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srrono
11-05-2011, 06:11 PM
At approximately 9:30 p.m. on March 1, 2002, a Penn State graduate assistant entered what should have been an empty football locker room. He was surprised to hear the showers running and noises he thought sounded like sexual activity, according to a Pennsylvania grand jury “finding of fact” released Saturday.

When he looked in the shower he saw what he estimated to be a 10-year-old boy, hands pressed up against the wall, “being subjected to anal intercourse,” by Jerry Sandusky, then 58 and Penn State’s former defensive coordinator. The grad assistant said both the boy and the coach saw him before he fled to his office where, distraught and stunned, the grad assistant telephoned his father, who instructed his son to flee the building.

Full Story below
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-wetzel_penn_state_child_sex_case_110511

Thsi is one of the most disturbing stories I have ever seen. To cover all this up, Heads need to roll.

A lot of info about the scandal

http://deadspin.com/penn-state-scandal/

ArlingtonTexan
11-05-2011, 06:45 PM
I have no idea what I would do if I had kids and found out that a dude this to him or her. Just don't know how more of these guys don't end up dead.

texanhead08
11-05-2011, 06:52 PM
This is just more ammo to make Joe Pa retire. This is just sick and the fact that every one at the univeristy tried to cover it up is criminal They all need to lose their jobs and the tax payers of that state should be livid.

Vinny
11-05-2011, 07:08 PM
This is a case about a sexual predator who used his position within the university and community to repeatedly prey on young boys,” attorney general Linda Kelly said. “It is also a case about high-ranking university officials who allegedly failed to report the sexual assault of a young boy after the information was brought to their attention, and later made false statements to a grand jury that was investigating a series of assaults on young boys.”

It is actually even more than that, a stomach-turning 23-page grand jury report that could be the ugliest scandal in the history of college athletics.


Jerry Sandusky sits in a car as he leaves the office of Centre County Magisterial District Judge Leslie A. Dutchcot on Saturday.
(AP)
The failure of Penn State officials to call in the proper authorities potentially allowed the alleged sexual predator to live free for an additional nine-and-a-half years.

This case demands answers to deep and troubling questions right up the chain of command at Penn State, including Spanier and the legendary Paterno.

Instead, thus far, all we’ve gotten is a pathetic statement from Spanier who quite incredibly deemed Sandusky’s charges as merely “troubling” (and said little more) and then expressed continued support for Curley and Schultz.

“The allegations about a former coach are troubling, and it is appropriate that they be investigated thoroughly,” the statement read. “Protecting children requires the utmost vigilance … I wish to say that Tim Curley and Gary Schultz have my unconditional support.”

Really, that’s it? That’s what the guy who is running Penn State has to say? That’s all he thought was appropriate?
Reading this article is very disturbing. I lost all respect for Penn State...just like that.

Vinny
11-05-2011, 07:12 PM
More importantly, Spanier needs to be immediately removed from an authority position since his culpability is tied to Curley. After all, Spanier both knew of the allegations against Sandusky and approved of Curley’s handling of the case.

That includes an act almost unfathomable in its insensitivity. According to the attorney general, no one at Penn State ever tried to find the boy. At worst, he was raped in a shower. At best, according to testimony that law enforcement finds non-credible, he was either “horsing around” with or being “inappropriately grabbed” by an old man in an empty locker room.

Yet no one thought they should go find the kid so he and his family could get proper help or further protection. Not even the university president?

“Despite a powerful eyewitness statement about the sexual assault of a child, this incident was not reported to any law enforcement or child protective agency, as required by Pennsylvania law,” said Kelly, the attorney general. “Additionally, there is no indication that anyone from the university ever attempted to learn the identity of the child.”

How? How could all these people of power, people of education, people of authority simply look the other way? And how could Graham Spanier maintain a level of arrogance to release that statement on this day? more stuff...more disgust.

Honoring Earl 34
11-05-2011, 08:34 PM
more stuff...more disgust.

Dude ... it's gonna get real ugly . They enabled a child molestor cause he could coach defense .

foo82
11-05-2011, 08:44 PM
Well...

Gives a new meaning to his book.

http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry-Sandusky-Story/dp/1582612706

srrono
11-05-2011, 09:05 PM
He adopted 6 children. He also took in foster children.

Could be a lot of victims.

Vinny
11-05-2011, 09:24 PM
Dude ... it's gonna get real ugly . They enabled a child molestor cause he could coach defense .
are these guys Catholic?
Well...

Gives a new meaning to his book.

http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry-Sandusky-Story/dp/1582612706 oh man, that's rough. :kubepalm:

NitroGSXR
11-05-2011, 09:37 PM
Everybody needs to die... including the grad student and his father. Eff them all. You could not pay me enough money to turn a blind eye to a ten year old getting anally raped. Douse them all with gasoline and let them burn. Sick mother****ers.

srrono
11-05-2011, 10:15 PM
With this happening, What else in the college world has been covered up.

jaayteetx
11-05-2011, 10:36 PM
Wow...holy crap.

srrono
11-06-2011, 11:27 AM
A lot of info about the scandal

http://deadspin.com/penn-state-scandal/

Honoring Earl 34
11-06-2011, 11:35 AM
A lot of info about the scandal

http://deadspin.com/penn-state-scandal/

There goes Joe Paterno's legacy .

srrono
11-06-2011, 12:06 PM
There goes Joe Paterno's legacy .

if you read the grand jury report you see this guy could have been stoped by dozens of people multiple times. was caught in showers by 2 different people on separate events. Teachers and coaches seeing him having unatural connection to young boys. Kids told mothers who ddnt stop it, maybe he paid them off. Its crazy this guy was just doing whatever he wanted even when people knew the did nothing about it.

Honoring Earl 34
11-06-2011, 12:28 PM
if you read the grand jury report you see this guy could have been stoped by dozens of people multiple times. was caught in showers by 2 different people on separate events. Teachers and coaches seeing him having unatural connection to young boys. Kids told mothers who ddnt stop it, maybe he paid them off. Its crazy this guy was just doing whatever he wanted even when people knew the did nothing about it.

Just an unbelievable story .

TexanSam
11-06-2011, 12:29 PM
Used to be a Penn State fan. Not after this. Everybody who had any role in this needs to be fired, even Joe Paterno. This is absolutely f'ing disgusting. I hope Sandusky gets what's coming to him.

Honoring Earl 34
11-06-2011, 12:51 PM
Used to be a Penn State fan. Not after this. Everybody who had any role in this needs to be fired, even Joe Paterno. This is absolutely f'ing disgusting. I hope Sandusky gets what's coming to him.

Ol' Joe is going to cost Penn State mega bucks . He'll be lucky if he gets to walk out of there and live happily ever after .

jgl35
11-06-2011, 03:30 PM
As a Penn State grad, I can't beleive what is going on up there.
All the good done in the program with grad rates in sports and the idea that this was one on the best programs in the country to send a kid, all being washed away.
Like it or not, college sports puts a public face on a shcool for others to see who know nothing about the place.
This HURTS.

Honoring Earl 34
11-06-2011, 03:46 PM
As a Penn State grad, I can't beleive what is going on up there.
All the good done in the program with grad rates in sports and the idea that this was one on the best programs in the country to send a kid, all being washed away.
Like it or not, college sports puts a public face on a shcool for others to see who know nothing about the place.
This HURTS.

I just can't imagine seeing a grown man having sex with a 10 year old and not making sure he's under the jail .

toronto
11-07-2011, 06:29 AM
This is beyond infuriating.

How the **** Joe Paterno hasn't already resigned is a god damn disgrace. How the AD could actually attempt to sweep this under the rug makes my blood boil.

This program doesn't deserve the death penalty, the individuals may need it.

toronto
11-07-2011, 06:31 AM
There goes Joe Paterno's legacy .

**** his legacy.

His new legacy? I swept rape and molesting kids under the rug and am going straight to hell.

Honoring Earl 34
11-07-2011, 08:30 AM
This is beyond infuriating.

How the **** Joe Paterno hasn't already resigned is a god damn disgrace. How the AD could actually attempt to sweep this under the rug makes my blood boil.

This program doesn't deserve the death penalty, the individuals may need it.

**** his legacy.

His new legacy? I swept rape and molesting kids under the rug and am going straight to hell.

The whole things strange and maybe this is why Joe tried to hang in there so long . He was trying to make sure the monster stayed locked in the basement which is a tad short of the act itself .

In one of the articles it said that Paterno told Sandusky that he wasn't the heir to the head coaching job in 1999 . I have to think it was because Joe knew he was having sex with 10 year old boys . Sandusky hid in broad daylight and they looked the other way .

toronto
11-07-2011, 08:56 AM
The whole things strange and maybe this is why Joe tried to hang in there so long . He was trying to make sure the monster stayed locked in the basement which is a tad short of the act itself .

In one of the articles it said that Paterno told Sandusky that he wasn't the heir to the head coaching job in 1999 . I have to think it was because Joe knew he was having sex with 10 year old boys . Sandusky hid in broad daylight and they looked the other way .

There is no frigging way Paterno didn't know. There is no way this program shouldn't be completely shut down and given the SMU treatment or even worse.

This is a frigging disgrace of epic proportions.

NitroGSXR
11-07-2011, 09:00 AM
The whole things strange and maybe this is why Joe tried to hang in there so long . He was trying to make sure the monster stayed locked in the basement which is a tad short of the act itself .

In one of the articles it said that Paterno told Sandusky that he wasn't the heir to the head coaching job in 1999 . I have to think it was because Joe knew he was having sex with 10 year old boys . Sandusky hid in broad daylight and they looked the other way .

Joe Paterno needs to die a horrible death. To hell with their logic and all. Burn mother****ers. Just burn...

IDEXAN
11-07-2011, 09:06 AM
I think he's still got friends in high-places in PA because his bond was reportedly only 100 K, which is probably really not that much money for somebody like this guy ? Plus he's gotta be a "flight-Risk" ?

Honoring Earl 34
11-07-2011, 10:07 AM
Joe Paterno needs to die a horrible death. To hell with their logic and all. Burn mother****ers. Just burn...

If I'm an ex or current PSU player , I'm bathing in chlorox today .

gwallaia
11-07-2011, 12:07 PM
There is no frigging way Paterno didn't know. There is no way this program shouldn't be completely shut down and given the SMU treatment or even worse.

This is a frigging disgrace of epic proportions.

If the allegations are true and there are convictions, then I think the "Death Penalty" for Penn State football would be in order. But somehow I believe, the Penn State football will not get the SMU treatment. It may not be right, but I bet it would not happen.

srrono
11-07-2011, 12:13 PM
I have a 12 yr old son . Every time I hear this I think of the emotional damage these kids went thru. A man they thought highly of abused them then everyone in the community abused them again by keeping quiet. A high school janitor staff caught him in the act a collge staff caught him in the act and a mother was informed by her son after being curious why her sons hair was wet. This charity org he was a part of worked with troubled kids im assuming with these kids thier parents were easily paid off due to drug abuse or social standing and the charity worked with special needs kids, kids that mentally werent able to speak out about what was happening. I have 4 children 21yr old son - 12 yr old son - 8 yr old daughter - 5 yr old son. And this may sound bad or sheltering but my kids have never stayed the night at another adults home period. I dont let them go on trips. I dont trust anything Church events, Cub scout events I dont let my children out of my sight because these days as soon as you let down your gaurd your children suffer. Sorry about the long Rant.

toronto
11-07-2011, 12:17 PM
If the allegations are true and there are convictions, then I think the "Death Penalty" for Penn State football would be in order. But somehow I believe, the Penn State football will not get the SMU treatment. It may not be right, but I bet it would not happen.

As much as I have a lot of disdain for the NCAA on how they handle issues like this, they're not going to let a program pull this off and survive. They can't be associated with a school that tried to sweep child molestation by a coach under the rug at ALL LEVELS, including the AD.

This is way worse than point shaving, paying athletes or any other typical issue that has cost programs in the past. This is beyond repulsive and undefendable.

Hookem Horns
11-07-2011, 12:33 PM
are these guys Catholic?
oh man, that's rough. :kubepalm:

Surprised this is Penn State and not Notre Dame.

Vinny
11-07-2011, 01:17 PM
anyone hear about Kalie Wong's story about Joe Pa? A couple of years back Wong stated that a player told him that Joe Paterno used to go into the team shower naked, take a shower with them and SCRUB THE BACKS OF SOME OF THE PLAYERS. Not making this up. Ask Lance Z.

at the very least this is creepy, creepy stuff.....it also makes one think that he may be a sicko too. Those types hide in plain view.

Hookem Horns
11-07-2011, 01:26 PM
This should be the next chapter of the story ...

At approximately 6:30 a.m. on March 1, 2012, Big Bubba Wilson heard the showers running at a Pennsylvania State Prison. When he looked in the shower he saw what he estimated to be a 68-year-old man who looked ready to be his next victim ...

srrono
11-07-2011, 02:27 PM
anyone hear about Kalie Wong's story about Joe Pa? A couple of years back Wong stated that a player told him that Joe Paterno used to go into the team shower naked, take a shower with them and SCRUB THE BACKS OF SOME OF THE PLAYERS. Not making this up. Ask Lance Z.

at the very least this is creepy, creepy stuff.....it also makes one think that he may be a sicko too. Those types hide in plain view.

is there a link to the story so i can read it?

Vinny
11-07-2011, 02:52 PM
is there a link to the story so i can read it?
probably on a podcast from this morning. The original story was told two years ago but Lance was talking about it this morning.

PsychoLove
11-07-2011, 02:54 PM
probably on a podcast from this morning. The original story was told two years ago but Lance was talking about it this morning.

Sick stuff!

BigBull17
11-07-2011, 03:13 PM
No amount of pay for play can come near this. This is a sick stroy and if ever there was a time to strike down a program it's this one. Totally sick and disgusting. If the NCAA doesn't feel the need to do the right thing, I believe I may never watch a college game again.

Honoring Earl 34
11-07-2011, 03:16 PM
anyone hear about Kalie Wong's story about Joe Pa? A couple of years back Wong stated that a player told him that Joe Paterno used to go into the team shower naked, take a shower with them and SCRUB THE BACKS OF SOME OF THE PLAYERS. Not making this up. Ask Lance Z.

at the very least this is creepy, creepy stuff.....it also makes one think that he may be a sicko too. Those types hide in plain view.

and people were worried about women reporters in the locker room .

Honoring Earl 34
11-07-2011, 05:30 PM
I don't know if y'all have seen this but you can't make this stuff up . This is disgusting .

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf?sct=hp_t11_a9

toronto
11-07-2011, 05:40 PM
I don't know if y'all have seen this but you can't make this stuff up . This is disgusting .

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf?sct=hp_t11_a9

My network (www.sportsnet.ca) had a legal analyst on that suggests the PSU program will not suffer a SMU-like fate, and that Paterno is likely not subject to criminal investigation. The university itself, its president and AD, on the other hand, could face both a ton of class action suits as well as criminal charges, some severe.

Not to mention the fact that no recruit that has any self respect will ever want to play there again, knowing this now. One way or another, PSU football is going to die and deservedly so. Those cocksuckers let little several, maybe dozens of ****ing kids get molested and tried to sweep it under the rug like rats. I hope they rot in hell.

Dutchrudder
11-07-2011, 05:45 PM
Is Penn State a Catholic school?


:kitten:

HTown2ATX
11-07-2011, 06:12 PM
Everybody needs to die... including the grad student and his father. Eff them all. You could not pay me enough money to turn a blind eye to a ten year old getting anally raped. Douse them all with gasoline and let them burn. Sick mother****ers.

I would gladly help you perform this relief on society Nitro.

I would elect a woodchipper or something like that......maybe we could divide them up?

One for me, one for you, one for me, one for you.......

Hookem Horns
11-07-2011, 06:32 PM
I don't know if y'all have seen this but you can't make this stuff up . This is disgusting .

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf?sct=hp_t11_a9

Nice to see that Sandusky was looking after spiritual interest of the boy and was taking him to church.

Rey
11-07-2011, 06:44 PM
I seriously want to throw up or at the very least spit...

Rey
11-07-2011, 06:46 PM
anyone hear about Kalie Wong's story about Joe Pa? A couple of years back Wong stated that a player told him that Joe Paterno used to go into the team shower naked, take a shower with them and SCRUB THE BACKS OF SOME OF THE PLAYERS. Not making this up. Ask Lance Z.

at the very least this is creepy, creepy stuff.....it also makes one think that he may be a sicko too. Those types hide in plain view.


Joe Paterno must recruit sicko weirdo players too because if my coach ever stripped down to his b-day suit and tried to scrub my back in the shower we'd have a few issues...Well...I wouldn't but he would have...

It's weird enough that he'd take showers with them...But scrub their backs? That's just O.C....

Vinny
11-07-2011, 07:55 PM
I don't know if y'all have seen this but you can't make this stuff up . This is disgusting .

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf?sct=hp_t11_a9
wow, this is even worse than I thought...and I thought it was repulsive. this document listed 8 victims and all of them had stories similar to this one. Looks like nobody cared and everyone let the boys down. Even the janitors kept it under wraps since they didn't want to lose their jobs. No character at all, top to bottom at this University I guess. I took a snippet...
“In the fall of 2000, a janitor named James “Jim” Calhoun observed Sandusky in the showers of the Lasch Building with a young boy pinned up against the wall, performing oral sex on the boy. He immediately made known to the other janitorial staff what he had just witnessed."

TexanSam
11-08-2011, 12:43 AM
Every time I read something more about this I'm just more disgusted. It's ****ing ridiculous that so many officials at Penn State turned a blind eye towards this because he could coach football. Sick ****ing people.

ArlingtonTexan
11-08-2011, 10:11 AM
I have a 12 yr old son . Every time I hear this I think of the emotional damage these kids went thru. A man they thought highly of abused them then everyone in the community abused them again by keeping quiet. A high school janitor staff caught him in the act a collge staff caught him in the act and a mother was informed by her son after being curious why her sons hair was wet. This charity org he was a part of worked with troubled kids im assuming with these kids thier parents were easily paid off due to drug abuse or social standing and the charity worked with special needs kids, kids that mentally werent able to speak out about what was happening. I have 4 children 21yr old son - 12 yr old son - 8 yr old daughter - 5 yr old son. And this may sound bad or sheltering but my kids have never stayed the night at another adults home period. I dont let them go on trips. I dont trust anything Church events, Cub scout events I dont let my children out of my sight because these days as soon as you let down your gaurd your children suffer. Sorry about the long Rant.

Don't apologize for that rant. I know I can count on my hand the number of non-relatives houses I stayed as a kid. and most of those were when I was a teenager with guys who had sat and had multiple conversations with my Dad. My dad had a life-long single male friend that I was never allowed to be at his house more than hour or so alone. I could go on and on about some the limitiations that my parentplaced to protect me, but You get the point. I told my wife about your post and she agreed that we would closer to your attitude than not if we had children.

The1ApplePie
11-08-2011, 10:45 AM
Not a death penalty guy, but people that do this to kids need the ole draw-and-quarter

This is some Marquis de Sade shit right here.

ArlingtonTexan
11-08-2011, 11:47 AM
So Penn State can't even put their faces on in front of the media canceling a weekly press conference.

toronto
11-08-2011, 11:56 AM
So Penn State can't even put their faces on in front of the media canceling a weekly press conference.

Well they've been liars and cowards this entire time, why change now?

Vinny
11-08-2011, 12:24 PM
Paterno resigning in disgrace

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html

Honoring Earl 34
11-08-2011, 12:25 PM
Well they've been liars and cowards this entire time, why change now?

I wouldn't give the program the death penalty because the players of the past , present , students and alumni didn't do anything wrong . I would change everything about it and start all over . Joe P , Sandusky , and the rest of the heehaw gang would be erased .

Honoring Earl 34
11-08-2011, 12:47 PM
More on a bad situation .

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d823e9199/article/report-penn-state-planning-coach-paternos-exit?module=HP11_breaking_news

TimeKiller
11-08-2011, 01:38 PM
Wow. I just heard about this....undescribably horrific act.

Guy is going to jail. They best be GOOD friends because everyone who swept it under the rug is going to jail too. As far as Paterno goes, if he knew and didn't have that shell of a human being arrested....he may as well be in there raping children as well. They're all going to know what rape in the shower is all about. If they're lucky and I mean REALLY lucky, they'll be beaten to death by the other prisoners BEFORE they "commit suicide in their cells".

HTown2ATX
11-08-2011, 02:06 PM
I have a 12 yr old son . Every time I hear this I think of the emotional damage these kids went thru. A man they thought highly of abused them then everyone in the community abused them again by keeping quiet. A high school janitor staff caught him in the act a collge staff caught him in the act and a mother was informed by her son after being curious why her sons hair was wet. This charity org he was a part of worked with troubled kids im assuming with these kids thier parents were easily paid off due to drug abuse or social standing and the charity worked with special needs kids, kids that mentally werent able to speak out about what was happening. I have 4 children 21yr old son - 12 yr old son - 8 yr old daughter - 5 yr old son. And this may sound bad or sheltering but my kids have never stayed the night at another adults home period. I dont let them go on trips. I dont trust anything Church events, Cub scout events I dont let my children out of my sight because these days as soon as you let down your gaurd your children suffer. Sorry about the long Rant.

No need for apologies man. I have a 5 year old turning 6 in 2 months and I am a fuqng hawk with her. Anyone glances at her funny or gets to close to her in line at the store and I'm already in neck snapper mode. I typically hit the old rant on stuff like this too, but I am trying to stop myself here as my rants on this stuff make me look like a sadistic murderer beneath my skin on what I would do slowly and gleefully to these sick fuqs.

I also agree with you about not letting kids out of sight. I remember when I was a kid (I'm 30 so growing up for me was late 80's to mid 90's) I was able to go out, play, whatever, be at home when the street lights come on. Nowadays that just seems insane. I simply cannot invision letting my daughter just go play and be a kid like we used to. I've had other parents disagree and think that times are mostly the same as before, we just hear about it more due to the new era of media, but I disagree. To each his own and more power to any parent who is more laid back than me on stuff like this, and I don't watch the news so I know that is not what is effecting me. I'm sorry, my daughter will not be able to shake me until she is a teenager and I can teach her where and how to hit, use a knife and where to thrust and cut, etc.

Anyway, now I want to rant but I'll stop....point is I agree and this is just putrid what has happened here. May this guy be fuqed by goats in hell for all eternity.

gary
11-08-2011, 02:08 PM
We do not know what Joe knew or did not know but yet we are ready to crucify him. It was reported that he told his supervisors after being alerted. Why not go to the cops? I don't know but it is weird that Joe was ready and willing to talk this morning but the university chickened out. Something deeply wrong has occurred without any doubt but it just seems to me like people are willing to just rake others over the coals before the eggs have hatched. The story is very sick and sad and there will be heck to pay in the end but let's let the investigation conclude and the final report come out then do the raking itself.

Vinny
11-08-2011, 02:21 PM
We do not know what Joe knew or did not know but yet we are ready to crucify him. It was reported that he told his supervisors after being alerted. Why not go to the cops? I don't know but it is weird that Joe was ready and willing to talk this morning but the university chickened out. Something deeply wrong has occurred without any doubt but it just seems to me like people are willing to just rake others over the coals before the eggs have hatched. The story is very sick and sad and there will be heck to pay in the end but let's let the investigation conclude and the final report come out then do the raking itself.

I'm not exactly ready to execute Paterno either. Maybe he was going to leave SI the university is trying to make him a scapegoat. I want to hear what he honestly knew about this. Now, I understand why he didn't say anything if he knew but it doesn't make it right. That said the coach isn't a police officer.If one of your coaches is giving 10 year old kids blowJ's and anal sex in your locker room....he knows. NO way he didn't know. I refuse to believe nobody told him details...no friggin' way. Chain of command isn't an excuse for covering up criminal behavior...especially with kids. Paterno should go to jail.

srrono
11-08-2011, 02:35 PM
What Joe knew or did not know really? Can anyone seriously say Joe didnt know, I mean what ever he was told he thought was important enough to alert his superiors and hide from authorities so it wouldnt hurt image of program. The legal system may not get all these people who turned a blind eye to this situation. After this plays out there will be some major money paid out by Penn State and all involved. Penn State should demolish the shower room and rebuild it too.

gary
11-08-2011, 02:37 PM
How come when Paterno went to the home of his director nothing was done? I am going to wait this out before pleading the guilty for all. Everyone has a right to tell their own side of the story more and more these days I see people being guilty first and innocent later or they are forever guilty even after their day in court.

HTown2ATX
11-08-2011, 02:41 PM
Penn State should demolish the shower room and rebuild it too.

^^^^^THIS

I thought about this too....if I was a player my skin would crawl going in there right now. Unfortuately due to some of the graphic descriptions of the shower episode my mind'e eye is all fuqed up right now and any time I would go in that shower would be haunting if I was a player on that team.

gary
11-08-2011, 02:42 PM
What Joe knew or did not know really? Can anyone seriously say Joe didnt know, I mean what ever he was told he thought was important enough to alert his superiors and hide from authorities so it wouldnt hurt image of program. The legal system may not get all these people who turned a blind eye to this situation. After this plays out there will be some major money paid out by Penn State and all involved. Penn State should demolish the shower room and rebuild it too.Then, where were THEY?

JCTexan
11-08-2011, 02:45 PM
We do not know what Joe knew or did not know but yet we are ready to crucify him. It was reported that he told his supervisors after being alerted. Why not go to the cops? I don't know but it is weird that Joe was ready and willing to talk this morning but the university chickened out. Something deeply wrong has occurred without any doubt but it just seems to me like people are willing to just rake others over the coals before the eggs have hatched. The story is very sick and sad and there will be heck to pay in the end but let's let the investigation conclude and the final report come out then do the raking itself.

Joe Paterno knew about it and took it to Penn State's athletic director. It seems like everyone took it to the 'higher up' in the university and everyone failed to notified the police. I honestly don't understand why this wasn't taken to the cops. Paterno, Curley, the grad student, the janitors, etc.. Someone should have gotten the cops involved here.

Paterno notified athletic director Tim Curley --fulfilling his legal responsibility -- but not law-enforcement authorities. Curley, charged with felony perjury and failing to report an alleged sex charge involving children, was arraigned Monday and released after posting bail.

While Paterno appears to be out of the woods legally, other key Penn State officials are facing action or could face action in the future. Asked Monday whether university president Graham Spanier is a target, Kelly said, "This is an ongoing investigation."

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/37887/ag-joepa-not-a-target-but-school-negligent

Honoring Earl 34
11-08-2011, 02:51 PM
Then, where were THEY?

Joe Paterno knew about it and took it to Penn State's athletic director. It seems like everyone took it to the 'higher up' in the university and everyone failed to notified the police. I honestly don't understand why this wasn't taken to the cops. Paterno, Curley, the grad student, the janitors, etc.. Someone should have gotten the cops involved here.



http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/37887/ag-joepa-not-a-target-but-school-negligent

The AD and the president turned theirselves in .

To me Paterno enabled Sandusky from the minute he found out by not calling the police . What you except you condone and the fact that he was still running that foundation reeks of something much bigger .

gary
11-08-2011, 02:59 PM
Joe Paterno knew about it and took it to Penn State's athletic director. It seems like everyone took it to the 'higher up' in the university and everyone failed to notified the police. I honestly don't understand why this wasn't taken to the cops. Paterno, Curley, the grad student, the janitors, etc.. Someone should have gotten the cops involved here.



http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/37887/ag-joepa-not-a-target-but-school-negligentAnd, why didn't the director do anything? Except for the grad student we are just guessing that everyone knew the specifics about what was going on. They all reported it and probably all had faith the people who held more power than them was going to do the right thing.

srrono
11-08-2011, 03:06 PM
This is not brain surgery. This was a cover up. They swept it under the rug trying to keep Penn State out of the Headlines.

Vinny
11-08-2011, 03:07 PM
Then, where were THEY?
who cares? Gary, if I ran a football program and someone was abusing you, do you think your Mom would think it is ok if I just told my boss and didn't contact the police?

Vinny
11-08-2011, 03:09 PM
You're trying to preach to me like I would care what you believe. All I ask is to interrogate him. I guess it's better for all of us to jump to conclusions. I forgot in this country, you are guilty until proven innocent. People will also think I'm siding with PSU.
I don't preach. Besides, I already know you are a bit of a degenerate since you thought kicking a puppy and killing him was kind funny. You lost most of your credibility with me without even trying pards.

80tothezone
11-08-2011, 03:11 PM
Everybody needs to die... including the grad student and his father. Eff them all. You could not pay me enough money to turn a blind eye to a ten year old getting anally raped. Douse them all with gasoline and let them burn. Sick mother****ers.

this

80tothezone
11-08-2011, 03:15 PM
And, why didn't the director do anything? Except for the grad student we are just guessing that everyone knew the specifics about what was going on. They all reported it and probably all had faith the people who held more power than them was going to do the right thing.

you call 911 end of story... how the grad student didn't beat the old man to within an inch of his worthless life is beyond me.... sick sack of shit...

srrono
11-08-2011, 03:20 PM
you call 911 end of story... how the grad student didn't beat the old man to within an inch of his worthless life is beyond me.... sick sack of shit...

What else is going on at Penn that the instinct of this grad student is to keep this info in the fold of Penn state, instead of calling the police automaticly I mean it seems to point to a pattern of corruption or secrets. PENN STATE chose to protect itself instead of the kids.

TimeKiller
11-08-2011, 03:23 PM
If I'm an ex or current PSU player , I'm bathing in chlorox today .

If I'm a current player, I tell Penn State you can still pay for the rest of my education at _______ University but I won't play another down for this school.

gary
11-08-2011, 03:33 PM
I would have called because that is just who I am but I would have just done the right thing just by telling school authorities. I still have respect for Joe and feel people are jumping the gun without all the facts.

Honoring Earl 34
11-08-2011, 03:43 PM
What else is going on at Penn that the instinct of this grad student is to keep this info in the fold of Penn state, instead of calling the police automaticly I mean it seems to point to a pattern of corruption or secrets. PENN STATE chose to protect itself instead of the kids.

I think as a 23 year old I would have saw it and gathered myself because I wouldn't have believed it . As the realization set in I would have done something .

HTown2ATX
11-08-2011, 03:49 PM
I think as a 23 year old I would have saw it and gathered myself because I wouldn't have believed it . As the realization set in I would have done something .

I have a instant powder keg non-fuse when I happen across crazy stuff that needs immediate action and I tend not to think. Obviously I have never come across something like this, but I know myself, and I suspect I would have grabbed the closest hard object and procedd to beat his brains in....quite literally....and hoped that since I walked in on it, plus the kids testimony...would keep me out of prison.

gary
11-08-2011, 03:53 PM
Can't we at least hear what Joe has to say or do we just not care that much? I think we can.

Vinny
11-08-2011, 03:54 PM
I would have called because that is just who I am but I would have just done the right thing just by telling school authorities. I still have respect for Joe and feel people are jumping the gun without all the facts.That's not the right thing. That's the corporate thing. Protecting brand image isn't more important than protecting the children.

JCTexan
11-08-2011, 03:59 PM
Can't we at least hear what Joe has to say or do we just not care that much? I think we can.

He already said he took it to the athletic director. Let's not act like he didn't know about any of it.

ArlingtonTexan
11-08-2011, 04:00 PM
I would have called because that is just who I am but I would have just done the right thing just by telling school authorities. I still have respect for Joe and feel people are jumping the gun without all the facts.

A large part of the issue is that Paterno has been for 50 years, not just been portrayed as a great football coach, but as one of the best men ever. He ran his program the "right way" graduating students and giving back huge sums of money to Penn State.

So when it came down to the saint of a man who literally has images built in his honor having to make a tough decision on how to proceed, what did he do?

The absolute minimium which legally covers his rearend. (We do know this). Turns out that guy who was held up as someone to emulate repeatedly was at the end of the day in a really tough moment, no different than just some other guy. ...doing no more than he had to do.

Vinny
11-08-2011, 04:05 PM
No we will burn him at the stake. I think many posters here are parents and therefore are thinking about this like it involves their children. I am not burdened by the role of being a parent. If Joe did fulfill his responsibility by notifying his superior then I don't understand the irrational urge to legally punish him if he did fulfill his legal responsibility. I'm not saying he shouldn't have called the police or should but in this situation. Going above his responsibility of calling the police is a personal choice. A choice he has to live with. Personal shame is more damaging than what any of these members could hope for.
says a lot about you that you think this way. I'd watch out for kids outside of my own...hell, the kid I take care of isn't my kid. It's another Man's kid. If I saw a rape, murder, child porn or any harmful act to another human being I'd do my part as a human being and do the right thing. Contacting your boss and then nothing happening after the fact isn't the right friggin' thing. That's low character stuff.

gary
11-08-2011, 04:05 PM
That's not the right thing. That's the corporate thing. Protecting brand image isn't more important than protecting the children.They were not protecting brand image and all the right people will pay the piper big time for this and that day I can't wait to see occur.

Vinny
11-08-2011, 04:07 PM
They were not protecting brand image and all the right people will pay the piper big time for this and that day I can't wait to see occur.
dude, you are in total denial. They protected the Penn St brand....it was more important than having a scandal and saving more kids from the same fate. By not saying anything to the Police it helped him secure MORE VICTIMS. It was all about protecting the image/brand of the football program.

Vinny
11-08-2011, 04:12 PM
You may take as many personal shots at me as you like. What he did was the right thing according to the law because that was where his legal responsibility ends. Legally he did what he had to do. Unless the law doesn't matter then there shouldn't be one.
You better hope you don't need help one day and someone like you is the only person who is watching.

HTown2ATX
11-08-2011, 04:17 PM
Legally he did what he had to do. Unless the law doesn't matter then there shouldn't be one.

Dude, I see what you are saying on the one hand as far as letter of the law, however, I would hope that you would also take the responsibility to make sure light was shined on the issue on your own if that is what was needed.

We're not talking about covering up free gifts or tattoos or prostitues for players....we're talking about children being raped.

And I know you're not crazy about kids as you posted earlier either in this thread or the one about the dog booter, but still, just as a human, the fact this was kids getting raped in real life, not on SVU (which I can't even watch the ones involving kids anymore), should move anyone to take action.

It's that basic man. (just using you to make my point, not a personal shot)

gary
11-08-2011, 04:18 PM
dude, you are in total denial. They protected the Penn St brand....it was more important than having a scandal and saving more kids from the same fate. By not saying anything to the Police it helped him secure MORE VICTIMS. It was all about protecting the image/brand of the football program.The bosses who just sat back did protect the brand. Blame them they SAT BACK. Not everyone goes to the cops nor is it required.

Vinny
11-08-2011, 04:20 PM
The bosses who just sat back did protect the brand. Blame them they SAT BACK. Not everyone goes to the cops nor is it required.
Joe Paterno is just the same as the others who didn't act Gary. Paterno WAS THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM...those guys worked for him as much as he worked under him. You aren't a morally decent man if kids are getting raped anally and orally under your nose. Sadly I'm ashamed you think this way.

Showtime100
11-08-2011, 04:21 PM
Earlier when I got home I tuned into ESPN and the first thing I saw was Matt Millen shedding tears while trying to talk about this mess. Up until today I hadn't read much on this whole thing, but now I know why he was crying.

I've read through the years, maybe an article here, a few years later an article there, about how Penn State will go to great lengths to guard their players when they get in trouble with the law, how they get away with being complete social thorns towards the student body in general (beating students up...etc....etc) on campus and Paterno would always turn a blind eye.

I guess that goes for everyone in the program and a simple aggravated assault on a student was just the tip of the iceberg to what they would do to protect their scholarships and standing in the NCAA community.

This story is too horrible to even comprehend at this point. Speaking of iceberg tips, I have a feeling when we see what's under the surface Paterno will..........I don't even know. This is going to get so ugly it boggles the mind.

gary
11-08-2011, 04:27 PM
He already said he took it to the athletic director. Let's not act like he didn't know about any of it.Where did I say that? Read the thread let's not put words in the mouth of others either.

ArlingtonTexan
11-08-2011, 04:29 PM
The bosses who just sat back did protect the brand. Blame them they SAT BACK. Not everyone goes to the cops nor is it required.

Joe Paterno is more a boss at Penn State than any person every at that institution. There are people with titles that sound more important than him, but he is as close to being a singular representative of the university than any other person to any other institution in the country.

HTown2ATX
11-08-2011, 04:37 PM
This is going to get so ugly it boggles the mind.

Exactly. They found vic #9 and who knows how many more will come out now (and I'm sure unfortunately some will be fraudulent trying to get some $$ on what will surely be a mammoth law suit) but this will get way, way ugly.

For those of us not Penn St fans trying to debate what should or shouldn't happen to Joe Pa., I offer the opinion of my dad, who is from Pittsburgh and is a die hard anything Pittsburgh and/or surrounding area so college wise he is a a life long Penn St and Pitt fan.

That said, even he believes Joe had to have known more than is revealed right now and that basically he needs to be gone as of yesterday/immediately and that the University needs to be spanked hard.

Which I agree with, Joe has blood on his hands morally if not legally and believe me I am not the moral police. This situation will and rightfully should tarnish him.

(To head anyone off, I understand my dad's opinion has not actual relevance on the matter other than to offer a true Penn States fan on the situation and that is all.)

CLTEXAN_FAN
11-08-2011, 04:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX9MCkbirdE&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL78BB1C264D8076AD

An interview from a few years back...start watching at the 3:30 mark where he starts talking about his foundation. Really pay attention to his quote at 4:09.

What rope was he talking about....prison will take care of him.

Vinny
11-08-2011, 04:49 PM
There can be little doubt that Paterno has known since at least 1998 that Sandusky had a “problem” with “inappropriate behavior” toward children, i.e., he was a child molester. That’s when the campus police did a six-week investigation after a mother reported to them that her 11-year-old son had showered with Sandusky. From the grand jury report:

The mother of Victim 6 confronted Sandusky about showering with her son, the effect it had had on her son, whether Sandusky had sexual feelings when he hugged her naked son in the shower, and where Victim 6′s buttocks were when Sandusky hugged him in the shower. Sandusky said he had showered with other boys and Victim 6′s mother tried to make him promise never to shower with a boy again but he would not. She asked him if his “private parts” had touched Victim 6 when he bear-hugged him. Sandusky replied, “I don’t know . . . maybe.” At the conclusion of the second conversation, after Sandusky was told he could not see Victim 6 any more, Sandusky said, “I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won’t get it from you. I wish I were dead.”

This conversation, in which Sandusky in effect admits that there are other victims, and even refuses to say he’ll stop victimizing children, was surreptitiously observed by a PSU police detective, who was then ordered by the head of campus police to drop the matter. (The local district attorney, who for unknown reasons decided not to press charges, disappeared in 2005 and was declared legally dead in July).In any event Paterno did acknowledge in his grand jury testimony that he’s known since at least 2002 that Sandusky was a child molester, although incredibly enough now he’s even trying to walk back that admission. He testified that Mike McQueary told him he had seen Sandusky “fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy” in the PSU football locker room showers (McQueary testified that he saw Sandusky anally raping the child). Now in his statement Paterno is trying to get people to believe that he was told that his 58-year-old lifelong friend and co-worker was doing something “inappropriate” to a ten-year-old boy in a shower, but that he had no idea it was anything all that bad: certainly not bad enough to cause Paterno — by far the most powerful person in the PSU AD and arguably the most powerful person on campus — to wonder why the only thing that happened to Sandusky was that he was told not to bring the kids he was raping into the locker room any more (Sandusky retained all his access privileges to the campus until yesterday, and indeed was running football camps for young boys on Joe Paterno’s hallowed football field until two years ago). http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2011/11/living-a-lie

Second Honeymoon
11-08-2011, 04:50 PM
anyone hear about Kalie Wong's story about Joe Pa? A couple of years back Wong stated that a player told him that Joe Paterno used to go into the team shower naked, take a shower with them and SCRUB THE BACKS OF SOME OF THE PLAYERS. Not making this up. Ask Lance Z.

at the very least this is creepy, creepy stuff.....it also makes one think that he may be a sicko too. Those types hide in plain view.

It was on LZ's show. Confirmed.

I thought I heard it on sean&john but it was on wong's former segment on John&Lance (RIP)

It was creepy then.....exponentially creepier now

Joe Texan
11-08-2011, 04:59 PM
The fact that these children were quite young, and Boys to boot, and the time line was long, Every last MF that saw or knew about this with out going to the police should rot in Jail, If I was that bonehead student that saw it first I would have beat the daylights out of the stupid pervert and asked the cops to get that carcas of the campus.

pbat488
11-08-2011, 05:00 PM
sooo..

an older woman that chases a younger man is called a cougar, right?

does that mean an older man that chases a younger man is called a nittany lion?











i'm going to hell :(

edit: hopefully I can kick the shit outta jerry sandusky while i'm there though

The1ApplePie
11-08-2011, 05:02 PM
My point is this that it's asinine to legally punish Paterno when he fulfilled his legal responsibility.

legally you are right

Morally? Different story

PsychoLove
11-08-2011, 05:03 PM
You may take as many personal shots at me as you like. What he did was the right thing according to the law because that was where his legal responsibility ends. Legally he did what he had to do. Unless the law doesn't matter then there shouldn't be one.

Paterno should have known that if the accused were still working there, a cover up was happening and contacted authorities. Tell me how many more got "victimized" because of his silence?

Honoring Earl 34
11-08-2011, 05:23 PM
The thing that really disturbs me is Sandusky himself . I have a friend in law enforcement who told me that the reason they post sex and age on the sex offender site is that's the offender's flavor . Sandusky knew how to scheme because he was a DC . This dude schemed this whole foundation up to bring the chicks to the chicken hawk . I can't help but think about the FBI profiling Jack The Ripper saying he couldn't have done it by himself that he needed an accompllice , a little man . The guy started that foundation in 1977 and was comfortable enough to be in the PSU shower with a boy . He should never be allowed in public again , he is a danger to society .

toronto
11-08-2011, 05:23 PM
legally you are right

Morally? Different story

Co-signed. You've got someone raping, molesting little boys and you've become aware. To say that telling the AD is 'sufficient' makes my skin crawl.

If, and that is an important word, IF these allegations (and the line is so damn long I don't know how this will ever be proven to be false) are true, there are a lot of PSU folks that need to go behind bars, and if I am a PSU fan, I turn in that ****ing white pom pom and boycott games until Paterno and the entire staff, administration, hell the mascot too are all replaced.

Unless of course they're complete and total idiots that still believe despite a damning pile of evidence that Paterno is still a decent man. I'll choose to believe the Attorney General and others that suggest otherwise.

This makes the SMU scandal look like petty theft. This is as bad as it gets. I can't imagine what ex-PSU LBs like Shane Conlan are thinking right now.

Double Barrel
11-08-2011, 05:30 PM
Everybody needs to die... including the grad student and his father. Eff them all. You could not pay me enough money to turn a blind eye to a ten year old getting anally raped. Douse them all with gasoline and let them burn. Sick mother****ers.

This X 10000000∞

**** his legacy.

His new legacy? I swept rape and molesting kids under the rug and am going straight to hell.

QFT.

Personal shame is more damaging than what any of these members could hope for.

What a bunch of horse shit. If the guy had a conscience that would bother him for the rest of his life, he would have had a conscience to report this abuse to the police.

NBA lockout can't end soon enough...

The bosses who just sat back did protect the brand. Blame them they SAT BACK. Not everyone goes to the cops nor is it required.

You are morally obligated to protect children, man. If you cannot comprehend this basic premise, then you still have a lot to learn. No offense intended in any sort of way.

Hookem Horns
11-08-2011, 05:30 PM
I can't imagine what ex-PSU LBs like Shane Conlan are thinking right now.

Did you see Matt Millen (former PSU LB) on his ESPN sports show this morning? The dude was so pissed and upset that he bust out into tears on the air. He said his inner feeling is go to take care of this himself, which I took as him wanting to kill his former position coach and friend.

Here is the video of that ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ix4jlXNDd8

Double Barrel
11-08-2011, 05:53 PM
You're full of it. He doesn't care what you think. He doesn't even know you exist. I'm sure he has enough conscience to feel remorse for what this entire ordeal has brought. I'm sure in hindsight, he would've notified the authorities. However, you can get hung up on morality. I'm about legality. You are correct the NBA lockout can't end soon enough but the season totally being scrapped is far more likely than games actually being played at this point.

I never insinuated that he cares what I think, troll.

You're not about "legality". Stupidity, perhaps...

Dan B.
11-08-2011, 05:55 PM
No we will burn him at the stake. I think many posters here are parents and therefore are thinking about this like it involves their children. I am not burdened by the role of being a parent. If Joe did fulfill his responsibility by notifying his superior then I don't understand the irrational urge to legally punish him if he did fulfill his legal responsibility. I'm not saying he shouldn't have called the police or should but in this situation. Going above his responsibility of calling the police is a personal choice. A choice he has to live with. Personal shame is more damaging than what any of these members could hope for.

says a lot about you that you think this way. I'd watch out for kids outside of my own...hell, the kid I take care of isn't my kid. It's another Man's kid. If I saw a rape, murder, child porn or any harmful act to another human being I'd do my part as a human being and do the right thing. Contacting your boss and then nothing happening after the fact isn't the right friggin' thing. That's low character stuff.

No kidding.

I don't have children, but I imagine being that kid. Try it.

Forced to submit to anal rape, you turn around and see another coach watching you. That coach... turns and walks away (to call his dad and go home). He saw you getting raped and then left you alone with the rapist. I have no idea how McQueary slept that night -- or any night since. How he couldn't even call 911 is beyond me.

The1ApplePie
11-08-2011, 05:58 PM
You're full of it. He doesn't care what you think. He doesn't even know you exist. I'm sure he has enough conscience to feel remorse for what this entire ordeal has brought. I'm sure in hindsight, he would've notified the authorities. However, you can get hung up on morality. I'm about legality. You are correct the NBA lockout can't end soon enough but the season totally being scrapped is far more likely than games actually being played at this point.


I'm pretty sure even NAMBLA calls this morally irreprehensible

toronto
11-08-2011, 06:07 PM
Did you see Matt Millen (former PSU LB) on his ESPN sports show this morning? The dude was so pissed and upset that he bust out into tears on the air. He said his inner feeling is go to take care of this himself, which I took as him wanting to kill his former position coach and friend.

Here is the video of that ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ix4jlXNDd8

I'm glad he broke down - maybe if more famous alumni start feeling that sick to their stomach they'll all team up and get that 84 year old schmuck disguised as a good man the hell out of there and start the painful process of bleaching every last square inch of that place, anywhere where Sandusky stepped or sat.

For the man to know this shit went down, then go about the only damn thing he cared about, which was becoming the winningest coach ever, tarnishes every last accomplishment he made, even the school's admirable graduation rate.

gwallaia
11-08-2011, 06:10 PM
I wonder how many former Penn State players knew what was happening and never said anything?

toronto
11-08-2011, 06:10 PM
You're acting like a child just because I'm not joining the lynch mob. Take a look in the mirror before you claim I'm about stupidity. Just because you don't want to see that I'm about legality doesn't mean you have the right to tell me what I'm about.

Are you an uncle? Cousin? What if this had happened to a buddy of yours that had a kid and you personally witnessed it, or was told by a reliable person what had happened. You seriously wouldn't go to the cops? Really?

This is not about joining a lynch mob. Read all 20 pages+ of the attorney general's report, then come back here and try and say that again with a straight face. People are going to jail over this, its simply a matter of how many and for how long.

I'm quite confident that god-loving parents that have waved the PSU pom-pom and drank Paterno's kool-aid their entire lives are in personal turmoil right now - they know damn well they can't support him or the program, not with this on their watches.

toronto
11-08-2011, 06:11 PM
I wonder how many former Penn State players knew what was happening and never said anything?

I'll bet anything most of them have already been subpoened as the legal vultures begin to circle. Expect class action lawsuits galore once the criminal charges have been laid.

Joe Texan
11-08-2011, 06:15 PM
SMU paid a player and got the death penalty Pen State should be banned from football for 30 years

Double Barrel
11-08-2011, 06:20 PM
You're acting like a child just because I'm not joining the lynch mob. Take a look in the mirror before you claim I'm about stupidity. Just because you don't want to see that I'm about legality doesn't mean you have the right to tell me what I'm about.

Can you read? Is that above your basic skill set?

Like toronto mentioned, take the time to read 20 pages+ of the attorney general's report before you start flaming people like a worthless troll.

Bleating "I'm about legality" tells me what you're all about, chump.

toronto
11-08-2011, 06:22 PM
SMU paid a player and got the death penalty Pen State should be banned from football for 30 years

As I said before, SMU is NOTHING compared to this. USC, Miami, Ohio St., you name the school that has been through NCAA sanctions and they all pale in comparison to what may have happened inside the walls of the Happy Valley football program.

There is a big difference between point shaving, paying players, tattoo issues and frigging child molestation/rape, followed by a MASSIVE cover-up.

The fact that the university then had the balls to tell reporters to NOT ask Paterno questions about this mess and leave it to football only, then realizing that would never happen, cancel it, says a lot about the people there. Even now, with all of this out there, they're still trying to stick their heads in the ground and pray it'll go away. Newsflash to PSU administration. The denial period is now over and you're all ****ed.

toronto
11-08-2011, 06:25 PM
I agree that the program should get the death penalty by the NCAA and the banned period should be longer than SMU (which was technically 1 year but SMU decided to sit out the next year). I also agree that people will and should go to prison let alone jail.

However, Paterno shouldn't and I'm only speaking about Paterno and always have been. Now, yes I am a cousin of young children but no matter because I'm not one to put myself in another's shoes. Though, I will call the authorities in that situation if I witness such things. However, Paterno fulfilled his legal responsibility and by me calling the police I would have beyond what I was legally supposed to do. People are confusing morals with the law.

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm not going to bash you, there looks like enough here to take care of that. I'll tell you I strongly disagree - Paterno's legal responsibility is one thing, but the man spouting off for decades about his love of god and caring for kids. If that were all true, he goes to the authorities and turns in his friend, realizing how sick that person may have been.

He's lost a lot, if not all of his credibility/legacy, and believe me, that's ALWAYS been all he's ever cared about. The man is frigging 84 years old and still coaching - even Bobby Bowden gave in and moved on, kicking and screaming.

Vinny
11-08-2011, 06:42 PM
I agree that the program should get the death penalty by the NCAA and the banned period should be longer than SMU (which was technically 1 year but SMU decided to sit out the next year). I also agree that people will and should go to prison let alone jail.

However, Paterno shouldn't and I'm only speaking about Paterno and always have been. Now, yes I am a cousin of young children but no matter because I'm not one to put myself in another's shoes. Though, I will call the authorities in that situation if I witness such things. However, Paterno fulfilled his legal responsibility and by me calling the police I would have beyond what I was legally supposed to do. People are confusing morals with the law.
Personally I'm not confusing morals with the law. I'm disappointed and outraged with the morality of the people trusted to protect the children. I don't give a crap about hiding behind technicalities in the law - That's what morally vacant people do....and that's what the outrage is about. Moral vacancy. There is no confusion on my behalf.

Double Barrel
11-08-2011, 06:44 PM
Still shouting insults like a 4 year old? I can read but there is a difference between what is and isn't worth reading. I have read a few pages so far. However, it doesn't concern me. What concerns me is figuring where's Paterno's responsibility and I don't need to read the whole report for my answer. I haven't been trolling or flaming instead I was giving a different viewpoint. I guess that's trolling though. Calm down ffs.

:spin:

You're just as sick in the head as Paterno for justifying these non-actions.

You hide behind legality, but that is nothing but a shadow to what is truly important in life.

If that makes me a "4 year old shouting insults" in your tiny little brain, so be it. Your opinion of me is worthless.

You'll be gone soon anyway. :BananaWav

toronto
11-08-2011, 06:56 PM
Personally I'm not confusing morals with the law. I'm disappointed and outraged with the morality of the people trusted to protect the children. I don't give a crap about hiding behind technicalities in the law - That's what morally vacant people do....and that's what the outrage is about. Moral vacancy. There is no confusion on my behalf.

I can only imagine how a PSU diehard that always loved Paterno, but is a parent and coming to the harsh reality of this, is dying inside. They know, no matter how hard they try to rationalize it, that this is something you can't rationalize or hide from.

I watched every second of Millen and to me, this is a rational reaction of a parent and person that can't live with himself, knowing he used to look up to what may go down as a monster.

Or worse, maybe he walked around in the shower naked around Sandusky, and is coming to grips that the son of a ***** was enjoying that in a way he can't possibly comprehend.

srrono
11-08-2011, 08:02 PM
see no evil - hear no evil - speak no evil = enablers

TimeKiller
11-08-2011, 08:09 PM
Legality. Ha. We all break laws moron. Nobody is calling for my head for speeding to get home earlier. Some words on a piece of paper somewhere is what you and Pappy Slappy can hide behind. The MONSTER he tried to hide will ALWAYS be visible.

You hear something? What is it. Oh, it's a guy raping a kid. What on the face of the planet would stop you from a) kicking the shit outta that guy b) calling the police and my goodness c) disassociate with the monster who raped children in YOUR house?

Legally Joe Paterno might be in the clear. Morally he's got a thousand pound weight strapped to his back. Socially, he's ****ed.

GlassHalfFull
11-08-2011, 08:34 PM
I agree that the program should get the death penalty by the NCAA and the banned period should be longer than SMU (which was technically 1 year but SMU decided to sit out the next year). I also agree that people will and should go to prison let alone jail.

However, Paterno shouldn't and I'm only speaking about Paterno and always have been. Now, yes I am a cousin of young children but no matter because I'm not one to put myself in another's shoes. Though, I will call the authorities in that situation if I witness such things. However, Paterno fulfilled his legal responsibility and by me calling the police I would have beyond what I was legally supposed to do. People are confusing morals with the law.

My turn to nitpick what you are saying. There is also no law against your calling the police. You make it sound like he would have been doing something wrong by taking the next step. He may not be legally culpable, but he still should have made the call.

Honoring Earl 34
11-08-2011, 08:57 PM
My turn to nitpick what you are saying. There is also no law against your calling the police. You make it sound like he would have been doing something wrong by taking the next step. He may not be legally culpable, but he still should have made the call.

There's a story about it happening in 1998 and the mother of the boy was paid off and the DA on the case has never been found .

HTown2ATX
11-08-2011, 09:02 PM
You'll be gone soon anyway. :BananaWave:


LOL....best use of a smiley.


Arsenal, by the law, yes, he did what he had to do, the bare minimum. It is not illegal for him to call someone or follow up with the situation after he reported it. More should have been done.

Even though you admittedly don't have nor necessarily like kids as you have posted before, which is fine, you still sound ludicrous for acting as though he fulfilled his obligations in full as a human, law and morality aside. These were kids man, kids. You make sure someone pays for that.

Admitting that and joining a lynch mob are 2 different things. And obviously people who are parents like me, DB, Vinny, GHF, Nitro, Srrono, etc., are going to be more sensitive to the issue but we are still making logical arguments and not just flailing with hyberbole IMO.

It just boggles my mind that someone wouldn't have demanded more from someone like Joe Pa who IS Penn St, not just a coach. Sandusky STILL was allowed on campus and had an office and would work out there, etc, all these years later but the school would not allow him to bring kids to the facility anymore, so he clearly had been found out, yet Joe Pa, and everyone else, turned a blind eye. That's solid fuqed up right there. So yes, in my mind, Joe knew what happened as he let his AD know, yet still looked this fuq in the eye on campus in some unofficial role for ow many years later. Joe Pa is not an *****, you know that if the AD had called the cops Sandusky would have been raped and murdered in jail by now. That didn't raise any bells to Joe Pa...this is a complerte cluster FAIL on Joe Pa and everyone else and honestly I hope anyone not criminally charged is civilly sued for every penny they earn to where there grandkids are poor.

Joe Pa's legacy is trash, Penn St is dead and the NCAA has yet another nail in what I hope is its coffin as an organization honestly. I'm honestly surprised I am so composed in this discussion. The things I want to do to Sandusky are just sick, even I'm shocked. I think for the first time my imagination has outdone anything I have ever heard while listening to Metal...and that's saying alot with some of the shit I jam lol.

Honoring Earl 34
11-08-2011, 09:08 PM
LOL....best use of a smiley.


Arsenal, by the law, yes, he did what he had to do, the bare minimum. It is not illegal for him to call someone or follow up with the situation after he reported it. More should have been done.

Even though you admittedly don't have nor necessarily like kids as you have posted before, which is fine, you still sound ludicrous for acting as though he fulfilled his obligations in full as a human, law and morality aside. These were kids man, kids. You make sure someone pays for that.

Admitting that and joining a lynch mob are 2 different things. And obviously people who are parents like me, DB, Vinny, GHF, Nitro, Srrono, etc., are going to be more sensitive to the issue but we are still making logical arguments and not just flailing with hyberbole IMO.

It just boggles my mind that someone wouldn't have demanded more from someone like Joe Pa who IS Penn St, not just a coach. Sandusky STILL was allowed on campus and had an office and would work out there, etc, all these years later but the school would not allow him to bring kids to the facility anymore, so he clearly had been found out, yet Joe Pa, and everyone else, turned a blind eye. That's solid fuqed up right there. So yes, in my mind, Joe knew what happened as he let his AD know, yet still looked this fuq in the eye on campus in some unofficial role for ow many years later. Joe Pa is not an *****, you know that if the AD had called the cops Sandusky would have been raped and murdered in jail by now. That didn't raise any bells to Joe Pa...this is a complerte cluster FAIL on Joe Pa and everyone else and honestly I hope anyone not criminally charged is civilly sued for every penny they earn to where there grandkids are poor.

Joe Pa's legacy is trash, Penn St is dead and the NCAA has yet another nail in what I hope is its coffin as an organization honestly. I'm honestly surprised I am so composed in this discussion. The things I want to do to Sandusky are just sick, even I'm shocked. I think for the first time my imagination has outdone anything I have ever heard while listening to Metal...and that's saying alot with some of the shit I jam lol.

If I was Joe I'd be dropping dime because you know who enables a freak ?

NitroGSXR
11-08-2011, 09:17 PM
You are correct but I'm not against taking the next step. That next step is a personal choice because he doesn't have to do so. I'm not trying to sound like I'm condemning the idea of notifying the authorities and if I am then I sincerely apologize. My point was he may haven't met his moral responsibility but morality is subjective because what's moral for one may not be for another. The bare mininum was met therefore I don't think he should be legally punished.

I can agree with the bolded. I fully expect his punishment to be illegally vicious.

BattleRedToro
11-08-2011, 09:32 PM
You are correct but I'm not against taking the next step. That next step is a personal choice because he doesn't have to do so. I'm not trying to sound like I'm condemning the idea of notifying the authorities and if I am then I sincerely apologize. My point was he may haven't met his moral responsibility but morality is subjective because what's moral for one may not be for another. The bare mininum was met therefore I don't think he should be legally punished.

Actually, I believe you are wrong. The State of Pennsylvania has a code that requires all school personnel to report child abuse. Joe Paterno as a coach of a publicly funded state university would fall under this mandatory requirement. He failed to report this to the proper authorities within the required 48 hour time period. By the way, the Athletic Director is not considered the proper authority. I hope that charges will be filed on these grounds.

GlassHalfFull
11-08-2011, 09:35 PM
Actually, I believe you are wrong. The State of Pennsylvania has a code that requires all school personnel to report child abuse. Joe Paterno as a coach of a publicly funded state university would fall under this mandatory requirement. He failed to report this to the proper authorities within the required 48 hour time period. By the way, the Athletic Director is not considered the proper authority. I hope that charges will be filed on these grounds.

I actually wondered if this was the case. Glad to hear it is.

Honoring Earl 34
11-08-2011, 09:46 PM
I know about this but the attorney general has said that Paterno fulfilled his legal responsibility. That's why they won't be going after him for right now if at all.

This will then be a civil case .

ArlingtonTexan
11-08-2011, 09:48 PM
http://boston.barstoolsports.com/

BattleRedToro
11-08-2011, 10:04 PM
I know about this but the attorney general has said that Paterno fulfilled his legal responsibility. That's why they won't be going after him for right now if at all.

The Attorney General is full of crap if he only reported it to his Athletic Director. If pressure mounts for the Attorney General, who will be up for reelection in 2012, don't be surprised if her story changes. I'm hoping the people of Pennsylvania put the pressure on her. I hope child advocacy groups campaign in the press for charges to be filed against Paterno and McQueary.

Honoring Earl 34
11-08-2011, 10:30 PM
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/former_centre_county_da_ray_g.html

Gricar was also the county’s top prosecutor when many of the other inappropriate acts were alleged to have happened. But before the allegations brought by a boy in Clinton County in 2009, the 23-page grand jury presentment says police were only ever notified once: in 1998.

According to those who were present during that investigation, Gricar seemed to be the one who made the decision not to prosecute.

We’ll probably never know why.

Gricar disappeared April 15, 2005, after taking a day off work to drive to Lewisburg. His disappearance has been the subject of a lot of speculation.

His laptop hard drive, which was found dumped in the Susquehanna River near where his car was parked in Lewisburg, was too badly damaged by water to be read

BattleRedToro
11-08-2011, 10:46 PM
This will then be a civil case .

Meehan seeks federal probe of Penn State-sex scandal (http://mainlinemedianews.com/articles/2011/11/08/main_line_suburban_life/news/doc4eb9aaab64c4a627765376.txt?viewmode=2)

Dear Secretary Duncan,

I share your sentiment that the allegations of misconduct at Pennsylvania State University are heartbreaking. Given the disturbing nature of these allegations, I am writing to respectfully urge you direct the Department of Education to conduct a full investigation into whether federal law was broken in the failure to properly report allegations of sexual abuse at Penn State.

...

eriadoc
11-08-2011, 10:46 PM
What concerns me is figuring where's Paterno's responsibility and I don't need to read the whole report for my answer.

First off, Paterno's moral responsibility as an adult, an educator, an authority figure, and just a HUMAN ****ING BEING is to call the ****ing cops as soon as he hears something like that. Furthermore, there's some indication at this point that educators are legally required to notify CPS if they see or hear evidence of child abuse.

Paterno can burn in hell just like Sandusky, and in my less charitable moments, I hope someone sends them both there soon.

BattleRedToro
11-08-2011, 10:48 PM
We'll find out soon enough. The AG said he did what he had to do according to state law. If she does turn around and go after him. That's a bs political move. Then again, the AD maybe the proper authority. What proof do you have that the AD isn't? That's the only reason why the AG would make such an initial statement like that.

No, it was a BS political move not to properly enforce the law in the first place.

Vinny
11-08-2011, 11:08 PM
http://boston.barstoolsports.com/wow, thats awful. For those of you that didn't click the link, Paterno held a bizarro pep rally on his yard today“We want Joe!” (students chanting)

“And I want you!” Paterno said. “It’s hard for me to tell you how much this means to me. You guys have lived for this place. I’ve lived for people like you guys and girls. I’m just so happy to see that you feel so strongly about us and about our school. And as I said, I don’t know if you heard me or not, is, you know, the kids who were victims or whatever they want to say, I think we all ought to say a prayer for them. It’s a tough life when people do certain things to you. But anyway, you've been great. You’ve been really great.”

“Who are we?!”

“Penn State!”


20 Victims? The Penn State Story Gets Worse by the Hour

UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. – Fox 29 has learned the number of child-abuse in the Penn State sex-abuse scandal involving ex-coach Jerry Sandusky has more than doubled in the past day, and is closer to 20 victims……………………Sources tell Fox 29 since a press conference on Monday, the number of potential victims has more than doubled in the case…………….On Monday, state officials publicized two phone numbers for past victims to call, and within a day, it seems investigators have new leads. http://www.beyondusports.com/20-victims-penn-state-story-worse-hour/

JCTexan
11-08-2011, 11:31 PM
Can't we at least hear what Joe has to say or do we just not care that much? I think we can.

Where did I say that? Read the thread let's not put words in the mouth of others either.

I didn't mean for it to seem like I was putting words in your mouth. For that I apologize.

Since Paterno was the one who notified the athletic director of what happened, don't you think it would be safe to assume he knew as much as the AD? So why would anyone care what he has to say?

Vinny
11-08-2011, 11:33 PM
“All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”


Advocates for priest-abuse victims saw parallels in how the university and the Roman Catholic church handled similar problems.

"Here we are again," said John Salveson, former president of the Pennsylvania chapter of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests. "When an institution discovers abuse of a kid ... their first reaction was to protect the reputation of the institution and the perpetrator."

"They didn't even try to find out the identity of the kid that was being raped in the shower," he said. "Their solution to this was to not let Sandusky into the shower anymore. It's just stunning to me that no one called the police."State police Commissioner Frank Noonan said that although Paterno may have met his legal requirement to report suspected abuse by Sandusky, "somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child."

He added: "I think you have the moral responsibility, anyone. Not whether you're a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building. I think you have a moral responsibility to call us."The grand jury report said McQueary was in the locker room that night to put away some new sneakers when he heard "rhythmic, slapping sounds" and looked into the showers.

He reportedly saw a naked boy, about 10 years old, with his hands against the wall as Sandusky subjected him to anal sex. McQueary left immediately and first contacted his father before calling Paterno the next morning and then meeting at Paterno's home.

Exactly what was said during that meeting is unclear from the grand jury record, which states that Paterno called Curley the next day to tell him McQueary had seen Sandusky "in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy." http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/official-paterno-stop-abuse-14901094#.TroBdvSArWI

bigfan77801
11-08-2011, 11:48 PM
I used to have respect for Joe Pa, now I want him (and every other person involved in the cover-up) tossed in into the General Population in whatever prison they ended up in. I also would like to see the shower room burned to the ground, as fire is the only thing that can cleanse it.

BattleRedToro
11-08-2011, 11:55 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/official-paterno-stop-abuse-14901094#.TroBdvSArWI

Rhythmic slapping sounds ...











http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1383/4599625026_fd5e048d38_o.jpg

Vinny
11-09-2011, 04:49 AM
I was more interested — and continue to be — about why Paterno did not feel compelled to contact police himself, just as a natural human reaction. Especially as the ultimate authority figure in the Penn State football complex, indeed — and let’s be honest here — maybe among the entirety of the university.

Then, what I really thought was compelling was what Paterno said in a news release on Sunday evening. He suggested that what McQueary told him in 2002 of the shower incident was so nonspecific that he was unaware that Sandusky was allegedly performing a sex act with the boy:
“It was obvious that the witness [McQueary] was distraught over what he saw, but he at no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the grand jury report.”

The attorney general’s release calls McQueary’s testimony something very different: “A powerful eyewitness statement about the sexual assault of a child.”

This discrepancy is an important point for Paterno’s moral standing. In fact, it’s everything.
What are we to believe here? Both parties agree that McQueary was so upset at what he saw that he immediately contacted his father and that together they went to tell Paterno. And yet, if we are to believe Paterno, McQueary somehow stopped short of conveying exactly what was so shocking?

This is some pretzel logic to traverse. And I find it extremely hard to buy.

When asked about the difference in McQueary’s and Paterno’s stories, the attorney general would not expound, and merely referred to the grand jury presentment (http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1107/espn_e_Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf).

http://blog.pennlive.com/davidjones/2011/11/paterno_still_hasnt_answered_q.html#incart_hbx

Hookem Horns
11-09-2011, 05:04 AM
This thing is getting more bizarre and sick by the hour.

toronto
11-09-2011, 06:09 AM
http://boston.barstoolsports.com/

Guess god still loves the stupid idiots.

Runner
11-09-2011, 09:18 AM
"Moral nihilists assert that morality does not inherently exist, and that any established moral values are abstractly contrived." - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

I have studied a bit of philosophy in my time. This type of nihilism seemed to me to be a "look how cool-cynical I am" position. It seemed lazy to me too; proponents don't have to prove anything, just demand that others prove competing theories correct.

That's how I feel about the subject in philosophical banter anyway. Moral nihilism as a guiding principle in real life is degenerate.

I suspect those who claim to believe such crap only believe it when they aren't on the receiving end of what they would consider degenerate behavior.

Honoring Earl 34
11-09-2011, 10:05 AM
"Moral nihilists assert that morality does not inherently exist, and that any established moral values are abstractly contrived." - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

I have studied a bit of philosophy in my time. This type of nihilism seemed to me to be a "look how cool-cynical I am" position. It seemed lazy to me too; proponents don't have to prove anything, just demand that others prove competing theories correct.

That's how I feel about the subject in philosophical banter anyway. Moral nihilism as a guiding principle in real life is degenerate.

I suspect those who claim to believe such crap only believe it when they aren't on the receiving end of what they would consider degenerate behavior.

As a society if you can't protect your elderly , women , and children the what does that say ?

Other things I've gathered from this ........

Have we become so enamored with sports that we put that in front of all things ?

It's funny that some folks talk about Sandusky being gay . He wasn't gay he was a pedophile , a child rapist . It doesn't make a guy who rapes a 10 year old girl straight either .

I've read where Sandusky is the most dangerous type of pedophile . The nice guy who goes in and gains confidence in the family or child and then abuses them . It makes me start thinking about my kids and was someone trying to get his foot in the door . That's what stuff like this does it makes you wonder . Having said that , any grown man coming around my house showering my kids with gifts and such would have set off alarms . I've always thought that women are the more pateral ones and have been leery of males who want to get close to other peoples kids .

toronto
11-09-2011, 10:07 AM
AP reporting Paterno will retire at the end of the season.

That isn't going to satisfy ANYONE. If he is on the sideline or even present inside the stadium this Saturday then Penn State will have lost any credibility it has left.

They cannot let him stick around another minute, even if he is a supposed god there.

disaacks3
11-09-2011, 10:08 AM
You are correct but I'm not against taking the next step. That next step is a personal choice because he doesn't have to do so. I'm not trying to sound like I'm condemning the idea of notifying the authorities and if I am then I sincerely apologize. My point was he may haven't met his moral responsibility but morality is subjective because what's moral for one may not be for another. The bare mininum was met therefore I don't think he should be legally punished.

Well, the next question is legally punished by whom? If the NCAA, who gets all in a tizzy if a booster so much as leaves a tip at a dinner table when going to dinner with a player thinks this is OK, I'm gonna hurl. A coach is supposed to be responsible for the actions of his players AND staff. If he can be fined / fired for minor offenses, where in the hell does allowing sodomy of a child fall?

You can't take back what happened to these kids, but you CAN try to make it "right".

Porky
11-09-2011, 10:18 AM
I find it hard to believe that anyone can defend JoePa or anyone else involved in these crimes against children. This is reprehensible. It's kind of part of our anything goes culture though where we aren't allowed to make moral judgements about others. Many were defending Vick after he fought and killed dogs because they didn't own dogs, and now we have people saying they basically don't care because they don't have children. Huh?

So now we are only to expect people to do the bare min as required by law and no more? This sort of reminds me of that baby over in China a few weeks ago. I think DB has posted about the little girl that got ran over while people just walked right over and past her. Disgusting. This is just as bad, if not worse.

People in general thouroughly disgust me. I swear one day I am going unabomber mode - I'll just build a shack in the woods and live off the land and shun all communication to the outside world and that way I can be blissfully ignorant of all the evil that takes place - all right under the noses of others who do nothing at all too stop it.

Honoring Earl 34
11-09-2011, 10:28 AM
I find it hard to believe that anyone can defend JoePa or anyone else involved in these crimes against children. This is reprehensible. It's kind of part of our anything goes culture though where we aren't allowed to make moral judgements about others. Many were defending Vick after he fought and killed dogs because they didn't own dogs, and now we have people saying they basically don't care because they don't have children. Huh?

So now we are only to expect people to do the bare min as required by law and no more? This sort of reminds me of that baby over in China a few weeks ago. I think DB has posted about the little girl that got ran over while people just walked right over and past her. Disgusting. This is just as bad, if not worse.

People in general thouroughly disgust me. I swear one day I am going unabomber mode - I'll just build a shack in the woods and live off the land and shun all communication to the outside world and that way I can be blissfully ignorant of all the evil that takes place - all right under the noses of others who do nothing at all too stop it.

You know it's pretty bad when folks say " you think Paterno was that naive or focussed on football " . I'm about 50/50 with that being the answer . The other 50 is Sandusky wasn't the only one and this was a dirty little secret .

gary
11-09-2011, 10:30 AM
The statement just given by Joe makes me sad, God bless him he gave his heart and soul for that school but the director should go to hell and burn. Joe did not follow the morals of the majority so he is now evil. Look at those who showed up at his home last night to support him good for them.

Porky
11-09-2011, 10:36 AM
The statement just given by Joe makes me sad, God bless him he gave his heart and soul for that school but the director should go to hell and burn. Joe did not follow the morals of the majority so he is now evil. Look at those who showed up at his home last night to support him good for them.

Gary I love you man - but why the hell are you defending Paterno? Put yourself in the shoes of one of those boys. At best JoePa turned a blind eye to child abuse, and at worst he knowingly let it happen. How can you support a man who would do that just for the sake of retaining the prestige of himself and Penn St?

Honoring Earl 34
11-09-2011, 10:42 AM
The statement just given by Joe makes me sad, God bless him he gave his heart and soul for that school but the director should go to hell and burn. Joe did not follow the morals of the majority so he is now evil. Look at those who showed up at his home last night to support him good for them.

Has nothing to do with morals of the majority . It has to do with priorities and what's right to protect 10 year old boys from a rapist .

If Vinny , DB , GHF , Bill , Thorn , Runner , Porky , and me were standing in a line with shotguns and a rabid pitbull came after you and we all yelled " watch out " is that good enough . If one of us pulled the trigger you wouldn't have gotten mauled . If another had pulled the trigger then that rabid pitbull wouldn't have made it to the park and mauled 5 more kids . Anyone of them could have put a stop to it and didn't .

Having grown up in the Dean Coryl era I remember the devastation and fear he brought . His own accomplice killed him or he would have kept going . Same with Sandusky except Sandusky hasn't killed anyone .

toronto
11-09-2011, 10:46 AM
Has nothing to do with morals of the majority . It has to do with priorities and what's right to protect 10 year old boys from a rapist .

If Vinny , DB , GHF , Bill , Thorn , Runner , Porky , and me were standing in a line with shotguns and a rabid pitbull came after you and we all yelled " watch out " is that good enough . If one of us pulled the trigger you wouldn't have gotten mauled . If another had pulled the trigger then that rabid pitbull wouldn't have made it to the park and mauled 5 more kids . Anyone of them could have put a stop to it and didn't .

Having grown up in the Dean Coryl era I remember the devastation and fear he brought . His own accomplice killed him or he would have kept going . Same with Sandusky except Sandusky hasn't killed anyone .

Unless those kids, now adults eventually starting killing themselves or are so ****ed up that they start breaking the law. It never will leave those kids, no matter how hard they try to exorcise the demons. Sandusky has ****ed those kids up for life, and for all we know, they're already a bit dead inside.

Hervoyel
11-09-2011, 10:49 AM
If one of your coaches is giving 10 year old kids blowJ's and anal sex in your locker room....he knows. NO way he didn't know. I refuse to believe nobody told him details...no friggin' way. Chain of command isn't an excuse for covering up criminal behavior...especially with kids. Paterno should go to jail.


All I'm saying is that I want to know what he knew. We probably will never find out now because the stock answer is going to be "I knew nothing" or at the very least "I knew very little".

I find it possible that he didn't know. This might be one of the few instances where I think there's a chance of that. Paterno was in his mid 70's when this took place if I'm not mistaken. He's 84 now. I don't know enough about the program there to say to what degree he's a figurehead. I also haven't come across any details regarding what McQueary presumably said to him. I saw something yesterday in the news about what he told Paterno differeing from the detailed version he gave the grand jury. How different?

I want to know more before torching Paterno but at the same time I confess I think the story is something I don't want to dig too deeply into. It's disturbing and I'm not being paid to find out who needs some swift justice here. I want justice, I just don't want to see Paterno burned at the stake if he didn't know the details of what happened.

gary
11-09-2011, 10:52 AM
Gary I love you man - but why the hell are you defending Paterno? Put yourself in the shoes of one of those boys. At best JoePa turned a blind eye to child abuse, and at worst he knowingly let it happen. How can you support a man who would do that just for the sake of retaining the prestige of himself and Penn St?Is that what he did or is it just because of the way he handled it? DB said I have a lot to learn. Please. I know what I would have done but I am not everyone. Why do I still have much to learn, because I stand by my unpopular opinion? What has happened to everyone having a fair say? Not today pepole not today.

Hervoyel
11-09-2011, 10:55 AM
Gary I love you man - but why the hell are you defending Paterno? Put yourself in the shoes of one of those boys. At best JoePa turned a blind eye to child abuse, and at worst he knowingly let it happen. How can you support a man who would do that just for the sake of retaining the prestige of himself and Penn St?

I don't think you know enough to say that. I think it really depends on what he knew and what he was told by McQueary. People keep saying "He HAD to know" but that's a fallicy. It's shocking what people don't know and what people don't notice going on right under their noses and evidence of that happens every day. The guy is in his 80's now (70's then) and I'm not at all shocked by the idea that he didn't know this was happening. Is it that strange to think that an elderly "figurehead type" coach might not know every detail of the program he sits on top of?

I think there is a very valid argument here that if they had a younger coach who was more involved and less of a "living mascot" then possibly that coach would have seen the signs and acted on them. I see Paterno's last decade as one of a program without a head coach at all. A coaching staff yes, a coach? Not so much.

Grams
11-09-2011, 10:56 AM
I have been reading about this anb listening to various media opinions.

It just comes down to the facts: they knew what was going on in 1998 - when he "retired".

Why did they let him back in the school property, why did they not notify his orgaization, why did they not investigate more?

In 2002 - why did the guy just not stop the rape, why did he just turn around and walk out? Why did he wait till the next day to tell someone, why did he just not call the police? Why did no one call the police at that time. Why did Paterno wait a day to tell his "superiors"?

And then no one calls the police and the guy is back on the campus and no one notices?

It may not be that Paterno did anything illegal, but it sure was not morally right.
States volumes about the "Integrity" he keeps preaching about.

He does not need to retire at the end of the season, he needs to retire immediately or they need to fire him immediately - along with the assistant coach that just turned his back on the 10 year old boy being raped.

Honoring Earl 34
11-09-2011, 10:59 AM
Unless those kids, now adults eventually starting killing themselves or are so ****ed up that they start breaking the law. It never will leave those kids, no matter how hard they try to exorcise the demons. Sandusky has ****ed those kids up for life, and for all we know, they're already a bit dead inside.

Oh no doubt that they are scarred for life . The most premitive and basic social structure in the country is a maximum security unit . If you were to release Sandusky in there with no protection , they'd kill him . He would be the most despised out of all the others . What's that tell you ?

This is why they say a coward dies a 1000 deaths because those who did nothing are going to have to see and hear what's believed to be near 20 cases of boys who were raped .

Runner
11-09-2011, 11:00 AM
All I'm saying is that I want to know what he knew. We probably will never find out now because the stock answer is going to be "I knew nothing" or at the very least "I knew very little".

I find it possible that he didn't know. This might be one of the few instances where I think there's a chance of that. Paterno was in his mid 70's when this took place if I'm not mistaken. He's 84 now. I don't know enough about the program there to say to what degree he's a figurehead. I also haven't come across any details regarding what McQueary presumably said to him. I saw something yesterday in the news about what he told Paterno differeing from the detailed version he gave the grand jury. How different?

I want to know more before torching Paterno but at the same time I confess I think the story is something I don't want to dig too deeply into. It's disturbing and I'm not being paid to find out who needs some swift justice here. I want justice, I just don't want to see Paterno burned at the stake if he didn't know the details of what happened.

It also stood out to me that what Paterno said he was told was far different from the detailed grand jury testimony. That's a pretty thin thread to hang onto though, given the fact that other investigations that took place should have raised his awareness level.

Am I for burning an innocent man at the stake? No. I'm also not for covering up what happened to protect a guilty man.

As you say, we need to let this play out. I find it likely that many, many people share culpability in the end. Initial evidence is damning and will be hard to counter.

Honoring Earl 34
11-09-2011, 11:01 AM
I have been reading about this anb listening to various media opinions.

It just comes down to the facts: they knew what was going on in 1998 - when he "retired".

Why did they let him back in the school property, why did they not notify his orgaization, why did they not investigate more?

In 2002 - why did the guy just not stop the rape, why did he just turn around and walk out? Why did he wait till the next day to tell someone, why did he just not call the police? Why did no one call the police at that time. Why did Paterno wait a day to tell his "superiors"?

And then no one calls the police and the guy is back on the campus and no one notices?

It may not be that Paterno did anything illegal, but it sure was not morally right.
States volumes about the "Integrity" he keeps preaching about.

He does not need to retire at the end of the season, he needs to retire immediately or they need to fire him immediately - along with the assistant coach that just turned his back on the 10 year old boy being raped.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that Paterno knew and that's why Sandusky was told he wouldn't be head coach and needed to retire .

Hervoyel
11-09-2011, 11:05 AM
I have been reading about this anb listening to various media opinions.

It just comes down to the facts: they knew what was going on in 1998 - when he "retired".

Why did they let him back in the school property, why did they not notify his orgaization, why did they not investigate more?

In 2002 - why did the guy just not stop the rape, why did he just turn around and walk out? Why did he wait till the next day to tell someone, why did he just not call the police? Why did no one call the police at that time. Why did Paterno wait a day to tell his "superiors"?

And then no one calls the police and the guy is back on the campus and no one notices?

It may not be that Paterno did anything illegal, but it sure was not morally right.
States volumes about the "Integrity" he keeps preaching about.

He does not need to retire at the end of the season, he needs to retire immediately or they need to fire him immediately - along with the assistant coach that just turned his back on the 10 year old boy being raped.


I would absolutely agree that he should retire right now. I think that's inevitable and the sooner he does it (even if every word he's said is true and he did not know the seriousness of the allegations) the better off he will be and the quicker this will be resolved. Sandusky is definitely going down. The administrators who covered up for him are going down. Paterno needs to get out of the way. Who he is and the position he's in there is taking away from the process that needs to happen. He's got his story and he's sticking to it. That's fine, step aside and let justice be served to the people who have it coming.

ArlingtonTexan
11-09-2011, 11:10 AM
Joe paterno's current statement

http://www.canada.com/Statement+Paterno+Head+Coach+Penn+State+Nittany+Li ons+2011/5681219/story.html#ixzz1dDAHVgaw


STATE COLLEGE, Pa. - I am absolutely devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief.

I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today.

That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can.

This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.

My goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University.

Hervoyel
11-09-2011, 11:10 AM
It also stood out to me that what Paterno said he was told was far different from the detailed grand jury testimony. That's a pretty thin thread to hang onto though, given the fact that other investigations that took place should have raised his awareness level.

Am I for burning an innocent man at the stake? No. I'm also not for covering up what happened to protect a guilty man.

As you say, we need to let this play out. I find it likely that many, many people share culpability in the end. Initial evidence is damning and will be hard to counter.


That's really all I'm saying. It needs to play out. People need to testify and the story needs to be uncovered.

I don't know how he's treated there. I mean, I know Paterno "walks on water" like coaches at other huge programs. Bear Bryant, Eddie Robinson, etc; but I don't know to what degree he is at 75 (then) or 84 (now) a figurehead. Does everybody keep ugly details from JoePa? Is he a stuffed bear they trot out or is he active in running the program? I just don't know that so I'm saying if he's detached from the details then I could see him being unaware that it was happening.

I'm just saying hold up on the firing squad until we know what's happened and who did/knew/said/hid what.

toronto
11-09-2011, 11:22 AM
I know this much.

I've been watching sports religiously since I was 6 years old and this is the first time ever I have ever been morally disgusted, angry and wanting justice.

This story is just as ugly as it will ever get for sports.

toronto
11-09-2011, 11:26 AM
Joe paterno's current statement

http://www.canada.com/Statement+Paterno+Head+Coach+Penn+State+Nittany+Li ons+2011/5681219/story.html#ixzz1dDAHVgaw


STATE COLLEGE, Pa. - I am absolutely devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief.

I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today.

That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can.
This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.

My goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University.

That statement is laughable - the school is right now the focus point, and his department is responsible for the most revenue, and all of this is effected and to a degree paralyzed by his presence.

Worse is what he doesn't realize what's coming - he's likely going to be named in class action lawsuits. Its not going away Joe, unless you pass away, then your kids get to deal with your mess.

gary
11-09-2011, 11:29 AM
I would absolutely agree that he should retire right now. I think that's inevitable and the sooner he does it (even if every word he's said is true and he did not know the seriousness of the allegations) the better off he will be and the quicker this will be resolved. Sandusky is definitely going down. The administrators who covered up for him are going down. Paterno needs to get out of the way. Who he is and the position he's in there is taking away from the process that needs to happen. He's got his story and he's sticking to it. That's fine, step aside and let justice be served to the people who have it coming.He is old and I have personally seen where older folks in the work place just there doing their thing in the background without knowing what is going on from within. I would not doubt that at all in this case. Joe has been leagally cleared here and yet people just want to rag on him I almost want to send him a letter of support myself. What we have here is the public becoming morally tied to the victims and not looking at this story as an outsider.

Grams
11-09-2011, 11:46 AM
He is old and I have personally seen where older folks in the work place just there doing their thing in the background without knowing what is going on from within. I would not doubt that at all in this case. Joe has been leagally cleared here and yet people just want to rag on him I almost want to send him a letter of support myself. What we have here is the public becoming morally tied to the victims and not looking at this story as an outsider.


I am looking at this story as an outsider. He did what he legally should have done by notifying his superiors. But he also did not notify the police. He should have known the school did not notify the police when no one came to talk to him from the police dept or the state police or even the campus police.

For the "Integrity" of the school and himself he should have called the police when he was told of the incident. For a man with supposedly much integrity, he did not do what a man should have done. As a result other boys were abused.

I fault the grad-assistant coach even more as he just turned his back and did not stop it or call the police either.

Both men knew what was going on and neither went out of their way to stop it. That to me is the kicker.

eriadoc
11-09-2011, 11:55 AM
I don't think you know enough to say that. I think it really depends on what he knew and what he was told by McQueary. People keep saying "He HAD to know" but that's a fallicy. It's shocking what people don't know and what people don't notice going on right under their noses and evidence of that happens every day. The guy is in his 80's now (70's then) and I'm not at all shocked by the idea that he didn't know this was happening. Is it that strange to think that an elderly "figurehead type" coach might not know every detail of the program he sits on top of?

I think there is a very valid argument here that if they had a younger coach who was more involved and less of a "living mascot" then possibly that coach would have seen the signs and acted on them. I see Paterno's last decade as one of a program without a head coach at all. A coaching staff yes, a coach? Not so much.

If JoePa didn't know, it's because he didn't want to know. If any moral human being is informed of child abuse to this level, not only do they have a responsibility to notify the authorities, they damn well ought to have the moral fortitude to follow up on it and find out what the result was. How is the kid? How is the accused? What was the evidence? If it's his coach perpetrating, should he look to replace him? Hell, you get one reporter or TV personality saying some crazy shit and all his superiors want him fired, even if he doesn't directly work for them (Hank Williams, anyone?). But JoePa just puts in a call to his AD and washes his hands of the matter? That's complete bullshit.

And the fact that the man is 84 doesn't exonerate him one bit, in my eyes. It makes him even more culpable, because at age 84, you damn well know how the world works and how even people you think you know are capable of dastardly shit.

JoePa didn't know because he chose not to know.

Hervoyel
11-09-2011, 12:03 PM
If JoePa didn't know, it's because he didn't want to know. If any moral human being is informed of child abuse to this level, not only do they have a responsibility to notify the authorities, they damn well ought to have the moral fortitude to follow up on it and find out what the result was. How is the kid? How is the accused? What was the evidence? If it's his coach perpetrating, should he look to replace him? Hell, you get one reporter or TV personality saying some crazy shit and all his superiors want him fired, even if he doesn't directly work for them (Hank Williams, anyone?). But JoePa just puts in a call to his AD and washes his hands of the matter? That's complete bullshit.

And the fact that the man is 84 doesn't exonerate him one bit, in my eyes. It makes him even more culpable, because at age 84, you damn well know how the world works and how even people you think you know are capable of dastardly shit.

JoePa didn't know because he chose not to know.

And you know this because you want to know it. That wraps up nicely.

Hookem Horns
11-09-2011, 12:04 PM
He is old and I have personally seen where older folks in the work place just there doing their thing in the background without knowing what is going on from within. I would not doubt that at all in this case. Joe has been leagally cleared here and yet people just want to rag on him I almost want to send him a letter of support myself. What we have here is the public becoming morally tied to the victims and not looking at this story as an outsider.

Are you a PSU fan?

ArlingtonTexan
11-09-2011, 12:16 PM
And you know this because you want to know it. That wraps up nicely.

I can't place my hand on the link (got to work), but the indications are that the GA and his Dad were graphic in describing the situation to Joe Pa. This very he said versus he said, as such it is always hard if not impossible to prove.

toronto
11-09-2011, 12:16 PM
He is old and I have personally seen where older folks in the work place just there doing their thing in the background without knowing what is going on from within. I would not doubt that at all in this case. Joe has been leagally cleared here and yet people just want to rag on him I almost want to send him a letter of support myself. What we have here is the public becoming morally tied to the victims and not looking at this story as an outsider.

Being old is a ridiculous excuse - if anything that lends to the question why the hell an 84 year old is running a top Division 1 program.

9 years ago he made a morally bankrupt choice. Did he break the law? No. Did he break laws of simple and basic decency? Hell yes.

I don't want to rag on him. I simply want him gone. Its Sandusky and the administration that chose to cover this all up that I want behind bars.

PsychoLove
11-09-2011, 12:34 PM
All I'm saying is that I want to know what he knew. We probably will never find out now because the stock answer is going to be "I knew nothing" or at the very least "I knew very little".

I find it possible that he didn't know. This might be one of the few instances where I think there's a chance of that. Paterno was in his mid 70's when this took place if I'm not mistaken. He's 84 now. I don't know enough about the program there to say to what degree he's a figurehead. I also haven't come across any details regarding what McQueary presumably said to him. I saw something yesterday in the news about what he told Paterno differeing from the detailed version he gave the grand jury. How different?

I want to know more before torching Paterno but at the same time I confess I think the story is something I don't want to dig too deeply into. It's disturbing and I'm not being paid to find out who needs some swift justice here. I want justice, I just don't want to see Paterno burned at the stake if he didn't know the details of what happened.

What the hell you want, video? Anal semen samples? Be a live witness?

Isn't 20 victims enough right now?

Hervoyel
11-09-2011, 12:35 PM
I can't place my hand on the link (got to work), but the indications are that the GA and his Dad were graphic in describing the situation to Joe Pa. This very he said versus he said, as such it is always hard if not impossible to prove.

I understand. Everything I've seen has said otherwise. Like I said in one of my first posts in this thread it's going to be nearly impossible to know for certain what was said and what Paterno knew is the single most important thing about this as far as his actions are concerned.

Being old is a ridiculous excuse - if anything that lends to the question why the hell an 84 year old is running a top Division 1 program.

9 years ago he made a morally bankrupt choice. Did he break the law? No. Did he break laws of simple and basic decency? Hell yes.

I don't want to rag on him. I simply want him gone. Its Sandusky and the administration that chose to cover this all up that I want behind bars.

I want him gone too and think waiting until the end of the year is a mistake. The sooner he steps down the sooner they can tear it all down and start over and they're going to have to start over no matter what happened.

I don't think being old is a ridiculous excuse though. I think it's the only perfectly plausible excuse on the table. Being an old "legend" there puts him in a position where people don't want to tell him bad news. People don't want to upset him. People are hesitant to bring things like this to him. People insulate and protect figures like that.

Sometimes.

Maybe he did screw up. He's saying as much now and saying that he wishes he'd pursued it further. I just don't think it's inconcievable that Paterno didn't get the full story. It's possible. That's all I'm saying. Doesn't change the fact that now it's a moot point and he needs to step down.

Hervoyel
11-09-2011, 12:45 PM
What the hell you want, video? Anal semen samples? Be a live witness?

Isn't 20 victims enough right now?


You're talking about this with emotion and I'm being reasonable. If you can find me 20 victims that Joe Paterno personally sodomized then I'm going to concede the point but Sandusky is the rapist pedophile and Paterno is the football coach who reported what he was told to his superior.

IF he was told that Sandusky was sodomizing a 10 year old in no uncertain terms then the only appropriate response was "Call the police right now".

If McQueary and his father beat around the bush and found a way to say just enough to clear their conscience (How you do that after you saw a kid being molested and did nothing I don't know) and left him with a "What are they talking about, I'm going to call the AD and get him to look into it" idea then maybe that was the appropriate response.

You don't know what he was or wasn't told. I don't either. All I'm saying is that before you crucify the guy (and he may have that coming to him) you might want to have an idea what he knew.

Suggesting that we take the time to find out all the facts before wiping this guy out is not the same thing as demanding that we get a ten year old out and sodomize him front of JoePa to see if he understands the specifics of the act. Take your moral outrage and your slowly forming straw-man argument (not inclined to wait around to be lumped in with the folks at Penn State thank you) somewhere else. I've been perfectly clear about this.

cuppacoffee
11-09-2011, 12:56 PM
Gary I love you man - but why the hell are you defending Paterno? Put yourself in the shoes of one of those boys. At best JoePa turned a blind eye to child abuse, and at worst he knowingly let it happen. How can you support a man who would do that just for the sake of retaining the prestige of himself and Penn St?

Is that what he did or is it just because of the way he handled it? DB said I have a lot to learn. Please. I know what I would have done but I am not everyone. Why do I still have much to learn, because I stand by my unpopular opinion? What has happened to everyone having a fair say? Not today pepole not today.


I am as disgusted as the next person about what happened at Penn State.

Reading this thread gives me visions of a lynch mob in an old western movie.

It’s easy to see how vigilante groups were formed back in the day.

Just an observation, not a judgment call.

:coffee:

PsychoLove
11-09-2011, 01:00 PM
You're talking about this with emotion and I'm being reasonable. If you can find me 20 victims that Joe Paterno personally sodomized then I'm going to concede the point but Sandusky is the rapist pedophile and Paterno is the football coach who reported what he was told to his superior.

IF he was told that Sandusky was sodomizing a 10 year old in no uncertain terms then the only appropriate response was "Call the police right now".

If McQueary and his father beat around the bush and found a way to say just enough to clear their conscience (How you do that after you saw a kid being molested and did nothing I don't know) and left him with a "What are they talking about, I'm going to call the AD and get him to look into it" idea then maybe that was the appropriate response.

You don't know what he was or wasn't told. I don't either. All I'm saying is that before you crucify the guy (and he may have that coming to him) you might want to have an idea what he knew.

Suggesting that we take the time to find out all the facts before wiping this guy out is not the same thing as demanding that we get a ten year old out and sodomize him front of JoePa to see if he understands the specifics of the act. Take your moral outrage and your slowly forming straw-man argument (not inclined to wait around to be lumped in with the folks at Penn State thank you) somewhere else. I've been perfectly clear about this.

If JoePa runs out to the field against Nebraska this weekend, it will be a shame. We are not talking about 1 or 2 kids here. We are talking about at least 20. If JoePa had gone to the police, many kids would have normal lives today. I hope you have read the transcript.

Honoring Earl 34
11-09-2011, 01:00 PM
[QUOTE=gary;1823907]


I am as disgusted as the next person about what happened at Penn State.

Reading this thread gives me visions of a lynch mob in an old western movie.

It’s easy to see how vigilante groups were formed back in the day.

Just an observation, not a judgment call.

:coffee:

So you want a pitchfork or an axe ?

Grams
11-09-2011, 01:28 PM
The more I read about this, the more angry I become.

Everyone wants to crucify Paterno - rightly so. He needs to retire immediately.

But almost everyone is forgetting that a grown man saw the rape in the showers and all he did was turn his back on the 10 year old boy and walk back to his office and call his Dad instead of the police. Then waited till the next day to call Paterno who also waited a day to call the AD.

Why aren't more calling for his resignation also.

They talk about integrity and honor at Penn State. But there is none. All each and everyone of them were doing was trying to protect the University from a scandal. It would have been over and done with, if they had just called the police at that time. They would have been thought of as heros to stop this back in 2002.

In this day and age, it will be a long long time before the dust settles. JoePa now has a not so stellar reputation. The school and it leaders will be looked upon as men trying to save their reputations instead of trying to save young boys from a sexual predator.

I still cannot understand how a grown man can turn his back and walk away from a young boy being sodomized.

Honoring Earl 34
11-09-2011, 01:53 PM
The more I read about this, the more angry I become.

Everyone wants to crucify Paterno - rightly so. He needs to retire immediately.

But almost everyone is forgetting that a grown man saw the rape in the showers and all he did was turn his back on the 10 year old boy and walk back to his office and call his Dad instead of the police. Then waited till the next day to call Paterno who also waited a day to call the AD.

Why aren't more calling for his resignation also.

They talk about integrity and honor at Penn State. But there is none. All each and everyone of them were doing was trying to protect the University from a scandal. It would have been over and done with, if they had just called the police at that time. They would have been thought of as heros to stop this back in 2002.

In this day and age, it will be a long long time before the dust settles. JoePa now has a not so stellar reputation. The school and it leaders will be looked upon as men trying to save their reputations instead of trying to save young boys from a sexual predator.

I still cannot understand how a grown man can turn his back and walk away from a young boy being sodomized.

That's the strange part about being bigger than the rules . Not just any rules but rules of decency and what's moral . Was he afraid that by ratting on or bashing Sandusky upside the head he was going to get in trouble ?

drewmar74
11-09-2011, 01:59 PM
[QUOTE=cuppacoffee;1824019]

So you want a pitchfork or an axe ?

I'll take a torch, thank you very much.

utahmark
11-09-2011, 02:19 PM
For anyone that thinks that Joe should be left alone because he may not of done anything wrong by legal standards I have to say, Who gives a shit. This country is falling apart because 90% of the people in power of this country will do everything they can to abuse and work their way around every loop hole they can find, within our legal system, to either stay in power or get more power. Most sane people will put morals ahead of the law everytime and if your not one of those people then you might want to take another look at yourself.

eriadoc
11-09-2011, 02:24 PM
The more I read about this, the more angry I become.

Likewise. I keep telling myself I'll turn off the news and not click this thread.

Everyone wants to crucify Paterno - rightly so. He needs to retire immediately.

But almost everyone is forgetting that a grown man saw the rape in the showers and all he did was turn his back on the 10 year old boy and walk back to his office and call his Dad instead of the police.

I'm trying not to come into this thread, much less post, but that was one of the first things that came to mind for me. If I were that 28 year old grad assistant and I walked in on that, there would be blood on the shower floor. I'd call the cops after and let them sort it out afterward, but there would have been some tossing around of a pedophile rapist.

Everyone involved in this case failed and is a disgustingly immoral human being that deserves to die a slow, painful, medieval death. That's about as nicely as I can put it.

Honoring Earl 34
11-09-2011, 03:05 PM
I feel terrible for the players. They had nothing to do with this. Their next game is Senior Day. That's just terrible for them that all of this will mar their day. Plus, with all of the distractions. They are still going for a Big Ten Championship. It's quite unfortunate for them.

Yep ... there's no way they can't be distracted or feel like crawling under a rock .

Honoring Earl 34
11-09-2011, 03:09 PM
Likewise. I keep telling myself I'll turn off the news and not click this thread.



I'm trying not to come into this thread, much less post, but that was one of the first things that came to mind for me. If I were that 28 year old grad assistant and I walked in on that, there would be blood on the shower floor. I'd call the cops after and let them sort it out afterward, but there would have been some tossing around of a pedophile rapist.

Everyone involved in this case failed and is a disgustingly immoral human being that deserves to die a slow, painful, medieval death. That's about as nicely as I can put it.

http://www.anotherwineblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/marcellus_wallace.jpg

Vinny
11-09-2011, 03:14 PM
You're talking about this with emotion and I'm being reasonable. If you can find me 20 victims that Joe Paterno personally sodomized then I'm going to concede the point but Sandusky is the rapist pedophile and Paterno is the football coach who reported what he was told to his superior.

IF he was told that Sandusky was sodomizing a 10 year old in no uncertain terms then the only appropriate response was "Call the police right now".

If McQueary and his father beat around the bush and found a way to say just enough to clear their conscience (How you do that after you saw a kid being molested and did nothing I don't know) and left him with a "What are they talking about, I'm going to call the AD and get him to look into it" idea then maybe that was the appropriate response.

You don't know what he was or wasn't told. I don't either. All I'm saying is that before you crucify the guy (and he may have that coming to him) you might want to have an idea what he knew.

Suggesting that we take the time to find out all the facts before wiping this guy out is not the same thing as demanding that we get a ten year old out and sodomize him front of JoePa to see if he understands the specifics of the act. Take your moral outrage and your slowly forming straw-man argument (not inclined to wait around to be lumped in with the folks at Penn State thank you) somewhere else. I've been perfectly clear about this.
A graduate assistant testifies to a Grand Jury that he heard "rythmic slapping noises" in the shower and saw Sandusky with a 10 year old kid up against the wall in a manner that cops frisk perps and he was being raped. He immediately called his Father and THEY BOTH went to Paterno's house for a meeting. If you are to believe Paterno I'm not sure you are using logic. Let's say he just stopped their story short and told them "I don't want to hear the details, but I'll pass on your allegation to my boss". Logic states that Paterno is a man of deep integrity and is a cultural institution in a powerful University. Why would Paterno do this? He wouldn't. Paterno would ask a few questions if they beat around the bush. If they told him that there was a 10 year old kid in the shower with his Coach, you don't think that he'd want to know everything that happened? Paterno didn't get to be a great head coach by skipping over the main details of any problem to be solved.

It's a massive, gigantic leap of logic to think Paterno didn't know based on the testimony to a grand jury by all the parties. Paterno's ability to hide behind a loophole in a poorly written law that helps large corporations and institutions is another sad, sad issue in itself. I mean why is the law crafted so that anyone in any institution can just say, "I told my boss" and that exonerates him from his duty to protect ten year old children? What kind of crap law is this? All it does is help people pass the buck. I don't remember what the law is called but it needs to be renamed the "pass the buck" law. Its friggin' disturbing that so many stupid people write our laws and "protect" our children with yet more servings of corporate helper.

Last point, I think it is a stretch to believe that a man of deep integrity, a leader of Men, a man who has built a life on hard work and fairness would not wonder why nobody called the police after he reported this to his "boss". If you stretch your logic enough you can believe that Joe Paterno wasn't told the entire truth in that meeting at his house so many years ago.

If you haven't read this (http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1107/espn_e_Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf), you don't know anything. Not directing that at you herv...just to those who haven't read the Grand Jury's findings. Keep in mind, that was 11 months ago and Sandusky was on JoePa's campus as short a period as two weeks ago.

Honoring Earl 34
11-09-2011, 03:26 PM
A graduate assistant testifies to a Grand Jury that he heard "rythmic slapping noises" in the shower and saw Sandusky with a 10 year old kid up against the wall in a manner that cops frisk perps and he was being raped. He immediately called his Father and THEY BOTH went to Paterno's house for a meeting. If you are to believe Paterno I'm not sure you are using logic. Let's say he just stopped their story short and told them "I don't want to hear the details, but I'll pass on your allegation to my boss". Logic states that Paterno is a man of deep integrity and is a cultural institution in a powerful University. Why would Paterno do this? He wouldn't. Paterno would ask a few questions if they beat around the bush. If they told him that there was a 10 year old kid in the shower with his Coach, you don't think that he'd want to know everything that happened? Paterno didn't get to be a great head coach by skipping over the main details of any problem to be solved.

It's a massive, gigantic leap of logic to think Paterno didn't know based on the testimony to a grand jury by all the parties. Paterno's ability to hide behind a loophole in a poorly written law that helps large corporations and institutions is another sad, sad issue in itself. I mean why is the law crafted so that anyone in any institution can just say, "I told my boss" and that exonerates him from his duty to protect ten year old children? What kind of crap law is this? All it does is help people pass the buck. I don't remember what the law is called but it needs to be renamed the "pass the buck" law. Its friggin' disturbing that so many stupid people write our laws and "protect" our children with yet more servings of corporate helper.

Last point, I think it is a stretch to believe that a man of deep integrity, a leader of Men, a man who has built a life on hard work and fairness would not wonder why nobody called the police after he reported this to his "boss". If you stretch your logic enough you can believe that Joe Paterno wasn't told the entire truth in that meeting at his house so many years ago.

If you haven't read this (http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1107/espn_e_Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf), you don't know anything. Not directing that at you herv...just to those who haven't read the Grand Jury's findings. Keep in mind, that was 11 months ago and Sandusky was on JoePa's campus as short a period as two weeks ago.

The scary part is what was Sandusky's leverage to come and go after all that ?

eriadoc
11-09-2011, 03:27 PM
A graduate assistant testifies to a Grand Jury that he heard "rythmic slapping noises" in the shower and saw Sandusky with a 10 year old kid up against the wall in a manner that cops frisk perps and he was being raped. He immediately called his Father and THEY BOTH went to Paterno's house for a meeting. If you are to believe Paterno I'm not sure you are using logic. Let's say he just stopped their story short and told them "I don't want to hear the details, but I'll pass on your allegation to my boss". Logic states that Paterno is a man of deep integrity and is a cultural institution in a powerful University. Why would Paterno do this? He wouldn't. Paterno would ask a few questions if they beat around the bush. If they told him that there was a 10 year old kid in the shower with his Coach, you don't think that he'd want to know everything that happened? Paterno didn't get to be a great head coach by skipping over the main details of any problem to be solved.

It's a massive, gigantic leap of logic to think Paterno didn't know based on the testimony to a grand jury by all the parties. Paterno's ability to hide behind a loophole in a poorly written law that helps large corporations and institutions is another sad, sad issue in itself. I mean why is the law crafted so that anyone in any institution can just say, "I told my boss" and that exonerates him from his duty to protect ten year old children? What kind of crap law is this? All it does is help people pass the buck. I don't remember what the law is called but it needs to be renamed the "pass the buck" law. Its friggin' disturbing that so many stupid people write our laws and "protect" our children with yet more servings of corporate helper.

Last point, I think it is a stretch to believe that a man of deep integrity, a leader of Men, a man who has built a life on hard work and fairness would not wonder why nobody called the police after he reported this to his "boss". If you stretch your logic enough you can believe that Joe Paterno wasn't told the entire truth in that meeting at his house so many years ago.

If you haven't read this (http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1107/espn_e_Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf), you don't know anything. Not directing that at you herv...just to those who haven't read the Grand Jury's findings. Keep in mind, that was 11 months ago and Sandusky was on JoePa's campus as short a period as two weeks ago.

Like I said above, Paterno either knew or he did his damn dead level best to avoid knowing. Either way, it's willful negligence and he enabled Sandusky. As you noted, the grand jury presentment was almost a year ago, yet Sandusky was still hanging around.

The1ApplePie
11-09-2011, 03:29 PM
I wonder who plays Joe Pa when Law and Order "rips this from the headlines."

With the twist that he originally raped the Sundusky character of course

Hardcore Texan
11-09-2011, 03:36 PM
Legality. Ha. We all break laws moron. Nobody is calling for my head for speeding to get home earlier. Some words on a piece of paper somewhere is what you and Pappy Slappy can hide behind. The MONSTER he tried to hide will ALWAYS be visible.

You hear something? What is it. Oh, it's a guy raping a kid. What on the face of the planet would stop you from a) kicking the shit outta that guy b) calling the police and my goodness c) disassociate with the monster who raped children in YOUR house?

Legally Joe Paterno might be in the clear. Morally he's got a thousand pound weight strapped to his back. Socially, he's ****ed.

The bolded!

How do you not intervene and put an immediate stop to something like that. And if you are too much of a wuss to protect the child then call the damn cops. It's pretty simple!

Same thing applies if you are out shopping and see someone strike a kid. Don't know about you, but I am stepping in. I'll let the cops sort out who goes to jail, but not on my watch buddy. No. Excuse. Period.

And if I get my ass whooped then so be it, at least it's not the kid getting abused!

JCTexan
11-09-2011, 03:38 PM
The statement just given by Joe makes me sad, God bless him he gave his heart and soul for that school but the director should go to hell and burn. Joe did not follow the morals of the majority so he is now evil. Look at those who showed up at his home last night to support him good for them.

He is old and I have personally seen where older folks in the work place just there doing their thing in the background without knowing what is going on from within. I would not doubt that at all in this case. Joe has been leagally cleared here and yet people just want to rag on him I almost want to send him a letter of support myself. What we have here is the public becoming morally tied to the victims and not looking at this story as an outsider.

Seriously? The AD should burn in hell but you give Paterno your support when he was the one who notified the athletic director of what was happening?

Runner
11-09-2011, 03:54 PM
A graduate assistant testifies to a Grand Jury that he heard "rythmic slapping noises" in the shower and saw Sandusky with a 10 year old kid up against the wall in a manner that cops frisk perps and he was being raped. He immediately called his Father and THEY BOTH went to Paterno's house for a meeting. If you are to believe Paterno I'm not sure you are using logic. Let's say he just stopped their story short and told them "I don't want to hear the details, but I'll pass on your allegation to my boss". Logic states that Paterno is a man of deep integrity and is a cultural institution in a powerful University. Why would Paterno do this? He wouldn't. Paterno would ask a few questions if they beat around the bush. If they told him that there was a 10 year old kid in the shower with his Coach, you don't think that he'd want to know everything that happened? Paterno didn't get to be a great head coach by skipping over the main details of any problem to be solved.

It's a massive, gigantic leap of logic to think Paterno didn't know based on the testimony to a grand jury by all the parties. Paterno's ability to hide behind a loophole in a poorly written law that helps large corporations and institutions is another sad, sad issue in itself. I mean why is the law crafted so that anyone in any institution can just say, "I told my boss" and that exonerates him from his duty to protect ten year old children? What kind of crap law is this? All it does is help people pass the buck. I don't remember what the law is called but it needs to be renamed the "pass the buck" law. Its friggin' disturbing that so many stupid people write our laws and "protect" our children with yet more servings of corporate helper.

Last point, I think it is a stretch to believe that a man of deep integrity, a leader of Men, a man who has built a life on hard work and fairness would not wonder why nobody called the police after he reported this to his "boss". If you stretch your logic enough you can believe that Joe Paterno wasn't told the entire truth in that meeting at his house so many years ago.

If you haven't read this (http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1107/espn_e_Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf), you don't know anything. Not directing that at you herv...just to those who haven't read the Grand Jury's findings. Keep in mind, that was 11 months ago and Sandusky was on JoePa's campus as short a period as two weeks ago.

All right. I've been wavering on the idea that Paterno could have been kept in the dark. This convinces me he had to know unless he deliberately avoided knowing. The in-person visit by witness and father was something I wasn't aware of. I've been reading summaries and didn't see that detail.

The more data I see, the more confounded I am that this could happen. It's pathetic.

Double Barrel
11-09-2011, 04:15 PM
Like I said above, Paterno either knew or he did his damn dead level best to avoid knowing. Either way, it's willful negligence and he enabled Sandusky. As you noted, the grand jury presentment was almost a year ago, yet Sandusky was still hanging around.

According to the report posted by Vinny:

"Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and report to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

That's about as black and white as it gets.

Paterno, like the graduate assistant and his father, along with all the others involved, are freakin' pieces of shit.

And for any ***** that claims that I am posting out of emotion, YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I AM!! This story angers me at such a basic, fundamental level that I'd volunteer to be on a firing squad to exterminate this wretched filth from humanity. Every damn single one of them.

HealingBullets
11-09-2011, 04:21 PM
I have been reading about this and listening to various media opinions.

It just comes down to the facts: they knew what was going on in 1998 - when he "retired".


This is the true bottom line in this deal...Sandusky was a known molester back in 1998 .....He was "retired" by Penn State because of these issues...The claim that this came out of left field in 2002 when Sandusky continues to molest kids is absolute hogwash. The truth is that what happened in 2002 is obviously a continuation of the cover up that began years earlier.

PsychoLove
11-09-2011, 04:31 PM
The NCAA should official change the schools name to "State Penn".

toronto
11-09-2011, 04:32 PM
I don't care about the Seniors getting screwed out of senior day. This game on Saturday, especially with Paterno likely still there, needs to be cancelled.

Otherwise you will have 106,000 gathered for a support Joe Paterno pep rally, and the kids that went through this hell will go through it all over again.

Paterno resigns or is fired today, different story maybe.

But there is NOT a single person at PSU standing up to the football program right now. Paterno if frigging calling the shots, even around all of this mayhem. Its like he's basically the defacto university president and no one there has the power or balls to get him the hell out of there.

Someone, ANYONE with power, hell get the frigging NCAA President or Big Ten President (has he uttered a word either????) involved and stop this before we're all subjected to one of the worst displays you will ever see on TV in our lifetime.

If this goes through, I will never support NCAA athletics again. Not a single ****ing dime.

Honoring Earl 34
11-09-2011, 04:32 PM
According to the report posted by Vinny:

"Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and report to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

That's about as black and white as it gets.

Paterno, like the graduate assistant and his father, along with all the others involved, are freakin' pieces of shit.

And for any ***** that claims that I am posting out of emotion, YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I AM!! This story angers me at such a basic, fundamental level that I'd volunteer to be on a firing squad to exterminate this wretched filth from humanity. Every damn single one of them.

I think it's just a paternal instinct to want to protect kids .

NitroGSXR
11-09-2011, 04:38 PM
The scary part is what was Sandusky's leverage to come and go after all that ?

Bingo. A world of depravity is tucked within the Nittany Lions. Sandusky's testimony in exchange for a reduced sentence?

When I say reduced, I mean 5 oz less gasoline.

Hervoyel
11-09-2011, 06:12 PM
All right. I've been wavering on the idea that Paterno could have been kept in the dark. This convinces me he had to know unless he deliberately avoided knowing. The in-person visit by witness and father was something I wasn't aware of. I've been reading summaries and didn't see that detail.

The more data I see, the more confounded I am that this could happen. It's pathetic.

Likewise. I finally read this thing and it wasn't easy. I am convinced as well.

Immensely disturbing stuff going on here. It looks more like a cabal of powerful people doing everything they can to keep the university looking good. The story around Paterno rings more of people providing a "legend" with plausible deniability than anything else (and doing a poor job of it at that).

I'm firmly in the "Knew or didn't know intentionally" camp.

ArlingtonTexan
11-09-2011, 06:28 PM
This is the true bottom line in this deal...Sandusky was a known molester back in 1998 .....He was "retired" by Penn State because of these issues...The claim that this came out of left field in 2002 when Sandusky continues to molest kids is absolute hogwash. The truth is that what happened in 2002 is obviously a continuation of the cover up that began years earlier.

It would seem so. I mean Sandusky was in his mid 50s and while not "young" by coaching circles, he was not yet old. I mean with his reputation as a coach, no other major program would come and try to money whip him out of "retirement." My guess is that his troubles were not only known by Penn State, but within the college coaching community. (I am just speculating of course)

Double Barrel
11-09-2011, 06:53 PM
Likewise. I finally read this thing and it wasn't easy. I am convinced as well.

Immensely disturbing stuff going on here. It looks more like a cabal of powerful people doing everything they can to keep the university looking good. The story around Paterno rings more of people providing a "legend" with plausible deniability than anything else (and doing a poor job of it at that).

I'm firmly in the "Knew or didn't know intentionally" camp.

I have no doubt that he knew.

Paterno himself testified that he told Curley "that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

Those are his words.

He might not have known specific details, but he damn sure knew that a young boy was being molested by Sandusky in the shower. His own testimony confirms his guilt.

In light of this, I cannot believe the school will trot that old bastard out there at a football game and hundreds of moronic students continue to pep rally for him. It's a sad, sad world.

The1ApplePie
11-09-2011, 06:57 PM
I don't care about the Seniors getting screwed out of senior day. This game on Saturday, especially with Paterno likely still there, needs to be cancelled.

Otherwise you will have 106,000 gathered for a support Joe Paterno pep rally, and the kids that went through this hell will go through it all over again.

Paterno resigns or is fired today, different story maybe.

But there is NOT a single person at PSU standing up to the football program right now. Paterno if frigging calling the shots, even around all of this mayhem. Its like he's basically the defacto university president and no one there has the power or balls to get him the hell out of there.

Someone, ANYONE with power, hell get the frigging NCAA President or Big Ten President (has he uttered a word either????) involved and stop this before we're all subjected to one of the worst displays you will ever see on TV in our lifetime.

If this goes through, I will never support NCAA athletics again. Not a single ****ing dime.

The pep rally on Joe's lawn this morning was pretty ****ed up as it is.

Vinny
11-09-2011, 10:22 PM
Paterno has just been fired after the Board of Trustees met in University Park. Tom Bradley now interim coach.

Runner
11-09-2011, 10:27 PM
Paterno has just been fired after the Board of Trustees met in University Park. Tom Bradley now interim coach.

Wow. That is a very fast fall for a man of such (former) stature. Or slow, if you look at it as twelve years too late.

Vinny
11-09-2011, 10:39 PM
I hope everyone whining for his firing is happy. The football program will suffer for many years to come.
I read this in an article and at least the Board has been swift with the hammer.
dude, your low character rants aren't wanted here. Who gives a crap about brand protection and protecting the football program if they are hiding crimes against humanity?

Texecutioner
11-09-2011, 10:47 PM
The thing that gets me about this case is that people are wanting to burn Joe Pa at the stake and the more I read into it, it does sound like he should have done more to get this coach out of there and anyone involved I'd say. Just skimming some of the pages in here, I"m finding out more and more and it's harder and harder to see the POV of some of the posters who want to defend Joe Pa. He wasn't the perpetrator though, and I can't believe that he is being WAY more talked about and burned here than the actual guy who did it.

What gets me the most is all of the inconsistencies on this subject though. Shoot, for the last few years I've been having to hear posters on this board, celebs, and other random folks all over the place praising the biggest child molester of all time in Michael Jackson who had a pedophile ranch, paid off his accusers, openly admitted to doing all types of things that were obvious as day, and yet so many people have turned a blind eye to all of that and just stated that he was "weird" or that his daddy messed him up and all types of pathetic spin efforts. Sorry, but this may be from left field, but I think half the people in this thread that are wanting Joe Pa burned at the stake are big time hypocrites, because I remember hearing a lot of people celebrating MJ when he passed and wanting to "look the other way" every time it was mentioned, and MJ was far bigger than this story if people really wanted to read about all of that stuff that went on. MIKE TYSON is another perfect example as well. Dude raped a woman and sexually assaulted Peter Welcsh's daughter when she was a minor and also beat the living crap out of Robyn Givens, yet Mike Tyson is hardly ever even mentioned amongst rapists and guys of this kind and his career and his legacy is constantly being headlined and covered as if these things never happened. It is sounding more and more like Joe Pa's criticisms here are warrented though, the more that I read about what he "had to have known" at certain points. Joe Pa could have had this guy fired no question. He had more power and seniority than anyone at that program.

Sorry, I know that this post is going to tick a few people off. It wasn't my intention, so I'll apologize for how it may have come off, but if rape and pedophilia is so wrong which it damn sure is, then folks need to be a lot more consistent when putting the clues together and turning a blind eye because of who they like or dislike as entertainers, coaches, and athletes.

Runner
11-09-2011, 10:49 PM
dude, your low character rants aren't wanted here. Who gives a crap about brand protection and protecting the football program if they are hiding crimes against humanity?

Yep. Everyone is appalled by enablers and somebody here is just as bad.

"Fire a guy because he covered up child rape and thus allowed it to happen to other innocent children? What about the football?"

Sounds just like the thoughts the Penn State staff had. "We can't call the cops! What about the football?"

Low class is being generous.

Vinny
11-09-2011, 10:50 PM
The thing that gets me about this case is that people are wanting to burn Joe Pa at the stake and the more I read into it, it does sound like he should have done more to get this coach out of there and anyone involved I'd say. Just skimming some of the pages in here, I"m finding out more and more and it's harder and harder to see the POV of some of the posters who want to defend Joe Pa. He wasn't the perpetrator though, and I can't believe that he is being WAY more talked about and burned here than the actual guy who did it.

What gets me the most is all of the inconsistencies on this subject though. Shoot, for the last few years I've been having to hear posters on this board, celebs, and other random folks all over the place praising the biggest child molester of all time in Michael Jackson who had a pedophile ranch, paid off his accusers, openly admitted to doing all types of things that were obvious as day, and yet so many people have turned a blind eye to all of that and just stated that he was "weird" or that his daddy messed him up and all types of pathetic spin efforts. Sorry, but this may be from left field, but I think half the people in this thread that are wanting Joe Pa burned at the stake are big time hypocrites, because I remember hearing a lot of people celebrating MJ when he passed and wanting to "look the other way" every time it was mentioned, and MJ was far bigger than this story if people really wanted to read about all of that stuff that went on. MIKE TYSON is another perfect example as well. Dude raped a woman and sexually assaulted Peter Welcsh's daughter when she was a minor and also beat the living crap out of Robyn Givens, yet Mike Tyson is hardly ever even mentioned amongst rapists and guys of this kind and his career and his legacy is constantly being headlined and covered as if these things never happened.

Sorry, I know that this post is going to tick a few people off. It wasn't my intention, so I'll apologize for how it may have come off, but if rape and pedophilia is so wrong which it damn sure is, then folks need to be a lot more consistent when putting the clues together and turning a blind eye because of who they like or dislike as entertainers, coaches, and athletes.
can you give an example of one of us condoning pedophilia or rape? Name some names or this post is just irrational ranting.

thunderkyss
11-09-2011, 10:53 PM
I'm only going to make this one post in this thread. People talk all the time about doing the right thing. Lucky for us, we are rarely put in a situation where doing the right thing really matters.

I hope, & pray if any of us are in this type of situation we have the fortitude to act on our convictions & not merely pass the buck as is the more common response.

Texecutioner
11-09-2011, 10:56 PM
Yep. Everyone is appalled by enablers and somebody here is just as bad.

"Fire a guy because he covered up child rape and thus allowed it to happen to other innocent children? What about the football?"

Sounds just like the thoughts the Penn State staff had. We can't call the cops! What about the football?

Low class is being generous.

I agree with what you're saying here. Joe Pa had the power to rid this guy of the program without losing his job like some of the others might have. He should have pushed until this guy was axed once he heard things that had happened and especially once it was the 2nd time.

What I can't understand is the flip flop though on folks who don't care or who haven't chastised the Jackson family and all of the other enablers that surrounded him for like 20 years. One celeb does a whole lot more and is still celebrated and all of a sudden this 84 year old coach who was just a co worker that seemed to have known is being slayed here. Shame on Joe either way though.

Hardcore Texan
11-09-2011, 10:56 PM
The thing that gets me about this case is that people are wanting to burn Joe Pa at the stake and the more I read into it, it does sound like he should have done more to get this coach out of there and anyone involved I'd say. Just skimming some of the pages in here, I"m finding out more and more and it's harder and harder to see the POV of some of the posters who want to defend Joe Pa. He wasn't the perpetrator though, and I can't believe that he is being WAY more talked about and burned here than the actual guy who did it.

What gets me the most is all of the inconsistencies on this subject though. Shoot, for the last few years I've been having to hear posters on this board, celebs, and other random folks all over the place praising the biggest child molester of all time in Michael Jackson who had a pedophile ranch, paid off his accusers, openly admitted to doing all types of things that were obvious as day, and yet so many people have turned a blind eye to all of that and just stated that he was "weird" or that his daddy messed him up and all types of pathetic spin efforts. Sorry, but this may be from left field, but I think half the people in this thread that are wanting Joe Pa burned at the stake are big time hypocrites, because I remember hearing a lot of people celebrating MJ when he passed and wanting to "look the other way" every time it was mentioned, and MJ was far bigger than this story if people really wanted to read about all of that stuff that went on. MIKE TYSON is another perfect example as well. Dude raped a woman and sexually assaulted Peter Welcsh's daughter when she was a minor and also beat the living crap out of Robyn Givens, yet Mike Tyson is hardly ever even mentioned amongst rapists and guys of this kind and his career and his legacy is constantly being headlined and covered as if these things never happened.

Sorry, I know that this post is going to tick a few people off. It wasn't my intention, so I'll apologize for how it may have come off, but if rape and pedophilia is so wrong which it damn sure is, then folks need to be a lot more consistent when putting the clues together and turning a blind eye because of who they like or dislike as entertainers, coaches, and athletes.

Problem is you are looking for more consistenty from different groups/posters.

I think you are lumping different groups together. Can you say the same people that "turned a blind eye" to MJ are now the same that are wanting to "burn joepa at the stake" as you put it. How on earth would you know it's the same folks and why would you expect consistency?


IMO, and I have read this entire thread, most people are not "burning joepa at the stake". I think most think he should be fired, and he should be! Maybe even serve some jailtime for not reporting an alleged crime involving sex abuse of a child, I believe someone stated that is a law in that state. That dipshit didn't call the cops, failure to report an alleged crime by so many folks. It's sickening all the way around.

Maybe you're not hearing so much about Sandusky because it's a slam dunk he should have the book thrown at him. It's not even debatable.

MJ, you won't hear me say anything good about him either. Nor Tyson, but at least he did serve SOME time in prison.

All child molesters should be extinguished. Period. There's consistency for ya.

Hardcore Texan
11-09-2011, 10:59 PM
I agree with what you're saying here. Joe Pa had the power to rid this guy of the program without losing his job like some of the others might have. He should have pushed until this guy was axed once he heard things that had happened and especially once it was the 2nd time.

What I can't understand is the flip flop though on folks who don't care or who haven't chastised the Jackson family and all of the other enablers that surrounded him for like 20 years. One celeb does a whole lot more and is still celebrated and all of a sudden this 84 year old coach who was just a co worker that seemed to have known is being slayed here. Shame on Joe either way though.


Sandusky was retired. No job to lose man. Retired in 1998 after other previous allegations that happened before this event in 2002. At which point was finally told he could no longer bring children from his charity to campus. I mean only an eye witness gave JoePa his full account of catching this guy raping a kid, a guy with previous charges against him. Up until 2 weeks ago was still all around the university. This is bad all the way around, bigtime cover up by all.

Htownsportsfan
11-09-2011, 11:01 PM
The thing that gets me about this case is that people are wanting to burn Joe Pa at the stake and the more I read into it, it does sound like he should have done more to get this coach out of there and anyone involved I'd say. Just skimming some of the pages in here, I"m finding out more and more and it's harder and harder to see the POV of some of the posters who want to defend Joe Pa. He wasn't the perpetrator though, and I can't believe that he is being WAY more talked about and burned here than the actual guy who did it.

What gets me the most is all of the inconsistencies on this subject though. Shoot, for the last few years I've been having to hear posters on this board, celebs, and other random folks all over the place praising the biggest child molester of all time in Michael Jackson who had a pedophile ranch, paid off his accusers, openly admitted to doing all types of things that were obvious as day, and yet so many people have turned a blind eye to all of that and just stated that he was "weird" or that his daddy messed him up and all types of pathetic spin efforts. Sorry, but this may be from left field, but I think half the people in this thread that are wanting Joe Pa burned at the stake are big time hypocrites, because I remember hearing a lot of people celebrating MJ when he passed and wanting to "look the other way" every time it was mentioned, and MJ was far bigger than this story if people really wanted to read about all of that stuff that went on. MIKE TYSON is another perfect example as well. Dude raped a woman and sexually assaulted Peter Welcsh's daughter when she was a minor and also beat the living crap out of Robyn Givens, yet Mike Tyson is hardly ever even mentioned amongst rapists and guys of this kind and his career and his legacy is constantly being headlined and covered as if these things never happened. It is sounding more and more like Joe Pa's criticisms here are warrented though, the more that I read about what he "had to have known" at certain points. Joe Pa could have had this guy fired no question. He had more power and seniority than anyone at that program.

Sorry, I know that this post is going to tick a few people off. It wasn't my intention, so I'll apologize for how it may have come off, but if rape and pedophilia is so wrong which it damn sure is, then folks need to be a lot more consistent when putting the clues together and turning a blind eye because of who they like or dislike as entertainers, coaches, and athletes.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but after reading the 23 page indictment Paternos story just doesnt make sense. The graduate assistant who saw the assault take place and went to see Paterno. I dont give a damn if he only used the word fondle when he tried to describe what he saw. Do you really think at that point Paterno would not be so shocked he would ask for every detail to try and prove it was a misunderstanding? If someone came to you and told you they saw someone you knew well for over 30 years touching a child let alone sodomising a ten year old boy you wouldn't demand more detail? If Paterno dint demand more information then he is beyond inept! The only thing Paterno did along with the Ad was tell Sandusky he wasnt allowed to bring young kids into the facility anymore. Joe Pa was a great football coach and man for many years but his inaction helped a child predator continue his assault on kids. That is inexcusable for anyone in any position!

Texecutioner
11-09-2011, 11:01 PM
can you give an example of one of us condoning pedophilia or rape? Name some names or this post is just irrational ranting.

Not really wanting to get into a fight and call out posters randomly Vinny, but you can check some of those Michael Jackson threads when he died. I think you were gone, but they got pretty heated. My point was all of the exact same "turning a blind eye" methods and excuses that were given at a guy like Michael Jackson for so long and still are until this day by his fans who simply don't care or want to know about regardless of how obvious it was. That's the same exact thing that Joe Pa obviously did here and people hate him for it. I'm not arguing that people shouldn't be mad at Joe Pa.

Htownsportsfan
11-09-2011, 11:03 PM
Sandusky was retired. No job to lose man.

He still had an office on campus and full access to the facility with only the limitation that he couldn't bring young guests to the facilities.

Texecutioner
11-09-2011, 11:05 PM
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but after reading the 23 page indictment Paternos story just doesnt make sense. The graduate assistant who saw the assault take place and went to see Paterno. I dont give a damn if he only used the word fondle when he tried to describe what he saw. Do you really think at that point Paterno would not be so shocked he would ask for every detail to try and prove it was a misunderstanding? If someone came to you and told you they saw someone you knew well for over 30 years touching a child let alone sodomising a ten year old boy you wouldn't demand more detail? If Paterno dint demand more information then he is beyond inept! The only thing Paterno did along with the Ad was tell Sandusky he wasnt allowed to bring young kids into the facility anymore. Joe Pa was a great football coach and man for many years but his inaction helped a child predator continue his assault on kids. That is inexcusable for anyone in any position!

I agree with you man. Sorry, if some of the things I said came from left field and I got on a rant about MJ, but I hear other pedophiles celebrated in our country currently and this comes out and people are enraged as they should be, but I just can't help but to get a little ticked at the fact that so many people pick and choose who to find things wrong with and or turn a blind eye on due to their talents or fan worship.

ArlingtonTexan
11-09-2011, 11:10 PM
The thing that gets me about this case is that people are wanting to burn Joe Pa at the stake and the more I read into it, it does sound like he should have done more to get this coach out of there and anyone involved I'd say. Just skimming some of the pages in here, I"m finding out more and more and it's harder and harder to see the POV of some of the posters who want to defend Joe Pa. He wasn't the perpetrator though, and I can't believe that he is being WAY more talked about and burned here than the actual guy who did it.

What gets me the most is all of the inconsistencies on this subject though. Shoot, for the last few years I've been having to hear posters on this board, celebs, and other random folks all over the place praising the biggest child molester of all time in Michael Jackson who had a pedophile ranch, paid off his accusers, openly admitted to doing all types of things that were obvious as day, and yet so many people have turned a blind eye to all of that and just stated that he was "weird" or that his daddy messed him up and all types of pathetic spin efforts. Sorry, but this may be from left field, but I think half the people in this thread that are wanting Joe Pa burned at the stake are big time hypocrites, because I remember hearing a lot of people celebrating MJ when he passed and wanting to "look the other way" every time it was mentioned, and MJ was far bigger than this story if people really wanted to read about all of that stuff that went on. MIKE TYSON is another perfect example as well. Dude raped a woman and sexually assaulted Peter Welcsh's daughter when she was a minor and also beat the living crap out of Robyn Givens, yet Mike Tyson is hardly ever even mentioned amongst rapists and guys of this kind and his career and his legacy is constantly being headlined and covered as if these things never happened. It is sounding more and more like Joe Pa's criticisms here are warrented though, the more that I read about what he "had to have known" at certain points. Joe Pa could have had this guy fired no question. He had more power and seniority than anyone at that program.

Sorry, I know that this post is going to tick a few people off. It wasn't my intention, so I'll apologize for how it may have come off, but if rape and pedophilia is so wrong which it damn sure is, then folks need to be a lot more consistent when putting the clues together and turning a blind eye because of who they like or dislike as entertainers, coaches, and athletes.

Apples to oranges. Plenty of people who have hate for those guys you have talked about.

It is the difference between a couple of individuals versus and entire university of higher learning (one that is consider the very best in the country if not the world). This is sports/college version of the Catholic church's cover up the same behaviors from its priest. that is the only true comparison.

Not that I am forgiving the individual criminals listed in your post.

Hardcore Texan
11-09-2011, 11:12 PM
I agree with you man. Sorry, if some of the things I said came from left field and I got on a rant about MJ, but I hear other pedophiles celebrated in our country currently and this comes out and people are enraged as they should be, but I just can't help but to get a little ticked at the fact that so many people pick and choose who to find things wrong with and or turn a blind eye on due to their talents or fan worship.

Unless you are going to go back and single out people who defended MJ and are now condemning JoePa to prove your point about specific people "flip flopping" then please drop these references.

Hardcore Texan
11-09-2011, 11:14 PM
He still had an office on campus and full access to the facility with only the limitation that he couldn't bring young guests to the facilities.

Did he or did he not retire in 1998 amid other previous allegations? I may be getting the specifics confused. How did he get the kid on campus in 2002 if he had that privelege taken away? Why did he commit these horrific acts in the football locker room shower?

Htownsportsfan
11-09-2011, 11:15 PM
I agree with you man. Sorry, if some of the things I said came from left field and I got on a rant about MJ, but I hear other pedophiles celebrated in our country currently and this comes out and people are enraged as they should be, but I just can't help but to get a little ticked at the fact that so many people pick and choose who to find things wrong with and or turn a blind eye on due to their talents or fan worship.

Understood. But keep in mind MJ fans that that make those arguments and get all the attention are more the fringe exception than the rule. Joe Paterno for 50+ years was a man who helped mold many great men both on and off the field. However somehow someway he lapsed severely in judgement and that lapse allowed Sandusky to continue hurting kids. There are others just a culpable but as football fans we have all come to expect more from a man like Joe Pa. This isnt some recruiting violation or booster scam that we can argue the severity of this is far worse. I still am amazed that these men Paterno, McQueary and others not only failed to get authorities involved in 2002 but have failed to do so in the almost decade since.

Htownsportsfan
11-09-2011, 11:17 PM
Did he or did he not retire in 1998 amid other previous allegations? How did he get the kid on campus in 2002 if he had that privelege taken away? Why did he commit these horrific acts in the football locker room shower?


I agree, I accidently quoted your post and didnt get it edited in time. My bad.

TexanSam
11-09-2011, 11:26 PM
I hope everyone whining for his firing is happy. The football program will suffer for many years to come.
I read this in an article and at least the Board has been swift with the hammer.

Who gives a shit about their football program at this point? That should be the last thing on people's mind. I could care less if they shut down the program all right now.

Texecutioner
11-09-2011, 11:27 PM
Unless you are going to go back and single out people who defended MJ and are now condemning JoePa to prove your point about specific people "flip flopping" then please drop these references.

I could name a few, but then I'm just picking a fight and trying to make people look bad. Not my intention here. I tried to stay away from this thread the last few days, but I can't escape the subject every time I turn on the tv, the radio, or come in here. The coverage is non stop.

I hear about Jackson every day though with this current trial going on with hundreds of his supporters crying and celebrating this man and could care less about what facts were existent. I don't hear anyone in here mentioning that and their disgust for how much a pedophile is worshiped every day where that trial has been going on. Bag on Joe Pa for turning a blind eye if you want, but don't turn right around and do the same with these other entertainers who have done much worse and have actually been perpetrators of crimes like this.

Understood. But keep in mind MJ fans that that make those arguments and get all the attention are more the fringe exception than the rule. Joe Paterno for 50+ years was a man who helped mold many great men both on and off the field. However somehow someway he lapsed severely in judgement and that lapse allowed Sandusky to continue hurting kids. There are others just a culpable but as football fans we have all come to expect more from a man like Joe Pa. This isnt some recruiting violation or booster scam that we can argue the severity of this is far worse. I still am amazed that these men Paterno, McQueary and others not only failed to get authorities involved in 2002 but have failed to do so in the almost decade since.


I wouldn't call them the fringe exception. I see more as a majority by far. I'm not arguing with your perspective though. I see exactly where you're coming from and understand your feelings here.

ArlingtonTexan
11-09-2011, 11:33 PM
Understood. But keep in mind MJ fans that that make those arguments and get all the attention are more the fringe exception than the rule. Joe Paterno for 50+ years was a man who helped mold many great men both on and off the field. However somehow someway he lapsed severely in judgement and that lapse allowed Sandusky to continue hurting kids. There are others just a culpable but as football fans we have all come to expect more from a man like Joe Pa. This isnt some recruiting violation or booster scam that we can argue the severity of this is far worse. I still am amazed that these men Paterno, McQueary and others not only failed to get authorities involved in 2002 but have failed to do so in the almost decade since.

I think I posted something similiar earlier. One of the real issues here in this case, is that Paterno has been considered a 'BETTER" man than all but a few of us. Still at the end of day, the guy did the minimium and probably less than many, if not most of us would have done.

Showtime100
11-09-2011, 11:41 PM
I hope everyone whining for his firing is happy. The football program will suffer for many years to come.
I read this in an article and at least the Board has been swift with the hammer.

This thread has been a terrible showing of what you think is important, but this post has left me with no doubt how............strange your sense of right and wrong are. You simply HAVE to be Cult Of Nittany Lion.

If possible, would you be one of those idiotic students protesting in the streets in Happy Valley right now ready to whip the first person you hear that thinks JoPA needed to go?

srrono
11-09-2011, 11:41 PM
Did you guys hear in the press conference spokesman said there a lot more info to be learned.

Rey
11-09-2011, 11:45 PM
I can't imagine being in that same situation. That'd be pretty f'n shocking.

I want to say I dont know what I would have done but I know myself and I'd have picked up a sturdy but swingable object and cracked Sandusky over the head mid act.

I don't know the graduate assistants or whatever but something had to have been going on for no one to take serious action. I just don't believe that many cowards were in the same building together. Not one person pressed the issue?

Something is fishy about that. I honestly would not be surprised if this guy Sandusky hasn't threatened a few lives. Seems like everyone passed the buck. There had to have been some kind of fear involved. Fear of public ridicule, fear of Sandusky, fear of believing it's actually true.

Either way though I can't picture myself turning a blind eye. Me and sandy would have had issues. But I can't say that I hate all those involved. I'm just not wired like that. I don't know the full details and I'm sure some stuff has not been shared. Most likely there are other pieces of shit involved but I just don't know who they are exactly.

This is pretty serious shit. Like I said, I would not be surprised if some folks were quieted out of fear.

I haven't read everything that has come out about this so I may be speaking out of ignorance. I just haven't been able to even put a lot of thought into this because it literally makes me sick.

Sandusky was/is s deeply disturbed individual. No telling what lengths he went to in order to keep this under wraps.

I just can't imagine that many adults doing absolutely nothing. Pretty sad stuff.

eriadoc
11-09-2011, 11:46 PM
I hope everyone whining for his firing is happy. The football program will suffer for many years to come.
I read this in an article and at least the Board has been swift with the hammer.

I'm half happy. I'll be completely happy when he burns in hell. And who gives a flying **** about the football program when there are kids that have been raped? Let me guess, you'd be one of the ones covering this up with JoePa and Sandusky, right?

The thing that gets me about this case is that people are wanting to burn Joe Pa at the stake and the more I read into it, it does sound like he should have done more to get this coach out of there and anyone involved I'd say. Just skimming some of the pages in here, I"m finding out more and more and it's harder and harder to see the POV of some of the posters who want to defend Joe Pa. He wasn't the perpetrator though, and I can't believe that he is being WAY more talked about and burned here than the actual guy who did it.

Well first of all, there's not much disagreement re: Sandusky, and therefore not much to discuss. I think if a band of vigilantes impaled the bastard on a pitchfork in front of PSU, we'd all cheer, to some degree or another. Paterno, on the other hand, seems to be getting a pass from certain posters. Paterno was an educator at PSU for over 60 years. He knew damn well what should have happened and he chose to wash his hands of it and hide from it. Assuming JoePa is not in on it, that's worse in some ways. It's one thing to see a deranged sicko doing awful things to children. At least you know what you're dealing with. But when a sane, supposedly upstanding community figure, authority figure, educator, and mentor enables something like this, it's worse in some ways.


I wouldn't call them the fringe exception. I see more as a majority by far. I'm not arguing with your perspective though. I see exactly where you're coming from and understand your feelings here.

I think Arsenal might be one of the ones to whom you refer. Personally, I have referred to Michael Jackson as America's Favorite Pedophile because of the things you've noted. I think you're probably attributing that to the wrong people, though. I've also referred to Karl Malone as a pedo every time I've been given cause to mention his name.

Texecutioner
11-09-2011, 11:50 PM
I'm half happy. I'll be completely happy when he burns in hell. And who gives a flying **** about the football program when there are kids that have been raped? Let me guess, you'd be one of the ones covering this up with JoePa and Sandusky, right?



Well first of all, there's not much disagreement re: Sandusky, and therefore not much to discuss. I think if a band of vigilantes impaled the bastard on a pitchfork in front of PSU, we'd all cheer, to some degree or another. Paterno, on the other hand, seems to be getting a pass from certain posters. Paterno was an educator at PSU for over 60 years. He knew damn well what should have happened and he chose to wash his hands of it and hide from it. Assuming JoePa is not in on it, that's worse in some ways. It's one thing to see a deranged sicko doing awful things to children. At least you know what you're dealing with. But when a sane, supposedly upstanding community figure, authority figure, educator, and mentor enables something like this, it's worse in some ways.



I think Arsenal might be one of the ones to whom you refer. Personally, I have referred to Michael Jackson as America's Favorite Pedophile because of the things you've noted. I think you're probably attributing that to the wrong people, though. I've also referred to Karl Malone as a pedo every time I've been given cause to mention his name.

Great point on Karl Malone. How he somehow escaped that landmine that should have ran him out of the NBA at the time is sort of mind boggling when you think about it now. I forgot all about it myself, because it rarely ever even gets mentioned about the guy.

Rey
11-09-2011, 11:56 PM
I could name a few, but then I'm just picking a fight and trying to make people look bad. Not my intention here. I tried to stay away from this thread the last few days, but I can't escape the subject every time I turn on the tv, the radio, or come in here. The coverage is non stop.

I hear about Jackson every day though with this current trial going on with hundreds of his supporters crying and celebrating this man and could care less about what facts were existent. I don't hear anyone in here mentioning that and their disgust for how much a pedophile is worshiped every day where that trial has been going on. Bag on Joe Pa for turning a blind eye if you want, but don't turn right around and do the same with these other entertainers who have done much worse and have actually been perpetrators of crimes like this.




I wouldn't call them the fringe exception. I see more as a majority by far. I'm not arguing with your perspective though. I see exactly where you're coming from and understand your feelings here.

I think the case against Sandusky is much more sound than a case against wacko was.

Not defending Jackson, but these two things aren't exactly the same. You have a bunch of adults that have admitted first hand knowledge of what was going on.

Texecutioner
11-10-2011, 12:04 AM
I think the case against Sandusky is much more sound than a case against wacko was.

Not defending Jackson, but these two things aren't exactly the same. You have a bunch of adults that have admitted first hand knowledge of what was going on.

There were adults that worked at the Neverland Ranch that talked about all sorts of disgusting things that were going on back then. There were testimonies from children who described his private parts that were proven true by photos, there were MJ's own testimony of many things he did that were inappropriate as well. The Neverland Ranch was nothing more than a compound to lure children when you consider that he was sending children's parents away for weeks at a time that he barely even knew or had been acquainted with. I keep hearing the term "blind eye" and not wanting to know when referred to Joe Pa, but for some strange reason I never heard these same criticisms being targeted at Jackson's family members, close friends, and culprits that enjoyed the money he paid them to just act like he was "weird."

Vinny
11-10-2011, 12:55 AM
Let's not muck this thread up with Michael friggin' Jackson. Make a comparison thread over in the general forum if you think it's all that relevant. This is one of the biggest College scandals I'll ever witness in my lifetime. Let's talk about it and share information about College football in this College football forum. There has to be an Entertainment Tonight forum for your MJ trumps Paterno thoughts somewhere. (insert smiley of choice here)

Vinny
11-10-2011, 01:26 AM
Sandusky had 6 adopted kids and had numerous foster kids over the years. I keep reading tweets that say there is some big announcement coming out soon. I think this gets worse. Mr. Sandusky and his wife Dottie have six adopted children and had cared for foster children, which led them to start the nonprofit. Mr. Sandusky was inducted into the Pennsylvania Sports Hall of Fame in 1999 and received awards for Second Mile including the 1993 NAACP Human Rights Award, the 1995 YMCA Service-To-Youth Award and the 1996 SGMA Heroes Award. President George Bush nationally recognized it as a philanthropic "Point Of Light" in November 1990.

"After we had taken in some foster children," Mrs. Sandusky told Sports Illustrated in 1982, "we saw the opportunities that some kids just hadn't had. But we'd gotten to the point where we couldn't take in any more, so Jerry started thinking about starting a group home."

It was also within the charity that Mr. Sandusky "found his victims," a grand jury presentment stated. "Through The Second Mile, Sandusky had access to hundreds of boys, many of whom were vulnerable due to their social situations."
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11310/1187908-454-0.stm?cmpid=MOSTEMAILEDBOX#ixzz1dHPUHX00

http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-i-wish-i-was-dead-sandusky-investigated-in-1998-detectives-listened-in-to-a-mother-confronting-sandusky-twice/

mattieuk
11-10-2011, 01:28 AM
A horrible horrible story.

I cannot say that I've seen all the evidence available - but if sure looks like there are a few guilty parties in this case for not reporting this to the highest possible law enforcement bodies when finding out about the abuse. With the amount of charges that are being leveled in this case - I can't imagine that the crimes were trail-less - and sadly that seems to include many members of the Penn State hierarchy.

The decisions to keep this 'in house' are the most damning part of the response to the crimes committed - and for men who are in a duty of care, they completely failed their roles. Despite being educators of young men, their training and experience should be able to cover a broad base of ages - and as part of their training would know protocol and proper procedure for cases like this.

It is a sickening affair - caused by one horrible man, and made worse by many more.

pbat488
11-10-2011, 01:32 AM
this is absolutely insane. penn st had to fire joe pa, the president, and probably should get rid of anyone still in a position of power from the time of this incident.

also, there's this from sportsbybrooks (https://twitter.com/#!/SPORTSbyBROOKS) tonight..

I can confirm there will soon be new, major allegation involving child sex abuse in Sandusky case. Told tonite it could come before Saturday

If what I was told tonight about the details of the new allegation in Sandusky child sex case is true, it will horrify the public.

This is a deadly serious matter. Keep the victims in your thoughts. Cannot emphasize that enough. In your thoughts.


edit: penn state students rioting are absolutely retarded. complete disgust at that.

srrono
11-10-2011, 03:59 AM
this is absolutely insane. penn st had to fire joe pa, the president, and probably should get rid of anyone still in a position of power from the time of this incident.

also, there's this from sportsbybrooks (https://twitter.com/#!/SPORTSbyBROOKS) tonight..




edit: penn state students rioting are absolutely retarded. complete disgust at that.


I just cant imagine how much worse it could be. More victims that I already thought. Maybe another molester? Could Sandusky be HIV positive? Horrify the public is really scaring me. I dont know how much more I can hear.

toronto
11-10-2011, 05:53 AM
I'm relieved to see that the Trustees did the right thing. Its the first correct decision they have made on this whole sordid mess.

Grams
11-10-2011, 06:56 AM
The thing that gets me about this case is that people are wanting to burn Joe Pa at the stake and the more I read into it, it does sound like he should have done more to get this coach out of there and anyone involved I'd say. Just skimming some of the pages in here, I"m finding out more and more and it's harder and harder to see the POV of some of the posters who want to defend Joe Pa. He wasn't the perpetrator though, and I can't believe that he is being WAY more talked about and burned here than the actual guy who did it.

What gets me the most is all of the inconsistencies on this subject though. Shoot, for the last few years I've been having to hear posters on this board, celebs, and other random folks all over the place praising the biggest child molester of all time in Michael Jackson who had a pedophile ranch, paid off his accusers, openly admitted to doing all types of things that were obvious as day, and yet so many people have turned a blind eye to all of that and just stated that he was "weird" or that his daddy messed him up and all types of pathetic spin efforts. Sorry, but this may be from left field, but I think half the people in this thread that are wanting Joe Pa burned at the stake are big time hypocrites, because I remember hearing a lot of people celebrating MJ when he passed and wanting to "look the other way" every time it was mentioned, and MJ was far bigger than this story if people really wanted to read about all of that stuff that went on. MIKE TYSON is another perfect example as well. Dude raped a woman and sexually assaulted Peter Welcsh's daughter when she was a minor and also beat the living crap out of Robyn Givens, yet Mike Tyson is hardly ever even mentioned amongst rapists and guys of this kind and his career and his legacy is constantly being headlined and covered as if these things never happened. It is sounding more and more like Joe Pa's criticisms here are warrented though, the more that I read about what he "had to have known" at certain points. Joe Pa could have had this guy fired no question. He had more power and seniority than anyone at that program.

Sorry, I know that this post is going to tick a few people off. It wasn't my intention, so I'll apologize for how it may have come off, but if rape and pedophilia is so wrong which it damn sure is, then folks need to be a lot more consistent when putting the clues together and turning a blind eye because of who they like or dislike as entertainers, coaches, and athletes.

Agree - I tried to rep you, but got that thingy that I must spred rep.

BattleRedToro
11-10-2011, 07:12 AM
I just cant imagine how much worse it could be. More victims that I already thought. Maybe another molester? Could Sandusky be HIV positive? Horrify the public is really scaring me. I dont know how much more I can hear.

I can think of a few ways that it would be worse.

1) Sandusky was part of a group that took turns raping boys in a tag team fashion.

2) Sandusky murdered some of the rape victims or hired someone to do it.

3) Sandusky performed satanic human sacrifice rituals while murdering rape victims.

4) Sandusky cannibalized some of his murdered rape victims.

I'm sure there are others who can imagine some other shocking revelations.

PsychoLove
11-10-2011, 07:19 AM
If an older woman chasing after a younger guy is called a cougar, is an older man chasing after a young boy called a Nittany Lion? :panic:

HTown2ATX
11-10-2011, 08:13 AM
I didn't have a chance to post last night.

I read the full grand jury report. 1st, I want to wash my brain and became nauseated, 2nd, it confirmed for me beyond a shadow of a doubt that Joe Pa knew WTF was going on and did not do enough, sorry Joe Pa supporters, he didn't and I scoff at you frankly. He even said "I didn't do enough"...case effing closed.

I was glad that he was fired last night and those students who protested showed just why college kids are morons for the most part and why I have no respect for most colleges.

Anyway, I'm on the fly just getting into work so I can't expand, but I am friggin pissed after reading that report.

Honoring Earl 34
11-10-2011, 08:20 AM
I didn't have a chance to post last night.

I read the full grand jury report. 1st, I want to wash my brain and became nauseated, 2nd, it confirmed for me beyond a shadow of a doubt that Joe Pa knew WTF was going on and did not do enough, sorry Joe Pa supporters, he didn't and I scoff at you frankly. He even said "I didn't do enough"...case effing closed.

I was glad that he was fired last night and those students who protested showed just why college kids are morons for the most part and why I have no respect for most colleges.

Anyway, I'm on the fly just getting into work so I can't expand, but I am friggin pissed after reading that report.

Right now Joe is hoping this is as bad as it gets but I don't think so . It's rumored all over that the second wave is about to hit . Sandusky had adopted 6 kids and had numerous foster children .

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11310/1187908-454-0.stm?cmpid=psu.xml

toronto
11-10-2011, 08:22 AM
This is the "cole's notes" version of what went down with Saundusky.

• Sandusky's victims all reported a wide array of sexual abuse allegations. Sandusky, who is married, met many of them through The Second Mile. Many spent the night at his home. He brought them to Philadelphia Eagles games, plus Penn State practices, tailgate parties, and home games. One of the victims traveled to the 1998 Outback Bowl and the 1999 Alamo Bowl as a member of Sandusky's family's party. That same victim often stayed with Sandusky at a State College-area hotel on the night before home games. He also frequently dined with the coaching staff and accompanied Sandusky to numerous charity outings. Sandusky had lavished this victim with a variety of gifts. According to the report, "Sandusky even guaranteed [this victim] he could be a walk-on player at Penn State. [The victim] was in a video about linebackers that featured Sandusky, and he appeared with him in a photo accompanying an article about Sandusky in Sports Illustrated." Sandusky later tried to bribe this victim with cigarettes and marijuana after this victim began refusing his advances.

• Also: "[This victim] remembers Sandusky being emotionally upset after having a meeting with Joe Paterno in which Paterno told Sandusky he would not be the next head coach at Penn State and which preceded Sandusky's retirement. Sandusky told the victim not to tell anyone about the meeting. That meeting occurred in May 1999."

• Sandusky was investigated by university police in 1998 after a mother reported to them that her 11-year-old son had showered with Sandusky. A university police detective and a municipal police detective later eavesdropped on a conversation between the mother and Sandusky in which Sandusky answered "I don't know ... maybe" when the mother asked him if he had touched her son inappropriately. He also admitted he had showered with the boy to an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare. The university police detective advised Sandusky not to shower with a child again, and Sandusky promised he would not. No charges were filed.

• In March 2002, a graduate assistant stumbled upon Sandusky and a boy showering together at Penn State's football facility. The grand jury report included the horrifying details of what that graduate assistant saw and heard:

As the graduate assistant entered the locker room doors, he was surprised to find the lights and the showers on. He then heard rhythmic, slapping sounds. He believed the sounds to be those of sexual activity. As the graduate assistant put his sneakers in his locker, he looked in the shower. He saw a naked boy ... whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both [the victim] and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught.

• The graduate assistant informed Joe Paterno the next day, and Paterno told Curley the day after that. About a week and a half after that, the graduate assistant met with Curley and Gary Schultz, Penn State's Vice President for Finance and Business and the other school administrator to be charged with perjury and failure to report an allegation. The graduate assistant described what he saw as being of a "sexual nature." Paterno said the graduate assistant had told him Sandusky's actions were "disturbing" and "inappropriate." Curley acknowledged to the grand jury that he was told Sandusky's actions were "inappropriate" and that they had made the graduate assistant "uncomfortable"; however, Curley denied under oath that he was told Sandusky had done anything sexual. Schultz conceded under oath that the graduate assistant had told him of inappropriate sexual conduct. But he also testified that the allegations were "not that serious" and that he and Curley were unaware any crime had taken place.

• It is worth noting here what Paterno did upon hearing a first-hand story from a "very upset" graduate assistant, in the words of the report, about "Jerry Sandusky ... fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy": Paterno took no action except to tell his athletic director.

• Curley and Schultz did tell Penn State president Graham Spanier what they had heard, but Spanier told the grand jury that Curley and Schultz had described Sandusky's actions to him as mere "horsing around in the shower." Spanier also denied any knowledge of the 1998 investigation of Sandusky by university police. Spanier issued a statement Saturday saying Curley and Schultz had his "unconditional support."

• Schultz's duties included oversight of the university police. He testified that he was aware of the 1998 incident and acknowledged similarities between it and the 2002 allegations. But according to the grand jury report, Schultz "never sought or reviewed a police report on the 1998 incident and never attempted to learn the identity of the child in the shower in 2002. No one from the university did so. Schultz did not ask the graduate assistant for specifics. No one ever did. Schultz expressed surprise upon learning that the 1998 investigation by University Police produced a lengthy police report. Schultz said there was never any discussion between himself and Curley about turning the 2002 incident over to any police agency." The graduate assistant was also never questioned by police.

• Sandusky was told he could no longer bring children into Penn State's football facility in light of the 2002 incident, and the executive director of The Second Mile was made aware of that fact, in addition to the incident. Schultz testified that Spanier had approved this decision. Schultz also said he believed he and Curley had informed a "child protection agency" about the 2002 incident. Curley also admitted "the ban on bringing children to the campus was unenforceable," in the words of the report.

• Records show that the 2002 incident was never reported to the Department of Public Welfare, Children and Youth Services, or the university police, in violation of state law.

• The Patriot-News of Harrisburg reported Saturday that a source close to the investigation said Paterno would not be charged and that he would testify against Sandusky at trial.

• One of Sandusky's victims told the grand jury Sandusky had brought him to Penn State's preseason practices in 2007—a full five years after Paterno was made aware of sexual activity involving Sandusky and another boy.

Anyone that reads this cannot possibly question why Paterno was fired. If anything, I wish they would shut down the game this Saturday and stop the inevitable Paterno pep rally we will all have to watch on Saturday. (I won't that's for friggging sure)

ArlingtonTexan
11-10-2011, 08:27 AM
This is the "cole's notes" version of what went down with Saundusky.

• Sandusky's victims all reported a wide array of sexual abuse allegations. Sandusky, who is married, met many of them through The Second Mile. Many spent the night at his home. He brought them to Philadelphia Eagles games, plus Penn State practices, tailgate parties, and home games. One of the victims traveled to the 1998 Outback Bowl and the 1999 Alamo Bowl as a member of Sandusky's family's party. That same victim often stayed with Sandusky at a State College-area hotel on the night before home games. He also frequently dined with the coaching staff and accompanied Sandusky to numerous charity outings. Sandusky had lavished this victim with a variety of gifts. According to the report, "Sandusky even guaranteed [this victim] he could be a walk-on player at Penn State. [The victim] was in a video about linebackers that featured Sandusky, and he appeared with him in a photo accompanying an article about Sandusky in Sports Illustrated." Sandusky later tried to bribe this victim with cigarettes and marijuana after this victim began refusing his advances.

• Also: "[This victim] remembers Sandusky being emotionally upset after having a meeting with Joe Paterno in which Paterno told Sandusky he would not be the next head coach at Penn State and which preceded Sandusky's retirement. Sandusky told the victim not to tell anyone about the meeting. That meeting occurred in May 1999."

• Sandusky was investigated by university police in 1998 after a mother reported to them that her 11-year-old son had showered with Sandusky. A university police detective and a municipal police detective later eavesdropped on a conversation between the mother and Sandusky in which Sandusky answered "I don't know ... maybe" when the mother asked him if he had touched her son inappropriately. He also admitted he had showered with the boy to an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare. The university police detective advised Sandusky not to shower with a child again, and Sandusky promised he would not. No charges were filed.

• In March 2002, a graduate assistant stumbled upon Sandusky and a boy showering together at Penn State's football facility. The grand jury report included the horrifying details of what that graduate assistant saw and heard:

As the graduate assistant entered the locker room doors, he was surprised to find the lights and the showers on. He then heard rhythmic, slapping sounds. He believed the sounds to be those of sexual activity. As the graduate assistant put his sneakers in his locker, he looked in the shower. He saw a naked boy ... whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant was shocked but noticed that both [the victim] and Sandusky saw him. The graduate assistant left immediately, distraught.

• The graduate assistant informed Joe Paterno the next day, and Paterno told Curley the day after that. About a week and a half after that, the graduate assistant met with Curley and Gary Schultz, Penn State's Vice President for Finance and Business and the other school administrator to be charged with perjury and failure to report an allegation. The graduate assistant described what he saw as being of a "sexual nature." Paterno said the graduate assistant had told him Sandusky's actions were "disturbing" and "inappropriate." Curley acknowledged to the grand jury that he was told Sandusky's actions were "inappropriate" and that they had made the graduate assistant "uncomfortable"; however, Curley denied under oath that he was told Sandusky had done anything sexual. Schultz conceded under oath that the graduate assistant had told him of inappropriate sexual conduct. But he also testified that the allegations were "not that serious" and that he and Curley were unaware any crime had taken place.

• It is worth noting here what Paterno did upon hearing a first-hand story from a "very upset" graduate assistant, in the words of the report, about "Jerry Sandusky ... fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy": Paterno took no action except to tell his athletic director.

• Curley and Schultz did tell Penn State president Graham Spanier what they had heard, but Spanier told the grand jury that Curley and Schultz had described Sandusky's actions to him as mere "horsing around in the shower." Spanier also denied any knowledge of the 1998 investigation of Sandusky by university police. Spanier issued a statement Saturday saying Curley and Schultz had his "unconditional support."

• Schultz's duties included oversight of the university police. He testified that he was aware of the 1998 incident and acknowledged similarities between it and the 2002 allegations. But according to the grand jury report, Schultz "never sought or reviewed a police report on the 1998 incident and never attempted to learn the identity of the child in the shower in 2002. No one from the university did so. Schultz did not ask the graduate assistant for specifics. No one ever did. Schultz expressed surprise upon learning that the 1998 investigation by University Police produced a lengthy police report. Schultz said there was never any discussion between himself and Curley about turning the 2002 incident over to any police agency." The graduate assistant was also never questioned by police.

• Sandusky was told he could no longer bring children into Penn State's football facility in light of the 2002 incident, and the executive director of The Second Mile was made aware of that fact, in addition to the incident. Schultz testified that Spanier had approved this decision. Schultz also said he believed he and Curley had informed a "child protection agency" about the 2002 incident. Curley also admitted "the ban on bringing children to the campus was unenforceable," in the words of the report.

• Records show that the 2002 incident was never reported to the Department of Public Welfare, Children and Youth Services, or the university police, in violation of state law.

• The Patriot-News of Harrisburg reported Saturday that a source close to the investigation said Paterno would not be charged and that he would testify against Sandusky at trial.

• One of Sandusky's victims told the grand jury Sandusky had brought him to Penn State's preseason practices in 2007—a full five years after Paterno was made aware of sexual activity involving Sandusky and another boy.

Anyone that reads this cannot possibly question why Paterno was fired. If anything, I wish they would shut down the game this Saturday and stop the inevitable Paterno pep rally we will all have to watch on Saturday. (I won't that's for friggging sure)

Provide the link (for the website and my personal use)

eriadoc
11-10-2011, 08:37 AM
Provide the link (for the website and my personal use)

I think that's just a summary of what's found in the grand jury presentment, which is linked in post #39 of this thread.

Grams
11-10-2011, 08:37 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Penn-State-sex-abuse-case-timeline-of-key-dates-Jerry-Sandusky-110711

Here is the timeline of the case.

cuppacoffee
11-10-2011, 08:39 AM
Let's not muck this thread up with Michael friggin' Jackson. Make a comparison thread over in the general forum if you think it's all that relevant. This is one of the biggest College scandals I'll ever witness in my lifetime. Let's talk about it and share information about College football in this College football forum. There has to be an Entertainment Tonight forum for your MJ trumps Paterno thoughts somewhere. (insert smiley of choice here)


Lest I misunderstand.

A poster can dredge up the pedophile Catholic priests scandal into this Penn State College Forum discussion

but

Texecutioner cannot dredge up Michael Jacksons pedophilia.

Is that correct?


:coffee:

Blake
11-10-2011, 08:47 AM
JoePA is a freaking liar and an awful human being. Same goes for the 2 executives. An assistant tells you he saw a kid getting buttf#$@#ed in your football showers and you dont do everything in your power to make sure this guy never see's the light of day?

I dont buy all the "I was told it was inappropriate touching" garbage. You were told exactly what the assistant saw, and went into self preservation mode. Despicable.

ArlingtonTexan
11-10-2011, 08:55 AM
I think that's just a summary of what's found in the grand jury presentment, which is linked in post #39 of this thread.

I am going to use it in a classroom discussion and I have to give credit to the person who did the summarzing.

Runner
11-10-2011, 09:10 AM
Lest I misunderstand.

A poster can dredge up the pedophile Catholic priests scandal into this Penn State College Forum discussion

but

Texecutioner cannot dredge up Michael Jacksons pedophilia.

Is that correct?


:coffee:

I think the a Catholic priest examples were in the flow, where it looked like the MJ discussion were going to take over the thread. If the church discussion threatens to do the same, the same action will be taken.

It's all bad stuff; I'm not for defending any of it. We just don't want this thread derailed. No one is stopping a compare/contrast Jackson and Penn State thread from being started in the appropriate forum.

This is of course a judgement call; many threads get hijacked as discussions range over related topics. The judgement here is to focus on the Penn State scandal in this particular thread.

DexmanC
11-10-2011, 09:18 AM
Lest I misunderstand.

A poster can dredge up the pedophile Catholic priests scandal into this Penn State College Forum discussion

but

Texecutioner cannot dredge up Michael Jacksons pedophilia.

Is that correct?


:coffee:

Michael Jackson was never convicted of pedophilia. If a person looks
deeply into the Michael Jackson case, you will see that he was murdered
after 17 years of defamation an attempted siege on his wealth
(trumped up court cases) was not effective. Michael owned 50%
of the ENTIRE SONY PUBLISHING CATALOG. He acquired his wealth
BEFORE getting married (alimony) and BEFORE having children (child
support.)

Catholic Priests, Joe Paterno, and his coaches are PROVEN pedophiles.
Big difference. In 2002. Michael Jackson told the truth, and the
campaign for his life was stepped up after SONY realized they could
NEVER get his catalog from him which INCLUDED The Beatles. You
don't see Little Richard as an angry man anymore, because Michael
gave his publishing rights BACK TO HIM.

Here's Michael in 2002. Listen carefully.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt6zVypo72E

This media routinely shapes the image of a friend into that of
an enemy. It causes evil people to appear as angels. I choose
to look carefully at those people the media vilifies to discover
"why." Always remember to think for yourself.

Vinny
11-10-2011, 09:21 AM
Lest I misunderstand.

A poster can dredge up the pedophile Catholic priests scandal into this Penn State College Forum discussion

but

Texecutioner cannot dredge up Michael Jacksons pedophilia.

Is that correct?


:coffee:Bring it up in another thread or I'll delete it going forward...haven't done anything of the sort yet, but I gave fair warning. An analogy and a few thoughts off center is ok, but don't derail this thread. It's gonna be long enough and tough enough to read after the fact without pages of michael jackson talk. If you can't deal with that, tough luck.

Vinny
11-10-2011, 09:24 AM
I am going to use it in a classroom discussion and I have to give credit to the person who did the summarzing.
Here is a time line from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette Sylvester
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11311/1188149-143.stm?cmpid=relatedarticle

Dan B.
11-10-2011, 09:25 AM
Mark Madden (who was reporting on Sandusky seven months ago) is reporting on Pittsburgh radio that Second Mile was lending out boys to wealthy donors.

http://audio.weei.com/a/48513214/mark-madden-talks-about-the-penn-state-scandal-and-drops-a-new-bomb-about-jerry-sandusky.htm