PDA

View Full Version : TJ Yates; Bad throws


thunderkyss
12-10-2011, 06:26 AM
I just watched TJ's first drive as our starter.

Very freak'n impressive. There were two bad throws (not counting the "fumble"), both to Andre Johnson. It's just sick how that man gets so wide open, it's not like they don't know he's coming. But two of TJ's bad throws were high, one too high, Aj couldn't bring it in. The other Aj was able to bring it down, but couldn't stay on his feet, no YAC.

Other than that, "The Kid" was extremely impressive on that first drive.

Grams
12-10-2011, 06:58 AM
I liked TJ when I saw him in preseason.

To come in cold with the 2 min offense and bring us to within scoring position was fantastic.

He was off at the beginning of the game last week, but the balls were close to the receivers. I just attribute that to some nerves. First game as a starter has to bring a few "butterflies" to the stomach. But he settled in fairly rapidly.

Haven't seen any other rookie QBs this season other than Gabbert. Gabbert has no pocket awareness and seems to have "deer in the headlight" eyes. Could be his Oline (David Carr sysdrome), but TJ seems to know when the pocket is collapsing and moves out of the way. He seems to have the intangibles needed.

Thorn
12-10-2011, 08:06 AM
Taking into account who he is and the circumstances he was forced into, Yates rocks. :)

IDEXAN
12-10-2011, 08:27 AM
How does this guy fall all the way to the 5th round ? I mean I'm not saying he should have been taken in the first round or even the second round, but all the way to the 5th round ? He's got mobility, descent arm-strength, and accuracy, and size. He's also an experienced QB as he was a multi-year starter, 3 years as a starter I'm thinking ? Don't get it ?

thunderkyss
12-10-2011, 08:36 AM
How does this guy fall all the way to the 5th round ? I mean I'm not saying he should have been taken in the first round or even the second round, but all the way to the 5th round ? He's got mobility, descent arm-strength, and accuracy, and size. He's also an experienced QB as he was a multi-year starter, 3 years as a starter I'm thinking ? Don't get it ?

From what I've read, Kubiak was in the same place as you. Couldn't believe he was there & took a flyer. But that does bring up a good question.

How do you grade 1st round QBs, & what is TJ missing?

thunderkyss
12-10-2011, 08:38 AM
I just saw the Jacoby drop. The ball was placed quite a bit to Jj's left & he had to dive & try to catch it. I'm not calling that a bad throw, because TJ was throwing around a LB. He could have thrown it the way he did, or over the LB, which is a trickier throw, most likely caused the high balls to Andre earlier.

Grams
12-10-2011, 09:31 AM
How does this guy fall all the way to the 5th round ? I mean I'm not saying he should have been taken in the first round or even the second round, but all the way to the 5th round ? He's got mobility, descent arm-strength, and accuracy, and size. He's also an experienced QB as he was a multi-year starter, 3 years as a starter I'm thinking ? Don't get it ?

4 year starter I believe.

Hervoyel
12-10-2011, 09:37 AM
How does this guy fall all the way to the 5th round ? I mean I'm not saying he should have been taken in the first round or even the second round, but all the way to the 5th round ? He's got mobility, descent arm-strength, and accuracy, and size. He's also an experienced QB as he was a multi-year starter, 3 years as a starter I'm thinking ? Don't get it ?

I've read a couple of times that his lack of a "bigtime" arm was a knock on him but I have yet to see what they were talking about. I think he's got perfectly acceptable arm-strength. Hell in that regard he's a bit of an upgrade to our starter.

dalemurphy
12-10-2011, 09:47 AM
I've read a couple of times that his lack of a "bigtime" arm was a knock on him but I have yet to see what they were talking about. I think he's got perfectly acceptable arm-strength. Hell in that regard he's a bit of an upgrade to our starter.

The reason, IMO, he was a 5th rounder instead of a 2nd or 3rd, is simply that he never got thrown into the media-hype machine at the college level or by Kiper and company. If he would've had a 4 TD game as a junior, and UNC had started 7-0 (even if they finished 8-4), he would've been talked about, garnered attention, and been in the conversation the next year. As silly as that sounds, I think the draft is often impacted by such foolishness.

michaelm
12-10-2011, 09:52 AM
After he threw those first two passes high vs ATL, I told my buddy he was rushing his throw, but would settle down. He did exactly that. Even the two high passes were on target. He was just a little amped and rushed them, IMO.

IDEXAN
12-10-2011, 09:53 AM
Anybody see Jaws (Ron Jaworski from ESPNs MNF), this past week on PTI say
he made the call on TJ in this past April NFL Draft ? Jaws alleges he and another football analyst said that TJ was the steal of the 2011 NFL Draft ? FWIW ?

2slik4u
12-10-2011, 10:06 AM
I just watched TJ's first drive as our starter.

Very freak'n impressive. There were two bad throws (not counting the "fumble"), both to Andre Johnson. It's just sick how that man gets so wide open, it's not like they don't know he's coming. But two of TJ's bad throws were high, one too high, Aj couldn't bring it in. The other Aj was able to bring it down, but couldn't stay on his feet, no YAC.

Other than that, "The Kid" was extremely impressive on that first drive.

I was talking about those throws the other day with a buddy and yes, it was clearly a bad pass made by TJ BUT they were thrown in such a way that only AJ could catch them. He was basically throwing two things out there on those plays; either a completion to AJ or an incomplete pass. He made sure no defenders would have a chance to get that ball.

When you look at it with this perspective it made me realize this kid is smarter and is grasping the idea of being an NFL QB much faster than most.

TheCD
12-10-2011, 10:20 AM
I was talking about those throws the other day with a buddy and yes, it was clearly a bad pass made by TJ BUT they were thrown in such a way that only AJ could catch them. He was basically throwing two things out there on those plays; either a completion to AJ or an incomplete pass. He made sure no defenders would have a chance to get that ball.

When you look at it with this perspective it made me realize this kid is smarter and is grasping the idea of being an NFL QB much faster than most.

This is my thought exactly. I would rather him sail them high with an outside chance that our guy gets it or no one does than dropping them in the dirt like Matt typically does. Not saying T.J. is better than,Matt, but in this game I preferred this to what Matt generally does.

I'm also really glad T.J. is coming in and playing against 3 top 10 (maybe top 5?) defenses in a row. Great way to acclimate him to the playoffs.

Thorn
12-10-2011, 10:21 AM
You know, guys and gals, here's the thing. We keep winning, and because of that we see everything through rose colored glasses. You know that's true. But still, he won his first game as a starter against a pretty good team. That does mean he was a good 5th round pick if you judge him on that alone.

thunderkyss
12-10-2011, 10:57 AM
I'm also really glad T.J. is coming in and playing against 3 top 10 (maybe top 5?) defenses in a row. Great way to acclimate him to the playoffs.

Exactly.

ObsiWan
12-10-2011, 11:16 AM
Anybody see Jaws (Ron Jaworski from ESPNs MNF), this past week on PTI say
he made the call on TJ in this past April NFL Draft ? Jaws alleges he and another football analyst said that TJ was the steal of the 2011 NFL Draft ? FWIW ?

Did Jaws post a link to this alledged prediction? You know we don't believe nuttin' unless he posts a link....
:D

Rey
12-10-2011, 11:19 AM
The reason, IMO, he was a 5th rounder instead of a 2nd or 3rd, is simply that he never got thrown into the media-hype machine at the college level or by Kiper and company. If he would've had a 4 TD game as a junior, and UNC had started 7-0 (even if they finished 8-4), he would've been talked about, garnered attention, and been in the conversation the next year. As silly as that sounds, I think the draft is often impacted by such foolishness.

I agree Dale.

TexanFan881
12-10-2011, 11:23 AM
Anybody see Jaws (Ron Jaworski from ESPNs MNF), this past week on PTI say
he made the call on TJ in this past April NFL Draft ? Jaws alleges he and another football analyst said that TJ was the steal of the 2011 NFL Draft ? FWIW ?

I can't find anything on him saying steal of the draft, but if you go back and read our reactions to the pick initially its pretty funny.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81500&highlight=Selection&page=22

Apparently some guys were saying he was guna be real good (Dilfer and Mayock).

One post from there:

ESPN guys on T.J. Yates:

Mel Kiper: Played only 1 year of HS football. Good first year, then broken ankle, ok JR year, had to win the job last year. Missed Greg Little but improved leaps and bounds. Good job spreading the field. Pocket awarness 10x better thn Gabbert. Arm strenght average.

Trent Dilfer: Can spit the ball out. Is a sleeper starter. Toughest kid at QB outside of Locker.

ObsiWan
12-10-2011, 11:26 AM
I just watched TJ's first drive as our starter.

Very freak'n impressive. There were two bad throws (not counting the "fumble"), both to Andre Johnson. It's just sick how that man gets so wide open, it's not like they don't know he's coming. But two of TJ's bad throws were high, one too high, Aj couldn't bring it in. The other Aj was able to bring it down, but couldn't stay on his feet, no YAC.



Other than that, "The Kid" was extremely impressive on that first drive.

In the interest of full disclosure, you're forgetting that attempt to Foster that would have been pick-sixed if not for Dunta's holding penalty. That was, by far, his worse throw of the day.

What I liked about that mis-play is the kid didn't get shell-shocked by it. the very next play he threw deep middle to J.Jones. Two plays later he hit KW for a first down to keep the drive going that produced the winning score.

Like Thorn pointed out, we only have a little data on the kid. But so far, so good.
:turtle:

Wolf
12-10-2011, 11:43 AM
I am not saying Yates can throw the ball as hard a Favre, but in the link provided by Texanfan with Helmet hair's quote that Yates' arm is average.

That scares me being JJ had to turn up the Juggs machine :kitten:

what kind of arm strength does THE Matt's have? below average?

thunderkyss
12-10-2011, 12:11 PM
In the interest of full disclosure, you're forgetting that attempt to Foster that would have been pick-sixed if not for Dunta's holding penalty. That was, by far, his worse throw of the day.



Uh.. I know you're smarter than me & everything, but I did specify "that first drive"

thunderkyss
12-10-2011, 12:17 PM
That scares me being JJ had to turn up the Juggs machine :kitten:

what kind of arm strength does THE Matt's have? below average?

Like Dirty Harry says, "A man has got to know his limitations"

You need a smart QB, period. That is much more important than a strong arm. You need someone who understands the game, someone who can read defenses, & someone who can think on his feet.

A QB like Matt has more than enough arm strength to be dangerous with his smarts.

Dan Orlovsky had the arm, but not enough smarts to make it dangerous.

TJ doesn't look like he has an arm like Orlovsky, or a McNabb. Stronger than Schaub's, smarter than Orlovsky..... we'll see how that plays out.

Carr Bombed
12-10-2011, 12:30 PM
In the interest of full disclosure, you're forgetting that attempt to Foster that would have been pick-sixed if not for Dunta's holding penalty. That was, by far, his worse throw of the day.

What I liked about that mis-play is the kid didn't get shell-shocked by it. the very next play he threw deep middle to J.Jones. Two plays later he hit KW for a first down to keep the drive going that produced the winning score.

Like Thorn pointed out, we only have a little data on the kid. But so far, so good.
:turtle:

Go back and look at the replay that they showed of that play though (the replay that has the angle from T.J.s point of view..it shows where he's looking at during the play)... People have said that the holding penalty had nothing to do with the play and that simply isn't true. The holding foul greatly effected the play. If you watch the replay T.J. Yates is CLEARLY looking at Kevin Walter and is trying to get him the ball..when Dunta holds him up, that's where he looks to the other side of the field and throws the INT. If Dunta never committed the foul the pick wouldn't of happened...so it's hard to harp over that pick. That was a fantastic call by the officials though (however they clearly owed us one after that HORRIBLE fumble call)


Another thing nobody has really talked about yet in this thread is T.J. Yates has only been receiving steady reps with the starters for just a couple of weeks. Before that he was just a scout team player. He's a 5th round rookie who's barely gotten any reps with the starters and he's already playing as well as he is. As each week rolls on and he gets more reps in practice and more familiar with the playbook he's only going to improve from here on out. Something tells me by season's end we're going to be watching a entirely different player.

TexanFan881
12-10-2011, 12:39 PM
I think a lot of people are expecting TJ to grow as a player and to gain more chemistry with his WRs. What people really seem to forget is that once there is actually footage of him playing in the NFL (by the time of the playoffs) defenses will be able to gameplan around his strengths and weaknesses.

Carr Bombed
12-10-2011, 12:47 PM
I think a lot of people are expecting TJ to grow as a player and to gain more chemistry with his WRs. What people really seem to forget is that once there is actually footage of him playing in the NFL (by the time of the playoffs) defenses will be able to gameplan around his strengths and weaknesses.

As long as he makes the right reads in the offense and we keep teams honest with the run game it won't matter. Our system is designed around misdirection and disguising whether or not it's a running play or passing play, since most plays look exactly the same it's hard for teams to key in on what we're doing on offense. T.J. just has to make the right reads and hit the open receiver.

The only type of weakness that can really hurt him is if he shows that he stares down receivers...he's already proven that he can avoid pressure in the pocket and get a throw off, so he's already proven that he can beat a blitz (Unlike Blaine Gabbert...which is why teams who have watched his tape now throw the kitchen sink at him on every passing play). As long as he continues to go through his progressions, he'll be fine.

CloakNNNdagger
12-10-2011, 01:02 PM
As long as he makes the right reads in the offense and we keep teams honest with the run game it won't matter. Our system is designed around misdirection and disguising whether or not it's a running play or passing play, since most plays look exactly the same it's hard for teams to key in on what we're doing on offense. T.J. just has to make the right reads and hit the open receiver.

The only type of weakness that can really hurt him is if he shows that he stares down receivers...he's already proven that he can avoid pressure in the pocket and get a throw off, so he's already proven that he can beat a blitz (Unlike Blaine Gabbert...which is why teams who have watched his tape now throw the kitchen sink at him on every passing play). As long as he continues to go through his progressions, he'll be fine.

On their last scoring drive of the game, T.J. Yates stared down Arian Foster and acted surprised when Mo Pete jumped the route and picked the pass. Experience hopefully will direct him against tunnel vision.

thunderkyss
12-10-2011, 01:05 PM
Go back and look at the replay that they showed of that play though (the replay that has the angle from T.J.s point of view..it shows where he's looking at during the play)... People have said that the holding penalty had nothing to do with the play and that simply isn't true. The holding foul greatly effected the play. If you watch the replay T.J. Yates is CLEARLY looking at Kevin Walter and is trying to get him the ball..when Dunta holds him up, that's where he looks to the other side of the field and throws the INT. If Dunta never committed the foul the pick wouldn't of happened...so it's hard to harp over that pick. That was a fantastic call by the officials though (however they clearly owed us one after that HORRIBLE fumble call)

There was another holding penalty that wasn't called. We sent someone up the middle of the field, who was also obstructed from breaking off his route.

That was TJs third read, which kinda explains the "rushed" judgement.

Another thing nobody has really talked about yet in this thread is T.J. Yates has only been receiving steady reps with the starters for just a couple of weeks. Before that he was just a scout team player. He's a 5th round rookie who's barely gotten any reps with the starters and he's already playing as well as he is. As each week rolls on and he gets more reps in practice and more familiar with the playbook he's only going to improve from here on out. Something tells me by season's end we're going to be watching a entirely different player.

I'd really like to find out what goes on in practice. The scout team... that's Tj & our backup OL? but we don't have a full back up OL, two tackles, two guards, another center.. then who is his WRs? Jacoby, Mason, & Johnson? So how do we practice 5 WR packages?

ObsiWan
12-10-2011, 01:28 PM
Uh.. I know you're smarter than me & everything, but I did specify "that first drive"

my bad. I missed that detail.

And I've never said I was smarter than you.

thunderkyss
12-10-2011, 01:30 PM
The only type of weakness that can really hurt him is if he shows that he stares down receivers...he's already proven that he can avoid pressure in the pocket and get a throw off, so he's already proven that he can beat a blitz (Unlike Blaine Gabbert...which is why teams who have watched his tape now throw the kitchen sink at him on every passing play). As long as he continues to go through his progressions, he'll be fine.

The Jags' problem (in addition to Gabbert may not be the right guy) is that they can't protect Gabbert. & that's a coaching problem. They've got a top 5 defense & a top 10 rushing attack. There is no reason why he should be called upon to "win games" the way they are asking him to.

Just like TJ, the first thing they should have told him, is if it ain't there, throw it away. The defense & the run game should be what they are leaning on.

If they can't pick up first downs through the run game, then put it on the defense to stop the other team. Same thing we are doing. Remember Tj's first game, Jacksonville, the second half.... we couldn't move the ball, we punt.

We come back against Atlanta (better than most of the teams Jacksonville lost to) & we've got a game plan that protects Tj. We're running the heck out of the ball (just like they do) & we're throwing the ball at opportune times. Quick outs, dump offs, screens, taking shots down the field off play action (same thing they should be able to do).

The biggest difference, is that our play-makers (Aj, OD, Arian) are doing what they need to do to help him out & our role players (Jj, Walter, Tate) are doing what they need to do.

Gabbert's getting the crap beat out of him & it's partially the fault of his skill guys (yeah I'm looking at you Mercedes Lewis all alone in the end-zone) not doing their job.

They're not making plays, they can't protect him.

The Pencil Neck
12-10-2011, 01:50 PM
On their last scoring drive of the game, T.J. Yates stared down Arian Foster and acted surprised when Mo Pete jumped the route and picked the pass. Experience hopefully will direct him against tunnel vision.

Wait? What?

I think we're using the term "stared down" to mean different things because according to my definition, he didn't stare Arian down at all.

To stare down a receiver (to me, and some one correct me if I'm wrong) means to watch that receiver run their entire route and never look at anyone else. Staring down a receiver means that you're not going through your progressions. You've already made your choice about who you're throwing to and you draw the defense to that receiver by not looking off of him.

On that interception, TJ made the mistake of NOT looking at his receiver before throwing the ball. He made his first read and that was at KW who was being held. He made his second read (I don't recall who that was). He tossed it to Arian without looking and checking that he was open. IIRC, he said as much in the post game.

So, according to my definition of "staring down", he did the exact opposite by not looking at his receiver at all.

Carr Bombed
12-10-2011, 02:09 PM
Wait? What?

I think we're using the term "stared down" to mean different things because according to my definition, he didn't stare Arian down at all.

To stare down a receiver (to me, and some one correct me if I'm wrong) means to watch that receiver run their entire route and never look at anyone else. Staring down a receiver means that you're not going through your progressions. You've already made your choice about who you're throwing to and you draw the defense to that receiver by not looking off of him.

On that interception, TJ made the mistake of NOT looking at his receiver before throwing the ball. He made his first read and that was at KW who was being held. He made his second read (I don't recall who that was). He tossed it to Arian without looking and checking that he was open. IIRC, he said as much in the post game.

So, according to my definition of "staring down", he did the exact opposite by not looking at his receiver at all.

He didn't stare Arian down.. That replay that I was talking about in my previous post...this video has it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7oVuCn1NiM
fast forward to 8:15..

You can clearly see that KW was his first read..and he was taken away due to holding (which is why the call on Dunta was a great call and the holding penalty did effect the outcome of the play).. He simply made a bad read and decision when he threw the ball to Arian, but he never stared him down. As soon as he looked Arian's way the ball came out. It was also a great play by the defender, when he recognized T.J. Yates first options were taken away he jumped the route on his check down guy.

Carr Bombed
12-10-2011, 02:12 PM
I'd really like to find out what goes on in practice. The scout team... that's Tj & our backup OL? but we don't have a full back up OL, two tackles, two guards, another center.. then who is his WRs? Jacoby, Mason, & Johnson? So how do we practice 5 WR packages?

Practice squad players?

Carr Bombed
12-10-2011, 02:49 PM
The Jags' problem (in addition to Gabbert may not be the right guy) is that they can't protect Gabbert. & that's a coaching problem. They've got a top 5 defense & a top 10 rushing attack. There is no reason why he should be called upon to "win games" the way they are asking him to.

Just like TJ, the first thing they should have told him, is if it ain't there, throw it away. The defense & the run game should be what they are leaning on.

If they can't pick up first downs through the run game, then put it on the defense to stop the other team. Same thing we are doing. Remember Tj's first game, Jacksonville, the second half.... we couldn't move the ball, we punt.

We come back against Atlanta (better than most of the teams Jacksonville lost to) & we've got a game plan that protects Tj. We're running the heck out of the ball (just like they do) & we're throwing the ball at opportune times. Quick outs, dump offs, screens, taking shots down the field off play action (same thing they should be able to do).

The biggest difference, is that our play-makers (Aj, OD, Arian) are doing what they need to do to help him out & our role players (Jj, Walter, Tate) are doing what they need to do.

Gabbert's getting the crap beat out of him & it's partially the fault of his skill guys (yeah I'm looking at you Mercedes Lewis all alone in the end-zone) not doing their job.

They're not making plays, they can't protect him.

Gabbert's biggest enemy is himself.. He has absolutely ZERO pocket awareness (on par and probably worse than Carr) and he cowers and makes throws off his back foot in the pocket. They call him "duck and chuck" in Jacksonville. That's the reason why teams now blitz the hell out of him, he's proven time and time again if you blitz him he'll bring his eyes down and collapse under the pressure. He's causing a lot of his own sacks in Jacksonville by doing that. Until he proves he can step up in the pocket and handle the pressure, teams are going to keep on bringing the heat and the sacks will keep on mounting.

Another issue in Jacksonville is the play calling. They almost NEVER pass on first down (something we've done with Yates) so given Gabbert's shortcomings they're playing right into the defense's hands. Defenses know MJD is getting the ball on 1st down so they sell out to stop in, that puts them in obvious long passing downs time and time again. Then Gabbert gets the kitchen sink thrown at him and he pees his pants.

The Pencil Neck
12-10-2011, 03:21 PM
Gabbert's biggest enemy is himself.

Yeah. That's the thing about Gabbert. He's got the arm and he can make the throws. But I don't think I've seen any QB more afraid of taking a hit since Jim (Chrissy) Everett.

Strangely, Matty Ice seemed to be skittish about contact as well. That's part of why it's so hard to get to him. He throws very quickly when the blitz is coming -- too quickly and too hard or soft. We got really lucky. A good QB would have ripped us a new one.

Allstar
12-10-2011, 03:30 PM
Uh.. I know you're smarter than me & everything, but I did specify "that first drive"

We went 3 and out on "that first drive" and Yates only threw once.

Also, if it were anyone but AJ receiving that high pass that he hauled in, it most likely would have been tipped/intercepted.

Number19
12-10-2011, 04:17 PM
There was an interview on Monday, I don't remember if it was T.J. or Kubiak, and the initial high passes were addressed. The response was that even though it wasn't apparent to the fan, T.J. was really "pumped" those first few passes.

The Pencil Neck
12-10-2011, 04:34 PM
There was an interview on Monday, I don't remember if it was T.J. or Kubiak, and the initial high passes were addressed. The response was that even though it wasn't apparent to the fan, T.J. was really "pumped" those first few passes.

I recall TJ saying that.

Wolf
12-10-2011, 04:41 PM
I will go into this game against Cincy with the same thought.. protect the ball

Premier
12-10-2011, 06:21 PM
On their last scoring drive of the game, T.J. Yates stared down Arian Foster and acted surprised when Mo Pete jumped the route and picked the pass. Experience hopefully will direct him against tunnel vision.

if looking in the same direction that youre throwing the ball is "staring down" a receiver than there are a few QBs in this league making some great no-look passes..

--------------------

about the INT, i feel it was a direct result of the hold.. Yates looking for Walter, seeing he wasnt open and making the decision to hit his checkdown before looking to see if he was open.. It was a learning opportunity for Yates that didnt result in a turnover. He bounced back rather nicely sustaining that 10 minute drive, where he could have been shook as a young guy who could have potentially just lost the game.. Yates coming from a pro offense similar to the Texans, Matt saying he picked up the offense quicker than he did, Jacoby saying he turned up the JUGS, and witnessing with my own eyes, i have all the confidence in the world in TJ, and whats more important is, TJ seems to have all the confidence in himself. one thing that scouts cant judge is how these guys will respond to adversity, or the poise they will show when transitioning to the NFL game..

Hardcore Texan
12-10-2011, 06:23 PM
In the interest of full disclosure, you're forgetting that attempt to Foster that would have been pick-sixed if not for Dunta's holding penalty. That was, by far, his worse throw of the day.

What I liked about that mis-play is the kid didn't get shell-shocked by it. the very next play he threw deep middle to J.Jones. Two plays later he hit KW for a first down to keep the drive going that produced the winning score.

Like Thorn pointed out, we only have a little data on the kid. But so far, so good.:turtle:

His pocket awareness and his ability to keep his eyes downfield are great. He's not worried about the hit, he's poised and making his progressions.

That's a lot of good stuff right there, especially for a rookie.

DocBar
12-10-2011, 07:05 PM
How does this guy fall all the way to the 5th round ? I mean I'm not saying he should have been taken in the first round or even the second round, but all the way to the 5th round ? He's got mobility, descent arm-strength, and accuracy, and size. He's also an experienced QB as he was a multi-year starter, 3 years as a starter I'm thinking ? Don't get it ?

The reason, IMO, he was a 5th rounder instead of a 2nd or 3rd, is simply that he never got thrown into the media-hype machine at the college level or by Kiper and company. If he would've had a 4 TD game as a junior, and UNC had started 7-0 (even if they finished 8-4), he would've been talked about, garnered attention, and been in the conversation the next year. As silly as that sounds, I think the draft is often impacted by such foolishness.The fact that he's the 1st UNC QB to EVER start an NFL game has to have something to do with it. The school just doesn't produce NFL QB's, so why draft one high? That would go along with the foolishness Dale mentioned.

TexanBacker93
12-10-2011, 08:43 PM
Anybody see Jaws (Ron Jaworski from ESPNs MNF), this past week on PTI say
he made the call on TJ in this past April NFL Draft ? Jaws alleges he and another football analyst said that TJ was the steal of the 2011 NFL Draft ? FWIW ?

He had a tweet about it.

https://twitter.com/#!/jawsespn/status/61604813321932800

Not exactly calling him the steal of the draft, but it's something.

TexanBacker93
12-10-2011, 08:45 PM
There was another holding penalty that wasn't called. We sent someone up the middle of the field, who was also obstructed from breaking off his route.

That was TJs third read, which kinda explains the "rushed" judgement.


I'd really like to find out what goes on in practice. The scout team... that's Tj & our backup OL? but we don't have a full back up OL, two tackles, two guards, another center.. then who is his WRs? Jacoby, Mason, & Johnson? So how do we practice 5 WR packages?

I'm pretty sure the ref mentioned the other holding call. It was declined because we accepted the one on Dunta.

Thorn
12-10-2011, 09:04 PM
And I've never said I was smarter than you.

But I am smarter than you. By almost a year. :)

76Texan
12-10-2011, 09:14 PM
How does this guy fall all the way to the 5th round ? I mean I'm not saying he should have been taken in the first round or even the second round, but all the way to the 5th round ? He's got mobility, descent arm-strength, and accuracy, and size. He's also an experienced QB as he was a multi-year starter, 4 years as a starter I'm thinking ? Don't get it ?


I've been rewatching Bill Walsh QB's drill video with Montana (which includes game footage of each of the throws in the drills).
And I rewatched some of ates' college game tapes and the two games he played for us.

There were a few things I noticed:

1. His footwork has improved tremendously.

With 4 PS games and 10 more weeks of practicing before he sees the field in a real game, basically, Yates has been through another season (of college ball).
The coaches did a great job with him.

As late as the Music City Bowl (his last collegiate game), Yates' footwork was still extremely inconsistent.

There were times he backpedaled into his throw (uneccessarily; ie. not due to pressure).
There were times he failed to step into his throw (again, uneccessarily).
There were times he threw from his back foot.
Etc.

It was night and day watching the Falcons game and the Music City Bowl.


2. Similar to his footwork, Yates' throwing mechanics were inconsistent.
He made a lot of things work by just winging it at times; whatever he felt comfortable with at the time.

I've noted that sometimes he brought the ball down too low (like Schaub used to do) and ended up with a long winded throwing motion.
On other occasions, some posters comment that Yates seems to "push" the ball forward.

The basics I learned from Walsh/Montana was for the QB never to bring the tip of the ball down below the waist, and always release the ball above the shoulder.
(The QB's throwing elbow should be as near shoulder height as possible or above - except for the times he just has to make any throw he can to avoid pressure, etc.)
This is why some scouting sites suggested that Yates has a three-quarter delivery.
This has also been corrected extremely well.
I was really impressed to see his consistent delivery/release in the Falcons game on all kind of different throws/situations.

.....

It amazes me how quickly Yates had improved in the two areas (and others).
This might explain in part why his stock wasn't higher as it should have been given the areas that he did well on (decision making, playing under pressure, progression in his read, etc.)

thunderkyss
12-10-2011, 10:01 PM
about the INT, i feel it was a direct result of the hold.. Yates looking for Walter, seeing he wasnt open and making the decision to hit his checkdown before looking to see if he was open.. It was a learning opportunity for Yates that didnt result in a turnover. He bounced back rather nicely sustaining that 10 minute drive, where he could have been shook as a young guy who could have potentially just lost the game.. Yates coming from a pro offense similar to the Texans, Matt saying he picked up the offense quicker than he did, Jacoby saying he turned up the JUGS, and witnessing with my own eyes, i have all the confidence in the world in TJ, and whats more important is, TJ seems to have all the confidence in himself.

One of my complaints about Kubiak's game management, was that I thought he did a poor job of gauging momentum, which is needed to sustain or turn momentum.

Last year there were plenty of opportunities for us to ride momentum to a win & he'd do something silly to kill it. We complete 4 passes to get into the red-zone & try to run the ball 3 times up the middle. Or we're running the ball like crazy in the first half & abandon it in the second half.

Plenty of opportunities to slow the other team's momentum, to turn the momentum in our direction. You can see the defense reeling play after play after play. Why not take a time out, gather your defense get their heads back into the game instead of blaming each other or the refs, or whatever happened that last play.

After that "potential" INT, Gary called 11 straight run plays (according to versus "turning point"). The offense maintains their confidence, building on the success of positive plays & first downs...... & we get a score.

He even went for it on that 4th & 1, going with the Mo

thunderkyss
12-10-2011, 10:08 PM
His pocket awareness and his ability to keep his eyes downfield are great. He's not worried about the hit, he's poised and making his progressions.


I love Tj & I hope he keeps it up.

But all 1st time QBs keep their eyes downfield. They don't know anybetter. Until they've been hit 4 or 5 dozen times. Their eyes start looking closer & closer to the LOS.

Tj is getting rewarded almost every time he takes a hit, so he might keep throwing/looking downfield. As long as something positive happens when he gets hit, chances are good that he'll continue to look downfield.

risk/rewards

.

CloakNNNdagger
12-10-2011, 10:58 PM
I've read several draft profiles that have specifically how immobile TJ is. I've even read some contemporary pieces saying the same. Have they been describing the same player we've seen so far?????

BTW, I know that it was his "controlled" day, but on North Carolina's Pro Day he completed an amazing 110 of 112 passes! Accuracy has never been a criticism directed towards TJ.

The Pencil Neck
12-11-2011, 02:24 AM
I've read several draft profiles that have specifically how immobile TJ is. I've even read some contemporary pieces saying the same. Have they been describing the same player we've seen so far?????

BTW, I know that it was his "controlled" day, but on North Carolina's Pro Day he completed an amazing 110 of 112 passes! Accuracy has never been a criticism directed towards TJ.

From everything I've seen on the field, he's mobile. He's not a Michael Vick or a run-first, throw-second type of QB but he looked good on roll-outs and bootlegs even when he was in college.

I've also seen some things questioning his arm strength. I can't much see that, either.

Premier
12-11-2011, 04:33 AM
After that "potential" INT, Gary called 11 straight run plays (according to versus "turning point"). The offense maintains their confidence, building on the success of positive plays & first downs...... & we get a score.


yea i watched turning point too, but... "11 straight run plays" was bs though... the first play immediately after the overturned INT was a pass, where Yates threw wide right to jacoby, a run, then a 3rd down where Yates connected with Walter for the first. 4 run plays than a Pass play where Yates scrambled out of bounds, then a pass play that was flagged for a false start on 3rd down, foster picked up the first on the ground, followed by 2 runs, then Yates dropped back on 3rd and long and scrambled falling short of the 1st down marker. texans ran on 4th down and 2 run plays lead to the TD.. im wondering where this "11 straight run plays" came from, it simply is not true..