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Topher
05-01-2012, 10:21 PM
http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/mimajki/Feedback%20gifs/joy.gif

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/mimajki/Feedback%20gifs/tumblr_lpf8ersJmS1qbvhuc.gif

silvrhand
05-01-2012, 10:25 PM
This calls for some van damme celebration!

http://rgifs.gifbin.com/g6011619998.gif

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/t_vandammedance_976.gif

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/van.gif

DownByContact
05-01-2012, 10:27 PM
Jacoby Jones hadn't muffed a punt in 2 seasons until that punt in B-more. If you think that cost the Texans the game, you are mistaken. Those 3 TJ Yates picks and the Rackers FG miss cost them in the end. Jacoby was a scapegoat for the fans.

I see a lot of people saying this to try to defend Jacoby. True he hasn't muffed a punt in a long time, but everyone knew it was coming. How many times has he bobbled a punt within those 2 years, how many times has he tried to catch a punt that bounced in traffic in those 2 years. I've seen it way too many times, plus I remember a muffed punt that Jacoby had which wasn't one because of some strange rule where the tackler had to give Jacoby a chance to catch his bobbled punt.

El Tejano
05-01-2012, 10:30 PM
Anyone else find it a coincidence that JJ gets released when Gaffney got released?

utahmark
05-01-2012, 10:37 PM
I can understand that. But, Walter has taken more snaps as the #2 WR & he's no closer to replacing Andre when he's out. Walter isn't out there screwing up punt returns... I get that too, but that's because Jacoby is better at it than Walter is.

Don't get me wrong, I like Jacoby better than Walter & if it were me making the decision, I'd go with the kid from Lane college. But we don't need both of them on this team. If they decided to go with Walter... fine.

But, in one off-season, three of my Jerseys have become useless. Mario, Demeco, & Jacoby (yes, I do own one).

When you have great defense and great run game you take the reciever that can block and does'nt make stupid mistakes.

ChampionTexan
05-01-2012, 10:48 PM
I can understand that. But, Walter has taken more snaps as the #2 WR & he's no closer to replacing Andre when he's out. Walter isn't out there screwing up punt returns... I get that too, but that's because Jacoby is better at it than Walter is.

Don't get me wrong, I like Jacoby better than Walter & if it were me making the decision, I'd go with the kid from Lane college. But we don't need both of them on this team. If they decided to go with Walter... fine.

But, in one off-season, three of my Jerseys have become useless. Mario, Demeco, & Jacoby (yes, I do own one).

Walter took a $1.5 Million salary cut to stay on the roster this year, so it's not like the Texans are sending out signals of their undying love for him either.

FYI, after the salary cut Walter will make $1 Million less than Jacoby was scheduled to make this season.

Lucky
05-01-2012, 11:00 PM
But, in one off-season, three of my Jerseys have become useless. Mario, Demeco, & Jacoby (yes, I do own one).
They're not useless. They're throwbacks. I still have my Babin Battle Red throwback.

Vinny
05-01-2012, 11:02 PM
I can understand that. But, Walter has taken more snaps as the #2 WR & he's no closer to replacing Andre when he's out. Walter isn't out there screwing up punt returns... I get that too, but that's because Jacoby is better at it than Walter is.

Don't get me wrong, I like Jacoby better than Walter & if it were me making the decision, I'd go with the kid from Lane college. But we don't need both of them on this team. If they decided to go with Walter... fine.

But, in one off-season, three of my Jerseys have become useless. Mario, Demeco, & Jacoby (yes, I do own one).

Walter took a $1.5 Million salary cut to stay on the roster this year, so it's not like the Texans are sending out signals of their undying love for him either.

FYI, after the salary cut Walter will make $1 Million less than Jacoby was scheduled to make this season.I don't think anyone thinks that Walter is a NFL #1wr. He's a no-nonsense blocker that does a good job chipping and blocking the second level players. He's where you expect him to be when he runs routes too. He's certainly replaceable, but Jones isn't the player he is and its just a shame...but Walter is maximizing his talent while Jacoby is underachieving. That's how it goes.

The Pencil Neck
05-02-2012, 12:43 AM
They're not useless. They're throwbacks. I still have my Babin Battle Red throwback.

I've got a Winston throwback.

My #55 jersey just says "Pencil Neck" on the back. But it's actually a Danny Clark throwback.

aussie_texan
05-02-2012, 12:44 AM
absolutely loving the gifs here.

XI CMURDER IX
05-02-2012, 12:59 AM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzh5ni5lFl1r9gwpoo3_250.gif
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmaedhMbXt1qapwt5.gif
http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r512/wptyler86/everyday%20gifs/frogGTFO.gif
http://gifsoup.com/view4/1571472/creepy-smile-o.gif

_Dre
05-02-2012, 02:04 AM
Anyone else find it a coincidence that JJ gets released when Gaffney got released?

This. According to McClain's tweet we lost $500k by not waiting to release him after June 1st. So must be trying to sign Gaffney.

In other news..:hurrah:

Corrosion
05-02-2012, 03:44 AM
This. According to McClain's tweet we lost $500k by not waiting to release him after June 1st. So must be trying to sign Gaffney.

In other news..:hurrah:

They lost $500k for cutting him today but had they waited till June 1 the price would have went up but they could have spread it over this year and next ..... its done and over with , no dead money from this contract next season.


Dutch explained it on page 45 I believe ....

El Tejano
05-02-2012, 08:04 AM
They lost $500k for cutting him today but had they waited till June 1 the price would have went up but they could have spread it over this year and next ..... its done and over with , no dead money from this contract next season.


Dutch explained it on page 45 I believe ....

And since Washington RELEASED Gaffney, it wouldn't mess with our compensatory picks either if we did sign him. Any list of available veteran FA? Curious what's out there right now better than Gaffney?

Mr.Scarface
05-02-2012, 08:07 AM
They are not signing Gaffney. Been there, done that.

NitroGSXR
05-02-2012, 08:31 AM
I agree that Jacoby was invisible last year. But what did him in was that muff. Kubiak could have brought Jones back without the muff. He wouldn't have deserved it, but he most likely would still be a Texan. But, there was no way he could bring back Jones after that fail. The crowd would have been on Jacoby the minute he hit the field.

I'll tell you what... I completely knew he was getting cut but I was also stunned we actually did him in. Kubiak and Smith have both publicly supported Jacoby, even in the Baltimore postgame comments. It was not until Smith's presser when I knew Jones was going to be gone one way or another. It was actually extremely subtle but at the same time, deafening. This organization isn't known for being that frank.

Smith
(on if drafting Keshawn Martin means Jacoby Jones won’t be returning anymore and a possible change of scenery coming) “No, I think there were reports out there that we were attempting to trade Jacoby. Jacoby is still on our football team. We did not trade Jacoby. You’re always entertaining any kind of phone calls that you have over the course of a draft. We do our due diligence that way, but he’s still on our team. It does not signal the end of anything at this point. What we were trying to do is add quality football players.”
OUCH!

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Rick-Smith-Gary-Kubiak-on-Draft/36d06ded-5c0a-4ce7-aa5a-3c65f51fc196

TimeKiller
05-02-2012, 08:38 AM
Sing it with me now....

DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD>>>>!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Texan_Bill
05-02-2012, 08:48 AM
Some of you are pretty harsh towards Jacoby.

Don't y'all remember the game where he had 10 receptions for over 200 yards? What about the game last year where he bailed Schuab out late in the 4th quarter against the Raiders for the win???


:thinking:

Wait, those things never happened... Nevermind.

thunderkyss
05-02-2012, 08:53 AM
Jacoby is an athletic guy, but to say he is "a very talented receiver" is a stretch. Dude ran terrible and undisciblined routes is more accurate. That coupled with his dumbass decision making, made him a liability....

We drafted him because he is very talented. Everyone playing in the NFL is very talented. To say Jacoby is very talented is far from a stretch.

I didn't have a problem with his route running. I guess it's a subjective thing (though it shouldn't be).

Concerning his "dumbass" decision making. Surely this begs to question why coach Joe is still around if Jacoby has been the "best" thing we've got for a punt returner over the last 5 years. But then, Jacoby was one of the better punt returners in the AFC in 2011.


I know he's a "good guy' BUT good riddance... That said, I wish him (and his Moms) all the best!!!!

I personally thought they screwed up giving him that big money contract (this goes back to Rick Smith's decisions (the amateur)). Jacoby will make someone a fine #3 WR & if he hooks up with a big armed QB, we'll be hearing his name in the future.

I'm not going to say good riddance, because I prefer Jacoby's outside speed to Walter's sure hands. Especially with OD, Casey & Arian on the field. Nothing against KDub, but he's a #3 slot reciever, doesn't belong on the outside.

But it is what it is.

pirbroke
05-02-2012, 08:57 AM
Some of you are pretty harsh towards Jacoby.

Don't y'all remember the game where he had 10 receptions for over 200 yards? What about the game last year where he bailed Schuab out late in the 4th quarter against the Raiders for the win???


:thinking:

Wait, those things never happened... Nevermind.



Oh man you got me there, Thought my mind was going. I didn't notice the last sentence for like a minute.

thunderkyss
05-02-2012, 09:14 AM
Good post.

Jacoby was and still is unrealized potential. As a coach that would be hard to give up on at least untill there was something worthwhile behind him. Rick didnt decieve anyone. He held on to him till the draft trying to get some kind of a return. You might remember those trade rumors began on the second day of the draft. Due dilegence.

As far as Jacoby? He was always as much a threat to the defense as he was our team.

So he thought he could realize trade value for Jacoby but not Winston?

Let's say you've got cut one of those two guys to get under the cap, which one would you cut?

I'm not a big Winston fan, but I know he is closer to a starting RT than Jacoby is to a starting WR. I'd have cut Jacoby to get under the cap & tried to trade Winston by the draft. Even if we're more confident in Butler (you'd wonder why he didn't start once in 2011) & Winston makes it to camp he'd be a better back-up to Butler than Jacoby is to AJ. Then if you have absolutely no interest in a trade for Winston, you go to him about taking less money. He can take it or leave it & we wouldn't be in any worse position than we are right now.

Instead, we lose Mario, Brisiel, Winston, & Jason Allen to the cap so we could keep Jacoby on the roster for 2 months. All but Mario contributed heavily towards our first play-off victory. All of them created holes on our team that has/had to be filled. Instead of Mario, you've got a rookie, instead of Winston, you've got a guy who couldn't earn playing time last season. Instead of Brisiel, we don't know what the heck we've got. Instead of Jason Allen you have everybody's favorite CB (Kareem) taking more snaps.

Texan_Bill
05-02-2012, 09:23 AM
We drafted him because he is very talented. Everyone playing in the NFL is very talented. To say Jacoby is very talented is far from a stretch.

I didn't have a problem with his route running. I guess it's a subjective thing (though it shouldn't be).

Concerning his "dumbass" decision making. Surely this begs to question why coach Joe is still around if Jacoby has been the "best" thing we've got for a punt returner over the last 5 years. But then, Jacoby was one of the better punt returners in the AFC in 2011.



I personally thought they screwed up giving him that big money contract (this goes back to Rick Smith's decisions (the amateur)). Jacoby will make someone a fine #3 WR & if he hooks up with a big armed QB, we'll be hearing his name in the future.

I'm not going to say good riddance, because I prefer Jacoby's outside speed to Walter's sure hands. Especially with OD, Casey & Arian on the field. Nothing against KDub, but he's a #3 slot reciever, doesn't belong on the outside.

But it is what it is.

AJ------> Talented Reciever

JJ------> Physically gifted with potential (more accurately, unrealized potential)

Some may call that semantics, I call it truth.

Texan_Bill
05-02-2012, 09:24 AM
Oh man you got me there, Thought my mind was going. I didn't notice the last sentence for like a minute.

HaHa!! Gotcha!!

thunderkyss
05-02-2012, 09:33 AM
They lost $500k for cutting him today but had they waited till June 1 the price would have went up but they could have spread it over this year and next .....

Just because they cut him when they did does not mean it wasn't a June 1st cut. Most likely it wasn't, but the team can designate it a June 1st cut even if they do it before June 1st. I don't know how they classified this one, but if McClain says we lost money...... chances are we hit the lotto.... powerball even.


Some of you are pretty harsh towards Jacoby.



Here is my take on that.

Some of the fans here go way too far. Some of the name calling & insults are uncalled for, IMO. Like you mentioned, he's good people. & we know some of the players & or their relatives at least read this board if they don't participate.

Jacoby screws up.... that's fine, I don't have a problem saying Jacoby screwed up. But to call him a dumbass, or some of the other things said about him... I think it's uncalled for. He's going out there doing his best to try to win a game for us. Yes he has issues, but we shouldn't blame him for the coach putting him out there & in a position to "cost us" a game in spite of those issues. Then, it is just a game.

Like I said before, he hasn't done anything stupid off-field that I know of in well over a year. Like someone else mentioned, he hasn't muffed a punt in two years. And the biggest thing, it is not his fault he has been our best option at punt returner for 5 years.

I don't care to argue with people over their "right" to voice their opinions here on this board. It is their "right" & they can do whatever the mods let them get away with.

But when we start seeing thread titles or newspaper articles questioning if Mario Williams or Demeco Ryans or whoever is taking a shot at Houston fans when they talk about being better appreciated elsewhere, I just shake my head.

Rey
05-02-2012, 09:40 AM
Let's say you've got cut one of those two guys to get under the cap, which one would you cut?

I'm not a big Winston fan, but I know he is closer to a starting RT than Jacoby is to a starting WR. I'd have cut Jacoby to get under the cap & tried to trade Winston by the draft. Even if we're more confident in Butler (you'd wonder why he didn't start once in 2011)

Butler was lost for the season in late September. Even if he had been healthy he probably still wouldn't have gotten a start.

A lot of the evaluations are made once the season is over and you've had time to reflect. During the season it's not likely that you're going to make adjustments like that unless the guy is just terrible.

Same thing with Jacoby...He flashed during the season. He had some bad moments of course, but IMHO he is not here anymore because of the fumbled punt return. They couldn't keep him around after that.

Marcus
05-02-2012, 09:50 AM
After reading this article (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/05/texans-release-much-maligned-receiver-jacoby-jones/) in the Chronicle today, it makes me wonder if Jacoby's agent was reading this thread.

After the Texans were unable to work out a trade for receiver Jacoby Jones during the draft, agent Kennard McGuire asked general manager Rick Smith to release his client.

Smith could have waited until after June 1 to free up $3 million under the salary cap rather than $2.5 million, but he agreed, placing Jones on waivers and clearing a spot on the roster for one of the young receivers the Texans drafted or signed as undrafted free agents.

“After visiting with Rick, we came to the conclusion that a change of scenery and fresh start would be the best thing for Jacoby,” McGuire said. “There’s a tremendous amount of gratitude for them doing it this time.”

Jones, a third-round pick from Lane College in 2007, had become a controversial figure in Houston. The coup de grace was Jones muffing a punt in the 20-13 divisional playoff loss at Baltimore. Fans and media criticized him. Many blamed him for the defeat.

“Jacoby has done well by the Texans organization,” McGuire said. “He’s won games for the Texans. He’s contributed to the team’s success.

“But I’ve never seen a player more scrutinized and criticized to the level that Jacoby was. It got to a point where I believe it was almost nerve-wracking for him to perform at the level we feel he was capable of performing. He became Public Enemy No. 1, and that’s unfortunate.”

El Tejano
05-02-2012, 10:11 AM
I got all the information now about Jacoby so now I will speak about what I think of his release.
He did good things for us. Even if he made bad plays at PR, he also made some good ones that helped us win games. I think back to the game where Matt Schaub scored the last second TD vs Miami in Reliant. We were in position to win that game because Jacoby made a hell of a return in that game at a time our offense was really struggling.

He had his opportunity this year, as a 5 year vet, to show that he could be counted on as at least a viable #2 option at WR and he didn't deliver. Our passing offense still struggled without Andre Johnson to the point where TJ Yates was looking very vanilla against Indy in a game we should've whooped Indy. That's not all Jacoby but it was evident he couldn't demand half the repsect that Andre or Walter did.

Last off season he got paid to make the above mentioned impact and he didn't deliver that this year, so we couldn't continue to pay a guy who will occasionally make a play at WR or PR when we got 4 or 5 guys who can do the same.

Everyone can blame Jacoby for the muffed punts and to some extent I will too, but I've maintained that a large part of the blame should go to Joe Marciano as well. Here is a player that struggled with muffing punts early in his career and every week or so we continued to see the same player try to make a play off the bounce with a defender in front of his face. That should've never been allowed for that player. NEVER!!!! I understand he was our best option as a PR for this team, but a coach knows to tell that PR not to make those kind of plays, succesful or not, based on that players history. In fact, I recall going back and looking at The Texans Playoff Win vs. Cincy and Jacoby did it not once, but twice and on one occasion almost lost the football. It was no shock to me the next week when it happened again and he was on the losing side of that play.

drs23
05-02-2012, 10:13 AM
Anyone else find it a coincidence that JJ gets released when Gaffney got released?

Are you in some way inferring that Jacoby will end up in Shannyton?

Marcus
05-02-2012, 10:38 AM
Anyone else find it a coincidence that JJ gets released when Gaffney got released?

It was just two different teams trying to unload a player trade-wise during the draft, but had no takers. So they were released.

Now, if we end up signing Gaffney, that would be different. But that would shock me to the core.

powda
05-02-2012, 10:40 AM
So he thought he could realize trade value for Jacoby but not Winston?


You have inside information that says we didnt shop Winston? According to 610 this morning Jacoby's agent asked for the trade. And remember your not just trading talent...your trading a contract. Both of these guys had dumb contracts.

Dont get me wrong...I wasnt happy about the Winston cut either.

Dutchrudder
05-02-2012, 10:51 AM
Jacoby Jones is heavily scrutinized because he is the Texans' Bill Buckner.

The Pencil Neck
05-02-2012, 11:02 AM
When Jacoby was drafted -- a talented player from a small school, a project WR -- a lot of us were wary but really wanted him to do well. So we got behind him and rooted for him.

Then he flashed some special ST play that highlighted how good he could possibly be. And that got all our hopes up.

But he had some flaws. He was reckless with the ball. He didn't always make the catch he needed to make while at other times making circus catches. He didn't always run the best routes (and I think he sometimes ran the wrong routes resulting in underthrows and overthrows.)

And so for most of us who had such high hopes for him, it was crushing to see him not develop into the player we all thought he could be. We stopped trusting him. We remembered all those questionable decisions fielding punts, all those muffs, all those drops, all the balls that seemed to not be where he was. So as high as our hopes were for him, that's how low our estimation ended up.

OzzO
05-02-2012, 12:47 PM
After reading this article (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/05/texans-release-much-maligned-receiver-jacoby-jones/) in the Chronicle today, it makes me wonder if Jacoby's agent was reading this thread.

“But I’ve never seen a player more scrutinized and criticized to the level that Jacoby was. It got to a point where I believe it was almost nerve-wracking for him to perform at the level we feel he was capable of performing. He became Public Enemy No. 1, and that’s unfortunate.”

His agent must be new to the NFL, much less to Houston.

RagingBull
05-02-2012, 01:27 PM
But, in one off-season, three of my Jerseys have become useless. Mario, Demeco, & Jacoby (yes, I do own one).

Maybe the new center Ben Jones will decide instead of a 50'-70's number he wants to be #12 to throw a bone to all of the Jacoby Jones jersey owners. Or maybe the UDFA Jones for NC will end up making the team and want to wear #12...you never know.

CloakNNNdagger
05-02-2012, 01:32 PM
His agent must be new to the NFL, much less to Houston.

He's not new. Andre Johnson's agent?

List of his high profile clients: LIST (http://msworldllc.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=128&Itemid=426)

ChampionTexan
05-02-2012, 01:37 PM
His agent must be new to the NFL, much less to Houston.

He's a merchant, and Jacoby is his merchandise. He's only doing his job. Once the merchandise gets damaged, you still try to protect it so that you can sell it at 40% instead of 75% off (or avoid writing it off completely).

Excessive vitriol towards Jacoby is pointless. Vitriol or insults towards his agent is just not understanding how things work.

Dread-Head
05-02-2012, 01:38 PM
Hallelujah...:whip:

GP
05-02-2012, 03:41 PM
I knew there was a reason I didn't include him in my depth chart over in the other thread a few days ago.

This was better to have done it now than to wait June 1.

Fresh start for everyone.

chicagotexan2
05-02-2012, 03:42 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgi55cAmoS1qe7kv3o1_500.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm1h2bYLw41qdv8m9.gif

TrapStar is probably dissapointed that I didn't post the full 'Pee Pee Tuck Dance'. There there TrapStar.

http://myco-tek.org/images/smilies/ChrisFarleyDance.gif

ATXtexanfan
05-02-2012, 03:48 PM
But, in one off-season, three of my Jerseys have become useless. Mario, Demeco, & Jacoby (yes, I do own one).

I thought I was the only one with this problem

GP
05-02-2012, 03:50 PM
Jersey that is almost a 100% "lock" is #80.

You know you're tempting fate by getting any other Texans jersey. #80 is the way to go.

Perki-Perk
05-02-2012, 04:39 PM
I thought I was the only one with this problem

I had 2 Williams and a Ryans jersey...ugh

Still have the 2 Fosters the 2 Johnsons and the Cush. Need a Watt and a Mercilus now I suppose.

Ryan
05-02-2012, 04:43 PM
I think #56 and #99 are gonna be staple jersey numbers in the future as well but you never know with these things. #23 has already secured his spot for a while at least, unless he really just tanked CJ2YPC style.

SheTexan
05-02-2012, 04:52 PM
This. According to McClain's tweet we lost $500k by not waiting to release him after June 1st. So must be trying to sign Gaffney.

In other news..:hurrah:

Gaffney signed with NE today!

False Start
05-02-2012, 05:13 PM
Maybe the new center Ben Jones will decide instead of a 50'-70's number he wants to be #12 to throw a bone to all of the Jacoby Jones jersey owners. Or maybe the UDFA Jones for NC will end up making the team and want to wear #12...you never know.

He's gonna wear 60.

They have the jersey numbers listed on the HT.com site (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster.html).

CloakNNNdagger
05-02-2012, 05:29 PM
http://blog.chron.com/fanzone/2012/05/photos-jacoby-jones-as-a-texan/#4857-13 (http://blog.chron.com/fanzone/2012/05/photos-jacoby-jones-as-a-texan/#4857-13)


Whoopsy Daisy!!..............

Giant Tiger
05-02-2012, 09:44 PM
The CFL draft takes place tomorrow... just saying...

drs23
05-02-2012, 10:30 PM
Jersey that is almost a 100% "lock" is #80.

You know you're tempting fate by getting any other Texans jersey. #80 is the way to go.

That's a great choice though I think #23, #56 & #99 at this point are pretty safe investments as well. At some point in time, they'll all be obsolete but I think it will be quite some time and probably wear longer than the awesome #80.

Edit: Didn't read down far enough, Ryan is speaking truth. :)

Texan_Bill
05-02-2012, 10:34 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm1h2bYLw41qdv8m9.gif

TrapStar is probably dissapointed that I didn't post the full 'Pee Pee Tuck Dance'. There there TrapStar.

http://myco-tek.org/images/smilies/ChrisFarleyDance.gif

Neg. rep on so many levels... Let's get you back together man!!! :spit:

Why didn't you throw in a little:

http://www.11points.com/images/animatedgifs/mchammer.gif

majestrate
05-02-2012, 10:52 PM
here's how i found out, and my response; all via gmail chat...

him: You finally got your wish.
me: they traded/fired jacoby?
him: Put him on waivers today.
me: finally
the texans board i go to is probably exploding from everyone posting their happiness
i kind of feel badly for him, because he is actually a good guy and a good teammate, he just sucks on the field
him: Ha

obviously he doesn't completely suck, and to a degree, i agree with his agent. jacoby has made things happen/helped kick-start the offense on more than one occasion. and he is one of only a handful of players where their mistakes completely over-shadow their successes, even if the successes were to out-number the mistakes. in our case, i would assume that comes from not having another very reliable receiver. yes, KW and OD can be solid, but they don't really fill-in/replace AJ. And since no one else can really replace AJ, that left JacJo as the default fill-in, setting expectations too high, too soon.

i'm sure people will disagree, but that's what i think.

and this is coming from someone who has wanted to see JacJo go for 4 years now. though, i'll readily admit, most of that animosity was purely reactionary and not logically based

anyway, the most important piece of this post is:

Not that you'll ever read this, but I wish you well Jacoby. I hope you find your fit in the next team you sign with, and I also hope that you're able to bring your game together and turn into a star player. Though, I also hope you don't make us eat crow for letting you go by helping to beat us in a post-season game ;)

GP
05-03-2012, 12:05 AM
I think #56 and #99 are gonna be staple jersey numbers in the future as well but you never know with these things. #23 has already secured his spot for a while at least, unless he really just tanked CJ2YPC style.

I still say #80 has those guys beat.

Things can always change with 56, 99, and 23.

But 80? It's Texans forever, 100%. As in take-it-to-the-bank.

That was my reason for getting AJ's jersey several years ago. I thought long and hard about which jersey would have the best chance at "staying power." And it looks like he will be the Texans player with the longest history and the most remembered career here.

Sure, he might go play a final year for some scrub team...they all do that, it seems. But we all know he'd be back Jerry Rice style to sign and retire as a Texans. He will go into the HOF as a Texans player too. #80 is a Texans fan's best chance at staying power with a jersey.

drs23
05-03-2012, 12:22 AM
I still say #80 has those guys beat.

Things can always change with 56, 99, and 23.

But 80? It's Texans forever, 100%. As in take-it-to-the-bank.

That was my reason for getting AJ's jersey several years ago. I thought long and hard about which jersey would have the best chance at "staying power." And it looks like he will be the Texans player with the longest history and the most remembered career here.

Sure, he might go play a final year for some scrub team...they all do that, it seems. But we all know he'd be back Jerry Rice style to sign and retire as a Texans. He will go into the HOF as a Texans player too. #80 is a Texans fan's best chance at staying power with a jersey.

GP, don't be scaird to get any of these numbers as well, for the same reason. I'd bet they ain't goin' anywhere either. Except up the record books.

TheMatrix31
05-03-2012, 05:10 AM
What's the obsession with having "current" jerseys? That's foolish. Who cares. Yeah it sucks that a player might move on or get dealt or whatever, but think of it as a "museum" of sorts, and as proof to yourself that you've been with the team through thick and thin.

PapaL
05-03-2012, 05:47 AM
What's the obsession with having "current" jerseys? That's foolish. Who cares. Yeah it sucks that a player might move on or get dealt or whatever, but think of it as a "museum" of sorts, and as proof to yourself that you've been with the team through thick and thin.

Do you wear the charm bracelet your first love gave you? What about a wedding band from an ex-spouse?

There's an emotional attachment to these thing. That's the obsession.

Vinnie
05-03-2012, 08:28 AM
My battle red was a Mario jersey. Good thing that only comes around once a season.

Goldensilence
05-03-2012, 09:07 AM
The moment he got taken in the third, specially from a small school his expectations were set by this staff. He was undoubtedly THEIR guy. Physically he has the tools to be a good #2, mentally it turns out, not so much. He just couldn't string it together on a regular basis.

I do hope a change of scenery and maybe being put in a spot where he doesn't "feel" fans expectations so heavily, allows him to develop into the best he can finally.

XI CMURDER IX
05-03-2012, 10:18 AM
Jersey that is almost a 100% "lock" is #80.

You know you're tempting fate by getting any other Texans jersey. #80 is the way to go.

I agree, fans will wear #80 jerseys long after he is done playing for us.

TheMatrix31
05-04-2012, 03:17 AM
Do you wear the charm bracelet your first love gave you? What about a wedding band from an ex-spouse?

There's an emotional attachment to these thing. That's the obsession.

Interestingly enough, my first real love gave me a customized Texans jersey with my FIRST name on the back. Who DOES that? I wore that every damn gameday through the 2010 season. Last year I decided I wouldn't wear it, and it was our best season yet.

Thinking I should burn it for good, hahaha.

But on another note, I have 3 or 4 Phoenix Suns jerseys and neither of the players play for the team anymore but I still wear them.

NitroGSXR
05-04-2012, 08:09 AM
Visiting Carolina.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828d924f/article/jacoby-jones-visits-carolina-panthers-would-be-fit

Vinnie
05-04-2012, 08:36 AM
I have my fingers crossed for him, scenery changes have helped lot's of guys throughout the years. I'm hoping that's the case for Jacoby.

Texan_Touchdown
05-04-2012, 08:58 AM
I hope Jacoby has a great career somewhere else, but he had to go. He should have been out of here last season, but he had the "Jacoby Jones one amazing touchdown a year" in the 1st game and that kept him a spot lol.

beerlover
05-04-2012, 09:01 AM
small hands are small hands :kitten:

El Tejano
05-04-2012, 09:19 AM
Listening to Sirius NFL Radio, and Pat Kirwain was pretty much in agreement with us. He's a guy that was drafted to help Andre who made some plays on special teams but couldn't quite get out of being the 3rd receiver. The Texans have younger, cheaper talent to do that with now that doesn't equate to paying Jacoby what they paid him to do. However, he's got some talent so perhaps a change will do some good. There have been several receivers who don't get it done with their first team and then go on to have great careers. Those were Pat Kirwain's words.

Texan_Bill
05-04-2012, 09:26 AM
Visiting Carolina.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828d924f/article/jacoby-jones-visits-carolina-panthers-would-be-fit

From Nitro's link:

Recently scapegoated former Houston Texans wide receiver Jacoby Jones didn't have to wait long to find a potential new gig.

"Recently scapegoated"?? Are you kidding me??? Recently outted as a physically gifted guy that after 5 or 6 years just never "got it" and/or never matured. A guy who consistently made bone-headed plays!

Scapegoated my a$$!

Corrosion
05-04-2012, 09:32 AM
small hands are small hands :kitten:

This is an X-Ray of Jacoby Jones head ....


http://images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/538/800/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_380736.jpg


Notice the lack of an actual brain ....

disaacks3
05-04-2012, 09:42 AM
From Nitro's link:



"Recently scapegoated"?? Are you kidding me??? Recently outted as a physically gifted guy that after 5 or 6 years just never "got it" and/or never matured. A guy who consistently made bone-headed plays!

Scapegoated my a$$! He might not be as bad as well all remember, but the 31 other teams all let him clear waivers, as NONE were willing to pick up his contract. That, more than anything else, cements the fact he's not worth #2 (and maybe not #3) money.

Kaiser Toro
05-04-2012, 09:46 AM
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/yes/lip_licker.gif

beerlover
05-04-2012, 09:48 AM
I don't think Jacoby was ever the same player after he got pancaked (seperated shoulder) sideline after long return a few years ago. He was on a nice upwards trendline, then missed time & played w/fear that point on, still Texans resigned him to that nice fat contract last offseason.

Dutchrudder
05-04-2012, 10:06 AM
Carolina is a good spot for him. Maybe he could hold on to the ball if they stick some Cammy Cam juice on his hands.

Thorn
05-04-2012, 11:35 AM
I do not wish Jacoby any bad luck, unless he's playing us of course. If he catches on somewhere, it will interesting to watch his stats.

thunderkyss
05-04-2012, 11:45 AM
He might not be as bad as well all remember, but the 31 other teams all let him clear waivers, as NONE were willing to pick up his contract. That, more than anything else, cements the fact he's not worth #2 (and maybe not #3) money.

I don't think that was ever argued. I'm one of his biggest supporters, & I didn't like that contract.

ChampionTexan
05-04-2012, 11:50 AM
He might not be as bad as well all remember, but the 31 other teams all let him clear waivers, as NONE were willing to pick up his contract. That, more than anything else, cements the fact he's not worth #2 (and maybe not #3) money.

From February 1, until the NFL trade deadline, players with four or more years of service become free agents immediately - there are no waivers to clear.

Not suggesting anybody would have picked up his contract - just that nobody was even given the chance.

Corrosion
05-04-2012, 11:54 AM
I don't think that was ever argued. I'm one of his biggest supporters, & I didn't like that contract.

When that deal was signed , I thought it was a good contract .... He just didnt play up to it.


Wonder where he ends up ?

GP
05-04-2012, 05:07 PM
Visiting Carolina.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828d924f/article/jacoby-jones-visits-carolina-panthers-would-be-fit

I saw that on my NFL Mobile app...couldn't copy and paste it, though.

Thank you for posting.

I laughed out loud when I read the part about him being "scapegoated."

Do these guys not look at our team and players in a real, objective light? He was a long-term project...he got a contract that was a bit of a gamble...and we didn't want to go any further with him. The incident in Baltimore was just the final piece of confirmation that he was not going to reach a new level for us.

If anything, he wasn't scapegoated...he was given a lot of slack to the point that he tripped over it. No other Kubiak player on offense has been given the time to develop like Jacoby Jones had.

Corrosion
05-04-2012, 05:21 PM
I saw that on my NFL Mobile app...couldn't copy and paste it, though.

Thank you for posting.

I laughed out loud when I read the part about him being "scapegoated."

Do these guys not look at our team and players in a real, objective light? He was a long-term project...he got a contract that was a bit of a gamble...and we didn't want to go any further with him. The incident in Baltimore was just the final piece of confirmation that he was not going to reach a new level for us.

If anything, he wasn't scapegoated...he was given a lot of slack to the point that he tripped over it. No other Kubiak player on offense has been given the time to develop like Jacoby Jones had.

Do we look at our own players objectively ? ..... Not really. When I said Ryans was due a paycut , how many said I was nutz ? Instead , he gets moved .... for salary purposes.

disaacks3
05-04-2012, 05:31 PM
From February 1, until the NFL trade deadline, players with four or more years of service become free agents immediately - there are no waivers to clear.

Not suggesting anybody would have picked up his contract - just that nobody was even given the chance. Perhaps. According to everything I've found, he wasn't cut, he was waived. Bob Allen & all the mainstram outlets were reporting that he cleared waivers along with his carolina visit last night.

drs23
05-04-2012, 05:44 PM
Perhaps. According to everything I've found, he wasn't cut, he was waived. Bob Allen & all the mainstram outlets were reporting that he cleared waivers along with his carolina visit last night.

Then those cats need to do a little research. :kitten:

ChampionTexan
05-04-2012, 06:04 PM
Perhaps. According to everything I've found, he wasn't cut, he was waived. Bob Allen & all the mainstram outlets were reporting that he cleared waivers along with his carolina visit last night.

Then they were wrong (and there's no difference between being cut and waived).

From Article 29 (WAIVERS) of the current CBA (found on page 155)

(a) Whenever a player who has finished the season in which his fourth year of credited service has been earned under the Bert Bell/Pete Rozelle Plan is placed on waivers between February 1 and the trading deadline, his contract will be considered terminated and the player will be completely free at any time thereafter to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such player...

(b) Whenever a player who has finished less than the season in which his fourth year of credited service has been earned under the Bert Bell/Pete Rozelle Plan is placed on waivers, the player's Player Contract will be subject to the waiver system and may be awarded to a claiming Club.

LINK (http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/General/2011_Final_CBA.pdf)

houstonspartan
05-04-2012, 06:41 PM
I saw that on my NFL Mobile app...couldn't copy and paste it, though.

Thank you for posting.

I laughed out loud when I read the part about him being "scapegoated."

Do these guys not look at our team and players in a real, objective light? He was a long-term project...he got a contract that was a bit of a gamble...and we didn't want to go any further with him. The incident in Baltimore was just the final piece of confirmation that he was not going to reach a new level for us.

If anything, he wasn't scapegoated...he was given a lot of slack to the point that he tripped over it. No other Kubiak player on offense has been given the time to develop like Jacoby Jones had.

Scapegoated? Is that what he's saying?

Give me a freakin break. Jacoby was CODDLED. There's a fine line between mentoring (which Gary/Rick did at first) to coddling (which that mentoring turned into).

I hope Jacoby isn't going to turn into one of those stank players who bashes this team after he leaves (mainly to cover their own faings). If he does, he will feel the full wrath of Texans fans.

CloakNNNdagger
05-04-2012, 09:14 PM
Following his Thursday visit to the Panthers, free agent WR/KR Jacoby Jones is scheduled to meet with two more teams before signing a contract.

Carolina is reportedly interested in Jones as a No. 2 receiver, where he would apparently unseat Brandon LaFell and move ahead of David Gettis. We wouldn't be so aggressive in handing Jones that job, but it's going to be an open camp battle regardless. The identity of the other two teams is unknown.
May. 4 - 1:29 pm et
Source: Charlotte Observer

Corrosion
05-05-2012, 01:03 AM
May. 4 - 1:29 pm et
Source: Charlotte Observer

#2 ? .... this episode of Sesamie Street is brought to you by the letters OMG & WTF.

Rey
05-05-2012, 01:09 AM
Has it already been discussed that his agent is saying they asked for a release?

Anyone believe that?

I think it's plausible.

Texans may have told jacoby his spot in the rotation or on the team was not guaranteed or maybe he inferred that from the draft picks.

He may have just figured that he was on his way out regardless and the texans happily complied with his request.

I don't know. Could just be them saving face.

kiwitexansfan
05-05-2012, 01:11 AM
Scapegoated? Is that what he's saying?

Give me a freakin break. Jacoby was CODDLED. There's a fine line between mentoring (which Gary/Rick did at first) to coddling (which that mentoring turned into).

I hope Jacoby isn't going to turn into one of those stank players who bashes this team after he leaves (mainly to cover their own faings). If he does, he will feel the full wrath of Texans fans.

The reaction to Jones's role in the Baltimore loss does approach scapegoating levels, let's be honest.

Was that all people disliked him for, no, but he did share more than his portion of blame for that loss.

Corrosion
05-05-2012, 01:31 AM
The reaction to Jones's role in the Baltimore loss does approach scapegoating levels, let's be honest.

Was that all people disliked him for, no, but he did share more than his portion of blame for that loss.

Three INT's by the rookie QB .... who was in over his head.

The fact that they were in that game in the final minutes says a lot about the defense ....

Rey
05-05-2012, 01:47 AM
The reaction to Jones's role in the Baltimore loss does approach scapegoating levels, let's be honest.

Was that all people disliked him for, no, but he did share more than his portion of blame for that loss.

It can be argued that the bone headed move by jones started a domino effect.

Up until that point the game looked very winnable.

You are a vet. An established player in the league. You have a rookie at qb and you go and do that?

Sorry, but that was a huge momentum swing in the game that we never quite recovered from. He pretty much took away an offensive possession and spotted them 7 points.

He deserves all the blame he gets for that particular play.

CloakNNNdagger
05-05-2012, 06:42 AM
It can be argued that the bone headed move by jones started a domino effect.

Up until that point the game looked very winnable.

You are a vet. An established player in the league. You have a rookie at qb and you go and do that?

Sorry, but that was a huge momentum swing in the game that we never quite recovered from. He pretty much took away an offensive possession and spotted them 7 points.

He deserves all the blame he gets for that particular play.

Let's not forget the next punt that he fumbled but recovered.

And I noticed something else. Most teams don't even kick the ball to returners like Manning. He's been feared as a returner since he helped the Chicago Bears to the Super Bowl. Baltimore dared and he made them pay. Teams like in the case of Baltimore seemed to actually punt the ball to Jacoby, anxiously awaiting to be treated to his typical version of the Mexican hat dance......or better yet, to a very entertaining juggling act......and if really luck, that ultimate gift from heaven.

kiwitexansfan
05-05-2012, 09:28 AM
Let's not forget the next punt that he fumbled but recovered.

And I noticed something else. Most teams don't even kick the ball to returners like Manning. He's been feared as a returner since he helped the Chicago Bears to the Super Bowl. Baltimore dared and he made them pay. Teams like in the case of Baltimore seemed to actually punt the ball to Jacoby, anxiously awaiting to be treated to his typical version of the Mexican hat dance......or better yet, to a very entertaining juggling act......and if really luck, that ultimate gift from heaven.

Yet Jones was voted the pro bowl alternate, surely that shows a degree if respect?

GP
05-05-2012, 09:48 AM
Scapegoated? Is that what he's saying?

Give me a freakin break. Jacoby was CODDLED. There's a fine line between mentoring (which Gary/Rick did at first) to coddling (which that mentoring turned into).

I hope Jacoby isn't going to turn into one of those stank players who bashes this team after he leaves (mainly to cover their own faings). If he does, he will feel the full wrath of Texans fans.

The author wrote the part about being scapegoated. Jacoby has no quotes in the article. I should have clarified. My bad.

The NFL articles have a lot of opinion written into them. Almost like a blog post rather than a straight journalism story. 90% of the article will be factual and then there's 10% where the author is writing in some commentary to make it sound less like a Press Release.

CloakNNNdagger
05-05-2012, 09:59 AM
Yet Jones was voted the pro bowl alternate, surely that shows a degree if respect?

In 2011, he was ranked 3rd in yards returned........but that was because he had the 2nd most attempts.

When you look at his average return, he wasn't even ranked in the top 10. In fact, he ranked tied for 13th.

Go figure.

welsh texan
05-05-2012, 10:01 AM
Yet Jones was voted the pro bowl alternate, surely that shows a degree if respect?

List me the punt returners in the AFC last year, the whole conference sucked at PR, its a statement of the lack of talent at the position in the AFC, that Jacoby was alternate based on past success.

You know your teams in good shape when...the release of your 4th WR/PR is the main talking point going into training camp :dancer:

Scooter
05-05-2012, 10:55 AM
with the jags push to win the superbowl with their punt team, we had to do something drastic just to keep pace. i'm hearing that the texans have plans to trade two firsts and a third to chicago for devon hester who will never come off the field - always 40 yards behind the play incase of sneak punts.

jones couldnt handle the pressure and asked to be released.

majestrate
05-05-2012, 04:23 PM
It can be argued that the bone headed move by jones started a domino effect.

Up until that point the game looked very winnable.

You are a vet. An established player in the league. You have a rookie at qb and you go and do that?

Sorry, but that was a huge momentum swing in the game that we never quite recovered from. He pretty much took away an offensive possession and spotted them 7 points.

He deserves all the blame he gets for that particular play.
I won't argue that momentum can be a game changer, but if the team is SB bound, 2 mistakes won't be enough to knock them out of the running. It's illogical to put all that blame on JacJo, or all of it on T.J. GK shares some of it, as well as the rest of the offense. And I wouldn't put more blame on JacJo than I do anyone else. Mainly for the fact that I imagine that he has enough guilt for what happened already, he doesn't need others to be pointing the finger at him to make him feel any worse.

Personally, I think us losing in the playoffs is a blessing in disguise (though that wasn't my original thought/feeling). If we had made it into the SB, consider the amount of pressure we'd have to return this year, and to win it this year. Personally, I still think we're a season or two away from being real contenders, and continue to prefer to have a gradual improvement instead of an explosion and immediate decompression. Crawl, walk, run, as it were.

Wolf
05-05-2012, 04:30 PM
2 turnovers gave the Ravens 14 points
Jacoby cost 7 when the Ravens got the ball at the 2 and Flacco threw a 1 yard TD

Yates INT gave the Ravens the ball at the Texans 38 and they scored a TD there

Ravens ended up with like 227 yards of total offense

just can't give that offense gifts (or any offense)

GP
05-05-2012, 04:41 PM
I won't argue that momentum can be a game changer, but if the team is SB bound, 2 mistakes won't be enough to knock them out of the running. It's illogical to put all that blame on JacJo, or all of it on T.J. GK shares some of it, as well as the rest of the offense. And I wouldn't put more blame on JacJo than I do anyone else. Mainly for the fact that I imagine that he has enough guilt for what happened already, he doesn't need others to be pointing the finger at him to make him feel any worse.

Personally, I think us losing in the playoffs is a blessing in disguise (though that wasn't my original thought/feeling). If we had made it into the SB, consider the amount of pressure we'd have to return this year, and to win it this year. Personally, I still think we're a season or two away from being real contenders, and continue to prefer to have a gradual improvement instead of an explosion and immediate decompression. Crawl, walk, run, as it were.

I posted a clip of the opening game in 2011 between Maryland and Miami (FL). It's in the Davin Meggett thread.

Maryland won the game 32 to 24--Maryland wins that game by eight points.

In that game, Maryland was the lucky recipient of TWO touchdowns via two turnovers that were both returned for TDs. In essence, had Miami not had those two untimely turnovers that led to two immediate Maryland TDs, Miami wins the game 24 to 18.

Tell me how Jacoby Jones' bad decision making and its immediate consequences did not impact the playoff game? It absolutely did. Someone else in this same discussion detailed how that 7 points dictated how the Texans approached the final few possessions we had in that game. Without the JJ fumble and subsequent TD by the Ravens, we could have played the final few possessions differently and only needed a FG. Instead, we had to go the length of the field and get a TD.

What is ironic, as well, is that Arian Foster fumbled the ball late in the game and Jacoby Jones was luckily in the right spot at the right time to pounce on it and recover it for us. Jacoby was also in the right place at the right time in the last Colts game (at Indy) when a pass ricocheted off of one of our other WRs (or a TE, can't remember which) and he plucks it out of the air for what was truly a miracle catch and allowed us to continue the drive.

However, his two fortunate recoveries do not outweigh the singular bad moment he had in a pivotal game in the playoffs that really cost us. In addition, he never really progressed to the point that he was a consistent and reliable part of our offense. A couple years back, IIRC not sure on the exact timeframe here, Kubiak let Kris Brown finish the year even after we all knew it was over for him. He let Jacoby continue to field punts in the Ravens playoff game, too, and so I admire that the HC lets his guys finish out. But when it comes to beginning a new year, we did the right thing by signing Rackers to take over for Kris. We did the right thing by letting Jacoby go too. It wasn't going to get better for Kris nor for Jacoby. A favor was done to both guys, IMO.

Buckner for the Red Sox had an equally bad moment that determined the outcome of a World Series game vs. the Mets. Players have these moments, and unfortunately I think they have to own those moments for all its worth. Good or bad, decisive or non-decisive, the player has to own the moment. it's what all of sports depends upon, IMO, the idea that great moments of triumph and great moments of defeat are balanced upon the singular efforts of a player and his team.

majestrate
05-05-2012, 05:16 PM
If only, if only, if only.

My point is that there are many things that might have led to a victory. JacJo not muffing that punt isn't the lone "if only".

Besides, you never know what would've happened if JacJo hadn't made that mistake. For all you know, it could've resulted in us getting into the red zone and having to settle for a field goal. Or it could've resulted in one of our skill players getting injured.

Don't get me wrong, I think his time with us was up before this past season, and didn't understand why we would re-sign him, but I don't think it's fair to say that it's his fault we didn't win against the Ravens. It is fair to say that he had an obvious hand in that loss, but it wasn't completely his fault, and it's not something that put us in a losing position. The game was ours to win, and we didn't, because of a number of mistakes, including JacJo's.

EllisUnit
05-05-2012, 05:48 PM
i dont really care why we lost, our who is to blame. All i care about is making it to the big game this season. We had a solid draft, we have a better than average team, so lets all move on and look for bigger and better things this coming season !!!

ObsiWan
05-05-2012, 08:35 PM
It can be argued that the bone headed move by jones started a domino effect.

Up until that point the game looked very winnable.

You are a vet. An established player in the league. You have a rookie at qb and you go and do that?

Sorry, but that was a huge momentum swing in the game that we never quite recovered from. He pretty much took away an offensive possession and spotted them 7 points.

He deserves all the blame he gets for that particular play.

I totally agree with any blame he gets for trying to field a punt on the bounce with the Ravens' punt cover guys bearing down on him. No excuse for a punt return specialist to screw up in that fashion. None.

But to say that play changed the game from being "winnable" with less than five minutes had gone by in a sixty-minute game....? That's a bit much. If we let them take our 'nads five minutes into the game then we deserved to lose. And the whole, we "spotted them seven points" thing, while true, shouldn't have bothered the team at all. In 2010 we spotted that same Raven team 21 points with less than a half to go and came back to tie them. That's why I maintain, if Schaub had been in, with the sucky game Flacco was having, we'd have beat them going away. yeah, Jacoby screwed the pooch, big time, but to put that whole loss on Jacoby ain't nothing but scapegoating.

Rey
05-05-2012, 09:12 PM
I totally agree with any blame he gets for trying to field a punt on the bounce with the Ravens' punt cover guys bearing down on him. No excuse for a punt return specialist to screw up in that fashion. None.

But to say that play changed the game from being "winnable" with less than five minutes had gone by in a sixty-minute game....? That's a bit much. If we let them take our 'nads five minutes into the game then we deserved to lose. And the whole, we "spotted them seven points" thing, while true, shouldn't have bothered the team at all. In 2010 we spotted that same Raven team 21 points with less than a half to go and came back to tie them. That's why I maintain, if Schaub had been in, with the sucky game Flacco was having, we'd have beat them going away. yeah, Jacoby screwed the pooch, big time, but to put that whole loss on Jacoby ain't nothing but scapegoating.


Did you miss the word 'very' in front of winnable?


Who said anything about blaming the whole loss on Jacoby anyways?

My point was that was a huge game changing play that killed any momentum we had going at the time.

I know you don't care for TJ Yates, but it's absolutely ridiculous to not give Jacoby the rightful blame he deserves for that play. Yates was a rookie, on the road in the play-offs playing against THAT Ravens defense.

Jacoby was a multi year vet and all he had to do is just get away from the damn ball.


It's like if your oldest child and your youngest child make a bad decision. Well who are you going to be more dissapointed with?

Jacoby's mistake was huge. period. It was a huge momentum shift in the game.

GP
05-05-2012, 11:25 PM
Did you miss the word 'very' in front of winnable?


Who said anything about blaming the whole loss on Jacoby anyways?

My point was that was a huge game changing play that killed any momentum we had going at the time.

I know you don't care for TJ Yates, but it's absolutely ridiculous to not give Jacoby the rightful blame he deserves for that play. Yates was a rookie, on the road in the play-offs playing against THAT Ravens defense.

Jacoby was a multi year vet and all he had to do is just get away from the damn ball.


It's like if your oldest child and your youngest child make a bad decision. Well who are you going to be more dissapointed with?

Jacoby's mistake was huge. period. It was a huge momentum shift in the game.

I tell my 11-yr-old daughter this all the time. She gets in trouble for doing something I have repeatedly, for the past 7 years or so, told her to NOT do...and all she can do is whine about how I am harder on her than I am on her 7-yr-old little sister.

"Well, darling...you're also four years older than your little sister. And quite frankly, she seems to get the message faster than you despite being four years younger. Are you sure you want to go with that line of defense in this trial?" Stops her dead in her tracks every time.

You cannot touch that ball THAT deep near the end zone in a playoff game...when it's bouncing in the air and gunners in your face. As soon as that happened, the air was let out of Texans nation. You knew it was going to be a tough road to travel the rest of the game after that happened. It was an uphill struggle for the Texans after that. Spotted them 7 points.

It's not like JJ Watt jumped into the air and freakishly snagged the Andy Dalton pass out of thin air...this was Jacoby Jones making THE worst decision of his entire career in the exact spot that he couldn't afford to make it. It would be the same as a four-year QB blindly tossing the ball behind his back up into the air and allowing the defense to catch it and score off it. A four-year QB knows better. He takes the sack.

For as many people being pissed off about Rosenfels trying to be the hero one day versus the Colts...there is a lack of consistency about the same type of situation with Jacoby Jones. Both guys tried to do too much with the odds stacked against them. E for effort but F for you-know-what.

ObsiWan
05-06-2012, 01:20 AM
Did you miss the word 'very' in front of winnable?
Speaking of missing things... did you miss my opening sentence? :)
I totally agree with any blame he gets for trying to field a punt on the bounce with the Ravens' punt cover guys bearing down on him. No excuse for a punt return specialist to screw up in that fashion. None.


Who said anything about blaming the whole loss on Jacoby anyways?

this sentence does...
It can be argued that the bone headed move by jones started a domino effect.

Up until that point the game looked very winnable.
Which infers that after that point no longer looked winnable. My issue with statements like that infer that the game was lost at that point. With less than five minutes gone off the clock. Seriously?? Folks really had that little faith in our team??

I wonder why...
Our "pourous" defense perhaps? Nope. In fact they're probably why the game looked "winnable". They were keeping the Ravens offense in check. They allowed only 3 pts in the final 46 minutes.
Lack of a decent running attack? Nope, Foster had that covered. First dude, ALL YEAR, to ring up a 100-yd game on that defense. He put our only TD on the board.
The only thing left is the ineffective play of Yates over those 46 minutes when our D shut down the Ravens.


I know you don't care for TJ Yates, but it's absolutely ridiculous to not give Jacoby the rightful blame he deserves for that play. Yates was a rookie, on the road in the play-offs playing against THAT Ravens defense.

I never said that. I just would rather have Schaub at the helm. One day Yates will be fine. But now he needs more "seasoning".

Jacoby was a multi year vet and all he had to do is just get away from the damn ball. Completely agree.

It's like if your oldest child and your youngest child make a bad decision. Well who are you going to be more dissapointed with?
The oldest....at first. Except that the oldest screwed up - and no doubt badly - only once. Meanwhile the youngest kept repeating the same damned mistake... over and over and over... So I am seriously disappointed with them both.

And, to be honest, I'm disappointed in me for not being a better teacher to them both.

TheMatrix31
05-06-2012, 04:46 AM
I'm sorry, Jacoby deserves every single ounce of blame he got and continues to get for his mistake in the Baltimore playoff game. Was it, 100%, the entire reason we lost? Of course not. But he absolutely deserves to be skewered for it, and I have and will continue to do so for a long time to come. He managed to do, by far, one of the STUPIDEST things I've ever seen a supposed "pro athlete" do in my life. It was a thoroughly killer and unaffordable mistake.

You guys can go on and on and on about how it was early in the game and this and that, but fact is that going into their house, owning that first drive, putting points on the board, getting a defensive stop, and a chance to get the ball back and put more points on the board against a team that generally struggles to put points up is huge.

Instead, he commits the inexcusable blunder, we gift them field position, they get 7, and immediately the momentum an inexperienced, hobbled team like ours needed is gone. Immediately, we gift them 7 points in a game where we KNEW points would be valuable. Waste. A ****ing WASTE.

Then Yates makes another stupid mistake, and there's 7 points right there too. After those two IDIOTIC plays, we held them to six FREAKIN' points the rest of the way. Abso-****ing-lutely DOMINATED the game. But our offense failed, as we knew it might considering the circumstances of our squad. Shame on our offense for not being able to take advantage of 3-and-out after 3-and-out.

So yes, gifting that 7 points off the Jacoby blunder (we need a harsher word what he did) is just....unfathomable. A rookie QB on the road in a playoff game is an obvious pick to do stupid **** and make horrendous throws, and Jacoby should have known this. A great, experienced defense is tough as hell to score on, especially when they're at home, on a "last-hurrah" run in the playoffs, and Jacoby should have known this. Jacoby should have known where he was on the field. Jacoby should have known not to try to pick the damn ball up. Jacoby should have known. But he didn't. And it ****ed us good.

He also deserves to be skewered for a bunch of other failures in his pro career. Everyone talks about the fumble, but how about the utter incompetent trash he was in the Oakland game last year? Wasn't he targeted something like 12 or 13 times and only caught ONE ball in that game? Killed us in that game. Absolutely killed us. And we could have totally used that damn win.

Freakin' pathetic. I'm glad he's gone. Utter trash.

/rant

majestrate
05-06-2012, 05:09 AM
hahahaha

:overreact:

You're still mad at that kid that pushed you off the swings when you were 4, aren't you?

TheMatrix31
05-06-2012, 05:45 AM
hahahaha

:overreact:

You're still mad at that kid that pushed you off the swings when you were 4, aren't you?

Ah yes, because I have a very strong opinion on something, that must mean JUST that.

Whatta joke. Only slightly less annoying than when you make a strong opinion about something and someone says "Damn why are you so riled up? Go get laid or something man!"

No, sorry. It is thoroughly acceptable to be colorful and fiery about something. Especially about occurrences in a game we could have and should have won. Don't you get it? We could have been in the freakin' Super Bowl this past year. New England would have been a pretty damn favorable matchup in the AFCC.

In this league, you strike while the iron is hot because the opportunity could completely fade away from you. So excuse me if I'm a little pissed at people on the team responsible for letting that opportunity slip away.

Enough of that nonsense.

majestrate
05-06-2012, 05:51 AM
Ah yes, because I have a very strong opinion on something, that must mean JUST that.

Whatta joke. Only slightly less annoying than when you make a strong opinion about something and someone says "Damn why are you so riled up? Go get laid or something man!"

No, sorry. It is thoroughly acceptable to be colorful and fiery about something.

Enough of that nonsense.

There's a difference between a strong opinion and over-reaction. I based my comment on this:

I'm sorry, Jacoby deserves every single ounce of blame he got and continues to get for his mistake in the Baltimore playoff game. Was it, 100%, the entire reason we lost? Of course not. But he absolutely deserves to be skewered for it, and I have and will continue to do so for a long time to come.

*shrug* whatever, I just think that you are going a bit overboard.

Grams
05-06-2012, 06:37 AM
I'm sorry, Jacoby deserves every single ounce of blame he got and continues to get for his mistake in the Baltimore playoff game. Was it, 100%, the entire reason we lost? Of course not. But he absolutely deserves to be skewered for it, and I have and will continue to do so for a long time to come. He managed to do, by far, one of the STUPIDEST things I've ever seen a supposed "pro athlete" do in my life. It was a thoroughly killer and unaffordable mistake.

You guys can go on and on and on about how it was early in the game and this and that, but fact is that going into their house, owning that first drive, putting points on the board, getting a defensive stop, and a chance to get the ball back and put more points on the board against a team that generally struggles to put points up is huge.

Instead, he commits the inexcusable blunder, we gift them field position, they get 7, and immediately the momentum an inexperienced, hobbled team like ours needed is gone. Immediately, we gift them 7 points in a game where we KNEW points would be valuable. Waste. A ****ing WASTE.

Then Yates makes another stupid mistake, and there's 7 points right there too. After those two IDIOTIC plays, we held them to six FREAKIN' points the rest of the way. Abso-****ing-lutely DOMINATED the game. But our offense failed, as we knew it might considering the circumstances of our squad. Shame on our offense for not being able to take advantage of 3-and-out after 3-and-out.

So yes, gifting that 7 points off the Jacoby blunder (we need a harsher word what he did) is just....unfathomable. A rookie QB on the road in a playoff game is an obvious pick to do stupid **** and make horrendous throws, and Jacoby should have known this. A great, experienced defense is tough as hell to score on, especially when they're at home, on a "last-hurrah" run in the playoffs, and Jacoby should have known this. Jacoby should have known where he was on the field. Jacoby should have known not to try to pick the damn ball up. Jacoby should have known. But he didn't. And it ****ed us good.

He also deserves to be skewered for a bunch of other failures in his pro career. Everyone talks about the fumble, but how about the utter incompetent trash he was in the Oakland game last year? Wasn't he targeted something like 12 or 13 times and only caught ONE ball in that game? Killed us in that game. Absolutely killed us. And we could have totally used that damn win.

Freakin' pathetic. I'm glad he's gone. Utter trash.

/rant

I agree!

Jacoby's good plays while he was her can be counted on 1 hand. While his boneheaded plays are several handfuls.

The game totally changed with that fumble.

GuerillaBlack
05-06-2012, 08:38 AM
I agree!

Jacoby's good plays while he was her can be counted on 1 hand. While his boneheaded plays are several handfuls.

The game totally changed with that fumble.

You know it was all in the player's minds. They were glaring at Jacoby. Like about to attack. Meanwhile, Jacoby sits on the bench with his neck sticking out. And the thing is, Jacoby was so nervous that he almost fumbled the next punt and Andre had to tell him to calm down.

GNTLEWOLF
05-06-2012, 08:44 AM
Ah yes, because I have a very strong opinion on something, that must mean JUST that.

Whatta joke. Only slightly less annoying than when you make a strong opinion about something and someone says "Damn why are you so riled up? Go get laid or something man!"

No, sorry. It is thoroughly acceptable to be colorful and fiery about something. Especially about occurrences in a game we could have and should have won. Don't you get it? We could have been in the freakin' Super Bowl this past year. New England would have been a pretty damn favorable matchup in the AFCC.

In this league, you strike while the iron is hot because the opportunity could completely fade away from you. So excuse me if I'm a little pissed at people on the team responsible for letting that opportunity slip away.

Enough of that nonsense.

Bravo!!! One of the things I think we miss in our world today is people who have strong feelings and are willing to take a stand on them. Rep

ObsiWan
05-06-2012, 10:21 AM
Bravo!!! One of the things I think we miss in our world today is people who have strong feelings and are willing to take a stand on them. Rep

Maybe...

the problem with going into full-blown, transmit rant mode is that you stop listening.
when you stop listening you stop learning. And that cannot be a good thing.

False Start
05-06-2012, 11:29 AM
Wow! This thread has gotten hectic.

Jacoby is like the WR version of HWSNBM...N... or whatever.

majestrate
05-06-2012, 11:37 AM
Bravo!!! One of the things I think we miss in our world today is people who have strong feelings and are willing to take a stand on them. Rep
rotfl

GP
05-06-2012, 11:40 AM
Wouldn't it be awesome if a head coach, after a player makes a really BAD play like Jacoby did, has the player go into the locker room (during the game) and put on a Ravens uniform and come sit on our bench in Ravens gear.

As if to say "You are the Ravens' most valuable player. Thanks for all you do...for them."

I think THAT would be the harshest thing you could ever do to a football player, to make them wear the opposing team's colors as a stark visual of what he just did on the field. LOL.

I used to defend Jacoby so much, but the entire 2011 season was like that final David Carr season...you just have undeniable proof that the project is over.

My first ever Texans game was last year's Oakland game. We needed Jacoby to stand up and deliver a GOOD performance. He didn't have to be all-world, he just needed to catch passes and move the chains. But he didn't. His routes were awful, his hands were stone, it was singularly the most underwhelming feeling I have had as a Texans fans...and there's been a lot of 'em to choose from.

ATXtexanfan
05-06-2012, 11:42 AM
Wow! This thread has gotten hectic.

Jacoby is like the WR version of HWSNBM...N... or whatever.

Lol right. Last one to post wins 2.0.

steelbtexan
05-06-2012, 03:05 PM
I don't think Jacoby was ever the same player after he got pancaked (seperated shoulder) sideline after long return a few years ago. He was on a nice upwards trendline, then missed time & played w/fear that point on, still Texans resigned him to that nice fat contract last offseason.

^^^^
This

Along with alocohol problems are what turned Jacoby from a young WR with promise into an underachieving veteran.

Premier
05-06-2012, 03:40 PM
when is this thread going to be moved to the NFL section...???

thunderkyss
05-06-2012, 05:19 PM
It can be argued that the bone headed move by jones started a domino effect.

Up until that point the game looked very winnable.

You are a vet. An established player in the league. You have a rookie at qb and you go and do that?

Sorry, but that was a huge momentum swing in the game that we never quite recovered from. He pretty much took away an offensive possession and spotted them 7 points.

He deserves all the blame he gets for that particular play.

Sorry, that was 5 minutes into the first quarter. That play was over & done before either team settled into "their game" If our team can't overcome a bad play in the first 5 minutes of a game, they don't need to be in the play-offs.

I hear what you're saying about momentum & everything, but the truth of the matter is that games are won & loss in the 4th qtr, not the first, unless it's a blow-out, which that game was not. & no one in their right mind expected us to go up to Baltimore & blow the Ravens out @ M&T Bank where they rarely lost.

To get out with a win was the goal & we had plenty of opportunity to do that in the 4th in spite of Jacoby's muff.

I sport a Jacoby avatar (soon to be changed), I liked the kid, & would have preferred he stayed on the team.

But this goofyness, about blaming Jacoby for that loss is the same goffyness that has our fans thinking we've got the inside track to the Super Bowl.

Rey
05-06-2012, 05:47 PM
But this goofyness, about blaming Jacoby for that loss is the same goffyness that has our fans thinking we've got the inside track to the Super Bowl.

Who blamed jacoby for the loss?

I haven't seen that.

Jacoby was a major factor in the loss. Period. His mistake was huge.

And I know you like jacoby, but to basically excuse away his mistake by saying games are won and lost I'm the 4th quarter is ridiculous.

Like what happens 5 mins into the game doesn't matter. Yeah right. That was a huge game changing play and it changed the complexity of the game.

Instead of a team that was playing with a lead we became a team playing catch up from that point on.

Instead of being a team that was composed and measured we became a team with chinks in the armor that was mistake prone and rattled.

No one is saying that you can't overcome earlier mistakes. The point is that a multi year vet made a crappy, terrible, awful decision that directly led to 7 points, a shift in momentum and us playing from behind.

I will not listen to anyone that says that wasn't a huge factor (maybe THE biggest factor) in our loss. When you play team sports you feed off of everything that goes on around you. Jacoby got their crowd into it, probably rattled our guys a little at the time and got the Baltimore players hyped up.

And we can point to Yates int's but Tom Brady threw 3 picks AT HOME the next week if my memory is correct. And one of Yates int's was early (so I guess it's like he didn't really throw one to you....I kid), one was late in the game on a third and long and the last one was when we were trying to force the ball down field.

Yates didn't have a good game by any means. But I didn't expect him to. I expected jacoby to be at a point in his career where he wasn't making boneheaded decisions like that.

gg no re
05-06-2012, 11:27 PM
does this need a separate thread?

jacoby meets with the r....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/06/ravens-meet-with-jacoby-jones/

The Pencil Neck
05-06-2012, 11:47 PM
does this need a separate thread?

jacoby meets with the r....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/06/ravens-meet-with-jacoby-jones/

Well, he was their MVP in their game against us. It's the least they could do.



:jk:

Allstar
05-07-2012, 12:26 AM
Ravens met with him to thank him I bet.

TheMatrix31
05-07-2012, 05:20 AM
They couldn't exactly MAIL him his money bonus. That would be conspicuous. And it would leave a trail.

TheMatrix31
05-07-2012, 05:24 AM
Sorry, that was 5 minutes into the first quarter. That play was over & done before either team settled into "their game" If our team can't overcome a bad play in the first 5 minutes of a game, they don't need to be in the play-offs.

I hear what you're saying about momentum & everything, but the truth of the matter is that games are won & loss in the 4th qtr, not the first, unless it's a blow-out, which that game was not. & no one in their right mind expected us to go up to Baltimore & blow the Ravens out @ M&T Bank where they rarely lost.

To get out with a win was the goal & we had plenty of opportunity to do that in the 4th in spite of Jacoby's muff.

I sport a Jacoby avatar (soon to be changed), I liked the kid, & would have preferred he stayed on the team.

But this goofyness, about blaming Jacoby for that loss is the same goffyness that has our fans thinking we've got the inside track to the Super Bowl.

Actually, games are won and lost through plays and incidents that can happen at any point during any game. So, like the stupidity that people spout that, for example, a bad call in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd quarter cant affect the outcome of a game, equally stupid is the notion that a bad play in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd quarter, cant affect the outcome of a game.

Like it or not, things that are important happen. And everything has consequence. Thinking that only the 4th quarter matters is utopian, idealistic fallacy.

Big Lou
05-07-2012, 09:10 AM
Ravens met with him to thank him I bet.

They are presenting him with a key to the city!!!!

Goldensilence
05-07-2012, 09:23 AM
Wouldn't it be awesome if a head coach, after a player makes a really BAD play like Jacoby did, has the player go into the locker room (during the game) and put on a Ravens uniform and come sit on our bench in Ravens gear.

As if to say "You are the Ravens' most valuable player. Thanks for all you do...for them."

I think THAT would be the harshest thing you could ever do to a football player, to make them wear the opposing team's colors as a stark visual of what he just did on the field. LOL.

I used to defend Jacoby so much, but the entire 2011 season was like that final David Carr season...you just have undeniable proof that the project is over.

My first ever Texans game was last year's Oakland game. We needed Jacoby to stand up and deliver a GOOD performance. He didn't have to be all-world, he just needed to catch passes and move the chains. But he didn't. His routes were awful, his hands were stone, it was singularly the most underwhelming feeling I have had as a Texans fans...and there's been a lot of 'em to choose from.

To me the bolded part says everything. Fans have known for awhile Jacoby's just was, for one reason or another, make that final turn. To this this shows the danger of a coach having "his guys" at any cost. I really hope this is the last time we see this fromGary and can move forward with e understanding of it has to be measured at some point by production on the field.

I do have to agree with Beerlover though, it does seem like he was never the same player after that shoulders injury after the punt return.

thunderkyss
05-08-2012, 08:21 AM
Actually, games are won and lost through plays and incidents that can happen at any point during any game. So, like the stupidity that people spout that, for example, a bad call in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd quarter cant affect the outcome of a game, equally stupid is the notion that a bad play in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd quarter, cant affect the outcome of a game.

Like it or not, things that are important happen. And everything has consequence. Thinking that only the 4th quarter matters is utopian, idealistic fallacy.

eh.... things happen throughout the game that affect the outcome. Granted.

But it's just like life. So what if you screwed up & did not apply yourself through high-school. If you were a tweaker or a junkie doesn't determine who you will be tomorrow. Let's call those years the first quarter. Second quarter, you get your stuff together get a bachelors degree, then go on through law school. 4th quarter you can have a nice career & retire comfortably.

But if you're hung up about mistakes you made in high school, instead of focusing on the next play you can blame that 1st quarter performance all you want. It's still what you did in the 4th qtr that sealed your faith.

Sure, sometimes you can dig yourself a hole that is too big to climb out of in the time you've got...... 60 minutes in the case of a football game. But that is not what happened in the first 5 minutes of the Baltimore game.

thunderkyss
05-08-2012, 08:34 AM
To me the bolded part says everything. Fans have known for awhile Jacoby's just was, for one reason or another, make that final turn. To this this shows the danger of a coach having "his guys" at any cost. I really hope this is the last time we see this fromGary and can move forward with e understanding of it has to be measured at some point by production on the field.

I do have to agree with Beerlover though, it does seem like he was never the same player after that shoulders injury after the punt return.

Really?

For the last two years, we used 4 of our first 5 draft picks on defense for obvious reasons, 3 out of 5 the year before. Since Jacoby has been here we've brought in receivers from Andre Davis to Bryant Johnson. Last year we signed Juaquin Igleshia, Jeff Mahel, & LeStar Jean....... I think they've been trying to replace Jacoby, or at least find a #2 WR from the beginning. However, the defense has been the bigger issue & they've been addressing that accordingly.

Remember, we signed, cut, then re-signed David Anderson because or our issues at WR.

majestrate
05-08-2012, 02:03 PM
Moss signed for league minimum.

Just saying

:fingergun:

Naiirb
05-08-2012, 05:51 PM
Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter
Former Texans WR Jacoby Jones reached agreement with the Ravens on a two-year, $7 million deal, per league source.

They probably signed him as a thank you gift for spotting theme 7 early points in the playoffs.

Thorn
05-08-2012, 05:59 PM
Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter
Former Texans WR Jacoby Jones reached agreement with the Ravens on a two-year, $7 million deal, per league source.

They probably signed him as a thank you gift for spotting theme 7 early points in the playoffs.

This amazes me. The Ravens more than anybody should know what JJ is capable of. Wow.

The Pencil Neck
05-08-2012, 06:04 PM
Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter
Former Texans WR Jacoby Jones reached agreement with the Ravens on a two-year, $7 million deal, per league source.

They probably signed him as a thank you gift for spotting theme 7 early points in the playoffs.

Wow.

I don't...

Wow.

This explains a lot.

Thorn
05-08-2012, 06:06 PM
It almost makes you want to go to a Ravens site to see what they think about this.

False Start
05-08-2012, 06:12 PM
This smilie is very fitting for this news. :corrosion:

Kimmy
05-08-2012, 06:19 PM
Guess this what you call coming full circle

"One man's trash is another man's treasure"

Playoffs
05-08-2012, 06:20 PM
I kinda thought he'd fit the Ravens. I suspect he'll make a place for himself there.

Seeya in the playoffs, Jacoby!

macho grande
05-08-2012, 07:11 PM
It almost makes you want to go to a Ravens site to see what they think about this.

I did. 70/30 hate it.

thunderkyss
05-08-2012, 07:37 PM
Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter
Former Texans WR Jacoby Jones reached agreement with the Ravens on a two-year, $7 million deal, per league source.

They probably signed him as a thank you gift for spotting theme 7 early points in the playoffs.

Didn't we already have 3 points before that?

This amazes me. The Ravens more than anybody should know what JJ is capable of. Wow.

I guarantee you he won't be returning punts for them.

TexansBull
05-08-2012, 08:10 PM
Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter
Former Texans WR Jacoby Jones reached agreement with the Ravens on a two-year, $7 million deal, per league source.

They probably signed him as a thank you gift for spotting theme 7 early points in the playoffs.

He was in it for the Ravens from the beginning. I call shannigans. So does these guys:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJTIulLF5vbQzQOkMtZsSUcCfpCDKFM j66lRqiHsaQPK98ik50

drs23
05-08-2012, 08:12 PM
Wow.

I don't...

Wow.

This explains a lot.

All I can add is...Wow!, just Geeze. What the? What are they...?

AND he got a RAISE?

TheMatrix31
05-08-2012, 08:19 PM
lol, douche

Thorn
05-08-2012, 08:25 PM
I did. 70/30 hate it.

It's that 30 I worry about. :lol:

Premier
05-08-2012, 08:29 PM
will you just let it go..really its time.. move this thread to the NFL section..

Say Watt
05-08-2012, 09:10 PM
Holy crap TK. I'm amazed at how deep your love for Jacoby runs.

The Ravens game was a defensive, smash mouth football game. The way you win those games is by controlling the clock, building a small lead, and maintain that lead. We had already scored when Jacoby made the single biggest screw up in Texans history. We had the chance to get the ball back, keep momentum on our side, and march down and score again. If we had scored on that drive, I'd give us about a 75% chance of winning that game.

You really don't seem to understand how you beat a defensive team like the Ravens. You simply won't make big plays against them or run up the score. In a game like that, every single possession counts and turning over the ball will spell your doom. Instead the Ravens got the ball and scored a TD thus turning the game from being in our favor to being in their favor.

Wake up and stop the man love for Jacoby Jones. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Texan_Bill
05-08-2012, 09:19 PM
will you just let it go..really its time.. move this thread to the NFL section..

Absolutely NOT!!! Jacoby's boneheaded plays (the Baltimore muff, errrr two muffs not withstanding) are akin to the ref's boneheaded calls in Pittsburgh (circa 1979 ((Oldtimers correct me on the year)))...

They both cost this city and our team a win.... The only difference is that the refs in Pittsburgh bone-headed call is that the Oilers were behind to begin with. Jacoby's jackassery turned a 3-0 lead (this after the Texans "D" forced a three and out on Baltimore's first possesion of the game) to a 7-3 Ravens lead.... This when you're starting a rooking QB where you need to play with a lead and not try to play from behind!!!

Thanks Jacoby!! Good riddance to a guy that had 5 or 6 years to "get it" and never did... :rolleyes:

BUT good luck!!! :fingergun:

pirbroke
05-08-2012, 09:46 PM
Good, I feel a lot better about facing the Ravens next year.

Texan_Bill
05-08-2012, 10:08 PM
Good, I feel a lot better about facing the Ravens next year.

:lol: Right!!

EllisUnit
05-08-2012, 10:08 PM
eh.... things happen throughout the game that affect the outcome. Granted.

But it's just like life. So what if you screwed up & did not apply yourself through high-school. If you were a tweaker or a junkie doesn't determine who you will be tomorrow. Let's call those years the first quarter. Second quarter, you get your stuff together get a bachelors degree, then go on through law school. 4th quarter you can have a nice career & retire comfortably.

But if you're hung up about mistakes you made in high school, instead of focusing on the next play you can blame that 1st quarter performance all you want. It's still what you did in the 4th qtr that sealed your faith.

Sure, sometimes you can dig yourself a hole that is too big to climb out of in the time you've got...... 60 minutes in the case of a football game. But that is not what happened in the first 5 minutes of the Baltimore game.

from my knoweldge life is a lot longer than 60 minutes, and u dont have a 53 man roster helping determine how ur life will play out. Terrible example

We scored (3) stopped them and then got the ball back, he made a bone headed play the easily get a score. With Schaub in the game would of still been managable no doubt, but the circumstances were different. We had a rookie playing an away play-off game, against one of the best defenses.

A war is not lost due to one man, unless that one man sets off an atomic bomb while surrounded by his own men.

Dutchrudder
05-08-2012, 10:52 PM
eh.... things happen throughout the game that affect the outcome. Granted.

But it's just like life. So what if you screwed up & did not apply yourself through high-school. If you were a tweaker or a junkie doesn't determine who you will be tomorrow. Let's call those years the first quarter. Second quarter, you get your stuff together get a bachelors degree, then go on through law school. 4th quarter you can have a nice career & retire comfortably.

But if you're hung up about mistakes you made in high school, instead of focusing on the next play you can blame that 1st quarter performance all you want. It's still what you did in the 4th qtr that sealed your faith.

Sure, sometimes you can dig yourself a hole that is too big to climb out of in the time you've got...... 60 minutes in the case of a football game. But that is not what happened in the first 5 minutes of the Baltimore game.

Lemme put this in perspective for you, Jacoby spotted the Ravens 75 yards on that muffed punt and put them on the 2 yard line, which led to one of two TDs they scored that day. The Ravens offense only totaled 227 yards on the day.

The Ravens offense had 4 offensive drives the entire game that amounted to more than 10 yards. The longest drive of the day for the Ravens was 59 yards, which ended in a turnover on downs at the goalline.

The Ravens offense had EIGHT 3 and outs in only 13 possessions.

Ray Rice, one of the best RBs in the game averaged 4.7 YPC in the regular season. In that game he had 2.9 YPC.

They couldn't do much at all on offense. The Texans D was shutting them down, and had they not been given 7 points at the beginning of the game, we would have had the lead by 3 in the 4th (or possibly tied) and used Foster to run out the clock. Instead, Yates was trying to force the ball to AJ, which lead to two late INTs. Jacoby's mistake completely changed our offense in the 4th, and forced Yates to play from behind, which lead to more mistakes. There is no question the game is completely different if he lets that ball go. There was about a 60% chance that the following Ravens possession would have resulted in a 3 and out instead of a TD.

Yaky
05-08-2012, 11:18 PM
They couldn't do much at all on offense. The Texans D was shutting them down, and had they not been given 7 points at the beginning of the game, we would have had the lead by 3 in the 4th (or possibly tied) and used Foster to run out the clock. Instead, Yates was trying to force the ball to AJ, which lead to two late INTs. Jacoby's mistake completely changed our offense in the 4th, and forced Yates to play from behind, which lead to more mistakes. There is no question the game is completely different if he lets that ball go. There was about a 60% chance that the following Ravens possession would have resulted in a 3 and out instead of a TD.

The Ravens needed 3 downs to score from the 2yard line LOL. Texans D was really great, Jacoby's boneheaded play completely changed the momentum around.

majestrate
05-08-2012, 11:32 PM
Holy crap TK. I'm amazed at how deep your love for Jacoby runs.

The Ravens game was a defensive, smash mouth football game. The way you win those games is by controlling the clock, building a small lead, and maintain that lead. We had already scored when Jacoby made the single biggest screw up in Texans history. We had the chance to get the ball back, keep momentum on our side, and march down and score again. If we had scored on that drive, I'd give us about a 75% chance of winning that game.

You really don't seem to understand how you beat a defensive team like the Ravens. You simply won't make big plays against them or run up the score. In a game like that, every single possession counts and turning over the ball will spell your doom. Instead the Ravens got the ball and scored a TD thus turning the game from being in our favor to being in their favor.

Wake up and stop the man love for Jacoby Jones. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
I think hiring Frank Bush as DC is a much bigger mistake than what JacJo made that day. And I'm sure there were many more mistakes that were made that had a bigger impact than costing us a single playoff game.

It's not man love for JacJo, it's simply accepting that our loss that day wasn't because of just one man. The problem is that it seems most of you refuse to accept that and want to pin a majority of the blame on JacJo.

They couldn't do much at all on offense. The Texans D was shutting them down, and had they not been given 7 points at the beginning of the game, I, like most of everyone else here, am making the assumption that we would have had the lead by 3 in the 4th (or possibly tied) and used Foster to run out the clock.
FTFY

Dutchrudder
05-08-2012, 11:52 PM
I think hiring Frank Bush as DC is a much bigger mistake than what JacJo made that day. And I'm sure there were many more mistakes that were made that had a bigger impact than costing us a single playoff game.

It's not man love for JacJo, it's simply accepting that our loss that day wasn't because of just one man. The problem is that it seems most of you refuse to accept that and want to pin a majority of the blame on JacJo.


FTFY

Child please. They won by 7, Jacoby gave them 7. It's really simple math, unless you want to blame the defense for giving up a TD from the 2. We needed 4+ points in the 4th, which is why Yates kept throwing so much. If we were just going for a FG to tie or take the lead, the entire offense would have played differently. No way do those last two INTs happen if we are down by 3 or less. It's a whole different ball game and it takes a lot of pressure off Yates.

majestrate
05-09-2012, 12:06 AM
Oh, I see. So we were definitely going to score, no matter what. There's no chance that anything else could've happened. I beat A, A beat B, B beat C, thus I can beat B and C. Flawed logic.

Rey
05-09-2012, 12:24 AM
Oh, I see. So we were definitely going to score, no matter what. There's no chance that anything else could've happened. I beat A, A beat B, B beat C, thus I can beat B and C. Flawed logic.

Huh? I seriously haven't seen anyone say that.

But you kind of eliminate the possibility that we score when you turn the ball over and hand them 7 points.

Also, you change the dynamics of the game. Whether or not we actually go down and score is not relevant. Hell a three and out is better than a stupid turn over on right there.

majestrate
05-09-2012, 12:32 AM
You haven't seen anyone say "That one mistake by Jacoby cost us the game"? You've said it. You're saying it now.

None of us knows what would've happened if that mistake hadn't happened. And I still stand by the fact that if we couldn't recover from that mistake, we weren't a SB worthy team. Period.

If you want to extrapolate like that, then why don't you simply blame our regular season play. If we had won out in the regular season, we'd have held the number 1 seed, thus might not have faced Baltimore (or at least not have played them on the road), would've been playing at home, and might've had a better chance at winning the conference.

No, no one wants to do any of that because of the animosity built up towards JacJo, so the only thing most of you do is blame him for our post-season ending sooner than we wanted.

Rey
05-09-2012, 12:44 AM
You haven't seen anyone say "That one mistake by Jacoby cost us the game"? You've said it. You're saying it now.

None of us knows what would've happened if that mistake hadn't happened. And I still stand by the fact that if we couldn't recover from that mistake, we weren't a SB worthy team. Period.

If you want to extrapolate like that, then why don't you simply blame our regular season play. If we had won out in the regular season, we'd have held the number 1 seed, thus might not have faced Baltimore (or at least not have played them on the road), would've been playing at home, and might've had a better chance at winning the conference.

No, no one wants to do any of that because of the animosity built up towards JacJo, so the only thing most of you do is blame him for our post-season ending sooner than we wanted.


You take away a possession, spot a team seven points and change the games momentum. That's a pretty colossal f'up.

The fact that we didn't win doesn't change the magnitude of the mistake he made. Even if we had come back and won that's still a huge inexcusable mistake. What's your point?

Are you trying to say that it wasn't that big of a deal what he did?

We should always be able to overcome and win games on the road where we are making mistakes like that?

Seriously, what are y'all trying to say?

And I never said it's jacoby's fault we lost. What I have said is that he played a significant role in the loss. The effects of his dumb assery were not just isolated to that moment. The affects lingered.

Sure we could have won. We could have overcome. Ok. So what. That says absolutely nothing about what an awful play that was.

It's almost like if I shoot someone in the foot, they trip and hit their head and die.

No the shot to the foot isn't the cause of death, but had I not done that you may not have tripped and hit your head and died. Sure I could have just shot you and you could have walked a different way and went to the hospital. Sure you could have lived.

But none of that changes the fact that I shot you in the damn foot.

Forget the fact that you could have tripped anyways. Me shooting you in the foot surely didn't make it less likely. Me shooting you in the foot played a huge role in you tripping and hitting your head.

majestrate
05-09-2012, 01:11 AM
You've had that argument with ObsiWan already. You seem to be inferring that his mistake was the cause of the loss.

What I'm reading from you is "I'm not saying his mistake was the reason we lost, but if he hadn't made the mistake, the tempo of the game wouldn't have been established*, and we would've won.".

* = I'm correcting "altering the momentum" to "setting the tone" because while a nuance, it's two different things; continue with the impression that the mistake on the PR was a game changer, but it wasn't, it was too early in the game for the momentum of the game to have been set

============

I'm saying the same thing I've been saying over the past few days/week. Yes, JacJo screwed up, but he is being unfairly scapegoated for that loss. Did his play cause detriment to our goal, yes. Was it what ultimately led to our loss? No, it most certainly was not, and that is why he doesn't deserve the all the blame for that loss. Many mistakes were made that day and they all contributed to the loss. And no one mistake that was made, which may have altered the outcome of the game, is any worse than the other.

Rey
05-09-2012, 06:51 AM
You've had that argument with ObsiWan already. You seem to be inferring that his mistake was the cause of the loss.

What I'm reading from you is "I'm not saying his mistake was the reason we lost, but if he hadn't made the mistake, the tempo of the game wouldn't have been established*, and we would've won.".

* = I'm correcting "altering the momentum" to "setting the tone" because while a nuance, it's two different things; continue with the impression that the mistake on the PR was a game changer, but it wasn't, it was too early in the game for the momentum of the game to have been set

============

I'm saying the same thing I've been saying over the past few days/week. Yes, JacJo screwed up, but he is being unfairly scapegoated for that loss. Did his play cause detriment to our goal, yes. Was it what ultimately led to our loss? No, it most certainly was not, and that is why he doesn't deserve the all the blame for that loss. Many mistakes were made that day and they all contributed to the loss. And no one mistake that was made, which may have altered the outcome of the game, is any worse than the other.


I think you are inferring that jacoby's mistake really didn't matter and had little bearing on the loss.

Keep on believing that I guess.

thunderkyss
05-09-2012, 08:26 AM
Absolutely NOT!!! Jacoby's boneheaded play...


They both cost this city and our team a win....

Thanks Bill, I thought it was a figment of my imagination that some of our fans are blaming Jj for that loss.

Dutchrudder
05-09-2012, 08:47 AM
You've had that argument with ObsiWan already. You seem to be inferring that his mistake was the cause of the loss.

What I'm reading from you is "I'm not saying his mistake was the reason we lost, but if he hadn't made the mistake, the tempo of the game wouldn't have been established*, and we would've won.".

* = I'm correcting "altering the momentum" to "setting the tone" because while a nuance, it's two different things; continue with the impression that the mistake on the PR was a game changer, but it wasn't, it was too early in the game for the momentum of the game to have been set

============

I'm saying the same thing I've been saying over the past few days/week. Yes, JacJo screwed up, but he is being unfairly scapegoated for that loss. Did his play cause detriment to our goal, yes. Was it what ultimately led to our loss? No, it most certainly was not, and that is why he doesn't deserve the all the blame for that loss. Many mistakes were made that day and they all contributed to the loss. And no one mistake that was made, which may have altered the outcome of the game, is any worse than the other.

That INT that led to a Ravens 3 and out was just as bad as the turnover that gave the Ravens 7 points!!!

lol...

Seńor Stan
05-09-2012, 09:18 AM
You've had that argument with ObsiWan already. You seem to be inferring that his mistake was the cause of the loss.

What I'm reading from you is "I'm not saying his mistake was the reason we lost, but if he hadn't made the mistake, the tempo of the game wouldn't have been established*, and we would've won.".

* = I'm correcting "altering the momentum" to "setting the tone" because while a nuance, it's two different things; continue with the impression that the mistake on the PR was a game changer, but it wasn't, it was too early in the game for the momentum of the game to have been set

============

I'm saying the same thing I've been saying over the past few days/week. Yes, JacJo screwed up, but he is being unfairly scapegoated for that loss. Did his play cause detriment to our goal, yes. Was it what ultimately led to our loss? No, it most certainly was not, and that is why he doesn't deserve the all the blame for that loss. Many mistakes were made that day and they all contributed to the loss. And no one mistake that was made, which may have altered the outcome of the game, is any worse than the other.

The problem with the play was the knuckle-headedness off it. If he had caught the ball on the fly, started to head north/south and had the ball knocked loose then I could kind of see your point. A lot of folks would still be coming down on Jacoby, but it be more of a "football play."

Jacoby's mistake was a grade "A" Leon Lett-esque knuckle head move that proved he STILL didn't understand how football us supposed to be played.

I am OK with a rookie QB giving up 3 INTs. I am less ok with missed assignments and such, but that stuff happens. I am not OK with pulling a move that an 8 year would have the sense not to do in a game.

Trail.Blazr
05-09-2012, 09:23 AM
And no one mistake that was made, which may have altered the outcome of the game, is any worse than the other.

Not true. Coach speak. A mistake that results in an easy 7 for the opponent is MUCH worse than a mistake than one that results in an opponent's 3 and out. You cannot spot a team 7 easy points in a playoff game at your opponents house, against a stingy defense, with a rookie QB and expect good things to come from it. Was Jacoby's mistake huge? yes. Was it the only mistake he made? no. Was it the only mistake made by any texan? no. But it ranked up there as the most costly and is justifiably worthy of criticism.

Now if Jacoby didn't already have a "TERRIBLE" reputation for muffing returns, to say Jacoby is being unfairly scapegoated would have enough merit to warrant consideration of anyone who cares to see Jacoby given more opportunities to learn and improve. But the reality is, he DOES have a reputation and he HAS been given more than enough opportunities to right it. So Fair or Un-Fair, ...criticism is coming. It's the nature of the beast. After so many times, even the best fans are justified to be tired of seeing it again and again. Apparently, the front office is tired of seeing it. God bless them.. it took while. If the front office has had enough, I can't blame some fans for being relieved the Jacoby era come to an end. I am one of those who desperately wanted Jacoby to become a rags-to-riches type of phenom from Lane College, but his brilliance was somehow always anchored by his blunders and personally I felt his stay was a couple of seasons too long.

Again, I liked Jacoby. Being in NC, the local radio yesterday talked of Jacoby's visit to the Panthers for 30 seconds, saying what a great return threat he is and why not bring him in? Jacoby is a two headed beast. From a Panther perspective, where you SUCK at Special Teams, Jacoby is very alluring. For fact, that's what we will all miss about him.

steelbtexan
05-09-2012, 09:48 AM
Jacoby may not have lost the game but he was a big contributor to the cause. The sad part is everybody suspected Jacoby would wilt under the bright lights. I mean even TK will have to admit Jacoby didn't exactly step up after AJ went down.

When Jacoby went down the 3rd game of his rookie yr, it was essentially the end of his days as a consisent playmaker as a WR. One of Garys faults is that he hangs on to his guys to long. IMHO

welsh texan
05-09-2012, 10:08 AM
People focus so much on Jacoby muffing that punt but we had a crocked AJ, a 1 handed OD, a badly nicked up Casey, and KW out there as other receiving threats, Jacoby Jones never even got himself a target. Not even once did the QB think it was an option to throw the ball at Jacoby Jones. Paid as a #2 WR, and doesn't even get targeted.

He should never have been given that contract last year, I'm not sure what the Ravens are thinking giving him a similar deal.

Glad he's gone, and always wish former players the best, there was a time when seeing Jacoby return a punt or wide open downfield was exciting and you though he could take it to the house any time, but that was years ago now. He's only ever regressed.

GP
05-09-2012, 12:39 PM
You've had that argument with ObsiWan already. You seem to be inferring that his mistake was the cause of the loss.

What I'm reading from you is "I'm not saying his mistake was the reason we lost, but if he hadn't made the mistake, the tempo of the game wouldn't have been established*, and we would've won.".

* = I'm correcting "altering the momentum" to "setting the tone" because while a nuance, it's two different things; continue with the impression that the mistake on the PR was a game changer, but it wasn't, it was too early in the game for the momentum of the game to have been set

============

I'm saying the same thing I've been saying over the past few days/week. Yes, JacJo screwed up, but he is being unfairly scapegoated for that loss. Did his play cause detriment to our goal, yes. Was it what ultimately led to our loss? No, it most certainly was not, and that is why he doesn't deserve the all the blame for that loss. Many mistakes were made that day and they all contributed to the loss. And no one mistake that was made, which may have altered the outcome of the game, is any worse than the other.

So a guy shanks a field goal and a team loses the game because of it...I mean, we could rationalize that the offense should have scored a TD instead of relying on the kicker to win the game.

The problem to me, is that people want to say the game of football is so intricate and complex that no single play is responsible for the outcome. Yes, there are many plays in a game that are important. However, there CAN be a key play that provides a win or loss potential.

Jacoby's bad decision, and its outcome, was the key play of that game that determined the outcome. Without that play, the whole makeup of the game changes. We might end up winning the thing going away, actually. Instead, it gave them the ball at the 2. LOL. THE TWO. If that's not a key play, then I don't know what is.

It doesn't matter if the key play comes at the end or at the beginning or somewhere in the middle. If it's something that helps the opponent while also hurting our team at the same time...that's not just a "good play" by one team, such as the Ravens making a long pass completion to move the chains on 3rd and long...no, it's a swing in both directions.

When turnovers create instant points...folks, THAT is a key play that can determine games. I watched the highlights of the 2011 Maryland-Miami game that Davin Meggett played in, and the Terps won it 32-24. Miami had TWO turnovers that led to instant points for the Terps. Without those two turnovers that caused instant points, Maryland ends up losing the game and not winning it. Fact: That day, the Maryland offense wasn't going to win the game...but the Maryland TEAM was handed the win by two disastrous turnovers by Miami that the Terps turned into 14 instant points.

Jacoby impacted the game by not only turning the ball over, but by also giving the Ravens an easy TD opportunity from the 2-yard-line that affected the entire makeup of the game from that play onward. If he turns that ball over near mid-field instead of near the end zone, our defense has a chance to limit them to a FG at the worst. Instead, Jacoby lost himself in the moment and tried to do more than what he should do in that position with the magnitude of the game we were in.

It has shades of Rosencopter, yet the Rosencopter play was not nearly as bad, IMO, because it was the end of the game and Sage was trying to get the first down and seal the win with that first down play. Jacoby botched the punt at the beginning of the game when he had no earthly reason to risk something like that at THAT point in the game.

ckhouston
05-09-2012, 12:55 PM
Any way to move this thread now that he isn't a Texan anymore? Get tired of seeing that name.

Marcus
05-09-2012, 12:58 PM
So a guy shanks a field goal and a team loses the game because of it...I mean, we could rationalize that the offense should have scored a TD instead of relying on the kicker to win the game.

The problem to me, is that people want to say the game of football is so intricate and complex that no single play is responsible for the outcome. Yes, there are many plays in a game that are important. However, there CAN be a key play that provides a win or loss potential.

Jacoby's bad decision, and its outcome, was the key play of that game that determined the outcome. Without that play, the whole makeup of the game changes. We might end up winning the thing going away, actually. Instead, it gave them the ball at the 2. LOL. THE TWO. If that's not a key play, then I don't know what is.

It doesn't matter if the key play comes at the end or at the beginning or somewhere in the middle. If it's something that helps the opponent while also hurting our team at the same time...that's not just a "good play" by one team, such as the Ravens making a long pass completion to move the chains on 3rd and long...no, it's a swing in both directions.

When turnovers create instant points...folks, THAT is a key play that can determine games. I watched the highlights of the 2011 Maryland-Miami game that Davin Meggett played in, and the Terps won it 32-24. Miami had TWO turnovers that led to instant points for the Terps. Without those two turnovers that caused instant points, Maryland ends up losing the game and not winning it. Fact: That day, the Maryland offense wasn't going to win the game...but the Maryland TEAM was handed the win by two disastrous turnovers by Miami that the Terps turned into 14 instant points.

Jacoby impacted the game by not only turning the ball over, but by also giving the Ravens an easy TD opportunity from the 2-yard-line that affected the entire makeup of the game from that play onward. If he turns that ball over near mid-field instead of near the end zone, our defense has a chance to limit them to a FG at the worst. Instead, Jacoby lost himself in the moment and tried to do more than what he should do in that position with the magnitude of the game we were in.

It has shades of Rosencopter, yet the Rosencopter play was not nearly as bad, IMO, because it was the end of the game and Sage was trying to get the first down and seal the win with that first down play. Jacoby botched the punt at the beginning of the game when he had no earthly reason to risk something like that at THAT point in the game.

I agree with that completely.

I remember sitting in that sports bar in New Orleans with my wife, (damn near got thrown out of there, I was so f'king mad) and I told her, "THAT just cost us the ballgame!". And I remember getting on the game day thread on this board, and seeing a number of people saying exactly the same thing. It was a momentum shift, and altered the tempo of the game. It was a game changer.

Now, since it's the offseason I suppose, some want to look back on it and over analyze it to death.

drs23
05-09-2012, 01:46 PM
I agree with that completely.

I remember sitting in that sports bar in New Orleans with my wife, (damn near got thrown out of there, I was so f'king mad) and I told her, "THAT just cost us the ballgame!". And I remember getting on the game day thread on this board, and seeing a number of people saying exactly the same thing. It was a momentum shift, and altered the tempo of the game. It was a game changer.

Now, since it's the offseason I suppose, some want to look back on it and over analyze it to death.

But, but Marcus, that's what we do in the offseason. :spin:

escrimador
05-09-2012, 01:50 PM
Eh, he's a Raven now. Going by the history of transplanted Texans to the Ravens (Pollard, Leach), he'll probably end up being a great role player for them.

thunderkyss
05-09-2012, 08:42 PM
When Jacoby went down the 3rd game of his rookie yr, it was essentially the end of his days as a consisent playmaker as a WR. One of Garys faults is that he hangs on to his guys to long. IMHO

Think about how much we've got invested on the offensive side of the ball. We've splurged a little here & there, Aj, Schaub, Duane Brown, Aj... & that's it.

Kubiak is pretty confident with his abilities as an offensive guru to make lemonade with a few lemons.

We've invested heavily on the defensive side of the ball from Day 1 in the Kubiak era.

So think cheap, when you think about the "possible" replacement for Jj.

Granted, there were some deals made since Jj's been here that should have made Rick Smith get off his ass... Plaxico, Santana, Ginn, decent receivers that signed for less than the $3M/yr they gave Jacoby, but I can't imagine Kubiak saying, "No, were good with David Anderson & Jacoby, don't try to sign a quality reciever."

A real GM would have had signed them & let Kubiak explain why he didn't play them.

GP
05-09-2012, 09:20 PM
Still cannot believe we have two separate Jacoby Jones threads.

NitroGSXR
05-09-2012, 09:21 PM
Think about how much we've got invested on the offensive side of the ball. We've splurged a little here & there, Aj, Schaub, Duane Brown, Aj... & that's it.

Kubiak is pretty confident with his abilities as an offensive guru to make lemonade with a few lemons.

We've invested heavily on the defensive side of the ball from Day 1 in the Kubiak era.

So think cheap, when you think about the "possible" replacement for Jj.

Granted, there were some deals made since Jj's been here that should have made Rick Smith get off his ass... Plaxico, Santana, Ginn, decent receivers that signed for less than the $3M/yr they gave Jacoby, but I can't imagine Kubiak saying, "No, were good with David Anderson & Jacoby, don't try to sign a quality reciever."

A real GM would have had signed them & let Kubiak explain why he didn't play them.

Splurged on Duane Brown? As far as I know he's still playing out his rookie contract. You did forget that we paid Foster rather handsomely... Daniels too. I don't see how we are financially invested on the defensive side outside of the Manning and Joseph acquistions last year... Antonio too... but everybody else pretty much was on a rookie/vet minimum contract, even Mario. We even told Dunta to take a hike. Without actually figuring it, I believe we have traditionally had more money tied up on the offense side... by far.

Fili
05-09-2012, 09:27 PM
Still cannot believe we have two separate Jacoby Jones threads.

Exactly what I'm thinking................:butterfly:

The Pencil Neck
05-09-2012, 09:45 PM
Splurged on Duane Brown? As far as I know he's still playing out his rookie contract. You did forget that we paid Foster rather handsomely... Daniels too. I don't see how we are financially invested on the defensive side outside of the Manning and Joseph acquistions last year... Antonio too... but everybody else pretty much was on a rookie contract, even Mario. Without actually figuring it, I believe we have traditionally had more money tied up on the offense side... by far.

Duane Brown was a first rounder in the old CBA. That's a bit of a splash. But look at the rounds these guys were selected...

Schaub -- 3rd (Falcons)
Foster -- UDFA
AJ -- 1st
Kevin Walter -- 7th (Giants although he never played for them)
Jacoby Jones -- 3rd
Owen Daniels -- 3rd
Joel Dreessen -- 6th (Jets)
Duane Brown -- 1st
Wade Smith -- 3rd (Dolphins)
Chris Myers -- 6th
Mike Brisiel -- UDFA
Eric Winston -- 3rd

That's 2 first round, 4 3rd round, 2 sixth round, 1 seventh round, and 2 UDFA players. We made a big trade for Schaub but those other FA acquisitions weren't exactly "splashy" ones.

Now look at the defense...

Antonio Smith -- 5th round (Cards)
Watt - 1st round
Cody -- 2nd round (Lions)
Barwin -- 2nd round
Cushing -- 1st round
Ryans -- 2nd round
Reed -- 2nd round
JJo -- 1st round (Bengals)
Manning -- 2nd round (Bears)
Kareem -- 1st round
Quin -- 4th round

That's 4 first rounders, 5 second rounders, a 4th rounder and a 5th rounder. That's a lot of talent. And 3 of those guys were big splashy FA signings.

In the Kubiak regime, we've tried to pack the talent onto the defense while the offense is full of lower round "system" guys.

NitroGSXR
05-09-2012, 10:07 PM
Duane Brown was a first rounder in the old CBA. That's a bit of a splash. But look at the rounds these guys were selected...

Schaub -- 3rd (Falcons)
Foster -- UDFA
AJ -- 1st
Kevin Walter -- 7th (Giants although he never played for them)
Jacoby Jones -- 3rd
Owen Daniels -- 3rd
Joel Dreessen -- 6th (Jets)
Duane Brown -- 1st
Wade Smith -- 3rd (Dolphins)
Chris Myers -- 6th
Mike Brisiel -- UDFA
Eric Winston -- 3rd

That's 2 first round, 4 3rd round, 2 sixth round, 1 seventh round, and 2 UDFA players. We made a big trade for Schaub but those other FA acquisitions weren't exactly "splashy" ones.

Now look at the defense...

Antonio Smith -- 5th round (Cards)
Watt - 1st round
Cody -- 2nd round (Lions)
Barwin -- 2nd round
Cushing -- 1st round
Ryans -- 2nd round
Reed -- 2nd round
JJo -- 1st round (Bengals)
Manning -- 2nd round (Bears)
Kareem -- 1st round
Quin -- 4th round

That's 4 first rounders, 5 second rounders, a 4th rounder and a 5th rounder. That's a lot of talent. And 3 of those guys were big splashy FA signings.

In the Kubiak regime, we've tried to pack the talent onto the defense while the offense is full of lower round "system" guys.

I'm talking about money. I know we have invested heavily in the draft on defense i.e. rookie contracts. Schaub didn't cost a 3rd. He cost 50 million. Walter, Green, Moulds, Salaam, Winston... all commanded a good chunk. We spend more on offense with Kubiak and draft/minimum vet more on defense.

powda
05-09-2012, 10:22 PM
Daniels was a 4th rounder.

Its a product of success. The offense was better faster and those players have been retained in general, grown older and are on 2nd-3rd contracts. As the younger defensive players reach their 2nd contracts i think you'll see the bulk of money used on that side of the ball.

The Pencil Neck
05-09-2012, 10:27 PM
I'm talking about money. I know we have invested heavily in the draft on defense i.e. rookie contracts. Schaub didn't cost a 3rd. He cost 50 million. Walter, Green, Moulds, Salaam, Winston... all commanded a good chunk. We spend more on offense with Kubiak and draft/minimum vet more on defense.

You've got it all backwards.

Schaub was moderately expensive. Definitely starter money but not huge.

Walter? Green? Moulds? Salaam? Really? Those guys were all on chump-change contracts. Barely anything. Cutting those guys didn't hurt us. When Winston started to command real, big dollars, they cut him. Wade Smith? Not a big contract. Vickers? Chump change.

On Defense, though? Antonio Smith, Jonathon Joseph, Manning? Those guys got big contracts. AND 1st rounders get big contracts and all of our 1st rounders in this regime (bar Brown) are all defense. That shifts the majority of the money to the defensive side.

Re-signing Arian and Myers has only now started to shift some of the money back toward the offense but the majority of it is on the defensive side.

The Pencil Neck
05-09-2012, 10:28 PM
Daniels was a 4th rounder.

Its a product of success. The offense was better faster and those players have been retained in general, grown older and are on 2nd-3rd contracts. As the younger defensive players reach their 2nd contracts i think you'll see the bulk of money used on that side of the ball.

Ooops. You're right.

Dutchrudder
05-09-2012, 10:32 PM
Schaub cost the Texans two 2nd round picks, not just one 3rd. If you really want to compare the cost/value of these guys, you gotta keep the units straight. Free agents should be about the money spent, not their original draft position.

The Pencil Neck
05-09-2012, 10:37 PM
OK.

Let's get this straight...

I was saying where all these guys were drafted. I was not saying that Schaub cost us a third. I was saying that Schaub was drafted in the 3rd round by the Falcons.

I listed every starter from last year, where they were drafted, and who drafted them. That gives an idea of their originally perceived talent level.

For those that were drafted by us, it also gives an indication of their salary because it's based on their draft position.

steelbtexan
05-09-2012, 10:43 PM
Schaub cost the Texans two 2nd round picks, not just one 3rd. If you really want to compare the cost/value of these guys, you gotta keep the units straight. Free agents should be about the money spent, not their original draft position.

Lets not let the facts get in the way of an agenda,

Fact= 1 playoff appearence in decade,

ObsiWan
05-10-2012, 03:55 AM
Child please. They won by 7, Jacoby gave them 7. It's really simple math, unless you want to blame the defense for giving up a TD from the 2. We needed 4+ points in the 4th, which is why Yates kept throwing so much. If we were just going for a FG to tie or take the lead, the entire offense would have played differently. No way do those last two INTs happen if we are down by 3 or less. It's a whole different ball game and it takes a lot of pressure off Yates.

And Yates' pick gave them their last seven points. Chronologically speaking, we got back the 7 pts Jones spotted them. And actually, he spotted them four pts since we were up by 3 when he screwed the pooch. It was Yates' pick that gave them the 7 pts we never overcame.

After Jones' "gift" we were down 7-3 with 9 full minutes left to go in the first qtr.

There was no reason, only down by four points for Yates to be under pressure to throw. Foster had 132 yds and six on the famed Ravens' D. Yates didn't have to throw only down by four. It was when his Yates' INT - still in the first qtr - put us down by FOURTEEN is when we were forced into have-to-throw mode.

Rey
05-10-2012, 07:03 AM
And Yates' pick gave them their last seven points. Chronologically speaking, we got back the 7 pts Jones spotted them. And actually, he spotted them four pts since we were up by 3 when he screwed the pooch. It was Yates' pick that gave them the 7 pts we never overcame.

After Jones' "gift" we were down 7-3 with 9 full minutes left to go in the first qtr.

There was no reason, only down by four points for Yates to be under pressure to throw. Foster had 132 yds and six on the famed Ravens' D. Yates didn't have to throw only down by four. It was when his Yates' INT - still in the first qtr - put us down by FOURTEEN is when we were forced into have-to-throw mode.

I seriously can't believe you are comparing tj Yates to jacoby jones here.

Do you really not see how they are different?

Dutchrudder
05-10-2012, 07:33 AM
OK.

Let's get this straight...

I was saying where all these guys were drafted. I was not saying that Schaub cost us a third. I was saying that Schaub was drafted in the 3rd round by the Falcons.

I listed every starter from last year, where they were drafted, and who drafted them. That gives an idea of their originally perceived talent level.

For those that were drafted by us, it also gives an indication of their salary because it's based on their draft position.

Oh ok, then I would have to say that it's mostly irrelevant. Most of those guys are on their second or third contracts, which will reflect their perceived values better than their draft position.

NitroGSXR
05-10-2012, 08:11 AM
You've got it all backwards.

Schaub was moderately expensive. Definitely starter money but not huge.

Walter? Green? Moulds? Salaam? Really? Those guys were all on chump-change contracts. Barely anything. Cutting those guys didn't hurt us. When Winston started to command real, big dollars, they cut him. Wade Smith? Not a big contract. Vickers? Chump change.

On Defense, though? Antonio Smith, Jonathon Joseph, Manning? Those guys got big contracts. AND 1st rounders get big contracts and all of our 1st rounders in this regime (bar Brown) are all defense. That shifts the majority of the money to the defensive side.

Re-signing Arian and Myers has only now started to shift some of the money back toward the offense but the majority of it is on the defensive side.

Moderately expensive? 48 million plus two seconds. Chump change contracts? They add up quick. You don't remember being forced to overpay for middle-of-the-pack FAs to get them here? I sure do. Carrying over dead cap hits was once the norm here. We essentially bought our offense while we drafted our defense. Schaub counts as a buy. The Texans did not buy Mario Williams, sold DeMeco Ryans' contract, and jettisoned Dunta while we re-up Winston, Jacoby, and even Andre Johnson.

thunderkyss
05-10-2012, 10:13 AM
Splurged on Duane Brown? As far as I know he's still playing out his rookie contract.

We burned a first round pick on him, the only 1st round pick we've used on an offensive player? Yeah, that's splurging.

You did forget that we paid Foster rather handsomely... Daniels too. I don't see how we are financially invested on the defensive side outside of the Manning and Joseph acquistions last year... Antonio too... but everybody else pretty much was on a rookie/vet minimum contract, even Mario.

Foster didn't get paid till this year, OD a couple of years ago, I believe Schaub the year before OD... 1 payday to an offensive player a year or so, that's the trend.

Though they are on their rookie contracts, they're still high draft picks (& Mario's rookie contract was a monster over the last two years of the deal), high draft picks are valuable, hence the splurge. Mario, Demeco, Amobi,Cushing, Barwin, Kj, Watt, Reed, Mercilus, Then throw in the FAs, Weaver (big money, under-performed), Antonio, Joseph, & Manning.

We've been trying to fix the defense from day 1 Kubiak era.

We even told Dunta to take a hike. Without actually figuring it, I believe we have traditionally had more money tied up on the offense side... by far.

Dunta is the only player in Texans history to be franchised. We paid him $9M to play for us that year.

We've spent some money on the offensive side, I'm not saying we didn't. But we've spent more in money & draft picks on the defensive side as far as I can tell, without breaking out the abacus.

thunderkyss
05-10-2012, 10:20 AM
There was no reason, only down by four points for Yates to be under pressure to throw. Foster had 132 yds and six on the famed Ravens' D. Yates didn't have to throw only down by four. It was when his Yates' INT - still in the first qtr - put us down by FOURTEEN is when we were forced into have-to-throw mode.

& then, there were two almost picks before his last one.

Don't you think someone should have said.... "wait a minute, we need to slow this kid down... Where's that Arian guy?"

steelbtexan
05-10-2012, 10:24 AM
Jacoby = 5 yrs of wasted talent.

The Pencil Neck
05-10-2012, 11:29 AM
Moderately expensive? 48 million plus two seconds.

For a franchise QB? He's not among the highest paid QBs in the league. he's not even close. That 48 million was for a 6 year contract.

Chump change contracts? They add up quick.

Those guys you mentioned were all signed for very favorable contracts. That's why they were so easily cut. Salaam was a year to year guy. He wasn't making bank. Walter? Small contract. Dreessen? Tiny contract.

You don't remember being forced to overpay for middle-of-the-pack FAs to get them here? I sure do. Carrying over dead cap hits was once the norm here. We essentially bought our offense while we drafted our defense.

So... where are all these guys we bought? We've got as many home grown drafted starters on the offense as we do on the defense. AND those home grown offensive players are mostly later round guys.

I remember our old crappy FAs but that was the previous regime and has nothing to do with this one.

Schaub counts as a buy.

OK. So? You'd prefer the contract of Matt Cassel? He's getting $63 million over 6 years. Or a $78 million contract for Bradford? Or Matt Ryan's 6 year $72 million contract? Or how about Vick's 6 year $100 million contract?

Schaub counts as a STEAL.

The Texans did not buy Mario Williams, sold DeMeco Ryans' contract, and jettisoned Dunta while we re-up Winston, Jacoby, and even Andre Johnson.

Listen.

To me, when you say "buy an offense" that means that most of the players come from somewhere else. You didn't draft them. Drafting someone and then giving them an extension to keep them isn't "buying" them to me. If they are to you, then we have that basic semantic difference and there's no need to continue talking about it.

Our offense is stocked mostly with guys we drafted in the later rounds or brought in as UDFAs. The FAs on that side of the ball are not expensive. The one guy we traded for is not expensive when compared to other people at his position although, like any QB, he does represent a sizable chunk of change.

Our defense is stocked mostly with guys we drafted in the first and second round. The FAs on that side of the ball ARE expensive and were among the hot items at their position the year we bought them.

To me, we've spent a lot more high round draft picks and big time dollars on the defensive side than the offensive side.

majestrate
05-10-2012, 11:34 AM
So a guy shanks a field goal and a team loses the game because of it...I mean, we could rationalize that the offense should have scored a TD instead of relying on the kicker to win the game.

The problem to me, is that people want to say the game of football is so intricate and complex that no single play is responsible for the outcome. Yes, there are many plays in a game that are important. However, there CAN be a key play that provides a win or loss potential.

Jacoby's bad decision, and its outcome, was the key play of that game that determined the outcome. Without that play, the whole makeup of the game changes. We might end up winning the thing going away, actually. Instead, it gave them the ball at the 2. LOL. THE TWO. If that's not a key play, then I don't know what is.

It doesn't matter if the key play comes at the end or at the beginning or somewhere in the middle. If it's something that helps the opponent while also hurting our team at the same time...that's not just a "good play" by one team, such as the Ravens making a long pass completion to move the chains on 3rd and long...no, it's a swing in both directions.

When turnovers create instant points...folks, THAT is a key play that can determine games. I watched the highlights of the 2011 Maryland-Miami game that Davin Meggett played in, and the Terps won it 32-24. Miami had TWO turnovers that led to instant points for the Terps. Without those two turnovers that caused instant points, Maryland ends up losing the game and not winning it. Fact: That day, the Maryland offense wasn't going to win the game...but the Maryland TEAM was handed the win by two disastrous turnovers by Miami that the Terps turned into 14 instant points.

Jacoby impacted the game by not only turning the ball over, but by also giving the Ravens an easy TD opportunity from the 2-yard-line that affected the entire makeup of the game from that play onward. If he turns that ball over near mid-field instead of near the end zone, our defense has a chance to limit them to a FG at the worst. Instead, Jacoby lost himself in the moment and tried to do more than what he should do in that position with the magnitude of the game we were in.

It has shades of Rosencopter, yet the Rosencopter play was not nearly as bad, IMO, because it was the end of the game and Sage was trying to get the first down and seal the win with that first down play. Jacoby botched the punt at the beginning of the game when he had no earthly reason to risk something like that at THAT point in the game.
I'm willing to bet that he was hoping to get the game off to a real quick start by getting a decent return. Since it was early in the game, even if he didn't go anywhere with it, the risk was minimal (clarification: I'm guessing that was what was going through his head; I am not trying to justify his action).

Anyway, I'm not saying absolve him of any blame. I'm saying that he's not the only one that screwed up in that game, he was part of a team that failed to overcome mistakes made by that same team. And as such, he does not, in-fact, deserve all the blame for that loss, nor does he deserve a majority of it; he is your scapegoat (for whomever said he's not being scapegoated).

We clearly aren't going to agree these points and regurgitating the same scenario with different flavors isn't likely to change anyone's mind.

Thorn
05-10-2012, 11:35 AM
How on Earth did this damn thread get to 60 pages? Are we really that obsessed with JJ?

Of course, I posted in this multiple times myself before anyone feels like pointing that out. But now, from my high minded position of absurdity I shall pronounce judgement on the whole board. :spin:

So, let's all agree to stop posting in this damn thread and let it slip off the front page.

NitroGSXR
05-10-2012, 11:58 AM
For a franchise QB? He's not among the highest paid QBs in the league. he's not even close. That 48 million was for a 6 year contract.



Those guys you mentioned were all signed for very favorable contracts. That's why they were so easily cut. Salaam was a year to year guy. He wasn't making bank. Walter? Small contract. Dreessen? Tiny contract.



So... where are all these guys we bought? We've got as many home grown drafted starters on the offense as we do on the defense. AND those home grown offensive players are mostly later round guys.

I remember our old crappy FAs but that was the previous regime and has nothing to do with this one.



OK. So? You'd prefer the contract of Matt Cassel? He's getting $63 million over 6 years. Or a $78 million contract for Bradford? Or Matt Ryan's 6 year $72 million contract? Or how about Vick's 6 year $100 million contract?

Schaub counts as a STEAL.



Listen.

To me, when you say "buy an offense" that means that most of the players come from somewhere else. You didn't draft them. Drafting someone and then giving them an extension to keep them isn't "buying" them to me. If they are to you, then we have that basic semantic difference and there's no need to continue talking about it.

Our offense is stocked mostly with guys we drafted in the later rounds or brought in as UDFAs. The FAs on that side of the ball are not expensive. The one guy we traded for is not expensive when compared to other people at his position although, like any QB, he does represent a sizable chunk of change.

Our defense is stocked mostly with guys we drafted in the first and second round. The FAs on that side of the ball ARE expensive and were among the hot items at their position the year we bought them.

To me, we've spent a lot more high round draft picks and big time dollars on the defensive side than the offensive side.

The players I listed were all signed and released by this regime. I haven't spoken of any Morlon Greenwoods here or anything. Oh yeah... don't let me forget to add the David Carr extension. Did Walter not take a paycut this past off season and wasn't Andre Davis was one of the most well-paid backup WRs in the NFL.

Cassell? Bleh. I'm a big Schaub fan. There is nobody else I want captain-ing my team. 48 million AND two second round picks is expensive anyway you look at it. Money that I was GLAD that we paid. What other QBs are making now matters none to what we paid for Schaub then. It was pretty in line with one of the better contracts after factoring in the dollar value of those two second round picks. Vick's contract was an abnormality and should not count.

Failed first round draft pick on the DL in several tries before finally buying one in Antonio Smith. Same with us failing with CB and SS in the later rounds before we bought Joseph and Manning.

It does sound like you and I are on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to talk about it then that's fine but please do save the condescending tone for somebody else. I am here to talk football. And yes I do think extending them matters... especially when we pay them among the top earners at their positions.

ObsiWan
05-11-2012, 02:37 AM
Huh? I seriously haven't seen anyone say that.

But you kind of eliminate the possibility that we score when you turn the ball over and hand them 7 points.

Also, you change the dynamics of the game. Whether or not we actually go down and score is not relevant. Hell a three and out is better than a stupid turn over on right there.

oh yeah... we had just been held to a FG on the previous possession and had Jscoby got the hell out of the way - as he dang well should have - we would have been inside the 20. Probably inside the ten. Kubiak would have gone conservative and we most likely would have gone 3 and out and punted it back. What are the true odds that a Turk gets off 55-yd boomer at that point? Not likely.

Truth is in the first qtr two bonehead plays and KJ getting beat by a pretty good pass and catch gave the Ravens all but three of the pts they got that day. Further, our offense, with the best RB in the playoffs and the best WR in the game and a probowl quality TE could not muster more than ten points in the remaining 45 minutes of the game.

Rey
05-11-2012, 08:09 AM
Further, our offense, with the best RB in the playoffs and the best WR in the game and a probowl quality TE could not muster more than ten points in the remaining 45 minutes of the game.

The first time we played Baltimore we ended up scoring 1 point more than what we did in the Play-offs. And that was with Schaub in the game, no bone headed special teams plays and no 3 INT's. Albeit Schaub did take 4 sacks and had the fumble, but we played much cleaner as a football team.

Truth is, the Ravens have a pretty damn good defense.

Lucky
05-11-2012, 08:52 AM
Truth is, the Ravens have a pretty damn good defense.
Seconded. But, they will be missing a very big part of that defense this season (Terrell Suggs). Let's see how they respond to that.

BullBlitz
05-11-2012, 08:59 AM
Seconded. But, they will be missing a very big part of that defense this season (Terrell Suggs). Let's see how they respond to that.

We will be missing a bigger part of our offensive line. Let's see how we respond to that.

Lucky
05-11-2012, 09:02 AM
We will be missing a bigger part of our offensive line. Let's see how we respond to that.

Really? You think Suggs will be more easily replaced than Winston and Brisiel? Suggs is one of the top 10 defenders in the league. Winston and Brisiel are good ZBS linemen. Pretty sure the Ravens are smarting more than the Texans.

Rey
05-11-2012, 09:08 AM
Really? You think Suggs will be more easily replaced than Winston and Brisiel? Suggs is one of the top 10 defenders in the league. Winston and Brisiel are good ZBS linemen. Pretty sure the Ravens are smarting more than the Texans.

Agreed.

Suggs didn't do a whole lot against us, but overall he has been a beast and that is going to be one less weapon they have.

GP
05-11-2012, 09:38 AM
I'm willing to bet that he was hoping to get the game off to a real quick start by getting a decent return. Since it was early in the game, even if he didn't go anywhere with it, the risk was minimal (clarification: I'm guessing that was what was going through his head; I am not trying to justify his action).

The risk was minimal? He was fielding it on the bounce, with gunners in his face, and it was somewhere near the 10 or 15...and that's "minimal risk?"

Look, I know we all tend to lock into our positions and debate it through to the end...but there's now way "the risk was minimal" is accurate.

Everybody keeps saying how close a game it was. How points were at a premium that day. Well, then what sense does it make to spot a team the 2-yard line and an easy 6 that day?

It was a huge play. It had a two-way swing effect. It kept us from having a possession to run clock and maybe score. And it gave them 7 points. Instantly.

Coaches seem to think Jacoby is a liability and not an asset. The playoff blunder was what did him in. And the economics of the cap, as well, which added an extra incentive to end the relationship.

TimeKiller
05-11-2012, 09:49 AM
Check out what Ravens fans have to say about it.....not exactly thrilled lol....
http://www.ravens24x7.com/forum/showthread.php?91197-Ravens-sign-Jacoby-Jones/page2

steelbtexan
05-11-2012, 10:22 AM
The players I listed were all signed and released by this regime. I haven't spoken of any Morlon Greenwoods here or anything. Oh yeah... don't let me forget to add the David Carr extension. Did Walter not take a paycut this past off season and wasn't Andre Davis was one of the most well-paid backup WRs in the NFL.

Cassell? Bleh. I'm a big Schaub fan. There is nobody else I want captain-ing my team. 48 million AND two second round picks is expensive anyway you look at it. Money that I was GLAD that we paid. What other QBs are making now matters none to what we paid for Schaub then. It was pretty in line with one of the better contracts after factoring in the dollar value of those two second round picks. Vick's contract was an abnormality and should not count.

Failed first round draft pick on the DL in several tries before finally buying one in Antonio Smith. Same with us failing with CB and SS in the later rounds before we bought Joseph and Manning.

It does sound like you and I are on the complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to talk about it then that's fine but please do save the condescending tone for somebody else. I am here to talk football. And yes I do think extending them matters... especially when we pay them among the top earners at their positions.

1. This regime lacks in certian areas. But they look like HOF's compared to the Casserly regime. Gald to see there are no more Greenwood, Robaire Smith, Wade etc... contracts.

2. The Schaub contract is a good value. How much would the Texans have to pay those two 2nd rd draft picks. You can subtract that $$$$ value from Schaubs contract and suddenly Schaubs contract looks like a much better value.

3. Crappy drafting on the defensive side of the ball by both the Casserly and Rick/Gary regimes has been the root of the problems with the Texans on field product. They've wasted many high draft picks on that side of the ball. The main reason the defense has improved is that BoB spent $$$$ getting the top tier FA's in the secondary last yr (JoJo/Manning,finally getting a quality S for the 1st time since the teams inception. ) and Wade did a great job telling Rick who to draft.

Hopefully Wade stays, Gary keeps improving at his job. BoB re-ups Barwin,D.Brown,Quin etc.. and hopefully Rick structures the contracts so the Texans can add 1 tier one FA each yr, like the Eagles do.

thunderkyss
05-11-2012, 12:12 PM
How on Earth did this damn thread get to 60 pages? Are we really that obsessed with JJ?


Thanks alot. I finally got this thread derailed & you bring us back home.

Way to go old timer.

thunderkyss
05-11-2012, 12:19 PM
The main reason the defense has improved is that BoB spent $$$$ getting the top tier FA's in the secondary last yr (JoJo/Manning,finally getting a quality S for the 1st time since the teams inception. ) and Wade did a great job telling Rick who to draft.


Again, I think this line of thinking is getting way out of line here.

Jjo & Manning are the same caliber FAs we've always signed since Smith has been here. Antonio Smith, Sean Cody, Wade Smith..... Same guy, except Jjo played better than even his old team thought he was capable of. He played like a Tier 1 guy in 2012, before that & at the time of our signing him, he was a tier 2 guy.

The biggest difference here, is that we made 2 "big" acquisitions, where we usually only make 1.

Then Wade telling Rick who to draft? He must have been around in '09 when we picked up Cushing & Barwin, because I don't see a lot of difference in the caliber/type of player between them & Watt & Reed.

I know everyone is down on Kj, he's not the "play-maker" we want him to be, but he's a solid pick, same as Ben Tate, Duane Brown, Glover Quin, etc... guys Rick Smith drafted before Wade got here that fit the same mold as Jj Watt & Brooks Reed.

NitroGSXR
05-11-2012, 12:39 PM
1. This regime lacks in certian areas. But they look like HOF's compared to the Casserly regime. Gald to see there are no more Greenwood, Robaire Smith, Wade etc... contracts.

2. The Schaub contract is a good value. How much would the Texans have to pay those two 2nd rd draft picks. You can subtract that $$$$ value from Schaubs contract and suddenly Schaubs contract looks like a much better value.

3. Crappy drafting on the defensive side of the ball by both the Casserly and Rick/Gary regimes has been the root of the problems with the Texans on field product. They've wasted many high draft picks on that side of the ball. The main reason the defense has improved is that BoB spent $$$$ getting the top tier FA's in the secondary last yr (JoJo/Manning,finally getting a quality S for the 1st time since the teams inception. ) and Wade did a great job telling Rick who to draft.

Hopefully Wade stays, Gary keeps improving at his job. BoB re-ups Barwin,D.Brown,Quin etc.. and hopefully Rick structures the contracts so the Texans can add 1 tier one FA each yr, like the Eagles do.

I agree with everything.

As for #2, I was looking at it wrong. I was thinking 48 million PLUS the dollar costs of two seconds. You're right. I should have subtracted. ThePencilNeck was right. Schaub was a steal.

2012Champs
05-11-2012, 01:07 PM
I agree with that completely.

I remember sitting in that sports bar in New Orleans with my wife, (damn near got thrown out of there, I was so f'king mad) and I told her, "THAT just cost us the ballgame!". And I remember getting on the game day thread on this board, and seeing a number of people saying exactly the same thing. It was a momentum shift, and altered the tempo of the game. It was a game changer.

Now, since it's the offseason I suppose, some want to look back on it and over analyze it to death.



If that play 5 minutes into the game putting you down 4 points cost you the game you had no business in the playoffs and werent going to win anyhow. Maybe if we didnt have the muffed punt, 3 ints and missed FG we would have won the game. The people talking about the momentum totally being lost 5 min into the game are just making excuses for the poor performance on the offensive side of the ball

2012Champs
05-11-2012, 01:08 PM
I seriously can't believe you are comparing tj Yates to jacoby jones here.

Do you really not see how they are different?



Yeah its not comparable. Yates cost us more points

Rey
05-11-2012, 01:13 PM
Yeah its not comparable. Yates cost us more points

Jacoby gave away more points.

But maybe it wasn't Yates fault for the INT's. It was probably Jacoby's bad routes which made him force the ball into coverage :corrosion:

2012Champs
05-11-2012, 02:09 PM
Jacoby gave away more points.

But maybe it wasn't Yates fault for the INT's. It was probably Jacoby's bad routes which made him force the ball into coverage :corrosion:



Maybe its my bad memory but how did jones give away more points?

Rey
05-11-2012, 02:41 PM
Maybe its my bad memory but how did jones give away more points?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR6PjiHHrH-v9rzEHnwpok1xr4OyepjayYb-i5YjuWWlqF55bRH91HAJmsjSQ

steelbtexan
05-11-2012, 02:45 PM
Again, I think this line of thinking is getting way out of line here.

Jjo & Manning are the same caliber FAs we've always signed since Smith has been here. Antonio Smith, Sean Cody, Wade Smith..... Same guy, except Jjo played better than even his old team thought he was capable of. He played like a Tier 1 guy in 2012, before that & at the time of our signing him, he was a tier 2 guy.

The biggest difference here, is that we made 2 "big" acquisitions, where we usually only make 1.

Then Wade telling Rick who to draft? He must have been around in '09 when we picked up Cushing & Barwin, because I don't see a lot of difference in the caliber/type of player between them & Watt & Reed.

I know everyone is down on Kj, he's not the "play-maker" we want him to be, but he's a solid pick, same as Ben Tate, Duane Brown, Glover Quin, etc... guys Rick Smith drafted before Wade got here that fit the same mold as Jj Watt & Brooks Reed.

Spin it however you would like.

Fact is Wade added the players he wanted in FA and the draft. The defense went from historically bad to top 5. Rick had very little to do with this. Just as he had very little to do with picking defensive players when Bush was here. Except for Ricks area of expertise DB's.

Why do you think BoB made Wade the highest paid DC in the NFL? To build a defense that wasn't the embarassment that the 2010 defense was?

Mission accomplished Wade. BTW I expect the defense tpo take a step back next yr due to the level of competition they will be facing next yr. But anything will be an imrprovement ove what was the debacle that was the 2010 defense.

BTW, Concerning Jacoby, Gary is loyal to his guys to fault. But I would rather a HC be this way than the other.

welsh texan
05-11-2012, 03:09 PM
Spin it however you would like.

Fact is Wade added the players he wanted in FA and the draft. The defense went from historically bad to top 5. Rick had very little to do with this. Just as he had very little to do with picking defensive players when Bush was here. Except for Ricks area of expertise DB's.

Why do you think BoB made Wade the highest paid DC in the NFL? To build a defense that wasn't the embarassment that the 2010 defense was?

Mission accomplished Wade. BTW I expect the defense tpo take a step back next yr due to the level of competition they will be facing next yr. But anything will be an imrprovement ove what was the debacle that was the 2010 defense.

BTW, Concerning Jacoby, Gary is loyal to his guys to fault. But I would rather a HC be this way than the other.

Its you who's doing the spinning here I'm afraid, a good GM provides his coaches with the players they are looking for to fit their scheme. That relies on receiving information on what the coach is looking for, passing it to the scouts, then receiving scouting reports and passing it to the coach for feedback. If either the scouting dept. or coach is poor at talent evaluation then the whole system breaks down.

Look at whats been achieved on the O with mostly late round picks, late round trades, and some bottom of the barrel FA's.

Look at what we got in last years draft, do you honestly believe that Wade spent his time off before signing with Houston managing his own scouting team to put together a shortlist of players he liked and handed it to Smith?

Because I don't, I think Rick had his scouting dept. organised really well, when Wade came in only a couple of months ahead of the draft, the information had already been collected and with his preferences applied we came up with a shortlist to work from.

Team effort if you ask me, and the sudden improvement can be put down to how much better Wade Smith is than Frank Bush, not how much better he is than Rick Smith, given that Rick did the majority of the legwork in organising that draft.

2012Champs
05-11-2012, 03:19 PM
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR6PjiHHrH-v9rzEHnwpok1xr4OyepjayYb-i5YjuWWlqF55bRH91HAJmsjSQ



Im very serious. Tell me how you are breaking down the points of what Jones cost us and what Yates cost us

Texan_Bill
05-11-2012, 03:38 PM
5 year veteran ---------------> -7 points and momentum. This, just after the defense caused the Ravens to go three and out on their first possesion. AND during a game where you need to play with a lead to help protect your rook. Summary: Jackassery!


Rookie QB (who was holding a clip board most of the season) --------------> -10 Summary: rookie mistakes,


It's not a matter of which guy gave up more points, but what points were more costly to the outcome of the game. Surely the 5 year vet. should bear more of the responsibililty than a rookie QB put in that spot.

The Pencil Neck
05-11-2012, 03:42 PM
Again, I think this line of thinking is getting way out of line here.

It's all semantics and how you define tier 1, tier 2, etc. You lump them together differently than I do.

No biggie.

Premier
05-11-2012, 03:54 PM
Im very serious. Tell me how you are breaking down the points of what Jones cost us and what Yates cost us

10 to 7..

seeing as how a ravens offense (who struggled the entire game) had to only go a WHOLE 2 yards after the jacoby muff for the TD.. it was a gimmie 7...

jacoby actually muffed 2 punts (recovered the 2nd), lost yardage on another 2 punts, and had ZERO receptions..

jacoby was a waste of space that sunday.. completely useless.. GOOD RIDDANCE...

welsh texan
05-11-2012, 04:02 PM
10 to 7..

seeing as how a ravens offense (who struggled the entire game) had to only go a WHOLE 2 yards after the jacoby muff for the TD.. it was a gimmie 7...

jacoby actually muffed 2 punts (recover the 2nd), lost yardage on another 2 punts, and had ZERO targets..

jacoby was a waste of space that sunday.. completely useless.. GOOD RIDDANCE...

FIFY, the bum could not even get himself open. This is why I don't really get the whole punt muff debacle. Dude was meant to be our #3 WR, should have made himself our #2, and with our #1 reciever and #1 TE both playing through pretty serious injuries that did affect their performance, he couldn't even make himself an option.

When desperation time came, it was a better option to chuck a jump ball at a one legged, triple covered AJ time and again than chance looking in Jacoby's direction.

IMO, that is 10 times worse than muffing the punt, which was a stupid decision rather than simple lack of ability.

ObsiWan
05-11-2012, 04:29 PM
Maybe its my bad memory but how did jones give away more points?

Beats the heck out of me. Jones wasn't the one who threw picks on three different drives where we could have scored. That's minimum NINE points right there.

2012Champs
05-11-2012, 05:09 PM
5 year veteran ---------------> -7 points and momentum. This, just after the defense caused the Ravens to go three and out on their first possesion. AND during a game where you need to play with a lead to help protect your rook. Summary: Jackassery!


Rookie QB (who was holding a clip board most of the season) --------------> -10 Summary: rookie mistakes,


It's not a matter of which guy gave up more points, but what points were more costly to the outcome of the game. Surely the 5 year vet. should bear more of the responsibililty than a rookie QB put in that spot.



10 points are more costly than 7

3 drives lost are more costly than 1

Double Barrel
05-11-2012, 05:17 PM
I am sure that during the playoff game after he fumbled that punt I wrote in the game thread the Ravens are going to have to sign the guy when he gets cut over this just as a thanks for the huge gift.

Source (http://www.ravens24x7.com/forum/showthread.php?91197-Ravens-sign-Jacoby-Jones/page4)

:heh:

BullBlitz
05-11-2012, 05:32 PM
Really? You think Suggs will be more easily replaced than Winston and Brisiel? Suggs is one of the top 10 defenders in the league. Winston and Brisiel are good ZBS linemen. Pretty sure the Ravens are smarting more than the Texans.

Hope not.

The Pencil Neck
05-11-2012, 05:38 PM
10 points are more costly than 7

3 drives lost are more costly than 1

When you've got a rookie QB, especially your 3rd stringer, going against one of the best defenses in the league, you don't expect him not to make mistakes. We knew going in he was going to have a rough day and that the rest of the team would have to help carry TJ.

Jacoby was one of the vets that was supposed to be carrying TJ by not making stupid mistakes.

2012Champs
05-11-2012, 05:41 PM
When you've got a rookie QB, especially your 3rd stringer, going against one of the best defenses in the league, you don't expect him not to make mistakes. We knew going in he was going to have a rough day and that the rest of the team would have to help carry TJ.

Jacoby was one of the vets that was supposed to be carrying TJ by not making stupid mistakes.


It's nothing but excuses. Yates cost us more points and more drives than jacoby did. Your QB rookie or not is responsible for leading the team for at least half the game. Jacoby didn't cost us the game. Jacoby, Yates and missed Fgs cost us the game.

The Pencil Neck
05-11-2012, 05:46 PM
It's nothing but excuses. Yates cost us more points and more drives than jacoby did. Your QB rookie or not is responsible for leading the team for at least half the game. Jacoby didn't cost us the game. Jacoby, Yates and missed Fgs cost us the game.

OK. So you would have cut TJ and kept Jacoby? Is that the point you're making?

Are you saying that Jacoby had nothing whatsoever to do with us losing?

chenjy9
05-11-2012, 06:42 PM
How is this still worth discussing? It was as clear as daylight that Jones completely gave away early game momentum. Yes the D clawed us back within striking distance, but it was a game against a veteran playoff team with one of the best defenses in league where none of our veterans had the leeway to make mistakes. Yes TJ Yates made mistakes and threw 3 dumb picks. Everyone was expecting that to happen considering TJ Yates was a rookie 3rd stringer. We knew he would be rattled. Anyone that didn't think it would eventually happen, needs to get their brain checked out for tumors.

Jones on the other hand botched the punt returns two games in a row (in case you forgot, he field a punt off the bounce against Cincy but fortunately caught it). This is INEXCUSABLE for a 5 year veteran, much less one that we already demoted from heir to WR#1 to kick returner, to consistently make those types of retarded mistakes, especially in the biggest games of his career. We weren't even asking this lousy sack of crap to carry us anymore. We were just asking him to be simply productive at that point in time and he continued to prove that he really was nothing but dead air between the ears. His mistake was far more damaging than Yates given that the team was counting on him much more as a tenured veteran.

The muffed punt is not the only reason we are so pissed off with this mentally degenerate. As you would recall, the great majority of Texans fans wanted him gone even before the season started.

Yaky
05-11-2012, 08:10 PM
Really? You think Suggs will be more easily replaced than Winston and Brisiel? Suggs is one of the top 10 defenders in the league. Winston and Brisiel are good ZBS linemen. Pretty sure the Ravens are smarting more than the Texans.

Winston and Brisiel helped the Texans be one of the top teams at running the ball, and they were also good in pass protection. I don't know why the Texans didn't release Wade Smith instead of Brisiel. Wade Smith was the worst starter on the OLine and he is older.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/13/eric-winston-hits-the-market/
The Texans cut Eric Winston. To quote Vonta Leach, “Are you kidding me?”
Consistently one of our higher graded right tackles, Winston fit the zone-blocking scheme perfectly with his ability to move laterally and get to the second level. His agility is a big reason why the Texans have had so much success in the run game recently. What’s more, he’s coming off a very good year with his pass protection. Not an easy feat when, for a large portion of the year, you have a rookie quarterback that likes holding onto the ball. While it may not seem like a lot, but the extra tenth of a second T.J. Yates held onto the ball meant he did so the fifth longest of all quarterbacks

Lucky
05-11-2012, 08:19 PM
Winston and Brisiel helped the Texans be one of the top teams at running the ball, and they were also good in pass protection. I don't know why the Texans didn't release Wade Smith instead of Brisiel. Wade Smith was the worst starter on the OLine and he is older.
Brisiel wasn't released, he was an unrestricted free agent. Wade Smith is under contract for the 2012 season at a $2 million salary.

The salary cap is why Brisiel and Winston are no longer on the Texans. They were solid players. But the main reasons the Texans are one of the top teams running the ball are Arian Foster and Ben Tate. Brisiel and Winston are not superstars. Terrell Suggs is a superstar. He will be much tougher to replace than Brisiel and Winston.

2012Champs
05-11-2012, 09:17 PM
OK. So you would have cut TJ and kept Jacoby? Is that the point you're making?

Are you saying that Jacoby had nothing whatsoever to do with us losing?


I'm fine with jones being cut but that has nothing to do with what I've said. Never once did I say Jones had nothing to do with the loss. I said he wasn't the reason or the major reason. It was jones, Yates and missed fg

The Pencil Neck
05-11-2012, 09:21 PM
I'm fine with jones being cut but that has nothing to do with what I've said. Never once did I say Jones had nothing to do with the loss. I said he wasn't the reason or the major reason. It was jones, Yates and missed fg

OK. Jones was ONE of the reasons, how about that?

I don't think anyone has said that TJ wasn't a reason we lost. But, as I said earlier, we expected him to play that way and if you didn't, you should have. A rookie is a rookie.

Premier
05-11-2012, 09:46 PM
jacoby spotted the ravens 7 points, its as simple as that. then he became a complete non-factor in every other aspect of the game.

interceptions happen, Brady threw 2 INTs the next week against The Ravens, defenses respond to interceptions.. its tough to ask your defense to force a 3 and out then immediately have to make a goal line stand at the 2 yard line..

2012Champs
05-11-2012, 09:55 PM
jacoby spotted the ravens 7 points, its as simple as that. then he became a complete non-factor in every other aspect of the game.

interceptions happen, Brady threw 2 INTs the next week against The Ravens, defenses respond to interceptions.. its tough to ask your defense to force a 3 and out then immediately have to make a goal line stand at the 2 yard line..



Brady has nothing to do with the texans loss. Our defense didn't seem to have a problem during the game with the ravens either. Our offense had the problems add in jones and there is the loss.

Premier
05-11-2012, 10:11 PM
thats not even close to being the point, maybe expectations of a rookie qb to play perfect football were a bit unrealistic, seeing as how a future HOF turned the ball over as well against the very same team the next week..

either way, with tj's struggles, he threw for more yards than flacco, had more YPC than flacco, and more first downs.. the texans outplayed the ravens in every facet of the game. both offenses looked terrible to say the least. the difference was the ravens played an ugly, error-free football game and capitalized on the texans mistakes..

you take away that stupid goof up by jacoby and its a different ball game..

CloakNNNdagger
05-11-2012, 10:40 PM
Winston and Brisiel helped the Texans be one of the top teams at running the ball, and they were also good in pass protection. I don't know why the Texans didn't release Wade Smith instead of Brisiel. Wade Smith was the worst starter on the OLine and he is older.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/13/eric-winston-hits-the-market/
The Texans cut Eric Winston. To quote Vonta Leach, “Are you kidding me?”
Consistently one of our higher graded right tackles, Winston fit the zone-blocking scheme perfectly with his ability to move laterally and get to the second level. His agility is a big reason why the Texans have had so much success in the run game recently. What’s more, he’s coming off a very good year with his pass protection. Not an easy feat when, for a large portion of the year, you have a rookie quarterback that likes holding onto the ball. While it may not seem like a lot, but the extra tenth of a second T.J. Yates held onto the ball meant he did so the fifth longest of all quarterbacks

Everytime I see these words associated with Winston in print, I picture a blackboard and hear some really awful sounds.........:gun:

http://stuckinchurch.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/image_21.png

GP
05-11-2012, 11:29 PM
Yates had a whole defense, with Ed Reed in charge, to contend with.

What did Jacoby have to contend with? A bouncing ball that BEGGED to be mishandled.

End of thread.

ObsiWan
05-11-2012, 11:43 PM
Yates had a whole defense, with Ed Reed in charge, to contend with.

What did Jacoby have to contend with? A bouncing ball that BEGGED to be mishandled.

End of thread.

My point is, and has always been, they both seriously screwed the pooch in that game.

Some of you contend that one screw-up (could have been two but Jones got one muff back) >> three screw-ups (could have been four as Reed dropped one possible pick). Sorry, but that does not compute.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.


...but you're wrong :D

steelbtexan
05-11-2012, 11:50 PM
Its you who's doing the spinning here I'm afraid, a good GM provides his coaches with the players they are looking for to fit their scheme. That relies on receiving information on what the coach is looking for, passing it to the scouts, then receiving scouting reports and passing it to the coach for feedback. If either the scouting dept. or coach is poor at talent evaluation then the whole system breaks down.

Look at whats been achieved on the O with mostly late round picks, late round trades, and some bottom of the barrel FA's.

Look at what we got in last years draft, do you honestly believe that Wade spent his time off before signing with Houston managing his own scouting team to put together a shortlist of players he liked and handed it to Smith?

Because I don't, I think Rick had his scouting dept. organised really well, when Wade came in only a couple of months ahead of the draft, the information had already been collected and with his preferences applied we came up with a shortlist to work from.

Team effort if you ask me, and the sudden improvement can be put down to how much better Wade Smith is than Frank Bush, not how much better he is than Rick Smith, given that Rick did the majority of the legwork in organising that draft.

Lets agree to disagree,

I thimk we can agree that both of us are glad Wade is part of the Texans organization. So that we can have this discussion. Before Wade we weren't afforded this opportunity.

Not going to derail this thread again. So you can have the last word on this topic if you wish.

Yaky
05-12-2012, 01:03 AM
Everytime I see these words associated with Winston in print, I picture a blackboard and hear some really awful sounds.........:gun:

http://stuckinchurch.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/image_21.png

Did you read that link? PFF rated Winston in pass protection as 4th, 3rd and 11th RT in 2009, 2010 and 2011. And he was left on an island, not helped with TEs, RBs or G like Brown. You severely underestimate Winston's contributions.

2012Champs
05-12-2012, 07:35 AM
thats not even close to being the point, maybe expectations of a rookie qb to play perfect football were a bit unrealistic, seeing as how a future HOF turned the ball over as well against the very same team the next week..

either way, with tj's struggles, he threw for more yards than flacco, had more YPC than flacco, and more first downs.. the texans outplayed the ravens in every facet of the game. both offenses looked terrible to say the least. the difference was the ravens played an ugly, error-free football game and capitalized on the texans mistakes..

you take away that stupid goof up by jacoby and its a different ball game..



We out played them in ints as well. Take away those 3 ints and it's a different ball game

chenjy9
05-12-2012, 09:57 AM
We out played them in ints as well. Take away those 3 ints and it's a different ball game

I would argue that Jacoby immediately spotting the Ravens a 7 point lead after our D held them down was far more damaging mentally than Yates 3 picks. I know you and thunderkyss will never agree and I don't really care either, seeing as Jones is gone and Yates is still here. The team knew they were going to have to be a crutch for Yates. I am sure none of them expected their 5 year veteran wideout whom Yates is also suppose to be leaning on as well, would play even worse and dumber than his typical rookie like play. Jacoby Jones mistakes in the playoffs were far more damaging simply because those were mistakes that a veteran like him should NEVER EVER EVER EVER make.

2012Champs
05-12-2012, 12:15 PM
I would argue that Jacoby immediately spotting the Ravens a 7 point lead after our D held them down was far more damaging mentally than Yates 3 picks. I know you and thunderkyss will never agree and I don't really care either, seeing as Jones is gone and Yates is still here. The team knew they were going to have to be a crutch for Yates. I am sure none of them expected their 5 year veteran wideout whom Yates is also suppose to be leaning on as well, would play even worse and dumber than his typical rookie like play. Jacoby Jones mistakes in the playoffs were far more damaging simply because those were mistakes that a veteran like him should NEVER EVER EVER EVER make.


What was the final score? Did our d do a bad job the rest of the game taking that mental hit? We won't agree because I don't think jones was the main reason we lost but he was certainly part of it. When another player gave up more turnovers and points than jones it baffles me to see how people keep making excuses for why we lost by placing most of the blame on jones. I don't care if Yates was a 12 year old kid that the texans sent out there. The texans sent him out there. At the end of the day Yates had 3 ints which stopped more drives and cost us more points than Jones did. When you tally up things that actually cost the team expectations don't mean anything. Expectations are what you expect to happen but what did happen was Yates turned the ball over more and cost us more points. We lost because of Yates/jones turnovers and missed fg. We didn't lose because of jones or yates

Rey
05-12-2012, 02:05 PM
What was the final score? Did our d do a bad job the rest of the game taking that mental hit? We won't agree because I don't think jones was the main reason we lost but he was certainly part of it. When another player gave up more turnovers and points than jones it baffles me to see how people keep making excuses for why we lost by placing most of the blame on jones. I don't care if Yates was a 12 year old kid that the texans sent out there. The texans sent him out there. At the end of the day Yates had 3 ints which stopped more drives and cost us more points than Jones did. When you tally up things that actually cost the team expectations don't mean anything. Expectations are what you expect to happen but what did happen was Yates turned the ball over more and cost us more points. We lost because of Yates/jones turnovers and missed fg. We didn't lose because of jones or yates

I guess you look at a 17 year old peeing on themselves the same as a 3 month old doing it.

Yes they both pissed their pants at the end of the day, but so what? Youre 17 years old. You shouldn't be doing that (health issues aside).


The fact that Yates was a rookie qb going up against that loaded ravens defense at home in the play offs does give him some grace.

Jacoby jones just made a terribly stupid play.

Are you seriously not understanding why people have come down so hard on jacoby and have given Yates a bit more lee way?

Seriously?

2012Champs
05-12-2012, 03:42 PM
I guess you look at a 17 year old peeing on themselves the same as a 3 month old doing it.

Yes they both pissed their pants at the end of the day, but so what? Youre 17 years old. You shouldn't be doing that (health issues aside).


The fact that Yates was a rookie qb going up against that loaded ravens defense at home in the play offs does give him some grace.

Jacoby jones just made a terribly stupid play.

Are you seriously not understanding why people have come down so hard on jacoby and have given Yates a bit more lee way?

Seriously?


Your comparison is crap. 17 year old and 3 month old. We are talking about two guys who are professional nfl football players. Further is yates was such a bad choice we would have gone with an alternative. Fact is the texans went with him. You said it yourself Jones made A terribly stupid play and Yates made a handful of them. Blaming jones for the loss is stupid, it was a team loss created by 4 turnovers and missed fgs

drs23
05-12-2012, 03:46 PM
Your comparison is crap. 17 year old and 3 month old. We are talking about two guys who are professional nfl football players. Further is yates was such a bad choice we would have gone with an alternative. Fact is the texans went with him. You said it yourself Jones made A terribly stupid play and Yates made a handful of them. Blaming jones for the loss is stupid, it was a team loss created by 4 turnovers and missed fgs

Jacoby started it! :nolisten: :stirpot:

ObsiWan
05-12-2012, 04:43 PM
I guess you look at a 17 year old peeing on themselves the same as a 3 month old doing it.

Yes they both pissed their pants at the end of the day, but so what? Youre 17 years old. You shouldn't be doing that (health issues aside).


The fact that Yates was a rookie qb going up against that loaded ravens defense at home in the play offs does give him some grace.

Jacoby jones just made a terribly stupid play.

Are you seriously not understanding why people have come down so hard on jacoby and have given Yates a bit more lee way?

Seriously?
Yeah but THREE TIMES the "Leeway"?!?! That's a lot of freakin' "forgiveness". Especially since Yates was sooo "fabulous" just one week earlier against the Bengals. What happened? He forgot to go to film study? He didn't take any notes while holding the clipboard during the first Ravens game?

At the end of the day our expectations should be "No excuses.
No explanations."

As I said, they both had jobs to do and failed.

Neither gets a pass.

The Pencil Neck
05-12-2012, 04:44 PM
Your comparison is crap. 17 year old and 3 month old. We are talking about two guys who are professional nfl football players. Further is yates was such a bad choice we would have gone with an alternative. Fact is the texans went with him. You said it yourself Jones made A terribly stupid play and Yates made a handful of them. Blaming jones for the loss is stupid, it was a team loss created by 4 turnovers and missed fgs

This is where we disagree.

I agree that Jacoby made a terribly stupid play.

But I disagree that TJ made a handful of terribly stupid plays. TJ made some bad plays. 'Terribly Stupid' is much worse than 'bad.' TJ's bad plays are the same bad plays that the Raven's defense makes other QB's make. This is the same Raven's defense that made Andy Dalton throw 3 ints, that made Ben Roethlisberger throw 3 ints, that made Tom Brady throw 2 ints. You can't expect a rookie to not make mistakes against that defense.

As I've said before (and over and over again), TJ made some bad plays. But his plays were nowhere near as egregious as Jacoby's. TJ's play is one of the reasons we lost, no one's saying it isn't. The missed FG didn't help. But the most atrocious mistake made was Jacoby's. He made a bonehead play... as you said, a TERRIBLY STUPID play.

The "blame" for our loss shouldn't be placed at any one person's feet. But more of it goes at Jacoby's than anyone else's.

Premier
05-12-2012, 07:12 PM
hey rookie, youre gonna have to be perfect today because our idiot wideout is gonna spot the ravens 7 points with a dumb mistake, not only that, hes gonna get blanketed in man by nickels and #2's, hes also gonna lose yards on returns by running backwards. so, no interceptions today against the #3 defense and future hall of famers..

got it..

False Start
05-12-2012, 07:27 PM
Delete, wrong thread. :littlelol:

thunderkyss
05-12-2012, 09:17 PM
Unsubscribed

Rey
05-13-2012, 12:19 AM
Good posts premier an PN.

I won't argue this anymore because it's just silly at this point.

Jacoby is gone, Yates is still the back up. The end.

Grams
05-13-2012, 07:08 AM
In a nutshell - it all boils down to a Ravens team with lots of playoff experience and an excellent defense against a team with a 3rd string rookie QB and only 1 playoff game experience.

With more playoff experience, the Texans could have overcome the fumble on the 2. Jacoby was not the only reason, but a large contributor to the loss.

He needed to go anyways. He cannot run a route and 90% of the time cannot catch the ball thrown to him. Not just in the playoff game, but most of his career as a Texan.

How many of you did not hold your breath on every punt return he fielded all year?

Mr. White
05-13-2012, 09:58 PM
6 months later and 1246 posts later. It's been real. Now it finally looks like it's turn out the lights.

Saying goodbye to this thread is like saying goodbye to an old friend.

2012Champs
05-14-2012, 09:22 AM
This is where we disagree.

I agree that Jacoby made a terribly stupid play.

But I disagree that TJ made a handful of terribly stupid plays. TJ made some bad plays. 'Terribly Stupid' is much worse than 'bad.' TJ's bad plays are the same bad plays that the Raven's defense makes other QB's make. This is the same Raven's defense that made Andy Dalton throw 3 ints, that made Ben Roethlisberger throw 3 ints, that made Tom Brady throw 2 ints. You can't expect a rookie to not make mistakes against that defense.

As I've said before (and over and over again), TJ made some bad plays. But his plays were nowhere near as egregious as Jacoby's. TJ's play is one of the reasons we lost, no one's saying it isn't. The missed FG didn't help. But the most atrocious mistake made was Jacoby's. He made a bonehead play... as you said, a TERRIBLY STUPID play.

The "blame" for our loss shouldn't be placed at any one person's feet. But more of it goes at Jacoby's than anyone else's.




more of the loss goes to Jones? I completly understand how someone who had 67% less turnovers and gave the ravens less points takes most of the blame

2012Champs
05-14-2012, 09:25 AM
hey rookie, youre gonna have to be perfect today because our idiot wideout is gonna spot the ravens 7 points with a dumb mistake, not only that, hes gonna get blanketed in man by nickels and #2's, hes also gonna lose yards on returns by running backwards. so, no interceptions today against the #3 defense and future hall of famers..

got it..



No one said Yates had to be perfect. He wasnt even mediocre. He sucked it up. Truth is he very easily could have had 5 ints if the ravens didnt just goof a couple. Yates didnt need to be perfect but giving 3 ints and 10 points to the ravens combined with Jones' fumble and 7 was too much to overcome. I swear too many of you let emotions of Jones' sucking it up for years and Yates lovefest get in the way of what happend. 4 Turnovers is too many to overcome. The majority of the blame hits the texans not a player

chenjy9
05-14-2012, 12:36 PM
6 months later and 1246 posts later. It's been real. Now it finally looks like it's turn out the lights.

Saying goodbye to this thread is like saying goodbye to an old friend.

I consider it more like finally getting rid of a nasty pest problem or a bad, bad nightmare finally coming to a close. :hurrah: