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welsh texan
11-03-2011, 12:13 PM
Well there has been a lot of talk in the 'bash Kareem' thread about the Texan's DB situation this season, but was just browsing the PFF website and came across these (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/09/01/fantasy-defensive-back-rankings-idp/) rankings of the top 100 DB's in the NFL this season.

39. Glover Quin HOU
45. Jonathan Joseph HOU
52. Danieal Manning HOU
85. Kareem Jackson HOU
100. Dominique Barber HOU

Of interest may also be;

13. Bernard Pollard BLT
65. Nnamdi Asomugha PHI
81. Leigh Bodden NE
91. Ike Taylor PIT
98. Dunta Robinson ATL

Now, I don't really know what kind of standing the opinion of PFF has to those 'in the know', but its certainly nice to see that, if you say each of the 32 teams' 4 DB starters 'should' be in the top 128 in the league, we've got 5 within the top 100 (by this opinion). Something must be going right.

I also chose to include a few other players' positions which may be of interest for various reasons;

Baltimore are obviously playing to Bernard Pollard's strengths.

As much as we all would have liked Nnamdi Asomugha in the off-season things are working out better for JoJo in HOU than for Nnamdi in Philly (not trying to claim he's not as good a player there, but we can clearly be very happy having made the best of the cards we were dealt)

Leigh Bodden, who many of us are interested in taking a look at is ranked only slightly above KJAX.

Ike Taylor who many were interested in bringing in in the off-season is ranked below KJAX.

And DROB only just makes it into the top 100, at 98.

All stats and analysis is provided on a FWIW basis.

TdotTexas2Step
11-03-2011, 12:20 PM
I think these rankings are of a testament to the importance of putting players in the best position to succeed. Cushing made note recently of how Wade has been putting them in spots where he feels like they can make contributions. Cushing playing inside, Mario and Barwin playing outside, Quin at safety.

They has Asomugha playing a lot of zone earlier on, and it obviously affected him, while Baltimore has Pollard doing what he does best. But at the end of the day, you take Asomugha over Pollard obviously.


Other than KJ, our staff has done a fantastic job with the defense as a whole, especially considering the lost offseason time.

TexansFanatic
11-03-2011, 12:37 PM
# 10 --- Devin McCourty

:toropalm:

Big Lou
11-03-2011, 12:38 PM
Honestly I don't know how they came up with these rankings but Joseph is at least a top 10 CB, if not top 5. I'm a little biased of course, but I've seen very few completions on the guys. I don't have stats to back up my assertion, but seriously when passes are completed against Houston, its either Jackson, Allen, of a Safety in zone coverage. Thats not a knock on the others, but I can only remember a couple of times that I have seen Joseph on a WR that catches a pass.

The guy is a lock down, shut down corner period. It doesn't have the acclaim that Aso and Revis have, but he is a stud when he's on the field.

Goatcheese
11-03-2011, 12:40 PM
These are "fantasy" rankings that are determined by fluff stats.

The PFF Fantasy IDP Scoring System

Solo Tackles 1 point
Assisted Tackles .5 points
Sacks 4 points
Tackles for a Loss 3 points
Passes Defensed 1 point
Interceptions 6 points
Forced Fumbles 4 points
Fumble Recoveries 2 points
Touchdowns 6 points
Safeties 10 points
Blocked Kicks 6 points

They have little to do with what a corner's actual job is: Not allowing his man to catch the football and advance down the field. Anything else he does is a bonus.

TexanFan881
11-03-2011, 12:52 PM
These are "fantasy" rankings that are determined by fluff stats.

The PFF Fantasy IDP Scoring System

Solo Tackles 1 point
Assisted Tackles .5 points
Sacks 4 points
Tackles for a Loss 3 points
Passes Defensed 1 point
Interceptions 6 points
Forced Fumbles 4 points
Fumble Recoveries 2 points
Touchdowns 6 points
Safeties 10 points
Blocked Kicks 6 points

They have little to do with what a corner's actual job is: Not allowing his man to catch the football and advance down the field. Anything else he does is a bonus.

The date of the article is also September 1st...

jtexas
11-03-2011, 12:54 PM
I'm not sure what time period those stats are coming from. Up through Week 8 here are the 2011 rankings for CB (not just fantasy stats)

Overall
9. Johnathan Joseph
37. Brice McCain
62. Jason Allen
86. Kareem Jackson

1. Darrelle Revis
66. Devin McCourty
73. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
76. Ike Taylor
90. Nnamdi Asomugha
95. Dunta Robinson

Coverage Only
8. Johnathan Joseph
30. Brice McCain
80. Jason Allen
88. Kareem Jackson

Joseph is definitely one of the elite and McCourty is having a terrible year. I would say we lucked out.

b0ng
11-03-2011, 12:57 PM
Free Brice McCain.

kiwitexansfan
11-03-2011, 01:02 PM
Free Brice McCain.

Not sure I'd pay that much for him.

Playoffs
11-03-2011, 01:09 PM
85. Kareem Jackson HOU > 98. Dunta Robinson ATL http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/laugh.gif

b0ng
11-03-2011, 01:09 PM
Not sure I'd pay that much for him.

Pretty sure Brice McCain has been pretty good in the spot he's playing. Whatever that is.

Playoffs
11-03-2011, 01:18 PM
I guess it's fantasy rankings, may be old,

But I'm seeing Darrell Revis #36 from the link in OP???

Rey
11-03-2011, 01:33 PM
I'm not sure what time period those stats are coming from. Up through Week 8 here are the 2011 rankings for CB (not just fantasy stats)

Overall
9. Johnathan Joseph
37. Brice McCain
62. Jason Allen
86. Kareem Jackson

1. Darrelle Revis
66. Devin McCourty
73. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
76. Ike Taylor
90. Nnamdi Asomugha
95. Dunta Robinson

Coverage Only
8. Johnathan Joseph
30. Brice McCain
80. Jason Allen
88. Kareem Jackson

Joseph is definitely one of the elite and McCourty is having a terrible year. I would say we lucked out.


Yeah...those rankings looked fishy..

:fish:

thunderkyss
11-03-2011, 01:45 PM
these (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/09/01/fantasy-defensive-back-rankings-idp/) rankings of the top 100 DB's in the NFL this season.

39. Glover Quin HOU
45. Jonathan Joseph HOU
52. Danieal Manning HOU
85. Kareem Jackson HOU
100. Dominique Barber HOU

Of interest may also be;

13. Bernard Pollard BLT
65. Nnamdi Asomugha PHI
81. Leigh Bodden NE
91. Ike Taylor PIT
98. Dunta Robinson ATL



Wow... didn't expect to see Glover so high up there. Nor did I expect to see JJo so low. He's doing a better job than that for us, I think.

.

Rey
11-03-2011, 01:49 PM
Wow... didn't expect to see Glover so high up there. Nor did I expect to see JJo so low. He's doing a better job than that for us, I think.

.

Keep reading TK...

I wouldn't trust those rankings as gospel...The ones posted by jtexas sem more accurate to me..

ArlingtonTexan
11-03-2011, 01:49 PM
please provide linkage for all of these stats...thanks in advance

thunderkyss
11-03-2011, 01:51 PM
I think these rankings are of a testament to the importance of putting players in the best position to succeed. Cushing made note recently of how Wade has been putting them in spots where he feels like they can make contributions. Cushing playing inside, Mario and Barwin playing outside, Quin at safety.

I find it interesting when the last DC tried to move Cush inside, it was thought to be one of the dumbest moves ever. It didn't work very well, but trying to put him in there with only the bye week is a little different than putting him there after a full training camp.

But then the dummies (I am included in the group that thought it was dumb) moved him back outside after one week.



Other than KJ, our staff has done a fantastic job with the defense as a whole, especially considering the lost offseason time.

This staff has KJ in the top 100 & you don't think that is a fantastic job? 128 starters & this "confirms" he should be one.

ArlingtonTexan
11-03-2011, 02:02 PM
I find it interesting when the last DC tried to move Cush inside, it was thought to be one of the dumbest moves ever. It didn't work very well, but trying to put him in there with only the bye week is a little different than putting him there after a full training camp.

But then the dummies (I am included in the group that thought it was dumb) moved him back outside after one week.



This staff has KJ in the top 100 & you don't think that is a fantastic job? 128 starters & this "confirms" he should be one.

I am not going to defend the last FOG (Friend of Gary), but fulltime 4-3 MLB is different than other Lbing positons. Plenty of guys who are 4-3 OLBs (especially strongside) are 3-4 ILBs . Cushing probably can play every LBing position in the NFL except fulltime 4-3 MLb with at least average level of play. He was out of position. He relies on athletic ability with ok instincts, while 4-3 MLB is probably the most the inverse where an average atheletes with above average instints is a really good player. If you have both his name is Ray Lewis.

2slik4u
11-03-2011, 02:06 PM
I'm not sure what time period those stats are coming from. Up through Week 8 here are the 2011 rankings for CB (not just fantasy stats)

Overall
9. Johnathan Joseph
37. Brice McCain
62. Jason Allen
86. Kareem Jackson
1. Darrelle Revis
66. Devin McCourty
73. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
76. Ike Taylor
90. Nnamdi Asomugha95. Dunta Robinson

Coverage Only
8. Johnathan Joseph
30. Brice McCain
80. Jason Allen
88. Kareem Jackson

Joseph is definitely one of the elite and McCourty is having a terrible year. I would say we lucked out.

Ipso Facto ---> KJ is better than Nnamdi.

ChampionTexan
11-03-2011, 02:17 PM
Folks, these are neither mid-season or real rankings.

These are pre-season, fantasy rankings for individual defensive players. To call them meaningless is to pay a disservice to the term meaningless.

ThaShark316
11-03-2011, 02:45 PM
I'll tell y'all again:

The 2010 class of DBs are mediocre at best.

Kareem might be below average, but Patrick Robinson, Devin McCourty and Kyle Wilson are all ehh at best at this point.

:lol: don't let McCourty's pro bowl appearance fool you. He got roasted a ton last year, and that trend has continued this year. QBs are targeting him something SERIOUS this year.

TEXANS84
11-03-2011, 03:21 PM
These are "fantasy" rankings that are determined by fluff stats.

The PFF Fantasy IDP Scoring System

Solo Tackles 1 point
Assisted Tackles .5 points
Sacks 4 points
Tackles for a Loss 3 points
Passes Defensed 1 point
Interceptions 6 points Forced Fumbles 4 points
Fumble Recoveries 2 points
Touchdowns 6 points Safeties 10 points
Blocked Kicks 6 points

They have little to do with what a corner's actual job is: Not allowing his man to catch the football and advance down the field. Anything else he does is a bonus.

JJ's ranking would be a little bit higher if the two TD's against the Steelers would have counted.

ChampionTexan
11-03-2011, 03:40 PM
JJ's ranking would be a little bit higher if the two TD's against the Steelers would have counted.

No it wouldn't because these rankings were done before the season started.

EllisUnit
11-03-2011, 04:08 PM
I'm not sure what time period those stats are coming from. Up through Week 8 here are the 2011 rankings for CB (not just fantasy stats)

Overall
9. Johnathan Joseph
37. Brice McCain
62. Jason Allen
86. Kareem Jackson

1. Darrelle Revis
66. Devin McCourty
73. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
76. Ike Taylor
90. Nnamdi Asomugha
95. Dunta Robinson

Coverage Only
8. Johnathan Joseph
30. Brice McCain
80. Jason Allen
88. Kareem Jackson

Joseph is definitely one of the elite and McCourty is having a terrible year. I would say we lucked out.

Yep these DEF seem right to me !!!!!!!!!

EllisUnit
11-03-2011, 04:09 PM
No it wouldn't because these rankings were done before the season started.

he said they were through week 8, where did you find that it was pre season ?

Vinny
11-03-2011, 04:12 PM
Well there has been a lot of talk in the 'bash Kareem' thread about the Texan's DB situation this season, but was just browsing the PFF website and came across these (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/09/01/fantasy-defensive-back-rankings-idp/) rankings of the top 100 DB's in the NFL this season.

39. Glover Quin HOU
45. Jonathan Joseph HOU

Fantasy rankings are very, very, very, very different than rating the skills and abilities of the players. For instance Joseph won't have as many opportunities to tackle people if less QB's throw his way, less wr's catch balls.....less opportunities to make a tackle. Quin is a S so he is supposed to make more tackles. Quin has struggled at times this season so there is zero, nada, no way in hell he is a better player than Joseph...period, point blank.

thunderkyss
11-03-2011, 04:18 PM
Yep these DEF seem right to me !!!!!!!!!

I don't have a problem with that either.

Well, something is fundamentally wrong when J.Allen & KJac are rated above DRC & Nnamdi.

But Allen playing better than Kj over the first 8 weeks, I have no problem with that at all. However, I think Allen is playing no better/worse than he was in week 1. I think Kj is playing better now than he was in week 1 & I expect that trend to continue.

fiasco west
11-03-2011, 04:20 PM
I don't have a problem with that either.

Well, something is fundamentally wrong when J.Allen & KJac are rated above DRC & Nnamdi.

But Allen playing better than Kj over the first 8 weeks, I have no problem with that at all. However, I think Allen is playing no better/worse than he was in week 1. I think Kj is playing better now than he was in week 1 & I expect that trend to continue.

The fact that KJ is on there at all says all that needs to be said. Since people in that other thread wanted to act as if he had no skill and couldn't play the position at all.

I too expect him to get better and would not be surprised if this guy is our definite #2 going into next year.

Vinny
11-03-2011, 04:23 PM
I don't have a problem with that either.

Well, something is fundamentally wrong when J.Allen & KJac are rated above DRC & Nnamdi.

But Allen playing better than Kj over the first 8 weeks, I have no problem with that at all. However, I think Allen is playing no better/worse than he was in week 1. I think Kj is playing better now than he was in week 1 & I expect that trend to continue.if you give up completions, you are right there to make the tackle. If nobody throws your way, you aren't. These are fantasy rankings people.

EllisUnit
11-03-2011, 04:25 PM
I don't have a problem with that either.

Well, something is fundamentally wrong when J.Allen & KJac are rated above DRC & Nnamdi.

But Allen playing better than Kj over the first 8 weeks, I have no problem with that at all. However, I think Allen is playing no better/worse than he was in week 1. I think Kj is playing better now than he was in week 1 & I expect that trend to continue.

Playing better than in week 1 ? we played against kerry collins, he had 197 yards and 1 TD. So i dont see how he could of improved, he didnt have a bad game, and against miami he had a good game, we only gave up 170 yards. If u say he has been playing better you should start that from week 3 when he got torched.

On that note i dont think K.J has played bad this season, minus a few bad moments. I just feel J. Allen is overall better, maybe besides tackling.

EllisUnit
11-03-2011, 04:27 PM
I'm not sure what time period those stats are coming from. Up through Week 8 here are the 2011 rankings for CB (not just fantasy stats)

Overall
9. Johnathan Joseph
37. Brice McCain
62. Jason Allen
86. Kareem Jackson

1. Darrelle Revis
66. Devin McCourty
73. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
76. Ike Taylor
90. Nnamdi Asomugha
95. Dunta Robinson

Coverage Only
8. Johnathan Joseph
30. Brice McCain
80. Jason Allen
88. Kareem Jackson

Joseph is definitely one of the elite and McCourty is having a terrible year. I would say we lucked out.

these however arent fantasy rankings. This is what we're talking about Vinny.

thunderkyss
11-03-2011, 05:26 PM
if you give up completions, you are right there to make the tackle. If nobody throws your way, you aren't. These are fantasy rankings people.

The OP posted fantasy rankings.. I don't think the second set was. Your reasoning doesn't make sense, anyway, since Joseph is ahead of Kareem.

kiwitexansfan
11-04-2011, 12:39 PM
Pretty sure Brice McCain has been pretty good in the spot he's playing. Whatever that is.

I think I save my alloted KJax hate just for McCain.

I can't unsee what I've seen from him.