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View Full Version : Bye Mock with notable changes


badboy
11-15-2011, 05:52 PM
First as a noted (in my own mind) evaluator of defensive backs, especially corners with good 40 speed, I am not drafting a CB. This was extremely difficult for me as I was not a fan of drafting KJ or his play since. Having said that, I would be remiss not to note the improvement in the play @CB2. It could be result of coaching (THis is biggest imo), J Joseph or Manning or all 3. It also pains me to leave very good corners on the board as I always draft one just because. This mock is predicated on @22 as Schaub out.

1. Courtney Upshaw OLB/ILB Alabama 6'2" 263 lbs 4.70 BPA for Texans. Can play either position but I evaluate him higher than Reed coming out. Drops back well at his size and is a terror sideline to sideline or attacking.
2nd choice: Dont'a Hightower ILB Alabama
I'm very concerned that CloakNDagger's evaluation of Demeco Ryans possibly going backwards in productivity next season may be accurate.

2. Dontar'i Poe N.T. Memphis 6'5" 350 5.30 hugely strong tackle but may fall due to Alemeda Ta'Amu being "re-directed" by quality Olinemen. Also, NE England's cutting of Hainesworth may cause teams to shy from over 320 pounders. Poe is real deal. I don't see Phillips using a 1st on a nose but Poe to good to ignore in this round. Immediate starter that takes pressure of ILBs.

3. Kendall Wright WR Baylor 5'10" 190 4.32 excellent hands. I want to be able to say Walter and/or JJ have resolved need to draft a WR but I'm not convinced. JJ is better but should be even betgter than he is. I think Lestar Jean may be good but to hard to go there with so little info. Mason? Notice I've included a 7th round.

4. Winston Guy SS/FS Kentucky 6'1" 210 4.46 2010: 106 tackles 3 INTs
Demps has 2 INTs in two games. Nolan has not convince me of much. Manning and Quin will start. If Nolan & Demps lock down roster spots, I will use this pick on LG Lonnie Edwards Tx Tech 6'4" 322

5. Phillip Blake C/RT/OG 6'2" 320 5.26. 2009: started all games @ RT & last 2 years started all games @center. If either G,C or RT goes out Blake should be solid. Butler would be first at back up tackle.

6. Kase Keenum QB U. Houston 6'2" 210 With our RBs, TEs and AJ, he would be excellent. 37TD : 3 INTs. YPA 10.5 so he is not dinking the pass. With two games left he projects to almost 5,000 yds. You can knock the opponents but same can be said for Boise St.

7. Chad Diehl 6'2" 265 lbs 2010:34 pancake blocks. He is a one trick pony but if you want a bulldozer blocking for our trinity, this is the guy.
http://clemson.greenvilleonline.com/content/story/7259/pancakes-help-diehl-rise-in-eyes-of-nfl-scouts/

beerlover
11-15-2011, 08:11 PM
First as a noted (in my own mind) evaluator of defensive backs, especially corners with good 40 speed, I am not drafting a CB. This was extremely difficult for me as I was not a fan of drafting KJ or his play since. Having said that, I would be remiss not to note the improvement in the play @CB2. It could be result of coaching (THis is biggest imo), J Joseph or Manning or all 3. It also pains me to leave very good corners on the board as I always draft one just because. This mock is predicated on @22 as Schaub out.

1. Courtney Upshaw OLB/ILB Alabama 6'2" 263 lbs 4.70 BPA for Texans. Can play either position but I evaluate him higher than Reed coming out. Drops back well at his size and is a terror sideline to sideline or attacking.
2nd choice: Dont'a Hightower ILB Alabama
I'm very concerned that CloakNDagger's evaluation of Demeco Ryans possibly going backwards in productivity next season may be accurate.

2. Dontar'i Poe N.T. Memphis 6'5" 350 5.30 hugely strong tackle but may fall due to Alemeda Ta'Amu being "re-directed" by quality Olinemen. Also, NE England's cutting of Hainesworth may cause teams to shy from over 320 pounders. Poe is real deal. I don't see Phillips using a 1st on a nose but Poe to good to ignore in this round. Immediate starter that takes pressure of ILBs.

3. Kendall Wright WR Baylor 5'10" 190 4.32 excellent hands. I want to be able to say Walter and/or JJ have resolved need to draft a WR but I'm not convinced. JJ is better but should be even betgter than he is. I think Lestar Jean may be good but to hard to go there with so little info. Mason? Notice I've included a 7th round.

4. Winston Guy SS/FS Kentucky 6'1" 210 4.46 2010: 106 tackles 3 INTs
Demps has 2 INTs in two games. Nolan has not convince me of much. Manning and Quin will start. If Nolan & Demps lock down roster spots, I will use this pick on LG Lonnie Edwards Tx Tech 6'4" 322

5. Phillip Blake C/RT/OG 6'2" 320 5.26. 2009: started all games @ RT & last 2 years started all games @center. If either G,C or RT goes out Blake should be solid. Butler would be first at back up tackle.

6. Kase Keenum QB U. Houston 6'2" 210 With our RBs, TEs and AJ, he would be excellent. 37TD : 3 INTs. YPA 10.5 so he is not dinking the pass. With two games left he projects to almost 5,000 yds. You can knock the opponents but same can be said for Boise St.

7. Chad Diehl 6'2" 265 lbs 2010:34 pancake blocks. He is a one trick pony but if you want a bulldozer blocking for our trinity, this is the guy.
http://clemson.greenvilleonline.com/content/story/7259/pancakes-help-diehl-rise-in-eyes-of-nfl-scouts/

*Upshaw may still be there #22?
*Like Poe here as discussed he's got the prototypical NT size without the flab.
*Doubt Wright is here this late, but maybe Broyes slips here because of injury concerns, in that case I would take him if Wright if off the board.
*Winston Guy is a DB. Texans are suddenly deep @ position with emergence of Nolan & Demps not to mention Manning will be back soon.
*Like Blake here, solid developmental pick. Will not be starter material for awhile.
*Keenum would be a cool pick how do you measure him up with last years developmental QB pick Yates?
*Diehl is a solid FB that grades out 5th-6th rd. Doubt he lasts this long even if Texans do have a 7th because Mason doesn't meet pick conditions.

Overall Draft Grade: B

Key is the first selection (if he is still on the board) then Poe would cement grade. Rest don't seem to measure up to draft grade or importance of position needed to start right away. Throw Broyles in 3rd (realistic/need) you get a B+. Bump up a starting caliber OG/C it's an A-. TE/FB or CB who could make the 53 man roster & you knock it out of the park. I'm not yet ready to throw in the towel & use a #1 or #2 pick on a starting caliber QB but if thats what people want I guess we could give one to them :cool:

Dutchrudder
11-15-2011, 08:13 PM
No QB? I thought that would be the noticeable change... :)

beerlover
11-15-2011, 09:50 PM
No QB? I thought that would be the noticeable change... :)

guess he doesn't count?6. Kase Keenum QB U. Houston 6'2" 210 With our RBs, TEs and AJ, he would be excellent. 37TD : 3 INTs. YPA 10.5 so he is not dinking the pass. With two games left he projects to almost 5,000 yds. You can knock the opponents but same can be said for Boise St.

badboy
11-15-2011, 09:56 PM
*Upshaw may still be there #22?
*Like Poe here as discussed he's got the prototypical NT size without the flab.
*Doubt Wright is here this late, but maybe Broyes slips here because of injury concerns, in that case I would take him if Wright if off the board.
*Winston Guy is a DB. Texans are suddenly deep @ position with emergence of Nolan & Demps not to mention Manning will be back soon.
*Like Blake here, solid developmental pick. Will not be starter material for awhile.
*Keenum would be a cool pick how do you measure him up with last years developmental QB pick Yates?
*Diehl is a solid FB that grades out 5th-6th rd. Doubt he lasts this long even if Texans do have a 7th because Mason doesn't meet pick conditions.

Overall Draft Grade: B

Key is the first selection (if he is still on the board) then Poe would cement grade. Rest don't seem to measure up to draft grade or importance of position needed to start right away. Throw Broyles in 3rd (realistic/need) you get a B+. Bump up a starting caliber OG/C it's an A-. TE/FB or CB who could make the 53 man roster & you knock it out of the park. I'm not yet ready to throw in the towel & use a #1 or #2 pick on a starting caliber QB but if thats what people want I guess we could give one to them :cool:Thanks for feed back. We have only two positions on current roster that a draft pick could possibly start over the incumbent, Nose and WR2. I have Poe tagged early 2nd but as I state in thread, there are two reasons he should slide a bit. Few people have Wright as high as 3rd. I am really tired of small incremental improvements on Jacoby Jones part. A 5year vet should be averaging more than 2 receptions a game, especially as the #1 guy has been out. If Wright not there and Broyles and healthy, I'd take him.

We have not seen Yates in NFL enough to eval so we should use college against Keenum's college. There is no comparison.

Upshaw may be gone but is BPA imo. I did list Hightower as 2nd choice.

badboy
11-15-2011, 10:00 PM
No QB? I thought that would be the noticeable change... :)How about one that will have passed for over 18,000 career yards? A 2011 QB rating of almost 200?

thunderkyss
11-15-2011, 10:20 PM
The draft is coming, one way or another. Even though we have few needs, you're either improving pr you're losing, so we've got to do something.

I'd still like to see a wide receiver in the first round, but I really like the idea of a LB that can play on the edge & go sideline to sideline. That will give us leverage with Mario & insurance for Demeco.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall of that war room.

badboy
11-15-2011, 10:59 PM
Nose is my priority but I'm off Ta'Amu & not sure Wade doesn't think the Dline is fine as is. I don't see a first round WR value for us. We can get #2 in 3rd and select quality depth if not starters in 1 & 2. Demeco is looking better but I am concerned he might go downhill quickly. Hope I'm wrong.

Dutchrudder
11-15-2011, 11:17 PM
How about one that will have passed for over 18,000 career yards? A 2011 QB rating of almost 200?

Sorry, got messed up looking at threads in different windows :(

steelbtexan
11-15-2011, 11:34 PM
Since we dont know if Schaub is going to return at 100 % QB has to move up the list. Unless Gary is sold on Yates being really improved over the next 2 yrs. To the point that Yates can be the long term answer at QB.

I really like Weeden, he has a great arm and although he is 28 yrs old, he's no Weinke. He has a much better arm. He should be ready to be the starter by age 30. That gives you 5-7 yrs of good QB play for a 3/4th rd pick.

What do you guys think of Tanneyhill? I could see him being the Texans 1st rd pick. Not that I'm on board with the pick.

Wolf6151
11-16-2011, 03:09 AM
1. Upshaw or Hightower, although I don't see ILB or OLB as our highest priority both of these guys are excellent players and I like Upshaws ability to play either position. Hopefully Demeco defy's the odds but either of these guys would be a great fill in.
2. Poe, I like this pick in a rotation with Cody. We could then move Mitchell to a backup DE, reinforcing 2 positions.
3. Wright, if we wait until the 3rd round for a WR then I like this pick. WR is very deep in this draft and there are several good ones that might be available in the 3rd.
4. Guy, I've been reading about him on other boards and he seems to be moving up draft boards. Good depth behind Quin and makes Barber expendable, that alone is worth the pick. Nolan is playing well and Demps might take Safety off of our list of draft needs.
5. Blake, he seems to be falling down boards and might be had as an UDFA. As long as he can play OG well he should be good depth. If he makes Studdard expendable then he's a good pick.
6. Keenum, I was impressed with Yates in preseason and don't see a need at QB, I think we could fill another depth hole. This is the only pick I don't like. I'd look for another OG/C/OT here or maybe a DE.
7. Diehl, he might also be available as an UDFA but he's a good pick in the 7th and saves us some money over Vickers.

Overall I like the depth this draft adds to the team.

badboy
11-16-2011, 10:04 AM
Sorry, got messed up looking at threads in different windows :(What are your thoughts on Keenum? Many say he is a "system" QB, but would he do well on Texans roster?

badboy
11-16-2011, 10:06 AM
Since we dont know if Schaub is going to return at 100 % QB has to move up the list. Unless Gary is sold on Yates being really improved over the next 2 yrs. To the point that Yates can be the long term answer at QB.

I really like Weeden, he has a great arm and although he is 28 yrs old, he's no Weinke. He has a much better arm. He should be ready to be the starter by age 30. That gives you 5-7 yrs of good QB play for a 3/4th rd pick.

What do you guys think of Tanneyhill? I could see him being the Texans 1st rd pick. Not that I'm on board with the pick.Weeden is moving up charts & I do like him but not sure if I'd draft him. Positive about Kase is a 6th round pick.

badboy
11-16-2011, 10:17 AM
1. Upshaw or Hightower, although I don't see ILB or OLB as our highest priority both of these guys are excellent players and I like Upshaws ability to play either position. Hopefully Demeco defy's the odds but either of these guys would be a great fill in.
2. Poe, I like this pick in a rotation with Cody. We could then move Mitchell to a backup DE, reinforcing 2 positions.
3. Wright, if we wait until the 3rd round for a WR then I like this pick. WR is very deep in this draft and there are several good ones that might be available in the 3rd.
4. Guy, I've been reading about him on other boards and he seems to be moving up draft boards. Good depth behind Quin and makes Barber expendable, that alone is worth the pick. Nolan is playing well and Demps might take Safety off of our list of draft needs.
5. Blake, he seems to be falling down boards and might be had as an UDFA. As long as he can play OG well he should be good depth. If he makes Studdard expendable then he's a good pick.
6. Keenum, I was impressed with Yates in preseason and don't see a need at QB, I think we could fill another depth hole. This is the only pick I don't like. I'd look for another OG/C/OT here or maybe a DE.
7. Diehl, he might also be available as an UDFA but he's a good pick in the 7th and saves us some money over Vickers.

Overall I like the depth this draft adds to the team.Thanks for input! I had Diehl in 7th then to UDFA then back. He fills a need & cheaper as a 7 than UDFA probably. Kubes may decide to keep Vickers due to experience.

Guy, is playing a hybrid LB this season which may help Kentucky (something needs to) but I wishe WInston was getting DB experience. He was on most of my mocks last year but decided to remain in school & it should help his draft rank.

Wright, I still have as a second but most others have him avail in 3rd so I dropped him a round.

beerlover
11-16-2011, 10:55 AM
Since we dont know if Schaub is going to return at 100 % QB has to move up the list. Unless Gary is sold on Yates being really improved over the next 2 yrs. To the point that Yates can be the long term answer at QB.

I really like Weeden, he has a great arm and although he is 28 yrs old, he's no Weinke. He has a much better arm. He should be ready to be the starter by age 30. That gives you 5-7 yrs of good QB play for a 3/4th rd pick.

What do you guys think of Tanneyhill? I could see him being the Texans 1st rd pick. Not that I'm on board with the pick.

I like Tanneyhill, similar to Schaub, better athletically & stronger arm. I wouldn't neccesarily give him 1st rd. Grade but could see Kubiak target similar type of QB, even if it means trading up in 2nd. For now let's just hope Leinart pans out & makes most of opportunity. This may be the right time in Texan franchise history when it does make sense to get serious about a legitimate successor long term to Matt Schaub, they certainly can't afford to pay both Matt's salary increases due post 2012 :money:

Dutchrudder
11-16-2011, 11:51 AM
What are your thoughts on Keenum? Many say he is a "system" QB, but would he do well on Texans roster?

System guy who has RBs & WRs turn a lot of short passes turn into long plays. He does make some deep throws, but I just don't see NFL starter potential out of him at this point. He would be a capable backup on a team like the Texans, but likely 3rd string. I like the fact that he's rather mobile, and on our team I could see him running the bootlegs really well and running for first downs more often than Schaub does.

In any case, I wouldn't waste a late pick on Keenum, as I don't think he will be any better than Yates. If we're going QB I would like to find a future Schaub replacement, not a 3rd string guy. I think spending a 2nd on Robert Griffin would be worth it as you get a lot more potential with him. Dunno if he will last that long or if he will draft, but if he's there I'd pull the trigger. I think we can afford to spend that much on him given the rest of our team.

Ndevine7
11-16-2011, 02:34 PM
I like Tanneyhill, similar to Schaub, better athletically & stronger arm. I wouldn't neccesarily give him 1st rd. Grade but could see Kubiak target similar type of QB, even if it means trading up in 2nd. For now let's just hope Leinart pans out & makes most of opportunity. This may be the right time in Texan franchise history when it does make sense to get serious about a legitimate successor long term to Matt Schaub, they certainly can't afford to pay both Matt's salary increases due post 2012 :money:

Tannehill is a very interesting prospect. Former WR that has converted to QB. Has good mobility which would be effective in our offense. Very raw talent that by the time he is drafted will have around 20 starts at QB in his college career. I think if he is available in the 3rd and Kubiak thinks he can work his magic with him i wouldnt be opposed to taking him.

badboy
11-16-2011, 02:38 PM
System guy who has RBs & WRs turn a lot of short passes turn into long plays. He does make some deep throws, but I just don't see NFL starter potential out of him at this point. He would be a capable backup on a team like the Texans, but likely 3rd string. I like the fact that he's rather mobile, and on our team I could see him running the bootlegs really well and running for first downs more often than Schaub does.

In any case, I wouldn't waste a late pick on Keenum, as I don't think he will be any better than Yates. If we're going QB I would like to find a future Schaub replacement, not a 3rd string guy. I think spending a 2nd on Robert Griffin would be worth it as you get a lot more potential with him. Dunno if he will last that long or if he will draft, but if he's there I'd pull the trigger. I think we can afford to spend that much on him given the rest of our team.Me, too but RG3 is rated top 15 & top 10 on some.

Dutchrudder
11-16-2011, 05:48 PM
Me, too but RG3 is rated top 15 & top 10 on some.

Really? That high? He's a junior, needs a lot of work, and doesn't seem like the type who can step in year 1 and start. I would think Luck, Barkley and Jones all come off the board ahead of him, which should push him down to the late 1st early 2nd round. I suppose we could get him with our 1st round pick in that case. Either way, if we're going QB, I would rather spend a 1st or 2nd this year, rather than keep picking QBs in the 5/6/7th rounds for the next 3 years and hoping for the next Brady.

Rey
11-16-2011, 05:54 PM
Really? That high? He's a junior, needs a lot of work, and doesn't seem like the type who can step in year 1 and start. I would think Luck, Barkley and Jones all come off the board ahead of him, which should push him down to the late 1st early 2nd round. I suppose we could get him with our 1st round pick in that case. Either way, if we're going QB, I would rather spend a 1st or 2nd this year, rather than keep picking QBs in the 5/6/7th rounds for the next 3 years and hoping for the next Brady.

Agreed. I keep hearing on this board that RG3 is a top 10 pick, but everywhere else I've looked he has been a 2nd rounder, late first at the earliest. I haven't seen anywhere that says he's top half of the draft material.

But even so, I never thought he'd be taken that high unless one of the other guys ahead of him fell off or unless someone had him ranked higher. Even so, there should still be a good QB on board with our first round pick and maybe even our second.

Dutchrudder
11-16-2011, 06:13 PM
Agreed. I keep hearing on this board that RG3 is a top 10 pick, but everywhere else I've looked he has been a 2nd rounder, late first at the earliest. I haven't seen anywhere that says he's top half of the draft material.

But even so, I never thought he'd be taken that high unless one of the other guys ahead of him fell off or unless someone had him ranked higher. Even so, there should still be a good QB on board with our first round pick and maybe even our second.

The only teams I could see picking him in the top 15 would be the Eagles or Dolphins. I think they both value scramble QBs more than other teams and would place a premium on a guy like RG3. But I don't think the Eagles want to spend a 1st on a QB having invested so much in Vick already (LB is #1 priority right now), and the Dolphins would probably be better off getting pocket QB than the super-wildcat guy.

badboy
11-17-2011, 06:07 PM
Really? That high? He's a junior, needs a lot of work, and doesn't seem like the type who can step in year 1 and start. I would think Luck, Barkley and Jones all come off the board ahead of him, which should push him down to the late 1st early 2nd round. I suppose we could get him with our 1st round pick in that case. Either way, if we're going QB, I would rather spend a 1st or 2nd this year, rather than keep picking QBs in the 5/6/7th rounds for the next 3 years and hoping for the next Brady.I saw a mock earlier this week that Mayock or Todd McSHay had Barkley dropping to late 20s. Playeres are gonna bounce all over up to draft day.

Rey
11-17-2011, 07:02 PM
I saw a mock earlier this week that Mayock or Todd McSHay had Barkley dropping to late 20s. Playeres are gonna bounce all over up to draft day.

Yeah that's true, but I think this will be a good class for qb's.