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Stemp
12-01-2011, 08:20 PM
Word on the message boards and Twitter-verse is that Mike Sherman has been fired / resigned as head football coach.

Top leading candidates to replace him are Kevin Sumlin and Jon Gruden and apparently one of the two has agreed in principle.

Word is, if it is Sumlin (which is expected) he would be announced after the C-USA championship game this weekend and would start right away, meaning an assistant coach would likely lead the Cougars at a possible BCS bowl.

Say Watt
12-01-2011, 08:26 PM
Word on the message boards and Twitter-verse is that Mike Sherman has been fired / resigned as head football coach.

Top leading candidates to replace him are Kevin Sumlin and Jon Gruden and apparently one of the two has agreed in principle.

Word is, if it is Sumlin (which is expected) he would be announced after the C-USA championship game this weekend and would start right away, meaning an assistant coach would likely lead the Cougars at a possible BCS bowl.

If the last part ends up being correct, I am going to be pissed. This is just ridiculous. They need to stop allowing teams to talk to head coaches with a job until after the national championship.

Hookem Horns
12-01-2011, 08:26 PM
Why would Sumlin take a demotion from U of H to A & M? :kitten:

Hervoyel
12-01-2011, 08:39 PM
That would be absolutely terrible if Sumlin turned around and did the exact same thing that Art Briles did. What a lousy kick to the gut that would be. Send the best team UH has fielded in well over 40 years to the first BCS Bowl game they've ever qualified to play in without their head coach and part of their staff (assuming he'd take some of them with him).

I'd lose all respect for him just like I did for Briles.

Why would Sumlin take a demotion from U of H to A & M? :kitten:

Exactly. A&M is a coaches graveyard.

Doppelganger
12-01-2011, 08:43 PM
This is what happens in a BCS system. UH is not in a BCS conference and A&M is. Until the system is fixed, you will always have good coaches ditching top non BCS schools for mid level BCS ones.

Stemp
12-01-2011, 08:45 PM
That would be absolutely terrible if Sumlin turned around and did the exact same thing that Art Briles did. What a lousy kick to the gut that would be. Send the best team UH has fielded in well over 40 years to the first BCS Bowl game they've ever qualified to play in without their head coach and part of their staff (assuming he'd take some of them with him).

I'd lose all respect for him just like I did for Briles.



Exactly. A&M is a coaches graveyard.

As much as I love UH, having gone there for several semesters, I think the Coog fans need stop drinking the koolaid if they believe UH is better coaching job than A&M.

Not only will A&M more than double his salary, which UH couldn't even try to do, he'll be coaching the only Texas school in the best football conference in the country.

MojoMan
12-01-2011, 08:46 PM
Maybe the Jags will pick him up. They need a head coach.

:kitten:

Stemp
12-01-2011, 08:46 PM
This is what happens in a BCS system. UH is not in a BCS conference and A&M is. Until the system is fixed, you will always have good coaches ditching top non BCS schools for mid level BCS ones.

Bigger fish often poach from smaller fish. Even if UH was in the Big East this year, Sumlin would still leave for A&M, OU, texas or even Baylor.

Hervoyel
12-01-2011, 09:05 PM
As much as I love UH, having gone there for several semesters, I think the Coog fans need stop drinking the koolaid if they believe UH is better coaching job than A&M.

Not only will A&M more than double his salary, which UH couldn't even try to do, he'll be coaching the only Texas school in the best football conference in the country.

I wouldn't be surprised if UH could in fact double his salary. There's a lot riding on that program at this particular moment. Moving to the Big East, continuing the process of getting the new stadium started and funded. It's not a matter of drinking the koolaid here.

A&M is a coaching black-hole and has been for years. Now that job doesn't even have the one truly compelling feature it ever really enjoyed: a game with UT. Who wants to be the first A&M head coach in over a hundred years not to be playing the most hated rival the school as ever had?

Without Alabama nobody would give a **** who Auburn was. Without UT there will be diminishing interest in A&M and that interest will be lessened even more as they enter the SEC where the next aggie head coach will be coaching the only Texas school in a conference it cannot hope to be more than an also-ran in.

Aggies are deluded about the appeal of their program and that job. If Sumlin wants to leave he can choose from jobs all over the country. If he wants to leave he's earned it I guess. We'll find another coach and keep trying to climb back up to where we belong. I just hope he doesn't screw his players over like Briles did. That would be unforgivable in my eyes.

Ole Miss Texan
12-01-2011, 09:17 PM
Why in the hell would Sumlin leave before a BCS game? That makes zero sense.

texanhead08
12-01-2011, 10:23 PM
Why in the hell would Sumlin leave before a BCS game? That makes zero sense.

That's how it always works and why would you want someone who left you coaching your team.

FirstTexansFan
12-01-2011, 10:26 PM
Well don't give two cents who they bring in, just glad Sherman's gone... was begging for his head on a platter all year.

BattleRedToro
12-01-2011, 10:30 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if UH could in fact double his salary. There's a lot riding on that program at this particular moment. Moving to the Big East, continuing the process of getting the new stadium started and funded. It's not a matter of drinking the koolaid here.

A&M is a coaching black-hole and has been for years. Now that job doesn't even have the one truly compelling feature it ever really enjoyed: a game with UT. Who wants to be the first A&M head coach in over a hundred years not to be playing the most hated rival the school as ever had?

Without Alabama nobody would give a **** who Auburn was. Without UT there will be diminishing interest in A&M and that interest will be lessened even more as they enter the SEC where the next aggie head coach will be coaching the only Texas school in a conference it cannot hope to be more than an also-ran in.

Aggies are deluded about the appeal of their program and that job. If Sumlin wants to leave he can choose from jobs all over the country. If he wants to leave he's earned it I guess. We'll find another coach and keep trying to climb back up to where we belong. I just hope he doesn't screw his players over like Briles did. That would be unforgivable in my eyes.

There is a huge difference between ATM and UH. One team is working on improving their facilities and the other already has and is still improving their facilities even more. One team is entering into a new conference and the other is entering the best conference in the entire country.

pbat488
12-01-2011, 11:16 PM
not sure how I feel about this.. on one side, he brought about massive changes to how our players acted and conducted themselves compared to the franchione era, but he also hasn't had the results except for 2010, so it's hard to truly say there's been a change. however, with myself saying that, I can just take a look at the team now and see the change in character, demeanor, and athleticism we have now compared to 2008. it's all very weird.

Say Watt
12-01-2011, 11:46 PM
It seems every great player for A&M has regressed under Sherman. Tannehill was great last year; sucked this year. Gray was amazing last year; he was above average (not great or amazing) this year. Christine Michael was amazing his freshman year; has been injured since but not dominant when he has played. Even Fuller seemed to regress this year. I know he was injured but even when he was healthy towards the end of the year, he just didn't seem like the same dominant player. Same goes for Judie compared to last year.

Anyone else notice the same thing? It extends back further. Same thing happened to Jerrod Johnson (although there were shoulder issues there). It just seems like when the players really started to learn Sherman's system and should have gotten better, they got worse.

Dutchrudder
12-02-2011, 12:40 AM
Oh sweet, hire Sumlin so that every school in the state can hate us! Great plan Byrne!

...

Sumlin is a big fish in a small pond making success with his predecessor's recruits. I don't like him one bit for any BCS school, let alone one in the SEC. This would be a terrible move for both A&M and Sumlin. I would much rather see them get the DC from Bama or another great SEC coordinator. We need a strong defensive minded coach if we want to compete in the SEC by 2015...

SAMURAITEXAN
12-02-2011, 01:05 AM
Should A&M goes after Sumlin, UH should go after Sherman and install ZBS.
This way we have better chance watching home grown play for the Texans!!!

Vinny
12-02-2011, 01:08 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if UH could in fact double his salary. There's a lot riding on that program at this particular moment. Moving to the Big East, continuing the process of getting the new stadium started and funded. It's not a matter of drinking the koolaid here.

A&M is a coaching black-hole and has been for years. Now that job doesn't even have the one truly compelling feature it ever really enjoyed: a game with UT. Who wants to be the first A&M head coach in over a hundred years not to be playing the most hated rival the school as ever had?

Without Alabama nobody would give a **** who Auburn was. Without UT there will be diminishing interest in A&M and that interest will be lessened even more as they enter the SEC where the next aggie head coach will be coaching the only Texas school in a conference it cannot hope to be more than an also-ran in.

Aggies are deluded about the appeal of their program and that job. If Sumlin wants to leave he can choose from jobs all over the country. If he wants to leave he's earned it I guess. We'll find another coach and keep trying to climb back up to where we belong. I just hope he doesn't screw his players over like Briles did. That would be unforgivable in my eyes.

I think the appeal of coaching in the SEC is a powerful one. People outside of Aggieland have tried to marginalize the impact of being in the SEC but it ain't stopping at being a more coveted coaching position. Recruiting is going to become almost easy for the Aggies. I think your perception of the Ags is a backwards looking one, but I see this program taking off now that they are in the SEC. If I were the Ags I'd be very careful with this next Coach. The program is ready to take off big time with the right guy.

Dan B.
12-02-2011, 04:28 AM
As much as I love UH, having gone there for several semesters, I think the Coog fans need stop drinking the koolaid if they believe UH is better coaching job than A&M.

Not only will A&M more than double his salary, which UH couldn't even try to do, he'll be coaching the only Texas school in the best football conference in the country.

Why should Sumlin trust them to pay that doubled salary? A&M is in the process of weaseling out of paying Sherman for his contract extension. Let's just say if I'm Sumlin I'm demanding a hefty front loaded contract.

And I'm looking for Bowtie's signature before I sign.

Ole Miss Texan
12-02-2011, 08:34 AM
That's how it always works and why would you want someone who left you coaching your team.

When was the last time a coach quit on his team before the Sugar Bowl to go to another program starting with the Meineke Car Car Bowl. That would be a BAD move for A&M to make Sumlin make and it would dumb for Sumlin to do. Sumlin would have much more going for him in the recruiting realm staying at UH till the end of the season and leading the Cougars to the Sugar Bowl vs. quitting on them and going to a brand new team with no players he knows, a system that's not his, coaches he doesn't know and coaching them in a meaningless bowl game 3 weeks later.

Hervoyel
12-02-2011, 08:42 AM
I think the appeal of coaching in the SEC is a powerful one. People outside of Aggieland have tried to marginalize the impact of being in the SEC but it ain't stopping at being a more coveted coaching position. Recruiting is going to become almost easy for the Aggies. I think your perception of the Ags is a backwards looking one, but I see this program taking off now that they are in the SEC. If I were the Ags I'd be very careful with this next Coach. The program is ready to take off big time with the right guy.


I'm just pissed because UH has a good thing going (another good thing going) and here comes another program in to suddenly snatch that guy away again. I refuse to believe that Houston's program can't also "take off" and hoped that Sumlin would be the guy who wanted to build something long term. All we get these days is a guy who comes in, has the start of some success, and then turns it into a bigger payday somewhere else. Nobody wants to be that long-term coach who comes to define the program anymore.

I don't agree that my view of A&M is a backwards looking one. I do not see a lot of success in their future over there. They've just traded being UT's ***** for taking turns being LSU & Alabama's *****.

Mr. White
12-02-2011, 08:43 AM
When he got hired, I said that I didn't think he had the personality to recruit with Stoops and Brown. Based on what I hear from the recruiting authorities, it sounds like that's what he was best at.

Texaninlild
12-02-2011, 08:52 AM
I do not know if Sumlin is the right man for the job. He has done great things with UH and possibly with the right defensive coordinator and good coaches around him he could surprise me. He would have nearly unlimited resources at ATM, but he needs to bring top talent to walk into the SEC. Other than a good young offensive line I do not know what ATM has cooking as far as talent returning.

Mr. White
12-02-2011, 09:10 AM
Regarding Sumlin, the rumored ASU offer is $4 million.

If A&M is going after the guy, then I don't think the Coogs can afford to get involved in that kind of a bidding war. Hell, I'm pretty sure that they've been priced out of the market right now.

I'm impressed that they've been able to keep Sumlin around this long. The positive here is that Mack Rhodes seems like he's a competent AD. As long as they keep that guy around, then I expect them to keep growing the program into something other than a stepping stone.

I just hope that they hire another guy with a man's name this time. When they hired a guy with a woman's name, it set the program back decades.

PsychoLove
12-02-2011, 09:33 AM
Why does and why would John Gruden name come up?

http://www.takeyourskirtofftombrady.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/RalphWiggum2.gif

Dutchrudder
12-02-2011, 10:31 AM
When was the last time a coach quit on his team before the Sugar Bowl to go to another program starting with the Meineke Car Car Bowl. That would be a BAD move for A&M to make Sumlin make and it would dumb for Sumlin to do. Sumlin would have much more going for him in the recruiting realm staying at UH till the end of the season and leading the Cougars to the Sugar Bowl vs. quitting on them and going to a brand new team with no players he knows, a system that's not his, coaches he doesn't know and coaching them in a meaningless bowl game 3 weeks later.

The last time something like that happened was a few years ago when Notre Dame hired Cincy's coach Brian Kelley, right before Cincy was going to play Florida in a BCS bowl. Cincy got blown out by Tim Tebow in that one, but I recall watching that game and it really did feel like the team gave up. I certainly don't want to see that happen to the Coogs this year, and I hope Sumlin has the decency to wait until after the bowl game to make a decision.

By the way, even if Sumlin takes a job elsewhere he won't be the new coach until after bowl season, so either way he will still be coaching the Coogs for the Sugar Bowl.

Hervoyel
12-02-2011, 10:37 AM
The last time something like that happened was a few years ago when Notre Dame hired Cincy's coach Brian Kelley, right before Cincy was going to play Florida in a BCS bowl. Cincy got blown out by Tim Tebow in that one, but I recall watching that game and it really did feel like the team gave up. I certainly don't want to see that happen to the Coogs this year, and I hope Sumlin has the decency to wait until after the bowl game to make a decision.

By the way, even if Sumlin takes a job elsewhere he won't be the new coach until after bowl season, so either way he will still be coaching the Coogs for the Sugar Bowl.

Briles didn't wait to leave and I think that's what most UH fans have in mind right now. To this day I think Briles is a stinking piece of fecal matter. He's a member of the "I wouldn't urinate in your mouth if your throat was on fire" club in my eyes. Hate the man and hate Baylor until the end of time. Respect RGIII's amazing talent but Baylor is the ultimate evil in my eyes.

Sumlin goes to A&M and I won't feel that way. He and that school might be dead to me but I won't spend any time being angry over it. To be honest I don't pay attention to A&M much anyway. My interest in any college program outside of UH is kind of a very general "and I also want all the Texas teams ot win" sort of thing.

Ole Miss Texan
12-02-2011, 11:20 AM
The last time something like that happened was a few years ago when Notre Dame hired Cincy's coach Brian Kelley, right before Cincy was going to play Florida in a BCS bowl. Cincy got blown out by Tim Tebow in that one, but I recall watching that game and it really did feel like the team gave up. I certainly don't want to see that happen to the Coogs this year, and I hope Sumlin has the decency to wait until after the bowl game to make a decision.

By the way, even if Sumlin takes a job elsewhere he won't be the new coach until after bowl season, so either way he will still be coaching the Coogs for the Sugar Bowl.

Thanks Dutch, that's probably a perfect example! I just don't understand the coach's thought process. In Kelley's situation, he left to go to a 6-6 Notre Dame team that I don't think even had a bowl game.

In the case of Sumlin (still hypothetical)... I think it'd be best for both A&M AND Sumlin to wait until after the bowl games. For Sumlin, he gets to coach his team in the Sugar Bowl (likely), the team he put together and the best team in the history of the school. For A&M, they would be bringing in a coach that took his team to a BCS game and coached in it, who has that experience. That only helps with recruiting.

Otherwise, Sumlin goes to A&M before the bowl game and meets the players and coaches. Has a few weeks to get to know them and their strengths/weaknesses and then has to gameplan against another team for A&M's mediocre bowl game. Whether A&M wins or loses their bowl game probably has little effect on a recruits decision at this point. But Sumlin being able to recruit as taking his team to a BCS game outweighs him leaving early. Plus he wouldn't even start recruiting until AFTER bowl season anyways.

Texecutioner
12-02-2011, 11:33 AM
Aggs had better go find some serious HC who has the ability to build a powerhouse type of team, or they're going to suffer badly for a long time in the SEC. They had better do it right now as they introduce themselves into the new conference. A poor start in their first two seasons could end up being another decade of failures if they don't find the right guy this time around.

b0ng
12-02-2011, 11:33 AM
I'm sure it's Sumlin (Gruden? Really? Might as well have said it was between Kevin Sumlin and Bear Bryant), and I'm surprised UH was able to keep him for awhile. Hopefully the next coach they bring in will be as good as Briles and Sumlin was for the program, and we can hopefully keep him longer.

But this kind of stuff is to be expected until UH can worm it's way into a BCS conference. After that comes winning that conference year after year, or always competing until a bigger conference wants you. To me the whole "not coaching in the bowl" is kind of a dick move, but it's happened before. I will always recall this season fondly even if Sumlin gives us a bad nut tap on his way out.

Hopefully we can renovate Robertson stadium and Hoffeinz and hopefully the Big East doesn't just implode right after inviting the Coogs. That's all I can truly hope for anyway.

Doppelganger
12-02-2011, 11:43 AM
I think the appeal of coaching in the SEC is a powerful one. People outside of Aggieland have tried to marginalize the impact of being in the SEC but it ain't stopping at being a more coveted coaching position. Recruiting is going to become almost easy for the Aggies. I think your perception of the Ags is a backwards looking one, but I see this program taking off now that they are in the SEC. If I were the Ags I'd be very careful with this next Coach. The program is ready to take off big time with the right guy.

I get the appeal to coaching in the SEC, but I am not sure players necessarily will want to follow A&M into the SEC unless the Aggies have a couple of really good seasons. Playing in the SEC is tough and players like to be on winning programs. While in the Big XII, the Aggies struggled to get usually finish ahead of UT, OU, and for a long time Tech. If the Aggies struggled to finish fourth in the Big XII South, how will they fare in a much tougher SEC West where the likes of Alabama, LSU, and Arkansas reside.

The other thing to consider is that A&M is not the premier school in Texas. Whereas in Lousiana or Alabama, LSU and Alabama are the schools the local kids want to flock to, in this case, Texas is the school Texas schools go to. In order to draw interest and appeal, A&M needed a known National coach, like an Urban Meyer to draw the recruits in. Outside of Texas, how many people know who Kevin Sumlin is? Not too many. Bama made a spalsh by getting Saban, A&M needed one too and I don't think Sumlin is it.

I can see A&M becoming another Mississippi State type of SEC team, a solid team most years but typically overwhelmed by the LSU, Alabama, and Floridas of the SEC.

Doppelganger
12-02-2011, 11:50 AM
I'm sure it's Sumlin (Gruden? Really? Might as well have said it was between Kevin Sumlin and Bear Bryant), and I'm surprised UH was able to keep him for awhile. Hopefully the next coach they bring in will be as good as Briles and Sumlin was for the program, and we can hopefully keep him longer.

But this kind of stuff is to be expected until UH can worm it's way into a BCS conference. After that comes winning that conference year after year, or always competing until a bigger conference wants you. To me the whole "not coaching in the bowl" is kind of a dick move, but it's happened before. I will always recall this season fondly even if Sumlin gives us a bad nut tap on his way out.

Hopefully we can renovate Robertson stadium and Hoffeinz and hopefully the Big East doesn't just implode right after inviting the Coogs. That's all I can truly hope for anyway.

You have to look at it from the other side. With Sumlin as the coach, he needs to make recruiting trips, make phone calls, try to pull some of his recruits from UH to A&M and reassure the A&M recruits that Sherman pulled in. All of that takes time. you can't really do all of that and coach UH. It isn't fair to the UH players when they know their coach is thinking about another job. Better to cut the losses now.

disaacks3
12-02-2011, 11:53 AM
Why would Sumlin take a demotion from U of H to A & M? :kitten: Now, now....had Brown lost the Ags game, he might be looking for work now as well.

Oh sweet, hire Sumlin so that every school in the state can hate us! Great plan Byrne!

...

Sumlin is a big fish in a small pond making success with his predecessor's recruits. I don't like him one bit for any BCS school, let alone one in the SEC. This would be a terrible move for both A&M and Sumlin. I would much rather see them get the DC from Bama or another great SEC coordinator. We need a strong defensive minded coach if we want to compete in the SEC by 2015... You've got a point there. Than again, the ags need to play Offense in the 2nd half as well. Sherman is horrible at making 2nd half adjustments. Jackie Sherrill was great at it.

Vinny
12-02-2011, 11:54 AM
I get the appeal to coaching in the SEC, but I am not sure players necessarily will want to follow A&M into the SEC unless the Aggies have a couple of really good seasons. Playing in the SEC is tough and players like to be on winning programs. While in the Big XII, the Aggies struggled to get usually finish ahead of UT, OU, and for a long time Tech. If the Aggies struggled to finish fourth in the Big XII South, how will they fare in a much tougher SEC West where the likes of Alabama, LSU, and Arkansas reside.

The other thing to consider is that A&M is not the premier school in Texas. Whereas in Lousiana or Alabama, LSU and Alabama are the schools the local kids want to flock to, in this case, Texas is the school Texas schools go to. In order to draw interest and appeal, A&M needed a known National coach, like an Urban Meyer to draw the recruits in. Outside of Texas, how many people know who Kevin Sumlin is? Not too many. Bama made a spalsh by getting Saban, A&M needed one too and I don't think Sumlin is it.

I can see A&M becoming another Mississippi State type of SEC team, a solid team most years but typically overwhelmed by the LSU, Alabama, and Floridas of the SEC.

everyone wants to play in the SEC. Even kids I talk to down here practicing for their Regonal playoff game at Reliant here at La Porte HS. Super Soph Hoza Scott (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud0b7wywEe4) (he's an elite prospect) is really geeked about attending Aggie U and playing OLB in a SEC defense - that's what what he wants. For instance, Ole Miss (Ole Miss has a beautiful campus in Oxford - Northern Mississippi) is a perpetual doormat but they get TONS of talent simply because they play the big dogs of the SEC every year and the kids get the National exposure they want.

A&M is no Mississippi State. If you have ever been to the campuses you know that there is no comparison. No offense to the Miss St guys but its the ghetto compared to Aggieland. They don't have near the talent base to recruit from in lower Mississippi. A&M may as well be a Houston Campus as close as they are. I think the Ags will be a big player in about 4 years, and stay that way.

b0ng
12-02-2011, 11:58 AM
You have to look at it from the other side. With Sumlin as the coach, he needs to make recruiting trips, make phone calls, try to pull some of his recruits from UH to A&M and reassure the A&M recruits that Sherman pulled in. All of that takes time. you can't really do all of that and coach UH. It isn't fair to the UH players when they know their coach is thinking about another job. Better to cut the losses now.

Right but there have been plenty of coaches who have survived even though they coached their previous team in a bowl game then moved schools after that was over. That's why I said it's a dick move.

Doppelganger
12-02-2011, 12:38 PM
everyone wants to play in the SEC. Even kids I talk to down here practicing for their Regonal playoff game at Reliant here at La Porte HS. Super Soph Hoza Scott (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud0b7wywEe4) (he's an elite prospect) is really geeked about attending Aggie U and playing OLB in a SEC defense - that's what what he wants. For instance, Ole Miss (Ole Miss has a beautiful campus in Oxford - Northern Mississippi) is a perpetual doormat but they get TONS of talent simply because they play the big dogs of the SEC every year and the kids get the National exposure they want.

A&M is no Mississippi State. If you have ever been to the campuses you know that there is no comparison. No offense to the Miss St guys but its the ghetto compared to Aggieland. They don't have near the talent base to recruit from in lower Mississippi. A&M may as well be a Houston Campus as close as they are. I think the Ags will be a big player in about 4 years, and stay that way.

I do not know Hoza Scott and cannot speak for him. He may really want to play for A&M and that is fine. But I reiterate my point: A&M is still not the LSU of Texas. Some players want to play at A&M but the majority of high school Texas players dream of playing for UT.

When I compared A&M to Mississippi State I did not mean in terms of campuses, I meant in terms of winning. Students may want to be in the SEC, but football players like to win. A&M struggled to win big time games in an inferior Big XII. How are they going to do in a much tougher SEC? Ole Miss is a doormat, but gets good players BECAUSE they are the LSU of Mississippi. Mississippi players who want to stay in Mississippi dream of playing for Ole Miss.

I really think A&M will struggle in the SEC. Sure, they may get some additional recruits becuase they are going to the SEC, but the level of competition will be far tougher than anything they have ever faced. I don't think A&M will be a doormat like Ole Miss, but I think they will probably end up around 6 or 7 wins each year. Not enough to contend, but good enough for bowl games.

GP
12-02-2011, 12:52 PM
Leach has agreed to Washington State in principal only, from what I understand. He could look into the UH job.

I would think he'd recruit some really nice talent out of the Houston-Dallas-San Antonio schools. And at UH he's already inheriting a spread offense roster of guys who can easily pick up his brand of ball.

However, Leach stands to grab stellar recruits out of the California area while at WSU. He seems to have found ways to use the California pipeline while at Tech. The coach for my WTAMU Buffs also uses that California pipeline for JUCO players, with the WTAMU system completely built upon Leach's model.

I once thought the Aggies would suffer for the move to the SEC, but I think vinny has some pretty astute arguments for why it can become a better deal for TAMU than the Big 12 is. In the Big 12, the Texas-Oklahoma high school blue chippers always want to lean toward UT or OU, with OSU being an up-and-coming destination too.

I think the talent depth might be deeper for A&M in the SEC because a Texas-Oklahoma high school blue chipper might think "Man, I can play in the SEC and still stay close enough to drive home when I want to."

If you play for A&M, in the SEC, and you find a way to beat the better SEC teams...your draft stock will benefit. It's just the way it works.

disaacks3
12-02-2011, 12:54 PM
I do not know Hoza Scott and cannot speak for him. He may really want to play for A&M and that is fine. But I reiterate my point: A&M is still not the LSU of Texas. Some players want to play at A&M but the majority of high school Texas players dream of playing for UT. Quite an assertion there. They don't dream of playing for Alabama, LSU, Notre Dame, Florida, Oklahoma, etc?

I'd give 'em a comfortable edge over A&M, but nowhere near a majority.

Dutchrudder
12-02-2011, 01:14 PM
I get the appeal to coaching in the SEC, but I am not sure players necessarily will want to follow A&M into the SEC unless the Aggies have a couple of really good seasons. Playing in the SEC is tough and players like to be on winning programs. While in the Big XII, the Aggies struggled to get usually finish ahead of UT, OU, and for a long time Tech. If the Aggies struggled to finish fourth in the Big XII South, how will they fare in a much tougher SEC West where the likes of Alabama, LSU, and Arkansas reside.

The other thing to consider is that A&M is not the premier school in Texas. Whereas in Lousiana or Alabama, LSU and Alabama are the schools the local kids want to flock to, in this case, Texas is the school Texas schools go to. In order to draw interest and appeal, A&M needed a known National coach, like an Urban Meyer to draw the recruits in. Outside of Texas, how many people know who Kevin Sumlin is? Not too many. Bama made a spalsh by getting Saban, A&M needed one too and I don't think Sumlin is it.

I can see A&M becoming another Mississippi State type of SEC team, a solid team most years but typically overwhelmed by the LSU, Alabama, and Floridas of the SEC.

This is such crap. Kids don't flock to Auburn (the other big school in Alabama)? How did they win a national championship last year? Kids don't go to TCU because Texas gets all the good ones? What the hell are you talking about? LSU is the only big college in the state, that's why state kids tend to go there. Just like Ohio State tends to get the best Ohio recruits, when there isn't much competition in-state the BCS school tends to get the best recruits.

Texas is the best recruiting state in the country when it comes to football talent. Florida would probably be the next best comparatively. When you look at those two states, they both have a bunch of good football schools and several regularly compete for conference and national titles. UF, Fl St, Miami, are all top tier institutions for football and do well with in-state recruiting. You make it sound like A&M will never get another top prospect, but the fact is that the state of Texas can easily support multiple top tier football teams (see UT, TCU, U of H this year alone). Heck 90% of the OU team is from Texas. There's plenty to go around, they don't need to have the 'premiere school' distinction to get recruits.

Doppelganger
12-02-2011, 01:20 PM
Quite an assertion there. They don't dream of playing for Alabama, LSU, Notre Dame, Florida, Oklahoma, etc?

I'd give 'em a comfortable edge over A&M, but nowhere near a majority.

The majority of Texas high school football players dream of playing for Texas. Sure, some dream about Notre Dame, LSU, Florida, Oklahoma, etc, but most dream about Texas.

When there are Texas recruits involved and Texas wants the player, the vast majority of the time, the player commits to Texas. Sure Texas players go to Bama, Notre Dame, LSU, etc, but the majority who are wanted by the Horns wear Orange and White.

Doppelganger
12-02-2011, 01:23 PM
This is such crap. Kids don't flock to Auburn (the other big school in Alabama)? How did they win a national championship last year? Kids don't go to TCU because Texas gets all the good ones? What the hell are you talking about? LSU is the only big college in the state, that's why state kids tend to go there. Just like Ohio State tends to get the best Ohio recruits, when there isn't much competition in-state the BCS school tends to get the best recruits.

Texas is the best recruiting state in the country when it comes to football talent. Florida would probably be the next best comparatively. When you look at those two states, they both have a bunch of good football schools and several regularly compete for conference and national titles. UF, Fl St, Miami, are all top tier institutions for football and do well with in-state recruiting. You make it sound like A&M will never get another top prospect, but the fact is that the state of Texas can easily support multiple top tier football teams (see UT, TCU, U of H this year alone). Heck 90% of the OU team is from Texas. There's plenty to go around, they don't need to have the 'premiere school' distinction to get recruits.

You are misunderstanding me. I never said A&M will never get a top recruit, but look at what has happened. Texas typically gets the players it wants. A&M got solid players as well but where did it take them? 4th in the Big XII South? How is that going to translate into SEC success? I don't think it will.

Success inspires recruits. If A&M struggles and becomes a habitual 6 or 7 win team they will get the die hard A&M kids but they will lose out on others. Kids want to win.

Texecutioner
12-02-2011, 01:24 PM
Now, now....had Brown lost the Ags game, he might be looking for work now as well.



If that were the case, than I would have rooted for the Aggs big time in that game, but Mack is to beloved by the masses of UT fans. I'd love to see another coach at UT, but Mack is going to get at least two more seasons of failure before they would actually fire him.

Stemp
12-02-2011, 01:26 PM
The majority of Texas high school football players dream of playing for Texas. Sure, some dream about Notre Dame, LSU, Florida, Oklahoma, etc, but most dream about Texas.

When there are Texas recruits involved and Texas wants the player, the vast majority of the time, the player commits to Texas. Sure Texas players go to Bama, Notre Dame, LSU, etc, but the majority who are wanted by the Horns wear Orange and White.

You need to go beyond your own limited view.

Kids dream of playing for winners. Texas and OU have been winners while these guys were in middle and high school. Back in the 80s and 90 kids dreamed of A&M or OU because they winners.

You think kids who are coming up through school right now and watching Texas go 6-6 or 7-5 dream of playing for that team? No.

ziggy29
12-02-2011, 01:27 PM
Here's where I think A&M's move helps recruiting:

Texas kids who want to play in the SEC, but aren't quite highly regarded enough to be wooed by the likes of Alabama, LSU et al.

I don't know if that's a very large pool, but I can see some Texas kids who currently don't get recruited by one of the SEC perennial heavyweights but sign with another SEC school choosing the Aggies instead.

b0ng
12-02-2011, 01:34 PM
Here's where I think A&M's move helps recruiting:

Texas kids who want to play in the SEC, but aren't quite highly regarded enough to be wooed by the likes of Alabama, LSU et al.

I don't know if that's a very large pool, but I can see some Texas kids who currently don't get recruited by one of the SEC perennial heavyweights but sign with another SEC school choosing the Aggies instead.

It is a very large pool in fact. A lot of the kids these days who are super elite want to go to a place where they will get maximum exposure. The SEC is that place currently.

UT will always attract some of the best recruits in Texas, but Vinny is right, A&M has a bigtime trump card they can play over UT in the recruiting game.

FirstTexansFan
12-02-2011, 01:52 PM
The majority of Texas high school football players dream of playing for Texas. Sure, some dream about Notre Dame, LSU, Florida, Oklahoma, etc, but most dream about Texas.

When there are Texas recruits involved and Texas wants the player, the vast majority of the time, the player commits to Texas. Sure Texas players go to Bama, Notre Dame, LSU, etc, but the majority who are wanted by the Horns wear Orange and White.

We don't disagree often, but on this one I gotta call BS :) All you have to do is look at history... you're telling me when Texas had Fred Akers and John Mackovic, Texas HS players dreamed of playing for Texas? These things go in cycles... just like the wind, it will change direction, always has, always will :)

b0ng
12-02-2011, 01:57 PM
We don't disagree often, but on this one I gotta call BS :) All you have to do is look at history... you're telling me when Texas had Fred Akers and John Mackovic, Texas HS players dreamed of playing for Texas? These things go in cycles... just like the wind, it will change direction, always has, always will :)

Thing is, with Texas it shouldn't be a cycle. They have the biggest recruiting footprint in one of the best states for young football players, some of the best facilities on the planet and a gigantic money deal for their own (private, heh) television network. With all of the resources at UT's disposals they should always be competing for the BigXII title every year.

There are many fans of other successful college teams that would be absolutely clamoring for Brown to be fired by now, yet you don't really hear much of that from the UT crowd. It's kinda weird.

ziggy29
12-02-2011, 01:58 PM
We don't disagree often, but on this one I gotta call BS :) All you have to do is look at history... you're telling me when Texas had Fred Akers and John Mackovic, Texas HS players dreamed of playing for Texas? These things go in cycles... just like the wind, it will change direction, always has, always will :)

Partially true, but I think the college football landscape (and economics) are more and more lopsided and "the money" is huge enough today to create a permanent elite and a permanent underclass, much as in MLB. As this phenomenon progresses, the advantages that the biggest, wealthiest behemoths have in terms of facilities, recruiting and TV revenues grow even through inertia.

The influence of changing college football economics wasn't really in full swing in the Akers/Mackovic era, IMO.

And as for all this conference jumping, don't get me started on the hypocrisy of a sport and a governing body that markets "tradition" while it actively seeks to kill tradition in pursuit of the almighty dollar (or TV market).

FirstTexansFan
12-02-2011, 02:05 PM
There are many fans of other successful college teams that would be absolutely clamoring for Brown to be fired by now, yet you don't really hear much of that from the UT crowd. It's kinda weird.

I'm all for firing Brown... bring back Fred Akers LOL

while it actively seeks to kill tradition in pursuit of the almighty dollar (or TV market).

I couldn't agree more with this line :)

bah007
12-02-2011, 02:28 PM
I wouldn't be so sure about Sumlin going to A&M. I do think he will leave UH, but I think it will be for Arizona St. Unfortunately for UH, they are just a stepping stone right now as far as the coaching community is concerned. Hopefully the move to the Big East will change that.

I am hearing that A&M is down to four candidates, Sumlin being one. The others are:

Charlie Strong - Head Coach, Louisville
Larry Fedora - Head Coach, Soutern Miss
Kirby Smart - Defensive Coordinator, Alabama

I think that Sumlin is a great coach, but I would look for A&M to hire a defensive-minded coach for a change. Strong would be a great choice, in my opinion.

b0ng
12-02-2011, 02:32 PM
I wouldn't be so sure about Sumlin going to A&M. I do think he will leave UH, but I think it will be for Arizona St. Unfortunately for UH, they are just a stepping stone right now as far as the coaching community is concerned. Hopefully the move to the Big East will change that.

I am hearing that A&M is down to four candidates, Sumling being one. The others are:

Charlie Strong - Head Coach, Louisville
Larry Fedora - Head Coach, Soutern Miss
Kirby Smart - Defensive Coordinator, Alabama

I think that Sumlin is a great coach, but I would look for A&M to hire a defensive-minded coach for a change.

I read on twitter and a few other places with unsourced info that ASU did not offer Sumlin a job. And certainly didn't offer him one for $4 million.

$4 million seems like and awful lot of money for a coach like Sumlin but what do I know.

bah007
12-02-2011, 02:35 PM
I read on twitter and a few other places with unsourced info that ASU did not offer Sumlin a job. And certainly didn't offer him one for $4 million.

$4 million seems like and awful lot of money for a coach like Sumlin but what do I know.

I seriously doubt he was offered $4 million. That's a lot of money.

But if I'm Arizona St I'm looking hard at Sumlin. They have a pretty talented QB coming back next year too.

I just don't think Sumlin fits in at A&M. The other three candidates would be better fits I think.

thunderkyss
12-02-2011, 02:58 PM
A&M is no Mississippi State.

off topic....

Has anyone noticed how many players in the NFL came from TCU?

It's like every week I hear one player, "from TCU"

Say Watt
12-02-2011, 02:58 PM
This is such crap. Kids don't flock to Auburn (the other big school in Alabama)? How did they win a national championship last year? Kids don't go to TCU because Texas gets all the good ones? What the hell are you talking about? LSU is the only big college in the state, that's why state kids tend to go there. Just like Ohio State tends to get the best Ohio recruits, when there isn't much competition in-state the BCS school tends to get the best recruits.

Texas is the best recruiting state in the country when it comes to football talent. Florida would probably be the next best comparatively. When you look at those two states, they both have a bunch of good football schools and several regularly compete for conference and national titles. UF, Fl St, Miami, are all top tier institutions for football and do well with in-state recruiting. You make it sound like A&M will never get another top prospect, but the fact is that the state of Texas can easily support multiple top tier football teams (see UT, TCU, U of H this year alone). Heck 90% of the OU team is from Texas. There's plenty to go around, they don't need to have the 'premiere school' distinction to get recruits.

Thanks for saving me the time. This was exactly what I was going to bring up, especially the deal with Alabama and Auburn. For years, Auburn was the better team and Alabama was in the cellar. So saying that A&M can't compete in the SEC simply because Texas takes all the recruits just simply isn't true. There are enough Texas recruits to go around.

Say Watt
12-02-2011, 03:04 PM
I'm curious about something though. How is Arizona State a real upgrade from UH? I mean I understand they are in a power conference but other than that, what do they have? I'd consider A&M a better destination with more money, better facilities, 80k plus every game, and consistent top 15-20 recruiting classes.

I'm not quite sure I could understand the move to Arizona State unless of course Sumlin doesn't think he is a good enough coach to be able to keep UH competitive once Keenum leaves and that he needs to jump on the first available open position. Thoughts?

Ole Miss Texan
12-02-2011, 03:07 PM
Sounding like the root of A&M's problems are at the very top of the totem pole. Sherman/Byrne the least of problems. I think with the way this is going down, coaches are going to be VERY wary about taking the A&M job right now.

I think UH fans can breath a little sigh of relief, Sumlin may leave but I doubt its to A&M. He's too smart.

Say Watt
12-02-2011, 03:10 PM
Sounding like the root of A&M's problems are at the very top of the totem pole. Sherman/Byrne the least of of problems. I think with the way this is going down, coaches are going to be VERY wary about taking the A&M job right now.

What makes you say that? You are going to be wrong. A&M will get a good coach. A&M has still been able to recruit the last 10 years with Fran and then Sherman at the helm. The problem was not the school or their ability to recruit. The problem was the crappy coaches. Sherman was a good guy but had the worst 2nd half adjustments of just about any coach in football. Fran was just a terrible all around coach. I doubt the guy will ever get another coaching job again.

With the right coach, the Aggies could make a push. I don't ever see them being perennial contenders like Alabama and LSU, but I could certainly see them having some great years like Auburn.

Dan B.
12-02-2011, 03:11 PM
Sounding like the root of A&M's problems are at the very top of the totem pole. Sherman/Byrne the least of of problems. I think with the way this is going down, coaches are going to be VERY wary about taking the A&M job right now.

I think UH fans can breath a little sigh of relief, Sumlin may leave but I doubt its to A&M. He's too smart.

What are you saying?

Why would a coach be wary of signing a contract with a school that reneged on their last coach's deal? Why be wary of playing for a school that lets their message board run their program? What is there to worry about?

Dutchrudder
12-02-2011, 03:12 PM
I wouldn't be so sure about Sumlin going to A&M. I do think he will leave UH, but I think it will be for Arizona St. Unfortunately for UH, they are just a stepping stone right now as far as the coaching community is concerned. Hopefully the move to the Big East will change that.

I am hearing that A&M is down to four candidates, Sumlin being one. The others are:

Charlie Strong - Head Coach, Louisville
Larry Fedora - Head Coach, Soutern Miss
Kirby Smart - Defensive Coordinator, Alabama

I think that Sumlin is a great coach, but I would look for A&M to hire a defensive-minded coach for a change. Strong would be a great choice, in my opinion.

Kirby Smart would be the best A&M can do by far. Sherman had a nice big contract, so if they can afford to offer him the same amount of money maybe they can get Smart. He may be able to poach some Bama recruits on the way... :evil:

ChampionTexan
12-02-2011, 03:17 PM
off topic....

Has anyone noticed how many players in the NFL came from TCU?

It's like every week I hear one player, "from TCU"

NFL Players by College (http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/t)

pbat488
12-02-2011, 03:37 PM
I just don't think Sumlin fits in at A&M. The other three candidates would be better fits I think.

sumlin was OC here in the early 2000s for a time, so he atleast knows/understands what a&m is about/like.

Fran was just a terrible all around coach. I doubt the guy will ever get another coaching job again.


he's currently the HC at texas state.

Dutchrudder
12-02-2011, 03:40 PM
he's currently the HC at texas state.

Does that count?

:kitten:

bah007
12-02-2011, 03:46 PM
sumlin was OC here in the early 2000s for a time, so he atleast knows/understands what a&m is about/like....

I understand that. And I certainly think he is worthy of at least an interview.

I just think that with A&M moving to the SEC they should go with a more defensive-minded coach.

Of the final four candidates (from what I've heard), I think Charlie Strong and Kirby Smart make the most sense.

On the other hand, Sumlin has two previous years of experience at A&M and Larry Fedora was born and raised in College Station. I think some of his family still lives there.

They face a difficult and interesting choice, but all four guys are great coaches.

Doppelganger
12-02-2011, 04:01 PM
You need to go beyond your own limited view.

Kids dream of playing for winners. Texas and OU have been winners while these guys were in middle and high school. Back in the 80s and 90 kids dreamed of A&M or OU because they winners.

You think kids who are coming up through school right now and watching Texas go 6-6 or 7-5 dream of playing for that team? No.

I don't think my view is limited. In fact your main argument bolsters my position "Kids dream of playing for winners." I agree, players want to be part of a winning tradition. And for the most part The University of Texas has been a winning football program.

Texas has the second most amount of wins in NCAA history behind Michigan. Texas reeled off 9 straight years of winning at least 10 games per year. Since the BCS came into existence, Texas has been in BCS games 4 times. Texas has one 1 National Championship in that time frame and was in the Championship game a couple of years ago.

None of the other Texas schools have come close to these stats. A&M, TCU, SMU, Tech, UH, or any other Texas school has not come close to those numbers. Each of those schools has had periods when they were very good, but none have had the continued stayed success UT has had.

Another thing to consider is the name branding. Many Texans are Texancentric. Moreso than in other places, Texans are very proud of all things Texas. Texas Pride is something that is foreign in other states. You go to Massachusetts or Rhode Island and you don't see that same determined fierce Massachusetts or Rhode Island state pride. As such the University of Texas is held in pretty high regard. Partially becuase it branded itself years ago as such. Unless someone has strong familial ties to another school, such as A&M, they tend to cheer for UT.

To a degree, The University of Texas is the Notre Dame of the region. It will take many, many years of losing and a lot of negatives to derail all that history. Look at Notre Dame. It has not really been contending for Natl Championships since Lou Holtz was there in the mid 90s. Yet, they still have the aura and appeal of being Notre Dame. The same thing holds true of UT. Sure they have been down the last couple of years, but they still hold the same aura and appeal simply becuase they are Texas.

Say Watt
12-02-2011, 04:03 PM
he's currently the HC at texas state.

Really?!?! Wow! Didn't think that guy would ever find another job again. He was a horrible head coach.

They went 6-6 this year which is certainly par for the course for good old Fran.

Doppelganger
12-02-2011, 04:03 PM
Kirby Smart would be the best A&M can do by far. Sherman had a nice big contract, so if they can afford to offer him the same amount of money maybe they can get Smart. He may be able to poach some Bama recruits on the way... :evil:

Smart would be a BRILLIANT hire in my mind. He brings tough a hard nosed SEC Defensive mentality that the Aggies will face week in and week out. Getting the Aggies back to the days of the Wrecking Crew is their best chance of competing in the SEC.

pbat488
12-02-2011, 04:04 PM
so apparently sherman was fired over cell phone after an unnamed leak in either the athletic department or board of regents leaked it to kirk bohls... read that his family knew about it first and the cell phone call was made to limit damage control but i'm pretty freaking pissed to learn that that's how we fired a man like mike sherman.

Ole Miss Texan
12-02-2011, 04:05 PM
What makes you say that? You are going to be wrong. A&M will get a good coach. A&M has still been able to recruit the last 10 years with Fran and then Sherman at the helm. The problem was not the school or their ability to recruit. The problem was the crappy coaches. Sherman was a good guy but had the worst 2nd half adjustments of just about any coach in football. Fran was just a terrible all around coach. I doubt the guy will ever get another coaching job again.

With the right coach, the Aggies could make a push. I don't ever see them being perennial contenders like Alabama and LSU, but I could certainly see them having some great years like Auburn.

What are you saying?

Why would a coach be wary of signing a contract with a school that reneged on their last coach's deal? Why be wary of playing for a school that lets their message board run their program? What is there to worry about?
I don't think A&M's real PROBLEMS are with their football program. Looks like Byrne was just an AD in title only. The parts that really worry me goes above all that and the people who were "running" this themselves. Better hope they know what they're doing, otherwise they're just going to hire a puppet AD and HC. Then you'll be looking for a new HC in another 4 years.

Ole Miss Texan
12-02-2011, 04:08 PM
so apparently sherman was fired over cell phone after an unnamed leak in either the athletic department or board of regents leaked it to kirk bohls... read that his family knew about it first and the cell phone call was made to limit damage control but i'm pretty freaking pissed to learn that that's how we fired a man like mike sherman.
It really isn't looking pretty is it. I think the sh*ts just hitting the fan and this story is going to develop a lot more. Like I said, better hope the BOR and Big $ guys know what they're doing..... but they're not going about it the Aggie way.

EDIT: So remember that contract extension and raise Sherman got in September? Well apparently he signed it but its been sitting on Loftin's desk UNSIGNED and UNEXECUTED.

gwallaia
12-02-2011, 05:24 PM
Sumlin will not coach the Sun Devils.
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/ncaa_football/111202-arizona-st.-ends-talks-with-sumlin%27s-agent

b0ng
12-02-2011, 07:16 PM
Sumlin will not coach the Sun Devils.
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/ncaa_football/111202-arizona-st.-ends-talks-with-sumlin%27s-agent

Feelin better

Dutchrudder
12-02-2011, 07:37 PM
Sumlin will not coach the Sun Devils.
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/ncaa_football/111202-arizona-st.-ends-talks-with-sumlin%27s-agent

Good, I hope the Coogs retain him, even if it requires a raise.

Pantherstang84
12-02-2011, 08:28 PM
Really?!?! Wow! Didn't think that guy would ever find another job again. He was a horrible head coach.

They went 6-6 this year which is certainly par for the course for good old Fran.

Texas State played an independent schedule with 6 BCS schools and 6 Southland Conference schools.

They lost only 1 game to a Southland Conference school. That was Sam Houston State.

Say Watt
12-02-2011, 08:47 PM
Texas State played an independent schedule with 6 BCS schools and 6 Southland Conference schools.

They lost only 1 game to a Southland Conference school. That was Sam Houston State.

Doesn't change the fact that Fran sucks. You'll see sooner or later.

Playoffs
12-02-2011, 10:32 PM
Mike Sherman fired from A&M.
Yet another classless move.

Say Watt
12-02-2011, 10:49 PM
Yet another classless move.

Since when did firing your head coach who just had a horrible season and lost the final game to your biggest rival in epic fashion become classless?

I mean some of you take the A&M hatred to new heights.

If they did it over the phone, then I agree that is classless. But simply firing him was the correct move. The guy has done nothing, hasn't won a bowl game (that I can remember), and found ways to lose games in epic fashion. He basically is what Kubiak has been without Wade.

I wonder how many of you that think what A&M did was "classless" yet at the same time wanted Kubiak fired. Sherman and Kubiak are basically the same dude.

pbat488
12-02-2011, 11:16 PM
for any interested in his final press conference, here's video and a transcript of it

http://v4.texags.com/Stories/3707


coach sherman is a stand-up, high class man. he's everything we wanted in a football coach and leader except that for whatever reason he couldn't get it to click on the field when it counts. I hate hate hate HATE, the way our administration handled this whole situation.. but I think it was the right move when it comes down to it. some people can only take you so far, and though coach sherman absolutely turned this program around from the depths of the end of fran's tenure to what we have now, sometimes a change is what's best for both parties involved.

here's to all the best for coach sherman and his family, I know he'll be successful in whatever he does next.

also, I'd like to point out something he said in his press conference which I thought was dead on..

I can say I gave them everything I had. Sometimes it's not always good enough, but I gave everything I had. I can leave here knowing I gave everything I had. Do I feel I deserve to be terminated? No, I don't. I think this program is headed in the right direction, but I understand we live in a society where it's easier to change than to fix. We live in a society today that is motivated by anonymous people that write baseless texts and twitters and it gets things stirred up. There's no accountability to that type of society, and the immediacy they request.

very insightful in my opinion, especially the part about changing rather than fixing. it's becoming much more common to just change and essentially give up on things than to work and try to fix things when they are broken. and i'm not just talking about material things, but relationships ending in divorce instead of trying to work things out. I don't know if this whole situation has me partly jaded but I found a lot of truth in those words. not sure about any others, but that's just what I took from it.

Dan B.
12-03-2011, 12:06 AM
It really isn't looking pretty is it. I think the sh*ts just hitting the fan and this story is going to develop a lot more. Like I said, better hope the BOR and Big $ guys know what they're doing..... but they're not going about it the Aggie way.

EDIT: So remember that contract extension and raise Sherman got in September? Well apparently he signed it but its been sitting on Loftin's desk UNSIGNED and UNEXECUTED.

Yea that's what I was alluding to earlier. I don't see why a coach on the rise would choose to go somewhere when they can't trust their AD to be in the loop, or even trust that their next paycheck is coming. Loftin may get away with not paying Sherman for his extension. But any decent coach is going to have serious qualms signing a contract or an extension with Texas A&M after they pull this stuff.

What was the quote from some wit on Texags?

"An Aggie does not lie, cheat, or steal. Or honor their contracts."

Dan B.
12-03-2011, 12:08 AM
Since when did firing your head coach who just had a horrible season and lost the final game to your biggest rival in epic fashion become classless?

I mean some of you take the A&M hatred to new heights.

If they did it over the phone, then I agree that is classless. But simply firing him was the correct move. The guy has done nothing, hasn't won a bowl game (that I can remember), and found ways to lose games in epic fashion.

Last year they offered Sherman an extension. He signed it. Now they are welching out of the deal. Explain how that's NOT classless.

He basically is what Kubiak has been without Wade.

I wonder how many of you that think what A&M did was "classless" yet at the same time wanted Kubiak fired. Sherman and Kubiak are basically the same dude.

Difference is the Texans didn't listen to the Pink Soapers. A&M does.

Playoffs
12-03-2011, 12:14 AM
Since when did firing your head coach who just had a horrible season and lost the final game to your biggest rival in epic fashion become classless? You're right, all class. :dontknowa

"It was disappointing, because my family found out before I did, because it was released (through a media leak) sooner than I was told," Sherman said. "That's disappointing, because I think we're better than that."

...

How much money the school brings to the table for Sherman's exit fees is another question, although an A&M official on Friday assured the two sides will sit down and hash out an agreement. The university announced a raise and one-year extension for Sherman over the summer, and Sherman said Friday he signed the new agreement in September. Loftin spokesman Jason Cook said after the document traded hands between attorneys, it didn't actually land on Loftin's desk until late October.

Loftin then never signed the new deal, and A&M is contending it will pay Sherman the remainder of his original contract: three years at $1.8 million annually.

"I'm not going to get into my contract, but I signed a five-year contract in September," Sherman said. "I never asked for (a raise and extension), it was brought to me. I never talked numbers, whatever they gave me I just signed."

Stemp
12-03-2011, 01:00 AM
The it went down was really bad. But only because someone leaked the results of the meeting that determined Sherman's fate to an AAS reporter, who then went online blame the information as a scoop. Then everyone found out, even before Sherman could be contacted. Whoever that leak is needs to be fired immediately.

disaacks3
12-03-2011, 10:01 AM
Kirby Smart would be the best A&M can do by far. Sherman had a nice big contract, so if they can afford to offer him the same amount of money maybe they can get Smart. He may be able to poach some Bama recruits on the way... :evil: Smart would be my choice as well, but I'm betting on Sumlin.

The it went down was really bad. But only because someone leaked the results of the meeting that determined Sherman's fate to an AAS reporter, who then went online blame the information as a scoop. Then everyone found out, even before Sherman could be contacted. Whoever that leak is needs to be fired immediately. You've got to have meetings about HC firings....some lovely person in those meetings (or their assistant) was the leak. It's not a "lack of class" as some suggest, but the best that could be done quickly after the situtation hit the press.

Playoffs
12-03-2011, 11:33 AM
Perfectly summed up by one of your own -- this is what everyone else sees. You have the wrong people steering your ship:

http://media3.texags.com/mobilevideo/0013088-ezhe-10.mp4

Dutchrudder
12-03-2011, 01:14 PM
Perfectly summed up by one of your own -- this is what everyone else sees. You have the wrong people steering your ship:

http://media3.texags.com/mobilevideo/0013088-ezhe-10.mp4

You know who else terminated their coach via cell phone? Penn State...

:kitten:

Playoffs
12-03-2011, 03:54 PM
Penn State...

:kitten:Unfair comparison. A&M is no Penn State, now ..... c'mon. :kubepalm:

Say Watt
12-03-2011, 04:24 PM
Last year they offered Sherman an extension. He signed it. Now they are welching out of the deal. Explain how that's NOT classless.



Difference is the Texans didn't listen to the Pink Soapers. A&M does.

You're right, all class. :dontknowa

"It was disappointing, because my family found out before I did, because it was released (through a media leak) sooner than I was told," Sherman said. "That's disappointing, because I think we're better than that."

...

How much money the school brings to the table for Sherman's exit fees is another question, although an A&M official on Friday assured the two sides will sit down and hash out an agreement. The university announced a raise and one-year extension for Sherman over the summer, and Sherman said Friday he signed the new agreement in September. Loftin spokesman Jason Cook said after the document traded hands between attorneys, it didn't actually land on Loftin's desk until late October.

Loftin then never signed the new deal, and A&M is contending it will pay Sherman the remainder of his original contract: three years at $1.8 million annually.

"I'm not going to get into my contract, but I signed a five-year contract in September," Sherman said. "I never asked for (a raise and extension), it was brought to me. I never talked numbers, whatever they gave me I just signed."

The quote asleep responded to was the thread title Mike Sherman fired from A&M

Call me crazy but that leads me to believe that he simply finds the firing of Sherman to be classless. After all, that was all he quoted. At no point did he say THE WAY they fired Sherman was classless.

I agree that having his family find out before him as well as doing it over the phone was classless. Also not signing the extension (although it was STUPID to offer him an extension to begin with) was classless.

Believe me, I've lost a lot of respect for the school if all of this turns out to be 100% true. But simply firing him was not wrong.

And include a link next time otherwise it didn't happen.

Pantherstang84
12-03-2011, 04:50 PM
Smart would be my choice as well, but I'm betting on Sumlin.

You've got to have meetings about HC firings....some lovely person in those meetings (or their assistant) was the leak. It's not a "lack of class" as some suggest, but the best that could be done quickly after the situtation hit the press.

Sorry, but unless the source of the leak is revealed and fired in a public manner, it shows the institution has no class. That type of behavior cannot be tolerated.

Dutchrudder
12-03-2011, 04:55 PM
Sorry, but unless the source of the leak is revealed and fired in a public manner, it shows the institution has no class. That type of behavior cannot be tolerated.

And exactly how do they figure out who the snitch is? It's not like the guy posted it on facebook.

Pantherstang84
12-03-2011, 05:00 PM
And exactly how do they figure out who the snitch is? It's not like the guy posted it on facebook.

They know who it is. Hunter Goodwin claims to know who it is. Goodwin makes a good point in the video clip in this thread. When you are part of an organization, everyone knows who the toxic people are. They are the ones who have axes to grind, personal vendettas, etc.

When meetings are held like the one that determined Mike Sherman's fate, the guest list is very exclusive. There are only a few people who knew the outcome of that meeting. One of them leaked it. They know who it is.

Playoffs
12-03-2011, 05:02 PM
And exactly how do they figure out who the snitch is? It's not like the guy posted it on facebook.You get the impression that they know exactly who leaked it from the radio show.

Ole Miss Texan
12-05-2011, 05:08 PM
In case anybody wants to watch Sherman's press conference:

http://www.ktrh.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=121300&article=9468575

Dutchrudder
12-06-2011, 05:06 PM
Gotta love the ESPN rumor page. Here's their entry on the A&M job search:

A&M job a 'death sentence?' 1:58PM ET
Texas A&M Aggies

Names to watch:
Kevin Sumlin - Houston head coach and former Texas A&M assistant coach.
Charlie Strong - Louisville head coach, former Texas A&M GA and successful assistant coach in the SEC.
Larry Fedora - Southern Miss head coach, former offensive coordinator at Florida and has shown ability to successfully turn around a program.
Kirby Smart - Alabama defensive coordinator, arguably the top coordinator candidate in the SEC.


UPDATE: As the Texas A&M Aggies continue to interview candidates for their vacant head coaching position, one observer says they're going to miss out on some good contenders due to the circumstances surrounding the job.

"I just think this is a death sentence now for whatever coach takes this job," says Brandon George of the Dallas Morning News. "You're going to have to reinvent the wheel here with this program. If you bring in a guy like Sumlin, he's going to pass the ball all over the place. You're going into the SEC, a conference that they're already going to be behind the eight-ball. This is really a death sentence. I can't imagine why Sumlin would want to jump from Houston to take this job in this situation because, in three or four years, he's going to be looking for another job."

- Vince Verhei

---

UPDATE: Houston's Kevin Sumlin and Southern Miss' Larry Fedora continue to be associated with one another after the two met for the C-USA Championship. Often their names are intertwined with multiple job openings around the country. This time, the pair of up-and-coming coaches interviewed for the Texas A&M opening on the same day according to one report.

"UH Football Coach Kevin Sumlin reportedly met for two hours with A&M AD Bill Byrne while at the National Coaches Meeting in New York," KPRC Local 2 Houston reported. "Byrne's interview process also , according to a source with knowledge of the Aggies process, included Southern Miss Head Coach Larry Fedora."

"Louisville Head Coach Charlie Strong and Alabama Defensive coordinator Kirby Smart are also expected to have interest and be contacted by Texas A&M."

The Aggies' coaching search continues to be tight an on-point with only a small handful of the same names surfacing.

---

It appears that Houston's Kevin Sumlin is the clear cut front runner to be the next head coach at Texas A&M. His name has been pulled from the likes of Arizona State and UCLA regarding their openings.

But, wait one second.

"At this point in my career I'm very, very happy at the University of Houston," Sumlin told Sam Khan Jr. of the Houston Chronicle. "I think there's a lot of things that can happen with us. I think conference realignment is critical and I think the stadium issue is critical for us to move forward and there's some limitations if those things don't happen."

Also, Sumlin isn't riding a wave of momentum at the moment. His opposite in the C-USA championship, Larry Fedora, is. Houston lost to Fedora's Southern Miss squad 49-28 in the title game.

As a result Fedora, who was already a coveted coach, has seen his stock soar in regards to multiple vacancies including Texas A&M. Fedora isn't the only one.

"Larry Fedora and Charlie Strong (Louisville) are hot at Texas A&M. Both rising fast," Football Rumor Mill tweeted.

- Brent Sobleski

Playoffs
12-06-2011, 05:11 PM
Mularkey, Mike Sherman, Jay Gruden among coaches on Jaguars radar (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/05/mularkey-sherman-jay-gruden-among-coaches-on-jaguars-radar)

keyser
12-06-2011, 11:05 PM
Thought some of you might be interested in the statement from Bowen Loftin (A&M's president) about the firing (this came by email to me, so no link; maybe it's on a webpage somewhere). It addresses the whole "fired by cell phone" bit.

To: Texas A&M Students, Faculty and Staff:

Many of you have expressed disdain about the manner in which head football coach Mike Sherman was dismissed last week. I share in your concerns. Let me assure you that our intention was for Coach Sherman to be informed of his dismissal in a face-to-face meeting last Friday morning. However, when this confidential information was leaked to a media outlet late Thursday afternoon, I instructed Athletic Director Bill Byrne to contact Coach Sherman as soon as possible, via cell phone because he was out of town. We wanted Coach Sherman to hear the news from a Texas A&M official first and not from a media report. Like you, I am angry that the mishandling of sensitive information forced us to react in this manner, and I am disappointed in this breach of trust. This is a reminder that in this age of instantaneous media, words have consequences and affect lives. All employees, and especially one who has done so much to instill our Aggie values into the lives of our student-athletes and larger student body, deserve better. I have the utmost respect for Coach Sherman, and appreciate the many contributions that he has made to Texas A&M.

R. Bowen Loftin
President

keyser
12-06-2011, 11:11 PM
...

Dutchrudder
12-07-2011, 12:07 AM
That's kind of how I figured things went. Decide to fire him on one day, schedule a meeting in the near future, but someone leaked the info so they had to call to inform him. **** happens, you can't control what some people do, but I do hope they make it a point to figure out who leaked the info and fire that guy.

bah007
12-07-2011, 10:22 AM
Gotta love the ESPN rumor page. Here's their entry on the A&M job search:

I wouldn't call it a death sentence but I can understand why the job wouldn't be very appealing right now.

With the move to the SEC, the Aggies are in for a dose of reality in the first couple of years. Now, the move may help recruiting and it may help bring more talent in to Texas A&M. But that doesn't change the fact that as of right now, the Aggies don't have the talent to compete in the SEC. Maybe they will in a few years, but why would anybody want to take a job where there is a good chance they will be fired before their own recruits even get some serious action on the field?

The A&M higher ups just need to understand that the new coach is going to need more than three years to get things going. And those first three years are probably going to be pretty bad, at least in my opinion.

I think moving to the SEC is a good move for A&M, but I would caution their fans about getting their expectations to high. A&M will need to settle in and build up some depth before they can even think about competing. A good example of what I expect A&M to look like for the next few years would be this year's Mississippi St team. If they can schedule four easy OOC games and knock off two of the weaker SEC teams, they will go bowling.

bah007
12-07-2011, 10:24 AM
I'm also seeing Sumlin's name now associated with the Head Coaching job at Illinois, but I don't think he has even interviewed for it yet.

Dutchrudder
12-07-2011, 10:45 AM
I wouldn't call it a death sentence but I can understand why the job wouldn't be very appealing right now.

With the move to the SEC, the Aggies are in for a dose of reality in the first couple of years. Now, the move may help recruiting and it may help bring more talent in to Texas A&M. But that doesn't change the fact that as of right now, the Aggies don't have the talent to compete in the SEC. Maybe they will in a few years, but why would anybody want to take a job where there is a good chance they will be fired before their own recruits even get some serious action on the field?

The A&M higher ups just need to understand that the new coach is going to need more than three years to get things going. And those first three years are probably going to be pretty bad, at least in my opinion.

I think moving to the SEC is a good move for A&M, but I would caution their fans about getting their expectations to high. A&M will need to settle in and build up some depth before they can even think about competing. A good example of what I expect A&M to look like for the next few years would be this year's Mississippi St team. If they can schedule four easy OOC games and knock off two of the weaker SEC teams, they will go bowling.

I think it's just over the top rhetoric to troll A&M fans. There's a lot of Aggies who think ESPN is now in bed with UT due to the LHN and that's forcing them to write articles debasing A&M. It's just funny to me that they would pose it as a question: Is the Texas A&M job a Death Sentence? Reminds me of Fox news questions like this:
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/20080826_trustfoxnews.jpg

I imagine Mike Sherman will wind up somewhere else, maybe in the NFL, but there was no guarantee that he couldn't win enough to keep his job. If A&M was 8-4 or better this year, I think Sherman would have kept his job. To call it a death sentence is just over the top though. If a guy like Kirby Smart comes in here and shows progress from year to year I think we will stick with him. Most Aggies I know realize that we are likely a 3-5 win team next year. We don't expect to compete that first year, or even the second, but by the third we should be at least a 7-5 team and show progress.

bah007
12-07-2011, 10:59 AM
I think it's just over the top rhetoric to troll A&M fans. There's a lot of Aggies who think ESPN is now in bed with UT due to the LHN and that's forcing them to write articles debasing A&M. It's just funny to me that they would pose it as a question: Is the Texas A&M job a Death Sentence? Reminds me of Fox news questions like this:
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/20080826_trustfoxnews.jpg

I imagine Mike Sherman will wind up somewhere else, maybe in the NFL, but there was no guarantee that he couldn't win enough to keep his job. If A&M was 8-4 or better this year, I think Sherman would have kept his job. To call it a death sentence is just over the top though. If a guy like Kirby Smart comes in here and shows progress from year to year I think we will stick with him. Most Aggies I know realize that we are likely a 3-5 win team next year. We don't expect to compete that first year, or even the second, but by the third we should be at least a 7-5 team and show progress.

Well hopefully the administration feels the same way as its fans then. Because its gonna be real hard to sell this job to somebody if they are being told they need to be able to compete immediately.

I don't think the A&M gig is a bad one at all. Hell, Bear Bryant held that job at one point. But with all that's going on there right now, I would rather be the second guy to coach them in the SEC than the first. I have a feeling that's how most of the candidates see it too.

Dutchrudder
12-07-2011, 11:36 AM
Can't speak for the administration, but I would hope they have more patience with the next coach.

Well lemme throw this out there since it's related. Kirby Smart has been the D coordinator at Alabama since 2007. He's 35, a graduate from the University of Georgia and he currently makes $750,000. A&M was paying Sherman 1.8 million a year (2.2 with the extension). I think A&M could pry him away for 2 million a year, unless he's holding out for the Georgia or Bama HC job. He's been at Bama working closely with Nick Saban for 4 years now, and I can only imagine he wants to be a HC somewhere. This could be a great opportunity for him to resurrect a program trending downward. He's the kind of mind we need to enter the SEC, someone who's been there for a while and knows the teams in the conference. If we got him, I'd be willing to give him at least 4 years to recruit and turn around this program.

Stemp
12-07-2011, 12:21 PM
So a guy I know and trust who has delivered on the scoop correctly numerous times said it's almost done and Sumlin in the hire. Fedora goes to UNC.

FirstTexansFan
12-07-2011, 12:33 PM
So a guy I know and trust who has delivered on the scoop correctly numerous times said it's almost done and Sumlin in the hire. Fedora goes to UNC.

Well if he's the choice... I do hope his defense is better than it looked in the C-USA game.

Stemp
12-07-2011, 12:35 PM
Well if he's the choice... I do hope his defense is better than it looked in the C-USA game.

Hoping he keeps the A&M D staff mostly intact.

Dutchrudder
12-07-2011, 01:10 PM
Here's a good twitter feed talking about the A&M job mostly:

https://twitter.com/ipanic2

Couple tweets:

It's over. You got your coach. Feel like I got kicked in the junk. I'm out. ^(reference to Sumlin)

Kevin Sumlin - 2 4 stars signed during his time at UH. Larry Fedora - 8 4 stars and 1 5 star. Who is the recruiter, again?

Playoffs
12-07-2011, 02:06 PM
There's a joke going around for open coaching vacancies for under-performing teams...


Sandusky named *insert school name* Head Coach

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/03/article-2069497-0F09500300000578-132_468x306.jpg

"I'll have them boys turned around in no time," he said.

Dutchrudder
12-08-2011, 10:51 AM
Edit: Nvm, looks like Sumlin is the guy.


Booooooooooooooooooooooooo.


December 7, 2011

Mark Passwaters and Jeff Tarpley

Talk about it in Northgate
A little less than a week after Mike Sherman was fired, it appears Texas A&M has found its next head coach.


Associated Press
Kevin Sumlin has won the derby to replace Mike Sherman.
Sources close to both the Texas A&M and University of Houston programs have told AggieYell.com that, barring a snag in financial negotiations, Houston coach Kevin Sumlin will be the next head coach of the Aggies.

An agreement is expected to be finalized by the end of the week.

Sumlin, 47, was named Conference USA Coach of the Year on Wednesday after leading the Cougars to a 12-1 record (No. 19 in the BCS standings) in 2011. The only loss of the season was a 49-28 drubbing at the hands of the University of Southern Mississippi in the C-USA title game, which catapulted Larry Fedora into the A&M coaching discussion as well.

According to the Associated Press, Fedora accepted the head job at the University of North Carolina Wednesday.

During his four seasons at Houston, Sumlin has compiled a 35-17 record and a 1-1 bowl mark. The Cougars will face Penn State in the TicketCity Bowl on Jan. 2, 2012, at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas.

Sumlin has a past history with A&M, serving as an assistant under former coach R.C. Slocum in 2001 and 2002. Sumlin took over as the Aggies' offensive coordinator four games into the 2002 season and held the position for the remainder of the year, until Slocum and his staff were fired after a 6-6 season.

Sumlin spent four years as an assistant at the University of Minnesota before spending the 1997-2000 seasons at Purdue - his alma mater - as the wide receivers coach.

After leaving College Station, Sumlin served as the special teams, tight ends and wide receivers coach, as well as co-offensive coordinator, at the University of Oklahoma from 2003-2007.

At Houston, Sumlin's offenses have racked up record totals in a pass-heavy spread scheme. The Cougars are currently ranked first in the nation in total offense, averaging 599 yards a game. Houston also leads the nation in passing offense (443.77 yards per game), but ranks 62 in rushing offense at 155 yards per game.



http://tamu.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=893&CID=1304127