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TexansFanatic
12-18-2011, 10:39 PM
Am I the only one?

When I watch replays of him I have two thoughts:

(1) My God, what a special back. His moves are so fluid and effortless. It's like he's gliding.

and

(2) Dude, tuck that ball up close to your body!


I think it's a small miracle he hasn't fumbled the ball a hell of a lot more.

Corrosion
12-18-2011, 10:40 PM
From the other thread on the subject of Foster - (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1859195&postcount=12)


Something I noticed on one of the replays of a second half Foster run was the way he was flailing his arm around in traffic .... only the hand and forearm making contact with the ball ..... It reminded me a whole lot of Jacoby Jones during his couple seasons ..... an accident waiting to happen.


I quoted myself :rake:

NastyNate
12-18-2011, 10:44 PM
Tate worries me a lot more than Arian. High and tight damnit, high and tight!

TexansFanatic
12-18-2011, 10:46 PM
http://rotoassist.com/files/2011/08/arian-foster-opwn-2710.jpg

Corrosion
12-18-2011, 11:09 PM
http://rotoassist.com/files/2011/08/arian-foster-opwn-2710.jpg

yep :rake:

edo783
12-18-2011, 11:57 PM
They both need to go watch film of Tiki Barber as he changed from a fumbling machine to a VERY reliable carrier. I was a running back (not a very good one) and I can tell you from experience that you naturally tend to swing the ball out from your body. SEEMS to help with balance and to me seemed to help with my speed (heaven knows I needed all the help there I could get), but I think it is just a matter of gaining confidence in tucking it up tight to your chest in the crook of your arm. These guys can do it. I just hope they can get it done and confidence in it quickly. Nothing will bounce you from the playoffs faster than turn overs.

wildroot
12-19-2011, 12:07 AM
I've been saying this on the other MB for awhile....Foster swings the ball away from his body way too much, just asking for the ball to be knocked out, especially from behind. The bit*h of it is, he looked like he had a good hold on the ball when it was knocked out today in the first drive.

TexansFanatic
12-19-2011, 01:36 AM
And he's done it for years. It needs to stop.

http://fastcache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2008/09/arian_foster.jpg

Corrosion
12-19-2011, 01:37 AM
3 to 1 John McLame does an article on this subject in the coming week. :kitten:

TexansFanatic
12-19-2011, 01:52 AM
His sophomore season of 2006 saw a slight downturn in production, as Foster was limited for the majority of the season with injuries and missed games against Marshall and Memphis. Splitting time with LaMarcus Coker after returning from injury, Foster ended the season with just 322 rushing yards.[9] Tennessee's final game of the season was the 2007 Outback Bowl, in which Foster fumbled with ten minutes remaining deep in Penn State territory.[10] The ball was picked up by cornerback Tony Davis and returned 88 yards for a touchdown, breaking a 10-10 tie and providing the winning points in Penn State's 20-10 victory.

His junior season of 2007 saw Foster take over as the main back, with Montario Hardesty coming in as a substitute. Against Florida, Foster fumbled a left-handed hand-off from injured quarterback Erik Ainge which was recovered by Gators linebacker Dustin Doe and returned eighteen yards for a touchdown.[12] Up to that point Tennessee had been gaining momentum and pulled to within eight points of tying the game, but the botched play made the score 35-20 and triggered a 24-point Florida run to close out the contest.


Foster, who needs 422 yards to become Tennessee's all-time career rushing leader, was involved in a fumble at the goal line against Auburn where he didn't get the handoff cleanly from Crompton. The Tigers recovered for one of their two touchdowns.

Foster spent the second half of the Auburn game as the third-down back, and Hardesty was used as more of the feature back. Foster has been plagued by several costly fumbles during his career at Tennessee.

Arian, you're a world-class running back. Please fix this problem.

hot pickle
12-19-2011, 03:04 AM
young tiki barber lol but better lol

Jaysol
12-19-2011, 05:45 AM
I'm not the most athletic guy, so maybe someone that is can shed some light. Don't you move faster when you allow your arms to move a bit? You don't see sprinters in the Olympics running with their arms stiff against their bodies. I bet it likely aides in balance as well.

I would imagine Foster would likely lose some of explosiveness if he was forcing himself to run in a way that was unnatural to him. A better bet would be to put an emphasis in recognizing when he can have the ball slightly out to facilitate movement, and when he needs to tuck it in tight. And work on transitioning from one to the other efficiently and quickly.

I haven't looked at his previous fumbles much, but the one against the Panthers seemed like it was just excellent defensive plays. I don't think it had anything to do with him not having a good enough grip on the ball.

TimeKiller
12-19-2011, 08:22 AM
I love the way Arian carries the ball.What has he had? TWO fumbles this year??

MadBurgerMaker
12-19-2011, 08:26 AM
I love the way Arian carries the ball.What has he had? TWO fumbles this year??

It's three or four. Not all that much, I guess, but it's been twice in two games now, yes? And early in the games, too, IIRC.

Blake
12-19-2011, 10:10 AM
I kinda give Foster the freedom to do whatever he wants. He for the most part takes care of the ball, and does some amazing stuff with the rock in his hands. Yes he has fumbled a few times this year, but his positive plays far and away outweigh them.

Texan_Bill
12-19-2011, 10:20 AM
I knew of another running back that would hold the ball like a loaf of bread, too. He turned out pretty good.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PnJey_gi_38/S-lPUzsDWfI/AAAAAAAAABo/68X21_vJjDk/s320/earl_campbell.jpg

The guy above had 17 fumbles in his first two seasons and was pretty dern good!! Arian Foster in basically two season has had 8. I'm not too worried about how he carries the ball.

Jaysol
12-19-2011, 12:49 PM
I knew of another running back that would hold the ball like a loaf of bread, too. He turned out pretty good.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PnJey_gi_38/S-lPUzsDWfI/AAAAAAAAABo/68X21_vJjDk/s320/earl_campbell.jpg

The guy above had 17 fumbles in his first two seasons and was pretty dern good!! Arian Foster in basically two season has had 8. I'm not too worried about how he carries the ball.

Love it! Repped.

I'd rather he do it now, get pissed at himself for it and stop it in the future. In the press conference after the game he said he had 3 lost fumbles last year, 3 so far this year, so he believes that it's done for the year. Doesn't want to disappoint the team anymore.

RunTexans
12-19-2011, 02:38 PM
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff395/Metanoia23/walter-payton.jpg

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff395/Metanoia23/images.jpg

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff395/Metanoia23/images-1.jpg

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff395/Metanoia23/images-2.jpg



i think he'll be ok....

Brisco_County
12-19-2011, 03:08 PM
The way he carries the ball is part of his fluidity. It provides a lot of production, and each fumble is the price he must pay for it.

And I doubt it can be changed. The way Foster moves is a full-body coordination, like a dancer. It he tucks in the ball, you won't see the unconscious body control and nuance that makes him so successful.

TexansFanatic
12-19-2011, 03:26 PM
Well this thread certainly took an unexpected turn. I'm sort of surprised to see so many posters shrugging off poor ball carrying technique.

I certainly hope, for Arian's sake, we don't lose a playoff game because of a fumble.

And for the record, just because some of the great running backs in NFL history were prolific yard gainers, that doesn't excuse carrying the ball like a loaf of bread. Some of the great ones also had a reputation for fumbling.

Walter Payton is second on the list of running backs in NFL history for fumbles with 86.

Eric Dickerson had 78 in a shorter career.


Dickerson's Fumble Is Costly, Houston Wins (http://articles.latimes.com/1988-09-05/sports/sp-1138_1_houston-oilers)
September 05, 1988| From Times Wire Services

INDIANAPOLIS Eric Dickerson's fumble gave the Houston Oilers another chance, and Tony Zendejas atoned for two earlier misses with a 35-yard field goal in overtime to beat the Indianapolis Colts, 17-14, Sunday.

TexanSam
12-19-2011, 03:37 PM
He was called Fumbles Foster (or something like that) at Tennessee.

Speedy
12-19-2011, 03:40 PM
Well this thread certainly took an unexpected turn. I'm sort of surprised to see so many posters shrugging off poor ball carrying technique.

I certainly hope, for Arian's sake, we don't lose a playoff game because of a fumble.

And for the record, just because some of the great running backs in NFL history were prolific yard gainers, that doesn't excuse carrying the ball like a loaf of bread. Some of the great ones also had a reputation for fumbling.

Walter Payton is second on the list of running backs in NFL history for fumbles with 86.

Eric Dickerson had 78 in a shorter career.


Dickerson's Fumble Is Costly, Houston Wins (http://articles.latimes.com/1988-09-05/sports/sp-1138_1_houston-oilers)
September 05, 1988| From Times Wire Services

INDIANAPOLIS Eric Dickerson's fumble gave the Houston Oilers another chance, and Tony Zendejas atoned for two earlier misses with a 35-yard field goal in overtime to beat the Indianapolis Colts, 17-14, Sunday.

Yeah, and Payton is 2nd on the list of career rushing attempts too. And Dickerson was top 10 in carries as well.

Foster went 11 straight games without a fumble. Even though he has put it on the ground the last 3 or 4 games, with still just 4 for the season, I don't think he's all of a sudden a fumble machine.

And it hasn't been in open field where he's carrying the ball out like that where he's been losing it. It's pretty much been in tight quarters. The fumble yesterday, the ball was against his body. Now he maybe should have gotten another hand on it, but he wasn't carrying out away from his body like the pics in this thread show.

TexansFanatic
12-19-2011, 03:46 PM
Urban Dictionary: Fostering

A condition in which a person has trouble either catching, or maintaining possession of an item. Usually refers to a pigskin, football or the "rock" but can be applied to dropping Momma's fine china on Thanksgiving Day or dropping a condom behind the headboard during application prior to coitus.

Stems from the word "Fumble" in football, in which a player loses possession of the football. Almost always occurs during moments of acute stress specifically when the desired end-state of a situation is within the grasp of an individual but then victory slips through the fingers of the fostering individual resulting in disaster.

Fostering is not limited to sports:

1) Dude why did you just foster the christmas turkey on the floor? Now we gotta eat spam covered with brown sugar instead.

LINK (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fostering)

TexansFanatic
12-19-2011, 03:58 PM
Yeah, and Payton is 2nd on the list of career rushing attempts too. And Dickerson was top 10 in carries as well.

Walter Payton, carries 3838, fumbles 86

Eric Dickerson, carries 2996, fumbles 78

Curtis Martin, carries 3518, fumbles 29

It's possible to get a lot of carries and a lot of yards and take care of the ball.

EllisUnit
12-19-2011, 05:45 PM
you do know why he has the ball out like that right, you have seen some of the moves he puts on guys, where do you think the balance comes from, if he tucks it in all the time it will greatly affect his running style. Its a win lose situation, BUT i think his running style pays off more often than not.

CloakNNNdagger
12-19-2011, 05:58 PM
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff395/Metanoia23/walter-payton.jpg

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff395/Metanoia23/images.jpg

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff395/Metanoia23/images-1.jpg

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff395/Metanoia23/images-2.jpg



i think he'll be ok....

How many of the above pictures show them in traffic? It is true that many famous RBs will hold their arms out from their bodies at times to achieve better balance. But most will tuck in traffic.

RunTexans
12-19-2011, 06:09 PM
How many of the above pictures show them in traffic? It is true that many famous RBs will hold their arms out from their bodies at times to achieve better balance. But most will tuck in traffic.


Theres traffic everywhere on the field...its football...let it go

EllisUnit
12-19-2011, 06:17 PM
How many of the above pictures show them in traffic? It is true that many famous RBs will hold their arms out from their bodies at times to achieve better balance. But most will tuck in traffic.

while in traffic he is still trying to make guys miss. For foster he always has a chance to break out of traffic. Kind of like the move he made on Troy .P behind the line of scrimmage. You think he could of done that if he had the ball tucked in close ? Foster has some of the best cut backs and jukes i have ever seen a running back have, and he does it all and does not lose much if any speed.

Barry sanders, Dickerson and all big time old prolific ball carriers were good, and could juke, but if you watch they nearly had to come to a complete stop do do what foster does at full speed. IMO they will show videos of foster one day and people will be amazed no matter how often they see it !!!

kingh99
12-19-2011, 07:47 PM
I doubt the players read comments by the public but you have to assume they hear about it from coaches and family. That's not necessarily a good thing. Think about how many balls Yates tried to aim yesterday, all the low passes. Overthrowing appears to now be in his head. We don't need Arian focused on holding so much he losses his creativity. The best runs he had this year he was very loosey goosey with the ball moving it from one hand to the other after making the breaking away cut. Hate to see him lose his confidence because of this. It killed Slaton, people harping on it constantly.

2slik4u
12-19-2011, 08:07 PM
I kinda give Foster the freedom to do whatever he wants. He for the most part takes care of the ball, and does some amazing stuff with the rock in his hands. Yes he has fumbled a few times this year, but his positive plays far and away outweigh them.

Agreed. Its not a problem until its a problem. I mean, who are we to pick apart shortcomings of the reigning NFL rushing champ?

He's fine. Im sure the RB coach is watching very closely.

I would also like to see where the ball is in relation to his body when he's in the open field and where its at when a defender is in his "bubble".

Texan_Bill
12-19-2011, 08:10 PM
Love it! Repped.

I'd rather he do it now, get pissed at himself for it and stop it in the future. In the press conference after the game he said he had 3 lost fumbles last year, 3 so far this year, so he believes that it's done for the year. Doesn't want to disappoint the team anymore.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff395/Metanoia23/walter-payton.jpg

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff395/Metanoia23/images.jpg

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff395/Metanoia23/images-1.jpg

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff395/Metanoia23/images-2.jpg



i think he'll be ok....

People sometimes get locked into "the now" and don't remember "the past".... Some of the greatest running backs - EVER, carried the ball "loose" or like they used to say about Earl... "like a loaf of bread"!

But hey!! Whatever floats people's boat and all that jazz.

Texan_Bill
12-19-2011, 08:15 PM
Walter Payton, carries 3838, fumbles 86

Eric Dickerson, carries 2996, fumbles 78

Curtis Martin, carries 3518, fumbles 29

It's possible to get a lot of carries and a lot of yards and take care of the ball.

Earl Campbell... Two seasons, 17 fumbles. Arian Foster (basically two seasons) 8...

But what the ****, we're Texans fans, we need something to ***** about, no?

Texan_Bill
12-19-2011, 08:16 PM
Agreed. Its not a problem until its a problem. I mean, who are we to pick apart shortcomings of the reigning NFL rushing champ?

He's fine. Im sure the RB coach is watching very closely.

I would also like to see where the ball is in relation to his body when he's in the open field and where its at when a defender is in his "bubble".

"Chick" is on it. He'll get it corrected.... But in the meantime, "the sky is falling"!!

Texan_Bill
12-19-2011, 08:19 PM
you do know why he has the ball out like that right, you have seen some of the moves he puts on guys, where do you think the balance comes from, if he tucks it in all the time it will greatly affect his running style. Its a win lose situation, BUT i think his running style pays off more often than not.

/END THREAD

Well, almost. There may be another post or two I need to cherry pick! :ant:

Texan_Bill
12-19-2011, 08:26 PM
Well this thread certainly took an unexpected turn. I'm sort of surprised to see so many posters shrugging off poor ball carrying technique.

I certainly hope, for Arian's sake, we don't lose a playoff game because of a fumble.

And for the record, just because some of the great running backs in NFL history were prolific yard gainers, that doesn't excuse carrying the ball like a loaf of bread. Some of the great ones also had a reputation for fumbling.

Walter Payton is second on the list of running backs in NFL history for fumbles with 86.

Eric Dickerson had 78 in a shorter career.


Dickerson's Fumble Is Costly, Houston Wins (http://articles.latimes.com/1988-09-05/sports/sp-1138_1_houston-oilers)
September 05, 1988| From Times Wire Services

INDIANAPOLIS Eric Dickerson's fumble gave the Houston Oilers another chance, and Tony Zendejas atoned for two earlier misses with a 35-yard field goal in overtime to beat the Indianapolis Colts, 17-14, Sunday.

Ummm. Shit happens! signed, Kevin Mack and Ernest Byner... I had a close call myself! Signed, Jerome Bettis.

:cool:

Really? You do know, "that's why they play the games", right?

CloakNNNdagger
12-19-2011, 10:52 PM
Earl Campbell... Two seasons, 17 fumbles. Arian Foster (basically two seasons) 8...

But what the ****, we're Texans fans, we need something to ***** about, no?

Bill, we were both very fortunate enough to be able to watch Earl in person. In all fairness, Earl virtually always ploughed right through a wall of Ds while Arian tries to juge in order to avoid Ds.

edo783
12-19-2011, 11:49 PM
Bill, we were both very fortunate enough to be able to watch Earl in person. In all fairness, Earl virtually always ploughed right through a wall of Ds while Arian tries to juge in order to avoid Ds.

Yup, Earl would punch a hole in the wall and Arian would shift around it in a way that it just fall down on its own.

Speedy
12-20-2011, 12:17 AM
How many of the above pictures show them in traffic? It is true that many famous RBs will hold their arms out from their bodies at times to achieve better balance. But most will tuck in traffic.

FWIW, Arian had the ball against his body when he fumbled Sunday.

kwayshauntay
12-20-2011, 05:59 AM
http://rotoassist.com/files/2011/08/arian-foster-opwn-2710.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_m4riIqugfc/TvBowT5gNmI/AAAAAAAAADE/6MmN3S_0C9I/s1600/foster+ball+handling.gif

TimeKiller
12-20-2011, 08:38 AM
It's three or four. Not all that much, I guess, but it's been twice in two games now, yes? And early in the games, too, IIRC.

Not all that much? Officially listed with 3 at NFL.com, http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=null&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1 for a guy getting the ball as much as he does, it's really not as big of a problem as you guys are making. Go find a guy who does as much damage as Foster does and hangs onto the ball every time. He doesn't exist. And early in games? You mean like when it has the most chance of being irrelevant because there's still 59 minutes left in the game?

Well this thread certainly took an unexpected turn. I'm sort of surprised to see so many posters shrugging off poor ball carrying technique. Sorry coach lol...

I certainly hope, for Arian's sake, we don't lose a playoff game because of a fumble.

And for the record, just because some of the great running backs in NFL history were prolific yard gainers, that doesn't excuse carrying the ball like a loaf of bread. Some of the great ones also had a reputation for fumbling.
.

Um. Yes it does. If Arian makes the HOF fumbling >5 times a year when he's getting the ball 400 times YES, PLEASE AND THANK YOU!!! I guess you would rather have Samkon Gado or Adimchinobe Echimandu getting 1.5 yards per and never fumbling right?




Running backs will fumble the ball. Quarterbacks will throw interceptions. Texans will lose games. Perfection exists nowhere in the universe we inhabit, save for the minds of a few Texans' fans.


Oh yeah and lets bring up his college career like that matters in even the slightest sense.

TEXANS84
12-20-2011, 09:14 AM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_m4riIqugfc/TvBowT5gNmI/AAAAAAAAADE/6MmN3S_0C9I/s1600/foster+ball+handling.gif

I know what you're trying to show here with Arian's almost throw while running, but all this clip did for me is make me mad at Jacoby Jones. What piss poor blocking.

El Tejano
12-20-2011, 10:03 AM
The fumbles will come up in the contract negotiations.

CloakNNNdagger
12-20-2011, 04:19 PM
Not all that much? Officially listed with 3 at NFL.com, http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=null&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1 for a guy getting the ball as much as he does, it's really not as big of a problem as you guys are making. Go find a guy who does as much damage as Foster does and hangs onto the ball every time. He doesn't exist. And early in games? You mean like when it has the most chance of being irrelevant because there's still 59 minutes left in the game?



Um. Yes it does. If Arian makes the HOF fumbling >5 times a year when he's getting the ball 400 times YES, PLEASE AND THANK YOU!!! I guess you would rather have Samkon Gado or Adimchinobe Echimandu getting 1.5 yards per and never fumbling right?




Running backs will fumble the ball. Quarterbacks will throw interceptions. Texans will lose games. Perfection exists nowhere in the universe we inhabit, save for the minds of a few Texans' fans.


Oh yeah and lets bring up his college career like that matters in even the slightest sense.

It's easy to overlook fumbles when your offense is scoring lots of points and your defense are playing lights out.

Double Barrel
12-20-2011, 04:32 PM
One of the G.O.A.T. running backs held it tight:

http://www.sportsfanlive.com/roller/lordstantheman/resource/76_emmitt-smith-houston.GIF.gif

http://www.celebritiesfans.com/Pic/emmittsmith.jpg

http://dallascowboystimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/emmitt-smith.jpg

Smith is no. 81 on the NFL Career Fumbles Leaders (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/fumbles_career.htm).

Barry Sanders also held it tight, much like Smith:

http://media.mlive.com/grpress/entertainment_impact/photo/barry-sandersjpg-b08676b76a0d7bac_large.jpg

I'm not arguing pro/con here, but just mentioning examples for comparison.

CloakNNNdagger
12-20-2011, 05:19 PM
One of the G.O.A.T. running backs held it tight:

http://www.sportsfanlive.com/roller/lordstantheman/resource/76_emmitt-smith-houston.GIF.gif

http://www.celebritiesfans.com/Pic/emmittsmith.jpg

http://dallascowboystimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/emmitt-smith.jpg

Smith is no. 81 on the NFL Career Fumbles Leaders (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/fumbles_career.htm).

Barry Sanders also held it tight, much like Smith:

http://media.mlive.com/grpress/entertainment_impact/photo/barry-sandersjpg-b08676b76a0d7bac_large.jpg

I'm not arguing pro/con here, but just mentioning examples for comparison.


Emmit Smith..............4409 carries>>>>>>>>38 fumbles (15 season)

Barry Sanders............3062 carries>>>>>>>>19 fumbles (10 seasons)

TimeKiller
12-20-2011, 05:34 PM
It's easy to overlook fumbles when your offense is scoring lots of points and your defense are playing lights out.

It's easy to complain too. You don't even have to be right.

Double Barrel
12-20-2011, 06:24 PM
Emmit Smith..............4409 carries>>>>>>>>38 fumbles (15 season)

Barry Sanders............3062 carries>>>>>>>>19 fumbles (10 seasons)

Those are pretty amazing numbers. Thanks for posting this info. :thumbup

TexansFanatic
12-20-2011, 07:08 PM
One of the G.O.A.T. running backs held it tight:

Yep. Emmitt rarely fumbled.

Which was why it was so amazing when the Oilers beat the Cowboys way back in 1991 thanks to an Emmitt Smith fumble in overtime.

TexansFanatic
12-20-2011, 07:11 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_m4riIqugfc/TvBowT5gNmI/AAAAAAAAADE/6MmN3S_0C9I/s1600/foster+ball+handling.gif

That's an incredible gif. Thanks for posting it.

CloakNNNdagger
12-20-2011, 07:48 PM
It's easy to complain too. You don't even have to be right.

I fail to see what this jab added to this discussion. This thread is a discussion, isn't it? At least I thought was. I'll continue to read your posts as I enjoy your takes, whether they are affirming or presenting counter argument to mine.

TexansFanatic
12-20-2011, 07:51 PM
Running backs will fumble the ball. Quarterbacks will throw interceptions. Texans will lose games. Perfection exists nowhere in the universe we inhabit, save for the minds of a few Texans' fans.


The Texans are winning now. Everyone is very excited and anyone who even vaguely appears to be rocking the boat need to STFU. Yeah, I get that mentality.

I love Arian Foster. He's a rare talent and seems like a great guy. I'm extremely pleased with his performance and have no room to complain. I am, in fact, not complaining.

I'm merely pointing out what I feel is an easily correctable flaw in his game.

While it's true that nobody is perfect, that shouldn't keep us from pursuing perfection. That's what the best coaches in history have done. I certainly hope the Texans coaches aren't so happy with what they've accomplished this year that they aren't taking the time to make small adjustments that could prevent a season-ending loss in the future.

Texan_Bill
12-20-2011, 08:08 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_m4riIqugfc/TvBowT5gNmI/AAAAAAAAADE/6MmN3S_0C9I/s1600/foster+ball+handling.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=304YwFYrbZ4

Hey folks, fast forward to about the 1:02(ish) mark.

Texan_Bill
12-20-2011, 08:11 PM
Someone's style that Arian reminds me of...........

Eric Dickerson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4RmxOveTNA)

Texan_Bill
12-20-2011, 08:15 PM
The Texans are winning now. Everyone is very excited and anyone who even vaguely appears to be rocking the boat need to STFU. Yeah, I get that mentality.

I love Arian Foster. He's a rare talent and seems like a great guy. I'm extremely pleased with his performance and have no room to complain. I am, in fact, not complaining.

I'm merely pointing out what I feel is an easily correctable flaw in his game.



Agree 100% with you until the bolded....

To the bolded... You don't change a thoroughbred's gate.

TexansFanatic
12-20-2011, 08:21 PM
You don't change a thoroughbred's gate.

I can see the reasoning in that perspective.

I just hope letting Arian be Arian doesn't wind up being the cause of a lot of broken hearts in Houston----and not just for the sake of the fans, but for his sake as well.

Texan_Bill
12-20-2011, 08:31 PM
I can see the reasoning in that perspective.

I just hope letting Arian be Arian doesn't wind up being the cause of a lot of broken hearts in Houston----and not just for the sake of the fans, but for his sake as well.

Why stress yourself out about the small shit, BTW, it's all small shit.

Arian hasn't given us a Kevin Mack/Cleveland Brown moment (that's a modern reference ;) ). Why assume he will?

*Disclaimer*
It's well documented that I am NOT a VY fan Boi, but:

Q: When did Texas with Vince Young at QB win a National Championship?

A: When Mack let VY be VY.

TexansFanatic
12-20-2011, 08:52 PM
Why stress yourself out about the small shit, BTW, it's all small shit..

I'm not stressed. I'm on the couch with my laptop and my blood pressure is amazingly low, especially for someone who rarely engages in strenuous exercise.

But I'm not an NFL coach. I guarantee you there are no NFL coaches who believe you shouldn't sweat the small stuff. At least none who are going to be employed very long.

Again, while nobody is perfect and nobody ever will be, that shouldn't keep us from pursuing perfection relentlessly. The Raiders' motto says it all: Commitment to Excellence.

Yeah, the "let Vince be Vince" quote is very well known among Longhorn fans like me. That just meant that they stopped trying to turn Vince into a classic pocket passer and changed their offense to suit his skills. And, just between you and me, I think it also meant that they kind of dumbed things down a bit. ***sorry Vince!***

Obviously if changing the way Arian carries the ball is going to hurt his production, I'm not in favor of it. But I'm not buying that it would.

What I see when he's holding the ball away from his body by the palm of his hand is an accident waiting to happen. An accident that could easily be avoided.

Texan_Bill
12-20-2011, 10:07 PM
I'm not stressed. I'm on the couch with my laptop and my blood pressure is amazingly low, especially for someone who rarely engages in strenuous exercise.

But I'm not an NFL coach. I guarantee you there are no NFL coaches who believe you shouldn't sweat the small stuff. At least none who are going to be employed very long.

Again, while nobody is perfect and nobody ever will be, that shouldn't keep us from pursuing perfection relentlessly. The Raiders' motto says it all: Commitment to Excellence.

Yeah, the "let Vince be Vince" quote is very well known among Longhorn fans like me. That just meant that they stopped trying to turn Vince into a classic pocket passer and changed their offense to suit his skills. And, just between you and me, I think it also meant that they kind of dumbed things down a bit. ***sorry Vince!***

Obviously if changing the way Arian carries the ball is going to hurt his production, I'm not in favor of it. But I'm not buying that it would.

What I see when he's holding the ball away from his body by the palm of his hand is an accident waiting to happen. An accident that could easily be avoided.

Obviously, you're set in your ways... We'll agree to disagree.

I've made several and I do mean several arguments dispelling your concerns, but in business, you are doing what we call "micro-managing".... Believe when I tell you that it never works out well...

In other words: Micro-management leads to ineffeciency and lack of production.

That said, I'm sure you'll find something else to over-analyze and that's fine. These boards are where you can do that......... Peace out!


*DONE*

TexansFanatic
12-20-2011, 10:42 PM
In other words: Micro-management leads to ineffeciency and lack of production.

Micromanagement can be a problem in the business world, you bet.

But Google the word micromanager and combine it with the name of any of the best coaches in NFL history and I guarantee you'll get loads of matches.

I just randomly Googled micromanager + bill belichick and came up with numerous pages labeling him that.

Old ball coach, Steve Spurrier, fizzled in the NFL because he's not a micromanager. He thought he could coach an NFL team the way he coaches his college teams and spend just as much time as ever on the golf course.

Lombardi, Shula, Walsh, Gibbs. Big time micromanagers.

Really the only non-micromanager Super Bowl winning coach I can think of off the top of my head was Barry Switzer and he won with a team even I could have won with.

TimeKiller
12-21-2011, 08:42 AM
I fail to see what this jab added to this discussion. This thread is a discussion, isn't it? At least I thought was. I'll continue to read your posts as I enjoy your takes, whether they are affirming or presenting counter argument to mine.

Sorry Doc, didn't mean it as an attack. I think the counter argument here is pretty much a wall that goes 10,000 miles wide, 10,000 high and 10,000 miles deep. I feel like this is just somebody trying to light fires for no reason. Yeah, fumbles are a problem but just go over some of the points brought up here and tell me it doesn't seem like maybe, just maybe this is a bit of weak sauce:

-He was carrying the ball properly when he fumbled last game
-He gets more touches than anyone in the league
-He has only 3 listed fumbles which is fairly average, 2 fumbles coming early in the game where the team had plenty of time to overcome them
-He has elite production and much respect from his adversaries
-He has crazy jukes moves that involve his whole body
-Jacoby Jones is a terrible downfield blocker
-We are LUCKY to have this guy on our team, for all the diamond in the rough talk let's not forget how ROUGH it was with some of the guys we've seen here

Everyone has flaws. Tom Brady can't run. Dallas Clark can't block. Drew Brees is short. Perfection DOES NOT exist. So why complain about a guy who is only doing it 98% right?

RunTexans
12-21-2011, 10:33 AM
Yep. Emmitt rarely fumbled.

Which was why it was so amazing when the Oilers beat the Cowboys way back in 1991 thanks to an Emmitt Smith fumble in overtime.

Emmit Smith and Barry Sanders were also 5'8" and 5'9", when you're as tall as those backs are your center of gravity allows you to run more compact, thats the benefit of being that short.

When you have backs that are 6' or close you need a lot more balance when you run, which means you need more counter balances in order to be shifty and agile. Thats why the pictures i posted with Gayle, Eric, Payton all showed guys who were taller that needed those arms for balance.

not that it contributes to fumbling, but having the compact running style obviously enables you to run with less counter balances, not the case with the taller backs...

infantrycak
12-21-2011, 10:46 AM
Emmit Smith and Barry Sanders ...

Emmitt was incredibly shifty in short space. Not make you miss entirely Sanders shifty but well planned out make a shoulder tackle into and arm tackle and then run through it shifty. Sanders' attempts to try to make people entirely miss also let to a bunch of no gain or negative gain plays. Smith's other talent which often goes unnoticed was the use of his hands. He often deflected arms just pushing them aside. Arian also has great short space awareness and movement especially for a biggish RB.

TexansFanatic
12-21-2011, 01:10 PM
I feel like this is just somebody trying to light fires for no reason.

I'm sensing that you've taken this thread a little too personally and allowed my posts to get under your skin. And I hope thats not true because I've always thought of you as a solid, even-keeled poster and I think people who let message boards get them riled up are silly.

Light fires for no reason? What fires? It's a message board. I made an observation about the way the running back handles the ball, something I think should be addressed before it becomes a problem.

You disagree and that's fine. But perhaps we can keep the disagreement about the subject matter and not about you and me? I can't imagine the subject matter is so objectionable that it calls for an ad hominem attack.

TimeKiller
12-21-2011, 03:17 PM
Cool. We disagree then. If you would like to respond any of the points I have, his amount of touches, not fumbling more than anyone else, still having elite production, feel free. Otherwise I'll be quiet, seems like I'm offending folks even though I'm not trying to.

TexansFanatic
12-21-2011, 04:09 PM
Cool. We disagree then. If you would like to respond any of the points I have, his amount of touches, not fumbling more than anyone else, still having elite production, feel free. Otherwise I'll be quiet, seems like I'm offending folks even though I'm not trying to.

Not at all. We're good.

And I'm happy to belabor the issue (just in case anyone was unclear on that). http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/smilie2.gif

He was carrying the ball properly when he fumbled last game
True. And I'm not concerned with that.

He gets more touches than anyone in the league
I haven't checked this but I don't doubt it.

He has only 3 listed fumbles which is fairly average, 2 fumbles coming early in the game where the team had plenty of time to overcome them
True. And what I stated in the first post is that I think it's a minor miracle he hasn't fumbled more.

He has elite production and much respect from his adversaries
True. And I'm pretty sure I've said as much in this thread already.

He has crazy jukes moves that involve his whole body
I'm going to admit that it's possible that part of his magic is that he uses his extremities as a counterbalance when he's faking suckers out of their jocks. It's possible, but I'm not completely buying it.

We are LUCKY to have this guy on our team, for all the diamond in the rough talk let's not forget how ROUGH it was with some of the guys we've seen here
True. And again, I believe I've already stated as much at least once or twice in this thread.

Everyone has flaws. Tom Brady can't run. Dallas Clark can't block. Drew Brees is short. Perfection DOES NOT exist.
Tom Brady's inability to run isn't something he can correct. It's genetic. Drew Brees' height isn't something he can correct. It's genetic. Dallas Clark catches passes well and isn't expected to be a great blocker.

What I've pointed out with the way Arian carries the ball is something that is easily correctable.

So why complain about a guy who is only doing it 98% right?
I'm not complaining---that seems to be a recurring misconception on this thread. I'm pointing out something that should be and can easily be corrected before it becomes an issue. And I would always push a guy even is he's doing 98% right if I know he can get 99% right.

CloakNNNdagger
12-21-2011, 05:07 PM
Emmitt was incredibly shifty in short space. Not make you miss entirely Sanders shifty but well planned out make a shoulder tackle into and arm tackle and then run through it shifty. Sanders' attempts to try to make people entirely miss also let to a bunch of no gain or negative gain plays. Smith's other talent which often goes unnoticed was the use of his hands. He often deflected arms just pushing them aside. Arian also has great short space awareness and movement especially for a biggish RB.

I used to fence in the collegiate nationals, and Emmitt's hand moves reminded me of "parrying" with the foil, using the foil to deflect the foil of your opponent and using your opponent's inertia to send him right past you.

VIDEO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSGwOVZ2btg) (see move at 37 seconds)

infantrycak
12-21-2011, 05:31 PM
I used to fence in the collegiate nationals, and Emmitt's hand moves reminded me of "parrying" with the foil, using the foil to deflect the foil of your opponent and using your opponent's inertia to send him right past you.

VIDEO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSGwOVZ2btg) (see move at 37 seconds)

Too funny. My son just moved out of fencing after several years and is taking up martial arts. Your analogy is apt. Parry, riposte. Same theory with different terminology.