PDA

View Full Version : On you Kubiak


FR0497
12-22-2011, 11:34 PM
Keep holding the offense hostage and this is what happens. Let the damn kid play. If we're gonna lose at least go down with an open playbook, not this vanilla crap we're running. 1 and done in the playoffs with the way this is going.

TexansFanatic
12-22-2011, 11:36 PM
Totally agree.

The game was there for the taking and Kubiak played not to lose.

Sickening.

grinch1134
12-22-2011, 11:37 PM
Really, on Kubiak? We have scrubs and bandages holding this team together and it is all play calling? ...still enjoying the ride.

hradhak
12-22-2011, 11:39 PM
Totally agree.

The game was there for the taking and Kubiak played not to lose.

Sickening.

I'm not sure why we are playing not to lose football. We weren't when the AFC South was on the line. Now we win the division and we crawl into the playoffs. Did yates throw a pass more than 10 yards down field? Jacoby was open on several deep plays on bootlegs and Yates fixated on the crossing TE instead.

I really don't understand it, this team could be up with the #1 seed and instead we come out extremely conservative.

TexansFanatic
12-22-2011, 11:42 PM
Really, on Kubiak? We have scrubs and bandages holding this team together and it is all play calling? ...still enjoying the ride.

The Texans just lost to the worst team in the league.

Does that mean the Texans are the worst team in the league?

No.

It means they have one of the worst game day coaches in the league.

santo
12-22-2011, 11:42 PM
Funny how people expect Yates to throw downfield when Winston and Caldewll can't hold their blocks.

Kubiak may have called a bad game (which I really can't agree) but what do you expect him to do when Yates doesn't get the protection he needs plus the officials throwing the flags on crucial moments. Colts scored 13 points off BS calls.

FR0497
12-22-2011, 11:44 PM
Really, on Kubiak? We have scrubs and bandages holding this team together and it is all play calling? ...still enjoying the ride.

Yes really. I agree about our injuries BUT you don't make matters worse by calling a terrible game. At least give the "scrubs" a chance because they WILL have to make plays in the playoffs if we want a chance to win A game.

grinch1134
12-22-2011, 11:51 PM
Really, give em a chance. There are multiple 1 and done threads out here. We are what we say we are. Is that good enough, who knows. Everyone on here says jacoby sucks. Walter is our deep ball threat and he runs in routes. We don't have a healthy team. And by scrubs I mean we have players out there now an also considered depth that would normally barely make the practice squad.

And the worst team in the nfl. We've said that about ourselves a few times and here we are. The colts aren't the worst team in the nfl. Statistically, maybe this year, but they are a qb away from last year. Just like we are a solid qb away from it this year.

Don't get me wrong I hope we make a good run, but a coach must play up his strong side and passing is not it now. Hopefully AJ canhelp change this.

ChrisG
12-22-2011, 11:56 PM
Funny how people expect Yates to throw downfield when Winston and Caldewll can't hold their blocks.



Ill believe this when I see a replay of at least 5 plays that had a wr running a deep route.

thunderkyss
12-24-2011, 02:54 PM
Keep holding the offense hostage and this is what happens. Let the damn kid play. If we're gonna lose at least go down with an open playbook, not this vanilla crap we're running. 1 and done in the playoffs with the way this is going.

Finally, someone giving Kubiak the credit he deserves.

10-5 Kubiak, that's on you.

Thorn
12-24-2011, 03:09 PM
Anyone giving any consideration to the idea it might be somewhere in between Kubiak (whom I admittly don't like) and just the circumstances of injuries the team is facing?

gtexan02
12-24-2011, 03:24 PM
Anyone giving any consideration to the idea it might be somewhere in between Kubiak (whom I admittly don't like) and just the circumstances of injuries the team is facing?

Exactly. Refs + Kubiak+ no wade + injuries = loss to 1 win team

thunderkyss
12-24-2011, 03:26 PM
Anyone giving any consideration to the idea it might be somewhere in between Kubiak (whom I admittly don't like) and just the circumstances of injuries the team is facing?

I think everyone has to deal with injuries. If they happen during the game, I'll give it some credence. But when you lose with the team you brought... nah, that's on the coach.

gtexan02
12-24-2011, 03:28 PM
I think everyone has to deal with injuries. If they happen during the game, I'll give it some credence. But when you lose with the team you brought... nah, that's on the coach.

Lol yeah, bc so many teams have been successful with 3rd string QBs throwing behind backup OL to 3rd string WRs

thunderkyss
12-24-2011, 03:44 PM
Lol yeah, bc so many teams have been successful with 3rd string QBs throwing behind backup OL to 3rd string WRs

We won three games with that 3rd string QB

We lost to a 3rd string QB.

I'm not saying this loss is anymore than what it is. It is what it is.

The only thing different I think Kubiak should have done, was to call a time out much sooner in that final drive. He didn't call that timeout until they spotted the ball on the 1.5 yard line... WTF were we going to do there?

Two penalties extended their drive... he waited till after the third.

What was he saving those T.O.s for?

Texecutioner
12-24-2011, 03:54 PM
It seems that some people just don't have the capability of understanding why so many people are criticizing Kubiak after this game and then looking back at the last 3 games. People realize that the team has had all types of injuries and stuff like that. People want to see the HC going for the win any way possible though. They don't want to see a conservative game plan just because Yates is a rookie. Hell this same rookie had a very impressive drive against one of the best defenses in the NFL to win the game in the clutch. People are watching a HC pull back the reigns completely on this offense giving other teams a competitive advantage. Most fans realize that Yates is a young QB that is going to make mistakes here and there, but they want to see the kid allowed to actually play and try to put up points on offense. Kubiak is coaching to where it has to be all on the defense and the running game to win the game which is handcuffing the team at this juncture. I don't doubt one bit that folks would be just fine with Kubiak if he was allowing Yates and the rest of the offense to make plays. He's not!! It's that simple. NOthing more complicated about it. Allow your team the chance to win the game and PLAY TO WIN instead of playing to stay in the game and hoping that your defense can create a few TO's for some easy FG's to win with an offensive output of 13 points.

Carr Bombed
12-24-2011, 03:55 PM
:rolleyes: Kubiak could commit 1st degree murder and you'd have the same people running in here and making excuses for why he did it.

Fact is He put the handcuffs back on and went super conservative and don't give me the injury excuse...because that's not how he coached when the division was still up for grabs. Matt Schaub is not going to walk through that door, Yates is what we have under center until next year so let him freaking play......and if you don't trust him, then pull him and give someone else a shot. You can't hide your QB in the playoffs so instead of wasting valuable snaps during these last few games, he should've used them to get T.J. ready for the playoffs.

Kubiak coaches like a scared wussy....not surprising for a guy who can't even watch his kicker kick FGs.

steelbtexan
12-24-2011, 04:01 PM
Finally, someone giving Kubiak the credit he deserves.

10-5 Kubiak, that's on you.

0-2 without Wade.

thunderkyss
12-24-2011, 04:04 PM
It seems that some people just don't have the capability of understanding why so many people are criticizing Kubiak after this game and then looking back at the last 3 games. People realize that the team has had all types of injuries and stuff like that. People want to see the HC going for the win any way possible though. They don't want to see a conservative game plan just because Yates is a rookie. Hell this same rookie had a very impressive drive against one of the best defenses in the NFL to win the game in the clutch. People are watching a HC pull back the reigns completely on this offense giving other teams a competitive advantage. Most fans realize that Yates is a young QB that is going to make mistakes here and there, but they want to see the kid allowed to actually play and try to put up points on offense. Kubiak is coaching to where it has to be all on the defense and the running game to win the game which is handcuffing the team at this juncture. I don't doubt one bit that folks would be just fine with Kubiak if he was allowing Yates and the rest of the offense to make plays. He's not!! It's that simple. NOthing more complicated about it. Allow your team the chance to win the game and PLAY TO WIN instead of playing to stay in the game and hoping that your defense can create a few TO's for some easy FG's to win with an offensive output of 13 points.

Play to win the game, no matter what.

That's what we did, but nobody is happy with that. We had them in position to win, forcing the Colts to score a TD with 1:56 left, no timeouts, starting on their 20 against the #2 defense in the league.

We lost the game, but not because Tj didn't air it out. Not because Kubiak handcuffed him. There were opportunities, Tj didn't take them. He played it safe... which is what we needed to win.

I say that because we had the lead with 1:56 left in the game, the Colts had no T.O.s they hadn't scored a TD all night & they were spotted at the 20 yard line going against the #2 defense in the league. A defense that stopped them twice, but because of some penalties, they failed to get off the field.

How can you blame Kubiak for that?

I'd have liked for him to go for it on 4-2 to pick up that first down, kill some more time & then kick a field goal... or score a TD, that would have been nice.

But you can't fault him for getting the field goal & putting the Colts on the 20 against the #2 defense in the league.

That's football, that's game winning decisions right there. You can't blame Kubiak for what happened after that point if you're going to say, "do whatever it takes to get a win."

Because that's what he did. Losing that game had nothing to do with Kubiaks game management.

thunderkyss
12-24-2011, 04:08 PM
We lost the game, but not because Tj didn't air it out. Not because Kubiak handcuffed him. There were opportunities, Tj didn't take them. He played it safe... which is what we needed to win.


Ya'll are making it sound as if we would have scored more than more than 16 had we let Tj throw it more. But there is no proof of that.

Everyone knows we got lucky in Cincinnati, heck Texecutioner, you're one of the main guys saying we can't go far asking Tj to do too much.

dtran04
12-24-2011, 04:14 PM
And the same people would complain if he lets it loose and ignores a top 5 rushing game and a top 5 defense.

I'd trust the game to my running game and D before a 3rd string rookie QB. But that's just me.

Carr Bombed
12-24-2011, 04:21 PM
And the same people would complain if he lets it loose and ignores a top 5 rushing game and a top 5 defense.

I'd trust the game to my running game and D before a 3rd string rookie QB. But that's just me.

:rolleyes: Who asked him to ignore the running game? I asked for balance. Or how about this? Just asking him NOT TO HAND IT OFF ON 3rd and 8.

Keep pumping out your excuses though.

steelbtexan
12-24-2011, 04:33 PM
Fact Gary is a loser.

The only reason he has one this yr is because BoBBy forced Wade down his throat this offseason.

What's Garys record without Wade?

They were acting like they won the SB after a 9-7 season.

Now they're acting like they won a SB after they snuck into the playoffs in a truly putrid division.

Sad part is Wade will probably get a HC gig and Gary will get a 3 yr extention. The fans will be stuck with 3 more yrs of Gary ball. Because as it has been shown BoBBy will not buy out Garys extention regadless of how bad he stinks at his job.

burro
12-24-2011, 05:19 PM
Refusing to throw the ball on 3rd and long (with the exception of a few dump routes) is on Kubiak. I don't know how anyone could argue that Kubiak called a good game. His poor adjustments and chickensh!t calls accomplished nothing but to make T.J. look bad (even though he went 13-16 (81.3% comp) for 132 yards (8.3 YPP) making a 101.0 QB rating).

Furthermore, how do you let Herring put KJ in man coverage on Reggie Wayne? You give Wade benefit of the doubt in those situations, not Herring. Before the snap he should have called timeout and talked it over.

thunderkyss
12-24-2011, 05:21 PM
Fact Gary is a loser.

The only reason he has one this yr is because BoBBy forced Wade down his throat this offseason.

What's Garys record without Wade?

They were acting like they won the SB after a 9-7 season.

Now they're acting like they won a SB after they snuck into the playoffs in a truly putrid division.

Sad part is Wade will probably get a HC gig and Gary will get a 3 yr extention. The fans will be stuck with 3 more yrs of Gary ball. Because as it has been shown BoBBy will not buy out Garys extention regadless of how bad he stinks at his job.



Still not getting this. The offense did enough to win. If we get one stop there at the end of the game we win.

We stopped them, twice. But penalties put them on the one yard line. How in the hello are we blaming the offense? Blame the coach, I get that.

But not because of the offense.

ObsiWan
12-24-2011, 06:35 PM
:rolleyes: Kubiak could commit 1st degree murder and you'd have the same people running in here and making excuses for why he did it.

Fact is He put the handcuffs back on and went super conservative and don't give me the injury excuse...because that's not how he coached when the division was still up for grabs. Matt Schaub is not going to walk through that door, Yates is what we have under center until next year so let him freaking play......and if you don't trust him, then pull him and give someone else a shot. You can't hide your QB in the playoffs so instead of wasting valuable snaps during these last few games, he should've used them to get T.J. ready for the playoffs.

Kubiak coaches like a scared wussy....not surprising for a guy who can't even watch his kicker kick FGs.

Have you rewatched the Cincy or Atlanta game?
The only deep pass was that 50-yd strike to AJ. Yates hit AJ for 50, 22, 20, and 5 yd strikes in that game. He went deep to JJ twice and came up empty.

In the Cincy game he went deep twice. Once to JJ (that he should have caught) and to OD once for 27 yds. Nothing else deep. Even on the winning drive, there were no passes of 20 yds or more.

Point is, since AJ went down the kid has always been prone to throw underneath; even in the victories. Maybe he doesn't have confidence in the other guys or could it be that the other guys just cannot get open so he takes what the defense is giving him?

We saw in the last game the O-line couldn't give him sufficient time to even throw short, let alone look downfield.

But hey, keep blaming the coach instead of holding the players responsible to do their damned jobs if that makes you happy.
:texflag:

Surreal McCoy
12-24-2011, 06:41 PM
But hey, keep blaming the coach instead of holding the players responsible to do their damned jobs if that makes you happy.
:texflag:

It is, and always has been, more about being "right" than about supporting a team with these folks. You'll never convince them. Even if we were to win the Superbowl they'd make some claim about the opponent being sub-par or something equally ridiculous :)

Carr Bombed
12-24-2011, 06:54 PM
Have you rewatched the Cincy or Atlanta game?
The only deep pass was that 50-yd strike to AJ. Yates hit AJ for 50, 22, 20, and 5 yd strikes in that game. He went deep to JJ twice and came up empty.

In the Cincy game he went deep twice. Once to JJ (that he should have caught) and to OD once for 27 yds. Nothing else deep. Even on the winning drive, there were no passes of 20 yds or more.

Point is, since AJ went down the kid has always been prone to throw underneath; even in the victories. Maybe he doesn't have confidence in the other guys or could it be that the other guys just cannot get open so he takes what the defense is giving him?

We saw in the last game the O-line couldn't give him sufficient time to even throw short, let alone look downfield.

But hey, keep blaming the coach instead of holding the players responsible to do their damned jobs if that makes you happy.
:texflag:

:toropalm: He handed the ball off on 3rd and 8....What's your rationalization and excuse for that? Keep drinking the koolaid and crapping rainbows though.

Dishman
12-24-2011, 06:59 PM
0-2 without Wade.

Well, if we are going that route, Kubiak is under .500 w/o Wade, but you can bet your bottom dollar someone will explain it away.

Dishman
12-24-2011, 07:09 PM
Still not getting this. The offense did enough to win. If we get one stop there at the end of the game we win.

We stopped them, twice. But penalties put them on the one yard line. How in the hello are we blaming the offense? Blame the coach, I get that.

But not because of the offense.

Merry Christmas and all, but are you really blowing that much smoke up your own ass to believe this? The offense did enough to win? No, I'm sorry, but it was the D that played to win the game. Some costly mistakes on D, bad calls by the refs contributed to this loss, but the offense has puckered up. The O-line looked like an embarrassment and the playcalling had all of the hallmarks of a Kubiak turtle game.

If we get one stop at the end of the game you say? You should wonder aloud why the team was in this position in the first place. It was not the defense. How about the offense do whatever they can to sustain a drive? Nah, that might take some guts, like calling a play off script or outside of the box.

We lost to the effin' 1-13 Colts who, I would venture to say, are in a worse position than us team-wise. We rolled over for them and the beat the Tits. We should all be concerned the Tits are now about to punch this team in the junk and not because of the defense not making a stop.

EllisUnit
12-24-2011, 07:13 PM
Merry Christmas and all, but are you really blowing that much smoke up your own ass to believe this? The offense did enough to win? No, I'm sorry, but it was the D that played to win the game. Some costly mistakes on D, bad calls by the refs contributed to this loss, but the offense has puckered up. The O-line looked like an embarrassment and the playcalling had all of the hallmarks of a Kubiak turtle game.

If we get one stop at the end of the game you say? You should wonder aloud why the team was in this position in the first place. It was not the defense. How about the offense do whatever they can to sustain a drive? Nah, that might take some guts, like calling a play off script or outside of the box.

We lost to the effin' 1-13 Colts who, I would venture to say, are in a worse position than us team-wise. We rolled over for them and the beat the Tits. We should all be concerned the Tits are now about to punch this team in the junk and not because of the defense not making a stop.


Yeah since when has scoring (1) TD been good enough for an offense ?
And it was the defense that set them up with that REALLY short field to begin with :toropalm: .

thunderkyss
12-24-2011, 07:40 PM
We had the lead with 1:56 to go. That's enough, regardless what the score is.

The kid wasn't throwing it downfield when he had the opportunity, why think giving him more opportunities would change that?

We had the lead, we got the stop, twice. But the penalties extended their drive.

Blaming the offensive game plan doesn't make sense.

We get a stop, the game is over, we win. You can say that with certainty. Throwing the ball more does not guarantee we are in a better position with 1:56 to go.

Dishman
12-24-2011, 09:10 PM
We had the lead with 1:56 to go. That's enough, regardless what the score is.

The kid wasn't throwing it downfield when he had the opportunity, why think giving him more opportunities would change that?

We had the lead, we got the stop, twice. But the penalties extended their drive.

Blaming the offensive game plan doesn't make sense.

We get a stop, the game is over, we win. You can say that with certainty. Throwing the ball more does not guarantee we are in a better position with 1:56 to go.

By your own logic had we scored a TD the defensive stop/nonstop would be irrelevant. Penalties would have been moot. I merrily applaud your unwavering position though, I just can't agree. Let's keep our fingers crossed for a playoff win.

thunderkyss
12-24-2011, 10:06 PM
DBy your own logic had we scored a TD the defensive stop/nonstop would be irrelevant. Penalties would have been moot. I merrily applaud your unwavering position though, I just can't agree. Let's keep our fingers crossed for a playoff win.

We can play what ifs all day long, & if you know me, you know I love that game. But today, reality is on my side. The offense handed the defense the lead, a short clock, no timeouts, and a long field.

If you believe we should have scored a touchdown there, then there is no way you dont believe we should have got that stop.

It's easy to Monday morning this thing to death. But the fact remains our defense had an opportunity to win the game vs Dan Orlovsky and the Colts, i'd take that bet 10 times out of 10.

Tj vs Freeney & Mathis or DanO vs Cushing & Watt, where you putting your money?

Dishman
12-24-2011, 10:12 PM
We can play what ifs all day long, & if you know me, you know I love that game. But today, reality is on my side. The offense handed the defense the lead, a short clock, no timeouts, and a long field.

If you believe we should have scored a touchdown there, then there is no way you dont believe we should have got that stop.

It's easy to Monday morning this thing to death. But the fave remains our defense had an opportunity to win the game vs Dan Orlovsky and the Colts, i'd take that bet 10 times out of 10.

Th vs Freeney & Mathis or Dani vs Cushing & Watt, where you putting your money?

The sole reason offense had the lead was due to the defense. In fact, let's all remember that the Colts essentially handed the Texans 7 points in the opening minutes due to a fumble caused by the Texans defense. Had it not been for that short field provided to the Texan's offense by their defense I shudder to think that we could have been down to the Colts at halftime.

thunderkyss
12-24-2011, 10:23 PM
The sole reason offense had the lead was due to the defense. In fact, let's all remember that the Colts essentially handed the Texans 7 points in the opening minutes due to a fumble caused by the Texans defense. Had it not been for that short field provided to the Texan's offense by their defense I shudder to think that we could have been down to the Colts at halftime.

It's definetly a team game. The defense played better than the offense all night long. But as bad as the offense played, we had the lead with less than two minutes to play.

That's really all you can ask for with a third string QB

gafftop
12-24-2011, 10:25 PM
It seems that some people just don't have the capability of understanding why so many people are criticizing Kubiak after this game and then looking back at the last 3 games. People realize that the team has had all types of injuries and stuff like that. People want to see the HC going for the win any way possible though. They don't want to see a conservative game plan just because Yates is a rookie. Hell this same rookie had a very impressive drive against one of the best defenses in the NFL to win the game in the clutch. People are watching a HC pull back the reigns completely on this offense giving other teams a competitive advantage. Most fans realize that Yates is a young QB that is going to make mistakes here and there, but they want to see the kid allowed to actually play and try to put up points on offense. Kubiak is coaching to where it has to be all on the defense and the running game to win the game which is handcuffing the team at this juncture. I don't doubt one bit that folks would be just fine with Kubiak if he was allowing Yates and the rest of the offense to make plays. He's not!! It's that simple. NOthing more complicated about it. Allow your team the chance to win the game and PLAY TO WIN instead of playing to stay in the game and hoping that your defense can create a few TO's for some easy FG's to win with an offensive output of 13 points.

I agree 100%
I have been saying this for years. This is not really new for Kubiak. He has just taken it up a notch.

TexansFanatic
12-24-2011, 11:52 PM
The Indianapolis defense has given up 27.4 points per game this season.

The Texans scored 16 points Thursday night.

The Texans offense scored 11.4 points fewer than Indy's other opponents.

The Indianapolis offense has scored an average of 15.3 points per game.

The Texans defense gave up 19 points Thursday night.

The Texans defense gave up 3.7 points more than Indy's other opponents this season.

Texans offense: 11.4 points below average
Texans defense: 3.7 points above average

This game should have been put away --- with more offensive output --- in the first half.

dream_team
12-25-2011, 02:24 AM
We have the #2 ranked defense, as well as the #2 ranked rushing offense. I don't understand why you guys want to put more responsibility on a 3rd string rookie QB, without our #1 receiver, as well as a Owen Daniels that wasn't 100%. Not to mention, the OL was struggling all game against the Colts pass rush.

On TV, I couldn't see all of the routes the receivers were running. But I did see in two of the naked boots, the Texans had Dreesen running an underneath route, and a receiver running a deep post. On both instances, both receivers were open. Only Yates knows why he didn't opt for the deep post. Makes me wonder how many other deep routes are open, but Yates isn't simply throwing to them?

I have no problems with Kubiak's game plan. I would have came in with the same mindset to run first, pass second, don't turn the ball over, and rely on the defense to protect the lead. There was simply poor execution by the players. Maybe the poor execution is because of Kubiak? But as for the play calling and game plan, I had no big problems with it.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 02:49 AM
We have the #2 ranked defense, as well as the #2 ranked rushing offense. I don't understand why you guys want to put more responsibility on a 3rd string rookie QB, without our #1 receiver, as well as a Owen Daniels that wasn't 100%. Not to mention, the OL was struggling all game against the Colts pass rush.

On TV, I couldn't see all of the routes the receivers were running. But I did see in two of the naked boots, the Texans had Dreesen running an underneath route, and a receiver running a deep post. On both instances, both receivers were open. Only Yates knows why he didn't opt for the deep post. Makes me wonder how many other deep routes are open, but Yates isn't simply throwing to them?

I have no problems with Kubiak's game plan. I would have came in with the same mindset to run first, pass second, don't turn the ball over, and rely on the defense to protect the lead. There was simply poor execution by the players. Maybe the poor execution is because of Kubiak? But as for the play calling and game plan, I had no big problems with it.

So you'd run on 3rd and 8? Okay. This isn't even about the amount of passing plays, it has to do with the type of plays that were called. A lot of screens and during big plays of the game we took the ball out of his hands.

We're about to play a playoff game...seeding aside, we should've been spending that time trying to get the kid ready for that playoff game. You can't hide your QB in the NFL..regardless if you have the #2 ranked defense and running game. Kubiak should've spent the last couple of weeks trying to prepare this kid, not cuff him. For one if he fell flat on his face we'd know that we need to give Jake a shot...and if Yates hit homeruns Kubiak would know that was his guy. Now we're left where we're at....Yates ability is in question and we don't know shit about his backups.

Y'all can try to cut it any way y'all want to...at the end of the day, it's shitty coaching and the man coached scared, not like a guy who has nothing to lose....and with all of the injuries that's EXACTLY WHAT HE IS. He'll still have a job here next season regardless of what happens this season, so he needs to coach like it..he literally has nothing to lose.

TexansFanatic
12-25-2011, 03:07 AM
We're about to play a playoff game...seeding aside, we should've been spending that time trying to get the kid ready for that playoff game.

Precisely.

Gary chose to play not to lose and--- in doing so ---he lost.

If he had opened up the playbook and gone balls to the wall and lost, at least he would have added some seasoning to his young quarterback.

As it is, the Texans are now limping into the playoffs where Gary will almost certainly use more of the same lame ass strategy of getting a small lead and trying to nurse it.

ObsiWan
12-25-2011, 10:34 AM
:toropalm: He handed the ball off on 3rd and 8....What's your rationalization and excuse for that? Keep drinking the koolaid and crapping rainbows though.

You mean the 3rd & 8 when we were inside the ten?
...in the second quarter.


I suppose you wanted Yates to drop back in his own endzone and give Mathis a shot at another strip sack and TD??

Given the way Mathis and Anderson were abusing Winston, I have no problem with that call.

If there's another 3rd & 8 run play you speak of you'll have to point it out to me. I've gone over the play-by-play 4 times and that's the only one I can find.

HJam72
12-25-2011, 10:37 AM
You mean the 3rd & 8 when we were inside the ten?
...in the second quarter.


I suppose you wanted Yates to drop back in his own endzone and give Mathis a shot at another strip sack and TD??

Given the way Mathis and Anderson were abusing Winston, I have no problem with that call.

If there's another 3rd & 8 run play you speak of you'll have to point it out to me. I've gone over the play-by-play 4 times and that's the only one I can find.

Haha. He just said it to get you to do that. :jk:

ObsiWan
12-25-2011, 10:46 AM
The Indianapolis defense has given up 27.4 points per game this season.

The Texans scored 16 points Thursday night.

The Texans offense scored 11.4 points fewer than Indy's other opponents.

The Indianapolis offense has scored an average of 15.3 points per game.

The Texans defense gave up 19 points Thursday night.

The Texans defense gave up 3.7 points more than Indy's other opponents this season.

Texans offense: 11.4 points below average
Texans defense: 3.7 points above average

This game should have been put away --- with more offensive output --- in the first half.

You forgot the fact that, with Yates at QB, our offense is only averaging 16.5 pts/game.

But I'm sure you'll blame that on Kubiak having some sort of invisible X-Box controller dictating where and when Yates decides to throw.

Bottom line, to me, is that this offense really misses Schaub at the controls. If Schaub had been running the offense, and assuming the same outstanding game from Foster, the game would have been over in the 1st half.

EllisUnit
12-25-2011, 10:47 AM
Yeah since when has scoring (1) TD been good enough for an offense ?
And it was the defense that set them up with that REALLY short field to begin with :toropalm: .

please explain this to me TK, cause the defense made stop after stop after stop, and the Offense did nothing with them, how can you say thats not on the offense. So your saying that scoring 1 TD a game is enough, correct ?

ObsiWan
12-25-2011, 10:48 AM
Haha. He just said it to get you to do that. :jk:

Hey, it's what engineers do. We go over the data to take the emotions out of decision making.

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 01:13 PM
You mean the 3rd & 8 when we were inside the ten?
...in the second quarter.


I suppose you wanted Yates to drop back in his own endzone and give Mathis a shot at another strip sack and TD??

Given the way Mathis and Anderson were abusing Winston, I have no problem with that call.

If there's another 3rd & 8 run play you speak of you'll have to point it out to me. I've gone over the play-by-play 4 times and that's the only one I can find.

I support the gameplan, I dont support that call. Run it out of the shotgun maybe. But id rather see the kid drop back & throw it away if he has to.

TexansFanatic
12-25-2011, 01:26 PM
You forgot the fact that, with Yates at QB, our offense is only averaging 16.5 pts/game.

But I'm sure you'll blame that on Kubiak having some sort of invisible X-Box controller dictating where and when Yates decides to throw.

Yeah, he kinda does. He calls the plays.

I understand there have been plays Yates could have made and didn't. But there's no getting around the fact that he threw the ball only 16 times on Thursday night.

That's on Kubiak.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 01:48 PM
You mean the 3rd & 8 when we were inside the ten?
...in the second quarter.


I suppose you wanted Yates to drop back in his own endzone and give Mathis a shot at another strip sack and TD??

Given the way Mathis and Anderson were abusing Winston, I have no problem with that call.

If there's another 3rd & 8 run play you speak of you'll have to point it out to me. I've gone over the play-by-play 4 times and that's the only one I can find.

:vincepalm: You mean like he was allowed to do against Cincy (Who had a MUCH better defense)...which spurred our comeback.

:rolleyes: more rainbows and excuses.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 01:49 PM
Hey, it's what engineers do. We go over the data to take the emotions out of decision making.

It kinda defeats the purpose when you can't read the data.

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 03:18 PM
:vincepalm: You mean like he was allowed to do against Cincy (Who had a MUCH better defense)...which spurred our comeback.

:rolleyes: more rainbows and excuses.

He dropped back three straight times in our own end zone on one of our possessions in this game, we got nothing out of them & had to punt.

Kubiak gave him the opportunity.

3 & out.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 03:25 PM
He dropped back three straight times in our own end zone on one of our possessions in this game, we got nothing out of them & had to punt.

Kubiak gave him the opportunity.

3 & out.

Umm...no he didn't give him the opportunity. On 3rd and 8 he handed the ball off. I don't care about other plays. On 3rd and 8 he passed the buck. When you hand the ball off on 3rd and long you're basically forfeiting possession of the ball....hence playing not to lose and that's basically what it boils down to. Nobody in their right mind can say we played to win that game...not even the biggest Kubiak apologists can say that with a straight face. We didn't play to win that game and the game plan wasn't geared towards that, it was setup to not to lose and when you do that you take the chance at keeping the game close, having bogus penalties dictate the outcome of the game, and losing the game. I want a coach who has the testicular fortitude to go down swinging, not a coach who just lays down.

Lucky
12-25-2011, 04:12 PM
He dropped back three straight times in our own end zone on one of our possessions in this game, we got nothing out of them & had to punt.

Kubiak gave him the opportunity.

3 & out.
This never happened.

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 04:16 PM
:vincepalm: You mean like he was allowed to do against Cincy (Who had a MUCH better defense)...which spurred our comeback.

:rolleyes: more rainbows and excuses.

Yes, the same way Tj was allowed to drop back in his own end zone, Kubiak had him drop back 3 straight times in this game. We got nothing & had to punt.

Kubiak gave him a chance then.

You cant question the game plan & say we didn't play to win without looking at the whole game.

I dont agree with the 3rd & 8 call either have no idea what he was thinking. But I'm sure he based his decision on how he felt the game was going.

You know all to well that Kubiak has trusted his players in this situation only to be screwed by a stupid decision. The one thing you dont want to happen on that play, a sack, an INT, a fumble returned for a touch down.

Kick the field goal, give them a long field & put them against the #2 pass defense in the league with no time outs & less than 2 minutes to play.

That may not have been the way you or I would have played it, but it's a viable strategy that makes sense & should have won the game.

And yes, I say should have, knowing your way does not increase our odds of winnning that game. If we threw the ball & didn't get sacked, stripped or threw an interception, maybe we get that first down, maybe we run off more clock, maybe we score, then maybe we win the game.

Maybe.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 04:48 PM
Yes, the same way Tj was allowed to drop back in his own end zone, Kubiak had him drop back 3 straight times in this game. We got nothing & had to punt.

Kubiak gave him a chance then.

You cant question the game plan & say we didn't play to win without looking at the whole game.

I dont agree with the 3rd & 8 call either have no idea what he was thinking. But I'm sure he based his decision on how he felt the game was going.

You know all to well that Kubiak has trusted his players in this situation only to be screwed by a stupid decision. The one thing you dont want to happen on that play, a sack, an INT, a fumble returned for a touch down.

Kick the field goal, give them a long field & put them against the #2 pass defense in the league with no time outs & less than 2 minutes to play.

That may not have been the way you or I would have played it, but it's a viable strategy that makes sense & should have won the game.

And yes, I say should have, knowing your way does not increase our odds of winnning that game. If we threw the ball & didn't get sacked, stripped or threw an interception, maybe we get that first down, maybe we run off more clock, maybe we score, then maybe we win the game.

Maybe.

What exactly is your goal here? You see the game the way you see it and I see it the way I see it...you aren't going to change my opinion here. Gary Kubiak called a conservative game and sat on every lead that he had...AND THAT'S THE TRUTH. If you want to make excuses or act like the offense had nothing to do with the loss or played well enough to win, that's your deal..not mine.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 04:50 PM
This never happened.

I wasn't going to say anything, because I didn't want to waste the time looking up the facts, but I didn't remember that happening either.

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 04:58 PM
This never happened.

You're right, I remembered it wrong.

But Tj did drop back into the endzone... only once, not 3 times back-to-back like I said.

It was on our third possession.

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 05:02 PM
What exactly is your goal here? You see the game the way you see it and I see it the way I see it...you aren't going to change my opinion here. Gary Kubiak called a conservative game and sat on every lead that he had...AND THAT'S THE TRUTH. If you want to make excuses or act like the offense had nothing to do with the loss or played well enough to win, that's your deal..not mine.

I'm just trying to help. I see us working on the game plan that is going to get us wins in the post season.

I'm disappointed in the loss, but I'm not mad.

I'm still optimistic for a deep play-off run. Looking at the games the way I see them points directly to that.

You're seeing no way we win one game, much less two unless we do something drastically different. My way, with or without Aj, with or without Wade, we're going to the AFC Championship game with a chance to win.

You don't want to be a part of that, that's on you. You'd rather know better & second guess the same game plan that got us here, that's your deal.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 05:04 PM
I'm just trying to help. I see us working on the game plan that is going to get us wins in the post season.

I'm disappointed in the loss, but I'm not mad.

I'm still optimistic for a deep play-off run. Looking at the games the way I see them points directly to that.

You're seeing no way we win one game, much less two unless we do something drastically different. My way, with or without Aj, with or without Wade, we're going to the AFC Championship game with a chance to win.

You don't want to be a part of that, that's on you. You'd rather know better & second guess the same game plan that got us here, that's your deal.

You can't hide your QB in the NFL and you certainly can't hide him in the playoffs...that type of game plan will not net us any wins in the postseason (LMAO that game plan couldn't even get us a win against a team that was 1-14 and starting Dan Orlovsky :)). What Kubiak should've been doing during all these last few games is prepare his QB to play in the postseason, not try to protect him.

EllisUnit
12-25-2011, 05:13 PM
I wasn't going to say anything, because I didn't want to waste the time looking up the facts, but I didn't remember that happening either.

i am looking at the play by play and i dont see it either, nor do i remeber it happening.

here we go.

1st possesion
run
run
TD

2nd
Run
pass/fumble

3rd
run
pass
3rd and 9 RUN
Punt

4th
pass for 29 yards
run
run
pass
pass pass
FG

5th
run
run
run
pass
punt

6th
pass
run
3rd and 8 run
punt

7th
pass
run
pass
punt

8th
pass
rush
pass
rush
2nd and 12 rush
pass
punt

9th
run
run
pass
3rd and 15 Run
punt

10th
pass
run/reverse
run
pass
pass
punt

11th
pass
run
pass
run
run
run
run
pass
run
pass
run
run
run
FG

12th
pass
pass

now i see NO 3 consecutive passes that led to a punt, i do however see A LOT of 3rd and 8+ runs.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 05:31 PM
i am looking at the play by play and i dont see it either, nor do i remember it happening.

here we go.

1st possesion
run
run
TD

2nd
Run
pass/fumble

3rd
run
pass
3rd and 9 RUN
Punt

4th
pass for 29 yards
run
run
pass
pass pass
FG

5th
run
run
run
pass
punt

6th
pass
run
3rd and 8 run
punt

7th
pass
run
pass
punt

8th
pass
rush
pass
rush
2nd and 12 rush
pass
punt

9th
run
run
pass
3rd and 15 Run
punt

10th
pass
run/reverse
run
pass
pass
punt

11th
pass
run
pass
run
run
run
run
pass
run
pass
run
run
run
FG

12th
pass
pass

now i see NO 3 consecutive passes that led to a punt, i do however see A LOT of 3rd and 8+ runs.

:vincepalm: It was actually worse than I thought. Thanks for taking the time to pull all that up.

steelbtexan
12-25-2011, 05:32 PM
TK,

Do you honestly believe the Texans can win a game in the playoffs throwing the ball less than a high school team, and not throwing a single pass deep all game long?

Yeah that's a receipe for success in the playoffs.

Gary is what Gary is. (Scared of his own shadow/ classic overthinker) It doesn't suprise me that engineering minds would agree with Garys losing strategy. I mean, Garys strategy isn't even good enough to beat a 1 win Colt team and some still agree with Garys strategy.

Playoffs? Playoffs? = Garys still a losing HC that will get an extention. Rinse/Wash/Repeat. Looks like 3 more yrs of the same old same old.

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 05:38 PM
You can't hide your QB in the NFL and you certainly can't hide him in the playoffs...that type of game plan will not net us any wins in the postseason (LMAO that game plan couldn't even get us a win against a team that was 1-14 and starting Dan Orlovsky :)). What Kubiak should've been doing during all these last few games is prepare his QB to play in the postseason, not try to protect him.

I don't think it's about protecting your QB. Look at the losses with Matt Schaub, 51 pass attempts vs Oakland, 37 vs Baltimore, 39 against the Saints.

Look at our wins, Miami & Jacksonville are the only ones we threw the ball close to 30 times.

Scrub offenses, yes, but we're scoring 17, 24, & 30 points on top 10 defenses. There is only one good offense in the AFC play-offs this year & we won't see them until the AFC Championship game.

Run game, defense, that's going to get us to the AFC Championship game & give us a chance to win it. Smart passing from the QB position is going to be needed, but we don't need him trying to win the game with 30+ throws. That's suicide.

3rd & 8 should be a throwing down...... maybe Kubiak wanted to see how we would play against a "real" defense in the post season on 3rd & 2 in the red-zone.... I don't know. I don't agree with it, but I don't think it cost us the game.

I don't buy the "turtling up" excuse either, because we've been in worse positions before & he allowed Tj to throw us out of them. There had to be something else to that decision, & I think it had something to do with winning in the post season.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 05:41 PM
I don't think it's about protecting your QB. Look at the losses with Matt Schaub, 51 pass attempts vs Oakland, 37 vs Baltimore, 39 against the Saints.

Look at our wins, Miami & Jacksonville are the only ones we threw the ball close to 30 times.

Scrub offenses, yes, but we're scoring 17, 24, & 30 points on top 10 defenses. There is only one good offense in the AFC play-offs this year & we won't see them until the AFC Championship game.

Run game, defense, that's going to get us to the AFC Championship game & give us a chance to win it. Smart passing from the QB position is going to be needed, but we don't need him trying to win the game with 30+ throws. That's suicide.

3rd & 8 should be a throwing down...... maybe Kubiak wanted to see how we would play against a "real" defense in the post season on 3rd & 2 in the red-zone.... I don't know. I don't agree with it, but I don't think it cost us the game.

I don't buy the "turtling up" excuse either, because we've been in worse positions before & he allowed Tj to throw us out of them. There had to be something else to that decision, & I think it had something to do with winning in the post season.

I think you're completely missing the point here... It's not just about "pass attempt totals". That's not even my big gripe here. It's about down/distance and the scenarios in which we're passing or not passing on. Running the ball on 3rd and longs is forfeiting possessions and the reason why we were so shitty in the T.O.P. and 3rd down conversions

ljhog
12-25-2011, 05:41 PM
Jacoby Jones can't replace Andre Johnson so what we're left with is the run game and short passing game. It is not enough in the NFL.

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 05:44 PM
TK,

Do you honestly believe the Texans can win a game in the playoffs throwing the ball less than a high school team, and not throwing a single pass deep all game long?

Yeah that's a receipe for success in the playoffs.

Gary is what Gary is. (Scared of his own shadow/ classic overthinker) It doesn't suprise me that engineering minds would agree with Garys losing strategy. I mean, Garys strategy isn't even good enough to beat a 1 win Colt team and some still agree with Garys strategy.

Playoffs? Playoffs? = Garys still a losing HC that will get an extention. Rinse/Wash/Repeat. Looks like 3 more yrs of the same old same old.

Not throwing downfield.... that's not on Gary.... except maybe he told Tj to be ultra conservative.

throwing the ball 20 times or so... definitely, I think it's our best option at this point. We don't have Tom Brady behind center, we don't even have Matt Schaub back there. We've got Tj Yates.

He's going to have his opportunities to throw the ball on 1st down, 2nd down, whatever. But they've got to be smart throws.

If we are in a situation like we were in Cincinnati, or if we're in a position like the Colts were Thursday, I have no doubt that we'll do what we've got to do then. But, our best chance of winning in the post-season is to make sure we are not in that position.

Carr Bombed
12-25-2011, 05:46 PM
:rolleyes: Kubiak could commit 1st degree murder and you'd have the same people running in here and making excuses for why he did it.

:vincepalm:

steelbtexan
12-25-2011, 05:47 PM
You're going to have to throw the ball more than 16 times in a playoff game.

badboy
12-25-2011, 05:52 PM
Funny how people expect Yates to throw downfield when Winston and Caldewll can't hold their blocks.

Kubiak may have called a bad game (which I really can't agree) but what do you expect him to do when Yates doesn't get the protection he needs plus the officials throwing the flags on crucial moments. Colts scored 13 points off BS calls.I expect for him to move a TE over to help out Eric. It's called "in game" management.

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 05:55 PM
I think you're completely missing the point here... It's not just about "pass attempt totals". That's not even my big gripe here. It's about down/distance and the scenarios in which we're passing or not passing on. Running the ball on 3rd and longs is forfeiting possessions and the reason why we were so shitty in the T.O.P. and 3rd down conversions


No, I agree with that.

I'm only arguing against the pass attempt totals thing.

However, I just watched a 3rd & 8 with 8:02 left in the 2nd. We've got 5 guys in the box, run a draw out of the shot-gun & can't pick up a yard.

That's pathetic & worth working on for the play-offs.

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 07:38 PM
I just went through the playbook (as I am watching the game again). We saw 3rd down 10 times. 6 of those times we passed the ball, or attempted to. 1 of the runs was a draw, which I have no problem with. Another was right after Yates got rocked on a Winston allowed sack when he had help to the outside...... I don't have a problem with that one either.

So that leaves two other occasions we ran the ball on 3rd & long. The first one @8:59 in the first qtr & the last one @2:29 in the 4th.


I don't think it is as big an issue as what it's being made out to be.

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 07:39 PM
I also just watched a 2nd & 11 play, with 14:24 left in the 4th. A quick 3 step drop to try to hit Walter on a quick come back route. Vickers is playing offset, to the right. The ball is snapped, Everything looks good up front, except Caldwell is facing two guys coming right at him. He takes the inside guy (which I think he is supposed to do) but Vickers thinks the inside guy is going to get through. He moves to his left really quick, which drives him into Tj. Tj pulls the ball down, luckily saving the fumble, tries to make something out of nothing & gets sacked.

EllisUnit
12-25-2011, 07:43 PM
i am looking at the play by play and i dont see it either, nor do i remeber it happening.

here we go.

1st possesion
run
run
TD

2nd
Run
pass/fumble

3rd
run
pass
3rd and 9 RUN
Punt

4th
pass for 29 yards
run
run
pass
pass pass
FG

5th
run
run
run
pass
punt

6th
pass
run
3rd and 8 run
punt

7th
pass
run
pass
punt

8th
pass
rush
pass
rush
2nd and 12 rush
pass
punt

9th
run
run
pass
3rd and 15 Run
punt

10th
pass
run/reverse
run
pass
pass
punt

11th
pass
run
pass
run
run
run
run
pass
run
pass
run
run
run
FG

12th
pass
pass

now i see NO 3 consecutive passes that led to a punt, i do however see A LOT of 3rd and 8+ runs.

but if u just go back and look at the play selection to me it is more than about 3rd downs.

thunderkyss
12-25-2011, 08:11 PM
So that leaves two other occasions we ran the ball on 3rd & long. The first one @8:59 in the first qtr & the last one @2:29 in the 4th.


I'm watching the last drive now. The Colts start using time outs with 3:29 left in the game. They use their final timeout with 2:29 to go. We are on the 16/17 yard line. We run the ball, to get the clock down to the 2:00 warning before kicking a field goal.

It's 3rd & 8, but I honestly have no problem with the call. We go up by 4, they haven't scored a TD all night.

I also just watched the whole game.... The flow looks good. I didn't then, & I don't find myself now saying, "Man we should be throwing the ball more."

16 pass attempts

23 runs by foster, the last 4 when we're definitely trying to run the clock down.

6 runs by Tate

1 run by Jacoby

1 run by Tj (which was probably supposed to be a pass attempt).

I can unequivocally say I don't have a problem with the way the game was called.

dream_team
12-26-2011, 12:25 AM
I can unequivocally say I don't have a problem with the way the game was called.

I agree.

You call a draw (or a screen) when you think the defense is going to blitz & play man coverage. On that 3rd & 8, he probably thought they were going to bring a blitz... but I don't recall if they actually did or not? Either way, I have no problem with the call. It's one of those... if it works, he's a genius and made a brilliant call. If it fails, people will say "what the *******!?".

TheMatrix31
12-26-2011, 05:20 AM
I agree.

You call a draw (or a screen) when you think the defense is going to blitz & play man coverage. On that 3rd & 8, he probably thought they were going to bring a blitz... but I don't recall if they actually did or not? Either way, I have no problem with the call. It's one of those... if it works, he's a genius and made a brilliant call. If it fails, people will say "what the *******!?".

You can still call something a bad call even if it succeeds just like if a basketball player takes a horrible shot. Even if it goes in its still a horrible shot.

That decision to go conservative go up 4 is only good for me because it forced then to need a TD. I personally would have called something to take us past the first down marker though. Can't call those lame runs.

But it was actually ultimately a successful call, even if it may have been a "bad one" or one I wouldn't have personally made. Ran time off if I recall correctly, forced them to score a TD, and if the refs weren't completely ****ing stupid, the game was over multiple times. If we didn't end up making it a TD game, they were going to kick a FG much more easily.

I personally think all of it is overblown. We had the lead, whatever it was and the game was done. Not our fault the game wasn't done. And like I've said multiple times, yeah you could say "Oh, it shouldn't have come down to that anyway" but that's utopian, pie- in-the-sky nonsense and we were.

Kubiak has "turned Yates loose" before so I dont think it's a trust issue. Has to be due to Andre or, as I also mentioned, the recent success in the running game against the Colts.

Dishman
12-26-2011, 09:47 AM
Scrub offenses, yes, but we're scoring 17, 24, & 30 points on top 10 defenses. There is only one good offense in the AFC play-offs this year & we won't see them until the AFC Championship game.

That really doesn't comfort me. We just let an absolutely terrible offense squeak past us for a win. If our own offense can barely score points then all bets are off facing teams in the playoffs regardless of offensive output.

thunderkyss
12-26-2011, 01:35 PM
That really doesn't comfort me. We just let an absolutely terrible offense squeak past us for a win. If our own offense can barely score points then all bets are off facing teams in the playoffs regardless of offensive output.

Terrible offense?

Our offense is not the 11th rank offense in the league, regardless what our stats say. If we continue to play, the way we are, we would slip closer to the 20th ranked offense in the league.

Dan O didn't look bad facing the #2 defense in the league. If the season was longer than 16 games for them, I think their offensive production would increase. Wayne, Garcon, Collie... looked good & that OL was not horrible. If they can bring that kind of emotion to the rest of the league, I think they'd win more games. Next week, they play the Jags, I bet they beat the Jags.

But, you miss my point alltogether.

The object here, is to run this game plan but score more points. This is the same game plan that put up good point totals against good defenses.

That was with Matt Schaub, this will be with Tj Yates. Think of these last 5 games as preseason. Time to perfect our game plan, to run when they don't want us to run, to force our will on opposing defenses & efficiently score lots of points.

Think of it this way. If losing to the Colts & Titans mean that our offense would be more like it was with Schaub, would you take that trade? Not guaranteeing a win, but we have the same offensive production we have with Matt, averaging 26-27 points, taking big shots down field? winning the T.O.P. by big margins.