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TexansFanatic
11-28-2011, 01:31 PM
He may be right. Leinart did look like the King of the Checkdown yesterday.


Texans better off with Yates, not Leinart; more Week 12 notes

Can things get any worse for the Houston Texans? First they lose Mario Williams, their best defensive player, for the season. That was followed by their All-Pro wide receiver, Andre Johnson, missing six games with a hamstring injury. Starting quarterback Matt Schaub went on the shelf after Week 10 with a season-ending foot injury and after last weekend's bye, backup QB Matt Leinart comes in Sunday and promptly goes down with a reported broken collarbone.

But don't cry for the Texans just yet. After all, they still beat the Jaguars to improve to 8-3. Losing Leinart is not hard to overcome, especially in this offense, and they even might be better off without him.

Watching Leinart play in the first half, it was clear "the King of the Check Down" was back to his old ways. Leinart refuses to drive the ball down the field, always taking the quick outlet instead of standing tall in the pocket to the last second and making the tough throw. He is nervous in the pocket and treats the ball like a hot potato, wanting to get rid of it as soon as he can. He loves completion percentage more than yards, which might look good on a stat sheet, but never helps a team win. I don't care what the Texans said he looked like in practice last week. In practice, it is easier to throw the ball down the field, largely because there is no risk at being hit. Once hitting the quarterback is a part of the game, then the King is going to revert back to his check downs.

In two quarters against the Jags, Leinart was 10 of 13 for 57 yards. He averaged 4.3 yards in his 13 attempts, which is the same as what the Houston running game normally averages per carry. Take away the 20-yard touchdown throw, which hung in the air for days, and Leinart was 9 of 12 for 37 yards, which is slightly better than three yards per attempt. If Leinart was going to do nothing more than throw the check down, then how can this injury be deemed so costly?

When rookie T.J. Yates came into the game, my first reaction was -- now that is a NFL passer. Yates came off the bench with little or no practice time and led the team down the field for a field goal to close out the half. The game did not look too big for Yates, nor did he look nervous under center. He looked like a player with excellent talent who, after a week of getting all the coaching, could execute the game plan as well, if not better, than Leinart. Yates might not have as much experience as Leinart, but was Leinart's experience really going to help him or the Texans? I strongly doubt it.

The Texans are in a bad spot, don't get me wrong, but it's the same one they were in when Schaub first went down -- they must win with their defense, their run game and their special teams. Losing Leinart does not change things; in fact, it makes things clearer. With Leinart in the game, there would be a belief that he could handle certain things because he was a high pick and has started NFL games. In reality, as was the case Sunday, Leinart cannot handle or properly execute the whole Texans offense. Leinart would have provided false hope, which is not what the Texans need right now.

In head coach Gary Kubiak's QB-friendly offense, Yates will not be asked to carry the load, but just make a few throws down the field. Having been a four-year starter in college at North Carolina, in a pro-style system, Yates can handle the volume of offense each week and will not be overwhelmed. The burden of scoring will fall on the run game and the play-making ability of Andre Johnson, who will benefit more with Yates in the game. Trust me, today the Texans are no different offensively than they were last Monday. I'd argue they are better off.

It's a tough break for Leinart to get injured as he was trying to rebuild his career, and I do feel badly for him. Maybe he was going to prove my evaluation of him wrong by driving the ball down the field, standing tall in the pocket and making all the tough throws. Maybe he did change his style of play and he was just getting warmed up in the Jaguars game. But with this injury, we will never know.

Now Yates will be the man responsible to lead the Texans to their first playoff appearance. But as it was before the injury to Leinart, the Texans' playoff fortunes will continue to lie with their ability to run the ball and make plays with their defense. And I believe they can get it done. So today is not a day for Texans fans to cry; it is a day to just keep moving forward because good things still can happen.

LINK (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8248b952/article/texans-better-off-with-yates-not-leinart-more-week-12-notes?module=HP11_cp)

TexansFanatic
11-28-2011, 01:35 PM
Watch the video of the ESPN roundtable on that linked page.

Both Mooch and Deion said they'd call Jeff Garcia....

Marcus
11-28-2011, 01:37 PM
I agree with Mike Lombardi's assessment.

I think we're going to do just fine with Yates at QB. In fact, I think Yates will have legitimate shot at being the #1 QB next season, EVEN IF Schaub makes a full recovery in time for TC next season, which I very much doubt.

ObsiWan
11-28-2011, 01:40 PM
As much as I hate to agree with ol' Sta-Puff, he may have a point. Leinart threw two medium length passes today. One to AJ that got called back and the other to Dreessen for six. You could see him look down field once then immediately start looking for the checkdown outlet.

I'd love to see the All-22 video so I could see what coverage Jacksonville played.

Norg
11-28-2011, 01:41 PM
well yates is younger and more mobile hes got that going 4 him ...... : P

Dread-Head
11-28-2011, 01:41 PM
:headhurts: so ...:thinking: "Snap...Crackle...'F'-him?"

Playoffs
11-28-2011, 01:42 PM
Booo!

Kicking a man when he's down is chickensh!t.

Dread-Head
11-28-2011, 01:42 PM
Watch the video of the ESPN roundtable on that linked page.

Both Mooch and Deion said they'd call Jeff Garcia....

Okay...I'm having trouble with your avitar pic...is that Barry Goldwater or Thurgood Marshall? I honestly can't tell...

TexansFanatic
11-28-2011, 01:46 PM
Okay...I'm having trouble with your avitar pic...is that Barry Goldwater or Thurgood Marshall? I honestly can't tell...

lmao!!!

I've never had anyone guess Thurgood Marshall but I suppose it's not that outlandish.

It's Goldwater.

Texecutioner
11-28-2011, 01:48 PM
I'm not buying that for a second. Laeinart looked alright yesterday and threw a really nice TD pass and had some momentum going for him. He is waaaayy better than Yates on paper. Yates couldn't get anything going on offense yesterday at all and with him in there I think this offense is going to be extremely more limited. Kubiak isn't going to trust him either.

LikeMike
11-28-2011, 01:49 PM
The thing with Yates: he is a rookie project that will do rookie mistakes. That doesn`t mean he`s not gonna be a good QB, but almost every rookie makes mistakes.

I am excited for Yates. He did look good on that one drive - the rest of the game he was basically handcuffed by Kubiak (which I would`ve done exactly the same - let the running game and the defense finish this off).

But only with a full week of practice as the #1QB and a full playbook will we know, if we are totally screwed or just kinda screwed. Itīs totally ok to lose the Falcons game - but I at least want to see some promise.

ObsiWan
11-28-2011, 01:51 PM
Okay...I'm having trouble with your avitar pic...is that Barry Goldwater or Thurgood Marshall? I honestly can't tell...

That's Goldwater.

Thurgood wasn't THAT lightskinned.
http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/122/images/marshall2.gif

TexansFanatic
11-28-2011, 01:52 PM
That's Goldwater.

Thurgood wasn't THAT lightskinned.
http://chnm.gmu.edu/courses/122/images/marshall2.gif

Not too far off though, now that I really look at the two pics. Funny.

Texans34Life
11-28-2011, 01:56 PM
I saw more confidence out of Yates than pretty boy Leinart. I think Kubiak was hesitant to take off the muzzle and let Yates take risks down the field.

80tothezone
11-28-2011, 02:05 PM
I'm not buying that for a second. Laeinart looked alright yesterday and threw a really nice TD pass and had some momentum going for him. He is waaaayy better than Yates on paper. Yates couldn't get anything going on offense yesterday at all and with him in there I think this offense is going to be extremely more limited. Kubiak isn't going to trust him either.

actually Kubes talked about it saying that he ran very vanilla that game due to Y8s not being in the offense etc. I think we see how he does against Atlanta. rly our only option at this point... If there was a An available u might be ably to get him up to speed in time for Indy but I just don't see any options as a starter .... throw the rookie into the fire and see if he melts or tempers.

CloakNNNdagger
11-28-2011, 02:06 PM
Thought this was interesting.

Here’s a breakdown of AFC South quarterbacking Sunday, with QBR (and rank for the day) as well as passer rating.

Week 12 AFC South QBR
Quarterback QBR (Rank) Passer Rating
Matt Leinart 60.9 (9) 110.1
Matt Hasselbeck 26.2 (23) 53.6
T.J. Yates 12.9 (28) 66.0
Curtis Painter 8.4 (30) 60.4
Blaine Gabbert 7.5 (31) 44.6
Luke McCown DNQ 78.6

Passer rating maxes out at 158.3; QBR goes to 100.

SteveSlaton20
11-28-2011, 02:08 PM
Y'all are crazy if y'all think Yates will/would outplay Leinart...I know he was Mr. Checkdown all day yesterday, but Yates was just as worst, if not worse...

That said...Bring in the Copter!

Double Barrel
11-28-2011, 02:09 PM
I agree with Mike Lombardi's assessment.

I think we're going to do just fine with Yates at QB. In fact, I think Yates will have legitimate shot at being the #1 QB next season, EVEN IF Schaub makes a full recovery in time for TC next season, which I very much doubt.

I agree. I think Lombardi had a great point in having unrealistic expectations with Leinart due to his previous experience than you would for Yates. With Yates, we know what we have: a rookie QB.

I think Yates did alright for a guy off the bench and thrown to the wolves. He drove the offense in a two minute drill to put points on the board. And that throw to AJ in quadruple coverage was impressive. I did not see Leinart even try to make that throw.

A couple of after game things made me think positive about Yates. First was AJ's comments about having confidence in him and they were workout partners during AJ's rehab. He's caught some balls from Yates, and I've got to trust our no. 1 WR when it's Andre Johnson.

The second was Bob Allen's interview with Yates on the Texans show. Yates was very cool and calm during the interview, and he said that the offense they ran in college was based on the Texans offense. So he's got some experience in running this style. While it's certainly not pro football experience, it's not like we're taking an option or spread QB from college to run this offense.

GP
11-28-2011, 02:24 PM
Lombardi:

"I'm not talking shit here, believe me, but Leinart sucked and you're better off without him. I feel bad that he was hurt, but he is the Checkdown King and doesn't know or care enough, or have the skills, to be a good QB anyways. So, in conclusion: 1.) He sucks. 2.) I'm not trying to be a dick about it. C.) Texans fans shouldn't cry."

Does this guy have a friend? He's the guy who prefaces everything he says to somebody with "No offense here, but...." As if saying "No offense" nullifies your ability to get pissed off at what he says to you. Anybody have a friend like that? You know: The guy who pisses you off all the time, and when you snap on him he comes back at you with "I was just kidding, man! Geez."

LOL.

Leinart did not win the hearts of the football Gods vs. Jax, pure and simple. If you do not appease the Gods, you shall not remain. TJ Yates better be a spiritual man, and he better have a pure and clean spirit next Sunday.

beerlover
11-28-2011, 02:25 PM
It is what it is. move forward with Yates no looking back, I mean is there anything the Texans could have done differently? Keep Grossman instead of moving on with Leinart? Or draft Mallet instead of trading up in the second to grab highly graded CB Brandon Harris.

After this season is finished & the staff does it internal team reviews & player assessments, Rick Smith may deceide to focus more on 2012 QB draft & free agent class. Until then its TJ Yates & Kellen Clemons bottom line.

thunderkyss
11-28-2011, 02:43 PM
He may be right. Leinart did look like the King of the Checkdown yesterday.


He makes some good points. & I initially thought the same thing when Yates came in the game.

But without coaches film, it's too hard to tell watching a game on tv if there was anything else available. I'd like to think there was, but we don't know.

Leinart also went down before the 2 minute warning, we don't know how he would have reacted in the same situation. I'm sure Matt was instructed all week long to trust Foster & don't force anything. Yates probably didn't get that same speech.

I mean the second half, Yates looked as bad if not worse than Leinart in the first half. Heck, Leinart didn't just get us close to scoring a TD, he actually threw one. Yeah, it floated, but he stood his ground & got pummeled as he threw the ball.

Just like we wanted to see.

He makes some strong points for Yates... & I do agree with those.


I have to.

Porky
11-28-2011, 02:54 PM
I agree with Mike Lombardi's assessment.

I think we're going to do just fine with Yates at QB. In fact, I think Yates will have legitimate shot at being the #1 QB next season, EVEN IF Schaub makes a full recovery in time for TC next season, which I very much doubt.

I didn't realize crack came in an extra large economy size. :thinking:

Ryan
11-28-2011, 02:59 PM
Yates looked great in that two minute drill, but no one understands that Kubiak basically shut the offense down in the 2nd half because Yates was their only healthy and active quarterback!

He'll open things up alot more next week and i think people will be shocked with Yates.

Hervoyel
11-28-2011, 03:08 PM
Booo!

Kicking a man when he's down is chickensh!t.


I agree. Another talking head who can tell you exactly what would have happened if Leinart hadn't been hurt. Then he wraps it up with the easy-out of "Maybe he was going to prove me wrong" so he isn't locked into a position completely.

I thought Leinart's start was promising and that his reliance on mostly the short game had more to do with the Texans taking things slowly to help him knock the rust off.

Moot point now. It's Yates or bust so we'll all get on the TJ Yates bandwagon as we should. I notice he's already beating out Schaub for the starters position next season in some minds though.

Just as with Leinart beating Schaub out for the job I say "It would be a nice problem to have wouldn't it?".

I will say those NC-LSU highlights of Yates are very promising. I don't see the supposed lack of arm strength there. He hit a guy in stride at 50 yards. That's enough to get it done.

GP
11-28-2011, 03:14 PM
We had two weeks to play imaginary games in our heads about how Leinart would come alive and we'd go on this incredible run with a storybook ending for a QB who just needed one more crack at the gig.

And DOWN GOES LEINART!

I really wonder what the psyche of ANY Texans QB can be after seeing Schaub get hurt in one game and Leinart get hurt the very next game before the half was even over yet!

It's like staring at the roulette wheel, looking at the board, and thinking "It can't continue to hit red. It's been red 12 times in a row. I'm betting black." And WHAMMO! it hits red. Then you bet red and it hits black.

This is the major problem facing the Texans: They're running out of QBs, and Kubiak has got to threaten testicular castration of every one of his offensive linemen if they let TJ Yates get dusted up on the field.

I think we'll see a lot of holding calls on our offensive line now. I have a feeling if the o-lineman thinks he might get beaten and get Yates hurt..he's going to grab the rusher's jersey and try to keep Yates upright.

EllisUnit
11-28-2011, 03:27 PM
I'm not buying that for a second. Laeinart looked alright yesterday and threw a really nice TD pass and had some momentum going for him. He is waaaayy better than Yates on paper. Yates couldn't get anything going on offense yesterday at all and with him in there I think this offense is going to be extremely more limited. Kubiak isn't going to trust him either.

seriously, in the 2 minute drill he looked damn good, and he was in a no win situation, you come out and run it on first and 2nd and then you HAVE to throw it on 3rd and long, what do you expect. Let him practice and get into a rythm with the WRs and TEs and the boy will be just fine.

kiwitexansfan
11-28-2011, 03:44 PM
I didn't read the post, it lost all credibility for me when he said Mario Williams was our best defensive player.

:sarcarsm:

FWIW, I don't buy the better off with Yates thing but time will tell if Yates can get us anywhere.

Ryan
11-28-2011, 03:52 PM
I didn't read the post, it lost all credibility for me when he said Mario Williams was our best defensive player.

:sarcarsm:

FWIW, I don't buy the better off with Yates thing but time will tell if Yates can get us anywhere.


EDIT: nvm, just saw your sarcasm. :vincepalm:

Kthx
11-28-2011, 03:56 PM
Well my impression of Leinart was that he just doesn't want to be a f'in QB in the NFL after deciding to sit around on the Texans and not play. And of course today he goes out today and plays like he doesn't really want to play and then gets hurt. I would sorta agree, I don't like Leinart because of what I already said even though I sure as hell was rooting for him to do well.

HJam72
11-28-2011, 04:03 PM
Well my impression of Leinart was that he just doesn't want to be a f'in QB in the NFL after deciding to sit around on the Texans and not play. And of course today he goes out today and plays like he doesn't really want to play and then gets hurt. I would sorta agree, I don't like Leinart because of what I already said even though I sure as hell was rooting for him to do well.

K, thnx. :cool:

Honoring Earl 34
11-28-2011, 04:15 PM
I think a QB has got it or he doesn't when it comes to taking a hit in the pocket . I think it's better for a young QB to throw ints trying to squeeze the ball into a tight space as opposed to just heaving it or dump it off . If he throw ints at least he's trying to get it down field and is hanging in there .

Matt L bails really quick like the old #8 . TJ ... the jury is out but the first hurdle is being more concerned with completing the pass than getting popped . He looked the part and I'm luke warm optimistic .

Marcus
11-28-2011, 04:33 PM
The second was Bob Allen's interview with Yates on the Texans show. Yates was very cool and calm during the interview, and he said that the offense they ran in college was based on the Texans offense. So he's got some experience in running this style. While it's certainly not pro football experience, it's not like we're taking an option or spread QB from college to run this offense.

I was impressed with the interview, too. Allen commented later, "I almost had to wake him up!"

That tells me that things don't phase him much. And you could see a quiet confidence about him. I really do think he will do well.

MEGA SWATT
11-28-2011, 04:34 PM
lmao!!!

I've never had anyone guess Thurgood Marshall but I suppose it's not that outlandish.

It's Goldwater.

Drew Carey's dad imo.


OP, too bad ML won't have a chance to prove him wrong this season. He sounds like a hater. I just don't see Yates taking us very far at all. I hope I'm completely wrong though.

Insideop
11-28-2011, 04:36 PM
I was thinking :thinking: what happens next year if Yates does really well the rest of the way? Does Leinart come back as the #2 or #3? Or did he sign a one year deal? If he only signed a 1 year deal we may not bring him back if Yates looks good the rest of this season. Anyone know how long he signed for?

HJam72
11-28-2011, 04:36 PM
I dunno if he's right or not, but that Lombardi's just an a-hole, ain't he? I mean why do you have to say something like that(?) when Leinart's probly about ready to do this: :choke:

Hervoyel
11-28-2011, 04:42 PM
I was thinking :thinking: what happens next year if Yates does really well the rest of the way? Does Leinart come back as the #2 or #3? Or did he sign a one year deal? If he only signed a 1 year deal we may not bring him back if Yates looks good the rest of this season. Anyone know how long he signed for?


He's signed for next year too.

I think that getting hurt the exact same way he did in 2007 might have raised the "fragile" flag on Leinart which is going to put a few more nails in the coffin his career is currently trapped inside. He had enough doubters and critics as things were. Add the dreaded "f" word to all that and we might have just seen the moment where Leinart truly did become a career backup.

TexanSam
11-28-2011, 04:44 PM
Yates looked great in that two minute drill, but no one understands that Kubiak basically shut the offense down in the 2nd half because Yates was their only healthy and active quarterback!

He'll open things up alot more next week and i think people will be shocked with Yates.

I agree with you, at least with the first part. Kubiak went very conservative for a reason. He didn't want Yates to risk being injured by staying in the pocket too long and getting hit. He had to count on the running game and D to hold onto the win.

After a week of reps and coaching, I think Yates will be allowed to pass the ball more beyond the 3 yard slants he had yesterday.

thunderkyss
11-28-2011, 04:45 PM
I dunno if he's right or not, but that Lombardi's just an a-hole, ain't he? I mean why do you have to say something like that(?) when Leinart's probly about ready to do this: :choke:

Agreed. I thought Leinart played the game we wanted him to play. His first game in 30 years..... Don't get me wrong, I was thrilled to see Yates come out ballin, but for the last two weeks we said Leinart needs to manage the game & he did.

We don't know how Gary would have called the 2 minute offense & we don't know what Matt would have done in that situation.

But, I feel for Leinart. He did exactly what we wanted him to do & this happens to him.

Pantherstang84
11-28-2011, 04:47 PM
I hope the kid is a fast learner. I don't think he will have the whole playbook this week. He will have more than he did yesterday though.

ziggy29
11-28-2011, 05:02 PM
I saw more confidence out of Yates than pretty boy Leinart. I think Kubiak was hesitant to take off the muzzle and let Yates take risks down the field.
Justifiable yesterday under the circumstances. You have to let him open it up next Sunday, or else the Atlanta defense will overload the box and stuff the run, and the Texans defense will be dead tired by the fourth quarter.

But given the circumstances and not having a "backup" beyond OD, yeah, you had to minimize risk there in the second half, especially since Jax has a putrid offense. I would have preferred seeing a little more risk, but we got out with a win.

JVL713
11-28-2011, 05:22 PM
Ironic there was a Brett Favre Wrangler Jeans Ad before the video played :P
*dont want Favre, btw*

I agree though, Yates looked amazing that first drive before he was restricted in the second half. Yes, he missed some throws in the second half, but hopefully with more reps with the first team we will see more of the first half Yates.

Maybe it's just me, but it's refreshing watching a mobile quarterback throw with velocity, not used to seeing much of that around here.

GuerillaBlack
11-28-2011, 05:27 PM
I hope the kid is a fast learner. I don't think he will have the whole playbook this week. He will have more than he did yesterday though.

Apparently he is a very fast learner. Schaub said it himself. Doesn't hurt that the offense he ran in college was a slight copy of the Texans offense.

redwhiteANDblue
11-28-2011, 05:32 PM
Ironic there was a Brett Favre Wrangler Jeans Ad before the video played :P
*dont want Favre, btw*

I agree though, Yates looked amazing that first drive before he was restricted in the second half. Yes, he missed some throws in the second half, but hopefully with more reps with the first team we will see more of the first half Yates.

Maybe it's just me, but it's refreshing watching a mobile quarterback throw with velocity, not used to seeing much of that around here.

Yeah same with me. I hadn't seen someone zip it like TJ did in awhile here. Also the thought of a qb scrambling to get 5 yard was just uncomprehendable by me.

Crazy. Just crazy

ziggy29
11-28-2011, 05:36 PM
Yeah same with me. I hadn't seen someone zip it like TJ did in awhile here. Also the thought of a qb scrambling to get 5 yard was just uncomprehendable by me.

Almost as incomprehensible as the comment in the game thread about that 5 yard scramble where someone equated his decision to slide (as the last healthy QB on the sidelines) with a certain nether region of the female anatomy. Under the circumstances he would have been a fool to take the hit, and I suspect he was under orders to slide even if it means not getting a first down there.

Rozelle
11-28-2011, 05:44 PM
We may very well be better off with Yates. Still have to bring in another vet.
I agree... forget Farve, but I think I would guage Kurt Warner's interest. He may be under contract with Arizona. Be nice to have a seasoned vet onboard with some playoff experience.

drs23
11-28-2011, 05:52 PM
Drew Carey's dad imo.


OP, too bad ML won't have a chance to prove him wrong this season. He sounds like a hater. I just don't see Yates taking us very far at all. I hope I'm completely wrong though.

As do I. I agree with numerous posters in other threads in that I believe Yates is gonna surprise some folks. He ran this offense for 4 years @ UNC. Heck, Gary was sending him/them game film. I may be really nieve, but I don't think so.

TJ Yates is going to surpise some people with his play. As others have stated in other threads, he just seems to have "it". He looked comfortable out there to me.

I don't think he's scaird of Atlanta. C'mon Sunday!

Double Barrel
11-28-2011, 05:55 PM
He's from Atlanta, too! The Falcons were his team as a kid, so ironic that his first NFL start will be against them.

Ryan
11-28-2011, 06:04 PM
We may very well be better off with Yates. Still have to bring in another vet.
I agree... forget Farve, but I think I would guage Kurt Warner's interest. He may be under contract with Arizona. Be nice to have a seasoned vet onboard with some playoff experience.


Join us in 2011.

Pantherstang84
11-28-2011, 06:05 PM
We may very well be better off with Yates. Still have to bring in another vet.
I agree... forget Farve, but I think I would guage Kurt Warner's interest. He may be under contract with Arizona. Be nice to have a seasoned vet onboard with some playoff experience.

I think Warner likes his NFL Network gig too much.

GP
11-28-2011, 06:46 PM
I agree with you, at least with the first part. Kubiak went very conservative for a reason. He didn't want Yates to risk being injured by staying in the pocket too long and getting hit. He had to count on the running game and D to hold onto the win.

After a week of reps and coaching, I think Yates will be allowed to pass the ball more beyond the 3 yard slants he had yesterday.

I saw no slants, Sam. Zero.

I kept looking for a 3-step slant all game long and never got one.

After the Dreessen TD, I think maybe two passes were ever thrown in the direction of a WR/TE. 98% of pass plays were immediate QB-to-RB pass plays of some variation.

If Derrick Mason is still on this team, I think he's the perfect target for a 3-step slant. Reliable hands, tough as nails, and fast.

Texan_Bill
11-28-2011, 07:04 PM
I saw no slants, Sam. Zero.

I kept looking for a 3-step slant all game long and never got one.

After the Dreessen TD, I think maybe two passes were ever thrown in the direction of a WR/TE. 98% of pass plays were immediate QB-to-RB pass plays of some variation.

If Derrick Mason is still on this team, I think he's the perfect target for a 3-step slant. Reliable hands, tough as nails, and fast.

Very first pass was more like a 5 step drop, but from under center and it was a quick hitter to OD.

TexanSam
11-28-2011, 07:06 PM
I saw no slants, Sam. Zero.

I kept looking for a 3-step slant all game long and never got one.

After the Dreessen TD, I think maybe two passes were ever thrown in the direction of a WR/TE. 98% of pass plays were immediate QB-to-RB pass plays of some variation.

If Derrick Mason is still on this team, I think he's the perfect target for a 3-step slant. Reliable hands, tough as nails, and fast.

Ok, I shouldn't have said slants. What I meant was little dink and dunk passes. Slants was just the first thing that came into my mind when I was thinking of those.

GP
11-28-2011, 07:53 PM
Very first pass was more like a 5 step drop, but from under center and it was a quick hitter to OD.

I think it was more of a deeper crossing pattern than a true slant.

I'm talking about the WR taking basically two steps, planting a foot and breaking HARD to the middle...and the QB is throwing the ball when he hits the 3rd step of the 3-step drop. While not an earth-shattering play, it gets the ball into the hands of the WR, out of the hands of the QB, and the pass rush is useless.

We've got to have the shallow stuff like that, then the bootleg and corresponding TE routes that we love to use on defenses, and the run game just makes it all a complete success. At that point, if our QB can recognize and execute the plays given to him...we're good to go, IMO.

2slik4u
11-28-2011, 08:03 PM
As sadistic as it may seem, is anyone else kind of excited to see what life after Schaub looks like?

I mean, who knows, Yates could be our next QB for the next decade. We really have no idea. The only thing we do know is we are forced into this and it really could be an exciting next few weeks if TJ turns out to be our next star QB.

I know, I know.....wishful thinking but who knows. Anything could happen.

All I know is as of this point, TJ could be the next Tom Brady....or the next David Carr. We will have a much better grasp after next weeks game.

BeerTastesLikeVictory
11-28-2011, 08:13 PM
As sadistic as it may seem, is anyone else kind of excited to see what life after Schaub looks like?

I mean, who knows, Yates could be our next QB for the next decade. We really have no idea. The only thing we do know is we are forced into this and it really could be an exciting next few weeks if TJ turns out to be our next star QB.

I know, I know.....wishful thinking but who knows. Anything could happen.

All I know is as of this point, TJ could be the next Tom Brady....or the next David Carr. We will have a much better grasp after next weeks game.

If we had already clinched the division, then yeah I'd love to see the kid work. In this situation I'm mostly nervous.

2slik4u
11-28-2011, 08:17 PM
If we had already clinched the division, then yeah I'd love to see the kid work. In this situation I'm mostly nervous.

Well sure, of course you're nervous. As am I. But what choice do we have? Either kill ourselves with nervousness or get excited with the possibility that we are watching our future start next week.

Just saying, it helps with copious amounts of whiskey, too.

:drunk:

TexansFanatic
11-28-2011, 08:22 PM
As sadistic as it may seem, is anyone else kind of excited to see what life after Schaub looks like?

I mean, who knows, Yates could be our next QB for the next decade. We really have no idea. The only thing we do know is we are forced into this and it really could be an exciting next few weeks if TJ turns out to be our next star QB.

I know, I know.....wishful thinking but who knows. Anything could happen.

All I know is as of this point, TJ could be the next Tom Brady....or the next David Carr. We will have a much better grasp after next weeks game.

Yes, I'm excited. I'm thinking this could work out really well.

Since it's very unusual for me to think that way, I'm even more excited.

burro
11-28-2011, 08:27 PM
Lombardi is a classless blowhard. This piece would be distasteful if Leinart had bombed up until his injury, but the fact that Leinart managed to make plays and score points makes the piece a work of idiocy as well. Leinart did well and we will feel the loss, unless T.J. Yates proves to be some sort of Tom Brady redux.

2slik4u
11-28-2011, 08:35 PM
Lombardi is a classless blowhard. This piece would be distasteful if Leinart had bombed up until his injury, but the fact that Leinart managed to make plays and score points makes the piece a work of idiocy as well. Leinart did well and we will feel the loss, unless T.J. Yates proves to be some sort of Tom Brady redux.

Was I the only one that wasn't "blown away" by Leinart? I know Kubiak didn't ask him to do much but the numbers dont lie.

Im not saying TJ completely showed him up, Im just saying Leinart didn't do anything Cleo Lemon couldn't have done.

Check down. Check down. Check down.

I know, thats all that was expected of him and he executed that game plan but saying that he did great when he didnt do much at all is a bit of an overstatement.

Houston_Fanatic
11-28-2011, 08:49 PM
Was I the only one that wasn't "blown away" by Leinart? I know Kubiak didn't ask him to do much but the numbers dont lie.

Im not saying TJ completely showed him up, Im just saying Leinart didn't do anything Cleo Lemon couldn't have done.

Check down. Check down. Check down.

I know, thats all that was expected of him and he executed that game plan but saying that he did great when he didnt do much at all is a bit of an overstatement.

He reminded me of HWSNBN. When the announcers kept saying what a great game he was having I was wondering if they were watching the same game.

I thought Yates looked more confident and his passes crisper. I just hope he can hang in there and keep his composure and let the running game and defense win for us. He will have to go downfield for the running game to work.

We sure missed Vickers on Sunday........ I don't think it was all on the Jags defense that we struggled in the running game. I love what Casey brings to the game but we need Vickers healthy, too. Anybody know when we might get him back?

Texan_Bill
11-28-2011, 09:02 PM
The next time Lombardi is correct about something, will be the first time!!!


Let's hope this is it!!!

disaacks3
11-28-2011, 09:14 PM
Y'all are crazy if y'all think Yates will/would outplay Leinart...I know he was Mr. Checkdown all day yesterday, but Yates was just as worst, if not worse...

That said...Bring in the Copter! Leinart has already failed as an NFL starter once....Yates has a litle over a half under his belt. You're ready to call the battle OVER? Rosenfels is under contract to Miami.

As sadistic as it may seem, is anyone else kind of excited to see what life after Schaub looks like?

I mean, who knows, Yates could be our next QB for the next decade. We really have no idea. The only thing we do know is we are forced into this and it really could be an exciting next few weeks if TJ turns out to be our next star QB.

I know, I know.....wishful thinking but who knows. Anything could happen.

All I know is as of this point, TJ could be the next Tom Brady....or the next David Carr. We will have a much better grasp after next weeks game. Well, for better for worse we get to find out what we've got.

fiasco west
11-28-2011, 09:20 PM
If this is true then it is bad news for Yates.

If he goes out there and tears it up against the Falcons or even just makes decent passes and makes the pass game respectable...then he'll go out the next game with a season ending injury. Someone really does not want us to make the playoffs...

Carr Bombed
11-28-2011, 10:12 PM
I'm not buying that for a second. Laeinart looked alright yesterday and threw a really nice TD pass and had some momentum going for him. He is waaaayy better than Yates on paper. Yates couldn't get anything going on offense yesterday at all and with him in there I think this offense is going to be extremely more limited. Kubiak isn't going to trust him either.

Leinart played like crap when he was in there... The passes he was completing reminded me of the passes that David Carr was completing when he tied a NFL record for most consecutive completed passes. They were nothing special and they weren't moving us down the field. The only reason why Houston scored points with Leinart in the game was because of 3 huge plays.. Arian's big run, J.J.'s big return, and (the other) J.J.'s big interception return. We manufactured points. Leinart didn't look "alright"...he looked like a 1st round bust.

Yates was impressive when he came in and then he had the cuffs put on him in the second half. Kubiak even admitted as much during his weekly radio show. He said they protected Yates, because the Jags weren't moving the ball against our defense and there were no other available quarterbacks behind Yates. He admitted he was content with letting the defense win the game. They kept things really simple and didn't want to expose Yates to the defense where he could take hits...which is why you never saw any naked boots with him in the game. They protected him. Relax though, because Gary Kubiak freely admitted they won't be able to do that against Atlanta and they're going to "open it up". Even when he was asked if they were going to bring Yates along slowly, Kubiak said they don't have that luxury and Yates is going to have to handle the playbook.

Also even if Kubiak doesn't "trust him as much", it won't matter, because even with his trust Leinart was hand cuffing himself and can't throw down field. When Leinart was in the game and we were running our boots, he would still look to dump the ball off...that's not how our offense is supposed to work. Our boots are designed to create big plays down the field (not just dump the ball off to a RB), Matt Leinart does NOT have this ability. With less completions Yates had more yards and Andre actually had catches with him in the game. I also didn't like how Leinart's pases were nothing, but floaters.. He had no velocity on the ball, he completed 10 of 13 passes, but it should've been 11 of 13 passes... one should've been a pick 6 which would've put this team down 14-0.

Sorry, but I'll take the guy who has some balls and can throw the ball down the field, regardless of how inexperienced he is...especially when the alternative is Matt Leinart. I can't stand Mike Lombardi, but he hit the nail on the head this time.

bckey
11-29-2011, 12:12 AM
This is one of the few times I can say I actually agree with Mike Lombardi. I will be at the Atlanta game to see TJ in action and to boo Dunta.

HJam72
11-29-2011, 08:07 AM
Leinart played like crap when he was in there... The passes he was completing reminded me of the passes that David Carr was completing when he tied a NFL record for most consecutive completed passes. They were nothing special and they weren't moving us down the field. The only reason why Houston scored points with Leinart in the game was because of 3 huge plays.. Arian's big run, J.J.'s big return, and (the other) J.J.'s big interception return. We manufactured points. Leinart didn't look "alright"...he looked like a 1st round bust.

Yates was impressive when he came in and then he had the cuffs put on him in the second half. Kubiak even admitted as much during his weekly radio show. He said they protected Yates, because the Jags weren't moving the ball against our defense and there were no other available quarterbacks behind Yates. He admitted he was content with letting the defense win the game. They kept things really simple and didn't want to expose Yates to the defense where he could take hits...which is why you never saw any naked boots with him in the game. They protected him. Relax though, because Gary Kubiak freely admitted they won't be able to do that against Atlanta and they're going to "open it up". Even when he was asked if they were going to bring Yates along slowly, Kubiak said they don't have that luxury and Yates is going to have to handle the playbook.

Also even if Kubiak doesn't "trust him as much", it won't matter, because even with his trust Leinart was hand cuffing himself and can't throw down field. When Leinart was in the game and we were running our boots, he would still look to dump the ball off...that's not how our offense is supposed to work. Our boots are designed to create big plays down the field (not just dump the ball off to a RB), Matt Leinart does NOT have this ability. In considerably less completions Yates had more yards and Andre actually had catches with him in the game. I also didn't like how Leinart's pases were nothing, but floaters.. He had no velocity on the ball, he completed 10 of 13 passes, but it should've been 11 of 13 passes... one should've been a pick 6 which would've put this team down 14-0.

Sorry, but I'll take the guy who has some balls and can throw the ball down the field, regardless of how inexperienced he is...especially when the alternative is Matt Leinart. I can't stand Mike Lombardi, but he hit the nail on the head this time.

I think I agree with this, but there's 2 things:

1) I don't blame Kubiak for dialing it down in that one half, because of Yates coming in unexpectedly and Jags bad O, etc.

2) I still say, he may be right, but he's an a-hole for putting Leinart down right now. He could have just said something like, "Yates may be alright." Leinart made all the right decisions and showed maturity coming hear to learn under Kubiak, being patient, etc. Maybe his game will never be worth a darn, and maybe he's even injury prone of top of it, but he deserves some respect for that. Frankly, I kind of hope they cut him based on what I saw of his game, but I respect him for trying to do things the right way.

Hervoyel
11-29-2011, 08:44 AM
As sadistic as it may seem, is anyone else kind of excited to see what life after Schaub looks like?

I mean, who knows, Yates could be our next QB for the next decade. We really have no idea. The only thing we do know is we are forced into this and it really could be an exciting next few weeks if TJ turns out to be our next star QB.

I know, I know.....wishful thinking but who knows. Anything could happen.

All I know is as of this point, TJ could be the next Tom Brady....or the next David Carr. We will have a much better grasp after next weeks game.


I think that the past 5 years have been slow but steady improvement, at times standing still completely, others just little baby steps. In short "monotonous". This season has been wonderful for the most part and even when we're watching another player go down followed by another reserve stepping up and getting it done it's at least eventful.

"Anything could happen" is nothing short of amazing to Texans fans who have watched them wallow around .500 for half a decade.

HJam72
11-29-2011, 08:46 AM
I think that the past 5 years have been slow but steady improvement, at times standing still completely, others just little baby steps. In short "monotonous". This season has been wonderful for the most part and even when we're watching another player go down followed by another reserve stepping up and getting it done it's at least eventful.

"Anything could happen" is nothing short of amazing to Texans fans who have watched them wallow around .500 for half a decade.

The big picture. :tiphat:

Playoffs
11-29-2011, 08:56 AM
I will be at the Atlanta game to see TJ in action and to boo Dunta.Be sure to yell Pay me Rick! when AJ scores on top of Dumbta.

DexmanC
11-29-2011, 09:50 AM
I'm not buying that for a second. Laeinart looked alright yesterday and threw a really nice TD pass and had some momentum going for him. He is waaaayy better than Yates on paper. Yates couldn't get anything going on offense yesterday at all and with him in there I think this offense is going to be extremely more limited. Kubiak isn't going to trust him either.

Yates looked alright at the end of the first half, while he was attempting
to move the offense with zero starters reps in practice. I'm sure his
second half performance could be attributed to Kubiak handing the game over to the
defense.

Yates looked very comfortable under center when he came into the game,
and I'm sure a week of starters' reps will allow him to operate this offense
just fine.

ziggy29
11-29-2011, 09:58 AM
Yates looked alright at the end of the first half, while he was attempting
to move the offense with zero starters reps in practice. I'm sure his
second half performance could be attributed to Kubiak handing the game over to the
defense.


Oh, I'm fairly sure of it. It was pretty obvious to me that Kubes basically told his defense that they would have to win the game in the second half. And even if he didn't tell them explicitly, the game plan made it obvious. And they responded -- kudos to them.

I think part of the reason we saw Yates open it up on his first drive was because the coaches hadn't drawn up an alternative game plan yet with Yates in the game, and drafted one up at the half.

drunkcookie
11-29-2011, 10:14 AM
I think part of the reason we saw Yates open it up on his first drive was because the coaches hadn't drawn up an alternative game plan yet with Yates in the game, and drafted one up at the half.

That may be part of it, but i also think they wanted to see him in a two minute drill and try to get a better point cushion going into the second half... I don't remember where the ball was at when Yates came in, but that drive started at the Houston 45, so the field position was good... Also, the offense had scored 7 and 3 on the previous two drives, so there was a little offensive momentum going... They went up two possessions (by 10), and i believe Kubes felt that was enough...



Sent from my ryePhone 12G using Tapakeg

thunderkyss
11-29-2011, 11:17 AM
Yates looked very comfortable under center when he came into the game,
and I'm sure a week of starters' reps will allow him to operate this offense
just fine.

Not to knock the other Matts, I'm fine with Matt Schaub the starter, & Matt Leinart the possibility.

But Yates showed swagger. The kinda swagger you want to see from your field general. If only he can master this system the way Schaub has, or live up to the potential of Leinart the first round pick, then we'll have something.

:cow:

Oh, I'm fairly sure of it. It was pretty obvious to me that Kubes basically told his defense that they would have to win the game in the second half. And even if he didn't tell them explicitly, the game plan made it obvious. And they responded -- kudos to them.


If you listen to the Kubiak Show yesterday, I was impressed with Kubiak's comments about his team. He said he didn't have to tell the defense anything, they knew & they welcomed the challenge.

Gotta love that.

Playoffs
11-29-2011, 11:21 AM
I'm fine with Matt Schaub the starter, & Matt Leinart the possibility...I wouldn't be surprised if Leinart takes an offer from another team for next year.

Texans_Chick
11-29-2011, 01:16 PM
Dumb article. Not unexpected.

If you have to win a bunch of games to finish a season:

2 QBs that know Kubiak's system been through whatever camp there's been > 1 QB that knows Kubiak's system.

Even if TJ Yates is great QB, you have to be a particularly careful with him because your alternative is guy who knows system less than Bradlee Van Pelt.

Leinart didn't particularly impress though I did like his TD throw more than Lombardi did. That wasn't an easy throw. You could win games with what Leinart was doing. He wasn't pressed to do anything harder than that because the game was close.

ziggy29
11-29-2011, 01:20 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Leinart takes an offer from another team for next year.
If Yates turns out to be pretty good and Schaub comes back fully healthy, this team has little to no use for Leinart.

ChampionTexan
11-29-2011, 01:35 PM
I think part of the reason we saw Yates open it up on his first drive was because the coaches hadn't drawn up an alternative game plan yet with Yates in the game, and drafted one up at the half.

I think the biggest reason we saw Yates open it up on his only drive of the first half is because they took possession on their own 45 yard line, there was less than 2 minutes left on the clock, and the Texans had no timeouts left.

Kubes coached a smart game Sunday. Hopefully it's a sign of what we can expect the remainder of the season.

GP
11-29-2011, 01:50 PM
Yates looked alright at the end of the first half, while he was attempting
to move the offense with zero starters reps in practice. I'm sure his
second half performance could be attributed to Kubiak handing the game over to the
defense.

Yates looked very comfortable under center when he came into the game,
and I'm sure a week of starters' reps will allow him to operate this offense
just fine.

The more I read stuff from guys like Winston, and our discussions here, it just might be that halftime in the Texans locker room vs. Jags was a time when Kubiak and Wade Phillips told the whole team: "Look, they're not going to beat us. We have a lead, we have a defense, and we're going to pull things back and let the clock do its work."

I can envision an atmosphere in the locker room where Kubiak told the whole team that he was NOT going to put Yates and Owen Daniels into harm's way for a game that was already won by halftime.

Isn't it ironic that Kubiak walked away a winner this past Sunday while Del Rio was fired. The tide is turning, guys. I can feel it.

The football gods are working in mysterious ways. Their ways are higher than our ways. Just go with it.

drunkcookie
11-29-2011, 02:07 PM
The football gods are working in mysterious ways. Their ways are higher than our ways. Just go with it.

Yah, and their ways are really pissing me off!

It's like they all went on vacation with a great plan for the Texans in place, but the two janitor-gods that stayed behind couldn't follow the "do not touch" instructions that Lambardeus left on the control panel and are up there turning all the dials and pressing all of the buttons...

I don't know what the God version of the Bahamas is like this time of year, but let's hope that place loses its appeal like right about effin yesterday so they can get back and clean up that mess..


Sent from my ryePhone 12G using Tapakeg

GP
11-29-2011, 02:10 PM
Yah, and their ways are really pissing me off!

It's like they all went on vacation with a great plan for the Texans in place, but the two janitor-gods that stayed behind couldn't follow the "do not touch" instructions that Lambardeus left on the control panel and are up there turning all the dials and pressing all of the buttons...

I don't know what the God version of the Bahamas is like this time of year, but let's hope that place loses its appeal like right about effin yesterday so they can get back and clean up that mess..


Sent from my ryePhone 12G using Tapakeg

LOL! That was funny stuff.

The janitor gods. "Hey, what does THIS button do? Uh oh. Oops."

Doppelganger
11-29-2011, 02:35 PM
It is what it is. move forward with Yates no looking back, I mean is there anything the Texans could have done differently? Keep Grossman instead of moving on with Leinart? Or draft Mallet instead of trading up in the second to grab highly graded CB Brandon Harris.

After this season is finished & the staff does it internal team reviews & player assessments, Rick Smith may deceide to focus more on 2012 QB draft & free agent class. Until then its TJ Yates & Kellen Clemons bottom line.

1. Last year's D was SO bad that it was hard to fault Wade for wanting to grab a highly touted DB prospect like Harris. Harris has not gotten onto the field but that is a good thing, in my mind it suggests he is being brought along slowly and s being given the time he needs to learn how to play as a DB as opposed to being thrown into the fire like a certain first round CB was.

2. Kubes did draft TJ so he showed some foresight.

3. TJ's performance will likely give us a good idea of what SMith and Kubes think of him. If he is able to stay healthy and play reasonably well, I think there is a good chance, Kubes rolls with the combo of TJ and a couple of backups until Schaub is ready to go again. If TJ doesn't have it, I wouldn't be surprised if they went after a QB like Matt Flynn.

Double Barrel
11-29-2011, 03:22 PM
It gotta' say, when reading this thread, it is so nice to read that we have a defense that the head coach can trust to go out there and seal the deal.

We've all been waiting for that defense for a looooooong time. All hail Wade!!! :texflag:

burro
11-29-2011, 08:05 PM
Was I the only one that wasn't "blown away" by Leinart? I know Kubiak didn't ask him to do much but the numbers dont lie.

Im not saying TJ completely showed him up, Im just saying Leinart didn't do anything Cleo Lemon couldn't have done.

Check down. Check down. Check down.

I know, thats all that was expected of him and he executed that game plan but saying that he did great when he didnt do much at all is a bit of an overstatement.

I wouldn't use the term "blown away", but I was definitely more impressed with Leinart than I was with Yates (even though Kubiak had assumed the fetal position by the time Yates went in). Leinart checked down a lot, yes, but he also threw a hell of a TD and proved that he could move the ball 10+ yards in under three tries, something that Yates has yet to prove he is capable of.

The Pencil Neck
11-29-2011, 08:23 PM
I think part of the reason we saw Yates open it up on his first drive was because the coaches hadn't drawn up an alternative game plan yet with Yates in the game, and drafted one up at the half.

I think there's also a possibility that Kubiak didn't know how badly injured Leinart was. If he thought Leinart was going to be able to go in the second half, he wouldn't have been worrying about Yates getting injured and so he let him play.

During half time, he heard that Leinart was gone and he decided to ice the game to win it.

I think what we saw at the end of the first half is the "real" TJ and I think that's the QB we're going to get for the rest of the season.

Fili
11-29-2011, 08:31 PM
Yates is a more mobile QB. The first NFL plays for Yates were remarkable. I was certainly surprised. You can see in this video that Yates can read the defense pretty well and run the ball for the first down just like how he attempted to against the Jags.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_B8HCfUqv4

2slik4u
11-29-2011, 08:36 PM
I wouldn't use the term "blown away", but I was definitely more impressed with Leinart than I was with Yates (even though Kubiak had assumed the fetal position by the time Yates went in). Leinart checked down a lot, yes, but he also threw a hell of a TD and proved that he could move the ball 10+ yards in under three tries, something that Yates has yet to prove he is capable of.

...except for that whole "two-minute drill" thingy that he did right before half. Which, coincedentally was the first drive of his career.

burro
11-29-2011, 08:49 PM
...except for that whole "two-minute drill" thingy that he did right before half. Which, coincedentally was the first drive of his career.

One drive isn't anything to throw a party over, just sayin'...

I have confidence that Yates could be good, but to act like Yates is some kind of immediate improvement based on what we saw Sunday is homerism at its worst.

2slik4u
11-29-2011, 10:05 PM
One drive isn't anything to throw a party over, just sayin'...

I have confidence that Yates could be good, but to act like Yates is some kind of immediate improvement based on what we saw Sunday is homerism at its worst.

I'm not saying Yates is better than leinart. In fact I think leinart is better. I'm just pointing out the flaws in your logic.

Leinart was not impressive. Yates didn't blow the roof off either. Since that game is the only sample size we have to go off of, neither of the two stood above the other.

Vinny
11-29-2011, 10:29 PM
One drive isn't anything to throw a party over, just sayin'...

I have confidence that Yates could be good, but to act like Yates is some kind of immediate improvement based on what we saw Sunday is homerism at its worst.
If you look at the actual throws, Yates was driving the ball down to the wr's. Andre didn't see a catch till Yates was in the game I think. Leinart didn't dispel his reputation one bit Sunday. Small sample size, but consistent all the same. Capt'n Checkdown he was.

76Texan
11-29-2011, 10:42 PM
If you look at the actual throws, Yates was driving the ball down to the wr's. Andre didn't see a catch till Yates was in the game I think. Leinart didn't dispel his reputation one bit Sunday. Small sample size, but consistent all the same. Capt'n Checkdown he was.

From another thread:

The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.

I don't see anything wrong with Leinart's decision on where to go with the ball.
Sorry, but it seems to me some people are simply stuck with the past and/or influenced by some of the media's bias.

burro
11-29-2011, 10:59 PM
If you look at the actual throws, Yates was driving the ball down to the wr's. Andre didn't see a catch till Yates was in the game I think. Leinart didn't dispel his reputation one bit Sunday. Small sample size, but consistent all the same. Capt'n Checkdown he was.

Capt'n Checkdown didn't turn the ball over, didn't make boneheaded decisions and managed the game well enough; to say that Leinart was somehow sub-par because he found his check down receiver more often than he tried to force something down the field seems a little absurd to me. Boring as it may be, Leinart did exactly what was asked of him and exactly what we were all hoping he would do - not eff it up and manage the game. I'm not saying that Yates sucked out or wont work out, I've drank my Kool-Aid. I just can't in good conscience sit here and rag on a guy that got injured stepping up for our team.

Vinny
11-29-2011, 11:51 PM
Capt'n Checkdown didn't turn the ball over, didn't make boneheaded decisions and managed the game well enough; to say that Leinart was somehow sub-par because he found his check down receiver more often than he tried to force something down the field seems a little absurd to me. Boring as it may be, Leinart did exactly what was asked of him and exactly what we were all hoping he would do - not eff it up and manage the game. I'm not saying that Yates sucked out or wont work out, I've drank my Kool-Aid. I just can't in good conscience sit here and rag on a guy that got injured stepping up for our team.
You defend him like he's your Brother....almost a flashback to Hulk75. I'm saying that Leinart didn't impress me with his lack of throwing the ball down field and it wasn't any different than how he was a disappointing QB for the Cards. Frankly I've been supporting him...never said a bad word about him last week, but I have more snaps to draw more conclusions from this week. I never said that Yates was a better QB...just that he looked better at being a QB than Leinart did Sunday, plus Leinart did nothing, and I mean nothing to dispel his old habits of chronically checking the ball down to the backs and short route runners. I'm not ragging on Leinart. I'm just discussing reality.

GP
11-29-2011, 11:59 PM
I noticed Leinart going through his route tree, CBS posted some video in the lead up to the game Sunday. He was verrrrry casually throwing the ball at like 25% speed, almost like he was just going through the motions. I didn't like seeing that image just before the Jags game.

Then, during the game, the guy was half-assing his footwork, IMO, the very thing he said he had been working on. His dropbacks were slow. His roll outs were slow. The play where he got hurt, a screen play, Leinart was DAMN slow getting back to his final dropback spot. IMO, Winston didn't exactly block the rusher as well as he should have...but to me, Leinart hurt himself on that play. It was a culmination, IMO, of a lot of slow-ass footwork by Leinart that day.

Even the TD throw to Dreessen, Leinart was slogging it out with his footwork.

Nothing looked crisp to me. And it doesn't have to be if Leinart is going to throw checkdowns all day. It's a 5-yard pass, it needs no footwork and no zip on the ball.

Burro, in my opinion you ARE a bit suspect on this topic because you are pumping Leinart here in this thread and in the Game Day thread you called Yates' slide a "Vagina Slide." Just taking those two contrasting posts into evaluation...it looks like you have an agenda and not truly analyzing what happened that day. Just my two cents.

Carr Bombed
11-30-2011, 12:28 AM
From another thread:



That doesn't have anything remotely to do with Leinart habitually checking the ball down. You think just because they script their plays that they're also scripting which receivers to throw to?

Yes they script plays, plays that have many routes....it's still up to the QB to decide which route and receiver to throw to.

Sorry, but nothing Leinart did Sunday impressed me. Not even the TD pass. Dreessen was wide open and the ball floated in the air for a eternity...against a better secondary that pass gets broken up or picked.

GP
11-30-2011, 12:37 AM
That doesn't have anything remotely to do with Leinart habitually checking the ball down. You think just because they script their plays that they're also scripting which receivers to throw to?

Yes they script plays, plays that have many routes....it's still up to the QB to decide which route and receiver to throw to.

Sorry, but nothing Leinart did Sunday impressed me. Not even the TD pass. Dreessen was wide open and the ball floated in the air for a eternity...against a better secondary that pass gets broken up or picked.

It was only a poorly-timed adjustment by one of the Jags' secondary players that allowed that ball to be caught by Dreessen.

I know some posters were claiming that Andre Johnson was not open on that play. They say the player covering AJ had stopped covering him and was breaking on the ball as it was headed for Dreessen, but I argue otherwise.

The Jags player covering AJ had already made his mind up to stop covering AJ on that play, and was breaking for shallower ground because he saw Leinart in trouble and he knew the better odds were on the shorter route. The Jags player made the right choice, but he sort of slipped or was hesitant on how he broke off of AJ to make his play on Dreessen. Had he committed earlier, or had he drove into that area of the field better once he made the break, that ball gets picked off and taken the other way for 6.

Instead, a lofted ball fell into the hands of Dreessen and we scored what ended up being the game-winning TD (all things considered). Matt was slow as hell with his footwork on THAT play, and he threw off his back foot, and the Jags player had the slightest pause that gave the ball a real chance of landing in Dreessen's hands. The whole play, IMO, was VERY fortunate for us. It was the sort of play that we always saw happening AGAINST us in games we needed to win badly. But this past Sunday, the football gods gave us ONE Leinart TD pass before unleashing a season-ending hit on him.

It is crazy to think that Leinart's TD throw was the difference in the game, but he ended up getting injured just a few plays later. I honestly do not think he was going to throw much of anything else down the field that day anyways. That one throw was the most important of the whole game, and I think it was lucky to have been caught and converted into a TD for us.

ObsiWan
11-30-2011, 01:08 AM
Originally Posted by 76Texan http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1839642#post1839642)
The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.

I don't see anything wrong with Leinart's decision on where to go with the ball.
Sorry, but it seems to me some people are simply stuck with the past and/or influenced by some of the media's bias.

My response to that post....

First, the scripted business is a red herring. That has nothing to do with the QB's decision to - or not to - go for the WR running the deeper pattern. And of all people, I don't have to tell you that patterns are run in groupings; i.e., medium or deep outs are paired with fly or post patterns to make the safeties commit. I'm sure you know the thought process. My beef was that Leinart never took a shot deep downfield to make the safeties back off. I mean, do you really consider that 14-yd pass to AJ or the TD to Breessen a "deep" pattern?

Seriously?

C'mon man.

While I have to confess with being pleased Leinart never turned the ball over, I'm somewhat disappointed that he never really stretched the field.

Bottom line: ten completions yielded 57 yds; 20 of which came on one play to Dreessen. What else do you call a 5.7 yds/completion average (4.111 if you throw out that 20-yd "bomb") but checking down?

thunderkyss
11-30-2011, 08:14 AM
I'm saying that Leinart didn't impress me with his lack of throwing the ball down field and it wasn't any different than how he was a disappointing QB for the Cards.

Agreed. He only impressed me on one throw. When he came out of the bootleg & Mincy was in his face. He set his feet & threw the ball where it needed to be. Dressen didn't have to slow down for it, it looked like it was going directly to a DB..... Dressen come into the picture & snatches it out of the air.

My biggest worry with back-up/has-beens/never-was QBs is that they still fear the pass rush.

Leinart saw it & delivered.

Yates was definitely impressive. Anyone saying different is probably on heart medication or something. Especially considering the preparation he probably had/didn't have going into the game.

Then he approaches the line, the first time with enough swagger, my wife was commenting how "QB like" he looked before the first snap. Pointing directing, licking his fingers.... he didn't look like a rookie about to take his first snap on the road. & he "looked" like the leader on offense in his short time in the first half.

Like many here, she was cussing Kubiak for not letting Yates throw the ball in the second half. That 14 yard strike to Andre, beautiful perfectly thrown, perfect touched pass in the third Qtr made her even more irate.

She's not a Schaub fan for whatever reason, not much of a Kubiak fan either.

thunderkyss
11-30-2011, 08:22 AM
My response to that post....


Bottom line: ten completions yielded 57 yds; 20 of which came on one play to Dreessen. What else do you call a 5.7 yds/completion average (4.111 if you throw out that 20-yd "bomb") but checking down?

Winning.

We scored 17 points, letting the team do what they do & not forcing anything.

Show me open receivers down the field then we'll talk about "Check downs" whether they were the right call or not.

From where I'm sitting, looked like he made the right decisions.

17 points in the first half.... maybe that would have been a touchdown to end the first..... 24 points. figure at least 10 points in the second, that's a 34 point game, checking down & doing exactly what we thought he would be capable of doing in this offense.

Anyone thinking he was going to look different are the delusional ones. We talked for the last 2 weeks how our system is designed to move the chains & we get our big plays on the bootleg.

That's exactly what we did when Leinart was in the game.

Texan_Bill
11-30-2011, 08:33 AM
Mike Lombardi.... :thinking:

Does he think the Texans are less of a "finesse" team without Lienart??
:kitten:

burro
11-30-2011, 08:40 AM
You defend him like he's your Brother....almost a flashback to Hulk75. I'm saying that Leinart didn't impress me with his lack of throwing the ball down field and it wasn't any different than how he was a disappointing QB for the Cards. Frankly I've been supporting him...never said a bad word about him last week, but I have more snaps to draw more conclusions from this week. I never said that Yates was a better QB...just that he looked better at being a QB than Leinart did Sunday, plus Leinart did nothing, and I mean nothing to dispel his old habits of chronically checking the ball down to the backs and short route runners. I'm not ragging on Leinart. I'm just discussing reality.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. What I saw was Leinart do exactly what was expected of him; which was play safe football and let the defense and running game carry the bulk of the load. Anyone who was expecting more than a modest performance out of him, or expecting Schaub-quality play for that matter, was engaging in wishful thinking.

As for Yates, I don't know what to expect out of him honestly, but I do think the people pumping Yates as some sort of massive improvement over Leinart are probably going to be disappointed, just as they were with Leinart when he didn't come out and play at a Matt Schaub caliber. Yates will be working with a limited playbook (probably) and that wont do him any favors either.

All this BS aside, I am rooting equally for TJ's success as I was for Leinart's. I pray to God that TJ can lead us to the promised land against all odds, because frankly, it's either Yates or bust. I don't think anyone on this forum seriously wants to see Jake Delhomme under center for the Texans.

Burro, in my opinion you ARE a bit suspect on this topic because you are pumping Leinart here in this thread and in the Game Day thread you called Yates' slide a "Vagina Slide." Just taking those two contrasting posts into evaluation...it looks like you have an agenda and not truly analyzing what happened that day. Just my two cents.

Yes, GP...I am a member of the Vast-Media Conspiracy against T.J. Yates. :kitten: FWIW, I will say that comment in the game day thread was more knee-jerk reaction than sensible analysis; stemming from frustration I was experiencing watching our once potent offense fail to move the ball whatsoever in the second half. I won't try to excuse my self, and will own up to saying something boneheaded - which I do often.

El Tejano
11-30-2011, 08:49 AM
I
Yes, GP...I am a member of the Vast-Media Conspiracy against T.J. Yates. ::) FWIW, I will say that comment in the game day thread was more knee-jerk reaction than sensible analysis; stemming from frustration I was experiencing watching our once potent offense fail to move the ball whatsoever in the second half. I won't try to excuse my self, and will own up to saying something boneheaded - which I do often.

I was actually happy to see him try a run. This offense can be difficult to stop also when we have a QB who is a threat to tuck it and run. Although, I'm not sure I'm telling my QB to only take a few steps and slide, if I'm Kubiak, since he's really our only hope right now.

burro
11-30-2011, 09:09 AM
I was actually happy to see him try a run. This offense can be difficult to stop also when we have a QB who is a threat to tuck it and run. Although, I'm not sure I'm telling my QB to only take a few steps and slide, if I'm Kubiak, since he's really our only hope right now.

I thought it was tentative and found it hard to watch, but in retrospect I understand the logic behind it. As much as having a running threat in Yates would boost our offense, it only takes one hit to put Jake Delhomme under center (or Owen Daniels as it would have been in Sunday's game). For the time being, I'm just hoping to see Yates master the playbook so that it will be mostly open come game day. The last thing we need is our QB to be stuck in Rick Mirer mode.

bajabill42
11-30-2011, 11:42 AM
Lombardi proves haters will be haters, no matter what.......his "take away the 20 yard td throw" and "which hung" is all you need to read. No mention of the duress, accuracy, touch.......I wonder if Lombardi thinks Montana "hung" the pass to dwight Clark at the back of the end zone......or, was it a great pass by a great qb under heavy duress?

Too bad for Matt though. He needed these 6 games to shut up the haters once and for all. Maybe a game against Tenn would have required a gameplan that pushed the ball down the field......or, just the need to do so. This game was unlosable unless an O just turned the ball over time after time. Matt did exactly what was called for and maybe gameplanned.

I can't imagine Matt getting another golden opportunity like this one. Now, in addition to the Lombardi type haters, Matt will have to deal with being injury prone. Too Bad!!

ziggy29
11-30-2011, 11:43 AM
......his "take away the 20 yard td throw" and "which hung" is all you need to read. No mention of the duress, accuracy, touch.......

Yeah, I wondered about that one, too. I seem to recall that the "hanging" as he called it was needed to loft it over the linebacker's head so he couldn't knock it down or intercept it.

Double Barrel
11-30-2011, 11:45 AM
Lombardi is an analyst. All this talk of hidden agenda(s) and being a hater is just silly. Agree or disagree with him, but just comprehend that he's just doing his job and does the same for the other 31 teams. It's what The Network pays him to do, so change the channel if you can't handle a different perspective.

Some of our fans are just too thin-skinned sometimes. :lion:

HOU-TEX
11-30-2011, 11:48 AM
Lombardi is an analyst. All this talk of hidden agenda(s) and being a hater is just silly. Agree or disagree with him, but just comprehend that he's just doing his job and does the same for the other 31 teams. It's what The Network pays him to do, so change the channel if you can't handle a different perspective.

Some of our fans are just too thin-skinned sometimes. :lion:

True.....but he's still an asshat.

Double Barrel
11-30-2011, 11:55 AM
True.....but he's still an asshat.

I'm not a fan of his, but just the same, I don't get pissy if/when I don't like what he's got to say.

Apply the old saying about opinions and a-holes here...if ya' know what I mean. :thisbig:

GP
11-30-2011, 11:56 AM
Yes, GP...I am a member of the Vast-Media Conspiracy against T.J. Yates. :kitten: FWIW, I will say that comment in the game day thread was more knee-jerk reaction than sensible analysis; stemming from frustration I was experiencing watching our once potent offense fail to move the ball whatsoever in the second half. I won't try to excuse my self, and will own up to saying something boneheaded - which I do often.

Cool. I can see how frustration can drive us to say things in the heat of the moment. Happens all the time, thanks for the clarification burro.

I suppose Kubiak MIGHT have had a plan to try and have Leinart open up pass plays later in the game...and the injury forced the abandonment of that idea.

beerlover
11-30-2011, 11:58 AM
Lombardi is unique in that he really does speak his mind even if it's skewed :crazy:

bajabill42
11-30-2011, 12:02 PM
I listen to them.....I can take it.....but, Lombardi has been a hater in the past, as he states(virtually).......this just confirms his opinion.......but, a hater is a hater as he clearly demonstrates........it was a great throw. I don't take it away. It was 70% completion rate......it was 110 Rating......it was enough points in LT a half to win the game........and Lombardi comes out with.... SEE I WAS RIGHT.......without knowing the gameplan or breaking down the film.........I WAS RIGHT, based on nothing, but preconceptions.....gee, I call that a hater. I would love to see Mayock interview Kubiak as to the gameplan and then to breakdown the game film. But, not much chance of that.......just LOMBARDI, I WAS RIGHT!!!! What a joke!

Playoffs
11-30-2011, 01:01 PM
Lombardi is unique in that he really does speak his mind even if it's skewed :crazy:

Problem Lombardi is he talks out of both sides of his mouth. Useless.

Thorn
11-30-2011, 01:11 PM
Aw, come on guys, get real. Lombardi is like every other talking head on every football TV show we watch. If we like what he says, he's a smart analyst. If we don't like what he says, he's stupid. :lol:

HOU-TEX
11-30-2011, 01:21 PM
I'm not a fan of his, but just the same, I don't get pissy if/when I don't like what he's got to say.

Apply the old saying about opinions and a-holes here...if ya' know what I mean. :thisbig:

Yeah, I get ya. I don't really care what he says. It's the 'high and mighty' act he tends to portray, when in fact, he's just another Casserly.

Double Barrel
11-30-2011, 02:28 PM
Aw, come on guys, get real. Lombardi is like every other talking head on every football TV show we watch. If we like what he says, he's a smart analyst. If we don't like what he says, he's stupid. :lol:

Ain't that the truth!

The more the Texans win, the more press they will get. But that, in turn, means both good and bad press. We just have to be thick-skinned as fans and understand that just because someone is paid to say something, that doesn't mean that they have an agenda, drink hatorade, or hate Houston.

Maybe they are just stupid. :fingergun:

Yeah, I get ya. I don't really care what he says. It's the 'high and mighty' act he tends to portray, when in fact, he's just another Casserly.

yep, my thoughts exactly. I almost brought up Casserly as an example, too. :kitten:

thunderkyss
11-30-2011, 02:44 PM
I'm not a fan of his, but just the same, I don't get pissy if/when I don't like what he's got to say.


I think a little piss & vinegar is warranted here. Leinart just got kicked in the gnads by fate & Lombardi smacks him with the backhand.

Not classy at all. asshat is appropriate in this situation.

HOU-TEX
11-30-2011, 02:54 PM
I think a little piss & vinegar is warranted here. Leinart just got kicked in the gnads by fate & Lombardi smacks him with the backhand.

Not classy at all. asshat is appropriate in this situation.

I read that article he wrote and did not get the 'smacks him with a back hand' vibe at all. He even made it a point to mention how bad he felt for Leinart. I think he's an asshat, but not for the reasoning you state. I think you read between the lines incorrectly.

It's a tough break for Leinart to get injured as he was trying to rebuild his career, and I do feel badly for him. Maybe he was going to prove my evaluation of him wrong by driving the ball down the field, standing tall in the pocket and making all the tough throws. Maybe he did change his style of play and he was just getting warmed up in the Jaguars game. But with this injury, we will never know.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8248b952/article/texans-better-off-with-yates-not-leinart-more-week-12-notes

thunderkyss
11-30-2011, 03:07 PM
I read that article he wrote and did not get the 'smacks him with a back hand' vibe at all. He even made it a point to mention how bad he felt for Leinart. I think he's an asshat, but not for the reasoning you state. I think you read between the lines incorrectly.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8248b952/article/texans-better-off-with-yates-not-leinart-more-week-12-notes

Oh that's not the reason I think he's an asshat (I don't really, but I could see why someone would), I think the situation was appropriate.

He says, "I feel bad" yadda, yadda, yadda, but as was said, he doesn't mention how Matt had the presence (poise) to set his feet & deliver the ball in imminent danger, he also disregards the fact that Matt played well enough to lead the Texans to 17 points, despite spotting the Jags a 7 point lead. Or even the presence of mind to get the ball to Arian's feet instead of taking a sack on that season ending tackle.

"Matt played well, but T.J. Yate......... " that's all he had to do, no reason to talk about floating balls & check downs in a WCO.

But that's just me.
:spin:

drunkcookie
11-30-2011, 03:53 PM
Lombardi is an analyst. All this talk of hidden agenda(s) and being a hater is just silly. Agree or disagree with him, but just comprehend that he's just doing his job and does the same for the other 31 teams. It's what The Network pays him to do, so change the channel if you can't handle a different perspective.

Some of our fans are just too thin-skinned sometimes. :lion:

I don't think Lombardi is an overall hater, but that was a horrible take on Leinart... Analyst or not, those guys do have agendas, and that agenda is to remain credible and readable ($$$)... They remain credible and readable by eating as little crow as possible, having unique takes and in this case by creating the illusion that they've been right all along and highlighting their "correctness"... With a little "unique take" thrown in for added security, this is what you have in Lombardi's article...

Now, I say "illusion" because with less than a half of play to go off of as an example, Lombardi suggests that example proved his past stances on Leinart correct, when infact it not only proved nothing, it never came close to proving him correct... The TD pass that apparently hung in the air forever actually did not! Was it a laser? No. But did it serve it's intended purpose, which was to find a target down field? Yes. It also looked like a throw Schaub's made a few times (along with every other "non-elite" QB in the league)... Also, "The Checkdown King" may be a fitting tag for Leinart, but in this offense most passes are short to begin with, Schaub "checks down" quite frequently, it's called "The Houston Texans Offense"...

Maybe Leinart would have failed again, it was for sure possible... But with a little less than a half of Hot Tub Matt QBing the Texans O to go off of, a half that saw him making the correct decisions and throwing a pretty damn good pass, suggesting he was already failing is Lombardi's way of saying "See! I told you so... Look at me! I was right! Keep reading me..."

Also, Yates > Leinart was an unexpected take... There's your "unique" factor...

Sent from my ryePhone 12G using Tapakeg

Double Barrel
11-30-2011, 03:56 PM
I think a little piss & vinegar is warranted here. Leinart just got kicked in the gnads by fate & Lombardi smacks him with the backhand.

Not classy at all. asshat is appropriate in this situation.

A lot of Texans fans are saying the same thing about what we got to see of Leinart. You do realize that he's not paid to be "classy" on The Network, yeah?

And to be honest, I rooted for Leinart as a fan, but there were parts of me that was concerned based upon his NFL career up to this point. Just him re-signing as a backup sort of indicated a lack of hunger to be a starter on his part. QBs that are hungry are willing to start for any of the 32 teams. It's not a knock, but just a fan observation. I thought it was interesting to note that he could not beat Orlovsky out of the no. 2 spot last year and decided to stay a backup to Schaub this year. He looked like...well, Matt Leinart out there Sunday. My hope was that he could just avoid mistakes and let our team take up the slack, which is pretty much what happened.

With TJ, I have no idea what to expect. I did like the aura he represented himself with when he stepped behind the center. Like has been mentioned, he seemed much more confident than a rookie would seem to be when thrown into a game for a two minute drill. I'm not saying that translates to being a great QB, but it certainly won't hurt to have that attitude. As we know, much of the position is between the ears.

BTW, I'm not defending Lombardi. But, I do keep it in perspective that he's paid to spew his opinions on things. We are talking about him. He's not talking about us.

Double Barrel
11-30-2011, 04:00 PM
I don't think Lombardi is an overall hater, but that was a horrible take on Leinart... Analyst or not, those guys do have agendas, and that agenda is to remain credible and readable ($$$)...

See, that I can agree with. You don't label him but just disagree with his take. That's alright and our right as fans.

And agree on 'agenda' as you frame it. My point was that I don't necessarily think he's got an agenda against specific teams or individual players. Obviously, an agenda to keep his job is understandable.

drunkcookie
11-30-2011, 04:26 PM
See, that I can agree with. You don't label him but just disagree with his take. That's alright and our right as fans.

And agree on 'agenda' as you frame it. My point was that I don't necessarily think he's got an agenda against specific teams or individual players. Obviously, an agenda to keep his job is understandable.

Yah, I agree that he probably doesn't have an angenda against certain teams and/or players either (unless he does... hmmmm)...

My purpose here is done ha, which was to point out that he's just like a lot of the big stars in his business, they'll go out of their way to remain consistant, even if it is only a mirage of consistancy... If that means being intellectually dishonest, oh well, that's that biz...


Sent from my ryePhone 12G using Tapakeg

ObsiWan
11-30-2011, 05:46 PM
Winning.

We scored 17 points, letting the team do what they do & not forcing anything.

Show me open receivers down the field then we'll talk about "Check downs" whether they were the right call or not.

From where I'm sitting, looked like he made the right decisions.

17 points in the first half.... maybe that would have been a touchdown to end the first..... 24 points. figure at least 10 points in the second, that's a 34 point game, checking down & doing exactly what we thought he would be capable of doing in this offense.

Anyone thinking he was going to look different are the delusional ones. We talked for the last 2 weeks how our system is designed to move the chains & we get our big plays on the bootleg.

That's exactly what we did when Leinart was in the game.

Without seeing the All-22 viewpoint of Leinart's plays we fans will never know whether all those checkdowns were warranted or not.

And we'll never know how the 2nd half would have unfolded with Leinart under center instead of Yates. We all realize that Kubiak went into "run out the clock and don't get our last QB hurt" mode in the second half.

So you're right, we won. At the end of the day, that's what we all wanted.

drs23
11-30-2011, 06:48 PM
I'm not a fan of his, but just the same, I don't get pissy if/when I don't like what he's got to say.

Apply the old saying about opinions and a-holes here...if ya' know what I mean. :thisbig:

:wesmantexanfan:

REP

TimeKiller
11-30-2011, 07:03 PM
I can do math. Watch-

Leinart + Yates - Schaub > Yates + Clemens + Delhome

Yates may be all that and a bag of chips but there's no way in hell losing Leinart makes this team better. He might not be Steve Young 2.0. Who is? He was a quality back up though. What if he just sucked and Kubiak put in Yates? And then Yates blew up and went Tom Brady on everybody...and you still have a quality backup in Leinart. Still have a guy who at the very least is totally better than Kellen Clemens or Jake Freaking Delhomme.....

There needs to be a new smilie of a cross-eyed parrot that just shrieks for attention. We'll all know what it really means.

thunderkyss
11-30-2011, 07:13 PM
A lot of Texans fans are saying the same thing about what we got to see of Leinart. You do realize that he's not paid to be "classy" on The Network, yeah?


BTW, I'm not defending Lombardi. But, I do keep it in perspective that he's paid to spew his opinions on things.

& we give ours here.... for freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Playoffs
11-30-2011, 07:15 PM
^They said there wouldn't be any math? :foottap:

thunderkyss
11-30-2011, 07:24 PM
And agree on 'agenda' as you frame it. My point was that I don't necessarily think he's got an agenda against specific teams or individual players. Obviously, an agenda to keep his job is understandable.

Even if Matt was not a Houston Texans, I would say the same thing. It was a classless piece. Just like we tell others here, you don't have to tear down one player to build another up.

We're talking about a guy who has gone through a lot & as far as I can tell, is just trying to get his career back on track. Golden boy from Cali humbles himself, sat behind Orlovsky, come back as a back-up, waiting for an opportunity, the old fashioned way. He could have ran back to daddy Carroll & be "given" a job, but he wanted to make his own way.

Again, Leinart did exactly what many correctly assumed he would be asked to do. However, Lombardi "assesses" Matt is a "check down king" when the team rallied to a 17 point lead on the 3rd ranked defense in the league in less than a half.

Go back & look at my posts, I generally don't get on the media for expressing their opinion. I don't think Lombardi is an "asshat" but this is not your typical, "Texans don't get no respect" reaction & that's all I'm saying.

Lombardi deserves it for this article.

The Pencil Neck
11-30-2011, 07:38 PM
Did anyone see the bit on ESPN where Steve Young said that Kubiak should give him a call? :spin:

2slik4u
11-30-2011, 07:42 PM
I listen to them.....I can take it.....but, Lombardi has been a hater in the past, as he states(virtually).......this just confirms his opinion.......but, a hater is a hater as he clearly demonstrates........it was a great throw. I don't take it away. It was 70% completion rate......it was 110 Rating......it was enough points in LT a half to win the game........and Lombardi comes out with.... SEE I WAS RIGHT.......without knowing the gameplan or breaking down the film.........I WAS RIGHT, based on nothing, but preconceptions.....gee, I call that a hater. I would love to see Mayock interview Kubiak as to the gameplan and then to breakdown the game film. But, not much chance of that.......just LOMBARDI, I WAS RIGHT!!!! What a joke!

Holy Ellipses!!!