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View Full Version : DeMeco Ryans...Overpaid?


CretorFrigg
11-10-2011, 01:33 PM
I hate to be the guy who points it out, but is DeMeco Ryans overpaid? He doesn't play in dime packages, and I don't even see him on the field much anymore. He's not as fast or explosive as he once was, yet he's being paid like a superstar and not producing like one.

Through 9 games, he only has 21 tackles, 0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 2 pass defensed.

thunderkyss
11-10-2011, 01:36 PM
I hate to be the guy who points it out, but is DeMeco Ryans overpaid? He doesn't play in dime packages, and I don't even see him on the field much anymore. He's not as fast or explosive as he once was, yet he's being paid like a superstar and not producing like one.

Through 9 games, he only has 21 tackles, 0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 2 pass defensed.

We might not see the old Demeco until next year. A ruptured Achilles is one of the last injuries you ever want to get, especially if you are a football player.

Chances are he won't live up to his contract this year. But we all knew that when he went down last year.

If he were healthy, we'd probably never go to our "Dime package"

Vinny
11-10-2011, 01:37 PM
I've always assumed he wouldn't be all the way back from his injury till next season. I've seen him play pretty well at times this year.

Blake
11-10-2011, 01:38 PM
Albert Haynesworth is overpaid.

Chris Johnson is overpaid.

Roy Williams is overpaid.

DeMeco Ryans is not overpaid.

CretorFrigg
11-10-2011, 01:41 PM
I've always assumed he wouldn't be all the way back from his injury till next season. I've seen him play pretty well at times this year.

That's what I'm worried about. Are we to assume he's going to fully recover and become the DeMeco Ryans that used to dominate?

...will he ever recover and play at the same level again?

infantrycak
11-10-2011, 01:41 PM
Do you see the freaking brace on his arm? If you do, you don't understand how limiting that is?

Do you advocate dumping a stellar player over a temporary issue?

Dude is solid when hobbled, a general of the D. When back in full form he and Cushing will be the best ILB duo in the NFL.

Cushing is an emotional leader. DeMeco is an intellectual leader. And both are sideline to sideline players when healthy.

thunderkyss
11-10-2011, 01:44 PM
Do you see the freaking brace on his arm? If you do, you don't understand how imitating that is?


:kitten:

Vinny
11-10-2011, 01:45 PM
That's what I'm worried about. Are we to assume he's going to fully recover and become the DeMeco Ryans that used to dominate?

...will he ever recover and play at the same level again?
he's a premiere player so I think I'd be patient. Cushing looked bad last year nursing some injuries and whatnot. Look at him play now, all healthy and all.

DexmanC
11-10-2011, 01:50 PM
Do you see the freaking brace on his arm? If you do, you don't understand how imitating that is?

Do you advocate dumping a stellar player over a temporary issue?

Dude is solid when hobbled, a general of the D. When back in full form he and Cushing will be the best ILB duo in the NFL.

Cushing is an emotional leader. DeMeco is an intellectual leader. And both are sideline to sideline players when healthy.

Right on. The Texans couldn't tackle the backside of a barn without Demeco
last year. He's not a liability out there, and he and Jonathan Joseph keep
their teammates' heads in the game. It doesn't show up in a stat sheet, but you
can't measure the value of that leadership.

Kthx
11-10-2011, 01:51 PM
I guess its sorta hard to think about to two seasons ago and watching DeMeco be the general on the field, directing players where to lineup, where the ball would be ending up, if he saw signs of a rush or a pass play. I remember those days and I think they will happen again. Even if he has forever lost a step you can't get rid of someone who has the football IQ that he has, and the respect from the team that he has. He made our terrible defense show flashes of brilliance single handedly, I refuse to say the guys overpaid.

Corrosion
11-10-2011, 01:54 PM
I hate to be the guy who points it out, but is DeMeco Ryans overpaid? He doesn't play in dime packages, and I don't even see him on the field much anymore. He's not as fast or explosive as he once was, yet he's being paid like a superstar and not producing like one.

Through 9 games, he only has 21 tackles, 0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 2 pass defensed.

You werent the first .... so dont feel bad , was discussing this situatoin wint Beerlover in the mock draft section last week


Demeco's injuries , reduced role , decreased production and high cost are why I say he could end up as a "Cap Casualty". At his current level of play , he's simply not worth what they are paying him.


I do think they should be patient with him and see if he returns to form next season. But if he doesnt show significant recovery thats a lot of money going to a guy who gets limited playing time now that Cushing is the guy in both nickle and dime packages.

He's been on the field for as few as 17 plays in a game ....

badboy
11-10-2011, 02:02 PM
Hopefully Ryans will return to 100% and he is getting better. The arm injury is just added to the leg injury. In my mock draft, I do select a first round ILB for insurance and to build depth. We now have a team that we should be drafting BPA soon.

infantrycak
11-10-2011, 02:02 PM
now that Cushing is the guy in both nickle and dime packages.

Have you seen the brace on his arm? I don't think he can fully extend his arm at this point. It isn't a talent issue. It is a health issue. And he is still playing at a very high level.

HOU-TEX
11-10-2011, 02:11 PM
Blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!

He's currently hampered by injuries and he's still a nice thumper against the run. He'll eventually be back and when he is, it'll be even more fun to watch our ILB's.

Dutchrudder
11-10-2011, 02:29 PM
It's not like the Texans can do anything about it. He's in the second year of a big deal so the guaranteed money probably won't run out for a couple more years. Give him time, he will get back to form by the beginning of next year.

Hardcore Texan
11-10-2011, 02:53 PM
That's what I'm worried about. Are we to assume he's going to fully recover and become the DeMeco Ryans that used to dominate?

...will he ever recover and play at the same level again?

After reading CND's take on recovery, I am very worried that he may never return to the same level.

How can so many of you guys sound so certain he'll get back to his old self?? Don't get me wrong, I hope he does but it's no where even close to a guarantee.

Luckily he shown he can still play well enough even when not completely healthy. He is one of my favorite players, I hope he does recover fully.

The Pencil Neck
11-10-2011, 03:14 PM
After reading CND's take on recovery, I am very worried that he may never return to the same level.

How can so many of you guys sound so certain he'll get back to his old self?? Don't get me wrong, I hope he does but it's no where even close to a guarantee.

Luckily he shown he can still play well enough even when not completely healthy. He is one of my favorite players, I hope he does recover fully.

He may never fully recover and be back to his best.

But he should be able to keep getting better until sometime next season. So as good as he is now, he should definitely be able to get better even if he doesn't get up to the same level he was.

Corrosion
11-10-2011, 03:15 PM
Have you seen the brace on his arm? I don't think he can fully extend his arm at this point. It isn't a talent issue. It is a health issue. And he is still playing at a very high level.

I dont dispute that Cak .... but thats a lot of cap space tied up in a guy who is only on the field in the base defense.

If he's not healthy and isnt contributing at a level comparable to his pay do you continue to pay him or do you cut your losses and sign a FA at a reasonable cost or even a draft pick which would be making considerably less ?

If he's healthy there is no question you keep him .... but thats not the case here.

The Pencil Neck
11-10-2011, 03:19 PM
I dont dispute that Cak .... but thats a lot of cap space tied up in a guy who is only on the field in the base defense.

If he's not healthy and isnt contributing at a level comparable to his pay do you continue to pay him or do you cut your losses and sign a FA at a reasonable cost or even a draft pick which would be making considerably less ?

If he's healthy there is no question you keep him .... but thats not the case here.

There's no need to cut him. He's playing and contributing. If we do cut him, he'll just be dead money counting against the cap.

So let's give him a chance to recover. If he can regain 90-95% of his previous playing ability, it will be a boon for our defense to have him beside Cush and he'll be worth every penny.

Hardcore Texan
11-10-2011, 03:23 PM
There's no need to cut him. He's playing and contributing. If we do cut him, he'll just be dead money counting against the cap.

So let's give him a chance to recover. If he can regain 90-95% of his previous playing ability, it will be a boon for our defense to have him beside Cush and he'll be worth every penny.

I think 85% was about the typical recovery of former ability. Regardless, I still take that, his intelligence and instincts are top notch.

Texan_Bill
11-10-2011, 03:28 PM
We might not see the old Demeco until next year. A ruptured Achilles is one of the last injuries you ever want to get, especially if you are a football player.

Chances are he won't live up to his contract this year. But we all knew that when he went down last year.

If he were healthy, we'd probably never go to our "Dime package"

I've always assumed he wouldn't be all the way back from his injury till next season. I've seen him play pretty well at times this year.

Could've ended the thread pretty much right here.

EllisUnit
11-10-2011, 03:33 PM
I hate to be the guy who points it out, but is DeMeco Ryans overpaid? He doesn't play in dime packages, and I don't even see him on the field much anymore. He's not as fast or explosive as he once was, yet he's being paid like a superstar and not producing like one.

Through 9 , he only has 21 tackles, 0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 2 pass defensed.

you do realize that it was demeco who forced the fumble on the browns first drive last week. How bout start this thread on a week when he is virtually ineffective, but even then the answer will be the same. Demeco is a top LB and is not overpaid.

El Tejano
11-10-2011, 03:39 PM
I thought Demeco has been coming along as of late. If I'm correct he had a great game vs. Tennessee and caused a fumble against Cleveland. He also had a decent game vs. Miami.

infantrycak
11-10-2011, 04:06 PM
I dont dispute that Cak .... but thats a lot of cap space tied up in a guy who is only on the field in the base defense.

If he's not healthy and isnt contributing at a level comparable to his pay do you continue to pay him or do you cut your losses and sign a FA at a reasonable cost or even a draft pick which would be making considerably less ?

If he's healthy there is no question you keep him .... but thats not the case here.

Thing is I think his being pulled is mainly because of his elbow injury rather than his achilles. Everyone is focused on the leg but he is moving very well in that regard. I think the elbow and that tremendous brace are limiting him on pass defense. Unless I misunderstood CnD that should be a full recovery issue in the off-season.

thunderkyss
11-10-2011, 04:42 PM
How can so many of you guys sound so certain he'll get back to his old self?? Don't get me wrong, I hope he does but it's no where even close to a guarantee.

I don't think anyone is "certain" that he will return to 100%. What most people are questioning is that some here are talking like "he doesn't fit the system" "he's playing a limited role" "Brian Cushing is in on nickel & dime packages"

They totally ignore the fact that he tore his Achilles last year & isn't expected to be close to his old form till late in the season if not early next season, & they completely ignore the fact that he has a big ass brace on his arm.

It's a lot like saying, "Andre hasn't played a single snap in the last 5 games. CnD says he'll most likely never return to 100%, I can understand if he winds up a cap casualty in the offseason."


Luckily he shown he can still play well enough even when not completely healthy. He is one of my favorite players, I hope he does recover fully.

As he gets into better & better health, I doubt we'll see any dime packages at all. Demeco & Brian will be on the field 100% of the time. Only this time, if we lose our MIke, we'll be better prepared than we were last year.

ObsiWan
11-10-2011, 05:44 PM
Could've ended the thread pretty much right here.

it should never have started
:toropalm:

CloakNNNdagger
11-10-2011, 08:25 PM
After reading all the comments, it seems that it would be helpful to refresh memories. I will only briefly summarize the pertinent points (specific to Demeco) of the analysis of NFL players that I reviewed previously for Stephanie's blog in the Chronicle.



*1/3 of the players were NEVER able to return to the NFL

*Defensively, linebackers experienced the greatest drop in power ratings (DEFENSIVE POWER RATING calculated as a total of TACKLES + INTERCEPTIONS), followed by cornerbacks, defensive tackles, and defensive ends. The average decrease was 95% (p=0.09), 87% (p=0.03), 64% (p=0.01), and 55% (p=0.03), respectively. In other words, LBs were the players (both offensive and defensive) that had the most drop off of all players to return.

*Their 1st season post injury tended to be their BEST performing season post injury.......but significantly down from the 3 years prior to injury. Each subsequent post injury season saw a DECREASE (not an increase)in performance from the prior season as measured up to 3 years post injury.



As I explained at the time that I presented the data, there were definite limitations to the study. But even if you felt justified in halving the post injury power rating losses due to these limitations, the numbers would still be quite discouraging.

According to the available data, absent Demeco's elbow injury, this season could have been Demeco's best chance to show his most productive post injury season. There is always that "miraculous" exceptional case that occurs out there, and that is true.......but realistically the odds are not with Demeco.

TexanScott
11-10-2011, 11:33 PM
A slightly less productive Ryans is still better than most other second options we could match with Cushing. However, your point isn't about if he should be on the team, but more about his contract so I can see what you mean. However, he still has his instincts and we have to sit back and see if his physicality will come back with time as well to go along with that.

welsh texan
11-11-2011, 03:26 AM
After reading all the comments, it seems that it would be helpful to refresh memories. I will only briefly summarize the pertinent points (specific to Demeco) of the analysis of NFL players that I reviewed previously for Stephanie's blog in the Chronicle.



*1/3 of the players were NEVER able to return to the NFL

*Defensively, linebackers experienced the greatest drop in power ratings (DEFENSIVE POWER RATING calculated as a total of TACKLES + INTERCEPTIONS), followed by cornerbacks, defensive tackles, and defensive ends. The average decrease was 95% (p=0.09), 87% (p=0.03), 64% (p=0.01), and 55% (p=0.03), respectively. In other words, LBs were the players (both offensive and defensive) that had the most drop off of all players to return.

*Their 1st season post injury tended to be their BEST performing season post injury.......but significantly down from the 3 years prior to injury. Each subsequent post injury season saw a DECREASE (not an increase)in performance from the prior season as measured up to 3 years post injury.



As I explained at the time that I presented the data, there were definite limitations to the study. But even if you felt justified in halving the post injury power rating losses due to these limitations, the numbers would still be quite discouraging.

According to the available data, absent Demeco's elbow injury, this season could have been Demeco's best chance to show his most productive post injury season. There is always that "miraculous" exceptional case that occurs out there, and that is true.......but realistically the odds are not with Demeco.

Its sad to read that but at least with Demeco's contract situation the Texans will likely have to give him plenty of time to show what he can be either way.

Also, there is chance there to allow Sharpton to develop further AND draft his eventual replacement in there so this shouldn't become too big a problem for the team down the line.

That said I've seen seperate comments highlighting that both Demeco's numbers appear low this season, and that he's only been in on as little as 17 snaps a game, which makes those numbers look a lot better all of a sudden.

Showtime100
11-11-2011, 03:40 AM
I hate to be the guy who points it out, but is DeMeco Ryans overpaid? He doesn't play in dime packages, and I don't even see him on the field much anymore. He's not as fast or explosive as he once was, yet he's being paid like a superstar and not producing like one.

Through 9 games, he only has 21 tackles, 0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 2 pass defensed.

I think you got your answer, but I like the thread in that it's nice to see an overwhelming vote of support for DeMeco by the TexansTalk'ers.

Rey
11-11-2011, 06:38 AM
Yes he is overpaid.

I like demeco, but I think we could get similar production for a cheaper price.

If the info cloak posted holds true then he will be even more overpaid than he already is.

It sucks terribly, but it is what it is.

thunderkyss
11-11-2011, 08:38 AM
Yes he is overpaid.

I like demeco, but I think we could get similar production for a cheaper price.

If the info cloak posted holds true then he will be even more overpaid than he already is.

It sucks terribly, but it is what it is.

Yep, Andre is overpaid as well. I think we can get production similar to what he's put up this year, at a lot lower cost.

If the info Cloak posted holds true, then he'll be even more overpaid than he already is.

It sucks... terribly, but it is what it is.

badboy
11-11-2011, 09:04 AM
After reading all the comments, it seems that it would be helpful to refresh memories. I will only briefly summarize the pertinent points (specific to Demeco) of the analysis of NFL players that I reviewed previously for Stephanie's blog in the Chronicle.



*1/3 of the players were NEVER able to return to the NFL

*Defensively, linebackers experienced the greatest drop in power ratings (DEFENSIVE POWER RATING calculated as a total of TACKLES + INTERCEPTIONS), followed by cornerbacks, defensive tackles, and defensive ends. The average decrease was 95% (p=0.09), 87% (p=0.03), 64% (p=0.01), and 55% (p=0.03), respectively. In other words, LBs were the players (both offensive and defensive) that had the most drop off of all players to return.

*Their 1st season post injury tended to be their BEST performing season post injury.......but significantly down from the 3 years prior to injury. Each subsequent post injury season saw a DECREASE (not an increase)in performance from the prior season as measured up to 3 years post injury.



As I explained at the time that I presented the data, there were definite limitations to the study. But even if you felt justified in halving the post injury power rating losses due to these limitations, the numbers would still be quite discouraging.

According to the available data, absent Demeco's elbow injury, this season could have been Demeco's best chance to show his most productive post injury season. There is always that "miraculous" exceptional case that occurs out there, and that is true.......but realistically the odds are not with Demeco.So, maybe I was correct in selecting an ILB in my mock draft first round.

BigBull17
11-11-2011, 09:09 AM
Injuries have been a part of why he has been limited in PT. The other variable is Cushing playing out of his ****ing mind.

Wolf6151
11-11-2011, 09:32 AM
After reading all the comments, it seems that it would be helpful to refresh memories. I will only briefly summarize the pertinent points (specific to Demeco) of the analysis of NFL players that I reviewed previously for Stephanie's blog in the Chronicle.



*1/3 of the players were NEVER able to return to the NFL

*Defensively, linebackers experienced the greatest drop in power ratings (DEFENSIVE POWER RATING calculated as a total of TACKLES + INTERCEPTIONS), followed by cornerbacks, defensive tackles, and defensive ends. The average decrease was 95% (p=0.09), 87% (p=0.03), 64% (p=0.01), and 55% (p=0.03), respectively. In other words, LBs were the players (both offensive and defensive) that had the most drop off of all players to return.

*Their 1st season post injury tended to be their BEST performing season post injury.......but significantly down from the 3 years prior to injury. Each subsequent post injury season saw a DECREASE (not an increase)in performance from the prior season as measured up to 3 years post injury.



As I explained at the time that I presented the data, there were definite limitations to the study. But even if you felt justified in halving the post injury power rating losses due to these limitations, the numbers would still be quite discouraging.

According to the available data, absent Demeco's elbow injury, this season could have been Demeco's best chance to show his most productive post injury season. There is always that "miraculous" exceptional case that occurs out there, and that is true.......but realistically the odds are not with Demeco.


I appreciate your input. Thanks. Unfortunately I think the Texans will be like most posters here burying their heads in the sand and hoping that Demeco is the 1 in 100 player that makes a full recovery to pre-injury level. Yes Demeco is overpaid for his current level of production. I don't know how many years it will take to pay him the guaranteed portion of his contract but I'll bet the Texans will bring him back next year.

TimeKiller
11-11-2011, 10:51 AM
Nothing like toughing out multiple injuries and then having people question your salary over it.

Rough. I think the most overpaid player on the team is probably Shiloh Keo.

VTexan
11-11-2011, 10:57 AM
Can anyone truly say he is a liability out there? He still reads the game very well and helps his teammates read the game as well. (remember Brooks Reed is a rookie and Barwin doesn't exactly have a whole lot of game experience either).

His injury has hampered him no doubt, but it helps that we are in a 3-4 and he doesn't exactly need to be everywhere on the pitch. Demeco will only get better (and has been if you watch some game film) as the season progresses. I look forward to seeing Cushing and Demeco being the center of the defense for a few more years.


inb4 Schaub is overpaid.

TexansBull
12-18-2011, 10:24 PM
I have heard a couple of people still talking that Demeco isn't looking good while I believe next year we may see a Demeco that is more dominant because of his injury this year and his achilles injury last year. What do you guys think? Is he still the starter or should he be replaced? For the record, I say we keep him.

EllisUnit
12-18-2011, 10:28 PM
to me i see him getting better after every game, look at today how he seperated Shockey from the ball, the boy is still the starter.