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Wolf
11-15-2011, 06:41 PM
after the QB sneak, he looked over at the Bucs Bench

http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs4/1156476_o.gif

thunderkyss
11-15-2011, 07:01 PM
TK... TK...
Slow down and take long, deep breaths.
Better? Heartrate down?
Good.

First, does Jacksonville have an offense that can run against the 2011 edition of the Texan defense? I'm thinking "no". We held MJD to 63 yds on 18 carries before. He did get into the endzone but that was with a little more than 5 minutes to go in the game.

We were able to get a lead in that game. They were predictable, our defense went to work.

It's possible, that we won't be able to make a first down on, their defense cause a turnover, get an easy score..... & we're playing from behind.

Second, our running game will not fall of the face of the Earth just because the guy who usually is handing off is hurt. Foster says he's just starting to "feel like himself" and Tate is on a mission to show that he's worth that 2nd round pick. We will stay on the field and control the clock.

Arian Foster gained 3.4 ypc..... MJD gained 3.5.... their running game didn't fall off the face of the Earth, their passing game was too weak to provide the necessary compliment.

If Lienart resorts to the guy he was in Arizona, we've effectively become the Jacksonville Jaguars.


Third, (and maybe this should have been first) our defense, which has forced turnovers from the likes of Roethlisberger, Flacco, and Brees is facing a rookie QB. Last time we faced him we picked him off twice. We've gotten at least one turnover in EVERY GAME; most games we get two. I look for our D to force him into more mistakes this time too.

This

:firehair::firehair::firehair:

must stop people.

Jaxonville has a defense too..

Wolf
11-15-2011, 07:04 PM
will be interesting with this also
TheRedzoneorg The Redzone
Jaguars lose CB Rashean Mathis to torn ACL http://tinyurl.com/7rtabhr #NFL #Jaguars

DocBar
11-15-2011, 07:09 PM
If it's Lisfranc, he's done for the year. Simple as that. That's a very delicate injury, but luckily Schaub is qb and doesn't need to run around too much. Obviously the Texans doctors know a lot more at this point than we do, but it would be very unwise imo to bring back Schaub before he's 100%.He has to push off with his foot, cross over during his back peddle, etc. A severe grade of Lisfranc could be very, very career threatening. The best news I've heard is that Schaub will be in a walking boot til next week when he's getting another opinion. The fact that he's being allowed to walk is cause for optimism. My biggest concern is for next year. A contract year and this injury? If Leinart plays merely OK it could lead to a controversy. We don't need this in my version of a Texans Super Bowl legacy that included a 3-peat.

CloakNNNdagger
11-15-2011, 07:09 PM
If it's Lisfranc, he's done for the year. Simple as that. That's a very delicate injury, but luckily Schaub is qb and doesn't need to run around too much. Obviously the Texans doctors know a lot more at this point than we do, but it would be very unwise imo to bring back Schaub before he's 100%.

On the possible good side, since he is not an RB or WR or or TE or DB or LB or lineman, his running ability or push off against resistance is not a hallmark of his game, even if it turns out to be a Lisfranc, his long term prognosis for a return and continued adequate performance eventually can still be possible.

thunderkyss
11-15-2011, 07:15 PM
Lot's of "if's" in all that TK. I see the point you're trying to make, but you can't make completely unrealistic assumptions about the Tacks while making very reasonable ones about the Texans.

I'll kiss your azz and give you an hour to draw a crowd if the Tacks win 4 out of their last 7. They could very easily lose 5 of their last 7, regardless of what CJ does.

All good points, but the point was not that the Titans will win out & we will. The point is that they are not so far behind that we need to go on some "incredible" losing streak.

I've got faith in the Texans, but I've always said 10 games won't necessarily win the AFC South.

DocBar
11-15-2011, 07:20 PM
On the possible good side, since he is not an RB or WR or or TE or DB or LB or lineman, his running ability or push off against resistance is not a hallmark of his game, even if it turns out to be a Lisfranc, his long term prognosis for a return and continued adequate performance eventually can still be possible.In all this, I've failed to recognize which foot has the injury. If it's his right foot, it could very well be a problem for the rest of Schaub's life. The part of the foot that involves Lisfranc injuries doesn't get injured often, but when it does, it's extremely painful and very susceptible to arthritis. What are your thoughts and opinions on this, CND?

Goatcheese
11-15-2011, 07:21 PM
I vote we cut Schaub's foot off and give him a prosthetic.

http://www.openthefuture.com/images/pistorius.jpg

Let's do this, you'll be fine. :jogger:

DocBar
11-15-2011, 07:22 PM
I vote we cut Schaub's foot off and give him a prosthetic.

http://www.openthefuture.com/images/pistorius.jpg

Let's do this, you'll be fine. :jogger:You're such a douche bag!!!! LOL

TejasTom
11-15-2011, 07:29 PM
In the interview on 610 tonight Schaub said his foot was the size of a cinder block right now.

Nawzer
11-15-2011, 08:01 PM
He has to push off with his foot, cross over during his back peddle, etc. A severe grade of Lisfranc could be very, very career threatening. The best news I've heard is that Schaub will be in a walking boot til next week when he's getting another opinion. The fact that he's being allowed to walk is cause for optimism. My biggest concern is for next year. A contract year and this injury? If Leinart plays merely OK it could lead to a controversy. We don't need this in my version of a Texans Super Bowl legacy that included a 3-peat.

You're right about him having to move around, but I was assuming that he would rehab well and that he won't have a mobility issue. But this is a type of injury that can be tricky, but I have confidence in the Texans medical staff and the top notch doctor(s) that are going to take care of him.

redwhiteANDblue
11-15-2011, 08:03 PM
after the QB sneak, he looked over at the Bucs Bench

http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs4/1156476_o.gif

Respawning new leg in 3..2...1

CloakNNNdagger
11-15-2011, 08:06 PM
In the interview on 610 tonight Schaub said his foot was the size of a cinder block right now.

Is this true or are you only joking?

Lurvinator11
11-15-2011, 08:09 PM
Is this true or are you only joking?

No he legit said that. I was listening as well and even made a comment on it in another thread

DocBar
11-15-2011, 08:10 PM
You're right about him having to move around, but I was assuming that he would rehab well and that he won't have a mobility issue. But this is a type of injury that can be tricky, but I have confidence in the Texans medical staff and the top notch doctor(s) that are going to take care of him.The best news I've heard from Fortress Kubiak is that Schaub is in a boot and allowed to walk. That's the best prognosis I can think of at this stage. Baby steps, my friend.

Nawzer
11-15-2011, 08:12 PM
In the interview on 610 tonight Schaub said his foot was the size of a cinder block right now.

Could be an inflammatory response just like how your gums may swell in response to a bacterial infection. I hope he doesn't wait too long to get it taken care of.

TexansFanatic
11-15-2011, 08:19 PM
Not an MRI but, I found this one of his X-Ray....




Tried to rep you. Freaking brilliant.

CloakNNNdagger
11-15-2011, 08:21 PM
No he legit said that. I was listening as well and even made a comment on it in another thread

That would be more consistent with a Lisfranc rather than an isolated fracture. And it doesn't surprise me that his foot would be blown up like that since he has been allowed to walk around in a boot with his foot in dependent (down) position instead of maintaining his foot elevated above his heart. I just don't get the latter at all. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that as a consequence a blood vessel popped giving additional cause for such extensive swelling.

DocBar
11-15-2011, 08:27 PM
That would be consistent with a Lisfranc rather than an isolated fracture. And it doesn't surprise me that his foot would be blown up like that since he has been allowed to walk around in a boot with his foot in dependent (down) position instead of maintaining his foot elevated above his heart. I just don't get the latter at all. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that as a consequence a blood vessel popped giving additional cause for such extensive swelling.Oh you just crapped on my heart. Is this Kubes NOT "being smart" with an injury? Could this have been made worse by Schaub playing an extra quarter? I'm already fairly convinced that the injury could've been lessened by Leinart coming in after the 1st drive of the 2nd half. The game was well in hand by then and the Texans could've gotten agme-time experience in for both back up QB's by then.

CloakNNNdagger
11-15-2011, 08:30 PM
In all this, I've failed to recognize which foot has the injury. If it's his right foot, it could very well be a problem for the rest of Schaub's life. The part of the foot that involves Lisfranc injuries doesn't get injured often, but when it does, it's extremely painful and very susceptible to arthritis. What are your thoughts and opinions on this, CND?

DocBar,

His injury was to the RIGHT foot. You are absolutely correct.... patients suffering Lisfranc injury virtually always are accompanied by chronic pain and the development of arthritic changes.......the extent is variable, but in some cases can be debilitating. With it being his plant foot, this could be of greater concern.

CloakNNNdagger
11-15-2011, 08:32 PM
Oh you just crapped on my heart. Is this Kubes NOT "being smart" with an injury? Could this have been made worse by Schaub playing an extra quarter? I'm already fairly convinced that the injury could've been lessened by Leinart coming in after the 1st drive of the 2nd half. The game was well in hand by then and the Texans could've gotten agme-time experience in for both back up QB's by then.

In my opening statement, I meant to say "MORE consistent."

GP
11-15-2011, 08:39 PM
...and the Texans could've gotten game-time experience in for both back up QB's by then.

This is my biggest gripe, too.

Leinart comes in and does nothing but hand off to the RB. There was not a single pass play, for obvious reasons--We had the lead, we were burning clock.

But still...it bothers me that Leinart's first pass play in a real game in 2011 comes after a bye week. And on the road. And against a decent defense.

I know we can't alter time and space. We can't undo what's been did. But it would have been nice to see Leinart get some passes out of his left hand vs. the Bucs when the game was far out of reach for Tampa Bay.

DocBar
11-15-2011, 08:40 PM
DocBar,

His injury was to the RIGHT foot. You are absolutely correct.... patients suffering Lisfranc injury virtually always are accompanied by chronic pain and the development of arthritic changes.......the extent is variable, but in some cases can be debilitating. With it being his plant foot, this could be of greater concern.Damn. Schaub has never been mobile, but this could be career ending. Even greater than that, this could be quality of life affecting. Having been a "professional" athlete, I feel for him. This is one of those injuries that can affect any and every movement he makes for the rest of his life. That's tough as hell to deal with and Schaub could very well call it a career after this season. Millions in the bank can't buy happiness or health. Just ask Al Davis if you have a Ouija board.

MEGA SWATT
11-15-2011, 08:44 PM
Damn. Schaub has never been mobile, but this could be career ending. Even greater than that, this could be quality of life affecting. Having been a "professional" athlete, I feel for him. This is one of those injuries that can affect any and every movement he makes for the rest of his life. That's tough as hell to deal with and Schaub could very well call it a career after this season. Millions in the bank can't buy happiness or health. Just ask Al Davis if you have a Ouija board.

Doubtful it will affect his quality of life as you commented. He will heal and be fine for everything short of running marathons imo.

As for football? That's a tough call - I'm not sure here.

CloakNNNdagger
11-16-2011, 12:57 AM
Doubtful it will affect his quality of life as you commented. He will heal and be fine for everything short of running marathons imo.

As for football? That's a tough call - I'm not sure here.

IF it is a Lisfranc, healing is complicated in patients who sustain this type of injury. The most common complication of the Lisfranc injury is post-traumatic arthritis of the joint. In the medical literature, it is quoted as high as 50% of those having sustained this injury. This post-traumatic arthritis mimics degenerative arthritis, but its course is accelerated because of severe injury to a joint. This can lead to chronic pain in the injured joint, and may necessitate fusion of the joint in order to prevent chronic debilitating pain.

It also ought to be pointed out that even in the cases of isolated midfoot metatarsal fractures, the development of the arthritis and chronic pain can still be a significant long term problem.

HJam72
11-16-2011, 09:38 AM
IF it is a Lisfranc, healing is complicated in patients who sustain this type of injury. The most common complication of the Lisfranc injury is post-traumatic arthritis of the joint. In the medical literature, it is quoted as high as 50% of those having sustained this injury. This post-traumatic arthritis mimics degenerative arthritis, but its course is accelerated because of severe injury to a joint. This can lead to chronic pain in the injured joint, and may necessitate fusion of the joint in order to prevent chronic debilitating pain.

It also ought to be pointed out that even in the cases of isolated midfoot metatarsal fractures, the development of the arthritis and chronic pain can still be a significant long term problem.

Wonderful. :sarcasm:

I assume this means total and permanent loss of joint mobility.

michaelm
11-16-2011, 09:47 AM
Yeah, I need to apologize to ChampionTexan for my snarky attitude. I wasn't in the best of moods when I read the article. I am d-o-w-n about the loss of Schaub.

That's the article I was referring to. Nobody's going to believe me but I PROMISE you they CHANGED that sentence to wouldn't. It originally said Kubiak confirmed.


It's all good, Nitro. No one can blame you for being a bit edgy considering the shocking Schaub news.
Also, we all know you're an ahole, :neener: so I'm sure nobody was surprised by your response!

michaelm
11-16-2011, 09:54 AM
IF it is a Lisfranc, healing is complicated in patients who sustain this type of injury. The most common complication of the Lisfranc injury is post-traumatic arthritis of the joint. In the medical literature, it is quoted as high as 50% of those having sustained this injury. This post-traumatic arthritis mimics degenerative arthritis, but its course is accelerated because of severe injury to a joint. This can lead to chronic pain in the injured joint, and may necessitate fusion of the joint in order to prevent chronic debilitating pain.

It also ought to be pointed out that even in the cases of isolated midfoot metatarsal fractures, the development of the arthritis and chronic pain can still be a significant long term problem.

I know exactly squat about medicine, but this Lis Franc person is a freakin dick! Dontya think?

HOU-TEX
11-16-2011, 10:03 AM
I know exactly squat about medicine, but this Lis Franc person is a freakin dick! Dontya think?

No kiddin. Dude needs his ass whooped

CloakNNNdagger
11-16-2011, 10:07 AM
Wonderful. :sarcasm:

I assume this means total and permanent loss of joint mobility.

Keep in mind that fusion would be a worse case scenario. (so let's not put the cart before the horse) Prior to its implementation, orthotics are usually tested. If a fusion is deemed "necessary" in the future of these patients, it tends to itself also affect their mobility and their gait...........and, furthermore, fusion is no guarantee that the pain will be resolved.

NitroGSXR
11-16-2011, 10:24 AM
It's all good, Nitro. No one can blame you for being a bit edgy considering the shocking Schaub news.
Also, we all know you're an ahole, :neener: so I'm sure nobody was surprised by your response!

Speaking of you... Can you fix my sig if you still have whatever you need to do it with? It's a little outdated. Cushing, Joseph and... somebody else. I like 'em all.

Marcus
11-17-2011, 02:49 PM
DocBar,

His injury was to the RIGHT foot. You are absolutely correct.... patients suffering Lisfranc injury virtually always are accompanied by chronic pain and the development of arthritic changes.......the extent is variable, but in some cases can be debilitating. With it being his plant foot, this could be of greater concern.

Sorry in advance for not keeping up with your posts, Cloak. (And thanks for the rep in the other thread. Deja Vu all over again, ay?)

One of the last things I got back from my lisfranc was foot balance. And that won't come until he gets every single bit of his leg strength back. And he isn't even going to get frustrated until after he get's his cast off. The whole time he has that cast on, he's gonna be sittin on his ass with the foot higher than his heart.

Wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Sway
11-17-2011, 06:32 PM
I've tried to learn more specifics about this injury, but I'm still shady. Does anyone have a diagram etc. to show exactly what bones, joints, tendons are affected?

Texan_Bill
11-17-2011, 06:48 PM
http://www.aafp.org/afp/1998/0701/afp19980701p118-f4.jpg

http://onlineusapost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/lisfranc.jpg

SheTexan
11-17-2011, 07:01 PM
I've tried to learn more specifics about this injury, but I'm still shady. Does anyone have a diagram etc. to show exactly what bones, joints, tendons are affected?

They had a diagram in the Chroc ragsheet this past week, Tuesday I think.

Question for Jean! Would a dislocation rather than a fracture take the same amount of time healing? Would he still need surgery, or would time take care of the problem? It seems that after all the edema goes down, and he heals from the bruising, if it was a dislocation and not a fracture, he might be good to go in about 5-6 wks. How would this effect the ligament in that part of his foot? I know it is the strongest ligament in the body, but, I don't know if the injury caused damage to that ligament. Just wondering! THANKS!

EllisUnit
11-17-2011, 08:17 PM
http://www.aafp.org/afp/1998/0701/afp19980701p118-f4.jpg

http://onlineusapost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/lisfranc.jpg

awwww what a *****, dont he know we're trying to win a superbowl here :splits:

CloakNNNdagger
11-17-2011, 08:30 PM
They had a diagram in the Chroc ragsheet this past week, Tuesday I think.

Question for Jean! Would a dislocation rather than a fracture take the same amount of time healing? Would he still need surgery, or would time take care of the problem? It seems that after all the edema goes down, and he heals from the bruising, if it was a dislocation and not a fracture, he might be good to go in about 5-6 wks. How would this effect the ligament in that part of his foot? I know it is the strongest ligament in the body, but, I don't know if the injury caused damage to that ligament. Just wondering! THANKS!

Sandy,

The Lisfranc joint actually includes ALL 5 of the metatarsal-tarsal bone joints....not just the 1st and 2nd.

http://www.footphysicians.com/uploadedImages/FootHealthFactscom/Foot_an_Ankle_Conditions/English/lisfrancfinalillus.jpg


The reason that the involvement of the 2nd is classic is because the 2nd metatarsal bone is the longest and therefore easiest jammed. This second metatarsal also (unlike the others) extends down INTO the row of small bones and acts as a STABILIZING FORCE (see TB's illustration above). The bones are held in place by connective tissues (ligaments) that stretch both across and down the foot as noted in the illustration below.

http://mcqs.leedsmedics.org.uk/Year%202/C&MT2/Clips/ankle2.jpg

However, there is no connective tissue holding the first metatarsal to the second metatarsal (in other words, no "across" [horizontal] ligament, just the diagonal ligament that spans from one of the tarsal bones to the base of the 2nd metatarsal giving it much less support than the other joints) A twisting fall can break or shift (dislocate) these bones out of place.


If there is a dislocation, the remaining supporting ligament would have been torn and the joint and foot be rendered unstable. In most cases, it is the JOINT DISRUPTION that is the most devastating part of this injury NOT and fracture. Even with conservative non-operative approach in the case of a minimally disruptive joint, a non-weight-bearing immobilizing appliance would have to be placed for at least 6-8 weeks, leaving you with the need to rehab just for range of motion initially and then for strength, not to mention the last stage of football-readying/conditioning. And we can't forget that the Texans have admitted to a "fracture," so IF it is a Lisfranc, this would complicate things even more. If the Texans choose to, for whatever reason, try to treat a Lisfranc that would best be more appropriately be treated with surgery with conservative means, the stability may never in the end be gained, and the surgery be necessitated anyway. In such a case, the retrauma to the joint of this injury along with the delay of definitive surgical treatment could worsen the ultimate prognosis.

I hope this answers at least some of your questions.:tiphat:

BTW, the Lisfranc ligament is the strongest ligament of these tarsal-metatarsal joints (you may have meant to say that), but the iliofemoral ligament of the hip is the strongest ligament in the body.

[EDIT: Also see my complementary post #540 on the next page.]

CloakNNNdagger
11-17-2011, 08:35 PM
awwww what a *****, dont he know we're trying to win a superbowl here :splits:

Haynesworth forgot to tell him.

CloakNNNdagger
11-17-2011, 09:12 PM
http://www.aafp.org/afp/1998/0701/afp19980701p118-f4.jpg

http://onlineusapost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/lisfranc.jpg

Thanks for the pics..........It helped to illustrate my above response. Must spread the rep.

Texan_Bill
11-17-2011, 09:28 PM
Thanks for the pics..........It helped to illustrate my above response. Must spread the rep.

Doc, I knew if I threw out some elementary visuals that you would follow up with better depictions and with extrordinary explanations! Thanks, as usual!!

CloakNNNdagger
11-17-2011, 10:23 PM
Here could be the most likely type of injury (which includes a Lisfranc with "fracture") that has the Texans in a quandry whether they should take the chance of going conservative.

The x-ray demonstrates some abnormal separation between the bases of the 1st and 2nd metatarsal bones along with the "fleck sign." The fleck sign reflects a small bone fragment avulsed by and still attached to the Lisfranc ligament (look at he 5 o'clock position of the circle............this is where the diagonal Lisfranc ligament attaches to the rectangular tarsal bone (the other end attaches to the base of the 2nd metatarsal bone, around the 9 o'clock position). If you look carefully at the 5 o'clock position again you will see an irregular space of the tarsal bone surface which reflects a piece of the bone being fractured off of the tarsal bone proper.

http://www.foothyperbook.com/images/midfootTrauma/fleckSign.jpg

ObsiWan
11-19-2011, 04:59 PM
Here could be the most likely type of injury (which includes a Lisfranc with "fracture") that has the Texans in a quandry whether they should take the chance of going conservative.

The x-ray demonstrates some abnormal separation between the bases of the 1st and 2nd metatarsal bones along with the "fleck sign." The fleck sign reflects a small bone fragment avulsed by and still attached to the Lisfranc ligament (look at he 5 o'clock position of the circle............this is where the diagonal Lisfranc ligament attaches to the rectangular tarsal bone (the other end attaches to the base of the 2nd metatarsal bone, around the 9 o'clock position). If you look carefully at the 5 o'clock position again you will see an irregular space of the tarsal bone surface which reflects a piece of the bone being fractured off of the tarsal bone proper.

http://www.foothyperbook.com/images/midfootTrauma/fleckSign.jpg

So the surgery would be to go in and remove the bone chip...??
...if there is one...

CloakNNNdagger
11-19-2011, 05:35 PM
So the surgery would be to go in and remove the bone chip...??
...if there is one...

"Conservative" would mean NO surgery.........just relying on positioning the joint anatomically and immobilizing it in that position. Remember, this type of approach would be very IFFY.

ObsiWan
11-19-2011, 05:43 PM
"Conservative" would mean NO surgery.........just relying on positioning the joint anatomically and immobilizing it in that position. Remember, this type of approach would be very IFFY.

I don't get that. Seems like the conservative thing - which in my mind equates to best possible recovery state in the long term - would be to surgically repair the foot; even if it means sitting out the rest of the year.

By "conservative" did you mean "least invasive"??

CloakNNNdagger
11-19-2011, 05:44 PM
I just came across another better and simpler illustration that demonstrates what I tried to point out as the unique relationship of the ligament and 1st and 2nd metatarsal bones:

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger
However, there is NO connective tissue holding the first metatarsal to the second metatarsal (in other words, no "across" [horizontal] ligament, just the diagonal ligament that spans from one of the tarsal bones to the base of the 2nd metatarsal giving it much less support than the other joints) A twisting fall can break or shift (dislocate) these bones out of place.

Click HERE (http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1024&bih=602&tbm=isch&tbnid=WTQysas-blev7M:&imgrefurl=http://www.msd.com.mx/secure/ebooks/RockwoodWilkinsFracturesinChildren/sid766302.html&docid=EWYZkdYrmyxE8M&itg=1&imgurl=http://www.msd.com.mx/secure/ebooks/RockwoodWilkinsFracturesinChildren/files/bd4b50e4b27958d2c3ba6858762efbba.gif&w=300&h=390&ei=UTzITpfXIISQ2QXxqcHXDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=703&vpy=213&dur=10722&hovh=256&hovw=197&tx=82&ty=117&sig=109875733349971236668&page=3&tbnh=120&tbnw=92&start=39&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:39)(the 1st metatarsal is on the apparent right of this illustration)

CloakNNNdagger
11-19-2011, 05:46 PM
I don't get that. Seems like the conservative thing - which in my mind equates to best possible recovery state in the long term - would be to surgically repair the foot; even if it means sitting out the rest of the year.

By "conservative" did you mean "least invasive"??

Sorry, in situations like this, in medical terms, "conservative" means non-operative (or least invasive).

ObsiWan
11-19-2011, 05:51 PM
Sorry, in situations like this, in medical terms, "conservative" means non-operative (or least invasive).

Thanks Dr. J.
:tiphat:
Although I'm still a little unclear as to the relative recovery times...

CloakNNNdagger
11-19-2011, 06:16 PM
Thanks Dr. J.
:tiphat:
Although I'm still a little unclear as to the relative recovery times...


Basically, if he goes to surgery, screws will be left in place 3-6 months during which time, he cannot weight bear at all (and probably 3-6 more months to rehab)...................out for the season definitely.

If in the very unlikely case that conservative approach (non-operative) even works, 6-8 weeks immobilized in boot.....and rehab another 2-3 weeks........plus getting into true football "condition"???........... (with good chance of the foot losing alignment when stressed)

Personally, I don't give him much of a chance to come back this season anywhere functionally intact either way..............of course, I could always be wrong......

wolf123
11-19-2011, 07:46 PM
Basically, if he goes to surgery, screws will be left in place 3-6 months during which time, he cannot weight bear at all (and probably 3-6 more months to rehab)...................out for the season definitely.

If in the very unlikely case that conservative approach (non-operative) even works, 6-8 weeks immobilized in boot.....and rehab another 2-3 weeks........plus getting into true football "condition"???........... (with good chance of the foot losing alignment when stressed)

Personally, I don't give him much of a chance to come back this season anywhere functionally intact either way..............of course, I could always be wrong......

How long would he be out if Mr. Miagi(karate kid) got a hold of him?:splits:

CloakNNNdagger
11-19-2011, 08:29 PM
How long would he be out if Mr. Miagi(karate kid) got a hold of him?:splits:

Wipe on........Wipe off........still Wiped out.........:pop:

SAMURAITEXAN
11-19-2011, 08:55 PM
Wipe on........Wipe off........still Wiped out.........:pop:

Ha ha good one Doc. BTW, it is MIYAGI not MIAGI.

Go Texans!!!

PapaL
11-19-2011, 09:50 PM
Sooooooo we're probably looking at drafting that QB of the future sooner rather than later?

Marcus
11-19-2011, 11:01 PM
Sooooooo we're probably looking at drafting that QB of the future sooner rather than later?

This may, or may not, be a career ending injury.

But they most certainly should draft as if it were.

GNTLEWOLF
11-20-2011, 12:14 AM
This may, or may not, be a career ending injury.

But they most certainly should draft as if it were.

Surely, as smart as the Texans FO is they have already forseen this. I wonder if they have anybody in mind, or if they are just going with the Luck of the draw....:winky:

PapaL
11-20-2011, 12:16 AM
I guess it all depends on how #11 plays. RGIII would look mighty good in Steel Blue. Kid impressed me today.

Doppelganger
11-20-2011, 12:28 AM
I guess it all depends on how #11 plays. RGIII would look mighty good in Steel Blue. Kid impressed me today.

RGIII has all but played himself into the first round. I seriously doubt the Texans take a QB within the first 3 rounds. First 2 rounds are expected to start or play STs. They may take one in the 4th, but remember, Yates was JUST drafted last year. Kubes may see him as a successor.

PapaL
11-20-2011, 12:42 AM
RGIII has all but played himself into the first round. I seriously doubt the Texans take a QB within the first 3 rounds. First 2 rounds are expected to start or play STs. They may take one in the 4th, but remember, Yates was JUST drafted last year. Kubes may see him as a successor.

I agree completely. Sure would be nice to have him on the bench for a couple years. A guy w that speed AND a big arm in our system would look mighty good. #PipeDream

msbbc833
11-20-2011, 12:49 AM
Wipe on........Wipe off........still Wiped out.........:pop:

Just wondering, are you an MSK radiologist?

HJam72
11-20-2011, 04:07 AM
RGIII? Is that one of those robot players?

SheTexan
11-20-2011, 06:11 AM
RGIII? Is that one of those robot players?


OK, I'll ask! I don't watch a lot of college games, SOOOOO, who is RGIII? Thanks!

otisbean
11-20-2011, 06:54 AM
OK, I'll ask! I don't watch a lot of college games, SOOOOO, who is RGIII? Thanks!

Robert Griffin the 3rd, QB for the Baylor Bears. He had a phenomenal game last night against the Sooners. Love to have the kid on the Texans but it's a pipe dream as he will highly sought after with his skill set.

Peldon
11-20-2011, 06:57 AM
OK, I'll ask! I don't watch a lot of college games, SOOOOO, who is RGIII? Thanks!

Robert Griffin III - Baylor QB

SheTexan
11-20-2011, 07:50 AM
THANKS guys! I even watched that game last night and didn't pick up on the name!! Just don't pay that much attention, my bad, and I'm a Baylor fan. The old "Baptist" in me I guess. Always wanted to go there, but, ended up at HBU instead. A college with NO football!! go figure!!idonno:

CloakNNNdagger
11-20-2011, 08:00 AM
THANKS guys! I even watched that game last night and didn't pick up on the name!! Just don't pay that much attention, my bad, and I'm a Baylor fan. The old "Baptist" in me I guess. Always wanted to go there, but, ended up at HBU instead. A college with NO football!! go figure!!idonno:

Probably gave you a chance to pay attention to studying more.............Sorry it screwed up your football career........But it made you a damned good nurse!:ok:

SheTexan
11-20-2011, 08:07 AM
Probably gave you a chance to pay attention to studying more.............Sorry it screwed up your football career........But it made you a damned good nurse!:ok:

Thanks Jean!! I think it's about time for that "nursing" career to come to an end! Retirement's sounding mighty good these days.

Thorn
11-20-2011, 08:09 AM
Thanks Jean!! I think it's about time for that "nursing" career to come to an end! Retirement's sounding mighty good these days.

Yes, it is. It most certainly is. :)

PapaL
11-20-2011, 10:44 AM
On the bright side Matt Leinart did spend his off week working w Ken O'Brien, guy that was working Carson Palmer back into game shape. Let's see how this all plays out.

steelbtexan
11-20-2011, 08:37 PM
Doc ?

Could continuing to play on his injury or simply walking around on the sideline made things worse?

CloakNNNdagger
11-20-2011, 08:51 PM
Doc ?

Could continuing to play on his injury or simply walking around on the sideline made things worse?

Your question that has been asked but not really answered before, is would continuing to play on this injury and walking on it even in the boot on the sidelines have made things worse?

Many orthopedic studies have demonstrated that the most important prognostic factor in Lisfranc is directly related to the obtaining correct anatomic reduction. It has been shown that those patients with an adequate anatomic reduction obtain a higher score in functional scale and present a lower prevalence of post-traumatic degenerative disease of the joint.

Taking a conservative (nonsurgical) approach by choosing the use of closed (nonincisional) reduction (of the joint and fracture) and cast boot is not usually advocated in this type of injury since it carries with it a high rate of reduction loss of anatomic alignment (and thus loss of the functionally important normal arch of the foot).

Emergency (immediate) surgical treatment with open reduction and internal fixation is considered the most ideal approach in that it gives the more stable fixation, lower rate of secondary displacement and lower risk of secondary osteoarthritis. I say "emergency" surgery, meaning before the massive swelling that can occur if the diagnosis is not made and acted on immediately. In most cases, the significant swelling is not immediate (especially in the more moderate injuries and if the foot is immediately iced, compressed and elevated) but maximizes at ~48 hours after which you may need to wait for 7-10 days before the swelling resolves enough that you can more accurately and more safely perform the surgery. This delay in surgery could lead to some compromise of the anatomic reduction. The ideal would be performing the surgery within 12-24 hours following the injury.

Certainly, allowing continued weight bearing either out of or in a boot encourages further separation and misalignment of the joint(s), and damage to the involved tendons and surrounding blood vessels and nerves, while guaranteeing the acceleration and maximization of the undesireable swelling process.

I have found out that Schaub will be seeing Dr. Robert Anderson in Charlottsville. He is a Lisfranc specialist who has been involved in the care of a number of NFL players with this problem. Brady Quinn, Ronnie Brown, and Eric Decker are a few that come to mind.

DocBar
11-20-2011, 09:01 PM
Your question that has been asked but not really answered before, is would continuing to play on this injury and walking on it even in the boot on the sidelines have made things worse?

Many orthopedic studies have demonstrated that the most important prognostic factor in Lisfranc is directly related to the obtaining correct anatomic reduction. It has been shown that those patients with an adequate anatomic reduction obtain a higher score in functional scale and present a lower prevalence of post-traumatic degenerative disease of the joint.

Taking a conservative (nonsurgical) approach by choosing the use of closed (nonincisional) reduction (of the joint and fracture) and cast boot is not usually advocated in this type of injury since it carries with it a high rate of reduction loss of anatomic alignment (and thus loss of the functionally important normal arch of the foot).

Emergency (immediate) surgical treatment with open reduction and internal fixation is considered the most ideal approach in that it gives the more stable fixation, lower rate of secondary displacement and lower risk of secondary osteoarthritis. I say "emergency" surgery, meaning before the massive swelling that can occur if the diagnosis is not made and acted on immediately. In most cases, the significant swelling is not immediate (especially in the more moderate injuries and if the foot is immediately iced, compressed and elevated) but maximizes at ~48 hours after which you may need to wait for 7-10 days before the swelling resolves enough that you can more accurately and more safely perform the surgery. This delay in surgery could lead to some compromise of the anatomic reduction. The ideal would be performing the surgery within 12-24 hours following the injury.

Certainly, allowing continued weight bearing either out of or in a boot encourages further separation and misalignment of the joint(s), and damage to the involved tendons and surrounding blood vessels and nerves, while guaranteeing the acceleration and maximization of the undesireable swelling process.

I have found out that Schaub will be seeing Dr. Robert Anderson in Charlottsville. He is a Lisfranc specialist who has been involved in the care of a number of NFL players with this problem. Brady Quinn, Ronnie Brown, and Eric Decker are a few that come to mind.If I read this correctly, Schaub could've easily excarbated the situation by continuing to play after the injury. Schaub being on record as saying his foot's the size of a cinder block precludes any question of emergency surgury. This leads to the logical conclusion that we can look forward to Leinart the rest of the season and hope and pray that Schaub is healthy by TC next year. Is that a correct assessment of the facts, so far?

CloakNNNdagger
11-20-2011, 09:28 PM
If I read this correctly, Schaub could've easily excarbated the situation by continuing to play after the injury. Schaub being on record as saying his foot's the size of a cinder block precludes any question of emergency surgury. This leads to the logical conclusion that we can look forward to Leinart the rest of the season and hope and pray that Schaub is healthy by TC next year. Is that a correct assessment of the facts, so far?

It's probably pretty much right on IF we are getting anywhere close to the true diagnosis.

The question we do not have answered is what will the final approach to Schaub's injury be..........nonsurgical or surgical.

This is the answer I posted to Obsiwan as to what I feel would be a realistic expectation for this season in either case (with the limited information we have):

Basically, if he goes to surgery, screws will be left in place 3-6 months during which time, he cannot weight bear at all (and probably 3-6 more months to rehab)...................out for the season definitely.

If in the very unlikely case that conservative approach (non-operative) even works, 6-8 weeks immobilized in boot.....and rehab another 2-3 weeks........plus getting into true football "condition"???........... (with good chance of the foot losing alignment when stressed)

Personally, I don't give him much of a chance to come back this season anywhere functionally intact either way..............of course, I could always be wrong......

steelbtexan
11-20-2011, 09:38 PM
Reading that Quinn,Brown and Decker made it back from this injury gives me hope that Schaub will be fine next yr.

What worries me is Brown is a shell of his former self and Bryant Westbrook was never the same after sustaining these injuries. Along with the fact that Schaub wasn't exactly mobile pre-injury. What are the odds Schaub loses a step or two?

If they are good now should be the time for the Texans to start looking for another QB. Mobility is a big requirement for the WC offense and as you know he doesn't have a step or two to lose.

CloakNNNdagger
11-20-2011, 10:11 PM
Reading that Quinn,Brown and Decker made it back from this injury gives me hope that Schaub will be fine next yr.

What worries me is Brown is a shell of his former self and Bryant Westbrook was never the same after sustaining these injuries. Along with the fact that Schaub wasn't exactly mobile pre-injury. What are the odds Schaub loses a step or two?

If they are good now should be the time for the Texans to start looking for another QB. Mobility is a big requirement for the WC offense and as you know he doesn't have a step or two to lose.

A QB probably has less to lose with a loss of mobility and pushoff than an RB or WR or any other player for that matter. How much Schaub will be affected long term is not predictable.........but one thing for sure........he won't come out of this MORE mobile.at this point. But this year, Schaub we now find out has been playing through hip and shoulder problems besides this latest injury. It appears that these injuries have affected his performance this year.

The Texans should be very honest in their assessments. If appropriate to the total picture, if there is any concern as to his longevity, at minimum there should be a concerted effort to seek a worthy #2 that has a good chance of being turned into a legitimate #1 QB (if not Leinart, then someone else).

b0ng
11-20-2011, 10:15 PM
Pretty sure Freeney had the same kind of injury some years back.

CloakNNNdagger
11-21-2011, 02:18 PM
Texans' Schaub to see foot specialist Wednesday in Charlotte

NFL.com Wire Reports
Published: Nov. 21, 2011 at 01:48 p.m.
Updated: Nov. 21, 2011 at 02:49 p.m.


Houston Texans quarterback Matt Schaub won't see a foot specialist until later this week to get another look at the right foot injury that could end his season, according to NFL.com senior writer Steve Wyche.

Schaub was injured during the Texans' 37-9 victory over Tampa Bay on Nov. 13 before the team's bye week. The initial diagnosis showed he suffered a significant injury, but Schaub and the team are seeking another opinion to determine if there is any chance he could return this season.

"He will make his trip to Charlotte tomorrow and he will be looked at Wednesday morning," Texans coach Gary Kubiak said. "We'll hold out hope on Matt ... He's in a boot. We're trying to keep him into what we're doing mentally."

The delay in Schaub seeing the specialist stems from the doctor being unavailable last week, a source told Wyche.

The Texans haven't confirmed reports that Schaub injured the Lisfranc joint in his foot. Schaub said the injury occurred when his foot was caught underneath Buccaneers defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth on a quarterback sneak, and acknowledged last week "it doesn't look good."

Marcus
11-21-2011, 04:28 PM
It's kinda weird to look at this from the experience I had from my LisFranc injury. You have to keep that foot elevated higher than your heart during the entire time you can't put any weight on it, in which case causes atrophy in the entire leg.

Like Cloak, I wish I knew more details. It would interest me greatly to know what kind of surgery is in store, like how many plates and screws, is fusion being considered, will they need to do a bone graft, etc.

So just going from what little I know, I will be shocked if he's ready for training camp next season. He throws right handed, which means he needs to plant on his right (injured) foot. I'm not concerned about any decrease in mobility. What I am concerned about, is his future ability to accurately throw the ball. Any stiffness, weakness, or imbalance, in the arch of his plant foot will have a direct effect on accuracy.

RTP2110
11-22-2011, 11:11 AM
So Schaub is going to see specialists in Charlotte and Indianapolis. Looking at our schedule I see the panthers and Colts coming up soon. If those specialists recommend surgery, we will know why! Consipracy I tell you!


kidding of course.

CloakNNNdagger
11-22-2011, 12:19 PM
I just came across another better and simpler illustration that demonstrates what I tried to point out as the unique relationship of the ligament and 1st and 2nd metatarsal bones:



Click HERE (http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1024&bih=602&tbm=isch&tbnid=WTQysas-blev7M:&imgrefurl=http://www.msd.com.mx/secure/ebooks/RockwoodWilkinsFracturesinChildren/sid766302.html&docid=EWYZkdYrmyxE8M&itg=1&imgurl=http://www.msd.com.mx/secure/ebooks/RockwoodWilkinsFracturesinChildren/files/bd4b50e4b27958d2c3ba6858762efbba.gif&w=300&h=390&ei=UTzITpfXIISQ2QXxqcHXDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=703&vpy=213&dur=10722&hovh=256&hovw=197&tx=82&ty=117&sig=109875733349971236668&page=3&tbnh=120&tbnw=92&start=39&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:39)(the 1st metatarsal is on the apparent right of this illustration)

EDIT: finally got above link diagram to print out here directly (note that there is no horizontal stabilizing ligament connecting the 1st and 2nd metatarsal bones.):
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuU1n9IaQos_m9aV4vIsoZMaIsvgd2T F6QN2IDlX7LbdFmQpI8SzC-KAAJ

ObsiWan
11-22-2011, 03:39 PM
EDIT: finally got above link diagram to print out here directly (note that there is no horizontal stabilizing ligament connecting the 1st and 2nd metatarsal bones.):
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuU1n9IaQos_m9aV4vIsoZMaIsvgd2T F6QN2IDlX7LbdFmQpI8SzC-KAAJ
Why that's just poor engineering. Who's responsible for this?
:foottap:




j/k

CloakNNNdagger
11-22-2011, 04:26 PM
Why that's just poor engineering. Who's responsible for this?
:foottap:




j/k

G-d only knows!:spin:

Malloy
11-22-2011, 05:13 PM
Why that's just poor engineering. Who's responsible for this?
:foottap:




j/k

Blame Canada?

Goatcheese
11-22-2011, 05:38 PM
Blame Canada?

With their beady little eyes and flapping heads so full of lies?

ObsiWan
11-22-2011, 08:02 PM
Blame Canada?

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSI7Sgap4Fla_K79z6FKLQxRiLYv1Yd5 g1z0FE0enG1tKotq0uqPQ
incomplete without a pic
:D

Naiirb
11-23-2011, 03:23 PM
According to McClain

I feel terrible for Schaub. He led Texans to 7-3 start before the Lisfranc injury that includes a "couple of small fractures."

multiple fractures eek

CloakNNNdagger
11-23-2011, 04:14 PM
According to McClain



multiple fractures eek

If there were multiple fractures involved in the Lisfranc, I can't even imagine a scenario where surgery would not have been the only realistic and prudent treatment from the beginning. I guess the beads and gords approach didn't impress the 2nd and 3rd opinions either.

The Pencil Neck
11-23-2011, 04:43 PM
If there were multiple fractures involved in the Lisfranc, I can't even imagine a scenario where surgery would not have been the only realistic and prudent treatment from the beginning. I guess the beads and gords approach didn't impress the 2nd and 3rd opinions either.

The guy wanted to play. He wanted to cash in on all the hard work he's put in to get to this point. If we make it to the playoffs, Schaub (and Mario, but mostly Schaub) is like Moses. He led us to the promised land but didn't get to go there himself.

He was just hoping to find someone to give him the chance to go to the promised land.

Ryan
11-23-2011, 04:45 PM
The guy wanted to play. He wanted to cash in on all the hard work he's put in to get to this point. If we make it to the playoffs, Schaub (and Mario, but mostly Schaub) is like Moses. He led us to the promised land but didn't get to go there himself.

He was just hoping to find someone to give him the chance to go to the promised land.


This was my ultimate fear with Andre. Him being the biggest part of our team for such a long time and him not being able to be a part of it this year when all he's ever wanted is to win. Hopefully he can stay healthy the remainder of the year and hopefully through our SB run. :hurrah:

Doppelganger
11-23-2011, 04:50 PM
If there were multiple fractures involved in the Lisfranc, I can't even imagine a scenario where surgery would not have been the only realistic and prudent treatment from the beginning. I guess the beads and gords approach didn't impress the 2nd and 3rd opinions either.

Doc,
Perhaps you have answered this question, if so I apologize ahead of time.

With the revelation that there were multiple fractures and we appear to be looking at a probable LisFranc injury, it appears that surgery may be the only option. What kind of time frame would you estimate for return to play recovery time? Is this the kind of injury that may take away 2012 as well?

thunderkyss
11-23-2011, 05:11 PM
If there were multiple fractures involved in the Lisfranc, I can't even imagine a scenario where surgery would not have been the only realistic and prudent treatment from the beginning. I guess the beads and gords approach didn't impress the 2nd and 3rd opinions either.

Just because McClain says there were multiple fractures doesn't mean there were multiple fractures.

He was probably eying the donuts when they were going over the details.

Marcus
11-23-2011, 05:40 PM
I'm betting those "small fractures" were avulsion fractures. The LisFranc ligament is actually stronger than bone, so instead of the ligament tearing away from bone, you have ligament tearing off small pieces of bone.

Regarding recovery time, remember, he hasn't even had surgery yet.

TejasTom
11-23-2011, 07:05 PM
He was probably eying the donuts when they were going over the details.

So true. I want confirmation from another source.

CloakNNNdagger
11-23-2011, 10:46 PM
Doc,
Perhaps you have answered this question, if so I apologize ahead of time.

With the revelation that there were multiple fractures and we appear to be looking at a probable LisFranc injury, it appears that surgery may be the only option. What kind of time frame would you estimate for return to play recovery time? Is this the kind of injury that may take away 2012 as well?

Following the anticipated surgery, screws will be left in place 3-6 months, during which time he cannot weight bear at all. Then probably another 3-6 more months to adequately rehab.

After that, taking for granted that the actual surgery was successful, there can be residual stiffness of the foot and at least 50% develop arthritis with accompanying chronic pain. The degree of severity of the aforementioned essentially dictates the long-term effects on performance. As I have mentioned, performance deficits would more likely to be noticed in players that require a great deal of push off against resistance and those likely to require landing forcefully on the ball of the foot. Of all the positions, it seems likely that the QB position would be one of the least affected. If there is a problem with a QB, it would likely be in an affected plant foot (as is the case of Schaub), where the strength and accuracy of a throw can be significantly impacted.

Schaub has a very good chance of coming back, but only time will tell us if he will end up in the fortunate group that is little affected, or if his long-term performance takes somewhat of a downturn.

ObsiWan
11-23-2011, 10:55 PM
Following the anticipated surgery, screws will be left in place 3-6 months, during which time he cannot weight bear at all. Then probably another 3-6 more months to adequately rehab.

After that, taking for granted that the actual surgery was successful, there can be residual stiffness of the foot and at least 50% develop arthritis with accompanying chronic pain. The degree of severity of the aforementioned essentially dictates the long-term effects on performance. As I have mentioned, performance deficits would more likely to be noticed in players that require a great deal of push off against resistance and those likely to require landing forcefully on the ball of the foot. Of all the positions, it seems likely that the QB position would be one of the least affected. If there is a problem with a QB, it would likely be in an affected plant foot (as is the case of Schaub), where the strength and accuracy of a throw can be significantly impacted.

Schaub has a very good chance of coming back, but only time will tell us if he will end up in the fortunate group that is little affected, or if his long-term performance takes somewhat of a downturn.

ugh...
so worse case, we're looking at the beginning of OTAs and mini-camp next year before the screws are even taken out. Then all of training camp and preseason to re-hab sufficiently enough to start playing again.

We could be looking at Leinart as the starter next Sept. with Schaub being on the PUP list until late Oct.

Naiirb
11-23-2011, 11:09 PM
So true. I want confirmation from another source.

You can hear Schaub say it himself here

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d82469862/Schaub-It-s-tough-to-take

CloakNNNdagger
11-23-2011, 11:14 PM
I'm betting those "small fractures" were avulsion fractures. The LisFranc ligament is actually stronger than bone, so instead of the ligament tearing away from bone, you have ligament tearing off small pieces of bone.

Regarding recovery time, remember, he hasn't even had surgery yet.


Marcus, although it could also be a mid-metatarsal fracture, this is my post of one week ago (which goes along with what are pointing out):

Here could be the most likely type of injury (which includes a Lisfranc with "fracture") that has the Texans in a quandry whether they should take the chance of going conservative.

The x-ray demonstrates some abnormal separation between the bases of the 1st and 2nd metatarsal bones along with the "fleck sign." The fleck sign reflects a small bone fragment avulsed by and still attached to the Lisfranc ligament (look at he 5 o'clock position of the circle............this is where the diagonal Lisfranc ligament attaches to the rectangular tarsal bone (the other end attaches to the base of the 2nd metatarsal bone, around the 9 o'clock position). If you look carefully at the 5 o'clock position again you will see an irregular space of the tarsal bone surface which reflects a piece of the bone being fractured off of the tarsal bone proper.

http://www.foothyperbook.com/images/midfootTrauma/fleckSign.jpg

CloakNNNdagger
11-23-2011, 11:24 PM
The guy wanted to play. He wanted to cash in on all the hard work he's put in to get to this point. If we make it to the playoffs, Schaub (and Mario, but mostly Schaub) is like Moses. He led us to the promised land but didn't get to go there himself.

He was just hoping to find someone to give him the chance to go to the promised land.

We have confirmation of it being a Lisfranc fracture.

HOUSTON - Houston Texans quarterback Matt Schaub arrived at Bush Intercontinental Airport Wednesday afternoon facing surgery that has ended his season.

Schaub saw a specialist in Charlotte, North Carolina with hopes he would be able to get a diagnosis that would allow him to avoid surgery after suffering an injury to the Lisfranc ligament in his right foot.

Schaub was told surgery is necessary which he is expected to have next week.

"It's unfortunate," Schaub told FOX 26 Sports and the Houston Chronicle. "The team is having such a good year and they're going to continue to have a great year.

"It's unfortunate that it had to end this way with my foot injury, but for the long run it's best to get it fixed. It's a Lisfranc injury, along with a couple of other small fractures.

"I'll definitely be ready for next season."

Schaub said he did everything he could to try and find a way to return to play this season.

"Tried to search all options to try to find a way back to play, anything that we can do, but in the long run it probably wouldn't hold up," Schaub said.

'It's tough to take, but I kind of expected this going to see him, to get a feel for what his thoughts were, and make a decision from there, but yes it's tough.

"It's frustrating, but some things you've got to deal with."

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/nfl/111123-matt-schaub%3A-%27it%27s-unfortunate%2C-tough-to-swallow%27#ixzz1eb5W2RF7
(http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/nfl/111123-matt-schaub%3A-%27it%27s-unfortunate%2C-tough-to-swallow%27#ixzz1eb5W2RF7)

CloakNNNdagger
11-24-2011, 08:13 AM
ugh...
so worse case, we're looking at the beginning of OTAs and mini-camp next year before the screws are even taken out. Then all of training camp and preseason to re-hab sufficiently enough to start playing again.

We could be looking at Leinart as the starter next Sept. with Schaub being on the PUP list until late Oct.

Actually, worse case scenario could be more troublesome. We are told that he indeed has accompanying "small fractures" but are not told if these are within the joint or outside of the joint. If they are within the joint, the arthritic changes and pains are associated much more often in these injuries than in Lisfranc injuries that do not include fractures.

[In the x-ray below, note the small fractures (between arrows), that involve the Lisfranc joints]

http://www.footeducation.dreamhosters.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/figure-1b-displaced-lisfranc-fracture-Cropped-and-Resized_thumb.jpg

These type of postoperative problems do not infrequently lead to a 3rd surgery........i.e., a fusion of the joint, which has a good chance of correcting the problems. If the particular situation dictates, the surgeon may in some cases perform fusion during the primary surgery in order to try to avoid the problem. Also, after removal of hardware, in a small number of cases, the midfoot arch can re-collapse and require fusion. There are some surgeons which, again in particular cases, may choose to leave hardware in. But, the hardware can break under the stress placed upon an athlete's reconstructed foot, and further surgery is then necessary.

So these are the so-called "worse case scenarios" that I can think of involving a Lisfranc fracture injury. Hopefully, Schaub avoids them all and we can adequately assess his potential return performance by the beginning of the 2012 season.

ObsiWan
11-24-2011, 08:21 AM
Yikes!!

Thorn
11-24-2011, 08:33 AM
In the meantime, I'm mentally prepping myself for the idea that Matty Hot Tub is our starting QB for the foreseable future, including next season. He either gets his act togeather, or we'll be needing a future QB quickly.

CloakNNNdagger
11-24-2011, 08:40 AM
In response to other posters' question of if there is a video out there of the play, I finally found a VIDEO OF THE PLAY LEADING TO SCHAUB'S INJURY (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=8433190) [Near the beginning of the video, they circle highlight the position of Schaub's foot as Haynesworth comes down on it]

steelbtexan
11-24-2011, 08:40 AM
Knowing that he has those small fractures along with the Lisfranc means the odds of him making it back by the start of next season at 100% are less than 50/50if I'm reading this correctly?

This means it's time to start looking for another QB, if Leinhart doesn't perform well and Gary doesn't think Yates is the QB of the future.

Atleast with things happening the way they did to Schaub the Texans shouldn't have to go through what the Colts are going through this yr. (That's not really a bright side though) I feel terrible for Schaub, he's been through the tough times and it doesn't look like he's going to be able to enjoy the fruits of his labor.

Sometimes life just is'nt fair....

TheMatrix31
11-24-2011, 01:35 PM
L-e-i-n-a-r-t