PDA

View Full Version : Eric Winston vs. Indy?


Wolf6151
12-23-2011, 04:31 PM
I didn't see the game, don't have NFL Network and the wife wanted to go out to eat, how did Winston play vs. the Colts? I read on another forum that he gave up another sack and looked slow again. What's you guys opinion of Winstons performance? Thanks.

Carr Bombed
12-23-2011, 04:34 PM
I didn't see the game, don't have NFL Network and the wife wanted to go out to eat, how did Winston play vs. the Colts? I read on another forum that he gave up another sack and looked slow again. What's you guys opinion of Winstons performance? Thanks.

I've already made about 5 different posts about this... You can go ahead and rename the thread Eric Winston vs. speed rushers.. he did the same as he always does and has always done his entire NFL career. He got ate up and demolished.

Carr Bombed
12-23-2011, 04:37 PM
Needs to move into guard. Shown over the years he can not handle pass rushers on the outside.

We need someone more athletic, quicker and stronger at RT.

He dominates pass rushers like Mario (the big guys who's game is built on strength), strength isn't a issue with Winston (reason why he dominates in the running game). It's the fast smaller guys with a quick first step that is his kryptonite.

He may eventually have to be moved inside (he'd be a hellacious pulling guard) and we may need to actually invest a high round draft pick at that position on a guy who's athletic and can stay in front of speed rushers.

Norg
12-23-2011, 04:41 PM
Needs to move into guard. Shown over the years he can not handle pass rushers on the outside.

We need someone more athletic, quicker and stronger at RT.

Caldwell looks like junk too, and Brisel isn't too much better. Our right side is a mess.


That about sums it up. U wanna see your team get better in the off season lets add RT to the need list. ......

Wolf6151
12-23-2011, 05:14 PM
Thanks, I've been preaching for a while now that Winston needs to be moved to RG because of his short arms and getting slow. He would vastly improve the RG position, vastly improve our O-line depth by moving Brisiel and Caldwell to backups, and get better at RT with a 2nd round draft pick that's more athletic.

dream_team
12-23-2011, 05:45 PM
How about have Butler play RT and move Winston inside?

How come out of all of the OL on the Texans, Winston seems to be the most popular? When anyone talks about a potential pro bowler on the OL, they bring up Winston? Brown & Myers are our clear two best lineman.

GP
12-23-2011, 11:48 PM
I've been watching him get our QB blown up all season long.

Which usually happens from the QB's BLIND side...not the side where the QB can see the guy coming (which is Winston's side). It takes a special kind of right tackle to do what Winston has been doing all season this year.

Other than Kareem Jackson, I can't think of another Texans player who has been abused and ate up as much as Winston has. This two guys, IMO, are the weakest links on this team.

I used to think QB or WR was a 1st round need in the 2012 draft. Until now. I'm convinced that RT might have to be in the mix for round 1. Because #73 needs to wear a number in the 60s in 2012. Period.

Brisco_County
12-24-2011, 04:41 AM
Clone Duane Brown, problem solved.

Maddict5
12-24-2011, 07:06 AM
moving winston to rg? couldnt be bothered diging out the 'not this shit again' picture but it fits

why are ppl surprised a RT struggles with speed rushers? geez winston must be the only one of those :rolleyes:

this forum gets pretty dumb after losses

NastyNate
12-24-2011, 08:15 AM
Needs to move into guard. Shown over the years he can not handle pass rushers on the outside.

We need someone more athletic, quicker and stronger at RT.

Caldwell looks like junk too, and Brisel isn't too much better. Our right side is a mess.

Briesel isn't much better? I think you got a firsthand look at how important continuity is on our starting O-line and why it works so well when we're healthy. Caldwell got destroyed on Thursday, Winston looked okay albeit a few plays. Freeney and Mathis are very good pass rushers and are paid to get to the qb... heaven forbid they do their job.

HJam72
12-24-2011, 11:13 AM
Actually, these guys giving up sacks are doing us a big favor, because I'm just waiting for the refs to put a short, pink skirt on our QB just like all the other ones wear. We could use all those yards on offense. Yates could scream at the officials, "He touched me! He touched me!" just like good ole Peyton.

beerlover
12-24-2011, 11:17 AM
Actually, these guys giving up sacks are doing us a big favor, because I'm just waiting for the refs to put a short, pink skirt on our QB just like all the other ones wear. We could use all those yards on offense. Yates could scream at the officials, "He touched me! He touched me!" just like good ole Peyton.

maybe the refs got confused & thought it was Peyton Manning back there in a Colt uniform? :thinking:

IDEXAN
12-24-2011, 12:29 PM
Don't remember hearing Dwight Freeneys name spoken all evening after the game started ? What a testimony to how outstanding a game Duane Brown played.

Kthx
12-24-2011, 01:07 PM
How about have Butler play RT and move Winston inside?

How come out of all of the OL on the Texans, Winston seems to be the most popular? When anyone talks about a potential pro bowler on the OL, they bring up Winston? Brown & Myers are our clear two best lineman.

Its probably because he is a huge asset when it comes to our running game more than his pass rush blocking skills.

thunderkyss
12-24-2011, 03:00 PM
Which usually happens from the QB's BLIND side...not the side where the QB can see the guy coming (which is Winston's side). It takes a special kind of right tackle to do what Winston has been doing all season this year.


What's really bad, was on one of those sacks, he had help to the outside, he let himself get beat to the inside & he held & he still gave up the sack.

thunderkyss
12-24-2011, 03:02 PM
Don't remember hearing Dwight Freeneys name spoken all evening after the game started ? What a testimony to how outstanding a game Duane Brown played.

Duane Brown pwned, in both the run game & passing game.

NastyNate
12-24-2011, 03:18 PM
What's really bad, was on one of those sacks, he had help to the outside, he let himself get beat to the inside & he held & he still gave up the sack.

That play was pretty hard to forget. C'mon MAN!

Carr Bombed
12-24-2011, 05:13 PM
moving winston to rg? couldn't be bothered diging out the 'not this shit again' picture but it fits

why are ppl surprised a RT struggles with speed rushers? geez winston must be the only one of those :rolleyes:

this forum gets pretty dumb after losses

Gee I guess Mathis leads the league in sacks and has about 20 already then huh? Oh wait.......he doesn't, hmm I guess not every RT in the league gets their ass kicked by speed rushers. :toropalm:

Next time how about you just don't bother to post at all in threads like this, we don't really need you telling us how "dumb" we are.

Winston is a weak link on the line when he's matched up against players like that and no....not every RT has that glaring hole in their game, it would be "dumb" to think that and to make excuses and write off Winston's inability to stay in front of players like that.

Carr Bombed
12-24-2011, 05:16 PM
Duane Brown pwned, in both the run game & passing game.

Not bad for a player who was a "reach" huh?

Duane Brown has developed into a elite LT and he's one of the best in the league now. They need to go ahead and lock him up with a long term contract.

CloakNNNdagger
12-24-2011, 06:01 PM
Gee I guess Mathis leads the league in sacks and has about 20 already then huh? Oh wait.......he doesn't, hmm I guess not every RT in the league gets their ass kicked by speed rushers. :toropalm:

Next time how about you just don't bother to post at all in threads like this, we don't really need you telling us how "dumb" we are.

Winston is a weak link on the line when he's matched up against players like that and no....not every RT has that glaring hole in their game, it would be "dumb" to think that and to make excuses and write off Winston's inability to stay in front of players like that.

The Texans will always have problems with good and savy Ds. They play to this weakness. We can't always move another O player over to compensate for his deficiency or we will end up seeing the other side break down..........and so will D coaches.

As our RT, Winston is expected to chew up good Ds. Unfortunately, he ends up more the chewee.........unless he's sitting down and concentrating at WingStop.

Maddict5
12-24-2011, 09:23 PM
Gee I guess Mathis leads the league in sacks and has about 20 already then huh? Oh wait.......he doesn't, hmm I guess not every RT in the league gets their ass kicked by speed rushers. :toropalm:

Next time how about you just don't bother to post at all in threads like this, we don't really need you telling us how "dumb" we are.

Winston is a weak link on the line when he's matched up against players like that and no....not every RT has that glaring hole in their game, it would be "dumb" to think that and to make excuses and write off Winston's inability to stay in front of players like that.

sorry but it is dumb to want to change your good RT to guard after 6 seasons (with 1 game to go before the playoffs! :facepalm:) after a few poor pass protection outings v smallish speed rushers. everybody who follows the texans knows thats erics weakness just like it is with the majority of RT's (obviously they are a couple elite exceptions but generally RT's are run blocking maulers with less agility and quickness). im not exactly going out on a limb saying that so why argue? he makes up for it with his very good-great run blocking. possibly related: texans have one of the top run games last two yrs

mathis is one of the best pass rushing lde's in the league. you're trying to argue that with sack stats? real insightful :rolleyes:
just as an example if a stat guy like yourself were to go by the sack stats jason babin is one of if not the best DE in the league?:rake:

theres a handful of guys that give eric problems but he handles 90% of them fine. its just that hes faced two of the few that do give him trouble in recent weeks in abraham and mathis. unless ive overlooked somebody, i see none of the teams we're due to face in the playoffs having one of those guys

silvrhand
12-24-2011, 11:45 PM
How about have Butler play RT and move Winston inside?

How come out of all of the OL on the Texans, Winston seems to be the most popular? When anyone talks about a potential pro bowler on the OL, they bring up Winston? Brown & Myers are our clear two best lineman.

How about we just use the TE to chip the speed rushers when we know it's a passing down then release into their route. Gary is very stubborn sometimes and refuses to change his tactics based on personnel.

Dutchrudder
12-25-2011, 12:05 AM
Iirc, the sack Winston allowed to Mathis, wasn't all that much his fault, but moreso on Yates for not stepping up into the open pocket. Winston was pushing Mathis to the outside, but Yates took 5 steps back and never took one forward, so he was right there once Mathis got to the top of the pocket.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 12:07 AM
sorry but it is dumb to want to change your good RT to guard after 6 seasons (with 1 game to go before the playoffs! :facepalm:) after a few poor pass protection outings v smallish speed rushers. everybody who follows the texans knows thats erics weakness just like it is with the majority of RT's (obviously they are a couple elite exceptions but generally RT's are run blocking maulers with less agility and quickness). im not exactly going out on a limb saying that so why argue? he makes up for it with his very good-great run blocking. possibly related: texans have one of the top run games last two yrs

mathis is one of the best pass rushing lde's in the league. you're trying to argue that with sack stats? real insightful :rolleyes:
just as an example if a stat guy like yourself were to go by the sack stats jason babin is one of if not the best DE in the league?:rake:

theres a handful of guys that give eric problems but he handles 90% of them fine. its just that hes faced two of the few that do give him trouble in recent weeks in abraham and mathis. unless ive overlooked somebody, i see none of the teams we're due to face in the playoffs having one of those guys

:toropalm: Nobody was talking about "changing him out with 1 game before the playoffs"...they were talking about drafting someone in the offseason. As in after this season is over.

Jason Babin IS one of the best pass rushers in the league now...what's your point?

Fact is Winton is a liability in pass protection against the type of DEs that play in our division and the type that you see in the playoffs...if you can upgrade the position you do it. Nobody is irreplaceable and it's not "dumb" to have a debate about it. That is the purpose of this board is it not? If you thought it was a "dumb" idea or discussion, then maybe you should just move on to another topic in another thread.

disaacks3
12-25-2011, 12:26 AM
moving winston to rg? couldnt be bothered diging out the 'not this shit again' picture but it fits

why are ppl surprised a RT struggles with speed rushers? geez winston must be the only one of those :rolleyes:

this forum gets pretty dumb after losses Uhm, several of us were "bitching" after the Miami game...which we won. Winston has played like he was wearing cement shoes several times this year. They were all against speed rushers.

Iirc, the sack Winston allowed to Mathis, wasn't all that much his fault, but moreso on Yates for not stepping up into the open pocket. Winston was pushing Mathis to the outside, but Yates took 5 steps back and never took one forward, so he was right there once Mathis got to the top of the pocket. Yeah, I score that 60/40 Yates, but others might see differently.

TejasTom
12-25-2011, 10:53 AM
From Kubes press conference:


(on if RT Eric Winston’s penalties and pass protection in the last month are a concern) “No. Eric’s a consistent player for us. He struggled with (Robert) Mathis. I mean, they’ve got Pro Bowl players on both sides. Two great players, been doing it a long, long time. The biggest disappointment for me, we had four sacks. Three out of those for sacks came when we were actually trying to help our tackles. They weren’t even singled up. We didn’t play well toward our help, without me getting into a bunch of football stuff. We need to play to our help better when we’re getting it and we didn’t do that. We’ve got to protect our quarterback a lot better than we did.”


Sounds like Winston was supposed to have back/TE on three of the four sacks.

TejasTom
12-25-2011, 10:58 AM
Duane Brown has developed into a elite LT and he's one of the best in the league now. They need to go ahead and lock him up with a long term contract.

I believe the only LT to not give up a sack this year!

CloakNNNdagger
12-25-2011, 10:59 AM
From Kubes press conference:



Sounds like Winston was supposed to have back/TE on three of the four sacks.

As I've said before, if you have to steal from another position to re-inforce the tackle, another area is left weakened, mostly likely collapse of the pocket from pressure up the middle.

TejasTom
12-25-2011, 11:01 AM
As I've said before, if you have to steal from another position to re-inforce the tackle, another area is left weakened, mostly likely collapse of the pocket from pressure up the middle.

Not a good situation with a backup guard.

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 02:20 PM
From Kubes press conference:



Sounds like Winston was supposed to have back/TE on three of the four sacks.

Winston only gave up two sacks, he had help on one, the one he got called for the holding penalty.

This quote makes it sound like he wasn't the only one who gave up a sack when help was there.

beerlover
12-25-2011, 02:36 PM
What's important when beat is to stay engaged & look to block release outlet so QB has out option.

ObsiWan
12-25-2011, 07:22 PM
From Kubes press conference:



Sounds like Winston was supposed to have back/TE on three of the four sacks.

My question is, what does this really mean?
We didn’t play well toward our help, without me getting into a bunch of football stuff. We need to play to our help better when we’re getting it and we didn’t do that.

Did the TEs/RBs not pick up effectively or did Yates not "feel" where the rush was coming from and correctly step into the pocket? Or did the help not create a proper pocket?

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 08:02 PM
My question is, what does this really mean?


Did the TEs/RBs not pick up effectively or did Yates not "feel" where the rush was coming from and correctly step into the pocket? Or did the help not create a proper pocket?

I've only noticed 2 plays where this was a problem.

The most obvious one was where Winston gets called on a holding penalty & gives up the sack. He's got Dressen outside of him, and instead of protecting his inside, he let himself get beat to the inside. He should have protected the inside against all odds. Never should have happened.

There was another, where Tj takes a quick 3 step drop, pulls the ball down then rolls around to his left & get sacked. Vickers is the help, coming out of the backfield. He thinks (judging by what he does) Caldwell is getting beat on the inside & tries to slide to the inside to help. But he runs right into Yates, disturbing his throwing motion, causing Yates to pull it back down.

The sack strip, Winston had no help, but Tj should have "felt" it & stepped up...... I mean other than Winston doing a better job & forcing Mathis on a wider arc.... Tj could have helped out there.

I don't know what the other one was.

Texan_Bill
12-25-2011, 08:19 PM
He had problems with Robert Mathis?



In a John Granato voice: "Who doesn't?" :truck:

GP
12-26-2011, 11:33 AM
Winston is the blocker who got beat on the play where Leinart was drilled into the ground and lost for the season.

He was playing patty-cake with his defender, it was amateur hour for who everyone thinks Winston to be (A Pro Bowl-caliber RT).

Look, I don't know what the deal is with him this season. I didn't see this consistent level of suckage from him early on in the season. I wonder if he's got some injuries or overall "banged up" problems that have hobbled him to the point of not being out of games but not being in prime condition either.

I don't even think Kubiak would move him to RG in 2012 either. Hopefully they're working on "blocking to their help" as Kubiak put it.

TejasTom
12-26-2011, 12:19 PM
My question is, what does this really mean?


Did the TEs/RBs not pick up effectively or did Yates not "feel" where the rush was coming from and correctly step into the pocket? Or did the help not create a proper pocket?

Can we get you press credentials?