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View Full Version : Cam vs Tebow....


thunderkyss
11-20-2011, 06:33 PM
Cam is playing the position as well as any rookie could be expected to play the position. Maybe better.

Tebow... isn't.

Cam has 2 wins in 10 attempts.

Tebow has 4 wins in 5 starts.


I'm not saying nothing.... just want to know what you guys think.

brakos82
11-20-2011, 06:40 PM
I could post this question on facebook and get a Panthers and Broncos fans battling it out with their respective Cam and Tebow smilies. :heh:

Meanwhile I like Dalton better. :spin:

Honoring Earl 34
11-20-2011, 07:03 PM
Cam has way more upswing .

Marcus
11-20-2011, 07:20 PM
Cam is playing the position as well as any rookie could be expected to play the position. Maybe better.

Tebow... isn't.

Cam has 2 wins in 10 attempts.

Tebow has 4 wins in 5 starts.


I'm not saying nothing.... just want to know what you guys think.

A QB doesn't get wins. The team gets wins. Do away with this misconception that a football QB is somehow like a baseball pitcher. And that's exactly what the above "stats" show.

Playoffs
11-20-2011, 07:35 PM
Cam's toolbox: http://www.stmichaelsremus.net/toolbox.gif

Tebow's toolbox: http://media.strategywiki.org/images/2/2c/AKFK_If_I_Had_a_Hammer.jpg

BullNation4Life
11-21-2011, 09:58 AM
Cam is playing the position as well as any rookie could be expected to play the position. Maybe better.

Tebow... isn't.

Cam has 2 wins in 10 attempts.

Tebow has 4 wins in 5 starts.


I'm not saying nothing.... just want to know what you guys think.

Tebow has a far better defense than Cam does. Give Cam Denver's Defense, he probably has 5-6 wins...

Hervoyel
11-21-2011, 12:09 PM
Two or three years from now Tebow will be trying to get invited to someone's camp. Newton will be playing the Pro Bowl.

eriadoc
11-21-2011, 12:41 PM
People that give wins and losses to QBs annoy the crap out of me. Unfortunately, that seems to be damn near everyone involved in football. Even otherwise intelligent fans who argue the same point will relapse and assign wins and losses when it's a QB they care one way or another about.

Dutchrudder
11-21-2011, 01:08 PM
Tebow: All he does is win!

thunderkyss
11-21-2011, 01:13 PM
People that give wins and losses to QBs annoy the crap out of me. Unfortunately, that seems to be damn near everyone involved in football. Even otherwise intelligent fans who argue the same point will relapse and assign wins and losses when it's a QB they care one way or another about.

Agreed.

My point with this thread, is that maybe everyone is looking at the QB position wrong.

Winning & losing is about the team in the NFL. Offense, defense, special teams.

Our team has been lacking on field leadership for a long time. We've got an extremely talented bunch of guys out there, but who is leading them?

Cam is a great player..... so was McNabb. But who is leading that team?

Tebow is not nearly as talented as half the QBs in the league. But he instills a confidence in his team that gets them to play to the best of their ability.

You can't teach those intangibles. You can't fake it. You either got them or you don't.

Now Tebow seams to be the extreme case.... leadership without the necessary tools to play QB in this league.

Dalton, the second round pick, seems to be just the right mix.

infantrycak
11-21-2011, 03:05 PM
Our team has been lacking on field leadership for a long time.

Says who? Where is the Texan player saying this? Just because you can't see it in some sort of hysterical tirade makes it true? Every single Texan player interview I have heard has been positive on Schaub's leadership including how they have confidence in Leinart because he has been trying to be like Schaub. That is leadership.

thunderkyss
11-21-2011, 03:12 PM
Says who? Where is the Texan player saying this? Just because you can't see it in some sort of hysterical tirade makes it true? Every single Texan player interview I have heard has been positive on Schaub's leadership including how they have confidence in Leinart because he has been trying to be like Schaub. That is leadership.

Thank you for your opinion.

badboy
11-21-2011, 03:27 PM
I think Schaub like Tebow is with the right team. Both are leaders in my view.

Double Barrel
11-21-2011, 03:39 PM
Says who? Where is the Texan player saying this? Just because you can't see it in some sort of hysterical tirade makes it true? Every single Texan player interview I have heard has been positive on Schaub's leadership including how they have confidence in Leinart because he has been trying to be like Schaub. That is leadership.

I think the public often reads too much into body language. Schaub has a very calm demeanor. He's not jumpy and doesn't yell. He stays cool and collective, and every once in awhile, you'll catch a grimace on his face. And somehow from that folks will make the jump in logic that he's not a leader.

Look at the situation last playoffs with Cutler and the Bears. Body language was read that he's not tough and did not want to compete. Yet guys like Urlacher come out and defend him with an attitude. You won't see a pro-bowler like him defending a QB that he doesn't believe in.

The entire Texans team has a very laid back personality to it. Even our two biggest superstars - AJ & Mario - are very relaxed on the field and off. Then look at Arian, Tate, Daniels, Winston, and just about every one of them that makes media appearances and it's a very cool bunch of dudes. The only guy with any kind of mouth to him is Antonio Smith, and even he is not fiery as 'the ninja'.

thunderkyss
11-21-2011, 03:59 PM
I think the public often reads too much into body language. Schaub has a very calm demeanor. He's not jumpy and doesn't yell. He stays cool and collective, and every once in awhile, you'll catch a grimace on his face. And somehow from that folks will make the jump in logic that he's not a leader.

I would like a fiery leader type.... but it's not essential. The reason I don't think Schaub is a leader, & he very well may be, is that if I'm a player on any team, before I stretch out for a catch, or throw my whole body into a block, or try to split two 300lbers, I'd like to know everyone else on my team will do the same, that includes & most specifically the QB.

Back in 2009, remember Andre fighting his way into the endzone? last year, remember Cortland innegand?

Schaub had his moments as well, 2009, 2010, even this year, that last drive against Oakland, he put it all on the line.

I'm sorry, but I have not been seeing that from our QB on a consistent basis. I don't think he's giving 110% so I don't see how he can be asking others to give 100%



Look at the situation last playoffs with Cutler and the Bears. Body language was read that he's not tough and did not want to compete. Yet guys like Urlacher come out and defend him with an attitude. You won't see a pro-bowler like him defending a QB that he doesn't believe in.

The entire Texans team has a very laid back personality to it. Even our two biggest superstars - AJ & Mario - are very relaxed on the field and off. Then look at Arian, Tate, Daniels, Winston, and just about every one of them that makes media appearances and it's a very cool bunch of dudes. The only guy with any kind of mouth to him is Antonio Smith, and even he is not fiery as 'the ninja'.

Did you see Terrell Owens crying about the way Romo was being treated in the media? He's a Pro-bowler, a HOFer..... did you buy it?

eriadoc
11-21-2011, 04:12 PM
I'm sorry, but I have not been seeing that from our QB on a consistent basis. I don't think he's giving 110% so I don't see how he can be asking others to give 100%

Most of your posts, I just sort of roll my eyes, chuckle, and move on. I seldom see any reason to openly ridicule your ludicrous statements and opinions, because you're a very respectful poster and I value presentation over opinion, since everyone has a differing opinion.

This is just beyond ludicrous, though. You have nothing to back up such a claim. I'm not a Schaub fan. I wanted the trade, I was happy when they got him, and I was optimistic as hell about him. I've since come to the conclusion that he's not much more than a stat jockey. But I have NO reason to question his leadership and neither do you.

There comes a point of silliness beyond which everyone ceases to take you seriously, you know.

Rey
11-21-2011, 04:35 PM
Most of your posts, I just sort of roll my eyes, chuckle, and move on. I seldom see any reason to openly ridicule your ludicrous statements and opinions, because you're a very respectful poster and I value presentation over opinion, since everyone has a differing opinion.

This is just beyond ludicrous, though. You have nothing to back up such a claim. I'm not a Schaub fan. I wanted the trade, I was happy when they got him, and I was optimistic as hell about him. I've since come to the conclusion that he's not much more than a stat jockey. But I have NO reason to question his leadership and neither do you.

There comes a point of silliness beyond which everyone ceases to take you seriously, you know.


I think Schaub is more than a stat junkie. I think he's a good QB and I think he is an ok leader just from what I have observed. I think guys like him, respect him, feel they have a chance to win when he is on the field.

But it's nearly impossible to tell exactly how much influence Schaub's leadership has on players unless you are in that locker room.

thunderkyss
11-21-2011, 05:14 PM
Most of your posts, I just sort of roll my eyes, chuckle, and move on. I seldom see any reason to openly ridicule your ludicrous statements and opinions, because you're a very respectful poster and I value presentation over opinion, since everyone has a differing opinion.

This is just beyond ludicrous, though. You have nothing to back up such a claim. I'm not a Schaub fan. I wanted the trade, I was happy when they got him, and I was optimistic as hell about him. I've since come to the conclusion that he's not much more than a stat jockey. But I have NO reason to question his leadership and neither do you.

There comes a point of silliness beyond which everyone ceases to take you seriously, you know.

Let's think about what I'm saying here. In 2009 & 2010 when we found ourselves in a shootout for every game, we saw Matt Schaub play a certain way... right or wrong?

IMO, when we need a score, he's going to stay in the pocket & take that hit as he waits till the last second to throw the ball, waiting for a receiver to uncover, or get to the top of his route, or waiting for the safety to make a choice.

I made the same observation before the 2009 season & mentioned how much Matt had changed that season & how that was more like what I was wanting to see.

My observation this season is the same. On third down, when we have to make a play, I'd like to see Matt make that play. When he leaves the pocket, I know he's going to throw it away. He'll look down field, but if there's nothing there.. it's going out of bounds.

Say what you want, but if any of our other players were to say, "F@# it, it just wasn't there." on any down, much less third, we'd all be having a fit.

Again, not saying that Matt should be forcing anything... just narrow his definition of wiiiiidddeeee open. Make something happen, make a play. Don't give up so easy.

thunderkyss
11-21-2011, 05:21 PM
Let's think about what I'm saying here.

As I'm typing this, I'm also watching highlights from this weeks games.

I see QBs playing the way I like to see the game played.

I'm thinking about Romo, Farve, McNabb... those guys do so much, that they actually hide weaknesses on the team. A really good coach would be able to see what is actually happen & continue to fix the real issues & not waste time trying to fix the QB... trying to get the QB to cover up even more weaknesses.

When I think of a QB, a leader, I'm thinking about that guy that hides those other weaknesses as the "ideal" QB.

Maybe you guys are right, maybe Kubiak has the master plan all set up & maybe this is the "most complete" team in the NFL.

I've been wrong before.

Double Barrel
11-21-2011, 05:28 PM
I think Schaub is more than a stat junkie. I think he's a good QB and I think he is an ok leader just from what I have observed. I think guys like him, respect him, feel they have a chance to win when he is on the field.

But it's nearly impossible to tell exactly how much influence Schaub's leadership has on players unless you are in that locker room.

The only way that the public can even get a glimpse of what the locker room perceives about a QB is how they play on the field and what the players say about him during interviews.

All indications are that this team has never quit on Kubiak or Schaub on the field, and they have nothing but praise for both of them in the media.

So from our (fans) viewpoint, I see nothing tangible that would reveal any kind of division within the locker room about Schaub.

Perhaps there is something and I have missed it. But when everyone, including defensive players, are endorsing a QB, then that says a lot to me.

BigBull17
11-21-2011, 05:41 PM
People that give wins and losses to QBs annoy the crap out of me. Unfortunately, that seems to be damn near everyone involved in football. Even otherwise intelligent fans who argue the same point will relapse and assign wins and losses when it's a QB they care one way or another about.

It's just a way for a fan boy of a QB to say "So what if he goes 8-18 for 78 yards with a pick and a fumble, he just wins" instead of admitting his short comings. " If Vince/Tebow/ect.. didn't suck balls, their team would be really well off. "

BigBull17
11-21-2011, 05:44 PM
Says who? Where is the Texan player saying this? Just because you can't see it in some sort of hysterical tirade makes it true? Every single Texan player interview I have heard has been positive on Schaub's leadership including how they have confidence in Leinart because he has been trying to be like Schaub. That is leadership.

People think just because Schaub doesn't have a shhouting cheer like Brees or Ray Lewis that he isn't a leader. Same with Dre. Same with...Kubiak. Say what you will, our guys are ready and never quit. Those qualities sound like a well led team.

Honoring Earl 34
11-21-2011, 07:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=J56R_s5FPfA#!

steelbtexan
11-21-2011, 07:23 PM
Tebow has God on his side.

Cam only has Auburn Boosters on his side.

Give me Dalton over both of them.

thunderkyss
11-21-2011, 07:40 PM
Tebow has God on his side.

Cam only has Auburn Boosters on his side.

Give me Dalton over both of them.

Can you imagine if Cam went to Cincy?


or better yet, Tebow?

steelbtexan
11-21-2011, 07:41 PM
Schaub is a more talented version of Dilfer.

Smart, hard worker, limited athleticly

Is it enough to win a SB? If all of the pieces are in place the answer is yes. Same as it was for Dilfer.

ObsiWan
11-22-2011, 10:36 PM
A QB doesn't get wins. The team gets wins. Do away with this misconception that a football QB is somehow like a baseball pitcher. And that's exactly what the above "stats" show.

Agreed. You can have the best QB in the world but if his line doesn't block or his receivers don't catch or the defense gives up more points than the offense can generate the TEAM will lose (see Carolina).

And to those who think you have to be all boisterous and fiery to be a leader, I direct your attention to Bart Starr or Joe Montana. Joe was cool as the proverbial cucumber and has how many Super Bowl rings? Starr had quiet confidence. And there is no question who was the leader of those teams.

chicagotexan2
11-23-2011, 08:01 AM
Playing like garbage most of the game then finally putting together a scoring drive in the waning minutes doesnt make you a winner. It means you finally showed up after sucking and thankfully your defense kept the team in the game long enough for you to swoop in and get the glory.

Tebow is liked mostly for reasons that are not relevant to playing the game. David Carr was a decent man, loving husband, caring father, blah blah blah. So am I. That's not going to make me a or Tebow good qb. The guy can play football, but he is just a bad qb. He may get better but that's not saying much when he's so bad now.

I thought for sure Newton would be a bust but the guy is for real and is head and shoulders beyond Tebow as a qb.

thunderkyss
11-23-2011, 09:33 AM
Agreed. You can have the best QB in the world but if his line doesn't block or his receivers don't catch or the defense gives up more points than the offense can generate the TEAM will lose (see Carolina).

And to those who think you have to be all boisterous and fiery to be a leader, I direct your attention to Bart Starr or Joe Montana. Joe was cool as the proverbial cucumber and has how many Super Bowl rings? Starr had quiet confidence. And there is no question who was the leader of those teams.

I've never seen Bart Starr. At least I don't remember. But I've seen plenty of Joe Montana. Fiery, maybe not. But Joe Made many of plays. When plays break down & the QB has to improvise. That is the difference between the winners & average QBs.

Sometimes the ball is thrown high, sometimes low, sometimes a little to far, or underthrown. We all expect an above average receiver (WR, TE, RB, FB) to make some of those catches.

Sometimes the hole opens where it's supposed to, sometimes it's not as big as it should be, or open as long as it should be, or may not be there at all. But we all expect an above average RB to make something happen more times than not.

Sometimes, nobody is open, but we all know that can't last forever. Either the line provides time for the QB to make a play, or he buys time and make a play.

In 2009 & 2010, Matt did that; when he needed to, when the team was down & we needed something miraculous to happen.

All I'm saying is that we need Matt to be that guy more often, selectively of course. Not waiting for us to go down by two or three scores.

When we got a lead & our defense gets a stop, we need him to be that guy, to push our lead..... this team is built to protect a lead.

When we need to change the momentum, when we need to keep their offense (New Orleans, Green Bay, New England, Baltimore) off the field. We need him to be that guy, just so we don't go 3 & out.

When it's 3rd down & we need to make the mark.... we need Matt to not give up so easily. We know he can be a hell of QB on 3rd down, we've seen it before, in 2009, in 2010, the last 5 minutes of the Oakland game (this year).

I'm not saying we need to get rid of Matt, because he's played as well as I've wanted him to. I just want him to play that way more often.

ObsiWan
11-23-2011, 03:00 PM
I'm not saying we need to get rid of Matt, because he's played as well as I've wanted him to. I just want him to play that way more often.

So do we all. So do we all...

In fact, right about now, I'll bet Schaub just wishes he could play.

Texecutioner
11-23-2011, 03:34 PM
Tebow represents Christianity, love, leadership, giving, and honor.


Cam represents greed, arrogance, and dishonesty.


Both have established the ability to win in college. Cam right now is a much better QB as far as the pros go. Tebow is by far the the guy that you want leading your team and serving as an example to follow for his teammates though.

ObsiWan
11-24-2011, 06:48 PM
Tebow represents Christianity, love, leadership, giving, and honor.


Cam represents greed, arrogance, and dishonesty.


Both have established the ability to win in college. Cam right now is a much better QB as far as the pros go. Tebow is by far the the guy that you want leading your team and serving as an example to follow for his teammates though.

Soooo Tebow is who we wish would to run for Congress and Cam is who we actually elect.

Texecutioner
11-24-2011, 10:57 PM
Soooo Tebow is who we wish would to run for Congress and Cam is who we actually elect.

Pretty much nailed it

b0ng
11-24-2011, 11:01 PM
Tebow represents Christianity, love, leadership, giving, and honor.


Cam represents greed, arrogance, and dishonesty.


Both have established the ability to win in college. Cam right now is a much better QB as far as the pros go. Tebow is by far the the guy that you want leading your team and serving as an example to follow for his teammates though.

Uh, what has Cam Newton done in the NFL to say that he's not a guy that other players (Like Steve Smith) wouldn't follow him into battle?

Dutchrudder
11-25-2011, 12:30 AM
Soooo Tebow is who we wish would to run for Congress and Cam is who we actually elect.

Lol, wish I could rep this but I'm on my phone...

Texecutioner
11-25-2011, 11:57 AM
Uh, what has Cam Newton done in the NFL to say that he's not a guy that other players (Like Steve Smith) wouldn't follow him into battle?

I never made such claim. I stated that tebow was a much better example for his teammates to follow and to lead. If you know both of their history than that is really an unquestionable statement.

House of Pain
11-27-2011, 06:14 AM
I just wish Irvin and Deion would stop reading their love letters to Cam on the air of the NFL Network.