PDA

View Full Version : The Suck for Luck race


Grams
10-19-2011, 11:55 AM
Is it just me - or is all this media hype for Luck and the next great QB of ur generation - - sound a lot like the can't miss, best RB since WalterPeyton hype from a few years back?

b0ng
10-19-2011, 12:01 PM
Is it just me - or is all this media hype for Luck and the next great QB of ur generation - - sound a lot like the can't miss, best RB since WalterPeyton hype from a few years back?

Probably goes in the College Forum, but lets just take a look at something awesome that Andrew Luck did one time in college:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF9PFJI_t5I

or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMz9nwy7yYc

or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zuBoOarPMQ

If you don't know about Andrew Luck all I can tell you is this:

Almost every QB coming out of college in the last decade has had a "but". I'll go down the list:

Cam Newton: Great College Career but, he only had 1 year of production and played in a mostly run based system
Sam Bradford: Great College Career but, had a pretty bad injury leading up to the draft. Also played in a spread system so it's hard to judge his numbers.
Matt Stafford: See Sam Bradford
Matt Ryan: Didn't really produce that well at Boston College
Aaron Rodgers: Tedford QB, of which many before him had busted
Alex Smith: Played in a spread

Basically all QB's who are really good end up getting picked apart even before the actual draft speculation starts, but this guy Luck, it's really hard to find the "but"s in his game. He's got the size, he's got the mechanics, he's supposedly a football fanatic, nothing in his background that screams "headcase" nothing. The guy has been everything that you could want in a QB for his college career and it's stunning to watch him play. He looks like Peyton Manning circa 2006 playing against little kids out there.

Grams
10-19-2011, 12:39 PM
I do not watch college ball.

But I just remember that before the draft - they were showing highlight after highlight of Bush and the same things were said of him that he had all the tools, ability etc.

b0ng
10-19-2011, 12:45 PM
I do not watch college ball.

But I just remember that before the draft - they were showing highlight after highlight of Bush and the same things were said of him that he had all the tools, ability etc.

Few things:

1.) Bush was a running back in college and Andrew Luck is a Quarter Back in college. I know you don't watch college ball so I'll just put that as number one.

2.) Bush played in a spread offense and got many upon many of his yards coming out of spread formations with 4 WR's.

3.) LenDale White also played for USC at the same time as Bush and was considered the "power" back who picked up the tough yards against 8 and 9 in the box.

4.) How much Bush was hyped during the draft process has little to nothing to do with how much hype Andrew Luck has gotten.

5.) Yes Luck could suck ass in the NFL, however, as far as prospects go, you have to go back to the late 90's to find a guy who has as few negative qualities about his play as Andrew Luck (That prospect of course, was Peyton Manning). Andrew Luck's hype seems pretty well deserved. I've watched about 5 or 6 Stanford games with him over the last 2 seasons and the guy is phenominal. I'm not a great judge of QB play at the college level, but he is really damned good at the college level and will most assuredly go #1 overall in the 2012 draft.

Unless somebody finds like dead hookers in the trunk of his car or something like that.

Grams
10-19-2011, 12:50 PM
I was just asking a question.

I know a lot of you guys/gals watch a lot of college ball.

From all the media hype out about Luck and all the media hype about Bush, I just wanted to hear from you guys/gals what your thought were.

b0ng
10-19-2011, 12:54 PM
I was just asking a question.

I know a lot of you guys/gals watch a lot of college ball.

From all the media hype out about Luck and all the media hype about Bush, I just wanted to hear from you guys/gals what your thought were.

Sorry I shouldn't have been so harsh.

But yeah, his hype is warranted. Stanford plays a pro-scheme where Luck spends a lot of his snaps under center. He makes great decisions, has text book mechanics, great touch, is like an amoeba in the pocket, and is for all intents and purposes, a gigantic football crazyperson. If the Texans were picking #1 overall this year, like they were for the year Bush came out, you probably wouldn't hear a peep about how some people don't want Luck, like you heard about Bush on here.

Vinny
10-19-2011, 01:16 PM
I don't know how anyone who has watched him play not want him. This isn't a pass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4_w-puInqY&feature=related) but geebus, he's fast and strong on top of that great arm.

beerlover
10-19-2011, 01:22 PM
I don't know how anyone who has watched him play not want him. This isn't a pass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4_w-puInqY&feature=related) but geebus, he's fast and strong on top of that great arm.

you forgot to mention he can tackle too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5STc2_bM7k

b0ng
10-19-2011, 01:22 PM
you forgot to mention he can tackle too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5STc2_bM7k

Video was posted in the first response to the original post. yaaaay.

b0ng
10-19-2011, 01:26 PM
All this being said, no, there is no garuntee that he will be a good NFL player. But with players like David Carr going #1 overall in previous drafts, yeah, he's going to get picked at the top and it's very likely that he's going to be a very good NFL QB in what will probably be a short amount of time.

BattleRedToro
10-19-2011, 01:34 PM
Unless he decides to stay in school one more year to finish his degree.

b0ng
10-19-2011, 01:41 PM
Unless he decides to stay in school one more year to finish his degree.

I don't think he was red-shirted as a freshman so I'm not sure if he would have any NCAA eligibility left he decided to go back to school to finish his degree.

Dutchrudder
10-19-2011, 01:51 PM
Here's a pretty good highlight reel of Luck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BaOEph_vKM&feature=related

He's awesome. Undeniably the best QB prospect since Manning and as Bong said, has no issues with his game. There isn't much to criticize with him, as you can see him throw from the pocket, on the run, out of a bootleg, accurate all distances up to 50 yards. The guy is incredible, and I won't fault any team that trades their entire 2012 draft + 2013 1st/2nd/3rd to get the first pick this year to take Luck. I hope the Texans are willing to do something like that and ship off Schaub in the process, because this guy is a future Hall of Fame'r.

In the words of Brian Regan, TAKE LUCK!

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/8135d066-0c6b-4467-8d28-431f123a11cc.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9do7HRaGd00

Grams
10-19-2011, 01:51 PM
iI have read that he still has 1 more year of eligibility left after this one.

If he is as good as y'all say, we need to start rooting for Indy to win a few games.

infantrycak
10-19-2011, 01:51 PM
I don't think he was red-shirted as a freshman so I'm not sure if he would have any NCAA eligibility left he decided to go back to school to finish his degree.

Luck red shirted his freshman 2008 season.

b0ng
10-19-2011, 01:53 PM
iI have read that he still has 1 more year of eligibility left after this one.

If he is as good as y'all say, we need to start rooting for Indy to win a few games.

I've been doing that second part of your post since the Colts lost to the Chiefs. I am pretty mortified at the prospect of the Colts getting a guy like Luck and him terrorizing the AFCS like Manning has done for what seems like forever.

bah007
10-19-2011, 02:10 PM
The only QB I've ever scouted who was even close to Luck as a NFL prospect is Manning. Granted, I'm not a professional and I've had my share of misses.

The more I see Luck, the more I think he's the best college QB I've ever seen, in terms of how he projects to the NFL.

I get the Reggie Bush comparison in terms of hype. But the Bush hype was completely unfounded in my opinion. I had the guy rated as a 3rd round draft pick the year he came out. Bush was a slot WR lining up as a HB. And despite his incredible stats, the only thing he had going for him was that he was just a better athlete than the guys he played against. His entire skill set was based around that. And I thought at the time (and have been proved right since), that once he got to a place where everyone else was just as good an athlete as him (the NFL) he would not be a very successful player. He is a great situational player, but anybody who projected him to be a full time player at HB was just blinded to the facts by his athleticism.

Luck is more than that. Not only is he a better athlete than everybody he plays against, but he is also the smartest guy on the field (a great trait to have as a QB). He also outworks and outhustles everybody on the field. Plus, he has an elite skill set for the position and an uncanny awareness of what is going on around him.

In short, I have a man crush on the guy. He is the surest thing I've ever seen at QB.

HOU-TEX
10-19-2011, 02:29 PM
I think he'd fit the offense we currently run like a glove. He's got the arm, brains and speed to be a great NFL QB. Better arm than Schaub and definitely more mobility. BUT, that's a pipe dream that ain't going to happen

IDEXAN
10-19-2011, 03:03 PM
I get the Reggie Bush comparison in terms of hype. But the Bush hype was completely unfounded in my opinion. I had the guy rated as a 3rd round draft pick the year he came out. Bush was a slot WR lining up as a HB. And despite his incredible stats, the only thing he had going for him was that he was just a better athlete than the guys he played against. His entire skill set was based around that. And I thought at the time (and have been proved right since), that once he got to a place where everyone else was just as good an athlete as him (the NFL) he would not be a very successful player. He is a great situational player, but anybody who projected him to be a full time player at HB was just blinded to the facts by his athleticism.

Bush is the most overhyped and overrated player to come out of college football. Ever ! This is the guy who wqs supposed to be the next barry Sanders and Walter Peyton all rolled into one.
MNF on ESN led with "Rggie Bush and Dolphins" visit the Jets in NY is the wasy they introded mondays game.
Name a player coming out of his Draft class who gets the hype and recognition that he does ? Outstanding players from that class like Ngata, Mario, Jones-Drew, and Cutler are far less known by fans and sponsers than Bush and yet each far more talented and valuable players. Even today 6 years after that Draft class when it's perfectly clear that Bush is monotonously mediocre, he's still hyped. I don't get it ?

bah007
10-19-2011, 05:29 PM
Bush is the most overhyped and overrated player to come out of college football. Ever ! This is the guy who wqs supposed to be the next barry Sanders and Walter Peyton all rolled into one.
MNF on ESN led with "Rggie Bush and Dolphins" visit the Jets in NY is the wasy they introded mondays game.
Name a player coming out of his Draft class who gets the hype and recognition that he does ? Outstanding players from that class like Ngata, Mario, Jones-Drew, and Cutler are far less known by fans and sponsers than Bush and yet each far more talented and valuable players. Even today 6 years after that Draft class when it's perfectly clear that Bush is monotonously mediocre, he's still hyped. I don't get it ?

ESPN will continue to hype him as long as he is in the league. To not do so would be admitting that they were wrong about him when every single one of their "analysts" projected him to be a Hall of Famer before he had even finished his college career.

eriadoc
10-20-2011, 02:54 AM
Is it just me - or is all this media hype for Luck and the next great QB of ur generation - - sound a lot like the can't miss, best RB since WalterPeyton hype from a few years back?

It wasn't that hard to find people who prognosticated a much more reasonable future for Reggie Bush. I posted here more than a few times that I didn't think he'd be great. I called him the next Eric Metcalf, which was praise, but not on the level of Gale Sayers. As it turns out, I was being too kind.

I haven't seen anyone find any warts in Luck's game. If there were any way the Texans could possibly get him (there isn't), I'd love to see it. He truly is the best prospect since Manning.

HJam72
10-20-2011, 09:38 AM
Bust. :jk:

burro
10-20-2011, 06:39 PM
I sincerely hope I'm wrong, because he seems like a good person and not an egotistical head case like certain other 1st Round QBs of recent memory, but doesn't something just seem to good to be true about Luck? In a way, I actually feel bad for him. It's going to be hard to live up to what sports media is making him out to be. Unless he's on Tom Brady's level or better by his sophomore year, there will be those who call him a bust.

Vinny
10-20-2011, 06:50 PM
I sincerely hope I'm wrong, because he seems like a good person and not an egotistical head case like certain other 1st Round QBs of recent memory, but doesn't something just seem to good to be true about Luck? In a way, I actually feel bad for him. It's going to be hard to live up to what sports media is making him out to be. Unless he's on Tom Brady's level or better by his sophomore year, there will be those who call him a bust.
Daddy is an ex-NFL QB so he's gonna be prepared like Archie Manning prepared his Sons. Luck is far more talented than either of those kids coming out of College. Crazy as that sounds.

TexanSam
10-20-2011, 07:44 PM
Daddy is an ex-NFL QB so he's gonna be prepared like Archie Manning prepared his Sons. Luck is far more talented than either of those kids coming out of College. Crazy as that sounds.

Hell, he might have Peyton Manning teaching him for a year or two before he takes over the Colts.

drs23
10-20-2011, 07:52 PM
Hell, he might have Peyton Manning teaching him for a year or two before he takes over the Colts.

Then Bob needs to do a Ditka.

Dutchrudder
10-22-2011, 03:26 PM
FYI, Stanford is playing Washington tonight on ABC/ESPN3. If you want to get a good luck at Look, then this may be an opportunity. If you're in the Big 12 market area, it will likely be OU/TT, but many can see it on the ESPN3 website. If you have ATT internet, or any of the other hundreds of ISPs listed, you should be able to stream it for free. I use this all the time thanks to my ATT uverse account. Go here to log in if you can:

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index/_/source/espn3/id/0/

Khari
10-22-2011, 03:32 PM
:facepalm: @ the title

Honoring Earl 34
10-22-2011, 04:22 PM
:facepalm: @ the title

OMG ... Bill's gonna use that as a pickup line .

I like whiff for Griff .

Second Honeymoon
10-22-2011, 05:49 PM
I sincerely hope I'm wrong, because he seems like a good person and not an egotistical head case like certain other 1st Round QBs of recent memory, but doesn't something just seem to good to be true about Luck? In a way, I actually feel bad for him. It's going to be hard to live up to what sports media is making him out to be. Unless he's on Tom Brady's level or better by his sophomore year, there will be those who call him a bust.

This

I think if you are looking for instant results, Luck may have to fall in perfect situation. He could pull an Eli Manning and orchestrate his move to a good team also. He has been asked the question and he has been evasive and non-committal.

I think he will end up playing where drafted or being traded willfully by a team who sucked but already has a franchiseQB (Rams, Panthers, Vikes, Jags, Colts?)

Personally, I'd like to see Luck end up in Houston or Dallas. Probably not gonna happen. If he isn't coming to Houston, I would prefer him to go to NFC. If Rams get pick maybe they could keep Luck and trade Bradford. To Dallas. Somewhat local kid who grew up a Cowboys fan. Romo needs to go. Trade him for a pack of smokes.

Whoever drafts him is going to get a very good prospect, that is for sure. And the pressure that comes with it.

Dutchrudder
10-22-2011, 08:37 PM
Link for the game: http://www.firstrowsports.tv/watch/87628/1/watch-washington-vs-stanford.html

Check out Luck, he's awesome.

Texan4Ever
10-23-2011, 12:22 AM
Is Luck really that good? Sure, from the games I've watched, he doesn't make mistakes and is a good passer but I've seen plenty of good college quarterbacks, some better than Luck. Hell, Nick Foles and even Seth Dodge impressed me today!

b0ng
10-23-2011, 01:53 AM
Is Luck really that good? Sure, from the games I've watched, he doesn't make mistakes and is a good passer but I've seen plenty of good college quarterbacks, some better than Luck. Hell, Nick Foles and even Seth Dodge impressed me today!

Who have you seen that has been better than Luck in the last 10 years?

Tailgate
10-23-2011, 11:28 AM
Some organizations just have all the luck. I mean really??? Manning, one of the greatest QBs of all time plays 20 friggin years in a row w out missing a game, then gets hurt for an entire season and it just so happens to be the same year a QB like this is available and they reap huge rewards.

Remember when the Spurs lost Robinson for the season and they end up getting Tim Duncan because of it? These events shape organizations for decades.

GlassHalfFull
10-23-2011, 11:35 AM
I just had a random thought.

Some team wins the suck for luck sweepstakes. Their fan base spends all spring consoling themselves with the fact that at least they get luck. During the draft, their team picks someone else. That would produce an EPIC message board meltdown.

Dutchrudder
10-23-2011, 12:55 PM
I just had a random thought.

Some team wins the suck for luck sweepstakes. Their fan base spends all spring consoling themselves with the fact that at least they get luck. During the draft, their team picks someone else. That would produce an EPIC message board meltdown.

It will be like the Texans picking Mario over VY times 50.

TexCanada
10-24-2011, 01:16 AM
I'm sure this has been entertained before (and maybe dismissed), but its possible that Indy could trade the top pick if they get get. Just imagine what kind of a package some team would put together to get this guy. I'm sure teams would be willing to give up their entire draft plus some of next years too.

Texan4Ever
10-24-2011, 11:04 AM
Who have you seen that has been better than Luck in the last 10 years?

Maybe because I haven't watched a lot of Luck games but I felt that Bradford was a better QB than Luck.

bah007
10-24-2011, 01:57 PM
Maybe because I haven't watched a lot of Luck games but I felt that Bradford was a better QB than Luck.

I had Bradford rated higher than most people when he came out and even I think Luck is way better.

His floor and ceiling are both way higher.

Hervoyel
10-24-2011, 02:05 PM
I'm sure this has been entertained before (and maybe dismissed), but its possible that Indy could trade the top pick if they get get. Just imagine what kind of a package some team would put together to get this guy. I'm sure teams would be willing to give up their entire draft plus some of next years too.

I think they'd be better off doing that if they could. What we're seeing this year isn't just the result of Peyton Manning not being in there. That team has real problems. Skill positions are fine (if under performing because of their QB situation) but they have no depth and their lines are crap. They have the look of a team that's been standing pat for too long. I'd bet that if Manning were playing this year they'd still be at or under .500

They've been due a serious rebuilding cycle and this is it. It just looks even worse without Manning.

Second Honeymoon
10-24-2011, 04:07 PM
Some organizations just have all the luck. I mean really??? Manning, one of the greatest QBs of all time plays 20 friggin years in a row w out missing a game, then gets hurt for an entire season and it just so happens to be the same year a QB like this is available and they reap huge rewards.

Remember when the Spurs lost Robinson for the season and they end up getting Tim Duncan because of it? These events shape organizations for decades.

The David Robinson comparison was exactly what I thought of. They have an abysmal year and add Duncan. Instant recharge.

badboy
10-24-2011, 09:22 PM
I think I'm rooting for NC to have first pick. They have so much tied up in Cam Newton they could trade first round pick and with correct selections could become SB contenders.

Texans have so many holes to fill to give up much unless they makes trades. For example they trade Mario to New England for 1st and a 2nd.
They trade Schaub to Dolphins for a 1st in 2012 and 1st in 2013.

Texans offer Panthers the Dolphins 2012 first, Texans own first and Texans 2013 first and Dolphins 2013 first round selections for the first pick 2012 draft.

Texans draft Andrew Luck 1st pick. They use the NE first to select NT Dontari Poe (should be 30-32).

2nd (Texans) WR Kendall Wright
2nd (N.E.) CB Casey Hayward
3rd RG Kevin Zeitler Wisconsin
4th SS/FS/CB Winston Guy
5th C/RT/OG Blake Baylor.

Second Honeymoon
10-25-2011, 08:48 PM
I think I'm rooting for NC to have first pick. They have so much tied up in Cam Newton they could trade first round pick and with correct selections could become SB contenders.

Texans have so many holes to fill to give up much unless they makes trades. For example they trade Mario to New England for 1st and a 2nd.
They trade Schaub to Dolphins for a 1st in 2012 and 1st in 2013.

Texans offer Panthers the Dolphins 2012 first, Texans own first and Texans 2013 first and Dolphins 2013 first round selections for the first pick 2012 draft.

Texans draft Andrew Luck 1st pick. They use the NE first to select NT Dontari Poe (should be 30-32).

2nd (Texans) WR Kendall Wright
2nd (N.E.) CB Casey Hayward
3rd RG Kevin Zeitler Wisconsin
4th SS/FS/CB Winston Guy
5th C/RT/OG Blake Baylor.

The only way Luck comes here is if he forces his way here ala Eli Manning.
His dad is a Houston guy but did he grow up a Texans fan?
I am fine with Matt. Matt has been part of the reason things have turned around offensively since he got here.
Far from perfect but we have bigger deficiencies to address

Lucky
10-26-2011, 07:35 AM
For example they trade Mario to New England for 1st and a 2nd.
They trade Schaub to Dolphins for a 1st in 2012 and 1st in 2013.

No one is giving a single 1st round pick for Schaub. Much less two. With one being a top 5 pick.

Mario is worth more than a low 1st (maybe the lowest) and 2nd.

And Andrew Luck is only coming to Houston if his team has a road game versus the Texans.

Blake
10-26-2011, 08:38 AM
Jeff Saturday says Colts were out-coached by the Saints.

Kendall Langford & Tony McDaniel say the Dolphin coaches called an incorrect defense on the Denver 2 point conversion.



If that doesnt sound like 2 coaching staff's workign their tail's off to lose games then I dont know what does. They say there is no way a player would put that much work into a season to tank it. Well apparently the coaches are OK with it.

I heard a stat from Chucky on ESPN radio that said no team in the history of the NFL has given up a 15 point lead with less than 3 minutes to go.

Rey
10-26-2011, 11:19 AM
And Andrew Luck is only coming to Houston if his team has a road game versus the Texans.

And on my Madden franchise.....:user:

bah007
10-26-2011, 11:21 AM
Jeff Saturday says Colts were out-coached by the Saints.

Kendall Langford & Tony McDaniel say the Dolphin coaches called an incorrect defense on the Denver 2 point conversion.



If that doesnt sound like 2 coaching staff's workign their tail's off to lose games then I dont know what does. They say there is no way a player would put that much work into a season to tank it. Well apparently the coaches are OK with it.

I heard a stat from Chucky on ESPN radio that said no team in the history of the NFL has given up a 15 point lead with less than 3 minutes to go.

Nobody could ever convince me that a coach or player in the NFL has agreed to tank games just so their team could get a better draft pick. There is too much riding on it. Their entire future depends on their performance. Not to mention nearly all of them are egomaniacs.

Now, the front office is a different story. I actually believe that the people in the front office would desire such a result. But the people on the field? No way.

Blake
10-26-2011, 11:30 AM
Nobody could ever convince me that a coach or player in the NFL has agreed to tank games just so their team could get a better draft pick. There is too much riding on it. Their entire future depends on their performance. Not to mention nearly all of them are egomaniacs.

Now, the front office is a different story. I actually believe that the people in the front office would desire such a result. But the people on the field? No way.

You dont think its a possibility that ownership would request that their coaches create a less than stellar game plan?

"No, Mike Nolan, we wont fire you. We know you are just performing sup par to better this franchise. In fact we will give you job security and a nice little bonus."

Second Honeymoon
10-26-2011, 12:32 PM
If an owner did that, he would be risking his franchise. In other words, billions of dollars.
And that would be a secret impossible to keep.

Face it, the Colts are awful. The Dolphins don't have a QB and have lost like 11 of last 12 home games. Awful.

They don't have to try and lose. It's coming naturally.

thunderkyss
10-26-2011, 12:41 PM
I think I'm rooting for NC to have first pick. They have so much tied up in Cam Newton they could trade first round pick and with correct selections could become SB contenders.

Texans have so many holes to fill to give up much unless they makes trades. For example they trade Mario to New England for 1st and a 2nd.

What if we put Mario Williams, Ben Tate & our first round pick to the Rams (if they win & aren't in need for a QB?)

Then we get luck to sit & watch Matt for a year or two & we continue to win until Luck is ready to play?

:koolaid:

thunderkyss
10-26-2011, 12:43 PM
Jeff Saturday says Colts were out-coached by the Saints.

Kendall Langford & Tony McDaniel say the Dolphin coaches called an incorrect defense on the Denver 2 point conversion.



If that doesnt sound like 2 coaching staff's workign their tail's off to lose games then I dont know what does. They say there is no way a player would put that much work into a season to tank it. Well apparently the coaches are OK with it.

I heard a stat from Chucky on ESPN radio that said no team in the history of the NFL has given up a 15 point lead with less than 3 minutes to go.

Doesn't make sense for Sporano to tank it..... he's gone if he doesn't win. He won't be picking Andrew Luck regardless if the Dolphins get the first pick.

badboy
10-26-2011, 01:30 PM
No one is giving a single 1st round pick for Schaub. Much less two. With one being a top 5 pick.
Mario is worth more than a low 1st (maybe the lowest) and 2nd.

And Andrew Luck is only coming to Houston if his team has a road game versus the Texans.I've thought about this a lot and I just don't agree with you. Dolphins need a huge year in 2012 and after Luck the QBs fall off a lot. Dolphins could sell a QB with 3 straight years averaging 4500 yds especially if Texans go deep into playoffs. Luck is the only QB I think could start & be successful @ Miami rooke year.

We gave two 2nds for Schaub knowing little about him. I think 2 firsts with teams knowing what he delivers is reasonable. The pressure is on Miami not Houston.

badboy
10-26-2011, 01:35 PM
What if we put Mario Williams, Ben Tate & our first round pick to the Rams (if they win & aren't in need for a QB?)

Then we get luck to sit & watch Matt for a year or two & we continue to win until Luck is ready to play?

:koolaid:Schaub's contract ends after 2012 season so he could tutor only one year. I do not want to trade either Foster or Tate as we finally have that position locked down. Also Rams don't really need a DE. Also, in our O. Luck can start immediately.

thunderkyss
10-26-2011, 01:40 PM
Also, in our O. Luck can start immediately.

No QB needs to start right away. Whether they can or not. However good he can be, he can be better by taking his time & learning the game before getting beat to shit.

badboy
10-26-2011, 02:05 PM
The only way Luck comes here is if he forces his way here ala Eli Manning.
His dad is a Houston guy but did he grow up a Texans fan?
I am fine with Matt. Matt has been part of the reason things have turned around offensively since he got here.
Far from perfect but we have bigger deficiencies to address

We better find a QB somewhere as Schaub's deal is up end of 2012. Options:
re-sign MS at much higher contract (don't forget that Mario is FA after this season). Other FA after this season,

Pos Player FA Status Previous Team Current Team RB Arian Foster RFA Houston Texans Free Agent RB Derrick Ward UFA Houston Texans Free Agent WR Bryant Johnson UFA Houston Texans Free Agent TE Joel Dreessen UFA Houston Texans Free Agent PK Neil Rackers UFA Houston Texans Free Agent DL Damione Lewis UFA Houston Texans Free Agent LB Mario Williams UFA Houston Texans Free Agent

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=By+Team&y=2012#ixzz1bucEmxtf

badboy
10-26-2011, 02:07 PM
No QB needs to start right away. Whether they can or not. However good he can be, he can be better by taking his time & learning the game before getting beat to shit.If you can get Luck and keep Schaub for his last year, great. You are gonna need at least 2 firsts rounds next draft to get Luck maybe more.

RagingBull
10-26-2011, 02:09 PM
I've thought about this a lot and I just don't agree with you. Dolphins need a huge year in 2012 and after Luck the QBs fall off a lot. Dolphins could sell a QB with 3 straight years averaging 4500 yds especially if Texans go deep into playoffs. Luck is the only QB I think could start & be successful @ Miami rooke year.

We gave two 2nds for Schaub knowing little about him. I think 2 firsts with teams knowing what he delivers is reasonable. The pressure is on Miami not Houston.

I think Schaub would bring similar draft picks to what the Broncos got for Cutler.

bah007
10-26-2011, 02:18 PM
You dont think its a possibility that ownership would request that their coaches create a less than stellar game plan?

"No, Mike Nolan, we wont fire you. We know you are just performing sup par to better this franchise. In fact we will give you job security and a nice little bonus."

No, I don't. A coach's job security is based on how much he wins. Losing on purpose just gives them more ammunition against you come contract time. What possible assurance could they give him that would make him believe losing is in his best interest?

What if they turn their back on him and fire him? Now he is really screwed. Who the hell would hire him after that disaster of a season?

If you were to say that the front office is secretly hoping for losses and may actually try to make some moves that might hurt the team in the short term, I would say yeah I can believe that. But there is no way they would ever get the coaches or the players involved. There is no way it could be pulled off without friction.

Can you imagine an owner or front office personnel walking into a locker room full of coaches and professional athletes and pulling this one off?:

"Hey guys, what's up? As you all know, we are the worst team in the league. But there is hope. If we lose the rest of our games on purpose we will get the #1 pick in the draft. Then, we can select a kid who is barely old enough to drink and he will save us. That's right, I have more belief in this kid who has never played a professional down than I do in all of you."

That should go over real well..

badboy
10-26-2011, 02:20 PM
I think Schaub would bring similar draft picks to what the Broncos got for Cutler.a first and conditional 2013 that could upgrade to a first. Yep, I kept that in mind. Cutler has been out of NFl for a bit and Schaub has been making hay while sun shines. If Matt takes Texans to 11-5 or more, Miami should be drooling. Like Oakland they may be willing to pay and pay big. Dolphins could select other players but need a QB desperately.

eriadoc
10-26-2011, 02:56 PM
a first and conditional 2013 that could upgrade to a first. Yep, I kept that in mind. Cutler has been out of NFl for a bit and Schaub has been making hay while sun shines. If Matt takes Texans to 11-5 or more, Miami should be drooling. Like Oakland they may be willing to pay and pay big. Dolphins could select other players but need a QB desperately.

Huh?

Blake
10-26-2011, 03:10 PM
Doesn't make sense for Sporano to tank it..... he's gone if he doesn't win. He won't be picking Andrew Luck regardless if the Dolphins get the first pick.

Who said anything about Sporano? It doesnt take a head coach to make them lose. Just a coordinator like Mike Nolan to call the wrong defense on key situations.

No, I don't. A coach's job security is based on how much he wins. Losing on purpose just gives them more ammunition against you come contract time. What possible assurance could they give him that would make him believe losing is in his best interest?

What if they turn their back on him and fire him? Now he is really screwed. Who the hell would hire him after that disaster of a season?

If you were to say that the front office is secretly hoping for losses and may actually try to make some moves that might hurt the team in the short term, I would say yeah I can believe that. But there is no way they would ever get the coaches or the players involved. There is no way it could be pulled off without friction.

Can you imagine an owner or front office personnel walking into a locker room full of coaches and professional athletes and pulling this one off?:

"Hey guys, what's up? As you all know, we are the worst team in the league. But there is hope. If we lose the rest of our games on purpose we will get the #1 pick in the draft. Then, we can select a kid who is barely old enough to drink and he will save us. That's right, I have more belief in this kid who has never played a professional down than I do in all of you."

That should go over real well..

You don't necessarily have " EVERYBODY LOSE" written on the whiteboard at practice. All it takes is a single coordinator nudging a bad team over the edge with a few key play call blunders.

Franchises have tanked before. I dont understand why everyone thinks its insane to fathom. Numerous instances have been brought up. The NBA does it all the time. And the NFL is not immune to corruption or scandal.

LikeMike
10-26-2011, 05:09 PM
So let`s say either the Colts or the Dolphins nail the #1 pick and the following decision comes up:

1. take Luck
2. take a whole set of 2 years draft picks of another team (let`s say Washington)

What do you think should they do?

rmartin65
10-26-2011, 05:15 PM
I would do just about whatever it takes for Luck. He is, and will be, that good. Arm strength and accuracy, mobility, size, intelligence, demeanor, he has it all. Out of all the players I have scouted over the last couple years (since I have been following the draft), Luck is ranked first. I cannot think of a reason why he would bust in the NFL.

TexansSeminole
10-26-2011, 05:38 PM
So let`s say either the Colts or the Dolphins nail the #1 pick and the following decision comes up:

1. take Luck
2. take a whole set of 2 years draft picks of another team (let`s say Washington)

What do you think should they do?

I would take the set of draft picks, depending on what the package is. If we are talking about multiple first rounders and multiple second rounders with lower picks included, I am entertaining that offer.

A team like the Rams, the Colts, and the Seahawks need depth. People get injured in the NFL. Look at the Colts. They were one of the best teams in the league, but look at them now. Its rare a guy will play almost every single game for a football team during his career, as Peyton did. Even missing only one season in 10 years is rare.

Depth and balance are the two things that teams should be constantly seeking.

thunderkyss
10-26-2011, 05:49 PM
Who said anything about Sporano? It doesnt take a head coach to make them lose. Just a coordinator like Mike Nolan to call the wrong defense on key situations.


I didn't understand the Nolan reference earlier, now I do.

Would you give him a second chance at HC though? He couldn't control his locker room.

Corrosion
10-26-2011, 05:54 PM
I would take the set of draft picks, depending on what the package is. If we are talking about multiple first rounders and multiple second rounders with lower picks included, I am entertaining that offer.

A team like the Rams, the Colts, and the Seahawks need depth. People get injured in the NFL. Look at the Colts. They were one of the best teams in the league, but look at them now. Its rare a guy will play almost every single game for a football team during his career, as Peyton did. Even missing only one season in 10 years is rare.

Depth and balance are the two things that teams should be constantly seeking.

Ditka traded a ton of picks for R. Williams .... Of the players drafted with those traded picks , none lasted more than 3 years in the league. Ricky is still playing .....

GP
10-26-2011, 06:35 PM
I would do just about whatever it takes for Luck. He is, and will be, that good. Arm strength and accuracy, mobility, size, intelligence, demeanor, he has it all. Out of all the players I have scouted over the last couple years (since I have been following the draft), Luck is ranked first. I cannot think of a reason why he would bust in the NFL.

Which is why they become a bust. Expectations work in funny ways like that.

College game and Pro Game are on different levels. I don't know that Stanford is facing any tougher competition than Fresno State did.......

TexansSeminole
10-26-2011, 07:11 PM
Ditka traded a ton of picks for R. Williams .... Of the players drafted with those traded picks , none lasted more than 3 years in the league. Ricky is still playing .....

That's the fault of the scouting department.

I would look at acquiring alot of high value assets if I was at #1. The race for Luck will probably be unprecedented barring injury. Teams will probably be willing to part with more than we are used to seeing. I would get while the gettin's good.

Doppelganger
10-26-2011, 08:26 PM
Ditka traded a ton of picks for R. Williams .... Of the players drafted with those traded picks , none lasted more than 3 years in the league. Ricky is still playing .....

That's the fault of the scouting department.

I would look at acquiring alot of high value assets if I was at #1. The race for Luck will probably be unprecedented barring injury. Teams will probably be willing to part with more than we are used to seeing. I would get while the gettin's good.

I agree with TexansSeminole. Look at the Herschel Walker trade. After wheeling and dealing the six draft picks they got from the Vikings resulted in: running back Emmitt Smith, wide receiver Alexander Wright, defensive tackle Russell Maryland, wide receiver Alvin Harper, linebacker Dixon Edwards, linebacker Robert Jones , cornerback Kevin Smith, and safety Darren Woodson. Smith, Wright, and Harper along with Aikman and Irvin became the core of the Cowboy offense, and Maryland, Edwards, Smith, and Woodson were the corp of the Cowboy Defense that won those 3 championships.

And in terms of the Ricky trade: the Skins drafted poorly. They could have had: Jevon kearse, Marty Booker, Aaron Smith, Jerry Azumah, Donald Driver, Desmond Clark, Brian urlacher, and Laveranues Coles. Had the Redskins drafted those players, and gotten a decent QB, they would have been contending for superbowls and everyone would be looking back on that trade as a coup by the Redskins.

thunderkyss
10-26-2011, 08:33 PM
That's the fault of the scouting department.

I would look at acquiring alot of high value assets if I was at #1. The race for Luck will probably be unprecedented barring injury. Teams will probably be willing to part with more than we are used to seeing. I would get while the gettin's good.

This is definitely starting to sound like the Reggie Bush hype, it's getting to the point there's no way Luck will be able to live up to it.

Peyton Manning has one SuperBowl
Phillip Rivers has never been
Michael Vick... none
Eli Manning, one
Sam Bradford plays on one of the worst teams in the NFL (still)
STafford is stuck in Detroit
Jamarcus Russell
David Carr
Jay Cutler
Alex Smith
Carson Palmer
Tim Couch
Ryan Leaf


The list is extremely long, most of them never live up to the hype or get anywhere near a Super Bowl.

This kid's career may be over before he even starts if he tries to live up to his expectations.

GP
10-26-2011, 08:48 PM
This is definitely starting to sound like the Reggie Bush hype, it's getting to the point there's no way Luck will be able to live up to it.

Peyton Manning has one SuperBowl
Phillip Rivers has never been
Michael Vick... none
Eli Manning, one
Sam Bradford plays on one of the worst teams in the NFL (still)
STafford is stuck in Detroit
Jamarcus Russell
David Carr
Jay Cutler
Alex Smith
Carson Palmer
Tim Couch
Ryan Leaf


The list is extremely long, most of them never live up to the hype or get anywhere near a Super Bowl.

This kid's career may be over before he even starts if he tries to live up to his expectations.

:clap:

Doppelganger
10-26-2011, 08:54 PM
I would do just about whatever it takes for Luck. He is, and will be, that good. Arm strength and accuracy, mobility, size, intelligence, demeanor, he has it all. Out of all the players I have scouted over the last couple years (since I have been following the draft), Luck is ranked first. I cannot think of a reason why he would bust in the NFL.

The probability that Luck will be what people think he will be is pretty small. Let's look at QBs selected with the first pick since 1983:

1983: John Elway
1987: Vinny Testeverde
1989: Troy Aikman
1990: Jeff George
1993: Drew bledsoe
1998: Peyton Manning
2001: Michael Vick
2002: David Carr
2003: Carson Palmer
2004: Eli Manning
2005: ALex Smith
2007: Jamarcus Russell
2009: Matthew Stafford
2010:Sam Bradford

I think you have to take Luck. It is more likely he does "ok" than his a complete bust or superstar. He could have the career of Drew Bledsoe or Vinny Testaverde and it would be a very respectable and solid pick. But you said, " I would do just about whatever it takes for Luck." To justify that, Luck would need to become a superstar in the league who can take over a game, lead a deficient team to the promised land, and do it consistently over a long and storied career. Elway, Aikman, Peyton are the only QBs on that list who meet that criteria? That's it.

Now, you may say that's not bad odds, 3/14. But I would counter and say its a lot worse than that. The reason being that of that group only Manning played in the salary cap era post (1994). So if you look at those numbers it looks A LOT worse: 10%. Now take the scenario that Luck busts and the team that took him was the worst team. In that scenario, that team is setback a few years. Now, if another team trades a MASSIVE ransom for Luck and he busts they could be setback 3-4 additional years.

Then, think of the story of Carson Palmer. He was looking great until one fluke injury in the playoff occurs and he is never the same again. Unlike basketball, the NFL is a TEAM game. There is only 1 John Elway, Troy Aikman, and Peyton Manning. As good as Luck may look, I don't think he is in that class.

gary
10-26-2011, 09:55 PM
I don't know if the Texans have to have Luck or not but I would not mind seeing them draft Case Keenum. I know he would be a project and he is not Luck by any means but siting behind Schaub for a year might do him some good.

badboy
10-26-2011, 10:15 PM
Huh?Huh? More like CRAP! I said that? Carson Pakmer of course and yes he was not out long but I think you know what I mean.

eriadoc
10-26-2011, 11:48 PM
Huh? More like CRAP! I said that? Carson Pakmer of course and yes he was not out long but I think you know what I mean.

Actually, I wasn't trying to bust your chops or anything; I just really didn't know what you were saying. Thought maybe you meant a different QB. I think I get it now.

mexican_texan
10-27-2011, 12:15 AM
I'm sure this has been entertained before (and maybe dismissed), but its possible that Indy could trade the top pick if they get get. Just imagine what kind of a package some team would put together to get this guy. I'm sure teams would be willing to give up their entire draft plus some of next years too.

The only way Luck comes here is if he forces his way here ala Eli Manning.
His dad is a Houston guy but did he grow up a Texans fan?
I am fine with Matt. Matt has been part of the reason things have turned around offensively since he got here.
Far from perfect but we have bigger deficiencies to address

Interesting you two say this, there's been rumblings that Luck will in fact pull a Marino/Eli and get himself in the team he wants. Considering who his father is, I'm inclined to believe that, Luck may not necessarily go for the big money on his first contract.

Doppelganger
10-27-2011, 01:42 PM
Interesting you two say this, there's been rumblings that Luck will in fact pull a Marino/Eli and get himself in the team he wants. Considering who his father is, I'm inclined to believe that, Luck may not necessarily go for the big money on his first contract.

If that's the case where do you think he would want to go?

b0ng
10-29-2011, 01:30 AM
Maybe because I haven't watched a lot of Luck games but I felt that Bradford was a better QB than Luck.

Bradford had mondo injury issues coming out and played in a spread, so it wasn't a for sure thing that he could run an offense in the NFL with multiple progressions, or even what his progressions looked like when he was at OU.

If Luck gets a gnarly injury sometime this year he would still be considered a better prospect than Bradford simply based on how effective he is at running a pro-style offense.

b0ng
10-29-2011, 01:38 AM
Which is why they become a bust. Expectations work in funny ways like that.

College game and Pro Game are on different levels. I don't know that Stanford is facing any tougher competition than Fresno State did.......

So Andrew Luck is going to bust because Stanford hasn't played a hard enough schedule or you just think he's the next David Carr?

Please do break this one down college football expert GP.

thunderkyss
10-29-2011, 10:44 AM
Bradford had mondo injury issues coming out and played in a spread, so it wasn't a for sure thing that he could run an offense in the NFL with multiple progressions, or even what his progressions looked like when he was at OU.

If Luck gets a gnarly injury sometime this year he would still be considered a better prospect than Bradford simply based on how effective he is at running a pro-style offense.

But the pro style is getting more & more "spread" oriented.

b0ng
10-29-2011, 11:13 AM
But the pro style is getting more & more "spread" oriented.

Yeah but most pro offenses aren't 4WR/5WR Shotgun sets 90% of the time like some of the offenses you see in college. You have QB's who may have issues with footwork being under center as well as most pro scouts can't really identify the progressions one of these spread college QB's are making, or how many reads they might have.

This is why it's still a knock. Many good QB's have come from spread offenses, but many bad ones have come as well.

srrono
10-29-2011, 06:48 PM
benmaller Ben Maller
by ProFootbalFocus
Suck For Luck? NFL scouts from Packers, Texans, Browns, Eagles, Giants, Falcons with seats in USC press box to watch Andrew Luck

strange none of these teams have a shot at him some dont need him

BeerTastesLikeVictory
10-29-2011, 06:59 PM
benmaller Ben Maller
by ProFootbalFocus
Suck For Luck? NFL scouts from Packers, Texans, Browns, Eagles, Giants, Falcons with seats in USC press box to watch Andrew Luck

strange none of these teams have a shot at him some dont need him

Or they are just getting a jump start on their game plan when they have to play against him.

srrono
10-29-2011, 07:08 PM
Or they are just getting a jump start on their game plan when they have to play against him.

due diligence yeah could be

badboy
10-29-2011, 10:12 PM
benmaller Ben Maller
by ProFootbalFocus
Suck For Luck? NFL scouts from Packers, Texans, Browns, Eagles, Giants, Falcons with seats in USC press box to watch Andrew Luck

strange none of these teams have a shot at him some dont need himSo Luck is the only possible NFL draftee on either team?
Hmm.

TEXANRED
10-29-2011, 10:24 PM
Or they are just getting a jump start on their game plan when they have to play against him.

True, the Texans could be playing against him twice a year after this next draft.

Lucky
10-30-2011, 12:24 AM
So Luck is the only possible NFL draftee on either team?
Hmm.

There were about 5 1st round picks playing in the STANFORD-USC game.

Very impressed with how Luck responded to the pick six in the 4th quarter. He doesn't have the overwhelming ability that Cam Newton possesses. But, Luck has ability, leadership, and poise. He is probably the safest #1 pick in years.

PapaL
10-30-2011, 12:26 AM
Luck is gonna be a beast. I hope he goes to Miami. They need some Luck. Indy needs to suck for the next 10 years.

ArlingtonTexan
10-30-2011, 09:29 AM
benmaller Ben Maller
by ProFootbalFocus
Suck For Luck? NFL scouts from Packers, Texans, Browns, Eagles, Giants, Falcons with seats in USC press box to watch Andrew Luck

strange none of these teams have a shot at him some dont need him

Ben Maller has in sports talk, etc long enough to know that at a game like that there are plenty of scouts and plenty of prospects. This how bad rumors get started.

steelbtexan
10-30-2011, 09:42 AM
Hopefully they were scouting Martin and DeCastro.

IDEXAN
10-30-2011, 10:38 AM
I thought the USC QB had a better arm than Luck, but probably not the field general that the Stanford QB is. I think Luck and friends were "lucky" to win last nights game.

b0ng
10-31-2011, 01:41 PM
I thought the USC QB had a better arm than Luck, but probably not the field general that the Stanford QB is. I think Luck and friends were "lucky" to win last nights game.

Matt Barkley is a damn good QB himself and would probably go #1 overall in any draft not containing Andrew Luck. I have a feeling if Luck goes pro, Barkley goes back for another year at USC. If Luck stays in college then I bet Barkley comes out.

beerlover
10-31-2011, 02:06 PM
Matt Barkley is a damn good QB himself and would probably go #1 overall in any draft not containing Andrew Luck. I have a feeling if Luck goes pro, Barkley goes back for another year at USC. If Luck stays in college then I bet Barkley comes out.

I'll take that bet :handshake:

Barkley comes out. Draft slots are now capped no big ridiculous guaranteed money or contracts so no reason to stay another year. same as Luck.

badboy
10-31-2011, 02:50 PM
Ben Maller has in sports talk, etc long enough to know that at a game like that there are plenty of scouts and plenty of prospects. This how bad rumors get started.Yep that was my point. Several future NFL players in that game. Every team should have had a scout there.

badboy
10-31-2011, 02:53 PM
Matt Barkley is a damn good QB himself and would probably go #1 overall in any draft not containing Andrew Luck. I have a feeling if Luck goes pro, Barkley goes back for another year at USC. If Luck stays in college then I bet Barkley comes out.Nuh uh no way. He should be second QB taken and maybe the 2nd overall pick. I could see him going to Miami if Indy takes Luck.

GlassHalfFull
10-31-2011, 03:59 PM
http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/editorial_image/ad/ad582c6dfd358e1d7841c82e288f3496/maybe_colts_fans_are_a_little_too_excited_about_an drew_luck.jpg


Shutdown Corner blog

Maybe Colts fans are a little too excited about Andrew Luck (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Maybe-Colts-fans-are-a-little-too-excited-about-?urn=nfl-wp10794)

thunderkyss
10-31-2011, 05:32 PM
http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/editorial_image/ad/ad582c6dfd358e1d7841c82e288f3496/maybe_colts_fans_are_a_little_too_excited_about_an drew_luck.jpg


Shutdown Corner blog

Maybe Colts fans are a little too excited about Andrew Luck (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Maybe-Colts-fans-are-a-little-too-excited-about-?urn=nfl-wp10794)

That's pretty funny.

House of Pain
11-01-2011, 03:31 AM
I don't know if the Texans have to have Luck or not but I would not mind seeing them draft Case Keenum. I know he would be a project and he is not Luck by any means but siting behind Schaub for a year might do him some good.

I've been thinking the same thing. Texans need to address their QB position in the next coming years to ensure that Schaub can't hold them hostage. As we've seen with the OD-Garrett Graham situation, the Texans FO isn't shy about drafting replacement if contract negotiations don't go their way.

pirbroke
11-12-2011, 11:04 PM
watching Luck for second time right now, I'm sorry but I just don't see a can't miss QB. Not saying he won't be great but I am not nervous about the colts drafting him. I doubt he will end up better than Peyton.

Doppelganger
11-12-2011, 11:37 PM
I don't know if the Texans have to have Luck or not but I would not mind seeing them draft Case Keenum. I know he would be a project and he is not Luck by any means but siting behind Schaub for a year might do him some good.

Sorry Gary, but I just don't see Keenum as anything more than a system QB. He is very much in line with Timmy Chang, Graham Harrell, and Colt Brennan...QBs that put up HUGE numbers in college but were strictly system QBs. UH does not play a top defense that requires him to make reads nor does he play a quality defense.

I don't think Case is worth a draft choice at all. We already have a pretty solid NFL project QB on the team. TJ Yates was just drafted last year. IMO Yates has a higher ceiling than Keenum.

mattieuk
11-12-2011, 11:58 PM
watching Luck for second time right now, I'm sorry but I just don't see a can't miss QB. Not saying he won't be great but I am not nervous about the colts drafting him. I doubt he will end up better than Peyton.

That is a definite plus. Anything less than Luck being questionably the best QB of all time means that we have upgraded out position against the Horseshoes.

Dutchrudder
11-13-2011, 12:08 AM
watching Luck for second time right now, I'm sorry but I just don't see a can't miss QB. Not saying he won't be great but I am not nervous about the colts drafting him. I doubt he will end up better than Peyton.

He is undoubtedly the best qb prospect since peyton. His accuracy, arm strength, mobility, intelligence and ability to throw on the run is unmatched at the collegiate level. He will be good for sure. Super bowl winner? Maybe.

beerlover
11-13-2011, 12:41 AM
I'll admit bias towards him now that my thinking has him going to Indianapolis. His WR's botched a bunch of spot on targets in tight windows. He still maintained excellent composure, exhibiting leadership qualities teams covet. It's just that tonight he met a team focused & hungrier than the Stanford Cardinals.

GO DUCKS http://www.onlinesportshandicapping.com/files/imagecache/article/articles/lamichael-james-oregon-ducks.jpg

thunderkyss
11-13-2011, 02:14 AM
Sorry Gary, but I just don't see Keenum as anything more than a system QB. He is very much in line with Timmy Chang, Graham Harrell, and Colt Brennan...QBs that put up HUGE numbers in college but were strictly system QBs. UH does not play a top defense that requires him to make reads nor does he play a quality defense.

Is there any difference between the offense Case Keenum is running & the offense Kevin Kolb ran @Houston?

Do you think Kevin Kolb has demonstrated the ability to be productive & be successful at the NFL level?


I don't think Case is worth a draft choice at all. We already have a pretty solid NFL project QB on the team. TJ Yates was just drafted last year. IMO Yates has a higher ceiling than Keenum.

I agree with Yates.....

IDEXAN
11-13-2011, 07:08 AM
I've watched two Stanford games on TV this year, and last night for the second time this season I'm wondering if Luck was the best QB on the field ? Just like in the first game vs USC, in the game last night I thought the QB on Stanfords opponents team had atleast as much accuracy and actually a stronger arm. Duck QB Darren Thomas, the "other" QB from Houston, made some really impressive throws that I've not seen Luck make ?
I've now got more reservations than ever that Luck is the first QB taken in the 2012 NFL Draft, let alone the first player off the Board ?

Doppelganger
11-13-2011, 04:07 PM
I'll admit bias towards him now that my thinking has him going to Indianapolis. His WR's botched a bunch of spot on targets in tight windows. He still maintained excellent composure, exhibiting leadership qualities teams covet. It's just that tonight he met a team focused & hungrier than the Stanford Cardinals.

GO DUCKS http://www.onlinesportshandicapping.com/files/imagecache/article/articles/lamichael-james-oregon-ducks.jpg

He also threw 2 interceptions and had at least 1 fumble. He struggled somewhat against a Pro-style D. He had some difficulty against a Pro-Style D with USC as well. He will be the first QB off the board, but he is not the second coming of Peyton or Elway in my opinion.

Doppelganger
11-13-2011, 04:14 PM
Is there any difference between the offense Case Keenum is running & the offense Kevin Kolb ran @Houston?

Do you think Kevin Kolb has demonstrated the ability to be productive & be successful at the NFL level?



I agree with Yates.....

1. I cannot answer the question regarding Kolb vs Keenum.

2. Kolb has not done enough for me to think he will be a productive and successful NFL QB. He has a career 75.1 passer rating. He has 19 tds to 22 Ints. Over the last 2 years he has played 14 games which is essentially a full season. He has a 76.95 passer rating. Kolb is not good. He is 23rd among QBs for passer rating and #4 among sacks taken.

Rey
11-13-2011, 04:15 PM
He also threw 2 interceptions and had at least 1 fumble. He struggled somewhat against a Pro-style D. He had some difficulty against a Pro-Style D with USC as well. He will be the first QB off the board, but he is not the second coming of Peyton or Elway in my opinion.

Peyton and elway struggled in college at times too. I'm not saying luck will be great but I dont think a couple bad games is the be all end all for him.

But i think it's less likely that the colts take him.

Doppelganger
11-13-2011, 04:30 PM
Peyton and elway struggled in college at times too. I'm not saying luck will be great but I dont think a couple bad games is the be all end all for him.

But i think it's less likely that the colts take him.

All I am saying is that Luck has faced 2 Pro style Defenses this year and had difficulty against them. Peyton played in the SEC where there were Pro style Defenses near every week. I don't know what Elway faced in college.

Luck may be a good QB, or even a very good QB, but Elway and Peyton are in the discussion of greatest QBs ever. I just don't see Luck in that discussion.

TheDrifter
11-13-2011, 04:34 PM
With the Rams, Cards and Dolphins all winning...

I'm pretty sure the race is over. I have serious doubts the Colts win 2 games this season. Especially having just missed a chance to beat Gabbert.

paycheck71
11-13-2011, 04:51 PM
With the Rams, Cards and Dolphins all winning...

I'm pretty sure the race is over.

0-16 is almost as difficult to do as 16-0, but I think the Colts have this sewn up. This was one of the two games I thought they could win.

HJam72
11-13-2011, 05:28 PM
If the Colts get ANOTHER Peyton Manning, I'm going to puke....a bunch of times over years. :wadepalm: :overreact:

TexCanada
11-13-2011, 06:18 PM
I'm just going to downplay how good he is since he is going to the Colts.

Seriously though, what the heck are they going to do if Peyton comes back and plays another 4 or 5 years? That is too long to stick Luck on the bench.

TheDrifter
11-13-2011, 07:03 PM
Trade Peyton to the Jags.


Obviously.

GlassHalfFull
11-13-2011, 08:11 PM
I'm just going to downplay how good he is since he is going to the Colts.

Seriously though, what the heck are they going to do if Peyton comes back and plays another 4 or 5 years? That is too long to stick Luck on the bench.

Think Green Bay. This could get fun.

Corrosion
11-14-2011, 01:03 AM
Fluck it , let them have Luck ..... they will still suck. That team is flawed in so many ways , they remind me of the 2-14 Texans.

Scooter
11-14-2011, 01:04 AM
why couldnt this happen before the change in rookie pay? it would be wonderful for the colts to tie up all that money on a backup quarterback while the rest of the team is in complete ruin.

toronto
11-14-2011, 06:31 AM
I've watched two Stanford games on TV this year, and last night for the second time this season I'm wondering if Luck was the best QB on the field ? Just like in the first game vs USC, in the game last night I thought the QB on Stanfords opponents team had atleast as much accuracy and actually a stronger arm. Duck QB Darren Thomas, the "other" QB from Houston, made some really impressive throws that I've not seen Luck make ?
I've now got more reservations than ever that Luck is the first QB taken in the 2012 NFL Draft, let alone the first player off the Board ?

The overall body of work, plus Luck's perfect size, Manning-like NFL brain, and accuracy have locked Luck in.

I just can't believe the Colts would sit him for 3-4 years. They may hold an auction and see if someone is willing to offer them 3 1st round picks plus a bunch of others. Their Herschel Walker moment perhaps. They pickes a great year to botton out.

Rey
11-14-2011, 07:53 AM
All I am saying is that Luck has faced 2 Pro style Defenses this year and had difficulty against them. Peyton played in the SEC where there were Pro style Defenses near every week. I don't know what Elway faced in college.

Luck may be a good QB, or even a very good QB, but Elway and Peyton are in the discussion of greatest QBs ever. I just don't see Luck in that discussion.

I'm not arguing for luck either way. I'm just saying I don't know.

But you don't always see guys coming who are going to be "one of the best ever". Sometimes they sneak up on you.

But I get what you're saying.

On another note, for some of the same reasons I could see the colts trading out of that spot unless it's looking like it's over for Peyton for real.

But if he's looking like he's going to play I could see a number of teams wanting to give up a kings ransom to jump a couple spots and take him.

The colts could still get a good young developmental qb to learn behind Peyton and a slew of other resources to bolster their current roster. I'm actually more worried about that than then getting luck. If you have a good defense any qb is beatable.

PsychoLove
11-14-2011, 10:24 AM
Living in California, I have watched every Luck/Stanford game. He is the real deal.

HOU-TEX
11-14-2011, 10:42 AM
Kellen Moore might be a good one for a team that won't have a shot at Luck. I've watched them both a few times over the past couple years and there isn't much drop off from Luck to Moore, imo.

Vinny
11-14-2011, 10:54 AM
Fluck it , let them have Luck ..... they will still suck. That team is flawed in so many ways , they remind me of the 2-14 Texans.
The Colts before Manning were awful.

IDEXAN
11-14-2011, 10:57 AM
The overall body of work, plus Luck's perfect size, Manning-like NFL brain, and accuracy have locked Luck in.

I just can't believe the Colts would sit him for 3-4 years. They may hold an auction and see if someone is willing to offer them 3 1st round picks plus a bunch of others. Their Herschel Walker moment perhaps. They pickes a great year to botton out.
No doubt that Luck is off the chart in terms of intangibles - he's cerebral (actually he's really kinda nerdy), a consumate team guy, and physically he's NFL-TE sized and very durable. He's accurrate but don't know if he's supremely accurate, and his arm strength is slightly above average, , B- to B range in we are using letter grades ?
Those are my thoughts. It's just that the 2 games I watched him play this year aginst 2 very good teams (USC & Oregon), I didn't see a guy who really commanded the game like a truely magnificient talent like an Elway was. He's more of a game-manager IMO, which is certainly valuable.
But the 2012 Draft is going to be great with or without Luck because the slot money for the top picks (even #1), won't be prohibitively expensive to prevent a lot of wheeling and dealing on Draft day, and maybe pre Draft. NFL college Drafts should be better than ever.

thunderkyss
11-14-2011, 12:22 PM
Living in California, I have watched every Luck/Stanford game. He is the real deal.

There are a lot of "real deals" that made it to the NFL & thought they had "made it"

The guys who want to be more than what they are, are the guys who make something out of their careers. We won't know what Luck is or isn't until he signs that mega buck million dollar contract & takes a few licks.

We won't know who Luck is until he understands he'll make as much money sitting on that bench as he will getting pummeled by 250lb+ guys.

PsychoLove
11-14-2011, 01:02 PM
There are a lot of "real deals" that made it to the NFL & thought they had "made it"

The guys who want to be more than what they are, are the guys who make something out of their careers. We won't know what Luck is or isn't until he signs that mega buck million dollar contract & takes a few licks.

We won't know who Luck is until he understands he'll make as much money sitting on that bench as he will getting pummeled by 250lb+ guys.

If he wanted the $$$, he would have came out last year. This year will have rookie caps. His family is not poor. Whoever wins the suck for Luck will have a pro style offensive QB that has been groomed by Harbaugh already in a WCO. Plus, he has above average speed for a QB. Not counting you can't be dumb and get through Stanford.

thunderkyss
11-14-2011, 01:40 PM
If he wanted the $$$, he would have came out last year. This year will have rookie caps. His family is not poor. Whoever wins the suck for Luck will have a pro style offensive QB that has been groomed by Harbaugh already in a WCO. Plus, he has above average speed for a QB. Not counting you can't be dumb and get through Stanford.

Are you saying he is a lock for the Hall of Fame?

If not.... none of that stuff you just said matters. He still has to play the game & the deck is stacked against him.

pirbroke
11-14-2011, 02:09 PM
I would like them to draft Luck and he refuse to play for them, demand a trage and all, remember Eli Manning and the Chargers, time for some payback. I could see luck now, I refuse to play for such a poorly ran franchise, etc etc. LOL

PsychoLove
11-14-2011, 02:28 PM
Are you saying he is a lock for the Hall of Fame?
If not.... none of that stuff you just said matters. He still has to play the game & the deck is stacked against him.

Wow, is that what you made out of my statement? :wadepalm:

Doppelganger
11-14-2011, 02:30 PM
I would like them to draft Luck and he refuse to play for them, demand a trage and all, remember Eli Manning and the Chargers, time for some payback. I could see luck now, I refuse to play for such a poorly ran franchise, etc etc. LOL

I don't think Luck would refuse to play for Indy becuase its poorly run, I think he would refuse to play for them becuase they have virtually nothing of value for him. To be successful a QB needs:

1) a good O line, Indy doesn't have that.
2) a good running game to keep the defense honest, Indy doesn't have that.
3) playmakers to help a QB. Indy has Reggie Wayne who is a FA in 2012 and unlikely to return to the Colts.
4) A Strong defense to keep the team in the game. Indy doesn't have that.

In short, Indy would essentially be a team that needs to be constructed from the ground up. There is nothing good about playing in Indy. If I was Indy i would seriously consider taking LT Matt Kalil with the first pick and then OT Mike Adams or Kevin Zeitler. They should address that O line and get it together rather than throw a young QB behind a non existent o line.

Thorn
11-14-2011, 04:21 PM
Indy has more needs than just a QB. Even if Payton Manning comes back next year, they'll still have problems. My feeling is the Titans or Jags will challange the Texans for the division before Indy will again.

Indy has had their day in the sun, and it's over now.

RazorOye
11-14-2011, 07:34 PM
I don't think Luck would refuse to play for Indy becuase its poorly run, I think he would refuse to play for them becuase they have virtually nothing of value for him. To be successful a QB needs:


Luck doesn't strike me as a player who would refuse to play for them... for any reason.

Playoffs
11-15-2011, 04:40 PM
It's official ..... we'll be facing Luck twice a year in the future.

pirbroke
11-16-2011, 08:38 AM
Andrew Luck Sweepstakes: Peyton Manning Okay With Colts Drafting Stanford QB

http://bayarea.sbnation.com/stanford-cardinal/2011/11/15/2564779/andrew-luck-peyton-manning-indianapolis-colts-2012-nfl-draft

I am a little surprised Peyton is cool with it. I wonder if he gets his health back if he would want to be traded to another team instead of going through a rebuild that Indy needs.

IDEXAN
11-16-2011, 09:35 AM
Are you saying he is a lock for the Hall of Fame?


Yea man, just like Reggie Bush.

PsychoLove
11-16-2011, 09:41 AM
Yea man, just like Reggie Bush.

And Mario Williams........

texanway
11-17-2011, 12:28 PM
I had Bradford rated higher than most people when he came out and even I think Luck is way better.

His floor and ceiling are both way higher.

When you put Luck and John Elway in the same sentence, you have got to take Luck #1. He's going to be somebody special.