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awc713
11-09-2011, 05:59 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but our 2009 draft class has been amazing so far. They're the reason we are where we are right now. Here it is:

1- Cushing
2- Barwin
3- Antione Caldwell (?)
4- Quin
5- Casey
6- McCain
7- Nolan

Undrafted: Foster

note: if you don't want to talk about this draft, no need to come in and bash the thread for whatever reason. just continue on with your day.

What are your thoughts on this draft class? Best of all-time (for Texans?)

eriadoc
11-09-2011, 06:05 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but our 2009 draft class has been amazing so far. They're the reason we are where we are right now. Here it is:

1- Cushing
2- Barwin
3- Antione Caldwell (?)
4- Quin
5- Casey
6- McCain
7- Nolan

Undrafted: Foster

note: if you don't want to talk about this draft, no need to come in and bash the thread for whatever reason. just continue on with your day.

What are your thoughts on this draft class? Best of all-time (for Texans?)

I think it's still too early to say best all-time, especially when you consider the quality of players taken in '06 (though not quantity). I had much higher hopes for Caldwell than what he's shown. I was pretty high on him coming out of Alabama, but he has disappointed. There's a part of me that wonders how much of that is related to moving him from C to G, but truthfully, if he was as good as he was supposed to be, he'd have beaten out one of the two guys we have in there now (not to take anything away from either).

On balance though, it's been the best draft for depth. Cushing is a star and the rest are JAG starters/depth.

Maddict5
11-09-2011, 06:39 PM
also jamison was undrafted as well as arian too

it was a great draft. the 2006, 2009 and 2011 drafts are the main reason we're where we are today

ObsiWan
11-09-2011, 06:47 PM
I think it's still too early to say best all-time, especially when you consider the quality of players taken in '06 (though not quantity). I had much higher hopes for Caldwell than what he's shown. I was pretty high on him coming out of Alabama, but he has disappointed. There's a part of me that wonders how much of that is related to moving him from C to G, but truthfully, if he was as good as he was supposed to be, he'd have beaten out one of the two guys we have in there now (not to take anything away from either).

On balance though, it's been the best draft for depth. Cushing is a star and the rest are JAG starters/depth.

Not in my mind. A.C. was either supposed to take the center job away from Myers or light a fire under Myers' butt. The latter happened. So at the end of the day, we have what we were after: A significant upgrade at the center position and a, as a bonus, a fairly decent backup center who can also play guard.
:specnatz:

dalemurphy
11-09-2011, 07:41 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but our 2009 draft class has been amazing so far. They're the reason we are where we are right now. Here it is:

1- Cushing
2- Barwin
3- Antione Caldwell (?)
4- Quin
5- Casey
6- McCain
7- Nolan

Undrafted: Foster

note: if you don't want to talk about this draft, no need to come in and bash the thread for whatever reason. just continue on with your day.

What are your thoughts on this draft class? Best of all-time (for Texans?)

Here's What I wrote the week before the season started:

Mark down this date. I am marking my territory. The Texans are about to burst into NFL relevancy. We are going to look back on the Texans draft 0f 2009 and late April signings as the heart of everything it built. Yes, the 2006 draft was a good one, and it brought the Texans three probowl players and other contributors. However, by the end of this year, every one will realize the magnitude of the 2009 off-season… And, I’m not even referring to the Texans best free agent acquisition in its history: Antonio Smith. At the risk of furthering my reputation as an obnoxious optimist, what the Texans did in 2009 will eventually be on one of those NFL top 10 lists highlighting all-time great NFL drafts. Call me crazy today, but be prepared to eat some mighty fine tasting crow with each one of my many “I told you so”‘s.

1. Brian Cushing- has already been an elite linebacker as a rookie. I know many are concerned about his health and steroid issues. The guy is a great football player, and as he returns to 100% from his patella surgery, he will be making a lot of plays in Wade’s defense. Bradie James had eight sacks under Wade Phillips as an ILB in a single season. Cushing is going to have seasons like that. If you have watched Lawerence Timmons on the Steelers, I think that is a pretty accurate picture of what Cushing will do in Wade’s 3-4.

2. Connor Barwin- Get ready for double-digit sacks. Barwin is going to explode this season. He is an absolutely perfect fit for the hybrid position in Wade’s 3-4. Barwin has a great motor, incredible athleticism, and an awareness on the field that will lead to batted balls, interceptions, and all kinds of special pursuit plays.

3. Antoine Caldewll- is a quality interior offensive lineman that has the potential to be very good. I was surprised by his inconsistency last season, especially considering the great preseason he had, but he was still pretty good. He also has the ability and experience to play center and even right tackle, if needed.

4. Glover Quin- is taking to his move to safety naturally. He looks intuitive and aggressive at safety. Instead of being the best cornerback in a poor defense, he is becoming the quarterback of a good one.

4b. Anthony Hill- I wish him well.

5. James Casey- not only has become a rather proficient lead blocker, but his flexibility, athleticism, and unique skill set is adding a new dynamic to an already successful offense. The guy could end up with 50 catches and a 10 yard per catch average from the fullback position. Watching Casey this preseason, you can see the giddy mad scientist in Kubiak shining through.

6. Brice McCain- made this team the first week of training camp. Wade loves his coverage skills. McCain will be on the field on passing downs most of the time, I think. He’s a little too small to play on run downs or be a starter, but he will contribute heavily for the defense on 3rd downs and late in games.

7. Troy Nolan- knows how to make plays. He made them in college and he is making them now. Nolan can cover and hit. Even with a healthy Quin and Manning, Nolan will see the field frequently when Wade employs his three safety packages. Look forward to years of Troy Nolan making plays.

Here’s where a great draft turns into absurdity:

UDFA #1. Arian foster- Not a lot of Rick Smith bashing goes on at TBB. Here is an example why we love the guy. Rick Smith stole Foster from the Bears in 2009 when he made the unprecedented move of offering a rookie UDFA a 2 year contract. Foster did not play until week 15. He looked good as a rooke but last year he did a pretty amazing Eric Dickerson impersonation. This year, he seems prepared to humiliate defenses an earn his multi-million dollar contract. He got payed about $75 per yard last season and will likely earn a similar amount this season. How does that compare with all the 2009 rookie running backs drafted ahead of him?

UDFA #2. Tim Jamison- Wow! I’ve been screaming about how good he is since late in 2009. I was wrong. He is much better than I thought. Jamison will get heavy snaps this year and in years following as their 3rd DE. By the way, he may have a better motor than Antonio Smith, if that’s possible. Jamison’s effort and energy made a 28-0 loss to Minnesota enjoyable on Thursday night.



By my count, that’s 5 elite NFL players at their respective positions: Cushing, Barwin, Quin, Casey, Foster. Also, that is elite depth and/or quality starting material at four positions: Antoine Caldwell, Brice McCain, Troy Nolan, and Tim Jamison. Other than the Louisiana Purchase of 1803, I can’t think of an organization getting better value for its investment.(texansbullblog (http://www.texansbullblog.com/prediction-2009-texans-draft/news/))

TimeKiller
11-09-2011, 08:06 PM
Do undrafted free agents count in discussions of the draft?

I don't think so. A feather in the cap of Smith but if Foster was so good then he should've drafted him in the 3rd round where Caldwell sits. Caldwell really takes a bite out of the overall grade. I see 1 elite player, 3 quality starters and 3 uh..."regular" depth guys. Free agents aside, that's no more than a B+ overall. A good draft by all considerations but not topping 2006 to me. That draft had 4 top tier talents fall our way, a possibly another if not for the Daynetrain.

UNdrafted.

Calling Barwin, Quin and Casey...3 of my favorite players...elite? That's pretty questionable. Elite depth? Really? That isn't kind of totally an oxymoron to you?

dalemurphy
11-09-2011, 08:18 PM
Do undrafted free agents count in discussions of the draft?

I don't think so. A feather in the cap of Smith but if Foster was so good then he should've drafted him in the 3rd round where Caldwell sits. Caldwell really takes a bite out of the overall grade. I see 1 elite player, 3 quality starters and 3 uh..."regular" depth guys. Free agents aside, that's no more than a B+ overall. A good draft by all considerations but not topping 2006 to me. That draft had 4 top tier talents fall our way, a possibly another if not for the Daynetrain.

UNdrafted.

Calling Barwin, Quin and Casey...3 of my favorite players...elite? That's pretty questionable. Elite depth? Really? That isn't kind of totally an oxymoron to you?



that's a new one... actually criticizing the organization for taking a great player late in the draft, or after the draft. The Patriots really screwed up taking Brady in the 6th round when he was so much better than there 1st and 2nd round picks. Morons!

ArlingtonTexan
11-09-2011, 11:47 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but our 2009 draft class has been amazing so far. They're the reason we are where we are right now. Here it is:

1- Cushing
2- Barwin
3- Antione Caldwell (?)
4- Quin
5- Casey
6- McCain
7- Nolan

Undrafted: Foster

note: if you don't want to talk about this draft, no need to come in and bash the thread for whatever reason. just continue on with your day. What are your thoughts on this draft class? Best of all-time (for Texans?)

Welcome to the board and I hope that you are able to find this is a place where reasonable discussion takes place.

Just as you are allowed to post this thread, people have the freedom to react to your thread as thiey wish as long as they are not using improper language nor making personal attacks.

People can and will disagree with any opinion that you feel is post worthy. Nothing good comes from telling poeple how to react to your post.

76Texan
11-09-2011, 11:57 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but our 2009 draft class has been amazing so far. They're the reason we are where we are right now. Here it is:

1- Cushing
2- Barwin
3- Antione Caldwell (?)
4- Quin
5- Casey
6- McCain
7- Nolan

Undrafted: Foster

note: if you don't want to talk about this draft, no need to come in and bash the thread for whatever reason. just continue on with your day.

What are your thoughts on this draft class? Best of all-time (for Texans?)

I was pretty close to "on the money" on almost all of the guys the Texans had drafted or acquired starting with 2009 when I began to spend a lot of time on football.

Cushing was a no-brainer (I didn't mind either Cushing or CMIII).

I actually predicted that Barwin will become a starter down the road and play well for us (he was a converted TE and needed some time to develop.)

I said that Caldwell would not replace Myers when I analyzed his college game tapes.
Even in his 2nd PS, I said he will not have an easy time trying to displace Brisiel from the Guard spot.

I didn't have Quin's college tapes, but I did say very early on that he kept impressing me game after game (as a nickel) in his rookie season.
His move to safety was logical to me, since I never thought he can make it as a good starting CB.

Those of us who watched Rice football knew that Casey is a versatile, older player who can fill different needs as a utility player.
I noted that his blocking was adequate when we played him at FB some during his first PS.

I liked McCain when I scouted his teammate Vontae Davis at Utah.
I said that McCain can make the team.
Last year, I claimed that "pound for pound, McCain is as physical as any CB"; I just don't want Bush to play him against too-tall or too-big receivers.

I noted that Nolan was a play-maker in college, but he was inconsistent (sometimes he would make the wrong read or take a bad angle).
Overall, I said that Nolan is better than Barber and should have a better future.
This off-season, I said I hope the light come on in his head (ie., if he can improve in the areas mentioned above) then he's a guy Wade can work with (using the terminology of CB, a regular poster here).

A note here is that Anthony Hill was left out; he was another 4th rounder.
I didn't like him.
During the draft, I said that the Texans can do better drafting Brandon Myers in the 5th.
He was drafted in the 6th round by the Raiders.
He had suited up for them in 34 games, starting 9.

I had a thread analyzing Foster out of college.
His game suits the ZBS scheme very well.
I declared he was a steal as an UDFA.
In a different thread, I even talked about how I watched the other Vols RB Hardesty play.
I noticed that overall, Hardesty happened to receive better blockings when he was in the game, and yet Foster still got better results.
(Hardesty was drafted in the second round by the Browns in 2010).

I talked about Jamison out of Michigan in another UDFA thread.
I really liked his motor.
I figured he can make the team somehow.
I projected him as a rotational player down the road.

Many of those calls were very bold and very early.
I just want to put them out here so that people (who didn't read many of my posts, especially before draft day) know that these thoughts weren't in hindsight.

BigBull17
11-10-2011, 10:43 AM
I didn't know much about Nolan, but once I read up on him I really liked what I saw. He looked like a play maker with a nose for the ball and could lay the wood. I thout Quinn should have been at safety from day one. Didn't like Cushing because of the roids rumors.

beerlover
11-10-2011, 02:24 PM
Lork 88 did a nice write-up worth revisiting 4 those so inclined - http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61089

Jackie Chiles
11-10-2011, 04:15 PM
I liked McCain when I scouted his teammate Vontae Davis at Utah.
I said that McCain can make the team.
Last year, I claimed that "pound for pound, McCain is as physical as any CB"; I just don't want Bush to play him against too-tall or too-big receivers.

Good overall analysis but to prove that I read your entire post I have to point out that his teammate at Utah was Sean Smith. Davis is now Smith's teammate in Miami though.

steelbtexan
11-10-2011, 09:46 PM
Do undrafted free agents count in discussions of the draft?

I don't think so. A feather in the cap of Smith but if Foster was so good then he should've drafted him in the 3rd round where Caldwell sits. Caldwell really takes a bite out of the overall grade. I see 1 elite player, 3 quality starters and 3 uh..."regular" depth guys. Free agents aside, that's no more than a B+ overall. A good draft by all considerations but not topping 2006 to me. That draft had 4 top tier talents fall our way, a possibly another if not for the Daynetrain.

UNdrafted.

Calling Barwin, Quin and Casey...3 of my favorite players...elite? That's pretty questionable. Elite depth? Really? That isn't kind of totally an oxymoron to you?

Ummmm...... No

I've got Foster and Cushing as all pro players

Barwin and Quin as above avg starters, who are young and only going to get better.

Other than hill the rest of the draft is made up of well above avg depth players. Never though I would say this, but great job by Rick and Gary.

Having Wade put all of the pieces in the right places (Cush ILB, Barwin WLB, Quin S) has made all of the difference in the world.

steelbtexan
11-10-2011, 10:12 PM
I was pretty close to "on the money" on almost all of the guys the Texans had drafted or acquired starting with 2009 when I began to spend a lot of time on football.

Cushing was a no-brainer (I didn't mind either Cushing or CMIII).

I actually predicted that Barwin will become a starter down the road and play well for us (he was a converted TE and needed some time to develop.)

I said that Caldwell would not replace Myers when I analyzed his college game tapes.
Even in his 2nd PS, I said he will not have an easy time trying to displace Brisiel from the Guard spot.

I didn't have Quin's college tapes, but I did say very early on that he kept impressing me game after game (as a nickel) in his rookie season.
His move to safety was logical to me, since I never thought he can make it as a good starting CB.

Those of us who watched Rice football knew that Casey is a versatile, older player who can fill different needs as a utility player.
I noted that his blocking was adequate when we played him at FB some during his first PS.

I liked McCain when I scouted his teammate Vontae Davis at Utah.
I said that McCain can make the team.
Last year, I claimed that "pound for pound, McCain is as physical as any CB"; I just don't want Bush to play him against too-tall or too-big receivers.

I noted that Nolan was a play-maker in college, but he was inconsistent (sometimes he would make the wrong read or take a bad angle).
Overall, I said that Nolan is better than Barber and should have a better future.
This off-season, I said I hope the light come on in his head (ie., if he can improve in the areas mentioned above) then he's a guy Wade can work with (using the terminology of CB, a regular poster here).

A note here is that Anthony Hill was left out; he was another 4th rounder.
I didn't like him.
During the draft, I said that the Texans can do better drafting Brandon Myers in the 5th.
He was drafted in the 6th round by the Raiders.
He had suited up for them in 34 games, starting 9.

I had a thread analyzing Foster out of college.
His game suits the ZBS scheme very well.
I declared he was a steal as an UDFA.
In a different thread, I even talked about how I watched the other Vols RB Hardesty play.
I noticed that overall, Hardesty happened to receive better blockings when he was in the game, and yet Foster still got better results.
(Hardesty was drafted in the second round by the Browns in 2010).

I talked about Jamison out of Michigan in another UDFA thread.
I really liked his motor.
I figured he can make the team somehow.
I projected him as a rotational player down the road.

Many of those calls were very bold and very early.
I just want to put them out here so that people (who didn't read many of my posts, especially before draft day) know that these thoughts weren't in hindsight. Thanks for the rep Senor Stan.

I called the Cushing and Barwin picks and really liked the rest of the draft. (Even though I wanted CM3 better family lineage)

I remembered alot of your posts about this draft and you really were spot on. Give us your evaluation of the 2011 draft. I thought it was a great draft as well. With alot of high effort guys that football was priorty #1.

TimeKiller
11-10-2011, 11:08 PM
that's a new one... actually criticizing the organization for taking a great player late in the draft, or after the draft. The Patriots really screwed up taking Brady in the 6th round when he was so much better than there 1st and 2nd round picks. Morons!

What are you typing about? Brady? I just asked if undrafted FREE AGENTS really counted as part of the draft. I don't see how they have any relation to the draft. Arian Foster could not have been less drafted. He was a street free agent out of college. If there was a draft in 2009, he was not part of it. The bullet point of these posts are......

Antonio Smith was a free agent. Does that make him a draft pick too?


Ummmm...... No

I've got Foster and Cushing as all pro players

Barwin and Quin as above avg starters, who are young and only going to get better.

Other than hill the rest of the draft is made up of well above avg depth players. Never though I would say this, but great job by Rick and Gary.

Having Wade put all of the pieces in the right places (Cush ILB, Barwin WLB, Quin S) has made all of the difference in the world.
Ummmmmmm I'm sorry for having a different opinion on what a draft pick is. As far as "above average depth" and "elite depth" y'all need to hold off on the adjectives. Elite depth exists on pro-bowl teams. McCain is pretty good for a dime back. Nolan is pretty decent as the 5th safety going into the season. Caldwell hasn't made huge jumps in performance like Myers or Brisiel but he seems to be carving himself a niche as a backup, much like Butler does.

76Texan
11-12-2011, 01:14 AM
Good overall analysis but to prove that I read your entire post I have to point out that his teammate at Utah was Sean Smith. Davis is now Smith's teammate in Miami though.

You're right, I just typed the wrong name.
I made several points about Sean Smith, the most important one was that he worked out of the shuffle and turn/run/bail at Utah (he had no backpedal, and I think he still doesn't.)
Vontae Davis (Illinois) was another CB that I "reported" on during pre-draft that year.
Both of these guys were drafted by the Dolphins.
Together with Jason Allen, they all played the same way (pretty much): no backpedal that I can see.
I don't remember if I mentioned this fact when I talked about Allen during his time at Miami.
(Note: Vontae did work out of the backpedal in college.)

(I think I might have used the Dolphins as one example that the shuffle isn't anything unique. The Redskins of old with Darell Green was the first example I used a couple years ago - their playbook indicates so.)

houstonspartan
11-12-2011, 01:36 AM
The 2009 draft is the best of all time for the Texans?

Seriously?

LMAO.

Um, the 2006 Texans draft is probably considered one of the best draft classes in all of the NFL over the last decade. Now, MAYBE the 2009 class will EVENTUALLY catch up. They certainly have the potential. But for now, it's too soon to tell.

But for now, no draft class from this team can touch 2006.

76Texan
11-12-2011, 01:43 AM
Thanks for the rep Senor Stan.

I called the Cushing and Barwin picks and really liked the rest of the draft. (Even though I wanted CM3 better family lineage)

I remembered alot of your posts about this draft and you really were spot on. Give us your evaluation of the 2011 draft. I thought it was a great draft as well. With alot of high effort guys that football was priorty #1.

It's tougher this time around for several reasons (defending KJ, LOL - studying Wade's defense - lack of time as I rejoined the "labor force").

Let me start with a few things, even though you already know a few of my stances.

I signed off on JJ Wattt 110%.
I don't think I mentioned it here on the board, but when I conversed with my brother-in-law (the one who still dislikes KJ), I made this statement:
As much as Mario is the ebony (as the #1 pick), Watt is the ivory (at the #11 pick).
That was a very strong statement, I'd say.
I had no doubt that Watt will be the starter day one.

Reed is a little different.
The first thing I said about him was that you can't have too many effort guys on your team (before the draft.)
I noticed him when I scouted Mitchell (yeah, I also called the Mitchell pick before the 2010 draft, along with KJ.)

Take Reed in a heartbeat at that draft slot (even though I thought that the Texans probably won't draft an OLB in the first two rounds - due to the fact that I believed Mario can play well as an OLB and that most indications pointed to Barwin making a full recovery; there was more to it, but let's keep it simple for now.)
I will pick up on Reed in the next post!

houstonspartan
11-12-2011, 01:52 AM
It's tougher this time around for several reasons (defending KJ, LOL - studying Wade's defense - lack of time as I rejoined the "labor force").

Let me start with a few things, even though you already know a few of my stances.

I signed off on JJ Wattt 110%.
I don't think I mentioned it here on the board, but when I conversed with my brother-in-law (the one who still dislikes KJ), I made this statement:
As much as Mario is the ebony (as the #1 pick), Watt is the ivory (at the #11 pick).
That was a very strong statement, I'd say.
I had no doubt that Watt will be the starter day one.

Reed is a little different.
The first thing I said about him was that you can't have too many effort guys on your team (before the draft.)
I noticed him when I scouted Mitchell (yeah, I also called the Mitchell pick before the 2010 draft, along with KJ.)

Take Reed in a heartbeat at that draft slot (even though I thought that the Texans probably won't draft an OLB in the first two rounds - due to the fact that I believed Mario can play well as an OLB and that most indications pointed to Barwin making a full recovery; there was more to it, but let's keep it simple for now.)
I will pick up on Reed in the next post!

Funny you should mention Reed. I've been reading several articles the last few days about how Bill Belechik has screwed up his last few drafts and how he passed on major defensive talent.

I'm pretty certain that the buzz around Reed was that New England was going to go after him. Yet, when it came time for us to pick in the second round, there he was.

bo orlando
11-12-2011, 01:55 AM
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but our 2009 draft class has been amazing so far. They're the reason we are where we are right now. Here it is:

1- Cushing
2- Barwin
3- Antione Caldwell (?)
4- Quin
5- Casey
6- McCain
7- Nolan

Undrafted: Foster

note: if you don't want to talk about this draft, no need to come in and bash the thread for whatever reason. just continue on with your day.

What are your thoughts on this draft class? Best of all-time (for Texans?)

It's a good draft to be sure, but don't go crazy with the hyperbole. Cushing and Foster (if you can call him a draftee) are home run picks, Quinn looks decent, but the rest is whatever. Barwin has been pretty mediocre since Mario went down, and Caldwell can't get on the field. Everybody else is depth or unproven, even Casey.

The 2006 draft brought Mario, Demeco, Winston, Daniels. That's four pro-bowlers (Winston seems likely to get in this year), and more importantly four bullseyes with the first 4 of 5 picks (the spencer injury unfortunately being the one failed pick).

76Texan
11-12-2011, 02:03 AM
The 2009 draft is the best of all time for the Texans?

Seriously?

LMAO.

Um, the 2006 Texans draft is probably considered one of the best draft classes in all of the NFL over the last decade. Now, MAYBE the 2009 class will EVENTUALLY catch up. They certainly have the potential. But for now, it's too soon to tell.

But for now, no draft class from this team can touch 2006.We're not debating which draft class is the better, at least I don't think so.

When we do, we need to consider that the 06 class started with a #1 pick and the 2011 class started with a #11 pick.

dalemurphy
11-12-2011, 02:38 AM
We're not debating which draft class is the better, at least I don't think so.

When we do, we need to consider that the 06 class started with a #1 pick and the 2011 class started with a #11 pick.

The original post was about the significant impact the 2009 draft class was having on this season. It's hard to argue, with intellectual honesty, that they have been remarkable this year and are the primary reason for the success.

That being said, if anyone wants to argue about which class is "better", I'll take the 2009 class any day of the week.

Other than Andre Johnson, Brian Cushing is the best player to ever wear a Texans' jersey. Other than Andre Johnson and Brian Cushing, Arian Foster is the best player ever to wear a Texans' jersey.

Beyond the 2nd and 3rd greatest Texans ever, the draft includes 5 key members of one of the best defenses in the NFL:
Connor Barwin
Glover Quin
Brice McCain
Troy Nolan
Tim Jamison

It also includes a great running game's best blocking FB, who also happens to be the best receiving FB in the NFL: James Casey.

The worst pick of this amazing draft appears to be the Texans primary backup Center and Guard who played hundreds of snaps as part of a very good OL in 2010.

Yeah, how could anyone think this draft is on par with 2006?

Scooter
11-12-2011, 02:47 AM
i think it's fair to call this a homerun draft, though i dont think anything will touch 06. we grabbed 4 probowlers (winston will be) and that doesnt include what i will forever think was a first ballot HOF left tackle in charles spencer.

i also dont think it's too early to call the 09 draft a great success. cushing is all-pro. barwin is producing as a starter and moved to anchor in our #1 defense. caldwell is a serviceable backup. quinn was our best corner last year and is progressing into a pretty dang good safety. casey has proven his versatility and is a stud as a 5th round pick. mccain and nolan are both still on the roster and performing above where their draft status would suggest.

1 all pro, 3 starters, 3 backups, and one bust (hill) ... monster draft. if we stretch it into foster and jamison, it becomes truely awesome, but that is venturing into a bit of hindsight (if not outright luck).

dalemurphy
11-12-2011, 08:38 AM
i think it's fair to call this a homerun draft, though i dont think anything will touch 06. we grabbed 4 probowlers (winston will be) and that doesnt include what i will forever think was a first ballot HOF left tackle in charles spencer.

i also dont think it's too early to call the 09 draft a great success. cushing is all-pro. barwin is producing as a starter and moved to anchor in our #1 defense. caldwell is a serviceable backup. quinn was our best corner last year and is progressing into a pretty dang good safety. casey has proven his versatility and is a stud as a 5th round pick. mccain and nolan are both still on the roster and performing above where their draft status would suggest.

1 all pro, 3 starters, 3 backups, and one bust (hill) ... monster draft. if we stretch it into foster and jamison, it becomes truely awesome, but that is venturing into a bit of hindsight (if not outright luck).


Any draft is subject to "luck". After all, anytime a team makes a great pick it is dependent on others missing the player before them. The Foster signing has less to do with luck than any other pick, because Smith outbid the Bears for him and offered him an unprecedented 2 year contract to steal him away from Chicago.

thunderkyss
11-12-2011, 09:49 AM
I said that Caldwell would not replace Myers when I analyzed his college game tapes.
Even in his 2nd PS, I said he will not have an easy time trying to displace Brisiel from the Guard spot.


I think drafting Caldwell put Brisiel on notice

He was hurt in 2009, that was the year we went 9-7 & Brisiel missed 11 games. We didn't have a run game in 2009. Not until Arian Foster that is.

2010 Brisiel came back & shared time with Caldwell. Very much like what is going on with Allen & Kj. However judging from our run game of 2010 & 2011 I would assume Brisiel starting is more because he is doing a good job than Caldwell not doing a good job.

It would be like drafting a developmental center one year & having Nick Mangold drop in your lap. Mangold's going to play. But just because your draft pick doesn't beat him out in camp doesn't mean he can't play.

dalemurphy
11-12-2011, 10:03 AM
I think drafting Caldwell put Brisiel on notice

He was hurt in 2009, that was the year we went 9-7 & Brisiel missed 11 games. We didn't have a run game in 2009. Not until Arian Foster that is.

2010 Brisiel came back & shared time with Caldwell. Very much like what is going on with Allen & Kj. However judging from our run game of 2010 & 2011 I would assume Brisiel starting is more because he is doing a good job than Caldwell not doing a good job.

It would be like drafting a developmental center one year & having Nick Mangold drop in your lap. Mangold's going to play. But just because your draft pick doesn't beat him out in camp doesn't mean he can't play.

Caldwell played pretty well last year. He lost the competition for RG this year, primarily due to his injured ankle.

beerlover
11-12-2011, 10:15 AM
Any draft is subject to "luck". After all, anytime a team makes a great pick it is dependent on others missing the player before them. The Foster signing has less to do with luck than any other pick, because Smith outbid the Bears for him and offered him an unprecedented 2 year contract to steal him away from Chicago.

Sometimes I wonder about a GM's or teams draft mind set when they draft player A who has very little chance of making the team but go hard after player B who went undrafted & passed on by every team in every round? Is it possible they feel smarter than the next guy & expect him to go undrafted or do they make mistakes losing where they are on their draft board? I distinctly remember Foster getting a 2nd rd. grade if he had come out his Junior year but instead opted to return to Tennessee to finish school & play one more year of College ball then he got hurt. Still, should have been drafted by some team. Give Rick credit for making an offer Foster could not refuse but also certainly there was an element of luck involved as well :turtle:

bo orlando
11-12-2011, 01:25 PM
Sometimes I wonder about a GM's or teams draft mind set when they draft player A who has very little chance of making the team but go hard after player B who went undrafted & passed on by every team in every round? Is it possible they feel smarter than the next guy & expect him to go undrafted or do they make mistakes losing where they are on their draft board? I distinctly remember Foster getting a 2nd rd. grade if he had come out his Junior year but instead opted to return to Tennessee to finish school & play one more year of College ball then he got hurt. Still, should have been drafted by some team. Give Rick credit for making an offer Foster could not refuse but also certainly there was an element of luck involved as well :turtle:

That's the thing. You wouldn't have to make Foster an offer he couldn't refuse if you just drafted him in the 7th round. It's hard to call Rick a genius if he couldn't recognize an all-pro running back enough to draft him over a backup safety.

bo orlando
11-12-2011, 01:34 PM
The original post was about the significant impact the 2009 draft class was having on this season. It's hard to argue, with intellectual honesty, that they have been remarkable this year and are the primary reason for the success.

That being said, if anyone wants to argue about which class is "better", I'll take the 2009 class any day of the week.

Other than Andre Johnson, Brian Cushing is the best player to ever wear a Texans' jersey. Other than Andre Johnson and Brian Cushing, Arian Foster is the best player ever to wear a Texans' jersey.

Beyond the 2nd and 3rd greatest Texans ever, the draft includes 5 key members of one of the best defenses in the NFL:
Connor Barwin
Glover Quin
Brice McCain
Troy Nolan
Tim Jamison

It also includes a great running game's best blocking FB, who also happens to be the best receiving FB in the NFL: James Casey.

The worst pick of this amazing draft appears to be the Texans primary backup Center and Guard who played hundreds of snaps as part of a very good OL in 2010.

Yeah, how could anyone think this draft is on par with 2006?


Barwin, McCain, Nolan, and Jamison are replacement level guys and wouldn't be playing if the Texans had somebody better. Casey seems promising, but has had one good game as a pro, and is the second best blocking FB on the team (out of two), and only really stands out because the H-back position has gone out of style leaguewide since teams have moved to more shotgun formations.

It's a good draft-- heck, Cushing and Foster by themselves probably make it great no matter who else we drafted-- but don't act like it's some legendary, '74 steelers type thing.

houstonspartan
11-12-2011, 02:38 PM
The original post was about the significant impact the 2009 draft class was having on this season. It's hard to argue, with intellectual honesty, that they have been remarkable this year and are the primary reason for the success.

That being said, if anyone wants to argue about which class is "better", I'll take the 2009 class any day of the week.

Other than Andre Johnson, Brian Cushing is the best player to ever wear a Texans' jersey. Other than Andre Johnson and Brian Cushing, Arian Foster is the best player ever to wear a Texans' jersey.

Beyond the 2nd and 3rd greatest Texans ever, the draft includes 5 key members of one of the best defenses in the NFL:
Connor Barwin
Glover Quin
Brice McCain
Troy Nolan
Tim Jamison

It also includes a great running game's best blocking FB, who also happens to be the best receiving FB in the NFL: James Casey.

The worst pick of this amazing draft appears to be the Texans primary backup Center and Guard who played hundreds of snaps as part of a very good OL in 2010.

Yeah, how could anyone think this draft is on par with 2006?

You must be drunk or something. The 2006 Draft class is the foundation of this team.

steelbtexan
11-12-2011, 02:54 PM
You must be drunk or something. The 2006 Draft class is the foundation of this team.

Kinda dependson what you think of MW and Winston.

BTW, I agree with you on 2006 being the best draft in Texans history. However there's a case to be made. Foster and Cushing have made more of an impact than anybody in the 2006 draft. IMHO

ObsiWan
11-12-2011, 03:27 PM
Kinda dependson what you think of MW and Winston.

BTW, I agree with you on 2006 being the best draft in Texans history. However there's a case to be made. Foster and Cushing have made more of an impact than anybody in the 2006 draft. IMHO

This whole discussion is rather pointless. The 2006 draft class provided the foundation of what has evolved into a very solid team. Every year we've added significant pieces - some years more of the pieces worked than others. I would say that Foster and Cushing are the final pieces to the monster that we're building but I'm betting that the 2011 draft class will be the best because I'm including Wade Phillips in that class. Yeah, I said it. Wade Phillips, as DC, is the biggest pickup in franchise history.

Ladies and gents, we finally have a legitimate football team.
:doot:

thunderkyss
11-12-2011, 03:51 PM
Yeah, I said it. Wade Phillips, as DC, is the biggest pickup in franchise history.

Wait a minute.... the 4 years prior to Kubiak getting here, the offense was just as pathetic as the defense, ranking near the bottom in every offensive category.

Six years later (gosh has it been that long???? ) I think it is safe to say it is no fluke that the offense consistently rates with the better offenses in the league.

We do (as fans tend to when the team is losing) question the validity of that offense, mainly because it seems to struggle from time to time, last year as well as this season, despite knocking out 5,000+ yard seasons.

Ladies and gents, we finally have a legitimate football team.
:doot:

Both sides of the ball, Offense & Defense, & the Special teams is at least middle of the road.

EVOLVIST
11-12-2011, 05:38 PM
This thread is making hindsight look like foresight.

dalemurphy
11-12-2011, 05:48 PM
Barwin, McCain, Nolan, and Jamison are replacement level guys and wouldn't be playing if the Texans had somebody better. Casey seems promising, but has had one good game as a pro, and is the second best blocking FB on the team (out of two), and only really stands out because the H-back position has gone out of style leaguewide since teams have moved to more shotgun formations.

It's a good draft-- heck, Cushing and Foster by themselves probably make it great no matter who else we drafted-- but don't act like it's some legendary, '74 steelers type thing.

It's not legendary yet. I happen to think it is going to be.

Regarding Casey, you aren't watching the Texans with an open mind if you actually think Vickers has been the better blocker of the two. That's absurd!

I'm not sure your point about Barwin, McCain, Nolan, and Jamison... There's always someone better somewhere. If the Texans had someone better than Andre Johnson, he'd be playing instead. It amazes me at the cynicism of some. Those were four excellent picks and instead of embracing them, you would rather diminish their play. I don't get it. Those are 4 heavy contributors to the topped ranked defense in the NFL... By the way, all 4 of them are making a bigger impact on the defense than Mario Williams is currently and they will continue to be more relevant to the Texans first playoff appearence in their 10 year history than Mario will be.

dalemurphy
11-12-2011, 05:57 PM
This thread is making hindsight look like foresight.

No need to bring circumcision into the discussion.

houstonspartan
11-12-2011, 06:53 PM
This whole discussion is rather pointless. The 2006 draft class provided the foundation of what has evolved into a very solid team. Every year we've added significant pieces - some years more of the pieces worked than others. I would say that Foster and Cushing are the final pieces to the monster that we're building but I'm betting that the 2011 draft class will be the best because I'm including Wade Phillips in that class. Yeah, I said it. Wade Phillips, as DC, is the biggest pickup in franchise history.

Ladies and gents, we finally have a legitimate football team.
:doot:

Exactly. The whole thing started with 2006, and we have added since then.

Insideop
11-12-2011, 09:47 PM
That's the thing. You wouldn't have to make Foster an offer he couldn't refuse if you just drafted him in the 7th round. It's hard to call Rick a genius if he couldn't recognize an all-pro running back enough to draft him over a backup safety.

With this logic I guess all the GM's in the NFL are a bunch of morons since they all passed on Foster. At least Rick was smart enough to offer a 2 year deal!

Insideop
11-12-2011, 10:00 PM
It's a good draft-- heck, Cushing and Foster by themselves probably make it great no matter who else we drafted-- but don't act like it's some legendary, '74 steelers type thing.


Only time will tell!

I know some will say Foster and Jamison weren't drafted so they don't count. On the other hand, how many rounds was the draft back in 1974 compared to now? Either way, for the Texans, both 2006 and 2009 were very good drafts, and that's what you need to do to build championship teams! McNair has always said he wants an organization like the Steelers. He may be on his way!

bo orlando
11-12-2011, 11:49 PM
It's not legendary yet. I happen to think it is going to be.

Regarding Casey, you aren't watching the Texans with an open mind if you actually think Vickers has been the better blocker of the two. That's absurd!

I'm not sure your point about Barwin, McCain, Nolan, and Jamison... There's always someone better somewhere. If the Texans had someone better than Andre Johnson, he'd be playing instead. It amazes me at the cynicism of some. Those were four excellent picks and instead of embracing them, you would rather diminish their play. I don't get it. Those are 4 heavy contributors to the topped ranked defense in the NFL... By the way, all 4 of them are making a bigger impact on the defense than Mario Williams is currently and they will continue to be more relevant to the Texans first playoff appearence in their 10 year history than Mario will be.


Come on man, take off the goggles and try to be even a little objective.

ObsiWan
11-13-2011, 12:15 AM
It's not legendary yet. I happen to think it is going to be.

Regarding Casey, you aren't watching the Texans with an open mind if you actually think Vickers has been the better blocker of the two. That's absurd!

I'm not sure your point about Barwin, McCain, Nolan, and Jamison... There's always someone better somewhere. If the Texans had someone better than Andre Johnson, he'd be playing instead. It amazes me at the cynicism of some. Those were four excellent picks and instead of embracing them, you would rather diminish their play. I don't get it. Those are 4 heavy contributors to the topped ranked defense in the NFL... By the way, all 4 of them are making a bigger impact on the defense than Mario Williams is currently and they will continue to be more relevant to the Texans first playoff appearence in their 10 year history than Mario will be.
Classy. Way to kick a guy when he got hurt in service of your team. Real classy.
:hankpalm:

dalemurphy
11-13-2011, 05:26 AM
Classy. Way to kick a guy when he got hurt in service of your team. Real classy.
:hankpalm:

It is reality. People on this board continue to act as though Mario Williams is central to the success and failure of the defense while diminishing the impact/ability of other players (in this case: Barwin, Nolan, McCain, Jamison). Well, these are the guys that are making history for the Texans. Perhaps they don't have the amazing physical skills of Mario but why does that make them less valuable?

Connor Barwin already has more pass rush moves than Mario. Why is that? Barwin was a TE in college and has been in the NFL less than half the time Mario has, with the same coaching. Yet, one guy continues to work on his game and the other continues to rely on his failing physical dominance.

Tim Jamison plays with Antonio Smith's energy and effort. He understands his role and fulfills it without a complaint I'll take that guy on my team any day and I won't diminish his impact on the team simply because he was under-appreciated coming out of college, and he isn't starting over Antonio Smith and J.J. Watt.

Brice McCain is another guy that milks every bit of his God-given talents. Mario could learn a thing or two from this guy. He may not start but he plays the majority of snaps as the nickel CB. How's that pass defense doing?

Troy Nolan has stepped in for Danieal Manning and played well for him. Some on this board would rather diminish his achievement in defense of Mario... as if Mario is the one that is under-appeciated and Nolan gets too much credit.


Perhaps the fact that I don't play Madden football has something to do with our differences in perception. Perhaps I care less about style than some of you. I'm not sure what it is. I find it strange that the underdogs on this team are slow to be embraced while the underachievers are defended with vigor. I've never said Mario isn't a good player. I've argued that he is expendable and overpaid. Now that the defense is playing great without him for an extended period of time, it should be obvious that is true. I would rather him be healthy and playing. However, he's not and this is information the front office is not missing, even if the fans are.

Maddict5
11-13-2011, 06:30 AM
It is reality. People on this board continue to act as though Mario Williams is central to the success and failure of the defense while diminishing the impact/ability of other players (in this case: Barwin, Nolan, McCain, Jamison). Well, these are the guys that are making history for the Texans. Perhaps they don't have the amazing physical skills of Mario but why does that make them less valuable?

Perhaps the fact that I don't play Madden football has something to do with our differences in perception. Perhaps I care less about style than some of you. I'm not sure what it is. I find it strange that the underdogs on this team are slow to be embraced while the underachievers are defended with vigor. I've never said Mario isn't a good player. I've argued that he is expendable and overpaid. Now that the defense is playing great without him for an extended period of time, it should be obvious that is true. I would rather him be healthy and playing. However, he's not and this is information the front office is not missing, even if the fans are.

since you're not just hating on mario (apparently..although i think every1 sees your agenda), i guess you feel the exact same way about aj?

we're getting the job done without him too so hes expendable & overpaid right? :rolleyes:

anybody with a clue can see the pass rush has dipped since mario's been on ir the same way the passing game has dipped without aj. still winning and playing well on both sides of the ball thanks to the overall talent & coaching on both sides (plus the relative suckitude of the teams we've played in that period).

dont think we're not going to miss our elite players in big games against great opposition though

hradhak
11-13-2011, 08:37 AM
I just wanted to point out that we actually have a fairly good history with the draft these last few years. 2007 was mediocre, but 2008 and 2010 were fairly solid.

2007 only Jacoby is still playing
2008 Duane Brown - good pick, Schaub (in trade), Chris Meyers (in trade)
2010 KJ (he plays, yet to be seen if he's worth a #1). Ben Tate (solid pick). Earl Mitchell (solid backup). Darryl Sharpton (significant minutes with Demeco catching up). McManis solid nickel coverage

Seems to me like we've just been drafting well except for 2008 when we acquired players through trade with draft picks.

Rick Smith has taken a lot of crap on this board, but I think he's assembled a very steady pool of talent to come in and play for us. We're getting significant contributions from several of our late and undrafted picks.

Our 2006 and 2009 draft classes were definitely the best years, but 2010 may turn out to be a very good one as well depending on how KJ pans out

dalemurphy
11-13-2011, 09:03 AM
I just wanted to point out that we actually have a fairly good history with the draft these last few years. 2007 was mediocre, but 2008 and 2010 were fairly solid.

2007 only Jacoby is still playing
2008 Duane Brown - good pick, Schaub (in trade), Chris Meyers (in trade)
2010 KJ (he plays, yet to be seen if he's worth a #1). Ben Tate (solid pick). Earl Mitchell (solid backup). Darryl Sharpton (significant minutes with Demeco catching up). McManis solid nickel coverage

Seems to me like we've just been drafting well except for 2008 when we acquired players through trade with draft picks.

Rick Smith has taken a lot of crap on this board, but I think he's assembled a very steady pool of talent to come in and play for us. We're getting significant contributions from several of our late and undrafted picks.

Our 2006 and 2009 draft classes were definitely the best years, but 2010 may turn out to be a very good one as well depending on how KJ pans out


You are right. 2007 was a dog but the rest of them look pretty good. Regarding Rick Smith, if you believe the story that he was urging Gary Kubiak to go through an interview process for D.C after Richard Smith was fired but Kubiak declined, then Rick Smith looks even better. Amazing how much better his players look with good coaching!

dalemurphy
11-13-2011, 09:10 AM
since you're not just hating on mario (apparently..although i think every1 sees your agenda), i guess you feel the exact same way about aj?

we're getting the job done without him too so hes expendable & overpaid right? :rolleyes:

anybody with a clue can see the pass rush has dipped since mario's been on ir the same way the passing game has dipped without aj. still winning and playing well on both sides of the ball thanks to the overall talent & coaching on both sides (plus the relative suckitude of the teams we've played in that period).

dont think we're not going to miss our elite players in big games against great opposition though

Considering the fact that AJ is signed for the next 6 years, I think, it is a moot point. That decision has already been made. As I have said over and over, I wish Mario was healthy. That is preferable. I'm talking about how to use our limited resources next year. AJ is an elite player. Mario is not elite. I see that our offense has had to make many more modifications without A.J. and has had to sacrifice certain things in order to make things work. I do not think we can beat good teams with any consistency without AJ. I do believe we can without Mario.

Without Mario, the Texans have tied a record held by the 1978 Steelers, 1985 Bears, and a few others allowing 175 yards (i think) or less to three consecutive teams. Of all the defenses to ever step on an NFL field, the Texans can own this record if they do it again today. Funny that you talk about the defense's struggle over that period of time. Who has an agenda?

In this thread, I was arguing the original point: the 2009 draft class is the predominate reason for this season's success. Others argued that 2006 is easily the main reason. I then listed all the players making a difference on the team and particularly the defense. People resonded: Mario Williams!... I said, he's not doing much right now but these guys are:

Connor Barwin
Glover Quin
Brice McCain
Troy Nolan
Tim Jamison

Then, a Mario fan began insulting these players. All the while, these players will be on the field (without Mario) with a chance to break an NFL record for defensive dominance over a period of 4 weeks.

thunderkyss
11-13-2011, 09:32 AM
I've argued that he is expendable and overpaid. Now that the defense is playing great without him for an extended period of time, it should be obvious that is true. I would rather him be healthy and playing. However, he's not and this is information the front office is not missing, even if the fans are.

Right now, it is my perception that we are blitzing more without Mario in order to generate pressure. I know some people don't care...... as long as we are generating pressure.

If I'm Wade, there are some teams, that I wouldn't mind blitzing 100% of the time. Generally because those teams are so bad offensively it would give me an opportunity to try some of my packages without being in any danger of jeopardizing the game. The teams we've played this year have been those teams. The teams we play in the play-offs, won't (except maybe Sanchez if we can keep him in the pocket).

But as a defensive coordinator, I'd like to keep my blitzing percentage down as low as possible.

Same as if I were an offensive coordinator. It's would be nice if my offense has given up less sacks than any other team in the league. But if I'm in max protect for an overwhelming majority of the time, I weaken my offense in another area to pay for that protection. Sooner or later, it will be time to pay the piper.

Lucky
11-13-2011, 09:49 AM
That is preferable. I'm talking about how to use our limited resources next year.
Do you realize that with a new contract, Mario will have a lower cap number next year than he carried this year? And you don't even know what the cap will be next year.

Teams trying to win don't trade their best players in the prime of their career for draft picks. This isn't MLB, where a team stocks up on prospects. The last thing the Texans need to do now is get younger. Williams injury isn't career threatening. Had it been a knee, they may be wise not to commit big money. The injury is not an issue.

Nothing suggest the Texans will not re-sign Mario. And doing so should not prohibit the Texans from working other deals that need to be made. Many suggest that a draft class can't be judged for 3 years. I would say, look who is still there after 5 years (when a player enters his prime). Mario, DeMeco, Winston, Daniels. Walters in a draft pick trade. 2006 is still the gold standard of Texans drafts.

thunderkyss
11-13-2011, 09:59 AM
I would say, look who is still there after 5 years (when a player enters his prime). Mario, DeMeco, Winston, Daniels. Walters in a draft pick trade. 2006 is still the gold standard of Texans drafts.

Sounds like Veteran leadership... something we've been waiting for that group to provide.

I'd like to know where this 2009 draft class would be without those guys on this team.

Add Antonio Smith to the Veteran leadership as well.

I've been (& probably still am) on Rick Smith watch. The drafts have been nice, but his FA record still looks spotty. Chris Myers, Antonio Smith, Wade Smith, Jonathan Joseph..... in only five years..... meh.... he needs to keep it up.

Matt Schaub, Mike Brisiel, Arian Foster, Vonta Leach, Shuan Cody, Lawrence Vickers, Joel Dressen...... maybe I'm being too hard on the guy.

bo orlando
11-13-2011, 12:55 PM
Without Mario, the Texans have tied a record held by the 1978 Steelers, 1985 Bears, and a few others allowing 175 yards (i think) or less to three consecutive teams. Of all the defenses to ever step on an NFL field, the Texans can own this record if they do it again today. Funny that you talk about the defense's struggle over that period of time. Who has an agenda?

In this thread, I was arguing the original point: the 2009 draft class is the predominate reason for this season's success. Others argued that 2006 is easily the main reason. I then listed all the players making a difference on the team and particularly the defense. People resonded: Mario Williams!... I said, he's not doing much right now but these guys are:

Connor Barwin
Glover Quin
Brice McCain
Troy Nolan
Tim Jamison

Then, a Mario fan began insulting these players. All the while, these players will be on the field (without Mario) with a chance to break an NFL record for defensive dominance over a period of 4 weeks.

Those players are on the field BECAUSE they're healthy. They're not on the field because they're the best options at their positions (except maybe Quin). Yeah, they're playing hard and are providing essential depth in a somewhat injury-plagued year, but don't confuse them for future hall of famers or even pro bowlers. They are also, after all, the same guys who contributed to one of the worst defenses in history just a year ago.

steelbtexan
11-13-2011, 02:42 PM
I have no problem with signing MW to a long term deal. As long as Foster/Myers get reupped and their is enough cap $$$$ to extend Schaub. Along with signing a WR2 that has proven production in FA.

What humors me is the fans that say the W/L record isn't due to the schedule. Will say the only reason the defense is playing well is because of the crap offenses they've been playing. Apparently you can have it both ways if your a MW fan.

Mr teX
11-13-2011, 04:15 PM
why is anyone even entertaining this.

2006 class.....3, soon to be 4 pro bowlers.

The 2009 class....mostly depth guys some of whom wouldn't even be playing if not for injuries...Troy Nolan.

This isn't a debate its the 2006 draft.

dalemurphy
11-13-2011, 05:16 PM
Those players are on the field BECAUSE they're healthy. They're not on the field because they're the best options at their positions (except maybe Quin). Yeah, they're playing hard and are providing essential depth in a somewhat injury-plagued year, but don't confuse them for future hall of famers or even pro bowlers. They are also, after all, the same guys who contributed to one of the worst defenses in history just a year ago.

So did Mario!

dalemurphy
11-13-2011, 05:18 PM
why is anyone even entertaining this.

2006 class.....3, soon to be 4 pro bowlers.

The 2009 class....mostly depth guys some of whom wouldn't even be playing if not for injuries...Troy Nolan.

This isn't a debate its the 2006 draft.

Demeco and Mario aren't probowlers this year... OD? maybe.

Cushing- Allpro
AFoster- Allpro

Barwin
Quin
Casey
McCain... are all better than the majority of starters at their position... yes, I know McCain is a nickel corner, but he's on the field the majority of time

ObsiWan
11-13-2011, 05:19 PM
I have no problem with signing MW to a long term deal. As long as Foster/Myers get reupped and their is enough cap $$$$ to extend Schaub. Along with signing a WR2 that has proven production in FA.

What humors me is the fans that say the W/L record isn't due to the schedule. Will say the only reason the defense is playing well is because of the crap offenses they've been playing. Apparently you can have it both ways if your a MW fan.

Soooo you're saying hiring Wade was a waste money because, given the schedule, we'd have been this good whether we changed defensive coordinators or not...??

Just asking for clarification.

steelbtexan
11-13-2011, 05:47 PM
Soooo you're saying hiring Wade was a waste money because, given the schedule, we'd have been this good whether we changed defensive coordinators or not...??

Just asking for clarification.

Come on man, you know better than this. Wade's draft + his awsome ability to put player in a position to succeed is the reason for this amazing defensive turnaround. He** he's even made an adequate CB out of KJ. LOL

I was just pointing out the double standard in relation to MW/schedule vs W/L in relation to the schedule.

BTW if the team keeps improving (I'm looking forward to the Atl game) they can make a deep playoff run. (Didn't think I would be saying that this yr.) They appear to groing in confidence. They will be dangerous come playoff time.

Mr teX
11-13-2011, 05:58 PM
Demeco and Mario aren't probowlers this year... OD? maybe.

Cushing- Allpro
AFoster- Allpro

Barwin
Quin
Casey
McCain... are all better than the majority of starters at their position... yes, I know McCain is a nickel corner, but he's on the field the majority of time



In your haste to downplay any and everything that casts MW in a favorable light you're attempting to make long term predictions based on short term results. Way take a snapshot.

What if Cush & Arian get hurt & are out for the season? Are they still all pro in 2011 then (knocks on wood)?

What we know is that the 2006 class has 4 players that are unquestionably among the best at their positions..it has been born out over the length of their careers.

The 2009 class has 2 guys that are. But really, How in the hell can you assert that Quinn is among the best at his position when he's in the 1st year of playing his position? At most He's been solid & nothing more. & are you really saying that a nickel cb is better than guys who start? Ummm...... If he was that good.......don't you think he'd be starting here? Your statement doesn't make any sense.

dalemurphy
11-13-2011, 06:00 PM
In your haste to downplay any and everything that casts MW in a favorable light you're attempting to make long term predictions based on short term results. Way take a snapshot.

What if Cush & Arian get hurt & are out for the season? Are they still all pro in 2011 then (knocks on wood)?

What we know is that the 2006 class has 4 players that are unquestionably among the best at their positions..it has been born out over the length of their careers.

The 2009 class has 2 guys that are. But really, How in the hell can you assert that Quinn & McCain are among the best at their positions when 1 is in his 1st year playing in his position and the other isn't even good enough to crack the starting line-up on his own team?

by watching football on Sundays in 2011!

Mr teX
11-13-2011, 06:05 PM
by watching football on Sundays in 2011!

you need to watch more then b/c you clearly don't know what you're looking at.

dalemurphy
11-14-2011, 04:09 AM
you need to watch more then b/c you clearly don't know what you're looking at.

I watched some more: I still liked what I saw from Barwin, Quin, McCain and company. Call me crazy.

ObsiWan
11-14-2011, 05:06 AM
I watched some more: I still liked what I saw from Barwin, Quin, McCain and company. Call me crazy.

Crazy? No. But you do have an anti-Mario agenda. And that seems to now include tearing down not only him but now his whole '06 draft class.

We're not crazy either. I don't know about the rest of them, but on this subject, I ain't buying that snake oil you're peddling.

dalemurphy
11-14-2011, 06:14 AM
Crazy? No. But you do have an anti-Mario agenda. And that seems to now include tearing down not only him but now his whole '06 draft class.

We're not crazy either. I don't know about the rest of them, but on this subject, I ain't buying that snake oil you're peddling.

You get this from me celebrating the play of Barwin, Quin, and McCain today?

Just so you know, I'm on record saying the 2009 draft will go down as one of the NFL's all time greatest. Now, perhaps that is inaccurate or rose-colored... we'll see. But, nothing about my celebration of that draft class is anti-2006, which was an excellent draft. Mario was a great first pick. I liked it then and I like it now. However, due to our transition to Wade's 3-4, Mario's injury problems, our cap situation, and what he will likely demand in the open market, the Texans will be wise to let him go. That's all.