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View Full Version : Are we setting a bad precedent here?


V Man
04-25-2005, 10:01 PM
We all want the Texans to go after big time free agents, but what message are we sending them? Sign here but if you don't live up to pro bowl form we will release you (even if you did have a fairly good year)?

I understand why we let Sharper go, and even if we release Glen, I can see why. But we will resign Braford? And I know he didn't cost us much, but for what he gave us last year, I think he is still over paid. But release Glen, je had a solid year ( he has lost a step, I willl give you that), but he provided so much more. Leadership on the field and in the clubhouse, mentor to DRob. And Sharper still lead the team in tackles, makes all the calls, but we let him go because he got mad because we lost (so do I) and he was going to make too much money. And now we have no one returning in that area. (Plus we move Wong to another position after he probably had his best year as a Texan). Yes Glen and Sharper were going to make a lot of money, and we still are going to have to pay them something, and we get inexperience and possiblly a bad attitude in return.

So what message is this telling other players in the league, Texans want you, will pay you, then drop you like a rock if you don't put up Pro Bowl numbers. What are Agents going to say about signing with the Texans?

Please don't question my loyality to the Texans, because I will still be there every Sunday in front of the boob tube, screaming and hollering. But this was just sometihing that I was wondering, and wanted to know if anyone else felt the same, or I am way off base here?

D-ReK
04-25-2005, 10:08 PM
The precedent had been set by every other team before we came into existence...In this era of free agency and the salary cap, once your production curtails or it is assumed that your production will curtail in the near future, and you are making around $5M per year, you're more than likely going to be a goner...I don't agree with getting rid of Glenn, but this is a business...

Hervoyel
04-25-2005, 10:08 PM
This message you speak of that the Texans are sending to players all around the league is the same message that 31 other teams are sending out. I personally don't think it's something that is going to be a factor when it comes to a free agent player choosing a team and considering the Texans.

Grid
04-25-2005, 10:09 PM
I think what it comes down to is winning.

If you are a winning team.. FAs will sign with you no matter what (long as you pay em of course.. and they will sign for less if they think an SB could be in their future). If you are a losing team.. it doesnt matter how nice you are to them.. they arent gonna sign unless you pay em the big bucks.

If we start winning like we intend to.. then the release of Glenn, Foreman, and Sharper.. will have no effect on our ability to sign FAs.

LBblitz
04-25-2005, 10:12 PM
You and I know as well as mostly everyone on this forum that overpaying olderplayers cannot and will not get you a superbowl win and can be devastating for years to come (ask the raiders). However it is key to hold on to the core players of the team that bring leadership and consistency. I agree that releasing players left and right could put a cloud over our potential FA future, however, if cass' and capers' plan works out and we become a winning football team and contenders, that (more often than not) will bring players to houston.

LBblitz
04-25-2005, 10:13 PM
oops I guess grid beat me to that point (or I type REALLY slow)lol

texanfan2002114
04-25-2005, 10:16 PM
I just feel that is what the NFL is about. If you don't put up numbers or you cost to much and aren't worth the vaule anymore then yes you will be released. I am totally ready for the upcoming and I am happy that CC is not worrying about the fans thought and worrying about building a defense!!!

DocBar
04-25-2005, 10:22 PM
We all want the Texans to go after big time free agents, but what message are we sending them? Sign here but if you don't live up to pro bowl form we will release you (even if you did have a fairly good year)? re

So what message is this telling other players in the league, Texans want you, will pay you, then drop you like a rock if you don't put up Pro Bowl numbers. What are Agents going to say about signing with the Texans?

Please don't question my loyality to the Texans, because I will still be there every Sunday in front of the boob tube, screaming and hollering. But this was just sometihing that I was wondering, and wanted to know if anyone else felt the same, or I am way off base here?
IMO, you're reading some things wrong in this. IMO, Sharper wasn't mad because we lost. He never showed much leadership on the field. NEVER showed any fir ILB's SHOULD show. I bet if ya look at game film, 80% of Sharpers tackles wer 4-5 yrds on the WRONG side OLS. By several yards.
Sharper is good when surrounded by superior talent. He is NOT a superior talent. Glenn is another story altogether. MO is that his feelings were hurt due to PB and his ego couldn't accommodate the insult. SOOOOOOOO to make a short story long, I feel we are sending the RIGHT message around the league. The Texans want PLAYMAKERS(Glenn not withstanding), not over paid, over-aged FA's looking for one last big payday. If you can produce, you're welcome here. If not, look elsewhere. I NEVER want our team to look like the Redskins or Raiders(maybe it has to do with teams that begin in "R"). I like the way we are heading and think '05 is gonna be our 1st winning season. texanpride
P.S. Quote edited for length. I'm WAY too mouthy tonite. LOL

TexanExile
04-25-2005, 10:25 PM
Interesting thread, and some great points on both sides. I'm not comfortable with the way the Sharper and now-probably Glenn cuts are going down. But on the other hand, didn't Jamie Sharper just do the same thing to Chad Brown? I guess they all get how it works.

TEXANS84
04-25-2005, 10:27 PM
I think its a conspiracy for us to buy more jersey's. "We sold out of the #31, #56, and #55!" "Ok, tell them to ask for a trade".

DocBar
04-25-2005, 10:30 PM
I think its a conspiracy for us to buy more jersey's. "We sold out of the #31, #56, and #55!" "Ok, tell them to ask for a trade".
I like your style. "SHOW ME THE MONEY"!!!!!!

TexanExile
04-25-2005, 10:30 PM
We're not talking about Seth Wand here. We're talking about Pro Bowlers, both of whom were still making big plays last year.

MojoMan
04-25-2005, 10:31 PM
An unconditional release is agreed on by both the player and the team. Sharper agreed to an unconditional release. You could make a strong case that the Texans gave up more than Sharper did by permitting it. The Texans could not have done this by themselves. The Texans could have waived Sharper, but that is not what happened. If they had waived him, his contract would still be in effect. You guys are talking as if the Texans are establishing a practice of cutting players loose, who are under contract, whether the player likes it or not. This do not happen with Sharper, and there has been no talk I have heard that suggests they intend to "waive" Aaron Glenn.

Mutually beneficial, voluntary agreements, not signed under duress.

D-ReK
04-25-2005, 10:33 PM
We're not talking about Seth Wand here. We're talking about Pro Bowlers, both of whom were still making big plays last year.

Glenn was a Pro Bowler, Sharper never was and never played like one...

D-ReK
04-25-2005, 10:35 PM
and so much for the character issues we lost the chance of drafting a clean cut player in DJ and we drafted someone that has been charged with RAPE.

He was acquitted, get over it...Just because you're accused of something doesn't mean you did it...That's what we have a legal system for...

TexanExile
04-25-2005, 10:43 PM
Glenn was a Pro Bowler, Sharper never was and never played like one...

Oops, my bad...I was thinking of the year he had more tackles than Ray Lewis and still didn't get in.

(What an underachiever.)

V Man
04-25-2005, 10:47 PM
. I bet if ya look at game film, 80% of Sharpers tackles wer 4-5 yrds on the WRONG side OLS. By several yards.
Sharper is good when surrounded by superior talent.

Good Point, but if you look at most LB's whether a 4-3 or a 3-4, if the d-line doesn't pull its weight the LB get blocked and then make tackles farther down field if than they should, if they make the tackle at all. It is no secret, that our D-line didn't play well last year, but you don't see them replacing G-Funk. And I understand that Good D-linemen are harder to replace than a Good LB. But how many good linemen do we have. I just thought that Sharper was still servicable (notice I haven't mention Foreman). I was really kinda of excited about the possiblity of Wong, Greenwood, Sharper, and Babin as the LB's next year. It just seems like every year that 30 to 40% of our defense are new faces, or players learning new postions. And yes I know it is our 4th year and our defense need to make some changes, just didn't think Sharper and Glenn, were areas that need to be replaced right away.

D-ReK
04-25-2005, 10:47 PM
Oops, my bad...I was thinking of the year he had more tackles than Ray Lewis and still didn't get in.

(What an underachiever.)

Wow, he had 164 tackles in 1 year, big deal...There's a reason that he didn't make the Pro Bowl that year...At least 158 of those tackles were on the wrong side of the LOS...He wasn't a leader for us and his production wasn't matching his paycheck...He's replaceable...

D-ReK
04-25-2005, 10:50 PM
We sure do and same goes for OJ simpson :heh:

The difference is that Simpson could afford a team of lawyers led by Johnny Cochran (RIP)....I seriously doubt any college kid could be acquitted by an all female jury if there were any substantial evidence to prove wrongdoing on his part...

Grid
04-25-2005, 10:56 PM
you should try reading the boards more Elite. There have been a couple articles posted on Johnson's supposed sexual assault. It seems pretty obvious that it was a bogus charge.

Wolf
04-25-2005, 10:58 PM
Wow, he had 164 tackles in 1 year, big deal...There's a reason that he didn't make the Pro Bowl that year...At least 158 of those tackles were on the wrong side of the LOS...He wasn't a leader for us and his production wasn't matching his paycheck...He's replaceable...

Yeah, it is Sharpers fault that by the time he fought off the linemen (being NONE of our DL commands a double team).. he happens to be 4 to 5 yards down the field..


I don't believe it the Glenn has lost that much of a step.. NO PASS rush will do that to ANY cornerback...gee whiz how many times did you see an opponents QB have 4 plus seconds to throw the ball???? More than I can count.. and quiet honestly... seems the whole Texan defense was passive .. we seem to play alot of zone...

And some on this board calls for Palmers head :wacko:

TexanExile
04-25-2005, 10:58 PM
As I've posted LOTS of times around here, I don't disagree that Sharper was replaceable. I just don't think Morlon Greenwood counts as an adequate replace-MENT. He is unimpressive. I say that having watched lots of Dolphins ball down here...this is a big risk. I would've preferred different moves, that's all.

BTW, I think another reason he didn't make the Pro Bowl that year is because his name wasn't Ray Lewis and because he played for an expansion team. So yeah, I DO think he had a solid run in Houston.

Wolf
04-25-2005, 11:00 PM
IMHO opinion... if ANYONE were to be let go.. it should have been Walker... and we kept Sharper and should keep Glenn.. those two are/were earning their paychecks


*edit* For the record.. I like G-Funk

Wolf
04-25-2005, 11:02 PM
As I've posted LOTS of times around here, I don't disagree that Sharper was replaceable. I just don't think Morlon Greenwood counts as an adequate replace-MENT. He is unimpressive. I say that having watched lots of Dolphins ball down here...this is a big risk. I would've preferred different moves, that's all.

BTW, I think another reason he didn't make the Pro Bowl that year is because his name wasn't Ray Lewis and because he played for an expansion team. So yeah, I DO think he had a solid run in Houston.


Exactly.. hard to be put on the probowl when you don't get exposure around the league.. heck I remember when the Giants played AT HOUSTON.. And fox played Washington and Buffalo .. AND IT WAS A BLOWOUT.
I was in Austin at the time!

keyfro
04-25-2005, 11:03 PM
i don't have a problem with letting foreman or even sharper go because it allows peek on the field...personally i'd be more happy with all three corners...but if glenn feels that he should be the starter without competing for it then so be it...he can find a starting job else where...i just wish we do it in a trade not just release...but i'm with everyone else...g-funk needs to have a fire lit under his butt...after having a pro bowl year in 02 he's done nothing...i want this team to strive for the playoffs i just think it would be easier to reach them with glenn on the team not off

TexanExile
04-25-2005, 11:05 PM
Roger that! And fire-under-the-butt, thy name is TRAVIS.

D-ReK
04-25-2005, 11:06 PM
As I've posted LOTS of times around here, I don't disagree that Sharper was replaceable. I just don't think Morlon Greenwood counts as an adequate replace-MENT. He is unimpressive. I say that having watched lots of Dolphins ball down here...this is a big risk. I would've preferred different moves, that's all.

BTW, I think another reason he didn't make the Pro Bowl that year is because his name wasn't Ray Lewis and because he played for an expansion team. So yeah, I DO think he had a solid run in Houston.

Greenwood may have been unimpressive in Miami, but it may just be a possibility that he didn't fit into their scheme or he wasn't utilized correctly...I'll take Dom's word for it for now since his job is hinging on the production of Greenwood, Buchanon, and Wand...If two of those three fail, we likely won't improve and Capers will be gone...There's nothing wrong with questioning the moves of our management, but I'd rather see how the people we've brought in play in our system before I judge the moves of this offseason...

It could just be name recognition as the reason that Sharper didn't make the Pro Bowl in 2003, but who really knows...I don't think the league is biased against us, though...After all, G-Funk and Glenn both made the Pro Bowl in 2002...

Wolf
04-25-2005, 11:08 PM
It could just be name recognition as the reason that Sharper didn't make the Pro Bowl in 2003, but who really knows...I don't think the league is biased against us, though...After all, G-Funk and Glenn both made the Pro Bowl in 2002...
ESPN sure seemed biased.. seems like everytime the Texans came up ... it was Commercial time.... I hope the McNair had stock in some of the companies that were advertised :whistle:

V Man
04-25-2005, 11:11 PM
It could just be name recognition as the reason that Sharper didn't make the Pro Bowl in 2003, but who really knows...I don't think the league is biased against us, though...After all, G-Funk and Glenn both made the Pro Bowl in 2002...

Both G-Funk and Glenn had good years in 2002, but their names and reps didn't hurt them either. Plus I think the league kinda wanted the new team to have someone in the Pro Bowl, but having 2 did suprise me.

D-ReK
04-25-2005, 11:11 PM
ESPN is biased.. seems like everytime the Texans came up ... it was Commercial time.... I hope the McNair had stock in some of the companies that were advertised :whistle:

I agree with that...It seemed like while we were on the clock, there would be two commercial picks, then after the pick, instead of "analyzing" the pick, they merely acknowledged it and moved on to Bengals talk, after all, we all love Marvin Lewis :rolleyes: ...Respect will come with playoff appearances, which, hopefully, aren't that far away...IMO we're leaving far too much up to chance this year...

infantrycak
04-25-2005, 11:25 PM
IMO, you're reading some things wrong in this. IMO, Sharper wasn't mad because we lost. He never showed much leadership on the field. NEVER showed any fir ILB's SHOULD show. I bet if ya look at game film, 80% of Sharpers tackles wer 4-5 yrds on the WRONG side OLS. By several yards.

[Ses, here is one for you]

Sorry, but wrong. While I was someone who said Sharper was not as good last year as the two years before, Sharper was an excellent LB and was very aggressive about attacking the line of scrimage. If you had posted the above about Foreman, I would agree with you. Sharper on the other hand did the LB equivalent of a RB hitting his hole. My criticism last year of Sharper centered more on lateral containment and coverage. His tacking technique was poor and he was one step shy many times, but he did attack the line of scrimage.

disaacks3
04-25-2005, 11:35 PM
My criticism last year of Sharper centered more on lateral containment and coverage. His tacking technique was poor and he was one step shy many times, but he did attack the line of scrimage. My thoughts exactly! He just doesn't have the speed to run plays down from behind. I'll grant he wasn't getting much help, but I saw more than a few instances where hecouldn't just take the runner out of bounds.

michaelm
04-25-2005, 11:58 PM
We sure do and same goes for OJ simpson :heh:
Comparing a college kid who was wrongly charged and OJ is just pure melodrama...

DJ homers...GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :loser :loser :loser

SESupergenius
04-26-2005, 12:02 AM
[Ses, here is one for you]


Here here Infantry. I would respond to the defense of Sharper but I think I've exhausted that one already.