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CloakNNNdagger
11-27-2011, 07:12 PM
..........was scary. Foster fumbles twice and besides his 43 yd run, he averages 1 ypc for the other 21 carries. Tate has only 5 carries and logs 26 yds........and then disappears.

I can understand the hesitancy to let a rookie loose. Although it may also be somewhat scary to do so............if we don't show a better effective balance of pass plays, our running game is likely to continue looking a lot different than we have been used to..........and as effective as what we saw this week.

Hervoyel
11-27-2011, 07:16 PM
We can't have an offense where the QB is almost never given the option to throw the ball much farther than the LOS. I understand that todays events took the Texans out of their plans but if they aren't ready to let Yates throw more next week and in the weeks that follow then they need to find someone they will throw with because if all we do is run then we aren't going to win again this year.

otisbean
11-27-2011, 07:16 PM
..........was scary. Foster fumbles twice and besides his 43 yd run, he averages 1 ypc for the other 21 carries. Tate has only 5 carries and logs 26 yds........and then disappears.

I can understand the hesitancy to let a rookie loose. Although it may also be somewhat scary to do so............if we don't show a better balance of pass plays, our running game is likely to continue looking a lot different than we have been used to..........and as effective as what we saw this week.

I think we were so conservative because we had a lead and Jax's is BAD and our D was playing well. I hope we open it up a bit more next week

Pantherstang84
11-27-2011, 07:17 PM
We can't have an offense where the QB is almost never given the option to throw the ball much farther than the LOS. I understand that todays events took the Texans out of their plans but if they aren't ready to let Yates throw more next week and in the weeks that follow then they need to find someone they will throw with because if all we do is run then we aren't going to win again this year.

This. Can not just go into turtle mode like they did today.

cdastros
11-27-2011, 07:18 PM
I think we miss lawrence vickers a lot. James casey didn't look all that great today.

TexanFan881
11-27-2011, 07:20 PM
I had been saying this for the past two weeks...with no passing game why not stack the box???

EllisUnit
11-27-2011, 07:20 PM
I think we were so conservative because we had a lead and Jax's is BAD and our D was playing well. I hope we open it up a bit more next week

Look at New England man, every game whether they are up by 14-30 they continue to throw it and try to score points.

mariowillshine15
11-27-2011, 07:23 PM
Look at New England man, every game whether they are up by 14-30 they continue to throw it and try to score points.

They have one of the greatest QBs ever pulling the trigger. Easier decision.

HJam72
11-27-2011, 07:24 PM
Look at Green Bay, everyone keeps throwing on them and they have 22 Ints.--part of why they are 11-0. :gun:

otisbean
11-27-2011, 07:31 PM
They have one of the greatest QBs ever pulling the trigger. Easier decision.

This^^^. TOs were the only way Jax were going to get back in the game. With a rookie 3rd stringer in, I understand the logic of going conservative to preserve the win TODAY.

I do agree though that we have to open it up starting next week. TJ looked good on his first series in the game, hopefully it's a sign of things to come.

HJam72
11-27-2011, 07:32 PM
I think it really just comes down to the fact hat Kubiak knew a 10 point lead would do it against Jax. Their O can't score on us, but their D can...

There are 2 times when you can just almost always run on 1st and 2nd down:

1. A D that can't stop it, like Indy.

2. An opposing O that can't score, like Jax right now, provided you already have a lead.

Obviously, this game met one of those scenarios. We really don't know how much rope Kubiak will or won't give Yuts (hehe) in a different situation, we just have to hope that Yetties doesn't hang himself with it.

Here's to Yotes! :fans:

CloakNNNdagger
11-27-2011, 08:32 PM
This^^^. TOs were the only way Jax were going to get back in the game. With a rookie 3rd stringer in, I understand the logic of going conservative to preserve the win TODAY.

I do agree though that we have to open it up starting next week. TJ looked good on his first series in the game, hopefully it's a sign of things to come.


If we try the same game plan against Atlanta, or any decent team for that matter, they will stack 8 or 9 in the box........and effectively tear us a new one.

Texn4life
11-27-2011, 08:37 PM
The Jaguars had a very good defensive game plan against us. They never over-pursued and allowed any cutback lanes. They're used to our zone blocking scheme and played disciplined football today. Every time Arian tried to put a foot in the ground to cut back he was cutting back right into a defender. They did a good job on us today.

Nawzer
11-27-2011, 08:37 PM
This is going to be something the Texans are going to have to deal with the rest of the season. Even if Leinart was healthy, teams were going to stack the LOS against us and make the QB beat them. Kubiak and crew have to come up with creative ways to loosen up the defense. That may mean more short dump passes to Foster and Tate. It could also mean more 4 receiver sets running crossing patterns and such, which will allow the playmakers to get their hands on the ball and make something happen. It's tough and I don't envy Kubiak's position, but they have to come up with solutions to ease the pressure off of Yates or whoever is the QB next week.

eriadoc
11-27-2011, 08:42 PM
The Jaguars had a very good defensive game plan against us. They never over-pursued and allowed any cutback lanes. They're used to our zone blocking scheme and played disciplined football today. Every time Arian tried to put a foot in the ground to cut back he was cutting back right into a defender. They did a good job on us today.

This is exactly why they needed to play Tate more today, and I'm mystified as to why Kubiak doesn't see this. Tate has a tendency to keep his runs front side, while Foster is much more likely to look for a cutback lane. Mix it up and wear out the Jags D.

Hervoyel
11-27-2011, 08:46 PM
This is exactly why they needed to play Tate more today, and I'm mystified as to why Kubiak doesn't see this. Tate has a tendency to keep his runs front side, while Foster is much more likely to look for a cutback lane. Mix it up and wear out the Jags D.

Agreed. I was surprised to find them not running Tate & Foster in and out all day. Sometimes you can shred them with Foster cutting back and juking people out of their cleats, other times Tate does better smacking them in the face with a shoulder pad and busting through to daylight. Today Tate could have had a hundred yards I suspect if he'd had the carries.

_____
Edit: Meant Tate could have had a hundred yards if he'd had the carries.

gwallaia
11-27-2011, 08:49 PM
Also, Derrick Ward never stepped on the field today that I can remember.

Texn4life
11-27-2011, 08:52 PM
This is exactly why they needed to play Tate more today, and I'm mystified as to why Kubiak doesn't see this. Tate has a tendency to keep his runs front side, while Foster is much more likely to look for a cutback lane. Mix it up and wear out the Jags D.

I had a thread about running back balance weeks ago against Jacksonville when Foster had 33 and Tate only had 5. Trust me I saw it way back then. You have 2 dynamic backs for a reason. Use them you dummy!

Scooter
11-27-2011, 08:57 PM
i liked dang near every playcall kubiak made today, he appeared to make it fairly easy on his quarterbacks. the one flaw (and a major one) was playing foster over tate. foster was just plain off today, while tate obviously matched up better. it happens more often than i like that kubiak forces foster when it's seemingly obvious that tate has the hot hand.

GP
11-27-2011, 09:01 PM
I remember playing the Redskins last year, early in the season.

Kyle Shanahan had Donovan McNabb doing 3-step drops on every pass play the entire first half. The result was quick slants, quick outs, little crossing patterns, and it got the ball into the hands of the Redskins WRs and TEs and RBs.

That's what you do, to get a QB some confidence and to slow down a pass rush, and you mix in the run. The Redskins got away from that formula in the second half...trying to run the ball with Portis...and it cost them the win.

This is a time to use 4 WR and even motion out the RB and use 5 WR sets, like someone mentioned. 3-step drop, which prevents the pass rush from effectively getting to the QB. An excellent plan for a guy like Yaits, IMO.

There is a way to overcome problems, but I fear Kubiak's solutions have always been to rely on playmakers to make plays rather than crafting a solid, exploitive game plan that actually works.

It took us the Raiders game to figure out how to play without Andre Johnson. It will likely take us this game, and maybe the Atlanta game, to figure out how to play without Schaub. We sure as hell were not ready to put Yaytes into the game in place of Leinart.

TexansBull
11-27-2011, 09:04 PM
I had been saying this for the past two weeks...with no passing game why not stack the box???

This^

That is how the Texans can be beat. Here on out the opposing teams are going to stack the box and make us throw on them to win. We need a passing game or our offense is going to go down the tubes.

We don't need a HOF quarterback to be starting - we just need someone to be competent and minimize the errors. I look around the league, and we need a Flacco/Sanchez/Romo type of quarterback. You look at those three stooges that are franchise qbs but on the verge of just being starting qbs with their teams quietly wondering if they are the answer to take them to the Superbowl. They are just marginally average, nothing special, but just have a complete team around them. Flacco has proven he cannot handle putting the team on his back - see the three loses. Sanchez is up and down, and Romo self destructs. And at the end of the day, would dont need someone that good to run our offense.

That's why I am still optimistic that if Yates can just be OK, not good, just OK we can get the running game re-established along with the play action and win a playoff game.

DocBar
11-27-2011, 09:06 PM
We've seen several times this year how important a balanced attack is to our offense. The running games works because of the threat of a good passing attack and vice-versa. We'll need Yates to prove he can make a defense pay for stacking the box or we'll have a tough time against everyone but Indy for the rest of the year. Atlanta and Cinci have very good run defenses but only mediocre pass defenses.
I'm OK with the check down passes as long as we move the chains and keep our D fresh. As hard as the D plays each down, they seem to get gassed.

2slik4u
11-27-2011, 09:07 PM
..........was scary. Foster fumbles twice and besides his 43 yd run, he averages 1 ypc for the other 21 carries. Tate has only 5 carries and logs 26 yds........and then disappears.

I can understand the hesitancy to let a rookie loose. Although it may also be somewhat scary to do so............if we don't show a better effective balance of pass plays, our running game is likely to continue looking a lot different than we have been used to..........and as effective as what we saw this week.

Cut 'em some slack. Rookie QB at the helm so Jax defense queued in on the run. Not to mention they have the 4th best defense in the league if I heard correctly.

All they did was throw an extra guy or two in the box and dared us to beat them in the air....which we didnt.

We got the win. Now we get a week to prepare with TJ and Clemens.

drunkcookie
11-27-2011, 09:10 PM
If we try the same game plan against Atlanta, or any decent team for that matter, they will stack 8 or 9 in the box........and effectively tear us a new one.

I agree, but i don't "think" what we saw today was the game plan... When Yates came in, Kubiak had him throwing it and they got three points out of it... He just reeled him in come the 2nd half just to be safe...

Seeing it was a weak offense we were going up against I'm okay with it..but you're right, against a team with a good offense we've got to try to score..

Sent from my ryePhone 12G using Tapakeg

amazing80
11-27-2011, 09:12 PM
This is just premature, next week we will run our play book, gary already addressed this by saying he did not want Yates also getting injured since we did not have another qb on the roster today. He played conservative to keep him upright, he had confidence that our defense would keep the lead and they did.....IF THEY PLAY LIKE THIS next week then worry about it, but i think yates showed enough before the half to prove he can throw it just fine....he took more chances down field then Leinart did while he was in....yates will be ok

Speedy
11-27-2011, 09:13 PM
If we try the same game plan against Atlanta, or any decent team for that matter, they will stack 8 or 9 in the box........and effectively tear us a new one.

Well, I seriously doubt they'll go with that game plan. Atlanta, or any decent team, has the ability to put some points on the board. Jacksonville, not so much.

Though this game was about as ugly as it gets, I didn't have a problem basically putting it in the hands of the defense and not asking a QB who has never taken an NFL snap to do too much.

I hope that with a full week of 1st team reps Yates will be better prepared to improve on the 4.5 Y/A the Texans had today. I hope, because I was really disappointed that although Leinart was 10-13, he had a Y/A of 4.38. Those kind of numbers will shut the offense down, period! That's when you get the box stacked, your run game shut down, not converting 3rd downs, everything.

Scooter
11-27-2011, 09:15 PM
in regards to stacking the box, i think yates is actually an upgrade in that regard - with the caveat that kubiak provides him with the full playbook. if someone wants to find it, this preseason i knocked leinart as a dumpoff specialist and praised yates for his raw but downfield ability (saying i liked yates better but he wasnt ready yet). that's what yates has, he appears much more comfortable with long and intermediate routes ... a guy who wants to stand in the pocket and find that deep in or zone sit.

yates is looking long, leinart is dumps, and schaub is the healthy medium. given our offense's history with 15ish yard routes and play-action posts, and our success in that area, i think that should be a focus with yates. let the kid throw. he's more of a gunslinger, especially as a raw rookie, but we have the play-action for him to be successful doing so.

The Pencil Neck
11-27-2011, 09:16 PM
I had no problem with what happened today... besides the Leinart injury.

We had a 10 point lead. We had spent what we could of the past two weeks getting Leinart ready to play. Not Yates.

The Jaguars have a damned good defense but no offense. With a 10 point lead, we needed to just pound the ball and let our defense win the game. And they did.

We could not afford to lose this game against the Jags. And we won it.

Now...

We spend this next week preparing Yates and/or Kellen Clemens. We'll face a defense that's even stouter against the run than the Jaguars. And we're probably going to lose.

This is the game, against the Falcons, where we start giving Yates the ball to see what he can do and what he can't do so we can figure out how to use him to win games for us.

GP
11-27-2011, 09:16 PM
I bet Kubiak puckered up a bit because of the Jags tendency to hurt our starting QB today. He just saw Leinart get hurt, getting drilled into the ground, and he was NOT going to let Jax stack the box and end up blitzing Yeights and hurting HIM as well.

This was as close to bubble-wrapping a QB as we'll ever see. I think, more and more, Kubiak wanted to get the hell outta' Florida with at least one of his original 3 QBs standing and able to play next week.

He had the lead, he had the D, and JDR didn't switch QBs early enough. Simple math, and in a way it does make a lot of sense.

In short: I don't necessarily think Kubiak was afraid to let Yates sling the ball. He just didn't want to read a Richard Justice column tomorrow that berates him about why he endangered his only remaining QB.

After all, we had NO 3rd string QB today. Yates gets hurt today, it would look super embarrassing to trot out Owen Daniels the rest of the game...and maybe even LOSE because of it.

A lot worse things could happen to us other than not seeing Yates display his skill set. All in all, it was the prudent thing to do. It was smart.

The Pencil Neck
11-27-2011, 09:23 PM
In short: I don't necessarily think Kubiak was afraid to let Yates sling the ball. He just didn't want to read a Richard Justice column tomorrow that berates him about why he endangered his only remaining QB.

I don't think Kubiak cares what Richard Justice writes in his column.


After all, we had NO 3rd string QB today. Yates gets hurt today, it would look super embarrassing to trot out Owen Daniels the rest of the game...and maybe even LOSE because of it.

A lot worse things could happen to us other than not seeing Yates display his skill set. All in all, it was the prudent thing to do. It was smart.

^^^ This, I agree with.

DocBar
11-27-2011, 09:53 PM
Well, I seriously doubt they'll go with that game plan. Atlanta, or any decent team, has the ability to put some points on the board. Jacksonville, not so much.

Though this game was about as ugly as it gets, I didn't have a problem basically putting it in the hands of the defense and not asking a QB who has never taken an NFL snap to do too much.

I hope that with a full week of 1st team reps Yates will be better prepared to improve on the 4.5 Y/A the Texans had today. I hope, because I was really disappointed that although Leinart was 10-13, he had a Y/A of 4.38. Those kind of numbers will shut the offense down, period! That's when you get the box stacked, your run game shut down, not converting 3rd downs, everything.being better prepared doesn't mean ready to run the entire playbook. The guy's a very raw 3rd string rookie. I really hope Kubiak can dial in on what he does know and formulates a game plan that emphasizes that. It'll really boil down to Yate's knowledge of the playbook and his ability to read a por defense.

in regards to stacking the box, i think yates is actually an upgrade in that regard - with the caveat that kubiak provides him with the full playbook. if someone wants to find it, this preseason i knocked leinart as a dumpoff specialist and praised yates for his raw but downfield ability (saying i liked yates better but he wasnt ready yet). that's what yates has, he appears much more comfortable with long and intermediate routes ... a guy who wants to stand in the pocket and find that deep in or zone sit.

yates is looking long, leinart is dumps, and schaub is the healthy medium. given our offense's history with 15ish yard routes and play-action posts, and our success in that area, i think that should be a focus with yates. let the kid throw. he's more of a gunslinger, especially as a raw rookie, but we have the play-action for him to be successful doing so.Yates looked pretty good with pressure in his face. Altlanta can have a pretty good passrush. If he can burn them a few times, I bet they call off the dogs. Having said that, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the naked bootleg on our 1st offensive play.

A full week with the 1st team should yield dividends with AJ. I just don;t see Atlanta being able to cover him and Yates should be more comfortable with AJ by next Sunday. Hell, maybe AJ should have Yates spend the next week at his house with him.

Brisco_County
11-27-2011, 09:58 PM
I've done my fair share of criticizing Kubiak in the past, but he called this game just right. He wasn't counting on gaining yards with the run, he was burning clock and putting the game in the hands of the defense. It allowed him to escape with a W and a healthy QB.

thunderkyss
11-27-2011, 10:36 PM
If we try the same game plan against Atlanta, or any decent team for that matter, they will stack 8 or 9 in the box........and effectively tear us a new one.

What same game plan?

Leinart had options, he just didn't pull the trigger. The checkdowns aren't the game plan. They are safety valves for a rusty QB to gain confidence. There were receivers down field. He just didn't go for them.

I would imagine the game plan with Yates will be similar. However, I don't think Yates will be as "conservative" with his throws.

If we ever get a two score lead, Gary is going to go into run mode, but (just like the Titans & Tampa Bay game) he'll take shots down the field when appropriate.


We are not the Packers or the Patriots. If we try to act like it, chances are we'll start turning the ball over. NOW, is not the time to find out.

Now is the time to rack up the small successes (completions, first downs, T.O.P., games) get this kid ready for the play-offs.

steelbtexan
11-27-2011, 10:41 PM
I've done my fair share of criticizing Kubiak in the past, but he called this game just right. He wasn't counting on gaining yards with the run, he was burning clock and putting the game in the hands of the defense. It allowed him to escape with a W and a healthy QB.

^^^^^
This

thunderkyss
11-27-2011, 10:43 PM
I remember playing the Redskins last year, early in the season.

Kyle Shanahan had Donovan McNabb doing 3-step drops on every pass play the entire first half. The result was quick slants, quick outs, little crossing patterns, and it got the ball into the hands of the Redskins WRs and TEs and RBs.

That's what you do, to get a QB some confidence and to slow down a pass rush, and you mix in the run. The Redskins got away from that formula in the second half...trying to run the ball with Portis...and it cost them the win.

This is a time to use 4 WR and even motion out the RB and use 5 WR sets, like someone mentioned. 3-step drop, which prevents the pass rush from effectively getting to the QB. An excellent plan for a guy like Yaits, IMO.

There is a way to overcome problems, but I fear Kubiak's solutions have always been to rely on playmakers to make plays rather than crafting a solid, exploitive game plan that actually works.

It took us the Raiders game to figure out how to play without Andre Johnson. It will likely take us this game, and maybe the Atlanta game, to figure out how to play without Schaub. We sure as hell were not ready to put Yaytes into the game in place of Leinart.

Great Post. Playing devil's advocate; Yates is not McNabb. Yates is the 3rd string QB & maybe (just maybe) he doesn't have the full play-book right now.

The kid did not look like he was out of place or that the game was too big (or too fast) for him. He didn't have a problem throwing the ball. Next week, they'll probably work on those plays you mentioned & losen the leash a little.

DocBar
11-27-2011, 10:43 PM
What same game plan?

Leinart had options, he just didn't pull the trigger. The checkdowns aren't the game plan. They are safety valves for a rusty QB to gain confidence. There were receivers down field. He just didn't go for them.

I would imagine the game plan with Yates will be similar. However, I don't think Yates will be as "conservative" with his throws.

If we ever get a two score lead, Gary is going to go into run mode, but (just like the Titans & Tampa Bay game) he'll take shots down the field when appropriate.


We are not the Packers or the Patriots. If we try to act like it, chances are we'll start turning the ball over. NOW, is not the time to find out.

Now is the time to rack up the small successes (completions, first downs, T.O.P., games) get this kid ready for the play-offs.MSR. Well put, TK. Going forward, I see this as Kubiak's "moment" where he can either solidify his rep as an offensive and QB guru or prove that he's overrated at both. Yates showed poise and presence in the pocket today, and looks like he has some tools to work with. This is no time for "woe is me". This is the time to get behind your team and pull as hard as you can for them. Oh yeah, remind Kubes to use Tate if he's healthy.

thunderkyss
11-27-2011, 10:48 PM
in regards to stacking the box, i think yates is actually an upgrade in that regard - with the caveat that kubiak provides him with the full playbook. if someone wants to find it, this preseason i knocked leinart as a dumpoff specialist and praised yates for his raw but downfield ability (saying i liked yates better but he wasnt ready yet). that's what yates has, he appears much more comfortable with long and intermediate routes ... a guy who wants to stand in the pocket and find that deep in or zone sit.

yates is looking long, leinart is dumps, and schaub is the healthy medium. given our offense's history with 15ish yard routes and play-action posts, and our success in that area, i think that should be a focus with yates. let the kid throw. he's more of a gunslinger, especially as a raw rookie, but we have the play-action for him to be successful doing so.

Even David Carr was throwing the ball downfield until someone ripped him a new one for throwing too many INTs. I don't know if Leinart had that problem, but he knew if he didn't screw it up we were going to win the game.

I didn't expect to see him stretch the field, not so early in the game, maybe in the second half, but he never got that chance.

We've got 6 days of Kubiak stressing how important it is that Yates doesn't turn the ball over.. then we'll see what he does vs Atlanta. Hopefully he does a better job of finding the right balance of giving us a chance to win & playing it safe........ but we'll see.

thunderkyss
11-27-2011, 10:51 PM
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the naked bootleg on our 1st offensive play.


3 games in a row?

No way.

DocBar
11-27-2011, 10:53 PM
3 games in a row?

No way.Wanna make a side bet? :D

thunderkyss
11-27-2011, 10:58 PM
Wanna make a side bet? :D

My Avatar is off limits.... whatcha got in mind?

GuerillaBlack
11-27-2011, 11:04 PM
being better prepared doesn't mean ready to run the entire playbook. The guy's a very raw 3rd string rookie. I really hope Kubiak can dial in on what he does know and formulates a game plan that emphasizes that. It'll really boil down to Yate's knowledge of the playbook and his ability to read a por defense.

Yates looked pretty good with pressure in his face. Altlanta can have a pretty good passrush. If he can burn them a few times, I bet they call off the dogs. Having said that, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the naked bootleg on our 1st offensive play.

Agreed. Yates has the beat arm. I'd like a shot down the field on the first play in the Atlanta game.

A full week with the 1st team should yield dividends with AJ. I just don;t see Atlanta being able to cover him and Yates should be more comfortable with AJ by next Sunday. Hell, maybe AJ should have Yates spend the next week at his house with him.

No hobo.

DocBar
11-27-2011, 11:05 PM
Agreed. Yates has the beat arm. I'd like a shot down the field on the first play in the Atlanta game.



No hobo.I don't get it. :confused:

CloakNNNdagger
11-28-2011, 10:09 AM
If you are trying to burn the clock, aren't you still supposed to try to move the ball to score? Seven points, no matter who your opponent (e.g., Foster fumble return, Jags dropped EZ TD pass) can happen in an instant, sometimes in just one play. Jones ran for 166 yds. Our 3rd down efficiency was 13% (2/15).

HJam72
11-28-2011, 10:14 AM
If you are trying to burn the clock, aren't you still supposed to try to move the ball to score? Seven points, no matter who your opponent (e.g., Foster fumble return, Jags dropped EZ TD pass) can happen in an instant, sometimes in just one play. Jones ran for 166 yds. Our 3rd down efficiency was 13% (2/15).

Normally I would certainly agree, but remember that their offense scored a total of 6 points on us with all of that going on. Their O can't score on us, but their D can. Hopefully, teams won't be saying that about OUR O pretty soon.

thunderkyss
11-28-2011, 10:22 AM
If you are trying to burn the clock, aren't you still supposed to try to move the ball to score? Seven points, no matter who your opponent (e.g., Foster fumble return, Jags dropped EZ TD pass) can happen in an instant, sometimes in just one play. Jones ran for 166 yds. Our 3rd down efficiency was 13% (2/15).

No doubt about it.

If Leinart had stayed in the game, I'm sure we'd have continued to play the way we did against Tennessee, Cleveland, & Tampa Bay. Run the ball, move the chains, take a shot every now & then.

But with TJ Yates, they know better than we do how prepared he is.... limiting turnover opportunities was the gamble he took & it paid off.

Had Mercedes Lewis caught that ball, it would have been a different game & a different game-plan.

drunkcookie
11-28-2011, 10:27 AM
Had Mercedes Lewis caught that ball, it would have been a different game & a different game-plan.
Agree 100per$.01


Sent from my ryePhone 12G using Tapakeg

beerlover
11-28-2011, 10:30 AM
No doubt about it.

If Leinart had stayed in the game, I'm sure we'd have continued to play the way we did against Tennessee, Cleveland, & Tampa Bay. Run the ball, move the chains, take a shot every now & then.

But with TJ Yates, they know better than we do how prepared he is.... limiting turnover opportunities was the gamble he took & it paid off.

Had Mercedes Lewis caught that ball, it would have been a different game & a different game-plan.

Mercedes are over rated :cool:

thunderkyss
11-28-2011, 10:32 AM
Mercedes are over rated :cool:

Isn't that a girls name?

:cow:

euro-Texan
11-28-2011, 11:14 AM
Isn't that a girls name?

:cow:

Well kind of. It's a strippers name

Corrosion
11-28-2011, 12:22 PM
Jax defense is pretty good .... add in their stacking the box and this is what you get.


I think the game situation - a 10 point lead against a bad offensive team with your 3rd string QB in the game dictated the conservative playcalls.

Yates didnt get sacked or throw an INT .... No mistakes and the result was a W. Cant really complain about that.


The bigger question is where do they go from here? Does Yates become the starter ? Do they bring in a veteran ? Favre and Warner are out of the discussion .... its possible Rosenfels returns to the Texans pending he passes a physical and clears waivers.

Who else is out there that could come in and produce in a couple weeks ?! Maybe Jeff Garcia .... I cant seem to find a list of current FA's.

CloakNNNdagger
11-28-2011, 11:15 PM
Our run game was ineffective because we didn't have a pass game that kept the D honest. I can accept the "game plan" for this particular game.......because we won. But I am not naive enough to believe that will work with an opposing team with a better balanced D and halfway decent O. I hope that Kubiak does not give way to naivete and a post game "It's on me" conference.

TejasTom
11-29-2011, 12:11 AM
3 games in a row?

No way.

I was surprised at 2 weeks in a row. But why not, until they stop it.

BigBull17
11-29-2011, 12:19 PM
Look at New England man, every game whether they are up by 14-30 they continue to throw it and try to score points.

They also dont stop anybody for the most part. They have to run it up.

BigBull17
11-29-2011, 12:24 PM
I agree, but i don't "think" what we saw today was the game plan... When Yates came in, Kubiak had him throwing it and they got three points out of it... He just reeled him in come the 2nd half just to be safe...

Seeing it was a weak offense we were going up against I'm okay with it..but you're right, against a team with a good offense we've got to try to score..

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They knew 10 points was an insurmountable lead for Jax. Was very smart to let him run a quick no huddle at the 2 minute mark because the jags had to expect them to let the half end. Got their cheapy points and rode the wave.

drunkcookie
11-29-2011, 12:54 PM
Our run game was ineffective because we didn't have a pass game that kept the D honest. I can accept the "game plan" for this particular game.......because we won. But I am not naive enough to believe that will work with an opposing team with a better balanced D and halfway decent O. I hope that Kubiak does not give way to naivete and a post game "It's on me" conference.

Lol, I don't think that even the biggest Texans homer is naive enough to think that game plan would work, and i sure as hell don't think Gariak is that naive...

And it's funny you mention an "it's on me" press conference, because when asked about the second half in his presser yesterday, Kubes actually said "it's on me" lol, and explained how he didn't put the offense in a good position to do well... But i think he knew he wasn't calling it great in the second half, and chose to just play it safe...

I think that's also why we didn't see Tate more in the 2nd half, because though Foster had ball-handling issues Sunday, that's really not an issue with him when looking at his track record, but an issue with Tate... I think not running with Tate may be something he felt he failed at as well, tossing that under the "it's on me" umbrella... Maybe he should have trusted Tate a little more...

But back to the original point, no one is "that" naive (or am i being naive here?)! That game plan we saw in the 2nd half Sunday will not work, which is why it will not be the game-plan this Sunday (not in "all-caps" because it is a correct statement ;)... Great reply yesterday, CND, just remembered to rep you for it)... The only reason it worked Sunday was because we were up 10 pts against a horrid offense when it went into effect...


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The Pencil Neck
11-29-2011, 01:09 PM
Our run game was ineffective because we didn't have a pass game that kept the D honest. I can accept the "game plan" for this particular game.......because we won. But I am not naive enough to believe that will work with an opposing team with a better balanced D and halfway decent O. I hope that Kubiak does not give way to naivete and a post game "It's on me" conference.

The Jacksonville D didn't really fear Leinart going deep on them and Leinart really didn't try too hard. There were good plays call when Leinart was in there where he could have stretched the field a bit more.

When Yates came in, I don't think Kubes knew how bad Leinart was hurt. And so he let Yates go back and wing a few and Yates did a good job.

But then after halftime, you've got Owen Daniels taking snaps on the sideline just in case Yates goes down.

Kubes still allowed him to try to make some throws. (The passes to AJ, for instance.) And Yates showed some spark. But then Kubes realized that he could ice the whole damned game and get out with Yates healthy, and that's the course he took.

I think it was a good call on Kubes' part. My wife was hating the play-calling but I was totally fine with it. It would have been great if our running game could have gotten some first downs in that instance but we got out with the W.

I don't know what Kubes is going to do in the Atlanta game. I expect him to find the things Yates feels most comfy with and build a gameplan around that. I'm not going to be surprised if Kubes treats this game as a test and pulls out some stops to see what Yates is capable of with real bullets flying.

iLoveTexans
11-29-2011, 07:17 PM
I think we miss lawrence vickers a lot. James casey didn't look all that great today.

I don't think Vickers is all that great. In fact i think he clogs up the lanes! Look at previous games when he's in and you'll see that foster loses 1 yard or gains nothing when Vickers is in, this also happens with Tate. Just my OP..

CloakNNNdagger
11-29-2011, 07:20 PM
I don't think Vickers is all that great. In fact i think he clogs up the lanes! Look at previous games when he's in and you'll see that foster loses 1 yard or gains nothing when Vickers is in, this also happens with Tate. Just my OP..

Just the opposite of what I've observed.

Rey
11-29-2011, 07:23 PM
I don't think Vickers is all that great. In fact i think he clogs up the lanes! Look at previous games when he's in and you'll see that foster loses 1 yard or gains nothing when Vickers is in, this also happens with Tate. Just my OP..

Vickers has been really good the times that I have watched him.

He is a really good lead blocker in this offense because he has a little speed on him and is able to get up on the LB's really quickly.

iLoveTexans
11-29-2011, 07:24 PM
Just the opposite of what I've observed.

Really? I thought he sucked ever since that Raiders game!

drunkcookie
11-29-2011, 07:49 PM
Really? I thought he sucked ever since that Raiders game!

That was no doubt a big pass he dropped in that Raiders game, but it shouldn't take from the fact that he's done a damn good job blocking...

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iLoveTexans
11-29-2011, 08:20 PM
That was no doubt a big pass he dropped in that Raiders game, but it shouldn't take from the fact that he's done a damn good job blocking...

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I ment that since I saw him that game I've always thought he sucked, when i see him trying to block, I don't know why but it looks like he's clogging the lanes! My brother notices too but i guess it's just us..

DocBar
11-29-2011, 08:30 PM
Just the opposite of what I've observed.Vickers hasn't stood out to me all that much. His biggest contribution, that I've seen is his game losing drop against the Raiders. Vickers has done OK, but he's no Leach or Thor.

Rey
11-29-2011, 08:44 PM
The Jacksonville D didn't really fear Leinart going deep on them and Leinart really didn't try too hard. There were good plays call when Leinart was in there where he could have stretched the field a bit more.

When Yates came in, I don't think Kubes knew how bad Leinart was hurt. And so he let Yates go back and wing a few and Yates did a good job.

But then after halftime, you've got Owen Daniels taking snaps on the sideline just in case Yates goes down.

Kubes still allowed him to try to make some throws. (The passes to AJ, for instance.) And Yates showed some spark. But then Kubes realized that he could ice the whole damned game and get out with Yates healthy, and that's the course he took.

I think it was a good call on Kubes' part. My wife was hating the play-calling but I was totally fine with it. It would have been great if our running game could have gotten some first downs in that instance but we got out with the W.

I don't know what Kubes is going to do in the Atlanta game. I expect him to find the things Yates feels most comfy with and build a gameplan around that. I'm not going to be surprised if Kubes treats this game as a test and pulls out some stops to see what Yates is capable of with real bullets flying.

Maybe I missed something but I don't remember Yates chunking the ball down field a whole lot.

badboy
11-29-2011, 08:47 PM
Look at New England man, every game whether they are up by 14-30 they continue to throw it and try to score points.would they if they were starting a rookie 3rd round QB?

76Texan
11-29-2011, 10:28 PM
Maybe I missed something but I don't remember Yates chunking the ball down field a whole lot.

The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.

I don't see anything wrong with Leinart's decision on where to go with the ball.
Sorry, but it seems to me some people are simply stuck with the past and/or influenced by some of the media's bias.

76Texan
11-29-2011, 10:44 PM
The Jaguars had a very good defensive game plan against us. They never over-pursued and allowed any cutback lanes. They're used to our zone blocking scheme and played disciplined football today. Every time Arian tried to put a foot in the ground to cut back he was cutting back right into a defender. They did a good job on us today.

^^^I agree with the above!

Our blocking overall wasn't very good either; and Foster didn't help the out at times.
Oh, and also AJ whiffed on a block where Foster fumbled the ball (he carried the ball as if it was a hot potato) while Walter whiffed on a block on the opposite side of the field on another stretch play.

The Jags didn't really stack the box.
They played 2-deep safety a bit more than us (I want to say quite a bit, but I haven't count them so I can't be 100% sure.)

We should have had a better running game than the Jags, but we didn't.
And don't tell me that we're scare of Gabbert! :slapfight:

Carr Bombed
11-30-2011, 01:24 AM
edit

ObsiWan
11-30-2011, 01:48 AM
The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.

I don't see anything wrong with Leinart's decision on where to go with the ball.
Sorry, but it seems to me some people are simply stuck with the past and/or influenced by some of the media's bias.

First, the scripted business is a red herring. That has nothing to do with the QB's decision to - or not to - go for the WR running the deeper pattern. And of all people, I don't have to tell you that patterns are run in groupings; i.e., medium or deep outs are paired with fly or post patterns to make the safeties commit. I'm sure you know the thought process. My beef was that Leinart never took a shot deep downfield to make the safeties back off. I mean, do you really consider that 14-yd pass to AJ or the TD to Breessen a "deep" pattern?
Seriously?
C'mon man.

While I have to confess with being pleased Leinart never turned the ball over, I'm somewhat disappointed that he never really stretched the field.

The Pencil Neck
11-30-2011, 01:57 AM
Maybe I missed something but I don't remember Yates chunking the ball down field a whole lot.

I don't see where I said that he did.

GP
11-30-2011, 02:06 AM
I'm surprised Kubiak even had Yates doing any type of "real" pass plays just before halftime. I bet Kubiak, on his way to the locker room at half, was thinking "Geez, why did I do that? For a lousy 2-minute drill opportunity? I need to keep the Jags the hell away from Yates."

He goes to the team, says "Florida is a graveyard for my QBs. Wade, Bill, Vance...can you guys get us out of here with what we got on the board already? OK then. This season is different. It's going to continue to be different. It's not that I mistrust TJ. I just want to get the hell out of Florida and have a QB to work with. Alright? OK, let's go get Del Rio fired...."Keep choppin' wood" on 3, 1---2---3...KEEP CHOPPIN' WOOD!"

And with that, the entire second half was a running play or an immediate or delayed throw to a RB. And Del Rio gets fired, we still have Yates to work with, and it was a "W" for the good guys.

thunderkyss
11-30-2011, 08:49 AM
The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.


I like the "Check Down King" that's what this offense is made for. Run, check down, bust their ass with the play action.

Leinart did exactly what he was supposed to do.

Like TPN said, we scored 17 points in the first half on the road against what everyone is saying is a pretty good defense.

Yeah, he got help from special teams, defense, & 5 ypc running game. But that is exactly what we've been saying since Matt Schaub got hurt.

He didn't need to be a world beater. Manage the game, don't lose it.

He did exactly what he was supposed to.

Rey
11-30-2011, 08:56 AM
I don't see where I said that he did.

Well you made mention of Leinart not stretching the field and then you said Yates came in and was winging it.

Maybe I'm just crazy.

thunderkyss
11-30-2011, 08:57 AM
While I have to confess with being pleased Leinart never turned the ball over, I'm somewhat disappointed that he never really stretched the field.

He didn't even make it out of the 1st half.

We don't know if anyone was open on any deeper routes. We can't see that. Like I said earlier, the defense played a great game, the special teams played a great game, we knew this was going to be the case going in & Matt wasn't going to have to force anything.

Just manage the game & get a win on the road (a place we haven't won since 2006 with Schaub or Sage (& you know he ain't scared to sling it))

5 wins in a row, never happened before. I think Leinart did his part & if he made it to the second half, we probably score 30.

thunderkyss
11-30-2011, 09:01 AM
I'm surprised Kubiak even had Yates doing any type of "real" pass plays just before halftime. I bet Kubiak, on his way to the locker room at half, was thinking "Geez, why did I do that? For a lousy 2-minute drill opportunity? I need to keep the Jags the hell away from Yates."


I think it was said that at the time, he thought Leinart was coming back. They had no idea what was wrong with Leinart at the time, he looked fine as he came off the field & told the coach he was in trouble.

They let Leinart go see the medical staff & threw Yates in the game. We were on their 45 yard line with less than 2:00 minutes in the game. Kubiak saw it as an opportunity to score, Yates looked great out of the gate & he kept his foot on the gas.

As this was going on, Leinart goes to the locker room, an assistant tells Kubiak it looks like Matt is done..... Kubiak's butt puckers & he gets extremely protective of the only QB active for the day.

Makes sense to me.

Rey
11-30-2011, 10:05 AM
The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.

I don't see anything wrong with Leinart's decision on where to go with the ball.
Sorry, but it seems to me some people are simply stuck with the past and/or influenced by some of the media's bias.

Couldn't agree more.

76Texan
11-30-2011, 11:33 AM
The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.

I don't see anything wrong with Leinart's decision on where to go with the ball.
Sorry, but it seems to me some people are simply stuck with the past and/or influenced by some of the media's bias.

First, the scripted business is a red herring. That has nothing to do with the QB's decision to - or not to - go for the WR running the deeper pattern. And of all people, I don't have to tell you that patterns are run in groupings; i.e., medium or deep outs are paired with fly or post patterns to make the safeties commit. I'm sure you know the thought process. My beef was that Leinart never took a shot deep downfield to make the safeties back off. I mean, do you really consider that 14-yd pass to AJ or the TD to Breessen a "deep" pattern?
Seriously?
C'mon man.

While I have to confess with being pleased Leinart never turned the ball over, I'm somewhat disappointed that he never really stretched the field.

Like TK said, the WCO is built around the short passing game and running the ball. Occasionally, we would go deep.
It also depends on the opponent that we play. If Kubiak feel like we need to score against certain opponent, he would open the playbook more.

Yes, I understand pass patterns. And that was why I said I don't have any problem with where Leinart went with the ball. There was one occasion where I can't see deep (like TK mentioned) but I think the coverage was there.

You make me work, LOL; I checked a few games from last year and these are the results:

(Colts week 1)
- 53-yd PI Hayden on Walter (I mentioned this play in the 2-man route thread).
- 18-yd pass to AJ (who gained a couple more YAC) in the second qtr (on this play, JJ ran a deep route to take away the safety, the Texans then inserted AJ underneath.)
- 19yd pass to Walter who ran 3 more yards to the end zone (wide open).
- Schaub threw an ill-advised pass to AJ on a one-man route (double coverage) that was intercepted by the safety Bullitt). Schaub shouldn't have thrown this pass, EVER!

(Redskins week 2)
In the first qtr, Schaub completed a 16-yd pass to Walter who gained a couple more YAC.
In the second, Schaub completed an 18-yd pass to AJ.
And this one ended up a high-scoring affair.

(Cowboys game week 3 last year.)
In the first half, the only attempt Schaub had for over 14 yard was a 17 yard incompletion to AJ.

(Raiders week 4)17-yd attempt to JJ, who dropped the ball.
That was it!

(Giants game week 5)
- Behind by 7, Schaub tried a 19-yd pass to AJ and was intercepted.
- Behind by 14 late in the first, Schaub tried another 19 yarder to OD that was batted away by LB Goff who ran with OD.

2 mins into the second quarter, the Texans were behind by 21; still Schaub didn't attempt anything longer (than 14)

I think that's enough of a sample, at least for now!

The Pencil Neck
11-30-2011, 06:20 PM
Well you made mention of Leinart not stretching the field and then you said Yates came in and was winging it.

Maybe I'm just crazy.

Well, you ARE just crazy but I think this came from the definition of "winging it".

I was just saying that Yates came out throwing (after that initial run by Arian). Not that he was throwing it far down the field, just that he was throwing it instead of handing off. And the throws weren't flair passes to the RBs or bubble screens or anything like that. He got that nice crossing pattern to OD for 24 and a nice out to JJ on the sidelines.

In his first 4 throws, Yates went 3/4 for 39 yards (before the intentional grounding penalty.)

76Texan
12-01-2011, 02:09 PM
Here's confirmation on why the running game wasn't working well.
It was a little of the line, a little of Fostr, and a little of the Jags D staying discipline and containing the gaps.

Duane Brown
(on how to get the running game going again) “Yeah, we just got a little bit out of sync [against Jacksonville]. The line and the running backs got a little out of sync our last game with where a hole should’ve opened up at. We didn’t get on our blocks as cleanly as we could have, and we kind of forced some cutbacks that shouldn’t have been cut back there. Just keep working at it and every day, just keep trying to polish this thing up. We’ve still got a lot of confidence in the running game. The coaches do, too, and that’s our first goal, to establish it, so we’ll be fine.”

infantrycak
12-01-2011, 03:33 PM
It looked to me like the Texans OL was taking a much shallower angle in the Jags game. Looked back and compared to the Titans game. The OL comes off almost running parallel to the LOS. Against the Jags they were coming off a lot closer to 45 degrees.