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Shaft75
10-17-2011, 01:55 PM
We all know that we chose to run the ball on 4th and 1, straight into the strength of the Ravens defense - Ngata & Cody & Ray Lewis. This was a pretty ballsy/insane call to me. You're on the road, in a playoff team's house, and playing a ferocious defense. Why not send the punt team out? Hell, if you're going to go for it, why not call a pass play?

Also, I heard a caller on 610 say that on the same play Walter was uncovered on this play. Did anyone else see this? I'm hoping that this guy was just a little worked up and made this up. If not, it makes this play a triple dog FAIL.

:gun:

TexansFanatic
10-17-2011, 01:59 PM
Punt team? I could be wrong (I'm trying to forget) but I thought they were in field goal range.

In a hostile environment, not down by much, early in the game------you take the 3 points.

EDIT: The more I think about it, that was probably out of Rackers' range. Like 60 yards?

ThaShark316
10-17-2011, 02:00 PM
We all know that we chose to run the ball on 4th and 1, straight into the strength of the Ravens defense - Ngata & Cody & Ray Lewis. This was a pretty ballsy/insane call to me. You're on the road, in a playoff team's house, and playing a ferocious defense. Why not send the punt team out? Hell, if you're going to go for it, why not call a pass play?

Also, I heard a caller on 610 say that on the same play Walter was uncovered on this play. Did anyone else see this? I'm hoping that this guy was just a little worked up and made this up. If not, it makes this play a triple dog FAIL.

:gun:

He was uncovered, yeah. I wanted the FG, but regardless, not getting the 1st kept us in the game thanks to the Ravens O being, well...the Ravens O.

Double Barrel
10-17-2011, 02:00 PM
A playoff team that can't get a yard? Hmmmm.... :thinking:

alphajoker
10-17-2011, 02:02 PM
Foster also had his facemask grabbed and the ref's missed it.

Blake
10-17-2011, 02:03 PM
A playoff team that can't get a yard? Hmmmm.... :thinking:

September 8, 2011

NEW ORLANS— The Saints twice failed to get a yard, and it cost them a victory at Green Bay.

The Packers stuffed Mark Ingram at the one yard line with no time on the clock as the Super Bowl Champions beat New Orleans 42-34 Thursday night to open the NFL season in Green Bay.

I think the Saints are a playoff team. And they got stuffed twice.

Reggie
10-17-2011, 02:03 PM
I'm pretty sure we were well into fieldgoal range and i was fine with the call, but i think something like a sweep to foster where he can either get around the edge or make a cutback for a yard goes to his strength as opposed to trying to hammer it up the middle or off guard.

bo orlando
10-17-2011, 02:04 PM
Punt team? I could be wrong (I'm trying to forget) but I thought they were in field goal range.

In a hostile environment, not down by much, early in the game------you take the 3 points.

This is one of those plays that exposes a lot of the contradictions of the Kubiak haters. If he kicks a field goal then it's "go for it, you gutless prick. if you want to beat the ravens on the road you have to TAKE IT." So he goes for it, and it's "why aren't you kicking? we need points!"

And as for the play call, if Kubiak throws there it's, "RUN THE BALL! We have ARIAN FOSTER!"

Shaft75
10-17-2011, 02:06 PM
I remember the facemask. That was some effin BS, but still, we didn't make the yard that we needed.

Can anyone dredge up a screencap of that play with Walter uncovered. I just have a hard time believing that our braintrust would miss that.

BTW- I would consider myself a sunshine pumper, or I could even be called a LOSER at this point. But this sh*t is really getting old.

Vinny
10-17-2011, 02:06 PM
This is one of those plays that exposes a lot of the contradictions of the Kubiak haters. If he kicks a field goal then it's "go for it, you gutless prick. if you want to beat the ravens on the road you have to TAKE IT." So he goes for it, and it's "why aren't you kicking? we need points!"

And as for the play call, if Kubiak throws there it's, "RUN THE BALL! We have ARIAN FOSTER!"
how often have you seen a coach pass up a FG in the first quarter of a game from the 20 yard line in a one score game? I've been watching football for 4 decades and I've only seen it once to the best of my recollection.

Thorn
10-17-2011, 02:07 PM
I liked the fact they went for it, I really do. To bad they didn't make it.

TexansFanatic
10-17-2011, 02:07 PM
This is one of those plays that exposes a lot of the contradictions of the Kubiak haters. If he kicks a field goal then it's "go for it, you gutless prick. if you want to beat the ravens on the road you have to TAKE IT." So he goes for it, and it's "why aren't you kicking? we need points!"

And as for the play call, if Kubiak throws there it's, "RUN THE BALL! We have ARIAN FOSTER!"

I'm certain there are folks who will find fault with Kubiak no matter what he does.

Believe it or not, I wanted him to take the 3 points before he made the decision to go for the first down.

And I don't hate Kubiak. I like him a lot. But I've come to the conclusion after nearly five and a half years of .500 football that his team is not improving.

Shaft75
10-17-2011, 02:09 PM
And as for the play call, if Kubiak throws there it's, "RUN THE BALL! We have ARIAN FOSTER!"

I call BS.

You take what the defense gives you. They were not going to give up the run yesterday. We had 1 on 1 coverage pretty much all game.

Also, you have to avoid running the ball into a big ass brick wall. A run should have been to the outside if a run was called.

Wolf
10-17-2011, 02:14 PM
how often have you seen a coach pass up a FG in the first quarter of a game from the 20 yard line in a one score game? I've been watching football for 4 decades and I've only seen it once to the best of my recollection.

exactly..

I can only see two instances for going for it ..late in the game and if you are in "no man land" where it might be a hair too long for a field goa
l

Double Barrel
10-17-2011, 02:14 PM
I think the Saints are a playoff team. And they got stuffed twice.

The Saints are a playoff team. The Texans are not. :runaway:

Playoff teams have the fortitude to get over being stuffed. The Texans lack that fortitude and seem to see it as a harbinger of things to come.

BigBull17
10-17-2011, 02:18 PM
Punt team? I could be wrong (I'm trying to forget) but I thought they were in field goal range.

In a hostile environment, not down by much, early in the game------you take the 3 points.

EDIT: The more I think about it, that was probably out of Rackers' range. Like 60 yards?

**** it, punt anyway. I like our odds on a big play with Ravens pinned down. More so than the oh so fragile Matt Schaub or our interior line that weighs less than Mt Cody's left leg moving his rotund ass.

After one of Matt's sacks where he curled into a ball and cried like a child, I thought he was gonna audible to a punt on 3rd down. Like a quick kick type thing.

Big Lou
10-17-2011, 02:18 PM
Foster also had his facemask grabbed and the ref's missed it.

Actually they tried to rip Fosters head off on that play. I only saw one replay but it seemed that he might have gotten the first down with a second effort had his head no been dislodged.

run-david-run
10-17-2011, 02:22 PM
I liked the fact they went for it, I really do. To bad they didn't make it.

Well, the next Ravens play was a fumble, which led to our TD, so not so bad.

Rey
10-17-2011, 02:41 PM
Honestly I don't have a huge problem with going for it.

Not getting it is kind of a problem though.

utahmark
10-17-2011, 02:41 PM
This is one of those plays that exposes a lot of the contradictions of the Kubiak haters. If he kicks a field goal then it's "go for it, you gutless prick. if you want to beat the ravens on the road you have to TAKE IT." So he goes for it, and it's "why aren't you kicking? we need points!"

And as for the play call, if Kubiak throws there it's, "RUN THE BALL! We have ARIAN FOSTER!"

There is a lot of people on the board so you will get someone to complain no matter what happens. So you have to look at who is upset about something and how many people think it was not a good decision.

Most coaches kick there, Kubiak outsmarted himself(about the only person he has been able to outsmart lately). But, if you must go for it at least go against the other teams weakness. If it were the Colts you run it up the middle, not against the Ravens.

utahmark
10-17-2011, 02:46 PM
**** it, punt anyway. I like our odds on a big play with Ravens pinned down. More so than the oh so fragile Matt Schaub or our interior line that weighs less than Mt Cody's left leg moving his rotund ass.

After one of Matt's sacks where he curled into a ball and cried like a child, I thought he was gonna audible to a punt on 3rd down. Like a quick kick type thing.

all of that "Matt's soft" crap was more reasonable 2 years ago. He's not going to break tackles and run for 40 yards like some qb's so why take extra hit's, he takes plenty as it is. I think having a qb who can't run is a pretty big liability these days, though.

nero THE zero
10-17-2011, 02:51 PM
all of that "Matt's soft" crap was more reasonable 2 years ago. He's not going to break tackles and run for 40 yards like some qb's so why take extra hit's, he takes plenty as it is. I think having a qb who can't run is a pretty big liability these days, though.

A liability? As opposed to a statue in the pocket who's unable to avoid any and all pressure?

utahmark
10-17-2011, 02:59 PM
A liability? As opposed to a statue in the pocket who's unable to avoid any and all pressure?

he's been sacked a little less than 2 times per game since he's been here.

ObsiWan
10-17-2011, 03:01 PM
Punt team? I could be wrong (I'm trying to forget) but I thought they were in field goal range.

In a hostile environment, not down by much, early in the game------you take the 3 points.

EDIT: The more I think about it, that was probably out of Rackers' range. Like 60 yards?

No. You were right the first time. It was 4th & 1 on about the Ravens' 21 yd line; well within gimmie FG range.

1st and 10 at BAL 46M. -- Schaub pass incomplete short right to J.Jones. PENALTY on BLT-R.Lewis, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at BLT 46 - No Play.
1st and 10 at BAL 41B. -- Tate right tackle to BLT 29 for 12 yards (E.Reed, L.Webb).
1st and 10 at BAL 29B. -- Tate left tackle to BLT 27 for 2 yards (E.Reed, H.Ngata).
2nd and 8 at BAL 27 -- M.Schaub pass short left to A.Foster to BLT 26 for 1 yard (Ca.Williams).
3rd and 7 at BAL 26 -- (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass short right to K.Walter to BLT 20 for 6 yards (L.Webb).
4th and 1 at BAL 20 -- A.Foster right tackle to BLT 20 for no gain (J.Johnson).
DRIVE TOTALS: 5 plays, 21 yards, 2:33 elapsed
Score: HOU 0 - BAL 7

TexansFanatic
10-17-2011, 03:03 PM
No. You were right the first time. It was 4th & 1 on about the Ravens' 21 yd line; well within gimmie FG range.

:wadepalm:

ObsiWan
10-17-2011, 03:10 PM
I liked the fact they went for it, I really do. To bad they didn't make it.
As I've said in another post, I'm not as pissed that they went for it as I am with what they called.

That was a perfect time for the fake plunge and then a play action to one of our TEs.
The game had gotten "chippy". The Ravens were over-aggressive to stop Foster. Tate had just ripped off the largest run of the day (a whopping 12 yds). So maybe they were thinking we thought we could pull it off again and gash 'em for 2-3 yds and they were itchin' to stop us.
I'm tellin' you, they were primed for some trickeration.

siiigh....

2slik4u
10-17-2011, 03:31 PM
We all know that we chose to run the ball on 4th and 1, straight into the strength of the Ravens defense - Ngata & Cody & Ray Lewis. This was a pretty ballsy/insane call to me. You're on the road, in a playoff team's house, and playing a ferocious defense. Why not send the punt team out? Hell, if you're going to go for it, why not call a pass play?

Also, I heard a caller on 610 say that on the same play Walter was uncovered on this play. Did anyone else see this? I'm hoping that this guy was just a little worked up and made this up. If not, it makes this play a triple dog FAIL.

:gun:

I was wondering when someone would say something about this. If I remember correctly I remember a crap load of people being pissed because Kubiak was too conservative and didnt have any balls to go for it on 4th and short. He finally goes for it, fails, and still have upset people.

Meh.

Im happy we went for it. It was early, the game was close. Baltimore was gaining momentum early and that would have stifled it...instead it went the other way. I am OK with going for it just not the play call. I dont think Ive ever seen the jumbo formation play action bootleg not work for us in short yardage situations. Why we didnt go with that is anyones guess.

Not upset with the risk, just the call. Still happy Kubes showed he's got a pair and went for it hoping to take some breath out of the Ravens.....didnt pan out. Oh well, on to next week.

nero THE zero
10-17-2011, 03:36 PM
he's been sacked a little less than 2 times per game since he's been here.

He's played behind a good offensive line. I don't know what this has to do with the price of tea in China.

If he was even the slightest bit mobile he would add another dimension to the bootleg, would be able to make a play when the pocket breaks down, and would have scored the game winning TD at the end of the Raiders game.

It's ridiculous to suggest that mobility is a liability. It's indefensible.

DexmanC
10-17-2011, 03:43 PM
Any decent quarterback would've made a team pay for leaving a defender uncovered,
i.e. Kerry Collins against the Texans in 2009, or Tony Romo against the Texans in 2010.

texanhead08
10-17-2011, 03:47 PM
Any decent quarterback would've made a team pay for leaving a defender uncovered,
i.e. Kerry Collins against the Texans in 2009, or Tony Romo against the Texans in 2010.

Even one who's head coach doesn't allow him to audible ?

ObsiWan
10-17-2011, 03:55 PM
Even one who's head coach doesn't allow him to audible ?

No, no. That was our previous QB.

From what I've read, Schaub gets two plays each snap via the helmet radio. It's up to him to decide which one will work best for the defense he sees.

As far as him not seeing KW uncovered during his pre-snap read, that's a totally different matter. That's all on him.

IDEXAN
10-17-2011, 03:59 PM
Kubiak and other "old school" coachs say a line should be able to move the DLine a yard in that situation, but is that really a very good stadegy when the OLine has players in the middle like Myers and Briesel who are < 300 vs players in the middle of the Ravens DLine who are > 325 ? ZB linemen are comparitively small because they are built for speed & quickness while straight-ahead drive blocking emphasizing power and seize.

HJam72
10-17-2011, 04:03 PM
Kubiak and other "old school" coachs say a line should be able to move the DLine a yard in that situation, but is that really a very good stadegy when the OLine has players in the middle like Myers and Briesel who are < 300 vs players in the middle of the Ravens DLine who are > 325 ? ZB linemen are comparitively small because they are built for speed & quickness while straight-ahead drive blocking emphasizing power and seize.

I don't think they're supposed to seize. :)

Vinny
10-17-2011, 04:12 PM
There is a lot of people on the board so you will get someone to complain no matter what happens. So you have to look at who is upset about something and how many people think it was not a good decision.

Most coaches kick there, Kubiak outsmarted himself(about the only person he has been able to outsmart lately). But, if you must go for it at least go against the other teams weakness. If it were the Colts you run it up the middle, not against the Ravens.Kubiak has always been the smartest guy in the room...you know that. :peek:

ThaJokaa
10-17-2011, 04:25 PM
Wait a minute! Isnt this the same forum that kept bitching about Kubes not going for it more on 4th n 1s? Now that he does, yall want him to punt? Make up yalls mind...

texanhead08
10-17-2011, 04:26 PM
They were playing against one of the best defenses in football you take the points in that situation.

Wolf
10-17-2011, 04:27 PM
It wasn't a punt situation , it was at the ravens 21 yard line

thunderkyss
10-17-2011, 04:34 PM
Any decent quarterback would've made a team pay for leaving a defender uncovered,
i.e. Kerry Collins against the Texans in 2009, or Tony Romo against the Texans in 2010.

There was some confusion on the defense. They were trying to figure out how to line up. Cary Williams was on his way to cover Walter when the ball was snapped. Walter went down to block Williams. Had Matt took the time to give Walter a signal, Williams would have been in position.

What is fail, is that the Ravens weren't set & still stopped us from gaining a yard.

& that receiver against Dallas in 2010 wasn't uncovered.. Kareem Jackson was... ahhh... I see what you did there.
:kitten:

ThaJokaa
10-17-2011, 04:37 PM
Whats a fail is the face mask call that wasnt called!

Wolf
10-17-2011, 04:40 PM
Kubiak
(on the running game the past two weeks) “We haven’t run the ball well the past two weeks, you are right. Twenty five carries for 90-something yards, I think. This team is a tough team to run on, but you’ve just got to keep pounding at them, and we did. I think we kept battling, had ourselves some good [field] position as a team. A 19-14 football game early in the fourth quarter, we’re down there on the 40-yard line, third-and-8, make a play, we knew it was going to be that kind of play, we didn’t make it, and they started making theirs, but you are right, we’re not running the ball well right now.”

(on how difficult passing third downs were) “We had it under control, I thought, for the most part, until we got down to where we had to start throwing the ball. I thought we did a good job with our third downs in the first half, mixing it up in what we were doing, making it manageable, and we were able to protect Matt [Schaub]. But you’re right, you get down more than a touchdown to this football team, and they know you have to throw, you’re going to have a hard time holding up.”


(on going for it on fourth-and-1 early) “Really, to me, we just have to line up and make a yard. The way we’ve been running the ball, last week and then this week, I’m disappointed in it, and you’re not going to go very far in this league if you can’t line up and make a yard. I don’t care how many people they have on the line of scrimmage. We will stay aggressive, I expect us to stay on the field right there, line up and be able to move the chains, and we didn’t do it, so give them credit.”
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Texans-at-Ravens/daa081ed-8089-4d91-8561-3960371013b9

:hmmm:

panamamyers
10-17-2011, 04:42 PM
Still waiting for the naked bootleg.
Schaub could have waltzed into the endzone, even if it did take him 20 seconds to go 20 yards.

Rey
10-17-2011, 04:46 PM
No, no. That was our previous QB.

From what I've read, Schaub gets two plays each snap via the helmet radio. It's up to him to decide which one will work best for the defense he sees.

As far as him not seeing KW uncovered during his pre-snap read, that's a totally different matter. That's all on him.

I seriously doubt Matt gets two plays each time he goes to the line.

What he gets is the option to check into another play based on the play call and the defensive formation.

For instance...During the week I'm guessing they go over the plays that they will want to run in the game. If the defense happens to be set up to stop a certain play (and really I'd bet it's only on running plays) Matt has the option of checking to another pre-determined run.

They may even have an 'opposite' call to switch the direction of any given run play.

But I just don't believe Matt is going up to the line and choosing 1 of 2 plays he wants to run. I watch the games, I don't see it....Plus I know a little bit about football and offensive gameplanning...

Being able to choose 1 of 2 plays everytime you come to the line is a whole lot of lee way and power. If you are going to do that, you may as well really take the reigns off.

HJam72
10-17-2011, 04:50 PM
Matt has the option to call the play assigned and throw to one of the hopefully open receivers....or sit down and watch Leinart screw it up. :handshake:

Double Barrel
10-17-2011, 04:57 PM
I think the Saints are a playoff team. And they got stuffed twice.

"[Y]ou’re not going to go very far in this league if you can’t line up and make a yard."
~ Gary Kubiak

:kubepalm:

HJam72
10-17-2011, 04:59 PM
"[Y]ou’re not going to go very far in this league if you can’t (put players on the field who can) line up and make a yard."
~ Gary Kubiak

:kubepalm:

Had a little fun with it. :)

srrono
10-17-2011, 04:59 PM
We all know that we chose to run the ball on 4th and 1, straight into the strength of the Ravens defense - Ngata & Cody & Ray Lewis. This was a pretty ballsy/insane call to me. You're on the road, in a playoff team's house, and playing a ferocious defense. Why not send the punt team out? Hell, if you're going to go for it, why not call a pass play?

Also, I heard a caller on 610 say that on the same play Walter was uncovered on this play. Did anyone else see this? I'm hoping that this guy was just a little worked up and made this up. If not, it makes this play a triple dog FAIL.

:gun:

http://i52.tinypic.com/dethnc.jpg

Wolf
10-17-2011, 05:01 PM
uggh at that picture... esp on the heels of the Oakland 10 man defense
:vincepalm:

HJam72
10-17-2011, 05:06 PM
We didn't need Walter to be open. We were gonna shove it right up the....oh...


:kubepalm:

texanhead08
10-17-2011, 05:07 PM
I watch college offenses catch the defense napping like this every week but a NFL offense can't.

Shaft75
10-17-2011, 05:08 PM
http://i52.tinypic.com/dethnc.jpg

Just wow...

Wolf
10-17-2011, 05:09 PM
I watch college offenses catch the defense napping like this every week but a NFL offense can't.

unless it is chris johnson and a Frank bush defense

:peek:

NBT
10-17-2011, 05:09 PM
If Kubiak is trying to preserve his job, he is sure going about it in a strange way! This next game against the Titans will tell the tale.

HJam72
10-17-2011, 05:12 PM
If Kubiak is trying to preserve his job, he is sure going about it in a strange way! This next game against the Titans will tell the tale.

You can't say that until Wednesday.

ATXtexanfan
10-17-2011, 05:14 PM
http://i52.tinypic.com/dethnc.jpg

ughhh

Vinny
10-17-2011, 05:16 PM
uggh at that picture... esp on the heels of the Oakland 10 man defense
:vincepalm:The Ratbirds figure that if it works for Oakland...

Corrosion
10-17-2011, 06:54 PM
Punt team? I could be wrong (I'm trying to forget) but I thought they were in field goal range.

In a hostile environment, not down by much, early in the game------you take the 3 points.

EDIT: The more I think about it, that was probably out of Rackers' range. Like 60 yards?

A playoff team that can't get a yard? Hmmmm.... :thinking:


They were around the Baltimore 20 .... Well inside Rackers range.

I thought it was a ballsy call to make at that point to run the risk of coming up with 0 points on that drive ....
If not for a facemask , Foster gets that yard .... if the facemask is called they end up first and goal on the Baltimore 5 .... and the entire complexion of the game is changed.

So much for calling Kubiak overly conservative.

EllisUnit
10-17-2011, 07:02 PM
people can say what they want but that OBVIOUS face mask on that 4th and 1 was the reason we didnt get the first down.

EllisUnit
10-17-2011, 07:14 PM
ughhh

the CB was on his way over to cover schaub, u can see him running in behind the LBs. i will watch it but i'm sure he made it to him right before the snap.

Shaft75
10-17-2011, 10:22 PM
Maybe it isn't in Kubiaks script for Schaub, but in today's NFL it shouldn't be hard to recognize a white wr that isn't covered.

I guess they have a new wrinkle to work on in practice this week. You get setup for the play, you scan the field and there isn't someone on a wr... Yell "ALERT", snap the ball, and fling it to him.

Texanmike02
10-17-2011, 11:21 PM
I remember the facemask. That was some effin BS, but still, we didn't make the yard that we needed.

Can anyone dredge up a screencap of that play with Walter uncovered. I just have a hard time believing that our braintrust would miss that.

BTW- I would consider myself a sunshine pumper, or I could even be called a LOSER at this point. But this sh*t is really getting old.

That facemask was one of those where we didn't make it directly as a result of the penalty. Foster got turned round on that. You cannot go forward if someone is pulling backwards on your mask.

Mike

Blake
10-18-2011, 07:22 AM
A playoff team that can't get a yard? Hmmmm.... :thinking:

I think the Saints are a playoff team. And they got stuffed twice.

The Saints are a playoff team. The Texans are not. :runaway:

Playoff teams have the fortitude to get over being stuffed. The Texans lack that fortitude and seem to see it as a harbinger of things to come.

Meh. I guess you can look at it that way. But I was simply stating that not all playoff teams can get a yard on 4th and 1.

thunderkyss
10-18-2011, 07:54 AM
http://i52.tinypic.com/dethnc.jpg

Where's the other safety?

Grams
10-18-2011, 08:06 AM
Where's the other safety?

Just above the football helmet on the right side.

thunderkyss
10-18-2011, 08:44 AM
Just above the football helmet on the right side.

Ah.... so he was covered...

Maddict5
10-18-2011, 09:23 AM
Ah.... so he was covered...

he wasn't. pollard was looking at the LOS not walter. not going to pretend i saw it live but i rewatched the play on nfl.com

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d8232cf6f/Ravens-defense-4th-down-failed

it looks like matt was even looking at walter walking up to the LOS. a quick pass to walter is an easy 10 yds at least imo. jesus

Rey
10-18-2011, 09:38 AM
Ah.... so he was covered...

Ummm..No..

That is the kind of cushion our corners get eaten up on all the time. Walter would have gotten the first at the least.

drunkcookie
10-18-2011, 09:57 AM
I liked the call to go for it.. even with a run against that D... C'mon, at their 20 it wasn't a bad call... I wish they'd do that more often...

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

thunderkyss
10-18-2011, 10:36 AM
Ummm..No..

That is the kind of cushion our corners get eaten up on all the time. Walter would have gotten the first at the least.

Poorly covered, but covered. I think it changes the discussion regardless.

Vinny
10-18-2011, 10:43 AM
Poorly covered, but covered. I think it changes the discussion regardless.dude was 9-10 yards off of Walter. A quick pass to the sideline gets the first down, but situational awareness isn't a Kubes strong suit. Hail mary's are poorly designed (on both sides of the ball), being caught with out pants down often, passing gimmie FG's in the first quarter on the road vs a stout D. I could go on and on, but this team doesn't "finish" because other teams have more situational awareness and do the little things better than Kubiak coached teams do.

Double Barrel
10-18-2011, 10:45 AM
dude was 9-10 yards off of Walter. A quick pass to the sideline gets the first down, but situational awareness isn't a Kubes strong suit. Hail mary's are poorly designed (on both sides of the ball), being caught with out pants down often, passing gimmie FG's in the first quarter on the road vs a stout D. I could go on and on, but this team doesn't "finish" because other teams have more situational awareness and do the little things better than Kubiak coached teams do.

Yeah, but Vinny, it's not even halfway through season 6. It takes a good decade to implement those deeper valued things like situational awareness.

76Texan
10-18-2011, 11:06 AM
Schaub was looking at Walter as he walked up under Center.
The safety saw Walter open and waived for one of the CBs to come over.
The safety was aware; he knew he can make a jump onto Walter if Schaub decided to go with a quick snap.
Schaub saw all of this.

In fact, this adjusment was to the benefit of the Texans as it occupied that CB and both safeties temporarily.
Saying with the run was the right option, IMHO.
Foster would have made the first down if not for Cody pulling on his face mask and jerked him around.
The angle and the momentum was in Foster's favor.

ObsiWan
10-18-2011, 11:12 AM
Schaub was looking at Walter as he walked up under Center.
The safety saw Walter open and waived for one of the CBs to come over.
The safety was aware; he knew he can make a jump onto Walter if Schaub decided to go with a quick snap.
Schaub saw all of this.

In fact, this adjusment was to the benefit of the Texans as it occupied that CB and both safeties temporarily.
Saying with the run was the right option, IMHO.
Foster would have made the first down if not for Cody pulling on his face mask and jerked him around.
The angle and the momentum was in Foster's favor.

So you're saying Schaub didn't have enough confidence in his arm strength to believe that his ball could get to Walter before someone 9-10 yds away from him (Walter) could? Or that even if the CB got there that Walter couldn't make the CB miss in order to pick up ONE YARD?

hmmmm....

76Texan
10-18-2011, 11:24 AM
So you're saying Schaub didn't have enough confidence in his arm strength to believe that his ball could get to Walter before someone 9-10 yds away from him (Walter) could? Or that even if the CB got there that Walter couldn't make the CB miss in order to pick up ONE YARD?

hmmmm....

When the QB knew that the safety was aware of the situation and didn't go with the quick snap, IMO, it has got to be that the chance of success isn't greater than staying with the run.

By staying with the run, you have 6 men to block 5.
That is an advantage the offense can live with.

If the safety wasn't confident that he can get to Walter in time before the CB can come over, he would have moved up closer.
It makes no sense whatsoever for the safety to stay put if he "thinks" that Walter cannot be covered.
The safety had plenty of time to make his own adjustment.

BTW, the LB Lewis (who was responsible for the cut back) jumped in from the back side and grabbed Myers' leg, hindered him from continue his push on Cody. This is another penalty that the ref missed on this play.

If Lewis didn't grab Myers' leg, Myers would have been able to conitune to push Cody to give Foster the extra momentum.

That was a sure first down for the Texans!

Vinny
10-18-2011, 11:26 AM
When the QB knew that the safety was aware of the situation and didn't go with the quick snap, IMO, it has got to be that the chance of success isn't greater than staying with the run.

By staying with the run, you have 6 men to block 5.
That is an advantage the offense can live with.

If the safety wasn't confident that he can get to Walter in time before the CB can come over, he would have moved up closer.
It makes no sense whatsoever for the safety to stay put if he "thinks" that Walter cannot be covered.
The safety had plenty of time to make his own adjustment.
dude, that box was LOADED. When you have EIGHT in the box it's a defensive plus. They had TEN men in the box....overwhelming numbers.

beerlover
10-18-2011, 11:27 AM
dude, that box was LOADED. When you have EIGHT in the box it's a defensive plus. They had TEN men in the box....overwhelming numbers.

So Texans need to think outside the box :butterfly:

76Texan
10-18-2011, 11:32 AM
dude, that box was LOADED. When you have EIGHT in the box it's a defensive plus. They had TEN men in the box....overwhelming numbers.

What matters is how many defenders there are around the POA.
You only need one yard.
If you have more blockers within that area such that you can gain one yard, that is all you need.

Vinny
10-18-2011, 11:36 AM
What matters is how many defenders there are around the POA.
You only need one yard.
If you have more blockers within that area such that you can gain one yard, that is all you need.
dude, don't lose your credibility hammering your take.

thunderkyss
10-18-2011, 11:39 AM
dude was 9-10 yards off of Walter.

I know it's not seen much around here, but if that's Reed, he'll close that gap quick, probably take it for 6.

..but situational awareness isn't a Kubes strong suit.

Even Steven wasn't even on the field, how can you blame that on him? Should he have called a Time Out?

I'm really trying not to defend that man.

Vinny
10-18-2011, 11:41 AM
I know it's not seen much around here, but if that's Reed, he'll close that gap quick, probably take it for 6.

Even Steven wasn't even on the field, how can you blame that on him? Should he have called a Time Out?

I'm really trying not to defend that man.if you can't complete a one yard pass with a guy playing ten yards off, you need a different QB, WR, or perhaps both.

Steven who? What are you talking about?

thunderkyss
10-18-2011, 11:42 AM
http://i52.tinypic.com/dethnc.jpg

Walter has to cover 4 yards to get to the other side of the LOS. Ed Reed has to cover 5 yards to get to that spot. There's no way noodle arm is going to get that pass to Walter without Ed Reed contributing to his highlight reel.

& if the ball is thrown to Walter behind the line, then he tries to "shake" Reed to get that first....

Your all dreaming, none of that was going to happen. None of it. If that's Andre, I take that shot, But Walter..... no.

Honoring Earl 34
10-18-2011, 11:52 AM
if you can't complete a one yard pass with a guy playing ten yards off, you need a different QB, WR, or perhaps both.

Steven who? What are you talking about?

I think Matt's long realease and lack of arm strength is a big issue in the RZ and short yardage situations .

As far as the POA and running for the yard Ravens line up about 700 lbs in two guys and they go forward . They also have arguably the greatest ILB in history .

The play that bothered my more was running on a 4th and 3 at the end of the game .

76Texan
10-18-2011, 11:55 AM
if you can't complete a one yard pass with a guy playing ten yards off, you need a different QB, WR, or perhaps both.

Steven who? What are you talking about?

No Vinny, the safety was less than 7 yards from the LOS.

It was Pollard, who can close pretty quickly too.

But heck, maybe he will miss the tackle!

Mr teX
10-18-2011, 11:58 AM
if you can't complete a one yard pass with a guy playing ten yards off, you need a different QB, WR, or perhaps both.

Steven who? What are you talking about?


Jarrett Johnson's sitting right there on the edge. If schaub pops up right off the LOS & tries to get that quick lateral pass out to walter, there's a high probability it gets knocked down (or worse) by him coming off the edge. I've seen it happen many times with many different qbs. & after last week with schaub having 7 knocked down & the propensity for something much worse happen if they do try the quick pass.. i much prefer what they wound up doing. & instead of complaining about the actual playcall people would be saying "why go such a long way to get 1 freakin' yard? just run the ball!!!"

Also, the report out on the field before the game started was that the wind was swirling pretty bad on that side of the field..in fact they showed the ravens kicker in pre-game warm ups having 1 bend considerably during the game; in which i think he was at that end of the field. so a 30+ yarder was really not a given...especially for Rackers who missed 1 under better conditions just last week.

Can't say that i agree with where the playcall went, but it is just 1 yard & even on the best run defenses in the NFL, you should be able to get that regardless of where the run play goes.

Maddict5
10-18-2011, 11:59 AM
Walter has to cover 4 yards to get to the other side of the LOS. Ed Reed has to cover 5 yards to get to that spot. There's no way noodle arm is going to get that pass to Walter without Ed Reed contributing to his highlight reel.

& if the ball is thrown to Walter behind the line, then he tries to "shake" Reed to get that first....

Your all dreaming, none of that was going to happen. None of it. If that's Andre, I take that shot, But Walter..... no.

look this is ridiculous. if schaub throws it to walter on a wr screen route i.e walter standing still, he can do a handstand and still get a first down.

and stop pretending like ed reed was trying to bait schaub because it wasnt even reed, it was f'n bernard pollard and he was looking at the cb and telling him to get over. theres no way he picks that off or stops a first down

that play is on both schaub and walter. thats not even coaching imo, its just professional common sense

Maddict5
10-18-2011, 12:03 PM
Jarrett Johnson's sitting right there on the edge. If schaub pops up right off the LOS & tries to get that quick lateral pass out to walter, there's a high probability it gets knocked down (or worse) by him coming off the edge. I've seen it happen many times with many different qbs. & after last week with schaub having 7 knocked down & the propensity for something much worse happen if they do try the quick pass.. i much prefer what they wound up doing.



johnson gets blocked straight away by dreessen. that wouldve still happened if schaub had thrown it because the other 9 guys wouldve still thought it was a run play if schaub and walter had shown enough awareness

76Texan
10-18-2011, 12:04 PM
dude, don't lose your credibility hammering your take.

You don't think having 6 to block 5 is an advantage to the offense?

We have the C, 2 guards, the RT, a TE and the FB to block 3 D-linemen, the SAM (#95) and the WILL (#53).

If you can't gain one yard in that situation, how do you expect to have any running game at all?

I've seen many teams in the NFL run the ball from this formation against this D-lineups all the time.
There's nothing particular about it.

Double Barrel
10-18-2011, 12:06 PM
Tom Brady or Peyton Manning takes advantage of that situation.

Trent Dilf...errr...Matt Schaub, not so much. Our QB is an extension of our HC.

All hail Wade! His defense is truly our only hope in 2011.

Vinny
10-18-2011, 12:07 PM
You don't think having 6 to block 5 is an advantage to the offense?

We have the C, 2 guards, the RT, a TE and the FB to block 3 D-linemen, the SAM (#95) and the WILL (#53).

If you can't gain one yard in that situation, how do you expect to have any running game at all?

I've seen many teams in the NFL run the ball from this formation against this D-lineups all the time.
There's nothing particular about it.every defender the Ratbirds had was in the box outside of the guy playing ten yards off Walter. That is 6 blocking 10

Vinny
10-18-2011, 12:08 PM
Tom Brady or Peyton Manning takes advantage of that situation.

Trent Dilf...errr...Matt Schaub, not so much. Our QB is an extension of our HC.

All hail Wade! His defense is truly our only hope in 2011.

Matt Schaub = Gifford Neilson. Ol milkshake breath

Maddict5
10-18-2011, 12:12 PM
You don't think having 6 to block 5 is an advantage to the offense?

We have the C, 2 guards, the RT, a TE and the FB to block 3 D-linemen, the SAM (#95) and the WILL (#53).

If you can't gain one yard in that situation, how do you expect to have any running game at all?

I've seen many teams in the NFL run the ball from this formation against this D-lineups all the time.
There's nothing particular about it.

first of all, by the time arian gets the ball theres 6 ravens at the LOS (exc the LT & DE like you did)

second no its not as much of an advantage as throwing to a wide open wr... esp when those 5 ravens (by your count) weigh more than the 6 texans and are one of hardest teams to run on

76Texan
10-18-2011, 12:15 PM
look this is ridiculous. if schaub throws it to walter on a wr screen route i.e walter standing still, he can do a handstand and still get a first down.

and stop pretending like ed reed was trying to bait schaub because it wasnt even reed, it was f'n bernard pollard and he was looking at the cb and telling him to get over. theres no way he picks that off or stops a first down

that play is on both schaub and walter. thats not even coaching imo, its just professional common sense

There's a possibility either way.
Schaub gets the snaps and throws the quick out.
Pollard has 7 yards to cover (if Walter ran straight forward from his spot 2 yards behind the LOS - any horizontal motion by Walter gives Pollard the edge).

I like the run with more blockers than defenders better.

Too bad, Schaub doesn't have the total freedom to change it to a vertical route for Walter.
I'll take that one over anything else.

thunderkyss
10-18-2011, 12:21 PM
Steven who? What are you talking about?

Even Steven.

Somebody threw that out as a nickname for Kubiak... I liked it.

76Texan
10-18-2011, 12:26 PM
first of all, by the time arian gets the ball theres 6 ravens at the LOS (exc the LT & DE like you did)

second no its not as much of an advantage as throwing to a wide open wr... esp when those 5 ravens (by your count) weigh more than the 6 texans and are one of hardest teams to run on

No, we have blocking advantage on the play side.
Lewis had to check the cut back before he can commit to this side.
That's how we got a combo block Myers-Brisiel-Winston on Cody and Gnata.
Eventually, it was the double-team Brisiel-Winston that gave Foster the room.
We only need one yard; a little space was all we need for Foster.

And like I said, the Texans would have gained at least one yard if not for the face mask by Cody and/or the leg pull by Lewis on Myers.

panamamyers
10-18-2011, 12:26 PM
You are completely grasping at straws if you don't think Walter makes that first down easily.
That safety isn't even concerned with Walter He would take a false step or two before he even realized that Walter was getting the ball.

If Schaub doesn't get the ball deflected, and Walter does not drop it, it's an easy 4 or 5 yards.

Mr teX
10-18-2011, 12:28 PM
johnson gets blocked straight away by dreessen. that wouldve still happened if schaub had thrown it because the other 9 guys wouldve still thought it was a run play if schaub and walter had shown enough awareness


Dude, in those types of situations (4th & inches & 1) DE's are taught to seal edges so as to turn the rb inside & look for those types of passes to bat down.... The other 9 guys are irrelevant to this particular play. Dreesen being in front of johnson is also irrelevant b/c all Johnson has to do is take 1 step forward & jump up.

Secondly, for schaub to get that pass out as fast as he needs to, He cannot step far off the LOS. basically all he can do is raise up from under center & throw the ball.... 1 step back & release at the most.... & that's with a quick release.....which schaub does not have. if it takes any longer than that it will not work.

76Texan
10-18-2011, 12:37 PM
There's a possibility either way.
Schaub gets the snaps and throws the quick out.
Pollard has 7 yards to cover (if Walter ran straight forward from his spot 2 yards behind the LOS - any horizontal motion by Walter gives Pollard the edge).

I like the run with more blockers than defenders better.

Too bad, Schaub doesn't have the total freedom to change it to a vertical route for Walter.
I'll take that one over anything else.

1. If Walter stopped to wait for the ball, he will receive a big hit from Pollard.

2. If Walter goes upfield a little further, Pollard has less dstance to cover.

Between the time the ball was snapped, Schaub taking the ball, threw it.
When the ball arrived into Walter's hand, you just got to know that Pollard will be all over it. There's a good possibility that Walter can hang onto the ball, but there's also definitely a big hit coming from Pollard.

Personally, I don't think I want to play into Pollard's strength.
I'd rather have a long pass to force Pollard to run with Walter if we chose to pass.

DexmanC
10-18-2011, 12:38 PM
"[Y]ou’re not going to go very far in this league if you can’t line up and make a yard."
~ Gary Kubiak

:kubepalm:

Gary would know. He hasn't made it in this league in six years.

drunkcookie
10-18-2011, 12:43 PM
Personally, I don't think I want to play into Pollard's strength.
I'd rather have a long pass to force Pollard to run with Walter if we chose to pass.

I can agree with that...

EVOLVIST
10-18-2011, 12:52 PM
Too bad, Schaub doesn't have the total freedom to change it to a vertical route for Walter.
I'll take that one over anything else.

Schaub didn't have the freedom to do anything but run the play given to him on that 4th and 1. This thread is full of fantastic football talk, but it's all moot.

Schaub was asked on SR610 yesterday, point blank, if he could have audibled on that play. Schaub's answer was a straight up, "No." No option for Walter. None of that.

For those of you (I love you all), who still thinks that Schaub has been granted a scintilla of power from Kubes to be the general on the field, here's just another example to the contrary.

Go have a listen. I'm sure the link is up on the SR610 site. I can't be arsed to look it up.