence of Kubiak's greatness? You obviously think he is a fantastic coach. So why not debate that side of things instead of acting like a worthless troll on this forum?

See what I mean? I am babbling, I am a troll because I do not agree with you. What I say is spewage. Just more name calling in an effort to discredit me. So childish.

It's one thing to be critical, it is another to drone on and on about a loss and use it as leverage as why Kubiak should be gone.

The Doom and Gloom to which I refer is those of you saying we have no chance of winning a playoff game let alone the Super Bowl because we lost to the Panthers and the Colts. Every time there is a loss the whole thing starts over again.

You cannot even accept one or two losses after a 7 game win streak that clinched our Division and Playoff berth. Everything bad that happens is Kubiak's fault and anything good that happens in someone else's doing.

And you can check your elitism at the door too dude.

Double Barrel
12-28-2011, 11:24 AM
See what I mean? I am babbling, I am a troll because I do not agree with you. What I say is spewage. Just more name calling in an effort to discredit me. So childish.

It's one thing to be critical, it is another to drone on and on about a loss and use it as leverage as why Kubiak should be gone.

The Doom and Gloom to which I refer is those of you saying we have no chance of winning a playoff game let alone the Super Bowl because we lost to the Panthers and the Colts. Every time there is a loss the whole thing starts over again.

You cannot even accept one or two losses after a 7 game win streak that clinched our Division and Playoff berth. Everything bad that happens is Kubiak's fault and anything good that happens in someone else's doing.

And you can check your elitism at the door too dude.

I never said he should be gone. ASSume much?

The way they lost to the 1 win Colts led by Dan freakin' Orlavsky should concern ALL Texans fans.

Playoff bound teams do not lose to 1 win teams. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

"elitism"...BWAHAHAHAHA!! You're a funny dude. What a joke.

btw, nice sig, but it's too big according to forum rules. Unlike the main board, we've got standards. :)

ChampionTexan
12-28-2011, 11:33 AM
I never said he should be gone. ASSume much?

The way they lost to the 1 win Colts led by Dan freakin' Orlavsky should concern ALL Texans fans.

Playoff bound teams do not lose to 1 win teams. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

"elitism"...BWAHAHAHAHA!! You're a funny dude. What a joke.

btw, nice sig, but it's too big according to forum rules. Unlike the main board, we've got standards. :)

Well, New Orleans lost to a team that could still feasibly finish with a worse record than the Colts. They did it with a QB who is very possibly a future Hall of Famer. We did it with a Rookie 5th round draft pick who was third on the depth chart a little over a month ago. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that A.J. Feeley was the starting QB for the Rams that day.

Last I checked, New Orleans is arguably the team with the best chance to beat Green Bay in the playoffs, and make it to the Super Bowl. So apparently playoff bound teams (even those expected to make some noise when they get there) do occasionally lose to one win teams.

Double Barrel
12-28-2011, 11:36 AM
Well, New Orleans lost to a team that could still feasibly finish with a worse record than the Colts. They did it with a QB who is very possibly a future Hall of Famer. We did it with a Rookie 5th round draft pick who was third on the depth chart a little over a month ago.

Last I checked, New Orleans is arguably the team with the best chance to beat Green Bay in the playoffs, and make it to the Super Bowl. So apparently playoff bound teams (even those expected to make some noise when they get there) do occasionally lose to one win teams.

New Orleans also beat the Colts 62 - 7.

And our rookie QB did not lose the game to the Colts. Our "elite" #2 defense lost it in the two minute warning to Dan freakin' Orlavsky.

That should be a concern for anyone thinking that our defense can carry this team to the Super Bowl.

ChampionTexan
12-28-2011, 11:46 AM
New Orleans also beat the Colts 62 - 7.

And our rookie QB did not lose the game to the Colts. Our "elite" #2 defense lost it in the two minute warning to Dan freakin' Orlavsky.

That should be a concern for anyone thinking that our defense can carry this team to the Super Bowl.

And we beat them 34-7 although I fail to see what the hell either thing has to do with the price of tea in China.

Good teams/defenses have bad days, and there are reasons to believe that could have been what happened last Thursday (Starting with time of possession). I remain far more concerned about the offense than the defense. Don't forget that if Dan freakin' Orlovsky were still on our roster, he would very likely be our starting QB.

Nitrofish
12-28-2011, 11:58 AM
I never said he should be gone. ASSume much?

The way they lost to the 1 win Colts led by Dan freakin' Orlavsky should concern ALL Texans fans.

Playoff bound teams do not lose to 1 win teams. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

"elitism"...BWAHAHAHAHA!! You're a funny dude. What a joke.

btw, nice sig, but it's too big according to forum rules. Unlike the main board, we've got standards. :)

I never said you said that, but one would be safe in ASSuming that someone who posts in defense of those whom I was referring to is probably of like mind.

Any team can lose no matter how mighty or superior they appear to be so I do not buy that argument. To be concerned about a loss or the way the team played is one thing, but to drone on and on endlessly in nearly every thread for days and weeks on end is a little more than showing your concern.

It's my opinion it is time to stop the Kubiak bashing, get behind the team and focus on beating the Titans and winning in the Playoffs.

"I'm funny?, Funny how? Funny like a clown? How am I funny to you?" -Joe Pesci in Casino.

I have been lurking on this board for more than a year now and I can tell you this is by far the most Elitist board I have ever read. Some of you guys are so full of yourselves it is hilarious.

SIG FIXED

Double Barrel
12-28-2011, 12:21 PM
I have been lurking on this board for more than a year now and I can tell you this is by far the most Elitist board I have ever read. Some of you guys are so full of yourselves it is hilarious.


Then why are you here? :um:

Double Barrel
12-28-2011, 12:27 PM
And we beat them 34-7 although I fail to see what the hell either thing has to do with the price of tea in China.

Good teams/defenses have bad days, and there are reasons to believe that could have been what happened last Thursday (Starting with time of possession). I remain far more concerned about the offense than the defense. Don't forget that if Dan freakin' Orlovsky were still on our roster, he would very likely be our starting QB.

I'm not sure where your tangent is headed, but my point was that 10 win teams do not lose to 1 win teams...until now.

Our team made history again.

If that makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, far be it from me to steal your joy. I just don't see that as a good thing in any sort of way.

Injuries are catching up, and I think Kubiak and Phillips deserve a lot of credit for this season. Nothing wrong with being happy with 10-5, division title, and first playoff appearance in team history.

The point of this thread, though - "Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak" - is valid. 5 seasons of perpetual mediocre results finally changed once Wade was coaching half the team.

Nitrofish
12-28-2011, 12:27 PM
Then why are you here? :um:

Oh I came for the free beer! :party:

All kidding aside I said some of you, not all of you. Most are pretty level headed and just love their Texans.

infantrycak
12-28-2011, 12:34 PM
And our rookie QB did not lose the game to the Colts. Our "elite" #2 defense lost it in the two minute warning to Dan freakin' Orlavsky.

I'm sorry and this will be the first and hopefully only time I throw this card but the refs absolutely gave that game to the Colts. Not saying the Texans played well because they didn't. But even sucking they would have won the game but for the atrocious officiating.

Nitrofish
12-28-2011, 12:36 PM
The point of this thread, though - "Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak" - is valid. 5 seasons of perpetual mediocre results finally changed once Wade was coaching half the team.


The fact is we all knew offense was not the problem with this team in the past. We were all aware that a solid D would make all the difference in the world and it has.

But to say Phillips is More Valuable is laughable. If we did not have Kubiak we would be the Jaguars. I think they are great together, neither is more valuable than the other.

IMHO this thread is intended to divide not determine who is more valuable. Fans of other teams are looking in on this board and laughing at us over this stupid thread.

Mr teX
12-28-2011, 12:41 PM
New Orleans also beat the Colts 62 - 7.

And our rookie QB did not lose the game to the Colts. Our "elite" #2 defense lost it in the two minute warning to Dan freakin' Orlavsky.
That should be a concern for anyone thinking that our defense can carry this team to the Super Bowl.

& the bolded is why this thread was silly to begin with & should've been closed 3 days ago. When all things are taken into account, neither of these guys is any more valuable than the other. The sum of the parts is greater than the individual parts themselves.

Offensive minded individuals could look at 3 of our losses and put most of the blame on the defense.

Defensive minded individuals could look at 3 of our losses and put most of the blame on the offense.

If you can't be objective, then it really just comes down to your perspective.

santo
12-28-2011, 12:42 PM
I'm sorry and this will be the first and hopefully only time I throw this card but the refs absolutely gave that game to the Colts. Not saying the Texans played well because they didn't. But even sucking they would have won the game but for the atrocious officiating.


Exactly. The refs made this game look like the Jets game last year. I knew the Texans had this game won with the Colts having no timeouts, but when I saw the refs converting 3rd downs for the Colts, I knew the Texans were screwed. :polevault:

ChampionTexan
12-28-2011, 01:09 PM
I'm not sure where your tangent is headed, but my point was that 10 win teams do not lose to 1 win teams...until now.

Our team made history again.

If that makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, far be it from me to steal your joy. I just don't see that as a good thing in any sort of way.

Injuries are catching up, and I think Kubiak and Phillips deserve a lot of credit for this season. Nothing wrong with being happy with 10-5, division title, and first playoff appearance in team history.

The point of this thread, though - "Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak" - is valid. 5 seasons of perpetual mediocre results finally changed once Wade was coaching half the team.

And I simply pointed out that a current 11 win New Orleans team lost to a current two win St. Louis team, and the fact that it happened early in the season doesn't really change it's comparability. Not saying it makes me feel warm and fuzzy, but I don't exactly feel suicidal either.

And referring to another one of my previous posts, I'm not concerned with who's most important, because I don't want to see either Kubiak or Phillips here by themselves (even though it's probably inevitable). I'm just trying to enjoy the collaboration while I have the chance.

Texecutioner
12-28-2011, 01:21 PM
I never said you said that, but one would be safe in ASSuming that someone who posts in defense of those whom I was referring to is probably of like mind.

Any team can lose no matter how mighty or superior they appear to be so I do not buy that argument. To be concerned about a loss or the way the team played is one thing, but to drone on and on endlessly in nearly every thread for days and weeks on end is a little more than showing your concern.

It's my opinion it is time to stop the Kubiak bashing, get behind the team and focus on beating the Titans and winning in the Playoffs.

"I'm funny?, Funny how? Funny like a clown? How am I funny to you?" -Joe Pesci in Casino.

I have been lurking on this board for more than a year now and I can tell you this is by far the most Elitist board I have ever read. Some of you guys are so full of yourselves it is hilarious.

SIG FIXED

DB has been a strong member of this site for years and anyone in here would vouch for him as far as how dedicated he's been as a fan here, so knock it off with the "You need to support this team" rhetoric. If you don't like to hear DB or other folks giving their opinions on this board, than leave.

Why don't you stop telling other people what to feel like whether it's about a coach, a player, an owner, or so on. Stop telling other fans what to think or feel just because you believe in being a homer at all costs and will support every decision by this franchise unconditionally. And for crying out loud quit telling people to support this team as if they aren't die hard fans already. You come off really stupid by telling die hard fans that when they're obviously highly invested in this team or they wouldn't be in here talking about it. Several members in here have explained this obvious part to you, but you aren't capable of understanding that, because you don't want to. You're so hell bent on trying to tell others what they should feel about Kubiak that you aren't capable of a rationale conversation at this point. Pretty soon you'll find that people won't be responding to near as many of your posts, because they'll have you on ignore honestly. No one cares to continually hear someone spew venom because they're butt hurt over their favorite HC being criticized. We're Texans fans, and we root for this franchise. You come off more like a "Kubiak fan" rather than a Texan fan in my observations thus far.

Double Barrel
12-28-2011, 01:23 PM
I'm sorry and this will be the first and hopefully only time I throw this card but the refs absolutely gave that game to the Colts. Not saying the Texans played well because they didn't. But even sucking they would have won the game but for the atrocious officiating.

I'm disappointed in you. It's a cop-out to blame the refs. The players and coaches don't do it, so why should we?

I've seen those plays many times since then, and only one (Watt) that I would consider egregious. The rest of them were just sloppy play and if they were incorrect, the league would advise accordingly.

I guess you think "the fix" is in, too? Both teams had the same refs, so either they had it in for the Texans, or the Texans just played undisciplined ball.

I do not subscribe to referee bias for one team over the other. yeah, they were officiating tight, but the Texans dug their own hole, not the refs.

But to say Phillips is More Valuable is laughable.

Please elaborate on Kubiak's Hall of Fame coaching career before Wade was hired. :bubbles:

Such dismissal without valid content is laughable.

Fans of other teams are looking in on this board and laughing at us over this stupid thread.

As far as other fans and their opinions, I will leave that hand-wringing nonsense to you. I could give a crap what other fans think about us. I have visited other boards, and all of them are full of the same things: opinions from fans.

thunderkyss
12-28-2011, 02:19 PM
Our "elite" #2 defense lost it in the two minute warning to Dan freakin' Orlavsky.

That should be a concern for anyone thinking that our defense can carry this team to the Super Bowl.

Yes, absolutely.

If this is the source of your anger, I can see your point.

Complaining about the offense... not so much. I see it as a stepping stone for the offense, something to build on.

Definitely expected the defense to get the job done in that situation.

thunderkyss
12-28-2011, 02:29 PM
The point of this thread, though - "Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak" - is valid. 5 seasons of perpetual mediocre results finally changed once Wade was coaching half the team.

Jacksonville, Cleveland, & Seattle.

thunderkyss
12-28-2011, 02:34 PM
I'm disappointed in you. It's a cop-out to blame the refs. The players and coaches don't do it, so why should we?

I doubt the team is as critical of Coach Kubes, but that don't stop us now does it?

:kitten:

Double Barrel
12-28-2011, 02:36 PM
Yes, absolutely.

If this is the source of your anger, I can see your point.

Complaining about the offense... not so much. I see it as a stepping stone for the offense, something to build on.

Definitely expected the defense to get the job done in that situation.

yeah, that Colts game blew my mind in a way. I fully expected the Texans to win it, and that's the first time that I've gone into a game actually expecting something. I can actually say that's the first time that I've went into a game expecting anything since 35-3. That's 18 years between expectations.

The offense is just in trouble right now. Not having a vet QB in this system will ultimately cost us. I can't blame that on anyone, and I give props to Kubiak for winning any games - much less a division title - without Schaub.

Our defense, though, should be more than just stats. I expected them to rise to the occasion of beating a 1 win team. The Colts suck this year. That performance by our D was inexcusable, IMHO.

The fact that we were winning with 2 minutes left is not on the offense. They did what they could under the circumstances. The D should have focused and taken care of business instead of what we saw.

infantrycak
12-28-2011, 02:53 PM
I'm disappointed in you. It's a cop-out to blame the refs. The players and coaches don't do it, so why should we?

I've seen those plays many times since then, and only one (Watt) that I would consider egregious. The rest of them were just sloppy play and if they were incorrect, the league would advise accordingly.

I guess you think "the fix" is in, too? Both teams had the same refs, so either they had it in for the Texans, or the Texans just played undisciplined ball.

I do not subscribe to referee bias for one team over the other. yeah, they were officiating tight, but the Texans dug their own hole, not the refs.

I guess you can be disappointed if you wish and I am not alleging any conspiracy or bias. But that was crappy officiating plain and simple. I said the Texans played like crap as well. But even playing crappy they would have won but for incredibly bad officiating.

And yes the officiating being incredibly bad has been commented on even though league rules prevent players and coaches from commenting on it.

Double Barrel
12-28-2011, 03:47 PM
I guess you can be disappointed if you wish and I am not alleging any conspiracy or bias. But that was crappy officiating plain and simple. I said the Texans played like crap as well. But even playing crappy they would have won but for incredibly bad officiating.

And yes the officiating being incredibly bad has been commented on even though league rules prevent players and coaches from commenting on it.

Both teams had the same officials, though.

So logically, both teams had to deal with crappy officiating, just like both teams have to deal with the same weather, same playing surface, etc.

The penalties in the Texans/Colts game were tighter (which is usually considered 'bad' by fans), but they were not unwarranted. The rules they are based upon suck, but the calls themselves were valid.

Bob Allen broke down almost all the penalties, and with the exception of Watt getting blocked into the back of the QB, they were all legit.

The officials did not call single coverage on Reggie Wayne by Kareem Jackson. That's on the players and coaches for failing to execute. Why was Jackson on the Colts’ best receiver?

You know my 'disappointment' is cerebral only, right? You know I've got mad respect for your perspective. I was just taken back a little to see you using the ref card for the loss. It's out-of-character.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2011, 04:07 PM
What did y'all do? Go ahead and run Nitrofish out of here??

************************

DB, I agree with Cak here.

I'm generally one that won't criticize the officiating and generally thinks work out to be even. That said, th Thursday night game was like trying to ride "see-saw" by yourself.

HOU-TEX
12-28-2011, 04:11 PM
The officiating was pretty bad, but imo, the entire game was bad. Offense, defense and coaching. I was more miffed about the 3 straight running plays our last REAL possession. Yes, I wanted to run, run and run some more in this game, but a TD puts the game away. At least get a little creative when opting to run it on 3rd and 5.

Defensively, we gave up two 3rd and longs on their TD drive. A Watt hands to the face penalty (legit), a Watt roughing the QB penalty (crappy call) and a Quin pass interference (legit) topped their game winning drive.

Texecutioner
12-28-2011, 04:17 PM
I guess you can be disappointed if you wish and I am not alleging any conspiracy or bias. But that was crappy officiating plain and simple. I said the Texans played like crap as well. But even playing crappy they would have won but for incredibly bad officiating.

And yes the officiating being incredibly bad has been commented on even though league rules prevent players and coaches from commenting on it.

Questionable calls helped the Colts at key moments for sure, but that was certainly not "why we lost." It played a factor, but what played a factor the most was not allowing enough time for Yates on certain pass plays, Kubiak not opening up the offense a little more and especially on 3rd down, and our defense not holding their offense at the end of the game. The defense had a difficult task on their hands in that game though by being on the field as much as they were.

Double Barrel
12-28-2011, 04:23 PM
Questionable calls helped the Colts at key moments for sure, but that was certainly not "why we lost." It played a factor, but what played a factor the most was not allowing enough time for Yates on certain pass plays, Kubiak not opening up the offense a little more and especially on 3rd down, and our defense not holding their offense at the end of the game. The defense had a difficult task on their hands in that game though by being on the field as much as they were.

I refuse to blame the refs when this team failed to get a 3rd down conversion until the fourth quarter, and that was on one of those loony NFL Films bouncing ball mishaps.

I certainly understand the ref argument, so I'm not being obtuse. I'm just not going to say that is the reason why the Texans lost. A factor...perhaps, but there is clear evidence that supports the penalties. The NFL is not afraid to admit that they were wrong in a call, and I have yet to read their admittance for that game.

Just a difference of opinion, though. As always, respectfully agree to disagree in the end. :howdy:

ObsiWan
12-28-2011, 04:27 PM
Bill Parcells career regular season record as a Head coach without Bill Belichick on his staff is 55-57. His record with him is 117-73. His post-season record without him is 0-3. With him, it's 11-5 and includes two Super Bowl victories, a third Super Bowl appearance, and another appearance in the AFC Championship Game.

I'm not concerned with who you like, or what you (and I) think should have happened after last season or after 2009. If the partnership is working, enjoy it and relax. Someday - for whatever reason - it will either stop working, or cease to exist. Worry about that when the time comes.
:goodpost:
Folks have been saying this in one way or another since the second page of this thread.

Can we quit this now?

ObsiWan
12-28-2011, 04:52 PM
& the bolded is why this thread was silly to begin with & should've been closed 3 days ago. When all things are taken into account, neither of these guys is any more valuable than the other. The sum of the parts is greater than the individual parts themselves.

Offensive minded individuals could look at 3 of our losses and put most of the blame on the defense.

Defensive minded individuals could look at 3 of our losses and put most of the blame on the offense.

If you can't be objective, then it really just comes down to your perspective.

That's it in a nutshell.
MSR

Playoffs
12-28-2011, 08:58 PM
That's it in a nutshell.
MSR
Got him for you.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2011, 09:06 PM
SWEET!!! This thread is still alive!!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NMf99tXHLD8/To7of20cSiI/AAAAAAAAAIU/jfNamrNjvQc/s1600/young_frankenstein1.jpg

AND, I agree with ObsiWan (and I quote):

The sum of the parts is greater than the individual parts themselves.

Wolf
12-28-2011, 09:16 PM
bottom line

the offense sucked and the defense ran out of gas being the offense couldn't stay on the field and the defense was on a long time (we knew that in the 2nd quarter)


this is a high motor defense and they have to have their rest.. they were still getting after Dan O but he was just stepping up and avoiding them


but also.. it freaking hurts when a defense has a 3rd down and then with a penalty , it gives the offense a first down... I don't know how many times that happened against the colts but they were game changing calls there

hell Kubiak sent in 6-7 penalties to the league office.. I am waiting to hear what became of that (besides the ole...."they made a mistake...sorry")

gary
12-28-2011, 09:25 PM
In hindsihght i was done with gary two years ago. So what gives?

Nitrofish
12-28-2011, 09:31 PM
DB has been a strong member of this site for years and anyone in here would vouch for him as far as how dedicated he's been as a fan here, so knock it off with the "You need to support this team" rhetoric. If you don't like to hear DB or other folks giving their opinions on this board, than leave.

Why don't you stop telling other people what to feel like whether it's about a coach, a player, an owner, or so on. Stop telling other fans what to think or feel just because you believe in being a homer at all costs and will support every decision by this franchise unconditionally. And for crying out loud quit telling people to support this team as if they aren't die hard fans already. You come off really stupid by telling die hard fans that when they're obviously highly invested in this team or they wouldn't be in here talking about it. Several members in here have explained this obvious part to you, but you aren't capable of understanding that, because you don't want to. You're so hell bent on trying to tell others what they should feel about Kubiak that you aren't capable of a rationale conversation at this point. Pretty soon you'll find that people won't be responding to near as many of your posts, because they'll have you on ignore honestly. No one cares to continually hear someone spew venom because they're butt hurt over their favorite HC being criticized. We're Texans fans, and we root for this franchise. You come off more like a "Kubiak fan" rather than a Texan fan in my observations thus far.

See now you are putting words in my mouth. Please re read my posts and then quote me here where I say that Kubiak is this great coach. And it is you who is telling people what to think not me.

My whole point is that the Kubiak bashing is not constructive or warranted at this point A. because we are 10-5, AFC South Champion and going to the Playoffs for the first time, and B. because as I stated earlier with the a fore mentioned success, Kubiak is not going anywhere anytime soon so why keep wasting time on that topic and talk about football.

In regards to people putting me on ignore... Hey that is their right and I welcome that if that is what they want. It will not hurt my feelings nor will it cause me to lose any sleep. Clearly you are the one who has the most problem with me, and I suggest that you take your own advice and put me on ignore.

I am not challenging how strong a member or how long DB has been a member here. I can read his stats and do not need anyone pointing that out to me. I respect him as I do all the members on this board. Sadly though based on your comments it does not seem to go both ways though.

I am not the one calling people names like a little Jr. High School kid. I am simply stating my opinion just like the rest of you. I am just really tired of the Kubiak Bashing, and finally said something.

I am far from a homer and believe there is a time for criticism, but just before our first ever playoff run is not that time.

Nitrofish
12-28-2011, 09:37 PM
What did y'all do? Go ahead and run Nitrofish out of here??

************************

DB, I agree with Cak here.

I'm generally one that won't criticize the officiating and generally thinks work out to be even. That said, th Thursday night game was like trying to ride "see-saw" by yourself.

Sorry Bill but that is not going to happen. I currently live overseas and am half a day ahead of you guys so that is why I am not here when most of you are.

That is why some of my responses are shotgun like that, for which I apologize, but very few are awake when I am replying to break up my posts.

I agree also about the officiating and like you NEVER do that, but in this case it was so glaring that you cannot help but say something. The Texans had the game in the bag, and the refs took it out and handed it to the Colts.

thunderkyss
12-28-2011, 09:41 PM
In hine sihght i was done with gary two years ago. So what gives?

W-Ls are important. They're most important.

Building a team is very important as well. If you've ever been a team leader, you know this. You can't just throw a bunch of guys in a room, call them a team. In that case, all you have is a bunch of guys who work together.

I mentioned before how amazing I think Gary has done in building a real team here in Houston. They didn't have a lot of wins, but man for man they communicated the same message time & time again. To me, that shows control of the locker room, which a lot of "coaches" simply don't have.

The way the team has never quit & the way they seem to appear to continue to buy what Kubiak is selling are other hints that he is doing something very well that few coaches are able to do.

Still don't equal wins, & wins are most important.

But ever since Kubiak got here, I (for some reason) had illusions of a dynasty.

So far, everything I've seen in the last 5.9 years has me thinking that we have a very, very solid foundation of a dynasty.

Is this a dynasty?

I don't know. But I'm anxious to see how this year turns out & next (we all know he's going to be here). If we go far (which we know by all counts we'll be lucky to get out of the first round) both this year & next (If I were McNair I wouldn't extend Kubiak's contract until we lock up a play-off spot next season) then I think we'll be on our way to a pretty good start.

gary
12-28-2011, 10:11 PM
So far it is not a dynasty.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2011, 10:29 PM
DUDE, This SUCKS... I have now typed out two compelling arguments to NitroPuh-Ce errrrrrrrrrrrr, Nitrofish only to ***** myself!!!


Someone tell homeboy that we all appreciate his fanhood, BUT

A) I'm a Kubiak fan, but I ain't askeered to call him out!
B) Bob McNair is a great owner and we thank him for a new team.
That said, he hamstrung his own team with bad hires (I dont believe Kubiak is a bad hire)...

Nitrofish should be lucky I'm drunk!!!

Nitrofish
12-28-2011, 10:35 PM
DUDE, This SUCKS... I have now typed out two compelling arguments to NitroPuh-Ce errrrrrrrrrrrr, Nitrofish only to ***** myself!!!


Someone tell homeboy that we all appreciate his fanhood, BUT

A) I'm a Kubiak fan, but I ain't askeered to call him out!
B) Bob McNair is a great owner and we thank him for a new team.
That said, he hamstrung his own team with bad hires (I dont believe Kubiak is a bad hire)...

Nitrofish should be lucky I'm drunk!!!

Well some more grown up posts from the drunks... How kewl.

The other thing I find humorous is the hypocritical nature of these Kubiak Haters posts.

It's 100% OK in their mind as armchair atheletes to criticize or 2nd guess Kubiak, but I should not dare question or criticize them.

HJam72
12-28-2011, 11:19 PM
So far it is not a dynasty.

Maybe to Miami. :)

DBCooper
12-28-2011, 11:44 PM
SWEET!!! This thread is still alive!!!

AND, I agree with ObsiWan (and I quote):


The sum of the parts is greater than the individual parts themselves.



No, the sum of Wade's parts are greater than the sum of Kubiak's parts!

Or put another way, Nitrofish's fanhood is greater than your manhood!


I blame gary for this mess, he owes us pics of a hot chick!

steelbtexan
12-28-2011, 11:48 PM
No, the sum of Wade's parts are greater than the sum of Kubiak's parts!

Or put another way, Nitrofish's fanhood is greater than your manhood!


I blame gary for this mess, he owes us pics of a hot chick!

1.True
2.True
3. Gary bring on the hot chick pics.

Nitrofish
12-29-2011, 12:07 AM
3. Gary bring on the hot chick pics.

Finally something we can all agree on! :clap:

Mr teX
12-29-2011, 08:13 AM
Questionable calls helped the Colts at key moments for sure, but that was certainly not "why we lost." It played a factor, but what played a factor the most was not allowing enough time for Yates on certain pass plays, Kubiak not opening up the offense a little more and especially on 3rd down, and our defense not holding their offense at the end of the game. The defense had a difficult task on their hands in that game though by being on the field as much as they were.

The last drive aside, i know at least 1 of those bogus calls were the chief reason the colts got to put at least 3 pts on the board. That's the difference in the game right there. Then when you factor all the other junk calls/no calls in it just gets ridiculous. So yeah, we could've played better, but the refs did their best to keep us from winning that game.

Also, the bolded makes zero sense. If by opening up the offense more you mean going down field more & running 5 wides & the like, how was that supposed to happen & them be successful when you already acknowledge the OL couldn't even protect Yates running more fortified sets? The guy got sacked on a 3 step drop for christ sakes. All the above was gonna do was get him lit up even more or have him creating turnovers via the sack fumble (which freeney & Mathis specialize in) or throwing a pick...like he did against Carolina.

Texecutioner
12-29-2011, 11:25 AM
The last drive aside, i know at least 1 of those bogus calls were the chief reason the colts got to put at least 3 pts on the board. That's the difference in the game right there. Then when you factor all the other junk calls/no calls in it just gets ridiculous. So yeah, we could've played better, but the refs did their best to keep us from winning that game.

Also, the bolded makes zero sense. If by opening up the offense more you mean going down field more & running 5 wides & the like, how was that supposed to happen & them be successful when you already acknowledge the OL couldn't even protect Yates running more fortified sets? The guy got sacked on a 3 step drop for christ sakes. All the above was gonna do was get him lit up even more or have him creating turnovers via the sack fumble (which freeney & Mathis specialize in) or throwing a pick...like he did against Carolina.

Well fine then, so you're suggesting that it was impossible to throw down the field because you're O line is complete **** than is what you're saying and you can't even trust them at all. Is that where we're at now, because I remember all year hearing this O line get a lot of praise. When you're trying to win a game you have to have some confidence in your team to make plays. You're talking as if it was a given that it would have been a sack if Yates would have been able to throw down the field. Sorry, but that's exactly what I'm talking about when people say "playing to lose" and playing like a "turtle." And I was referring more to Kubiak's turtle approach of running the ball on 3rd down when you need a first down. That's always pathetic. Throw the damn ball and give your offense a chance to move the chains. By running the ball you're essentially saying that we're going to punt and try to let our defense win this game for us. Unless your offense is inside their own 5 on 3rd down I'll never excuse running the ball on 3rd and long.

Texan_Bill
12-29-2011, 11:36 AM
I blame gary for this mess, he owes us pics of a hot chick!

Damn skippy!

Runner
12-29-2011, 12:32 PM
Well fine then, so you're suggesting that it was impossible to throw down the field because you're O line is complete **** than is what you're saying and you can't even trust them at all. Is that where we're at now, because I remember all year hearing this O line get a lot of praise. When you're trying to win a game you have to have some confidence in your team to make plays. You're talking as if it was a given that it would have been a sack if Yates would have been able to throw down the field. Sorry, but that's exactly what I'm talking about when people say "playing to lose" and playing like a "turtle." And I was referring more to Kubiak's turtle approach of running the ball on 3rd down when you need a first down. That's always pathetic. Throw the damn ball and give your offense a chance to move the chains. By running the ball you're essentially saying that we're going to punt and try to let our defense win this game for us. Unless your offense is inside their own 5 on 3rd down I'll never excuse running the ball on 3rd and long.

Yep. It's the difference between the offense "imposing its will" and "taking what the defense gives them".

GP
12-29-2011, 12:46 PM
I do wonder what would happen IF the next draft was almost exclusively OFFENSE and Gary got to cherry pick a lot of WRs, TEs, RBs, whatever was best available in each round. Maybe RIGHT TACKLE should be factored in, as well.

He essentially got ONE pick in the previous draft (TJ Yates) and by golly he might not have hit a home run with Yates (yet) but it has been a good plug for the leaking ship known as Texans QB.

Imagine if we did some draft day wheeling and dealing and got Blackmon from Oklahoma State? Kid is the best version of Andre Johnson that's available right now, IMO. Let the Colts have Andrew Luck...I think we could get our Andre Johnson version 2.0 and do better than their Peyton Manning version 2.0

Just weighing in on this scuffle between who is more valuable. I'd like to see Kubiak go balls to the wall in the next draft. If that means shedding some weight off our roster, such as Jacoby Jones gets released and even maybe a sign and trade of Mario Williams to then also couple maybe another big draft pick to get into Blackmon range, I'm game for that. Wade Phillips can identify talent, folks. I don't think Mario Williams and his contract, and his play overall, are as valuable to us as getting some HUGE playmaking ability in a WR.

AJ is declining. Let's not make the same mistake the Colts made with sticking with Manning longer than they should have. Right? I'm not getting personal on Mario here. It's just business. And to me, business dictates that the run we had with Mario was great...but this is a league for the young, and there's a WR out there in this draft class that I think could grow into AJ version 2.0. We need more firepower on offense.

ObsiWan
12-29-2011, 01:02 PM
SWEET!!! This thread is still alive!!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NMf99tXHLD8/To7of20cSiI/AAAAAAAAAIU/jfNamrNjvQc/s1600/young_frankenstein1.jpg

AND, I agree with ObsiWan (and I quote):

I can't take credit for that one. It was Mr.teX
& the bolded is why this thread was silly to begin with & should've been closed 3 days ago. When all things are taken into account, neither of these guys is any more valuable than the other. The sum of the parts is greater than the individual parts themselves.

Offensive minded individuals could look at 3 of our losses and put most of the blame on the defense.

Defensive minded individuals could look at 3 of our losses and put most of the blame on the offense.

If you can't be objective, then it really just comes down to your perspective.

that's the answer.

And gary said on page two, he didn't want either Wade or Kubiak as head coach.

I would not want Wade as HC but Gary should be shown the door along with Rick.

There are no conditions on that statement. I read that to say he wants Kubiak and Rick Smith gone now and Wade Phillips would not be an acceptable replacement.

If that's not what you meant, please clarify. And if it is, sobeit. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I may argue with you but I won't belittle or begrudge you, or anyone else, just because we differ.

That's just bad form.
;)

Texan_Bill
12-29-2011, 01:10 PM
I can't take credit for that one. It was Mr.teX



********************

That's just bad form.
;)

All Credit to MrTex, then.

********************

Form not often practiced here. :D

ObsiWan
12-29-2011, 01:11 PM
No, the sum of Wade's parts are greater than the sum of Kubiak's parts!

Or put another way, Nitrofish's fanhood is greater than your manhood!


I blame gary for this mess, he owes us pics of a hot chick!

Wait...
what??

how do you know whose parts are...

...never mind
:backsout:

thunderkyss
12-29-2011, 01:11 PM
And I was referring more to Kubiak's turtle approach of running the ball on 3rd down when you need a first down. That's always pathetic. Throw the damn ball and give your offense a chance to move the chains. By running the ball you're essentially saying that we're going to punt and try to let our defense win this game for us. Unless your offense is inside their own 5 on 3rd down I'll never excuse running the ball on 3rd and long.

There were 4 instances when we were third & long & ran the ball.

1) I think was our first 3rd & 14. We opted to run the draw. I didn't have a problem with running a draw at that time. I've heard many times when our fans wonder why we don't run more draws & screens. Granted, they probably weren't talking about 3rd & 14..... but I've seen the draw ran hundreds of times in this same situation, so I had no problem with it here.

2) After one of the nastier sacks, we were 3rd & 9 (I think) we ran the ball again out of the shotgun. The defense was spread out, we had a 5 on 5 situation up front (on the OL) you'd think we would be able to get a big run given that we've got the best running back in the league & possibly the best OL.

3) The last 3rd & long situation. Indy started using their time outs with 3:26 left in the game. They had just used their last time out & we were 26 seconds away from the 2 minute warning. I think he ran the ball there, to get us to the 2 minute warning...... then we kicked a field goal.

4) I did not locate & watch the fourth instance, so I really don't know.

The other 6 times we were in 3rd & long, we threw the ball... didn't get anything out of it. But I'm sure there was at least 1 receiver who ran a deep route I don't think he was ever targeted. Tj hit the shorter crossing routes.

I know when people think of 13-16 that it sounds like we did not attempt to throw the ball very much. But if you look at it in perspective, Arian ran the ball 23 times. If you add the 4 sacks as pass attempts, Tj dropped back to throw the ball 20 times. We simply did not have the number of snaps as every body thinks we did.

There were also 6 runs by Tate & the reverse, so that's another 7 plays that we did not throw the ball. Maybe we should have thrown the ball another 7 times. I don't know.

But I really think this "no faith in Yates" thing is being blown out of proportion.

thunderkyss
12-29-2011, 01:14 PM
I do wonder what would happen IF the next draft was almost exclusively OFFENSE and Gary got to cherry pick a lot of WRs, TEs, RBs, whatever was best available in each round. Maybe RIGHT TACKLE should be factored in, as well.


I think this team would go to another level all together if we draft two receivers that bumps KDub down to the 4th receiver. Straight up cut Jacoby or keep him for punt returns only.

gary
12-29-2011, 01:15 PM
In the mind of Nitrofish no one should ever have an opinion or criticise anyone ever. Is that right?

Texan_Bill
12-29-2011, 01:17 PM
Wait...
what??

how do you know whose parts are...

...never mind
:backsout:

Must be friends with Rich Lord...

[On Vince Young going to the NFL Draft] "Have you seen the size of Vince Young's package?"

:facepalm: Ritch Lord!

GP
12-29-2011, 01:22 PM
I think this team would go to another level all together if we draft two receivers that bumps KDub down to the 4th receiver. Straight up cut Jacoby or keep him for punt returns only.

Yup.

And let me save you the contemplation on Jacoby. He needs to go bye-bye. And I was one of his staunchest supporters this summer. He is unreliable in route running, a factor that was magnified once we lost AJ and JJ had to step into a more prominent role out there.

I am concerned about QB, though. You can have a great WR and he can be neutralized if the QB can't get him the ball. Is Yates the future? I'm not so sure right now. He needs a full camp and reps as #1 or #2 with starters. He needs more preseason games. He needs more regular season games. Is he an Aaron Rodgers type prospect? I don't know. Then again, I always thought Aaron Rodgers to be a risky move by the Packers...and all he did was rise up and win a title with them.

This offense, via AJ and Schaub injuries, has to have adequate players at those two positions or we'll be a second-tier AFC team that is always knocking on the door of "elite" upper-tier AFC team status. IMO.

DBCooper
12-29-2011, 01:24 PM
In the mind of Nitrofish no one should ever have an opinion or criticise anyone ever. Is that right?

Rah! Rah! Sisk Boom bah!

Kick em in the shin! Kick em in the craw!

gary
12-29-2011, 01:30 PM
I would draft the best receiver available or even move up to get a good one.

ObsiWan
12-29-2011, 01:32 PM
There were 4 instances when we were third & long & ran the ball.

1) I think was our first 3rd & 14. We opted to run the draw. I didn't have a problem with running a draw at that time. I've heard many times when our fans wonder why we don't run more draws & screens. Granted, they probably weren't talking about 3rd & 14..... but I've seen the draw ran hundreds of times in this same situation, so I had no problem with it here.

2) After one of the nastier sacks, we were 3rd & 9 (I think) we ran the ball again out of the shotgun. The defense was spread out, we had a 5 on 5 situation up front (on the OL) you'd think we would be able to get a big run given that we've got the best running back in the league & possibly the best OL.

3) The last 3rd & long situation. Indy started using their time outs with 3:26 left in the game. They had just used their last time out & we were 26 seconds away from the 2 minute warning. I think he ran the ball there, to get us to the 2 minute warning...... then we kicked a field goal.

4) I did not locate & watch the fourth instance, so I really don't know.
There was a 3rd & 8 when we were inside the ten. It was the 1st or 2nd possession after the fumble. I think that might have played into the decision not to pass out of the endzone.

Mr teX
12-29-2011, 02:35 PM
Well fine then, so you're suggesting that it was impossible to throw down the field because you're O line is complete **** than is what you're saying and you can't even trust them at all. Is that where we're at now, because I remember all year hearing this O line get a lot of praise. When you're trying to win a game you have to have some confidence in your team to make plays. You're talking as if it was a given that it would have been a sack if Yates would have been able to throw down the field. Sorry, but that's exactly what I'm talking about when people say "playing to lose" and playing like a "turtle." And I was referring more to Kubiak's turtle approach of running the ball on 3rd down when you need a first down. That's always pathetic. Throw the damn ball and give your offense a chance to move the chains. By running the ball you're essentially saying that we're going to punt and try to let our defense win this game for us. Unless your offense is inside their own 5 on 3rd down I'll never excuse running the ball on 3rd and long.

This isn't baseball where the move you make as a manager is pretty much set in stone & is blatantly obvious. There were tons of reasons why that last drive, you do what was done.

#1 the most obvious...you're depending on a 3rd string rookie qb. The mention of that alone should be enough but lets elaborate. Yates has been shaky at best these last 2 games as teams have started to get more tape on him & take away what he likes to do. Do you really want him slinging it around after he just came off a game where he threw 2 picks...1 of which in the red zone? Going further, on that last drive he luckily escaped an int on tipped pass to Walter that wound up in JJ's hands to convert our only 3rd down of the night. Oh, by the way, if you go back & look at that pass, it was horrifically inaccurate......well behind KW & i'm honestly surprised KW even got a hand on it.

#2 Your o-line has been pass blocking pretty pathetic...Winston had already given up a sack fumble (& he had help with a chip from Dressen too) & Caldwell was getting eaten alive in pass & run blocking. That last drive, we were already in FG range at that point...make sure to get the points, don't let anyone screw that up...which leads into reason # 3.


#3 you're already winning the game!!!....barely...but you are winning & you have the #1 ranked defense at your disposal & it has become the strength of your team at this point in the season. what's wrong with Leaning on that?


#4 & people haven't even looked at this....scoring a TD on that last drive or at any time in the 4th likely would've sealed the game (8 out of 10 times) but it doesn't put it out of reach for the colts, so there's no "trying to win the game" argument to even be made here. even if we do score 7 on that last drive, the colts still could've come back to tie it up if they somehow march down the field, score a TD & are successful on a 2 pt. conversion.....but who's thinking that's even possible at this point? They hadn't been in the end zone all game, they have no TO's & they have Dan freakin' Orlovsky at the helm.....Oops.

#5 running the ball wasn't just about going into a shell & trying to run clock to barely get out of there. I think it had more to do with getting the ball in your best playmaker's hands i.e. Arian Foster who'd already run all over the Colts defense to the tune of 100+ yards & a TD. The only thing you can argue here is that he could've done the same thing in the passing game as well.........but is hitting arian on 3 yd. screen plays & square ins really opening the playbook up? Nope, its just a long hand off is all.

#6 Last year after the game monday night against the colts, all we heard from fans is "why did Kubiak only give Arian 5 carries in the 2nd half?" or something to that effect; this was largely based on the well known fact that the Colts couldn't stop the run & Arian was a monster. This year the colts defense is arguably even worse than it was last year & we try to take advantage of that & what do we hear??? "oh, well he should've opened the playbook & passed downfield more.." Are you kidding me?

Honestly, i believe some of you guys don't know if you're coming or going.

Double Barrel
12-29-2011, 02:58 PM
I do wonder what would happen IF the next draft was almost exclusively OFFENSE and Gary got to cherry pick a lot of WRs, TEs, RBs, whatever was best available in each round. Maybe RIGHT TACKLE should be factored in, as well.

He essentially got ONE pick in the previous draft (TJ Yates) and by golly he might not have hit a home run with Yates (yet) but it has been a good plug for the leaking ship known as Texans QB.

Imagine if we did some draft day wheeling and dealing and got Blackmon from Oklahoma State? Kid is the best version of Andre Johnson that's available right now, IMO. Let the Colts have Andrew Luck...I think we could get our Andre Johnson version 2.0 and do better than their Peyton Manning version 2.0

Just weighing in on this scuffle between who is more valuable. I'd like to see Kubiak go balls to the wall in the next draft. If that means shedding some weight off our roster, such as Jacoby Jones gets released and even maybe a sign and trade of Mario Williams to then also couple maybe another big draft pick to get into Blackmon range, I'm game for that. Wade Phillips can identify talent, folks. I don't think Mario Williams and his contract, and his play overall, are as valuable to us as getting some HUGE playmaking ability in a WR.

AJ is declining. Let's not make the same mistake the Colts made with sticking with Manning longer than they should have. Right? I'm not getting personal on Mario here. It's just business. And to me, business dictates that the run we had with Mario was great...but this is a league for the young, and there's a WR out there in this draft class that I think could grow into AJ version 2.0. We need more firepower on offense.

Good post. I think they need to spend some picks on offense next draft, as well. Especially WR and RT.

I hated that Jacoby was re-signed. But, I think they stick with him for at least another year. I will never understand the love affair that they seem to have for him, but it is what it is. Their tendencies have indicated that they always give these type of players the so-called 'benefit of the doubt', and Jones will be no exception to their M.O.

Regarding Andre, he will retire as a Texan. I have absolutely no doubt of this, and McNair will keep him as long as AJ wants to be on the team. Hopefully his worth ethic, often compared to Jerry Rice's, is something that allows him to be productive until his late 30's. And this is just my perception, but I don't think he's got the normal WR ego that puts self ahead of team. So when the time comes for him to step to no. 2 because our new stud bull is hitting his prime, I honestly think he'd do it for the franchise. I could be wrong...dude doesn't tip, you know. (hehe)

Well some more grown up posts from the drunks... How kewl.

I see you like to poke the bear. Funny that you would tag this forum as the "most elitist" that you have ever lurked, but then you join and immediately start talking down to long time members that helped build and make this place what is is today.

Texan Bill is a solid dude and someone that many of us consider a friend. You will not meet a nicer guy at a tailgate or a bigger Texans fan.

See, this forum has something interesting going in that it's not a typical internet message board. We know each other in real life. We hold each other accountable simply because we know and see each other and respect each other.

I have no idea if you have any desire to form true friendships with other Texans fans on this forum. That's your business. But many of us have each other's backs, regardless of how much we might argue and debate around here. In the end, we respect each other, and that is something earned, not bestowed.

It's 100% OK in their mind as armchair atheletes to criticize or 2nd guess Kubiak, but I should not dare question or criticize them.

None of us play the games, make personnel decisions, or call plays. We are merely fans. We react. And we get together on this board to chat about what happened and what might happen, what we perceive, and what we would like or dislike to see.

So yeah, criticism and/or analysis of any given aspect of the Houston Texans is the reason this board exists. Not to gossip or talk trash about each other (unless it's in obvious jest, of course. We do like to have fun with it). If disrespecting people is your thing, perhaps the muddy swampland of the official board is more for you.

There is a reason most of us hang out here. This used to be the official board until the corporate overlords decided otherwise. Through the owner and members of the original Texans Talk and their very gracious invitation, the history migrated here. Perhaps you have no desire for a history lesson. Just comprehend that relationships are deep around these parts, and while we always welcome new folks and outsiders, we can also circle the wagons when required.

In the mind of Nitrofish no one should ever have an opinion or criticise anyone ever. Is that right?

There is blood in the water... http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn133/Rogue_Mike/th_thshark.gif

This isn't baseball where the move you make as a manager is pretty much set in stone & is blatantly obvious. There were tons of reasons why that last drive, you do what was done.

#1 the most obvious...you're depending on a 3rd string rookie qb. The mention of that alone should be enough but lets elaborate. Yates has been shaky at best these last 2 games as teams have started to get more tape on him & take away what he likes to do. Do you really want him slinging it around after he just came off a game where he threw 2 picks...1 of which in the red zone? Going further, on that last drive he luckily escaped an int on tipped pass to Walter that wound up in JJ's hands to convert our only 3rd down of the night. Oh, by the way, if you go back & look at that pass, it was horrifically inaccurate......well behind KW & i'm honestly surprised KW even got a hand on it.

#2 Your o-line has been pass blocking pretty pathetic...Winston had already given up a sack fumble (& he had help with a chip from Dressen too) & Caldwell was getting eaten alive in pass & run blocking. We were already in FG range at that point...make sure to get the points, don't let anyone screw that up...which leads into reason # 3.


#3 you're already winning the game....barely...but you're winning & your #1 ranked defense at this point in the season is the strength of your team. what's wrong with Leaning on that?


#4 & people haven't even looked at this.... scoring a TD would've likely sealed the game but even if we do score 7 on that last drive, the colts still could've come back to tie it up if they somehow march down the field, score a TD & are successful on a 2 pt. conversion.....but who's thinking that's even possible at this point? They hadn't seen the end zone all day, they have no TO's & they have Dan freakin' Orlovsky at the helm.....Oops.

#5 running the ball wasn't just about going into a shell & trying to run clock to barely get out of there. I think it had more to do with get the ball in your best playmaker's hands i.e. Arian Foster who'd already run all over the Colts defense to the tune of 100+ yards & a TD. The only thing you can argue here is that he could've done the same thing in the passing game as well.........but is hitting arian on 3 yd. screen plays & square ins really opening the playbook up? Nope, its just a long hand off is all.

#6 Last year after the game monday night against the colts, all we heard from fans is "why did Kubiak only give Arian 5 carries in the 2nd half?" or something to that effect; this was largely based on the well known fact that the Colts couldn't stop the run & Arian was a monster. This year the colts defense is arguably even worse than it was last year & we try to take advantage of that & what do we hear??? "oh, well he should've opened the playbook & passed downfield more.." Are you kidding me?

Honestly, i believe some of you guys don't know if you're coming or going.

Good takes. However, I think the problem with putting shackles on Yates last game was that it seemed to undermine what he appeared to be in his two wins. He engineered late game drives, and obviously the game against the Bengals will cement his legacy as a Texan regardless of what happens to his career after this point.

Mr teX
12-29-2011, 03:07 PM
Good post. I think they need to spend some picks on offense next draft, as well. Especially WR and RT.

I hated that Jacoby was re-signed. But, I think they stick with him for at least another year. I will never understand the love affair that they seem to have for him, but it is what it is. Their tendencies have indicated that they always give these type of players the so-called 'benefit of the doubt', and Jones will be no exception to their M.O.

Regarding Andre, he will retire as a Texan. I have absolutely no doubt of this, and McNair will keep him as long as AJ wants to be on the team. Hopefully his worth ethic, often compared to Jerry Rice's, is something that allows him to be productive until his late 30's. And this is just my perception, but I don't think he's got the normal WR ego that puts self ahead of team. So when the time comes for him to step to no. 2 because our new stud bull is hitting his prime, I honestly think he'd do it for the franchise. I could be wrong...dude doesn't tip, you know. (hehe)



I see you like to poke the bear. Funny that you would tag this forum as the "most elitist" that you have ever lurked, but then you join and immediately start talking down to long time members that helped build and make this place what is is today.

Texan Bill is a solid dude and someone that many of us consider a friend. You will not meet a nicer guy at a tailgate or a bigger Texans fan.

See, this forum has something interesting going in that it's not a typical internet message board. We know each other in real life. We hold each other accountable simply because we know and see each other and respect each other.

I have no idea if you have any desire to form true friendships with other Texans fans on this forum. That's your business. But many of us have each other's backs, regardless of how much we might argue and debate around here. In the end, we respect each other, and that is something earned, not bestowed.



None of us play the games, make personnel decisions, or call plays. We are merely fans. We react. And we get together on this board to chat about what happened and what might happen, what we perceive, and what we would like or dislike to see.

So yeah, criticism and/or analysis of any given aspect of the Houston Texans is the reason this board exists. Not to gossip or talk trash about each other (unless it's in obvious jest, of course. We do like to have fun with it). If disrespecting people is your thing, perhaps the muddy swampland of the official board is more for you.

There is a reason most of us hang out here. This used to be the official board until the corporate overlords decided otherwise. Through the owner and members of the original Texans Talk and their very gracious invitation, the history migrated here. Perhaps you have no desire for a history lesson. Just comprehend that relationships are deep around these parts, and while we always welcome new folks and outsiders, we can also circle the wagons when required.



There is blood in the water... http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn133/Rogue_Mike/th_thshark.gif



Good takes. However, I think the problem with putting shackles on Yates last game was that it seemed to undermine what he appeared to be in his two wins. He engineered late game drives, and obviously the game against the Bengals will cement his legacy as a Texan regardless of what happens to his career after this point.

Yeah, but we also don't know how much TJ is shakling himself either. As i've said in other posts , there were clearly times when Yates could've thrown it deep.....or at least deeper than he wound up throwing it, but after his performance in the Carolina game, i wonder if he's starting not to trust what he sees more than he did in the 1st 2 games.

In regards to the bolded....sure, I'm thinking Chris Burke NLCS status for TJ, what do you think?

Double Barrel
12-29-2011, 03:29 PM
Yeah, but we also don't know how much TJ is shakling himself either. As i've said in other posts , there were clearly times when Yates could've thrown it deep.....or at least deeper than he wound up throwing it, but after his performance in the Carolina game, i wonder if he's starting not to trust what he sees more than he did in the 1st 2 games.

In regards to the bolded....sure, I'm thinking Chris Burke NLCS status for TJ, what do you think?

yeah, true about TJ. We can only speculate if it's the coaches or his own rookieness showing up out there. With a couple of game films on him, no doubt that Carolina and Indy both set their defenses up to exploit his weaknesses accordingly.

The Colts game was weird, because he seemed to lock on to the dump pass pretty quickly at times. Again, we do not know if this is by design or just him getting jumpy with it. I hate to say it, but it sorta' reminded me of David Carr with the dink and dunks. Hard to keep drives alive expecting your receivers to make up all the required yards.

He mostly did three step drops, iirc. That does not lend itself to a deep game. Just not enough time. Perhaps it was a combination of both coaching and player tendency?

Hopefully, AJ will return and open up part of this offense. Defenses have to respect him, even hobbled, and dude's hands aren't hurt. That could really help TJ.

Good comparison with Chris Burke. TJ might end up a starter after Schaub, or he could be like Bucky Richardson with the Oilers back in the day. Immensely popular with fans, but that does not translate to gameday performance.

Texecutioner
12-29-2011, 03:37 PM
"elitism"...BWAHAHAHAHA!! You're a funny dude. What a joke.




I see you like to poke the bear. Funny that you would tag this forum as the "most elitist" that you have ever lurked, but then you join and immediately start talking down to long time members that helped build and make this place what is is today.



I tried to rep you earlier, but yeah that "elitism" accusation was hilarious. Lol!!


I think Wagon head, I mean Nitrofish needs to get a better idea of what that word means. That is definitely not a word I ever would have thought anyone would have described this place as. Maybe a little nutty, but as elitism?? That was a chuckle. Lol!

Double Barrel
12-29-2011, 03:48 PM
I tried to rep you earlier, but yeah that "elitism" accusation was hilarious. Lol!!


I think Wagon head, I mean Nitrofish needs to get a better idea of what that word means. That is definitely not a word I ever would have thought anyone would have described this place as. Maybe a little nutty, but as elitism?? That was a chuckle. Lol!

That's just it. I think Texans fans in this forum are some of the most down-to-earth, self-deprecating folks around. Seriously, for all the arguments/debates and smack talked around here in the heat of the moment and emotion of the seasons, I have yet to meet someone in person from this forum that I did not enjoy their company and appreciate the friendship.

If you want to see a truly elitist board, go check out the Patriots. I love watching this team, but joining their forum and expecting any kind of friendly vibe to a noob? Fahgetaboutit! They made fun of me for being a Texans fan! (I didn't care, though. Ain't nothin' but a thang.)

Texan_Bill
12-29-2011, 03:54 PM
That's just it. I think Texans fans in this forum are some of the most down-to-earth, self-deprecating folks around. Seriously, for all the arguments/debates and smack talked around here in the heat of the moment and emotion of the seasons, I have yet to meet someone in person from this forum that I did not enjoy their company and appreciate the friendship.

If you want to see a truly elitist board, go check out the Patriots. I love watching this team, but joining their forum and expecting any kind of friendly vibe to a noob? Fahgetaboutit! They made fun of me for being a Texans fan! (I didn't care, though. Ain't nothin' but a thang.)

I'm so dumb I don't even know what the bolded means. :headhurts:

Texecutioner
12-29-2011, 04:00 PM
That's just it. I think Texans fans in this forum are some of the most down-to-earth, self-deprecating folks around. Seriously, for all the arguments/debates and smack talked around here in the heat of the moment and emotion of the seasons, I have yet to meet someone in person from this forum that I did not enjoy their company and appreciate the friendship.

If you want to see a truly elitist board, go check out the Patriots. I love watching this team, but joining their forum and expecting any kind of friendly vibe to a noob? Fahgetaboutit! They made fun of me for being a Texans fan! (I didn't care, though. Ain't nothin' but a thang.)

Holy ****, that is so funny, because you know that I'm a die hard Pats fan after my Texans and I recently joined a Pats board, and I had the exact same thing happen to me. I got made fun of for being a Texans fan even when I expressed how much I was a Pats and Brady fan. I was even called a "Jets fan troll" for criticizing certain moves by BB whom I think is the best HC of all time. What forum is it that you went to??? We might need to link up on one of those, because I know you're a Pats fan as well.

I still post on this other Pats forum here and there, but it definitely made me appreciate this forum a lot more. I get a lot of extra Pats info over there though. I go to Patsfans.com. Where are you at?

Double Barrel
12-29-2011, 04:40 PM
I'm so dumb I don't even know what the bolded means. :headhurts:

lol! :lol:

Funny enough, the spell check tried to put in "self defecating" because I misspelled it, which sort of changed the nature of my post. :D

Holy ****, that is so funny, because you know that I'm a die hard Pats fan after my Texans and I recently joined a Pats board, and I had the exact same thing happen to me. I got made fun of for being a Texans fan even when I expressed how much I was a Pats and Brady fan. I was even called a "Jets fan troll" for criticizing certain moves by BB whom I think is the best HC of all time. What forum is it that you went to??? We might need to link up on one of those, because I know you're a Pats fan as well.

I still post on this other Pats forum here and there, but it definitely made me appreciate this forum a lot more. I get a lot of extra Pats info over there though. I go to Patsfans.com. Where are you at?

yep, same forum, patsfan.com. Some folks are cordial enough, and I did not join to troll. But, some random member with a long history PM'ed me that they have enough bandwagon fans and said something disparaging about Texas. I just laughed, gave him a Texas howdy, and told him that I appreciated the welcome wagon.

I will always be a Texans fan as long as they are a Houston team. But, in our darkest hours, I joined just to feel the vibe of a winning team. It's the modern dynasty in the NFL, and they are a well run organization that we have been told McNair wants to model the Texans on. I was hoping for a little football fanatic osmosis, but as you probably know, over there you're just a noob from Texas.

Texan_Bill
12-29-2011, 04:43 PM
lol! :lol:

Funny enough, the spell check tried to put in "self defecating" because I misspelled it, which sort of changed the nature of my post. :D

That term I'm familiar with, in large part because of HOU-TEX.

Double Barrel
12-29-2011, 04:45 PM
That term I'm familiar with, in large part because of HOU-TEX.

I would say that depends.... :boogereater:

gary
12-29-2011, 05:11 PM
Holy ****, that is so funny, because you know that I'm a die hard Pats fan after my Texans and I recently joined a Pats board, and I had the exact same thing happen to me. I got made fun of for being a Texans fan even when I expressed how much I was a Pats and Brady fan. I was even called a "Jets fan troll" for criticizing certain moves by BB whom I think is the best HC of all time. What forum is it that you went to??? We might need to link up on one of those, because I know you're a Pats fan as well.

I still post on this other Pats forum here and there, but it definitely made me appreciate this forum a lot more. I get a lot of extra Pats info over there though. I go to Patsfans.com. Where are you at?I guess criticizing anyone really is forbidden in this world.

EllisUnit
12-29-2011, 06:53 PM
So you think Kubiak is more valuable than Wade? There is nothing wrong with this thread, because it speaks the truth.

Would you rather have Wade running the offense our Kubiak, would you have kubiak running the defense or wade. They are both valuble to us. Who cares wade wont replace Kubiak. Wade just needs to remain our D.C till he retires, end thread.

Texecutioner
12-29-2011, 07:02 PM
Would you rather have Wade running the offense our Kubiak, would you have kubiak running the defense or wade. They are both valuble to us. Who cares wade wont replace Kubiak. Wade just needs to remain our D.C till he retires, end thread.

Why do you guys even bring up scenarios that would never happen like that to try and prove some point??? If Wade was a HC, he wouldn't ever be running an offense. There would be some new OC that would be here running that offense, so I don't know why you would even ask about some scenario about whether someone would want Wade to run this offense.

EllisUnit
12-29-2011, 07:23 PM
Why do you guys even bring up scenarios that would never happen like that to try and prove some point??? If Wade was a HC, he wouldn't ever be running an offense. There would be some new OC that would be here running that offense, so I don't know why you would even ask about some scenario about whether someone would want Wade to run this offense.

My point is that Wade is an AWESOME D.C and Kubiak is a good O.C the combo works, we see what happened in dallas u cant do it all alone. It works in reverse If wade was the HC and kubiak was the O.C, it would still be a great combo.

so both are equally valuable.

steelbtexan
12-29-2011, 07:32 PM
I think this team would go to another level all together if we draft two receivers that bumps KDub down to the 4th receiver. Straight up cut Jacoby or keep him for punt returns only.

Yep

I'm hoping the Texans take a WR early rd.1/2 and one late. Plus sign a young vet in FA. Attack a weakness with numbers.

That and draft another CB high in the draft. LOL

Texan_Bill
12-29-2011, 07:46 PM
I would say that depends.... :boogereater:

LMFAO!!! DB you've been "killin' it" lately! That was freakin' hilarious!!!

Alas, MSR!

Texan_Bill
12-29-2011, 07:51 PM
I guess criticizing anyone really is forbidden in this world.

I don't like your "football" hat!! :neener:

:jk: my man! Any news on this year's golf tourney??

Nitrofish
12-29-2011, 08:03 PM
In the mind of Nitrofish no one should ever have an opinion or criticise anyone ever. Is that right?

No that is not right... Your thread is nothing more than another display of your hatred for Kubiak and it could not come at a worse time. Just because the team has lost a few after all they have done, does not warrant more Kubiak bashing.

Were you posting useless threads like this when the Texans were on a 7 game win streak? I mean it seems to me that you are more interested in complaining and 2nd guessing Kubiak than you are in supporting your team during their first ever playoff run.

Norg
12-29-2011, 08:04 PM
Nahhh wade cant teach the offensive they way kubes knows how

Wolf
12-29-2011, 08:09 PM
Kubiak: "You got your peanut butter in my chocolate!"

Phillips: "You got your chocolate in my peanut butter!"

http://thumbs.ifood.tv/files/images/How_To_Make_Reese_Peanut_Butter_Cups_-_easy_steps.jpg

Vinnie
12-29-2011, 08:20 PM
We have two very good coordinators and nary a head coach. It could be worse.

Texan_Bill
12-29-2011, 08:31 PM
No that is not right... Your thread is nothing more than another display of your hatred for Kubiak and it could not come at a worse time. Just because the team has lost a few after all they have done, does not warrant more Kubiak bashing.

Where you posting useless threads like this when the Texans were on a 7 game win streak? I mean it seems to me that you are more interested in complaining and 2nd guessing Kubiak than you are in supporting your team during their first ever playoff run.

Dude.. Seriously quit being a jackass!!! My young man Gary is a fine young man!!! Check yourself:

Gary Lynn Foundation - *****! (http://www.thegaryjlynnfoundation.org/)

thunderkyss
12-29-2011, 08:50 PM
Nahhh wade cant teach the offensive they way kubes knows how

I don't know thr specifics of Wade's other firings. But Dallas, it was obvious he lost that team.

Yeah, the wins are going to weigh heavily on one hand, but the condition of the team he left will weigh heavily in the other.

The teams Wade got fired from. Were they better or worse after Wade left? What did it take to get those teams back on track?

thunderkyss
12-29-2011, 08:51 PM
Dude.. Seriously quit being a jackass!!! My young man Gary is a fine young man!!! Check yourself:

Gary Lynn Foundation - *****! (http://www.thegaryjlynnfoundation.org/)

Doesn't make him immune from doing silly stuff.

steelbtexan
12-29-2011, 09:12 PM
Doesn't make him immune from doing silly stuff.

True,

But although Ihaven't gotten the opportunity to meet Mr. Lynn (I hope to play in his golf tournament) He's one of the greatest people I've met on this MB. Selfless/caring (some people including my self should take notice) kind of people like Gary are very rare in todays society.

Yes, he doesn't think Rick and Kubes are the right people to run the team. That's his opinion and he's entitled to it, just as others think Kubes does no wrong.

Lay off Gary

Nitrofish
12-29-2011, 09:28 PM
I see you like to poke the bear. Funny that you would tag this forum as the "most elitist" that you have ever lurked, but then you join and immediately start talking down to long time members that helped build and make this place what is is today.


So let me get this straight... You consider yourself, and or your little posse "The Bear"? And please enlighten me as to when I talked down to anyone? Was it when I had a differing opinion than this little elite group of yours? Oh and I am pretty sure that more than 5 members of this board made it was it is. Again you make my elitism point.


Texan Bill is a solid dude and someone that many of us consider a friend. You will not meet a nicer guy at a tailgate or a bigger Texans fan.


Hey I never said he or you for that matter are not nice guys so stop putting words in my mouth. Just because I am tired of hearing the Kubiak bashing does not make me a bad guy.


See, this forum has something interesting going in that it's not a typical internet message board. We know each other in real life. We hold each other accountable simply because we know and see each other and respect each other.


It's my opinion that while you may respect each other, you do not extend that respect to others, especially if they are new and do not belong to your little posse.


I have no idea if you have any desire to form true friendships with other Texans fans on this forum. That's your business. But many of us have each other's backs, regardless of how much we might argue and debate around here. In the end, we respect each other, and that is something earned, not bestowed.


When I return back to Houston early 2012, I of course plan to continue my relationships with friends and family in the Houston area. If some from this message board become friends that is great and I look forward to making new connections and developing new relationships. Respect is a two way street and just because you have been on this message board longer than someone else does not mean anyone should give you respect by default. You have to earn your respect also and to suggest anything else is another display of elitism.


None of us play the games, make personnel decisions, or call plays. We are merely fans. We react. And we get together on this board to chat about what happened and what might happen, what we perceive, and what we would like or dislike to see.

So yeah, criticism and/or analysis of any given aspect of the Houston Texans is the reason this board exists. Not to gossip or talk trash about each other (unless it's in obvious jest, of course. We do like to have fun with it). If disrespecting people is your thing, perhaps the muddy swampland of the official board is more for you.


You know it is funny, it seems to me that you are the one's calling me names
so I would call that trash talking, and disrespectful. If it were in friendly jest I could understand, but it is clear to me that this posse has circled it's wagons in an attempt to bully me, which is a huge waste of your time. Any clear thinking person can read this thread and see it is you and your posse that are name calling and being disrespectful. Oh and the last thing bolded in the quote above is just another example of your name calling and elitism.


There is a reason most of us hang out here. This used to be the official board until the corporate overlords decided otherwise. Through the owner and members of the original Texans Talk and their very gracious invitation, the history migrated here. Perhaps you have no desire for a history lesson. Just comprehend that relationships are deep around these parts, and while we always welcome new folks and outsiders, we can also circle the wagons when required.


Again you assume I am a noob who has never been in Houston or knows anything about this online community. I will ignore that because I know it is another veiled slight of my character based on your assumptions about me.

In regards to corporations you will probably not find anyone who dislikes the corporate world more than me. Having said that, what you have written there shows again that if someone disagrees with you and wants to do things their own way, it warrants name calling.

In regards to your welcome of new people and outsiders as you call them, I do not recall a warm welcome from you, or your posse, so I think you are a bit full of yourself. You have done nothing but name call and make belittling comments and then the rest of your posse chime in with one or two line posts that have nothing to do with the topic just like a bunch of high school kids. Example below. How clever.. no wonder you guys have so many posts. So you are the bear, you are the shark... what else?


There is blood in the water... http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn133/Rogue_Mike/th_thshark.gif


One thing some who read this thread will notice is, that no matter how high and mighty you might think you are, or how respected you think you are, it's a small handful of people who have your back and chime in and slap you on the back when you name call. The rest not so much. This board is for Texans fans, and I am one of them. If you do not like my posts, put me on ignore, but do not try to bully me or think you can run me off.

Texan_Bill
12-29-2011, 09:30 PM
True,

But although Ihaven't gotten the opportunity to meet Mr. Lynn (I hope to play in his golf tournament) He's one of the greatest people I've met on this MB. Selfless/caring (some people including my self should take notice) kind of people like Gary are very rare in todays society.

Yes, he doesn't think Rick and Kubes are the right people to run the team. That's his opinion and he's entitled to it, just as others think Kubes does no wrong.

Lay off Gary

AMEN Brother!!

BTW, you're full of **** on most points!!! ;)

I kid, I kid!!! Fantastic post!!!

Texan_Bill
12-29-2011, 09:38 PM
So let me get this straight... You consider yourself, and or your little posse "The Bear"? And please enlighten me as to when I talked down to anyone? Was it when I had a differing opinion than this little elite group of yours? Oh and I am pretty sure that more than 5 members of this board made it was it is. Again you make my elitism point.



Hey I never said he or you for that matter are not nice guys so stop putting words in my mouth. Just because I am tired of hearing the Kubiak bashing does not make me a bad guy.



It's my opinion that while you may respect each other, you do not extend that respect to others, especially if they are new and do not belong to your little posse.



When I return back to Houston early 2012, I of course plan to continue my relationships with friends and family in the Houston area. If some from this message board become friends that is great and I look forward to making new connections and developing new relationships. Respect is a two way street and just because you have been on this message board longer than someone else does not mean anyone should give you respect by default. You have to earn your respect also and to suggest anything else is another display of elitism.



You know it is funny, it seems to me that you are the one's calling me names
so I would call that trash talking, and disrespectful. If it were in friendly jest I could understand, but it is clear to me that this posse has circled it's wagons in an attempt to bully me, which is a huge waste of your time. Any clear thinking person can read this thread and see it is you and your posse that are name calling and being disrespectful. Oh and the last thing bolded in the quote above is just another example of your name calling and elitism.



Again you assume I am a noob who has never been in Houston or knows anything about this online community. I will ignore that because I know it is another veiled slight of my character based on your assumptions about me.

In regards to corporations you will probably not find anyone who dislikes the corporate world more than me. Having said that, what you have written there shows again that if someone disagrees with you and wants to do things their own way, it warrants name calling.

In regards to your welcome of new people and outsiders as you call them, I do not recall a warm welcome from you, or your posse, so I think you are a bit full of yourself. You have done nothing but name call and make belittling comments and then the rest of your posse chime in with one or two line posts that have nothing to do with the topic just like a bunch of high school kids. Example below. How clever.. no wonder you guys have so many posts. So you are the bear, you are the shark... what else?



One thing some who read this thread will notice is, that no matter how high and mighty you might think you are, or how respected you think you are, it's a small handful of people who have your back and chime in and slap you on the back when you name call. The rest not so much. This board is for Texans fans, and I am one of them. If you do not like my posts, put me on ignore, but do not try to bully me or think you can run me off.

DB, please don't respond... We've seen this joker (well literally) hundreds of of times before??

Nitrofish
12-29-2011, 09:40 PM
Dude.. Seriously quit being a jackass!!! My young man Gary is a fine young man!!! Check yourself:

Gary Lynn Foundation - *****! (http://www.thegaryjlynnfoundation.org/)

Oh kewl, more name calling. What does my postings have to do with Gary's foundation? Did I say anything about Gary as a human being or about his foundation?

He may be a great guy, I hope I get the chance to find out someday, but that does not give him license to post garbage like this.

Good leaders find a way to bring people together, not divide them, and this is divisive at a time when we all should be supporting our Team.

DBCooper
12-29-2011, 10:06 PM
Oh kewl, more name calling. What does my postings have to do with Gary's foundation? Did I say anything about Gary as a human being or about his foundation?

He may be a great guy, I hope I get the chance to find out someday, but that does not give him license to post garbage like this.

Good leaders find a way to bring people together, not divide them, and this is divisive at a time when we all should be supporting our Team.

Ok, now the fun begins.

You have not made one single valid point as to why Kubiak deserves all this butt-buddyism.

Kubiak is not a good head coach. His clock management skills suck donkey balls. His play calling alot of the times is weak and predictable.

He is just a better than average Offensive Coordinator with some excellent ball players at some key positions.

If I had to choose between Kubiak as an OC and Wade as a DC, I would pick Wade hands down. He's the man on the defensive side of the ball.

Argue the points and stop attacking the poster.

Or shut your Pie-hole.

Nitrofish
12-29-2011, 11:42 PM
Ok, now the fun begins.

You have not made one single valid point as to why Kubiak deserves all this butt-buddyism.

Kubiak is not a good head coach. His clock management skills suck donkey balls. His play calling alot of the times is weak and predictable.

He is just a better than average Offensive Coordinator with some excellent ball players at some key positions.

If I had to choose between Kubiak as an OC and Wade as a DC, I would pick Wade hands down. He's the man on the defensive side of the ball.

Argue the points and stop attacking the poster.

Or shut your Pie-hole.

First off I am not attacking the poster... I am not resorting to name calling, I am calling for an end to the Kubiak bashing until the season is over.

The facts are simple...

Kubiak in 2011


10-5 Record
AFC South Division Champions
1st Playoff Berth in Texans History
#1 in time of possession (32:32)
#5 in 3rd down conversion per game (5.9)
#1 in rushing attempts (34.4)
#10 Points per game (23.9)


There is more, but I think the first three are enough to get you guys off his back. Let's not forget all of this he has done without many of his key players as you know. I would say Kubiak and the Texans have achieved allot this season.

Now before you start posting his other stats from seasons past, spare me. Just like fans on NFL.com or even these boards I do not care what happened last year, or seasons before that. We are discussing this season and more importantly this thread is about Wade vs Kubiak and who is more valuable. So if you could stay on topic it would be helpful.

So with the accomplishments listed above straight from my pie-hole should be reason enough to stow the whining about Kubiak at least until the season ends.

Truth is I do not care if Kubiak is the head coach or not. But the fact remains that he is, and as long as he is, I will support him and all of your constant whining will not change that. Nothing wrong with some criticism, but I think most of you carry it waaaaaaaaaaaay to far.

For the record, I think Kubiak was too conservative in the last game as well, but he certainly was not that way during the 7 game win streak. So how about you give the guy a break and wait and see what happens in the remaining games.

Wade is no more Valuable than Kubiak. They compliment each other nicely.

I can't help but wonder if you guys are going to feel the same way should Phillips move onto a HC position offered to him, or will you be calling him a traitor, etc, etc? No... I know what you will say.. "Fire Kubiak" and make Phillips the HC.

The Pie-Hole has Spoken!

2BCF
12-30-2011, 12:24 AM
No that is not right... Your thread is nothing more than another display of your hatred for Kubiak and it could not come at a worse time. Just because the team has lost a few after all they have done, does not warrant more Kubiak bashing.

Were you posting useless threads like this when the Texans were on a 7 game win streak? I mean it seems to me that you are more interested in complaining and 2nd guessing Kubiak than you are in supporting your team during their first ever playoff run.

What? You honestly think Kubiak is losing any sleep over a MB thread?

People can post about any players or personnel, as long as it falls within the board's rules.
I'll grant you one thing, you do seem to be quite the expert on useless posts. :smiliepalm:

thunderkyss
12-30-2011, 07:35 AM
Lay off Gary

He puts himself out there like everybody else. Harsh maybe, I like the little fella (never met him), I do admire his courage. But I think he's a tough kid, everything I do know about him says as much. He takes care of himself fine on this board, doesn't need any body guards or kid gloves imo.

thunderkyss
12-30-2011, 07:42 AM
You have not made one single valid point as to why Kubiak deserves all this butt-buddyism.


Except this little nugget in the post you quoted.


Good leaders find a way to bring people together, not divide them, and this is divisive at a time when we all should be supporting our Team.



Kubiak is not a good head coach. His clock management skills suck donkey balls. His play calling alot of the times is weak and predictable.

He is just a better than average Offensive Coordinator with some excellent ball players at some key positions.


Look at the talent we've got on offense.... he made that a top 10 offense 6 years running.

Arian Foster is bad ass. Is it luck that Kubiak "found" him & has been able to make the most of his talent? The same way he did in Denver?

Denver who were also offensive leaders the whole time Kubiak was there.

coincidence?


If I had to choose between Kubiak as an OC and Wade as a DC, I would pick Wade hands down. He's the man on the defensive side of the ball.

Argue the points and stop attacking the poster.

Or shut your Pie-hole.

Show me an attack.

Grams
12-30-2011, 07:48 AM
First off I am not attacking the poster... I am not resorting to name calling, I am calling for an end to the Kubiak bashing until the season is over.

Bashing Kubiak is what we do best here.

Doesn't matter what he has done this year (with Wade) he has 5 years of suckatude and the last 2 games (without Wade) is still suckatude.

Kubiak with Wade is fantastic.
Kubiak without Wade sucks.

Playoffs
12-30-2011, 09:42 AM
Kubiak: "You got your peanut butter in my chocolate!"

Phillips: "You got your chocolate in my peanut butter!"

http://thumbs.ifood.tv/files/images/How_To_Make_Reese_Peanut_Butter_Cups_-_easy_steps.jpg
:clap: Perfect!

MSR

DBCooper
12-30-2011, 09:59 AM
Except this little nugget in the post you quoted.

Look at the talent we've got on offense.... he made that a top 10 offense 6 years running.

Arian Foster is bad ass. Is it luck that Kubiak "found" him & has been able to make the most of his talent? The same way he did in Denver?

Denver who were also offensive leaders the whole time Kubiak was there.

coincidence?



Show me an attack.

Nitrofish has been attacking posters throughout this thread, TK.

I like what Kubiak has done on the offense for the most part. And hes done a terrific job considering all the injuries. I don't really like him as a head coach though.

Our defense is why we are even having this discussion in late December.

DBCooper
12-30-2011, 10:04 AM
First off I am not attacking the poster... I am not resorting to name calling, I am calling for an end to the Kubiak bashing until the season is over.

The facts are simple...

Kubiak in 2011


10-5 Record
AFC South Division ChampionJs
1st Playoff Berth in Texans History
#1 in time of possession (32:32)
#5 in 3rd down conversion per game (5.9)
#1 in rushing attempts (34.4)
#10 Points per game (23.9)


There is more, but I think the first three are enough to get you guys off his back. Let's not forget all of this he has done without many of his key players as you know. I would say Kubiak and the Texans have achieved allot this season.



I attribute the first 3 to Wade not Kubiak.

EllisUnit
12-30-2011, 10:14 AM
I attribute the first 3 to Wade not Kubiak.

Does Wade run the offense ? Whic is also a big reason for the first 3

Texan_Bill
12-30-2011, 10:17 AM
Kubiak: "You got your peanut butter in my chocolate!"

Phillips: "You got your chocolate in my peanut butter!"

http://thumbs.ifood.tv/files/images/How_To_Make_Reese_Peanut_Butter_Cups_-_easy_steps.jpg

Perfect!!! Repped!!

Mr teX
12-30-2011, 10:38 AM
I attribute the first 3 to Wade not Kubiak.

sigh....Its just not that simple folks. You guys are acting like Wade's defense is the steel curtain or something. We've seen wade's defense without an offense to score...& the long & short of it is it ain't all that. How'd his defense look against Balt when our offense couldn't score? How about in NO when the offense had to drop 33 damn points just to keep pace with the saints?


A good defense can keep you in a game (hell offense can too if it's potent enough) but the offense 999999999999.9 % of the time is going to be the side of the ball that wins you the game by putting up points. We've seen in Wade's previous stops as an HC, his offenses have always been the achilles heels to his teams.

Stop acting like Wade's defense is the Gritz Blitz defense.

DBCooper
12-30-2011, 10:50 AM
sigh....Its just not that simple folks defense can keep you in a game but the offense 9999.9 % of the time wins the game.

We've seen wade's defense without an offense to score...it ain't all that.

And in previous years we had an offense that could score and no defense.

I didn't like that either.

I think we all understand that we need both to be successful, but Gary's whole point was that he feels Wade is more valuable to our team.

I agree with him. I would rather replace Kubiak as OC than Wade as DC.

Hopefully this combo of Wade and Kubiak works out, I like the shape of the team (without injuries of course) and we have a long successful stretch of Super Bowl wins.

EllisUnit
12-30-2011, 10:53 AM
And in previous years we had an offense that could score and no defense.

I didn't like that either.

I think we all understand that we need both to be successful, but Gary's whole point was that he feels Wade is more valuable to our team.

I agree with him. I would rather replace Kubiak as OC than Wade as DC.

Hopefully this combo of Wade and Kubiak works out, I like the shape of the team (without injuries of course) and we have a long successful stretch of Super Bowl wins.

So why even worry about a head coach, if Kubiak Controls the offense anyways and Wade controls the defense. No point in putting a middle man in there. Leave it as is IMO

DBCooper
12-30-2011, 10:59 AM
So why even worry about a head coach, if Kubiak Controls the offense anyways and Wade controls the defense. No point in putting a middle man in there. Leave it as is IMO

We could program Kubiak an iPhone app for better clock management and we are Super Bowl bound!

Mr teX
12-30-2011, 11:00 AM
And in previous years we had an offense that could score and no defense.

I didn't like that either.

I think we all understand that we need both to be successful, but Gary's whole point was that he feels Wade is more valuable to our team.

I agree with him. I would rather replace Kubiak as OC than Wade as DC.

Hopefully this combo of Wade and Kubiak works out, I like the shape of the team (without injuries of course) and we have a long successful stretch of Super Bowl wins.

That's only b/c our defense has literally done a 180 from where it was last year upon his arrival.........& the fact that he hasn't been here long enough for anyone to question what he's doing with his side of the ball...unlike Kubes.

But if he sticks around, slowly but surely his critics will come out of the woodworks. It happened in Dallas & it'll happen here if he stays long enough.

gary
12-30-2011, 11:09 AM
Don't care what you guys say about me I support my team a lot just see what I just did for my friend at TCH with cancer and he also had a stroke. For those of you on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1268438907
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Team-England/132854733488757

DBCooper
12-30-2011, 11:12 AM
Don't care what you guys say about me I support my team a lot just see what I just did for my friend at TCH with cancer and he also had a stroke. For those of you on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1268438907
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Team-England/132854733488757

I love you Gary!

Post hot chicks, please.