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TexansForTheW
12-05-2011, 10:12 AM
The guy in the open field is second to none. You have to pay this guy long term, as he IS the most complete running back in the league. He almost never gets tackled by the first guy, and his vision is excellent. The move he put on DROB yesterday was nasty. Just nasty.

Pay the man.

BigBull17
12-05-2011, 12:00 PM
With the flu. Cant sell that short.

Texecutioner
12-05-2011, 12:03 PM
Depends on how much money he wants. If he wants money compared to what CJ got, than I'd hate to see the Texans pay any RB like that. CJ and Williams both got way to much money, and RB's simply arent' worth that type of investment when you can use average backs in many cases to give you good production if your O line is really good at opening the holes and pushing the pile. We have a great RB in Ben Tate that is sitting right behind Foster. I'd love to keep Foster for the long term and he is the best RB in the league right now in my opinion, but I don't want the Texans to have to pay any RB the kind of money that Williams and CJ both got, and that's what he'll most likely ask for.

El Tejano
12-05-2011, 12:15 PM
Depends on how much money he wants. If he wants money compared to what CJ got, than I'd hate to see the Texans pay any RB like that. CJ and Williams both got way to much money, and RB's simply arent' worth that type of investment when you can use average backs in many cases to give you good production if your O line is really good at opening the holes and pushing the pile. We have a great RB in Ben Tate that is sitting right behind Foster. I'd love to keep Foster for the long term and he is the best RB in the league right now in my opinion, but I don't want the Texans to have to pay any RB the kind of money that Williams and CJ both got, and that's what he'll most likely ask for.

I think you can pay Foster the money BECAUSE Tate is here.

TexansForTheW
12-05-2011, 12:17 PM
Depends on how much money he wants. If he wants money compared to what CJ got, than I'd hate to see the Texans pay any RB like that. CJ and Williams both got way to much money, and RB's simply arent' worth that type of investment when you can use average backs in many cases to give you good production if your O line is really good at opening the holes and pushing the pile. We have a great RB in Ben Tate that is sitting right behind Foster. I'd love to keep Foster for the long term and he is the best RB in the league right now in my opinion, but I don't want the Texans to have to pay any RB the kind of money that Williams and CJ both got, and that's what he'll most likely ask for.

Considering the cap is going to go up. I think you should give him top 3 money. He does not take hard hits, and will be LT like for the next 5 years. 5 years 55 million would be fine with me. Ben Tate is good, but Arian Foster he is not.

HJam72
12-05-2011, 12:26 PM
I don't know, but the man needs to get paid more than he's been making. Does he get food stamps? :)

Maddict5
12-05-2011, 12:32 PM
ash clouds cause flights to be cancelled... oh im sorry i thought this was a 'things we learnt in 2010' thread ;)


once arians demands are reasonable, he should get paid. hes given a clinic on how to play out an underpaid contract & deserves to be rewarded for acting like a pro. foster and tate should be the backbone of this offence for yrs

Texecutioner
12-05-2011, 12:32 PM
Considering the cap is going to go up. I think you should give him top 3 money. He does not take hard hits, and will be LT like for the next 5 years. 5 years 55 million would be fine with me. Ben Tate is good, but Arian Foster he is not.

What do you mean he doesn't take hard hits?? Lol! He is an NFL RB and they all take hard hits. There is no getting away from that if you're a back that carries the ball 15 times a game.

Top 3 money is a waste for any RB in my opinion. The Titans were crazy to pay CJ that kind of money regardless of how great he has been. RB's aren't a dime a dozen, but it's not that hard to plug in play them when you have the kind of O line that we have right now. Other than at Kicker, RB is probably the position that I'd want to spend one of the least amounts on as far as player salaries go. Denver put together one great season after another of a productive running game in this system with average backs other than those years that Terrell Davis and Portis were there. I love Foster, but RB's aren't worth over 6 Million a year especially when you have Ben Tate sitting right behind him. Tate is a beast as well.

Corrosion
12-05-2011, 12:38 PM
What do you mean he doesn't take hard hits?? Lol! He is an NFL RB and they all take hard hits. There is no getting away from that if you're a back that carries the ball 15 times a game.



Defenders dont often get a good shot at him ..... he's said it himself that he tries to only give them half a target , not allowing the defender to square up on him to deliver a big hit.

Doppelganger
12-05-2011, 12:44 PM
The guy in the open field is second to none. You have to pay this guy long term, as he IS the most complete running back in the league. He almost never gets tackled by the first guy, and his vision is excellent. The move he put on DROB yesterday was nasty. Just nasty.

Pay the man.


Depends on how much money he wants. If he wants money compared to what CJ got, than I'd hate to see the Texans pay any RB like that. CJ and Williams both got way to much money, and RB's simply arent' worth that type of investment when you can use average backs in many cases to give you good production if your O line is really good at opening the holes and pushing the pile. We have a great RB in Ben Tate that is sitting right behind Foster. I'd love to keep Foster for the long term and he is the best RB in the league right now in my opinion, but I don't want the Texans to have to pay any RB the kind of money that Williams and CJ both got, and that's what he'll most likely ask for.

I agree with Texecutioner. Foster is the best RB in the league, but the shelf life of a RB is pretty short. Adrian Peterson is already talking about getting a higher contract than CJ got. If there was no salary cap then sure, i wouldn't mind giving a massive contract to Foster, but the reality is there is a salary cap.

So I say offer him a fair contract. But what is fair? Let's see. CJ is making about 9.3 per year base salary(56 mill total). The 5th highest paid RB in 2011 is Frank Gore who made 4.9 base. Foster currently makes $525,000 in base. If we offer him a total of $35 million over 5 year(of which 25 is guaranteed), then it turns into a base of $5 mill per year. That is a reasonable offer to show Foster we appreciate him yet it does not hamstring the team like a 9 or 10 mill a year contract would.

Texecutioner
12-05-2011, 12:47 PM
Defenders dont often get a good shot at him ..... he's said it himself that he tries to only give them half a target , not allowing the defender to square up on him to deliver a big hit.

RB's take big hits and I've seen him take a ton of big hits. There is no way around that no matter how hard he tries to give half a target.

Texecutioner
12-05-2011, 12:49 PM
I agree with Texecutioner. Foster is the best RB in the league, but the shelf life of a RB is pretty short. Adrian Peterson is already talking about getting a higher contract than CJ got. If there was no salary cap then sure, i wouldn't mind giving a massive contract to Foster, but the reality is there is a salary cap.

So I say offer him a fair contract. But what is fair? Let's see. CJ is making about 9.3 per year base salary(56 mill total). The 5th highest paid RB in 2011 is Frank Gore who made 4.9 base. Foster currently makes $525,000 in base. If we offer him a total of $35 million over 5 year(of which 25 is guaranteed), then it turns into a base of $5 mill per year. That is a reasonable offer to show Foster we appreciate him yet it does not hamstring the team like a 9 or 10 mill a year contract would.

Hammer meet nail. This is exactly where I would draw the line. Our running game was pretty damn good when Foster was out as well and Tate carried the running game. We also have had our 3rd string guy look pretty good in limited action. Foster may be better than Tate, but it's not by much. Tate is a freaking tank. Teams are going to learn from watching the Panthers and the Titans throw bad money on Williams and CJ. NO RB IS WORTH THAT KIND OF MONEY.

Corrosion
12-05-2011, 12:52 PM
I agree with Texecutioner. Foster is the best RB in the league, but the shelf life of a RB is pretty short. Adrian Peterson is already talking about getting a higher contract than CJ got. If there was no salary cap then sure, i wouldn't mind giving a massive contract to Foster, but the reality is there is a salary cap.

So I say offer him a fair contract. But what is fair? Let's see. CJ is making about 9.3 per year base salary(56 mill total). The 5th highest paid RB in 2011 is Frank Gore who made 4.9 base. Foster currently makes $525,000 in base. If we offer him a total of $35 million over 5 year(of which 25 is guaranteed), then it turns into a base of $5 mill per year. That is a reasonable offer to show Foster we appreciate him yet it does not hamstring the team like a 9 or 10 mill a year contract would.

I think it boils down to how much is money is guaranteed rather than the total value of a contract.

TexansForTheW
12-05-2011, 01:04 PM
Hammer meet nail. This is exactly where I would draw the line. Our running game was pretty damn good when Foster was out as well and Tate carried the running game. We also have had our 3rd string guy look pretty good in limited action. Foster may be better than Tate, but it's not by much. Tate is a freaking tank. Teams are going to learn from watching the Panthers and the Titans throw bad money on Williams and CJ. NO RB IS WORTH THAT KIND OF MONEY.

Not by much. Tate has shown this year that he is unreliable to catch a dump off. What makes Foster so special is his vision, pass protection, open field running, and catching passes out of the back field. Tate runs like a bat out of hell but he isn't close to Arian. This team needs Foster.

DX-TEX
12-05-2011, 01:05 PM
Arian doesnt seem like the type that will demand outrageous money. He is all class and an outstanding human being.

Pay the man Rick!

Texecutioner
12-05-2011, 01:27 PM
Arian doesnt seem like the type that will demand outrageous money. He is all class and an outstanding human being.

Pay the man Rick!

You're in for a rude awakening big time.

Corrosion
12-05-2011, 01:30 PM
Arian doesnt seem like the type that will demand outrageous money. He is all class and an outstanding human being.

Pay the man Rick!

You're in for a rude awakening big time.

I have to agree .... this is business and Foster has far and away handled his end. He's going to expect bigtime :money: and I dont blame him.

The team may have been better off locking him up prior to this season rather than allowing him to reach FA.

Section516
12-05-2011, 01:33 PM
I have to agree .... this is business and Foster has far and away handled his end. He's going to expect bigtime :money: and I dont blame him.

The team may have been better off locking him up prior to this season rather than allowing him to reach FA.

Foster is RFA - Right to match.

Doppelganger
12-05-2011, 01:35 PM
I have to agree .... this is business and Foster has far and away handled his end. He's going to expect bigtime :money: and I dont blame him.

The team may have been better off locking him up prior to this season rather than allowing him to reach FA.

So is my proposal above a big-time money contract and a fair offer?

It was 35 mill over 5 years with 25 guaranteed.

Corrosion
12-05-2011, 01:37 PM
Foster is RFA - Right to match.

Regardless of that fact , I think they could have saved a substantial amount of money by giving him a reasonable deal after last season because someone is going to offer him stupid money this offseason.

Texecutioner
12-05-2011, 01:37 PM
I have to agree .... this is business and Foster has far and away handled his end. He's going to expect bigtime :money: and I dont blame him.

The team may have been better off locking him up prior to this season rather than allowing him to reach FA.

Oh no doubt he'll be deserving of a big contract, and he'll certainly ask for it. I don't know why anyone would be foolish enough to believe that Foster would somehow not care about getting a max contract when he's arguably the best RB in the NFL. No one does that. What elite RB's are going to ask for going forward is going to be way to high though considering what CJ got. That will be the measuring stick from this point on. I'd invest my money in the O line that can pass protect and run block with effectiveness for any back we have, before I'd want to put that kind of investment in a position that has a high history of injuries and shorter shelf life in this league. Shall we forget about guys like Domanick Davis, Jamal Anderson, and many others? You get the best O line to run block and you can have an average guy giving you 1,200 plus yards for the year with some back ups contributing nicely as well. Foster will want probably like 8 Million a year.

b0ng
12-05-2011, 02:05 PM
So is my proposal above a big-time money contract and a fair offer?

It was 35 mill over 5 years with 25 guaranteed.

That's not much of a cap killer. I would be in favor of a deal like that.

Corrosion
12-05-2011, 02:07 PM
So is my proposal above a big-time money contract and a fair offer?

It was 35 mill over 5 years with 25 guaranteed.

I think its fair ..... but Im not the guy who has to sign on the dotted line.

How much was CJ2ypc guaranteed ?

Ryan
12-05-2011, 02:08 PM
With the flu. Cant sell that short.

He played with the flu yesterday?

DX-TEX
12-05-2011, 02:11 PM
He played with the flu yesterday?

Yeah he tweeted about it after the game.

Jaysol
12-05-2011, 02:22 PM
I think its fair ..... but Im not the guy who has to sign on the dotted line.

How much was CJ2ypc guaranteed ?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/the-full-chris-johnson-contract-breakdown/

Johnson received a $10 million signing bonus, along with a $3 million fully guaranteed base salary in 2011.

In 2012, Johnson will receive a base salary of $8 million. The base salary is guaranteed for injury only at the time of signing. It becomes fully guaranteed on the fifth day of the 2012 League Year.

The base salary reduces by $250,000 if Johnson doesn’t participate in the team’s offseason workout program. It drops by another $300,000 if he doesn’t rush for 1,000 yards in 2011.

In 2013, Johnson’s salary is $10 million, $9 million of which is guaranteed for injury only now. It becomes fully guaranteed on the fifth day of the 2013 League Year. The salary drops by $250,000 if he fails to complete the offseason workout program.

In 2014, Johnson’s salary is $8 million, with the same $250,000 de-escalator. Ditto for 2015.

In the final year of the deal, Johnson’s salary will be $7 million, with a $2 million roster bonus due on the seventh day of the 2016 League Year. The base salary can drop by up to $2 million based on rushing yards, along with a potential $250,000 reduction based on participation in offseason workouts.

It works out to a be a six-year, $56 million deal. That’s an average of $9.3 million.

It is my understanding since it only guarantees money due to injury, the Titans can get out of the contract due to a decline in skill and only owe him $13 mil for this season, or at the end of next season if he continues to suck and only blow $22 mil.

I think something similar could be worked out with Foster, although I still feel $9.3 mil is a bit ridiculous for a running back, but let's face it, Foster is an explosive player and has the possibility to impact the game every time he touches the ball. I see no problem with him getting $6-8 million a year if he continues to play like this for the next 5-6 years. Which I believe he can.

Jaysol
12-05-2011, 02:33 PM
As far as the Texans not having to pay Arian as much because we have Tate as a back up. Tate is currently ranked 17th in total yards with 753 yards on 138 attempts. If he had the 200+ carries that most the top 10 rushers have, he could likely be over 900 yards and would likely be looking for that same big money that Foster is likely to receive next year.

Doppelganger
12-05-2011, 02:41 PM
That's not much of a cap killer. I would be in favor of a deal like that.

Agree. I think Foster needs to be appreciated and the way you appreciate players is by giving them a nice contract.

I think its fair ..... but Im not the guy who has to sign on the dotted line.

How much was CJ2ypc guaranteed ?

What I like about my offer is that it increased Foster's current salary 10 fold.

CJ got around 9.3 mill a year which I think is a ton. I arrived at the figure of 5 because currently Frank Gore fifth highest paid back receives 4.9. 5 mill makes FOster the fifth highest paid back, increases his wages 10 fold, AND is cap friendly to the team.

TexansFanatic
12-05-2011, 02:47 PM
Pay him, Rick.

80tothezone
12-05-2011, 02:49 PM
ash clouds cause flights to be cancelled... oh im sorry i thought this was a 'things we learnt in 2010' thread ;)


once arians demands are reasonable, he should get paid. hes given a clinic on how to play out an underpaid contract & deserves to be rewarded for acting like a pro. foster and tate should be the backbone of this offence for yrs

I am kinda for trading Tate for a 1st and a 2nd.... can u imagine if we got 5 of the first 64 picks.

Section516
12-05-2011, 02:53 PM
I am kinda for trading Tate for a 1st and a 2nd.... can u imagine if we got 5 of the first 64 picks.

Highly doubt anyone would do that trade.

drs23
12-05-2011, 02:53 PM
I am kinda for trading Tate for a 1st and a 2nd.... can u imagine if we got 5 of the first 64 picks.

And exactly who would your suitors be that would give up a 1st & a 2nd for Tate? Inquiring minds and all.

Jaysol
12-05-2011, 02:55 PM
I am kinda for trading Tate for a 1st and a 2nd.... can u imagine if we got 5 of the first 64 picks.

I was talking with some friends about this as well, as much as I enjoy the one / two punch of Foster and Tate, and it was great to have a back that could carry a full load while Foster was out. I just feel like his talent is wasted as a number 2 back. If we feel Ward can do a reasonable job backing up Foster, Tate could get us some great picks in the next draft. I'm not saying a 1st and 2nd round pick, but some combination of picks or prospects in positions that we are not as fortunate enough to have two studs in.

Texecutioner
12-05-2011, 03:08 PM
I am kinda for trading Tate for a 1st and a 2nd.... can u imagine if we got 5 of the first 64 picks.

If you want to talk a trade for Tate, than let's talk about a real life trade and not one on Madden. No team would do that.

We could get a 2nd rounder for him which is where we drafted him if I'm not mistaken.

I say we need to keep Tate either way. You need two backs these days. Both of them could easily get hurt as it is. Having two backs like this is what makes this offense able to win without a strong passing game. I just wouldn't spend ridiculous money on anyone at the RB position when there are to many flash in the pan RB's that you can plug in if you're O line is playing really well. People forget that the O line is the bigger and more important part to a successful running game than the actual RB himself.

Dutchrudder
12-05-2011, 03:13 PM
I think the best route to go this year may be to franchise tag Arian. It would mean the team won't have to risk much in the way of money over the years. Or lock him down now for 4-5 years and hope he makes it to 2015. Tough choice as he's definitely important, but it may require letting Mario walk in return.

infantrycak
12-05-2011, 03:45 PM
I think the best route to go this year may be to franchise tag Arian. It would mean the team won't have to risk much in the way of money over the years. Or lock him down now for 4-5 years and hope he makes it to 2015. Tough choice as he's definitely important, but it may require letting Mario walk in return.

Foster is not UFA after this season. There is no reason to franchise tag him. We can high tender him.

Vinny
12-05-2011, 04:07 PM
I think the two sides will agree without much fanfare. Mario's situation is what interests me.

GuerillaBlack
12-05-2011, 04:13 PM
I think the two sides will agree without much fanfare. Mario's situation is what interests me.

Mario gets the franchise tag. I believe salary caps are suppose to increase the year after next.

Vinny
12-05-2011, 04:18 PM
Mario gets the franchise tag. I believe salary caps are suppose to increase the year after next.
I've heard his cap would be too high due to something John McClain said the other day. There is some acceleration clause for guys like Mario or something along those lines.

Dutchrudder
12-05-2011, 04:22 PM
Foster is not UFA after this season. There is no reason to franchise tag him. We can high tender him.

Do you think he's going to play another year for peanuts? I don't. I completely expect him to hold out if that's all Rick offers him, and I wouldn't blame him at all if he did. He's outperformed his contract for two years straight now, and he deserves a pay raise, even if he has to sit out a season.

Rey
12-05-2011, 04:27 PM
Do you think he's going to play another year for peanuts? I don't. I completely expect him to hold out if that's all Rick offers him, and I wouldn't blame him at all if he did. He's outperformed his contract for two years straight now, and he deserves a pay raise, even if he has to sit out a season.

How much money are we talking for a high tender?

TexansForTheW
12-05-2011, 04:37 PM
I say somewhere around 8 to 10 million for 5 years.

Dutchrudder
12-05-2011, 04:47 PM
How much money are we talking for a high tender?

Depends on what draft pick value is assigned. I'm assuming Foster is regarded as a third year RFA next year. Previously the values were:

Veterans with 3 accrued seasons:
3.317 - 1st & 3rd round compensation*
2.611 - 1st round compensation*
1.835 - 2nd round compensation*
1.200 - original round compensation*
1.200 - right of first refusal

* or 110% of the previous year's pay (whichever is higher)

I don't know if that has changed significantly with the new CBA, but 3.3 million likely isn't enough to make Foster happy. Not only that, but another team could still try to sign him, and the Texans would have right of first refusal, but end up paying that contract. Ought to be interesting to see what happens with him, he sure would be a hot commodity on the market.

The Texans did this with Owen Daniels in the past the year he got hurt. I recall OD being very unhappy with his contract but still played begrudgingly. I think his was worth about 3.4 million due to the 110% increase or something like that.

Texecutioner
12-05-2011, 04:48 PM
I say somewhere around 8 to 10 million for 5 years.

You'd pay 8 Mill a year for a RB?? That's to much.

Look at the last few SB teams of the last few seasons and decade?? How many of them had a top 3 best RB in the league?? NONE OF THEM.

GB had one of the worst running games in the league and won the SB.

NO didn't have that strong of a running game at all. THey had a platoon of guys behind a pretty good O line. (Which is what I said was more important.)

The Steelers had Willie Parker and Mendenhall in their last SB, neither of which was anywhere close to being the best RB in the league.

The Patriots have never had a top RB in the league playing for any of their teams that won the SB.

The Bucs that won the SB had a guy that I can't even remember his name at the time.

The Ravens won with Jamal Lewis as a rookie, and he was good, but far from being the best in the league.

The Colts won their first SB with Edge if I'm not mistaken or it might have been with Addai. Either way, the Colts never had the best RB in the league with Addai there.



So you can look at all of these great teams that won SB's and the common denominator there has never been a team that needed a top 3 RB in the league to win the SB. A good running game is very important, but all of those teams put their money elsewhere instead of paying Chris Johnson or Deangello Williams type of money for their RB.

TexansFanatic
12-05-2011, 04:49 PM
Can't stop laughing at this.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/files/2011/12/texans24-650x386.jpg

Jaysol
12-05-2011, 05:11 PM
You'd pay 8 Mill a year for a RB?? That's to much.

Look at the last few SB teams of the last few seasons and decade?? How many of them had a top 3 best RB in the league?? NONE OF THEM.

GB had one of the worst running games in the league and won the SB.

NO didn't have that strong of a running game at all. THey had a platoon of guys behind a pretty good O line. (Which is what I said was more important.)

The Steelers had Willie Parker and Mendenhall in their last SB, neither of which was anywhere close to being the best RB in the league.

The Patriots have never had a top RB in the league playing for any of their teams that won the SB.

The Bucs that won the SB had a guy that I can't even remember his name at the time.

The Ravens won with Jamal Lewis as a rookie, and he was good, but far from being the best in the league.

The Colts won their first SB with Edge if I'm not mistaken or it might have been with Addai. Either way, the Colts never had the best RB in the league with Addai there.


So you can look at all of these great teams that won SB's and the common denominator there has never been a team that needed a top 3 RB in the league to win the SB. A good running game is very important, but all of those teams put their money elsewhere instead of paying Chris Johnson or Deangello Williams type of money for their RB.

The common denominator is they were all great teams.

GB, NO, Pitt, NE, and Colts all had premiere quarterbacks and other pieces to puzzle needed to accomplish that final win.

Baltimore was led by Ray Lewis and other Defensive players, but Jamal Lewis was 7th in rushing yards for that season, he wasn't a slouch. It was a close game that the defense helped push over the top to a 3 point win.

The point is, just because you don't NEED a premiere running back to win a Super Bowl, doesn't mean that you undervalue what Foster has brought to this team. I feel his play the last two seasons more than warrants 7+ million a year as long as he continues to perform adequately so. If anything, to help compensate for the time he performed for far below what he contributed to the team.

Jaysol
12-05-2011, 05:23 PM
There is also something to be said about star value of a player. Foster is the type of player that get's people into the stands. His explosiveness and ability to put 6 on the board everytime he touches the ball gets people to buy tickets and memorabilia. That is definetly something that should be on the front office's mind when they negotiate with him, because I'm certain it will be on Foster and his agent's mind.

Let's face it, Texan's fans have been spoiled by our strength at the running game. It has someone become our calling card these last two years, along with our defense this year. We don't need a Brady, Rodgers, or Brees to win, we pound it out on the ground. I'm certain there would be serious backlash from the fans if we don't do whatever it takes to sign Foster and he goes on to be incredibly successful elsewhere.

In short, PAY HIM, RICK!

silvrhand
12-05-2011, 05:27 PM
There is also something to be said about star value of a player. Foster is the type of player that get's people into the stands. His explosiveness and ability to put 6 on the board everytime he touches the ball gets people to buy tickets and memorabilia. That is definetly something that should be on the front office's mind when they negotiate with him, because I'm certain it will be on Foster and his agent's mind.

Let's face it, Texan's fans have been spoiled by our strength at the running game. It has someone become our calling card these last two years, along with our defense this year. We don't need a Brady, Rodgers, or Brees to win, we pound it out on the ground. I'm certain there would be serious backlash from the fans if we don't do whatever it takes to sign Foster and he goes on to be incredibly successful elsewhere.

In short, PAY HIM, RICK!

Disagree, wins gets fans in the stands.. they usually don't care too much long as they are winning. Offer Arian a reasonable offer 4-5 million a year, and if not put Tate in the 2-3 million a year, and put Ward back to work.. Draft another good RB in the second round and call it done.

Corrosion
12-05-2011, 05:28 PM
Mario gets the franchise tag. I believe salary caps are suppose to increase the year after next.

I dont think you can franchise MW ..... he would get like $23m for one year , since its either top 5 avg money OR 120% of the preevious years salary , whichever is greater .... the 120% would be the greater. Thats just too much money for one player.

Texecutioner
12-05-2011, 05:29 PM
The common denominator is they were all great teams.

GB, NO, Pitt, NE, and Colts all had premiere quarterbacks and other pieces to puzzle needed to accomplish that final win.

Baltimore was led by Ray Lewis and other Defensive players, but Jamal Lewis was 7th in rushing yards for that season, he wasn't a slouch. It was a close game that the defense helped push over the top to a 3 point win.

The point is, just because you don't NEED a premiere running back to win a Super Bowl, doesn't mean that you undervalue what Foster has brought to this team. I feel his play the last two seasons more than warrants 7+ million a year as long as he continues to perform adequately so. If anything, to help compensate for the time he performed for far below what he contributed to the team.

Which sort of makes my point for me doesn't it than?? If a great team was great enough to win the SB without a top 3 RB, than obviously it isn't something that is "needed" at all to where you have to pay a guy that kind of money at that position.

I've already provided enough evidence that consistent winning teams don't need a star at RB. I made the statement and provided information to back up that assertion.

I never have stated that I don't want Foster. No one would suggest that. If Foster wants a contract that is way over what any RB should get considering their worth, than he should be let go or traded at that point.

RB's aren't a pivatol piece in winning a SB. They're important just like any position, but not at a salary like that when you have a great blocking scheme that's working with other great talent on the team who can be productive.


You can also look at all of the teams that lost to SB winners over that period of time and hardly any of them had a top 3 RB than either. The only one I can think of from the last decade is the Rams who lost to the Patriots.

Rey
12-05-2011, 05:45 PM
I think you have to take into consideration how teams are built.

Patriots, colts and packers all had the top three qb's in the league. Same with the saints.

Baltimore had one of the best defenses ever.

We depend heavily in foster and Tate. You can point to the oline but this is pretty much the same or a very similar line that blocked for slaton and ahman green and Ron dayne.

Then besides the running game foster is a great pass protector at the position and he is a great receiver coming out of the back field.

I disagree that he is expendable simply because of the position he plays and the money he may command. I think you have to look at this individual teams make up and how much this offense actually depend on foster and the running game in order to be successful.

fiasco west
12-05-2011, 05:57 PM
Foster is a franchise player.

Pay him whatever it takes to get him back. For all the RBs have a short lifespan, this is true...when you rely too much on one RB and run him to the ground. This will not be the case. The man is carrying the offense on his back and we are 9-3, I think that's enough to warrant a big pay-day.

Rey
12-05-2011, 06:00 PM
Depends on what draft pick value is assigned. I'm assuming Foster is regarded as a third year RFA next year. Previously the values were:

Veterans with 3 accrued seasons:
3.317 - 1st & 3rd round compensation*
2.611 - 1st round compensation*
1.835 - 2nd round compensation*
1.200 - original round compensation*
1.200 - right of first refusal

* or 110% of the previous year's pay (whichever is higher)

I don't know if that has changed significantly with the new CBA, but 3.3 million likely isn't enough to make Foster happy. Not only that, but another team could still try to sign him, and the Texans would have right of first refusal, but end up paying that contract. Ought to be interesting to see what happens with him, he sure would be a hot commodity on the market.

The Texans did this with Owen Daniels in the past the year he got hurt. I recall OD being very unhappy with his contract but still played begrudgingly. I think his was worth about 3.4 million due to the 110% increase or something like that.

Yeah, I don't see us doing this.

Texecutioner
12-05-2011, 06:01 PM
I think you have to take into consideration how teams are built.

Patriots, colts and packers all had the top three qb's in the league. Same with the saints.

Baltimore had one of the best defenses ever.

We depend heavily in foster and Tate. You can point to the oline but this is pretty much the same or a very similar line that blocked for slaton and ahman green and Ron dayne.

Then besides the running game foster is a great pass protector at the position and he is a great receiver coming out of the back field.

I disagree that he is expendable simply because of the position he plays and the money he may command. I think you have to look at this individual teams make up and how much this offense actually depend on foster and the running game in order to be successful.

The Texans went 2-1 without Foster and their only loss was to the Saints where they put up like 30 something points. That was with Tate. I agree that he is great in this offense, but with the way the O line looks right now a lot of backs can be very productive in this offense.

You can't get just any safety to be spectacular on a defense. You can't get just any CB to be spectacular on any defense. You can't get any D lineman or O lineman to be spectacular at their positions. Those are all positions where you "need" great players at those positions if you want high quality production. It's been proven time and time again that with a good blocking scheme in the running game that average backs can be very consistent. The NE Patriots have done that for years especially the last 4 seasons.

Fox
12-05-2011, 06:06 PM
Foster's an integral part of this team and this offense. Good locker room guy, great in pass pro, an elite screen guy, and most importantly a top 5 runner. Pay him.

TimeKiller
12-05-2011, 06:12 PM
You're in for a rude awakening big time.

I only read the first page so Idk if someone else brought this up but this is the same guy who when asked about playing big time for a measly NFL contract answered something to the extent of, "I grew up worrying about the lights being on, sometimes you just take a blessing for a what it is." This guy has his feet on the ground. He's going to get a big contract, no sense in blabbering on about it. So he came out and did his work. He's not a fluke. He's not a stable horse either. He's the stud. You don't need to pay him ridiculous money and I personally don't think he'll ask for it. I think someone who portrays himself as an intellectual knows that there is more to life than money and there's a lot more in Houston than there is in BFE Tennessee. You want money so bad? Go do advertisements until it makes you sick, until your pillows are stuffed with benjamins instead of cotton. You know how hard it is to read off a couple lines for a commercial? It's ridiculous....ly easy.

Rey
12-05-2011, 06:14 PM
The Texans went 2-1 without Foster and their only loss was to the Saints where they put up like 30 something points. That was with Tate. I agree that he is great in this offense, but with the way the O line looks right now a lot of backs can be very productive in this offense.

You can't get just any safety to be spectacular on a defense. You can't get just any CB to be spectacular on any defense. You can't get any D lineman or O lineman to be spectacular at their positions. Those are all positions where you "need" great players at those positions if you want high quality production. It's been proven time and time again that with a good blocking scheme in the running game that average backs can be very consistent. The NE Patriots have done that for years especially the last 4 seasons.

We've gone 2-0 without schaub. Weve won quite a few games without Andre.

I think other backs could be successful, no doubt. But like I mentioned foster does other things besides running well. And I've seen other backs in this offense that have not looked so hot either, so really it's a gamble. If you let foster go that's another spot you have to fill as well.

And I get that ne and other teams don't have great rb's but that is not how their team is built. Ne has Brady. Saints have brees. The mannings have manning. Gb has Rodgers. Steelers rb is actually pretty good but they have big Ben who makes a lot of plays for that team.

Every team is built differently. If you get rid of foster there is no doubt in my mind that is a step back for us offensively.

I can actually get behind the idea of letting go of Mario before I can think about letting foster go. He and Tate together are potent.

Jaysol
12-05-2011, 06:30 PM
We've gone 2-0 without schaub. Weve won quite a few games without Andre.

I think other backs could be successful, no doubt. But like I mentioned foster does other things besides running well. And I've seen other backs in this offense that have not looked so hot either, so really it's a gamble. If you let foster go that's another spot you have to fill as well.

And I get that ne and other teams don't have great rb's but that is not how their team is built. Ne has Brady. Saints have brees. The mannings have manning. Gb has Rodgers. Steelers rb is actually pretty good but they have big Ben who makes a lot of plays for that team.

Every team is built differently. If you get rid of foster there is no doubt in my mind that is a step back for us offensively.

I can actually get behind the idea of letting go of Mario before I can think about letting foster go. He and Tate together are potent.

This is essentially the point I was trying to make earlier, but didn't word it as well as you did. Every team that wins a Super Bowl takes their own route, I believe 100% that ours includes at least Foster, if not both Foster and Tate. Having two great backs will go a long way to increase their sustainability as backs in this league.

I totally agree with being able to get behind the idea of letting go of Mario, Reed is playing well for a rookie and seems to have good synergy with the other 6 in the front.

Say Watt
12-05-2011, 06:32 PM
You guys are nuts. You have been spoiled by the greatness of Arian and have forgotten what it was like to suffer like we did for so many years.

Every single one of you saying we should low ball Arian and should just let him walk need to go watch some footage of Sophomore Slaton, Chris Brown, Ahman Green, Wali Lundy, Samkon Gado, and Ron Dayne in Texans uniforms. Once you do that, you will be willing to pay Arian whatever he wants.

Without an elite QB, we need a big time running game. You might think Ben Tate can carry the load, but keep in mind he has suffered injuries the last two years, he takes a beating when he plays with his running style, and so what are we going to do if Tate gets injured with no Arian? Send out a 32 year old Derrick Ward?!?!? You're nuts!!!

Say Watt
12-05-2011, 06:39 PM
It's been proven time and time again that with a good blocking scheme in the running game that average backs can be very consistent. The NE Patriots have done that for years especially the last 4 seasons.

I'm curious what your response is to my post above. Don't you remember how long we suffered looking for even a decent running back?!? The idea that we can simply plug in any running back and have them rush for 1,000 yards just isn't true. You majorly underestimate all that Arian brings to the table.

With Andre getting older, and basically becoming injury prone, we are weak at WR. We just about need to draft one WR to be our future #1 plus a WR to be our #3 and eventual #2 very soon. OD isn't getting any younger, although he still has some good years ahead of him. Schaub is not the kind of elite QB that can be good without a good team around him.

We NEED Arian Foster. Without Andre, he is the only elite offensive weapon we have on this team. All those Super Bowl teams you mentioned have QBs much better than our own and (without Andre) better WRs.

I think you're missing the mark on this one, Tex.

thunderkyss
12-05-2011, 06:42 PM
Foster is going to be a delimma. I agree with Texecutioner, 9+ million is a lot of money for a RB. I think $5 million would be an insult.

I'd want nothing more to keep him, probably offer him a 6 year deal totaling 60 million or so. Give him a signing bonus of $30 million & a low salary over the first 3 years of the contract, say $200,000. The last three years will split the balance of the contract About $10 Million per year.

Structured like that, the Texans can make Arian's cap number just about anything they want, $5M/yr if they want, spreading the remaining $15Million over the last three years of his contract.

Three years from the signing, they can renegotiate to extend him & spread that $15Million out over the term of the new contract along with whatever guaranteed money he gets at that time. The only problem with this type of structure, is if Arian gets hurt so bad we elect to cut him, whatever remains from that bonus will go against that year's cap.

thunderkyss
12-05-2011, 06:45 PM
You can't get just any safety to be spectacular on a defense. You can't get just any CB to be spectacular on any defense. You can't get any D lineman or O lineman to be spectacular at their positions. Those are all positions where you "need" great players at those positions if you want high quality production. It's been proven time and time again that with a good blocking scheme in the running game that average backs can be very consistent. The NE Patriots have done that for years especially the last 4 seasons.

We start Kareem Jackson

He's "productive" in this system. If you're looking for spectacular play, it's the same thing with Foster. Sure you can probably find a dozen backs that could be productive in our "system" But Arian is spectacular.

TexansFanatic
12-05-2011, 06:50 PM
If you're looking for spectacular play, it's the same thing with Foster. Sure you can probably find a dozen backs that could be productive in our "system" But Arian is spectacular.

I've come to this same conclusion.

Arian is special.

ObsiWan
12-05-2011, 06:56 PM
I dunno. Arian seems to have his head on straight. I just don't see him holding out a la CJ1K or doing "pay me Rick" type foolishness.

What has he done to make folks think he'll clown like that for his contract?

I agree with whoever said, we should have given him an extension this year and not had this to worry about for the next 4 or so years.

HuttoKarl
12-05-2011, 07:05 PM
I sort of get the feeling that Foster would demand enough money to make sure he can take care of his family for the rest of his life after football. He doesn't seem like the type of person to jerk out about a contract and he doesn't seem the type to blow his money on stupid shiz.

I think the Texans value him greatly after looking for a starting running back worth squat for almost a decade. I think they'll make a very good offer to him and he's likely going to take it so he can continue to run behind that stellar O-Line and continue to be a part of a winning team that he helped build.

Rey
12-05-2011, 07:10 PM
I sort of get the feeling that Foster would demand enough money to make sure he can take care of his family for the rest of his life after football. He doesn't seem like the type of person to jerk out about a contract and he doesn't seem the type to blow his money on stupid shiz.

I think the Texans value him greatly after looking for a starting running back worth squat for almost a decade. I think they'll make a very good offer to him and he's likely going to take it so he can continue to run behind that stellar O-Line and continue to be a part of a winning team that he helped build.

I agree with this.

I think we'll offer a reasonable contract and he'll accept because technically we could just tender him. Fosters only leverage is a hold out and I don't see him doing that.

I think he wants a good amount of money but I don't think he's going to tell the texans to break the bank or else.

TdotTexas2Step
12-05-2011, 08:50 PM
Perhaps the front office have already had a talk with Arian behind closed doors. He plays out the rest of his deal without mentioning contract talks - which should be expected, but actually doesn't happen often - and the front office takes care of him next year.

I think the biggest deterrence was probably what happened with Slaton. The Texans wanted to be absolutely sure this wasn't another case of the one year wonder.

Now they know. Regardless of what Tate does the rest of the way, the Texans will pay Foster a good deal.

thunderkyss
12-05-2011, 08:54 PM
I agree with this.

I think we'll offer a reasonable contract...

The man speaks pterodactyl. We have no idea what he thinks "reasonable is"

Rey
12-05-2011, 09:37 PM
The man speaks pterodactyl. We have no idea what he thinks "reasonable is"

He's quirky not dense.

But I get your point.

Doppelganger
12-06-2011, 12:09 AM
Foster is going to be a delimma. I agree with Texecutioner, 9+ million is a lot of money for a RB. I think $5 million would be an insult.

I'd want nothing more to keep him, probably offer him a 6 year deal totaling 60 million or so. Give him a signing bonus of $30 million & a low salary over the first 3 years of the contract, say $200,000. The last three years will split the balance of the contract About $10 Million per year.

Structured like that, the Texans can make Arian's cap number just about anything they want, $5M/yr if they want, spreading the remaining $15Million over the last three years of his contract.

Three years from the signing, they can renegotiate to extend him & spread that $15Million out over the term of the new contract along with whatever guaranteed money he gets at that time. The only problem with this type of structure, is if Arian gets hurt so bad we elect to cut him, whatever remains from that bonus will go against that year's cap.

5 mill is an insult? 5 million a year is top 5 RB money. Take a look at this site.
Here are the top 5 base salaries:
Adrian Peterson: 10.7
Chris Johnson: 9.3(from another site)
Steven Jackson: 7.2
Darren McFadden: 7.05
Michael Turner: 5.0

If you are paying the man top 5 money at his position, I hardly see that as an insult. If anything it is an acknowledgment that he is one of the best at his position and he is being compensated as such. If he was offered, say 1.75 (which is what the 20th best RB gets) than that could be construed as insulting. Top 5 money is not insulting.

Also keep in mind that Foster makes 500k this year, so a bump up to 5mill is 10 fold raise. Again, its hard to feel insulted when you are given a raise that is 10 times your previous salary.

Corrosion
12-06-2011, 01:05 AM
5 mill is an insult? 5 million a year is top 5 RB money. Take a look at this site.
Here are the top 5 base salaries:
Adrian Peterson: 10.7
Chris Johnson: 9.3(from another site)
Steven Jackson: 7.2
Darren McFadden: 7.05
Michael Turner: 5.0

If you are paying the man top 5 money at his position, I hardly see that as an insult. If anything it is an acknowledgment that he is one of the best at his position and he is being compensated as such. If he was offered, say 1.75 (which is what the 20th best RB gets) than that could be construed as insulting. Top 5 money is not insulting.

Also keep in mind that Foster makes 500k this year, so a bump up to 5mill is 10 fold raise. Again, its hard to feel insulted when you are given a raise that is 10 times your previous salary.


I think he'll get a deal in the neighborhood of Steven Jackson money .... Thats just my gut feeling.