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jtexas
10-12-2011, 01:33 PM
Texans promoted KR Trindon Holliday from their practice squad.
Holliday will immediately take over on kickoff returns, apparently replacing Danieal Manning. The pint-sized player will not contribute on offense.

Holliday will return punts and kickoffs, allowing receiver Jacoby Jonesand safety Danieal Manning to focus on their primary positions. Nading takes the roster spot of Mario Williams, who was placed on injured reserve with a torn pectoral muscle.
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Texans-trade-for-Mason-sign-Holliday-Nading/7fc3b276-5651-4b46-ba80-976e054058a9

drs23
10-12-2011, 01:35 PM
Texans promoted KR Trindon Holliday from their practice squad.
Holliday will immediately take over on kickoff returns, apparently replacing Danieal Manning. The pint-sized player will not contribute on offense.

Holliday was promoted from the same practice squad that he was cut from a couple of weeks ago.

How did they do that??

Texn4life
10-12-2011, 01:39 PM
Holliday was promoted from the same practice squad that he was cut from a couple of weeks ago.

How did they do that??

I was wondering the same thing! We're making some unprecedented moves now.

Allstar
10-12-2011, 01:41 PM
Wtf?

brakos82
10-12-2011, 01:41 PM
Maybe he can run straight ahead. :heh:

chicagotexan2
10-12-2011, 01:42 PM
Did Superman reverse the rotation of the Earth and we went back in time? ME so confused.

HOU-TEX
10-12-2011, 01:43 PM
Returning kicks again? When has he ever returned kicks to begin with?

IIRC, he fumbled the last time he had the opportunity in preseason a couple years ago

RTP2110
10-12-2011, 01:48 PM
Wow, this week's moves reek of the work of a man who knows his job is on the line.

TexCanada
10-12-2011, 01:50 PM
Huh? Is this for real?

tielahr
10-12-2011, 01:51 PM
Texans promoted KR Trindon Holliday from their practice squad.
Holliday will immediately take over on kickoff returns, apparently replacing Danieal Manning. The pint-sized player will not contribute on offense.

Source?

jtexas
10-12-2011, 01:51 PM
Returning kicks again? When has he ever returned kicks to begin with?

IIRC, he fumbled the last time he had the opportunity in preseason a couple years ago

He was given the starting role last year, then was injured.

valleytexfan
10-12-2011, 01:55 PM
Wow, guess it's true:

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Texans-trade-for-Mason-sign-Holliday-Nading/7fc3b276-5651-4b46-ba80-976e054058a9

Thorn
10-12-2011, 01:58 PM
Well, if nothing else, at least it's something different.

HOU-TEX
10-12-2011, 02:00 PM
He was given the starting role last year, then was injured.

In pre-season, maybe. Dude's never even been suited up for an NFL game

Hardcore Texan
10-12-2011, 02:05 PM
I actually like this move. Manning keeps running it out and can't even get it to the 20 yard line 90% of the time. I am screaming at the TV to just kneal the damn thing!

I hope Holliday can provide a spark, I can't wait to see what he will do.

TEXANS84
10-12-2011, 02:10 PM
Me thinks heads were rolled in Monday/Tuesday's meetings. WOW.

Texn4life
10-12-2011, 02:12 PM
Me thinks heads were rolled in Monday/Tuesday's meetings. WOW.

Ohh, to be a fly on that wall!!!!

Big Lou
10-12-2011, 02:18 PM
WTF is going on!?!?!?!

Hardcore Texan
10-12-2011, 02:20 PM
WTF is going on!?!?!?!

We signed Derrick Mason, brought up Nading from the PS, and Trindon Holliday has resurfaced and will return kicks.

badboy
10-12-2011, 02:21 PM
I actually like this move. Manning keeps running it out and can't even get it to the 20 yard line 90% of the time. I am screaming at the TV to just kneal the damn thing!
I hope Holliday can provide a spark, I can't wait to see what he will do.This. I want to see smart ball giving us first down at 20. Too many times the returner is stopped short or just as often we get a penalty (block in the back) and move backwards.

NitroGSXR
10-12-2011, 02:21 PM
I actually like this move. Manning keeps running it out and can't even get it to the 20 yard line 90% of the time. I am screaming at the TV to just kneal the damn thing!

I hope Holliday can provide a spark, I can't wait to see what he will do.

Manning has done well returning kicks. This has to be a more protective move than anything else. We have already lost Mario. I'm happy to see Holliday back. I am a big fan.

houstonspartan
10-12-2011, 02:23 PM
Me thinks heads were rolled in Monday/Tuesday's meetings. WOW.

I would have given my right arm to be in the Gary/Rick/McNair meeting.

From the moves they are making, I bet ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE.

Texas T
10-12-2011, 02:25 PM
Manning has done well returning kicks. This has to be a more protective move than anything else. We have already lost Mario. I'm happy to see Holliday back. I am a big fan.

I'm wondering if this is the precurser to having him do all returns-to include punts...

He's got the speed (plus some) of JJ and he would only be used for returns. Then release JJ for another real WR. Just thinking out loud here!

TheRealJoker
10-12-2011, 02:29 PM
So we added 3 players to the roster, IRed Mario, and cut DA. Who else was cut?

Ndevine7
10-12-2011, 02:30 PM
So we added 3 players to the roster, IRed Mario, and cut DA. Who else was cut?

Ogbonnaya

ChampionTexan
10-12-2011, 02:30 PM
I'm wondering if this is the precurser to having him do all returns-to include punts...

He's got the speed (plus some) of JJ and he would only be used for returns. Then release JJ for another real WR. Just thinking out loud here!

Kubiak in his press conference this morning referenced the number of snaps both Jacoby (70ish) and Manning (60ish) played on Sunday as the reason for bringing back Holliday, so I think it's more than just a precursor.

NitroGSXR
10-12-2011, 02:44 PM
I would have given my right arm to be in the Gary/Rick/McNair meeting.

From the moves they are making, I bet ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE.
And I am hoping for another move or two. A strong message must be sent to those who are lacking on the team.

Buffi2
10-12-2011, 02:53 PM
I'm wondering if this is the precurser to having him do all returns-to include punts...

According to the Texan website:

Holliday will return punts and kickoffs, allowing receiver Jacoby Jones and safety Danieal Manning to focus on their primary positions.

I must have Holliday confused with someone else. I thought I remembered him as not so good - hopefully I am wrong.

brakos82
10-12-2011, 02:53 PM
According to the Texan website:



I must have Holliday confused with someone else. I thought I remembered him as not so good - hopefully I am wrong.

The only ones that remember Holliday are the medical staff. :ouch:

Hardcore Texan
10-12-2011, 02:56 PM
Manning has done well returning kicks. This has to be a more protective move than anything else. We have already lost Mario. I'm happy to see Holliday back. I am a big fan.

I am a fan of his too, but I got to disagree about Manning's performance. He is tough to bring down and shows strength and shiftiness but most of his returns have been short of the 20 and gave us bad field position as I recall.

Hardcore Texan
10-12-2011, 02:59 PM
According to the Texan website:



I must have Holliday confused with someone else. I thought I remembered him as not so good - hopefully I am wrong.

He was a 6th or 7th round pick prior to the 2010 season. He's out of LSU. A very small guy in NFL standards around 5'6". He was the indoor national champ in the 100 meter dash or something of the sort. He's fast as lightining.

He got hurt in pre-season last year very early on and was placed on IR. Hasn't been heard from since. He was drafted to be a KR specialist and then the rule change happened this season.

Kimmy
10-12-2011, 02:59 PM
I have a pair of his teeny tiny gloves from last years training camp. I was gonna toss them.

ChrisG
10-12-2011, 02:59 PM
any word on PR? Holliday any good at returning punts?

Jacoby's pause before every return is starting to get to me. Maybe he has to buffer like a internet video before he gets going

XI CMURDER IX
10-12-2011, 03:00 PM
According to the Texan website:



I must have Holliday confused with someone else. I thought I remembered him as not so good - hopefully I am wrong.

Nope, that is the same guy. :toropalm:

Even though I think he might have shown them something in practice to warrant a comeback. He is a speedster, but that means nothing in the NFL. I figure he can't do much worse than Jacoby or Manning at this point. No knock on Manning, that is my boy from Corsicana.

TexansBull
10-12-2011, 03:59 PM
I wish they would have looked at Johnnie Lee Higgins. Not necessarily signed him, but atleast worked him out and compared him against Trindon.

kiwitexansfan
10-12-2011, 04:13 PM
Check the highlights on Holliday at LSU, I was excited to draft him.

Hopefully the injuries haven't cost him any speed.

I noticed they said he wasn't going to play any offense but I for one would love to see him on some screens and swing passes. He seems like a guy you put in a bit of space and let him make plays.

As for the other moves. OBG being released says Tate and/or Ward are fit.

Nading will work his a$$ off so that is not a bad activation.

Mason will be productive from the get go, nice add this late in the year.

Ole Miss Texan
10-12-2011, 04:13 PM
This is exciting. I hope he does well. He's one of those guys who you know is fast, probably the fastest guy in the NFL (or top few).... you're expecting him to be fast and then you see him field the kick and take off and you're still surprised. I remember watching him in training camp last season.

prostock101
10-12-2011, 05:46 PM
Why in the world are they wasting a roster spot for Holliday?

Smacks of desperation? That doesn't even make sense because KO returns are not a huge problem.

Fubar!

drs23
10-12-2011, 05:54 PM
Why in the world are they wasting a roster spot for Holliday?

Smacks of desperation? That doesn't even make sense because KO returns are not a huge problem.

Fubar!

Just a WAG & MHO but I'm thinking Kubiak is thinking that maybe, just maybe, Holliday will get lost in the sea of big bodies and take a couple, maybe three to the house. While I like the sound of that and all if he gets hit with solid contact I can see it being the end of the little pink tricycle guy. :cutthroat:

I hope that doesn't happen and he can be successful. Guess we'll all find out about the same time.

srrono
10-12-2011, 06:03 PM
Didnt Holliday look terrible in the preseason last year on ST. HE was hesitating and muffing plays droping balls?

CloakNNNdagger
10-12-2011, 06:03 PM
I actually like this move. Manning keeps running it out and can't even get it to the 20 yard line 90% of the time. I am screaming at the TV to just kneal the damn thing!

I hope Holliday can provide a spark, I can't wait to see what he will do.

Returning punts instead of punts, he will have some time and room to decide where to go.............and go there without reservation.

drs23
10-12-2011, 06:17 PM
Returning punts instead of punts, he will have some time and room to decide where to go.............and go there without reservation.

I'm cornfused. Is Holliday going to return punts or is going to return punts? :D

Texn4life
10-12-2011, 06:18 PM
I'm cornfused. Is Holliday going to return punts or is going to return punts? :D

Give him a break! I think everyone is a little confused with everything that's going on right now.

Cjeremy635
10-12-2011, 06:22 PM
I have no preference one way or the other, but those that say Manning isn't performing well on kick returns are wrong. He's averaging 27.5 yards per return. I think that puts him something like 4th in the AFC. That's not too shabby. If Holliday can fill the role and let Manning focus only on his D responsibility, then I guess it's a good thing. Hopefully this project works out.

Texanmike02
10-12-2011, 06:31 PM
Returning punts instead of punts, he will have some time and room to decide where to go.............and go there without reservation.

I'm cornfused. Is Holliday going to return punts or is going to return punts? :D

"Pint" won't be returning punts, he'll be returning kicks. Just to straighten that out for you.

Mike

CloakNNNdagger
10-12-2011, 06:34 PM
I am a fan of his too, but I got to disagree about Manning's performance. He is tough to bring down and shows strength and shiftiness but most of his returns have been short of the 20 and gave us bad field position as I recall.

During preseason, I didn't see many returns past the 20..........for that matter, there haven't been many returns past the 20 during the season. Holiday has as much potential to break the big one as anyone on the team, Joe needs to teach the support return team to do something other than how to try to get away with a block in the back.........which hasn't worked worth a flip so far for the first five games. Having adjusted poorly to the new NFL return rules, Joe has let this team down big time over the past couple years.

Texn4life
10-12-2011, 06:34 PM
"Pint" won't be returning punts, he'll be returning kicks. Just to straighten that out for you.

Mike

According to Kubiak he'll be returning punts as well.

CloakNNNdagger
10-12-2011, 06:38 PM
I'm cornfused. Is Holliday going to return punts or is going to return punts? :D


:rake: That first "punts" should have read "Kicks." It's been a long day......thanks for catching the only mistake I've made since yesterday!:)

drs23
10-12-2011, 06:46 PM
:rake: That first "punts" should have read "Kicks." It's been a long day......thanks for catching the only mistake I've made since yesterday!:)

I knew what ya ment Doc. Just trying to interject a little humor into the 'grey cloud' week we're having here on TT.

As Txn4life points out, Gary said he'd be doing both. I hope he does well and it's the spark we need to set the team up for a jubulant plane ride home from Baltimore.

I know they can do it.

DocBar
10-12-2011, 07:22 PM
All I keep thinking is :panic: and :overreact:. I guess it's good to see the FO doing something. Maybe it'll turn out better than the nothing they ususally do.
I hope I'm wrong, but I keep seeing opponents with very short fields. That little waterbug better hold on to the damn ball.

Texan_Bill
10-12-2011, 07:30 PM
Maybe I'm missing something because I'm too lazy to read through 50+ posts but when did Manning get demoted as a the return guy??

texanfan2002114
10-12-2011, 07:39 PM
Holliday didn't do that bad during preseason in kickoff returns. He only had 3 returns for 79 yards with a 26.3 average and 3 punt returns for 27 yards with 9.0 average.

Hardcore Texan
10-12-2011, 07:44 PM
I have no preference one way or the other, but those that say Manning isn't performing well on kick returns are wrong. He's averaging 27.5 yards per return. I think that puts him something like 4th in the AFC. That's not too shabby. If Holliday can fill the role and let Manning focus only on his D responsibility, then I guess it's a good thing. Hopefully this project works out.

Really? Man I must be a pessimist....lol, only remembering the bad stuff.

Hardcore Texan
10-12-2011, 07:45 PM
Holliday didn't do that bad during preseason in kickoff returns. He only had 3 returns for 79 yards with a 26.3 average and 3 punt returns for 27 yards with 9.0 average.

I got a good feeling about him!

NitroGSXR
10-12-2011, 07:52 PM
I would not be surprised if JJ was traded before the deadline. I would be stunned if we are not actively shopping him around at this point.

Texans_Chick
10-12-2011, 08:23 PM
I got a good feeling about him!

I think this is a big risk, reward move. Hard to get your first start in Baltimore.

That being said, if the punter out kicks his coverage, which sometimes happens for the Ravens, I wouldn't want to cover Holliday.

Texans_Chick
10-12-2011, 08:25 PM
I would not be surprised if JJ was traded before the deadline. I would be stunned if we are not actively shopping him around at this point.

Kubiak said he was the starter today. He defended his performance by pointing out the pressure leading to tips and errant throws. If JJ was gone, they would be insanely thin at receiver.

There's a point of view that returners should be designated guys because if they are splitting time between returning and a position on the field, they can't excel at both.

TejasTom
10-12-2011, 08:30 PM
Hopefully the injuries haven't cost him any speed.


Last year he had a thumb injury, that best I remember, required surgery. This preseason he had (surprise!) hamstring injury.

NitroGSXR
10-12-2011, 08:33 PM
Kubiak said he was the starter today. He defended his performance by pointing out the pressure leading to tips and errant throws. If JJ was gone, they would be insanely thin at receiver.

There's a point of view that returners should be designated guys because if they are splitting time between returning and a position on the field, they can't excel at both.
Exactly what I want Kubiak saying. He needs to be over-selling Jones right now.

:)

Either way, I can't imagine Kubiak ever throwing anybody under the bus.

Wolf
10-12-2011, 08:35 PM
yep Nitro

NitroGSXR
10-12-2011, 08:35 PM
Last year he had a thumb injury, that best I remember, required surgery. This preseason he had (surprise!) hamstring injury.

I think it was a pinkie.

mussop
10-12-2011, 08:45 PM
I bet jones is gone when AJ gets back unless he shows something before the. To change their minds. Don't see it happening. Bye bye Jacoby you Had the best WR in all of football to learn from but apparently you didn't care enough to take advantage of it.

Hardcore Texan
10-12-2011, 08:49 PM
I think this is a big risk, reward move. Hard to get your first start in Baltimore.

That being said, if the punter out kicks his coverage, which sometimes happens for the Ravens, I wouldn't want to cover Holliday.

I got a good feeling about him overall, not necessarily in the context of Sunday's match up. Admittedly I know very little about the Ravens' special teams. Good to know info about their punter. Hopefully he is real careful on punt returns. I like the idea of him getting a head of steam on kick returns with his speed, seems a lot of teams are bringing it out even with the rule change.

speedfreek
10-12-2011, 09:19 PM
dude's too small to play at the pro level. he will become a turnover machine when the bigger folks start hitting him

TJ

DocBar
10-12-2011, 09:36 PM
dude's too small to play at the pro level. he will become a turnover machine when the bigger folks start hitting him

TJHe's gonna be a flat out broke machine when those backup LB's and TE's start nailing him in a game that counts. 240+ hitting ~170 at full speed is a semi hitting a Smart Car. It ain't gonna be pretty for the Smart Car. If he was anything remotely resembling NFL quality at these positions, why was he on the PS to start with? As I said earlier, the :panic: has been hit and hopefully Phillips and Dennison will want to coach for the "Chin" in 2012.

ChrisG
10-12-2011, 09:47 PM
He's gonna be a flat out broke machine when those backup LB's and TE's start nailing him in a game that counts. 240+ hitting ~170 at full speed is a semi hitting a Smart Car. It ain't gonna be pretty for the Smart Car. If he was anything remotely resembling NFL quality at these positions, why was he on the PS to start with? As I said earlier, the :panic: has been hit and hopefully Phillips and Dennison will want to coach for the "Chin" in 2012.


Yea cause u can never find any quality from the practice squad. Wait, the league's leading rusher last year was where from Sept-Nov of 2009?

Im not saying he is gonna be awesome but talent can be found on the practice squad

TheMatrix31
10-12-2011, 09:51 PM
As long as Holliday doesn't fumble.

VTexan
10-12-2011, 09:55 PM
Excited to see the Holliday era begin. Would also like to see him on some screens, he runs like a running back.

Rey
10-12-2011, 09:57 PM
I like trindon because he actually looks like hes running away from contact.

I also think that if he gets enough opportunities he will make some big plays.

Texan_Bill
10-12-2011, 10:08 PM
Maybe I'm missing something because I'm too lazy to read through 50+ posts but when did Manning get demoted as a the return guy??

Hate to quote myself, but since no one addressed my question before (and apparently I missed something) when did Manning not become our return guy anymore??

NitroGSXR
10-12-2011, 10:13 PM
Hate to quote myself, but since no one addressed my question before (and apparently I missed something) when did Manning not become our return guy anymore??

For the time and effort it took you to quote yourself, you would have,been finished reading through this thread. You lazy sumbitch.

:)

Kubiak wants JJ and Manning to focus on their positions. Manning is in on 70+ snaps in addition to the return game. He's tired.

ChampionTexan
10-12-2011, 10:17 PM
Hate to quote myself, but since no one addressed my question before (and apparently I missed something) when did Manning not become our return guy anymore??

I don't know that referring to it as a demotion is an accurate way of putting it (especially in Manning's case), but basically, at a press conference earlier today, Kubiak referenced the number of snaps both Manning and Jacoby played on Sunday and essentially said he wanted to get them a little relief. Here's the quote from HT.com

"Our two returners (Manning and Jones) are starters that have played a ton of football," Kubiak said. "We need to make sure we're being fair to those guys from a freshness standpoint, so we're bringing Trindon back to hopefully give us a little bit in the return game and hopefully play a few special teams for us."


LINK (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Texans-trade-for-Mason-sign-Holliday-Nading/7fc3b276-5651-4b46-ba80-976e054058a9)

DocBar
10-12-2011, 10:19 PM
Yea cause u can never find any quality from the practice squad. Wait, the league's leading rusher last year was where from Sept-Nov of 2009?

Im not saying he is gonna be awesome but talent can be found on the practice squadApples and oranges.

ChampionTexan
10-12-2011, 10:20 PM
edit - double post

Carr Bombed
10-12-2011, 10:22 PM
He's gonna be a flat out broke machine when those backup LB's and TE's start nailing him in a game that counts. 240+ hitting ~170 at full speed is a semi hitting a Smart Car. It ain't gonna be pretty for the Smart Car. If he was anything remotely resembling NFL quality at these positions, why was he on the PS to start with? As I said earlier, the :panic: has been hit and hopefully Phillips and Dennison will want to coach for the "Chin" in 2012.

J.J. Moses played in 30 games during his two seasons here...and out of over 200+ returns he only put the ball on the ground twice. He's the same identical size as Holiday. I'm not saying at that size that a player has nothing to worry about injury wise, but it doesn't mean it's a certainty that "somebody is going to break you" either. It all depends on if he's fast/quick enough to avoid kill shots and square on hits (like most small guys are). Plus the guy played in the SEC...he played against a lot of players that size in college.

CloakNNNdagger
10-12-2011, 10:22 PM
I think it was a pinkie.


It was a left thumb ligament.

ChampionTexan
10-12-2011, 10:24 PM
He's gonna be a flat out broke machine when those backup LB's and TE's start nailing him in a game that counts. 240+ hitting ~170 at full speed is a semi hitting a Smart Car. It ain't gonna be pretty for the Smart Car. If he was anything remotely resembling NFL quality at these positions, why was he on the PS to start with? As I said earlier, the :panic: has been hit and hopefully Phillips and Dennison will want to coach for the "Chin" in 2012.

No worries! He wasn't actually on the practice squad - he'd been cut from it a couple of weeks ago and was on the street, so all is well.

NitroGSXR
10-12-2011, 10:29 PM
It was a left thumb ligament.

His left thumb is comparable to my pinkie so... SHUT IT!!!

:D

Thanks for the clarification. I went and looked it up and sure enough... it was the thumb.

Carr Bombed
10-12-2011, 10:39 PM
As far as another topic that was discussed in this thread. Daniel Manning has been a fantastic returner for us, I don't see how anybody could criticize the job he's done returning the ball this year. I see the move to Holiday solely being that they can't afford to lose someone like Manning in the secondary. Injuries are starting to mount, this is a attempt to not lose a starter to STs play only.

Houston has been one of the best kick return teams in the league with Manning returning kicks...he's been a asset returning kicks this year as he's hardly ever brought down by the first guy and has 0 wasted movement. He's a point A to B returner.

Carr Bombed
10-12-2011, 11:02 PM
And Moses has what to do with Holliday other than tiny? Moses lasted how long? Holliday did what in previous preseasons? Notice that I didn't compare Holliday to anyone else. I merely judged his results on the field of play. If you feel all warm and fuzzy about this, I surmise that you have an obese, hairy wife. Please quit posting with her on your mind. :kitten: :D

In your post you were talking about a player at 170 pounds not being able to stay healthy...well guess how much Moses weighed and how tall Moses was. It has everything to do with Moses since they have the same exact body type. During his two seasons here he only failed to play in two ball games. Are you going to call this a apples and oranges argument too, because from where I'm sitting 5-6 and 175 pounds = 5-5 and 170 pounds and is apples and apples.

I don't really care how long Moses played here, he gave us two seasons and I'm only looking for Holiday to get us through the last 11 games without screwing the pooch. You totally lost me with the fat, hairy, wife line. As far as Trindon goes though, I'm more concerned with his ability to catch the ball than what he can actually do once he has it.

76Texan
10-12-2011, 11:32 PM
As far as another topic that was discussed in this thread. Daniel Manning has been a fantastic returner for us, I don't see how anybody could criticize the job he's done returning the ball this year. I see the move to Holiday solely being that they can't afford to lose someone like Manning in the secondary. Injuries are starting to mount, this is a attempt to not lose a starter to STs play only.

Houston has been one of the best kick return teams in the league with Manning returning kicks...he's been a asset returning kicks this year as he's hardly ever brought down by the first guy and has 0 wasted movement. He's a point A to B returner.

I see the same thing here as you do CB.

On Holliday, he actually was known more for his punt return at LSU then kick return.

His 18 yard average on punt return during his Sr year was outstanding (362 yards on 20 returns.)

He has good hands and good concentration (for the most part).
However, as a small guy, he does have small hands.
I had watched a huge numbers of his returns (about 15 games in his last 2 years at LSU; I only watched games against tier 1 opponents.)
I really like the guy out of college; however, I do have concern about him catching the ball as an NFL coverage man approaching in on a tackle.

When he gets hit hard a few times, his mental approach might be affected.
This (the mental aspect) was my biggest concern.

If the coaches (after seeing him in practice at this level for over a year) think that he can handle it, I'm all for giving him a shot.

Last year, our roster spots were more in flux (we weren't as set with the back-ups at a few different positions), it was harder to justify carrying a specialist.
This year is a little different; we have a little better depth.
Of course, if we can find another situational pass rusher, things can change.
(They may cut Nading or Holliday or another position, depending on how things shape up.)

GP
10-12-2011, 11:48 PM
What I think everyone is failing to talk about here is this:

NOBODY'S job is safe.

1. We kept Maynard (the punter), he sucked in the next preseason game and he was cut and Hartmann was brought back on.

2. David Anderson was cut, tried to catch on in Denver, and was brought back to Houston. I am sure he probably thought he had it made and was back in the fold again, back home with Houston. And now? He was cut again.

3. OgBo was started vs. Raiders, and was promptly cut this week.

4. Holliday, who had been cut from the PS, is now being asked to come in on ff the street and return kicks and punts.

5. Jacoby had his golden chance vs. Raiders to show he belongs as a starter, and possibly as a WR at all, and he blew it. We've been told that he isn't returning punts so that he can focus on being a WR...but come now, does anybody truly believe that by signing Derrick Mason that Jacoby will see time on the field unless injuries to other WRs allow him to be? Maybe if we have a 5 WR set Jacoby also could see time at WR...but my money is on Jacoby being shown the door at some point. It's over. His fugg ups vs. Raiders might have been a huge factor in the loss.

I bet there will be a passionate Texans team this Sunday. Not saying it translates into a win on the road vs. the Ravens. Just saying that I think, as some have speculated, there was a HUGE shit storm in the meetings this week.

Lots of shuffling, lots of coach-speak, and a coach who knows it's now or never.

What's sad is that Kubiak should have been operating like this EVERY year, but he had to try the "Awww shucks" game by having lingering loyalties that he's having nothing to do with THIS season.

Someone's wearing gasoline underwear while running through hell, I would say.

TheMatrix31
10-12-2011, 11:51 PM
And there's the difference. Whatever the reason, whether they've waken up or been awakened by the heat that's on their ass, management is doing something.

This is a very good development. We're maturing. A couple years late to be sure, but it's happening.

GP
10-13-2011, 12:06 AM
I thought Jacoby was going to have an electric game vs. Raiders.

I really did.

I figured he would understand the gravity of the situation: (A) He's been here for years upon years, being given lots of grace by Kubiak, (B) Andre Johnson is out, and it was up to Jacoby to stretch the field like Andre does, and (C) We needed this win vs. the Raiders very badly.

It went to shit, folks. And with it, IMO, so did Jaocby's future here. Look at the series of dominoes that have fallen since Sunday. Even OgBo got his ass kicked to the curb. The message: Life is cold and cruel, get a sweater or freeze to death.

I don't want to be sucked into being a "mark" again, though. However, what if the massive amount of ass kicking that happened this week ends up being something that sparks this team to a new level?

What if Schaub was disgusted with himself on a whole new level than before? What if the o-line also feels they screwed the pooch on Sunday? What if by seeing his punt return duties taken away, Jacoby ends up being a cautionary tale of How To Not Lose Your Job for every player on this team who needs that type of motivation?

If Mason pays off with lots of catches, moving the chains, maybe even a TD score vs. Ravens. And if Holliday ceases the day and excels at returning kicks/punts, maybe we can win on the road and maybe it sends a message that the kiddy train has been put away and the big boy train is finally being rolled out.

THIS game (and God didn't we just say this about last week's Raiders game too?!?!?) is now the most important game in Texans history.

Do our guys find a way to be punk asses and blow this? It's up to them, no doubt. It will be "On them" this Sunday, one way or another. This has the makings of an NFL Classic if all the stars align correctly.

TheMatrix31
10-13-2011, 12:14 AM
That's the difference. The response. The loss against the Raiders was "typical Texans" or whatever, but the response in the last 3 days has NOT been "typical" Texans." This leads me to believe that it's turning from "typical Texans" to just losses that happen to happen becaue the other team is pretty good.

A key is Cushing. I want him fired the HELL up and I want him firing everyone else the hell up. That shot of him with the blood on his face was just so awesome.

Texanmike02
10-13-2011, 09:01 AM
According to Kubiak he'll be returning punts as well.

You neg repped me for that? LMFAO.

Mike

Texn4life
10-13-2011, 09:04 AM
You neg repped me for that? LMFAO.

Mike

Sorry, I'm new to this site like you made me aware of when I brought up the old #8. Won't happen again...... Besides, I still have no clue what the heck a rep is all about anyway.

Porky
10-13-2011, 09:14 AM
I actually like this move. Manning keeps running it out and can't even get it to the 20 yard line 90% of the time. I am screaming at the TV to just kneal the damn thing!

I hope Holliday can provide a spark, I can't wait to see what he will do.

Huh? You do know he is 4th in the league right? Do you watch the actual games?

Kthx
10-13-2011, 09:24 AM
To be fair Trindon is only a few inches shorter and about twenty lbs lighter than Woodhead is and that guy manages pretty well. I just hope that since he basically got drafted to become a returner in the first place that he doesn't have any bad habits like JJ does as far as taking that side step. I just want someone who catches the ball and takes off downfield instead of across the field or towards the back of the field.

infantrycak
10-13-2011, 09:32 AM
Are you going to call this a apples and oranges argument too, because from where I'm sitting 5-6 and 175 pounds = 5-5 and 170 pounds and is apples and apples.

I don't really care how long Moses played here, he gave us two seasons and I'm only looking for Holiday to get us through the last 11 games without screwing the pouch.

Definitely apples and apples on size. I personally didn't like them getting rid of Moses. They did it to have more of a home run threat. Trindon certainly gives that with his speed, but what I liked about Moses was his dependability and average. Return TD's are rare. I'll take an extra 8 yards of average field position on 50 returns rather than 1 TD return. The other thing I loved about Moses was how he fielded the ball with two hands at or above his head rather than trying to basket catch at his belly.

3. OgBo was started vs. Raiders, and was promptly cut this week.

Foster was the starter. OgBo was only backup because Tate and Ward weren't fully healed.

I bet there will be a passionate Texans team this Sunday. Not saying it translates into a win on the road vs. the Ravens. Just saying that I think, as some have speculated, there was a HUGE shit storm in the meetings this week.

I won't predict a win but I think the OL is embarrassed and is going to come out with a serious head of steam. Hopefully that translates to 5 ypc like it did last year against the Ravens.

Besides, I still have no clue what the heck a rep is all about anyway.

It is a mechanism for recognizing exceptional posts whether good or bad although on this MB most people don't use negative rep much at all. Generally it is used for a kind of "damn you nailed that on the head" approval of a post.

Hardcore Texan
10-13-2011, 09:35 AM
Huh? You do know he is 4th in the league right? Do you watch the actual games?

No Porky I don't. I am not a season ticket holder either. I barely pay attention to the team.....and not everyone is ASS-tute as you.

By 4th in the leauge you mean 4th in the AFC.....right? As someone already mentioned. Except that stat is wrong too. Pesky little details and all. He's 17th in the NFL and 8th in the AFC! Stat wise his mediocre at best.

Do YOU watch the actual games? Do you make up your own stats as you go?

Perhaps you should read the rest of the thread before commenting, where this is covered and I state my memory and perception may be doing him a little disservice.

I stand by comment of him knealing the ball though. I was implying when he gets it 6 yards deep or more in the endzone he runs it out and shouldn't, that's when I scream at the TV!!! He doesn't get back to the 20 in those cases. I fully expect him to bring it out only a few yards deep or less. He has done much better when that is the case, again going by memory. Too bad they don't break out the stat by yards per return based on how deep they are when the received the ball.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=KICK_RETURNS&season=2011&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go

Texan_Bill
10-13-2011, 09:40 AM
For the time and effort it took you to quote yourself, you would have,been finished reading through this thread. You lazy sumbitch.

:)

Kubiak wants JJ and Manning to focus on their positions. Manning is in on 70+ snaps in addition to the return game. He's tired.

I don't know that referring to it as a demotion is an accurate way of putting it (especially in Manning's case), but basically, at a press conference earlier today, Kubiak referenced the number of snaps both Manning and Jacoby played on Sunday and essentially said he wanted to get them a little relief. Here's the quote from HT.com



LINK (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Texans-trade-for-Mason-sign-Holliday-Nading/7fc3b276-5651-4b46-ba80-976e054058a9)

I'll need to go back and watch the film to get that cleaned up. That's on me.

Regards,

Gary

Texanmike02
10-13-2011, 09:42 AM
Sorry, I'm new to this site like you made me aware of when I brought up the old #8. Won't happen again...... Besides, I still have no clue what the heck a rep is all about anyway.

Well you're not supposed to say the old #8's name. That is instant neg rep. Bad JuJu for the Texans man. HWWNBN. Or you can call him Autoo anything but his name.

Mike

Texan_Bill
10-13-2011, 09:43 AM
Well you're not supposed to say the old #8's name. That is instant neg rep. Bad JuJu for the Texans man. HWWNBN. Or you can call him Autoo anything but his name.

Mike

Who mentioned HWWNBN??? :foottap:

:cutthroat:

Texanmike02
10-13-2011, 09:53 AM
Who mentioned HWWNBN??? :foottap:

:cutthroat:

Txn4life did. That's why this whole thing started. The football Gods knew he was going to do it and they punched JJ in the brain with 8 seconds to go in the game. Yes. I now add him to the list of people to blame for the Oakland loss.
:pirate:

Mike

Texn4life
10-13-2011, 11:30 AM
Txn4life did. That's why this whole thing started. The football Gods knew he was going to do it and they punched JJ in the brain with 8 seconds to go in the game. Yes. I now add him to the list of people to blame for the Oakland loss.
:pirate:

Mike

Forgive me for not believing in any of that foolishness. If I say his name 3 times in the mirror will he show up and sack me in retaliation for all the punishment he took here?

HOU-TEX
10-13-2011, 11:45 AM
Forgive me for not believing in any of that foolishness. If I say his name 3 times in the mirror will he show up and sack me in retaliation for all the punishment he took here?

No, but he might fire a football at you, miss and zing past your wife's head.

Then he'll either A) run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage, or B) hit the turf, commencing an instant fetal position

GP
10-13-2011, 12:20 PM
Foster was the starter. OgBo was only backup because Tate and Ward weren't fully healed.

I consider the #1 and #2 RBs to both be starters. They get switched out all game long, rather than being a benched player who would only come on in scenarios of injuries or a coach demoting the 1st string guy.

Semantics.

panamamyers
10-13-2011, 12:28 PM
Brandon Banks makes Holliday look like Jim Brown, and Banks has done just fine with Washington.

Texan_Bill
10-13-2011, 12:44 PM
No, but he might fire a football at you, miss and zing past your wife's head.

Then he'll either A) run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage, or B) hit the turf, commencing an instant fetal position

:heh:

Fear the mittens!

Hardcore Texan
10-13-2011, 12:48 PM
I consider the #1 and #2 RBs to both be starters. They get switched out all game long, rather than being a benched player who would only come on in scenarios of injuries or a coach demoting the 1st string guy.

Semantics.

I disagree. This is how I see it:

Starter = majority of the snaps, especially an every down back like Arian.

#2 = situational player i.e. goal line back, 3rd down back, etc. Or to give the starter an occasional breather or to keep the starter fresh for the 4th qtr. Much fewer snaps than the starter.

I rarely see a 50/50 split on the carries, most of the time you need to give the RB a chance to get in a groove.

infantrycak
10-13-2011, 12:52 PM
I rarely see a 50/50 split on the carries, most of the time you need to give the RB a chance to get in a groove.

In this particular instance it was Foster 22 carries, Ogbo 2.

Hardcore Texan
10-13-2011, 12:59 PM
In this particular instance it was Foster 22 carries, Ogbo 2.

Exactly. That's a huge disparity. Even with a healthy Tate, obviously the preferred back up, it still wouldn't be real close, some where in the neighborhood of 70/30 (injuries aside).

*disclaimer - that's an estimation in my head not an official stat, better get that out there before Porky ask if I even watch the games.

Rey
10-13-2011, 01:22 PM
I had Trindon making my final roster for many of the reasons that are now being discussed in this thread. Hopefully the little guy comes in and provides a much needed element of explosion to the team and becomes a fixture for years to come.

HOU-TEX
10-13-2011, 01:29 PM
:heh:

Fear the mittens!

Heh, I don't think I'll ever forget that ball he threw away, barely missing that cheerleader's head. It would've been a devastating blow if it had made contact.

And the camera man that almost got knocked out by one of his 'throw aways'

Reminds me of that movie Varsity Blues where Mox drills the opposing teams mascot.

infantrycak
10-13-2011, 02:34 PM
Exactly. That's a huge disparity. Even with a healthy Tate, obviously the preferred back up, it still wouldn't be real close, some where in the neighborhood of 70/30 (injuries aside).

*disclaimer - that's an estimation in my head not an official stat, better get that out there before Porky ask if I even watch the games.

Last year it was 327 attempts for Foster and 69 for the other RB's. That's 83% Foster/17% others.

GP
10-13-2011, 02:47 PM
So Jacoby Jones and Kevin Walter are not starters?

AJ is the lead guy, but he's the only "starter" according to you guys' thinking.

Leinart is definitely not a starter. Only one QB on the field at a time. Leinart is a backup/bench QB.

You can have "starters" despite the ratio of carries or catches. In terms of last week, Foster and OgBo were the starters at RB. Many times, you've even got multiple RB sets on the field. And especially in Kubiak's system...where he rides the hot hand...the word "starter" for RBs is even more ambiguous.

Semantics. Like I said. But keep flogging me for it....it's fun.

infantrycak
10-13-2011, 02:59 PM
So Jacoby Jones and Kevin Walter are not starters?

Depends. JJ generally no. Look, the NFL has a standard for whether a player is a starter in any particular game and it is pretty semantic proof. If you are on the field of play for the first snap of that unit O or D you are a starter in that game. If the first play of the game was a three WR set with JJ in the game he'll get credit as a starter. That's how AJ, Walter and JJ had 36 combined starts last year. That's how Leach only had 5 starts last year.

But keep flogging me for it....it's fun.

Nobody is trying to flog you for it.

I provided the stats in post #106 because a lot of folks think we RBBC when it really is not true.

GP
10-13-2011, 03:04 PM
Depends. JJ generally no. Look, the NFL has a standard for whether a player is a starter in any particular game and it is pretty semantic proof. If you are on the field of play for the first snap of that unit O or D you are a starter in that game. If the first play of the game was a three WR set with JJ in the game he'll get credit as a starter. That's how AJ, Walter and JJ had 36 combined starts last year. That's how Leach only had 5 starts last year.



Nobody is trying to flog you for it.

When I mentioned OgBo as a "starter," in the context of this conversation (semantics), I think everyone knew what I was saying. It didn't need to be challenged, as if it was misleading to the topic at hand.

OgBo went from practice squad (4th on the depth chart) to appearing as RB2, and then cut afterward. The point was that, not whether he is or isn't a starter by the strictest interpretation.

Had you not included it in your multi-quote, everything moves along. That's where I pick a bone with your need to be the message board mommy who corrects everyone when you get the chance. It was tacky.

Texans_Chick
10-13-2011, 03:18 PM
J.J. Moses played in 30 games during his two seasons here...and out of over 200+ returns he only put the ball on the ground twice. He's the same identical size as Holiday. I'm not saying at that size that a player has nothing to worry about injury wise, but it doesn't mean it's a certainty that "somebody is going to break you" either. It all depends on if he's fast/quick enough to avoid kill shots and square on hits (like most small guys are). Plus the guy played in the SEC...he played against a lot of players that size in college.

If Coach Marciano had his way, he would always work with a designated return guy like Moses.

He loved JJ Moses. What he didn't like is that JJ could be caught from behind.

He was the one that wanted Trindon Holliday on the Texans. At the time he said, "You can't coach speed." That if someone gave him a fast, quick guy, he could teach him the special teams.

Given Holliday's inexperience, it really is a big risk/reward move. Marciano does have the most rookie returners who have made the Pro Bowl. I believe 3 over his career.

Hardcore Texan
10-13-2011, 03:23 PM
When I mentioned OgBo as a "starter," in the context of this conversation (semantics), I think everyone knew what I was saying. It didn't need to be challenged, as if it was misleading to the topic at hand.

OgBo went from practice squad (4th on the depth chart) to appearing as RB2, and then cut afterward. The point was that, not whether he is or isn't a starter by the strictest interpretation.

Had you not included it in your multi-quote, everything moves along. That's where I pick a bone with your need to be the message board mommy who corrects everyone when you get the chance. It was tacky.

I don't see anyone "flogging" anyone. Well except Porky getting real snarky with me and being way off base. Still waiting on you big Porky to come back to this thread.

Anywho, it sounds like a matter of interpretation for me I guess. I don't ever consider RB2 a starter. A starter to me is someone who carries the load, besides starts the first play of the game (obviously) as 'Cak mentioned where they get credit for it. I tend to associate it that way. JJ is WR#3, unless we start the game in a 3 WR set, JJ is not technically a starter when AJ and Walter are healthy.

A 3 WR set would mean no full back, 1 TE, and 1 RB. We wouldn't see Casey in on the first snap. Does that mean we don't have a starting FB? I guess I think of depth chart position to tell the tale vs. who is on the first snap of the game even though that's the technical definition and stat.

Texan_Bill
10-13-2011, 03:30 PM
If Coach Marciano had his way, he would always work with a designated return guy like Moses.

He loved JJ Moses. What he didn't like is that JJ could be caught from behind.

He was the one that wanted Trindon Holliday on the Texans. At the time he said, "You can't coach speed." That if someone gave him a fast, quick guy, he could teach him the special teams.

Given Holliday's inexperience, it really is a big risk/reward move. Marciano does have the most rookie returners who have made the Pro Bowl. I believe 3 over his career.

I loved JJ Moses. He wasn't really a threat to take it to the house, BUT he never put the Texans in a bad spot or hurt them.

Unlike me.

Signed,

Fair catch at the 6 yard line with an over the shoulder catch aka The "other" JJ

House of Pain
10-13-2011, 05:19 PM
If Coach Marciano had his way, he would always work with a designated return guy like Moses.

He loved JJ Moses. What he didn't like is that JJ could be caught from behind.

He was the one that wanted Trindon Holliday on the Texans. At the time he said, "You can't coach speed." That if someone gave him a fast, quick guy, he could teach him the special teams.

Given Holliday's inexperience, it really is a big risk/reward move. Marciano does have the most rookie returners who have made the Pro Bowl. I believe 3 over his career.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Coach Joe lobby to have Holliday drafted?

House of Pain
10-13-2011, 05:20 PM
Well you're not supposed to say the old #8's name. That is instant neg rep. Bad JuJu for the Texans man. HWWNBN. Or you can call him Autoo anything but his name.

Mike

I personally think that "Viejo Ocho" is a decent substitute for HWWNBN or Mr. Mittens.

Texans_Chick
10-13-2011, 05:29 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Coach Joe lobby to have Holliday drafted?

Yes. On YouTube, I have video of him talking about a whole bunch of special teams things, including wanting to draft Holliday. /too lazy to look up

Rey
10-13-2011, 05:56 PM
So Jacoby Jones and Kevin Walter are not starters?

AJ is the lead guy, but he's the only "starter" according to you guys' thinking.

Leinart is definitely not a starter. Only one QB on the field at a time. Leinart is a backup/bench QB.

You can have "starters" despite the ratio of carries or catches.

Jacoby is a semi starter...Walter is full fledged...

Carries and catches have nothing to do with it...It's about the amount of snaps you take in regards to packages you are a part of....

For instance...Vonta didn't play a whole, whole lot but he was a starter because whenever a package called for a FB he was the guy...

If we have two WR's on the field Jacoby could technically be one of them, but Walter will be the other guy most times.

We run a lot of two-tight, but Dreesen isn't a starter because when we use 1 TE which we do quite often as well, OD is the guy who will get the nod...

Walter is a starter because we we rarely go with 1 wr, but if we ran a bunch of 1 WR stuff Walter would be considered second string....

House of Pain
10-13-2011, 06:36 PM
Yes. On YouTube, I have video of him talking about a whole bunch of special teams things, including wanting to draft Holliday. /too lazy to look up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gge3K72o0uQ

#niceguy

amazing80
10-15-2011, 10:58 PM
I still like Jones on punts, his play count will drop with Mason here and even more when AJ comes back. I do prefer Holiday over Manning, because either Manning is gassed on defense or he isn't good. I tend to think he is just gassed. He plays defense and then has to immediately return a kick if they score. He just doesn't have the energy to run one back. Trindon will do nothing but return, so he should have plenty of juice to keep that motor running all game long.

EVOLVIST
10-16-2011, 03:19 AM
Brandon Banks makes Holliday look like Jim Brown, and Banks has done just fine with Washington.

This. The only rub is that Banks has merely played two years as a pro (though he's impressive, longevity is the main concern for someone of his size and stature).

So, let's try...

Gerald McNeil WR/KR/PR
5'7", 145 lbs.

1984-1985 - Houston Gamblers
1986-1989 - Cleveland Browns
1990 - Houston Oilers
Pro-Bowl 1987.

That's a good 7 years.

I remember McNeil well. FAST and electric!

Man, I forgot all about the USFL refs wearing short pants.

Wow. The shit I remember at 3:15am. :sleep:

281
10-16-2011, 11:34 AM
i'm worried about this because of his penchant for fumbling (small hands + bigger nfl ball). i hope i'm wrong.

jtexas
10-16-2011, 01:51 PM
Inactive today against Ravens. That lasted long.

amazing80
10-16-2011, 01:58 PM
:vincepalm: ugh why bring him back if you make him inactive

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2011, 02:08 PM
From ESPN

They signed returner Trindon Holliday this week and Gary Kubiak indicated Holliday would take punt returns off Jacoby Jones’ plate and reduce Danieal Manning’s workload by taking over kickoff returns. But Holliday is inactive, so the Ravens are unwilling or not ready to go forward with that idea.


LOL

panamamyers
10-16-2011, 02:38 PM
It's a lot easier to be a riverboat gambler and take chances on Tuesday than it is on Sunday. We have extremely conservative, to a fault, guys making decisions.

97roc
10-16-2011, 02:41 PM
Inactive today against Ravens. That lasted long.

Seriously? WTH! Why use up the roster spot then?

Rey
10-16-2011, 03:34 PM
Maybe the texans figured balty would kick out of the ez everytime and they wouldn't force them to punt much.