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El Tejano
12-19-2011, 08:45 AM
I wasn't down with him too much this season. Today I realize how much greater his talent is needed. Yates is/will be good. He's not where Schaub is right now. Schaub has/does open up alot of possibilities with our offense and we were getting to a point where we were putting up 40 points because of Schaub combined with our defense.

tedr
12-19-2011, 08:51 AM
I wasn't down with him too much this season. Today I realize how much greater his talent is needed. Yates is/will be good. He's not where Schaub is right now. Schaub has/does open up alot of possibilities with our offense and we were getting to a point where we were putting up 40 points because of Schaub combined with our defense.

I agree. Matt's very good, and we missed him yesterday. Hopefully, he can come back full strength from his injury next year.

That said, if the Texans win the next two, I think everyone on the board would be pretty happy with a 4-1 record with a 3rd string qb playing, even if we don't get a bye.

I would really like to have a qb controversy going into next season, because that would mean we made a really deep run this year.

Premier
12-19-2011, 09:42 AM
we were getting to a point where we were putting up 40 points because of Schaub

or maybe it was the teams we were playing, we only scored 40 points 1 time this year.. and the teams we were blowing out, lets be honest here, they werent exactly good teams. browns, titans, bucs, & colts. what about the games against quality teams? 14 points against baltimore, 17 against the steelers, 20 against the raiders. i dont care who was under center come playoff time. were not scoring 40 points on a jets, steelers, or ravens defense..

if anything after watching yesterdays game, im more concerned about the quality of our defense.. carolina was only the 2nd top 10 offense weve played all season.. maybe our defense is overrated like everyone was saying... theyll bounce back on thursday and pad those stats against the colts to hopefully end the season as the "#1" defense...

IDEXAN
12-19-2011, 09:50 AM
For those of you who've been discounting Schaubs value to the team, even ridiculing Schaub I would hope yesterdays Texans performance was your comeuppance ? I'm not saying TJs really bad performance yesterday was the only reason we lost, but certainly after yesterday it should be painfully clear that he is no where the NFL-calibre QB that Matt Schaub is ?

Speedy
12-19-2011, 10:09 AM
or maybe it was the teams we were playing, we only scored 40 points 1 time this year.. and the teams we were blowing out, lets be honest here, they werent exactly good teams. browns, titans, bucs, & colts. what about the games against quality teams? 14 points against baltimore, 17 against the steelers, 20 against the raiders. i dont care who was under center come playoff time. were not scoring 40 points on a jets, steelers, or ravens defense..

if anything after watching yesterdays game, im more concerned about the quality of our defense.. carolina was only the 2nd top 10 offense weve played all season.. maybe our defense is overrated like everyone was saying... theyll bounce back on thursday and pad those stats against the colts to hopefully end the season as the "#1" defense...

This team averaged 27.3 points a game with Schaub under center. That's down to 17.5 points a game after he went down. That's huge! And that's just points. I'm sure if you looked at yards, 3rd down conversions and the like, there will be similar drop-offs there. Which is understandable with a 5th round rookie who hadn't even suited up all year taking over. I'm just saying the Yates love in here was getting a little ridiculous...people thinking we had a QB controversy and such.

Yeah, Schaub only put up 14, 17 and 20 in a 3 game stretch, and Yates has only started 3 games putting up similar scores, but Yates has yet to prove he can get this team to 27-30 points and in the playoffs there's going to be a few teams that can put points on the board.

The Texans defense is good, but it's not Ravens 2000 good where they can just ride it to the promised land. They're going to have to put some points on the scoreboard.

The rookie has to grow, has to learn on the fly and of course, rookie mistakes will come. You know, we're not trying to find out if we have a QB of the future here. We're about to make a PLAYOFF RUN! I'm beginning to wonder if they should go with a little more experience at the QB position instead of trying to make it work with a rookie who is having to grow up in a hurry and IS going to make rookie mistakes, especially against much better defenses in the playoffs.

I mean, Yates has had a couple of great drives to win a couple of games the D kept you in, showing a lot of promise, but he ain't there yet. And I don't know if he has enough time to get close to "there" for this playoff run.

Kthx
12-19-2011, 10:24 AM
Much like how I didn't jump on the lets Fire Schaub cause TJ Yates won a few games bandwagon (Premier) I won't now jump on the Yates isn't as good as we thought he was bandwagon. Off games happen, even to the best QB's in the league and there are still two games left.

axman40
12-19-2011, 10:38 AM
Much like how I didn't jump on the lets Fire Schaub cause TJ Yates won a few games bandwagon (Premier) I won't now jump on the Yates isn't as good as we thought he was bandwagon. Off games happen, even to the best QB's in the league and there are still two games left.
Are you using calm reasoning on the MB?
:thinking:

Double Barrel
12-19-2011, 10:41 AM
Schaub is in his 5th season of this offense. Dude put up 9000+ yards in 2009/2010. He is definitely missed.

It's tough to compare a rookie with a mere 3 starts under his belt that came off the bench without the benefit of preparation in the off-season.

Yeah, they are both fruit (QBs), but apples and oranges. Schaub is a Pro Bowl caliber veteran, Yates is a rookie.

If anything, yesterday showed us the inherit weakness in this team. We need a QB that can balance out the offense. Establish the pass to set up the run. Score early to set up the defense. It's all a symbiotic relationship.

I think yesterday was more about the team being in a funk from the post-division-winning hangover than anything else.

All this hoopla about #1 defense and two-head monster running game is something they bought into and they seemed to act like they could just show up and win. As the Texans, Packers, and Titans learned yesterday, ANY GIVEN SUNDAY. Never underestimate your opponent in the NFL.

Dutchrudder
12-19-2011, 10:50 AM
This year Schaub was on track for 4000 yards passing, 24 TDs and 10 INTs. 61% completion rate and a 96.8 QB rating. Pretty damn good if you ask me.

So far Yates' stats would make give him 3000 yards, 16 TDs, 6 INTs over 16 games. 54.8% completion rate and an 82.3 QBR.

I'll take a healthy Schaub if he's available, thank you.

VTexan
12-19-2011, 11:06 AM
I'd be interested in seeing Matt Schaub's stats without Andre starting.

thunderkyss
12-19-2011, 11:12 AM
For those of you who've been discounting Schaubs value to the team, even ridiculing Schaub I would hope yesterdays Texans performance was your comeuppance ? I'm not saying TJs really bad performance yesterday was the only reason we lost, but certainly after yesterday it should be painfully clear that he is no where the NFL-calibre QB that Matt Schaub is ?

nope... not going to do it.

We've got at least 3 games left this season. I refuse to wallow in self pitty.

I'm behind Tj Yates, 100%. He's the man & he's going to get us to the Super Bowl. Yesterday was just part of the process. Tj learned a whole lot yesterday, instead of hearing about how fast LBs & DEs are, how quickly holes close up, he's experienced it first hand.

That 21-0 first half was not all on Tj Yates, our veterans screwed the pooch, the #1 defense & #1 RB Duo & #1 OL that is supposed to be a safety net for a young QB let him down.

Period.


Sorry IDTexan, just re-read your post. It's even dumber than I thought. Please find a post, & post it here of anyone saying Tj Yates is the equivalent to Matt Schaub at this point in their respective careers.

.

TexanSam
12-19-2011, 12:31 PM
Our offense hasn't scored more than 21 points in the last 4 games. That's worrisome. Pretty obvious Schaub is our QB no matter how TJ Yates has looked. Just hoping Yates can be a quick learner these last 2 games.

Speedy
12-19-2011, 01:18 PM
I'd be interested in seeing Matt Schaub's stats without Andre starting.

This season;
AJ doesn't start (6 games): 104-179 (58%), 1,518 yds (253/game), 8 TD 3 INT, 8.5 Y/A
AJ starts (4 games): 74-113 (65%), 961 yds (240/game), 7 TD, 3 INT, 8.5 Y/A

PHAROAH
12-19-2011, 01:28 PM
Look guys stop with the stats it's obvious against the better teams we didn't put up big numbers with Shaub & Yates so the point about we scored more with Matt Shaub doesn't matter to me and the fact that we won close games against some really good teams mean more to me than padding stats against the colts, titans, browns etc. Lets stay focused here matt shaub is the better QB right now because he has more experience in this offense versus a guy who has only played in 4 games and started 3 in his rookie season against 5 years as starter for matt!!!

Premier
12-19-2011, 03:47 PM
atlanta, jacksonville, & cincy are 3 of the better defenses we have faced all season, all in the top 10. a perfect example of why saying the team would score more with schaub has no truth to it.. its about quality of the teams weve played.. we saw how this team scored against teams with a good defense when schaub was slinging it.. again... @ravens 14 points, steelers 17, jacksonville 21.. the team putting up 17, 20, 20 against atlanta, @jax, & @cincy seems like a normal game for this team going up against a quality opponent.. all the teams weve blown out or scored 30+ against this season are in the bottom half of defense ratings..

texanmojo
12-19-2011, 04:05 PM
This year Schaub was on track for 4000 yards passing, 24 TDs and 10 INTs. 61% completion rate and a 96.8 QB rating. Pretty damn good if you ask me.

So far Yates' stats would make give him 3000 yards, 16 TDs, 6 INTs over 16 games. 54.8% completion rate and an 82.3 QBR.

I'll take a healthy Schaub if he's available, thank you.

Me too...

Dutchrudder
12-19-2011, 04:48 PM
atlanta, jacksonville, & cincy are 3 of the better defenses we have faced all season, all in the top 10. a perfect example of why saying the team would score more with schaub has no truth to it.. its about quality of the teams weve played.. we saw how this team scored against teams with a good defense when schaub was slinging it.. again... @ravens 14 points, steelers 17, jacksonville 21.. the team putting up 17, 20, 20 against atlanta, @jax, & @cincy seems like a normal game for this team going up against a quality opponent.. all the teams weve blown out or scored 30+ against this season are in the bottom half of defense ratings..

Explain this. There is nothing that I can see that shows any of those three teams being at top 10 pass defense. If you're going to make assertions like that, at least have the decency to do your own homework and backup easily provable conclusions.

Passing YPG allowed rank, Cincy 11, Atl 17, Carolina 18

Avg QB Rating allowed rank, Cincy 20, Atl 14, Carolina 28

On the other hand, some of Schaub's opponents:

Passing YPG allowed rank, Pitt 1, Cleveland 3, Jax 4, Balt 5, Oakland 23

Avg QB Rating allowed, Pitt 4, Cleveland 11, Jax 18, Balt 2, Oakland 10

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/sort/completionPct/position/defense

And just for kicks in regard to this: "17, 20, 20 against atlanta, @jax, & @cincy"

Our scores against these teams with Yates at QB ATL 17, Cincy 20 and Carolina 13

Avg Pts given up per game by them: ATL 20.1, Cincy 20.2, Carolina 26.3

Now looking at that, would you say our offense is performing above or below average? Would you say we scored more or less points on average against those teams? Would you say we would score more or less points with a healthy Matt Schaub in the game? Why?

TexansBull
12-19-2011, 09:08 PM
What people have to realize is there is a possibility of Matt not starting next year due to his injury per some of the threads on this board. It may be TJ's position to lose or win. If the team is hot, and I mean smoking, you go with the hot quarterback. See Brady. But don't get confused like Wade Phillips did with going with Johnson over Flutie in Buffalo.

TJ Yates could make a good story and everyone likes a good story and I think that's the enthusiasm behind him. I am a fan of his but I like a Superbowl better. If its TJ, great. If its Matt great.

I bet McNair and the NFL likes him better too because his story is one that can sell jerseys.

TheDream34
12-19-2011, 09:23 PM
Anyone who thought the texans would be able to remain playing at the high level they were with schaub is just an *****. With schaub under center, this is the most complete team in the afc and a legitimate super bowl contender. With TJ Yates, this team will be fortunate to win a playoff game. TJ will be a good quarterback in the future but he is just too young right now.

BullBlitz
12-19-2011, 09:47 PM
nope... not going to do it.

We've got at least 3 games left this season. I refuse to wallow in self pitty.

I'm behind Tj Yates, 100%. He's the man & he's going to get us to the Super Bowl. Yesterday was just part of the process. Tj learned a whole lot yesterday, instead of hearing about how fast LBs & DEs are, how quickly holes close up, he's experienced it first hand.

That 21-0 first half was not all on Tj Yates, our veterans screwed the pooch, the #1 defense & #1 RB Duo & #1 OL that is supposed to be a safety net for a young QB let him down.

Period.


Sorry IDTexan, just re-read your post. It's even dumber than I thought. Please find a post, & post it here of anyone saying Tj Yates is the equivalent to Matt Schaub at this point in their respective careers.

.

Yates. :toropalm:

No, he's not "going to get us to the Super Bowl".

BullBlitz
12-19-2011, 09:49 PM
For those of you who've been discounting Schaubs value to the team, even ridiculing Schaub I would hope yesterdays Texans performance was your comeuppance ? I'm not saying TJs really bad performance yesterday was the only reason we lost, but certainly after yesterday it should be painfully clear that he is no where the NFL-calibre QB that Matt Schaub is ?

Of course not. Nor should he be.

Ryan
12-19-2011, 09:54 PM
maybe our defense is overrated like everyone was saying... theyll bounce back on thursday and pad those stats against the colts to hopefully end the season as the "#1" defense...


losing the person who runs your defense doesn't exactly make things easier :toropalm:


the last thing our defense is overrated.

dc_txtech
12-19-2011, 10:25 PM
Yates had a bad game, it's not the end of the world. He still exhibited a great control of the offense, he just made a couple of stupid decisions that you would expect a rookie to make.

We can win a Super Bowl with TJ Yates.

:texflag:

leebigeztx
12-20-2011, 12:55 AM
Schaub is what he is. He's a good qb when the pocket is perfect and clean. In the playoffs, thats not going to be the case because the teams you're playing. I think Yates has the mobility inside the pocket to make plays when its not perfect and I think thats whats needed the further you get. Will he have issues as a rookie? Yes, but as he gains experience, he will be a better player in this offense. Stats are for losers and we've seen 4000 yds with losses by schaub. We've seen the pick 6 on out route in games or underthrows that would be easy td by a qb with an arm.

IDEXAN
12-20-2011, 06:19 AM
Last weekend, I was taken aback with the number of “see I told you so…. T.J. Yates should take over for Matt Schaub next year” tweets I received after the game against the Bengals was over. In response, I put out my own tweet:
@LanceZierlein: Awesome win today, but did I watch a different game than everyone else? T.J. Yates had a great final drive but has a long way to go guys.
****
Yates made some great plays down the stretch against the Bengals that we’ll always remember fondly, but the Texans know they can’t stick Yates with the same responsibilities to move the ball that they would stick Schaub with.
http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2011/12/can-we-finally-start-having-a-real-conversation-about-texans/
***********
I basically share the sentiments of Houstons own NFL-guru Lance Zierlein about having TJ in the place of Schaub: it may not necessarily be like night vs day but there's a big, big difference and TJ has miles and miles to go before he's even in the conversation with Matt in terms of being a competent NFL QB.
Is this meant to "bad-mouth" Yates ? Absolutely not because his contribution to the Texans winning the division and getting the team into the playoffs is immense. Under the circumstances he's done more than we could have ever expected of him.

steds
12-20-2011, 07:50 AM
I'd be interested in seeing Matt Schaub's stats without Andre starting.
Slow day at work, so I had a look over Schaub's Texans career.

15 games; 271/428, 63.3%; 3479 yards, 8.1 Y/A; 14 TDs, 10 INTs.

Completely different now to his first year. Won 1 lost 5 without Andre in 07, throwing 2 TDs and 6 INTs. 6-3 in 10/11, with 12 TDs to 4 INTs. How much is that him, and how much the team?

thunderkyss
12-20-2011, 10:38 AM
I basically share the sentiments of Houstons own NFL-guru Lance Zierlein about having TJ in the place of Schaub: it may not necessarily be like night vs day but there's a big, big difference and TJ has miles and miles to go before he's even in the conversation with Matt in terms of being a competent NFL QB.
Is this meant to "bad-mouth" Yates ? Absolutely not because his contribution to the Texans winning the division and getting the team into the playoffs is immense. Under the circumstances he's done more than we could have ever expected of him.

& because of this, we are optimistic this team will be a competent QB this time next year if he remains in the starter role.

It's still all about projections & expectations with TJ. I don't believe there are people saying Tj should replace Schaub now. It's all, "if he continues to progress."

Personally, that hasn't changed. I still like what Tj brings to the table. I still think Matt is more than competent & can get us to the big dance. I think we are in a very good position to see what Tj can do before this team has to make a decision.

Premier
12-20-2011, 10:49 AM
losing the person who runs your defense doesn't exactly make things easier :toropalm:


the last thing our defense is overrated.

does adding smilies to your post make you feel like youve won an argument.? i wasnt aware that wade philips suits up and takes the field... just more excuses, you guys love making excuses...

reggie herring will be the DC on thursday and when the texans shut down the colts it will make your excuses irrelevant.

ckhouston
12-20-2011, 06:14 PM
Schaub has looked just as bad as Yates did .... numerous times. Yates still has a stronger arm, is more mobile, seems to be a willing leader which Matt has never been. If he continues to improve he is the future for now. Trade Matt before the deadline next year and get something for him before his final contract year is up and he just walks.