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View Full Version : What does T.J. need to work on in the weeks to come?


burro
12-18-2011, 06:38 PM
I think we can all agree that T.J. needs a little work, but what specifically do you think he needs to focus on? Off the top of my head:

1) Going through his progressions more thoroughly. He's missed some wide open receivers in the past few games. This could be remedied by T.J. just taking his time.

2) Keeping track of where the coverage is. He tends to lose track of coverage when it sinks underneath (take his first INT today as an example). I think this mostly comes with experience, but it's still something for him to focus on in the film room.

and 3) Selling the play-action. This shouldn't need much explaining, his fake hand-offs are painfully obvious at times and seeing how big a portion of our game plans revolve around the PA pass, this is an issue.

That being said; in spite of him having a bad outing today, I still think Yates is legit and has what it takes to win games in this league. If he works hard throughout the rest of the regular season, I think he'll surprise people in the playoffs.

msbbc833
12-18-2011, 06:43 PM
Establish a deep threat

EllisUnit
12-18-2011, 06:58 PM
anyone else notice that a lot of times when he fake hands the ball to the running back it is on the wrong side and he is handing off to air ???

TexansBull
12-18-2011, 07:04 PM
Get experience.

FR0497
12-18-2011, 07:19 PM
I was able to make the game today and your first point occured quite often. He missed Daniels over and over on the deep routes. And then on our second fg he went for the touchdown where Dressen (I think) was covered and he had Jones open on the short pass. His accuracy was not very good today either, lots of underthrown passes.

Thorn
12-18-2011, 07:32 PM
He's a rookie, making rookie mistakes. Add to that he was on the practice squad most of the year, so his timing with the 1st string recievers isn't there yet.

He'll either improve or he won't. And we won't have a long time to discuss it since we play this coming Thursday.

texanhead08
12-18-2011, 08:20 PM
Not throwing the ball to the other team.

amazing80
12-18-2011, 08:23 PM
He needs to work on his qb skills, all of them!

His play action is bad, his accuracy is all over the place and he seems to stare down his wide outs too much.


My question is IF he sucks again Thursday, do we consider making a change in week 17 to prepare for the playoffs?!?!

nytexan
12-18-2011, 08:32 PM
Rookie QB's, they remind me of my kids when they were all around 17, 1 minute you want to hug them and tell them how awesome they are and the next minute you want to choke the dog sheet out of them and ask what in the heck were you thinking there.

If its meant to be he'll get better if not he won't. He did miss some wide open receivers today, not necessarily with the pass but not seeing them at all. On his 1st interception he missed a wide open WR, I think it was JJ but it could have been Johnson on the opposite side of the field and on another pass he threw short to Walter when he had a wide open Johnson in the corner of the endzone in what appears to be in the same field of vision. Having said that it wasn't realistic to think this kid would play flawless for the rest of the season.

Hopefully he's better Thursday night.

TheMatrix31
12-18-2011, 09:28 PM
Accuracy.

NastyNate
12-18-2011, 09:35 PM
I think we can all agree that T.J. needs a little work, but what specifically do you think he needs to focus on?

Being Matt Schaub.




Really he just doesn't have the playbook down yet. He led us back through a very soft zone coverage last week whereas this week they played safety close and a lot of single coverage fake reads. We just flat out didn't execute, he's a rookie qb, we're going to have bad games, we just can't turn the ball over.

PHAROAH
12-18-2011, 10:14 PM
Look the guy has no real receiver to throw the ball too this is sad to say but this team has done nothing to improve the passing game we are totally dependent on 1 player (Andre Johnson) in the passing game. TJ has played fine and yes he threw some picks today but let's be fair when your running back is the leading receiver that is a poor sign that you have no ability throw the ball down the field and we will get exposed in the playoffs because management refuses to address the WR position with a serious candidate who can come in and make an impact. Terrell Owens would help us right now but we are too worried if he will be a distraction and this & that. Terrell knows the west coast system from his days in san fran & philly we need help now for the playoffs and people were happy about the Jeff Maehl signing when we all know this guy will not an impact this season.

burro
12-18-2011, 10:21 PM
Look the guy has no real receiver to throw the ball too this is sad to say but this team has done nothing to improve the passing game we are totally dependent on 1 player (Andre Johnson) in the passing game. TJ has played fine and yes he threw some picks today but let's be fair when your running back is the leading receiver that is a poor sign that you have no ability throw the ball down the field and we will get exposed in the playoffs because management refuses to address the WR position with a serious candidate who can come in and make an impact. Terrell Owens would help us right now but we are too worried if he will be a distraction and this & that. Terrell knows the west coast system from his days in san fran & philly we need help now for the playoffs and people were happy about the Jeff Maehl signing when we all know this guy will not an impact this season.

He had receivers open on a number of occasions today and he flat out missed the throws. Between KW, B. Johnson/Jacoby, OD, Dreesen, and Foster/Tate the receiving core is adequate w/o AJ.

NastyNate
12-18-2011, 10:24 PM
Look the guy has no real receiver to throw the ball too this is sad to say but this team has done nothing to improve the passing game we are totally dependent on 1 player (Andre Johnson) in the passing game. TJ has played fine and yes he threw some picks today but let's be fair when your running back is the leading receiver that is a poor sign that you have no ability throw the ball down the field and we will get exposed in the playoffs because management refuses to address the WR position with a serious candidate who can come in and make an impact. Terrell Owens would help us right now but we are too worried if he will be a distraction and this & that. Terrell knows the west coast system from his days in san fran & philly we need help now for the playoffs and people were happy about the Jeff Maehl signing when we all know this guy will not an impact this season.

Do you watch the same football games that I watch? You're not even close in your assessment bro. Have you ever played a single game of football?

Corrosion
12-18-2011, 10:31 PM
I think we can all agree that T.J. needs a little work, but what specifically do you think he needs to focus on? Off the top of my head:

1) Going through his progressions more thoroughly. He's missed some wide open receivers in the past few games. This could be remedied by T.J. just taking his time.

2) Keeping track of where the coverage is. He tends to lose track of coverage when it sinks underneath (take his first INT today as an example). I think this mostly comes with experience, but it's still something for him to focus on in the film room.

and 3) Selling the play-action. This shouldn't need much explaining, his fake hand-offs are painfully obvious at times and seeing how big a portion of our game plans revolve around the PA pass, this is an issue.

That being said; in spite of him having a bad outing today, I still think Yates is legit and has what it takes to win games in this league. If he works hard throughout the rest of the regular season, I think he'll surprise people in the playoffs.

I agree with all of the above .... good post.


He's a rookie making rookie mistakes against NFL defenses ..... they have a way of making rookies look like rookies.

Only difference between this week and the last two is that the Texans defense wasnt up to the task of keeping the team in the game giving them a chance to win.

CretorFrigg
12-18-2011, 10:32 PM
He's got to work through his progressions and not panic when he doesn't see anything there. Most of his interceptions come when he starts to panic and tries to force something.

He's also got to calm down and throw accurately. With that said, I still believe in him. He has 3 TDs and 3 interceptions now? Not bad for a rookie. He still has great poise in the pocket.

EllisUnit
12-18-2011, 10:32 PM
Do you watch the same football games that I watch? You're not even close in your assessment bro. Have you ever played a single game of football?

i will agree with him about us being to dependant on A.J. We need to draft a true #1 in the draft. A.J will still be the #1 but look at what Atlanta has. Imagine that with our running game. We would be unstoppable.

TexansBull
12-18-2011, 11:07 PM
He needs to work on his qb skills, all of them!

His play action is bad, his accuracy is all over the place and he seems to stare down his wide outs too much.


My question is IF he sucks again Thursday, do we consider making a change in week 17 to prepare for the playoffs?!?!

I say make no changes to him starting. Thats how you make him second guess himself.

The guy needs to put up more points on the board if anything. These next two games will tell us if he can rebound and have a good game and score. If we struggle with the next two, and dont win by a couple of scores, I will be concerned going into the playoffs.

If you look at Tom Brady, Joe Flacco, Ben Rothlesberger, Matt Ryan, and Eli Manning they all (especially Eli) Schuab(Texans Data exception) threw interceptions early in their career. Its what an inexperienced rookie does. And at the end of the day, its about the W. I dont care how it happens, just win.

Brady 1-2 in his first 3 games. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00/gamelog//

Flacco 2-1 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00/gamelog//

Rothlesberger 2-1 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/gamelog//

Ryan 2-1 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RyanMa00/gamelog//

Eli 0-3 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00/gamelog//

Dilfer 0-3 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DilfTr00/super-bowl/

Schaub 2-1(Texans) http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SchaMa00/gamelog//

EVOLVIST
12-19-2011, 12:02 AM
Let's get back to the reality of the situation a bit: Rookie QBs who start as rookies simply do not fare very well in the NFL without the benefit of sitting and learning a while.

There are very few exceptions to this rule - and no rookie QB has ever been asked to take a playoff bound team all the way, with 4 games left in the season.

Let's look at rookie QBs in their first 3 starts:

TJ Yates (2-1)
QB rating = 76.9

Peyton Manning (0-3)
QB rating = 48.9

John Elway (1-2)
QB rating = 45.9

Dan Marino (2-1)
QB rating = 114.8

Steve Young (1-2)
QB rating = 47.4

Troy Aikmen (0-3)
QB rating = 39.2

Eli Manning (0-3)
QB rating = 42.4

Donovan McNabb (1-2)
QB rating = 65.6

Ben Roethlisberger (3-0)
QB rating = 94.4

Matt Ryan (2-1)
QB rating = 77.1

Joe Flacco (2-1)
QB rating = 65.9

Cam Newton (2-1)
QB rating = 85.1

Blaine Gabbert (0-3)
QB rating = 68.7

Christian Ponder (1-2)
QB rating = 73.2

Andy Dalton (1-2)
QB rating = 82.1

I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

Out of this small sampling, only 2 QBs have passed for more yards than TJ Yates in their first 3 starts:

Cam Newton = 1012
Dan Marino = 704
TJ Yates = 700


The odds are stacked against TJ - though he has been the consummate professional on and off the field.

What we are seeing out of "The Kid" are traits that scream rookie. But we are also seeing aspects of his game that looks as if he's been behind center in the NFL for years. It really is a mixed bag.

It's a mixed bag because, no matter what Kubiak says to the media, no matter what Yates says, and no matter what the rest of the team says, there is more on TJ Yates' shoulders then there would have ever been on Schaub's or Leinart's.

The whole season is resting on #13.

Yet, through it all, so far, TJ Yates has played beyond most of the rookie standards set by HOF players, future HOF players and his peers.

This Yates kid could very well be a bust. And whether it's fortunate or unfortunate that the Texans are going through this has yet to be determined.

What does T.J. need to work on in the weeks to come? Damn strong deltoids!

2BCF
12-19-2011, 12:42 AM
This is definitely an example of OJT.
Last week his passes were fit for a 7-foot WR, this week he was planting them 5 feet in front of the receivers.
Hopefully next week they'll be more on target.

I like seeing the kid scramble for yardage, he's no newton but why not utilize all his talents.

TheMatrix31
12-19-2011, 08:33 AM
Andre is critical to this team, especially for spacing of the field.

PHAROAH
12-19-2011, 09:34 AM
Do you watch the same football games that I watch? You're not even close in your assessment bro. Have you ever played a single game of football?Yes I have what college team did you play for man some of you guys hate to hear any opinion that ya'll dont agree with man you don't even know me and i'm being questioned if understand the game or played!!!! Yes I played in college what about position did you play make a real comment.

El Tejano
12-19-2011, 09:38 AM
Red Zone!

ObsiWan
12-19-2011, 09:42 AM
Red Zone!

You know, I wonder why we didn't use that spread in the red zone more. When we've done that before even Schaub has been able to scramble into the endzone once the defenders take off to cover all five receivers. And Yates is faster and more nimble than Schaub. He should be able to pull that off. I was wondering why he didn't pump fake then make a break for the endzone when he threw that last pick.

I hope they see that during today's film breakdown.

PHAROAH
12-19-2011, 09:45 AM
i will agree with him about us being to dependant on A.J. We need to draft a true #1 in the draft. A.J will still be the #1 but look at what Atlanta has. Imagine that with our running game. We would be unstoppable.That was my point and thanks for pointing this out we have no one who strikes fear in defenses other than Andre Johnson yes we can dink & dunk all day long and not put the ball in the end zone. Yes TJ made some mistakes he is a rookie he will throw picks that's what rookies do but the front office hasn't done anything to improve the passing game in the past 3 seasons we have been dealing with sub-par receivers other than Andre. They re-signed Kevin Walter & Jacoby Jones who both have failed to live up to there contracts and no threat down the field. Yes I agree TJ has a lot of work to improve he is in his rookie season and his 3rd start give the guys some time he has gone 3-1 in the past 4 weeks give him time to grow into the job.

PHAROAH
12-19-2011, 09:50 AM
I say make no changes to him starting. Thats how you make him second guess himself.

The guy needs to put up more points on the board if anything. These next two games will tell us if he can rebound and have a good game and score. If we struggle with the next two, and dont win by a couple of scores, I will be concerned going into the playoffs.

If you look at Tom Brady, Joe Flacco, Ben Rothlesberger, Matt Ryan, and Eli Manning they all (especially Eli) Schuab(Texans Data exception) threw interceptions early in their career. Its what an inexperienced rookie does. And at the end of the day, its about the W. I dont care how it happens, just win.

Brady 1-2 in his first 3 games. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00/gamelog//



Flacco 2-1 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00/gamelog//

Rothlesberger 2-1 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/gamelog//

Ryan 2-1 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RyanMa00/gamelog//

Eli 0-3 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannEl00/gamelog//

Dilfer 0-3 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DilfTr00/super-bowl/

Schaub 2-1(Texans) http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SchaMa00/gamelog//I agree give the man some time to grow he has gone 3-1 since he took over for Matt Leinart so yes he will make mistakes and throw some picks but give him a chance to grow guys goodness.



:toropalm:

HOU-TEX
12-19-2011, 09:58 AM
Decision making!

There are times his decisions are mind-boggling. The two picks are obviously dumb decisions, but there were many more. Throwing to a double covered OD, throwing OD directly into the defender, bouncing balls at the feet of the receivers, etc

An off-topic comment: We have got to get another WR in the off season. I didn't like it when we re-signed JJ and now I despise it even more. His hands aren't only tiny, they're stone.

amazing80
12-19-2011, 10:09 AM
The issue we face is that we do not have time to let him grow, this is our playoff run and we need someone to lead this train....I like Yates still, but if he performs bad again on Thursday against a terrible Colts team we better think about switching qb's. We cannot go into the playoffs with a turnover machine at qb and expect to win games. It is a rough choice, but one that will have to be CONSIDERED.

EVOLVIST
12-19-2011, 10:21 AM
We cannot go into the playoffs with a turnover machine at qb and expect to win games. It is a rough choice, but one that will have to be CONSIDERED.

Right. This means we should also consider benching Foster and Tate since they have both turned the ball over more than Yates.

How do you like the sound of going into the playoffs starting Derrick Ward and Cajun Jake at QB?

Same logic.

Geriatric crowd, take over!!

Texan_Bill
12-19-2011, 10:22 AM
Re: What does T.J. need to work on in the weeks to come?

Throwing the ball to open recievers not open defenders. :kitten:

thunderkyss
12-19-2011, 10:56 AM
I think this thread is a little harsh on Tj. Yes, there are things he needs to work on to become a better QB, but this game was not about Tj.

Are there some things Tj could have done to win the game? Yes. Did we lose the game because Tj didn't do those things? NO.

Carolina pulled our number & that's that. They went up 21 to nothing on the best defense in the league (the defense we expected to win these last 4 or 5 games of the season).

That was Arian Foster that fumbled on our first possession, not Tj Yates & our defense gave up that 26 yard TD pass.... that was #24 on Steve Smith..... Arian & Jjo, those were the guys we were expecting to lean on right here, not Tj.

Today, I saw Tj learn how much range LBs have in the NFL. He doesn't see that in practice, because our LBs do not display that much awareness or range in the passing game.

As a team, we've learned that we are not ready to piss in the wind & expect Tj to win games for us.

I still have as much confidence in Tj today, that I did after the Bengals game. I have less confidence, however, in this team.

Dutchrudder
12-19-2011, 11:06 AM
I think he needs to work on winning. He was really good at winning the last couple games, but this one he just didn't do it. I don't know why, I think maybe he was distracted by something, maybe his parents not having good seats, or what to buy his girlfriend for Christmas, or maybe he went to Jack in the Box before the game and the 99 cent tacos just weren't sitting well with him. In any case, he needs to get back to winning more cause that's all that matters.

rush2112mn
12-19-2011, 04:23 PM
reads.......read progression.....1st 2nd 3rd 4th........that just comes with practice......and game conditions........

kiwitexansfan
12-19-2011, 04:32 PM
After that terrible pick into triple coverage where it looked like our receiver was the 4th most likely person to catch it, when he went off the field he looked like a spoilt kid who had been told off by his parents.

When Kubiak went up to him looking pi$$ed the interaction was interesting, TJ never even made eye contact and kind of waved Kubiak off.

I might be reading to much into that interaction but not sure if that is him beating himself up or being dismissive of coaching or we just reading way to much into something little.

Anyone see that and have a take on it?

thunderkyss
12-19-2011, 04:35 PM
After that terrible pick into triple coverage where it looked like our receiver was the 4th most likely person to catch it, when he went off the field he looked like a spoilt kid who had been told off by his parents.

When Kubiak went up to him looking pi$$ed the interaction was interesting, TJ never even made eye contact and kind of waved Kubiak off.

I might be reading to much into that interaction but not sure if that is him beating himself up or being dismissive of coaching or we just reading way to much into something little.

Anyone see that and have a take on it?

I don't think he's being dismissive. Probably has that, "I know you told me not to do that." feel to it.

Brisco_County
12-19-2011, 04:41 PM
DeAngelo Williams:

T.J. Yates has kind of been behind the eight ball starting this late in the season whereas Cam has gone through the ins and outs, the ups and downs to establish himself as a quarterback, Panthers running back DeAngelo Williams said.

Link (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2011/12/solomon-yates-plays-more-like-a-rookie-than-newton-in-loss/)

TexansBull
12-19-2011, 05:58 PM
Why can't we call TJ a "gunslinger" and compare him to Brett Favre like the cowpokes fans did with Romo?

"Man, I like Romo, err, Yates because he just puts it out there. If he sees it he will throw it. He is a gunslinger. You know who he reminds me of? Brett Favre because you know he used to do the same thing. Yea that Romo, err Yates is a gunslinger. I like him. He's going to take the Cowboys, err, Texans all the way you just watch. "

Oh wait. We are smarter than that.

Showtime100
12-19-2011, 06:07 PM
Man, I swear. If I ever meet Tony Kornheiser I will just laugh in his face (I couldn't justify a punch...lol).

On PTI a few minutes ago they were closing out the show and (of course) they do a quick statement about Yates and the Texans now that they have lost a game.

Kornheiser: "Where's all the Yates talk now?"

Um, TK, where was all the Yates talk before?

Fwiw, Wilbon said Yates is doing just fine and "you are doing just fine, Houston."

Hell, even that 15 seconds came after they talked about a monkey riding a dog. F that guy.

kingh99
12-19-2011, 07:52 PM
It looked like he was aiming the ball instead of throwing without thinking.

He's afraid to sail the ball so he's aiming it and that won't work.

Wolf6151
12-20-2011, 01:08 AM
I think he needs to work on 3 things:

1. Presnap recognition of the defense, but this will only come with experience and alot of film study.
2. Progression of his WR's needs to be faster and more thorough.
3. Accuracy.

Malloy
12-20-2011, 01:58 AM
As others have mentioned:

1: Read the coverages better

2: Ixnay on the checkdowns, I had Mr. Mittens flashbacks on sunday. 4 receptions to Vickers says it all (10 receptions to our FB/RB's). Our fullbacks usually have ONE reception a game, and that should be enough.

3: Instead of getting happy feet when pressure is close (the times you're in the pocket with no way out), throw the damn ball at someones feet.

4: accuracy. You won't get receptions if people are physically unable to get to the ball.

Despite all the... problems with Yates, I'm all for letting him take the next 3+ games of the 2011 season, you live by the sword and you die by the sword and I have no problem seeing us go down in the first playoff game with a rookie under center. It's been a crazy rollercoaster season in so many ways, and it would only be fitting if it continues so. :)

:fans:

thunderkyss
12-20-2011, 07:35 AM
2: Ixnay on the checkdowns, I had Mr. Mittens flashbacks on sunday. 4 receptions to Vickers says it all (10 receptions to our FB/RB's). Our fullbacks usually have ONE reception a game, and that should be enough.
:fans:

Checkdowns in themselves are not problems. If they are the right play, they are the right play. I'd rather him check it down, than try to force one into the endzone between two LBs while throwing across his body.

If he's checking down because our receivers aren't getting open, then that's another problem all together.

Going through progressions better (like you said) would help tremendously. That throw, the INT in the endzone, had he stayed in the pocket a second longer & looked to the left of Jacoby (his primary?) OD was open. He would have got the first down at the least.