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Grid
04-26-2005, 03:43 PM
Im at school.. i have an hour to blow.. so im gonna write a long drawn out opinion on how our offseason went and where we are headed :)


So, its been a hectic offseason, and alot of "fans" are confused, heartbroken, or just plain angry that things didnt go how they wanted them too. But lets try and rise above what we think is best for the team, and try to invision just where we are going, and what we have done.

The majority of our changes happened on our defense, so lets look at that first.

Our defense ranked 23rd out of 32 last season.

In 3rd down completions by the opposing team, we were ranked 29th (we didnt stop em on 3rd down). In defensive penalties, we ranked 30th. In penalty yards, we ranked 26th. We allowed an average of 4.4 rushing yards per attempt, but we led the league allowing only 4 rushing TDs! Unfortunatly, that is because we also allowed 32 passing TDs (only GB allowed more with 33).

Teams didnt need to rush on us because they could easily pass on us. We DID come into our own a bit at the end of the season against the Jags and Bears.. but neither one of them have offenses worth bragging about, so honestly that is not a good indicator of our skill level.

The simple fact of the matter is that our Defense sucked. I see people complaining about our release of Glenn, Sharper, and Foreman, but you have to look at WHY they were released.

Look at our Defense last season.. in 2002 our defense rocked, and in 2003 our defense spent most of the season injured so it wasnt possible to tell if they were good or not.. in 2004 though.. last season.. we had MANY of the returning players from 2002, uninjured and ready to play. We even had Babin and Robinson, two awesome rookies, to help us out. Matt Stevens had been replaced by Marcus Coleman.. a huge upgrade. But what happened? Our defense stunk it up. Here we are paying loads of cash for this defense that was one of the better ones in the league in 2002, and now in 2004 they were old.. slow.. anemic.. incapable of doing their job. Is it any big surprise that we decided we needed to make IMMEDIATE changes? There was really NO excuse for our defensive performance last year. Even with Babin and Robinson learning their positions, we SHOULD have been as good or better than we were in 2002, and if we HAD been.. with our offense we would have done alot better than 7-9.

But now, our pass rush still sucked, our secondary was sucking.. we had too many penalties, gave up too many first downs, and just did NOT threaten the opposing teams.

I have no doubt in my mind that Walker, Payne, Wong, and Coleman will all be replaced within the next couple of seasons. It is necessary. They are getting old.. they are not playing with heart.. they are not doing their jobs. Now, I hope that this next season.. with the cuts we made.. they will come back and be ready to play their heart out.. but if they dont, they will be gone just like Glenn, Sharper, and Foreman.

We, as fans, have to remember that these old vets that we started with, they are not TEXANS. They were drafted and played the bulk of their careers with other teams. They do not feel great loyalty towards our franchise because, well, they have not had time to become loyal to us. Our rookies.. Carr, Johnson, Davis, Robinson, Babin, Earl, etc..etc.. these are the players who are going to be loyal to us and bust their butts for us. The Texans are their home, we brought them into the league and we gave them their first big paycheck.. we are what they know and they want to bring this team to the superbowl.

Im not saying that our vets have no feelings towards the Texans, just that they were taken in the expansion draft, not really having any choice in the matter. They do not dislike the Texans or our fans.. but if you asked Aaron Glenn in 20 years who he played for in the NFL.. who is going to come to mind? The Texans? or the Jets?

Anyway, getting back to the point, our defense struggled in 2004, badly, and we needed upgrades. Sharper and Foreman did not play as well as they were getting paid. They are good players, but they are not playmakers and that makes them expendable. There are plenty of good players in this league.. we do not need to be paying 6 million a season for them. On top of that.. we lacked speed at LB, and considering the way that TEs and slot receivers ate us up and made 1st downs on us, that is something we HAD to fix. Wong and Greenwood at ILB are JUST AS GOOD as Foreman and Sharper. All Sharper has really done for us every year is make a lot of tackles (the only exception I can think of last year was his sack, forced fumble and Touchdown against the raiders).. and Greenwood did the same thing in Miami, he had lots of tackles there. He (greenwood) is being brought into a system that is specifically catered to the type of player he is.. and if anything that is going to make him a BETTER player than Sharper for us. Wong is, obviously, an upgrade over Foreman.. i dont need to get into that.

The icing on the cake is that Babin is coming into his second season, and Peek will be starting. He (babin) had a very solid rookie season, and with an offseason to look at gametape and work on the fundamentals will turn some of the QB rushes last year into QB sacks this year. And Peek.. he is an immediate upgrade to our pass rush and our speed, the only question is his ability to be a total package.. will his weaknesses hurt us? All I have to say to that is, are his weaknesses worse than the weaknesses we had last year? The answer is no.. his ability to pressure the QB and produce sacks will not only help to vastly improve our secondary, it will also make up for many of his shortcomings.. whatever they may be. I cannot imagine that having him at OLB could lead to worse results than last year. The ability of teams to get a first down on us from seemingly any distance was sickening.

Moving into the secondary, The loss of Glenn WILL hurt some. I am basing that on the understanding that Buchanan, while athletic and a playmaker, is also very raw and weak in man coverage. Buchanan will produce more turnovers than Glenn IMO.. but will also allow more big plays. Here is the thing though.. Glenn allowed quite a few big plays last year himself.. at least one a game it seemed at times.. on top of that, he didnt make alot of interceptions, and our Defense seemed to be focused on making turnovers. If anything, Buchanan is gonna play to the strengths of our defense with his ability to create interceptions and run them to the house as well. I think he will give up some plays, but with Coleman watching his back, and Robinson putting up another great season (*fingers crossed*) Buchanans impact will be a bigger boon than bust. That is what the Glenn/Buchanan tradeoff basicly boils down to. We lose the veteran abilities of Glenn, and exchanged them for a more raw, but more exciting/playmaking Buchanan. Is it an even tradeoff? we will see.. but with our improved pass rush and Coleman back at FS.. I think we will be better than last season, even without Glenn.

THis is getting very long so let me talk offense real quick.

The biggest complaint on Offense is our Oline. But lets just take a minute to look at this logically. YOU DONT THROW TOGETHER EFFECTIVE OLINES IN THE NFL!11!!one!1!!eleven!1!1!! Olines arent like WRs or LBs, you cant just go grab a good Olineman, throw him in as a starter and expect a big improvement. Olines need time to mesh, and that is what we are giving them. We HAVE talent on the Oline. Wade and Wiegert are both very talented veterans who will be coming into their second year of zone blocking, they will be more comfortable not only with the scheme, but with the other guys on the line. Pitts and Wand are both VERY TALENTED PROSPECTS.. people are ready to burn Wand in effigy after last season, why? Why in the world would you want to bench a young, talented player because he struggled his first season? He did not show any crippling weaknesses.. he just showed that he was still raw and needed time to develop. DId we start him too early? yes.. even the coaches admitted that.. but in doing so we also jumpstarted his development and we can expect MORE out of him next season. Pitts.. im not even gonna go there.. Pitts is very solid and very talented, and if you question his skills to start, you just dont know what you are talking about.

Our Oline last year was not only thrown together, it was also learning a completely new system.. they will be more experienced and therefore more effective this season. On top of that, we are finding other ways to make sure Carr is protected. The most prevalent is that we will be instituting more timing routes into our offense.. getting the ball out of Carrs hands quicker, and lessening the pressure on our oline to provide pass protection for 7-8 seconds.

I can pretty much garuantee you that the coaches are not going to let Carr get manhandled again. They see the same things you do.. the happy feet.. the distrust of the pocket.. they know as well as you do that they cant let Carr lead the league in sacks again.. and they arent going to let it happen. This is one of those things were you have to trust the coaches, cause we ARE doing the right thing in letting our Oline develop.. there is just no faster way to get Carr the protection he needs.

And quickly... the rest of the offense. Our WRs are great.. we have the same guys as last year, plus the inclusion of Jerome Mathis. Mathis sounds like he could definatly be our #2 and a huge deep threat, I look forward to seeing him play. We got an RB that could possibly be as talented as DD.. and if the zone blocking works as well as it was at the end of last season, I imagine he will be. Just like Denver, we will be able to make a 1000 yard rusher out of anyone. This does not provide us the ability to pound the ball.. but it does address the most important issue.. the durability of DD. Now we have someone else behind him who may be an impact RB as well. TE Joppru may finally be getting to start.. everyone cross your fingers and hope he was worth the wait.


OK IM DONE! thanks for reading lol.

michaelm
04-26-2005, 04:00 PM
DING DING DING !!! Rack Him!!!

That's almost exactly how I see things... Great Post! :thumbup

TheOgre
04-26-2005, 04:07 PM
Well done!!!

The players to watch closely IMO are Joppru, Peek, Greenwood, Buchanon, Wand, and whoever is the #2 receiver atm.

Htown34s
04-26-2005, 04:21 PM
That's almost exactly how I see things... Great Post! :thumbup

I second that! Glad you were able to read my mind and write out everything I've been thinking Grid! I am waaaay more excited about this coming year with all of the work we've done than I was at the end of last season.

:thumbup

michaelm
04-26-2005, 04:41 PM
Htown34s,

you gonna be dissapointed or excited if Morency stays with #34? The Texans Roster Lists him with it now...

Vinny
04-26-2005, 04:48 PM
Good number in this town.

Grid
04-26-2005, 04:50 PM
Im gonna be excited, personally. Being a bit of a youngster.. I acknowledge Earl Campbell as both one of the greatest RBs of all time, and one of the greatest houston athletes of all time.. but I dont have as many personal memories or feelings about his legacy. Basicly.. i acknowledge it and appreciate what he brought to our city, but I have no qualms about another #34 for the Texans. This is a new franchise and I look forward to seeing someone retiring #34 for us all over again :)

Htown34s
04-26-2005, 08:02 PM
Yes, it has to be decided by his play. I would never want people to deem someone worthy of #34 or not.

But having said that, Earl, Hakeem, and Ryan aren't even just regular Hall of Famers. They were something special even in a group of special players.

Sooner or later, it will happen again though, and it will be fun to watch!

Errant Hothy
04-26-2005, 08:07 PM
I just hope he understands the importance of the number to this town. That beign said, I like the confidence it shows on his part.

outofhnd
04-26-2005, 08:19 PM
Very good analysis grid.

Everyone Remember we are building through the draft not building off thespare parts we got in the expansion draft. Good things are coming! We finally are getting young talent at key positions. The Big Barometer will be Joppru in my opinion. If we have to resort to shuffling TE again our line will again look porus and unable to pass block. if the defense knows we are passing by the TE we have, they are going to bring everyone upfront. If we can show them a consistent personnel group with different looks. We have the ability to be a top 10 offense this year.

I will close in saying "in Joppru we trust!" :soapbox:

TexanExile
04-26-2005, 08:31 PM
The Big Barometer will be Joppru in my opinion. If we have to resort to shuffling TE again our line will again look porus and unable to pass block.

Kudos to Grid--I'm MOSTLY on board with what you said, and I like the point about not measuring the D's improvement against standards like the woeful Bears offense. But I also think the Joppru point is great, and I touched on that TE topic over in the draft forum a couple of days ago. We do wonders for Carr's health and confidence by finding a legit TE. C'mon, Bennie...get out there and do what we all thought you could do!

michaelm
04-26-2005, 08:33 PM
I just hope he understands the importance of the number to this town. That beign said, I like the confidence it shows on his part.


He may not even be aware of the significance of the #34 in Houston... He may just like the number or have some previous link to it.

outofhnd
04-26-2005, 08:34 PM
can we get texan colored bracelet and have the WWJD stand for "what would Joppru do?" :woot

edo783
04-26-2005, 10:50 PM
I think it is very telling that we didn't draft a TE. To me, that says the coaches have a great deal of confidence that BJ will be back and in good shape.

El Tejano
04-26-2005, 11:04 PM
WWJD "what would Joppru do?" :woot
You mean, What Will Joppru Do? :wacko:

LBC_Justin
04-26-2005, 11:26 PM
wonderful topic.

Like you said Change is not always bad.

In a lot of ways our Defense couldn't possibly be worse than it was last year.

SESupergenius
04-26-2005, 11:39 PM
State of the Texans: 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

I'm curious to see our predictions now.

michaelm
04-26-2005, 11:44 PM
Earl was a Houston Oiler.. not a Houston Texan.. gee
weren't they blue & white. What a bunch of hooie...
I still see Campbell's Jerseys all over town...not one looks
like a Texan Jersey. Hello... I guess anyone who wears a
cowboy hat means his name is Bum. Stop with this dumb,
34 talk... :wacko:

The significance of the #34 in Houston is that coincidentally all of the greatest sports figures in the city's history have worn the number.

#34 Earl Campbell
#34 Hakeem Olajuwan
#34 Nolan Ryan

these great atheletes belong to the city of houston as much as, or more than they do to the franchise they played for. If you are a native houstonian with any knowlege of or experience with the three major sports, #34 is a special and memorable number.

geez, you should look before you leap into a topic you know nothing about...
you aint from around here are ya? :loser

Keldar
04-26-2005, 11:57 PM
Great post Grid!!!!

You really slammed it home with the "old player loyalty to the franchise bit". You are absolutely correct with that observation. It's kinda like they were/are all playing here on borrowed time. Next step for them all will be retirement, reduced playing time, redeployment to another team, and/or restructured contracts.

It's the speedy young 'uns that we should be focusing our coaching, money, and laudits on. They ARE the Houston Texans, now and in the near future. Everyone's plan has been for that "near future" to include playoffs. The scouts and coaches are betting their jobs on it, so they must be comfortable in their decisions.

You know, your post has reminded me of Capers' comments after the last game of 2004. He said he and the coaches will take some time off, then come back and study film of the players and the games. Obviously they saw some things that encouraged them to make some changes, pronto.

disaacks3
04-27-2005, 12:40 AM
I can pretty much garuantee you that the coaches are not going to let Carr get manhandled again. And just how, praytell, are they going to do that? Sure, we all HOPE that the O-Line, having had another year to 'jell' in the Zone-blocking system will improve, but that's an awfully iffy proposition. We wouldn't have tried so hard for O. Pace, if there wasn't a HUGE upside in that equation. Rookies can't ever be effective and start? Tell that one to Jordan Gross. Just having 'another year' doesn't guarantee success. It certainly can't hurt, but I'm doubtful that Carr will suddenly find himself with plenty of time to decide which receiver he'd like to pass to this season.

Our Offense improved statistically speaking, but were there really that many teams that considered the Texans "O" a huge threat? Go back and look at our scoring average and tell me that we were "lighting it up" last year.

Our Defense appeared to get demoralized early in the season with the DD cough-ups. The Texans offense simply wasn't good enough to overcome mistakes like that in the red zone. Age certainly plays a factor on Defense when they're asked to keep getting back on the field with little rest, after an inept attempt by the Offense to keep the opposing "D" on the field longer than three plays.

There have been numerous posts to suggest that it was "all coming together" at the end of last season. I've got one word for you..."Cleveland"!! The Texans did anything BUT finish on a high note last year and every fan in the stands knew it. Offseason seems to make people forget about the Team that had "we give up" written all over their faces at many points last season.

Just remember that heading into last year, most everyone (myself included) was "hyped" about the additions / changes to the O-Line and blocking scheme. Most expected DD to have a 'good' if not great season. Our "D" was finally recovered from the injury-riddled campaign that was the 2003 football season, and most expected it to return to its 2002 form.

The results on the field last season didn't live up to the hype or hopes of most fans. Keep this in mind when considering all the "changes" that have happened to the Texans lately. We had what we hoped were positive changes on both sides of the ball last year too, and look how disappointing that turned out! Simply put, last year's team wouldn't have finished 7-9 against the schedule of 2003...they weren't good enough.

The Loss of two "Leaders" on Defense (and yes, IMHO Sharper WAS a leader), especially when bringing in 'character issue' guys, makes you wonder. (and no, I'm NOT including any acquittal / charges dropped stuff in there ) - TJ & PB (on Defense) and VM & JM (0n Offense) had "other issues as well. I'm not saying they can't be overcome, but it would've been nice to have the "old hands" around a little longer to mentor these guys.

:soapbox: I'm not planning to give up my season tickets in shame, nor am I particularly 'angry' with the Texans for any recent events. In my opinion, they've done a good job recently of preparing the team financially (and physically) for the future. Unfortunately, I'm not real sure that the 2005 season is that particular future. The recent changes, in fact, have the potential to disrupt Defensive continuity to such an extent that we may actually backtrack this year. Like last year's decision to change blocking schemes, these changes have the POTENTIAL to improve the club, but may cause us real headaches in the short term.

uhcougar08
04-27-2005, 12:45 AM
I love the post GRID!

I personally went through a similar situation in my career. I came to a new place where everything was good to go, but not great. After some shuffling around of personnel, and two years later, we were all happy and it was as smooth as butter. It was amazing to watch. I feel the Texans are doing the same thing right now.

They said it was a five year plan, so people around here should give them 5 years, not 3!!!! As goes the same in war, people want to see destruction and reconstruction in 3 minutes. It is not possible. People think that if they dont see results right away, then your not doing your job.

Give it time, if your a real Texans fan, you will understand whats going on.

Give em' hell Texans in '05!!!!!!

SESupergenius
04-27-2005, 12:51 AM
Excellent post disaacks3, I am with you on this one. It is going to take time to put this all together. I'm still in shock over all of this and it may take a while to put my heart back into this team once I get it back from the trash dumpster, but I should have hope for next year since there were going to be so many decisions to be made then. We've just sped all these decisions up a year, prematurely In my opinion. We were on the verge of being a 9-7 team last year, now we are regressing IMO. Next year will be huge for this staff.

ocd
04-27-2005, 01:11 AM
here's where we are...it's year 4 of the texans franchise and we're rebuilding.


OMG


:shocked

bubbajaxonbrown
04-27-2005, 01:14 AM
Grid, I think your post is very well thought out and your opinions are straight forward and concise (regardless of the length), but I only disagree with you on one point...Some of those veterens who came to Houston in the expansion draft are and were Texans when they came. Glenn and Coleman to be specific. They both are from Texas (Glenn - Humble, TX and Coleman - Dallas, TX) and went to college in Texas (Glenn - TX A&M and Coleman - TX Tech). These are both true Texans who happened to be drafted to New York for a few years. Nothing makes you more proud than to represent where you are from and to have thousands of fans screaming for you from your home state.

I agree with everything else, but I don't think Houston was another paycheck to Glenn or Coleman. The Texans mean more to them than it ever will to us.

It's inevitable that these guys are going to age and have to leave, but lets not belittle their loyalty to their home state.

ATX
04-27-2005, 03:25 AM
great post grid. i'd like to add something though. i think the moves we're making to make the team younger in areas will benefit us in the long run. imo, keeping guys like glenn and sharper may have gotten us to the superbowl once, maybe twice at the most. that is the five year plan. by adding younger players, it will make it alot easier for the texans to get to more than 1 superbowl. we should all look at this as a 10 year plan, with us making the playoffs in year 4 or 5. by adding these younger players now, they will have time to develop into our system, so the years after 4 or 5 we won't have to replace guys like sharper or glenn with new players unaccustomed to the system. then we can start drafting guys and not expecting them to start their first season. they can play 2nd or 3rd string, then when we need to cut another old man, they're ready to replace them. sure we'll get some free agents as the years go on, but most of our guys will be handpicked(drafted) by cass and dom. look at the texans in 2002. almost the whole team was basically free agents. then 2003, a few less, 2004, less free agents, and finally 2005 even less free agents. please don't take this as real free agents, what i mean is every year that goes on, we're losing the original free agents acquired through the expansion draft. seriously do we want to be like the panthers? great second season, lots of free agents, but what happened after that. they didn't get to the superbowl until the 2003/2004 season. personally i'd rather give them time and a better chance to make it the superbowl year after year instead of one good season followed by poor seasons. by adding the younger guys now, this is what we're doing. we're making our team into a consistent winner over the long run. i like that strategy, even if we struggle somewhat next season.

Grid
04-27-2005, 01:56 PM
Good post disaacks, and I see where you are coming from. Just as I am seeing the positive effects that these changes could make, you are seeing the negative. Neither of us are wrong, and neither can say which is more likely.

And our scoring average was "eh" last year.. but it was also very inconsitent.. we would be firing it up one week and limping through a game the next. I dont think any team we played considered our offense unthreatening though.

And I agree we imploded against cleveland.. but that is an indicator of our youth and inconsitency.. I dont think that means we suck more than cleveland :).

We had what we hoped were positive changes on both sides of the ball last year too, and look how disappointing that turned out!

Well yah, but just cause the changes you make one offseason do not create the results you were hoping for.. that doesnt mean that every change you make from then on is going to be just as uneffective. We made changes last year.. saw what didnt work.. and we have made more changes this year.. its almost a process of elimination. You just gotta keep patching the holes until you hold water.


The recent changes, in fact, have the potential to disrupt Defensive continuity to such an extent that we may actually backtrack this year

I agree that it COULD cause us to lose a step on defense.. but the way I see it.. were were in the bottom 5 of defenses last year.. there isnt a whole lotta room to fall. If we were gonna make drastic changes to our D.. this was the time to do it.

TJFord
04-27-2005, 02:39 PM
I think that the changes we have made thus far are at best negligible. Greenwood for example is probably an upgrade over Sharper, but is he really noticeably better? Buchanon I think has a real good chance to be a better cb for us next year and in the future, but is he much better than Glenn and a 2nd round pick that could be groomed for the spot in the future? I just feel like the Texans have squandered chances at making the team markedly better this offseason. Here is my list of gripes with the front office:
1) Why do you just release guys like Sharper and Glenn? I don't think that you're going to be getting anything of real value in a trade, but something is better than nothing and atleast at the end of the day you can show your fans a late round pick or a little used prospect with potential.
2) Why do you trade down for a pick in next year's draft? Granted we have a five year plan, but do you not think that maybe we should try to be the best we can possibly be every year? We are not in a position to think that we don't need immediate help.
3) TJ over DJ??? I will give you that TJ is a guy that can be a great help, but we are already paying 3 guys a lot of money to play that position. If TJ was the guy you were targeting, you knew he would be there when you signed Payne. I just don't understand stacking one position to the detriment of another in this case. We have 4 lbs on the field constantly, but only 3 of them have any real experience. Maybe DJ isn't as good as everybody that has seen him play thinks, but Peek is a gamble that could ruin our season and lb is a position where we have to be deep anyway.

I think that we may have improved in the long term so far, but I also think that we are going to take a step back this year, maybe 6-10 or 5-11. It is just frustrating to think that we could have done more to help ourselves and we didn't.

TheOgre
04-27-2005, 02:50 PM
Justice was on 610 radio this morning and mentioned that the Texans had a serious talk with Chris Palmer about his pass protection schemes. Palmer seemed to be willing to make changes. A couple of weeks later he was getting interviewed and the interviewer asked him if Carr what they would do to help prevent Carr from getting sacked so much. Palmer apparently didn't think it was an issue (implying he didn't feel Carr was overly pressured/sacked). I hadn't been in Palmer's "Firing Squad", but if Carr takes another pounding like last year, that will change. I think Palmer is in the hot seat this season.

MikeMc
04-27-2005, 03:02 PM
The significance of the #34 in Houston is that coincidentally all of the greatest sports figures in the city's history have worn the number.


#34 Nolan Ryan - Astros
#34 Earl Campbell - Oilers
#34 Akeem Olajuwon - Rockets

...

Do not forget:

#34 Matt Foy - Aeros :woot

Grid
04-27-2005, 03:10 PM
Greenwood for example is probably an upgrade over Sharper, but is he really noticeably better?


We wont know if he is noticably better till he is on the feild.. but he has the potential to be better, and costs a lot less.


Buchanon I think has a real good chance to be a better cb for us next year and in the future, but is he much better than Glenn and a 2nd round pick that could be groomed for the spot in the future?


With his athletic ability and experience in the NFL.. I think he has the chance to be both better than anyone we could have gotten this year, and upgrade over Glenn, and better for us in the long run.


1) Why do you just release guys like Sharper and Glenn? I don't think that you're going to be getting anything of real value in a trade, but something is better than nothing and atleast at the end of the day you can show your fans a late round pick or a little used prospect with potential.


Look at what Glenn and Sharper were signed for by other teams.. that should give you a good idea of why. They dont want to sign them for the contract we had them under.. they wanted to resign them to a new contract, pay them less, and keep all their players/picks. In order to get someone to trade you for the player.. there has to be a good market for him.. that way two teams will fight over him and they will try to MAKE SURE that they get him by making the trade with you.. so you wont release em to free agency.


2) Why do you trade down for a pick in next year's draft? Granted we have a five year plan, but do you not think that maybe we should try to be the best we can possibly be every year? We are not in a position to think that we don't need immediate help.


Cause that is what was offered. NO ONE was trading down in this draft.. there just wasnt a big market for it. Trading down and getting your guy and a 3rd next year is better than just taking him at 13 and getting nothing. Trades require two parties.. you cant just say "im gonna trade down and get a 2nd rounder".. you have to find someone willing to give a 2nd rounder to move up.. there just wasnt anyone willing to do that.

3) TJ over DJ??? I will give you that TJ is a guy that can be a great help, but we are already paying 3 guys a lot of money to play that position. If TJ was the guy you were targeting, you knew he would be there when you signed Payne. I just don't understand stacking one position to the detriment of another in this case. We have 4 lbs on the field constantly, but only 3 of them have any real experience. Maybe DJ isn't as good as everybody that has seen him play thinks, but Peek is a gamble that could ruin our season and lb is a position where we have to be deep anyway.


this has been said a hundred times already.. but I will repeat it again. The amount of money we are paying our current Dline starters does not in any way change the fact that we needed youth on the Dline. Walker and Payne are both old and injury prone and will be on their way out soon.. we needed youth and talent on the Dline. And TJ was not necessarily the guy at the TOP of their list.. and there was no garuanteeing that he would be available to us.. also.. I SERIOUSLY doubt they knew who their guys were when they resigned Payne. And peek has more experience than any rookie we would have signed.. I trust the coaches on that decision.



I think that we may have improved in the long term so far, but I also think that we are going to take a step back this year, maybe 6-10 or 5-11. It is just frustrating to think that we could have done more to help ourselves and we didn't.

I dont see how we could have done MORE to help ourselves.. any other things we "could have done" are just conjecture and opinions on what could have possibly happened in our fantasy football league.. yah.. we COULD have grabbed Randy Moss.. or he could have sprouted wings and flown to pluto.. it COULD have happened.. doesnt make it likely or feasible. We have made alot of moves.. all of them positive moves for our future. It is possible we will take a step back because of all the changes... but I doubt it. Our defense was in the bottom 5 last season.. there isnt much farther for us to fall... and our offense is returning, more experienced and with Jerome Mathis, Vernand Morency, and Bennie Joppru.. so saying we are gonna take a big step back doesnt seem real logical to me at this point. I could see us only taking a SMALL step forward (8-8).. but I dont see us regressing.

jacquescas
04-27-2005, 03:28 PM
Looking at the fact that we have a 5 year plan, the goal this year is to finish with a winning record and challenge for a playoff spot, then we have 1 draft and should have alot of cap room next summer to make a move for year 5.

fresno8
04-27-2005, 04:07 PM
Great Post Grid :thumbup , Our D definately has bigtime speed and potential now. I have been a critic of the o-line, but I'm optimistic they will play better and I hope the timing routes work well for Dave, the line and the WR. This should be a fun year. 11-5.

Porky
04-27-2005, 04:39 PM
i think the moves we're making to make the team younger in areas will benefit us in the long run. imo, keeping guys like glenn and sharper may have gotten us to the superbowl once, maybe twice at the most. that is the five year plan. by adding younger players, it will make it alot easier for the texans to get to more than 1 superbowl. we should all look at this as a 10 year plan, with us making the playoffs in year 4 or 5.

That is one of the most convoluted theories I have ever heard. So, you mean to tell me we got rid of Shaper and Glenn because they could only deliver us a mere one or two Superbowls. Well, those losers. :heh:

Quote by Grid: And our scoring average was "eh" last year.. but it was also very inconsitent.. we would be firing it up one week and limping through a game the next.

Would you mind telling me when we we "firing it up" any week? Other than the second half vs. Minn, this was a well below avg offense. We averaged 19.3 a game, good enough for 21st, so I will say we moved up from pathetic to miserable, but let's not get carried away with hype. :fib

TheOgre
04-27-2005, 04:47 PM
Our passing attack was actually pretty strong the first 6 weeks. Unfortunately that was mainly against defenses that finished in the bottom quarter of pass defense in the league.

Grid
04-27-2005, 06:05 PM
Would you mind telling me when we we "firing it up" any week? Other than the second half vs. Minn, this was a well below avg offense.

Why does everything have to be negative? why dont you just go look at the stats?

20 against SD
24 against KC
30 against Oak
28 against Min
20 against Ten
20 against Jac
31 against Ten
24 agaisnt Chi
21 against Jac

Average: 24.222(8th in league)

on the other end of the spectrum

16 against Detroit (could have been more without turnovers)
13 against Denver (2nd worst game of the year for us)
14 against Indi (the blowout)
13 against GB (good game.. just low scoring)
7 against NYJ (!)
14 against Indi (can ya tell we dont like Freeney?)
14 against Cleveland (worst game of the year)

Average: 13 (32nd)



See? all of those low scoring games I just showed were losses.. while all but two of the high scoring games (Minnesota and San Diego) were wins.

Some weeks we brought it.. scored points.. and won games. Other weeks we came in flat, didnt score points..and lost games. The SD game should have been a win, but turnovers killed us.. the Minnesota game could have been a win if we had played better in the first half.

FatBoyTim
04-27-2005, 06:21 PM
i like the effort but the fact remains the texans are no closer to the playoffs or the SB than they were in 2002. Casserly has done a terrible job in my view and i know my view is not shared by everyone. Sharper and Glenn were the two most consistent players on D that kept the D together. I like Dunta, AJ and DD but i am not sold on Carr or anyone else he has brought in. I really think the Babin trade and the TJohnson trade have crystalized my view that we need to go the way of the Browns and rebuild with a new GM. We wont be winning the AFC South this yr and i think the playoffs are a reach too.

Grid
04-27-2005, 06:25 PM
I really think the Babin trade and the TJohnson trade have crystalized my view that we need to go the way of the Browns and rebuild with a new GM

:shocked

lol:

:crazy:

man..... thats just crazy :).

Grid
04-27-2005, 06:54 PM
Saw this and immediatly thought of this board

the similarities are uncanny (http://www.entremareserra.com/escola1/recursos/sons/pessoas/BabyCrying.wav)

Davis37
04-27-2005, 07:07 PM
Saw this and immediatly thought of this board

the similarities are uncanny (http://www.entremareserra.com/escola1/recursos/sons/pessoas/BabyCrying.wav)

well that was retarded. :loser

Grid
04-27-2005, 07:09 PM
:neener:

I found it amusing :cool:

outofhnd
04-27-2005, 09:03 PM
We are building through the draft not building off the spare parts we recieved in the expansion draft. We will keep the talent we draft eventually replace all the parts we got in the expansion draft.

This is what we call "building a perennial contender" that means a good team for a long time. They have built this team by far much better than the browns.

The browns have yet to produce a 1000 yd rusher we produced that the last 2 years.

The Browns have not sent anyone to the pro-bowl (i think) We sent AJ

The browns have gone thru 3 coaching staffs in 6 years. We havent fired a coach at all.

The Browns best year was a wildcard i believe their record was 9-7 and that was year 4 after that utter disarray.

We are doing this right people lets not cling to these spare parts we are jettisoning just because they were once pro bowlers.

infantrycak
04-27-2005, 09:38 PM
i like the effort but the fact remains the texans are no closer to the playoffs or the SB than they were in 2002. Casserly has done a terrible job in my view and i know my view is not shared by everyone. Sharper and Glenn were the two most consistent players on D that kept the D together. I like Dunta, AJ and DD but i am not sold on Carr or anyone else he has brought in. I really think the Babin trade and the TJohnson trade have crystalized my view that we need to go the way of the Browns and rebuild with a new GM. We wont be winning the AFC South this yr and i think the playoffs are a reach too.

Who's we kimosabe? You aren't even a Texans fan--you just come here to sow dissension. At least be honest about your affiliation.

DocBar
04-27-2005, 10:37 PM
And just how, praytell, are they going to do that? Sure, we all HOPE that the O-Line, having had another year to 'jell' in the Zone-blocking system will improve, but that's an awfully iffy proposition. We wouldn't have tried so hard for O. Pace, if there wasn't a HUGE upside in that equation. .
Deleted most of the post to save space. Just wanted a reference to what I'm talking about.
Our team DID make some huge strides in 2004. When you factor in the fact that we are STILL an expansion team(starting to get out of that mold...maybe the reason for the 5 yr plan?) and that we started practically a new O-line(AND NEW SCHEME), we did "light it up" quite a few times last year. We started this team with everybody elses cast-offs, street FA's and draft picks. As we've been drafting for 4 yrs now, we'v e drastically improved our team. And with 2 more wins(and several near misses), we've improved our standings each year. A lot of people on here seem to be looking for the "home run". Maybe we're asking too much too soon. A lot of teams with MUCH longer histories finished with worse records than us last year. IMHO, the coaching staff has done a great job of fielding a respectable team and is doing a great job of improving the team, while managing the salary cap for future developement.

outofhnd
04-27-2005, 11:14 PM
Great Point.

Id rather be a perennial playoff team, than 1 superbowl and nothing. Capers made that mistake with carolina. he went for the homerun and got close and then everything fell apart.

TexansTrueFan
04-27-2005, 11:17 PM
i'm so excited about all the new faces on our team, i got a job where i'm now off on sundays, i saw all the games at my other job, everyone there loves the team, BUT now i can watch the game and relax :) so happy !! CANT WAIT TILL AUGUST.

LBblitz
04-27-2005, 11:21 PM
:banana: Grid for mayor!

disaacks3
04-28-2005, 12:35 AM
Id rather be a perennial playoff team, than 1 superbowl and nothing. Capers made that mistake with carolina. he went for the homerun and got close and then everything fell apart. I'm all for that, but first we actually have to MAKE the playoffs.

:banana: Grid for mayor! Only after we have a recount... :woot

Why does everything have to be negative? why dont you just go look at the stats? Alright, but since we were discussing OFFENSIVE scoring stats, let's be ACCURATE this time, shall we? Mind you, I'm even crediting the offense with the XP after the DEFENSIVE TD.

24 against KC - NOPE - Our OFFENSE only scored 18
30 against Oak - NOPE - Our OFFENSE only scored 24
20 against Jac - NOPE - Our OFFENSE only scored 14
24 agaisnt Chi - NOPE - Our OFFENSE only scored 18
21 against Jac - NOPE - Our OFFENSE only scored 15

This is precisely why Porky and Myself pointed out that our Offense wasn't scaring anyone last year. I'm not even going to get into the late scoring in "garbage time" that skews the stats even further. Until we have better blocking for both our running AND passing game, this team is still gonna be in a world of hurt. I'm truly praying that the "football gods" will shine on our O-Line, because they certainly need some kind of 'divine' inspiration! :whew

ATX
04-28-2005, 01:50 AM
[QUOTE=Porky]That is one of the most convoluted theories I have ever heard. So, you mean to tell me we got rid of Shaper and Glenn because they could only deliver us a mere one or two Superbowls. Well, those losers. :heh:

the key word in my original statement is may. go back and read again. the theory is sound, we keep sharper and glenn and we compete for a couple years or we release them and have the opportunity to win more. what don't you understand about the post dude? this is what i said

"keeping guys like glenn and sharper may have gotten us to the superbowl once, maybe twice at the most. that is the five year plan. by adding younger players, it will make it alot easier for the texans to get to more than 1 superbowl"

you should pay attention to keywords like may and at most, not exactly what you said i said. you're criticism is a typical straw man fallacy.

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The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:


1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.