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View Full Version : O-line time?


Wolf6151
12-22-2011, 06:51 AM
Yall remember a couple years ago when San Francisco spent two 1st round picks on O-linemen, Iupati and Davis, they bit the bullet and made the investment for the longterm betterment of the team. O-linemen aren't sexy picks but they pay compound dividends in the passing game, running game, and QB protection. Is it time for the Texans to make such a commitment? Other than a WR in the 1st round commiting to quality O-linemen in the 2nd and 3rd rounds would really help our offense in the long run. We also don't have any glaring holes on the team other than WR and this may never happen again, where we have the opportunity to make such an O-line investment. What say you? I'm thinking it's time we get better on the front line.

otisbean
12-22-2011, 08:31 AM
You can never go wrong with drafting OL and pass rushers! I think we are finally to the point where we can go BPA and address specific needs through FA. Given we are are youngish/in our prime, I think we might be more attractive to FAs now. I have a feeling BPA may well be OL and DL/OLB this year.

badboy
12-22-2011, 10:58 AM
I don't think any draft pick available to us for Oline would start before year two & maybe not then. I like Konz, DeCastro & Zeitler in that order. Konz because he can play C and OG. I think first two will be gone when we pick. To me the only two spots that a draft pick should (WR2) and might (NT) start. For me, that means grabbing one of those in first. I think at least three & maybe four NTs will be drafted before our second round. It is merely the drafter's preference on mocks who goes first.

Concerning Oline, I think good back ups can be selected in 4th that could eventually start. Wade Smith's career is winding down & Brisiel is loved by coaches.

Wolf6151
12-22-2011, 11:53 PM
I don't think any draft pick available to us for Oline would start before year two & maybe not then. I like Konz, DeCastro & Zeitler in that order. Konz because he can play C and OG. I think first two will be gone when we pick. To me the only two spots that a draft pick should (WR2) and might (NT) start. For me, that means grabbing one of those in first. I think at least three & maybe four NTs will be drafted before our second round. It is merely the drafter's preference on mocks who goes first.

Concerning Oline, I think good back ups can be selected in 4th that could eventually start. Wade Smith's career is winding down & Brisiel is loved by coaches.


I think we'll have a decent shot at all 3 of the players you listed. Also I'm not talking about drafting backups, I'm talking selecting better quality starters and letting our current starters vastly improve our depth. If we take Zeitler in the 2nd I think he could start in place of Brisiel or Caldwell thus giving us a better starter and improved backups. Again O-linemen aren't sexy picks but a couple studs up front would help alot and most O-linemen have long lasting careers. I just think it's time we spend some high picks on an area of the team that seems to get overlooked.

Insideop
12-23-2011, 11:39 AM
I think we'll have a decent shot at all 3 of the players you listed. Also I'm not talking about drafting backups, I'm talking selecting better quality starters and letting our current starters vastly improve our depth. If we take Zeitler in the 2nd I think he could start in place of Brisiel or Caldwell thus giving us a better starter and improved backups. Again O-linemen aren't sexy picks but a couple studs up front would help alot and most O-linemen have long lasting careers. I just think it's time we spend some high picks on an area of the team that seems to get overlooked.

If they draft an OG early I think it will be to replace Wade Smith, not Brisiel. Wade will be 31 next year entering his 10th season. Say what you want about Brisiel but they haven't won a game since he went down. I know, after watching last night's game, it looked like they were having more success running to the left with Brown and Smith than to the right with Winston and Caldwell, but I still think, if they draft an OG in the 2nd or 3rd, it will be to replace Wade. Also, we still have Shelley Smith sitting on IR and a few others on the roster (Austin Thomas, Andrew Gardner, and Howard Barieri) that could factor in to their decision making. JMHO.

Wolf6151
12-23-2011, 05:52 PM
How bout a new RT in the 2nd round? Who you got?

It's been discussed before, moving Winston to RG, moving Brisiel and Caldwell to backups, and improving the RT with someone new and more athletic. This one move would improve 3 areas of the O-line.

steelbtexan
12-24-2011, 02:45 PM
How bout a new RT in the 2nd round? Who you got?

It's been discussed before, moving Winston to RG, moving Brisiel and Caldwell to backups, and improving the RT with someone new and more athletic. This one move would improve 3 areas of the O-line.

If you want a OT in this draft that can start right away then you're going to have to spend your 1st rd pick on a guy like Mike Adams. He may not even be there when the Texans are picking late in the 1st because of the need for LT's.

I think Adams will be a better RT, the's very strong and has very long arms.

The next tackle that should be in the Texans draft range late in the 2nd should be Levi Adcock, Andrew Datko and Nate Potter.

But there are some very good developmental guys like Tony Bergstrom and Matt McCants who are kind of developmental guys who should be available in Rds 3/4. If It was me I would move Winston inside to OG and if healthy start Butler at RT and draft a Bergstrom/McCants to develop.

Wolf6151
12-24-2011, 06:09 PM
I don't want to spend the 1st round pick on an OT, that'll be used on WR. I'm looking at guys like Matt Reynolds and Rickey Wagner in the 2nd round after moving Winston inside to RG, I think this is a move that's past due. I was also considering Potter and Adcock but think that Adams will be gone in the late 1st round. I hadn't looked at Datko yet, Thanks.

beerlover
12-24-2011, 09:15 PM
Texans have to go OL early to protect Schaub & I don't see any foreseeable replacement in Texans future QB plans. Solid pass pro & better combination blocking is needed. There are some damn fine OT's & OG's in this draft who if available would make excellent first round draft picks (OT - Jeff Riley, Jonathan Martin, Mike Adams. OG - David DeCastro, Cordy Glenn).

steelbtexan
12-25-2011, 12:04 AM
Texans have to go OL early to protect Schaub & I don't see any foreseeable replacement in Texans future QB plans. Solid pass pro & better combination blocking is needed. There are some damn fine OT's & OG's in this draft who if available would make excellent first round draft picks (OT - Jeff Riley, Jonathan Martin, Mike Adams. OG - David DeCastro, Cordy Glenn).

Agreed

This is why I want an OT taken in the 1st rd and a WR signed in FA. Then take a WR as BPA in rds 2-4. Protecting Schaub should be job #1.

Wolf6151
12-25-2011, 01:29 AM
Agreed

This is why I want an OT taken in the 1st rd and a WR signed in FA. Then take a WR as BPA in rds 2-4. Protecting Schaub should be job #1.

I sure wouldn't argue with this approach. Suffice to say major improvement on the O-line is needed. I wonder if Kubiak sees it this way or if his judgement is clouded by the fact that he likes his kids and seems to play favorites and/or is way to patient for their development.

Can Cordy Glenn play RT or is he strictly an OG in the NFL?

beerlover
12-25-2011, 09:45 AM
I sure wouldn't argue with this approach. Suffice to say major improvement on the O-line is needed. I wonder if Kubiak sees it this way or if his judgement is clouded by the fact that he likes his kids and seems to play favorites and/or is way to patient for their development.

Can Cordy Glenn play RT or is he strictly an OG in the NFL?

Cordy Glenn will give the team who drafts him a back-up swing tackle (started all 2011 @ LT) who may be a natural fit @ RT next level? Can come in day one & start LG next to Brown. Near ideal NFL starting caliber size & measureables 6050 320 with probably close to 35" arm length. I have DeCastro rated above him but he is more of a pure LG with all-pro potential.

I can't say if Texans would ever kick Winston inside, kinda doubt it, but it is imperative they have more options depth wise & if they can upgrade Guard position moving forward (Wade turning 31/Brisel injury's) then it makes even more sense. Glenn is athletic enough for ZBS to run in space (play-action) create cut-back lanes, pull & block down-field.

badboy
12-25-2011, 06:19 PM
Just my opinion but neither of our starting tackles are going anywhere. I could see us drafting a OG but believe Konz will either return to college or be gone before we select. I also think DeCastro will be gone. Remains to be seen, I guess.Unless we can get one of the tier one guys, I doubt drafting guard in first.

Insideop
12-26-2011, 01:09 AM
Just my opinion but neither of our starting tackles are going anywhere. I could see us drafting a OG but believe Konz will either return to college or be gone before we select. I also think DeCastro will be gone. Remains to be seen, I guess.Unless we can get one of the tier one guys, I doubt drafting guard in first.

I would be very surprised if we drafted an OG in the 1st too. Maybe the 3rd or 4th, but I just don't think Kubes take one in the 1st. I think they will go WR in the 1st. JMO.

Insideop
12-26-2011, 01:19 AM
Just my opinion but neither of our starting tackles are going anywhere. I could see us drafting a OG but believe Konz will either return to college or be gone before we select. I also think DeCastro will be gone. Remains to be seen, I guess.Unless we can get one of the tier one guys, I doubt drafting guard in first.

I would be very surprised if we drafted an OG in the 1st too. Maybe the 3rd or 4th, but I just don't think Kubes take one in the 1st. I think they will go WR in the 1st. JMO.

badboy
12-26-2011, 09:17 AM
As it stands today we pick no higher than 24th. If that is final #, I think the priority 1 players will be gone and we look next at level 2. There will be some quality players there so let's hope for another great draft! Barkley remaining in school just pushed another player out of our reach.

mussop
12-26-2011, 04:23 PM
I'm looking at guys like Matt Reynolds and Rickey Wagner in the 2nd round after moving Winston inside to RG, I think this is a move that's past due.

Breisel isn't going to be replaced by Winston.

mussop
12-26-2011, 04:34 PM
Just my opinion but neither of our starting tackles are going anywhere. I could see us drafting a OG but believe Konz will either return to college or be gone before we select. I also think DeCastro will be gone. Remains to be seen, I guess.Unless we can get one of the tier one guys, I doubt drafting guard in first.

I agree with all of this. David DeCastro, Stanford could be a possibility but will likely be gone.

Barrett Jones, Alabama seems like a perfect fit and I could see us moving up in the third round or using our second round pick on.

Wolf6151
01-03-2012, 02:19 AM
The more I watch Caldwell play this year, the more I want to move OG, as a need in the 2012 draft, higher. This is really a shame since I wanted the Texans to pick him in the 3rd round and we did. I had such high hopes for Caldwell and he played well the first couple years swapping in and out with Brisiel but he has played terrible this year and been a severe disappointment. I still want a WR in the 1st and OG in the 2nd round but it wouldn't hurt my feelings any if the Texans swapped priorities and took Cordy Glenn (credit to BL here) in the 1st round and then best WR in the 2nd. I think it would shock alot of people but sure wouldn't hurt my feelings at all.

badboy
01-04-2012, 04:24 PM
The more I watch Caldwell play this year, the more I want to move OG, as a need in the 2012 draft, higher. This is really a shame since I wanted the Texans to pick him in the 3rd round and we did. I had such high hopes for Caldwell and he played well the first couple years swapping in and out with Brisiel but he has played terrible this year and been a severe disappointment. I still want a WR in the 1st and OG in the 2nd round but it wouldn't hurt my feelings any if the Texans swapped priorities and took Cordy Glenn (credit to BL here) in the 1st round and then best WR in the 2nd. I think it would shock alot of people but sure wouldn't hurt my feelings at all.I think Zeitler may be avail @ #56.

Wolf6151
01-04-2012, 07:09 PM
I think Zeitler may be avail @ #56.

Depending on who we draft in the 1st round, if Zeitler is available to us in the 2nd then I'd run to the podium with his name in hand.

I know I ask this every year but I wonder if there's any way we can get an extra 2nd round pick. I'd love to get Chapman and Zietler after a WR in the 1st round and neither will be available in the 3rd.

Dutchrudder
01-05-2012, 10:36 AM
Depending on who we draft in the 1st round, if Zeitler is available to us in the 2nd then I'd run to the podium with his name in hand.

I know I ask this every year but I wonder if there's any way we can get an extra 2nd round pick. I'd love to get Chapman and Zietler after a WR in the 1st round and neither will be available in the 3rd.

Last year we gave up an early 3rd and 5th to move up 13 spots into the late 2nd. This year we will be picking at least 21st, so moving up around 30 spots would cost a 3rd and 4th at the very least. The Patriots may be willing to do a trade like that again. They should be picking at least 27th in the round, but is that early enough to get these guys?

Corrosion
01-05-2012, 10:52 AM
I think Zeitler may be avail @ #56.

Ive got a draft-mancrush on Zeitler too .... But Im wondering if he makes it past the end of the first round as Ive seen a few mocks with him going in the 27-30 range usually to Pittsburgh or New England.
Thats something I could see either of those teams doing .... especially Pittsburgh as their OL is aging and depleted. Getting the second best OG prospect in the draft in that range is pretty good value IMO.

Cant see the Texans drafting an OG that high as they have a history of drafting interior OL late.

We may have to set our second round sights elsewhere.

beerlover
01-05-2012, 12:27 PM
Ive got a draft-mancrush on Zeitler too .... But Im wondering if he makes it past the end of the first round as Ive seen a few mocks with him going in the 27-30 range usually to Pittsburgh or New England.
Thats something I could see either of those teams doing .... especially Pittsburgh as their OL is aging and depleted. Getting the second best OG prospect in the draft in that range is pretty good value IMO.

Cant see the Texans drafting an OG that high as they have a history of drafting interior OL late.

We may have to set our second round sights elsewhere.

Zeitler is a solid 2nd rounder. Anticipate a run on OT's early in this draft, filling lower bracketed teams OL's, then better teams filling OG needs in 2nd, with OC's (with exception of Konz) following in 3rd.

Corrosion
01-05-2012, 12:45 PM
Zeitler is a solid 2nd rounder. Anticipate a run on OT's early in this draft, filling lower bracketed teams OL's, then better teams filling OG needs in 2nd, with OC's (with exception of Konz) following in 3rd.

His being a solid second rounder is why I think he could go in the late first to a team who's hurting for interior OL help. It wouldnt be much of a reach at all for a team to pick him 27-30.

Either way , I doubt he would be on the board in the mid to late 50's where the Texans will be picking in that round , even if he fell into the second it would likely require a move up to snag him.

They did move up last year for an additional second rounder , not out of the realm of possibility they moved up into the mid 30's to make such a pick.

beerlover
01-05-2012, 12:56 PM
His being a solid second rounder is why I think he could go in the late first to a team who's hurting for interior OL help. It wouldnt be much of a reach at all for a team to pick him 27-30.

Either way , I doubt he would be on the board in the mid to late 50's where the Texans will be picking in that round , even if he fell into the second it would likely require a move up to snag him.

They did move up last year for an additional second rounder , not out of the realm of possibility they moved up into the mid 30's to make such a pick.

I just don't see the need as much if your comparing it to last year's CB crunch. If they where sure that Jonathan Joseph would turn out to play so well & remain healthy I doubt they would have made the move for Harris. That said they seem to love OL already in place. So even if Zeitler was available late 2nd there is no guarantee Texans would select him.

Corrosion
01-05-2012, 03:37 PM
I just don't see the need as much if your comparing it to last year's CB crunch. If they where sure that Jonathan Joseph would turn out to play so well & remain healthy I doubt they would have made the move for Harris. That said they seem to love OL already in place. So even if Zeitler was available late 2nd there is no guarantee Texans would select him.

I agree with that ....


For the first time in this teams history they dont have any glaring holes outside of WR , they could go any number of directions after filling that need.

Wolf6151
01-05-2012, 05:43 PM
I agree with that ....


For the first time in this teams history they dont have any glaring holes outside of WR , they could go any number of directions after filling that need.

I agree the Texans could go BPA after a WR in the 1st but the Texans usually double dip on needed positions in FA and draft. If they go BPA I'd really like them to put an emphasis on the O-line. Our O-line is good but undersized and our depth leaves alot to be desired. It's past time to put some high level talent on that O-line instead of late round picks and journeymen. Zeitler or Brandon Washington in the 2nd round would be great and then a depth pick like Mitchell Schwartz-OT/OG in the later rounds.

badboy
01-06-2012, 02:55 PM
If Williams signs a cap friendly contract could we be interested in the young Saints OG?

Dutchrudder
01-06-2012, 11:57 PM
If Williams signs a cap friendly contract could we be interested in the young Saints OG?

Carl Nicks is the guy you're talking about. I think he may get away from the Saints in FA due to cap issues. They just gave a great deal to Jahri Evans this past offseason and they need to give Drew Brees a new deal (or at least franchise him) and Marques Colston. Check out the details on Evans' deal:

Saints agreed to terms with RG Jahri Evans on a seven-year, $56.7 million contract.
Averaging $8.1 million annually, the deal makes Evans the richest guard in NFL history. A four-year starter without a single missed game in his career, Evans earned first-team All-Pro honors in 2009. According to Pro Football Focus' metrics, he was the league's best all-around guard and No. 2 run-blocking interior lineman, behind only Jets C Nick Mangold. The new contract puts Evans under control through his age-34 season. Guards have lengthy shelf lives, so it looks to be a worthwhile investment for both sides.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3933/jahri-evans

I don't see Nicks getting much less than that in free agency, unless he gets injured in the next few weeks. Both are thought to be two of the top 8 or so guards in the league and Nicks is almost 2 years younger than Evans. Evans was playing on an RFA deal this year for 2.6 million, so I would expect him to want a HUGE payday in free agency this year. Would love to get him, but I just don't see where we get the money for him without letting Mario go. Myers is going to cost some cash too. I believe Brisiel is also scheduled to be a free agent this year, but I bet we could sign him for cheap. I would love to keep him for depth.

Dutchrudder
01-07-2012, 12:09 AM
Ive got a draft-mancrush on Zeitler too .... But Im wondering if he makes it past the end of the first round as Ive seen a few mocks with him going in the 27-30 range usually to Pittsburgh or New England.
Thats something I could see either of those teams doing .... especially Pittsburgh as their OL is aging and depleted. Getting the second best OG prospect in the draft in that range is pretty good value IMO.

Cant see the Texans drafting an OG that high as they have a history of drafting interior OL late.

We may have to set our second round sights elsewhere.

I don't think the Pats need to go with an offensive linemen in the first, they took an OT last year in the first. Their defense is horrible and I expect them to spend a lot of picks on it. However, the Saints are likely to lose Nicks in free agency, so they may look to fill that hole with their first. The Packers have lost a couple of o-linemen recently to injury and may look to continue to bolster their line. Pitt for sure needs help there and so a lot of the teams at the top of the 2nd round. If the Texans really want this guy to upgrade the RG spot they will have to take him with their 1st pick or do a big trade up.

beerlover
01-07-2012, 12:36 AM
It's so funny to hear some of these names come up again once discussed as draft prospects now highly sought after free agents....

Nicks was not that highly rated coming out of Nebraska. He had some off field issues, remember some ugly whiffs during Senior Bowl week but he possessed a nasty streak that I liked. I graded him out in the 3rd rd. surprised he slipped all to the 5th. Too bad Texans didn't take him instead of Okam in the 5th.

Jahri Evans was no big lock to make it either coming out of small school Bloomsburg. Similar grade to Nicks, this time taken in the 4th rd.

The one thing both players have in common is Aaron Kromer OL coach, both players have really developed & accelerated their skill sets under him. Same can be said when Alex Gibbs came to the Texans that's when they turned it around. He told Rick to get (trade for) Myers & sign free agent Wade Smith.

There is an OL prospect in this draft who the Texans will select. Several good ones to look @ early & in the middle rounds. Seems like they may just wait until late, to develop over time, working them into back-up roles. I just can't convince myself to take one early who would replace anyone we have currently starting :pop:

Wolf6151
01-07-2012, 04:16 AM
I don't see us going after a guy like Carl Nicks in FA, it would be nice if we had that kind of money to spend but we're already near the salary cap and have several free agents of our own to sign. I don't know where we're going to find that money. The only way something like that happens is if we let Mario walk, which I'm not opposed to. I also think we could get a very good OG in the draft in the 1st or 2nd round for a whole lot less money. Like BL said we could draft some mid/late round talent and let them develope but honestly I'm tired of waiting for the O-line to be a priority on this team. I'd like to take a Castro or Glenn in the 1st round or Zeitler or Washington in the 2nd round and then some developmental depth later as well.

Wolf6151
01-07-2012, 07:05 AM
Since the 2012 draft will be so deep at WR, would you guys be willing to wait on a WR until the 2nd round and take a NT or OG in the 1st? I'm thinking something like Cordy Glenn-OG/OT in the 1st and then a WR like McNutt, Streeter, Randle, Toon, Fuller, Jenkins, or Criner in the 2nd round.

steelbtexan
01-07-2012, 08:52 AM
Since the 2012 draft will be so deep at WR, would you guys be willing to wait on a WR until the 2nd round and take a NT or OG in the 1st? I'm thinking something like Cordy Glenn-OG/OT in the 1st and then a WR like McNutt, Streeter, Randle, Toon, Fuller, Jenkins, or Criner in the 2nd round.

We're thinking along the same lines.

I definitely would draft OL in the 1st and might even draft a NT in the 2nd. Then take a WR in the 3rd. One of the guys you listed will probably fall due to teams filling their needs. My personal favorite 2nd tier WR should be availabe in the 3rd rd. (Jordan White)

Stephen Hill is another guy to look at. He's big, tall and fast. Hill set the Ga. Tech record for yds per catch. (30 YPC besting Calvin Johnsons old record) He just hasn't gotten alot of love because of Ga Techs running offense and lack of opportunity. But make no mistake this guys really talented.

The Texans are finally at a point where the Steelers/Pats/Packers are in that there's not a need that has to be reached for. This will help eliminate the mistakes of reaching for need (KJ) like Rick/Gary have done in the past. This is the time that the Texans get to feast on other teams mistakes of reaching for need over BPA. (Sweet) It also helps that the Texans biggest need is an area that the draft is the deepest. (WR)

The neat thing about this yrs WR crop is that the WR's you listed have the ability to be just as good as any other not named Blackmon in this draft. (IMHO) and you can draft a couple of them in the 3/4th rds. The WR's in this draft represent the greatest value of any position available.

badboy
01-09-2012, 04:23 PM
Carl Nicks is the guy you're talking about. I think he may get away from the Saints in FA due to cap issues. They just gave a great deal to Jahri Evans this past offseason and they need to give Drew Brees a new deal (or at least franchise him) and Marques Colston. Check out the details on Evans' deal:



http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3933/jahri-evans

I don't see Nicks getting much less than that in free agency, unless he gets injured in the next few weeks. Both are thought to be two of the top 8 or so guards in the league and Nicks is almost 2 years younger than Evans. Evans was playing on an RFA deal this year for 2.6 million, so I would expect him to want a HUGE payday in free agency this year. Would love to get him, but I just don't see where we get the money for him without letting Mario go. Myers is going to cost some cash too. I believe Brisiel is also scheduled to be a free agent this year, but I bet we could sign him for cheap. I would love to keep him for depth.Thanks for info, I was looking at about $5m for Nicks but oh, well.

mussop
01-10-2012, 11:29 AM
I don't think the Pats need to go with an offensive linemen in the first, they took an OT last year in the first. Their defense is horrible and I expect them to spend a lot of picks on it. However, the Saints are likely to lose Nicks in free agency, so they may look to fill that hole with their first. The Packers have lost a couple of o-linemen recently to injury and may look to continue to bolster their line. Pitt for sure needs help there and so a lot of the teams at the top of the 2nd round. If the Texans really want this guy to upgrade the RG spot they will have to take him with their 1st pick or do a big trade up.

Dont forget the Cowpies. They need OL bad. I can see them OG at 14.

SAMURAITEXAN
01-16-2012, 06:11 PM
You know what I would like to see is for yall to come up with new mock like the last year(I think it was by badboy, BL, and was it wolf or martin or steelblue?) which I enjoyed a lot. So when you guys find time, please do the mock again for 2012. Because, there are a quite few very knowledgeable fans here and should be a great mock when yall put great minds together. My request is to draft WR, ILB(may able to find from OLB prospects), and OG. May be not a whole mock but just for the Texans focus on Texans.