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BSofA04
11-06-2011, 06:43 PM
Give the man some props for stepping in and playing at a high level.

4 starts, 4 sacks. One away from the team lead. Brooks is putting together a pretty solid season since he was thrown into the fire. What more can you ask from a 2nd round rookie?

GP
11-06-2011, 06:56 PM
This is beginning to beg the question, the old chicken and egg story:

Is it the player or the coordinator?

Because supposedly we were DOOMED when Mario Williams got hurt andis out for the year................

I was saying back in the preseason that IF Wade Phillips is who we historically know him to be (a builder of good defenses) and IF he is given some goods to work with here, then Mario Williams or no Mario Williams we should see a good defense this year.

Let's also remember that we're talking about the Browns here. Let's see what happens against a good passing team like the Bengals. Anybody else watching this Bengals-Titans game right now? Dude, the Bengals are no joke. Dalton is making great decisions all game long. His accuracy is top notch. The passing plays are down-the-field and effective.

Jeff Triplett's bunch is reff'ing this game and they are calling a penalty on every other play. Isn't this bunch the most penalizing crew out there? It's incredible. Every other play there is holding or a personal foul or some such.

stingray
11-06-2011, 07:01 PM
This is beginning to beg the question, the old chicken and egg story:

Is it the player or the coordinator?

Because supposedly we were DOOMED when Mario Williams got hurt andis out for the year................

I was saying back in the preseason that IF Wade Phillips is who we historically know him to be (a builder of good defenses) and IF he is given some goods to work with here, then Mario Williams or no Mario Williams we should see a good defense this year.

Let's also remember that we're talking about the Browns here. Let's see what happens against a good passing team like the Bengals. Anybody else watching this Bengals-Titans game right now? Dude, the Bengals are no joke. Dalton is making great decisions all game long. His accuracy is top notch. The passing plays are down-the-field and effective.

Jeff Triplett's bunch is reff'ing this game and they are calling a penalty on every other play. Isn't this bunch the most penalizing crew out there? It's incredible. Every other play there is holding or a personal foul or some such.

The question will be answered once we face elite QB's in the playoffs.

thunderkyss
11-06-2011, 07:06 PM
The question will be answered once we face elite QB's in the playoffs.

Brooks is growing into his role. Two sacks against any NFL team is a milestone.

TheMatrix31
11-06-2011, 07:08 PM
He's been nothing short of bad ass.

VTexan
11-06-2011, 07:22 PM
Still young and learning. Ran by Colt a couple of times or he could have more sacks. Also got fooled by a screen play twice. But he has a great motor and is very fast... Just needs to stop using his momentum against himself.

Scooter
11-06-2011, 07:28 PM
i think he is what he is. a solid rookie OLB in an ideal system with great play around him and extremely little attention from opposing offenses. the same knocks applied to mario beating tightends (he's supposed to make the play) need to be applied to unblocked reed (he's supposed to make the play). i dont mean to diminish what he's done, because the results are there, but he's got plenty of work to do. i think he'll only get better, but i'm hesitant to heap on too much praise.

Yankee_In_TX
11-06-2011, 07:32 PM
Well, I always knew he could do it but if he can really keep it up against top class O-lines. He's really going to give Mario something to think about in the offseason.

Fixed it for you.

stingray
11-06-2011, 07:39 PM
Brooks is growing into his role. Two sacks against any NFL team is a milestone.

Not saying he isn't.. Just saying and asking how he will perform in important games. Hopefully he will perform great.

cdain1
11-06-2011, 07:42 PM
i think he is what he is. a solid rookie OLB in an ideal system with great play around him and extremely little attention from opposing offenses. the same knocks applied to mario beating tightends (he's supposed to make the play) need to be applied to unblocked reed (he's supposed to make the play). i dont mean to diminish what he's done, because the results are there, but he's got plenty of work to do. i think he'll only get better, but i'm hesitant to heap on too much praise.

http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=1063867&t=o (http://gifsoup.com/view/1063867/shut-the-****-up.html)

Scooter
11-06-2011, 07:58 PM
spend most of your time on the official forum?

Maddict5
11-06-2011, 07:58 PM
playing decent for a rook but lets not kid ourselves.. on alot of his impact plays/sacks, hes been unblocked.. hes missed a couple other unblocked ones too

good start to his career though

Jackie Chiles
11-06-2011, 08:02 PM
I know some people are going to want to turn this into another Brooks vs. Mario question but with the way hes playing right now I would love to see them on the field starting together. Reed has that natural pass rush instinct and edge speed for the position. Barwin is playing some excellent football as well but Reed is really killing it. Man, I love watching our defense.

BSofA04
11-06-2011, 08:26 PM
I'm not going to over-praise the man, I'm just giving him props for being an impact player on a damn good defense. That's right, I said it, a damn good defense.

I agree with Scooter and others here that he needs work, but the tools/motor are there for a solid OLB in our system. Still a work in progress, but the man has a chance to break the all-time rookie sack record (5.5...pathetic but that's another bitching session) without starting 25% of the season.

Cush. Captain Meco. Connor. Reed. Not a bad LB group!

BSofA04
11-06-2011, 08:33 PM
I was saying back in the preseason that IF Wade Phillips is who we historically know him to be (a builder of good defenses) and IF he is given some goods to work with here, then Mario Williams or no Mario Williams we should see a good defense this year.
Props for calling this. It's clear to me that Wade is a miracle worker.

Scooter
11-06-2011, 08:37 PM
I'm not going to over-praise the man, I'm just giving him props for being an impact player on a damn good defense. That's right, I said it, a damn good defense.

I agree with Scooter and others here that he needs work, but the tools/motor are there for a solid OLB in our system. Still a work in progress, but the man has a chance to break the all-time rookie sack record (5.5...pathetic but that's another bitching session) without starting 25% of the season.

Cush. Captain Meco. Connor. Reed. Not a bad LB group!

couldnt agree more, especially about the motor. he's got strong moves and is a 60 minute worker, reed has a ton of upside especially in this system. wade has turned futility into a top defense with effort - leaning on guys like reed, cushing, watt, manning, smith - hustle never give up types. reed isnt a major pass rusher yet though and has some work to do to be a more complete linebacker. he may become one, but right now he's taking advantage of being an afterthought for offenses. i hate that i sound like i'm knocking the guy, because like i said the results are there and that's all that matters.

and you might want to change it to Meco and Captain Cush.

Yankee_In_TX
11-06-2011, 08:41 PM
I know some people are going to want to turn this into another Brooks vs. Mario question but with the way hes playing right now I would love to see them on the field starting together.

Anyone who wants Brooks instead of Mario is silly. BUT, it comes down to what will Mario's contract demands be?

Brooks has proven and can start and play well. He has issues, which hopefully can improve with experience and coaching.

Kimmy
11-06-2011, 08:42 PM
I don't think we'll see Mario in a Texans uniform next year.

Scooter
11-06-2011, 08:53 PM
I don't think we'll see Mario in a Texans uniform next year.

i agreed with this before the trade deadline. we absolutely cant let that much talent leave without compensation though ... possibly with a franchise and trade? my guess is we give mario and foster their long term deals at the expense of a familiar name or two.

Rey
11-06-2011, 08:55 PM
Brooks still struggles to get off blocks when linemen get their hands on him.

Carr Bombed
11-06-2011, 09:10 PM
LMAO...the same posters who are trying to downplay Brooks are the same posters who go out of their way to praise whatever Mario Williams does, acted like he was the be all end all of this defense, and are the same posters who said we'd be screwed when he went out. Things are getting WAY too predictable around here.

Brooks Reed doesn't just have the skills/tools to be a solid OLBer in this defense...he has the skills to be a STAR in this defense. He's ALREADY above a "solid OLBer" in this system and he'll only continue to improve from here on out.

I also find it funny that some people are even going as far to excuse some of his production to "being unblocked"...yet you didn't hear much when Mario was isolated against Dallas Clark. It's the same system..Wade does a great job at getting his defenders the most favorable match ups. He did it with Mario and now he's doing it with Brooks.

Brooks Reed is a legit playmaker, how can you call a rook who's averaging a sack a start anything other than a legit playmaker? Face it, we hit gold in the second round, we haven't skipped a beat without Mario Williams (heck, we've actually improved in run defense), and Reed should've went MUCH higher in the draft. If he was able to start since day 1, we could be talking about a DROY candidate here.

GP
11-06-2011, 09:15 PM
Props for calling this. It's clear to me that Wade is a miracle worker.

Yeah, well...it came at the cost of being labeled a Mario hater.

I'll tell you guys what I "hate." I hate anything that isn't what's best for the Texans. I have no favorite Texans players; in my eyes they ALL row the boat or they ALL stand dead in the water.

My only gripe about Mario is the situation with his upcoming new contract, and what that means for the TEAM as a whole. Because I'm in favor of spreading the love and making sure we are always able to field the best t-e-a-m we can, not getting caught up in hamstringing ourselves (pardon the expression) with superstar contracts that box us in.

Carr Bombed
11-06-2011, 09:19 PM
Yeah, well...it came at the cost of being labeled a Mario hater.

I'll tell you guys what I "hate." I hate anything that isn't what's best for the Texans. I have no favorite Texans players; in my eyes they ALL row the boat or they ALL stand dead in the water.

My only gripe about Mario is the situation with his upcoming new contract, and what that means for the TEAM as a whole. Because I'm in favor of spreading the love and making sure we are always able to field the best t-e-a-m we can, not getting caught up in hamstringing ourselves (pardon the expression) with superstar contracts that box us in.

You and me both brother. :rolleyes:


You know what I have to say to those people... We aren't "Mario haters", they're overall "team haters". They have to knock everyone on the team down (Antonio Smith anyone) in order to elevate "their guy" even higher. They can't give any props when it's truly due to other players, if it might make their "guy" look less significant.

rickyb
11-06-2011, 09:44 PM
Give the man some props for stepping in and playing at a high level.

4 starts, 4 sacks. One away from the team lead. Brooks is putting together a pretty solid season since he was thrown into the fire. What more can you ask from a 2nd round rookie?

I was at a happy hour in Austin, watching the 2011 NFL Draft, and as the Texans' 2nd round pick (the 1st one) approached, I leaned over to my buddy and said, "If Brooks Reed is still on the board, we should grab that guy and not think twice." I exploded when the pick was announced. Excited then, and still excited. This linebacking core of ours is muy synergistic, animalistic, pugilistic. Me likey.

Scooter
11-06-2011, 09:51 PM
I also find it funny that some people are even going as far to excuse some of his production to "being unblocked"...yet you didn't hear much when Mario was isolated against Dallas Clark. It's the same system..Wade does a great job at getting his defenders the most favorable match ups. He did it with Mario and now he's doing it with Brooks.

step back and see the comparison. mario is degraded for beating a tightend (you're selectively ignoring how much was said). reed is degraded for going unblocked. reed isnt commanding a tightend motioning to his side. he doesnt have a back doubling protection. reed is a rookie going relatively unnoticed by the offense and doing his job when the opportunity provides itsself - very commendable. let's not make it out to say he's dominating the block and beating double teams. he's missed his share of lane assignments and is heavily reliant on others to free him up where as mario helps draw attention away from others while still producing all-pro results. to compare the two while watching the games is asinine. brooks has been great for a rookie, but as someone hoping mario would be traded, reed is miles away from being in mario's territory.

my record makes me safe from being lumped into "mario hater" or "mario fan".

Maddict5
11-06-2011, 09:55 PM
LMAO...the same posters who are trying to downplay Brooks are the same posters who go out of their way to praise whatever Mario Williams does, acted like he was the be all end all of this defense, and are the same posters who said we'd be screwed when he went out. Things are getting WAY too predictable around here.

Brooks Reed doesn't just have the skills/tools to be a solid OLBer in this defense...he has the skills to be a STAR in this defense. He's ALREADY above a "solid OLBer" in this system and he'll only continue to improve from here on out.

I also find it funny that some people are even going as far to excuse some of his production to "being unblocked"...yet you didn't hear much when Mario was isolated against Dallas Clark. It's the same system..Wade does a great job at getting his defenders the most favorable match ups. He did it with Mario and now he's doing it with Brooks.

Brooks Reed is a legit playmaker, how can you call a rook who's averaging a sack a start anything other than a legit playmaker? Face it, we hit gold in the second round, we haven't skipped a beat without Mario Williams (heck, we've actually improved in run defense), and Reed should've went MUCH higher in the draft. If he was able to start since day 1, we could be talking about a DROY candidate here.

im not going to get into it since we're obviously seeing two completely different things. i have no agenda in a brooks reed/mario debate. like you, i just want the best players out there to make our team as good as possible.

like i said earlier, reed is doing well for a rookie but imo he hasnt shown much to be a star on this defence. ya mario had the odd isolation on clark but hes beaten plenty of tackles and double teams too. reed hasnt shown that much. cushing is obviously the star of this D and the obv talent+scheme= star (btw remember a couple wks back when you told me that to compare '11 cush to '09 cush was laughable). :fingergun:

brooks might be a star down the road but he hasnt been so far and more than likely wont be for another yr or 2 at the earliest

stingray
11-06-2011, 09:56 PM
LMAO...the same posters who are trying to downplay Brooks are the same posters who go out of their way to praise whatever Mario Williams does, acted like he was the be all end all of this defense, and are the same posters who said we'd be screwed when he went out. Things are getting WAY too predictable around here.

Brooks Reed doesn't just have the skills/tools to be a solid OLBer in this defense...he has the skills to be a STAR in this defense. He's ALREADY above a "solid OLBer" in this system and he'll only continue to improve from here on out.

I also find it funny that some people are even going as far to excuse some of his production to "being unblocked"...yet you didn't hear much when Mario was isolated against Dallas Clark. It's the same system..Wade does a great job at getting his defenders the most favorable match ups. He did it with Mario and now he's doing it with Brooks.

Brooks Reed is a legit playmaker, how can you call a rook who's averaging a sack a start anything other than a legit playmaker? Face it, we hit gold in the second round, we haven't skipped a beat without Mario Williams (heck, we've actually improved in run defense), and Reed should've went MUCH higher in the draft. If he was able to start since day 1, we could be talking about a DROY candidate here.

Chill dude.. Amobi Okoye had four sacks in his first four starts.

The Cush
11-06-2011, 09:57 PM
I also find it funny that some people are even going as far to excuse some of his production to "being unblocked"...yet you didn't hear much when Mario was isolated against Dallas Clark. It's the same system..Wade does a great job at getting his defenders the most favorable match ups. He did it with Mario and now he's doing it with Brooks.


That was actually dalemurphy's favorite argument, Mario only beats TE's and patchwork O-lines. He kept harping on that and the fact that Mario isn't elite in coverage as to why he is such an underachiver

Maddict5
11-06-2011, 09:59 PM
Chill dude.. Amobi Okoye had four sacks in his first four starts.

:ohsnap:

rep for saying in 10 words what i took me 3 paragraphs to try to say

thunderkyss
11-06-2011, 10:04 PM
step back and see the comparison. mario is degraded for beating a tightend (you're selectively ignoring how much was said). reed is degraded for going unblocked. reed isnt commanding a tightend motioning to his side. he doesnt have a back doubling protection. reed is a rookie going relatively unnoticed by the offense and doing his job when the opportunity provides itsself - very commendable. let's not make it out to say he's dominating the block and beating double teams. he's missed his share of lane assignments and is heavily reliant on others to free him up where as mario helps draw attention away from others while still producing all-pro results. to compare the two while watching the games is asinine. brooks has been great for a rookie, but as someone hoping mario would be traded, reed is miles away from being in mario's territory.

my record makes me safe from being lumped into "mario hater" or "mario fan".

If anything, I can see bringing Mario back & bumping Connor further down the depth chart.......... if Brooks keeps it up.

Scooter
11-06-2011, 10:10 PM
If anything, I can see bringing Mario back & bumping Connor further down the depth chart.......... if Brooks keeps it up.

yup yup. i like the mix of mario and reed, with connor backing up both.

JimBaker488
11-06-2011, 10:18 PM
i agreed with this before the trade deadline. we absolutely cant let that much talent leave without compensation though ... possibly with a franchise and trade? my guess is we give mario and foster their long term deals at the expense of a familiar name or two.
But if he's franchised isn't that then like 20M guaranteed ? That would be 1/6 or 1/7 of our entire cap wouldn't it ?

dream_team
11-06-2011, 10:24 PM
Big props to Brooks for creating pressure and getting some sacks! He's really filling in well for one of the league's best, especially for only being a rookie.

Now getting that out of the way... the guy, in my eyes, is still raw. He's beating people by pure speed. But if an OL gets their hands on him, I haven't seen him have the ability to shed the block. Right now, he's sorta a one-trick pony when it comes to rushing the passer.

But I'm really rooting for the guy to develop his rush moves. He needs to learn how to beat blocks in order to bring pressure and create havoc on every play. He needs to draw the protection's attention. Once he can do this, then we can start talking about the possibility of not bringing Mario back next season.

Scooter
11-06-2011, 10:25 PM
But if he's franchised isn't that then like 20M guaranteed ? That would be 1/6 or 1/7 of our entire cap wouldn't it ?

that's why i'm expecting him to return with a more cap friendly long term deal. if we were to let him go i'd assume we'd have some certainty of his trade options before making any tags.

dalemurphy
11-06-2011, 11:03 PM
That was actually dalemurphy's favorite argument, Mario only beats TE's and patchwork O-lines. He kept harping on that and the fact that Mario isn't elite in coverage as to why he is such an underachiver

Howdy!

Mario going away after this season doesn't have anything to do with underachieving... He simply isn't a fit for a 3-4 OLB... He's a gifted player and Wade used him successfully. However, as is evidenced by Reed's production, we don't need a $12 million man in that position. Mario could be a very good to great LDE in a 4-3 for someone. I can't see us outbidding a team like that. I'll wish him well, though. Give me Lamar Woodley if we decide to spend money at OLB this off-season.

Rey
11-06-2011, 11:24 PM
Trading Mario doesn't make us a better team.

To me, Mario is capable of being to the defense what Andre is to the offense. Maybe not exactly as great as dre but I think his presence puts us over the top and makes the unit that much better.

Offense has still put up points in dre's absence but I don't think you trade Andre because other receivers/te's step up and play well. Players as physically gifted as Mario and dre don't grow on trees.

Reed has been getting better and should continue to, but he is no Mario.

Carr Bombed
11-07-2011, 01:30 AM
Chill dude.. Amobi Okoye had four sacks in his first four starts.

LOL... Does Brooks Reed remotely look anything like Amobi Okoye? :rolleyes:

Carr Bombed
11-07-2011, 01:35 AM
Trading Mario doesn't make us a better team.

To me, Mario is capable of being to the defense what Andre is to the offense. Maybe not exactly as great as dre but I think his presence puts us over the top and makes the unit that much better.

Offense has still put up points in dre's absence but I don't think you trade Andre because other receivers/te's step up and play well. Players as physically gifted as Mario and dre don't grow on trees.

Reed has been getting better and should continue to, but he is no Mario.

If it frees up a crap load of cap space it does INDEED make us a better team. We can fill holes elsewhere and resign players like Arian Foster, so moving on without Mario can indeed make us a better team.

thunderkyss
11-07-2011, 01:36 AM
lol... Does brooks reed remotely look anything like amobi okoye? :rolleyes:
1 + 1 = 2

dream_team
11-07-2011, 01:57 AM
If it frees up a crap load of cap space it does INDEED make us a better team. We can fill holes elsewhere and resign players like Arian Foster, so moving on without Mario can indeed make us a better team.

Obviously, since you don't value Mario very much, this make alot of sense to you. To us that highly value him, we don't think getting rid of him will make us better.

You can make the same argument about Foster since Tate is playing so well. I'm surprised people aren't suggesting we trade or do not re-sign Foster.

ADTpaul
11-07-2011, 02:03 AM
Reed has exceled in his rookie season so far. He has given quick contributions with 4 sacks, bunch of QB hits, and hurries! I would say he has been an awesome selection for a second round drafted player. J.J. Watts looks good as well n got a fumble recover early.

ADTpaul
11-07-2011, 02:07 AM
Obviously, since you don't value Mario very much, this make alot of sense to you. To us that highly value him, we don't think getting rid of him will make us better.

You can make the same argument about Foster since Tate is playing so well. I'm surprised people aren't suggesting we trade or do not re-sign Foster.

You must be crazy not to resign Foster! Pay the man when hes done well unlike guys named Chris Johnson and Peyton Hillis. Complain and then not perform well on the field. Praise Foster for just playing hard and not whinning. Pay him Rick lol

welsh texan
11-07-2011, 04:24 AM
I don't think when the FO look at this situation with Mario they are thinking so black and white about either re-signing him or letting him go.

I think they will try to keep him and offer him what they feel he's worth to the team.

I think the emergence of Brooks Reed probably knocks a couple of million $ per year off Mario's value to this team, but wouldn't think for a second that they aren't going to make him an offer and for good money too.

Demarcus Ware is earning around $13M a year for the Cowboys, Mario is down for $13.8M. That is a lot against the cap, but then again the guy was beasting it before he went down.

I also somewhat cautiously await the rookie wall for JJ Watt and Brooks Reed, especially if we go deep in the playoffs. Amobi Okoye hit the rookie wall and never recovered as I remember so there is a note of caution to anyone suddenly writing Mario off.

mussop
11-07-2011, 07:04 AM
you and me both brother. :rolleyes:


You know what i have to say to those people... We aren't "mario haters", they're overall "team haters". They have to knock everyone on the team down (antonio smith anyone) in order to elevate "their guy" even higher. They can't give any props when it's truly due to other players, if it might make their "guy" look less significant.

amen!!!!!

TexanBacker93
11-07-2011, 07:18 AM
Give the man some props for stepping in and playing at a high level.

4 starts, 4 sacks. One away from the team lead. Brooks is putting together a pretty solid season since he was thrown into the fire. What more can you ask from a 2nd round rookie?

How is he with a smoker?

TexanBacker93
11-07-2011, 07:21 AM
Anyone who wants Brooks instead of Mario is silly. BUT, it comes down to what will Mario's contract demands be?

Brooks has proven and can start and play well. He has issues, which hopefully can improve with experience and coaching.

I think, regardless of his demands, we keep Mario next year. If the demands are such that the team finds it hard to keep Mario and Foster then you slap that franchise tag on Mario and see what happens. There will be a way to keep both of them. Reed, Barwin, and Mario makes for a great rotation.

Rey
11-07-2011, 07:39 AM
If it frees up a crap load of cap space it does INDEED make us a better team. We can fill holes elsewhere and resign players like Arian Foster, so moving on without Mario can indeed make us a better team.

I think we will be able to sign foster and Mario. I can't remember the last time a team let someone of mario's caliber walk because they couldn't afford him. That's not going to happen. Someone will restructure, cap moves will be made, he will be signed IMO.

As far as filling other holes. . .???

What gaping holes are you looking to fill in free agency that we can't attempt to fill in the draft?

Brooks reed, Mario, and barwin in a healthy rotation makes me excited.

mussop
11-07-2011, 07:44 AM
I think we will be able to sign foster and Mario. I can't remember the last time a team let someone of mario's caliber walk because they couldn't afford him. That's not going to happen. Someone will restructure, cap moves will be made, he will be signed IMO.

As far as filling other holes. . .???

What gaping holes are you looking to fill in free agency that we can't attempt to fill in the draft?

Mario makes me excited.

there I fixed it for you. :fingergun:

thunderkyss
11-07-2011, 07:58 AM
I think, regardless of his demands, we keep Mario next year. If the demands are such that the team finds it hard to keep Mario and Foster then you slap that franchise tag on Mario and see what happens. There will be a way to keep both of them. Reed, Barwin, and Mario makes for a great rotation.

The franshise tag, imo, is the wrong way to go. If the tag is $16 million that will mean his cap number will be $16 million. We need to sign him to a long term contract give him $16 million + guaranteed where we can pro-rate that over several years.

A creative GM can get it done, sign Foster, & bring in whatever FA we'll need.

But it's getting harder & harder to identify where our needs are, meaning we'll probably be looking to fill areas of depth.

IDEXAN
11-07-2011, 08:24 AM
I'm starting to think that Clay Matthews and not Brooks Reed is the great impersonator ? Matthews had one good season and right now in his third year in the league and has only 3 sacks, while Reed has 4 even though he's played far less in 2011 than the packers LB.

SAMURAITEXAN
11-07-2011, 08:24 AM
The franshise tag, imo, is the wrong way to go. If the tag is $16 million that will mean his cap number will be $16 million. We need to sign him to a long term contract give him $16 million + guaranteed where we can pro-rate that over several years.

A creative GM can get it done, sign Foster, & bring in whatever FA we'll need.

But it's getting harder & harder to identify where our needs are, meaning we'll probably be looking to fill areas of depth.

Things are changing here. Who would thought someone say something like this. I am enjoying every minute of our current situation. Let us take to the playoffs!!! Texans' fans deserve this.

Go Texans!!!

Yankee_In_TX
11-07-2011, 09:15 AM
I think, regardless of his demands, we keep Mario next year. If the demands are such that the team finds it hard to keep Mario and Foster then you slap that franchise tag on Mario and see what happens. There will be a way to keep both of them. Reed, Barwin, and Mario makes for a great rotation.


That would be nice, I just have a gut feeling there's going to be one palm too many out stretched in the off season. I hope I am wrong!

Brisco_County
11-07-2011, 10:45 AM
In a perfect world, we can keep Mario and pay Foster his big contract. In the same perfect world, I watch them both play for us while Jennifer Connelly rubs my feet and Scarlett Johansson feeds me grapes.

Mr teX
11-07-2011, 11:03 AM
Again, You guys can say what you want, but those other guys simply aren't getting off with Reed like they were when mario was in there. & what's more is that we've hit a soft part of the schedule where that should've been more prevalent...It hasn't happened. Take what you will from that, but the evidence is there.

You guys actually think that we're going to let a proven talent like Mario go b/c a rookie has shown a few flashes? Get real.

#1... Mario's rookie contract was surprisingly cap friendly for a #1 overall pick which is how he got into the picture for #1 overall in 2006 in the 1st place. So why then would you guys think he wouldn't sign another cap-friendly contract with him coming off a season ending injury where he has 0 leverage?

#2, Mario's a team guy & always has been. In fact, coming out of college this was 1 of the pluses about him...he'll do what you ask him to do...

If Reed continues to excel & we're unable to justify keeping him off the field, the more likely scenario is that Mario will be resigned with a cap friendly contract, he'll go back down on the line @ DE & a few other less significant guys will be let go of to compensate. I'm thinking Cody & or Smith could be the odd guys out. Hell even Meco could be at risk considering his lessened role on the defense & the fact that sharpton has steadily improved & was coming on before his injury. Come the draft in 2012, we draft mostly for depth.

But this is ONLY if Reed comes on like gangbusters. i'm talking 12 sacks gangbusters. What he's doing now is cool, but it's not to the point where it justifies inserting him into the starting lineup over Mario imo.

cuppacoffee
11-07-2011, 11:11 AM
i think he is what he is. a solid rookie OLB in an ideal system with great play around him and extremely little attention from opposing offenses. the same knocks applied to mario beating tightends (he's supposed to make the play) need to be applied to unblocked reed (he's supposed to make the play). i dont mean to diminish what he's done, because the results are there, but he's got plenty of work to do. i think he'll only get better, but i'm hesitant to heap on too much praise.


Yep..but will Mario.


:coffee:

thunderkyss
11-07-2011, 11:23 AM
Again, You guys can say what you want, but those other guys simply aren't getting off with Reed like they were when mario was in there. & what's more is that we've hit a soft part of the schedule where that should've been more prevalent...It hasn't happened. Take what you will from that, but the evidence is there.


If time were to stop right now, you'd be absolutely 100% correct. But we've got 7+ games left to play. Young guys like Reed, Watt, Barwin... you haven't seen their best football yet & I think that's why people are so excited about them.

The fact is that Reed was drafted in the event that Mario couldn't make the transition, or that Barwin couldn't make the transition, or that Barwin wasn't ready to play, or that Mario got injured.

So if the front 5 continues to play like they did Sunday, progress & bring that kind of production against a quality opponent (Atlanta, Cincy, Carolina) then we won't be the only ones talking about Mario's value to this team.

Leach had value to this team, other teams had more value for him & what he brought..... that's just the way it goes sometime.

I like Mario... I've got 3 jerseys, red, white & blue.... I don't want to see him continue his production for another team.

But it is what it is. Regardless how good our pass rush looks without him, it will be better with him... so we'll always have room for him on the team. But if the team decides they can find better use of the money... oh well.

But personally, I think it's silly to be making that decision now.


edit After reading the rest of your post, it seems like we agree more than we disagree.

However, regardless of what Reed does, Barwin would be the odd man out, unless he's into double digit sacks as well.

Yankee_In_TX
11-07-2011, 11:29 AM
the more likely scenario is that Mario will be resigned with a cap friendly contract.

I really don't think anyone would poo poo keeping Mario and Foster - but I think you are making a BIG assumption with that plausibility of that.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I hope people are saying Brooks is better than Mario right now today (injury aside).

GuerillaBlack
11-07-2011, 11:35 AM
In a perfect world, we can keep Mario and pay Foster his big contract. In the same perfect world, I watch them both play for us while Jennifer Connelly rubs my feet and Scarlett Johansson feeds me grapes.

Isn't the salary cap suppose to increase in 2013? Franchise Mario, give Arian a contract, then resign Mario the next offseason.

ChampionTexan
11-07-2011, 11:42 AM
I'm starting to think that Clay Matthews and not Brooks Reed is the great impersonator ? Matthews had one good season and right now in his third year in the league and has only 3 sacks, while Reed has 4 even though he's played far less in 2011 than the packers LB.

I asked you this before - which of his seasons was that one good season? The ten sack season where he was runner up for DROY, or the 13.5 sack season where he was All Pro and an integral part of a Super Bowl winning defense?

IDEXAN
11-07-2011, 12:11 PM
I asked you this before - which of his seasons was that one good season? The ten sack season where he was runner up for DROY, or the 13.5 sack season where he was All Pro and an integral part of a Super Bowl winning defense?
You gotta a gotcha - I'd forgotten he had a double-digit sack total his rookie year ? OK, when I'm wrong (or mistaken) I'm wrong - it's a bit too early for him to be written off but what is his problem with this years low productivety ? Injuries ?

VTexan
11-07-2011, 12:28 PM
Why would you franchise Mario? 16 million for a player who is coming off a season ending injury? It is more likely that we will negotiate a contract with Mario (i'm thinking along the lines of 10-12 million a year) and then slap the franchise tag on Foster. Mario knows no team will pay him 16 million and I really do think he was enjoying this season under Wade. Being a 3-4 rushing OLB gives him more freedom than a 4-3 DE.

76Texan
11-07-2011, 12:32 PM
It will be an interesting off-season, that's for sure!

LikeMike
11-07-2011, 12:33 PM
Why would you franchise Mario? 16 million for a player who is coming off a season ending injury? It is more likely that we will negotiate a contract with Mario (i'm thinking along the lines of 10-12 million a year) and then slap the franchise tag on Foster. Mario knows no team will pay him 16 million and I really do think he was enjoying this season under Wade. Being a 3-4 rushing OLB gives him more freedom than a 4-3 DE.

Im not so sure that no other team would overpay him... what I would do is try to give Mario a contract with a nice base salary and heavy bonuses (playing x amount of games - a bonus for each sack...). You don`t just let Mario leave - he brings too much to the table...

But Brooks Reed might be the real deal. Clay had 10 sacks his rookie season - Reeds already has 4 in only 4 starts. Im not saying he is gonna be at the same level, but he sure seems to be a force to be reckoned with. And with Barwin and hopefully Mario, that is one fine pass rush at OLB.

We sure got great production out of our 1st and 2nd round rookies this year. Now it`d be nice if Harris could show up as well...

infantrycak
11-07-2011, 12:49 PM
and then slap the franchise tag on Foster.

I keep seeing this here and hearing it on the radio. Foster will not be an unrestricted free agent this coming off-season. The franchise tag isn't going to be used on him. He doesn't have enough accrued NFL seasons to get beyond the other options.

Texn4life
11-07-2011, 12:56 PM
I'm not sure that any team is going to shell out big bucks to sign Mario. He's had a pretty extensive injury history even though he's managed to play through most of them. I would love to see us work out a cap friendly deal that keeps him a Texan for the next 5-7 years. Brooks Reed has been an unexpected surprise, but just because he's played pretty well doesn't mean we should just let Mario walk. The ability to rotate Mario, Reed, and Barwin is something I would love to see next year. A year of off-season work and these guys will be absolute beasts a year from now in the defense.

Texn4life
11-07-2011, 12:58 PM
I keep seeing this here and hearing it on the radio. Foster will not be an unrestricted free agent this coming off-season. The franchise tag isn't going to be used on him. He doesn't have enough accrued NFL seasons to get beyond the other options.

I believe we can slap a restricted tender on him, but there is no way Foster shows up next year without a new contract. I applaud him for showing up and playing under the crappy contract he has now, but he's almost even said as much that it won't happen again next year.

YoungTexanFan
11-07-2011, 01:37 PM
Why is it only one or the other? The Giants win games because of their pass rush with a rotation of DEs (they play a 4-3) and the Patriots won with their pass rush with a rotation of LBs. Since when is having another pass rushing threat a bad thing? Rotate them. Let Phillips get creative w/a blitz using all three.

Now, none of us know if Reed or Barwin are the real deal. They have looked good so far, but it's halfway through their first season (significant season for Barwin at least). Reed still might hit the rookie wall. I'm a big supporter of his going back to his days at Arizona when I would fly out there twice a semester to visit my gf. But honestly, all three of our OLB options have question marks. I don't think Mario is going to get 16 million, but he's earned a good contract for his production over his career and the production he was having this year. The honest truth is that having all three guys is our best option.

dalemurphy
11-07-2011, 01:47 PM
Why is it only one or the other? The Giants win games because of their pass rush with a rotation of DEs (they play a 4-3) and the Patriots won with their pass rush with a rotation of LBs. Since when is having another pass rushing threat a bad thing? Rotate them. Let Phillips get creative w/a blitz using all three.

Now, none of us know if Reed or Barwin are the real deal. They have looked good so far, but it's halfway through their first season (significant season for Barwin at least). Reed still might hit the rookie wall. I'm a big supporter of his going back to his days at Arizona when I would fly out there twice a semester to visit my gf. But honestly, all three of our OLB options have question marks. I don't think Mario is going to get 16 million, but he's earned a good contract for his production over his career and the production he was having this year. The honest truth is that having all three guys is our best option.

What if we signed Lamar Woodley instead of Mario? Would you be happy with that? If we are going to spend big money at OLB, I'd rather spend it on a true OLB. Frankly, I'd be more gungho to keep Mario if we were considering moving him into the DLline rotation. I just don't think he makes sense at OLB at the price he'll command. Though, I do acknowledge, he was playing well early this season.

TimeKiller
11-07-2011, 01:48 PM
Well, besides the obvious, it's the Browns...etc... it sure is nice to see these 2 2nd round guys Barwin and Reed showing up BIG in games. 3 sacks between them, a multitude of hits (boy Reed brings the WOOD) and countless other pressures. How many times did they slap McCoy on the back? Like every other play?

Mario's role is obvious now. If these 2 can keep it up, they've got a chance to mold something special into form. Mario's ability at OLB is nice but they have to see him at DE in the 3-4 base occasionally now. With Barwin and Reed outside, Smith and Mario inside give the QB fits AND it opens up the deception/Mario playing DE it doesn't matter that he's coming every down.

mussop
11-07-2011, 01:57 PM
I asked you this before - which of his seasons was that one good season? The ten sack season where he was runner up for DROY, or the 13.5 sack season where he was All Pro and an integral part of a Super Bowl winning defense?
He has no noe opposite of him. Teams are truely focusing on stopping him from getting to the QB. All the "Mario is double teamed all the time" excuse makers should watch a green bay game and focus on CM3 to see what game planning against a particular player is really all about.

NitroGSXR
11-07-2011, 02:03 PM
I keep seeing this here and hearing it on the radio. Foster will not be an unrestricted free agent this coming off-season. The franchise tag isn't going to be used on him. He doesn't have enough accrued NFL seasons to get beyond the other options.

I knew it was going to be something like this but don't really understand what our options are with him? Tender?

ChampionTexan
11-07-2011, 02:06 PM
I think we will be able to sign foster and Mario. I can't remember the last time a team let someone of mario's caliber walk because they couldn't afford him. That's not going to happen. Someone will restructure, cap moves will be made, he will be signed IMO.

As far as filling other holes. . .???

What gaping holes are you looking to fill in free agency that we can't attempt to fill in the draft?

Brooks reed, Mario, and barwin in a healthy rotation makes me excited.

I think the Panthers letting Julius Peppers become a UFA probably meets this criteria, but I agree, there's several things that could happen with Mario, and him becoming unrestricted is likely the last thing the Texans want to see.

Here is the list of things that could happen with Mario listed by my best guess at what the Texans order of preference would be.

1. Agree to a long term deal prior to the start of the 2012 off-season.
2. Franchise him, and negotiate a long-term deal prior to the start of the 2012 season.
3. Franchise him (non-exclusive) and match another teams contract offer (unlikely).
4. Franchise him and let him play the 2012 season under that guaranteed one year deal.
5. Franchise him (non-exclusive) and choose not to match another teams contract offer and get two first round draft picks (also unlikely).
6. Franchise him and trade him ala Jared Allen or Matt Cassel.
7. Let him become an unrestricted free agent.

I also believe the estimates of a $16 Million franchise tag amount may be a bit low. I know for a fact that the prior years salary that must be increased by 20% includes more than just the base salary (Pro-rata portion of any signing bonus as an example). I know Jim Trotter from SI has indicated it would be in excess of $20 Million. I don't know exactly how much it will be, and I'm not going to argue, I'm just going to say I believe it's possible it could be more than most on this board have indicated.

In spite of my questions about what the amount of the franchise tag will be, I will say that I believe if necessary (If item 1 from the above list fails to happen), the Texans will put the franchise tag on him regardless of the amount. The one thing we know for a fact is that whatever Mario's 2011 cap amount is, franchising him will increase that number by less than $4 Million for 2012. While $4 Million is admittedly a big number, I would ask you, if the Texans are willing to let him count anywhere from $15 to $18 Million against the 2011 cap, are they going to let him walk and get nothing in return beyond a possible late third round compensatory pick, when for less than that $4 Million amount, they can provide themselves several options that provide far more value than one late third round pick. Throw in the fact that there will be some sort of increase to the total cap next season, and I absolutely don't believe they will.

dalemurphy
11-07-2011, 02:14 PM
I think the Panthers letting Julius Peppers become a UFA probably meets this criteria, but I agree, there's several things that could happen with Mario, and him becoming unrestricted is likely the last thing the Texans want to see.

Here is the list of things that could happen with Mario listed by my best guess at what the Texans order of preference would be.

1. Agree to a long term deal prior to the start of the 2012 off-season.
2. Franchise him, and negotiate a long-term deal prior to the start of the 2012 season.
3. Franchise him (non-exclusive) and match another teams contract offer (unlikely).
4. Franchise him and let him play the 2012 season under that guaranteed one year deal.
5. Franchise him (non-exclusive) and choose not to match another teams contract offer and get two first round draft picks (also unlikely).
6. Franchise him and trade him ala Jared Allen or Matt Cassel.
7. Let him become an unrestricted free agent.

I also believe the estimates of a $16 Million franchise tag amount may be a bit low. I know for a fact that the prior years salary that must be increased by 20% includes more than just the base salary (Pro-rata portion of any signing bonus as an example). I know Jim Trotter from SI has indicated it would be in excess of $20 Million. I don't know exactly how much it will be, and I'm not going to argue, I'm just going to say I believe it's possible it could be more than most on this board have indicated.

In spite of my questions about what the amount of the franchise tag will be, I will say that I believe if necessary (If item 1 from the above list fails to happen), the Texans will put the franchise tag on him regardless of the amount. The one thing we know for a fact is that whatever Mario's 2011 cap amount is, franchising him will increase that number by less than $4 Million for 2012. While $4 Million is admittedly a big number, I would ask you, if the Texans are willing to let him count anywhere from $15 to $18 Million against the 2011 cap, are they going to let him walk and get nothing in return beyond a possible late third round compensatory pick, when for less than that $4 Million amount, they can provide themselves several options that provide far more value than that. Throw in the fact that there will be some sort of increase to the total cap next season, and I absolutely don't believe they will.


There is no way the Texans can franchise him next season. It would put them over the cap and prevent them from signing Foster, extending Schaub, etc... I'm almost positive they will have to sign him to a long term deal or let him walk. Remember, though, that the Texans could get some compensation back for Mario if he walks, depending on how the rest of free agency goes (compensatory selections). Likely though, the Texans wouldn't get draft picks but would have some spending money for free agency.

Perhaps they could franchise him then trade him. However, they better have a deal in place, otherwise they could end up in a very sticky situation.

badboy
11-07-2011, 02:21 PM
Obviously, since you don't value Mario very much, this make alot of sense to you. To us that highly value him, we don't think getting rid of him will make us better.

You can make the same argument about Foster since Tate is playing so well. I'm surprised people aren't suggesting we trade or do not re-sign Foster.Huge difference in that signing Foster will not take up so much of your cap space. I like Mario but if we can save apprx $10-14 million in cap space plus get high picks why not? I think if we discuss any player being on team we need to consider the whole enchalada.

badboy
11-07-2011, 02:31 PM
Why would you franchise Mario? 16 million for a player who is coming off a season ending injury? It is more likely that we will negotiate a contract with Mario (i'm thinking along the lines of 10-12 million a year) and then slap the franchise tag on Foster. Mario knows no team will pay him 16 million and I really do think he was enjoying this season under Wade. Being a 3-4 rushing OLB gives him more freedom than a 4-3 DE.You do not have to franchise Foster. He is an exclusive rights player and no other team can negotiate with him without Texans permission. With Tate doing well (similar to Reed), Foster should sign a reasonable deal as he has little choice. Foster's longevity should increase with Tate on the team.

infantrycak
11-07-2011, 02:37 PM
I knew it was going to be something like this but don't really understand what our options are with him? Tender?

I believe badboy is correct and Foster is ERFA next year because his first year was not accrued. Worst case scenario he could be retained with an RFA high tender of around $1.5 mil.

There is no way the Texans can franchise him next season. It would put them over the cap and prevent them from signing Foster, extending Schaub, etc...

You keep injecting Foster like it is a must do this coming off-season or we lose him and it just isn't true. Also Matt Schaub is signed for 2012.

IDEXAN
11-07-2011, 02:47 PM
You do not have to franchise Foster. He is an exclusive rights player and no other team can negotiate with him without Texans permission. With Tate doing well (similar to Reed), Foster should sign a reasonable deal as he has little choice. Foster's longevity should increase with Tate on the team.
I think Tate is a better runner than Foster, though Arian might be a better
pass-receiver. So I'd rather have Tate over the long-term because he
not only runs harder than Foster, but he's also a more dangerous long-threat. Now if we could get a high to mid second-rounder for Arian I'd move him, though even young vet backs like Arian aren't very marketable generally speaking.

badboy
11-07-2011, 02:47 PM
I think the Panthers letting Julius Peppers become a UFA probably meets this criteria, but I agree, there's several things that could happen with Mario, and him becoming unrestricted is likely the last thing the Texans want to see.

Here is the list of things that could happen with Mario listed by my best guess at what the Texans order of preference would be.

1. Agree to a long term deal prior to the start of the 2012 off-season.
2. Franchise him, and negotiate a long-term deal prior to the start of the 2012 season.
3. Franchise him (non-exclusive) and match another teams contract offer (unlikely).
4. Franchise him and let him play the 2012 season under that guaranteed one year deal.
5. Franchise him (non-exclusive) and choose not to match another teams contract offer and get two first round draft picks (also unlikely).
6. Franchise him and trade him ala Jared Allen or Matt Cassel.
7. Let him become an unrestricted free agent.

I also believe the estimates of a $16 Million franchise tag amount may be a bit low. I know for a fact that the prior years salary that must be increased by 20% includes more than just the base salary (Pro-rata portion of any signing bonus as an example). I know Jim Trotter from SI has indicated it would be in excess of $20 Million. I don't know exactly how much it will be, and I'm not going to argue, I'm just going to say I believe it's possible it could be more than most on this board have indicated.

In spite of my questions about what the amount of the franchise tag will be, I will say that I believe if necessary (If item 1 from the above list fails to happen), the Texans will put the franchise tag on him regardless of the amount. The one thing we know for a fact is that whatever Mario's 2011 cap amount is, franchising him will increase that number by less than $4 Million for 2012. While $4 Million is admittedly a big number, I would ask you, if the Texans are willing to let him count anywhere from $15 to $18 Million against the 2011 cap, are they going to let him walk and get nothing in return beyond a possible late third round compensatory pick, when for less than that $4 Million amount, they can provide themselves several options that provide far more value than one late third round pick. Throw in the fact that there will be some sort of increase to the total cap next season, and I absolutely don't believe they will.FYI, Mario's current salary is $13.8m. That + 20% ($2.76m) = $16.56million. If that is the agreement for next season there is no bonus & that will be the cap hit. He does have one year of prorated money in this season and that's why the cap was a bit higher than just his base.

Errant Hothy
11-07-2011, 02:49 PM
I still think this defense needs a speed rusher opposite either Reed/Williams/Barwin. Reed and Williams (pre-injury) have both out played Barwin so far this season, but none of them have the explosiveness that defines the elite 34 pass rushers.

thunderkyss
11-07-2011, 02:49 PM
I knew it was going to be something like this but don't really understand what our options are with him? Tender?


He's not going anywhere. He can not talk to other teams, he can not test the market.

The only thing he can do is hold out of camp like CJ2ypc did & force the Texans to give him more money.

dalemurphy
11-07-2011, 02:49 PM
I believe badboy is correct and Foster is ERFA next year because his first year was not accrued. Worst case scenario he could be retained with an RFA high tender of around $1.5 mil.



You keep injecting Foster like it is a must do this coming off-season or we lose him and it just isn't true. Also Matt Schaub is signed for 2012.


Foster has to holdout if he doesn't get a deal. Plus, the Texans have promised him a new deal this season.

The Texans aren't going to go into Schaub's final season without an extension in place, I don't think.

I realize both are under Texans' control until after 2012 but circumstances demand things happen this off-season.

TexCanada
11-07-2011, 02:52 PM
It will be an interesting off-season, that's for sure!

Yes, and hopefully it is at least a couple of weeks shorter then we are used to.

Section516
11-07-2011, 03:13 PM
Not going to hijack thread

Dutchrudder
11-07-2011, 03:27 PM
There is no way the Texans can franchise him next season. It would put them over the cap and prevent them from signing Foster, extending Schaub, etc... I'm almost positive they will have to sign him to a long term deal or let him walk. Remember, though, that the Texans could get some compensation back for Mario if he walks, depending on how the rest of free agency goes (compensatory selections). Likely though, the Texans wouldn't get draft picks but would have some spending money for free agency.

Perhaps they could franchise him then trade him. However, they better have a deal in place, otherwise they could end up in a very sticky situation.

You can go over the cap with franchise tags or free agents, you just have to have your top 53 contracts equal to or less than the cap total a couple days before the first game.

badboy
11-07-2011, 03:27 PM
I believe badboy is correct and Foster is ERFA next year because his first year was not accrued. Worst case scenario he could be retained with an RFA high tender of around $1.5 mil.



You keep injecting Foster like it is a must do this coming off-season or we lose him and it just isn't true. Also Matt Schaub is signed for 2012.

He was signed as an undrafted free agent to a 3 year contract for just over $3 million. ALthough injured in his first season, he did play and I think that year was accrued. He is in is third season & under the four year requirement to achieve UFA status. As the new television deal begins in 2014, I could see him signing a cap friendly deal with nice bonus & heavy laden on back end. If Mario signs a long term deal, same with him.

ChampionTexan
11-07-2011, 03:29 PM
There is no way the Texans can franchise him next season. It would put them over the cap and prevent them from signing Foster, extending Schaub, etc... I'm almost positive they will have to sign him to a long term deal or let him walk. Remember, though, that the Texans could get some compensation back for Mario if he walks, depending on how the rest of free agency goes (compensatory selections). Likely though, the Texans wouldn't get draft picks but would have some spending money for free agency.

Perhaps they could franchise him then trade him. However, they better have a deal in place, otherwise they could end up in a very sticky situation.

That's exactly what everyone said about Julius Peppers prior to the '09 season, yet he was franchised one final time in spite of everyone's belief that Carolina couldn't afford it.

Extending Schaub's contract could actually create room under the 2012 cap, and it's not like Mario's contract is zero against the cap - it's already anywhere from $15 - 18 Million. If they've made the judgement he's worth that much this season, it's tough to make be believe another $3.5 million (give or take) is going to put them in a position to let him go scott free. It may take a little juggling and creativity, but to say there's no way they can do it is silly - particularly since it's pretty much a given there will be some increase in the 2012 cap amount.

Also, thanks for reminding me that the Texans could get some compensatory picks if they did let him walk. The risk was high that in the period of time between when I wrote about it in my post, and you reminded me about it, I might have completely forgotten about that.

eriadoc
11-07-2011, 05:33 PM
Brooks Reed for DROY! He plays a position that wins the award frequently, and he has the motor to make plays that show up on highlight reels. Alas, he'll only win it once.

Ole Miss Texan
11-07-2011, 05:37 PM
Brooks Reed for DROY! He plays a position that wins the award frequently, and he has the motor to make plays that show up on highlight reels. Alas, he'll only win it once.

If he keeps playing like the last 4 games! Von Miller and Aldon Smith are bothing having great years too though.

eriadoc
11-07-2011, 05:39 PM
If he keeps playing like the last 4 games! Von Miller and Aldon Smith are bothing having great years too though.

Yeah, but Texans win DROY. It's what they do. :lol:

Ole Miss Texan
11-07-2011, 05:42 PM
Yeah, but Texans win DROY. It's what they do. :lol:

True...

Demeco Ryans
Patrick Willis
Jerod Mayo
Brian Cushing
Brian Cushing
Ndamakung Suh


:ahhaha:

Dutchrudder
11-07-2011, 05:42 PM
If he keeps playing like the last 4 games! Von Miller and Aldon Smith are bothing having great years too though.

Von Miller has 31 tackles, 2 FF and 6.5 sacks through 8 games.

Aldon Smith has 13 tackles, 1 FF and 6.5 sacks through 8 games.

Brooks Reed has 25 tackles, 0 FF and 4 sacks through 9 games.


Reed is catching up, but he's behind a bit. 7 more games starting ought to give him ample opportunity to make a statement.

Ole Miss Texan
11-07-2011, 05:44 PM
Von Miller has 31 tackles, 2 FF and 6.5 sacks through 8 games.

Aldon Smith has 13 tackles, 1 FF and 6.5 sacks through 8 games.

Brooks Reed has 25 tackles, 0 FF and 4 sacks through 9 games.


Reed is catching up, but he's behind a bit. 7 more games starting ought to give him ample opportunity to make a statement.

Yea, he'll be getting more snaps through the final 7 games than he did during the first 9, I bet. I think we'll see some forced fumbles along the way too. I love the way he comes in at times with the tomahawk chop at the QB.

dalemurphy
11-07-2011, 06:16 PM
You can go over the cap with franchise tags or free agents, you just have to have your top 53 contracts equal to or less than the cap total a couple days before the first game.

Dutch,

That's the risk. What if the Texans franchise him in order to trade him and are $10 mil over the cap. If they can't trade him, they also can't recant the signed tag. Therefore, they have to clear $10 mil in cap space. That would be very, very ugly.

Dutchrudder
11-07-2011, 06:39 PM
Dutch,

That's the risk. What if the Texans franchise him in order to trade him and are $10 mil over the cap. If they can't trade him, they also can't recant the signed tag. Therefore, they have to clear $10 mil in cap space. That would be very, very ugly.

Well, I don't think they will need to cut anyone to maintain their cap figure. They already have 14.8 million dedicated to him this year, so another ~2 million won't be hard to find. Cut Derrick Mason and you got it. He doesn't deserve 2.2 million next year anyways.

I don't want to see the Texans get stuck holding the bag of 17 million guaranteed for an OLB either, but they may be forced to do it. I don't think it's the right move, as I don't believe his market value is above 12 a year, but we shall see.

badboy
11-07-2011, 07:22 PM
Dutch,

That's the risk. What if the Texans franchise him in order to trade him and are $10 mil over the cap. If they can't trade him, they also can't recant the signed tag. Therefore, they have to clear $10 mil in cap space. That would be very, very ugly.The prior club can rescind the offer on an type tag including the exclusive and unexclusive and the player immediately becomes an unresticted free agent and can negotiate with any team.

dalemurphy
11-07-2011, 07:46 PM
The prior club can rescind the offer on an type tag including the exclusive and unexclusive and the player immediately becomes an unresticted free agent and can negotiate with any team.

Badboy,

After it has been offered but before it has been signed. Once signed, the Texans are obligated to it. At least, that is my understanding.

VTexan
11-07-2011, 09:20 PM
Well, besides the obvious, it's the Browns...etc... it sure is nice to see these 2 2nd round guys Barwin and Reed showing up BIG in games. 3 sacks between them, a multitude of hits (boy Reed brings the WOOD) and countless other pressures. How many times did they slap McCoy on the back? Like every other play?

Mario's role is obvious now. If these 2 can keep it up, they've got a chance to mold something special into form. Mario's ability at OLB is nice but they have to see him at DE in the 3-4 base occasionally now. With Barwin and Reed outside, Smith and Mario inside give the QB fits AND it opens up the deception/Mario playing DE it doesn't matter that he's coming every down.



I could even see JJ Watt lining up at DT in the future. We'd have Mario, Watt, Smith, Barwin, Cushing, Reed all rushing the qb on a blitz.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMcz0mhhqsRKoRt9VVfOgsLZWAZUBj2 d7Q9wL9wXi38eO-_EGQ

Rey
11-07-2011, 09:56 PM
I could even see JJ Watt lining up at DT in the future. We'd have Mario, Watt, Smith, Barwin, Cushing, Reed all rushing the qb on a blitz.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMcz0mhhqsRKoRt9VVfOgsLZWAZUBj2 d7Q9wL9wXi38eO-_EGQ

On passing downs I'd like to see them all standing and moving around maybe one down lineman. Mix it up. Rush some, drop some.

All those guys would be nearly impossible to block.

dalemurphy
11-08-2011, 03:46 AM
On passing downs I'd like to see them all standing and moving around maybe one down lineman. Mix it up. Rush some, drop some.

All those guys would be nearly impossible to block.

I saw this vs. Jacksonville. On a 3rd and long in the second half, the Texans only down lineman was Antonio Smith, who was playing NT. Everyone else was standing. Smith almost got a sack on the play.

leebigeztx
11-08-2011, 05:34 AM
Big props to Brooks for creating pressure and getting some sacks! He's really filling in well for one of the league's best, especially for only being a rookie.

Now getting that out of the way... the guy, in my eyes, is still raw. He's beating people by pure speed. But if an OL gets their hands on him, I haven't seen him have the ability to shed the block. Right now, he's sorta a one-trick pony when it comes to rushing the passer.

But I'm really rooting for the guy to develop his rush moves. He needs to learn how to beat blocks in order to bring pressure and create havoc on every play. He needs to draw the protection's attention. Once he can do this, then we can start talking about the possibility of not bringing Mario back next season.

Yep, mark anderson had 14 sacks as a situational rusher as a 3rd round rookie. Since that time, he hasn't smelled double digit sacks. Cameron wmbley was the same although he had a rebirth last year. Those guys had 1 move, speed rush and couldn't convert speed to power. Hopefully reed will be capable one day, but right now he can't.

VTexan
11-13-2011, 04:37 PM
5 starts, 5 sacks.

HJam72
11-13-2011, 04:59 PM
5 starts, 5 sacks.

Wow, that almost sounds like Mario Williams playing OLB in a Wade Phillips 3-4. :wadepalm:

The Pencil Neck
11-13-2011, 05:33 PM
Doesn't that set the Texan's Rookie Sack Record?

HJam72
11-13-2011, 05:34 PM
Doesn't that set the Texan's Rookie Sack Record?

I bet it sets the Texans backup (behind Mario) rookie sack record, LOL.

hradhak
11-13-2011, 05:44 PM
Man he's been playing well. And it's not just the sacks. He's getting pressure consistently and he's made several plays in the run game. I frankly expected him and Watt to make an impact next season, but not this year. IMO both should be DROY, just wondering who will get it.

thunderkyss
11-13-2011, 05:46 PM
Man he's been playing well. And it's not just the sacks. He's getting pressure consistently and he's made several plays in the run game. I frankly expected him and Watt to make an impact next season, but not this year. IMO both should be DROY, just wondering who will get it.

Watt's a freak'n football player. PERIOD!!

Country Hulk.

Playmaker
11-13-2011, 05:54 PM
If this defense is top 5 at the end of the year and Reed gets double digit sacks and/or gets national awards such as Pro bowl/Defensive Rookie of the Year etc etc., at what point do you consider letting Mario walk and save the money to use at other positions?

ObsiWan
11-13-2011, 05:54 PM
Doesn't that set the Texan's Rookie Sack Record?
It might. Mario had 4.5 sacks as a rookie

HJam72
11-13-2011, 06:06 PM
If this defense is top 5 at the end of the year and Reed gets double digit sacks and/or gets national awards such as Pro bowl/Defensive Rookie of the Year etc etc., at what point do you consider letting Mario walk and save the money to use at other positions?

The day after the Superbowl.

Oh, you said "consider"...

I've already been considering it for weeks...

ATXtexanfan
11-13-2011, 06:15 PM
If this defense is top 5 at the end of the year and Reed gets double digit sacks and/or gets national awards such as Pro bowl/Defensive Rookie of the Year etc etc., at what point do you consider letting Mario walk and save the money to use at other positions?

no reason to pay mario

The Pencil Neck
11-13-2011, 06:16 PM
It might. Mario had 4.5 sacks as a rookie

I looked it up. Okoye had 5.5 his rookie season.

So he hasn't broken it, yet.

Naiirb
11-13-2011, 06:20 PM
5 sacks with 6 games to go. If Reed can get to 10 or more i definitely think hes going to be one of the leading candidates for DROY along with Von Miller. Aldon Smith could be in the race but i don't see it as he's not a every down player and mostly plays on passing downs unlike Reed.

I also think Watt should garner some attention but he dosen't play the pretty positions even though hes had a stellar rookie year so far.

If Reed or Watt win it how sick would it be to have 3 DROY out of the last 6 years.

Mr teX
11-13-2011, 06:23 PM
5 sacks with 6 games to go. If Reed can get to 10 or more i definitely think hes going to be one of the leading candidates for DROY along with Von Miller. Aldon Smith could be in the race but i don't see it as he's not a every down player and mostly plays on passing downs unlike Reed.

I also think Watt should garner some attention but he dosen't play the pretty positions even though hes had a stellar rookie year so far.

If Reed or Watt win it how sick would it be to have 3 DROY out of the last 6 years.

Patrick Peterson has DPOY locked up already even though the big plays he has made have been on ST.

thunderkyss
11-13-2011, 06:58 PM
If this defense is top 5 at the end of the year and Reed gets double digit sacks and/or gets national awards such as Pro bowl/Defensive Rookie of the Year etc etc., at what point do you consider letting Mario walk and save the money to use at other positions?

My opinion, is that you need Mario if this is the case.

Now if Reed & Barwin have double digit sacks & we aren't blitzing as much..... Then I'll be fine with letting Mario walk.

For years, Mario has been the best player on defense, with no help. We started this year, & everyone across the line was getting sacks. JJ Watt, Barwin, Antonio, Mario & even Cody.

When all those guys are involved with pressuring the QB (& I know sacks aren't the end all be all, but if you're getting sacks, you're getting hurries, pressures, & hits). Then you've got something.

If at the end of the year, Brooks is the only one with double digit sacks, & no one else is close, then it doesn't make sense to me to not bring Mario back.

Playmaker
11-13-2011, 07:26 PM
My opinion, is that you need Mario if this is the case.

Now if Reed & Barwin have double digit sacks & we aren't blitzing as much..... Then I'll be fine with letting Mario walk.

For years, Mario has been the best player on defense, with no help. We started this year, & everyone across the line was getting sacks. JJ Watt, Barwin, Antonio, Mario & even Cody.

When all those guys are involved with pressuring the QB (& I know sacks aren't the end all be all, but if you're getting sacks, you're getting hurries, pressures, & hits). Then you've got something.

If at the end of the year, Brooks is the only one with double digit sacks, & no one else is close, then it doesn't make sense to me to not bring Mario back.

I can't see this defense not blitzing down the stretch, Wade sees that its successful and he'll keep doing it.

I am intrigued of a future LB corps of Mario/Cushing/Ryans/Reed with Barwin and Sharpton providing depth though.

thunderkyss
11-13-2011, 07:51 PM
I can't see this defense not blitzing down the stretch, Wade sees that its successful and he'll keep doing it.

I am intrigued of a future LB corps of Mario/Cushing/Ryans/Reed with Barwin and Sharpton providing depth though.

There's nothing wrong with blitzing. It has to be done in balance though. From time to time, you have to get pressure without blitzing.

jtexas
11-13-2011, 08:01 PM
Patrick Peterson has DPOY locked up already even though the big plays he has made have been on ST.

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but he isn't even close to ROY or DPOY. Von Miller, Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, AJ Green, Marcell Dareus, Aldon Smith, and Julio Jones are all playing great and getting noticed. Peterson has been picked on in coverage all year. He gets targeted about 6 times a game.

Opposing QBs have an average 80 qb rating against him and they have racked up over 400 yards this season with a 55% completion rate. Without his special teams TDs he would be in bust watch.

ATXtexanfan
11-13-2011, 08:07 PM
My opinion, is that you need Mario if this is the case.

Now if Reed & Barwin have double digit sacks & we aren't blitzing as much..... Then I'll be fine with letting Mario walk.

For years, Mario has been the best player on defense, with no help. We started this year, & everyone across the line was getting sacks. JJ Watt, Barwin, Antonio, Mario & even Cody.

When all those guys are involved with pressuring the QB (& I know sacks aren't the end all be all, but if you're getting sacks, you're getting hurries, pressures, & hits). Then you've got something.

If at the end of the year, Brooks is the only one with double digit sacks, & no one else is close, then it doesn't make sense to me to not bring Mario back.

nice post, for real

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-13-2011, 08:28 PM
Wow, that almost sounds like Mario Williams playing OLB in a Wade Phillips 3-4. :wadepalm:

At a fraction of the cost ;)

BSofA04
11-13-2011, 10:39 PM
Another start, another sack for Brooks Reed! One more and he will own the rookie record....unless J.J. Watt wants to join the party! Both of them have been much better than we expected. I want to say they are perfect for our defensive system but with their non-stop motors, they probably would do well in any system.

Thank god we have a defensive coordinator who knows how to hand pick quality players.

At the end of the season, it wouldn't surprise me if Brooks had 9-10 sacks and J.J. had 5-6.

Scooter
11-13-2011, 10:54 PM
very impressive outing from the rookie today ... make that both rookies. reed and watt (WATT?!?!?! as i shout at my tv) are noticably growing every week. not to get ahead of what's going on now, but i cant help but wonder what these two look like in future seasons because the only flaws i see are cured by experience.

BSofA04
11-14-2011, 12:29 AM
very impressive outing from the rookie today ... make that both rookies. reed and watt (WATT?!?!?! as i shout at my tv) are noticably growing every week. not to get ahead of what's going on now, but i cant help but wonder what these two look like in future seasons because the only flaws i see are cured by experience.
This is how you build a defense for years to come!!! I actually look forward to the defense going on the field. It's fun to see who's going to get a sack, fumble, INT, etc. No more cringing :bender:

TimeKiller
11-14-2011, 08:27 AM
Another day, another OL destroyed by Reed, Barwin, Cushing and Watt. These dudes are really gettin' after it!!!

Mr teX
11-14-2011, 09:16 AM
I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but he isn't even close to ROY or DPOY. Von Miller, Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, AJ Green, Marcell Dareus, Aldon Smith, and Julio Jones are all playing great and getting noticed. Peterson has been picked on in coverage all year. He gets targeted about 6 times a game.


Opposing QBs have an average 80 qb rating against him and they have racked up over 400 yards this season with a 55% completion rate. Without his special teams TDs he would be in bust watch.

Not sure how Newton, Dalton, Green & Jones qualify for DROY as they are all offensive guys....

& Lol, Stop kidding yourself..Dareus is not in the running, he's done nothing to stand out..not a bust, but certainly hasn't done anything to warrant DROY consideration.

& you said it yourself Smith isn't even an every down guy & is just another guy playing on an outstanding defense.

It's between Miller & Peterson

Miller probably should be the guy, but he's getting killed by Tebow-mania; If he doesn't show up this thursday in prime time he may be doomed.

I say peterson b/c he's made the most "highlight" plays that have directly impacted games....that's all anyone's looking at.

Reed & Watt fall somewhere in where CM III did in his rookie yr. He had 10 sacks that year but noone really paid attention b/c he was hurt early on & he wasn't a full time starter just yet............... It was also Rodgers' coming out party that year.

Errant Hothy
11-14-2011, 09:20 AM
Watt's a freak'n football player. PERIOD!!

Country Hulk.

I'd be all for this becoming the offical JJ Watt nickname.

Rey
11-14-2011, 09:37 AM
Brooks Reed and JJ Watt looked good yesterday.

The most impressive thing I saw from Reed was the batted ball...That is showing activity. Affecting the game in multiple ways.

b0ng
11-14-2011, 09:54 AM
Not sure how Newton, Dalton, Green & Jones qualify for DROY as they are all offensive guys....

& Lol, Stop kidding yourself..Dareus is not in the running, he's done nothing to stand out..not a bust, but certainly hasn't done anything to warrant DROY consideration.

& you said it yourself Smith isn't even an every down guy & is just another guy playing on an outstanding defense.

It's between Miller & Peterson

Miller probably should be the guy, but he's getting killed by Tebow-mania; If he doesn't show up this thursday in prime time he may be doomed.

I say peterson b/c he's made the most "highlight" plays that have directly impacted games....that's all anyone's looking at.

Reed & Watt fall somewhere in where CM III did in his rookie yr. He had 10 sacks that year but noone really paid attention b/c he was hurt early on & he wasn't a full time starter just yet............... It was also Rodgers' coming out party that year.

It's more between Aldon Smith and Von Miller than anybody else.

steelbtexan
11-14-2011, 10:44 AM
I'd be all for this becoming the offical JJ Watt nickname.

Me too

It's a fitting description

Texecutioner
11-14-2011, 11:00 AM
Man Brooks Reed looked like an animal yesterday. This kid excites me!

mussop
11-14-2011, 11:37 AM
Peterson has zero chance at DROY. ZERO! You don't win DROY for returning kicks.

I know some of you will never get this and some just don't want to but this defense is better with Reed at LB than it is with Mario at LB. Not saying Reed is better than Mario either. Just saying that with Reed in there with Barwin we are Unpredictable. Reed and Barwin are interchangeable. They are both good at dropping into coverage.

When Mario is in the game you know he is the one coming 98% of the time. And for the guy who says you can't blitz all the time, sure you can as long as you mix it up and come from different positions. Wade has done a beautiful job of this since Reed has Become a starter. I don't see him letting up either. Why stop if it is working?

Having said all this I still hope Mario is signed to a reasonable contract and is put back where he belongs, DE. Watt would be a huge upgrade over Cody. Like I have been saying all year, this gets our best players on the field.

Insideop
11-14-2011, 12:38 PM
Peterson has zero chance at DROY. ZERO! You don't win DROY for returning kicks.

I know some of you will never get this and some just don't want to but this defense is better with Reed at LB than it is with Mario at LB. Not saying Reed is better than Mario either. Just saying that with Reed in there with Barwin we are Unpredictable. Reed and Barwin are interchangeable. They are both good at dropping into coverage.

When Mario is in the game you know he is the one coming 98% of the time. And for the guy who says you can't blitz all the time, sure you can as long as you mix it up and come from different positions. Wade has done a beautiful job of this since Reed has Become a starter. I don't see him letting up either. Why stop if it is working?

Having said all this I still hope Mario is signed to a reasonable contract and is put back where he belongs, DE. Watt would be a huge upgrade over Cody. Like I have been saying all year, this gets our best players on the field.

Watt is better suited to a 3-4 DE or a 4-3 DT. I don't think he would be a good NT in a 3-4. I do agree Mario would be better off moving back to DE in a 4-3, but he wasn't doing too bad as an OLB in Wade's system. He is still tied with Reed for the most sacks (5) on the team, and he's missed like 5 or 6 games. So he was doing a pretty good job. Do I think Reed is better suited to that position? Yes, but I don't think moving Mario to a 3-4 DE and Watt to a 3-4 NT is the answer.

What is the answer? IMO it is to franchise Mario and see how he comes back at the OLB position. If he's doing well, then we have great depth at that position and after next year you can resign him or look for a trade for multiple draft picks. If he doesn't work out or Reed is just too good to sit, then I'm sure there are multiple 4-3 teams out there that would love to trade for Mario.

thunderkyss
11-14-2011, 12:40 PM
Watt is better suited to a 3-4 DE or a 4-3 DT. I don't think he would be a good NT in a 3-4.

Shaun Cody is basically playing as if he were a 4-3 NT.

LikeMike
11-14-2011, 12:51 PM
It's more between Aldon Smith and Von Miller than anybody else.

I agree... but if things continue as they are going now, Im pretty sure that either Watt or Reed... maybe both... will be in the discussion as well. Reed may very well end up with around 10 sacks, and Watt just does everything extremely well and reliable. But in the end, my money is on Von Miller...

Mr teX
11-14-2011, 01:19 PM
Peterson has zero chance at DROY. ZERO! You don't win DROY for returning kicks.

I know some of you will never get this and some just don't want to but this defense is better with Reed at LB than it is with Mario at LB. Not saying Reed is better than Mario either. Just saying that with Reed in there with Barwin we are Unpredictable. Reed and Barwin are interchangeable. They are both good at dropping into coverage.

When Mario is in the game you know he is the one coming 98% of the time. And for the guy who says you can't blitz all the time, sure you can as long as you mix it up and come from different positions. Wade has done a beautiful job of this since Reed has Become a starter. I don't see him letting up either. Why stop if it is working?

Having said all this I still hope Mario is signed to a reasonable contract and is put back where he belongs, DE. Watt would be a huge upgrade over Cody. Like I have been saying all year, this gets our best players on the field.

All this crap reminds me about how everyone was sooo concerned about the middle of our run defense & how we'd get killed up the middle b/c noone on our team is big/good enough to hold up in a 3-4 as a run stopping plug. 10 games later, our run defense has been great & this has been a non-issue.

I say that to say, just b/c you keep saying the above doesn't make it true.

You guys just don't get it. Here it is pretty much from the horse's mouth about how much dropping into coverage Wade's OLB do in his version of the 3-4:

" Phillips said DeMarcus Ware, who filled the same role for him in Dallas, dropped maybe 15 times total last season. Shawne Merriman, who also played the spot for Phillips in San Diego, was rarely used in coverage, either. "It's really just an outside rush guy who rushes most of the time," Phillips said. "It should be a good thing for Mario. That's what he does well. They know he's going to be coming. We just have to move him around."

So spare me the BS about unpredictability. Wade doesn't run his version of the 3-4 the traditional way & wasn't/isn't too concerned about it. My question to you all is why are you guys so obsessed with the getting an OLB that's great at dropping into coverage when he'll being do so a total 15-20 times a season in wade's system. What's more is why be concerned about "unpredicatability" when the proven D-coordinator who's run his system successfully in the NFL for 20+ years isn't? Not sure why this is so hard to grasp for some.

Furthermore what plays has Reed made in coverage to give you this idea that Reed is sooooo much better in coverage than Mario is/was? The answer is none.

I like Reed too & foresee him being a force next year, but the reality of it is I don't foresee his play affecting whether or not Mario is here next year or not. He will be here. its just a matter of where will Reed be.

Naiirb
11-14-2011, 01:30 PM
.....It's between Miller & Peterson

Miller probably should be the guy, but he's getting killed by Tebow-mania; If he doesn't show up this thursday in prime time he may be doomed.

I say peterson b/c he's made the most "highlight" plays that have directly impacted games....that's all anyone's looking at.

Reed & Watt fall somewhere in where CM III did in his rookie yr. He had 10 sacks that year but noone really paid attention b/c he was hurt early on & he wasn't a full time starter just yet............... It was also Rodgers' coming out party that year.

As others have said you don't win DROY by returning kicks. See Devin Hester who played on the defensive side of the ball, had a phenomenal rookie year, made all pro, and didnt win the award.


It's more between Aldon Smith and Von Miller than anybody else.

Von Miller is certainly in contention but at this point i would consider Brooks Reed over Aldon Smith. Smith only has 1.5 more sacks than Reed despite playing since the start of the season and Reed has nearly double the amount of tackles. Add on top Smith is not a every down player mostly plays on passing down unlike Reed.

If the Texans finish in the top 5 in defense and Reed has 10 or more sacks its gonna be a real tight race between him and Von Miller.

edit: I haven't really payed much attention to the Redskins but it looks like Kerrigan is having a pretty good rookie year just looking at his stats.

El Tejano
11-14-2011, 01:39 PM
You know what, they can have DROY. Watt and Reed will be our DROYs and we will go to the playoffs.

thunderkyss
11-14-2011, 02:00 PM
I like Reed too & foresee him being a force next year, but the reality of it is I don't foresee his play affecting whether or not Mario is here next year or not. He will be here. its just a matter of where will Reed be.

Just imagine how tough Reed is going to look when he's playing with Mario on the other side of him next year.

We'll have to come up with even more nick-names.

TheCD
11-14-2011, 02:48 PM
Peterson has zero chance at DROY. ZERO! You don't win DROY for returning kicks.

I know some of you will never get this and some just don't want to but this defense is better with Reed at LB than it is with Mario at LB. Not saying Reed is better than Mario either. Just saying that with Reed in there with Barwin we are Unpredictable. Reed and Barwin are interchangeable. They are both good at dropping into coverage.

When Mario is in the game you know he is the one coming 98% of the time. And for the guy who says you can't blitz all the time, sure you can as long as you mix it up and come from different positions. Wade has done a beautiful job of this since Reed has Become a starter. I don't see him letting up either. Why stop if it is working?

Having said all this I still hope Mario is signed to a reasonable contract and is put back where he belongs, DE. Watt would be a huge upgrade over Cody. Like I have been saying all year, this gets our best players on the field.


I agree with you about the blitz being unpredictable, but the thing I'm looking at with Mario in is that not only is he still racking up sacks when they know he's coming, he's also causing guys like Watt and Antonio (who has been good but not as much since Mario went down) to get one-on-one matchups that garner sacks.

We will re-sign Mario, no doubt. And if Brooks develops solidly not only will we not have to worry about depth anymore, but we have a wonderful luxury of always having fresh rushers. I'm certain that this would allow Mario to rest more often, which will cause him to get better, and also allow the uncertainty of where the rush is coming from, as you were mentioning.

TdotTexas2Step
11-14-2011, 04:08 PM
There were rumors going around that Green Bay were going to draft Brooks Reed and team him up with Hawk and Matthews, because good teams like to accumulate depth and talent.

If Kareem and Allen continue to develop under Wade's system, who's to say we can't have Mario be a part of our linebacking core, while attempting to plug other holes through the draft?

Eventually, Brooks - if he continues to improve at this pace - will command big money, are we going to throw him aside too then?

4x4tx
11-14-2011, 06:10 PM
Dump marios salary and use it for a legit WR and another lockdown corner. No way we should burn 20 million for mario when we havent missed a beat and one could argue we have actually gotten better.

kingh99
11-14-2011, 08:05 PM
Dump marios salary and use it for a legit WR and another lockdown corner. No way we should burn 20 million for mario when we havent missed a beat and one could argue we have actually gotten better.


They have been more effective in coverage and balanced in the way they collapse the pocket and get to the QB since Reed stepped in. They have definitely been a better defense the last two weeks with Reed in there. Mario looks like depth or trade bait at this point. Of course we know how hard it is to stay healthy with this team so it's looking like depth.

BSofA04
11-27-2011, 11:03 PM
6 games started, 6 sacks, breaking Okoye's rookie sack record of 5.5 with 5 games to go!!! Way to go Brooks!