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Kaiser Toro
04-26-2005, 08:01 AM
I realize the internet was not around at that time and therefore there was not a forum that gave people instantaneuos gratification, but this is getting ridiculous. I was a Cowboy fan until I moved back to Austin in 1999 and shortly thereafter Houston was awarded the franchise and I have been a die hard since. But I am getting to wonder if this negativity is a Houston thing or if we do indeed have many UT people on this board (because UT fans are never happy and will try to fire or promote a coach/player and all of their relatives). I am a UT fan, but prefer to watch on television as our fans are radio show quote artists, have no pulse or are just inebriated.

I do have to ask our Texans fans that seem to be hot about our draft and in general the direction the team is going, what were and are your expectations? CC I do not believe wavered on addressing the teams needs and his overall assessment of the talent available in the draft. He is deleting overpaid veterans who were nothing more than a crutch to get us where we are today, did anyone truly believe Sharper and Glenn would be with the Texans for the remiander of thier careers? If so, then getting better and salary cap heaven may have not been in your forecast. If you do not want to build organically and allow sometime for these players please do not be so negative, throw some constructive criticism in here.

I like the fact that Capers and CC are taking it slow while at the same time showing improvement in the W column every year. Hell, Capers should know what is like to mortgage your future for one shot at a title, see Carolina in the mid nineties.

One intesting sidebar to all that is going around, there is no pressure on Carr and the OL right now as all the questions are being directed to the staff and defense. I am concerend about the OL's progress and hope rather than trust it will be better this year.

JfromthaTray
04-26-2005, 09:15 AM
To quote another posters remarks, "we are all armchair quaterbacks". With that said, I believe many of us think that management has made its share of questionable moves and are just voicing our opinions. I would lable us more "passionate" but equally loyal to the team. I for one think that trading up for Babin was a bad move. I also never liked the Benny Joppru pick from the beginning. I think we should have gone after O linemen with both of those picks. I think they should have traded up for Jeff Faine the center from Notre Dame. As for the house cleaning, I agree 100% with you on it. And if we weren't paying G-Funk 11 mil (I think) he would be next.

Tailgate
04-26-2005, 09:18 AM
To quote another posters remarks, "we are all armchair quaterbacks". With that said, I believe many of us think that management has made its share of questionable moves and are just voicing our opinions. I would lable us more "passionate" but equally loyal to the team. I for one think that trading up for Babin was a bad move. I also never liked the Benny Joppru pick from the beginning. I think we should have gone after O linemen with both of those picks. I think they should have traded up for Jeff Faine the center from Notre Dame. As for the house cleaning, I agree 100% with you on it. And if we weren't paying G-Funk 11 mil (I think) he would be next.


So you dont like the Joppru pick because you predicted he would get injuries???

Babin will pay off soon enough... you will see.

Kaiser Toro
04-26-2005, 09:29 AM
if we can get production out of TJ like we did from Babin in his first year and Babin shows the marked improvement that we should expect from a first round pick after starting his first year, then we should be in a very good shape

Unfortunatley for our fans we have not had any "sexy" picks since the 2003 draft of AJ. But in this league sex does not sell and I will take the lunch box variety guys we have.

JfromthaTray
04-26-2005, 09:30 AM
So you dont like the Joppru pick because you predicted he would get injuries???
I also never liked the Benny Joppru pick from the beginning. I think we should have gone after O linemen with both of those picks.

Who said anything about predicting injuries? :confused:

Tailgate
04-26-2005, 09:32 AM
So you dont like the Joppru pick because you predicted he would get injuries???
I also never liked the Benny Joppru pick from the beginning. I think we should have gone after O linemen with both of those picks. Who said anything about predicting injuries?

Because you didnt state why you didnt like him. Joppru was a STUD TE coming out of college and a great pick for our TE future at the time.... ONLY hampered by injuries.

I only assume you dont like him becuase you have never seen him play in the NFL.... due to injuries, hindsight 20/20,etc.... unless you state otherwise.

Tailgate
04-26-2005, 09:33 AM
SO I guess its just that we didnt pick an OL with our 2nd round pick?? Didnt we take OL in that draft? I could be wrong.

I think we took Pitts and Weary in the first 4 rounds of 2002. We also took Wand in the 3rd round in the 2003 draft... not to mention we were hoping Boselli was coming back that year.

Joppru was a GOOD pick at the time.

JfromthaTray
04-26-2005, 09:39 AM
I'll talk really slooowwww Wee should have takkeenn linemen with both of those picks. Thats why I didn't like the picks.

"Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth??" Chris Tucker

Tailgate
04-26-2005, 09:55 AM
I'll talk really slooowwww Wee should have takkeenn linemen with both of those picks. Thats why I didn't like the picks.

"Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth??" Chris Tucker

Hold off on the sarcasm there chief.

I guess YOU didnt see in my post where we took 3 O linemen in the top 4 rounds in those 2 years...and were still hoping to get Boselli back as well?

Lets put it this way... TE was a big need that we addressed and 99% of Texans fans were all for that pick. Guess you are the 1% with your "dissapproval". :confused:

Vinny
04-26-2005, 10:03 AM
The forum is kinda funny like that during the draft. During the season everyone was complaining about Glennís play and wanted him replaced. Now the management team is driving the Texans into the dirt because Glenn was replaced. That's just a small piece of the picture though. I made a post about the incredible negativity that would follow the draft in some thread a few weeks ago. It manifests itself in different manners but it happens every year the same way. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Itís as predictable as the Swallows of Capistrano.

Tailgate
04-26-2005, 10:04 AM
The forum is kinda funny like that during the draft. During the season everyone was complaining about Glennís play and wanted him replaced. Now the management team is driving the Texans into the dirt because Glenn was replaced. That's just a small piece of the picture though. I made a post about the incredible negativity that would follow the draft in some thread a few weeks ago. It manifests itself in different manners but it happens every year the same way. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Itís as predictable as the Swallows of Capistrano.

Exactly.... I feel like I am the ONLY one who remembers how OLD Glenn really looked last year.

Hervoyel
04-26-2005, 10:04 AM
Were Oiler fans this negative? Are you kidding? Oiler fans were created in a super heated forge of negativity the likes of which few NFL fans can comprehend!

Texans fans are hopelessly optimistic compared to Oiler fans. Don't judge all Texans fans by the boards. Message boards naturally attract the most vocal portion of fans, many of which are all about the negativity.

JfromthaTray
04-26-2005, 10:05 AM
Then we agree to disagree, but I thought I expressed why the 1ST time. And since hind sight is 20-20, what do we have to show for the Joppru pick. As far as I'm concerned, he's another Boselli. Miller and Breuner are doing just fine.

Tailgate
04-26-2005, 10:08 AM
Then we agree to disagree, but I thought I expressed why the 1ST time. And since hind sight is 20-20, what do we have to show for the Joppru pick. As far as I'm concerned, he's another Boselli. Miller and Breuner are doing just fine.

Thats what I was trying to relay to you all along... I think thats what I was REALLY getting at deep down inside. Hind Sight IS 20-20... and no one could have predicted his injuries....and most who dog the Joppru pick is because the unfortunate events that has happened to him. But at the time the pick made TOTAL sense. But you did cover yourself and state you supposedly didnt like the pick waaay back then,etc..

Joppru is supposedly fully healthy and will fit into the mix somewhere this year (fingers crossed).

Miller and Breuner are doing just fine??? :hmmm:

Hervoyel
04-26-2005, 10:10 AM
Miller and Breuner are doing just fine.


HA HAHAH HAH HAHAA, HAAAAA HAH HA :woot HA HAHHA Oh stop, please. No more, I can breath! HAAAH HAHAHA HAHAHAA!

JfromthaTray
04-26-2005, 10:21 AM
Sparring aside, I hope he turns out to be a pro bowler. I will only help the team if he does. Hervoyel, I have learned my lesson about taking on you moderators, just ask Vinny. You will get no argument from me. I'll say this, if Joppru has hands like Miller and can block like Breuner, he can be the mainstay.

infantrycak
04-26-2005, 10:35 AM
Hervoyel, I have learned my lesson about taking on you moderators, just ask Vinny.

Nothing says you can't debate, banter, argue with moderators about the thread topics--in that regard the moderators are just ordinary MB members. What you can't do is violate the terms of use. Hopefully this is water under the bridge.

Hervoyel
04-26-2005, 10:38 AM
I'll say this, if Joppru has hands like Miller and can block like Breuner, he can be the mainstay.


That's it isn't it. It's all about a TE who can do both. IMO he doesn't even need hands like Miller or the ability to block like Bruener (Though you won't see me turning my nose up at that of course) but if he can just do both adequately then we're going to get more benefit from him than either one of our existing one dimensional TE's.

To this day I still wish we'd kept Kent around a little longer.

JustBonee
04-26-2005, 11:13 AM
I became a negative Oiler fan when the heart and soul of the team was fired.
.. never regained the passion after Bum's exit.

cuppacoffee
04-26-2005, 11:20 AM
Then we agree to disagree, but I thought I expressed why the 1ST time. And since hind sight is 20-20, what do we have to show for the Joppru pick. As far as I'm concerned, he's another Boselli. Miller and Breuner are doing just fine.

Gotta chime in my :twocents:

Obviously you and I are not watching the same games. :confused:
Hindsight...whats to say that if we had drafted an O lineman instead of Joppru the O lineman would not also have been injured. What then? Hindsight would tell you we drafted the wrong lineman? Shoulda drafted a player that wasn't injury prone? This hindsight stuff could go on and on.
You just lost your credibility.

cac: :coffee:

JfromthaTray
04-26-2005, 11:43 AM
Might I suggest you read the entire exchange before you just take my cred. Nevermind, have it your way.



Hindsight...whats to say that if we had drafted an O lineman instead of Joppru the O lineman would not also have been injured. What then? Hindsight would tell you we drafted the wrong lineman? Shoulda drafted a player that wasn't injury prone? This hindsight stuff could go on and on.
You just lost your credibility.



also never liked the Benny Joppru pick from the beginning. I think we should have gone after O linemen with both of those picks.

Who said anything about predicting injuries?

JfromthaTray
04-26-2005, 11:46 AM
I completely forgot about him, he was supposed to be our version of Gates.

TheOgre
04-26-2005, 12:00 PM
As Oilers fans, we must have been medicated. How else can you explain us putting up with a Clown (Glanville) and a Zombie (Pardee) as our head coaches for so long?

Glanville was like Tom Penders, he could make an average team out of poor players and an average team out of great players. The more talent he got, the more they underachieved. Also, players tired of his dog and pony show. He lost his players in both Houston and Atlanta. Once that happens, adios amigo.

Pardee let the inmates run the asylum. I think he slept through his 4+ years of coaching the Oilers. It was obvious he was asleep in the 3 consecutive tough playoff losses from '91-'93. If it were not for the "game we do not mention" most of us would be most tormented by the Elway comeback from a 21-6 deficit.

If the fans were as opinionated then as we are now, history might be different.

JfromthaTray
04-26-2005, 12:03 PM
My 2nd worse nightmare is when Buddy let Montana off the hook in that loss to KC. I maintain to this day that he called off the dogs in the 2nd half after blitzing them to death in the 1st half because he was auditioning for a head coaching job.

Errant Hothy
04-26-2005, 12:10 PM
To quote another posters remarks, "we are all armchair quaterbacks". With that said, I believe many of us think that management has made its share of questionable moves and are just voicing our opinions. I would lable us more "passionate" but equally loyal to the team. I for one think that trading up for Babin was a bad move. I also never liked the Benny Joppru pick from the beginning. I think we should have gone after O linemen with both of those picks. I think they should have traded up for Jeff Faine the center from Notre Dame. As for the house cleaning, I agree 100% with you on it. And if we weren't paying G-Funk 11 mil (I think) he would be next.

Name the O-linemen you would have wanted instead of Joppru, because the only 3 picked between Joppru and Seth Wand are as follows Bruce Nelson-Center, Vince Manuwai-Guard and Wayne Hunter-Tackle. So which one owuld you have picked?

As for the Faine comment, I to thought he was a stud coming out of college but tell my why the Browns were trying to dump him beofre the draft? Because he has failed to live up to his draft position.

Reasearch before speaking is a wonderful thing.

TheOgre
04-26-2005, 12:11 PM
The Chiefs were up 21-20. It is 3rd and 3 and they were around their own 30 yard line. I think it was midway through the 4th at this time. Montana goes back to pass and William Fuller nails his arm. His pass goes about 10 yards away from the intended receiver. Instead it falls into the hands of another Chief, and he scampers 40 yards for a 1st down. They go in and score a TD to ice it (there was no 2-pt conversion in 1993). I think the ball was intended for one of the Cash brothers (Keith or Kerry) and ended up in Kimble Ander's hands instead (it might have been the other way around however). That was a backbreaker.

Tulip
04-26-2005, 12:14 PM
"Were Oilers fans this negative?"

We were worse.

barzilla
04-26-2005, 12:14 PM
That team went to seven consecutive playoffs in a row and didn't even advance to the conference finals. Yeah, I think we were all pretty bitter even before they decided to move.

JfromthaTray
04-26-2005, 12:16 PM
Dog, you are way off the topic, but has benny had a bigger impact for us than any of the linemen you named to this date. And if If's and Buts were my aunt would be my uncle.

And how many good players have gone to Cleveland and Cincinatti and were ruined by those two franchises. Doesn't take Ken Jennings to realize that my friend. But you keep doing your little research thingie, its cute.

Txnpride
04-26-2005, 01:46 PM
The Chiefs were up 21-20. It is 3rd and 3 and they were around their own 30 yard line. I think it was midway through the 4th at this time. Montana goes back to pass and William Fuller nails his arm. His pass goes about 10 yards away from the intended receiver. Instead it falls into the hands of another Chief, and he scampers 40 yards for a 1st down. They go in and score a TD to ice it (there was no 2-pt conversion in 1993). I think the ball was intended for one of the Cash brothers (Keith or Kerry) and ended up in Kimble Ander's hands instead (it might have been the other way around however). That was a backbreaker.I was there and remember that play like it was yesterday.I remember the announcer giving weather reports for the following weekends game.I believe we were to play the Bills,and the weather was unseasonably warm.The crowd at the Dome gave out a loud cheer........all for not.

FILO_girl
04-26-2005, 04:32 PM
Are we more negative than the Oiler crew? I dunno, wasn't around then.

But if you think that only negativity is what you get here, think again. I for one use my noggin to make my own conclusions and statements....CC and company doesn't do it for me. That is pretty much the consensus of fans on here. We back the team, but not every move they make. If we did.... :shocked . I am scared at the thought of being a total homer to any front office! :woot

:wacko: (your getting dizzy, VERRRRRY dizzy...) NOT!

SheTexan
04-26-2005, 06:43 PM
To answer the question that was posted!

Oiler fans were much worst!! But, they had years of disappointment to help them get there.

TexanExile
04-26-2005, 09:22 PM
Oiler fans were DEFINITELY more negative. No doubt. I know it's in vogue for some around here to beat up on fans who don't go along with the "Texans do no wrong" mentality, but that is also a predictable phenomenon that will pass. I love this team, but I ain't drinkin' the front-office Kool Aid anymore. It's time for REAL expectations, not expansion expectations.

Does making negative statements make me a bad fan? I doubt it. I've made my share of critical comments lately, especially with the Greenwood matter, and I'm not a fan of the Seth Wand experiment. BUT...I'm a HUGE fan of AJ, D-Rob, and the rest of this beloved team. I'm also excited and optimistic about lesser-known young guys like Kendrick Starling and Derick Armstrong. And I still believe Carr, Palmer, and Capers deserve at least another year to prove this plan can work.

Bottom line: I don't mind some team criticism any more or less than I mind fans who follow the front-office line every single time, as long as they can back it up with some reason why. People who blindly blast (or praise!) the team bug me. Just try to support what you're talking about and most people on this board don't take it the wrong way.

outofhnd
04-26-2005, 09:32 PM
Yea speaking as a former Oiler fan with the ownership of that club it was just stagnant. The only real chance we had at a superbowl was the year we were cheated out of the wildcard by Buffalo in "the greatest comeback ever in the playoffs" and yes we were cheated Don Beebe's wide open catch and touchdown was a result of him running out of bounds and coming back inbounds and not ruled out by the official. If that play coulda been challenged take 7 points off and send Buffalo packing.

Bud Adams was a cancer he tried to move the oilers every chance he got. IF The owner wasn't loyal to the town how can the town be loyal to the owner?

Grid
04-26-2005, 09:36 PM
I think, Texanexile, it boils down to a difference in philosophy.. not a bunch of homers saying you are too negative :).

I am as critical of the Texan's moves as the next guy, but I dont just look at what they are doing and say "I dont know him.. that isnt an improvement.. we are moving in reverse".....when we make an unexpected change, I first try to see WHY we made this change, and what our coaches are thinking.

Looking at it in that light, it is easy to see that we are improving.. the FO is making positive moves to improve the abilities of our team.

I noticed that you said you love AJ and D-Rob.. I love em too.. but I also love Wand, and Wells, and Gaffney, and Faggins.. because these are quality players who, even though they arent the big name playmakers, are important to the team and are steadily improving. I know that you cannot have a playmaker at every position.

Wand, a lot of people rag on him, and I really dont understand why. It strikes me as a kneejerk reaction to the beating that Carr has been taking.. but you cannot do that in the NFL :P. You cannot say "Carr is getting sacked too much.. fire the Oline and sign the entire starting Oline from the Colts".. it just doesnt work like that.. you have to build your own talent, and Wand has done nothing to show me that he doesnt have the ability to be a starting LT. It is simply too early to make that kind of judgement about him.

It sucks that we cant snap our fingers and have a top 5 Oline.. but we cant.. we have to do it the same way all the other top 5 olines did.. find talent, develop it, let them mesh.. and reap the benefits. It isnt a fast process.. but it is the only way to build a strong and lasting offensive line in the NFL.


And I dont have expansion expectations.. I expect us to be #2 in the division this year, and I expect us to either get the wildcard.. or come very close to it. I dont consider that an "expansion expectation".. an expansion expectation would be just wanting to see us improve.. I think we have the talent to compete.. and I wanna see us use it.

THEFUTURE
04-26-2005, 11:28 PM
Dog, you are way off the topic, but has benny had a bigger impact for us than any of the linemen you named to this date. And if If's and Buts were my aunt would be my uncle.

And how many good players have gone to Cleveland and Cincinatti and were ruined by those two franchises. Doesn't take Ken Jennings to realize that my friend. But you keep doing your little research thingie, its cute.

are you serious? the whole point of making comments is to be able to back them up with research, i have yet to see you come up with one arguement to state why joppru was a bad pick... if joppru was healthy, and was playing... you would have nothin to say about him, but only cuz he came in and has ran into injury problems is he getting heat from people. your opinions are even a mute point considering that you think miller and breuner are doing good jobs, defenses can blantantly(Sp?) read whether we are passing or running depending on which TE is in, and still then neither do a good job playing... joppru was and is the answer everyone is looking for.. and dont start the clevland and cin ruin players stuff, im pretty sure Corey Dillon was a dominate back for the Bengals and still is... Takeo Spikes was a dominate defender in Cin. good players dont get ruined, they make franchises better

texan279
04-26-2005, 11:32 PM
We olier fans were much worse, but we had so much more to be angry about... :bag:

El Tejano
04-27-2005, 12:09 AM
Oiler Fans were much worse!

Signed,

Warren and Felicia Moon

bigtex77
04-27-2005, 12:25 AM
Of course Oiler fans were more negative, back then we didn't have the first win in franchise history over the Cowgirls to fall back on. The Oilers always took a backseat to them and believe me, their fans let us hear it. Can any other ex-Oiler fans back me up on that?

HoustonLionsFan
04-27-2005, 12:30 AM
Kaiser Toro- You think people on this site are negative. Good One. You want to see negativity, come check out a Lions MB sometime, lol

LBC_Justin
04-27-2005, 12:56 AM
To answer the question that was posted!

Oiler fans were much worst!! But, they had years of disappointment to help them get there.
I 100% agree.

I personally must be the execption. I blindly support the coaches and the team and assume all the moves they make are the right ones until proven wrong. I will defend our guys to the end when debating who is better even if i know i am wrong. To me that is what being a die hard fan is all about.

Kaiser Toro
04-27-2005, 08:39 AM
Kaiser Toro- You think people on this site are negative. Good One. You want to see negativity, come check out a Lions MB sometime, lol

I could imagine who all of that negativity is being channeled to. I wil say that there are many Michigan ex pats in my office and they are walking and talking with much confidence right now.

TexanExile
04-27-2005, 09:41 AM
I think, Texanexile, it boils down to a difference in philosophy.. not a bunch of homers saying you are too negative :).

...it is easy to see that we are improving.. the FO is making positive moves to improve the abilities of our team.

.

Just to be clear, nobody's ever criticized a post of mine for being too negative...I was just trying to look at the mindset from the other side. But we do disagree that it is easy to see we are improving. If it was that easy to see, I doubt this thread about negativity would exist! :)

Wand, a lot of people rag on him, and I really dont understand why. It strikes me as a kneejerk reaction to the beating that Carr has been taking.. but you cannot do that in the NFL :P. You cannot say "Carr is getting sacked too much.. fire the Oline and sign the entire starting Oline from the Colts".. it just doesnt work like that.. you have to build your own talent, and Wand has done nothing to show me that he doesnt have the ability to be a starting LT. It is simply too early to make that kind of judgement about him.

Here too, we'll disagree. You're right that it's not an overnight process. But long-term, I just don't think he's the guy for the job. I would've rather the team try to sign another young FA tackle like they did with Wade, but there weren't any out there worth signing this year. So I agree that he has to get another year.


Oh, and finally, #2 in the division is definitely the right expectation! texanpride

Yankee_In_TX
04-27-2005, 09:42 AM
Have you seen the NFL commercial from last season? People in bars, on the couch, etc, etc....

Doing 'armchair coaching.' Talking about how good a player is going to be, or bad.....

One was Steelers fans, something like 'Ben roselwho?'

Another was Miami fans, something like 'I am so glad we got Ricky Williams, he's going to set records.'

People have always done it, and always will ;-)

But if we all knew better than the coaches, then we'd work for the NFL. This forum just happens to be a tiny bit out of control with people expresing their opinions, OVER, and OVER, and OVER..... LOL.

Honoring Earl 34
09-27-2006, 10:25 PM
:redtowel: I worked at a grocery store while in high school during the Earl era . I was stocking an aisle listening to the Oilers vs Steelers on Monday night football over the loud speaker . The Oilers won 9-6 .

threetoedpete
09-27-2006, 10:45 PM
As Oilers fans, we must have been medicated. How else can you explain us putting up with a Clown (Glanville) and a Zombie (Pardee) as our head coaches for so long?

Glanville was like Tom Penders, he could make an average team out of poor players and an average team out of great players. The more talent he got, the more they underachieved. Also, players tired of his dog and pony show. He lost his players in both Houston and Atlanta. Once that happens, adios amigo.

Pardee let the inmates run the asylum. I think he slept through his 4+ years of coaching the Oilers. It was obvious he was asleep in the 3 consecutive tough playoff losses from '91-'93. If it were not for the "game we do not mention" most of us would be most tormented by the Elway comeback from a 21-6 deficit.

If the fans were as opinionated then as we are now, history might be different.


I try very hard to beat down the expectations during preseason. And this start is why. Never know when a couple of critical injuries at the right spot sink your season. I'm tring hard not to be knee jerk this year. I decided this summer to let TJ go. He is what he is. Knew it when we drafted him. Does no good to cry for Derrick.

But since Ogre has been so kind as to set me up...I'll try and spike it.
(Glanville). Glanville got more out of a rag tag group than a lot of other coaches could ever have. My case in point is Criss Dishman. Glanville for one month of his career whipped Dishman into a NFL deamond for a month. No other time in his career did Dishman make Player of the month than the that period during Glanville's rein. Glanville was responsible for the punter holding for the kicker. That was Glanvilles baby. Now just about everyone does it.Saves a roster spot, and gets them out of everyones hair. He was innovative, brash, and he cooked a pretty good stew with what he had.
Wanna let McClain do your thinking for you fine by me. White dosen't bobble the ball, he scores on stagger Lee. It was that wide open. He scores, digs them out of the hole...Glaneville is a stinkin' genuious. From what I saw, noone was going to beat Elway that day. Looks like with the nfl adopting the "spread" formation for the moblie QBs. Glanville wasn't wrong. He was way ahead of his time.

Pardee: The thing that killed the '93 team was Jeff Alm's suicide. It's just that simple. You can rail against the coaches and team all you want. But once the kid killed himself, that team was DOA. I found nothing wrong with him leaving the coaching to his assitance. He had good ones. I don't expect Kubiak to run the defense now...Just manage it.

Lot of pain involved being an Oiler fan. I musta been crazy to keep coming back year after year. But it was much better than the alternitive. Going to the dark side and hopping on the Dallas Crack wagon. Negitive, I still defend the Oilers even though there are long gone. Leaving tickets on the windsheild and getting multipuls back...that was no Joke, that first happened at the dome 1982.

Hervoyel
09-27-2006, 10:58 PM
Oiler fans epitomized negative. Sure other teams were actually more pitiful and their fans "should" have been more negative than we were but nobody ever topped an Oiler fan in negativity. It's never happened.

You have some many factors coming together to make the negative Oiler fan that it's really a perfect pessimism storm. Just look at this and then think about what it all means when you put it together.

1. Houston is a town where everyone seems to be from somewhere else. You have a fanbase that's generally more (or at the very least "as much") interested in what teams in other towns are doing than they are with what the Oilers are doing.

2. Houston won two AFL titles right off the bat and if I'm not mistaken played for a third. Right there you start the franchise off with an impossibly high standard BUT it's also achieved in a league that nobody really cares about. What does this mean? Hell if I know but it can't be good.

3. Just to the north of us you have what was easily THE model franchise of the 70's. In Dallas the Cowboys were everything the Oilers were not and they did this at a time when the Oilers were at an all time low. Everything since then has been rooted in that inferiority complex that so many Oilers fans (and indeed Houston fans) seem to wallow in. Houston fans cry like whining babies over the respect they don't get and over every single ridiculous perceived slight they find in the media and don't be fooled, they hunt for these things like fans possessed. It's part of their illness. They can't get over the idea that the Oilers (and Houston sports in general) are some kind of joke being played on them and that the rest of the country is laughing it's collective butt off at them when they're not looking.

4. To top it all off the failures of the Warren Moon era Oilers and their well documented habit of choking during the playoffs did the team (and us fans) in. They already had the most negative fans in the world and once they started choking habitually their fans turned on them completely. At least the Earl Campbell era Oilers could point to the ref in Pittsburgh and say "They stole that touchdown from us!" Later day fans of the franchise just couldn't escape the fact that the Oilers worst enemy was "the Oilers".

In my opinion the Texans might as well be called "Oilers" because their fanbase was tainted like bad cheese long before they were ever born. It remains to be seen whether they can ever overcome it. The Oilers stink got on every team in this town to some degree or another.

In every Texans misstep we see the ghost of Oiler blunders-past. It's not fair but it's always going to be that way I think.

afcman
09-27-2006, 11:00 PM
I blindly support the coaches and the team and assume all the moves they make are the right ones until proven wrong.

Well, we are 0-3. Still losing. Still "rebuilding". You wanted proof?

Hervoyel
09-27-2006, 11:04 PM
I didn't realize this was an old thread when I replied to it. Interesting to contrast what I said back then with my post just now. I had originally pointed out that Texans fans were much more optimistic than Oilers fans had been. Now I'm saying that things are exactly the same. I guess that came from a 2-14 season in 2005, the Reggie/Vince wars and the Mario draft, followed by 0-3.

See, this is what I'm talking about. Negativity is everywhere in Houston fans!

FirstTexansFan
09-27-2006, 11:10 PM
Without going into the history of the Oilers, I'd have to disagree with everyone that stated Oiler fans were more negative. Maybe about the time that Bud decided he wanted a new stadium and began his threats to move to Jacksonville it started, but I never saw a negative Oiler fan in my life. We had hope throughout all our trials. I believe the difference between now and then is societal. We have the Internet to express ourselves anonymously, and this leads to immaturity. Reminds me of my days when we could make prank phone calls, it was easy to do, no caller ID in those days :) I could expand upon this subject, but it's a dead horse already.

South Texan
09-27-2006, 11:14 PM
Being old and senile and all I am trying to remember, but it seems that:

Pre-Earl was not pretty, paper bags were hard to find at times.

After that playoff loss to Buffalo... well, at least none of the team got shot when they returned to town.

BUT, watching Earl in his prime was worth the price of admission win or lose. And I still remember the tremendous fan turnout for the welcome back party after one of the playoff losses to Pittsburg, and I have to say that was a highpoint of the "good old days". I wish I could remember Bum's quote, it was something along the lines of "We knocked on the door this year, next year we are gonna kick the son-of-a-***** down."

The Run and Shoot offense was exciting until the other teams learned how to defense it.

Glanville and Adams deserved each other.

BTW I heard a great joke about Alzheimers the other day, I just can't seem to remember it. :hmmm:

Kaiser Toro
09-28-2006, 12:49 AM
I feel so proud of to be the originator of a Zombie thread. I would like to thank all of my friends and family, and, of course, the Academy.

Vinny
09-28-2006, 01:02 AM
Pastorini famously called the Houston fans "fickle" once and that was kind of a big deal for a while...so we have a bit of a spot on the tie.

Texans_Chick
09-28-2006, 01:03 AM
I didn't realize this was an old thread when I replied to it. Interesting to contrast what I said back then with my post just now. I had originally pointed out that Texans fans were much more optimistic than Oilers fans had been. Now I'm saying that things are exactly the same. I guess that came from a 2-14 season in 2005, the Reggie/Vince wars and the Mario draft, followed by 0-3.

See, this is what I'm talking about. Negativity is everywhere in Houston fans!


Being an Oiler fan was frustrating yet always hopeful. Always arranged my Sundays around the game.

The only thing that really bothered me about them was Bud Adams. He was just so damned embarrasing and cheap. Ran into someone who was a player on one of Bud's first teams, and he said that Bud still owed him money. There was the middle finger incident. And the clothes. And the continuous foot in mouth disease. And trying to weasel out of paying incentive bonuses.

But I could deal with an embarrasing, short-sighted owner because the Oilers were the NFL team in my town. And then that vulgarian, with no PR guy to help him out, tried to get a stadium at the worst time and in the worst way for a prideful town.

The Astrodome was a bad place to watch a game, and even the best seats were not terribly close to the field. But instead of quietly selling and PRing his way into a new stadium with some good timing, he did what he did. He moved his team out of his home town.

I miss the feeling of the playoffs and the hunt, but I do not miss that Bud Adams.

And now, ironically, some of the season tickets for his company are right behind my new seats. It is weird.

Vinny
09-28-2006, 01:05 AM
I became an Oiler fan in grade school so they probably meant more to me than any other club I've followed so I'm probably harder on the Texans. I would have much rather of had the Browns expansion 2.0 name and history package myself.

dantem
09-28-2006, 01:08 AM
Dan Pastorini was on 610 a month or so ago (and I've heard him say this other times as well) he was asked what it was like to be a quarterback in Houston. And he basically said it was intense. Fans were ruthless even when they would see him in public, he would get threats of bodily injury, called every name in the book. He said it was never an enjoyable experience. and then went on to say he knows what David Carr has to put up with and it is not easy.

My daughter saw Carr in a resturaunt in Sugarland and some ***** just walked up to him in front of his family and yelled "You Suck". He just shook his head like he was used to it.

anyway, I remember Oiler Fans being a lot worse than Texans Fans.

Texans_Chick
09-28-2006, 01:09 AM
I became an Oiler fan in grade school so they probably meant more to me than any other club I've followed so I'm probably harder on the Texans. I would have much rather of had the Browns expansion 2.0 name and history package myself.

I'm okay with what happened.

I did not care for the "Tennessee Oilers" name myself. I think it would be very hard for your team to be done stolen and then have the name perpetuate. I have biases against those teams that have done that in my lifetime.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
09-28-2006, 01:11 AM
Again, couldn't have said it better myself. My dad got Oilers season tickets when the Tyler Rose was drafted. He and I split them when I got older. It was hard to watch our old team make the Superbowl under another guise.

Vinny
09-28-2006, 01:12 AM
I'm okay with what happened.

I did not care for the "Tennessee Oilers" name myself. I think it would be very hard for your team to be done stolen and then have the name perpetuate. I have biases against those teams that have done that in my lifetime. Not me....After 1-13 my early years were watching Bum's team that started with the Gillman turnaround. From about 1975 till a few years before they left they gave us a couple of big time eras and had some great teams. It's just such a shame all of that is gone. At least we have our new Mo Townes.

TEXANRED
09-28-2006, 08:52 AM
As Oilers fans, we must have been medicated. How else can you explain us putting up with a Clown (Glanville) and a Zombie (Pardee) as our head coaches for so long?

Glanville was like Tom Penders, he could make an average team out of poor players and an average team out of great players. The more talent he got, the more they underachieved. Also, players tired of his dog and pony show. He lost his players in both Houston and Atlanta. Once that happens, adios amigo.

Pardee let the inmates run the asylum. I think he slept through his 4+ years of coaching the Oilers. It was obvious he was asleep in the 3 consecutive tough playoff losses from '91-'93. If it were not for the "game we do not mention" most of us would be most tormented by the Elway comeback from a 21-6 deficit.

If the fans were as opinionated then as we are now, history might be different.

O.K.

No

Glanville was the best thing to happen to the Oilers since Bum Phillips. He was an instant market success and exposure. Something the current Texan fans complain that we don't get enough of. Not only that but we had a D that was fierce and ferocious and slap your momma if she was sitting in the stands. Not to mention he was able to get the Oilers to the playoffs for the first time in 9 years.

Pardee was the man. Even after the game we shall not mention, the next season we started 1-4 and then went on to win 11 straight.

Yea we never made the super-bowl. Neither has Manning or TonyD.

To answer the year and a half old question, yes, they were just as negative. Like ogre's post talking about Glanville and Pardee, they only won several Divisions and made the play offs 7 straight years.

Mr. White
09-28-2006, 09:55 AM
They were more negative, but that's changing lately. Texans fans will catch up soon.

While some of still may have a place for them in our hearts, they were a dysfuntional franchise. I found this out when Bum Phillips got fired. Earl Campbell got traded over a pitcher of beer. Everything was Pastorini's fault, so he got traded for a hungover QB on the decline. The yankee GM mooned a wedding party...and you guys think Casserly was awful.

Bud threatened to move the team to Jacksonville.

Bud got Glanville on the cheap, and then found out by accident that he was a good quick-fix artist. Still Glanville's behavior was typical of a dysfunctional franchise.

The Run-N-Shoot was a dysfunctional offense. It was inflexible. It couldn't make adjustments. Good defensive coordinators often knew what play was coming. Ask Bill Cowher. They never had a TE or fullback to pick up a CB blitz. IIRC, Rod Woodson got 6 sacks on Moon in one game. Moon was an awesome QB, but was oblivious to backside pressure.

The cameras liked to show Jim Eddy jumping around and screaming...then his defense made history in Buffalo. If you watch NFL Films, this is the only reference they ever even make to the Oilers. In hindsight, I think this spelled their end in Houston.

Bud threatened to move the team to Conroe and become the "Texas Oilers." I don't think that Conroe really wanted them. Nashville did.

They went to a Super Bowl because the NFL made Bud hire a guy that actually knew something about football. He got credit that Bud wanted..so now he's gone. He's got his "yes man" in Floyd Reese.

Judging from stories about Steve McNair's exit and Billy Volek's exit, these guys are still a mess. And there's no doubt who's running things.

Bud Adams defies conventional wisdom. He's always got a better way.

Now we've got a team with a better owner, a better front office, and better coaches.

And better uniforms.

:logo:

TEXANRED
09-28-2006, 10:20 AM
Jim Eddy
:logo:

Please never mention his name again.

In the future just say "You know who" or "He who's name must not be spoken."

Thank you for your cooperation.:tease:

Blu
09-28-2006, 10:37 AM
Were Oilers fans this negative?

Yes..so they became Cowboy fans!

santo
09-28-2006, 10:46 AM
I became an Oilers fan right when they were playing Buffalo in the playoffs. That was the first time I ever watched an Oilers game.

Funny thing was, eventhough they lost and it was heartbreaking, I fell in love with the team and watched pretty much every game the next season and every one after that until they moved to Tenessee.


One thing I do miss is the rivalries with Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland.

Is there any way we can petition to the NFL and have them trade us with Baltimore so that we can be in that division?

Man, that would be awesome to see again, because quite frankly, I hate the division we are in.

TEXANRED
09-28-2006, 10:57 AM
I became an Oilers fan right when they were playing Buffalo in the playoffs. That was the first time I ever watched an Oilers game.


Man, that would be awesome to see again, because quite frankly, I hate the division we are in.


So I can blame that loss on you then?

You would like the division more if we are capable of winning games. Our only real rival is the Jags.

Stampede
09-28-2006, 10:57 AM
We're the Houston Oilers, the sorriest football team
we take the ball from goal to goal, but all for the other team,
we're in the air we're on the ground, never in control,
and when you say the oilers, your talkin toilette bowl

We got the offense, that dont make any sense,
we give the other team some hope,
Houston oilers, houston oilers, ya know i think they're all on dope

1, 5, 7, 8, we're the worst in the lone star state..(doot doot do do)

Uh yea, some of us were negative. :)

TEXANRED
09-28-2006, 11:00 AM
We're the Houston Oilers, the sorriest football team
we take the ball from goal to goal, but all for the other team,
we're in the air we're on the ground, never in control,
and when you say the oilers, your talkin toilette bowl

We got the offense, that dont make any sense,
we give the other team some hope,
Houston oilers, houston oilers, ya know i think they're all on dope

1, 5, 7, 8, we're the worst in the lone star state..(doot doot do do)

Uh yea, some of us were negative. :)

Substitute Texans and you have summed up our who season thus far.

Wait, was that negative?

santo
09-28-2006, 11:08 AM
So I can blame that loss on you then?

You would like the division more if we are capable of winning games. Our only real rival is the Jags.


Well, maybe you can blame the loss on me :hides:

Man if you think about the division that we are in, all of the teams are "sellout" teams except maybe Jacksonville, but even then, they tried to steal the Oilers from Houston.

Indianapolis stoled the team from Baltimore, Tennessee from Houston and Baltimore stoled the team from Cleveland. All of these teams would be in a perfect division with each other.:shades:

I know Bud took all of our tradition, but at least the NFL could have done is kept Houston in the same division with Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and Cleveland.:cowboy1:

done88
09-28-2006, 11:31 AM
Were Oilers fans this negative?

Its hard to tell the Oilers were never this bad.

painekiller
09-28-2006, 11:48 AM
Texas Chick, Bud is from Oklahoma, sorry but a technicality I had to correct, Houston doesn't need to be blamed for birthing him.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

My father had season tickets from the first year of the team. We sat at the 40 yd line behind the Oiler bench in the dome. (We had the 50 yd line tickets but the people in front were so bad we traded with out business partners).

I started going in the early years of George Webster, Kenny Houston, Charlie Johnson, I remember Lynn Dickey and Dan Pastorini both being drafted in the same year, and both looking pretty good. (What a QB draft that years was Jim Plunkett, Archie Manning, Lynn Dickey, Dan Pastorini, those were some pretty big named guys back then.)

I started becoming a huge fan when we got the Human Wall Curly Culp, and this unknown coach named Phillips. Well we got close but never could get to the Super Bowl.

In the early 80's my favorite fan story was, remember the team was beyond bad, and no one was going to the games. A guy has 2 tickets to the game and cannot find anyone that want to take them off his hands. So he goes to a local mall on the Saturday before the game, and leaves the 2 tickets under the windshield wipers for anyone to take. When he came back out 2 hours later, there was now 6 tickets under his windshield wipers.

That is how bad the team was and what the apathy of the fans was like. We had draughts in the 60's , 70's , 80's and 90's. The team lost more years then it won, Bud would always play hardball with the players, oh he paid them well, he just made them go to hell to get the money.

We had draft picks late to camp every year, player's refusing to play for us period, Matuszak. It was a joke of a team more year than not.

painekiller
09-28-2006, 11:52 AM
Its hard to tell the Oilers were never this bad.

Oh to be so young as the miss the late 60's early 70's and the early 80's after Earl was used up. Yes Done88 they were worse. And for a far longer time. Before Earl the team sucked for over 10 years, after Earl they sucked for 4 years. And after Moon nobody cared becasue they were moving.

LBC_Justin
09-28-2006, 12:04 PM
Regardless of the topic web forums are very very negative places.

It is a place where people can stand up and shout and be heard by hundreds or even thousands of people and do it under the cover of their computer screen.

This is one of the reasons I am less active during weeks we lose. I don't want all that negative energy rubbing off on me. In fact I rarely open up threads that are clearly negative. I watch all the Texans games, I don't need some 18 yr old bandwagon fan telling me the team stinks or that some player is a bust.

anyways...yea Oiler fans were pretty negative at times(like all fans). The blown lead to Buffalo and never being able to get over the Steeler hump brought out some frustration in people.

Double Barrel
09-28-2006, 12:08 PM
I became an Oiler fan in grade school so they probably meant more to me than any other club I've followed so I'm probably harder on the Texans. I would have much rather of had the Browns expansion 2.0 name and history package myself.

yep, same with my history. The Oilers name was synonymous with Houston football, and win or lose, they were our team.

And the more I've thought about it, the more I hate Bud Adams for not only taking the team away, but taking our history away, too. Irregardless of the history of choke, that was a hurdle that we would have overcome. Instead, Tennessee gets a new team and gets to the big dance. It's just not right.

The Astros had a history of futility up until the last couple of years. That's why we're fanatics, because each new season brings new hope. And it would have been the same way with the Oilers.

DBCooper
09-28-2006, 12:18 PM
Houston has some of the best on-ramps and off-ramps of any Bandwagon in the nation.

TEXANRED
09-28-2006, 12:23 PM
yep, same with my history. The Oilers name was synonymous with Houston football, and win or lose, they were our team.



Someone else hit the nail on the head when they said that people in Houston are not from Houston.

I was thumbing thru a Magazine I have that is from 1975 and it had an article in it about Houston. In '75 Houston was the 6th largest city in the US with just a little over 1 million people. 30 years later the pop has grown a little under a mill and a half. Thats a lot of people from other places. Why should they root for a loser when they have there home teams.

El Tejano
09-28-2006, 12:35 PM
All I know is the higher you go in the stadium the more dedicated the fans are.

DBCooper
09-28-2006, 02:18 PM
Some of you football historians would be more apt to answer this question for me.

I've always wondered ever since the Oilers left town...

Why was it that the Browns were able to become the Ravens and move and have another team set up in Cleveland...seemingly over a period of a week or less...and the Oilers "situation" with "you know who" seemed to drag on F-O-R-E-V-E-R???

Serious question:
Was it really "HIS" fault or was there a change within the leagues policies? (Don't misunderstand me...I absolutely can't stand "HIM") I was just looking for clarity. Was it a case of different situations? Or different ownership? Or why was it SO easy for Cleveland and SO painful for us?

:confused:?????:confused:?????:confused:

Bud still had a lease on the Astrodome and did not have a stadium in Possum Hollar to play in yet.

The Browns skipped town, and the NFL gave them the next expansion team within weeks.

We (the Oilers) had the lame-duck status for a year and a half.

Dark times. Worse than having a bad team, in my opinion.

TEXANRED
09-28-2006, 02:49 PM
Some of you football historians would be more apt to answer this question for me.

I've always wondered ever since the Oilers left town...

Why was it that the Browns were able to become the Ravens and move and have another team set up in Cleveland...seemingly over a period of a week or less...and the Oilers "situation" with "you know who" seemed to drag on F-O-R-E-V-E-R???

Serious question:
Was it really "HIS" fault or was there a change within the leagues policies? (Don't misunderstand me...I absolutely can't stand "HIM") I was just looking for clarity. Was it a case of different situations? Or different ownership? Or why was it SO easy for Cleveland and SO painful for us?

:confused:?????:confused:?????:confused:

In two words. Our Fans.

The difference between Cleveland and Houston was Cleveland had a rally of 100,000 fans and Houston had a rally of 70.

The three headed monster is who I blame for the whole thing. Blineberry, Roberston, and I believe McClain continued to spearhead a "We don't need a new stadium, Bud won't leave, if he does leave who cares, campaign. People read, people sided with the columnists. Wrong. Can't leave out Lanier or Judge Robert Eckles. Eckles and Lanier were probably the two most responsible for the Oilers leaving town.

Truthfully it started to simmer in Buffalo and then boiled over after we had home field thru out the playoffs, first round bye and then lose to Montana in the last few minutes of the game.

We even had Drayton (He was the head of renting out the Astrodome) come out and say the Oilers didn't need a new stadium, nothing was wrong with the stadium, it was perfect for both football and baseball and a great place to watch a game. Then right after the Oilers leave threaten to move the team to D.C. if 1.) Didn't build him a new stadium, just for baseball, 2.) Attendance had to be over a million. What a piece of crap that McClain guy is.

What has this city spent in new stadiums over the past 7 years? 700, 800 million dollars?

I hate Bud Adams and hope some day I will get a chance to "accidentally" move a chair on his oxygen tube. However its just as much our fans fault as it was Adams.

Cruuuuuuuz
09-29-2006, 02:04 AM
I was just a kid then, so i dont know all the politics but i do know this...when the oilers lost to buffalo...i cried because i KNEW the oilers were the best team in the league and if they didnt win the superbowl that year they never would...and they never have....That was the day...the oilers DIED.

Too much PAIN for one city, one team and its fans to handle...
thinking about it now...its ironic the Astrodome was called the house of pain
because it really was...for the astros and the oilers....Thank Goodness for Hakeem and the Rockets! I have to say they saved the city!

with no new stadium the oilers had to go...never to be forgiven...

It makes me happy to have a new chance with the Texans and hopefully they can get it together and start winning, so my kids will have better football memories than me....

Earl Campbell is STILL my favorite football player.
Warren Moon is pretty close.