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View Full Version : It's Personal: Rick Smith vs Vonta Leach


thunderkyss
10-16-2011, 05:54 AM
This (http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Ex-Texan-Vonta-Leach-happy-with-Ravens-2220822.php) makes me sick..

I haven't really seen any of the "ex-player" comments about our F.O. & the ones I've seen I think can generally be taken a couple of different ways. But this is Vonta & he's saying what I felt.. that he wanted to be here. I always felt Vonta knew he was a big part of what was built here & wanted to see the pay off...... he got to the Pro Bowl as a Houston Texans & I thought that meant something to him. Then I read this.......

http://www.chron.com/mediaManager/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=1674294&width=628&height=471

"When I was there, I laid it all on the line for Houston, whether I was hurt or not. During my time there, they paid a lot of players I felt didn't necessarily deserve to get paid. What disappointed me was when it was time for me, maybe my last contract, to get a good deal ... I didn't have to be the highest-paid fullback.

"The deal that was offered to me was disrespectful to me and my family," he said. "It was a lesser deal than I just got finished playing for them for."

"I wanted to stay with the Texans. When I heard the offer, I picked up the phone and called (Texans general manager) Rick Smith myself.

"I said, 'Rick, what's going on?' He said, 'Vonta, we had to give away all of our money. We don't have any more.' I said thanks, and that was it."

I'm very disappointed.

Lucky
10-16-2011, 06:01 AM
"I said, 'Rick, what's going on?' He said, 'Vonta, we had to give away all of our money. We don't have any more.' I said thanks, and that was it."
I'm not a fan of Rick Smith, but what he said was basically true. The Texans didn't have the cap room to sign Vonta. That opened the door for Casey, who has played well. No money, and perhaps a better player for replacement? I don't see that as personal. That's just how the NFL works.

Wolf6151
10-16-2011, 06:06 AM
Reading Vonta's comments, this sounds about right. I've read several times that Rick Smith is a first class a-hole to deal with in negotiations and that once he makes up his mind there's no changing it regardless if he's right or not. I agree with Vonta's statement about paying alot of players that didn't necessarily deserve it, we've spent alot of money in the wrong places. IMO.

srrono
10-16-2011, 06:24 AM
Leach I think is talking out his ass I remeber seeing him saying he wanted to be the highest paid FB in the league.

steelbtexan
10-16-2011, 06:25 AM
Rick Smith is not very good at his job.

This is just another example. I agree some players have been way over paid. The Jacoby Jones re-signing should be grounds for termination alone.

TheMatrix31
10-16-2011, 06:26 AM
If Vonta really wanted to stay in Houston so badly, he would have understood the financial situation and taken whatever we could have offered. He would have realize we had to pour all the money we had on defense. Sorry, Vonta, but whatever bro.

hradhak
10-16-2011, 07:41 AM
I wanted him to stay here too, but when they announced Casey as the starter I was suprised. Now I see the possibilities. Casey's an upgrade at a cheaper price. Leach can only block, he'll never have a 100+ receiving game. I dunno if Rick Smith is an a hole when it comes to negotiations, but we as a team made the right decision.

ArlingtonTexan
10-16-2011, 08:08 AM
Reading Vonta's comments, this sounds about right. I've read several times that Rick Smith is a first class a-hole to deal with in negotiations and that once he makes up his mind there's no changing it regardless if he's right or not. I agree with Vonta's statement about paying alot of players that didn't necessarily deserve it, we've spent alot of money in the wrong places. IMO.

I am not sure that Rick Smith is really that good at talent evaluation and knowing who to pay, but the place I want a first class jerk is at GM. negoitiations are not for the wishy-washy, and placing a monetary figure on a dude worth and telling him that number is not for the faint of heart

steelbtexan
10-16-2011, 08:21 AM
I am not sure that Rick Smith is really that good at talent evaluation and knowing who to pay, but the place I want a first class jerk is at GM. negoitiations are not for the wishy-washy, and placing a monetary figure on a dude worth and telling him that number is not for the faint of heart

I agree about the GM jerk thing. But if you burn bridges with agents/players it will bite you in the butt.

It's not really that hard to tell a dude what he's worth.

BTW, I was for letting Leach walk.

amazing80
10-16-2011, 08:30 AM
I am not sure that Rick Smith is really that good at talent evaluation and knowing who to pay, but the place I want a first class jerk is at GM. negoitiations are not for the wishy-washy, and placing a monetary figure on a dude worth and telling him that number is not for the faint of heart

Man that would be hard.

Sorry Vonta, but as well as you block, you were that bad in the pass game. It worked out well for both of us. Good luck and hopefully Cushing and Ryans destroys you this week!

fiasco west
10-16-2011, 08:30 AM
If Vonta really wanted to stay in Houston so badly, he would have understood the financial situation and taken whatever we could have offered. He would have realize we had to pour all the money we had on defense. Sorry, Vonta, but whatever bro.

I agree. I love Leach as a player and probably always will but I remember this guy talking about leaving and not being wanted DURING the lockout as if we could do anything about it then.

Methinks that his agent got in his ear and talked him into this bigger contract. Convincing him that Smith was lying and that the Texans don't want him. I think the Texans WANTED Leach sure but when it came to signing Joseph and Manning and resigning some guys then it just couldn't happen.

I guess looking back at it though Jacoby should have been let go...but still I would have spent that money on another WR and not Leach. Nothing against Leach though but he's still just a FB.

SheTexan
10-16-2011, 08:45 AM
The only thing that would remotely make me OK with a loss today is the fact that Vonta would get the last laugh!! YEP, I'm a huge Vonte fan and felt the TEXANS made a big mistake in letting him go. STUPID thing to do, and today they just might pay the price for such a dumb decision! James Casey has been one of my fav players since he was drafted, but, GUESS WHAT, he's injured!! What's new there?? Vonte gave us 100% all the time, played hurt, and loved being a TEXAN! The man deserved a good contract, Jacoby Jones DID NOT! SOOOO, I think Vonte nailed it when he made that statement. I miss him every Sunday, Pollard too, and today that "kickass" attitude just might be the reason for ANOTHER Texan loss!!

drunkcookie
10-16-2011, 08:57 AM
The only thing that would remotely make me OK with a loss today is the fact that Vonta would get the last laugh!! YEP, I'm a huge Vonte fan and felt the TEXANS made a big mistake in letting him go. STUPID thing to do, and today they just might pay the price for such a dumb decision! James Casey has been one of my fav players since he was drafted, but, GUESS WHAT, he's injured!! What's new there?? Vonte gave us 100% all the time, played hurt, and loved being a TEXAN! The man deserved a good contract, Jacoby Jones DID NOT! SOOOO, I think Vonte nailed it when he made that statement. I miss him every Sunday, Pollard too, and today that "kickass" attitude just might be the reason for ANOTHER Texan loss!!

I can agree about Jacoby Jones, but the part in bold I cannot... He wanted too much for a fullback...

I loved Leach here as well, and was sad to see him go, but we needed the money he was demanding for parts elsewhere...

Rey
10-16-2011, 08:57 AM
Cushing is going to blow his ass up today.

I don't miss vonta but I have nothing against him except he's the enemy.

All this contract stuff is just business.

Thorn
10-16-2011, 09:01 AM
meh.....it's the era of free agency and has been for a while. We should be used to this sort of stuff by now.

HJam72
10-16-2011, 09:06 AM
He's right that we needed him more than Jacoby Jones, but we need(ed) J. Joseph, D. Manning, and a receiver-that-actually-succeeds more than either of them. He might also think he was more important to us than somebody like Owen Daniels, but that's where he's just flat out wrong...

gtexan02
10-16-2011, 09:21 AM
Our offense was better last year.

Maybe thats injuries, maybe thats scheme, maybe thats Leach.

We could score in the red zone. We can't anymore. He's the main thing thats changed.

I thought Casey was an upgrade when I watched him between the 20s.

Hervoyel
10-16-2011, 09:26 AM
The thing is, when you let Vonta go you let some of your toughness walk out the door. You let some of your edge go. If you want to contend for a championship that isn't how you go about getting there.

That happened so we could retain the services of a genuinely worthless player like Jacoby Jones if this report is to be believed. Too often the Texans have spent what they had available to keep or acquire the wrong guys. For years Rick Smith has seemingly thrown money to guys (ours and free agents) at random. McNair never calls him on it. I don't understand it. Look how long we dicked around with Ahman Green. Better options were out there at a fraction of the cost but we kept paying this over the hill veteran to sit on his ass and rehab. That's just one example but any of us could come up with more. The Texans have been foolish when it comes to paying and not paying players.

Leach should still be a Texan right now. Jacoby Jones should be at practice with his Arena team. It wasn't a choice between Leach and Casey. The fact that Vickers is on this team right now tells us that. They aren't mutually exclusive.

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2011, 09:27 AM
The only thing that would remotely make me OK with a loss today is the fact that Vonta would get the last laugh!! YEP, I'm a huge Vonte fan and felt the TEXANS made a big mistake in letting him go. STUPID thing to do, and today they just might pay the price for such a dumb decision! James Casey has been one of my fav players since he was drafted, but, GUESS WHAT, he's injured!! What's new there?? Vonte gave us 100% all the time, played hurt, and loved being a TEXAN! The man deserved a good contract, Jacoby Jones DID NOT! SOOOO, I think Vonte nailed it when he made that statement. I miss him every Sunday, Pollard too, and today that "kickass" attitude just might be the reason for ANOTHER Texan loss!!

THIS^^^^ He was probably our most durable player in the most repeatedly trauma-exposed position. He certainly wasn't anything close to a wide receiver, but he had soft enough hands when called upon as a safety outlet........AND the Red Sea showed a tendency to part in his presence..........the same Red Sea into which Jacoby Jones and his money has disappeared, never to be seen again.



I can agree about Jacoby Jones, but the part in bold I cannot... He wanted too much for a fullback...

I loved Leach here as well, and was sad to see him go, but we needed the money he was demanding for parts elsewhere...

Knowing Vonta, I will put the "highest paid FB" thing in the mouth of his agent. Which are you apt to believe...........an insistance that "I want to be the highest paid FB" coming from Leach (when it finally came down to negotiations) or ""The deal that was offered to me was disrespectful to me and my family. It was a lesser deal than I just got finished playing for them for." (FYI, from 2006 to 2010, Vonta's salary escalated from ~$750,000 to 1,900,000)?????????............................... I'll pick what's behind door #2.

Jacoby Jones was given a 3-year contract worth $10.5 million, with $3.5 million guaranteed. Vonta signed a 3-year contract with the Ravens worth 11 million, with 6 million guaranteed.

amazing80
10-16-2011, 09:46 AM
The thing is, when you let Vonta go you let some of your toughness walk out the door. You let some of your edge go. If you want to contend for a championship that isn't how you go about getting there.

That happened so we could retain the services of a genuinely worthless player like Jacoby Jones if this report is to be believed. Too often the Texans have spent what they had available to keep or acquire the wrong guys. For years Rick Smith has seemingly thrown money to guys (ours and free agents) at random. McNair never calls him on it. I don't understand it. Look how long we dicked around with Ahman Green. Better options were out there at a fraction of the cost but we kept paying this over the hill veteran to sit on his ass and rehab. That's just one example but any of us could come up with more. The Texans have been foolish when it comes to paying and not paying players.

Leach should still be a Texan right now. Jacoby Jones should be at practice with his Arena team. It wasn't a choice between Leach and Casey. The fact that Vickers is on this team right now tells us that. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Everyone is already complaining about our wide outs, had we skipped signing Jones and opted to pay Leach, our wr's would actually be worse right now. They actually did the best thing this time and let him walk. Its a business with a strict salary. We could not afford to pay him what he obviously wanted. Tough break, but welcome to the NFL

htowntexans1985
10-16-2011, 09:46 AM
Destroy Leach!!!! :crutch:

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2011, 09:54 AM
Everyone is already complaining about our wide outs, had we skipped signing Jones and opted to pay Leach, our wr's would actually be worse right now. They actually did the best thing this time and let him walk. Its a business with a strict salary. We could not afford to pay him what he obviously wanted. Tough break, but welcome to the NFL

Anyone that had watched the Texans KNEW what they had in Jacoby and KNEW what they had in Leach...................and today, they are both what we KNEW they were.

thunderkyss
10-16-2011, 09:56 AM
I agree about the GM jerk thing. But if you burn bridges with agents/players it will bite you in the butt.

It's not really that hard to tell a dude what he's worth.

BTW, I was for letting Leach walk.

This is really my only complaint. I have no problem letting leach walk. Finding a FB to replace him wasn't all that difficult. My problem is not talking to him like a man, like a Texans. When he called Rick Smith, the agent is out of the picture, Smith should have laid his cards on the table.

"Vonta, we love you, we appreciate everything you've done for the franchise, but you do not fit the direction we envision for the position. What we are offering you does not reflect how we feel about you as a person, or a player. It is what we are willing to pay for the role we have available behind James Casey."

I have no clue how the conversation actually went down, but from Vonta's report, he was flat out disrespected in a situation that it wasn't called for.

amazing80
10-16-2011, 10:01 AM
Anyone that had watched the Texans KNEW what they had in Jacoby and KNEW what they had in Leach...................and today, they are both what we KNEW they were.

That still doesn't negate the fact that the drop off between Leach and Casey was better than the drop from Jones to Anderson or a rookie. Jones is inconsistent but can make a nice play. Leach was a good blocker but terrible out of the backfield. When he was in we ran majority of the time. At least with Casey we have options and can hide our play calls better. Not to mention between the 20s, Foster is better in a one back set. I think we miss Leach the most near the goal line. But a lot of that can be blamed to AF being out and just getting his groove back. I think this is one instance where the front office did the right thing, a tough choice no doubt, but it had to be done. Life goes on, super bowls are not won because of your full back, they're just not.

drunkcookie
10-16-2011, 10:06 AM
Knowing Vonta, I will put the "highest paid FB" thing in the mouth of his agent. Which are you apt to believe...........an insistance that "I want to be the highest paid FB" coming from Leach (when it finally came down to negotiations) or ""The deal that was offered to me was disrespectful to me and my family. It was a lesser deal than I just got finished playing for them for." (FYI, from 2006 to 2010, Vonta's salary escalated from ~$750,000 to 1,900,000)?????????............................... I'll pick what's behind door #2.

Jacoby Jones was given a 3-year contract worth $10.5 million, with $3.5 million guaranteed. Vonta signed a 3-year contract with the Ravens worth 11 million, with 6 million guaranteed.

Well, I didn't say "highest paid FB", I said "too much for a FB"... and I don't even mean a hell of a lot honestly, just too much for what the Texans wanted to pay for that position when they had other spots to fill...

As for what Jones makes in comparison to what Leach makes doesn't matter to me... Personally I feel it was time for Jacoby to go, but with that said I would have wanted the money in his $10.5 mil deal spent on a better receiver to replace him, and not on Leach...

NitroGSXR
10-16-2011, 10:07 AM
This is really my only complaint. I have no problem letting leach walk. Finding a FB to replace him wasn't all that difficult. My problem is not talking to him like a man, like a Texans. When he called Rick Smith, the agent is out of the picture, Smith should have laid his cards on the table.

"Vonta, we love you, we appreciate everything you've done for the franchise, but you do not fit the direction we envision for the position. What we are offering you does not reflect how we feel about you as a person, or a player. It is what we are willing to pay for the role we have available behind James Casey."

I have no clue how the conversation actually went down, but from Vonta's report, he was flat out disrespected in a situation that it wasn't called for.

And he is disrespecting the Ravens by essentially saying that he would rather be a Houston Texan. I'm behind Leach 100% and agree with him. He's got a big mouth though. I'd shut up if I were him.

thunderkyss
10-16-2011, 10:16 AM
Anyone that had watched the Texans KNEW what they had in Jacoby and KNEW what they had in Leach...................and today, they are both what we KNEW they were.

This needs to stop.

Can any body produce a list of WRs making $3 million a year?

Here (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2011&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=16) are the Free Agent Wide Receivers for 2011

Lance Moore (http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2011/08/lance_moores_deal_with_new_orl.html) got a $3 million bonus plus a $2 million base salary $20mil/4 years, he's got an average cap number of $5 million

Steve Breaston (http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/4261/steve-breaston) $25 mill/5 years another $5 million/year deal

$3 million isn't going to get you Calvin Johnson like some of you think, It's going to get you Legadu Naanee or Jacoby Jones.

TexCanada
10-16-2011, 10:20 AM
The Vonta vs Jacoby rants just don't work. We needed a WR, regardless of whether or not we signed a FB. We may have made the wrong choice with Jacoby, but somebody was going to be filling that spot and taking up that salary no matter what.

I think we are better, and much deeper, at FB this year anyway.

amazing80
10-16-2011, 10:23 AM
This needs to stop.

Can any body produce a list of WRs making $3 million a year?

Here (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2011&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=16) are the Free Agent Wide Receivers for 2011

Lance Moore (http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2011/08/lance_moores_deal_with_new_orl.html) got a $3 million bonus plus a $2 million base salary $20mil/4 years, he's got an average cap number of $5 million

Steve Breaston (http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/4261/steve-breaston) $25 mill/5 years another $5 million/year deal

$3 million isn't going to get you Calvin Johnson like some of you think, It's going to get you Legadu Naanee or Jacoby Jones.

DING DING DING DING DING!!! We have a winner. We needed a number 2/3 receiver and we got one. Just one most of us had enough of. We were never going to get anything better with the money we spent, but we HAD TO SPEND it. Even if it was not on Jones, we had to let Leach go in order to get a receiver. I can't believe we're actually discussing a full back like this. He wasn't THAT important folks. We didn't win shit with him.

NitroGSXR
10-16-2011, 10:23 AM
The Vonta vs Jacoby rants just don't work. We needed a WR, regardless of whether or not we signed a FB. We may have made the wrong choice with Jacoby, but somebody was going to be filling that spot and taking up that salary no matter what.

I think we are better, and much deeper, at FB this year anyway.

Yeah. Vickers made a great catch last week. Oh wait...

amazing80
10-16-2011, 10:24 AM
Yeah. Vickers made a great catch last week. Oh wait...

If it was Casey you'd be singing a different tune. The guy was injured, not his fault. Vickers is the exact mold as Leach, neither one are gonna make that play.

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2011, 10:27 AM
This needs to stop.

Can any body produce a list of WRs making $3 million a year?

Here (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2011&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&pid=16) are the Free Agent Wide Receivers for 2011

Lance Moore (http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2011/08/lance_moores_deal_with_new_orl.html) got a $3 million bonus plus a $2 million base salary $20mil/4 years, he's got an average cap number of $5 million

Steve Breaston (http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/4261/steve-breaston) $25 mill/5 years another $5 million/year deal

$3 million isn't going to get you Calvin Johnson like some of you think, It's going to get you Legadu Naanee or Jacoby Jones.

Like I said, we KNEW what we had. His performance thus far this year doesn't justify $3.5 million...........not even $350,0000. But because we didn't act on what we KNEW right from the beginning and were so bent on his advantage of knowing "the system," we didn't give serious thought to any other possible options.

amazing80
10-16-2011, 10:28 AM
Like I said, we KNEW what we had. His performance thus far this year doesn't justify $3.5 million...........not even $350,0000. But because we didn't act on what we KNEW right from the beginning and were so bent on his advantage of knowing "the system," we didn't give serious thought to any other possible options.

So you're saying your ok with letting Leach go, just not spending the money on Jones? You would rather have a different wide out? I can get down with this....

Scooter
10-16-2011, 10:29 AM
If it was Casey you'd be singing a different tune. The guy was injured, not his fault. Vickers is the exact mold as Leach, neither one are gonna make that play.

leach always made that play.

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2011, 10:32 AM
If it was Casey you'd be singing a different tune. The guy was injured, not his fault. Vickers is the exact mold as Leach, neither one are gonna make that play.

A pass right in the "bread basket"?????? Your statement regarding Leach is dogmatic and entirely unfounded.

TexCanada
10-16-2011, 10:32 AM
Yeah. Vickers made a great catch last week. Oh wait...

Nice. So the guys whole career is based on that play? The majority of us on this board were extremely excited with the Vickers signing when we looked into his style of play with Cleveland. The dude is a hammer, and he comes cheaper then Vonta. Casey is a much bigger threat for this offense then Vonta. Better and deeper.

amazing80
10-16-2011, 10:35 AM
A pass right in the "bread basket"?????? Your statement regarding Leach is dogmatic and entirely unfounded.

Come on, he could catch, but lets not pretend like he was AF out there. He would catch one and would drop one. Even if he catches it, he is as slow as Matt and never had YAC. Im ok with liking him, but lets not put him higher on a pedestal than he deserves.

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2011, 10:36 AM
So you're saying your ok with letting Leach go, just not spending the money on Jones? You would rather have a different wide out? I can get down with this....

I was not OK with the Leach release. Creative financing could have kept a proven valuable player.

It wasn't "spending" money on Jacoby that I am not OK with. It is "throwing away" money on Jacoby that I have a problem with.

amazing80
10-16-2011, 10:40 AM
I was not OK with the Leach release. Creative financing could have kept a proven valuable player.

It wasn't "spending" money on Jacoby that I am not OK with. It is "throwing away" money on Jacoby that I have a problem with.

I think we are saying the same thing, but you're saying it much more intelligent than I am :handshake:

conundrum
10-16-2011, 10:42 AM
Our offense was better last year.

Maybe thats injuries, maybe thats scheme, maybe thats Leach.

We could score in the red zone. We can't anymore. He's the main thing thats changed.

I thought Casey was an upgrade when I watched him between the 20s.

That's all do with Andre and foster playing a whopping total of complete quarters together.

Leach was great when he was here, but it's a business. It's something he can use for motivation today, good for him.

thunderkyss
10-16-2011, 10:43 AM
Like I said, we KNEW what we had. His performance thus far this year doesn't justify $3.5 million...........not even $350,0000. But because we didn't act on what we KNEW right from the beginning and were so bent on his advantage of knowing "the system," we didn't give serious thought to any other possible options.

So what were those other options?

I think we handled that situation as best we could. Had we known that Wade was going to be able to get this defense turned around (at least appearing to) this quick, we probably would have done something other than Brooks Reed with that second pick... or at least Brandon Harris with our second 2nd...

Had they known Mario was going to get hurt so early in the season, maybe they would have lowballed him in the offseason to free up some money to get a WR.

But with what we knew & what we had to work with.... three players had to restructure their deal to get us under the cap.... Resigning Jacoby to what is probably the avg minimum for a veteran WR & picking up the plethora of young WRs who all got hurt or cut made sense.

Now we've got Derrick Mason & Jacoby will fall to where he belongs. 3/4 & he'll fill that role as well as he always has, which is fine. It's what he is.

NitroGSXR
10-16-2011, 10:45 AM
Nice. So the guys whole career is based on that play? The majority of us on this board were extremely excited with the Vickers signing when we looked into his style of play with Cleveland. The dude is a hammer, and he comes cheaper then Vonta. Casey is a much bigger threat for this offense then Vonta. Better and deeper.

He has earned nothing being a Houston Texan yet. Simply put, that drop derailed our momentum... if not cost us the game. He failed to come through in the clutch. I'm not saying bench Vickers or anything but he's no Leach. I mean... he can't even beat out Casey for the starting FB position.

gary
10-16-2011, 10:47 AM
They should have cut Jones and a few players who they knew probably were not going to make the team anyway and just kept Leach.

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2011, 10:48 AM
Nice. So the guys whole career is based on that play? The majority of us on this board were extremely excited with the Vickers signing when we looked into his style of play with Cleveland. The dude is a hammer, and he comes cheaper then Vonta. Casey is a much bigger threat for this offense then Vonta. Better and deeper.

How often do you think that people have thought about Vickers this season and "oohed and aahed" about how much he has contributed to this offense. Then think back about how often people "oohed and aahed" about Vonta's demolitions.

thunderkyss
10-16-2011, 10:49 AM
A pass right in the "bread basket"?????? Your statement regarding Leach is dogmatic and entirely unfounded.

I understand you're a doctor & all, & I probably shouldn't be contesting you on the human anatomy, but I don't remember the "breadbasket" being located high & behind a person.

Not even a fullback
:kitten:

TexCanada
10-16-2011, 10:51 AM
He has earned nothing being a Houston Texan yet. Simply put, that drop derailed our momentum... if not cost us the game. He failed to come through in the clutch. I'm not saying bench Vickers or anything but he's no Leach. I mean... he can't even beat out Casey for the starting FB position.

And Leach was deemed expendable because of Casey. Leach wouldn't have seen the field as much as he did last year because of Casey's progression, so giving him a raise would not have been smart. I am a big fan of Leach and the way he plays the game, but there is no way we could have matched that salary he is getting now.

thunderkyss
10-16-2011, 10:53 AM
They should have cut Jones and a few players who they knew probably were not going to make the team anyway and just kept Leach.

This makes more sense.... Steve Slaton for one.. even when we were down to two running backs, they didn't put SS on the field. That's $2mil right there

But we were still going to need receivers & they don't come cheap, not even the bad ones.

SheTexan
10-16-2011, 10:57 AM
I was not OK with the Leach release. Creative financing could have kept a proven valuable player.

It wasn't "spending" money on Jacoby that I am not OK with. It is "throwing away" money on Jacoby that I have a problem with.

Exactly!!

Of course we will NEVER know, BUT, IMHO, Vonte would NEVER have dropped that pass last Sunday! Vonte stays focused, intent on making a play, and doing whatever it takes to get it done! You guys can rag on him all you want, but, our O is NOT better without him! I adore JC, but, he's injury prone, and unless Vickers steps up TODAY, we are screwed for sure! I believe the Ravens will blow our RBs out of Baltimore. Hope our Texans have something cute and crafty to show with Mason on board, and we better pray to the football gawds above that another key player does not get hurt. I'm just hoping we get out of Baltimore with our team intact!!

I already have butterflies floating in my tummy just thinking about what this game might bring to our Texans. I'm sceeeearrrrrred!!! :woot2

gary
10-16-2011, 10:59 AM
This makes more sense.... Steve Slaton for one.. even when we were down to two running backs, they didn't put SS on the field. That's $2mil right there

But we were still going to need receivers & they don't come cheap, not even the bad ones.Sign an UDFA or move someone up from the PS. Or trade later on for a vet like they have done with Mason.

thunderkyss
10-16-2011, 11:10 AM
Sign an UDFA or move someone up from the PS. Or trade later on for a vet like they have done with Mason.

I think we've done all that.... the UDFA's didn't make it through training camp. Jacoby was the last man standing.

eriadoc
10-16-2011, 11:11 AM
If Vonta really wanted to stay in Houston so badly, he would have understood the financial situation and taken whatever we could have offered. He would have realize we had to pour all the money we had on defense. Sorry, Vonta, but whatever bro.

So you think he should have taken a pay cut after an All-Pro season?

"The deal that was offered to me was disrespectful to me and my family," he said. "It was a lesser deal than I just got finished playing for them for."

TheMatrix31
10-16-2011, 11:20 AM
If he wants to be a Texan still, then yeah. He's not dumb enough to not know that we needed to spend a ton of money on other spots. You wannna say we shouldn't have paid Jacoby. Fine. I definitely agree. But if I'm in a very comfortable spot for myself and my family, then I'd take less.

Then there's the issue of being a professional. He's a Raven now. You don't talk shit about your previous employer no matter what the perceived deal was. That's classless.

I know it's not realistic for him to take less so I understand why he walked and I dont blame him like. I'd kill to still have him as a player. But if he wants money then he has to go elsewhere

eriadoc
10-16-2011, 11:23 AM
If he wants to be a Texan still, then yeah. He's not dumb enough to not know that we needed to spend a ton of money on other spots. You wannna say we shouldn't have paid Jacoby. Fine. I definitely agree. But if I'm in a very comfortable spot for myself and my family, then I'd take less.

Then there's the issue of being a professional. He's a Raven now. You don't talk shit about your previous employer no matter what the perceived deal was. That's classless.

I think Rick Smith elicits a lot more of that than we see with other GMs. When any given player "talks shit" (which I don't think Leach was doing), then yeah, that's classless. When multiple players do it, maybe it's time to stop pointing to the players.

gary
10-16-2011, 11:29 AM
I am sure we will see today which team needs Vonte more than the other.

hradhak
10-16-2011, 11:31 AM
Anyone know if Casey is playing or is he still day to day? It'll be good to compare the two

TheMatrix31
10-16-2011, 11:42 AM
I think Rick Smith elicits a lot more of that than we see with other GMs. When any given player "talks shit" (which I don't think Leach was doing), then yeah, that's classless. When multiple players do it, maybe it's time to stop pointing to the players.

Meh. Just another thing for everyone to blame on management.

eriadoc
10-16-2011, 11:47 AM
Meh. Just another thing for everyone to blame on management.

Or, you know, pattern recognition.

NitroGSXR
10-16-2011, 11:48 AM
And Leach was deemed expendable because of Casey. Leach wouldn't have seen the field as much as he did last year because of Casey's progression, so giving him a raise would not have been smart. I am a big fan of Leach and the way he plays the game, but there is no way we could have matched that salary he is getting now.

He was deemed expendable because he earned himself a Pro Bowl contract and we didn't have/want to pay that.

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2011, 11:52 AM
I understand you're a doctor & all, & I probably shouldn't be contesting you on the human anatomy, but I don't remember the "breadbasket" being located high & behind a person.

Not even a fullback
:kitten:

I flunked "kidneys" and "breadbasket" in medschool. So I just fake it once in a while. LOL..

TimeKiller
10-16-2011, 11:54 AM
OH.
MY.
GOD.

Look at you "Texans" fans taking up for the enemy. If you believe any of that I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you for a nominal price. Good grief...

Kthx
10-16-2011, 11:54 AM
Vonta's problem was that he didn't write that he wanted more money on his shoes, that would have solved everything.

eriadoc
10-16-2011, 11:56 AM
OH.
MY.
GOD.

Look at you "Texans" fans taking up for the enemy. If you believe any of that I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you for a nominal price. Good grief...

Part of the problem with this team is that quite a few of us view Rick Smith as the enemy. As do some players. He has been labeled "dishonest" by more than a few players.

TimeKiller
10-16-2011, 12:21 PM
Part of the problem with this team is that quite a few of us view Rick Smith as the enemy. As do some players. He has been labeled "dishonest" by more than a few players.

Well, he GM's for "your team" so if that's all you have to knock him with....it's your hang up. It's the player's hang up.

He's the GM. And we don't live in contract hell. Awful, isn't it?

WHO has a problem with him again? Aaron Schobel? Ahman Green? And Vonta "I wanted money, except when it comes to looking bad about it" Leach? I'm pretty sure the players that ACTUALLY MATTER like AJ, Joseph, Manning, Demeco, OD.............don't mind him. But I guess they didn't DESERVE to get paid, right VL?

So players and agents don't roll over our GM. What an asshole. THAT'S our enemy right?

I'm tired of this discussion. This discussion is tired. Vonta Leach wanted :money: and got it. In Baltimore. I'm gonna try to put the fire on my head out now.

thunderkyss
10-16-2011, 12:25 PM
He's the GM. And we don't live in contract hell. Awful, isn't it?


We're bumping the salary cap with a pro bowl WR, pro bowl QB, pro bowl TE & FA fodder (not includding Arian)...

Once this team blows up & we have to make some "real" tough decisions, how confident are you that he's going to be able to keep the core together?

TimeKiller
10-16-2011, 12:29 PM
We're bumping the salary cap with a pro bowl WR, pro bowl QB, & FA fodder (not includding Arian)...

Once this team blows up & we have to make some "real" tough decisions, how confident are you that he's going to be able to keep the core together?

So now we're gonna rip him for things that haven't happened yet?


Damnit, this fire on my head!!!! GO OUT!!!!


Come on man. We also have a probowl TE. A probowl DE. Probowl MLBers. Just signed a probowl CB. I swear he even made it rain last weekend......

rush2112mn
10-16-2011, 12:32 PM
The only thing that would remotely make me OK with a loss today is the fact that Vonta would get the last laugh!! YEP, I'm a huge Vonte fan and felt the TEXANS made a big mistake in letting him go. STUPID thing to do, and today they just might pay the price for such a dumb decision! James Casey has been one of my fav players since he was drafted, but, GUESS WHAT, he's injured!! What's new there?? Vonte gave us 100% all the time, played hurt, and loved being a TEXAN! The man deserved a good contract, Jacoby Jones DID NOT! SOOOO, I think Vonte nailed it when he made that statement. I miss him every Sunday, Pollard too, and today that "kickass" attitude just might be the reason for ANOTHER Texan loss!!

I disagree.......because we either get Manning and Joseph or Vanta Leech......which one do you want.....i take Manning and Joseph myself......
we needed defensive help....
you cant sign everyone......
Vanta should remember its a numbers business.....sorry....but players are not going to stay on the same team their whole career except for someone like Andre Johnson....
If I were Rick Smith I would have done the same thing.....

Leach should be thanking Andre Johnson....he is the one who got him in the probowl.......remember the "lets get leach to the beach" tshirts...?

Why is Vanta feeling dissprected by what Rick Smith did....hell...he should be happy....he is on a playoff team...and got a big contract for millions of dollars.....:
what a joke.......crying over spilled milk....waaaaaaaaaaaaaa:spit:
Cmon man....

thunderkyss
10-16-2011, 12:36 PM
So now we're gonna rip him for things that haven't happened yet?


Damnit, this fire on my head!!!! GO OUT!!!!


Come on man. We also have a probowl TE. A probowl DE. Probowl MLBers. Just signed a probowl CB. I swear he even made it rain last weekend......

Actually, I wrote that starting with Pro bowl WR.

Then I edited to add Pro Bowl QB

Then again Pro Bowl TE

Pretty much argued myself out of the argument but I don't know how we're going to pay that pro bowl RB.

Man, if we ever get talent on the offensive side of the ball, we're going to kill.

kiwitexansfan
10-16-2011, 12:38 PM
This whole thing for me comes down to would I rather have Joseph and Manning or Leach?

There was a reason we had no money for Leach.

steds
10-16-2011, 12:41 PM
Vonta's problem was that he didn't write that he wanted more money on his shoes, that would have solved everything.
Love it.

TimeKiller
10-16-2011, 12:45 PM
Actually, I wrote that starting with Pro bowl WR.

Then I edited to add Pro Bowl QB

Then again Pro Bowl TE

Pretty much argued myself out of the argument but I don't know how we're going to pay that pro bowl RB.

Man, if we ever get talent on the offensive side of the ball, we're going to kill.

Ahhhhh thanks for pouring that bucket on my head amigo! I don't know how they're going to get Mario AND Foster signed up but you know what? Rick Smith the negotiator hasn't bombed yet. Plus, there will be a few extra million laying around because they're not paying Leach!

I loved him while he was here too. Who doesn't like violence?!? But Leach made his money by being lucky enough to block for Foster. And now Ray Rice.

LOL y'all are making me look like a Smithiak defender hahaha...

TheMatrix31
10-16-2011, 01:16 PM
Like I give the slightest of ****s about what Ahman Green or Aaron Schoebel think.

texanhead08
10-16-2011, 01:47 PM
I seem to remember reading that Vonte only played 25% of the offensive snaps last year. If that number is correct he wasn't going to get highest paid in the league money I am sorry I don't care how good of a player he is.