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Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 08:04 PM
I didn't know Jacoby was a 5th year starter.

He's in his 5th year...and was a starter. Hence 5th year starter. Does the semantics of what I typed really matter here? Fact is, he should know better...Jesus Christ. :gun:

Being a rookie does not excuse throwing into double and triple coverage on plays with 5 effing options. If #1 option is double/triple teamed, throw it to one of the other options. What happened to captain checkdown jr? Down the stretch he was passing to TE/RBs only. Now he get's AJ back and start's chucking up prayer into coverage. All the while he consistently missed opportunities to move the chains. In the case of the lastt game it costed us because of TOs.

:vincepalm: That's EXACTLY what being a 3rd string rookie affords him. Dude what planet do you live on? Who do you think the players were more pissed at after the game.. Yates or Janobody Jones? If you gave them a truth serum (because they aren't going to publicly trash their own) I assure you, they'd pick Janobody Jones.

There's a saying that gets tossed around from time to time. Every rookie QB is due to have a 3 INT game...well Yates had his against the Ravens. Guess what? It's totally excusable, he doesn't have NEAR the experience that Janobody has (starter or no starter).

I'll tell you what, When T.J. Yates is starting his 5th season in the league and is tossing 3 INTs in the playoffs, get back with me... Until then.. zip.

Corrosion
01-22-2012, 08:04 PM
:vincepalm: One of the reasons why Yates had to throw so much was because instead of having a lead (which we had before Jones "Jacobied" the ball) we had to play from behind.

Get a clue here.. You can't pin the loss on a rookie and I expect more out of my 5 year vets. I expect them to atleast know what to do in a certain situation that even high school football players know what to do in the same situation. GET AWAY FROM THE FOOTBALL!

That play didnt lose them the game .... but it made the task of winning a playoff game on the road all the more difficult and was in the end the difference in the final score.

Take that 7 points Jones gifted the Ravens away and at worst the Ravens are up 16-13 (since they went for it on 4th and goal and failed I'll give them a FG for that drive). The Texans only need 3 to tie rather than 7 .... there's a good chance that game goes to OT. At that point its anyones game .....

Yates made some bad decisions .... none of them gift wrapped 7 points to the opponent. (tho the Ravens other TD did result from a Yates INT at the Texans 34).

I have to think if the Texans have a healthy Schaub they win that game even with Jones gift to the Ravens ..... and with Yates 3 INT's they at least get to OT if Jones doesnt make that mistake.


Either way , Jones has worn out his welcome here.

Mr. White
01-22-2012, 08:06 PM
I expected him to miss wide open receivers, because he did that down the stretch. 3 INTs is inexcusable. Point blank. You can frame it however you like.

BTW I am not excusing Jacoby Jones' mistake. It was bonehead. But it did not cost us the game. TJ Yates did.

The Yates bashing is a red herring. If you can't make a case for a guy without bashing another one, then your case is weak.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 08:09 PM
I believe management will bring in another WR in the offseason by either draft or FA to actually challenge Jacoby. But he will likely be on the team next year, and will have his best statistical season of his career (as a #3 WR).

Janobody doesn't have a shot in hell at making this team next season. The Texans are going to make moves to replace him. There's not many "6th year projects" taking up roster spots in this league.

1st round pick will make the roster... could very well spend another pick on the position as well.

And if LeStar Jean stays healthy, (a 2nd year project) it'll almost guarantee that Janobody Jones has played his last down for the Houston Texans.

Goatcheese
01-22-2012, 08:14 PM
This forum has the annoying tendency to run 100% for/against people.

If they support you (Foster) you can do no wrong. If they turn on you (D-Rob, Jones, Okoye, Carr, etc.) you can do no right.

What people seem to be forgetting in all of their complaining is that Jones is a 3rd WR. If you're being honest, you can't even name most 3rd WRs in the NFL without looking it up. 3rd WRs are in that position because they're generally not that good; like Jones just isn't that good. They're behind at least 2 WR targets, and usually the #1 TE and RB.

I also think people underrate his blocking. He's played a major role in some big plays this year where other receivers (even fan faves like AJ) don't make the effort. That doesn't make him a good player, but it's a part of why he has a 90%+ chance of being a Texan next year.

He wasn't great returning punts this season, but the blocking he received was horrendous for the most part. How many of his big returns were called back because some jackanape threw a block in the back?

If you can afford to bring in a better FA WR or spend a draft pick on a potential upgrade, great. However, upgrading your 5th receiving option isn't exactly a top priority for any team in the NFL. Almost by default there is always going to be something bigger.

If they decide to draft AJ's successor this year and it bumps Jones down, or even off the Texan's roster, then I'm fine with that and happy with the upgrade. It's not a move I'm desperate for though, and Jones isn't the reason I would make it.

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 08:22 PM
He's in his 5th year...and was a starter. Hence 5th year starter. Does the semantics of what I typed really matter here? Fact is, he should know better...Jesus Christ. :gun:

He's a 5th year player. But this is his 2nd season starting (and that is only because AJ was out both years).

:vincepalm: That's EXACTLY what being a 3rd string rookie affords him. Dude what planet do you live on? Who do you think the players were more pissed at after the game.. Yates or Janobody Jones? If you gave them a truth serum (because they aren't going to publicly trash their own) I assure you, they'd pick Janobody Jones.

No being a rookie does not allow you to cost your team the game. Being a rookie allows you "You don't have to force anything. Just don't lose us the game." That means don't throw 3 INTs.

GTfreakO dude. You're funny.

There's a saying that gets tossed around from time to time. Every rookie QB is due to have a 3 INT game...well Yates had his against the Ravens. Guess what? It's totally excusable, he doesn't have NEAR the experience that Janobody has (starter or no starter).


More comedy.

I'll tell you what, When T.J. Yates is starting his 5th season and the league and is tossing 3 INTs in the playoffs, get back with me... Until then.. zip.

Someone should take their own advice. ;)

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 08:22 PM
This forum has the annoying tendency to run 100% for/against people.

If they support you (Foster) you can do no wrong. If they turn on you (D-Rob, Jones, Okoye, Carr, etc.) you can do no right.

What people seem to be forgetting in all of their complaining is that Jones is a 3rd WR. If you're being honest, you can't even name most 3rd WRs in the NFL without looking it up. 3rd WRs are in that position because they're generally not that good; like Jones just isn't that good. They're behind at least 2 WR targets, and usually the #1 TE and RB.

I also think people underrate his blocking. He's played a major role in some big plays this year where other receivers (even fan faves like AJ) don't make the effort. That doesn't make him a good player, but it's a part of why he has a 90%+ chance of being a Texan next year.

He wasn't great returning punts this season, but the blocking he received was horrendous for the most part. How many of his big returns were called back because some jackanape threw a block in the back?

If you can afford to bring in a better FA WR or spend a draft pick on a potential upgrade, great. However, upgrading your 5th receiving option isn't exactly a top priority for any team in the NFL. Almost by default there is always going to be something bigger.

If they decide to draft AJ's successor this year and it bumps Jones down, or even off the Texan's roster, then I'm fine with that and happy with the upgrade. It's not a move I'm desperate for though, and Jones isn't the reason I would make it.

Where your post misses is that Janobody wasn't supposed to be the #3 WR and he isn't paid like one either. The guy was supposed to be the #2 right now and he isn't living up to that. Also while it's true that you don't know who most #3s are...I do know that most #3s are either vets who used to be #1s or #2s (Hines Ward) or they're young up and comers who have the potential to be a #1 or #2. Now in which group does Janobody fit? Like I said earlier... There isn't a lot of "6th year projects" taking up a lot of spots on NFL rosters.

As far as us completely being in the tank for certain players or completely hating certain players and the players you listed.... (D-Rob, Jones, Okoye, Carr, etc.)

Look at the players that you listed and then tell me what every player NOT NAMED JONES has in common?

Gee, maybe there's a reason why the fans soured on those players...

ObsiWan
01-22-2012, 08:24 PM
Janobody doesn't have a shot in hell at making this team next season. The Texans are going to make moves to replace him. There's not many "6th year projects" taking up roster spots in this league.

1st round pick will make the roster... could very well spend another pick on the position as well.

And if LeStar Jean stays healthy, (a 2nd year project) it'll almost guarantee that Janobody Jones has played his last down for the Houston Texans.

While you might be right - and I sure wouldn't bet against it - that depends on Jacoby. Because J.Jones will be here come camp time. Whether or not he is here when the season starts is dependent on him and how he responds to the competition Smithiak brings in.

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 08:25 PM
The Yates bashing is a red herring. If you can't make a case for a guy without bashing another one, then your case is weak.

Really? You can't even make a case for it being Jacoby's fault. 3 ints are worse than 1 muffed punt. Especially when 1 of them led to 7 points and the other 2 of the INTs were in the 4th quarter in a 4 point game.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 08:28 PM
He's a 5th year player. But this is his 2nd season starting (and that is only because AJ was out both years).



No being a rookie does not allow you to cost your team the game. Being a rookie allows you "You don't have to force anything. Just don't lose us the game." That means don't throw 3 INTs.

GTfreakO dude. You're funny.



More comedy.



Someone should take their own advice. ;)

LMAO... you want to talk about comedy, you're the only one doing the comedy routine in this thread. People aren't laughing with you BTW

Yates being a rookie gives him a excuse...it's called lack of experience. Guess what caused the 3 INTs? I'll give you a hint, it was the lack of a word that starts with a "e" and ends with a "e". Which happens to be the same damn thing that Janobody has..(regardless of how many years he's started :vincepalm: which I already went over), yet he still is making rookie mistakes.

I realize you're related to Janobody or might even be dating him, but c'mon. Don't worry though..when he moves to his next team they'll be a place for you on their message board as well.

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 08:30 PM
Where your post misses is that Janobody wasn't supposed to be the #3 WR and he isn't paid like one either. The guy was supposed to be the #2 right now and he isn't living up to that. Also while it's true that you don't know who most #3s are...I do know that most #3s are either vets who used to be #1s or #2s (Hines Ward) or they're young up and comers who have the potential to be a #1 or #2. Now in which group does Janobody fit? Like I said earlier... There isn't a lot of "6th year projects" taking up a lot of spots on NFL rosters.

As far as us completely being in the tank for certain players or completely hating certain players and the players you listed.... (D-Rob, Jones, Okoye, Carr, etc.)

Look at the players that you listed and then tell me what every player NOT NAMED JONES has in common?

Gee, maybe there's a reason why the fans soured on those players...

Then why didn't he start a game until AJ went out? He was the #3 WR when AJ was starting. He went to #1 because he has the speed to stretch a defense (unlike Kevin Walter) who just started at #2 WR all season.

For comical purposes the answer to your question...
They're not with the Texans anymore (clever) ;)

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 08:34 PM
LMAO... you want to talk about comedy, you're the only one doing the comedy routine in this thread. People aren't laughing with you BTW

Yates being a rookie gives him a excuse...it's called lack of experience. Guess what caused the 3 INTs? I'll give you a hint, it was the lack of a word that starts with a "e" and ends with a "e". Which happens to be the same damn thing that Janobody has..(regardless of how many years he's started :vincepalm: which I already went over), yet he still is making rookie mistakes.

I realize you're related to Janobody or might even be dating him, but c'mon. Don't worry though..when he moves to his next team they'll be a place for you on their message board as well.

Lack of experience does not excuse 3 INTs. The game plan every week since Yates took over was "Don't cost us the game". 3 INTs costed us the game. Point blank.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 08:36 PM
Then why didn't he start a game until AJ went out? He was the #3 WR when AJ was in the game. He went to #1 because he has the speed to stretch a defense (unlike Kevin Walter) who just started at #2 WR all season.

LMAO, the fact that you're still hung up on this shows two things..

1.) you don't know how to comprehend what I typed (already said the player was in his 5th year and has "started" in this league)...that's what I meant by 5th year starter and already explained that.

2.) You have absolutely NO argument and you're just trying to run a dog and pony show with your. "Don't focus on this...focus over here, focus on the thing that's completely irrelevant and isn't bashing Janobody" routine.

It isn't working and Janobody still SUCKS.

Mr. White
01-22-2012, 08:37 PM
Really? You can't even make a case for it being Jacoby's fault. 3 ints are worse than 1 muffed punt. Especially when 1 of them led to 7 points and the other 2 of the INTs were in the 4th quarter in a 4 point game.

First a red herring and now a strawman argument. Feel free to go through the thread and quote me where I say that the loss is entirely his fault.

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 08:41 PM
LMAO, the fact that you're still hung up on this shows two things..

1.) you don't know how to comprehend what I typed (already said the player was in his 5th year and has "started" in this league)...that's what I meant by 5th year starter and already explained that.

2.) You have absolutely NO argument and you're just trying to run a dog and pony show with your. "Don't focus on this...focus over here, focus on the thing that's completely irrelevant and isn't bashing Janobody" routine.

It isn't working and Janobody still SUCKS.

You don't even know what my argument is?

Your emotions cloud your judgement (female trait). My point was that Jacoby made a boneheaded mistake. But this didn't cost us the game. Also he's a #3 WR that has been produce decent numbers.

2009 437 yards 6 TD
2010 562 yards 3 TD
2011 512 yards 2 TD

He is not the best receiver. But that looks consistent to me. I don't think many teams ask for more from a 4th or 5th option at best.

gary
01-22-2012, 08:41 PM
Any QB should know not keep going to the same man.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 08:42 PM
Lack of experience does not excuse 3 INTs. The game plan every week since Yates took over was "Don't cost us the game". 3 INTs costed us the game. Point blank.

:gun: The #1 precursor to a rookie throwing 3 INTs, is a lack of experience...what the hell do you mean it's not a excuse.


You know how big of a joke your argument it. Let me spell it out for you.

You're going out of your way to hang a rookie 3rd string QB who has little experience and your trying to hold his feet to the fire and hold him to the same expectations of a experienced vet..

While in the same breath you're making every excuse for a "experienced vet" and want us to treat him with kid gloves like he's a "3rd string rookie player". :rolleyes:

Something doesn't compute here and there's obviously a bias/alternative motivating factor for your ridiculous support of Janobody Jones.

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 08:42 PM
First a red herring and now a strawman argument. Feel free to go through the thread and quote me where I say that the loss is entirely his fault.
That is my argument that I've maintained all along. You go back and read mine first.

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 08:43 PM
:gun: The #1 precursor to a rookie throwing the INTs, is a lack of experience...what the hell do you mean it's not a excuse.


You know how big of a joke your argument it. Let me spell it out for you.

You're going out of your way to hang a rookie 3rd string QB who has little experience and your trying to hold his feet to the fire and expectations that he should play at the level of a experience vet..

While in the same breath you're making every excuse for a "experienced vet" and want us to treat him with kid gloves like he's a "3rd string rookie player". :rolleyes:

Something doesn't compute here and there's obviously a bias/alternative motivating factor for your ridiculous support of Janobody Jones.

You just want a scapegoat. Blame whoever you want. I know why we lost the game.

Mr. White
01-22-2012, 08:44 PM
That is my argument that I've maintained all along. You go back and read mine first.

Didn't think so.

ObsiWan
01-22-2012, 08:45 PM
Any QB should know not keep going to the same man.

Thank you Gary!

And know how to go through his progressions. Yates locked on to the first option and never looked in another direction. That's how the Ravens were able to abuse him. They just watched his eyes.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 08:48 PM
You just want a scapegoat. Blame whoever you want. I know why we lost the game.

WRONG.....again.


I washed my hands of Janobody LONG BEFORE that game even kicked off. The only thing that happened in that game was Janobody confirmed my opinion of him. This doesn't have crap to do with a "scapegoat".

I thought Janobody was a crappy player before the game and was sure of it after the game.

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 08:52 PM
WRONG.....again.


I washed my hands of Janobody LONG BEFORE that game even kicked off. The only thing that happened in that game was Janobody confirmed my opinion of him. This doesn't have crap to do with a "scapegoat".

I thought Janobody was a crappy player before the game and was sure of it after the game.

It doesn't seem like it because you seem to have deep emotional ties to him. That's fine. He'll probably be back next season though. I do think management will bring in another WR (either FA or draft) to compete for the #2 spot. Jacoby has always been a #3 WR in book anyway. He has good speed, but would be better suited if we had better #2 option that could step up and be a #1 if we needed him to.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 09:04 PM
It doesn't seem like it because you seem to have deep emotional ties to him. That's fine. He'll probably be back next season though. I do think management will bring in another WR (either FA or draft) to compete for the #2 spot. Jacoby has always been a #3 WR in book anyway. He has good speed, but would be better suited if we had better #2 option that could step up and be a #1 if we needed him to.

:spit: What the hell are you talking about? The only person who seems to have deep emotional ties to him is you, with your constant excuse making for him. I could literally not care less about the guy.

And why do you keep thinking he's going to produce at the #3 spot and put up great #s there? Newsflash...that IS what Jacoby has been here pretty much the entire time. He hasn't beaten out Walter....the guy HAS been and has played the #3 role already. So I highly doubt he's going to start producing at a position that he's already failed to produce at in the past.

If this management knows what they're doing (and I think they do), he isn't going to be on the opening roster next season.

PapaL
01-22-2012, 09:09 PM
Now that I saw another muffed punt it reminds me...I hope Jacoby is gone next year.

That is all. Carry on.

DocBar
01-22-2012, 09:10 PM
Now that I saw another muffed punt it reminds me...I hope Jacoby is gone next year.

That is all. Carry on.I was thinking the same exact thing!!

GuerillaBlack
01-22-2012, 09:20 PM
Any QB should know not keep going to the same man.

Dude was going against a top three defense, in his eighth game as an NFL QB, on the road and in the playoffs.

Any punt returner should know to get the hell away from the ball after you missed the first catch and it bounces up off the ground.

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 09:22 PM
Dude was going against a top three defense, in his eighth game as an NFL QB, on the road and in the playoffs.

Any punt returner should know to get the hell away from the ball after you missed the first catch and it bounces up off the ground.

You're right. But a QB is not supposed to throw to the other team regardless of stature.

PapaL
01-22-2012, 09:29 PM
Another muffed punt by the same guy. Didn't know we traded Jacoby to the 49ers that fast. Good move Rick!

**excuse me** this guy caught the second one THEN fumbled. He's obviously better.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 09:34 PM
You're right. But a QB is not supposed to throw to the other team regardless of stature.

Here's a question and be completely honest... What relation are you to Janobody Jones? Are you his aunt, uncle, sister, brother, mother, cousin.....lover etc?




Oh by the way, I wasn't aware we traded Janobody to the 9ers! :spit:

TheMatrix31
01-22-2012, 09:34 PM
SMH. Alex Smith should be treated like crap too.

ObsiWan
01-22-2012, 09:45 PM
Dude was going against a top three defense, in his eighth game as an NFL QB, on the road and in the playoffs.

Any punt returner should know to get the hell away from the ball after you missed the first catch and it bounces up off the ground.

Your first statement is an excuse.
Your second is absolutely correct.

Bottom line:
Both Jacoby and Yates screwed the pooch.

Marcus
01-22-2012, 09:53 PM
Your first statement is an excuse.
Your second is absolutely correct.

Bottom line:
Both Jacoby and Yates screwed the pooch.

Yes, but we can forgive Yates, because he's a rookie that was expected to make rookie mistakes.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 09:53 PM
Your first statement is an excuse.
Your second is absolutely correct.

Bottom line:
Both Jacoby and Yates screwed the pooch.

LOL, who said it wasn't a excuse?


Which one is more excusable... A 5th round rookie has a stinker of a game or a 5th year vet still doesn't know the golden rule of, get the hell away from a muffed punt?

Nobody here is trying to act like Yates had a good game or is trying to act like he didn't help cost us the game. But to criticize him as a way to "excuse" what Jones did is completely ridiculous. Rookie returners don't even do what Jacoby did.

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 09:56 PM
LOL, who said it wasn't a excuse?


Which one is more excusable... A 5th round rookie has a stinker of a game or a 5th year vet still doesn't know the golden rule of, get the hell away from a muffed punt?

Nobody here is trying to act like Yates had a good game or is trying to act like he didn't help cost us the game. But to criticize him as a way to "excuse" what Jones did is completely ridiculous.

I don't understand where you got this idea from. Nobody tried to "excuse" Jacoby. How about this...neither is excusable.

Anyway, let's be realistic. A rookie QB knows no to throw it to the other team. Just like a 5 year vet knows to "stay the hell away" from a punt that bounced inside the 10. There is no excuse for either. Both should be held accountable for what they did regardless of stature or "golden rule". We had 4 TOs caused by 2 people. We lost the game because of it.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 10:00 PM
I don't understand where you got this idea from. How about this...neither is excusable.

Again.... aunt, uncle, sister, brother, mother, cousin.....lover?

Which is it?

PapaL
01-22-2012, 10:12 PM
Again.... aunt, uncle, sister, brother, mother, cousin.....lover?

Which is it?

I think it's Balls To The Face Jones himself.

Premier
01-22-2012, 10:17 PM
http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1444559649/image.jpg

ObsiWan
01-22-2012, 10:22 PM
Yes, but we can forgive Yates, because he's a rookie that was expected to make rookie mistakes.

I'm sorry, but that does not compute. Why would you play someone you EXPECT to screw up??

If you expect your QB to screw up, then you play someone else.

If you go ahead and play him, then that means, to me, that you expect him NOT to make mistakes. You may not expect him to make big plays and win the game for you; but you sure as hell don't expect him to be a significant factor - to the tune of 3 picks - in your loss.

There are no excuses for either of them.

CloakNNNdagger
01-22-2012, 10:26 PM
Jacoby has been given a SITUATIONAL PUNT RETURN TRAINING VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqpn2oyEaX8&feature=related) to study during the offseason. He's been told to memorize it............or else!

bckey
01-22-2012, 10:26 PM
I'm sorry, but that does not compute. Why would you play someone you EXPECT to screw up??

If you expect your QB to screw up, then you play someone else.

Not Kubiak. He is stubborn to a fault.

ObsiWan
01-22-2012, 10:31 PM
Jacoby has been given a SITUATIONAL PUNT RETURN TRAINING VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqpn2oyEaX8&feature=related) to study during the offseason. He's been told to memorize it............or else!


Hey, not to get off topic, but was that Connor Barwin presenting at the music awards at the beginning of the video...??

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT6DvBtR3cx4n6kCKEgF3iSX9yrOtdaC jV-1lGraL-RjlhGS6iAhttp://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTb1Xmp61K464OW7X1kTP4UtN1KVWEJE RQgQEzqilt3ZN5m1k3d

...just askin'...
:turtle:

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 10:33 PM
I'm sorry, but that does not compute. Why would you play someone you EXPECT to screw up??

If you expect your QB to screw up, then you play someone else.

If you go ahead and play him, then that means, to me, that you expect him NOT to make mistakes. You may not expect him to make big plays and win the game for you; but you sure as hell don't expect him to be a significant factor - to the tune of 3 picks - in your loss.

There are no excuses for either of them.

Oh, I'm sorry.... I didn't know Yates was our first string starting QB. :vincepalm:


When you're down to your 3rd string QB, you play what you have and hope for the best. LOL, we had a 3rd string rookie QB (who regardless of what people think is GOING TO MAKE MISTAKES..it's part of being a rookie), a horse farmer backing him up, and another has been behind the horse farmer.

We were ****ed at the QB position this season. So what do you want?

What we didn't have was a 3rd string returner.. So did Yates make mistakes...yep he did. Guess what? I can forgive him, because he barely has any experience and hopefully he gets better. I CAN NOT forgive Jacoby and after 5 seasons I KNOW he's not going to get better.

ObsiWan
01-22-2012, 10:35 PM
Oh, I'm sorry.... I didn't know Yates was our first string starting QB. :vincepalm:


When you're down to your 3rd string QB, you play what you have and hope for the best. LOL, we had a 3rd string rookie QB (who regardless of what people think is GOING TO MAKE MISTAKES..it's part of being a rookie), a horse farmer backing him up, and another has been behind the horse farmer.

We were ****ed at the QB position this season. So what do you want?

What we didn't have was a 3rd string returner.. So did Yates make mistakes...yep he did. Guess what, I can forgive him, because he barely has any experience and hopefully he gets better. I CAN NOT forgive Jacoby and after 5 seasons I KNOW he's not going to get better.

So be it.
That's in your heart.

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 10:41 PM
So be it.
That's in your heart.

Geez this guy swears he has no deep emotional connection to Jacoby. If I'm aunt, uncle, sister, brother, mother, cousin.....lover, he must be scorned ex-lover/estranged family member or something. This guy has some deep hate issues. I think he needs a hug or something.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 10:47 PM
So be it.
That's in your heart.

Doesn't have anything to do with my "heart". WTH are you talking about?


I'm a football fan, I enjoy watching my team win. I don't want dumbasses playing for my team who consistently make mistakes that hurt my team. Especially when they've been doing it for 5 seasons and haven't shown any improvement.

It's nothing personal, Jacoby's just a crappy football player and receiver.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 10:50 PM
Geez this guy swears he has no deep emotional connection to Jacoby. If I'm aunt, uncle, sister, brother, mother, cousin.....lover, he must be scorned ex-lover/estranged family member or something. This guy has some deep hate issues. I think he needs a hug or something.

LMAO, nice try Jacoby.. err whoever you are. BTW, you've been avoiding that question like the plague


And AGAIN, I have no deep emotional ties to you err, I mean Jacoby. I'm not the one making every excuse under the sun for him, trying to divert attention off of him, or the one that's completely butthurt that people are talking bad about him. You are and I know you're related to him or know him some how. We've dealt with people like you in the past and it's completely obvious.

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 10:55 PM
LMAO, nice try Jacoby.. err whoever you are. BTW, you've been avoiding that question like the plague


And AGAIN, I have no deep emotional ties to you err, I mean Jacoby. I'm not the one making every excuse under the sun for him, trying to divert attention off of him, or the one that's completely butthurt that people are talking bad about him. You are and I know you're related to him or know him some how. We've dealt with people like you in the past and it's completely obvious.

Yeah but apparently you are butthurt by anybody that has an opinion other than "he sucks". Or that might be hemorrhoids. Either way you should get that problem checked out. ;)

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 11:02 PM
Yeah but apparently you are butthurt by anybody that has an opinion other than "he sucks". Or that might be hemorrhoids. Either way you should get that problem checked out. ;)

No spin (you muffed that one just as bad as Jacoby)...but nope. I am not butthurt if someone thinks he doesn't suck. That's your opinion if you want it. Just don't quote my post and try to tell me what to think about him or try to tell me what my opinion should be.

So try again... F. or R.O.J.

ObsiWan
01-22-2012, 11:03 PM
Doesn't have anything to do with my "heart". WTH are you talking about?


I'm a football fan, I enjoy watching my team win. I don't want dumbasses playing for my team who consistently make mistakes that hurt my team. Especially when they've been doing it for 5 seasons and haven't shown any improvement.

It's nothing personal, Jacoby's just a crappy football player and receiver.

You're the one who used the term "forgive". Forgiveness comes from the heart. That's where that came from.

No one has argued that we should be satisfied with Jacoby at #3 (or Walter @ #2 for that matter). I'm ALL for upgrading both spots as well as punt returner spot. Jacoby is way underachieving in the WR role and too inconsistent in the PR role.

We thought/were hoping that Trindon Holliday would take Jones' PR spot but he couldn't do it. We thought LeStar Jean or Bryant Johnson would take Jones' WR spot but one didn't stay healthy and the other didn't step up.

So the search continues.... Hopefully, this offseason we have more success upgrading both spots.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 11:09 PM
You're the one who used the term "forgive". Forgiveness comes from the heart. That's where that came from.

In the context that I used it in...it has NOTHING to do with the "heart"..

for·give (fr-gv, fôr-)
v. for·gave (-gv), for·giv·en (-gvn), for·giv·ing, for·gives
v.tr.
1. To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.
2. To renounce anger or resentment against.
3. To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example).
v.intr.
To accord forgiveness.

I'm not going to excuse him from the mistake he made, becuase there was no excuse for it.

No one has argued that we should be satisfied with Jacoby at #3 (or Walter @ #2 for that matter). I'm ALL for upgrading both spots as well as punt returner spot. Jacoby is way underachieving in the WR role and too inconsistent in the PR role.

Really.. You might want to go back and read. That's EXACTLY what "F. or R.O.J." was trying to argue.

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 11:32 PM
In the context that I used it in...it has NOTHING to do with the "heart"..

for·give (fr-gv, fôr-)
v. for·gave (-gv), for·giv·en (-gvn), for·giv·ing, for·gives
v.tr.
1. To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.
2. To renounce anger or resentment against.
3. To absolve from payment of (a debt, for example).
v.intr.
To accord forgiveness.

I'm not going to excuse him from the mistake he made, becuase there was no excuse for it.



Really.. You might want to go back and read. That's EXACTLY what "F. or R.O.J." was trying to argue.

Well apparently you don't realize you have to find it in your heart to "excuse for fault or an offense". That's usually how forgiveness works. I don't even think he objected to you. He said that's your deal. It should be left at that. No reply necessary.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 11:33 PM
Well apparently you don't realize you have to find it in your heart to "excuse for fault or an offense". That's usually how it works. I don't even think he objected to you. He said that's your deal. It should be left at that. No reply necessary.

You act like I care about your biased opinion F. or R.O.J. :gun:

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 11:37 PM
You act like I care about your biased opinion F. or R.O.J. :gun:

Irony at it's best.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 11:38 PM
Hmm, apparently somebody doesn't know the definition of "biased".

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 11:46 PM
Apparently you don't because all opinions are essentially biased. At least I use facts instead of emotions to develop my own. To each his own.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 11:47 PM
Apparently you don't because all opinions are essentially biased.

:spit:

cbs1507
01-22-2012, 11:51 PM
To each his own.

Carr Bombed
01-22-2012, 11:54 PM
To each his own.

Whatever F. or R.O.J.

Corrosion
01-23-2012, 12:54 AM
.... Jacoby Jones has worn out his welcome with the Houston Texans management and their fans .... I'd be almost shocked to see him suit up for another regular season game for this team.

You can count on either or FA or high draft choices being spent on the position .... and LeStar Jean coming back from the IR along with cap space making Jones expendable.

TheMatrix31
01-23-2012, 05:10 AM
This thread should be ****ing murdered.

I dont even want to see this guy's name on my laptop screen. And the discussion is just stupid.

rickyb
01-23-2012, 06:33 AM
W

PS
Jacoby Jones had ZERO targets in the 2011 playoffs. ZERO. So to have disdain for somebody that doesn't even get the ball thrown his direction is ridiculous.

Did you miss the part where I began saying that I had seen enough of Jacoby before the season even started? And where I followed up by saying that Jacoby had his chances while AJ was injured? He had more than a fair shake to disprove his doubters.

steelbtexan
01-23-2012, 08:32 AM
Totally do not agree with this. Knee Jerks are not good for your team.

Are we going to cut Ben Tate because he fumbled on the goal line? Luckily it was recovered by Wade Smith & we scored on that play.

Are we going to cut Eric Winston because he gets beat time-to-time & our QBs get lit up?

Are we going to cut Demps for missing a tackle that would have prevented a goal line TD?

Are we going to cut J.Allen for getting beat & turned around on a TD score in a play-off game?

If Jacoby's production through out the season does not warrant bringing him back, then we don't bring him back. If he is beat out in training camp by superior talent, then we don't bring him back.

At the same time, if a coach continues to send a player out there & can not correct his mistakes, should we bring that coach back?

If you make mistakes....

your ****ing human.

5 yrs and very little improvement. It's not just 1 mistake. JJ represents the old party on culture that used to be on this team. This is not a knee jerk reaction. Ask yourself if the Texans can improve the WR2/PR position in FA/draft? It's time to move on from JJ.

Times have changed for the better. JJ just doesn't fit in anymore. This is a hardnosed football team. Does this describe JJ's mentality when it comes to his profession?

2012Champs
01-23-2012, 09:03 AM
I have no problem with JJ being cut but the defense of how the rest of the team played and all of the excuses are laughable at best. Also the thought that JJ was the reason, the main reason or carries the majority of the blame is also a joke.


1. If your team cant overcome a 4 point deficiet 5 minutes into the game no matter how it happend you werent going to make it far into the playoffs

2. JJ fumble cost us 7 points

3. Yates threw 3 picks that cost us 10 points directly and the potential for points of offense

4. Yates could have easily had 5-6 picks total if the Ravens could have held on to the ball even though they were dropped it still hurt our drives

5. Rackers missed a FG and in turn gave the ravens a FG 6 point swing

6. Turk muffed a punt that also led to 3 points

7. The ravens put the ball on the ground many times but we had zero take aways

8. We didnt score in the second half

steelbtexan
01-23-2012, 09:07 AM
I have no problem with JJ being cut but the defense of how the rest of the team played and all of the excuses are laughable at best. Also the thought that JJ was the reason, the main reason or carries the majority of the blame is also a joke.


1. If your team cant overcome a 4 point deficiet 5 minutes into the game no matter how it happend you werent going to make it far into the playoffs

2. JJ fumble cost us 7 points

3. Yates threw 3 picks that cost us 10 points directly and the potential for points of offense

4. Yates could have easily had 5-6 picks total if the Ravens could have held on to the ball even though they were dropped it still hurt our drives

5. Rackers missed a FG and in turn gave the ravens a FG 6 point swing

6. Turk muffed a punt that also led to 3 points

7. The ravens put the ball on the ground many times but we had zero take aways

8. We didnt score in the second half

Agree with all of this,

5 yrs of SOS with JJ is enough.

Party on JJ

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 01:10 PM
Did you miss the part where I began saying that I had seen enough of Jacoby before the season even started? And where I followed up by saying that Jacoby had his chances while AJ was injured? He had more than a fair shake to disprove his doubters.

That is not an unbiased judgement though. First of all Jacoby Jones is a #3 WR.

Let's got to the numbers which are unbiased. Find me a #3 WR with better numbers...

2009 27 catches 437 yards 6 TD
2010 51 catches 562 yards 3 TD
2011 31 catches 512 yards 2 TD

I don't think a team can ask for more from a #3WR that is a 4th or 5th option at best.

Has he put up numbers while Andre was out? Yes and no.

From the 2011 season, he had 19 catches 377 yards 2 TD in his 10 weeks with Matt Schaub at QB. He had 12 catches 135 yards 0 TD with TJ Yates.

Yes he was putting a decent numbers when Matt Schaub was at QB. No he wasn't putting up numbers with TJ Yates. You can draw your own conclusions. But I have point out on the other MB, that Yates has tunnel vision and overlooks receivers. That observation came into fruition against Balitmore.

BTW He had zero targets while the #1 options on passing plays had 23 targets in the game against Baltimore (zero targets the whole playoffs). So you can make your own conclusion, but based on my actual observation his lack of production is because the QB throwing the ball for the Texans at the end of the year just lacked field vision.

These are the unbiased numbers. Numbers don't have an opinion. Numbers don't have emotions. Most importantly numbers never lie. Based on the numbers, I think Jacoby is a decent #3WR, and he is fit to be a 4th or 5th option in this offense (like he has been). He was playing well when Schaub was healthy, and his number went down drastically after Schaub's injury.

Blake
01-23-2012, 01:30 PM
J-Jo 12 aint going anywhere. From what I can gather, it will cost too much to release him and sign a replacement, even from the college ranks.

Jones cap figure was $617,280 in 2011. If you cut Jones you are looking at 2.4 million in dead cap as he has $3 million guaranteed. If you keep him you will probably be paying upwards of 4 million for the 2012 season. I wouldnt expect him to get his 3rd year money if he doesnt play out of his mind next season.

PapaL
01-23-2012, 07:13 PM
I haven't seen anyone muff a punt yet today BUT I still want this dude gone.

Flail your arm in the arm and run your away from the ball. Is that too had to do? I'm sure 99% of us here could have accomplished that.

steelbtexan
01-23-2012, 07:16 PM
That is not an unbiased judgement though. First of all Jacoby Jones is a #3 WR.

Let's got to the numbers which are unbiased. Find me a #3 WR with better numbers...

2009 27 catches 437 yards 6 TD
2010 51 catches 562 yards 3 TD
2011 31 catches 512 yards 2 TD

I don't think a team can ask for more from a #3WR that is a 4th or 5th option at best.

Has he put up numbers while Andre was out? Yes and no.

From the 2011 season, he had 19 catches 377 yards 2 TD in his 10 weeks with Matt Schaub at QB. He had 12 catches 135 yards 0 TD with TJ Yates.

Yes he was putting a decent numbers when Matt Schaub was at QB. No he wasn't putting up numbers with TJ Yates. You can draw your own conclusions. But I have point out on the other MB, that Yates has tunnel vision and overlooks receivers. That observation came into fruition against Balitmore.

BTW He had zero targets while the #1 options on passing plays had 23 targets in the game against Baltimore (zero targets the whole playoffs). So you can make your own conclusion, but based on my actual observation his lack of production is because the QB throwing the ball for the Texans at the end of the year just lacked field vision.

These are the unbiased numbers. Numbers don't have an opinion. Numbers don't have emotions. Most importantly numbers never lie. Based on the numbers, I think Jacoby is a decent #3WR, and he is fit to be a 4th or 5th option in this offense (like he has been). He was playing well when Schaub was healthy, and his number went down drastically after Schaub's injury.

My eyes tell me JJ a scared to go across the middle and is only an average at best PR. My eyes tell me that JJ hasn't been the same since Hunter (the Punter) Smith broke JJ's collarbone during the 3rd game of his rookie season.

Could the reason JJ got 0 targets during the postseason be that Yates didn't trust JJ? (Rounding off routes, running wrong routes, aligator arms across the middle)

Continue on with your #'s thingy. The # I want to know is how many drinks did JJ have before he was found passed out at the wheel of his car at a redlight on Westheimer? That could be a large part of JJ's problem. LOL

thunderkyss
01-23-2012, 07:36 PM
That play didnt lose them the game .... but it made the task of winning a playoff game on the road all the more difficult and was in the end the difference in the final score.

Take that 7 points Jones gifted the Ravens away and at worst the Ravens are up 16-13 (since they went for it on 4th and goal and failed I'll give them a FG for that drive). The Texans only need 3 to tie rather than 7 .... there's a good chance that game goes to OT. At that point its anyones game .....

Yates made some bad decisions .... none of them gift wrapped 7 points to the opponent. (tho the Ravens other TD did result from a Yates INT at the Texans 34).

I have to think if the Texans have a healthy Schaub they win that game even with Jones gift to the Ravens ..... and with Yates 3 INT's they at least get to OT if Jones doesnt make that mistake.


Either way , Jones has worn out his welcome here.
Sure sounds like Ray got "it" to me:

"There is no one man who has ever lost a game," Lewis said. "Don't you ever drop your head; we win as a team, we lose as a team. There is no 'Billy is the fault, Billy missed the kick.' It happens. Move on like a man, because life doesn't stop."

"God has never made a mistake. Ever," Lewis said, according to the Sun. "Somebody is going to feel like this tomorrow, and somebody is going to feel like this in two weeks in the Super Bowl. And whomever wins it, that's their year. That's a fact, and there ain't nothing nobody else can do about it. That's the irony of sports. There is a winner, there's a loser, and when you lose, you've got to suck it up like a man and say 'You know what, Father? If it's your will, so be it. As a man you got to keep moving, and a team keep building, remembering this taste."

I agree with 52

thunderkyss
01-23-2012, 07:41 PM
The Yates bashing is a red herring. If you can't make a case for a guy without bashing another one, then your case is weak.

It's not about Yates bashing. It doesn't make sense to think Jacoby's indiscretion had more to do with the outcome of that game than Tj's 3 turnovers.

Fine... we expected Yates to play like he did. That does not mean his play did not affect the outcome of the game.

& I'm not blaming Yates for losing the game. We win as a team, we lose as a team. Which means I blame Kubiak.

thunderkyss
01-23-2012, 07:48 PM
Yes, but we can forgive Yates, because he's a rookie that was expected to make rookie mistakes.

Sorry, we don't cut rookies slack around here.

See the "Kareem's plight" thread.

thunderkyss
01-23-2012, 08:03 PM
5 yrs and very little improvement. It's not just 1 mistake. JJ represents the old party on culture that used to be on this team. This is not a knee jerk reaction. Ask yourself if the Texans can improve the WR2/PR position in FA/draft? It's time to move on from JJ.

Times have changed for the better. JJ just doesn't fit in anymore. This is a hardnosed football team. Does this describe JJ's mentality when it comes to his profession?

KDub is the #2 WR on this team & I would love to upgrade at that position.

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1444559649/image.jpg

I love me some Jacoby.

Now, Robert Meachum may not muff a punt. But he has yet to develop any more than Jacoby Jones. There are some here who believe Meachum would be an upgrade.

I'd love to see Jaboby's numbers with a big armed QB... in a pass first system... someone who can get the ball over the top, let him run under it.....

Robert Meachum ain't going to break any tackles, or make anybody miss.

But he was a 1st round pick. Jacoby was a 3rd.

Carr Bombed
01-23-2012, 08:04 PM
Sorry, we don't cut rookies slack around here.

See the "Kareem's plight" thread.

If you think people are pissed because of that "one play" then you completely missed the boat in this argument and thread.

This has NOT been a "knee jerk" reaction thread and to even try to begin to paint it as such is completely disingenuous.

You want me to pull up the posts I made when we re-signed Jacoby? I can and then you can read them and then you can try to tell us how we're "knee jerking".

This is a "that's it, I've had enough of this clown" (or hell, even a "I told you so") thread. There is nothing "knee jerk" about it.

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 08:10 PM
My eyes tell me JJ a scared to go across the middle and is only an average at best PR. My eyes tell me that JJ hasn't been the same since Hunter (the Punter) Smith broke JJ's collarbone during the 3rd game of his rookie season.

Maybe. It's a tough league, most WR are afraid to take a big hit over the middle. Who can blame them? Anyway, that is an intangible that is not required, nor is it present in most receivers in the league (especially #3 WRs like Jacoby).


Could the reason JJ got 0 targets during the postseason be that Yates didn't trust JJ?(Rounding off routes, running wrong routes, aligator arms across the middle)
Maybe. But my observation leads me to believe that Yates had a confidence issue (for whatever reason). Down the stretch he would only check down to TE or RB and not get receivers involved. During the playoffs he would only throw to the #1 option on the play. This can be an implication of him not trusting his reads and being afraid to look at other options. Please keep in mind that Jacoby was not the only person who suffered from lack of targets. To keep the defense honest, you have to utilize other options.

thunderkyss
01-23-2012, 08:13 PM
This is a "that's it, I've had enough of this clown" (or hell, even a "I told you so") thread. There is nothing "knee jerk" about it.

& I've said I don't have a problem with that. I understand & honestly it wouldn't hurt, too much (I do own a Steel Blue #12) if Jacoby wasn't on the team next season.

But to blame the loss of that game on Jacoby..... c'mon

4 minutes into the game. This team has been about overcoming every step of the way. We couldn't overcome a 4 point deficit with 55 minutes?

c'mon man.

Carr Bombed
01-23-2012, 08:14 PM
That is not an unbiased judgement though. First of all Jacoby Jones is a #3 WR.

Let's got to the numbers which are unbiased. Find me a #3 WR with better numbers...

2009 27 catches 437 yards 6 TD
2010 51 catches 562 yards 3 TD
2011 31 catches 512 yards 2 TD

I don't think a team can ask for more from a #3WR that is a 4th or 5th option at best.

Has he put up numbers while Andre was out? Yes and no.

From the 2011 season, he had 19 catches 377 yards 2 TD in his 10 weeks with Matt Schaub at QB. He had 12 catches 135 yards 0 TD with TJ Yates.

Yes he was putting a decent numbers when Matt Schaub was at QB. No he wasn't putting up numbers with TJ Yates. You can draw your own conclusions. But I have point out on the other MB, that Yates has tunnel vision and overlooks receivers. That observation came into fruition against Balitmore.

BTW He had zero targets while the #1 options on passing plays had 23 targets in the game against Baltimore (zero targets the whole playoffs). So you can make your own conclusion, but based on my actual observation his lack of production is because the QB throwing the ball for the Texans at the end of the year just lacked field vision.

These are the unbiased numbers. Numbers don't have an opinion. Numbers don't have emotions. Most importantly numbers never lie. Based on the numbers, I think Jacoby is a decent #3WR, and he is fit to be a 4th or 5th option in this offense (like he has been). He was playing well when Schaub was healthy, and his number went down drastically after Schaub's injury.

LMAO! Are you really going to try to pass those #s off as "good production"?

So in 10 weeks (with Andre sitting out the majority of the time), you're trying to say that less than 2 catches a game and 37 receiving yards is good production? :ahhaha:

Again...our BACKUP TE had a bigger impact in the receiving game than Jacoby (who only had to compete with K. Walter) did.


Stop trying to pass crap off like it was good football play or good production. There's UDFAs who can surpass that production.

Carr Bombed
01-23-2012, 08:22 PM
& I've said I don't have a problem with that. I understand & honestly it wouldn't hurt, too much (I do own a Steel Blue #12) if Jacoby wasn't on the team next season.

But to blame the loss of that game on Jacoby..... c'mon

4 minutes into the game. This team has been about overcoming every step of the way. We couldn't overcome a 4 point deficit with 55 minutes?

c'mon man.

I've already said Jacoby wasn't the only reason for the loss, but guess what.

the title of this thread is called "Jacoby's gotta go" and the discussion in this thread isn't just about that one play.. It's about how crappy and inconsistent he's been since he got here.


And shoot me if I'm not willing to write off a 5th round rookie when he exceeded all expectations this season despite his poor game. (Yates is someone I'm still willing to work with..like I was with Jacoby his first 3 seasons in the league...what year is he in now?)

This isn't a Jacoby vs Yates thread like some of y'all have allowed "F.O.R.O.J." to spin it into. It's a Jacoby needs to go thread..and he needs to go not just because of that one play, but because of MANY of the piss poor plays that he's committed in his now 6th year career. Sorry, I have no patience for 6th year projects.


You know what would be a "knee jerk reaction thread"? If after Yates' struggles against Baltimore's defense (who made Tom freaking Brady say that "he sucks") somebody started a "TJ Yates' gotta go" thread. When someone starts a "Jacoby's gotta go" thread, there's nothing knee jerk about it. It's simply the truth and was a thread that was long overdue. At some time the gravy train has to pull into the station and either Jacoby has to start earning his way or get off. I think it's time for him to exit left.

rickyb
01-23-2012, 08:24 PM
That is not an unbiased judgement though. First of all Jacoby Jones is a #3 WR.

Let's got to the numbers which are unbiased. Find me a #3 WR with better numbers...

2009 27 catches 437 yards 6 TD
2010 51 catches 562 yards 3 TD
2011 31 catches 512 yards 2 TD

I don't think a team can ask for more from a #3WR that is a 4th or 5th option at best.

Has he put up numbers while Andre was out? Yes and no.

From the 2011 season, he had 19 catches 377 yards 2 TD in his 10 weeks with Matt Schaub at QB. He had 12 catches 135 yards 0 TD with TJ Yates.

Yes he was putting a decent numbers when Matt Schaub was at QB. No he wasn't putting up numbers with TJ Yates. You can draw your own conclusions. But I have point out on the other MB, that Yates has tunnel vision and overlooks receivers. That observation came into fruition against Balitmore.

BTW He had zero targets while the #1 options on passing plays had 23 targets in the game against Baltimore (zero targets the whole playoffs). So you can make your own conclusion, but based on my actual observation his lack of production is because the QB throwing the ball for the Texans at the end of the year just lacked field vision.

These are the unbiased numbers. Numbers don't have an opinion. Numbers don't have emotions. Most importantly numbers never lie. Based on the numbers, I think Jacoby is a decent #3WR, and he is fit to be a 4th or 5th option in this offense (like he has been). He was playing well when Schaub was healthy, and his number went down drastically after Schaub's injury.

So your argument is Yates is the problem, not #12. I see. How, then, do you explain the prior 4 years of JJ's body of work?

Rhetorical question. I do not care to debate. You have your opinion about Yates, I have mine about JJ.

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 08:28 PM
If you think people are pissed because of that "one play" then you completely missed the boat in this argument and thread.

This has NOT been a "knee jerk" reaction thread and to even try to begin to paint it as such is completely disingenuous.

You want me to pull up the posts I made when we re-signed Jacoby? I can and then you can read them and then you can try to tell us how we're "knee jerking".

This is a "that's it, I've had enough of this clown" (or hell, even a "I told you so") thread. There is nothing "knee jerk" about it.

Threads like this one only show up when he has a bad game (Oakland, Baltimore), or makes a mistake (drop TD pass in Cincy). I would say that is "knee jerk". I know you've "had enough of this clown" but there is due process in the NFL. That means management will likely bring in a WR to challenge him and Kevin Walter for the #2 spot, if it is feasible to move on they will. But that is unlikely seeing that his cap # was 600K this season and his contract was $3 million guaranteed. No point in carrying $2.4 million in dead cap space for a "knee jerk" reaction. So I'm guessing he will probably be back next year.

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 08:36 PM
So your argument is Yates is the problem, not #12. I see. How, then, do you explain the prior 4 years of JJ's body of work?

Rhetorical question. I do not care to debate. You have your opinion about Yates, I have mine about JJ.

Let the numbers do the talking. My opinion of Yates is that there was clearly a dropoff in production when Matt Schaub went down to when Yates took over for Jacoby. Of course that is usually the case when you replace a pro bowl QB with a 3rd string rookie QB.

In a nutshell...
The numbers showed that Jacoby has been a reliable #3 WR, or at least consistent.
The numbers show that there was a dropoff in his production from Schaub to Yates. Numbers don't lie. I am not arguing anything.

As far as putting the ball on the ground. He had one bad year in 2008 with 4 fumbles. He has 3 total in this other 4 years. None for the past 2 seasons (save the Baltimore game). Number don't have an opinion. Numbers don't have emotions. Numbers don't lie.

I have no problem with TJ Yates. I just have a problem when people are looking for a scapegoat after every game (insert random person predisposed as the problem). We win as a team. We lose as a team. Point blank. BTW I explained Jacoby's body of work over the past 4 years. Numbers don't lie, but apparently you overlooked them.

PS
The things you say about Jacoby are not mirrored in his number or on the gamefilm. People like you have been complaining about this guy, so I have been keeping my eye on him. Your arguments just don't hold water.

Mr. White
01-23-2012, 08:42 PM
Threads like this one only show up when he has a bad game (Oakland, Baltimore), or makes a mistake (drop TD pass in Cincy). I would say that is "knee jerk". I know you've "had enough of this clown" but there is due process in the NFL. That means management will likely bring in a WR to challenge him and Kevin Walter for the #2 spot, if it is feasible to move on they will. But that is unlikely seeing that his cap # was 600K this season and his contract was $3 million guaranteed. No point in carrying $2.4 million in dead cap space for a "knee jerk" reaction. So I'm guessing he will probably be back next year.

Apparently you haven't looked at when this thread was started. smh

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 08:46 PM
LMAO! Are you really going to try to pass those #s off as "good production"?

So in 10 weeks (with Andre sitting out the majority of the time), you're trying to say that less than 2 catches a game and 37 receiving yards is good production? :ahhaha:

Again...our BACKUP TE had a bigger impact in the receiving game than Jacoby (who only had to compete with K. Walter) did.


Stop trying to pass crap off like it was good football play or good production. There's UDFAs who can surpass that production.

Jacoby is not a #1 WR, nor is he making #1 money. Should we bring in a better #2? Absolutely. I clearly pointed out that he is a #3 WR and a 4th or 5th option on this team. Point blank. Bring in some more talent. I sure hope management does, because we need to improve.

BTW I love how you are ignoring that KW had less production (39 catches 474 yards 3 TD) than Jacoby the whole season. Why not bash him if Jacoby's numbers is "not impressive"?

Mr. White
01-23-2012, 08:47 PM
The numbers showed that Jacoby has been a reliable #3 WR, or at least consistent.


Who ever said he's the #3 receiver? Sounds like a convenient way to reframe his role so your argument fits your agenda.

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 08:54 PM
Apparently you haven't looked at when this thread was started. smh

Apparently you don't realize how this thread started. Here is the OP...

1st play of the game @ CIN.

He ran a lazy route on a sure TD strike....AGAIN. Beautiful throw by Yates and Jones was running the route like he didn't think he'd get the ball.

I've seen enough. Get this guy outta here.

:wadepalm:

It started right when Jacoby Jones dropped a pass. Wow, I believe I touched that point in my post...
Threads like this one only show up when he has a bad game (Oakland, Baltimore), or makes a mistake (drop TD pass in Cincy).

...I would say that is "knee jerk". ;)

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 08:57 PM
Who ever said he's the #3 receiver? Sounds like a convenient way to reframe his role so your argument fits your agenda.

He has always been a #3 in my book. You guys expect him to be a #1 apparently, no wonder you are so upset. He actually produced when Andre Johnson was out WITH Matt Schaub. He was decent this year, and decent last year. Of course I don't think he's a viable #1 option, even if it is a fill-in role. So I do hope we bring in somebody that can do that.

thunderkyss
01-23-2012, 09:02 PM
Who ever said he's the #3 receiver? Sounds like a convenient way to reframe his role so your argument fits your agenda.

KDub is our #2, always has been. Jacoby was a shot in the dark, a project from Lane College.... raw talent. We (as in the fans on this MB, & most likely the coaches, but we don't know) hoped Jj would turn into a #2.

Never happened. KDub got the #2 WR contract, Jj got a #3 WR contract. KDub starts opposite Aj....


Jj has not lived up to our expectations as a #2 WR, but he's a great (I think) #3. Even if you sign a real #2, I'd keep KDub (restructured contract to look more like Jj's) & Jj....... Use Jj when you want to stretch the field, use KDub when you have to have a completion.

Kthx
01-23-2012, 09:06 PM
He hasn't ever been decent, he is supposed to be a second string WR, thats why and what we paid him for, he was supposed to fill in for Andre when Andre was out and didn't step up. Of course him not being able to get open and/or dropping passes would be a little bit more forgiven if he did well at his secondary role of returning punts which he did terrible at all season. Even if you forget the fumble and the almost fumble against the Ravens his return game has been garbage this year as he tends to fake side to side while sitting in the same spot before running backwards and across the field to lose five yards from where the ball was caught.

I don't see how you are even trying to argue that the guy had a decent season because I watched every single game this season and I sure didn't see him step up very often. At this point I am going to just have to assume you are trying to troll the board.

Mr. White
01-23-2012, 09:06 PM
Apparently you don't realize how this thread started...



It started right when Jacoby Jones dropped a pass. Wow, I believe I touched that point in my post...


...I would say that is "knee jerk". ;)


Please. "Knee-jerk" was when they called Mario Williams a bust after his first game.

So far all I've seen from you is a red herring wrapped up in a strawman wrapped up in another strawman.

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 09:06 PM
KDub is our #2, always has been. Jacoby was a shot in the dark, a project from Lane College.... raw talent. We (as in the fans on this MB, & most likely the coaches, but we don't know) hoped Jj would turn into a #2.

Never happened. KDub got the #2 WR contract, Jj got a #3 WR contract. KDub starts opposite Aj....


Jj has not lived up to our expectations as a #2 WR, but he's a great (I think) #3. Even if you sign a real #2, I'd keep KDub (restructured contract to look more like Jj's) & Jj....... Use Jj when you want to stretch the field, use KDub when you have to have a completion.

That is why people are so upset with Jacoby. They expected him to be a #2, but he just isn't. He is a #3 that can stretch the field. He even got paid like a #3. If you want to be upset, KW got the #2 contract a few years ago and plays like a #3 (I have nothing against KW but you people seem to like being upset at somebody).

Mr. White
01-23-2012, 09:10 PM
He has always been a #3 in my book. You guys expect him to be a #1 apparently, no wonder you are so upset. He actually produced when Andre Johnson was out WITH Matt Schaub. He was decent this year, and decent last year. Of course I don't think he's a viable #1 option, even if it is a fill-in role. So I do hope we bring in somebody that can do that.

KDub is our #2, always has been. Jacoby was a shot in the dark, a project from Lane College.... raw talent. We (as in the fans on this MB, & most likely the coaches, but we don't know) hoped Jj would turn into a #2.

Never happened. KDub got the #2 WR contract, Jj got a #3 WR contract. KDub starts opposite Aj....


Jj has not lived up to our expectations as a #2 WR, but he's a great (I think) #3. Even if you sign a real #2, I'd keep KDub (restructured contract to look more like Jj's) & Jj....... Use Jj when you want to stretch the field, use KDub when you have to have a completion.

So he's a #3 because his fans say he is. Got it. :ok:

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 09:14 PM
This is for all the people complaing that "Jacoby doesn't catch passes".

NFL 2011 drop pass leaders
http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

...I don't see Jacoby's name. So that throw your "he get no targets because he sucks" argument out the window, because the guys drop more passes and still get targets.

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 09:15 PM
So he's a #3 because his fans say he is. Got it. :ok:

No he is a #3 because he is making $600k to Kevin Walter's $3 million.

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/houston-texans/wide-receiver/

Unlike you I back up any claim I make.

Kthx
01-23-2012, 09:17 PM
Umm.. He just got a 3 year 9 million dollar contract this season.

I don't even know why I bother responding to someone who is trying to defend the biggest waste of money on the roster, hes obviously trolling.

thunderkyss
01-23-2012, 09:21 PM
Kevin Walter (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2523/kevin-walter) caught two passes for 25 yards as the Texans fell to the Ravens in Sunday's Divisional round playoff game.
Walter was limited to 36 receiving yards on 10 targets in two playoff games. He had one ugly drop against Baltimore, securing only two of the eight passes thrown in his direction. Walter is a solid blocking and possession receiver, but the Texans may prioritize finding a more dynamic No. 2 receiver this offseason. Walter, 31 in August, is owed a $3.5 million base salary. Jan 15 - 4:33 PM

well, he's only going to earn $3.5 M next year..... that's not too bad.

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 09:24 PM
Umm.. He just got a 3 year 9 million dollar contract this season.

I don't even know why I bother responding to someone who is trying to defend the biggest waste of money on the roster, hes obviously trolling.

Ummm...only $3 million was guaranteed, with a option for the 3rd year.

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/
But of course you probably didn't know that.

I swear you Jacoby haters are to lazy to do your homework. Of course speaking out your a-hole takes less effort. ;)

Carr Bombed
01-23-2012, 09:24 PM
No he is a #3 because he is making $600k to Kevin Walter's $3 million.

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/houston-texans/wide-receiver/

Unlike you I back up any claim I make.

Gee, I guess that's why Tate is our #1 back and Foster is #2... You know since Tate had the bigger contract and all. :rolleyes:

The contract that Jacoby got doesn't have CRAP to do with what WR position he plays. His shitty play (mainly inconsistent play..you know Walter isn't a world beater, but atleast you know what you're going to get on a weekly basis) on the field is what keeps him from overtaking Walter...not his contract. Kubiak has been speaking in his ear and trying to get the jackass to step up and claim that role for a couple of seasons now and he can't do it even when it's offered on a golden platter.

They've been waiting for someone to overtake Walter for a few years now and the fact that they didn't draft a WR high and resigned Jacoby (plus telling him he needs to take his game to another level) means he was supposed to be that guy. He failed, but what else is new?

thunderkyss
01-23-2012, 09:28 PM
Umm.. He just got a 3 year 9 million dollar contract this season.

I don't even know why I bother responding to someone who is trying to defend the biggest waste of money on the roster, hes obviously trolling.

That's right, no signing bonus, the only guaranteed money is in the form of 1 year's salary. I'm sure it's the 2011 season. We can cut him & it would cost us nothing, we save $3M

KDub signed a 5 year $21.5M contract, that's a little more than $4M/yr. His salary next year will be $3M or so, but his cap number will be $4+M. Cutting him will also save us $3M

If anything, KDub is WR3a & Jacoby is WR3b.

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 09:28 PM
Gee, I guess that's why Tate is our #1 back and Foster is #2... You know since Tate had the bigger contract and all. :rolleyes:

The contract that Jacoby got doesn't have CRAP to do with what WR position he plays. His ****ty play on the field is what keeps him from overtaking Walter...not his contract. Kubiak has been speaking in his ear and trying to get the jackass to step up and claim that role for a couple of seasons now and he can't do it even when it's offered on a golden platter.

They've been waiting for someone to overtake Walter for a few years now and the fact that they didn't draft a WR high and resigned Jacoby (plus telling him he needs to take his game to another level) means he was supposed to be that guy. He failed, but what else is new?

That's different because he is a 2nd round pick and Foster was undrafted. So that was an ill conceived example. Walter got his contract in FA just like Jones did. You cannot compare those 2. Nice try.

BTW I guarantee you Foster will be making more than Tate next season. ;)

Carr Bombed
01-23-2012, 09:28 PM
well, he's only going to earn $3.5 M next year..... that's not too bad.

You act like people haven't been trying to replace him in the starting lineup either. One of those guys that was supposed to take his job is the same guy we're talking about right now.


But let's keep the dog and pony show going where we continue to say... "HEY GUYS!, stop looking at Jacoby and look over here!". :thisbig:

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 09:31 PM
You act like people haven't been trying to replace him in the starting lineup either. One of those guys that was supposed to take his job is the same guy we're talking about right now.


But let's keep the dog and pony show going where we continue to say... "HEY GUYS!, stop looking at Jacoby and look over here!". :thisbig:

Fooled me, because I don't see any "Kevin Walter has got to go" threads.

Carr Bombed
01-23-2012, 09:35 PM
That's different because he is a 2nd round pick and Foster was undrafted. So was an ill conceived example. Walter got his contract in FA just like Jones did. You cannot compare those 2. Nice try.

BTW I guarantee you Foster will be making more than Tate next season. ;)

Nice spin job buddy, but it isn't going to fly.. Money has NOTHING to do with Jacoby's spot in the WR pecking order is. Walter was a 7th round tender who like Foster earned his money (Foster will get his) and his spot on the team.

Jacoby was a 3rd round pick who has played no better than a mediocre player (and calling him that was actually a compliment from me)...which is why he pulled the contract that he did. Kubes has proven he'll play players who earn playing time. The fact that Walter makes what he does and Jacoby makes what he does is NOT the reason why Walter plays ahead of Jacoby.. He plays ahead of Jacoby, because Walter is the better more consistent player...plain and simple.

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 09:37 PM
Nice spin job buddy, but it isn't going to fly.. Money has NOTHING to do with Jacoby's spot in the WR pecking order is. Walter was a 7th round tender who like Foster earned his money (Foster will get his) and his spot on the team.

Jacoby was a 3rd round pick who has played no better than a mediocre player (and calling him that was actually a compliment from me)...which is why he pulled the contract that he did. Kubes has proven he'll play players who earn playing time. The fact that Walter makes what he does and Jacoby makes what he does is NOT the reason why Walter plays ahead of Jacoby.. He plays ahead of Jacoby, because Walter is the better more consistent player...plain and simple.
Arian Foster and Ben Tate are on their ROOKIE CONTRACT. Kevin Walter an Jacoby Jones are NOT.

You tried to make an argument, but that was an epic fail. A 2nd round pick AUTOMATICALLY makes more than an undrafted rookie. After your rookie contract you get whatever you are. Jacoby is a #3 and got paid like 1. Point blank. Apparently, you don't even know what you were trying to argue.

BTW Not only does KW play ahead of JJ. He gets paid ahead as well.
http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/houston-texans/wide-receiver/

Mr. White
01-23-2012, 09:44 PM
No he is a #3 because he is making $600k to Kevin Walter's $3 million.

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/houston-texans/wide-receiver/

Unlike you I back up any claim I make.

You're not the first person to come on this board and twist stats around.

thunderkyss
01-23-2012, 09:46 PM
Arian Foster and Ben Tate are on their ROOKIE CONTRACT. Kevin Walter an Jacoby Jones are NOT.

You tried to make an argument, but that was an epic fail. Apparently, you don't even know what you were trying to argue.

No, his argument is the same as mine. Jacoby has not been able to beat KDub as the #2 WR. He agrees KDub isn't a #2 WR, which makes it even more pathetic that Jj is still #3 on this depth chart.


There is some truth to that.

My point & I thought you were making the same point.. was that that's fine. We need #3 WRs & KDub & Jj are fine #3 WRs.

Like you said, we need a #2 WR. Hopefully getting rid of DA was a sign of things to come. I'd rather keep Jj. But if Kubes want KDub, I'm fine with that.. although I think Jj would end up on someone else's roster before KDub.

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 09:47 PM
You're not the first person to come on this board and twist stats around.

What did I twist? That is what they both get paid.

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 09:54 PM
No, his argument is the same as mine. Jacoby has not been able to beat KDub as the #2 WR. He agrees KDub isn't a #2 WR, which makes it even more pathetic that Jj is still #3 on this depth chart.


There is some truth to that.

My point & I thought you were making the same point.. was that that's fine. We need #3 WRs & KDub & Jj are fine #3 WRs.

Like you said, we need a #2 WR. Hopefully getting rid of DA was a sign of things to come. I'd rather keep Jj. But if Kubes want KDub, I'm fine with that.. although I think Jj would end up on someone else's roster before KDub.

I never argued with that point, but these Jacoby haters just want to argue you down until you feel the same way they do. Which is more proof they use emotion instead of logic. Jacoby got paid paid like a #3, with hopes that he could earn a #2 contract when this one is up. Well, he has 2 years to do that. People are bashing him because he couldn't step up and be a #1, but he isn't a #1 (nor is he getting paid like 1) so they should just get over it.

thunderkyss
01-23-2012, 09:56 PM
I never argued with that point, but these Jacoby haters just want to argue you down until you feel the same way they do. Which is more proof they use emotion instead of logic. Jacoby got paid paid like a #3, with hopes that he could earn a #2 contract when this one is up. Well, he has 2 years to do that. People are bashing him because he couldn't step up and be a #1, but he isn't a #1 (nor is he getting paid like 1) so they should just get over it.

7 years to become a #2..... who are we talking about, Brandon Lloyd?

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 09:59 PM
7 years to become a #2..... who are we talking about, Brandon Lloyd?

No his contract is only 3 million guaranteed over 3 years the rest was just incentive based. There is no risk in that. That is #3 money, and he is a #3 WR. They were hoping for a bargain, but they just got their money's worth.

thunderkyss
01-23-2012, 10:01 PM
No his contract is only 2 years 3 million guaranteed the 3rd year is an option. There is not risk. That is #3 money, and he is a #3 WR. They were hoping for a bargain, but they just got their money's worth (possibly a slight premium).

I'm with you, I understand. But... in all honesty, his development days are done. He is what he is. & unless we get a big armed QB we're not going to see much more from Jacoby.

I like the guy, I really do. Just saying, that "2 years to develop into a #1" line didn't sit well.

cbs1507
01-23-2012, 10:03 PM
I'm with you, I understand. But... in all honesty, his development days are done. He is what he is. & unless we get a big armed QB we're not going to see much more from Jacoby.

I like the guy, I really do. Just saying, that "2 years to develop into a #1" line didn't sit well.

I agree. But I never saw him as a #1 or even a #2. He can be a decent #3 that can stretch the field in the slot (which can be dangerous).

DocBar
01-23-2012, 10:04 PM
God bless America and spit on Russia. Why is Jones still a part of Texans's history? How effing hard is it to say adios to loserville? Does Kubiak need Phillips to do it for him? Makes that whole head coach article make a lot more sense.

thunderkyss
01-23-2012, 10:07 PM
God bless America and spit on Russia. Why is Jones still a part of Texans's history? How effing hard is it to say adios to loserville? Does Kubiak need Phillips to do it for him? Makes that whole head coach article make a lot more sense.

I like Jacoby. Hope he'll be a Texans for a long time.

gary
01-23-2012, 10:20 PM
I literally lol at those who say Yates does not know by now the best NFL receiver was not going to be covered up. That is just hilarious.

Carr Bombed
01-23-2012, 11:40 PM
I literally lol at those who say Yates does not know by now the best NFL receiver was not going to be covered up. That is just hilarious.

Umm...how about you go pull up where anybody even said that..

I seriously remember NOBODY saying that "Yates did not know the best NFL receiver in the game was not going to draw extra coverage". If you can find it, please post it...

I do however remember people talking about Yates' "inexperience", and with inexperience and a young rook comes the "INABILITY" to progress through reads or even the ability to make the right reads. See Dalton against our defense (who just got added to the probowl)...

Again a dog and pony show on full effect. NOBODY is acting like Yates' play didn't play a part in that loss. However to act like Yates needs to be hanged or given the same ridicule over his play in the game as Jacoby is what is "Hilarious" in this thread so far..

Player A..... 5th round rookie who played over his head.

Player B..... 5th year vet who screws the pooch on routine plays.

Now when you can tell me what I'm whiffing on here, please let me know.

Carr Bombed
01-23-2012, 11:41 PM
Fooled me, because I don't see any "Kevin Walter has got to go" threads.

There's a search feature...try using it. People have been talking about adding another #2 for awhile now. And the fact that they have been and your boy STILL hasn't stepped up to the plate only further confirms why he has to go and isn't even a quality #3 receiver. If we had that high quality #2, Walter would be the #3 because Jacoby can't move ahead of him on the depth chart.

The only reason why Jacoby is even in discussion for the #3 spot is because of the lack of talent behind Andre...it has NOTHING to do with Jacoby actually earning a #3 spot on a good WR depth chart. So if we do indeed upgrade the roster, odds are he won't even be able to hold on to the #3 receiver spot.

cbs1507
01-24-2012, 12:21 AM
There's a search feature...try using it. People have been talking about adding another #2 for awhile now. And the fact that they have been and your boy STILL hasn't stepped up to the plate only further confirms why he has to go and isn't even a quality #3 receiver. If we had that high quality #2, Walter would be the #3 because Jacoby can't move ahead of him on the depth chart.

The only reason why Jacoby is even in discussion for the #3 spot is because of the lack of talent behind Andre...it has NOTHING to do with Jacoby actually earning a #3 spot on a good WR depth chart. So if we do indeed upgrade the roster, odds are he won't even be able to hold on to the #3 receiver spot.

Yeah I typed in Kevin Walter and no thread popped up that was bashing him. I'm sure there a post here and there saying it, but no thread (and there's 250 pages so I bet none of them have anything to do with bashing Walter). However, I did find a thread bashing Jacoby Jones (go figure). lol

The only reason why people are so upset is because they actually thought this guy could step up and be a #1 or at least a #2. When did he ever convince you people that? lol He was always a #3 in my book. There is a reason management gave him a 3 year $10 million contract, with only 3 million guaranteed. It's because he is not a #2. He is not physical off the LOS. He is not the best route runner. They should just stick to him being an occasional deep threat in 3+ WR sets. They had Lestar Jean in training camp and was had high hopes for him, but he got injured. They will try to bring in an actual #2 and relieve some of the pressure (Jacoby obviously cannot handle). He is making $3 million over 3 years, that is #3 money. Stop expecting more from the guy, and more importantly lighten up on the bashing. He'll probably be here next season, and have a solid season (just as the #3 that he is).

ObsiWan
01-24-2012, 01:28 AM
For the record, there have been threads - or at least many posts - addressing the need to bring in someone to replace K.W. @ #2 WR for at least a couple of years.
"Please, Please, Pleeeease bring someone in that stretches the field so they can't just double A.J. all the time" was their battle cry.
But we seemed to always have other positions that were of greater need to be addressed....
Needed a solid LT to replace Salaam.
Needed an upgrade at OLB to replace Greenwood.
Needed a solid, dependable RB to replace Fumblitis Slaton.
Needed a CB to replace "Pay-Me-Rick"
Needed solid safeties to replace the two guys we had back there last year
...there was always something.

Damn, when I look back at what we were working with in seasons past compared to what we have now, it's a wonder we didn't suck worse....

Well, now there seems to be nothing else more pressing than upgrading that #2 WR spot.

K.W. and J.J. will be here come camp time. And like Slaton before them (when Jer. Johnson and A. Foster were brought in) they'll have to fight to keep their spots on the depth chart.
It'll be interesting to see who Smithiak brings in and more interesting to see what happens in camp.

I can't wait.

DocBar
01-24-2012, 05:53 AM
I like Jacoby. Hope he'll be a Texans for a long time.That's just mean. LOL

LongTimeLurker
01-24-2012, 06:58 AM
im sure its been said already but im pretty sure he can be easily replaced via draft at a fraction of the price, we can bring someone in and let them battle it out and see who comes up on top

2012Champs
01-24-2012, 07:00 AM
Umm...how about you go pull up where anybody even said that..

I seriously remember NOBODY saying that "Yates did not know the best NFL receiver in the game was not going to draw extra coverage". If you can find it, please post it...

I do however remember people talking about Yates' "inexperience", and with inexperience and a young rook comes the "INABILITY" to progress through reads or even the ability to make the right reads. See Dalton against our defense (who just got added to the probowl)...

Again a dog and pony show on full effect. NOBODY is acting like Yates' play didn't play a part in that loss. However to act like Yates needs to be hanged or given the same ridicule over his play in the game as Jacoby is what is "Hilarious" in this thread so far..

Player A..... 5th round rookie who played over his head.

Player B..... 5th year vet who screws the pooch on routine plays.

Now when you can tell me what I'm whiffing on here, please let me know.



At the end of the day Yates was the player who had the biggest role in our loss that's just the facts years played in the nfl don't change that

2012Champs
01-24-2012, 07:02 AM
im sure its been said already but im pretty sure he can be easily replaced via draft at a fraction of the price, we can bring someone in and let them battle it out and see who comes up on top


You might want to look up the cost involved

Blake
01-24-2012, 07:58 AM
Ok, so a bunch of yall say Jones' has got to go. Who are you replacing him with?

Keeping in mind that releasing Jones is 2.4 million dollars out the door with nothing to show for it.

So now you need a WR who can return punts reliably. Remember, he had zero muffed punts all season.


???????

Seņor Stan
01-24-2012, 08:22 AM
Rush 11 every punt. No dudes running back on coverage or worrying about blocking. If you don't get to the kicker in time...just let the ball roll.

thunderkyss
01-24-2012, 08:39 AM
For the record, there have been threads - or at least many posts - addressing the need to bring in someone to replace K.W. @ #2 WR for at least a couple of years.
"Please, Please, Pleeeease bring someone in that stretches the field so they can't just double A.J. all the time" was their battle cry.
But we seemed to always have other positions that were of greater need to be addressed....


I don't know that we need a second WR to take pressure of Aj... seriously.

Looking back on our history, it appears to me that we've thrown the ball a lot (two 4000+ yards from Schaub) out of necessity. But, since Kubiak got here, he's wanted a ball-control running offense. Just never had been able to do it until this year & we've seen Schaub's attempts come way down.

If everything works out the way Kubiak wants it to, Matt won't be throwing the ball much more than 20 times a game very often. & Andre seems to get WTF open almost anytime he wants. If Andre isn't open, somebody else is.

With all that said, I do agree we need to get someone as the heir apparent to Andre, but WRs adjust to the league pretty fast so I don't know if the time is now to get that player.

I'd love it if we had players better than KDub & Jj on our WR depth chart, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any different.

Only that the idea is to get Andre's replacement, not help to take pressure off of him...... the play action does that.

gary
01-24-2012, 10:21 AM
Umm...how about you go pull up where anybody even said that..

I seriously remember NOBODY saying that "Yates did not know the best NFL receiver in the game was not going to draw extra coverage". If you can find it, please post it...

I do however remember people talking about Yates' "inexperience", and with inexperience and a young rook comes the "INABILITY" to progress through reads or even the ability to make the right reads. See Dalton against our defense (who just got added to the probowl)...

Again a dog and pony show on full effect. NOBODY is acting like Yates' play didn't play a part in that loss. However to act like Yates needs to be hanged or given the same ridicule over his play in the game as Jacoby is what is "Hilarious" in this thread so far..

Player A..... 5th round rookie who played over his head.

Player B..... 5th year vet who screws the pooch on routine plays.

Now when you can tell me what I'm whiffing on here, please let me know.He was locked onto AJ way too much he should know by now not to thrown into triple teams. No one said it but it was pretty obvious to me that Yates played as if he did not know that. Nervous? Surely he was so I won't ridicule him too much because overall I thought he did O.K. in game number two on the road and a lot better the week prior to Baltimore so major kudos to him. I hope he learns and he gets better. You take those fourteen points off turnovers away and Houston wins that game big time. If he had not been locked onto Walter on that one play and AJ on the others as well as the JJ fumble then the Texans would have been playing the Patriots last Sunday. 50/50 blame to go around but life goes on I still think the fault should be equal though. I have moved onto next season now the sport is not going anywhere..

2012Champs
01-24-2012, 11:25 AM
I liked CBS' house cleaning in this thread

HJam72
01-24-2012, 11:28 AM
I don't know that we need a second WR to take pressure of Aj... seriously.

Looking back on our history, it appears to me that we've thrown the ball a lot (two 4000+ yards from Schaub) out of necessity. But, since Kubiak got here, he's wanted a ball-control running offense. Just never had been able to do it until this year & we've seen Schaub's attempts come way down.

If everything works out the way Kubiak wants it to, Matt won't be throwing the ball much more than 20 times a game very often. & Andre seems to get WTF open almost anytime he wants. If Andre isn't open, somebody else is.

With all that said, I do agree we need to get someone as the heir apparent to Andre, but WRs adjust to the league pretty fast so I don't know if the time is now to get that player.

I'd love it if we had players better than KDub & Jj on our WR depth chart, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any different.

Only that the idea is to get Andre's replacement, not help to take pressure off of him...... the play action does that.

I still think it's time to do it. I don't know if it qualifies as a need, but I believe it's the closest thing we have to one, other than a 10 yr. contract for Phillips as D.C. (well, if he can stay healthy enough).

infantrycak
01-24-2012, 11:51 AM
Looking back on our history, it appears to me that we've thrown the ball a lot (two 4000+ yards from Schaub) out of necessity. But, since Kubiak got here, he's wanted a ball-control running offense. Just never had been able to do it until this year & we've seen Schaub's attempts come way down.

Where does this myth come from? With the league's leading rusher we passed for 4370 yards. Schaub was on pace for his 3rd straight 4000 yard season when he got injured. He was averaging 30 attempts per game. Yes Kubiak wants a solid running game. That isn't the same as not wanting to pass.

Rey
01-24-2012, 12:07 PM
Where does this myth come from? With the league's leading rusher we passed for 4370 yards. Schaub was on pace for his 3rd straight 4000 yard season when he got injured. He was averaging 30 attempts per game. Yes Kubiak wants a solid running game. That isn't the same as not wanting to pass.

It's not that he doesn't want to pass, but when you are ahead or close at the end of games you can run the ball more.

Yes Schaub was averaging 29.something attemps/gm but that was his lowest att/gm since his arrival here in 2007.

His Yards per game was also down this year as well as his completion percentage. His completion percentage was as low as it's been since his first two years in the league.

What he was doing was hitting on more big plays. His YPC was higher than it's ever been.

Blake
01-24-2012, 12:11 PM
Ok, so a bunch of yall say Jones' has got to go. Who are you replacing him with?

Keeping in mind that releasing Jones is 2.4 million dollars out the door with nothing to show for it.

So now you need a WR who can return punts reliably. Remember, he had zero muffed punts all season.


???????

Still waiting on an answer to this. Alot of people spotting a "problem", but offering no solutions.

infantrycak
01-24-2012, 12:15 PM
It's not that he doesn't want to pass, but when you are ahead or close at the end of games you can run the ball more. ...

True. The rest was irrelevant to the point which was play-calling. There is nothing in Kubiak's play-calling history to suggest he wants to throw the ball only 20 times per game. Kubiak is a former QB known for working with QB's.

Still waiting on an answer to this. Alot of people spotting a "problem", but offering no solutions.

My opinion is with any player you don't cut them until you have a replacement you are pretty confident is better.

Where did you get the $2.4 mil to cut him figure? My understanding is the guaranteed money in his contract was not a signing bonus it was a guaranteed first year salary in which case there is little or no cap effect to cut him.

cbs1507
01-24-2012, 12:29 PM
True. The rest was irrelevant to the point which was play-calling. There is nothing in Kubiak's play-calling history to suggest he wants to throw the ball only 20 times per game. Kubiak is a former QB known for working with QB's.



My opinion is with any player you don't cut them until you have a replacement you are pretty confident is better.

Where did you get the $2.4 mil to cut him figure? My understanding is the guaranteed money in his contract was not a signing bonus it was a guaranteed first year salary in which case there is little or no cap effect to cut him.

Where did you get this information from? I think you saw that he got a $10 million contract with $3 million guaranteed and drew the conclusion that it meant 1 year guaranteed. Wrong. $3 million guaranteed over the life of the contract. He only got $600k this season. Which means he has $2.4 million left to earn. You can cut him if you want to, but that's dead cap space if you do.

infantrycak
01-24-2012, 12:41 PM
Where did you get this information from? I think you saw that he got a $10 million contract with $3 million guaranteed and drew the conclusion that it meant 1 year guaranteed. Wrong. $3 million guaranteed over the life of the contract. He only got $600k this season. Which means he has $2.4 million left to earn. You can cut him if you want to, but that's dead cap space if you do.

I heard the first year's salary was guaranteed at just around $3 mil on the radio so I didn't draw any conclusions other than remembering it. Now where did you get your info?

thunderkyss
01-24-2012, 12:55 PM
I heard the first year's salary was guaranteed at just around $3 mil on the radio so I didn't draw any conclusions other than remembering it. Now where did you get your info?


That's what I thought as well. I did see the website linked to earlier, showing a $670 some thousand dollar salary. But, for all we know that was his salary & the $2.4 million was paid as a roster bonus or something this year.

From my understanding, there would be no dead money if Jacoby was cut this year.

Seņor Stan
01-24-2012, 01:02 PM
Where does this myth come from? With the league's leading rusher we passed for 4370 yards. Schaub was on pace for his 3rd straight 4000 yard season when he got injured. He was averaging 30 attempts per game. Yes Kubiak wants a solid running game. That isn't the same as not wanting to pass.

Agreed...Kubiak wants balance. He says it more than shucks, dang, and "nicked up" and kids combined.

Blake
01-24-2012, 01:05 PM
I heard the first year's salary was guaranteed at just around $3 mil on the radio so I didn't draw any conclusions other than remembering it. Now where did you get your info?

This is from rotoworld.com

7/29/2011: Signed a three-year, $10.5 million contract. The deal contains $3 million guaranteed. 2011-2013: Under Contract, 2014: Free Agent

This is from spotrac.com

Contract:3 yr(s) / $10,500,000
Signing Bonus $450,000
Free Agent:2014 / Unrestricted
2011 BASE SALARY - $467,280
2011 S. BONUS - $150,000
2011 MISC. BONUS - N/A
2011 CAP HIT - 617,280
2012 NA
2013 NA
2014 UFA
$3 million guaranteed

Chron.com reported

Jones agreed to a three-year contract worth $10.5 million, with $3.5 million guaranteed.


Without direct knowledge of the contract payout, I am making the assumption that the contract is somewhat back-loaded and that he is getting around 4 million for the 2012 season, and around 6 million for the 2013 season.

The radio hosts you heard could have mistaken Jones' first year salary for the contract's guaranteed amount. Or maybe they are correct and sportrac is wrong. Either way, I dont think they are going to find a better replacement. His status on this team really depends on if they are able to save alot of money or not.

cbs1507
01-24-2012, 01:15 PM
I heard the first year's salary was guaranteed at just around $3 mil on the radio so I didn't draw any conclusions other than remembering it. Now where did you get your info?

That's what I thought as well. I did see the website linked to earlier, showing a $670 some thousand dollar salary. But, for all we know that was his salary & the $2.4 million was paid as a roster bonus or something this year.

From my understanding, there would be no dead money if Jacoby was cut this year.

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/

That may have been what you've heard, and he may have been paid the bonus up front. But his cap hit was about $600k this year, which means he has $2.4 million left for the next 2 years. He can very well be cut, but we will have $2.4 million on the books for the next 2 years.

ChampionTexan
01-24-2012, 01:19 PM
Where did you get this information from? I think you saw that he got a $10 million contract with $3 million guaranteed and drew the conclusion that it meant 1 year guaranteed. Wrong. $3 million guaranteed over the life of the contract. He only got $600k this season. Which means he has $2.4 million left to earn. You can cut him if you want to, but that's dead cap space if you do.

I heard the first year's salary was guaranteed at just around $3 mil on the radio so I didn't draw any conclusions other than remembering it. Now where did you get your info?

This is from rotoworld.com

This is from spotrac.com

Chron.com reported

Without direct knowledge of the contract payout, I am making the assumption that the contract is somewhat back-loaded and that he is getting around 4 million for the 2012 season, and around 6 million for the 2013 season.


The radio hosts you heard could have mistaken Jones' first year salary for the contract's guaranteed amount. Or maybe they are correct and sportrac is wrong. Either way, I dont think they are going to find a better replacement. His status on this team really depends on if they are able to save alot of money or not.

The only place I've seen/heard the $600K is spotrac, and I've stated before, I really question their info. Not only do they have different info. for Mario than most "verbal" reports I've heard, but they've got Julius Peppers reflected as having a $84 Million contract with a cumulative lifetime cap amount (2010 thru 2016 combined) of $110.5 Million.

Julius Peppers $110.5 Million cumulative Cap hit (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/julius-peppers/)

Kind of makes you take anything and everything they publish with a giant grain of salt.

cbs1507
01-24-2012, 01:27 PM
The only place I've seen/heard the $600K is spotrac, and I've stated before, I really question their info. Not only do they have different info. for Mario than most "verbal" reports I've heard, but they've got Julius Peppers reflected as having a $84 Million contract with a cumulative lifetime cap amount (2010 thru 2016 combined) of $110.5 Million.

Julius Peppers $110.5 Million cumulative Cap hit (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/julius-peppers/)

Kind of makes you take anything and everything they publish with a giant grain of salt.

They are actually accurate. You have to pay attention to the drop menu. It gives 3 options:
1) Base salary (the base salary that they get per year for the duration of the contract)
2) Average salary (the average salary they get per year for the duration of the contract)
3) Cap hit (the actual cap hit per year for the duration of the salary)

The most important one is cap hit, because it allows you to understand how much cap space you are working with.

infantrycak
01-24-2012, 01:35 PM
That may have been what you've heard, and he may have been paid the bonus up front. But his cap hit was about $600k this year, which means he has $2.4 million left for the next 2 years. He can very well be cut, but we will have $2.4 million on the books for the next 2 years.

First off I didn't "hear" anything "on the radio" from rotoworld. Second you are mixing up guarantees and signing bonuses. If he was paid $3 mil as a signing bonus his cap hit this year would have been $1 mil + whatever salary.

The Texans have been big on this contract structure recently of minimizing signing bonuses and guaranteeing early salaries.

ChampionTexan
01-24-2012, 01:35 PM
They are actually accurate. You have to pay attention to the drop menu. It gives 3 options:
1) Base salary (the base salary that they get per year for the duration of the contract)
2) Average salary (the average salary they get per year for the duration of the contract)
3) Cap hit (the actual cap hit per year for the duration of the salary)

The most important one is cap hit, because it allows you to understand how much cap space you are working with.

So if it's accurate, how does a $84 Million contract have a "CAP HIT" column that adds up to $110.5 Million? How does the base salary column total $73.6 Million, while the Miscellaneous bonus column totals $31 Million?

Blake
01-24-2012, 01:48 PM
Another number I am seeing in various places is this.

Due a $3 million base salary in 2012 (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4239/player?r=1)
Jones' contract included $3.5 million in guarantees -- his $1.5 million signing bonus and $2 million base salary -- with $7 million in base salary over the final two seasons. (http://www.macsfootballblog.com/2012/01/as-expected-jacoby-jones-taking-heat-in.html)

Piecing it together his contract would look like this.

3 years / 10,500,000 total

Signing Bonus: 1.5 million

2011 2 million base
2012 3 million base
2013 4 million base

In this structure we would have to assume that his signing bonus was either paid up front, or split into three $500,000 payments. Assuming it was split to keep under the cap, his 2011 cap hit was 3 million. That means the Texans could release Jones and only have $500,000 as dead cap money. Then they could go out and draft a rookie for under a million a year, easy.

cbs1507
01-24-2012, 02:03 PM
First off I didn't "hear" anything "on the radio" from rotoworld. Second you are mixing up guarantees and signing bonuses. If he was paid $3 mil as a signing bonus his cap hit this year would have been $1 mil + whatever salary.

The Texans have been big on this contract structure recently of minimizing signing bonuses and guaranteeing early salaries.

First off, sir I did not say you got your information from rotoworld. You clearly told me you heard your info from the radio. You asked me where I got my info, so I was answering YOUR question.

Second, that is my point. His cap hit was $600k therefore I drew the conclusion he did not get $3 million up front. I never saw anything about a $3 million bonus or 1st year $3 million salary. Every source I have seen says he got $3 million guaranteed. If you can show me where it says he got the $3 million guaranteed up front as a bonus or as his first year salary please show me because I have yet to find it.

What some people seem to not grasp is the concept of guaranteed money in an NFL contract. If a player signs a 3 year $10 million contract with $3 million guaranteed, this does not mean he gets $3 million up front and you are relieved of cap space if you release him the next season. It means that the $3 million guaranteed is what he is entitled to over the duration of the contract. The guaranteed $3 million is dispersed over the 3 years, not a bonus or guaranteed salary for the 1 year. If we release Jacoby we still owe him $2.4 million even if he plays for another team.

thunderkyss
01-24-2012, 02:38 PM
Where does this myth come from? With the league's leading rusher we passed for 4370 yards. Schaub was on pace for his 3rd straight 4000 yard season when he got injured. He was averaging 30 attempts per game. Yes Kubiak wants a solid running game. That isn't the same as not wanting to pass.

What myth? It was an observation. If you think it's baseless, just say so. Myth?

pssh.

Last year, with the league's leading rusher, we played from behind in most games... which goes along with my statement, "out of necessity"

This year, even with a healthy Schaub his attempts had been down compared to earlier seasons. In the games we took the lead early, Schaub did not throw for more than 25 times. We routed Indy at home 31-7, Matt threw 24 times. The Route in Tennessee, 41-7, 23 times. Cleveland, 30-12.... 23 times. TB 37-9.... 15 attempts.

If Kubiak had his way, I believe, based on my observation, all our games would go this way. If however, we do not establish an early lead, then we'll throw the ball to get into the game.

infantrycak
01-24-2012, 02:42 PM
First off, sir I did not say you got your information from rotoworld. You clearly told me you heard your info from the radio. You asked me where I got my info, so I was answering YOUR question. ...

You are still not answering it. Rotoworld doesn't say what you asserted. It's cool. Super Mario has provided several links albeit they don't agree.

And yes I understand the difference between signing bonuses, roster bonuses and guaranteed salary (which often is only guaranteed for injury by the way - had you considered that?).

cbs1507
01-24-2012, 02:50 PM
You are still not answering it. Rotoworld doesn't say what you asserted. It's cool. Super Mario has provided several links albeit they don't agree.

And yes I understand the difference between signing bonuses, roster bonuses and guaranteed salary (which often is only guaranteed for injury by the way - had you considered that?).

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/

Jacoby Jones' contract...

7/29/2011: Signed a three-year, $10.5 million contract. The deal contains $3 million guaranteed. 2011-2013: Under Contract, 2014: Free Agent

He has $3 million guaranteed regardless of injury or any unforeseeable circumstance. He will make $3 million regardless if we release him or keep him. He only got $600k this season, so therefore if we release him he will still get paid $2.4 million by the Texans even if he is on another team.

The point that I am making is that Jacoby Jones got $3 million guaranteed in his contract. Teams do not pay the full guaranteed upfront (that would hurt cap space). The $3 million is dispersed over the life of the contract (in Jacoby's case 3 years). Point blank.

thunderkyss
01-24-2012, 02:58 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/hou/

The point that I am making is that Jacoby Jones got $3 million guaranteed in his contract. Teams do not pay the full guaranteed upfront (that would hurt cap space). The $3 million is dispersed over the life of the contract (in Jacoby's case 3 years). Point blank.

Do you have anything showing his cap hit was only $600K?

I understand that was his salary, but if he was given a bonus, his cap number would have been more. If he got a $2.4M roster bonus, it would all hit this year & he would cost nothing to cut.

If it was a signing bonus, then we will pro-rate it over the life of the contract.

If, you are saying that he will earn $9.4M over the next two years..... I'm not buying it. I've seen salaries escalate, but nothing like that.

cbs1507
01-24-2012, 03:08 PM
Do you have anything showing his cap hit was only $600K?

I understand that was his salary, but if he was given a bonus, his cap number would have been more. If he got a $2.4M roster bonus, it would all hit this year & he would cost nothing to cut.

If it was a signing bonus, then we will pro-rate it over the life of the contract.

If, you are saying that he will earn $9.4M over the next two years..... I'm not buying it. I've seen salaries escalate, but nothing like that.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/jacoby-jones/

According to this that is the case. But you make a good point though. I hope you are right. If not, I believe management will be busy restructuring contracts and some people will be cut in order to sign Foster and/or Williams to long term deals.

BTW I found this article that confirms your scenario.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/781461-houston-texans-free-agency-what-to-make-of-re-signing-jones-and-butler

It is really hard to find anything about the details of Texans contracts (there so many conflicting sources), so I'll keep looking. The one things that is constant everywhere is that his contract has $3 million guaranteed.

It doesn't make sense to guarantee him $3 million up front for this year, it seems more logical that it was dispersed (since guaranteed $ is usually prorated for the duration of the contract). most likely it is a 3 year $10 million contract in which Jacoby will have to earn the $10 million through production, and will get $3 regardless. So if he produces like he has in the past h will only get $3 million, but if his potential comes into fruition on the field he can earn the full $10 million. But that's just a hunch.

Texn4life
01-24-2012, 03:38 PM
I don't have a link to anything, but I'm almost certain that McClain said on the radio last year that Jacoby's deal was essentially a year-to-year contract and that we wouldn't have a big cap hit should we choose to move on. I could be wrong, and I'm sure the specifics of this will come to light soon enough. I just can't see a situation where we guarantee him 3 million this year no matter what. I know Rick Smith would have to be smarter than this.

Double Barrel
01-24-2012, 03:48 PM
I don't have a link to anything, but I'm almost certain that McClain said on the radio last year that Jacoby's deal was essentially a year-to-year contract and that we wouldn't have a big cap hit should we choose to move on. I could be wrong, and I'm sure the specifics of this will come to light soon enough. I just can't see a situation where we guarantee him 3 million this year no matter what. I know Rick Smith would have to be smarter than this.

I have heard McClain state the same thing on more than one occasion.

FWIW, Barry Warner on 610 said last week that cutting Jacoby would cost the Texans nothing, and he claims to have this information from within the organization.

thunderkyss
01-24-2012, 05:04 PM
I don't have a link to anything, but I'm almost certain that McClain said on the radio last year that Jacoby's deal was essentially a year-to-year contract and that we wouldn't have a big cap hit should we choose to move on. I could be wrong, and I'm sure the specifics of this will come to light soon enough. I just can't see a situation where we guarantee him 3 million this year no matter what. I know Rick Smith would have to be smarter than this.

I believed the same thing. However, I think I know where we made our mistake.

We believed John McClain.

infantrycak
01-24-2012, 05:07 PM
He has $3 million guaranteed regardless of injury or any unforeseeable circumstance. ... Point blank.

The point blank point is you have no idea how his contract is structured. Rotoworld rarely if ever says whether or not guaranteed money is only guaranteed for injury or is pure guaranteed.

Comprehend the difference here. I didn't claim to know the answer. You did. You haven't come up with proof of your position when repeatedly asked.

Texn4life
01-24-2012, 05:10 PM
I believed the same thing. However, I think I know where we made our mistake.

We believed John McClain.

Until I see somewhere were it's confirmed where we'll have 2.5 mil of dead space I'm going with the thought that it won't cost us nearly that much. It doesn't sound like anyone knows for sure so I'll just wait and see.

PapaL
01-24-2012, 05:13 PM
A replacement for a guy and the standard we are looking for is 1.) Doesn't muff punts 2.) Doesn't run backwards and 3.) Understands what a fair catch is?

Hell I could do that! Fair catch and run my ass out of bounds before the ball hits me. Jacoby isn't making any plays running backwards and/or muffing punts so yeah just about anyone would fill in nicely and cheaper.

That's MY solution.

cbs1507
01-24-2012, 05:33 PM
The point blank point is you have no idea how his contract is structured. Rotoworld rarely if ever says whether or not guaranteed money is only guaranteed for injury or is pure guaranteed.

Comprehend the difference here. I didn't claim to know the answer. You did. You haven't come up with proof of your position when repeatedly asked.

He is making $3 million guaranteed. $3 million guaranteed has nothing to do with injury. If they think he could miss time for injury, it will likely not be including in the guaranteed figure. Got it? Whether or not it was paid out this season is questionable. But if we did, it is not likely that the $3 million counted against the cap this year. So therefore, we will still have $2.4 million prorated over 2 years counting against our cap space.

You asked me where I got my information from and I told you. If you don't believe it, so be it. But don't try to play the "you haven't come up with proof of your position" card again...ok. ;)

cbs1507
01-24-2012, 05:38 PM
Until I see somewhere were it's confirmed where we'll have 2.5 mil of dead space I'm going with the thought that it won't cost us nearly that much. It doesn't sound like anyone knows for sure so I'll just wait and see.

No I never said $2.4 million would be due next season entirely. It would most likely be prorated if my position was correct. So he would be owed like $1.2 million this season and $1.2 next. Something along that lines.

Texn4life
01-24-2012, 05:43 PM
No I never said $2.4 million would be due next season entirely. It would most likely be prorated if my position was correct. So he would be owed like $1.2 million this season and $1.2 next. Something along that lines.

I believe it was Super Mario that said we would have that much in dead cap space. The point I'm trying to make is no one here knows. To sit here and act like we know right now is foolish. We can speculate all we want, but its wasting time and energy. I'd rather wait and see.

And like I said, I know I've heard McClain say that his contract is on a year to year basis with no penalty cap wise for releasing him after the first year. His word isn't gospel though as we all know so take it for what its worth.

cbs1507
01-24-2012, 05:53 PM
I believe it was Super Mario that said we would have that much in dead cap space. The point I'm trying to make is no one here knows. To sit here and act like we know right now is foolish. We can speculate all we want, but its wasting time and energy. I'd rather wait and see.

And like I said, I know I've heard McClain say that his contract is on a year to year basis with no penalty cap wise for releasing him after the first year. His word isn't gospel though as we all know so take it for what its worth.

No we do actually know this. We know that he got $3 million guaranteed. Nobody can deny this. Even if he gets paid up front, it will not count as $3 million against the cap THIS YEAR (because it didn't). So if he got $3 million for this year alone, then where does this money go. It gets prorated. So even if we release him, it will count as $2.4 million against the cap for the next 2 years.

BTW John McClain's word may not be "gospel", but I'm willing to bet he never reported this word for word...

And like I said, I know I've heard McClain say that his contract is on a year to year basis with no penalty cap wise for releasing him after the first year.

...but I would like to see proof of him saying that. What I am saying is just a hunch based on the way NFL contracts usually are constructed. But I am pretty confident that I am right.

Texn4life
01-24-2012, 05:56 PM
No we do actually know this. We know that he got $3 million guaranteed. Nobody can deny this. Even if he gets paid up front, it will not count as $3 million against the cap THIS YEAR. It will be prorated. So even if we release him, it will count as $2.4 million against the cap for the next 2 years.


Well John McClain says you're wrong. You can go argue that out with him.

thunderkyss
01-24-2012, 05:59 PM
No we do actually know this. We know that he got $3 million guaranteed. Nobody can deny this. Even if he gets paid up front, it will not count as $3 million against the cap THIS YEAR. It will be prorated. So even if we release him, it will count as $2.4 million against the cap for the next 2 years.

I don't think that is true.... if he is cut, it all goes on the 2012 cap.

If, the guarantee is $1.2M for the next two years, his yearly salary is going to have to be $3.5M.... So he will cost us $4.7 against the cap if he plays & $2.4M if he's cut?

So even with $2.4M in dead money, we're saving $2.3M in cap room.

Kaiser Toro
01-24-2012, 05:59 PM
I have not seen anything to suggest that it will be cost effective to keep him next year.

cbs1507
01-24-2012, 06:13 PM
I don't think that is true.... if he is cut, it all goes on the 2012 cap.

If, the guarantee is $1.2M for the next two years, his yearly salary is going to have to be $3.5M.... So he will cost us $4.7 against the cap if he plays & $2.4M if he's cut?

So even with $2.4M in dead money, we're saving $2.3M in cap room.

No it won't. Most contracts are constructed that way. Any money given up front is usually prorated over the duration of the contract.

Yes it would cost us more money to keep him. He kind of signed a 3 year $10 million contract. ;) But who would we have to replace him? It would likely cost more than Jacoby's salary to get a FA, so maybe a we get a gem in the Draft or maybe Lestar Jean pans out (or maybe Jacoby pans out, he's not a bad #3 WR imo and gets paid like one). Anyway, there are other people that will likely be cut before they make a decision on Jacoby. They have until August 4th to get under the cap, so a decision on Jacoby's future with the Texans would most likely come after training camp.

DocBar
01-24-2012, 06:16 PM
Keep Jacoby at ANY cost!!!!

Signed,
2012 Opponents

Texan_Bill
01-24-2012, 07:32 PM
Jacoby is like that really hot chick at a gentlemen's club. She looks like she would be a great chick to get dances from, but then you get the first one and it's not so good but you have to pay her anyway. You're kind of overwhelmed with the "potential" so you get a few more dances. As it turns out, she is a terrible dancer, but you have to pay her... That said, it doesn't mean you shouldn't "cut bait" at some point.

Time to "cut bait" with Jacoby aka Porsha or Olivia, or Nadia.

Wolf
01-24-2012, 07:42 PM
Damn Bill.. I didn't know they had names like that.. I need to get to a bigger city.. Only names I have heard are Cinnamon, Autumn, Vanilla, and Summer
:thud:

Texan_Bill
01-24-2012, 07:47 PM
Damn Bill.. I didn't know they had names like that.. I need to get to a bigger city.. Only names I have heard are Cinnamon, Autumn, Vanilla, and Summer
:thud:

Those names are so Shreveport Louisiana! ;) At least you enjoyed and appreciated the "bare-knuckled" vernacular!

thunderkyss
01-24-2012, 08:19 PM
Jacoby is like that really hot chick at a gentlemen's club. She looks like she would be a great chick to get dances from, but then you get the first one and it's not so good but you have to pay her anyway. You're kind of overwhelmed with the "potential" so you get a few more dances. As it turns out, she is a terrible dancer, but you have to pay her... That said, it doesn't mean you shouldn't "cut bait" at some point.

Time to "cut bait" with Jacoby aka Porsha or Olivia, or Nadia.

Actually, Andre Johnson is a $20 dancer. Everytime you send him out there, he brings back $20 a dance. You'd like to pick up another dancer that can bring in $20 a dance. Jacoby looks the part.

But everytime you send him out there, he comes back with $5. You give him some time to "develop" learn a few tricks, work on his technique. 5 years later, he's still bringing in $5/dance.

Next year, you decide to go get another dancer & you hope he brings in $20 a dance... but you don't know. So, now you've got Andre, bringing you $20/dance. This new guy who'll bring in somewhere between $20/dance & $5/dance..... & Jacoby who will bring in $5/dance.

I can understand you getting upset if you haven't figured out that Jacoby won't bring home $20 but you continue to expect him to. I mean look at him....

Like the guys who don't know that Wrassl'n is fake. I mean, c'mon....

Wolf
01-24-2012, 08:24 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/880927/jacoby_medium.gif

Luv_ya_blue
01-24-2012, 08:28 PM
How in heavens name is this thread still going on...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rCvZgA52zPY/TsCBUapEcyI/AAAAAAAABCY/TPX75oQVmJE/s1600/energizer-bunny.jpg

DocBar
01-24-2012, 08:32 PM
Actually, Andre Johnson is a $20 dancer. Everytime you send him out there, he brings back $20 a dance. You'd like to pick up another dancer that can bring in $20 a dance. Jacoby looks the part.

But everytime you send him out there, he comes back with $5. You give him some time to "develop" learn a few tricks, work on his technique. 5 years later, he's still bringing in $5/dance.

Next year, you decide to go get another dancer & you hope he brings in $20 a dance... but you don't know. So, now you've got Andre, bringing you $20/dance. This new guy who'll bring in somewhere between $20/dance & $5/dance..... & Jacoby who will bring in $5/dance.

I can understand you getting upset if you haven't figured out that Jacoby won't bring home $20 but you continue to expect him to. I mean look at him....

Like the guys who don't know that Wrassl'n is fake. I mean, c'mon....

They call me Pimp Daddy TK!!! You know waaaay too ,uch about this......

thunderkyss
01-24-2012, 08:45 PM
They call me Pimp Daddy TK!!! You know waaaay too ,uch about this......

I have cable.

DocBar
01-24-2012, 08:48 PM
I have cable.So you're a soft porn Pimp daddy?

ChampionTexan
01-24-2012, 10:20 PM
I don't think that is true.... if he is cut, it all goes on the 2012 cap.

If, the guarantee is $1.2M for the next two years, his yearly salary is going to have to be $3.5M.... So he will cost us $4.7 against the cap if he plays & $2.4M if he's cut?

So even with $2.4M in dead money, we're saving $2.3M in cap room.

If there's any unamortized bonus as it relates to Jacoby's contract (and I'm absolutely not convinced that there is) and he were cut, the salary cap implications would depend on the date he was released. If it's before June 1 of this year, then the entire unamortized amount would be applied to the 2012 cap. If it's on or after that date, there would be no additional impact on the 2012 cap (just the one year of regular amortization), and the remaining amount would hit the 2013 cap.

This could also be considered a possible explanation for all those who are so up in arms that Jacoby hasn't already been cut - it could be a salary cap issue (or it could be that there is no unamortized bonus and they are just acting like typical fans).

Texn4life
01-24-2012, 10:41 PM
I know us much about the salary cap and NFL contracts as I know about the menstrual cycle of a gorilla. I have no idea who's right or wrong about the whole thing. I'm just praying that John McClain was right.

Carr Bombed
01-24-2012, 11:34 PM
I liked CBS' house cleaning in this thread

Hmm... so is that how F.O.R.O.J. knows Jacoby. Is he Jacoby's house keeper?

If not, then what "house cleaning" are you talking about. All he's done is spout off ridiculous B.S. excuses for a player that has been nothing, but accumulation of failure.

Carr Bombed
01-24-2012, 11:39 PM
Ok, so a bunch of ya ll say Jones' has got to go. Who are you replacing him with?

Keeping in mind that releasing Jones is 2.4 million dollars out the door with nothing to show for it.

So now you need a WR who can return punts reliably. Remember, he had zero muffed punts all season.


???????

Umm.. how about a rookie? There are rookies that come into this league every season that far exceed jacoby's level of play. This is a very deep draft at the WR position. I have no doubt that we would be able to find a player who can be a better player from day 1 and a player that has the potential to grow into a consistent starter.

You act like it'd be hard to replace a player like Jacoby...teams cut WRs every season who are more consistent. The guy is as replaceable as they come.

Blake
01-25-2012, 08:19 AM
Umm.. how about a rookie? There are rookies that come into this league every season that far exceed jacoby's level of play. This is a very deep draft at the WR position. I have no doubt that we would be able to find a player who can be a better player from day 1 and a player that has the potential to grow into a consistent starter.

You act like it'd be hard to replace a player like Jacoby...teams cut WRs every season who are more consistent. The guy is as replaceable as they come.

A rookie is going to far exceed Jones' level of play or be more consistent? Did you actually verify that, or just make an assumption?

Of the 5 NFL players who returned punts over 40 times in the regular season, only Jacoby Jones and Marc Mariani had zero fumbles. Brandon Tate had 1, rookie Patrick Peterson had 3, and Leon Washington had 2. Jones and Peterson tied with 5 returns over 40 yards, and all had 1 touchdown except Peterson who had 4. Of course, peterson is a DB who was taken #5 overall.

Of those 5 punt returners, 3 were WR's. Bradon Tate had zero receptions, Marc Mariani had 5 receptions for 24 yards and zero TD's, and Jones had 31 receptions for 512 yards and 2 TD's.

Lets take a look at rookie WR's who handled more than 20 punts. Jeremy Kerley had 29 returns, fumbled 3 times. Randall Cobb had 26 and fumbled 2 times. Darius Moore had 25 and fumbled 1 time.

So for you to say that we could draft a rookie WR who would returns punts and will far exceed Jones level of play, while being more consistent just shows me that your thinking is very flawed.

Blake
01-25-2012, 08:30 AM
I have not seen anything to suggest that it will be cost effective to keep him next year.

Yeha. Until we can physically look at Jone's contract we wont know. Just have to wait and see what the front office does...

2012Champs
01-25-2012, 09:50 AM
Hmm... so is that how F.O.R.O.J. knows Jacoby. Is he Jacoby's house keeper?

If not, then what "house cleaning" are you talking about. All he's done is spout off ridiculous B.S. excuses for a player that has been nothing, but accumulation of failure.



He clearly got under your skin which really is enough to clean house with you in yalls debate back and forth not to mention he was just posting facts about JJ, his season(s), Yates and our last playoff game. Its been entertaining to watch you run in circles trying to nip at him

silvrhand
01-25-2012, 10:05 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zrjuYgZKUns/Tqn-HYcFalI/AAAAAAAABv8/R1NW_WFYsO4/s1600/beat_dead_horse2.jpg

infantrycak
01-25-2012, 12:41 PM
He is making $3 million guaranteed. $3 million guaranteed has nothing to do with injury. If they think he could miss time for injury, it will likely not be including in the guaranteed figure. Got it?

It isn't nearly as simple as you are making it out to be. Guaranteed money can come in the form of (1) a signing bonus (guaranteed because it is paid when the player signs - got it?) which gets prorated over the life of the contract, (2) a roster bonus (generally reported as guaranteed money but often isn't - contrast Antoine Winfield's roster bonus paid a few days after he signed his contract and Peyton Manning's where the $28 mil roster bonus was reported as guaranteed and it is not) which is not prorated, or (3) guaranteed salaries. Now pay attention here since this seems so elusive to you. Guaranteed salaries can have different guarantees. Really not tough - Honda and Ford don't have the same guarantees on their vehicles. Some are no matter what no matter where you play no matter whether we have cut you your pay in 2012 and 2013 will be X and Y. Some are guarantees only for injury - we can cut you and not owe X and Y for 2012 and 2013 unless you are injured. Some are almost entirely fake guarantees which are essentially if we keep you you'll make X in 2012 - see Manning. Manning has a five year contract with $54 mil "guaranteed" except the only way it is a five year contract is if they pay $28 mil of that "guaranteed" money this March which they don't have to do.

Whether or not it was paid out this season is questionable. But if we did, it is not likely that the $3 million counted against the cap this year. So therefore, we will still have $2.4 million prorated over 2 years counting against our cap space.

Dead money isn't prorated like that.

If his guaranteed money was a signing bonus then 2/3rds will go on this year's cap (unless they exercise the June 1st option).

If his guaranteed money was a roster bonus then none will go on this year's cap - it was all on last year.

If his guaranteed money was his first year's salary then none will go on this year's cap - it was all on last year.

If his guaranteed money was his first year's salary and some portion of the second season then the portion will go on this year's cap.

No we do actually know this. We know that he got $3 million guaranteed. Nobody can deny this. Even if he gets paid up front, it will not count as $3 million against the cap THIS YEAR (because it didn't). So if he got $3 million for this year alone, then where does this money go. It gets prorated. So even if we release him, it will count as $2.4 million against the cap for the next 2 years.

How money gets paid affects how it is accounted for on the cap. ONLY signing bonus money gets prorated.

This is from rotoworld on Antoine Winfield:

7/23/2009: Signed a five-year, $36 million contract. The deal contains $16.1 million guaranteed, including his first-year base salary. Another $1.4 million is available in "likely to be earned" first-year incentives. A de-escalator kicked in for 2011, reducing Winfield's salaries to $3 million due to reduced playing time because of injuries. 2012: $3 million, 2013: $3 million, 2014: Free Agent

They paid him a roster bonus which all went on the 2009 cap and guaranteed his first year salary (which was essentially meaningless for a vet of his seniority since if he was on the roster on day 1 of the season his salary became guaranteed) - but in any event all of his guaranteed money went onto the cap for his first year. Note they also built in a clause about playing time.

Bottom line is there is conflicting information on JJ and we don't really know the cap consequence of cutting him.

The other bottom line is this is all a little overblown. The Texans had about $13 mil in dead money in 2008 for players like Dom Davis, McKinney, Wong, Babin, etc. Prior years were even worse with big hits for Walker, Wade, Payne, Robaire etc.

thunderkyss
01-25-2012, 04:55 PM
Umm.. how about a rookie? There are rookies that come into this league every season that far exceed jacoby's level of play. This is a very deep draft at the WR position. I have no doubt that we would be able to find a player who can be a better player from day 1 and a player that has the potential to grow into a consistent starter.

You act like it'd be hard to replace a player like Jacoby...teams cut WRs every season who are more consistent. The guy is as replaceable as they come.

Now that we don't have to invest so much towards our defense, hopefully we will draft a few WRs to take his spot.

However, unless we're drafting two WRs from the first & second rounds, I hope they at least keep Jj through camp to make sure we have someone who can replace him.

cbs1507
01-25-2012, 05:58 PM
@infantrycak

Everything I have argued with you was based on information I got from a source (you know the one you asked for me to present where I got my information from).

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/cap-hit/houston-texans/wide-receiver/

This is where the argument over the $2.4 million dead cap space came from. It's irrelevant how you are throwing all these hypothetical situations to insinuate I was "overlooking" these when in fact what you are saying has NOTHING to do with the original statement. You already admitted that you have no idea about Jacoby's contract, I just presented a scenario that would hold true if in fact the information from my source is accurate. I already said that there is conflicting information about Jacoby's contract and I presented the conflicting sources (something you apparently ignored). So why you decided to carry this discussion out, I have no idea.

No NFL contract is guaranteed but guaranteed money in a contract is guaranteed. There is no such thing as a roster bonus or salary being "guaranteed", because teams can cut a player at any time (under provisions in the CBA). If there is a condition to get money in a contract it is not likely included in the guaranteed figure. If it is guaranteed the player is entitled to it barring any stipulations. A contract can be protected against injury, skill and cap. If you have all 3 then your money is fully guaranteed. No team is foolish enough to give players full protection on the entire contract, so that is why you usually see a portion of the contract guaranteed. The portion that is not included, can be subject to any stipulation. But if it guaranteed, it most likely has all 3. Of course the sources are in conflict, and I have no source that tells us what protection he has, but the $3 million guaranteed has this protection.

BTW I was wrong in saying that if we cut Jacoby the leftover guaranteed money would be prorated over the next 2 seasons. Actually, it is the entire amount would count against this year's cap. Which is the reason teams do not like to give out too much guaranteed money in contracts, and instead opt attach stipulations (if any at all) to the portions that are not guaranteed. Since Jacoby has $3 million guaranteed in his contract, then if we cut him this season whatever portion that did not count against the cap last year would count entirely towards 2012 season cap and not prorated.

thunderkyss
01-25-2012, 06:13 PM
@infantrycak

BTW I was wrong in saying that if we cut Jacoby the leftover guaranteed money would be prorated over the next 2 seasons. Actually, it the entire amount would count against this year's cap. Which is the reason teams do not like to give out too much guaranteed money in contracts, and attach stipulations to the portions that are not guaranteed. So essentially since Jacoby has $3 million guaranteed in his contract, whatever portion that did not count against the cap would count entirely towards 2012 season cap and not prorated (my fault).

infantrycak is right on this one. We have to know how the contract is structured, & the nature of the guaranteed money.

There is also such a thing as guaranteed for injury, which would pay the player a certain amount in the case of injury. If the player is healthy & cut from the team, the team owes him nothing.

If you are arguing that Jj's cap hit was $600K, there is no way there can be any dead money left on our books if he were cut.

The only way we can have dead money, would be if we gave him a signing bonus of $3M. If we were to do that, his cap hit would have been $1M + his 2011 salary, or $1.6M, leaving $1.4M of prorated bonus. That $1.4M would be dead money if we cut Jj

The proof infantrycak has been asking you for pertains to the structure of Jj's contract. You have not provided it, but you present your $2.4M dead money argument as if you had.

Guaranteed money in the NFL means nothing if it is not a signing bonus.

thunderkyss
01-25-2012, 06:57 PM
BTW I was wrong in saying that if we cut Jacoby the leftover guaranteed money would be prorated over the next 2 seasons. Actually, it is the entire amount would count against this year's cap.

Have you provided evidence to support this statement yet? I do not believe so, which is the reason people keep telling you you have not provided anything to support the bolded statement.

You seem to have a problem understanding guaranteed money is not truly guaranteed. If Jj is guaranteed $3M in salary in 2012, but the Texans cut him before the date set in the CBA, there is no

I repeat, no dead money applied to the Texans' cap number.

Dead money is only generated if a player is given a signing bonus that is prorated over the life of the contract (I do believe a team can elect to apply the entire signing bonus to that year's cap, but that's a different story).

No signing bonus, no dead money.

So you have to prove there was a signing bonus.

If you maintain Jacoby's salary $600K was his cap hit, that means there was no bonus.

If there was no bonus, there is no way the Texans can be charged with "dead money" for Jacoby Jones in 2012.

cbs1507
01-25-2012, 07:23 PM
Have you provided evidence to support this statement yet? I do not believe so, which is the reason people keep telling you you have not provided anything to support the bolded statement.

You seem to have a problem understanding guaranteed money is not truly guaranteed. If Jj is guaranteed $3M in salary in 2012, but the Texans cut him before the date set in the CBA, there is no

I repeat, no dead money applied to the Texans' cap number.

Dead money is only generated if a player is given a signing bonus that is prorated over the life of the contract (I do believe a team can elect to apply the entire signing bonus to that year's cap, but that's a different story).

No signing bonus, no dead money.

So you have to prove there was a signing bonus.

If you maintain Jacoby's salary $600K was his cap hit, that means there was no bonus.

If there was no bonus, there is no way the Texans can be charged with "dead money" for Jacoby Jones in 2012.

Well his cap hit was $600k. That included the signing bonus of $450k, which was prorated at $150k per year. That's where the $600k figure came from ($450k base salary + $150k prorated signing bonus= $600k cap hit).

Jacoby's contract details (minus the extra technical stuff)
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/jacoby-jones/

I am aware that signing bonuses is the only guaranteed money. I am also aware that the only way to protect salary is against injury, skill or cap. It is my understanding that the guaranteed figure includes the signing bonus of $450k and all money protected by all 3 exceptions, which means that the $3 million in Jacoby's contract fully guaranteed (protected against injury, skill, and cap). Otherwise it is not guaranteed if there any stipulations (lack of protection against 1 or more against injury, skill, cap). If you have anything to prove otherwise I would be glad to review it.

Carr Bombed
01-25-2012, 08:12 PM
A rookie is going to far exceed Jones' level of play or be more consistent? Did you actually verify that, or just make an assumption?

Of the 5 NFL players who returned punts over 40 times in the regular season, only Jacoby Jones and Marc Mariani had zero fumbles. Brandon Tate had 1, rookie Patrick Peterson had 3, and Leon Washington had 2. Jones and Peterson tied with 5 returns over 40 yards, and all had 1 touchdown except Peterson who had 4. Of course, peterson is a DB who was taken #5 overall.

Of those 5 punt returners, 3 were WR's. Bradon Tate had zero receptions, Marc Mariani had 5 receptions for 24 yards and zero TD's, and Jones had 31 receptions for 512 yards and 2 TD's.

Lets take a look at rookie WR's who handled more than 20 punts. Jeremy Kerley had 29 returns, fumbled 3 times. Randall Cobb had 26 and fumbled 2 times. Darius Moore had 25 and fumbled 1 time.

So for you to say that we could draft a rookie WR who would returns punts and will far exceed Jones level of play, while being more consistent just shows me that your thinking is very flawed.

:spit:

I'm not talking about "punt returns" when I talk about a rookie supplanting Jacoby Jones, LOL.

I'm talking about something called being a "actual WR". We didn't spend a 3rd round pick on Jacoby Jones to top out as just a "punt returner" 6 years into his career. :rolleyes:

I am sorry that you got the wrong impression and had to waste all the time looking up punt return stats though.

Carr Bombed
01-25-2012, 08:17 PM
He clearly got under your skin which really is enough to clean house with you in yalls debate back and forth not to mention he was just posting facts about JJ, his season(s), Yates and our last playoff game. Its been entertaining to watch you run in circles trying to nip at him

LOL, you think this guy got under my skin... Bwahahahaha! :ahhaha:


:fingergun: Hey bud, you might want to check who's sending who private messages here like a little drama queen. Just logged on and the queen has been hitting up my P.M. box

This dude doesn't have me "running in circles". He's the one who's been "running around" putting out Jacoby fires. Gee I wonder why?

P.S.

Does anybody else here find it strange that we now have newbs signing up to defend Jacoby? Hmm.... makes you think huh? Must be a family affair. :)

cbs1507
01-25-2012, 08:37 PM
:spit:

I'm not talking about "punt returns" when I talk about a rookie supplanting Jacoby Jones, LOL.

I'm talking about something called being a "actual WR". We didn't spend a 3rd round pick on Jacoby Jones to top out as just a "punt returner" 6 years into his career. :rolleyes:

I am sorry that you got the wrong impression and had to waste all the time looking up punt return stats though.

CB you may be right but can you actually find examples of rookie WR's "supplanting" Jacoby Jones. Mind you he MUST be a 3rd round pick or lower (preferably since 2007). You won't find many. BTW alot of WRs taken in the 3rd round or lower are drafted as PR/KR project that have potential to contribute as receivers someday. They definitely aren't drafted to be franchise guys. It's usually hit or miss, and there's probably more miss than hit.

thunderkyss
01-25-2012, 08:59 PM
Well his cap hit was $600k. That included the signing bonus of $450k, which was prorated at $150k per year. That's where the $600k figure came from ($450k base salary + $150k prorated signing bonus= $600k cap hit).

With $450K prorated over 3 years, there should be $300K of dead money if Jacoby is cut, according to those numbers.... which your link does support.

Jacoby's contract details (minus the extra technical stuff)
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/jacoby-jones/

I am aware that signing bonuses is the only guaranteed money. I am also aware that the only way to protect salary is against injury, skill or cap. It is my understanding that the guaranteed figure includes the signing bonus of $450k and all money protected by all 3 exceptions, which means that the $3 million in Jacoby's contract fully guaranteed (protected against injury, skill, and cap). Otherwise it is not guaranteed if there any stipulations (lack of protection against 1 or more against injury, skill, cap). If you have anything to prove otherwise I would be glad to review it.

We can't. There is no link, that we can find that spells out the details of Jacoby's contract. That is our point.

The link you provided does not (unless I'm not looking at it right) tell us "how" the contract is guaranteed. It doesn't really go into the structure much at all.

It does say his average salary is $3.5M.... with a salary of base of $450K in 2011, I find it hard to believe, but have no reason to believe otherwise.

regardless how the money is guaranteed, unless it was a $3M signing bonus, there will be no dead money. Your link actually proves our point.... the signing bonus was not $3M.

DocBar
01-25-2012, 09:03 PM
Dead money is good money where Jones is concerned. Get this POS off of my football team.
I guess I'll have to get some of my 401K money out and buy stock in the team so I can go all Donald Trump and fire his ass.

cbs1507
01-25-2012, 09:17 PM
With $450K prorated over 3 years, there should be $300K of dead money if Jacoby is cut, according to those numbers.... which your link does support.


We can't. There is no link, that we can find that spells out the details of Jacoby's contract. That is our point.

The link you provided does not (unless I'm not looking at it right) tell us "how" the contract is guaranteed. It doesn't really go into the structure much at all.

It does say his average salary is $3.5M.... with a salary of base of $450K in 2011, I find it hard to believe, but have no reason to believe otherwise.

regardless how the money is guaranteed, unless it was a $3M signing bonus, there will be no dead money. Your link actually proves our point.... the signing bonus was not $3M.

He signed a 3 year $10.5 million contract ($10.5 million/3=$3.5 million a year). $10.5 million is not guaranteed. $3 million (of the $10.5 million) is guaranteed. Whatever your definition of guaranteed is apply it there. I am saying Jacoby Jones is guaranteed $3 million of the total contract of $10.5 million. Even if there are any stipulations, there are only 3 possible restrictions on getting the $3 million. They are injury, skill and cap. Otherwise the money is not guaranteed (the remaining $7.5 million is likely incentive and is not guaranteed). If someone gets guaranteed money it will include 1 if not more of those listed protections. The only way we are cleared of the $3 million is if he violates one that he is not protected by. Has he violated one yet? Mind you he is protected by at least one of them. If I had to guess 1, I'm willing to bet that he at least got injury protection.

thunderkyss
01-25-2012, 09:31 PM
They are injury, skill and cap. Otherwise the money is not guaranteed (the remaining $7.5 million is likely incentive and is not guaranteed). If someone gets guaranteed money it will include 1 if not more of those listed protections. The only way we are cleared of the $3 million is if he violates one that he is not protected by. Has he violated one yet? Mind you he is protected by at least one of them.

Let's say it is guaranteed for injury only.

The Texans bring in 5 WRs in the offseason. 4 of those make the team, Jacoby does not.

Does he get any money? Does anything go against the cap?

We do not know what his guarantee is, so we can't say what kind of dead money we will incur.

cbs1507
01-25-2012, 09:57 PM
Let's say it is guaranteed for injury only.

The Texans bring in 5 WRs in the offseason. 4 of those make the team, Jacoby does not.

Does he get any money? Does anything go against the cap?

We do not know what his guarantee is, so we can't say what kind of dead money we will incur.

If that is his only protection I believe not. But you have to consider that we usually have 5 WRs on the the roster. I am willing to bet he can at least come in 5th place. Also keep in mind that Kubiak prefers people that are familiar with the system.

I understand we do not know his protection. But it is less speculative to suggest this than to say we will cut him (as many suggest). Reason suggests the opposite. He would have to get beat out of the 5 available spots or cause us to go over cap (his contract is cap friendly). It just doesn't seem like he will violate either.

And if he gets injured...we're definitely not off the hook. Also, keep in mind you can be protected by more than 1 of these protection. It would not be out off the realm of possibility that he could be protected by more than 1. It's not like we gave him a big time contract. 3 years $10.5 million with $3 million guarantee. It is not a stretch to speculate that he is protected by 2 or even 3 of them (most likely no more than 2 injury/cap).

PapaL
01-25-2012, 10:00 PM
...smh...

thunderkyss
01-25-2012, 10:02 PM
If that is his only protection I believe not. But you have to consider that we usually have 5 WRs on the the roster. I am willing to bet he can at least come in 5th place. Also keep in mind that Kubiak prefers people that are familiar with the system.

I understand we do not know his protection. But is less speculative to suggest this than to say we will cut him (as many suggest). Reason suggests the opposite. He would have to get beat out of the 5 available spots or cause us to go over cap (his contract is cap friendly). It just doesn't seem like he will violate either.

Understood.

The argument here is about the $2.4M dead money that you kept saying would hit our books if we cut Jacoby.

Texan_Bill
01-25-2012, 10:03 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/880927/jacoby_medium.gif

:foottap:

Texan_Bill
01-25-2012, 10:06 PM
Dead money is good money where Jones is concerned. Get this POS off of my football team.
I guess I'll have to get some of my 401K money out and buy stock in the team so I can go all Donald Trump and fire his ass.

While I don't share your enthusiam in calling Jacoby a POS, I do share your enthusiam in "cutting bait" with him.... He's had five years and has not garnered his current contract... C'YA!!

CUT BAIT, NOW!!!!

cbs1507
01-25-2012, 10:09 PM
Understood.

The argument here is about the $2.4M dead money that you kept saying would hit our books if we cut Jacoby.

From my source (and many others) we can determine that Jacoby got a 3 year $10.5 million with $3 million guaranteed. From it we can determine that he received a $450k signing bonus that is prorated over the 3 years. He had a $400k salary last year. Thus he had a $600k cap hit. That leaves $2.4 million left of guaranteed money.

I provided the 3 clauses that a player can utilize to protect their guaranteed money. I provided the reasoning for why he would not violate the clauses he might not be protected by (because with $3 million guaranteed he is clearly protected by AT LEAST one of only 3 possibilities). If he does not violate any of the other 2 clauses that he is not protect from...we are on the hook for $2.4 million of dead cap space (if we cut him).

I provided plenty support. If you chose to ignore it, so be it.

Corrosion
01-25-2012, 10:11 PM
regardless how the money is guaranteed, unless it was a $3M signing bonus, there will be no dead money. Your link actually proves our point.... the signing bonus was not $3M.


You are correct , there will be NO dead money if Jacoby is cut.


Ive said several times in multiple threads .... I expect both he and Leinart to be cap casualties.

For his production Jacoby is overpaid. They can find a mid round draft pick to return punts , carry #80's helmet after practice and hold his jockstrap on Sundays.


Cant believe this thread is still going


I am providing the support. From my source (and many others) we can determine that Jacoby got a 3 year $10.5 million with $3 million guaranteed.

I provided the framework for how it is possible.
I provided the 3 clauses that a player can utilize to protect their guaranteed money.
I provided the reasoning for why he would not violate the clauses he might not be protected by.

If you chose to ignore it, so be it.


Jacoby's already gotten his guaranteed money.


You chose to argue with the wrong people ..... I have a headache from this thread.

thunderkyss
01-25-2012, 10:22 PM
While I don't share your enthusiam in calling Jacoby a POS, I do share your enthusiam in "cutting bait" with him.... He's had five years and has not garnered his current contract... C'YA!!

CUT BAIT, NOW!!!!


The minimum salaries (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/25/minimum-salaries-shoot-up-under-new-deal/) for NFL players have increased by $55,000 across the board. For 2011, that means rookies will get $375,000. Players with one year of service get $450,000. Two years of service will push the minimum to $525,000.

Players with three years of service will make a minimum of $600,000. For players with four to six years of service, the minimum salary is $685,000. Seven to nine, $810,000.

Do you know how much Jacoby made (per his new contract) in 2011?

cbs1507
01-25-2012, 10:27 PM
You are correct , there will be NO dead money if Jacoby is cut.


Ive said several times in multiple threads .... I expect both he and Leinart to be cap casualties.

For his production Jacoby is overpaid. They can find a mid round draft pick to return punts , carry #80's helmet after practice and hold his jockstrap on Sundays.


Cant believe this thread is still going





Jacoby's already gotten his guaranteed money.


You chose to argue with the wrong people ..... I have a headache from this thread.

Even if he got his $3 million upfront, it did not count against the cap last year. NFL contracts do not work that way. Most contracts are back loaded. Teams do not evenly divide a contract to be dispersed over the duration of the contact. He did not get 1/3 of his contract last season (which is probably what most of you are thinking). He got a signing bonus of $450k, which is prorated over the life of the contract ($150k per year). That means $2.5 million of the guaranteed $3 million was base salary. I guarantee you that we did not give him $2.5 million base salary last year. Therefore, if we cut him whatever has not been accounted for will be accrued in its entirety next season ($3 million guaranteed - $150k prorated signing bonus + 2011 base salary = dead cap space if we cut Jacoby this offseason).

He may just have have gotten his guaranteed money (but I have reason to believe otherwise). Anyway, I am not saying we will owe him money if we cut him. I am saying we will have dead cap space (there are some contingencies). There's a difference. Of course you would have to read my other posts to see the full spectrum because I do not feel like rehashing it.

Kaiser Toro
01-26-2012, 01:49 AM
A noob knows, what he does not know. Ignore, and troll on.

2012Champs
01-26-2012, 08:56 AM
LOL, you think this guy got under my skin... Bwahahahaha! :ahhaha:


:fingergun: Hey bud, you might want to check who's sending who private messages here like a little drama queen. Just logged on and the queen has been hitting up my P.M. box

This dude doesn't have me "running in circles". He's the one who's been "running around" putting out Jacoby fires. Gee I wonder why?

P.S.

Does anybody else here find it strange that we now have newbs signing up to defend Jacoby? Hmm.... makes you think huh? Must be a family affair. :)

I dont defend JJ. I simply think Yates played a bigger part in our loss against the Ravens. I would be just fine with JJ gone

Double Barrel
01-26-2012, 10:49 AM
A noob knows, what he does not know. Ignore, and troll on.

Duuuude, are you Cantus the Minstrel?

http://www.acartoonchristmas.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/fraggle-cantus.jpg

kingh99
01-28-2012, 06:59 PM
Re-watching the game right now. Just damn. Texans start off poised to kick Raven ass. Then BOOM. Surely the kids of the coaches and owner will tell them to do what has to be done.

clutch
01-28-2012, 07:19 PM
just cut the guy...his 3 million can go toward Foster and Marios contracts..

thunderkyss
01-28-2012, 08:27 PM
just cut the guy...his 3 million can go toward Foster and Marios contracts..

Exactly.....


except his salary for 2011 was $470K, in 2012, he might break $800K..

in other words, he'll probably never see a $3M cap number.

Joe Texan
01-29-2012, 12:41 PM
I dont defend JJ. I simply think Yates played a bigger part in our loss against the Ravens. I would be just fine with JJ gone

TJYates is the third string QB who stepped in because Jeff Garcia forgot to leave the old folks home knuckle head.

Jones is a 5 year vet who is constantly having issues with handling the ball on punts. I guess he was dipping his crab in melted butter waiting to go in but the deal is he is a five year veteran with problems, not a rookie with problems, A rookie with problems we can fix, Jacoby has cooked his goose

cbs1507
01-29-2012, 12:54 PM
TJYates is the third string QB who stepped in because Jeff Garcia forgot to leave the old folks home knuckle head.

Jones is a 5 year vet who is constantly having issues with handling the ball on punts. I guess he was dipping his crab in melted butter waiting to go in but the deal is he is a five year veteran with problems, not a rookie with problems, A rookie with problems we can fix, Jacoby has cooked his goose

Another outlandish claim. Other than his bad year in 2008 (4 fumbles), he only has 3 fumbles in the other 4 years. He had 1 fumble in his rookie season and 2 fumbles in 2009. He finished the 2009 season with 11 consecutive games without a fumble. He then carried this streak of ZERO fumbles for 44 consecutive games prior to our loss against the Ravens. So much for "having trouble handling the ball on punts."

Rep please (positive). If anybody has the audacity to make a claim with no proof and I debunk it I think I deserve it. ;)

Edit: I didn't think it was that serious to ask for rep. I feel like I made a good point that was backed with FACT and not talking out of my arsecrack like some people on here. Ok sue me, i'm guilty of feeling myself (forgive me). Look if you don't agree you don't have to give me rep (positive). But to give me negative rep is childish. Just because you don't like the guy doesn't mean you have to give out neg. rep when I make a valid point you can't deny. Oh well.

BTW I spread rep back so I don't see what's the big deal.

thunderkyss
01-29-2012, 01:12 PM
Rep please. If anybody has the audacity to make a claim with no proof and I debunk it I deserve it. ;)

I was just about to rep you till I read this last statement.

We'll let you know when you deserve it.

:roast:

Carr Bombed
01-29-2012, 02:07 PM
I was just about to rep you till I read this last statement.

We'll let you know when you deserve it.

:roast:

I repped him... too bad he didn't clarify if he wanted a positive or negative rep. :lol:

Texn4life
01-29-2012, 02:29 PM
Another outlandish claim. Other than his bad year in 2008 (4 fumbles), he only has 3 fumbles in the other 4 years. He had 1 fumble in his rookie season and 2 fumbles in 2009. He finished the 2009 season with 11 consecutive games without a fumble. He then carried this streak of ZERO fumbles for 44 consecutive games prior to our loss against the Ravens. So much for "having trouble handling the ball on punts."

Rep please (positive). If anybody has the audacity to make a claim with no proof and I debunk it I think I deserve it. ;)


Begging for rep? Seriously? I think this has to be the first time I've seen that on this board. You've reached an all-time low my friend. Now you and Jacoby have something in common.

DocBar
01-29-2012, 07:31 PM
Another outlandish claim. Other than his bad year in 2008 (4 fumbles), he only has 3 fumbles in the other 4 years. He had 1 fumble in his rookie season and 2 fumbles in 2009. He finished the 2009 season with 11 consecutive games without a fumble. He then carried this streak of ZERO fumbles for 44 consecutive games prior to our loss against the Ravens. So much for "having trouble handling the ball on punts."

Rep please (positive). If anybody has the audacity to make a claim with no proof and I debunk it I think I deserve it. ;)

Edit: I didn't think it was that serious to ask for rep. I feel like I made a good point that was backed with FACT and not talking out of my arsecrack like some people on here. Ok sue me, i'm guilty of feeling myself (forgive me). Look if you don't agree you don't have to give me rep (positive). But to give me negative rep is childish. Just because you don't like the guy doesn't mean you have to give out neg. rep when I make a valid point you can't deny. Oh well.

BTW I spread rep back so I don't see what's the big deal.My problem with Jones is that he's consistently inconsistence and has a propensity for making bone-headed plays. He doesn't perform as a receiver and will make as many poor to awful punt returns as he does good ones.
I was on the ditch Jones bandwagon last offseason, as many others were, last offseason. This is not a knee jerk reaction for a lot of us.

2012Champs
01-30-2012, 07:20 AM
TJYates is the third string QB who stepped in because Jeff Garcia forgot to leave the old folks home knuckle head.

Jones is a 5 year vet who is constantly having issues with handling the ball on punts. I guess he was dipping his crab in melted butter waiting to go in but the deal is he is a five year veteran with problems, not a rookie with problems, A rookie with problems we can fix, Jacoby has cooked his goose



Make your excuses where you want to. I dont care who has been on the team for X number of year. Get read of Jones. After that Yates played a bigger part in our loss and the end to our season.

Rey
01-30-2012, 08:54 AM
When Schaub was at QB Jacoby has done ok for himself.

Anybody think Jacoby's lack of production this year had anything to do with a rookie QB throwing him the ball?

Yeah, he f'd up in the play-offs on that return...That was a big mistake and even though he hadn't fumbled all season long THAT mistake will linger in peoples' minds.

If they keep Jacoby, I'd understand (although I lean towards wanting him gone)...If they cut him, I'd understand that too. I won't complain either way though.

But they definitely should look to upgrade the WR position.

Texan_Bill
01-30-2012, 09:00 AM
When Schaub was at QB Jacoby has done ok for himself.

Anybody think Jacoby's lack of production this year had anything to do with a rookie QB throwing him the ball?

Yeah, he f'd up in the play-offs on that return...That was a big mistake and even though he hadn't fumbled all season long THAT mistake will linger in peoples' minds.

If they keep Jacoby, I'd understand (although I lean towards wanting him gone)...If they cut him, I'd understand that too. I won't complain either way though.

But they definitely should look to upgrade the WR position.

A bit revisionist. Andre went out in week 5 and Schaub went down week 10. Where was Jacoby those 5 weeks? He had 14 receptions in those 5 weeks.

2012Champs
01-30-2012, 09:17 AM
A bit revisionist. Andre went out in week 5 and Schaub went down week 10. Where was Jacoby those 5 weeks? He had 14 receptions in those 5 weeks.


how many targets did he have?

Rey
01-30-2012, 09:22 AM
A bit revisionist. Andre went out in week 5 and Schaub went down week 10. Where was Jacoby those 5 weeks? He had 14 receptions in those 5 weeks.

That averages out to about 3 receptions a game. That's not bad at all...

How many receptions did KW, OD, Dreesen have during that same 5 week time period?


He's not a #2 receiver...Really, he's not even a #3. OD is the #2 receiver on the team and KW is the starter at the #2 receiver. Really Jacoby is somewhere between #3 and #4 receiving option when AJ is healthy. When he's not healthy he moves up to #2 or #3 maybe..


Matt's completion percentage this year was lower than it's been since his first year here, although he was hitting on more big plays than he ever had.

I clearly stated that I leaned towards Jacoby being cut. But that said, I am going to look at the whole picture. Jacoby made a stupid play, he's not a great WR, but he is not awful either.

Texan_Bill
01-30-2012, 09:24 AM
That averages out to about 3 receptions a game. That's not bad at all...

How many receptions did KW, OD, Dreesen have during that same 5 week time period?


He's not a #2 receiver...Really, he's not even a #3. OD is the #2 receiver on the team and KW is the starter at the #2 receiver. Really Jacoby is somewhere between #3 and #4 receiving option when AJ is healthy. When he's not healthy he moves up to #2 or #3 maybe..


Matt's completion percentage this year was lower than it's been since his first year here, although he was hitting on more big plays than he ever had.

I clearly stated that I leaned towards Jacoby being cut. But that said, I am going to look at the whole picture. Jacoby made a stupid play, he's not a great WR, but he is not awful either.

For an alleged #1 receiver, just under three receptions is terrible. 5 receptions a game gets you 80 over a 16 game season.

Rey
01-30-2012, 09:30 AM
For an alleged #1 receiver, just under three receptions is terrible. 5 receptions a game gets you 80 over a 16 game season.

Who calls him a #1 receiver?

More importantly, when has Jacoby ever been treated like a #1 receiver?

2012Champs
01-30-2012, 09:33 AM
That averages out to about 3 receptions a game. That's not bad at all...

How many receptions did KW, OD, Dreesen have during that same 5 week time period?


He's not a #2 receiver...Really, he's not even a #3. OD is the #2 receiver on the team and KW is the starter at the #2 receiver. Really Jacoby is somewhere between #3 and #4 receiving option when AJ is healthy. When he's not healthy he moves up to #2 or #3 maybe..


Matt's completion percentage this year was lower than it's been since his first year here, although he was hitting on more big plays than he ever had.

I clearly stated that I leaned towards Jacoby being cut. But that said, I am going to look at the whole picture. Jacoby made a stupid play, he's not a great WR, but he is not awful either.



the last 3 games Yates wasnt going to throw to anyone more than 5 yards out 99% of the time

2012Champs
01-30-2012, 09:37 AM
Who calls him a #1 receiver?

More importantly, when has Jacoby ever been treated like a #1 receiver?



never

Mr. White
01-30-2012, 09:47 AM
how many targets did he have?

Just an aside...

Been looking, but I have yet to find a website that shows targets on the stat line. I'd appreciate anyone that can point me to one.

Texan_Bill
01-30-2012, 09:57 AM
Just an aside...

Been looking, but I have yet to find a website that shows targets on the stat line. I'd appreciate anyone that can point me to one.


Maybe this will help you out:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards/seasontype/2

Texan_Bill
01-30-2012, 10:08 AM
Who calls him a #1 receiver?

More importantly, when has Jacoby ever been treated like a #1 receiver?

He's our #1 (allegedly) when AJ is down because it certainly isn't Walter.


AJ 33 receptions and targeted 51 times.

JJ 31 receptions and targeted 64 times.

Mr. White
01-30-2012, 10:09 AM
Maybe this will help you out:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards/seasontype/2

MSR. How have I missed that all this time? Thanks bro.

Now how about targets on an individual game basis?

Texan_Bill
01-30-2012, 10:22 AM
MSR. How have I missed that all this time? Thanks bro.

Now how about targets on an individual game basis?

Sorry man. That's one I can't find, but I'll keep trying.

Rey
01-30-2012, 10:23 AM
He's our #1 (allegedly) when AJ is down because it certainly isn't Walter.

I've never actually heard the team say that. Maybe Kubiak has and I just have missed it.

But if that is the case that seems a little dysfuntional to me. You go from being the #3 or #4 guy to the #1?

And still, being moved up a slot because of injury doesn't mean you are treated the same way the guy before you was treated. I don't think anyone expected Jacoby to step in and play at Dre's level.

Mr. White
01-30-2012, 10:27 AM
Sorry man. That's one I can't find, but I'll keep trying.

I've been looking for the past 2 years for that one for my fantasy teams. You would think they're out there somewhere because the talking heads always reference them.

Mr. White
01-30-2012, 10:38 AM
Sorry man. That's one I can't find, but I'll keep trying.

Just found a decent one.

Here's (http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playeryear.php?playerid=12-J.Jones&pos=WR&year=) Jacoby's page for the 2011 season.

65 targets, 31 receptions. He's ranked #60 in receptions per target.

Texan_Bill
01-30-2012, 10:45 AM
Just found a decent one.

Here's (http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playeryear.php?playerid=12-J.Jones&pos=WR&year=) Jacoby's page for the 2011 season.

65 targets, 31 receptions. He's ranked #60 in receptions per target.

Great find. I like the OAK game where he was targeted 11 times and had one reception. :gun:

Mr. White
01-30-2012, 10:51 AM
Just found a decent one.

Here's (http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playeryear.php?playerid=12-J.Jones&pos=WR&year=) Jacoby's page for the 2011 season.

65 targets, 31 receptions. He's ranked #60 in receptions per target.

By the way, Kevin Walter went 39 for 59. He's ranked #13.

thunderkyss
01-30-2012, 11:48 AM
If they keep Jacoby, I'd understand (although I lean towards wanting him gone)...If they cut him, I'd understand that too. I won't complain either way though.

But they definitely should look to upgrade the WR position.

I agree on all points. Won't cry if they cut Jacoby. But he's so cheap, he pretty much made the league minimum in 2011, I can't see them cutting him.

Need a receiver, a real #2 receiver, or OD needs to be that weapon we all think he is.

True, if Schaub had not gone down, OD may have been that guy, Jj & KDub's numbers may have been where they "need" to be.

But..... Jacoby produced what his contract said he "should" 3-4 WR numbers. He made two plays this year that shows you how we need to use him, that TD in Baltimore on Reed, & the first play of the Tampa game where he shook two defenders & ran 60+ yards for a TD.

He had other opportunities where he fell short... more than not. But I'd rather have Jacoby Jones than Lance More or Robert Meachum. Neither of them could have made the two plays I'm talking about, & neither return punts (not that Jj needs to be doing that any more).

MistaRed
01-30-2012, 12:09 PM
TK that was the Tampa Bay game where Jacoby scored on the first play.

drs23
01-30-2012, 02:25 PM
TK that was the Tampa Bay game where Jacoby scored on the first play.

Thanks for pointing that out. IIRC, they ran the same play against Cincy and the ball went right through his hands.

thunderkyss
01-30-2012, 04:42 PM
Thanks for pointing that out. IIRC, they ran the same play against Cincy and the ball went right through his hands.

Different play, but yes.... right through his hands.

Not trying to change anyone's opinion, but the way it is presented here is as if this does not happen to other WRs..... more than others, maybe.

Dutchrudder
02-02-2012, 06:49 PM
I was looking for contract info on JJ and stumbled across this hilarious thread about women JJ slept with:

http://www.lipstickalley.com/f154/hoes-you-know-slept-jacoby-jones-215738/

:lol:

Mr. White
02-02-2012, 07:35 PM
I was looking for contract info on JJ and stumbled across this hilarious thread about women JJ slept with:

http://www.lipstickalley.com/f154/hoes-you-know-slept-jacoby-jones-215738/

:lol:

Sheer epic.

gafftop
02-03-2012, 02:02 PM
I agree on all points. Won't cry if they cut Jacoby. But he's so cheap, he pretty much made the league minimum in 2011, I can't see them cutting him. Need a receiver, a real #2 receiver, or OD needs to be that weapon we all think he is.

True, if Schaub had not gone down, OD may have been that guy, Jj & KDub's numbers may have been where they "need" to be.

But..... Jacoby produced what his contract said he "should" 3-4 WR numbers. He made two plays this year that shows you how we need to use him, that TD in Baltimore on Reed, & the first play of the Tampa game where he shook two defenders & ran 60+ yards for a TD.

He had other opportunities where he fell short... more than not. But I'd rather have Jacoby Jones than Lance More or Robert Meachum. Neither of them could have made the two plays I'm talking about, & neither return punts (not that Jj needs to be doing that any more).

I also see Jacoby here next year. OD is good don't get me wrong and he might come back in better health next year but he is above average only now as a TE.

Blake
02-03-2012, 02:08 PM
I also see Jacoby here next year. OD is good don't get me wrong and he might come back in better health next year but he is above average only now as a TE.

If Jones was paid 3.5 mill this past season then he is a cap casualty. If he was paid 617k then he has a good shot to stay on the team.

Hervoyel
02-04-2012, 01:38 PM
742 posts in this thread and Jacoby Jones still hasn't been cut? I'm starting to think that the Texans aren't reading this board or basing their decisions on what we want. Amazing.

thunderkyss
02-04-2012, 01:55 PM
742 posts in this thread and Jacoby Jones still hasn't been cut? I'm starting to think that the Texans aren't reading this board or basing their decisions on what we want. Amazing.

How many players have been cut, across the nfl, so far this year?


744

ObsiWan
02-04-2012, 02:07 PM
742 posts in this thread and Jacoby Jones still hasn't been cut? I'm starting to think that the Texans aren't reading this board or basing their decisions on what we want. Amazing.
No waaay....
They can't be THAT short-sighted.
:D

PapaL
02-05-2012, 06:24 PM
Seeing that SuperBowl commercial w the Coca-Cola bear fumbling the bottle around reminded me of Jacoby Jones punt returns. ...smh...Still angry.

thunderkyss
02-05-2012, 09:44 PM
Seeing that SuperBowl commercial w the Coca-Cola bear fumbling the bottle around reminded me of Jacoby Jones punt returns. ...smh...Still angry.

I made a joke about the same thing.

Everyone knew exactly what I was talking about.

:kubepalm:

SheTexan
02-05-2012, 09:54 PM
Seeing that SuperBowl commercial w the Coca-Cola bear fumbling the bottle around reminded me of Jacoby Jones punt returns. ...smh...Still angry.

That's funny! I said the same thing. After watching this game I'm even more ticked off cause we could have beaten either one of these teams, WITH TJ YATES!! Oh well, we'll take over New Orleans next year and turn that town RED, WHITE, and BLUE!!

PapaL
02-06-2012, 05:40 AM
At least the bear secured the ball at the end. Wonder if he's a FA this year.

chenjy9
02-07-2012, 05:15 PM
Seeing that SuperBowl commercial w the Coca-Cola bear fumbling the bottle around reminded me of Jacoby Jones punt returns. ...smh...Still angry.

I would take the bear over JJ for the following reasons:

- Bear secured possession of the ball for a touchdown(?)
- Bear is much more scary to any opposing D than JJ
- Bear is way cooler/cuter than JJ can ever aspire to be