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View Full Version : Texans Defense - The Key to a winning season


Blake
10-18-2011, 08:23 AM
So it is no secret that Texans fans are a little frustrated with our current record. All 3 of our losses were very winnable games. I also think it is no secret that our defense has the ability to play well, but still doesnt know how to shut the door on some teams and limit scoring.

In our 3 wins we have given up an average of 10 points per game.

In our 3 losses we have given up an average of 31.3 points per game.

With or without AJ it is tough to score over 30 points per game in the NFL. Unless your name is Rodgers, Brees, Manning, or Brady its just not that common week in and week out. Even with the ridiculous amounts of passing going on all over the league, defenses still have to figure out a way to limit other teams scoring opportunities or keep them to field goals.

Take the 49ers for example. They have limited teams to scoring on average 14 points in their 5 wins. In their lone loss they gave up 27. Their story isnt Alex Smith. Its their no name defense. The Lions have given up 17.8 PPG in their 5 wins. 25 points in their lone loss.

The Texans have respectable numbers as far as yards given up through the air(221 ypg) and on the ground (107 ypg). They have 6 interceptions which ties us for 10th in the league.

As the head coach, this all falls under Gary's umbrella so he is the one held responsible for the performance of the entire team. The question is, how do we bend but not break? We have the players on the defensive side of the ball to be a standout defense. Wade Phillips knows the X's and O's and where to put the players. Why are we giving up over 31 PPG in our 3 losses?

7 Passing TD's (Tied for 17th with 7 clubs)
5 Rushing TD's (Tied for 17th with 7 clubs)

13 Field Goals Made (30th)

Is it our offense giving their team good field position? The punting team has punted 29 times (rank 21st) and pinned them inside the 20 yard line 9 times (ranked 8th). Matt Schaub has thrown 5 interceptions (ranked 12th with 6 clubs)

This Texans defense plays well at times each game which is shown by more 3 and outs than I can remember. But unless the Texans defense plays up to their talent level and potential the Texans are going nowhere fast.

The stats wont show it JUST YET due to our games against the inept Dolphins, and Colts, but this defense is new, but not so improved.

Rey
10-18-2011, 09:12 AM
This Texans defense plays well at times each game which is shown by more 3 and outs than I can remember. But unless the Texans defense plays up to their talent level and potential the Texans are going nowhere fast.


The defense is playing at or slightly above expections thus far.

The offense is playing below.

Cerberus
10-18-2011, 09:26 AM
Why are we giving up over 31 PPG in our 3 losses?

It is the level of competition in those games, compared to the competition in the wins. The offenses that were held in check were the Peytonless Colts, the Henne/Sporano led Dolphins, and a sputtering Steeler team. Whereas the losses came against teams with good offenses, i.e., Saints, Raiders and Ravens. Plus, the 31 PPG number reflects the 40 points the Saints hung on the Texans. Also, with Tenn, Jax, Clev and TB, up next, those numbers will improve.

Blake
10-18-2011, 09:39 AM
The defense is playing at or slightly above expections thus far.

The offense is playing below.

I agree that the offense is playing below expectation, but I dont feel that they are the biggest reason we are .500. The defense needs to realize that they are talented, and have a good DC, and start making teams beg for a chance for 3 points rather than them expect it.

It is the level of competition in those games, compared to the competition in the wins. The offenses that were held in check were the Peytonless Colts, the Henne/Sporano led Dolphins, and a sputtering Steeler team. Whereas the losses came against teams with good offenses, i.e., Saints, Raiders and Ravens. Plus, the 31 PPG number reflects the 40 points the Saints hung on the Texans. Also, with Tenn, Jax, Clev and TB, up next, those numbers will improve.

I hope you are right that they will improve. But as long as the defense keeps giving up the 3rd most field goals, and middle of the pack rushing and passing touchdowns, we will stay at .500 football.

badboy
10-18-2011, 10:00 AM
Mario out, Reed's a rook, we are still unsettled @ CB2 forcing a square peg (KJ) into a round hole, JJoseph has been the luckiest CB in the NFL and Manning suffered a leg contusion.

Schaub is the new Carr with beat downs, #1 or2 WR in NFL out, JJ still inconsistent to nonexistent, musical chairs trying to keep a RB on field at 75%, RG has sprained ankle and Caldwell still can't beat him out & our punter squibbs an important punt.

We can be 6-3 soon or 3-6. Just another day in Paradise.

Blake
10-18-2011, 10:14 AM
Mario out, Reed's a rook, we are still unsettled @ CB2 forcing a square peg (KJ) into a round hole, JJoseph has been the luckiest CB in the NFL and Manning suffered a leg contusion.

Schaub is the new Carr with beat downs, #1 or2 WR in NFL out, JJ still inconsistent to nonexistent, musical chairs trying to keep a RB on field at 75%, RG has sprained ankle and Caldwell still can't beat him out & our punter squibbs an important punt.

We can be 6-3 soon or 3-6. Just another day in Paradise.

I just got really depressed...

mussop
10-18-2011, 10:35 AM
The key to a winning season is a coaching change.

Vinny
10-18-2011, 10:35 AM
two issues...we don't control the middle of the field as well as we should for an odd man front....aka, we need a stouter nose. When teams run on us late, its because our smaller quicker zero and one gappers are worn out by taking a pounding for 3 quarters....hence the long runs up the middle late.

Secondary plays a ton of man and we don't have top man cover guys. We have one top man cover guy. That's about it. Our S play has been poor. Quinn has been ok, but average and Manning has been a bit of a disappointment to me although he has raised the level of play. I'd call them average in zone, adequate in man.

When we load the gaps and play zero or 1 cover this team can stop the run early in the game, but teams that can protect the QB will continue to eat this secondary alive with our flawed man coverages.

eriadoc
10-18-2011, 10:51 AM
How many games did the Texans lose by less than TD last year? And everyone said it was 100% the defense, despite the offense usually playing like crap in the first half.

So this year, the defense is holding the other team to FGs for most of the game, and the Texans are losing by larger margins. So that's the defense's fault too, for allowing too many FGs?

GTFO.

Vinny
10-18-2011, 10:54 AM
How many games did the Texans lose by less than TD last year? And everyone said it was 100% the defense, despite the offense usually playing like crap in the first half.

So this year, the defense is holding the other team to FGs for most of the game, and the Texans are losing by larger margins. So that's the defense's fault too, for allowing too many FGs?

GTFO.dude, the Ratbirds destroyed the Texans D in the 4th quarter. They just imposed their will on us. They scored 30 points. That's not good d. We are playing BETTER defense. Way better...but we aren't there yet. I'm feeling good about the direction, so don't get me wrong on that.

eriadoc
10-18-2011, 11:00 AM
dude, the Ratbirds destroyed the Texans D in the 4th quarter. They just imposed their will on us. They scored 30 points. That's not good d. We are playing BETTER defense. Way better...but we aren't there yet. I'm feeling good about the direction, so don't get me wrong on that.

No, I agree with that. But last year, the offense hung in there and fought in those games, and hung close, and the defense gave it up. In this year's losses, the offense hasn't done that. And frankly, the Ravens game was over at the end of the 3rd quarter.

The defense isn't there yet, but they're doing a helluva lot better than last year. And a lot of the people that ignored the offensive shortcomings last year seem to be ignoring the offensive shortcomings this year, despite the fact that they're perhaps even more pronounced.

Doppelganger
10-18-2011, 11:03 AM
two issues...we don't control the middle of the field as well as we should for an odd man front....aka, we need a stouter nose. When teams run on us late, its because our smaller quicker zero and one gappers are worn out by taking a pounding for 3 quarters....hence the long runs up the middle late.

Secondary plays a ton of man and we don't have top man cover guys. We have one top man cover guy. That's about it. Our S play has been poor. Quinn has been ok, but average and Manning has been a bit of a disappointment to me although he has raised the level of play. I'd call them average in zone, adequate in man.

When we load the gaps and play zero or 1 cover this team can stop the run early in the game, but teams that can protect the QB will continue to eat this secondary alive with our flawed man coverages.

Its hard to argue with that logic. The only question I would pose to you would be, how have Wade Phillips D's done in the run D traditionally? He usually likes to play a penetrating NT as opposed to a clogging one. Penetrating NTs tend to be smaller...Clogging penetrating NTs like Jamal Williams and BJ Raji unfortunately don't come around all that much.

I agree with you on the man to man CB play. Every week I see Joseph line up right on the line of scrimmage and CB #2 giving the receiver a 5+ yard cushion. I wonder if it is time to move Quinn back to CB and let him play Man coverage.

Vinny
10-18-2011, 11:04 AM
No, I agree with that. But last year, the offense hung in there and fought in those games, and hung close, and the defense gave it up. In this year's losses, the offense hasn't done that. And frankly, the Ravens game was over at the end of the 3rd quarter.

The defense isn't there yet, but they're doing a helluva lot better than last year. And a lot of the people that ignored the offensive shortcomings last year seem to be ignoring the offensive shortcomings this year, despite the fact that they're perhaps even more pronounced.The Texans step over dollars picking up pennies more often than not. It's like they can't get their collective minds around the big picture because they are busy putting out fires all the time.

This team is a better team than last season, but lets be honest....if there was a legit playoff team in this divison there is no way this unit goes to the playoffs this season. Hopefully we can jump in that window of opportunity and not shoot ourselves in the foot.

eriadoc
10-18-2011, 11:12 AM
The Texans step over dollars picking up pennies more often than not. It's like they can't get their collective minds around the big picture because they are busy putting out fires all the time.

This team is a better team than last season, but lets be honest....if there was a legit playoff team in this divison there is no way this unit goes to the playoffs this season. Hopefully we can jump in that window of opportunity and not shoot ourselves in the foot.

And that is what pisses me off after 6 yrs of Kubiak and 10 years of Texans football. Honestly, the loss to the Ravens isn't all that distressing. It's the loss to the Ravens, piled on top of the loss to the Raiders, piled on top of a 6-10 season last year, perpetual mediocrity-to-suckiness, and a failure to bring in a group of people that will fix the GD problem.

At any rate, to get back on topic, I don't think the defense is any more key at this point than the offense. Neither side is pulling their weight, but neither side has been a complete disaster. They're both about a 4.5 on a scale of 1-10, IMO.

Rey
10-18-2011, 11:18 AM
How many games did the Texans lose by less than TD last year? And everyone said it was 100% the defense, despite the offense usually playing like crap in the first half.

So this year, the defense is holding the other team to FGs for most of the game, and the Texans are losing by larger margins. So that's the defense's fault too, for allowing too many FGs?

GTFO.

I agree.

This isn't a defense vs offense thing.

Both units fail to make plays that win games. The offense this past Sunday was pretty close to garbage IMO. Lots of people looking at the units like they are separate entities, but that really isn't the case.

Defense forced two turnovers and we have been consistently taking the ball away from opponents. If the offense sustains some drives, puts points on the board it affects the other offense. A lot of 3 and outs when you are supposed to be an offensive team is not beneficial to the defense.

Ravens can afford some turnovers and some 3 and outs because their defense is their strong suit. This is an offensive team. The offense needs to be the one to carry the team.

And in no way am I excusing the defense. They have plenty of warts...But overall, they have been a little better than I thought they'd be and the offense has performed a little worse than I thought they would.

I hate to go Denny Green, but "THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE"...the defense that is...

If the offense doesn't start actually playing like an elite or semi-elite offense then that puts too much pressure on a defense that we all knew would have it's struggles.

thunderkyss
10-18-2011, 11:18 AM
Whereas the losses came against teams with good offenses, i.e., Saints, Raiders and Ravens.

c'mon!!!!

Oakland's "good" offense is centered around Darren McFadden. We controlled him to the tune of 56 yards. Your 24th ranked passing offense had nothing to do with the 29 points we gave up. 4 of those field goals were made after 3 & outs.

Vinny
10-18-2011, 11:23 AM
Its hard to argue with that logic. The only question I would pose to you would be, how have Wade Phillips D's done in the run D traditionally? He usually likes to play a penetrating NT as opposed to a clogging one. Penetrating NTs tend to be smaller...Clogging penetrating NTs like Jamal Williams and BJ Raji unfortunately don't come around all that much.

I agree with you on the man to man CB play. Every week I see Joseph line up right on the line of scrimmage and CB #2 giving the receiver a 5+ yard cushion. I wonder if it is time to move Quinn back to CB and let him play Man coverage.
Last year Dallas had the 23 ranked defense in the NFL. 26th against the pass, and only one team gave up more points per game last year...that was the Denver Broncos. I don't know if you know this but last year's Texans defense gave up less points than the Cowboys did. Dallas was only average vs the run last year...middle of the pack. Nothing special, and certainly not in line with the propaganda you hear from the Texans Marketing department.

thunderkyss
10-18-2011, 11:29 AM
I agree.

This isn't a defense vs offense thing.

Both units fail to make plays that win games. The offense this past Sunday was pretty close to garbage IMO. Lots of people looking at the units like they are separate entities, but that really isn't the case.

Defense forced two turnovers and we have been consistently taking the ball away from opponents. If the offense sustains some drives, puts points on the board it affects the other offense. A lot of 3 and outs when you are supposed to be an offensive team is not beneficial to the defense.


Twice in the 4th Qtr the defense gave the offense the ball with a manageable score. 19-14, twice. That's as good as it gets when we're supposed to be an offensive team.

If we can run time off the clock & score 10 points on those drives, then we've got a rested defense that could probably get us one more stop.

I agree, this is supposed to be an offensive team & they're being outplayed by a half-cocked defense missing their best player.

Doppelganger
10-18-2011, 11:40 AM
Last year Dallas had the 23 ranked defense in the NFL. 26th against the pass, and only one team gave up more points per game last year...that was the Denver Broncos. I don't know if you know this but last year's Texans defense gave up less points than the Cowboys did. Dallas was only average vs the run last year...middle of the pack. Nothing special, and certainly not in line with the propaganda you hear from the Texans Marketing department.

Ok. Good to know. Just out of curiosity, how does that stack up against Phillip's other Dallas, SD, Denver, and Buffalo teams? Has he historically had average or below average run D's?

Vinny
10-18-2011, 11:45 AM
Ok. Good to know. Just out of curiosity, how does that stack up against Phillip's other Dallas, SD, Denver, and Buffalo teams? Has he historically had average or below average run D's?
I'd have to look it up, but if Phillips has the talent I know he will produce. IMO, he still needs some help since he loves to play gap control and lots of cover 1....that takes good cover corners. In today's game that means you need THREE of them. We have one good one.

Phillips scheme works and it's just gonna have issues until we can control the middle of the field and get at least one more man cover guy. By the end of the year I think Phillips will be able to scheme around most of the limitations. If everyone is healthy we have a dynamite front 7 except for the NT. By next season it may be the best in the league,...so I see good things as Wade gets more practices in.

BigBull17
10-18-2011, 11:51 AM
two issues...we don't control the middle of the field as well as we should for an odd man front....aka, we need a stouter nose. When teams run on us late, its because our smaller quicker zero and one gappers are worn out by taking a pounding for 3 quarters....hence the long runs up the middle late.

Secondary plays a ton of man and we don't have top man cover guys. We have one top man cover guy. That's about it. Our S play has been poor. Quinn has been ok, but average and Manning has been a bit of a disappointment to me although he has raised the level of play. I'd call them average in zone, adequate in man.

When we load the gaps and play zero or 1 cover this team can stop the run early in the game, but teams that can protect the QB will continue to eat this secondary alive with our flawed man coverages.

So you're trying to tell me that your nose can't be 280lbs? LIAR!!!!!

Vinny
10-18-2011, 12:30 PM
So you're trying to tell me that your nose can't be 280lbs? LIAR!!!!! I know yer being sarcastic, but I think you CAN play a smaller nose but he better be special. Cody couldn't make the Lions a few years ago, gets moved off his spot too easily and is ok, but not special. Mitchell has been a bit disappointing. What we need is a guy who a Center/Guard combo just cannot move from the middle of the field. Controlling the middle of the field is one of the key parts of an odd man front. In an even front, nobody is over the nose but you have both Guards covered...ie two men in the middle. When you reduce it to one, you gotta get a big bubble butt manbeast who can anchor.

infantrycak
10-18-2011, 01:21 PM
I think you CAN play a smaller nose but he better be special. ... What we need is a guy who a Center/Guard combo just cannot move from the middle of the field. Controlling the middle of the field is one of the key parts of an odd man front.

We need Seth Payne in his prime. He pushed the pocket a fair amount but almost never got bulldozed backwards. And he was no wide load.

Vinny
10-18-2011, 01:36 PM
We need Seth Payne in his prime. He pushed the pocket a fair amount but almost never got bulldozed backwards. And he was no wide load.

Payne is a great example of a smaller (hard to call a 300 pounder smaller) player that has the ability to anchor like you want in an odd front.

Blake
10-18-2011, 01:53 PM
Twice in the 4th Qtr the defense gave the offense the ball with a manageable score. 19-14, twice. That's as good as it gets when we're supposed to be an offensive team.

If we can run time off the clock & score 10 points on those drives, then we've got a rested defense that could probably get us one more stop.

I agree, this is supposed to be an offensive team & they're being outplayed by a half-cocked defense missing their best player.

Giving up 29 points which included 5/5 field goals, 24 first downs, and 400 yards of offense to the Ravens is outplaying the offense to you? You must have some seriously low standards.

Also, you have alot of what if's going on in that statement. And assuming the defense could "probably get us one more stop" doesnt exactly give me alot of confidence.

The defense needs to step up and play better. You cant allow teams to put up 30 points each week and expect a winning record.

thunderkyss
10-18-2011, 02:06 PM
Giving up 29 points which included 5/5 field goals, 24 first downs, and 400 yards of offense to the Ravens is outplaying the offense to you? You must have some seriously low standards.

Our defense is outplaying our offense.

Our defense where just about every player is playing a new position or for a new team with a new position coach & a new defensive coordinator is outplaying our "elite" offense where most every player has been hear for more than three years with the same "defacto" offensive coordinator.

Also, you have alot of what if's going on in that statement. And assuming the defense could "probably get us one more stop" doesnt exactly give me alot of confidence.

What if the offense scored when the defense gave them the ball... that's the only what if in that post.

The defense needs to step up and play better. You cant allow teams to put up 30 points each week and expect a winning record.

I'm not going to argue that. I'm not saying the defense is playing perfect football, I'm just saying good enough. IF our offense does their job, the Ravens offense has less opportunities to score. That's football 101.

mussop
10-18-2011, 02:15 PM
WOW who cares if its offense, defense or special teams? In the big picture it's been six years of the same crap. :gun:

RagingBull
10-18-2011, 02:26 PM
Teams the Texans have beat (W-L): 4-13
Teams that have beat the Texans (W-L): 12-5

It is quite simple: the Texans beat the really bad teams and lose to the good teams. 'Taint that hard to figure out. This goes along with the defensive points allowed. The teams we have beat suck except the Stealers who account for all 4 of the wins. The teams that have beat us are all pretty good. The Texans are, again, pretty mediocre.

Blake
10-18-2011, 02:33 PM
WOW who cares if its offense, defense or special teams? In the big picture it's been six years of the same crap. :gun:

Uh, I care. That is what this entire thread is about. There are plenty of "we suck" threads for you to visit and post in.

fiasco west
10-18-2011, 02:35 PM
The offense took a huge step down the moment AJ got hurt.

We laugh a lot about how bad the Colts rely on Manning and we are the same way.

Remember this is the same team that with toe-to-toe with the Saints in a shootout. The Raiders AND Ravens DO NOT have a better offense than us...if we had Andre. The Texans Offense is still loaded with weapons (and were missing two last game against the Ravens)

When you lose your best player you take a huge step down in quality.

I'm not saying this as a excuse though because the Texans should have been prepared for this. Yet they insisted on thinking that Jacoby would be that guy and were content with Walter when receiving wise he's had one good year.

What hurts most is how much he means to the running game apparently. I thought still that Foster would get gaping holes to run through and could lead this team on offense...not happening...and that hurts.

mussop
10-18-2011, 03:13 PM
Uh, I care. That is what this entire thread is about. There are plenty of "we suck" threads for you to visit and post in.

You would :vincepalm:

Rey
10-18-2011, 03:38 PM
Giving up 29 points which included 5/5 field goals, 24 first downs, and 400 yards of offense to the Ravens is outplaying the offense to you? You must have some seriously low standards.

The defense needs to step up and play better. You cant allow teams to put up 30 points each week and expect a winning record.

The offense ended the game with 3 straight 3 and outs. That doesn't even take into account the various other drives in the game where they had like 5-8 snaps before punting.

The Ravens won by 2 TD's. Even if the defense just holds them to the 5 field goals they still win the game.


Score more points, go on longer drives and the defense's performance automatically improves.

HJam72
10-19-2011, 08:52 AM
OK, so it's decided:

If BOTH the offense and defense had played a LOT better, we could've made it a little closer. :koolaid:

thunderkyss
10-19-2011, 08:55 AM
The offense ended the game with 3 straight 3 and outs. That doesn't even take into account the various other drives in the game where they had like 5-8 snaps before punting.

The Ravens won by 2 TD's. Even if the defense just holds them to the 5 field goals they still win the game.


Score more points, go on longer drives and the defense's performance automatically improves.


The final field goal came after a 4 & out, turn over on downs. They got the ball on the 25??

You can't blame the defense for those 3 points.

Blake
10-19-2011, 10:02 AM
The final field goal came after a 4 & out, turn over on downs. They got the ball on the 25??

You can't blame the defense for those 3 points.

Can we blame them for the 97 yard touchdown drive? The 66 yard touchdown drive?

Listen, I am not trying to blame the defense solely for the loss. The offense, defense, special teams and coaches are all to blame for the wins and losses we have this season. Simply I am trying to argue that for this team to win games the defense has to keep us out of shootouts. And they have to step up when the offense is missing one of its 2 essential players to make this offense as successful as it has been.

As long as the other team is scoring 30 PPG we are going to be a .500 club. With or without AJ.

Rey
10-19-2011, 10:31 AM
Can we blame them for the 97 yard touchdown drive? The 66 yard touchdown drive?

Listen, I am not trying to blame the defense solely for the loss. The offense, defense, special teams and coaches are all to blame for the wins and losses we have this season. Simply I am trying to argue that for this team to win games the defense has to keep us out of shootouts. And they have to step up when the offense is missing one of its 2 essential players to make this offense as successful as it has been.

As long as the other team is scoring 30 PPG we are going to be a .500 club. With or without AJ.

I get that you aren't saying that the defense isn't without warts, but we all knew that the defense was going to struggle some...

What I am saying (I can't speak for TK) is that if the offense plays up to the level that they are expected to be playing at they can make it easier on the defense.

Sure the defense can exceed expectations and bail out the offense, but that's not going to happen too often. And really, no one should expect that.

If the offense sustains longer drives and capatalizes when the defense does make stops then you wouldn't see 30ppg being put up by opposing teams.

Blake
10-19-2011, 11:02 AM
I get that you aren't saying that the defense isn't without warts, but we all knew that the defense was going to struggle some...

What I am saying (I can't speak for TK) is that if the offense plays up to the level that they are expected to be playing at they can make it easier on the defense.

That is the chicken and the egg argument. Which one comes first? A good offense makes the defense better, or the defense makes the offense better? Bottom line, the Texans defense needs to play like the unit they have been built to play like. Even without Mario, and excluding Ryans #33 overall, there are 5 first round draft picks. If the Titans score over 27 points on offense I will consider that a failure on our defense, despite the end result.

Sure the defense can exceed expectations and bail out the offense, but that's not going to happen too often. And really, no one should expect that.

Why cant I expect that? We have 9/11 starters on defense that are 1st and 2nd round draft picks, and a high profile defensive coordinator. With that kind of investment we should have a damn good defense who plays up to their potential.


If the offense sustains longer drives and capatalizes when the defense does make stops then you wouldn't see 30ppg being put up by opposing teams.

Again, chicken and the egg. No defense should give up a 97 yard drive to the Baltimore Ravens. A team that prides itself on Defense and ball control. The Saints, Packers, Patriots, OK, they are offensive juggernauts. But the Ravens should have been forced to punt and give our offense good field position.

Vinny
10-19-2011, 11:06 AM
The offense ended the game with 3 straight 3 and outs. That doesn't even take into account the various other drives in the game where they had like 5-8 snaps before punting.

The Ravens won by 2 TD's. Even if the defense just holds them to the 5 field goals they still win the game.


Score more points, go on longer drives and the defense's performance automatically improves.

Texans had 76 yards in their final five drives

thunderkyss
10-19-2011, 11:31 AM
If the offense sustains longer drives and capatalizes when the defense does make stops then you wouldn't see 30ppg being put up by opposing teams.

It's about opportunities. If our offense stays on the field 6 minutes per drive & their offense stays on the field 6 minutes per drive, then that's 5 possessions total for each team. 60 minutes. that's only 5 scoring opportunities. 2 touchdowns & 3 field goals = 23

Our defense got two turnovers. So we should have been up +2 in possessions. That's 2 touchdowns & 1 field goal = 17 points. But the 3 & outs cancelled out the turnovers.

29 points, when they shouldn't have had the opportunity to score 26.

Rey
10-19-2011, 11:40 AM
That is the chicken and the egg argument. Which one comes first? A good offense makes the defense better, or the defense makes the offense better? Bottom line, the Texans defense needs to play like the unit they have been built to play like. Even without Mario, and excluding Ryans #33 overall, there are 5 first round draft picks. If the Titans score over 27 points on offense I will consider that a failure on our defense, despite the end result.


Draft status has nothing to do with what a player actually does on Sunday.


Why cant I expect that? We have 9/11 starters on defense that are 1st and 2nd round draft picks, and a high profile defensive coordinator. With that kind of investment we should have a damn good defense who plays up to their potential.

The defense was terrible last year and has never really been great.

If you expected them to be able to come into this season and dominate teams then I think you set your own self up for failure. Not sure why you keep bringing up draft status of the players. It's like that is the only thing you are taking ino account and completely ignoring the fact that the defense is coming off of a terrible year, has never really had a great year, switched schemes coaches ect...Had one of the worst secondaries ever last year and is still playing two of those players back there...





Again, chicken and the egg. No defense should give up a 97 yard drive to the Baltimore Ravens. A team that prides itself on Defense and ball control. The Saints, Packers, Patriots, OK, they are offensive juggernauts. But the Ravens should have been forced to punt and give our offense good field position.


Did I say that the defense is playing well or that it's ok that they did that?

I've tried to explain myself well here, but I think you are missing my point.

The defense is not playing great, but they have improved since last year while the offense looks like it has regressed. If the offense is this teams strong suit then they need to be the catalyst to our wins. If they sustain longer drives throughout the game then the defense gets rest and opposing offenses have less chance to score against our not so awesome defense.

The offense is not doing what they are supposed to. The defense is playing better.

They gave the offense the ball with a chance to take the lead twice in the 4th quarter agains the Ravens...

Yeah they folded late and gave up a big TD, but you can only take so many hits before you fall...That has nothing to do with chicken and egg...

Rey
10-19-2011, 11:47 AM
Texans had 76 yards in their final five drives

Yeah...That is pretty shitty...

That's what...15 yards per possession?

Damn, I didn't realize it was that bad.

thunderkyss
10-19-2011, 11:49 AM
That is the chicken and the egg argument. Which one comes first? A good offense makes the defense better, or the defense makes the offense better? Bottom line, the Texans defense needs to play like the unit they have been built to play like. Even without Mario, and excluding Ryans #33 overall, there are 5 first round draft picks.

In time, I would agree with you. They've been together for 10 weeks & they struggle on 2 maybe three drives a game, I think they are playing well above expectations when they are already ranked somewhere around 10 in total defense & they are one of the better red-zone defenses so far. 6th against the pass while shutting down McFadden & controlling Ray Rice's total yards.

The offense has been together for 4 + years. They are playing the same position & everyone has been playing their position going on three years now. James Casey is the only new "starter"

This is an offensive team & the offense should be able to save this defense, we should have expected them to do so at least once in the last 6 games.

Kthx
10-19-2011, 11:49 AM
Houston Drive Summaries
15:00 1 05:05 HOU 20 12 38 Punt
01:08 1 05:01 HOU 20 9 35 Punt
10:06 2 02:33 BAL 46 5 26 Downs
06:11 2 01:23 BAL 17 3 17 Touchdown
01:50 2 01:19 HOU 20 3 -2 Punt
00:21 2 00:21 HOU 34 4 24 End of Half
11:46 3 03:10 HOU 20 6 80 Touchdown
03:30 3 02:03 HOU 20 5 13 Punt
14:44 4 03:47 HOU 20 8 42 Punt
08:39 4 02:01 HOU 14 3 6 Punt
04:01 4 00:27 HOU 20 4 6 Downs
01:55 4 00:38 HOU 20 4 9 Downs

Baltimore Drive Summaries
09:55 1 08:47 BAL 3 16 97 Touchdown
11:07 2 01:01 BAL 6 3 -9 Punt
07:33 2 01:22 BAL 21 3 -4 Fumble
04:48 2 02:58 BAL 31 10 44 Field Goal
00:31 2 00:00 BAL 39 1 2 Intercepted Pass
15:00 3 03:14 BAL 23 7 47 Field Goal
08:36 3 05:06 BAL 19 8 74 Field Goal
01:27 3 01:43 BAL 34 5 51 Field Goal
10:57 4 02:18 BAL 20 5 24 Punt
06:38 4 02:37 BAL 34 6 66 Touchdown
03:34 4 01:39 HOU 26 4 4 Field Goal
01:17 4 01:17 HOU 29 2 -2 End of Game


------

I just want to point out that on the defenses behalf that on the last three drives we went 3 and out, 4 and out, and 4 and out. It gets the point that our offense is playing so badly that our defense isn't having time to rest between drives. I am not saying that they shouldn't be able to play a complete game but I think any teams defense would be more likely to give up a few big runs after their offense stalled three times in a row to end the game.

Rey
10-19-2011, 12:02 PM
In time, I would agree with you. They've been together for 10 weeks & they struggle on 2 maybe three drives a game, I think they are playing well above expectations when they are already ranked somewhere around 10 in total defense & they are one of the better red-zone defenses so far.

The offense has been together for 4 + years. They are playing the same position & everyone has been playing their position going on three years now. James Casey is the only new "starter"

This is an offensive team & the offense should be able to save this defense, we should have expected them to do so at least once in the last 6 games.

You said that better than I did. Rep if I could.

Kthx
10-19-2011, 12:03 PM
Paid it forward Rey, no worries.

TejasTom
10-19-2011, 12:21 PM
This is an offensive team & the offense should be able to save this defense, we should have expected them to do so at least once in the last 6 games.

I didn't think before the season that I would have to worry about the offense but it has become the weak link.

76Texan
10-19-2011, 09:12 PM
I don't see the NT as a liability for us, even though I'd love to have a real force inside.

The last two games are similar to the the early games; the run D was not gashed, especially not late in the game because of Cody and Mitchell.

In the 4th quarter against the raiders, we stuffed them (all McFaden) for minus three yards on six carries.

The Ravens were 10 for 70, but it wasn't due to the NT.
Late to the gap and poor tackling was the problem.
In fact, our NTs were the bright spot.
They were in the backfield quite often.
And they did their job near the goal-line as well (4 plays, if I'm not mistaken.)
The TD by the Ravens was not on the NT either.

thunderkyss
10-20-2011, 03:02 AM
I don't see the NT as a liability for us, even though I'd love to have a real force inside.

@Baltimore the NT didn't play the one gap style Wade told us about. He put Cody (who is a better player than Mitchell) & Earl straight up on the nose, 0 Tech.

Just saying.

And they did their job near the goal-line as well (4 plays, if I'm not mistaken.)
The TD by the Ravens was not on the NT either.

We had that play covered. Called the perfect defense. Mitchell didn't hold the point of attack.

People want to talk about the "great" job Vonta Leech did, but on that play Ryans was doing his job, stuffing the FB. He was opening the hole for both Quin & Cushing to come in & get Rice.

But, Bolden beat JJoseph on the slant & picked Quin off of the play (there was no way for JJoseph to know). Mitchell got turned on the by the double team & the Center was able to come up & take Cushing out of the play.

Had Mitchell done his job & Quin recognized the run earlier, we'd have stopped them on that one, in the backfield.

If Demeco was his old self, Leech would have been on his ass as well.