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View Full Version : Is Kubiak free to let it all hang out from here on out?


Big Lou
11-30-2011, 10:21 PM
So this question is asked of you as a fan and a fan base. As I see it we will more than likely back in to the playoffs. Unless Yates turns out to be Tom Brady Lite, then we won't last long in the playoffs.

With this said that means from here on out this team is playing with the houses money. So if we go 10-6 and TJ isn't lighting it up, and acting as a guy under center handing the ball off 90% of the plays isn't getting in done are you allright with Kubiak going big and going all "Mad Offensive Scientist" during the playoffs?
I'm not talking trick plays every down but very unconventional stuff with trick plays thrown in. Almost all NFL Coaches play not to lose 75% the time. The only real unconventional gambler out there in my opinion is Sean Payton with onside kicks and such.

Strategically in an Art of War sense we will more than likely be a much weaker opponent in the playoffs. A force of 1,000 men would never go up against a force of 10,000 head to head. The smaller force needs a tactical advantage very its terrain, technological, or tactics. In the NFL the terrain is the same for both teams, and there is no technological advantage, the only advantage is tactical. So if Kubiak goes in and trys to slug it out odds are we're one and done.

So what if Wade calls his game as is because it works, but what if Kubes goes all "Animal backed in a corner" on opposing teams. If Kubiak goes very unconventional is that his tactical advantage?

I think the only way to win is a game plan that is so unconventional that defenses can't get a grip. This is easier said than done, but if it were so easy wouldn't everybody do it. I say no since most coaches don't want to be judged by the owner and fan base for bone headed plays. However Kubiak has nothing to lose in my opionion, but would you as a fan be cool with going all out?

mirage
11-30-2011, 10:24 PM
For me, it depends entirely on the matchup. If we face a high scoring team in the playoffs, let Kubiak go crazy with the play-calls. If we face a low scoring team, trust the D.

That being said, I would bet heavily on Kubes being very conservative on the play-calls for the remainder of the regular season. Our playoff spot is ours to lose.

steelbtexan
11-30-2011, 10:32 PM
He should

He wont

He as nothing to lose.

badboy
11-30-2011, 10:34 PM
Gary will continue to "dance with who brung him." We have great defense to keep us in games against anyone. We have two very good RBs and Ward ain't bad. TJ doesn't have to be Schaub just manage the game and don't lose it forcing throws or fumbling. Yates is more mobile than Schaub so that cannot hurt.

b0ng
11-30-2011, 11:13 PM
Um, if Kubiak starts having Yates throw the ball 40 or 50 times a game and we lose our way out of our first playoff berth the same old bull**** would kick up just as bad as before.

ObsiWan
12-01-2011, 12:14 AM
We must use our greatest strength, our defense, to force other teams into mistakes - spell that penalties (because they fear our pass rush) or even better, turnovers - hopefully a pick-six or scoop & score.

We must hide our weakness - rookie QB - by successfully establishing our running attack but passing just enough to keep them from bunching 8-9 in the box. When they do that, stack the box, we must make them pay.

And I don't get how you're thinking that "we will more than likely back in to the playoffs" if we win our division.

Malloy
12-01-2011, 02:40 AM
He should

He wont

He as nothing to lose.

I disagree, going crazy and landing a 8-8 season having Tennessee take the first place in the South WOULD be a loss. Trying to sneak in a couple of wins and possibly taking the South WOULD result in playoffs.

We have everything to lose.

Tailgate
12-01-2011, 05:55 AM
Vs Atlanta he could.... But should not. Take it as it comes for Yates, no sense in risking his confidence right out of the gate.

thunderkyss
12-01-2011, 05:55 AM
So this question is asked of you as a fan and a fan base. As I see it we will more than likely back in to the playoffs. Unless Yates turns out to be Tom Brady Lite, then we won't last long in the playoffs.]

Why are we going to "back" into the play-offs?

If we thought we had a chance to get into the play-offs & do something with Leinart, why can't we do something with Yates? At least, I think, let him play a game he's prepared for before we say he can't do it.

We weren't asking Leinart to set the league on fire. We felt if he could just "manage" the game & not try to prove he belongs in the league, we've got a shot at something special.

From what we've seen so far, I see no reason to believe we can't go forward with that "game manager" approach, or that Yates can't be that manager.

Trail.Blazr
12-01-2011, 07:34 AM
Vs Atlanta he could.... But should not. Take it as it comes for Yates, no sense in risking his confidence right out of the gate.

I believe we should play as if Yates were Schaub. We know he's not, but he's a QB. If Yates was not worthy of throwing the ball when the play calls for it, then no sense carrying a 2nd/3rd string roster slot.

To ignore the Yates factor, for a second, the smart play is still to take what the Defense will give. For Atlanta, with a stout run D and a VERY suspect 2ndary, IMHO, that says throw it.

Back to Yates. He's obviously the wild card. No way we want to ask the rookie in his first start to go all "Cam Newton". But, throughout the season, Schaub has not been asked to make 40 throws either. In Atlanta, if there's ever a game to ask Yates to step in and throw the pigskin around, this is the week.

Ultimately, the Texans' offense has been a balanced, play-action team all year and have had success. Keep that pot boiling if possible.

El Tejano
12-01-2011, 07:40 AM
I believe we should play as if Yates were Schaub. We know he's not, but he's a QB. If Yates was not worthy of throwing the ball when the play calls for it, then no sense carrying a 2nd/3rd string roster slot.To ignore the Yates factor, for a second, the smart play is still to take what the Defense will give. For Atlanta, with a stout run D and a VERY suspect 2ndary, IMHO, that says throw it.

Back to Yates. He's obviously the wild card. No way we want to ask the rookie in his first start to go all "Cam Newton". But, throughout the season, Schaub has not been asked to make 40 throws either. In Atlanta, if there's ever a game to ask Yates to step in and throw the pigskin around, this is the week.

Ultimately, the Texans' offense has been a balanced, play-action team all year and have had success. Keep that pot boiling if possible.

Remember when Kubiak believed in only carrying 2 QBs on the roster? Boy I bet he's glad he made the choice to keep 3 for some reason this year.

HJam72
12-01-2011, 07:47 AM
I really think it just all depends. Speaking in general, I'd like to see him take it up one notch at a time. Let Yetties prove himself when necessary or when applicable at least, then let Yotes do more if he earns it. Eventually, we will hopefully see Yates winning games like a real live starting QB. Course, if we get behind enough against whoever, you gotta let it fly, even if it's soon.

I hope Yates is the real deal, but there's no need to go crazy right from the start if we can win with him just "managing."

TimeKiller
12-01-2011, 08:30 AM
I'd throw a bomb on the first play in Atl. I wouldn't go completely mad scientist though. This offense is about ball control, consistent 4-7 yard gains and hoping eventually the opposing D just tires out or makes a big mistake.

If they plan on stacking safeties in the box though, I'd start throwing it deep to whoever they leave on an island. If I'm callin plays a win vs. Atl is NOT worth the health of Foster or Tate to me. I'm not calling for them to pound it into a brick wall 30 times just because Yates is inexperienced. Inexperience and suck are two completely different things.

thunderkyss
12-01-2011, 08:56 AM
Remember when Kubiak believed in only carrying 2 QBs on the roster? Boy I bet he's glad he made the choice to keep 3 for some reason this year.

We've had 3 QBs on the roster for a while.

Usually, we only activate 2 for Game day.

LikeMike
12-01-2011, 08:57 AM
Let it all hang out - man I hope not, that sounds kinda dirty...

disaacks3
12-01-2011, 09:13 AM
Vs Atlanta he could.... But should not. Take it as it comes for Yates, no sense in risking his confidence right out of the gate. Except that the first opponent is Atlanta...the one w/ the damaged secondary. You attack your enemy's weak points. If Kubiak goes run, run, pass (or run, run, run) all game, I guarantee a loss.

I'd throw a bomb on the first play in Atl. I wouldn't go completely mad scientist though. This offense is about ball control, consistent 4-7 yard gains and hoping eventually the opposing D just tires out or makes a big mistake.

If they plan on stacking safeties in the box though, I'd start throwing it deep to whoever they leave on an island. If I'm callin plays a win vs. Atl is NOT worth the health of Foster or Tate to me. I'm not calling for them to pound it into a brick wall 30 times just because Yates is inexperienced. Inexperience and suck are two completely different things. I would too, but I'd do it in Houston where the game is. :fingergun: I'm with ya on pounding it into a wall - if we can't pass to keep them honest, we're done.

tedr
12-01-2011, 09:18 AM
I'd throw a bomb on the first play in Atl. I wouldn't go completely mad scientist though. This offense is about ball control, consistent 4-7 yard gains and hoping eventually the opposing D just tires out or makes a big mistake.

If they plan on stacking safeties in the box though, I'd start throwing it deep to whoever they leave on an island. If I'm callin plays a win vs. Atl is NOT worth the health of Foster or Tate to me. I'm not calling for them to pound it into a brick wall 30 times just because Yates is inexperienced. Inexperience and suck are two completely different things.

I was thinking that same thing- fake a handoff to Foster, hopefully the safety will bite, and let Andre run past the corner. Even if it's incomplete, or intercepted,it will at least give the Falcons' D something else to think about.

Hervoyel
12-01-2011, 09:26 AM
I believe that Kubiak really has nothing to fear this year. He's not going to be fired even if we finish 8-8. I'm probably as harsh a critic as Gary Kubiak has and even I must concede that the injuries this season have been almost "old-testament plague" in nature. We are starting either a 5th round rookie or a QB who was so far down everyones list that he didn't have a job going into week 11 of the season.

If the can't get it done this year I can't rage over that.

Besides, I've seen them play some very good football this year. They look like the team I expected to show up 5-6 years ago. I'm happy. At this point I think Kubiak has a license to play this thing out however he wants. If he thinks that trying to cram the ball down other teams throats for 60 minutes is our only hope then he can feel free to try it. If he thinks Yates is ready to start slinging it around like the gunslinger we all hope he's capable of being then fine.

I'm happy. Do what you think is best Gary.

Big Lou
12-01-2011, 09:29 AM
Why are we going to "back" into the play-offs?

If we thought we had a chance to get into the play-offs & do something with Leinart, why can't we do something with Yates? At least, I think, let him play a game he's prepared for before we say he can't do it.

We weren't asking Leinart to set the league on fire. We felt if he could just "manage" the game & not try to prove he belongs in the league, we've got a shot at something special.

From what we've seen so far, I see no reason to believe we can't go forward with that "game manager" approach, or that Yates can't be that manager.

Odds are TJ isn't going to run this offense like Schaub, so we are essentially a team a peg or two down from where we were, so that's why I say we will end up backing in to the playoffs, versus kicking the door in as a force to be reckoned with.

I'm hoping TJ suprise everyone, which I'm still holding out hope that will happen. I say the end of the season will be TJ's tryout, and if its obvious he can't beat the first playoff team we face then maybe Kubiak should just go crazy.

I think all coaches in the NFL coach conservatively because of how fans react. Very few go big or go home because you get run out of town in a season or two. Name one coach that coaches like people play Madden. I'm not advocating go for it on 4th and 28, from your own 1 yard line stuff like people do in Madden, but I mean open it up.

Vinny
12-01-2011, 10:00 AM
Kubiak will put guys in positions they can win matchups. He does that no matter who is playing.

Trail.Blazr
12-01-2011, 11:06 AM
Why are we going to "back" into the play-offs?

If we thought we had a chance to get into the play-offs & do something with Leinart, why can't we do something with Yates? At least, I think, let him play a game he's prepared for before we say he can't do it.

We weren't asking Leinart to set the league on fire. We felt if he could just "manage" the game & not try to prove he belongs in the league, we've got a shot at something special.

From what we've seen so far, I see no reason to believe we can't go forward with that "game manager" approach, or that Yates can't be that manager.

I think the organization IS taking the approach of CAN. I hope so.
The fans are taking the approach of HOPE.

I don't think Big Lou is discounting the notion of trying to do something with Yates. I think he's just being realistic with the premonition of a less than desirable outcome. Something I find hard to do, as a fan with as much koolaid in my gut as the next fan.

Let's face it... Yate's has EVERYTHING going for him. Best D in this team's history. One of the better run games in the league. The only thing he doesn't have going for him is Experience in the NFL. Does that matter? While there are exceptions, such as Big Ben, or Joe Flacco, or even this year with Tebow and Cam Newton, it's a stretch to think a late round rookie, who's not a Heisman winner would come into a starting role during the last(brutal strech) 5 games of the season and have favorable odds of success... it's asking a lot. To Yate's good fortune... I don't see he has much choice. He's obviously going to be asked to. This organization would be a fool to do anything but play QB vs. designated handoff man. If they back into the playoffs, it won't be the run, run, pass, punt approach, it will be simply because Yates, despite his best, couldn't get it done.

To the OP, Kubes free to let it all hang out? Sure, but why would he? He didn't let it all hang out at any point this season. He's surely not going to shift to that with Yates now.

Kube's will likely keep the same formula he's had all season and do exactly as Vinny just eluded to.. play the match ups. I'll be surprised if Yates doesn't throw the ball at least 25 times against Atlanta. And TK.. if he does open with a BOMB, I hope its on Dunta :-)

thunderkyss
12-01-2011, 11:58 AM
I was thinking that same thing- fake a handoff to Foster, hopefully the safety will bite, and let Andre run past the corner. Even if it's incomplete, or intercepted,it will at least give the Falcons' D something else to think about.

That depends. If it was close.... yeah, they'll have to respect it.

If there was no chance in hell, they'll let you have it.

The Pencil Neck
12-01-2011, 12:04 PM
I believe we should play as if Yates were Schaub. We know he's not, but he's a QB. If Yates was not worthy of throwing the ball when the play calls for it, then no sense carrying a 2nd/3rd string roster slot.

To ignore the Yates factor, for a second, the smart play is still to take what the Defense will give. For Atlanta, with a stout run D and a VERY suspect 2ndary, IMHO, that says throw it.

Back to Yates. He's obviously the wild card. No way we want to ask the rookie in his first start to go all "Cam Newton". But, throughout the season, Schaub has not been asked to make 40 throws either. In Atlanta, if there's ever a game to ask Yates to step in and throw the pigskin around, this is the week.

Ultimately, the Texans' offense has been a balanced, play-action team all year and have had success. Keep that pot boiling if possible.

We can't play like Yates is Schaub. He doesn't know the playbook or have the offense at his fingertips like Schaub does.

We've got to identify those parts of the playbook that Yates does feel comfortably with AND make him comfortable with the parts of the playbook he's going to need to win this next game. Kubiak has to reduce his playcalling to only those things that Yates knows how to do and knows how to do well.

If he starts calling plays that Yates only kinda knows a little bit, he's going to fail.

thunderkyss
12-01-2011, 12:08 PM
Let's face it... Yate's has EVERYTHING going for him. Best D in this team's history. One of the better run games in the league. The only thing he doesn't have going for him is Experience in the NFL. Does that matter? While there are exceptions, such as Big Ben, or Joe Flacco, or even this year with Tebow and Cam Newton, it's a stretch to think a late round rookie, who's not a Heisman winner would come into a starting role during the last(brutal strech) 5 games of the season and have favorable odds of success... it's asking a lot.




I remember when we were 5-1 & saying we had the tough part of the schedule behind us. Now we're facing a "brutal" schedule?

Cam Newton isn't winning, Ben Rothlisburger didn't "lead" the Stealers as a rookie, & Joe Flacco hasn't done anything.

This is a team game & we've still got a lot of what makes this a great team, not a good team. We're missing the QB who's been in this system for a long time, I understand that. There are somethings that we are not going to be able to do with the rook, I get that.

But we aren't asking him to lead us to the play-offs. We're not even asking him to "steer" the car. All he has to do, is not derail the train.

Matt Leinart played an ultra conservative game last Sunday & we still scored 17 points on the 3rd rank defense in the league in less than a half. I think Yates can at least play to that level.

Trail.Blazr
12-01-2011, 12:51 PM
I remember when we were 5-1 & saying we had the tough part of the schedule behind us. Now we're facing a "brutal" schedule?
Brutal, meaning the last stretch of the season is tougher, not in terms of strength of schedule. Teams in general with over half of a season under their belt, typically play better than they did at the beginning. By now, even the bad teams will play better.


Cam Newton isn't winning, Ben Rothlisburger didn't "lead" the Stealers as a rookie, & Joe Flacco hasn't done anything.

That sort of bolsters my point. These were highly drafted rookies. Ben and Joe had success based on having great teams to "not lead", however those two were on teams that would impose their will on the line and run it down anyone's throat practically at will. We are a good run team, but in a different way. Cam is a winner, despite his Defense getting in the way, record be darned. The conflict to me is, they were all day 1 type guys. While it's ok to hope and wish similar success to TJ, it's a taller order. I'm just being sceptically objective.



But we aren't asking him to lead us to the play-offs. We're not even asking him to "steer" the car. All he has to do, is not derail the train.

By nature of the position, he HAS to at least steer. Otherwise it'll be more of a run, run, run, punt plan. errrrr Backing into the Playoffs.


Matt Leinart played an ultra conservative game last Sunday & we still scored 17 points on the 3rd rank defense in the league in less than a half. I think Yates can at least play to that level.

Based on what little we've seen, I 'think' he can too. Just trying to keep my thoughts/hopes in check with reality.

drs23
12-01-2011, 12:57 PM
Brutal, meaning the last stretch of the season is tougher, not in terms of strength of schedule. Teams in general with over half of a season under their belt, typically play better than they did at the beginning. By now, even the bad teams will play better.



That sort of bolsters my point. These were highly drafted rookies. Ben and Joe had success based on having great teams to "not lead", however those two were on teams that would impose their will on the line and run it down anyone's throat practically at will. We are a good run team, but in a different way. Cam is a winner, despite his Defense getting in the way, record be darned. The conflict to me is, they were all day 1 type guys. While it's ok to hope and wish similar success to TJ, it's a taller order. I'm just being sceptically objective.




By nature of the position, he HAS to at least steer. Otherwise it'll be more of a run, run, run, punt plan. errrrr Backing into the Playoffs.



Based on what little we've seen, I 'think' he can too. Just trying to keep my thoughts/hopes in check with reality.

Oh, c'mon. Let it all hang out! :)