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Vinny
10-10-2011, 09:26 PM
John Clayton tosses Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden and Jeff Fisher's names out there after the disappointing loss to the Raiders. Here are five things I learned from Week 5:

1. Troubling losses for coaches: Once again, the Houston Texans and Gary Kubiak came up short in a close game, this time against the Raiders. Losing close games has been a staple of the Texans under Kubiak. Starting last November, the Texans finished a disappointing 6-10 season by losing five games that were decided by seven points or fewer. They blew a nine-point lead earlier this year in New Orleans, and Sunday's loss to the Raiders was even more frustrating. During Kubiak's coaching career, the Texans are 20-24 in close games.

The Texans jumped to a 14-6 lead by the second quarter, but the offense went cold late in the first half. Things started falling apart when QB Matt Schaub had a second-and-1 at the Raiders' 37-yard line, managed only two incompletions and Houston ended up punting and getting no points. The Texans followed with three worthless possessions in their own territory, giving the Raiders a chance to come back.

Wade Phillips came in as defensive coordinator and has shaved 7.7 points a game off what Houston's defense allowed last year. But what's amazing is that the Texans, considered the AFC South's front-runner with the Colts' Peyton Manning not playing, have been outscored 24-6 in the third quarter this season. If the Texans lose the division to the Tennessee Titans, owner Bob McNair might be tempted to bring in Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden or Jeff Fisher next year. http://espn.go.com/nfl/notebook/_/page/lastcall1105/john-clayton-last-call

thunderkyss
10-10-2011, 09:34 PM
Wow, that didn't take long. I wonder if they see this three game losing streak we're working on & think better of McNair to live through that again without doing something.

SouthSideTexan
10-10-2011, 09:35 PM
Cowher should have been here the second week of January. :toropalm:

Honoring Earl 34
10-10-2011, 09:37 PM
They made their bed . :toropalm:

Corrosion
10-10-2011, 09:38 PM
No AJ , No MW .... a game dominated by the Raiders DL .... and the Texans were a missed FG by Rackers away from winning 26-25 instead of losing 25-20 ..... but lets blame Kubiak.

Vinny
10-10-2011, 09:40 PM
No AJ , No MW .... a game dominated by the Raiders DL .... and the Texans were a missed FG by Rackers away from winning 26-25 instead of losing 25-20 ..... but lets blame Kubiak.
Losing to the Raiders at home...something playoff teams really shouldn't do. probably

The Packers seemed to do OK last year after missing key players. I'm not calling this team the Packers, but I didn't see those guys making any excuses. All they did was step up and win.

Big Lou
10-10-2011, 09:40 PM
That's it, it's over pack it in boys. The fat lady has sung its all over five games in to the season. We've lost to a top five team in the Saints, and an up and coming inspired team, wow we outta just give up now.


This is F-ing B*llsh*t, we are five games in to the season, if the season were over right now with our winning percentage we'd be 10 and 6, so until we are 5 and 7 I'm not gonna panic.

COME ON MAN!!! These pundits are douche nozzles.

Marcus
10-10-2011, 09:41 PM
Ask Bob McNair if he really cares what John Clayton tosses out.

TexansBull
10-10-2011, 09:42 PM
The coaching change speculation goes hand in hand with the playoff speculation. Each year we are picked to make the playoffs, and each year we are expected to make a coaching. Just the media being the media. Picking both sides so they can be right 100% and say I told you so.

J_R
10-10-2011, 09:43 PM
Still too early for this speculation. I mean, we havent even had the yearly 3 game losing streak or hit the yearly 5-7 mark yet!

Grams
10-10-2011, 09:43 PM
Cowher should have been here the second week of January. :toropalm:

He should have been here after the Dallas game last year.

Marcus
10-10-2011, 09:43 PM
No AJ , No MW .... a game dominated by the Raiders DL .... and the Texans were a missed FG by Rackers away from winning 26-25 instead of losing 25-20 ..... but lets blame Kubiak.

Doesn't make much sense, does it?

Carr Bombed
10-10-2011, 09:44 PM
No AJ , No MW .... a game dominated by the Raiders DL .... and the Texans were a missed FG by Rackers away from winning 26-25 instead of losing 25-20 ..... but lets blame Kubiak.

You're right...lets re-sign him to a life long contract. After all when you're a head coach in the national football league who in their right mind actually cares about on the field results. Nothing is ever his fault.

This goes beyond the Raiders game, it's his knack that no matter what happens with this team, they always find a way to lose games instead of finding ways to win them and in this league you're judged by wins only. Fair or not. Injuries aren't a excuse for him.

steelbtexan
10-10-2011, 09:44 PM
BoBBY will never fire his illegitimate son Gary.

If he did Wades his man. I'm sure BoBBy promised that to Bum if he would schill for Gary last yr.

Big Lou
10-10-2011, 09:47 PM
No AJ , No MW .... a game dominated by the Raiders DL .... and the Texans were a missed FG by Rackers away from winning 26-25 instead of losing 25-20 ..... but lets blame Kubiak.

and the Defense held the Raiders to under 200 passing and McFadden to 51 yards rushing.

steelbtexan
10-10-2011, 09:49 PM
Still too early for this speculation. I mean, we havent even had the yearly 3 game losing streak or hit the yearly 5-7 mark yet!

Is it 5-7 four yrs running?

That says it all really.

Surreal McCoy
10-10-2011, 09:50 PM
I can't wait for Cowher to show up here. I give it about a season and a half before you guys claim you never wanted him.

At least at that point we won't further suffer the Cowher cult of personality as he will be brutally exposed without a world class GM like he had in Pitt.

houstonspartan
10-10-2011, 09:51 PM
No AJ , No MW .... a game dominated by the Raiders DL .... and the Texans were a missed FG by Rackers away from winning 26-25 instead of losing 25-20 ..... but lets blame Kubiak.

Lol. How dare we blame the head coach!

(Texans fans are so clueless sometimes, I swear).

GuerillaBlack
10-10-2011, 09:52 PM
Why do fans want McNair to hold onto Kubiak so bad? So many teams in the NFL have changed regimes and have had much more success than Kubiak can ever dream of. The team is the same as always. Raiders game showed a lot.

utahmark
10-10-2011, 09:55 PM
We make the playoff's, he stays. We miss the playoff's, he goes. No use cramping up your fingers typing about it untill one of those things happens.

Porky
10-10-2011, 09:57 PM
All you do is have to look at my avatar to know where I stand. I haven't changed it all year long for a reason. When you can show me a leopard that suddenly changes it's spots, I will remove it.

As it stands, Kubes is what he is and the team is his. We are 3-3 after next week, and going on the road to a hungry team that has Munchak as HC, a guy I admire and respect greatly, and he will have those guys ready to play. All the sudden we are looking at 3-4 and in yet another death spiral. Not predicting that YET, but I am saying its a possibility.

The one saving grace is the defense is pretty damn good this year. We'll see what Wade can do without Mario. That is a huge blow.

And I also agree with whomever said it's Wade's team. Bob Mcnair's idea of making a big splash is doing a cannonball off the diving board at his mansion. :kitten:

J_R
10-10-2011, 10:00 PM
Is it 5-7 four yrs running?

That says it all really.

07-10, yup.

Texan_Bill
10-10-2011, 10:01 PM
I'm actually surprised someone didn't beat me to my own "Go To Post":::

http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/notagain_copy3.jpg





Y'all are becoming slackers......... WTF????

GP
10-10-2011, 10:01 PM
I really don't know what to believe anymore.

I just watched my first game in Reliant, and I knew by the start of the 2nd quarter that it was going to end badly. I swear to goodness I did. When my wife and everybody else is standing and cheering for Quarters 2, 3, and 4...and I'm sitting there like I'm at my workplace computer watching someone rob my house via my Internet-connected security cameras....well, I just sat there and wondered HOW it was going to happen. Not IF. HOW.

The Raiders adjusted. Period. They got HAMMERED by our defense in Quarter 1, and then it clicked in their head: Just kick field goals; the Texans will crumble under the pressure. And that's what they did. They made sure they did just enough to nickel and dime their way into FG range for The Janitor. Bang. Did it again. Bang. Bang. Bang. I think he had 4 FGs. 12 points, IIRC. You might survive one gunshot to the body. But four? Nope.

Our guy didn't adjust. He kept trying to run on an 8-man front. His only success with Arian Foster was to use the swing pass to Arian. It worked beautifully two times, and we needed more of that.

Our guy didn't have a designed play to target Foster or OD with 7 seconds left in the game. You always put your QB in position to have those superstars get the ball. It's what they do. If THAT play isn't there, throw it away and get one more shot. Simple.

I won't hang this on an injury to Mario. Nor on Vickers dropping a sure TD, since there were so many other things (for both teams) that impacted the game.

One coach find a way to win. Another found a way to lose.

(Sigh)

I am not happy. My current status is: Pissed off at the coaching and/or lack of in-game adjustments. Inability to beat a team like the Raiders in our own house. Kubiak is jinxed, IMO. And then we've got Wade Phillips waiting in the wings IF he gets axed. Yay. It is such a kick in the nuts to be a fan of this team.

thunderkyss
10-10-2011, 10:07 PM
I can't wait for Cowher to show up here. I give it about a season and a half before you guys claim you never wanted him.

At least at that point we won't further suffer the Cowher cult of personality as he will be brutally exposed without a world class GM like he had in Pitt.

I'll tell you right now I never wanted him. I don't like any of the names mentioned so far.

Texan_Bill
10-10-2011, 10:16 PM
I really don't know what to believe anymore.

I just watched my first game in Reliant, and I knew by the start of the 2nd quarter that it was going to end badly. I swear to goodness I did. When my wife and everybody else is standing and cheering for Quarters 2, 3, and 4...and I'm sitting there like I'm at my workplace computer watching someone rob my house via my Internet-connected security cameras....well, I just sat there and wondered HOW it was going to happen. Not IF. HOW.

The Raiders adjusted. Period. They got HAMMERED by our defense in Quarter 1, and then it clicked in their head: Just kick field goals; the Texans will crumble under the pressure. And that's what they did. They made sure they did just enough to nickel and dime their way into FG range for The Janitor. Bang. Did it again. Bang. Bang. Bang. I think he had 4 FGs. 12 points, IIRC. You might survive one gunshot to the body. But four? Nope.

Our guy didn't adjust. He kept trying to run on an 8-man front. His only success with Arian Foster was to use the swing pass to Arian. It worked beautifully two times, and we needed more of that.

Our guy didn't have a designed play to target Foster or OD with 7 seconds left in the game. You always put your QB in position to have those superstars get the ball. It's what they do. If THAT play isn't there, throw it away and get one more shot. Simple.

I won't hang this on an injury to Mario. Nor on Vickers dropping a sure TD, since there were so many other things (for both teams) that impacted the game.

One coach find a way to win. Another found a way to lose.

(Sigh)

I am not happy. My current status is: Pissed off at the coaching and/or lack of in-game adjustments. Inability to beat a team like the Raiders in our own house. Kubiak is jinxed, IMO. And then we've got Wade Phillips waiting in the wings IF he gets axed. Yay. It is such a kick in the nuts to be a fan of this team.

Yeah great...... Whatever....... **** OFF!!!!


How were your accomadations, the food, restaurants, the people.... H-Town rocked, no?? The football team, not so much!!

SMH!!! :pirate:

Runner
10-10-2011, 10:34 PM
Never mind.

Lucky
10-10-2011, 10:49 PM
Ask Bob McNair if he really cares what John Clayton tosses out.
Ask Bob McNair if he knows what a playoff game looks like.

I can't wait for Cowher to show up here.
I knew we would eventually agree on something.
I'm actually surprised someone didn't beat me to my own "Go To Post"
No one wants to deprive you of your moment.

There's "national speculation" because even outsiders can see the Texans falling into the same .500 rut. I don't know about 5-7 this year. It has more of 6-6 feel to me. Which will probably "earn" Kubiak an extension. Maybe he can fire the offensive coordinator and the special teams coach, this time? We know it's never Gary's fault.

Corrosion
10-10-2011, 10:52 PM
You're right...lets re-sign him to a life long contract. After all when you're a head coach in the national football league who in their right mind actually cares about on the field results. Nothing is ever his fault.
This goes beyond the Raiders game, it's his knack that no matter what happens with this team, they always find a way to lose games instead of finding ways to win them and in this league you're judged by wins only. Fair or not. Injuries aren't a excuse for him.

Im not making excuses for Kubiak , just pointing out that had Rackers made that FG he missed ..... they dont have to score a TD to win , they had a gimmie range FG that would have won the game.

You cant blame everything on the coach and everyone looks for a scapegoat after each and every loss ..... Shit , they are 3-2 and tied for the division lead .... you want to blame someone , blame Rackers for his missed FG or Vickers for dropping a ball that hit him in the hands with no one within 10 yards of him ....

Games in the NFL are decided by one or two plays .... go back and think about the two plays that had the most impact.

infantrycak
10-10-2011, 10:54 PM
Our guy didn't have a designed play to target Foster or OD with 7 seconds left in the game. You always put your QB in position to have those superstars get the ball.

The play was designed to go to the right but Schaub got flushed left and had to ad lib.

nero THE zero
10-10-2011, 10:59 PM
This is going to look pretty silly when we are sitting at 11-5 or 12-4 heading into the playoffs

Lucky
10-10-2011, 11:01 PM
This is going to look pretty silly when we are sitting at 11-5 or 12-4 heading into the playoffs
Why so negative? The Texans can still finish 14-2.

disaacks3
10-10-2011, 11:10 PM
We make the playoff's, he stays. We miss the playoff's, he goes. No use cramping up your fingers typing about it untill one of those things happens. THIS

Yeah great...... Whatever....... **** OFF!!!!


How were your accomadations, the food, restaurants, the people.... H-Town rocked, no?? The football team, not so much!!

SMH!!! :pirate: Now, now, there's more than a few grains of truth in his analysis. No AJ, no MW, but this game was WINNABLE. The QB and the HC didn't show up when it counted.

Corrosion
10-10-2011, 11:13 PM
The play was designed to go to the right but Schaub got flushed left and had to ad lib.

Yep , just another play where the Raiders DL was the decising factor ..... forcing Schaub away from his first and second reads .... only to have to look for JJ.
I also thought after re-watching that play several times that JJ could have given Schaub a better look by breaking tward the back pylon rather than coming back across the field with the defender playing under ....


I dont know why its so hard to give the other guy his due .... do we have to over criticize every loss like this ?

Damn Raiders DL was downright dominant , they deserved to win the game.

Hervoyel
10-10-2011, 11:20 PM
No AJ , No MW .... a game dominated by the Raiders DL .... and the Texans were a missed FG by Rackers away from winning 26-25 instead of losing 25-20 ..... but lets blame Kubiak.

Dude, it's Gary's machine. He built it. If it's not deep enough in places, can't overcome injuries, can't make adjustments or execute the game plan then who do you turn to?

The man has had 6 drafts to build this thing. He's had three defensive coordinators, I've lost count of how many offensive coordinators, and a number of highly regarded assistants (Gibbs, Rhodes, Sherman). The road to .500 is right in front of us.... again....

It's his. For better or worse it's his. It's past time for Gary to join the ranks of "them that's been fired". He's been a member of "them that's gonna get fired" long enough.

Lucky
10-10-2011, 11:23 PM
Damn Raiders DL was downright dominant , they deserved to win the game.
The Texans defense wasn't just as dominant? They held the league's leading rusher to 51 yards and didn't allow a 1st down for the opening 28 minutes of the game. They didn't deserve the win?

Look, the speculation isn't due to single loss. It's a result of a 6 year career filled with losses like this one.

thunderkyss
10-10-2011, 11:50 PM
Yep , just another play where the Raiders DL was the decising factor ..... forcing Schaub away from his first and second reads .... only to have to look for JJ.
I also thought after re-watching that play several times that JJ could have given Schaub a better look by breaking tward the back pylon rather than coming back across the field with the defender playing under ....


I dont know why its so hard to give the other guy his due .... do we have to over criticize every loss like this ?

Damn Raiders DL was downright dominant , they deserved to win the game.

So with the game on the line, the DB playing under, we blame the WR for the QB trying to throw a ball through the defender?

Look, all kinds of goofy shit happened in that game. But when the clock hit 0:00, the ball was in the QBs hands. Forget the missed field goals, forget the wasted time-outs, forget the 10 yard cushions.. it comes down to that moment.

Our QB decided to try to throw a ball through a defender & we blame Jacoby?

Had Matt Lobed it up over the pylon for Jacoby to go get it, I could agree with you. Had Schaub tried to lob it over the defender for Jacoby to jump or have a fighting chance at... I could agree with you.

But you said yourself, there was a defender between JJ & Matt & he shot putted it straight at the defender expecting Jacoby to do what? play through him? Jump over him? There aren't really any options for JJ when the ball is hovering in the air on the other side of a defender.

& if you watched that play.. repeatedly, you'd have seen that the DB was not playing "under" He was on top of Jacoby in the back of the endzone after Jacoby pushed him up there... when Matt started running, Jacoby runs back to him, towards the front of the endzone. There is no one between Matt & Jacoby. He gets to the front of the endzone & breaks to Matt's right, as Matt breaks to his left. The ball is still in Matt's hands for some reason. Jacoby backpedals to the back of the endzone when the defender finally cuts in front of him... probably expecting a lob.

Everything you're saying Jacoby "should have done" he did. The ball didn't leave Matt's hand until Jacoby was out of position for the optimum play. & when it did, Matt put the ball in the one place he should have known not to put the ball.

Hervoyel
10-11-2011, 12:06 AM
Matt thought "Jacoby's fast.... like The Flash! He can vibrate his molecules at a high rate of speed and reach through Huff, catching the ball, then vibrating it's molecules allowing him to pull it in through Huff's torso! I don't think that's a penalty..... is it?"

then he threw the ball because time was out and he thought Jacoby's super powers would kick in and resolve everything in a satisfactory manner.

Simple mistake. Anybody could have made it.

noxiousdog
10-11-2011, 12:17 AM
Losing to the Raiders at home...something playoff teams really shouldn't do. probably

The Packers seemed to do OK last year after missing key players. I'm not calling this team the Packers, but I didn't see those guys making any excuses. All they did was step up and win.

They did lose 6 regular season games, including a home loss to the Dolphins.

BSofA04
10-11-2011, 12:27 AM
Let me just put this out there...

Kubiak could be on the brink of losing this team. Everyone knows that it's playoffs or the door for Kubiak. If we get blown out in Baltimore, this promising season could start getting ugly. The Baltimore game could be Kubiak's most important game of his career. A win revitalizes a fanbase and personnel. A loss could cast doubts in the locker room.

Either:
Will Kubiak ever lead us to an improvable victory? Are we snake-bitten? 2010 all over again?

Or..

We can win these tough, grind it out road games. We can be a playoff team. We can do this.

I really think that in February, we will look at the Baltimore game as either saving Kubiak's job or as the beginning of the end for him. Considering his track record, this won't end well. JMO.

Hervoyel
10-11-2011, 12:29 AM
Let me just put this out there...

Kubiak could be on the brink of losing this team. Everyone knows that it's playoffs or the door for Kubiak. If we get blown out in Baltimore, this promising season could start getting ugly. The Baltimore game could be Kubiak's most important game of his career. A win revitalizes a fanbase and personnel. A loss could cast doubts in the locker room.

I really think that in February, we will look at the Baltimore game as either saving Kubiak's job or as the beginning of the end for him. Considering his track record, this won't end well. JMO.

I think if he loses his job the Oakland game will be the beginning of the end. The Baltimore game will just be another ass beating along the way to the unemployment line.

dtran04
10-11-2011, 12:30 AM
Still wonder what would have happened if the Giants punter had kicked it out of bounds.

The Packers would have missed the playoffs, maybe shook it up, and now would not be the dominating team they are.

houstonspartan
10-11-2011, 12:31 AM
Let me just put this out there...

Kubiak could be on the brink of losing this team. Everyone knows that it's playoffs or the door for Kubiak. If we get blown out in Baltimore, this promising season could start getting ugly. The Baltimore game could be Kubiak's most important game of his career. A win revitalizes a fanbase and personnel. A loss could cast doubts in the locker room.

Will Kubiak ever lead us to an improvable victory? Are we snake-bitten? 2010 all over again? OR..

We can win these tough, grind it out road games. We can be a playoff team. We can do this.

I really think that in February, we will look at the Baltimore game as either saving Kubiak's job or as the beginning of the end for him. Considering his track record, this won't end well. JMO.

Nah. These guys really love Kubak. They won't ever quit on him. The issue has been Kubiak's game management, talent scouting and overall coaching.

BSofA04
10-11-2011, 12:38 AM
Nah. These guys really love Kubak. They won't ever quit on him. The issue has been Kubiak's game management, talent scouting and overall coaching.
Another close loss and it's easy to imagine that 2010 will be in the back of their minds. Next thing to go is their confidence. Take that away, and we're a team full of Kareem Jacksons.

80tothezone
10-11-2011, 12:39 AM
given the injuries anx how raiders been playin. It was pretty much a toss up as to who would win. I think i might have said as much on here. We lost due to sub terrible line play plain and simple don't read too much into one loss we will have plenty of time ro discuss the losses at the end of the season. 3-2 is about ehat i expected even before knowing whether mario would work out as an olb. I still got us at 11-5 easily making the playoffs.

Vinny
10-11-2011, 12:42 AM
given the injuries anx how raiders been playin. It was pretty much a toss up as to who would win. I think i might have said as much on here. We lost due to sub terrible line play plain and simple don't read too much into one loss we will have plenty of time ro discuss the losses at the end of the season. 3-2 is about ehat i expected even before knowing whether mario would work out as an olb. I still got us at 11-5 easily making the playoffs.
I don't see how this team is going to go 9-3 without Mario and AJ. Every single year it happens....once teams get the Texans on film for a few games Kubiak's offense always seems to suffer in clutch situations right around now. It's like clockwork.

TexCanada
10-11-2011, 12:53 AM
The likelihood of Kubes getting fired is slim, and if he does, Wade would be the most likely replacement. There is no way that Bob would get rid of Wade, and any new HC would likely want to bring in their own guys, wouldn't they? Sadly, I think this coaching staff is here for the long haul.

TheMatrix31
10-11-2011, 01:02 AM
Let me just put this out there...

Kubiak could be on the brink of losing this team. Everyone knows that it's playoffs or the door for Kubiak. If we get blown out in Baltimore, this promising season could start getting ugly. The Baltimore game could be Kubiak's most important game of his career. A win revitalizes a fanbase and personnel. A loss could cast doubts in the locker room.

Either:
Will Kubiak ever lead us to an improvable victory? Are we snake-bitten? 2010 all over again?

Or..

We can win these tough, grind it out road games. We can be a playoff team. We can do this.

I really think that in February, we will look at the Baltimore game as either saving Kubiak's job or as the beginning of the end for him. Considering his track record, this won't end well. JMO.

If Kubiak does indeed get fired, the Baltimore game wouldn't be viewed as the beginning of the end for him. That most likely happened somewhere in 2009.

2BCF
10-11-2011, 01:08 AM
Cowher should have been here the second week of January. :toropalm:

If that had happened, he'd somehow be on the IR list by now.
"Cowher bumps head exiting locker room"

Lucky
10-11-2011, 01:09 AM
If Kubiak does indeed get fired, the Baltimore game wouldn't be viewed as the beginning of the end for him. That most likely happened somewhere in 2009.
You know, Kubiak received an extension after the 2009 season.

houstonspartan
10-11-2011, 01:10 AM
I don't see how this team is going to go 9-3 without Mario and AJ. Every single year it happens....once teams get the Texans on film for a few games Kubiak's offense always seems to suffer in clutch situations right around now. It's like clockwork.

Yep. I call it the late-October-early-November slide. We do it every...single...year.

Ckw
10-11-2011, 01:27 AM
Aaaaaaaaagggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

That is the sound of me screaming in agony as I come to the realization I root for an inept franchise with fans that somehow continue to support loserdom led by Barney Fife himself aka Gary Kubiak. Then if we do finally get rid of Goober Gary, we'll no doubt be bringing in Paul Blart Mall Cop aka Wade Phillips.

Dammit Bob!!!! Stop ****ing hiring coordinators as head ****ing coaches!! Wade: great defensive coordinator, bad head coach. Gary: good offensive coordinator, terrible head coach. Dom: very good defensive coordinator, terrible head coach.

What have we done to deserve such a curse by the football gods?!?!?!?!

thunderkyss
10-11-2011, 01:31 AM
Aaaaaaaaagggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

That is the sound of me screaming in agony as I come to the realization I root for an inept franchise with fans that somehow continue to support loserdom led by Barney Fife himself aka Gary Kubiak. Then if we do finally get rid of Goober Gary, we'll no doubt be bringing in Paul Blart Mall Cop aka Wade Phillips.

Dammit Bob!!!! Stop ****ing hiring coordinators as head ****ing coaches!! Wade: great defensive coordinator, bad head coach. Gary: good offensive coordinator, terrible head coach.

What have we done to deserve such a curse by the football gods?!?!?!?!

When we made it through the offseason with both Gary & Rick Smith.... I didn't know what to say.

But if things go South & we put together a 3 game losing streak, I think Bob will fire Gary & Wade will be the coach through the end of the year.

If we still don't make the play-offs (I think Bob believes we're talented enough) I don't think Wade stays... not that Bob will fire him, but McNair will bring in another coach & Wade won't stick around for that. He'll get a job on his own.

houstonspartan
10-11-2011, 01:37 AM
When we made it through the offseason with both Gary & Rick Smith.... I didn't know what to say.

But if things go South & we put together a 3 game losing streak, I think Bob will fire Gary & Wade will be the coach through the end of the year.

If we still don't make the play-offs (I think Bob believes we're talented enough) I don't think Wade stays... not that Bob will fire him, but McNair will bring in another coach & Wade won't stick around for that. He'll get a job on his own.

Yup. I have always said that if we go on our normal November swoon, Bob will fire Gary by mid-November and Wade will take over.

I don't think NFL owners care any more about firing the head coach in the middle of the season. Several did it last year.

Brisco_County
10-11-2011, 01:47 AM
This isn't about a five-game progress report. This is about the same fatal flaws coming to the surface after five years of being assured they would be ironed out.

After three quarters and five bourbon shots into the Raiders game, I was raving and cussing to anyone within earshot about our QB, our unprepared line, and the absurdity of making critical errors within a system they've been running for five years. Each starter should be able to teach a college course on the Shanahan offense by now, but when under pressure, they (mostly Schaub) make mistakes as if they learned it yesterday.

By the end of the game, I ended up doing something I've never done before-- I walked out of the last five minutes. My friends were surprised, but I know this team well enough to know how it would end. Even if the Texans won, I wouldn't have been much relieved, because my disappointment was not about this one L or W; It was about the demoralizing revelation that this is still the same Texans team we've always known, and convinced ourselves it wouldn't be.

Ckw
10-11-2011, 01:49 AM
When we made it through the offseason with both Gary & Rick Smith.... I didn't know what to say.

But if things go South & we put together a 3 game losing streak, I think Bob will fire Gary & Wade will be the coach through the end of the year.

If we still don't make the play-offs (I think Bob believes we're talented enough) I don't think Wade stays... not that Bob will fire him, but McNair will bring in another coach & Wade won't stick around for that. He'll get a job on his own.

If that happens, which I do really hope we get it turned around and Gary makes me a believer but if it does happen, I sure as hell hope you are right. I'm just not sure how much more I can take. And man, just reading through this thread, as well as others, has been depressing. Reminiscing on all the years of failure, the stupid extension for Gary, having to deal with that moron tapping the podium and protecting his "kids" from any and all media scrutiny, etc. That could drive a man to an early grace.

houstonspartan
10-11-2011, 01:50 AM
This isn't about a five-game progress report. This is about the same fatal flaws coming to the surface after five years of being assured they would be ironed out.

After three quarters and five bourbon shots into the Raiders game, I was raving and cussing to anyone within earshot about our QB, our unprepared line, and the absurdity of making critical errors within a system they've been running for five years. Each starter should be able to teach a college course on the Shanahan offense by now, but when under pressure, they (mostly Schaub) make mistakes as if they learned it yesterday.

By the end of the game, I ended up doing something I've never done before-- I walked out of the last five minutes. My friends were surprised, but I know this team well enough to know how it would end. Even if the Texans won, I wouldn't have been much relieved, because my disappointment was not about this one L or W; It was about the demoralizing revelation that this is still the same Texans team we've always known, and convinced ourselves it wouldn't be.

Yep. And take that one step further and look at the whole Jacoby Jones issue. Dude has been a professional NFL player for four years, and we're still waiting for him to "take the next step." That's ridiculus.

GP
10-11-2011, 02:27 AM
The play was designed to go to the right but Schaub got flushed left and had to ad lib.

I recognize that, which is why I didn't say "Why did we have Schaub rolling out to his left?" I am competent enough to remember (I was there, I should know) that he had been pressured to his left and that's when things got wonky.

My problem with what happened is that we had 7 seconds left. You hike the ball, you roll in a direction (obviously to the same side you throw from) and you throw it away if there's nothing there. Schaub didn't do that. Instead, he chose to make THAT play work no matter what. He knew he had screwed the pooch by scrambling too long, and he choked.

The Raiders player, though a bit tacky, was telling the truth. Dude choked. If that pisses off some people, oh well. He did. Tough beans. Choke City.

But Schaub is supposed to be better than that. More clear-headed than that. For all the pissing and moaning about Jacoby Jones (who DID have an awful game, I won't deny it or mask it) there's also some blame to go to a guy who had somewhere around 7 passes batted down, had 2 or 3 Doh! moments that gift-wrapped points AND the game to the Raiders.

Gary Kubiak AND his offense (which means all his "kids") really sucked out there. Minus the two TEs, we did shit. Oh, except for two swing passes to Arian Foster that worked like magic because the run game was going nowhere.

Teams have us nailed. If you play the Texans, you just ride it out and stay close, and watch the Texans choke and give the game away in the second half. Last year, we couldn't score in the first half and would come on like gang busters. This year, we come on like gang busters in the first half and can't do anything in the second half. After 5+ years of this, it's become frustrating to know what's going to happen and to WISH to God that it won't happen again. But it does. Again, and again, and again.

I don't even know who to be mad at, really. Kubiak? Yeah. Schaub? Yeah? Injuries to key players on both sides? Yeah. Knowing Wade Phillips inherits the team if Kubiak is fired? Yeah. Watching patterns happen over and over again? Yeah. Waking up on Sundays and having butterflies in my stomach as I watch the game and wonder "How in the world can we eff up THIS TIME?" Yeah. Being pleased when we win a game, but knowing losses are going to mount up faster than Charlie Sheen can mount a hooker while on crack? Yeah.

This whole thing is just perplexing, maddening, comical and sublime for me. We don't deserve one ounce of "love" from any Sports Media talking head. We just let the Raiders come into Reliant and take it over after having wiped the field with their butts the entire first quarter. Quarters 2, 3, and 4 were pitiful and unacceptable for a head coach who is in YEAR SIX here.

Andre Johnson and Arian Foster, IMO, could make a competent head coach a pretty nice living and fill the guy's trophy case too.

Corrosion
10-11-2011, 02:57 AM
The Texans defense wasn't just as dominant? They held the league's leading rusher to 51 yards and didn't allow a 1st down for the opening 28 minutes of the game. They didn't deserve the win?

Look, the speculation isn't due to single loss. It's a result of a 6 year career filled with losses like this one.

The Texans defense actually put up better numbers than the Raiders did .... Schaub threw for better than 400 yards with 2 TD's and ..... 2 INT's.


Their kicker .... didnt miss.



Matt put the ball in the one place he should have known not to put the ball.

Thats the bottom line .... Schaub put the ball in the absolute worst place he could have ..... in the hands of the defender.

My point was .... what if which really dont matter ..... Schaub screwed the pooch on that play.



As for all the hate on Gary ..... The talent level in the NFL is very close between the best and worst teams. You take away the teams best offensive player , the teams best defensive player , lose the turnover battle , have the kicker miss a reasonable FG ..... and still have a shot to win on the final play of the game ?


People expect miracles from the man ...



That was just another of those .... whacky Houston games , seems like no matter who the hell is coaching or what sport it is , Houston teams are cursed.

DexmanC
10-11-2011, 03:07 AM
That's it, it's over pack it in boys. The fat lady has sung its all over five games in to the season. We've lost to a top five team in the Saints, and an up and coming inspired team, wow we outta just give up now.


This is F-ing B*llsh*t, we are five games in to the season, if the season were over right now with our winning percentage we'd be 10 and 6, so until we are 5 and 7 I'm not gonna panic.

COME ON MAN!!! These pundits are douche nozzles.


Good teams don't big-up their opponents' accomplishments when they
lose. Why do you, as a Texans fan, feel compelled to do so?

DexmanC
10-11-2011, 03:15 AM
The Texans defense actually put up better numbers than the Raiders did .... Schaub threw for better than 400 yards with 2 TD's and ..... 2 INT's.


Their kicker .... didnt miss.



Thats the bottom line .... Schaub put the ball in the absolute worst place he could have ..... in the hands of the defender.

My point was .... what if which really dont matter ..... Schaub screwed the pooch on that play.



As for all the hate on Gary ..... The talent level in the NFL is very close between the best and worst teams. You take away the teams best offensive player , the teams best defensive player , lose the turnover battle , have the kicker miss a reasonable FG ..... and still have a shot to win on the final play of the game ?


People expect miracles from the man ...



That was just another of those .... whacky Houston games , seems like no matter who the hell is coaching or what sport it is , Houston teams are cursed.

People are judging Gary by his ENTIRE TENURE. What's wrong with that?

GP
10-11-2011, 03:39 AM
People are judging Gary by his ENTIRE TENURE. What's wrong with that?

1. Gary judged Carr to be a possible late-bloomer and just needed his help. Wrong.

2. Gary judged Schaub to be a better option for the Texans. Also turning out to be wrong.

3. Gary judged Richard Smith to be a good option as his first d-coord. Wrong.

4. He then judged Frank Bush, an internal hire, to be a better choice as DC. Wrong.

5. Gary formulates the weekly game plan/strategy for his offense, and intervenes on game days whenever he wants to.

6. Gary, in 6 years of rebuilding this team, has a 9-win season as his crowning achievement.

7. Gary has been the head coach for 6 years and holds certain distinctions that are very unflattering for him, and for this teams, and for its fans.

To me, I cannot just say that Gary is on the shitty end of the stick after a day like we had this past Sunday.

It was not a peculiar and weird scene to witness what we witnessed this past Sunday. It was actually NORMAL, standard operating procedure. It was the norm. It's like water, it seeks its own level and you can't stop it...you can delay it, but you cannot stop it completely. You can patch the boat, but the water will find a way into it.

Water is relentless and it's not going to stop until it has found bottom. Gary is trying to find bottom, as well...but someone keeps plugging those holes, spraying the sealer foam into the cracks and crevices, thinking that the vessel can be saved.

Has nobody found it ironic that the day that the Raiders inconceivably found a way to beat us with a field goal kicker and Jacoby Jones, in our own house, just happened to coincide with a torrential FLOOD of water upon the roof of Reliant that same day? Is that an omen?

There is a rain cloud over this team, just as there was a rain cloud this past Sunday over Reliant, and the rain just kept pouring down. All day. You thought it would stop, then it start up again. And it pounded the area relentlessly.

I think Stevie Ray Vaughn said it best:

Well there's floodin' down in Texas
All of the telephone lines are down
Well there's floodin' down in Texas
All of the telephone lines are down
And I've been tryin' to call my baby
Lord and I can't get a single sound

Well dark clouds are rollin' in
Man I'm standin' out in the rain
Well dark clouds are rollin' in
Man I'm standin' out in the rain
Yeah flood water keep a rollin'
Man it's about to drive poor me insane

Well I'm leavin' you baby
Lord and I'm goin' back home to stay
Well I'm leavin' you baby
Lord and I'm goin' back home to stay
Well back home are no floods or tornados
Baby and the sun shines every day

Dishman
10-11-2011, 07:04 AM
Starting last November, the Texans finished a disappointing 6-10 season by losing five games that were decided by seven points or fewer.

Hmm, it's like were doomed under Kubiak to always be 6-10 somewhere.

Dishman
10-11-2011, 07:11 AM
I can't wait for Cowher to show up here. I give it about a season and a half before you guys claim you never wanted him.

At least at that point we won't further suffer the Cowher cult of personality as he will be brutally exposed without a world class GM like he had in Pitt.

Lets hope Rick Smith is shown the door, too.

Cerberus
10-11-2011, 08:18 AM
The Texans defense wasn't just as dominant? They held the league's leading rusher to 51 yards and didn't allow a 1st down for the opening 28 minutes of the game. They didn't deserve the win?

Look, the speculation isn't due to single loss. It's a result of a 6 year career filled with losses like this one.

Yes, the Texans D was dominant; even Hue Jackson said it was probably the best D the Raiders have played this season. Where the Texans lost the game was Special Teams, i.e., Janokowski, blocked-punt, fake punt, etc. . . .

Thorn
10-11-2011, 08:19 AM
This is going to look pretty silly when we are sitting at 11-5 or 12-4 heading into the playoffs


I would love to look silly at that point, believe me. Crow would never taste so good. But it would appear the Texans haven't changed, despite a better defense. What do you want me to believe? The cold hard facts before our eyes, or wishfull thinking?

As I've said before, I'll continue to watch and hope like I always do.

Texan_Bill
10-11-2011, 08:21 AM
THIS

Now, now, there's more than a few grains of truth in his analysis. No AJ, no MW, but this game was WINNABLE. The QB and the HC didn't show up when it counted.

Meh... I just wish "tongue in cheek" would translate better on a message board. :toropalm:

thunderkyss
10-11-2011, 10:02 AM
I recognize that, which is why I didn't say "Why did we have Schaub rolling out to his left?" I am competent enough to remember (I was there, I should know) that he had been pressured to his left and that's when things got wonky.

My problem with what happened is that we had 7 seconds left. You hike the ball, you roll in a direction (obviously to the same side you throw from) and you throw it away if there's nothing there. Schaub didn't do that. Instead, he chose to make THAT play work no matter what. He knew he had screwed the pooch by scrambling too long, and he choked.

The Raiders player, though a bit tacky, was telling the truth. Dude choked. If that pisses off some people, oh well. He did. Tough beans. Choke City.

But Schaub is supposed to be better than that. More clear-headed than that.

What's funny... if you've got a twisted sense of Texans'-fan humor... is that they called the right play. I watched that replay... the entire final drive 8 times last night. Matt was really on his game for those 2 minutes, up until that play.

I don't know if it was the same play as the earlier Walter touchdown, but it looked awful similar. Walter crossed in front of Schaub's face, in front of the defender who was no closer than the defender was on the Walter touchdown. I don't know why Schaub didn't throw the ball. Walter was poised to make that play & all Schaub had to do was put it out ahead of him & let him go get it.

Dressen was coming off the other side, crossing right in front of Schaub, his defender a little tighter, but at that time, you've got to trust somebody to make a play.

He had time, it was several seconds later when Matt decided to flush left.

I have no idea why he didn't pull the trigger. Maybe he was shell shocked with all the batted balls... Most likely he saw something I couldn't see.. but it was the right play

Hervoyel
10-11-2011, 10:38 AM
The Texans defense actually put up better numbers than the Raiders did .... Schaub threw for better than 400 yards with 2 TD's and ..... 2 INT's.


Their kicker .... didnt miss.



Thats the bottom line .... Schaub put the ball in the absolute worst place he could have ..... in the hands of the defender.

My point was .... what if which really dont matter ..... Schaub screwed the pooch on that play.



As for all the hate on Gary ..... The talent level in the NFL is very close between the best and worst teams. You take away the teams best offensive player , the teams best defensive player , lose the turnover battle , have the kicker miss a reasonable FG ..... and still have a shot to win on the final play of the game ?


People expect miracles from the man ...



That was just another of those .... whacky Houston games , seems like no matter who the hell is coaching or what sport it is , Houston teams are cursed.


It doesn't take a miracle to get into the playoffs (if it does then even Marvin Lewis has a divine moment or two every now and then) and if the talent level between the best and worst is so very close then why does it take 6 years of retooling to go from 2-14 to whatever we're going to be this year?

I don't believe in curses. I believe that for most of Gary's tenure here we've had first time owners hiring first time head coaches and first time GM's who then go on to hire first time coordinators over and over again.

Wade isn't a first time DC and the defense appears to be coming together quite nicely. We spent 5 years watching newbs try to put something together instead of just paying for a man who knew how to do it. On offense Gary's always ultimately been the coordinator so the offense hasn't been a great, ghastly mess but it's clear that where he falls short are in things that fall mostly on the HC. Being prepared for a game, maintaining focus and intensity, clock management, knowing when to put the pedal down and when to ease up. He can call a series of plays like nobody's business but much like Wade playing HC and seeing his defense suffer Gary is playing head coach and his offense suffers.

I don't have a lot of animosity towards the man. I'm just tired of repeating this damn experiment. How many times do we have to do this before Bob gets the message? Time to hire an experienced HC and get on with this before Andre Johnson starts drawing Social Security.

El Tejano
10-11-2011, 10:46 AM
How quick when we start losing but you couldn't hear a word on The Texans when we were winning. C'mon Texans beat The Ravens so we can end this crap.

Vinny
10-11-2011, 10:47 AM
How quick when we start losing but you couldn't hear a word on The Texans when we were winning. C'mon Texans beat The Ravens so we can end this crap.
when were we "winning"? Until this team does something different, it's doing the same thing.

PhilpW
10-11-2011, 10:53 AM
Losing to the Raiders at home...something playoff teams really shouldn't do. probably

The Packers seemed to do OK last year after missing key players. I'm not calling this team the Packers, but I didn't see those guys making any excuses. All they did was step up and win.

Agreed, quality playoff teams don't lose home games to a team like the Raiders. This is what's typical of the Houston Texans.

Surreal McCoy
10-11-2011, 10:57 AM
Yes, the Texans D was dominant; even Hue Jackson said it was probably the best D the Raiders have played this season. Where the Texans lost the game was Special Teams, i.e., Janokowski, blocked-punt, fake punt, etc. . . .

We're sorry, this post doesn't fit the TT narrative. Please edit accordingly.

Kind regards,
The Mgmt

Double Barrel
10-11-2011, 11:04 AM
http://www.sonicvoodoo.com/DejaVu.jpg

Okay, two things:

Where is there any evidence that Bob will fire Gary if we don't make the playoffs this year? It's an assumption by fans, but there has been absolutely no credible evidence that Gary will be fired based on that condition. I can see built-in excuses based upon history. Lock-out, new DC, injured star players, yada yada yada...

So if you have any solid proof of that "fire Gary condition", please share it so I can actually have something to look forward to during the playoff season.

Second, I've got a running bet with my buddy. After the 0-16 Lions season, he said the Lions would get to the payoffs before the Texans. That's a suckers bet (for him, I assumed), so I took it. WHO LOOKS LIKE THE FOOL NOW???

Seriously, if I lose a bet because the 0-16 Lions were able to make it to the playoffs before the Texans, I'm not quite sure WTF I'm supposed to think...well, except for firing every incompetent person on this staff, which would included everyone except for the one that can't be fired.

I like how people are dogging Cowher. You know why I like it? Because it shows me the ones who are just ignorant of football, and I can then just disregard your football takes. Does 108-1-1 mean anything to you folks? That's Cowher's record as a HC when his teams have led by 11 points in games. Hint: you can be impressed now.

1-19? That's Gary's road record against winning teams. Defend it, homers. :fingergun:

Vinny
10-11-2011, 11:07 AM
1-19? That's Gary's road record against winning teams. Defend it, homers. :fingergun: You expect perfection! Give him some time! We are on the right path! Two legs good, four legs better!

Big Valley
10-11-2011, 11:07 AM
http://fapit.net/imgs/1020/DejaVu.jpg

Okay, two things:

Where is there any evidence that Bob will fire Gary if we don't make the playoffs this year? It's an assumption by fans, but there has been absolutely no credible evidence that Gary will be fired based on that condition. I can see built-in excuses based upon history. Lock-out, new DC, injured star players, yada yada yada...

So if you have any solid proof of that "fire Gary condition", please share it so I can actually have something to look forward to during the playoff season.

Second, I've got a running bet with my buddy. After the 0-16 Lions season, he said the Lions would get to the payoffs before the Texans. That's a suckers bet (for him, I assumed), so I took it. WHO LOOKS LIKE THE FOOL NOW???

Seriously, if I lose a bet because the 0-16 Lions were able to make it to the playoffs before the Texans, I'm not quite sure WTF I'm supposed to think...well, except for firing every incompetent person on this staff, which would included everyone except for the one that can't be fired.

I like how people are dogging Cowher. You know why I like it? Because it shows me the ones who are just ignorant of football, and I can then just disregard your football takes. Does 108-1-1 mean anything to you folks? That's Cowher's record as a HC when his teams have led by 11 points in games. Hint: you can be impressed now.

1-19? That's Gary's road record against winning teams. Defend it, homers. :fingergun:


Dayum.:koolaid:

Dutchrudder
10-11-2011, 11:12 AM
How is Wade Phillips not in the conversation for head coach? He's the logical choice for McNair, and a promotion to head coach would be a lot cheaper than hiring Cowher or Gruden. Not that I support a Wade as HC, but c'mon, this is McNair we're talking about.

hollywood_texan
10-11-2011, 11:13 AM
That's it, it's over pack it in boys. The fat lady has sung its all over five games in to the season. We've lost to a top five team in the Saints, and an up and coming inspired team, wow we outta just give up now.


This is F-ing B*llsh*t, we are five games in to the season, if the season were over right now with our winning percentage we'd be 10 and 6, so until we are 5 and 7 I'm not gonna panic.

COME ON MAN!!! These pundits are douche nozzles.

I am over here in Afghanistan trying to keep up with things, and the Texans are following the same old script. Which I thought I was fine with, until I saw ESPN's postgame of the Lions Monday night game. I don't get to watch much TV except at the DFAC (which is the term used for the cafeteria in the army). The coverage was that the Lions are turning the corner. Meanwhile, we are into our 10th season with the same pattern. I was getting upset like I did several years ago. I thought I was over it, resigned to the fact of Kubiak and our owner, McNair. I guess I still have some more stuff to get over.

However, I have a SSG over here, that is die hard Vikings fan, and he said at the beginning of the season, the Texans would start off the season at 8-4 for the first 12 games. He says I should not be concerned at this point. He says that, mark it down, it is a done deal. But, keep in mind he also told me that he would need an escort to see the Chaplin if the Vikings blew another huge lead last Sunday.

It seems like the only thing I am missing on my season tickets is the tailgating.

See you guys next season at Reliant and let's hope things change for the better before I get there.

I will be at the Vikings game next year with that SSG that is diehard Vikings fan!!!

Oh well....:toropalm:

HTown2ATX
10-11-2011, 11:17 AM
1-19? That's Gary's road record against winning teams. Defend it, homers. :fingergun:

Well you just don't know football.....WE'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK.....YOU'RE A RADIO SHOW CALLER.........DURRRRP DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP

http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/shared/characters/adults/skeeter.jpg

:sarcasm:

bckey
10-11-2011, 11:42 AM
We make the playoff's, he stays. We miss the playoff's, he goes. No use cramping up your fingers typing about it untill one of those things happens.

What is troubling about that is that the Texans will probably stumble into the playoffs just because the state of their division. So should Kubiak stay if they go any where from 7-9 to 9-7 and make the playoffs? And lose the first game? They would have accomplished nothing but you can bet it would be celebrated like the Texans won the superbowl. And so goes life as a Texans fan. I have to sit here and watch other franchises turn around like San Fran, Detroit, Buffalo. It can be done just not in Houston with an owner who is clueless about football and fans that celebrate the tiniest of baby steps even when they are backwards.

What makes the future look even worse down the road for the Texans is the fact that Andrew Luck could end up on the Colts. That would be all 3 opponents in our division with 1st round qbs. Gabbert with the Jags, Locker with the Titans and Manning/Luck with the Colts.

TexCanada
10-11-2011, 11:57 AM
Question. Do cowher and wade have similar defensive philosophies? As in, would they be able to work together?

thunderkyss
10-11-2011, 12:02 PM
What is troubling about that is that the Texans will probably stumble into the playoffs just because the state of their division. So should Kubiak stay if they go any where from 7-9 to 9-7 and make the playoffs? And lose the first game?

If I'm McNair, I'd have already told Gary I expect to see the Texans in the AFC Championship game. With the reputation of our offense & the expectations of a half decent defense, this shouldn't seem like an impossible task... not considering how long we've had these guys together & the money we've spent on Defense.

It would be clear that I love Kubiak & would adopt him if he weren't over 50, but he's going to have to find another job if we don't make it to the AFC Championship game this season.

Failure is not an option (well, you know that's what I'll say, but that's not what I'll mean..... if we have to play Wild-Card weekend & win then play a competitive game in the divisional round, I might let him stay, but it depends on what I see, but if we get a bye & we aren't competitive in our only play-off game, he's toast).

What makes the future look even worse down the road for the Texans is the fact that Andrew Luck could end up on the Colts. That would be all 3 opponents in our division with 1st round qbs. Gabbert with the Jags, Locker with the Titans and Manning/Luck with the Colts.

pssh..... We've got Lienart.

Thorn
10-11-2011, 12:03 PM
I hate to say it, but it's beginning to look like we have another owner who can't win. McNair is a much better person, and certainly a much nicer man that Bud Adams ever was or could be. But still, the results are beginning to look the same. If you can't hire the right folks to run your organization, the organization will fail.

If this is the case, we are in a world of hurt. Again.

Reggie
10-11-2011, 12:08 PM
if one of the 12 reasons we lost this game were different (vickers catch, missed fg, schaub end mess up) then we are 4-1 and everyone is saying that this is our season blahblah
the "national speculation" would be that Kubiak led a team without their best offensive player and without their best defensive player for 3 quarters to a W over a very good team and they are going to the playoffs

all of this speculation is a waste anyway, we are 3-2 through 5 games. anyone on this board would have been happy with that pre-season and most people had us at 3-2 through 5 when they were making all the 11-5 predictions

everyone just relax, cheer on the team, maybe we'll screw around catch a break and get a W in baltimore, if not, thats ok too, take care of business in Tennessee then the pancake schedule begins

Double Barrel
10-11-2011, 12:38 PM
if...

...a frog had wings....?

http://www.chumpysclipart.com/images/illustrations/thumbnail/555_flying_green_and_yellow_spotted_frog_with_ange l_wings.jpg

TdotTexas2Step
10-11-2011, 01:26 PM
Meh. Sometimes that's just the way the media goes about business. They smell blood in the water - even if it's just a drop.

80tothezone
10-11-2011, 02:54 PM
I don't see how this team is going to go 9-3 without Mario and AJ. Every single year it happens....once teams get the Texans on film for a few games Kubiak's offense always seems to suffer in clutch situations right around now. It' like clockwork.

well we can see what happens with reed and Aj is coming back so.....

houstonspartan
10-11-2011, 03:12 PM
http://fapit.net/imgs/1020/DejaVu.jpg

Okay, two things:

Where is there any evidence that Bob will fire Gary if we don't make the playoffs this year? It's an assumption by fans, but there has been absolutely no credible evidence that Gary will be fired based on that condition. I can see built-in excuses based upon history. Lock-out, new DC, injured star players, yada yada yada...

So if you have any solid proof of that "fire Gary condition", please share it so I can actually have something to look forward to during the playoff season.

Second, I've got a running bet with my buddy. After the 0-16 Lions season, he said the Lions would get to the payoffs before the Texans. That's a suckers bet (for him, I assumed), so I took it. WHO LOOKS LIKE THE FOOL NOW???

Seriously, if I lose a bet because the 0-16 Lions were able to make it to the playoffs before the Texans, I'm not quite sure WTF I'm supposed to think...well, except for firing every incompetent person on this staff, which would included everyone except for the one that can't be fired.

I like how people are dogging Cowher. You know why I like it? Because it shows me the ones who are just ignorant of football, and I can then just disregard your football takes. Does 108-1-1 mean anything to you folks? That's Cowher's record as a HC when his teams have led by 11 points in games. Hint: you can be impressed now.

1-19? That's Gary's road record against winning teams. Defend it, homers. :fingergun:

Wow. Me and my dad made a similar bet. He said the Lions would make it before we did.

HTown2ATX
10-11-2011, 03:19 PM
Wow. Me and my dad made a similar bet. He said the Lions would make it before we did.


Don't forget the Bills too the way they are going..... :gun:

Of course "none of this is relevant to the Texans" - :shakeweight:

HOU-TEX
10-11-2011, 03:27 PM
Heck, with Wade already here, bring Bum back.

Dutchrudder
10-11-2011, 03:27 PM
if one of the 12 reasons we lost this game were different (vickers catch, missed fg, schaub end mess up) then we are 4-1 and everyone is saying that this is our season blahblah
the "national speculation" would be that Kubiak led a team without their best offensive player and without their best defensive player for 3 quarters to a W over a very good team and they are going to the playoffs

all of this speculation is a waste anyway, we are 3-2 through 5 games. anyone on this board would have been happy with that pre-season and most people had us at 3-2 through 5 when they were making all the 11-5 predictions

everyone just relax, cheer on the team, maybe we'll screw around catch a break and get a W in baltimore, if not, thats ok too, take care of business in Tennessee then the pancake schedule begins

Do you mean cupcake? I love pancakes and all, but I don't consider them to be a derogatory term. Pancakes can in fact be very manly. Long ago lumberjacks and frontiersman used to make them charred and crusty, which gives pancakes more grit than cupcakes. You never heard of cupcakes being made by big burly men exploring the uncharted territory of the west. In fact, another term for the word cupcake is 'fairy cake', which is probably even more fitting of a term for the back-half of the Texans schedule and also Cortland Finnegan.

Ghostform
10-11-2011, 04:35 PM
What is troubling about that is that the Texans will probably stumble into the playoffs just because the state of their division. So should Kubiak stay if they go any where from 7-9 to 9-7 and make the playoffs? And lose the first game? They would have accomplished nothing but you can bet it would be celebrated like the Texans won the superbowl. And so goes life as a Texans fan. I have to sit here and watch other franchises turn around like San Fran, Detroit, Buffalo. It can be done just not in Houston with an owner who is clueless about football and fans that celebrate the tiniest of baby steps even when they are backwards.

What makes the future look even worse down the road for the Texans is the fact that Andrew Luck could end up on the Colts. That would be all 3 opponents in our division with 1st round qbs. Gabbert with the Jags, Locker with the Titans and Manning/Luck with the Colts.

^ Quoted for truth

hradhak
10-11-2011, 06:02 PM
The way I see it, a great coach gets a better performance out of his team than their innate talent and a bad coach gets less performance out of his talent level.

I think our team has had enough talent throughout the years to be in the playoffs starting in 2009. So far we have fallen flat. I'm not calling for Kubiak's head yet, because I think when you do you give up on the season, and we're certainly not there yet. Kubes doesn't get us into and win at least 1 game in the playoffs, I don't think he should stay on. But again, I'm waiting till the end of the season for that.

Grams
10-11-2011, 06:41 PM
I don't believe in curses.

I do. I watched my Red Sox lose the 7th game of a World Series 3 times.I hope I never meet Bill Buckner. But maybe you have to be a Red Sox fan to believe in 86 years of "bad luck".

We have had - what? 10 years. How long did the Saints wait, how many years have the Lions been irrelavent?

I want to see a proven Head Coach. One who knows how to win - consistanly. One who will light a fire in these guys.

Wade has had his chance as a HC and he is a much better DC. Kubiak is a much better OC than a HC. These guys need to stay were they are the best at and give us a HC that actually knows how to be a HC.

Texecutioner
10-11-2011, 07:01 PM
I do. I watched my Red Sox lose the 7th game of a World Series 3 times.I hope I never meet Bill Buckner. But maybe you have to be a Red Sox fan to believe in 86 years of "bad luck".

We have had - what? 10 years. How long did the Saints wait, how many years have the Lions been irrelavent?

I want to see a proven Head Coach. One who knows how to win - consistanly. One who will light a fire in these guys.

Wade has had his chance as a HC and he is a much better DC. Kubiak is a much better OC than a HC. These guys need to stay were they are the best at and give us a HC that actually knows how to be a HC.

I hasn't been 9 or 10. You have to count the entire existence of the Oilers here and that game we lost to the Bills counted for at least 20 extra years alone. No fan base was ever kicked in the nuts harder than we were when we lost that 32 point lead to the Bills with a team as stacked as the Oilers were at that time. They were supposed to make a SB run that year.

False Start
10-11-2011, 08:13 PM
Already time for this?

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/COWHER2012copy.jpg

phantom17
10-11-2011, 09:24 PM
I hate to say it, but it's beginning to look like we have another owner who can't win. McNair is a much better person, and certainly a much nicer man that Bud Adams ever was or could be. But still, the results are beginning to look the same. If you can't hire the right folks to run your organization, the organization will fail.

If this is the case, we are in a world of hurt. Again.


Thorn- I agree wit this! I think this team need a change in leadership & some GOOD LUCK when it comes to injuries!:toropalm:

RagingBull
10-11-2011, 09:33 PM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFO2crg38j0WQH6Muy5WhTNanya4_uc BvJsGKJ1Du8N1jxxpI4pA

Texan_Bill
10-11-2011, 09:33 PM
I hate to say it, but it's beginning to look like we have another owner who can't win. McNair is a much better person, and certainly a much nicer man that Bud Adams ever was or could be. But still, the results are beginning to look the same. If you can't hire the right folks to run your organization, the organization will fail.

If this is the case, we are in a world of hurt. Again.

Disagree, homes!!

Forget about how Bob is a "good guy".... He truly wants to win, but he doesn't know how to do it just yet!

Granted, I get the early comparisons to Pud Adams, but if you talk about the Oilers as an NFL team, they basically sucked. Yeah, they're were a few years of success (I can remember a couple late 70's/ early 80's and then a 7 year consecutive playoff run of late '80's / mid 90's).... Other than that, there is no comparison! NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!

phantom17
10-11-2011, 09:41 PM
Disagree, homes!!

Forget about how Bob is a "good guy".... He truly wants to win, but he doesn't know how to do it just yet!

Granted, I get the early comparisons to Pud Adams, but if you talk about the Oilers as an NFL team, they basically sucked. Yeah, they're were a few years of success (I can remember a couple late 70's/ early 80's and then a 7 year consecutive playoff run of late '80's / mid 90's).... Other than that, there is no comparison! NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!



Texan Bill- I wanna picture Uncle Bob "steaming mad" & pull a Jerry Jones!:toropalm:

Surreal McCoy
10-11-2011, 09:51 PM
Granted, I get the early comparisons to Pud Adams, but if you talk about the Oilers as an NFL team, they basically sucked. Yeah, they're were a few years of success (I can remember a couple late 70's/ early 80's and then a 7 year consecutive playoff run of late '80's / mid 90's).... Other than that, there is no comparison! NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!

Agreed. I find it odd how folks (mostly younger) look back at the Oilers as a successful franchise when those who lived through it (like you) remember it correctly. Was sad to see the Oilers leave but was happy to be rid of Adams. McNair is a comparative godsend.

Double Barrel
10-12-2011, 12:02 PM
Disagree, homes!!

Forget about how Bob is a "good guy".... He truly wants to win, but he doesn't know how to do it just yet!

Granted, I get the early comparisons to Pud Adams, but if you talk about the Oilers as an NFL team, they basically sucked. Yeah, they're were a few years of success (I can remember a couple late 70's/ early 80's and then a 7 year consecutive playoff run of late '80's / mid 90's).... Other than that, there is no comparison! NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!

Those two periods are when most Houston football fans over 30 fell in love with the sport.

The Texans, on the other hand, have done absolutely nothing to earn the devotion of fans other than just existing.

The Oilers might not have accomplished the ultimate goal, but let's not dismiss the dedication and hard work of some truly great football players. Earl, Elvin Bethea, Bruce Matthews, Mike Munchak, Warren Moon, Carl Mauck, Heywood Jeffries, Earnest Givens, Whiteshoes Johnson, Ray Childress, and on and on.

I think it's pretty well established that I'm no fan of Bud Adams. It's borderline hate for the man. However, I can seperate what I feel for the owner with the fond memories that I have for the Oilers. This town has not felt the excitement of playoff football for almost TWO decades, half of those years occupied by this hapless franchise.

Bob has Bud beat in marketing and consumer satisfaction, but let's be real here, Bob's team has been garbage and Bud's franchise has won more playoff games than the number of years that the Texans have existed. I hate that fact, but it is what it is.

Vinny
10-12-2011, 12:15 PM
Those two periods are when most Houston football fans over 30 fell in love with the sport.

The Texans, on the other hand, have done absolutely nothing to earn the devotion of fans other than just existing.

The Oilers might not have accomplished the ultimate goal, but let's not dismiss the dedication and hard work of some truly great football players. Earl, Elvin Bethea, Bruce Matthews, Mike Munchak, Warren Moon, Carl Mauck, Heywood Jeffries, Earnest Givens, Whiteshoes Johnson, Ray Childress, and on and on.

I think it's pretty well established that I'm no fan of Bud Adams. It's borderline hate for the man. However, I can seperate what I feel for the owner with the fond memories that I have for the Oilers. This town has not felt the excitement of playoff football for almost TWO decades, half of those years occupied by this hapless franchise.

Bob has Bud beat in marketing and consumer satisfaction, but let's be real here, Bob's team has been garbage and Bud's franchise has won more playoff games than the number of years that the Texans have existed. I hate that fact, but it is what it is.
Bud's Oilers won the first two AFL Championships and had a bad period in the early to mid 70's but were a pretty good team that challenged for the playoffs in a TOUGH, TOUGH, TOUGH AFC Central more often than not. I think its easy to just say the Oilers sucked, but they 'sucked' for a few down periods but competed at a high level more often than not. I remember when the Steelers were crushing everyone in their historic prime years, the Oilers always managed to split home and home victories.

Hervoyel
10-12-2011, 12:47 PM
Question. Do cowher and wade have similar defensive philosophies? As in, would they be able to work together?

I'm thinking that they're both 3-4 guys and they both probably "philosophize" that the defense should stop the other team and keep them out of the end zone. I don't think Cowher would have any problem working with a successful DC like Wade.

Wade sounds to me lately like he's accepted that being a great DC is his "first, best destiny". I think he'd be fine with it (but nobody knows for sure).

The big problem would be the offense getting blown up. I'm damn certain that someone like Cowher would not be interested in much of this namby-pamby undersized finesse offensive line that we have. Duane Brown can play for him, probably a couple of other guys and then it would be cleaning house time I bet.

Lucky
10-12-2011, 09:47 PM
The Texans, on the other hand, have done absolutely nothing to earn the devotion of fans other than just existing.
On the field, no. But I think a) allowing tailgating and b) creating the PSL helped develop a devotion. We see the same fans (in the parking lots and in the stands) week in, week out, and have our own "communities". Also, Houston is a great football town and I think being part of building something from the group up intrigued many of us.

I remember when the Steelers were crushing everyone in their historic prime years, the Oilers always managed to split home and home victories.
The Oilers actually beat the Steelers in Three Rivers on MNF one year, with Earl scoring 3 TDs.

You never heard of cupcakes being made by big burly men exploring the uncharted territory of the west. In fact, another term for the word cupcake is 'fairy cake', which is probably even more fitting of a term for the back-half of the Texans schedule and also Cortland Finnegan.
You seem to know a lot about cupcakes. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

fiasco west
10-12-2011, 10:22 PM
Don't forget the Bills too the way they are going..... :gun:

Of course "none of this is relevant to the Texans" - :shakeweight:

It isn't.

Because the Lions didn't go into game 5 without Calvin Johnson and didn't lose Suh in the same game. You see how the situation is different? I think the Texans win that game with Mario and Andre...using injuries as a excuse sucks but meh, you can't deny the team would be MUCH better with those two.

As for the Bills...they have one more win than the Texans do right now, whoopdedoo. People act as if we are 1-4.

I KNOW that the Texans have lost close games before and it's a trend but EVEN if the Texans became a powerhouse they are still going to lose close games. It happens.

I just wish people would be patient with the season, although the thread is valid. Kubes is on the hot-seat and should be but all that washes away with a win Sunday and everyone will say how tough the Texans are for going into Baltimore and winning the game.

TheMatrix31
10-12-2011, 10:33 PM
Many people who are saying "if we make the playoffs by virtue of a shitty division, Kubiak should still be fired" would go batshit crazy if Kubiak FAILED to take advantage of the situation and NOT gotten into the playoffs because of that weak division.

Just be honest with yourselves. You guys--want Kubiak gone--no matter what.

And that's fine.

I want Kubiak gone too, but if Kubiak gets into the playoffs then that's improvement. Shitty division or not, that's improvement and that's a good thing. If the guy wins, if he's bringing a playoff berth, then I'm fine with him. It's not his fault the division sucks. Props to him for taking care of business and taking advantage of a crappy division, because the Texans team of years' past wouldn't.

houstonspartan
10-12-2011, 11:05 PM
Many people who are saying "if we make the playoffs by virtue of a shitty division, Kubiak should still be fired" would go batshit crazy if Kubiak FAILED to take advantage of the situation and NOT gotten into the playoffs because of that weak division.

Just be honest with yourselves. You guys--want Kubiak gone--no matter what.

And that's fine.

I want Kubiak gone too, but if Kubiak gets into the playoffs then that's improvement. Shitty division or not, that's improvement and that's a good thing. If the guy wins, if he's bringing a playoff berth, then I'm fine with him. It's not his fault the division sucks. Props to him for taking care of business and taking advantage of a crappy division, because the Texans team of years' past wouldn't.

I want Kubiak gone, but, as I have said many times, if we get into the playoffs - even if we get there because our division is terrible - then I am ok with him staying on. HOWEVER, I would only let him stay on through the remainder of his contract, then evaluate. Period. No extension until his current contract runs out.

Kubiak hasn't EARNED a damn thing. He certainly didn't earn his last contract extension. Time for him to become a Big Boy NFL Coach and earn his keep.

TheMatrix31
10-13-2011, 12:53 AM
Most definitely.

Double Barrel
10-13-2011, 11:39 AM
Many people who are saying "if we make the playoffs by virtue of a shitty division, Kubiak should still be fired" would go batshit crazy if Kubiak FAILED to take advantage of the situation and NOT gotten into the playoffs because of that weak division.

Just be honest with yourselves. You guys--want Kubiak gone--no matter what.

And that's fine.

I want Kubiak gone too, but if Kubiak gets into the playoffs then that's improvement. Shitty division or not, that's improvement and that's a good thing. If the guy wins, if he's bringing a playoff berth, then I'm fine with him. It's not his fault the division sucks. Props to him for taking care of business and taking advantage of a crappy division, because the Texans team of years' past wouldn't.

I think Kubiak will win a lot of hearts and minds if we make the playoffs this year, regardless of how they achieve that goal.

He would cement the loyalty of the newly converted if they'd win that playoff game.

I don't think it's a matter of wanting Kubiak gone no matter what. As you know, it's beyond this season. It's his five other seasons of mediocre results that have a direct impact on people's opinions and thoughts about the coach.

But, I truly believe that we are all Texans fans first and want what is best for the team. If that is playoffs with Kubiak - which is the shortest distance between two points - then so be it. I doubt there would be many pink soaps around if they made the playoffs, much less won a playoff game.

Thorn
10-13-2011, 11:51 AM
Many people who are saying "if we make the playoffs by virtue of a shitty division, Kubiak should still be fired" would go batshit crazy if Kubiak FAILED to take advantage of the situation and NOT gotten into the playoffs because of that weak division.

Just be honest with yourselves. You guys--want Kubiak gone--no matter what.

And that's fine.

I want Kubiak gone too, but if Kubiak gets into the playoffs then that's improvement. Shitty division or not, that's improvement and that's a good thing. If the guy wins, if he's bringing a playoff berth, then I'm fine with him. It's not his fault the division sucks. Props to him for taking care of business and taking advantage of a crappy division, because the Texans team of years' past wouldn't.

If the Texans go 8-8 again, or even 9-7, and win the division but lose the 1st playoff game what then? I would see no improvement whatsoever because 8-8 or 9-7, been there done that. That would not show any improvement or progress and I would still want Kubiak gone.

Double Barrel
10-13-2011, 11:54 AM
If the Texans go 8-8 again, or even 9-7, and win the division but lose the 1st playoff game what then? I would see no improvement whatsoever because 8-8 or 9-7, been there done that. That would not show any improvement or progress and I would still want Kubiak gone.

While I agree with your mentality, just be prepared for McNair to see that as a another sign (playoff appearance) that we are on the right track and he will award Kubiak with another extension accordingly.

It's as predictable as Christmas.

Ryan
10-13-2011, 12:00 PM
If the Texans go 8-8 again, or even 9-7, and win the division but lose the 1st playoff game what then? I would see no improvement whatsoever because 8-8 or 9-7, been there done that. That would not show any improvement or progress and I would still want Kubiak gone.

That's the way i see it too. If he wins a playoff game by all means he deserves another year but unless we're 10-6 or better while losing that playoff game he should be fired.

Vinny
10-13-2011, 02:46 PM
While I agree with your mentality, just be prepared for McNair to see that as a another sign (playoff appearance) that we are on the right track and he will award Kubiak with another extension accordingly.

It's as predictable as Christmas.the low-bar mentality disturbs real football fans but the corporations that buy most of the high $ ticket seats don't care. This team feels like it serves corporate Houston more than the real football fans at times.

Honoring Earl 34
10-13-2011, 02:54 PM
the low-bar mentality disturbs real football fans but the corporations that buy most of the high $ ticket seats don't care. This team feels like it serves corporate Houston more than the real football fans at times.

Since 2006 when the Texans picked first the Saints , Titans , Jets , and Packers have rebounded better . Payton and McCarthy were hired when Kubiak was and both have won SBs .

Now we get the Lions , 49ers , and Bills making a move upward and I'm thinking the Texans are gonna find a way of keeping the Titans in the race . :koolaid:

The Pencil Neck
10-13-2011, 03:25 PM
The Packers seemed to do OK last year after missing key players. I'm not calling this team the Packers, but I didn't see those guys making any excuses. All they did was step up and win.

But they didn't win their division.

They lost some guys but it's not like they didn't lose some games during the regular season.

We're 3-2. We've still got a shot. Whether we take it or not, that's the question.

The Pencil Neck
10-13-2011, 03:28 PM
I can't wait for Cowher to show up here. I give it about a season and a half before you guys claim you never wanted him.

At least at that point we won't further suffer the Cowher cult of personality as he will be brutally exposed without a world class GM like he had in Pitt.

I have never wanted Cowher or Gruden. Or any coach who has won a SB.

Because no coach who has won a SB with a team has gone on to win a SB with another one.

Thorn
10-13-2011, 03:30 PM
We're 3-2. We've still got a shot.

You see, this is what I keep trying to tell myself. It's why I keep watching them every week. But games like last week just remind me of the Texans same ole act and piss me off.

houstonspartan
10-13-2011, 03:33 PM
I have never wanted Cowher or Gruden. Or any coach who has won a SB.

Because no coach who has won a SB with a team has gone on to win a SB with another one.

Yet.

I'm so tired of hearing that. It essentialy says that winning the Super Bowl makes a coach a failure, and they should never be hired ever again.

GP
10-13-2011, 03:53 PM
the low-bar mentality disturbs real football fans but the corporations that buy most of the high $ ticket seats don't care. This team feels like it serves corporate Houston more than the real football fans at times.

Is this perhaps part of Bud Adams' reasoning (if we can call it that) for making the move to Tennessee?

Theory: He wanted the new stadium, via tax payer money, but wanted no corporate big wigs who have gone and done just that with the Texans. He couldn't have the new stadium at the time, and he wasn't going to cater to the Houston elite either.

Just talking out loud, throwing stuff on the wall and seeing if it sticks.

GP
10-13-2011, 03:58 PM
Yet.

I'm so tired of hearing that. It essentialy says that winning the Super Bowl makes a coach a failure, and they should never be hired ever again.

I agree.

No team who has ever had Gary Kubiak as a head coach has won a Super Bowl. They haven't even won a playoff game either. Haven't even been to one at all.

I guess any new team who gets Kubiak after this year won't get to the playoffs or a Super Bowl, if we follow the logic being set forth/theorized.

Most coaches who win Super Bowls, they're satisfied with what they won and they don't have the hunger to go through the grind again. Even Jimmy Johnson when he was HC of Dolphins, he didn't seem to really be the same guy he was in Dallas. So I agree there is a "hunger to be on top" mentality that maybe younger, out-of-the-collge-game coaches seem to have.

But I know this: Gary Kubiak is either destined for legacy of Tom Landry level(s) or he's going to get punked out and kicked to the curb. There is a level of tolerance that will be rewarded by Kubiak finding his way to the top, or will sour to utter contempt and disgust if things fall apart like they have in years past.

People don't think a reckoning is coming, but I do. One way or another, the proof will be in the pudding. It will get settled one way or another, and it's just an issue of how many YEARS it takes to reach that height or depth.

Double Barrel
10-13-2011, 04:06 PM
Because no coach who has won a SB with a team has gone on to win a SB with another one.

I hear that all the time, but to me, it's like saying that no Houston team has ever been to a Super Bowl so a Houston team will never go to to a Super Bowl.

First time for everything and all that jazz...right?

There have been quite a few coaches that have won Super Bowls and then returned with other teams, though.

Is this perhaps part of Bud Adams' reasoning (if we can call it that) for making the move to Tennessee?

Theory: He wanted the new stadium, via tax payer money, but wanted no corporate big wigs who have gone and done just that with the Texans. He couldn't have the new stadium at the time, and he wasn't going to cater to the Houston elite either.

Just talking out loud, throwing stuff on the wall and seeing if it sticks.

My take is that Bud was just too impatient for his own good. He let Drayton Mclane pull an end-around with mind games about the Astrodome. And Bud was never part of the Houston social scene and was an outsider to Lanier's little millionaire club.

Bud later admitted that his biggest mistake was not waiting for the Astros to move first, because he realized in hindsight that this would have given him the upper hand on "the powers that be" in Houston to sway public opinion.

You are very right that he would never cater to Houston's elite, and they railroaded him out of town as a result. I feel there was an ulterior motive that no Oilers fan heard about the so-called 'protest' until after it happened. We ended up with egg our our collective faces and still hear about it from time to time to this day. Oilers fans were not happy with Bud, but I do not think any of them wanted the Oilers to leave town. Heck, we saw some big crowds at the 'dome during the lame duck season. Houston loves football, which is clearly proven with the financial success and undying support of a perpetual mediocre team we have now.

I will always hold Bud accountable for his decision to move, but I'm also pragmatic enough to understand that financial forces were actively working against him in Houston. Lanier is a sorry SOB, as far as I'm concerned, and Uncle Bob is part if his posse. That's just Houston history for ya'.

The Pencil Neck
10-13-2011, 04:23 PM
Yet.

I'm so tired of hearing that. It essentialy says that winning the Super Bowl makes a coach a failure, and they should never be hired ever again.

Coaches don't win Super Bowls, teams do.

The bottom line is that the statement is true. No Super Bowl winning coach has ever gone to another team and won a Super Bowl. Teams don't get to the Super Bowl because they have the superior head coach.

They win Super Bowls because they've got the better team, the least number of injuries, and they're in the right place at the right time.

I'd argue that having the right co-ordinators is more important than having the right Head Coach. I'd argue that Dick LeBeau is more important than Mike Tomlin for the Steelers and that Monte Kiffin was more important to the Buccs than Dungy or Gruden. Of all the SB winning coaches, Parcells has been the most successful and I think it's been because he's been so good at putting together the right coaching staffs.

With Kubiak and Phillips, we've got the best two coordinators we've ever had. But we're not going to win every game. There's a long way to go in this season and even though part of me totally expects this team to crash and burn now, we're still in position to have a great season. We're going to have to fight through some things. We've got ot figure some things out. Some kids are going to have to step up. But it's too early to give up the ship.

mridge01
10-13-2011, 04:23 PM
No AJ , No MW .... a game dominated by the Raiders DL .... and the Texans were a missed FG by Rackers away from winning 26-25 instead of losing 25-20 ..... but lets blame Kubiak.

Really? That's a horrible breakdown of this game. Fact is again, Kubiak's play calling fell short if he had to settle for 4 fgs again.

mridge01
10-13-2011, 04:25 PM
[QUOTE=Vinny;1799344]Losing to the Raiders at home...something playoff teams really shouldn't do. probably

This. +1

The Pencil Neck
10-13-2011, 04:30 PM
I hear that all the time, but to me, it's like saying that no Houston team has ever been to a Super Bowl so a Houston team will never go to to a Super Bowl.

First time for everything and all that jazz...right?

There have been quite a few coaches that have won Super Bowls and then returned with other teams, though.

There is a first time for everything. But if the best option is to pick up a coach who LOST a Super Bowl or a guy who's a hot-shot coordinator, why not go that way?

But to your second point, iirc, there've only been 2 coaches who won a SB with one team and then took another team to a SB: Parcells and Holmgren.

steelbtexan
10-13-2011, 04:44 PM
Right now, I would settle for a SB winning HC to come in, take over and lead the Texans to a SB. Even if it meant a SB loss.

Who elese feels this way? The mediocrity/loser meantality that has permiated the Texans organization for far too long nedds to go. The fastest way to do this is to bring in a proven winner. But hiring a proven winner isn't going to come cheap, so it's not going to happen.

steelbtexan
10-13-2011, 04:46 PM
There is a first time for everything. But if the best option is to pick up a coach who LOST a Super Bowl or a guy who's a hot-shot coordinator, why not go that way?

But to your second point, iirc, there've only been 2 coaches who won a SB with one team and then took another team to a SB: Parcells and Holmgren.

Shula?

thunderkyss
10-13-2011, 04:53 PM
I have never wanted Cowher or Gruden. Or any coach who has won a SB.

Because no coach who has won a SB with a team has gone on to win a SB with another one.

I never wanted either Cowher or Gruden, for a different reason. Sure they both got to the Super Bowl, but if you saw what Gruden did in Oakland then what he did in Tampa Bay, you know it's not all about the coach.

I really think Rick Smith is a bigger problem than Gary Kubiak & some of the things we've seen in the past 5.25 years points exactly to that. Not that I have any fond feelings for Kubiak, but until you get that GM thing fixed, we're not going all the way.

I'm really not fond of the idea of going for broke a third time & replace both the GM & HC again... I wish those two weren't joined at the hip & we had improved either one of those positions this past off-season.

If we back into the play-offs (which may very well happen) then embarrass ourselves, I hope McNair knows enough to fix one of the two... I'd prefer not both. But if he does go with both, I hope they aren't so closely related.

Double Barrel
10-13-2011, 04:54 PM
There is a first time for everything. But if the best option is to pick up a coach who LOST a Super Bowl or a guy who's a hot-shot coordinator, why not go that way?

But to your second point, iirc, there've only been 2 coaches who won a SB with one team and then took another team to a SB: Parcells and Holmgren.

I should have phrased it different by saying there have been quite a few coaches to take two different teams to Super Bowls.

Don Shula, Colts & Miami
Bill Parcells, Giants & Patriots
Dick Vermeil, Eagles & Rams
Dan Reeves, Broncos & Falcons
Mike Holmgren, Packers & Seahawks

And to be honest, I'd take a Super Bowl loss right now over never going to the playoffs any day. I think it's like a starving man complaining that his steak was not cooked right at this point. ;)

infantrycak
10-13-2011, 05:00 PM
Really? That's a horrible breakdown of this game. Fact is again, Kubiak's play calling fell short if he had to settle for 4 fgs again.

Really? Which part is inaccurate? Did AJ and Mario play more than 1 quarter? Did the OLine not get their asses handed to them? Didn't Rackers miss a field goal? Weren't the Texans in chip shot field goal range on the last play of the game? Did the Texans not lose by 5?

Are you contending bad play calling is the only thing that results in FG attempts? So Kubiak called for a no gain run on 1st down and then called for two incomplete passes before Rackers missed attempt? So bad play calling resulted in Dreessen's possible 1st down reception being ruled incomplete prior to Rackers 2nd attempt? So bad play calling was responsible for a 72 yard drive stalling after a first down sure fire dropped TD and a 3rd down sack leading to Rackers 3rd attempt?

Texecutioner
10-13-2011, 05:01 PM
I should have phrased it different by saying there have been quite a few coaches to take two different teams to Super Bowls.

Don Shula, Colts & Miami
Bill Parcells, Giants & Patriots
Dick Vermeil, Eagles & Rams
Dan Reeves, Broncos & Falcons
Mike Holmgren, Packers & Seahawks

And to be honest, I'd take a Super Bowl loss right now over never going to the playoffs any day. I think it's like a starving man complaining that his steak was not cooked right at this point. ;)

I have never understood why people discredit coaches or players that go to a SB and lose especially when it's a really close loss. It's like you were a few points away or a minute or so away from being a champion, but one minor thing got in the way, and all of a sudden it gets chopped down to them being like a team that got jilted out of the first round of the playoffs or something. That's never made an ounce of sense to me how people discredit a team that wins their entire conference, but just isn't the best team on the day of the SB playing the other best team of their conference. Going to a SB and losing is still a phenominal achievement.

Marcus
10-13-2011, 05:10 PM
No AJ , No MW .... a game dominated by the Raiders DL .... and the Texans were a missed FG by Rackers away from winning 26-25 instead of losing 25-20 ..... but lets blame Kubiak.

Yeah .... let's. :rolleyes:

Really? That's a horrible breakdown of this game. Fact is again, Kubiak's play calling fell short if he had to settle for 4 fgs again.

Really? That was a perfectly objective breakdown of this game. Fact is again, Kubiak's play calling didn't effect it in the very least.

But hey, I'm just a Kubiak **** sucking homer.texanpride

Double Barrel
10-13-2011, 05:15 PM
I have never understood why people discredit coaches or players that go to a SB and lose especially when it's a really close loss. It's like you were a few points away or a minute or so away from being a champion, but one minor thing got in the way, and all of a sudden it gets chopped down to them being like a team that got jilted out of the first round of the playoffs or something. That's never made an ounce of sense to me how people discredit a team that wins their entire conference, but just isn't the best team on the day of the SB playing the other best team of their conference. Going to a SB and losing is still a phenominal achievement.

I don't get it, either. Give me an AFC Championship team anytime. Yeah, it sucks to lose a Super Bowl, but it sucks times infinity to never go to the playoffs. Ask the teams have have lost the SB if they had rather never gone. I doubt any of them regret making it to the championship game.

I think Kubiak is a good X's & O's coach. And he appears to be pretty solid at talent evaluation. Where I question his ability is inspiring men to play above themselves and take the team to another level.

A Vince Lombardi quote has been stuck in my mind for years, and I think it's very applicable to today's NFL:

"Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate."

Right now, Kubiak is on the dime a dozen side of things. Cowher, and coaches that have been to championship games, are on the motivate side of things.

Fill your coordinator spots with coaches who do a good job of evaluating talent and draw plays, but your head coach has to be an inspiration/motivation that will elevate the entire franchise to a new level of confidence. I have seen nothing to convince me at this point that Kubiak is this coach. I'd love to be proven completely wrong about him, but my perspective has history to support it, and the opposing perspective is blind faith/hope in spite of history.

The Pencil Neck
10-13-2011, 05:17 PM
Right now, I would settle for a SB winning HC to come in, take over and lead the Texans to a SB. Even if it meant a SB loss.

Who elese feels this way? The mediocrity/loser meantality that has permiated the Texans organization for far too long nedds to go. The fastest way to do this is to bring in a proven winner. But hiring a proven winner isn't going to come cheap, so it's not going to happen.

SB winning coaches normally don't do well at their next teams. Only TWO of all the SB winning coaches who've gone on to coach another team have made it back. TWO.

So if you bring in a SB winning coach, you're probably propagating the loser mentality. I don't want Seifert part II.

The Pencil Neck
10-13-2011, 05:19 PM
Shula?

Nope.

He lost a Super Bowl and then took another team back and won it.

The Pencil Neck
10-13-2011, 05:22 PM
I have never understood why people discredit coaches or players that go to a SB and lose especially when it's a really close loss. It's like you were a few points away or a minute or so away from being a champion, but one minor thing got in the way, and all of a sudden it gets chopped down to them being like a team that got jilted out of the first round of the playoffs or something. That's never made an ounce of sense to me how people discredit a team that wins their entire conference, but just isn't the best team on the day of the SB playing the other best team of their conference. Going to a SB and losing is still a phenominal achievement.

And only 2 guys have gone back and lost.

Guys like Seifert, Lombardi, Ditka, Johnson, Stram, Flores, etc., never got back to the SB and many times didn't even have good teams.

How many years with the Seahawks before Holmgren finally got back?

The Pencil Neck
10-13-2011, 05:26 PM
I should have phrased it different by saying there have been quite a few coaches to take two different teams to Super Bowls.

Don Shula, Colts & Miami
Bill Parcells, Giants & Patriots
Dick Vermeil, Eagles & Rams
Dan Reeves, Broncos & Falcons
Mike Holmgren, Packers & Seahawks

And to be honest, I'd take a Super Bowl loss right now over never going to the playoffs any day. I think it's like a starving man complaining that his steak was not cooked right at this point. ;)

I'm fine with getting a coach in here to take us to the SB.

BUT.

A coach that won a Super Bowl is almost assured not to get back with his second team and lots of times, these SB winners don't even have good teams at their second stop (Seifert, Ditka, Stram). That's why I've been saying that it makes more sense to hire a guy that went to a SB and LOST like a Vermiel or a Shula. Fisher or Reid (if he gets fired) makes more sense that Cowher or Gruden.

thunderkyss
10-13-2011, 06:15 PM
Are you contending bad play calling is the only thing that results in FG attempts? So Kubiak called for a no gain run on 1st down and then called for two incomplete passes before Rackers missed attempt? So bad play calling resulted in Dreessen's possible 1st down reception being ruled incomplete prior to Rackers 2nd attempt? So bad play calling was responsible for a 72 yard drive stalling after a first down sure fire dropped TD and a 3rd down sack leading to Rackers 3rd attempt?

WHY does he do that? WHY?

It's obvious to someone like me with no football knowledge whatsoever that it would be much better to call for completions, TDs instead of Field Goals & 47 yard run plays...

Kubiak is a maroon!!

coon
10-13-2011, 06:47 PM
Am I the only one on the mb who would prefer Gruden. He always seems like he likes our talent when he covers texans games. Cowher seems like he migh have more a product of the organization.

Rey
10-13-2011, 07:02 PM
Am I the only one on the mb who would prefer Gruden. He always seems like he likes our talent when he covers texans games. Cowher seems like he migh have more a product of the organization.

I'm about to go into ABK mode if he can't get the offense to play better.

Double Barrel
10-13-2011, 07:15 PM
I'm fine with getting a coach in here to take us to the SB.

BUT.

A coach that won a Super Bowl is almost assured not to get back with his second team and lots of times, these SB winners don't even have good teams at their second stop (Seifert, Ditka, Stram). That's why I've been saying that it makes more sense to hire a guy that went to a SB and LOST like a Vermiel or a Shula. Fisher or Reid (if he gets fired) makes more sense that Cowher or Gruden.

I can understand your perspective. It does make you wonder about the potentially inherent complacency that might occur with a coach that already has a ring or two, as compared to a coach that went to the Super Bowl and lost and possesses the hunger to drive to get there again for the win.

I'm not advocating firing Kubiak at this point, simply because he's our coach and I want to wait until the season is over to evaluate. I'd just as soon go to the playoffs now than wait for another rebuild cycle that is certain with a new staff.

And while I like Cowher, I would not be opposed to some of the coaches you mention should it come to that point.

House of Pain
10-13-2011, 08:26 PM
I really think Rick Smith is a bigger problem than Gary Kubiak & some of the things we've seen in the past 5.25 years points exactly to that. Not that I have any fond feelings for Kubiak, but until you get that GM thing fixed, we're not going all the way.

I'm really not fond of the idea of going for broke a third time & replace both the GM & HC again... I wish those two weren't joined at the hip & we had improved either one of those positions this past off-season.

If we back into the play-offs (which may very well happen) then embarrass ourselves, I hope McNair knows enough to fix one of the two... I'd prefer not both. But if he does go with both, I hope they aren't so closely related.

I know that plenty of you will disagree, I still think that having a GM that doesn't know about scouting and players can still be successful. I think a GM that has a good grasp on managing the cap, talking to other teams (something that Smith has been questioned about), not botching negotiations, etc. and the 'business' side is equally, if not, more important.

Deficiencies in player evaluation can be overcome by having coaches and scouts that can give the GM a list of players and say "give me these guys" and they go out and get them.

I understand that Smith is probably bad at player evaluation and scouting, but he seems to be diligent in most other areas. I'm not saying that we couldn't find a better GM, because I'm sure we can, I just think that blaming him more than the coaching is misguided.

mridge01
10-14-2011, 03:52 PM
Really? Which part is inaccurate? Did AJ and Mario play more than 1 quarter? Did the OLine not get their asses handed to them? Didn't Rackers miss a field goal? Weren't the Texans in chip shot field goal range on the last play of the game? Did the Texans not lose by 5?

Are you contending bad play calling is the only thing that results in FG attempts? So Kubiak called for a no gain run on 1st down and then called for two incomplete passes before Rackers missed attempt? So bad play calling resulted in Dreessen's possible 1st down reception being ruled incomplete prior to Rackers 2nd attempt? So bad play calling was responsible for a 72 yard drive stalling after a first down sure fire dropped TD and a 3rd down sack leading to Rackers 3rd attempt?

I agree that the team got dominated from the 2nd quarter on, and yes it is Kubiak's fault that this team sucks in the redzone. He is not very imaginative down there. It is a trend, and a bad one.

I agree that Racker's missed fg appears to be the difference, but that also implies the Raiders don't score a TD on that last drive. Personally I think they were playing it safe to keep from turning it over. If they needed to get in the endzone they would have.

Vinny
10-14-2011, 08:52 PM
But they didn't win their division.

They lost some guys but it's not like they didn't lose some games during the regular season.

We're 3-2. We've still got a shot. Whether we take it or not, that's the question.its a good point, but they have proven they can win in the past. The Texans are still proving something since they haven't done squat yet. I'm still a cynic on Kubiak and his ability to navigate a full season while beating good teams.

amazing80
10-14-2011, 08:56 PM
its a good point, but they have proven they can win in the past. The Texans are still proving something since they haven't done squat yet. I'm still a cynic on Kubiak and his ability to navigate a full season while beating good teams.

First, hi vinny its been a LONG time, how you been?


Second, I agree, until Gary proves he can win against good teams, he will continue to be called a loser, just like our offense will continue to be called overrated while racking up a million yards between the 20s and sucking it up in the redzone....

ObsiWan
10-14-2011, 09:09 PM
Am I the only one on the mb who would prefer Gruden. He always seems like he likes our talent when he covers texans games. Cowher seems like he migh have more a product of the organization.

I don't know about wanting Gruden, but I sure agree with the bolded statement. Cowher inherited the team that Chuck Knoll put together which had several pro bowlers and a hall of famer. It's the same reason that Mike Tomlin has been successful. Inherit a really good team and keep the standards that were established waaay before you got the job up where they were.

Now, having said that, I think the Texans are just loaded enough for him to come in and perhaps bump up their performance a notch or two. I wonder if he would keep the current scouting staff and front office or bring in ex-Steelers. Because a big part of "raising the bar" is who you're smart enough to draft and/or trade for.

Pantherstang84
10-15-2011, 10:46 AM
Losing to the Raiders at home...something playoff teams really shouldn't do. probably

The Packers seemed to do OK last year after missing key players. I'm not calling this team the Packers, but I didn't see those guys making any excuses. All they did was step up and win.

/Thread

thunderkyss
10-15-2011, 11:18 AM
Losing to the Raiders at home...something playoff teams really shouldn't do. probably

The Packers seemed to do OK last year after missing key players. I'm not calling this team the Packers, but I didn't see those guys making any excuses. All they did was step up and win.


/Thread

Others have mentioned that Vinny's statement isn't exactly true......
They did lose 6 regular season games, including a home loss to the Dolphins.

The Packers weren't 16-0 in the regular season, they didn't win their division, and with the 6-10 Lions & 6-10 Vikings, their division wasn't any stronger than what the AFC South appears to be so far.

At this time last year, going into week 6, the Packers were 3-2, loosing to the Chicago Bears & the Washington Redskins. Again, no one knew the Bears would end up 11-5, they finished 2009 at 7-9 & the Redskins were 4-12.

We're 3-2 going into week 6

b0ng
10-15-2011, 11:24 AM
the low-bar mentality disturbs real football fans but the corporations that buy most of the high $ ticket seats don't care. This team feels like it serves corporate Houston more than the real football fans at times.

That's pretty much the entirety of the NFL and is not just a Houston-centric issue.

EDIT: Also, put me down as a "pass" on Cowher and Gruden. Gruden seems like he is going to be in Miami after this disaster of a season, and Cowher has been away from the game for long enough that I wouldn't be comfortable with him running the entire team and making personnel decisions.

I'm just not sure if I would want a coach that was fired during the season (Maybe Tom Coughlin if the Giants flounder around in the NFCE again) or a hotshot coordinator.

steelbtexan
10-15-2011, 11:31 AM
I know that plenty of you will disagree, I still think that having a GM that doesn't know about scouting and players can still be successful. I think a GM that has a good grasp on managing the cap, talking to other teams (something that Smith has been questioned about), not botching negotiations, etc. and the 'business' side is equally, if not, more important.

Deficiencies in player evaluation can be overcome by having coaches and scouts that can give the GM a list of players and say "give me these guys" and they go out and get them.

I understand that Smith is probably bad at player evaluation and scouting, but he seems to be diligent in most other areas. I'm not saying that we couldn't find a better GM, because I'm sure we can, I just think that blaming him more than the coaching is misguided.

Typical Texans fan, lowered expectations, I expect the Texans GM to be competent at all phases of his job. But that's just me. Maybe I expect too much.

It's OK that Smith isn't good at THE MOST IMPORTANT part of his job. You contradicted yourself when you said Smith was good working the phones. Then saying there arequestions about Smiths ability to get deals dne with other GM's. According to (A.Green and M.Coleman) word is on the street that agents dont trust Smith when negociating contracts. He probably is carrying BoBBy's water on the contracts. Smith probably knows very little about how to manage a cap. (He shouldn't) All NFL teams hire a cap guy for that. Jamey Rootes runs the business operations side of the Texans and if Smith was as good at his job as Rootes is at his the Texans would alreay have won multiple SB's.

In my mind a GM's real job is to make sure the owner makes the most profit and is able to put the best product on the field as possible. Leaving no stones unturned.

If Smith isn't good at talent evaluation, the cap guy runs the books, he's not well connected with other GM's/agents. Then what is he good at? What's his job?

He needs to spend more time learning how to scout and less time worrying about his position on the competition comittee.

In short Rick Smith appears to be a very nice man who's in way over his head. When it comes to performing his duties as a GM. And to think I once had blind faith in this young up and coming do we called Smithiak. Now I believe he is just part of the three stooges. Billionaire BoBBY/Slick Rick/Garys kids

gary
10-15-2011, 11:42 AM
It won't be Fisher, Gruden, or Cowher. High value coaches are not the Texans motto Wade is more up their alley.

thunderkyss
10-15-2011, 11:50 AM
It won't be Fisher...

I can see Fisher, he's got a Houston connection.

AaMoF I'd love nothing more than Fisher. The Cowboy fans would be pissed & we'd roll over the Titans for the next 5-10 years...

It would be priceless.

ChampionTexan
10-15-2011, 12:30 PM
It won't be Fisher, Gruden, or Cowher. High value coaches are not the Texans motto Wade is more up their alley.

The team's approach to this off season's free agency should tell you that Bob is willing to change his approach once he finally sees the need.

I'm optimistic that a playoff appearance by itself won't be enough to save Kubiak's job if it's a result of winning a crappy division with a slightly better than crappy team. And if he does jettison Kubes, I actually expect him to go with somebody pretty high profile and very possibly expensive.

The Pencil Neck
10-15-2011, 01:08 PM
It won't be Fisher, Gruden, or Cowher. High value coaches are not the Texans motto Wade is more up their alley.

Following the same strategy over and over and getting the same results is not an intelligent thing to do.

Bob went into this as a newbie owner trying to follow the Steelers approach which is: you hire someone you trust and you give them lots of time to get it working and you understand there will be some down years. For example, Noll had 3 losing seasons to start his career and then he got it turned around and Cowher had some losing patches and a reputation as a coach who couldn't win the big game. You rarely see that sort of patience with a staff these days or even back in the old days.

I'm not sure how long McNair will continue with that patient strategy with so many other teams getting quick fixes (even though those quick fixes frequently don't last for more than a season or two.)

TheMatrix31
10-15-2011, 04:23 PM
I can't stand Jeff Fisher. No thanks.

Lucky
10-15-2011, 04:29 PM
I'm optimistic that a playoff appearance by itself won't be enough to save Kubiak's job if it's a result of winning a crappy division with a slightly better than crappy team.
A playoff appearance of any kind will earn Kubiak an extension from McNair. That's a given. 8-8 or better and no playoffs will bring Kubiak back for the final year of his contract. Kubiak will have to lose this year to lose his job.

False Start
10-16-2011, 10:20 PM
Kubes job is on thin ice if they keep this crap up.

TheMatrix31
10-16-2011, 10:26 PM
We need someone proven. BUT that doesn't guarantee results either.

Aside from the "big fish", who are some potential guys that may be available? Whether they're OCs, DCs, positional coaches, coaches in CFB. I want to hear some suggestions and points to consider, particuarly for guys that may be looking to jump from CFB.

I'm weary of hiring guys from the CFB ranks, but I would have taken a chance on Harbaugh. Seems to be working well for the 49ers, but they're an Alex Smith-becoming-Alex Smith-again from falling right off the map.

And promoting Wade is a possibility. I sort of get the feeling that Wade knows his time as a HC is done and he's destined to be a great DC forever. He might decline the promotion. Another factor would be that McNair feels that with firing Kubiak, that he really needs to make a big big splash to make the change "worth it". Like Kubiak or not, I'm not sure in the least bit that firing him just to put Wade in (and taking him out of his DC slt) is any semblance of a good move.

thunderkyss
10-16-2011, 10:26 PM
When we made it through the offseason with both Gary & Rick Smith.... I didn't know what to say.

But if things go South & we put together a 3 game losing streak, I think Bob will fire Gary & Wade will be the coach through the end of the year.


I'm still here. I think this is the primary reason Wade was brought in here. Last year, who was he going to turn the team over to?

This year... I have too much faith in McNair to live with a three game losing streak with the possibility of four...

hradhak
10-16-2011, 10:30 PM
McNair has said that Kubiak is gone if we don't go "deep into the playoffs". Now "deep" may mean having a winning record, I dunno, but I'm hoping that he actually sticks to his guns. My guess is that McNair really wants to win, he just knows nothing about football and ends up relying on "consultants" for that.

False Start
10-16-2011, 10:31 PM
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/anyone-but-kubiak-2012.jpg

GP
10-16-2011, 10:39 PM
We need someone proven. BUT that doesn't guarantee results either.

Aside from the "big fish", who are some potential guys that may be available? Whether they're OCs, DCs, positional coaches, coaches in CFB. I want to hear some suggestions and points to consider, particuarly for guys that may be looking to jump from CFB.

I'm weary of hiring guys from the CFB ranks, but I would have taken a chance on Harbaugh. Seems to be working well for the 49ers, but they're an Alex Smith-becoming-Alex Smith-again from falling right off the map.

And promoting Wade is a possibility. I sort of get the feeling that Wade knows his time as a HC is done and he's destined to be a great DC forever. He might decline the promotion. Another factor would be that McNair feels that with firing Kubiak, that he really needs to make a big big splash to make the change "worth it". Like Kubiak or not, I'm not sure in the least bit that firing him just to put Wade in (and taking him out of his DC slt) is any semblance of a good move.

We've got Knapp and Dennison. I would expect McNair to only seriously consider any HC based solely on if the potential HC would keep the offense in place and agree that the HC's role would be to formulate WINNING game plans and to instill a new level of discipline and blood-thirsty attitude into the whole team.

I would think the new HC would be allowed to axe Schaub, if he wants to, and then go get whomever Dennison and Knapp feel would give the Texans what Schaub is not providing: A mobile, but competent QB who can get yards by running if there's no options when pass plays break down in critical situations. Yeah, yeah, I know: Sounds hard to do, and I am sure it is. But if Gary goes, I think Schaub has to go too in order to remove any awkwardness going forward with a new HC. It's like voting out a President...the VP goes, too.

Rick Smith will not be going when Kubiak is fired. McNair, IMO, doesn't think Gary and Rick are tied at the hip. I've been over this already. No need to go on even more. Rick Smith is a McNair guy for a long, long time. Maybe forever if Rick can continue to make shrewd salary moves.

So what HC would we go after? A fire-breathing defense guy like Cowher would be almost polar opposite of Wade who is "the guy" on defense.

A fire-breathing guy like Gruden? I hope not. This guy collected QBs at the end of his tenure at Tampa Bay because he couldn't find a competent one to save his life there. Plus, his schtick wore off with the players in Tampa and in came Raheem Morris who has them playing better than Gruden did. And they promptly chose a pretty good QB, IMO. Not a coincidence, folks.

Some dude who is a college coach right now? That's scary, IMO. You have to strike gold, or you're screwed for awhile.

Andre Johnson has to be on anti-depressants right now. I feel bad for him. I have a feeling he's coming back next week no matter what because he probably thinks it's on him to get this team to the playoffs. Poor guy.

TheMatrix31
10-16-2011, 10:46 PM
I don't know. I really don't.

I'm sure there are a couple of young Tomlin-like coordinators somewhere. Just don't know where.

False Start
10-16-2011, 10:54 PM
I present...Gary Gump:

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1333/garygumpcopy.jpg

fiasco west
10-16-2011, 10:54 PM
Honestly I feel like if Kubiak gets fired this year that Wade will become the HC.

I hope I am wrong...I really do...

DX-TEX
10-16-2011, 10:59 PM
Honestly I feel like if Kubiak gets fired this year that Wade will become the HC.

I hope I am wrong...I really do...

Feel that way also but someone told me last week that Wade made a comment after getting hired here that he does not want to be a head coach again. McClain also said in his weekly chat this past Tuesday he would be shocked if Wade ever made HC if Kubiak gets fired.

houstonspartan
10-16-2011, 11:05 PM
I present...Gary Gump:

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1333/garygumpcopy.jpg

LMAO!!

He almost looks like Jim Mora, Jr.

Double Barrel
10-17-2011, 11:12 AM
McNair has said that Kubiak is gone if we don't go "deep into the playoffs". Now "deep" may mean having a winning record, I dunno, but I'm hoping that he actually sticks to his guns. My guess is that McNair really wants to win, he just knows nothing about football and ends up relying on "consultants" for that.

When did McNair say this and please point me in the direction of solid proof, not speculation. I have been asking for evidence of this attitude from McNair for weeks, and nothing solid has been forthcoming to this point.

I do not believe it until I see it. McNair's history indicates otherwise.

TheCD
10-17-2011, 11:42 AM
Plus, his schtick wore off with the players in Tampa and in came Raheem Morris who has them playing better than Gruden did. And they promptly chose a pretty good QB, IMO. Not a coincidence, folks.

Not trying to disagree with you about Gruden, but Morris coached Josh Freeman in college, so he definitely had the advantage with that draft choice. And if I remember, Freeman was a bit of a "huh?" kind of pick to begin with.

DX-TEX
10-17-2011, 11:42 AM
Maybe this team needs to start reading some of the press they get:

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/29449/still-confident-texans-not-good-enough-yet

Same old Texans still not good enough

National medi on front page of their website.

HTown2ATX
10-17-2011, 11:43 AM
McNair has said that Kubiak is gone if we don't go "deep into the playoffs". Now "deep" may mean having a winning record, I dunno, but I'm hoping that he actually sticks to his guns. My guess is that McNair really wants to win, he just knows nothing about football and ends up relying on "consultants" for that.


Dude....no way I believe McNair said that..it would ruin his huge ass KUBIAK old english lettered tatt on his back..... :gun:

GP
10-17-2011, 11:59 AM
Not trying to disagree with you about Gruden, but Morris coached Josh Freeman in college, so he definitely had the advantage with that draft choice. And if I remember, Freeman was a bit of a "huh?" kind of pick to begin with.

I think the positives on Freeman were:

1. Big

2. Mobile

3. Good, solid arm

4. Smart (makes good decisions)

5. Leader

I agree that there was a bit of insider trading, so to speak, but hey...you gotta' make your own breaks in the NFL or any other pro sport. Props to Morris for knowing what he was purchasing at the time.

The big knock on Freeman, IMO, was that he was being put on a pretty bad Bucs team and had no talent around him at the time.

GP
10-17-2011, 12:35 PM
Dude....no way I believe McNair said that..it would ruin his huge ass KUBIAK old english lettered tatt on his back..... :gun:

Agreed.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/gpshafer_1976/kubiak4life.jpg

Vinny
10-17-2011, 12:35 PM
yeah, you actually have to win games to be considered a pretty good football team...well, I wish they would stop talking about it and just start winning."When it counted most with about 10 minutes left, we just quit making plays and they started making them," Texans head coach Gary Kubiak said. "We've got a pretty good football team, one that won't give you a damn thing in this league. But you've got to make plays to win."
http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/Ravens+pull+away+from+Texans/5559089/story.html#ixzz1b3d83d3P

GP
10-17-2011, 12:38 PM
Kubiak says the Texans "won't give anybody a damn thing..."?

LOL.

That's actually what we do: Give games away to opponents.

Full out lying, IMO, for him to say we don't give anything away for free. Teams know to just hang around and stay close...weather the storm...because the Texans will undo themselves in the 2nd half.

It's the Kubiak era: Good team, but lousy discipline when it counts most.

houstonspartan
10-17-2011, 12:40 PM
Kubiak says the Texans "won't give anybody a damn thing..."?

LOL.

That's actually what we do: Give games away to opponents.

Full out lying, IMO, for him to say we don't give anything away for free. Teams know to just hang around and stay close...weather the storm...because the Texans will undo themselves in the 2nd half.

It's the Kubiak era: Good team, but lousy discipline when it counts most.

Yup. I was just telling someone this morning that we have been exposed. Teams know how to deal with us now. Just hang in there and pressure us, and we will start to wilter.

TexCanada
10-17-2011, 12:45 PM
Yup. I was just telling someone this morning that we have been exposed. Teams know how to deal with us now. Just hang in there and pressure us, and we will start to wilter.

Ya its not hard to beat us right now. Blitz all day, stuff 8 in the box and throw at KJ/Allen. We will be playing a Titans team coming off a bye week, so they will no doubt have this game-plan ready to go right from kickoff. Better step up, Kubiak.

TexCanada
10-17-2011, 12:47 PM
Andre Johnson has to be on anti-depressants right now. I feel bad for him. I have a feeling he's coming back next week no matter what because he probably thinks it's on him to get this team to the playoffs. Poor guy.

This scares the crap out of me. We could ruin this guy's career by not handling this injury properly and rushing him back.

J_R
10-17-2011, 01:25 PM
When did McNair say this and please point me in the direction of solid proof, not speculation. I have been asking for evidence of this attitude from McNair for weeks, and nothing solid has been forthcoming to this point.

I do not believe it until I see it. McNair's history indicates otherwise.

Found this (http://blog.chron.com/sportsjustice/2011/08/well-we-have-to-be-there-it%E2%80%99s-time-for-us-to-make-it-happen-and-there%E2%80%99s-no-reason-why-we-shouldn%E2%80%99t-that%E2%80%99s-what-i-fully-expect-texans-owner-bob-mcnair/)(8/10/11) but hardly him saying "Make the playoffs(or make a deep playoff run) or I'll fire you!". Bob "expects to make the playoffs" (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/11/bob-mcnair-expects-the-titans-to-finally-get-to-the-playoffs/).


On his expectations this season…

“We said that our offense had done a good job for the last three years. Of course, you always want to do better, but it’s been more than adequate for us to be competitive. The problem has been our defense and we had to improve our defense, so we took steps in the off-season to do that. We brought (Defensive Coordinator) Wade Phillips in, he’s a big addition, and (Linebackers Coach) Reggie Herring and (Defensive Backs Coach) Vance Joseph. I think those three guys as coaches are going to be outstanding. So then in the draft, we go out there, and of course (DE) J.J. Watt and these other young guys are just doing a fantastic job. J.J., he’s more than what we expected. Then we have the free agents. We tried to deal with what we perceived to be the problems and I think that we’ve taken care of those problems, so there’s no reason why we can’t go out with the expectation that every game we play in that we’re going to win it.”

On his expectations for the postseason…

“Well, we have to be there. It’s time for us to make it happen and there’s no reason why we shouldn’t. That’s what I fully expect.”

On how Gary Kubiak fits in the organization…

“I think Gary and I think everybody in the league recognizes that he’s just done an outstanding job with the offense. Where are you going to go and get somebody than better with an offense than Gary? So, you take him and shore him up on the defensive side with (Defensive Coordinator) Wade Phillips, who’s as good as anybody in the business. Now you’ve got both sides of the ball covered with outstanding people who are not going to be outcoached. I think we’re in good shape. This is the strongest coaching staff we’ve had.”

On whether his patience is running out…

“Well, it’s time for us to make it happen. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. I think that’s true with all of us. We’re tired of talking about it and we want to see it happen. Players want to see it and coaches want to see it and that’s what we expect.”

On the criticism that Texans are not a tough team…

“Well, we lost a number of games at the end of the game. You ask somebody a question and they try to figure out, ‘Why did they lose the games?’ Well, that’s his explanation. I don’t think that’s a good explanation. I mean, we were out of position, we misplaced some balls, we did some things we shouldn’t have done. It wasn’t because of the toughness, and I think what it’s referring to is the physical toughness. What I’m referring to is the mental toughness. I do think we need to be mentally tougher. There’s no question about it because when you get in those critical situations, you’ve just got to be so focused on what you’re doing that there’s not going to be any error.”

On what he expects from OLB Mario Williams…

“I think Mario has always played hard for us. He’s had a number of injuries and he doesn’t complain about it, he doesn’t publicize it and people tend to overlook it. He had some sports hernia injuries last year and played through it as long as he could. I think that Coach (Defensive Coordinator Wade) Phillips is putting him in a position where he has a chance to have an outstanding year. We’ll how this works out, but so far he looks like he’s doing a good job.”

On how he phrases his frustrations to the organization…

“The same way. The exact same way. They know that. They feel the same way. We’re all on the same page and we all know we have to work together to make it happen. My job is to make sure that I’ve given them the resources that will let them do it, and that’s what I try to do in the off-season. We brought in outstanding coaches and we brought in some outstanding players and I think that we’ve got the players in place to make it happen. I think the coaches will, I think they’ll get the performance out of them.”

On what WR Andre Johnson brings to the team…

“Well, you just couldn’t ask for anybody to be a better teammate than Andre because not only is he a great player but he goes out there and plays as hard or harder than anybody, he never complains, he does his job, he’s willing to sacrifice and he doesn’t complain about how many balls you’ve thrown to him. That’s what you’re looking for. This is a team sport and a lot of what happens depends upon the chemistry of that team. Andre helps set the right chemistry for us.”

On if he expects for the team to make this playoffs this season…

“Well, I’m not even considering the other (option). It’s the playoffs. That’s what we expect and have no reason to believe we won’t be there. We’re going to do whatever we have to do to win, period. Of course, that means you’re going to be in the playoffs. We’re going to make those judgments as we go along, but it’s all about winning and we’ve had adequate time to get there and we’ve been very close. We just need to make that determination that we’re going to make it happen.”

On if he’ll have to convince fans this is a different year…

“No, I think most fans are pretty intelligent and they follow the team. As with anything, you sit down, if things didn’t work out the way you wanted them, you sit down and say, ‘What went wrong?’ and then you say, ‘Okay, what needs to be corrected?’ Well, that’s what we’ve done and our fans have seen that. Now, you can question our personnel choices, you can question who we’ve selected as coaches, but we’ve taken action to take care of those problem areas. Now we’ll see whether the people we’ve selected will step up and perform and eliminate those weaknesses, and I think they will.”

On if he’s concerned about injuries…

“Well, we had some injuries last year that hurt us more than we anticipated, especially on defense. We had a very young secondary and when we lost (ILB) DeMeco (Ryans), all of a sudden those guys were sort of back there by themselves. Then when things went wrong, there was nobody to pick them up. They just, it was death spiral, sort of. They just kept going down, down, down and it undermines their confidence. Well, we’ve got some veterans back there now that can step in if somebody makes a bad play, they can step in and say, ‘That’s alright, forget it. That’s history. Let’s go to the next play’. That’s what you have to do.”

On what it means for RB Arian Foster to not complain about his salary…

“Well I think Arian understands that if he goes out there and performs this year, shows that he can be consistent, he’ll be rewarded. That’s how the game works, but you don’t do it based on one season. One of the things that makes great players is consistency. The players that can go out there, they’ll be on the field and you can rely on them to be there, and they’re going to go out there and produce the same results year after year. That’s what makes Hall of Fame


“Well I think Arian understands that if he goes out there and performs this year, shows that he can be consistent, he’ll be rewarded. That’s how the game works, but you don’t do it based on one season.

Only if he took the same approach with his coach. You don't do it based on one season :rolleyes:

silentassassin
10-17-2011, 01:37 PM
When did McNair say this and please point me in the direction of solid proof, not speculation. I have been asking for evidence of this attitude from McNair for weeks, and nothing solid has been forthcoming to this point.

I do not believe it until I see it. McNair's history indicates otherwise.

I can't back up the quote you're questioning. However, I know Tim Melton(I think) of ABC had an interview with McNair before the Saints v. Texans preseason game. In that interview Melton asked what would happen if this team falls short of the playoffs again and McNair said that won't happen, and that the Texans will make the playoffs(almost like a guarantee, without using the actual word). He just left it at that. I wish I had it recorded or something but it seems like he didn't even bother to think about what would happen if they don't make it this season.

thunderkyss
10-17-2011, 01:46 PM
When did McNair say this and please point me in the direction of solid proof, not speculation. I have been asking for evidence of this attitude from McNair for weeks, and nothing solid has been forthcoming to this point.

I do not believe it until I see it. McNair's history indicates otherwise.

Truth of the matter is..... I'm Bob McNair. If we lose to Tennessee, I guarantee you Kubiak won't coach a game at Reliant again.


:kitten:

Corrosion
10-17-2011, 01:56 PM
Truth of the matter is..... I'm Bob McNair. If we lose to Tennessee, I guarantee you Kubiak won't coach a game at Reliant again.


:kitten:

You guy's may just get your wish should the Texans lose in Nashville ..... :kitten:

HTown2ATX
10-17-2011, 02:02 PM
You guy's may just get your wish should the Texans lose in Nashville ..... :kitten:


No way......it's excuse fest '11 for Kubes. He's got excuses built in everywhere this year.....New D, Injuries, no offseason not to mention I am throroughly convinced he has pictures that are less than classy on McNair to have kept his job this long.

:runaway:

Grams
10-17-2011, 02:06 PM
Truth of the matter is..... I'm Bob McNair. If we lose to Tennessee, I guarantee you Kubiak won't coach a game at Reliant again.


:kitten:

You would be my new Best Friend.

Double Barrel
10-17-2011, 02:48 PM
I can't back up the quote you're questioning. However, I know Tim Melton(I think) of ABC had an interview with McNair before the Saints v. Texans preseason game. In that interview Melton asked what would happen if this team falls short of the playoffs again and McNair said that won't happen, and that the Texans will make the playoffs(almost like a guarantee, without using the actual word). He just left it at that. I wish I had it recorded or something but it seems like he didn't even bother to think about what would happen if they don't make it this season.

yeah, I saw that interview. But, honestly, what else is the owner going to say in pre-season after retaining a mediocre head coach?

He, of all people, has go to tow the company line.

This quote that J_R posted leads me to believe otherwise:

On how Gary Kubiak fits in the organization…

“I think Gary and I think everybody in the league recognizes that he’s just done an outstanding job with the offense. Where are you going to go and get somebody than better with an offense than Gary? So, you take him and shore him up on the defensive side with (Defensive Coordinator) Wade Phillips, who’s as good as anybody in the business. Now you’ve got both sides of the ball covered with outstanding people who are not going to be outcoached. I think we’re in good shape. This is the strongest coaching staff we’ve had.”

Read those words carefully, as they provide insight. :thinking:

Truth of the matter is..... I'm Bob McNair. If we lose to Tennessee, I guarantee you Kubiak won't coach a game at Reliant again.

No way. Remember 2-14. It took at 6 game losing streak to open the season where we never had a lead at any point in those games for him to fire the offensive coordinator (which I recall happened before the streak played out).

He's not going to fire Gary mid-season. He's not going to fire Gary unless this season goes catastrophe, which it's not. It's going to play out around .500 like most of Gary's seasons.

BigBull17
10-17-2011, 03:25 PM
yeah, I saw that interview. But, honestly, what else is the owner going to say in pre-season after retaining a mediocre head coach?

He, of all people, has go to tow the company line.

This quote that J_R posted leads me to believe otherwise:

On how Gary Kubiak fits in the organization…

“I think Gary and I think everybody in the league recognizes that he’s just done an outstanding job with the offense. Where are you going to go and get somebody than better with an offense than Gary? So, you take him and shore him up on the defensive side with (Defensive Coordinator) Wade Phillips, who’s as good as anybody in the business. Now you’ve got both sides of the ball covered with outstanding people who are not going to be outcoached. I think we’re in good shape. This is the strongest coaching staff we’ve had.”

Read those words carefully, as they provide insight. :thinking:



No way. Remember 2-14. It took at 6 game losing streak to open the season where we never had a lead at any point in those games for him to fire the offensive coordinator (which I recall happened before the streak played out).

He's not going to fire Gary mid-season. He's not going to fire Gary unless this season goes catastrophe, which it's not. It's going to play out around .500 like most of Gary's seasons.

The fact that I can't argue with you makes my soul hurt.

GP
10-17-2011, 06:30 PM
This scares the crap out of me. We could ruin this guy's career by not handling this injury properly and rushing him back.

I think Andre Johnson is desperate enough to do anything he can do to get onto the field. He probably looks at these last two weeks and thinks, "Son of a ____. I go away for two games and we fall apart out there. Dammit."

He can't sit there and watch the season go down the drain. I think he'll play in the Titans game. Even if it's just to get tossed in the first quarter of the game for punching Finnegan out again.

KA4Texan
10-17-2011, 07:26 PM
I think Andre Johnson is desperate enough to do anything he can do to get onto the field. He probably looks at these last two weeks and thinks, "Son of a ____. I go away for two games and we fall apart out there. Dammit."

He can't sit there and watch the season go down the drain. I think he'll play in the Titans game. Even if it's just to get tossed in the first quarter of the game for punching Finnegan out again.

Agreed, the man looks like a caged animal on the side.

I think if we do manage the playoffs we will see the beast reach a new level, he will be where he has wanted to be (and deserved to be) for so long.

Im not implying the man hasn't given all he has, just saying, much like those mothers with trapped babies who tap an unknown strength, I see AJ taping into that and bringing new definition to "beast".

Just hope he doesn't force it and make the injury worse for himself.

Corrosion
10-17-2011, 07:33 PM
No way. Remember 2-14. It took at 6 game losing streak to open the season where we never had a lead at any point in those games for him to fire the offensive coordinator (which I recall happened before the streak played out).

He's not going to fire Gary mid-season. He's not going to fire Gary unless this season goes catastrophe, which it's not. It's going to play out around .500 like most of Gary's seasons.

McNair expects playoffs .... if they go .500 Gary's gone. (Unless something unfortunate happens like Schaub going down).

And if they dont win next week in Tennesee .... There's a strong possibility Gary will be taking a comercial flight home instead of the team flight.

thunderkyss
10-17-2011, 08:08 PM
McNair expects playoffs .... if they go .500 Gary's gone. (Unless something unfortunate happens like Schaub going down).

And if they dont win next week in Tennesee .... There's a strong possibility Gary will be taking a comercial flight home instead of the team flight.

Even if Schaub goes down, with a healthy AJ, OD, Foster, Walter, Casey, & Chris Myers likely going to the pro bowl, if it falls apart with Lienart under center & the division is won with a 9-7 record.... Kubiak's gone.... gone.. gone.

Corrosion
10-17-2011, 08:19 PM
Even if Schaub goes down, with a healthy AJ, OD, Foster, Walter, Casey, & Chris Myers likely going to the pro bowl, if it falls apart with Lienart under center & the division is won with a 9-7 record.... Kubiak's gone.... gone.. gone.

AJ isnt healthy , neither is Casey ..... Foster has missed time and still doesnt seem "Right" , Walter has missed a game .... and dont forget MW is out for the season.

Thats a who's who of the Texans top players ..... They have been ravaged by injuries.
Yeah , I know teams like GB last year lost a lot of players to injury but none of the importance that the Texans have thus far.


Only way Kubiak keeps his job if they dont make the playoffs is Schaub going down for an extended amount of time.

Double Barrel
10-18-2011, 12:05 PM
McNair expects playoffs .... if they go .500 Gary's gone. (Unless something unfortunate happens like Schaub going down).

And if they dont win next week in Tennesee .... There's a strong possibility Gary will be taking a comercial flight home instead of the team flight.

While I admire your optimism, I do not share it. There is nothing in McNair's history that indicates he has lost even the slightest bit of patience with Gary.

I have no doubt that he wants to make the playoffs. But, he wants it his way.

And his way includes Gary Kubiak.

Lock-out. New DC. AJ out. Mario out. Right track yada yada yada.

I will believe it when it happens. Until then, it's unrealistic expectations based upon OUR projections, but nothing in our owner's M.O. supports it at this point.

No way does he fire Gary if they lose to the Titans. Your "strong possibility" obviously means holding your breath until you pass out...right? :winky:

Vinny
10-19-2011, 06:23 PM
By Gil Brandt NFL.com

Gary Kubiak, Texans: Each season, you hear, "This is the year Houston makes the playoffs." Well, it better happen this time around or Kubiak won't be back. The injuries have hurt, but there are no more excuses when the AFC South is going to come down to the Texans and Titans. He's had everything needed to win from ownership -- spending heavily in free agency this offseason and adding Wade Phillips as defensive coordinator -- and has to deliver. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8234464b/article/coaches-on-hot-seat-reid-among-surprise-names-in-jeopardy?module=HP11_cp

RTP2110
10-19-2011, 06:31 PM
By Gil Brandt NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8234464b/article/coaches-on-hot-seat-reid-among-surprise-names-in-jeopardy?module=HP11_cp

Glad to hear that. And hes 100% right; the Jags and Colts are irrelevant this year. The Texans only have to do one thing to make the playoffs: be better than Tennessee. That's it. Be better than one freaking team. Tennessee is not a bad team, but they're not great either. Injuries or not, there's no excuse not to get it done. Hell if Kubiak's excuse were to be injuries, he is still the man responsible for assembling this team, a duty which includes assembling enough depth to persevere through critical injuries. Playoffs or Kubiak has to be fired.

J_R
10-19-2011, 06:35 PM
Gary #3 on PFT's Week 6 coaching hot seat (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/19/pft-live-segment-3-coaches-hot-seat).

"Number three, and his team is 3-3, I guess that's the perfect spot for the next guy. Gary Kubiak of the Houston Texans. And he's gotta be feeling the pressure this week of all weeks because this week the Texans play the Titans, who are 3-2. The Titans, the only other team in the AFC South that is competing with the Texans. The Titans, the team that can keep the Texans from winning the division. And when you consider the records of these two teams, I dont think we'll see a wildcard come from this division. Not with what we're seeing from the three other AFC divisions. So, its win the AFC South or go home and if the Texans end up going home, Gary Kubiak is literally going home. Going home carrying a box with his pictures and his yo-yo and whatever he keeps in his desk."

Texecutioner
10-19-2011, 06:37 PM
McNair expects playoffs .... if they go .500 Gary's gone. (Unless something unfortunate happens like Schaub going down).

And if they dont win next week in Tennesee .... There's a strong possibility Gary will be taking a comercial flight home instead of the team flight.

I've heard you and many others suggest this going on two seasons now, and it didn't happen when Kubiak couldn't get this team anywhere. What makes you think that Mcnair is going to do something now when he didn't before? It's always a speculation, but the fact that Kubiak is still here now is evidence that it isn't a guarantee, because 90% of the other teams in the league would have gotten rid of Kubiak at least two years ago, but Mcnair suggested that we were on the right track. We're not talking about a typical owner that is in a "win now" mode.

HJam72
10-19-2011, 06:45 PM
Gary's offense without A.J.: :polevault:

Double Barrel
10-19-2011, 06:45 PM
By Gil Brandt NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8234464b/article/coaches-on-hot-seat-reid-among-surprise-names-in-jeopardy?module=HP11_cp

I read the whole thing, and it comes across like a lot of posters. This is Gil Brandt's educated speculation, but there is no substance to support it from McNair.

We, as fans, know McNair better than national analysts because we live it year in and year out.

And as much as I'd like to believe that Kubiak's butt is hot right now, I feel like it's a kick-the-ball-with-Lucy setup. I've been Charlie Brown about this issue too many times. Now I'm Snoopy, just chillin' on the doghouse with Woodstock, eatin' some popcorn.

McNair's "right track" crapola after a MNF loss to the Ravens last season told me a lot about his mentality. I really hate to be so cynical about it, but it is what it is.

Vinny
10-19-2011, 06:53 PM
I read the whole thing, and it comes across like a lot of posters. This is Gil Brandt's educated speculation, but there is no substance to support it from McNair.

We, as fans, know McNair better than national analysts because we live it year in and year out.

And as much as I'd like to believe that Kubiak's butt is hot right now, I feel like it's a kick-the-ball-with-Lucy setup. I've been Charlie Brown about this issue too many times. Now I'm Snoopy, just chillin' on the doghouse with Woodstock, eatin' some popcorn.

McNair's "right track" crapola after a MNF loss to the Ravens last season told me a lot about his mentality. I really hate to be so cynical about it, but it is what it is.

This Sunday is the Kubiak Bowl. Much of the logic and reasoning behind keeping Kubiak was that it was a short off-season and McNair thinks change is devastating to a football team. Tell that to Mike Munchak. If the Titans beat us with a totally new coaching staff, new offensive coordinator and a retread quarterback without its WR1, it kinda blows up all the justification of keeping the status quo. I'm not saying things will change, but how does he defend Kubiak going forward?

Texecutioner
10-19-2011, 06:57 PM
McNair's "right track" crapola after a MNF loss to the Ravens last season told me a lot about his mentality. I really hate to be so cynical about it, but it is what it is.

It's downright frightening as a fan when you're wondering what the future could be around here when that's what the owner thinks after a season like last year.

Lucky
10-19-2011, 07:17 PM
If the Titans beat us with a totally new coaching staff, new offensive coordinator and a retread quarterback without its WR1, it kinda blows up all the justification of keeping the status quo.
If Jim Harbaugh hasn't debunked that "logic" already.

I'm not saying things will change, but how does he defend Kubiak going forward?
Injuries. He doesn't have a lockout or a hurricane, so that's the best Uncle Bob has to work with.

False Start
10-19-2011, 09:09 PM
If Kubiak fails to make the playoffs AGAIN, and Bob finds an excuse for keeping him around, he might as well change the name of the team to the Excouston Texans and get it over with. :rake:

Texan_Bill
10-19-2011, 09:15 PM
WHY does he do that?

It's obvious to someone like me with no football knowledge whatsoever that it would be much better to call for completions, TDs instead of Field Goals & 47 yard run plays...

[B]Kubiak is a maroon!!

I personally take offense to the A&M reference!!!! WTF does that have to do with this unless you're a hater on many levels...

*EDIT*
Errrrr "Gig 'em!!"

thunderkyss
10-20-2011, 03:39 AM
I've heard you and many others suggest this going on two seasons now, and it didn't happen when Kubiak couldn't get this team anywhere. What makes you think that Mcnair is going to do something now when he didn't before? It's always a speculation, but the fact that Kubiak is still here now is evidence that it isn't a guarantee, because 90% of the other teams in the league would have gotten rid of Kubiak at least two years ago, but Mcnair suggested that we were on the right track. We're not talking about a typical owner that is in a "win now" mode.

We're not talking about a typical owner. & "win now" isn't always a good thing.

It's 100% speculation, no doubt. But, it looks like McNair has put a couple of safeguards in place. Wade Phillips being one of them. In previous years, we didn't have anyone on the dole who could possibly salvage our season at any point or time.

Wade might not be a great head coach, but anyone should be able to take this bunch into the play-offs. If we lose @Tennessee, there is still enough season left to turn this thing around.

If we win @ Tennessee, Gary would have saved his job & bought himself at least to the end of the season. If we beat Tennessee, it will be a bumpy ride, but I have no doubt we'll make the play-offs.

At least that's what I see.

I personally take offense to the A&M reference!!!! WTF does that have to do with this unless you're a hater on many levels...

*EDIT*
Errrrr "Gig 'em!!"

I'm like an onion Bill. I got Layers.

Tonaaayyyy
10-20-2011, 03:55 AM
It is the coaches job to get the team ready and be prepared to play whether a kicker misses a fg or a FB drops an easy pass. It is Kubiak's job to teach this team how to be mentally tough and ready every Sunday. It's his job!!

Wolf6151
10-20-2011, 04:32 AM
Truth of the matter is..... I'm Bob McNair. If we lose to Tennessee, I guarantee you Kubiak won't coach a game at Reliant again.


:kitten:


LOL...If this were true it would be worth throwing the game intentionally.

steelbtexan
10-20-2011, 08:21 AM
LOL...If this were true it would be worth throwing the game intentionally.

I've never rooted for the Texans to lose.

But I would have to make an exception in this case for the betterment of the organization.

Moot point, BoBBy will give Gary a 5 yr contract extention after Gary makes the playoff at 9-7 and is trounced in the 1st rd of the playoffs.

Because we're on the right track.

Thorn
10-20-2011, 08:33 AM
Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak must go.

Period.

thunderkyss
10-20-2011, 10:24 AM
Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak must go.

Period.

What if we dominate the rest of our schedule? Blow everyone out by 17 for the rest of the year? Hold everyone to less than 14 points?

It can happen. May not, but it could. How would you feel if that were the case? There are still 9 games left, we can finish anywhere from 13-3 to 3-13.

Runner
10-20-2011, 10:40 AM
What if we dominate the rest of our schedule? Blow everyone out by 17 for the rest of the year? Hold everyone to less than 14 points?

It can happen. May not, but it could. How would you feel if that were the case? There are still 9 games left, we can finish anywhere from 13-3 to 3-13.

Still grasping at the next to impossible future to base arguments on? "What if they finish out 10-0?" We hear that every year. It doesn't happen. Odds are very high it won't happen this year either. I'd say the odds are about 50-50 that that dream gets crushed this WEEK. Of course after that they might go 9-0...

I guess if they improve to 8-8 this year leadership can't be fired because they might go 16-0 next season. Unlikely, but possible.

DexmanC
10-20-2011, 11:28 AM
What if we dominate the rest of our schedule? Blow everyone out by 17 for the rest of the year? Hold everyone to less than 14 points?

It can happen. May not, but it could. How would you feel if that were the case? There are still 9 games left, we can finish anywhere from 13-3 to 3-13.

You've asked similar "what if" questions in previous seasons.

I'd like to ask you, which games out of 1-19, or 1-8 (last nine road games
played,) or 1-3 (last 4 games played,) gives you any belief that your
"what ifs" are likely to occur?

Tampa Bay doesn't suck. Atlanta doesn't suck. Cam Newton and Steve
Smith don't suck. What piss poor teams remain on the schedule? Haven't
the Texans lost 3 out of their last 4 games? What evidence have they
shown to convince you they can remain focused over the next 10 games?

I'll believe it when I see it. I HOPE there's a head coaching
CHANGE in 2012.

thunderkyss
10-20-2011, 12:43 PM
You've asked similar "what if" questions in previous seasons.

I'd like to ask you, which games out of 1-19, or 1-8 (last nine road games
played,) or 1-3 (last 4 games played,) gives you any belief that your
"what ifs" are likely to occur?

Tampa Bay doesn't suck. Atlanta doesn't suck. Cam Newton and Steve
Smith don't suck. What piss poor teams remain on the schedule? Haven't
the Texans lost 3 out of their last 4 games? What evidence have they
shown to convince you they can remain focused over the next 10 games?

I'll believe it when I see it. I HOPE there's a head coaching
CHANGE in 2012.

Maybe I should have worded the question differently. Remember, the post I was responding to said:
Kubiak must go period

Is there anything Kubiak can do this season to save his job?

If the answer is no, which it sounds like for you & many others, then what's the point with these discussions.

I do not care who the HC of the Texans will be in 2012, I'm more concerned with 2011.

With that said, I think if we get to the AFC Championship game, my opinion of Gary Kubiak will change. I don't think it will be easy & will show that Kubiak has changed as a coach if he were to make it happen.

McNair's bar may be lower than mine. So he may be here in 2012 whether we make an AFCChampionship appearance or not. My opinion of him will be the same as it is now.

So, I'm asking you (& anyone else who cares to answer the question asked):

Will your opinion of Gary Kubiak change if the Texans go undefeated the rest of the season?

Kimmy
10-20-2011, 01:50 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8234464b/article/coaches-on-hot-seat-reid-among-surprise-names-in-jeopardy

Kubiak #4

Gary Kubiak, Texans: Each season, you hear, "This is the year Houston makes the playoffs." Well, it better happen this time around or Kubiak won't be back. The injuries have hurt, but there are no more excuses when the AFC South is going to come down to the Texans and Titans. He's had everything needed to win from ownership -- spending heavily in free agency this offseason and adding Wade Phillips as defensive coordinator -- and has to deliver.

Thorn
10-20-2011, 03:16 PM
What if we dominate the rest of our schedule? Blow everyone out by 17 for the rest of the year? Hold everyone to less than 14 points?

It can happen. May not, but it could. How would you feel if that were the case? There are still 9 games left, we can finish anywhere from 13-3 to 3-13.

Over time, I've changed my mind on a lot of things relating to the Texans. There's no reason I can't change it again provided there's a reason to. I think it highly unlikely there'll be a reason for me to change my mind on Kubiak though.

Wolf6151
10-21-2011, 06:49 AM
What if we dominate the rest of our schedule? Blow everyone out by 17 for the rest of the year? Hold everyone to less than 14 points?

It can happen. May not, but it could. How would you feel if that were the case? There are still 9 games left, we can finish anywhere from 13-3 to 3-13.


IF has to be the most abused word in the english language. IF my aunt Sally had a schlong she'd be my uncle Fred. It's about as likely as the Texans winning out. Put me on the list of people that want Kubiak gone regardless of what he or the Texans do this year. Even IF we win out I still want him gone.

Corrosion
10-21-2011, 06:54 AM
IF has to be the most abused word in the english language. IF my aunt Sally had a schlong she'd be my uncle Fred. It's about as likely as the Texans winning out. Put me on the list of people that want Kubiak gone regardless of what he or the Texans do this year. Even IF we win out I still want him gone.

So they could bring home the :trophy: and you still want him gone ?!!


Hell , they lose this week in Hillbilly Holler , you might get your wish ..... :pop:

Runner
10-21-2011, 08:36 AM
So they could bring home the :trophy: and you still want him gone ?!!




If the Texans win the Super Bowl, it would be silly to think Kubiak would be fired. (About as silly as assuming a Super Bowl win at this point).

I'd still wonder what the aberration was, the four years of blah or the Super Bowl run. The trophy would earn Kubes the chance to prove the win wasn't an aberration.

========

I can see the post Super Bowl press conference though:

Reporter: Can you repeat?

Gary: Well, we are trying to figure this thing out. If we can figure out how we got here, we will try to do it again.

HJam72
10-21-2011, 08:44 AM
Reporter: Can you repeat?

GK: (thump, thump, thump) Well....not with this team, because Bob just fired me on the way in here (thump, thump). :clown:

Corrosion
10-21-2011, 09:16 AM
If the Texans win the Super Bowl, it would be silly to think Kubiak would be fired. (About as silly as assuming a Super Bowl win at this point).

I'd still wonder what the aberration was, the four years of blah or the Super Bowl run. The trophy would earn Kubes the chance to prove the win wasn't an aberration.

========

I can see the post Super Bowl press conference though:

Reporter: Can you repeat?

Gary: Well, we are trying to figure this thing out. If we can figure out how we got here, we will try to do it again.

About as silly as thinking GB would win it all last year .... When they had to go thru Philly , Atlanta and Chicago all on the road to get there ..... as a wild card ?

thunderkyss
10-21-2011, 09:27 AM
I can see the post Super Bowl press conference though:

Reporter: Can you repeat?

Gary: Well, we are trying to figure this thing out. If we can figure out how we got here, we will try to do it again.



Reporter: Can you repeat?

GK: (thump, thump, thump) Well....not with this team, because Bob just fired me on the way in here (thump, thump). :clown:

Reporter: Can you repeat?

GK: (thump...) Well John... let me look at the tape (I had my back turned on that SB winning field goal)... but whatever happened, "it's on me"

:koolaid:

Runner
10-21-2011, 09:27 AM
About as silly as thinking GB would win it all last year .... When they had to go thru Philly , Atlanta and Chicago all on the road to get there ..... as a wild card ?

I knew I'd catch flak for suggesting a Texan Super Bowl run this year was a remote possibility. It's just too easy to pencil in future games as wins while ignoring the team's past performance.

The Packers had recent success leading up to last season. They were 11-5 the year before. The Texans have not had similar recent success, unless spinning the drop to 6-10 as incremental improvement counts.

In other words, as hard as this may be to believe, I think the Green Bay Packers are a better football team than the Houston Texans.

Corrosion
10-21-2011, 10:03 AM
I knew I'd catch flak for suggesting a Texan Super Bowl run this year was a remote possibility. It's just too easy to pencil in future games as wins while ignoring the team's past performance.

The Packers had recent success leading up to last season. They were 11-5 the year before. The Texans have not had similar recent success, unless spinning the drop to 6-10 as incremental improvement counts.

In other words, as hard as this may be to believe, I think the Green Bay Packers are a better football team than the Houston Texans.

Im not giving you flak ..... not at all. Just pointing out that once a team gets to the playoffs , anything can happen.


They are three and three - beaten two terrible teams and one very good team (that was banged up) .... they lost to title contenders in NO and Baltimore on the road .... They lost to a team most of us didnt think was very good in the Raiders , after watching that game and evaluating their performances earlier in the season - they were a better team than we gave them credit for at the time. Not sure how things play out for them now with their QB change.

This next game against the Tits (in which they are the underdog) will tell us a whole lot about the team and the rest of the season.

We've got a lot of season left to play .... no telling where things end up with this team. They could be a division winner , they could fall short. I dont think there is much chance of them winning a wild card.

They are banged up .... but they still have a chance to win every game from here on out.

Lets see how the season plays out ....

Double Barrel
10-21-2011, 12:44 PM
The Texans take baby steps. Remember how many seasons it took just to win two in row? 3 seasons, 2004 was the first to win two in a row.

How about three games in a row? 7 seasons, 2008 was the first to win three in a row.

First winning record? 8 seasons, 2009 was the first and only winning record

Should the Texans get to the playoffs, I think that will be considered such a monumental achievement that no other expectations will be fulfilled after that point in the season. Quick bounce out, and we will be constantly reminded with souvenir items commemorating the historic event.

Of course, cart in front of the horse here. They have to win some games and actually get to the playoffs, of course.

Baby steps, man, baby steps. :texflag: goo goo freakin' ga ga

b0ng
10-21-2011, 01:21 PM
Besides Cowher (Whom I personally don't want) what is going to be the hot coaching prospects available after this year? I have none springing to mind except for re-tread head coaches already.

thunderkyss
10-21-2011, 01:22 PM
Besides Cowher (Whom I personally don't want) what is going to be the hot coaching prospects available after this year? I have none springing to mind except for re-tread head coaches already.

I'm really more interested in those hot GM prospects.. who's out there?




:koolaid:

b0ng
10-21-2011, 01:39 PM
I'm really more interested in those hot GM prospects.. who's out there?




:koolaid:

Shit that's even more difficult to think of than coaches really. I barely know the names of the current GM's for all 32 teams, much less who's in a non-GM role that would be any good.

Maybe the guy that manages the cap for Philly? Who knows.