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View Full Version : Richard Justice's comments on Chris Palmer on 610 This Morning


AlexVanderpool
04-27-2005, 03:45 PM
I dont know if this has been posted, but on the bench this morning justice commented that:

-at the end of the season, the powers that be (mcnair, cass, and capers?) sat Chris Palmer down and had a intervention-type meeting with him to do whatever it takes to drastically improve the blocking schemes in the offensive line. Justice later said that he heard palmer say off the record that he didnt feel like the blocking was bad last season and that Carr did not get sacked all that much.

If this is true, I really feel bad for Carr...

TheOgre
04-27-2005, 03:52 PM
Weird. I just posted in a thread on this very topic. I think Palmer is on the hot seat this season. If the offense doesn't improve drastically and Carr takes a pounding, I expect him gone.

barzilla
04-27-2005, 03:55 PM
The blocking was not that bad? I guess that was a figment of my imagination when I saw Carr running around against Indy twice and against Cleveland in particular. :heh:

Grid
04-27-2005, 03:56 PM
Ok... I dunno the context it was put in when palmer said it.. but yah.. if Carr gets manhandled again.. we will start a dang picket line at reliant to get Palmer fired heh.

Dime
04-27-2005, 04:09 PM
If CARR gets sacked 20+ times in 6 games OR he is hurt from someone sacking him, I think Palmer might be enjoying new job.

F-minus67
04-27-2005, 04:34 PM
Considering we basically had a rookie LT, the starting right side of the line had a ton of injuries and McKinney. Not to mention that they were all learning the zone blocking scheme.

El Tejano
04-27-2005, 04:38 PM
Or how about the game against Minn when Carr to a good beating from a very poor defense.

keyfro
04-27-2005, 04:50 PM
i'm sorry but when your QB is throwing a fit on the side lines because the lineman aren't giving him 3 seconds to throw the ball you have blocking problems...depending on who you ask there is two players that are at fault and those are mckinney and wand...i personally think our tackle depth is for **** if i was casserly i'd bring in like 5 OT's just add depth and competition at that position...not for the starters but for the back-ups...hodgden will hopefully take over the back-up center job from washington or one of the guards like brown, weary, or evans...unfortunatly we didn't get a tackle in the draft to develop

infantrycak
04-27-2005, 05:06 PM
Very troubling if true- -hey Palmer, the 1st step to recovery is admitting the problem. (You too McKinney).

texan279
04-27-2005, 05:07 PM
-at the end of the season, the powers that be (mcnair, cass, and capers?) sat Chris Palmer down and had a intervention-type meeting with him to do whatever it takes to drastically improve the blocking schemes in the offensive line. Justice later said that he heard palmer say off the record that he didnt feel like the blocking was bad last season and that Carr did not get sacked all that much.

Maybe Capers should stick Palmer under center and then let's see how good he thinks the O line is... :heh:

U4ikrob
04-27-2005, 05:46 PM
Really like the last one - I agree - I bet if Palmer sat in the pocket 3 or 4 times and got sacked during a practice session - he might be prompted to do things a little better and faster to get the line up to serviceable shape for real games and put in alot more 3 and 5 step drops.

IMO - New scheme or not - those guys are paid good money to do one job for the most part - Protect the QB. They have failed miserably for 3 years now and DC is the guy paying for it. IT wont be long before one or the other breaks. DC cant keep dodging hard shots forever - IF they dont step up the protection a whole lot and make progress, eventually somebody is going to stick DC so hard he's going to be injured - and injured bad. Then the line will have nobody to blame anymore but the guy in the mirror.

Honestly I think they need to bring in every LT that wasnt drafted this past year and have them go thru drills and see if there isnt some bodies we can pick up for depth.

SESupergenius
04-27-2005, 06:23 PM
Can we deduce that since Palmer is stating that we have no problems with the offensive line, that this is the reason we hav not upgraded it? Our number one problem last year was protecting Carr, we still have not solved it IMHO. Shouldn't we expect more of the same this year? And trust me, you can go ahead an throw Pitts into this problem too, he's as much to blame as any of them.

texan279
04-27-2005, 06:37 PM
Can we deduce that since Palmer is stating that we no problems with the offensive line that is the reason we havn't upgraded it? Our number one problem last year was protecting Carr, we still have not solved it IMHO. Shouldn't we expect more of the same this year? And trust me, you can go ahead an throw Pitts into this problem too, he's as much to blame as any of them.

But if McNair, Casserly, and Capers sat Palmer down and told him about the problems with the O line, they know that there is a problem and haven't done anything about it either...one would figure if those 3 realize there is a problem and Palmer is too blind to see it or just won't do anything about it, Capers or Cass should have done something about it already or give Palmer the boot...

clandestin
04-27-2005, 06:39 PM
I'm wondering how Pendry fits into these conversations. If I recall correctly Pendry was brought in as the new OL coach to implement the zone-blocking scheme.

Davis37
04-27-2005, 06:40 PM
But if McNair, Casserly, and Capers sat Palmer down and told him about the problems with the O line, they know that there is a problem and haven't done anything about it either...one would figure if those 3 realize there is a problem and Palmer is too blind to see it or just won't do anything about it, Capers or Cass should have done something about it already or give Palmer the boot...

I think that next offseason Palmer will be gone, maybe Vangio (sp?) too. I sure hope so.

infantrycak
04-27-2005, 06:41 PM
Can we deduce that since Palmer is stating that we no problems with the offensive line that is the reason we havn't upgraded it? Our number one problem last year was protecting Carr, we still have not solved it IMHO. Shouldn't we expect more of the same this year? And trust me, you can go ahead an throw Pitts into this problem too, he's as much to blame as any of them.

I'd say we can deduce from the off-season moves and the reported meeting with Palmer that Casserly, Capers and Pendry think the problem is not the players it is the line schemes & play selection called by Palmer. The big question would appear to me to be whether Palmer has been suggested he change the schemes (his head on the block if he doesn't change enough or there isn't enough improvement) or directed to change the schemes (someone else on the hot seat with McNair).

HoustonHarley
04-27-2005, 06:52 PM
I don't know about most of you, but I haven't missed a home game yet and every game I can predict at least 85% of the play calls. I played ball for a number of years, but in no way am I a football genius. If I can predict that many calls, where does the problem lie?

Vinny
04-27-2005, 07:00 PM
I made a post about this situation over a month ago. The tweak is on. Hopefully we are changing our protection schemes. I hear we have a bit of internal differences of opinions within the coaching staff on how we call and use our protections. I think we will see a big difference this next year. Palmer doesn't have much of a choice but to tweak his protections imo.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=7437&page=1&pp=30

SESupergenius
04-27-2005, 07:01 PM
I'd say we can deduce from the off-season moves....You mean lack of off-season moves on the offensive side of the ball right?
:confused:

SheTexan
04-27-2005, 07:03 PM
I don't know about most of you, but I haven't missed a home game yet and every game I can predict at least 85% of the play calls. I played ball for a number of years, but in no way am I a football genius. If I can predict that many calls, where does the problem lie?

I've never played football in my life, obviously :) and I predicted 90% of the offensive calls last year. My daughter, who knows SQUAT about football, ask me why they did the same thing over and over again. I've watched football for over 50 years, but my daughter goes for the fun. If she noticed how crappy the play calling was, then I can assure you, if was pretty pitiful!!

Grid
04-27-2005, 07:11 PM
well if Palmer starts making bad calls.. and Carr starts getting roughed up.. is someone gonna step on his neck? or are they gonna let it keep going?

I just dont want to see Carr suffer through another year of bull**** cause our O-coordinator is a blind twerp.

tacoman_j
04-27-2005, 07:13 PM
What happened last year??? Did we play a lot of 3,4,5 reciever sets like the rams?? Are people on this board calling for more max protection set? What's the solution to Carr's sack totals.

Honoring Earl 34
04-27-2005, 07:36 PM
:woot What this means is the expansion label has been peeled off and folks are now being held accountable .

uhcougar08
04-27-2005, 08:50 PM
What happened last year??? Did we play a lot of 3,4,5 reciever sets like the rams?? Are people on this board calling for more max protection set? What's the solution to Carr's sack totals.

I think it maybe our tight end formations. From what I hear on here, it sounds like if we get Joppru on the field, then the defenses now start guessing, instead of already knowing the plays before DC says "HUT".

outofhnd
04-27-2005, 09:28 PM
Thank you cougar!

The TE shuffle is our achilles heel. If They knew Miller only comes in on passing situations, they knew to bring everyone in a pass rush. An everydown TE will do wonders for Carr's sack total next year. "In Joppru We Trust" However I hope they bring in a lot of young tight ends into camp and see if we can find a good one.

TexanExile
04-27-2005, 10:14 PM
if Carr gets manhandled again.. we will start a dang picket line at reliant to get Palmer fired heh.

Finally, a line that'll do something to protect David Carr! :heh:

I just can't believe Palmer would've said something so stupid. No way that's accurate. But if it is, I'll fly home to join that picket line, boys.

Davis37
04-27-2005, 10:17 PM
Finally, a line that'll do something to protect David Carr! :heh:

I just can't believe Palmer would've said something so stupid. No way that's accurate. But if it is, I'll fly home to join that picket line, boys.

Thats funny! good one

infantrycak
04-27-2005, 10:55 PM
You mean lack of off-season moves on the offensive side of the ball right?
:confused:

Yes, how about responding to the rest of the post?

dalemurphy
04-27-2005, 11:05 PM
You mean lack of off-season moves on the offensive side of the ball right?
:confused:


The issue with Palmer is not the talent at OT. Instead, you can look to the first Indy game. Seth Wand was given absolutely no help on Freeney that first quarter. An offensive coach with a good gameplan would have implented a strategy which focused on blocking Freeney's pass rush. He's their one true playmaker on defense and was lined up on our first year starter. If you go back and watch that game, a RB chipped him twice, I think, and both of those plays were very effective.

Just because you have 5 eligible receivers each play doesn't mean you must send all 5 out on patterns. Steve Spurrier style offense doesn't get it done in the NFL. I imagine that was what much of this conversation with Palmer was about, and I am glad to hear that it took place.

Porky
04-27-2005, 11:20 PM
I have been a Palmer supporter, but I'm at the end of my rope. If there is not significant progress made to open holes for the RB's (will someone please cut off the backside pursuit for a change), and most importantly, in making the neccessary changes to protect Carr, then I say dump Palmer, and the whole lot of them, as they are all to blame. A pox on all of their houses should that happen.

keyfro
04-27-2005, 11:20 PM
well joe pendry has been a good o-line coach for years in the league...as for fangio i don't honestly know that much about his record...if they let vic go i would say hoke needs to be the new d. coordinator...as for the new o. coordinator...who knows...seems like it's always harder to find a good offensive coach than it is a defensive one

jacquescas
04-28-2005, 04:31 AM
unless someone gets cut in the june 1st post rookie draft purge, but i dont see anyone we go for, very few lineman get cut.

Ibar_Harry
04-28-2005, 05:37 AM
If as posted the statments concerning Palmer are true, then this is one of the most inept organizations I have seen. As a manager having explained to an employee what has to be done, the employee says I don't see the problem he should have been fired on the spot. Wait one more year Vinny! People are crazy. I'm laughing so hard its not even funny, because almost everything I have said about this coaching staff and the players in many ways is coming true. Its tragic, because this ball club and its players have been totally mismanaged in my opinion. I have stated we will have to empliment another 5 year plan. A player can't make a mistake in this organization, but a coach can exhibit total disregard of his evaluations can continue on as he pleases. And you wonder why the older key players say its time to move on. Sorry, but the organization is very sick and it will take another 2 or 3 years to clear the coaches out. I think we will be lucky to win 3 or 4 games this year. You chided me for the Titans and look at what they got. Many think they did exceeding well in the draft. I think they stand a good change to beat us, because of the QB and the coaching. Those of you who think we will get two wins from them without a struggle are just blowing smoke. Ladies and Gentlemen we have major problems and we need a whole lot of good coaching and I just don't see that happening. I really wish it wasn't the case. Parcells may be a you know what - and I really don't like him at all - but he does know what he's doing. AG might even become next year's most valueable player. Wouldn't that be a hoot. I still say the injury bug decimated any plans this ball club had. We have yet to recover totally from them. That is just bad luck and I don't think its the coaches fault, but what is, however, is the inability to recognize the problem and to begin to move forward with a new plan. Oh, well, good night and god bless the Texans.

aj.
04-28-2005, 07:26 AM
well joe pendry has been a good o-line coach for years in the league...Pendry has been an offensive line coach in the NFL for only two seasons; last year in Houston (with center/guard emphasis), and in 2001 with the Redskins. He has nine years of NFL experience as offensive coordinator with Buffalo, Carolina, and KC. His only other stint as a position coach was when he coached RBs at Cleveland in the late 80's and Chicago in the early 90's.

If there is not significant progress made to open holes for the RB's (will someone please cut off the backside pursuit for a change), and most importantly, in making the neccessary changes to protect Carr, then I say dump Palmer, and the whole lot of them, as they are all to blame...DD finished the season strong with three 100+ yard games out of the last four. I think opening holes is less of a concern than protection schemes.

beerlover
04-28-2005, 10:39 AM
:woot What this means is the expansion label has been peeled off and folks are now being held accountable .

oh no :shocked another HONEYMOON has ended :heh:

TexanAddict
04-28-2005, 03:35 PM
I have stated we will have to empliment another 5 year plan.

I find all this talk about a five year plan very interesting. I think everyone should consider how many teams have gone to the Super Bowl in just the last five years. In the AFC only three different teams have gone to the Super Bowl in the last five years out of 16 (or 15 before the addition of the Texans). In the last ten years only 6 different AFC teams have attended the big dance, and not one of those teams had been a expansion team in its recent history. I think that if this plan simply refers to making the playoffs, then it is feasible, but if its the Super Bowl we're talkin about it becomes a little more difficult. Expecting a team to go from starting from scratch to the Super Bowl may be a bit of a strech, JMO.

Vinny
04-28-2005, 04:26 PM
***why are we asking Palmer about the o-line in the first place?***This is actually a good question, Bottle-o. Palmer makes the protection calls when he calls a play. He has to use more help instead of isolating all of his blockers all the time. He will need to use the back to do more than chip-block (they don't even chip much either). I think we will see more variety in his calls this year when it comes to protections. You can do too much of either extreme. On the flip side you don't want to use too much max protect to where you never send out more than 2 WR's.

TheOgre
04-28-2005, 05:20 PM
I have been a Palmer supporter, but I'm at the end of my rope.

I have defended Palmer because of his history prior to becoming coach of the Browns. I also felt this team needed 2-3 years to get the core of the team together. We are right there now. It is hard to tell where the lack of talent on the line ends and the pass protection schemes begin. I really don't think the line is that far off. I'm starting to think the problem lies with Palmer and his run-and-shoot style of pass-blocking. Heck the RB usually blocked more in the RnS than in his current pass blocking.

Bobo
04-28-2005, 06:16 PM
>I've never played football in my life, obviously and I predicted 90% of the offensive calls last year. My daughter, who knows SQUAT about football, ask me why they did the same thing over and over again. I've watched football for over 50 years, but my daughter goes for the fun. If she noticed how >crappy the play calling was, then I can assure you, if was pretty pitiful!!

I can do that too. First down, run up the middle. Second down, draw. Third down, incomplete pass/sack. Fourth down, punt.

TexanFanInCC
04-28-2005, 07:36 PM
The blocking was not that bad? I guess that was a figment of my imagination when I saw Carr running around against Indy twice and against Cleveland in particular. :heh:

how many times did the browns sack carr??? i think it was 4, but im not sure. when u let a stinkin browns defense sack u 4 times, then its clear that ur blocking needs a fixin...

sax_49
04-29-2005, 06:43 AM
Is it my imagination or did the Texans run on first and second downs 85 to 90% of the time? Defense just knows what Palmer is going to call. Gives them the edge regardless of how the Oline plays or who is playing IMO.

TheOgre
04-29-2005, 08:42 AM
Is it my imagination or did the Texans run on first and second downs 85 to 90% of the time? Defense just knows what Palmer is going to call. Gives them the edge regardless of how the Oline plays or who is playing IMO.

It is a false perception. It SEEMS like they run on 1st and 2nd down all of the time but time and again we have looked at the stats and they are actually balanced.

cuppacoffee
04-29-2005, 09:06 AM
It is a false perception. It SEEMS like they run on 1st and 2nd down all of the time but time and again we have looked at the stats and they are actually balanced.

I think the confusion comes in because when Carr dropped back to pass it usually became a running play.......Carr running for his life. :D

Vinny
04-29-2005, 10:16 AM
Is it my imagination or did the Texans run on first and second downs 85 to 90% of the time?
It's your imagination. Look up the play by play on nfl.com

texan_fan
05-06-2005, 12:03 AM
Can we deduce that since Palmer is stating that we have no problems with the offensive line, that this is the reason we hav not upgraded it? Our number one problem last year was protecting Carr, we still have not solved it IMHO. Shouldn't we expect more of the same this year? And trust me, you can go ahead an throw Pitts into this problem too, he's as much to blame as any of them.
THANK YOU!!! MR. Chester *OFFSIDES* Pitts is a HUGE part of the problem!
Let's plug in the hole on the left side of the O-line and give Carr time to actually do his thing! He can't throw the bombs when he's sittin on the grass!!!

ocd
05-06-2005, 03:17 AM
If as posted the statments concerning Palmer are true, then this is one of the most inept organizations I have seen. As a manager having explained to an employee what has to be done, the employee says I don't see the problem he should have been fired on the spot. Wait one more year Vinny! People are crazy. I'm laughing so hard its not even funny, because almost everything I have said about this coaching staff and the players in many ways is coming true. Its tragic, because this ball club and its players have been totally mismanaged in my opinion. I have stated we will have to empliment another 5 year plan. A player can't make a mistake in this organization, but a coach can exhibit total disregard of his evaluations can continue on as he pleases. And you wonder why the older key players say its time to move on. Sorry, but the organization is very sick and it will take another 2 or 3 years to clear the coaches out. I think we will be lucky to win 3 or 4 games this year. You chided me for the Titans and look at what they got. Many think they did exceeding well in the draft. I think they stand a good change to beat us, because of the QB and the coaching. Those of you who think we will get two wins from them without a struggle are just blowing smoke. Ladies and Gentlemen we have major problems and we need a whole lot of good coaching and I just don't see that happening. I really wish it wasn't the case. Parcells may be a you know what - and I really don't like him at all - but he does know what he's doing. AG might even become next year's most valueable player. Wouldn't that be a hoot. I still say the injury bug decimated any plans this ball club had. We have yet to recover totally from them. That is just bad luck and I don't think its the coaches fault, but what is, however, is the inability to recognize the problem and to begin to move forward with a new plan. Oh, well, good night and god bless the Texans.



This absolutely the best post I have ever seen in regards to the Texans. We got behind the 8 ball early due to injuries and not only have we never recovered, we have never adapted or altered our team gameplan. I am telling you now, if we have more than 2 (total) linemen go down, offense and defense combined, we are screwed. Our depth is an embarassment. And here is why we win no more than 6 games this year...all the other teams see what I see but they see more details. They will be coming after Carr like they've never done before.

They say this is just a business. Well, businesses fail every day unless they adapt and make their weakness their strength. Our weakness is both of our lines...sad. :brickwall

Honoring Earl 34
05-06-2005, 10:05 AM
:neener: If thats the best post I need to find another board or get a life . Its an easy road taking the half empty outlook, you don't have to invest much of yourself .

I believe this is the year where they need to take off the expansion label and perform like a contender . The result of them going 6-10 may cost some jobs because this team is full of young talent and talent is what takes time to assemble . :highfive:

cadahnic
05-06-2005, 10:21 AM
I truly believe that Palmer and Fangio should have been part of our off-season cuts. Promote Jon Hoke to D. Coordinator because he is our best D coach, and then go out and find a vertical passing scheme that stresses the type of blocking we are trying to build. Our blocking scheme is trying to become more like that of the Patiots, but we dont have those type of athletes on the line so we need to compensate that by switching to a more Atlanta based zone blocking scheme. I have always had a problem with our play calling because I think as a young team we need to be controlled aggression, but it seems we just try not lose which will always make you lose. Who knows possibly this year we could go 8-8 but it will be a struggle.

Porky
05-06-2005, 10:37 AM
Is it my imagination or did the Texans run on first and second downs 85 to 90% of the time? Defense just knows what Palmer is going to call. Gives them the edge regardless of how the Oline plays or who is playing IMO.

I think part of the reason for this perception is that we seem to often call a running play when a pass is clearly called for. How many off tackle run plays have been called on 3rd and 8 in the Texans first three years? :brickwall
Maybe there are legit reasons for this, such as the inability to keep the rush off of Carr, nevertheless, a more thorough analysis of down and distance run vs. pass would shed a lot more light on this perception imo.

Lucky
05-06-2005, 10:51 AM
Maybe there are legit reasons for this, such as the inability to keep the rush off of Carr, nevertheless, a more thorough analysis of down and distance run vs. pass would shed a lot more light on this perception imo.
When can we expect that analysis, Porky? :popcorn:

rhc564
05-06-2005, 10:53 AM
I believe the best example of Palmer's questionable play calling occurred in
the Patriots game in '03. With the score tied and time running out in regulation, the Pats punted and we got possession at the Pats 35yd line-
a 53yd field goal attempt right then if we do nothing. On 1st down, the
Texans run a pitchout sweep to Mack, our slowest back, and we get an
8yd loss--out of field goal range, now. Our final play on this drive is a hail
mary throw...all the Texans had to do was stay put or just 'inch' forward
to try and win with a field goal---incredible!!! :crying:

Porky
05-06-2005, 11:09 AM
When can we expect that analysis, Porky? :popcorn:

When :pigfly:

Also, as RHC mentioned, the other analyis piece to this is time left on the clock and the field position. Many times, we have chose to "run out the clock" with plenty of time to attack at the end of halves, or didn't aggresively attack in the fourth quarter. Also, we need to know what the score is during each play run. Stats alone never tell the whole story.

I herby decree Lucky to spend the next 12 days locked in a bare room with one overhead light, nothing but twinkies, and the occasional mounds or Almond Joy when he feels nutty, and a stack of papers ten feet high from the first three years with each play diagramed out, along with the down/distance/score/field postition/qtr/ and time remaining. I want this in spiral form on my desk in 12 days buster, or forget about that raise! :popcorn:

TheOgre
05-06-2005, 11:32 AM
The oven was preheated to about 350 degrees. Chris Palmer has been in it for about 2 years. You might want to check it soon. I think he is close to done. :goodnight

infantrycak
05-06-2005, 11:35 AM
I believe the best example of Palmer's questionable play calling occurred in
the Patriots game in '03. With the score tied and time running out in regulation, the Pats punted and we got possession at the Pats 35yd line-
a 53yd field goal attempt right then if we do nothing. On 1st down, the
Texans run a pitchout sweep to Mack, our slowest back, and we get an
8yd loss--out of field goal range, now. Our final play on this drive is a hail
mary throw...all the Texans had to do was stay put or just 'inch' forward
to try and win with a field goal---incredible!!! :crying:

Well, close. First it was Domanick Davis--Mack didn't play in that game--and it was a 5 yard loss not 8. Second, it was not at the end of regulation, it was in overtime. There were about 5 minutes left in OT which as you know is sudden death. 52 yd field goal range when they got possession. Several people have questioned the 2nd down running play--why don't you question the 1st down running play that got no gain? 52 yds is no chip shot and the ball was at the right hash mark making it that much harder. I just don't get the criticism on that call. DD had lost yardage on only one of the prior 23 rushing attempts. Even if the play gains nothing but gets it to the hashmark you have made it much easier for Brown--gain 2-4 and get it on the left hash mark and you may have given Brown a 15-20% better chance at winning the game.

ojthecat
05-06-2005, 11:38 AM
Guys 5 year plan remember?

1st year = 3 wins
2nd year = 5 wins
3rd year = 7 wins

4th year => 9 wins

This is where we are supposed to be according to plan. You can blame Palmer fo everything if you want but he is doing a fine job. The coaches can't block and tackle. We are no longer an expansion team and this will be the first year that you can give a true evaluation of the Coaches. This is the first year that we have enough of our players to realistally make the playoffs.

I say we will be in the playoffs this year and I for one can't wait for the excitment of playoff football in Reliant Stadium.

infantrycak
05-06-2005, 11:40 AM
I think part of the reason for this perception is that we seem to often call a running play when a pass is clearly called for. How many off tackle run plays have been called on 3rd and 8 in the Texans first three years? :brickwall


Maybe it won't take 12 days for Lucky after all, at least for last year.

Domanick Davis had ZERO rushing attempts on 3rd down and 8-10 yds. He had one for on 3rd and 11+. Even on 3rd and 3-7 he only had 7 attempts on which he by the way averaged 8.9 yds.

Seems like there needs to be a new theory on why people perceive run, run, pass.

beerlover
05-06-2005, 11:41 AM
just what is the average job span for coaches in the NFL. I'll bet 4 years beats the average :)

infantrycak
05-06-2005, 11:43 AM
just what is the average job span for coaches in the NFL. I'll bet 4 years beats the average :)

Entering the 1980 season, NFL coaches had been with their current teams an average of 4.61 seasons. Going into the '03 campaign, the current contingent of head coaches has logged just 2.75 seasons of previous experience with his current franchise

Link (http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1532190.html)

Rightnow
05-06-2005, 11:51 AM
I don't know about most of you, but I haven't missed a home game yet and every game I can predict at least 85% of the play calls. I played ball for a number of years, but in no way am I a football genius. If I can predict that many calls, where does the problem lie?

You took the words right out of my mouth.

The second huge problem is the lack of adjustments at half time.

beerlover
05-06-2005, 12:01 PM
Link (http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1532190.html)

thanks cak, thats about what I thought. here is a quote from the article that bascily sums up this entire fire Palmer thread,

Everybody wants to win now. If you don't, the owner is going to find someone else he thinks can get it done, that's just a fact of life.

infantrycak
05-06-2005, 12:05 PM
Follow up on the running on clear passing downs post:

In the last two season DD has run:

4 times on 3rd and 11+ yds
4 times on 3rd and 8-10 yds
13 times on 3rd and 3-7 yds
23 times on 3rd and less than 3

Let's compare David Carr's passing (I'll include David's rushing plays except on less than 3 because they were called passing plays which is the point of the discussion):

59 attempts on 3rd and 11+ yds
56 attempts on 3rd and 8-10 yds
110 attempts on 3rd and 3-7 yds
22 attempts on 3rd and less than 3

So % wise:
3rd and 11+--run 6.3%, pass 93.7%
3rd and 8-10--run 6.7%, pass 93.3%
3rd and 3-7--run 10.5 %, pass 89.5%
3rd and less than 3--run 51%, pass 49%

The only scenario where running plays a significant role on 3rd down is 3rd and less than 3--where, by the way, DD has averaged 6.9 ypc on those plays.

rhc564
05-06-2005, 01:06 PM
I know you thrive on stats and maybe some day that will somehow translate
into wins for the Texans! Last year, the Texans were in the bottom half in
the AFC in every major offensive category, a few are
3rd down conversions-11
total offense-11
scoring offense-13
time of possession-11
penalties-11
penalty yards-11

These are just a few and are out of 16 teams. I'm making no claims here
but I do have a lot of time on my hands---you like stats, let's see what I
can find... :)

Porky
05-06-2005, 01:21 PM
You know what they say - figures lie, and liars figure.

All I can tell you is the anecdotal evidence is that we run a more conservative offense than most. This can be like that for many reasons, some perfectly legit. But, if you are arguing that the Texans run a wide open offense, well see above. Stats don't always tell the whole story. I watch the games, and come away with my own impressions. I don't need a bunch of figures on paper to tell me what I just watched. Nice work though. I owe you some twinkies, and Almond Joy bars. :thankyou:

infantrycak
05-06-2005, 02:55 PM
You know what they say - figures lie, and liars figure.

All I can tell you is the anecdotal evidence is that we run a more conservative offense than most. This can be like that for many reasons, some perfectly legit. But, if you are arguing that the Texans run a wide open offense, well see above. Stats don't always tell the whole story. I watch the games, and come away with my own impressions. I don't need a bunch of figures on paper to tell me what I just watched. Nice work though. I owe you some twinkies, and Almond Joy bars. :thankyou:

Where did you see anything in what I posted about a wide open offense? It was posited that the Texans ran quite a bit when they should be throwing and the 3rd and 8 scenario was given. Cute quips about stats & figures aside, the answer was zero last year. Really no arguing or interpreting that stat.

Anecdotal evidence and impressions are all well and good, if they are correct. Unfortunately, if you hang out with a bunch of folks giving their impressions or anecdotes that the Texans run every 1st and 2nd down (something disproven after virtually ever game the last two years) you will be misled. Likewise if you listen to all the impressions or anecdotes around here about the Texans running a draw play every 3rd and 8 you'll get misled as well. Just like with stats, anecdotes and impressions have to be cross-checked otherwise you get garbage in=garbage out.

By the way, anecdotally, breast implants and molds cause hundreds of different illnesses. Anecdotally, George Bush kept the columbian drug cartels in business for several years.

jacquescas
05-06-2005, 03:13 PM
i'll say it again and again we passed on 2 day 2 gems on offensive line with elton brown going in the 4th and chris kemoautua going in the 6th either or both would have helped immensely in the interior part of the line.

rhc564
05-06-2005, 04:29 PM
Carr's 1st 8 games 2004
2162yds/9tds/5int/21sacks

Carr's 2nd 8 games 2004
1377yds/7tds/9int/28sacks

-Carr averaged over 270ypg the first half, only 172ypg the second half.
-Carr had more int the 2nd half than TDs
-Carr had about 1 more sack per game the 2nd half, with 16/28 coming
against the Colts(2 games) and Browns
-Carrs lowest yardage out put of the year came against Cleveland (114)

So, why did the offense regress the 2nd half? The thinking on this board
is that the OL will be better this year--maybe it will be--but is that the
whole story here? :hmmm: