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tacoman_j
04-24-2005, 06:29 PM
According to the quote by the coach; one can deduce that Glenn is gone; no need for him.

(on safety Ceandris Brown) “When you get to this point in the draft, you are looking for guys with good height, weight, and speed that have had good productivity. When you take a defensive back at this point, you want a guy who can contribute on special teams. While they are learning the system they need to contribute on special teams. We feel Ceandris has those capabilities. We like for our guys to be able to play either way. If you look at Glenn Earl, Jammal Lord, and the young guys we have in the secondary, they have the size and speed that allows them to play either side. As you look at our secondary, we have a young secondary with exception of Marcus Coleman who is coming back at 31 years of age. We have some players that we think are ascending and still learning the system. Of course two starters in our secondary were rookies last season. We have also added Phillip Buchanon, who is young. Ceandris is going to fit in well with that group. It is exciting to have these young ascending players.”

houstontexans.com

Texans Pride
04-24-2005, 06:38 PM
Umm, yeah, I didn't see Glenn's name mentioned in that statement at all. . . Coleman, but no Glenn...

Beastlyman2003
04-24-2005, 06:38 PM
this blows. if they wanted to cut money or something, they shouldnt have resigned seth payne for an ungodly amout and overpaid for over-the-hill Gary Walker. We needed to keep AG. Next year, Drob wont be as good and p buch will still be unrefined, but im not the GM. This is some attempt to make our team younger by removing the cornerstones. This team is gonna be havin a top 10 pick next year, i dont want it, but its gonna happen. :thumbdown

texans
04-24-2005, 06:58 PM
why would D-rob be worse next year with a increaced pass rush and you forget this will be buchanes 4th year starting

edo783
04-24-2005, 07:15 PM
I agree, we need to keep Glenn for one more season to develope and guide the young guys, after that?????? Personally, I would keep him around as the nickle/dime DB for a couple of more years and then make him the DB coach after Hoak becomes the DC. He would need to re-do his contract to make this work though. Not sure how likely that is.

F-minus67
04-24-2005, 07:31 PM
I'd just keep him around until he retired which will be sooner rather than last it seems. He is a great character guy and will help our younger players learn the position and the defense.

texanfan2002114
04-24-2005, 07:32 PM
I agree, we need to keep Glenn for one more season to develope and guide the young guys, after that?????? Personally, I would keep him around as the nickle/dime DB for a couple of more years and then make him the DB coach after Hoak becomes the DC. He would need to re-do his contract to make this work though. Not sure how likely that is.


He has lost a step and won't become PB back up. Thats what the nickel back is, a back up. The Texans have DRob, PB and Faggins to be their nickel back.

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 07:35 PM
why would D-rob be worse next year with a increaced pass rush and you forget this will be buchanes 4th year starting

Where is this increased pass rush coming from?

TEXANS84
04-24-2005, 07:38 PM
I guess Capers doesn't want his job after this season.

D-ReK
04-24-2005, 07:50 PM
I guess Capers doesn't want his job after this season.

Pretty much...It seems obvious to me that if we don't make a playoff run this year, at the bare minimum, Capers is gone...Fangio and Palmer are possibilities, too...

I've tried to find a good reason to cut/trade Glenn, and I can't come up with one...He's going to be 33, wow, great reason to cut the leader of your D...

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 07:57 PM
Pretty much...It seems obvious to me that if we don't make a playoff run this year, at the bare minimum, Capers is gone...Fangio and Palmer are possibilities, too...

I've tried to find a good reason to cut/trade Glenn, and I can't come up with one...He's going to be 33, wow, great reason to cut the leader of your D...

No the leader of the D was cut earlier. Now we cut our secondary leader for a premadonna.

WildBlackBear32
04-24-2005, 07:57 PM
Where is this increased pass rush coming from?

From all the OLBs and Tweeners we drafted this year!!!...errrrr

D-ReK
04-24-2005, 08:00 PM
No the leader of the D was cut earlier. Now we cut our secondary leader for a premadonna.

Sharper begged for someone to show him the way...Sounds like a leader to me :rolleyes:...

Rovator
04-24-2005, 08:01 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't think that Glenn "lost a step"? If I remember correctly, I thought he struggled early in the season (injury perhaps? or maybe Robinson and Coleman struggling?), but by the end of the year I thought he was back to playing really well.

D-ReK
04-24-2005, 08:02 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't think that Glenn "lost a step"? If I remember correctly, I thought he struggled early in the season (injury perhaps? or maybe Robinson and Coleman struggling?), but by the end of the year I thought he was back to playing really well.

It's hard to tell if he lost a step or just had trouble adjusting to the new coverage rules at the beginning of the season...

barzilla
04-24-2005, 08:17 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I like Glenn, but we also know that there could be some guys available after June 1st. This team is putting themselves in a situation to help themselves at that point and sign their draft picks easily. It didn't make sense to sign Faggins to a long-term deal to have him be the fourth corner. Maybe I'm naive, but it doesn't seem that wise to sign a player like Faggins to that kind of contract to serve a critical role in two games. Besides, if we were really that concerned with the Colts, why didn't we draft Barron to block Freeney?

DocBar
04-24-2005, 08:23 PM
I guess Capers doesn't want his job after this season.
When did Capers become the personnel man? That's CC and he seems to be in McNair's good graces. It does suck about AG. I really think we should keep him, but I'm not so sure it's as much about us wanting him gone as it is AG doesn't want to be a back up at this point in his career. And CC is pretty much adamant about taking BPA in the draft(except 1st round usually)and not drafting the "popular pick". Gonna be a heck of a fun time seeing how it unfolds this year.

DocBar
04-24-2005, 08:25 PM
Besides, if we were really that concerned with the Colts, why didn't we draft Barron to block Freeney?
Barron wasn't as highly rated by a lot of teams as it sounded like. All 32 teams put out a lot of smoke in the draft. I would have been apoplectic if we drafted Barron.

Beastlyman2003
04-24-2005, 08:25 PM
From all the OLBs and Tweeners we drafted this year!!!...errrrr
We only drafted one OLB and we got em in the 7th round. He wont even make the 53 man roster. Think first.

texman8
04-24-2005, 08:34 PM
Me thinks he was being sarcastic. Yuk! yuk!

DocBar
04-24-2005, 08:37 PM
Me thinks he was being sarcastic. Yuk! yuk!
LOL...nice one. Hadn't thought about it that way. :heh:

WildBlackBear32
04-24-2005, 08:45 PM
Me thinks he was being sarcastic. Yuk! yuk!

Yes...sad everyone couldnt pick that up...

DocBar
04-24-2005, 08:49 PM
Yes...sad everyone couldnt pick that up...
HEY!!! This is serious business we're talking here!!! :rofl:

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 09:11 PM
We only drafted one OLB and we got em in the 7th round. He wont even make the 53 man roster. Think first.

Well then thats even worse than drafting a bunch of tweeners....

I think our pass rush will be even worse this year if thats possible. I know its too early to be too negative, but I see no upside on the defensive side of the ball next year. Alot of yards on the ground and through the air. I think if we go 7-9 it will be a small miracle this year.

tacoman_j
04-24-2005, 09:18 PM
Well then thats even worse than drafting a bunch of tweeners....

I think our pass rush will be even worse this year if thats possible. I know its too early to be too negative, but I see no upside on the defensive side of the ball next year. Alot of yards on the ground and through the air. I think if we go 7-9 it will be a small miracle this year.

Just b/c we did not get DJ. DJ is the savior that was supposed to lead us to promised land. Man, I can't wait till KC has the #1 defense in league. DJ gets 3000 tackles with 15 ints. DJ will be rookie of the millenium, and make the HOF based on first year performance. Man, I just can't wait. Also, texans will suffer first winless season in franchise history. All because of DJ!! :heh:

swisher
04-24-2005, 09:25 PM
These moves may not work out for the best, but at least you can say this organization does not flinch about making an unpopular choice.

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 09:25 PM
Just b/c we did not get DJ. DJ is the savior that was supposed to lead us to promised land. Man, I can't wait till KC has the #1 defense in league. DJ gets 3000 tackles with 15 ints. DJ will be rookie of the millenium, and make the HOF based on first year performance. Man, I just can't wait. Also, texans will suffer first winless season in franchise history. All because of DJ!! :heh:

Has nothing to do with DJ and everything having to do with our two MLBs gone, along with our veteran leadership out of the secondary. Drafting DJ would not have made it better this year.

Pick out someone besides Dunta on our defense that is even above average :whistle:

AndreJ
04-24-2005, 09:28 PM
Has nothing to do with DJ and everything having to do with our two MLBs gone, along with our veteran leadership out of the secondary. Drafting DJ would not have made it better this year.

Pick out someone besides Dunta on our defense that is even above average :whistle:

Last i checked, glenn was still a Texan. Just because he was given permission to seek a trade doesn't mean he's gone.

D-ReK
04-24-2005, 09:31 PM
Last i checked, glenn was still a Texan. Just because he was given permission to seek a trade doesn't mean he's gone.

Everyone said the same thing about Sharper and Foreman, too...

FILO_girl
04-24-2005, 09:34 PM
I guess Capers doesn't want his job after this season.

And I am fine with that. Seattle is supposedly mad at Holmy.....
I would LOVE to have Holmgren here!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup
(now let the repercussions begin!)

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 09:37 PM
Last i checked, glenn was still a Texan. Just because he was given permission to seek a trade doesn't mean he's gone.

Are you serious????

Hervoyel
04-24-2005, 09:38 PM
The "given permission to seek a trade" is just a matter of polite language. It really just means "We're cutting this guy June 1st" and nobody is going to trade for him when they know they can sign him to a new, probably cheaper deal if they just wait.

AndreJ
04-24-2005, 09:38 PM
Everyone said the same thing about Sharper and Foreman, too...

Yes i understand that there is obviously a trend but just because he was given permission to seek a trade doesn't mean that you should just take him off the roster the moment you hear of it.

AndreJ
04-24-2005, 09:40 PM
Are you serious????

Yes i am and as far as you go im just disregarding everything you post for the next month, you seem like an intelligent person, but since we passed on DJ you make it seem like the world has come to an end. (Literally) :listening

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 09:56 PM
Yes i am and as far as you go im just disregarding everything you post for the next month, you seem like an intelligent person, but since we passed on DJ you make it seem like the world has come to an end. (Literally) :listening

The world is coming to an end, because we lose Sharper, Foreman, and Glenn.... and replace them with question marks.

Glenn is gone buddy. Let it go. We didnt ask him to look for a trade to see if we can get something just for sh*ts and giggles.

FILO_girl
04-24-2005, 10:16 PM
Yes i am and as far as you go im just disregarding everything you post for the next month, you seem like an intelligent person, but since we passed on DJ you make it seem like the world has come to an end. (Literally) :listening
Cut the personal attacks. ComstockLode didn't insult your IQ because you are being a Glenn homer (what you are accusing him of being with DJ).
Kids. :rolleyes:

dalemurphy
04-24-2005, 10:26 PM
And I am fine with that. Seattle is supposedly mad at Holmy.....
I would LOVE to have Holmgren here!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup
(now let the repercussions begin!)


UGGHH! Holmgren is lowsy! You only think you want him here. Do you realize how bad you have to be to anger those hippies in Seattle?!

Holden135
04-24-2005, 10:46 PM
I like having glenn but for how much he is making he won't be worth it. P Buchanon is our future. Glenn has one or two years left in him at best. I don't like to shove him out the door but look at the Astros with Bagwell and Biggio. Those guys are killing them with their contracts and lack of playing up to them. I believe all these guys are going because everyone knows there will be plenty of talented players in the free agency market after teams start making their cuts. We will have the money to go out and get these guys.

FILO_girl
04-24-2005, 11:18 PM
UGGHH! Holmgren is lowsy! You only think you want him here. Do you realize how bad you have to be to anger those hippies in Seattle?!

I agree with the Birkenstock population reference but I like Holmy....have for years. :thumbup
I think the clove cigarettes have messed with him in Seattle, he was awesome in Green Bay. Think he would be fine here.

scourge
04-24-2005, 11:58 PM
I think a combo of Casserly and Holmgren would be good, but I wouldn't like it if Holmgren took over the GM duties as well.

D-ReK
04-25-2005, 12:00 AM
CHRIS PALMER FOR HEAD COACH!!!!11 :woot

GP
04-25-2005, 12:21 AM
First of all:

BIG props to D-Rek for the Palmer for head coach statement. That was soooooooooooooooooooo funny, man. Nicely done, bro. I haven't laughed al day until I read that one.

Secondly, big props on the "How bad does it have to be to get those hippies angry with you" comment about Holmy. Was funny, as well. He's way overrated, along with Shanahannahan or howvere you spell it. Both those guys got lucky with having two hall of fame Qb's who basically handled the show on their own.

I am sad about Sharper and Glenn (seriously) because they did mean so much for our team, but it's just a reality. You get too sentimental in this cap-era of the NFL and you immediately send yourself to the bottom of your division every year. Gotta rotate them out after 2-3 years. Keep your QB, or maybe even keep your QB and your RB...but everybody else is gone after their rookie salaries run out and they hit "veteran" salary. Or, you suffer the consequence. Look at Indy: They're actually talking a trade (off and on) with Edgerrin James. I know he's been injured, but last time I checked the guy is still hammering it down our throats twice a year, as well as putting on a pretty good show against other teams, too. And they can't afford to keep Manning and James, while at the same time keeping Freeney and Harrison, etc. It'll be the same for Indy as it is for the Titans right now. At some point, you cut them loose and re-load with rookies and their cap-friendly salary ranges.

It's why we drafted Morency. Don;t really need him now, but just wait 'till our buddy Domanick and his agent go knocking on uncle Charley's door for a steep raise in the next few years. We gotta keep Carr. We gotta keep AJ. Dunta is defintely earning his salary, too. Tick, tick, tick. You can't keep all of them for what they want and for what the league allows with the cap.

Simple economics.

thegr8fan
04-25-2005, 12:24 AM
so if it is simple economics, how the heck does Washington do it every year? :hmmm:

but your right gp, most teams in the NFL keep their 2-3 stars, the rest are simply cap economic cuts, like them or not.

even Emmitt Smith had to play a couple of years on another team before coming back to retire a Cowboy. Montana, Young, Rice, sooner or later they simply have to move on to get the paycheck they think they deserve.

Grid
04-25-2005, 12:25 AM
Im hoping that we will be successful enough, and treat our players well enough, that we can be a team like the Steelers.

You dont see alot of the core Steelers leave the team in FA.. they keep their players for either their whole career, or the vast majority of it.

Errant Hothy
04-25-2005, 12:33 AM
Does anybody if Glenn asked, and I mean really asked the FO to seek a trade (Like calling Charley and sayign that he wants out)? Yes, I know that if he did it would probably have been a direct result of the Buchanon trade; but maybe this a mutuial feeling; and if it is why is Glenn not aking any flack only the FO?

I don't remember to many Pats fans complaining when Lawyer Milloy was let go, or when Ty Law was, or any of their other players?

In the new era of the NFL, a front office that nows how to work the cap and is able to make the right (both talent and dollr) decsisions is the one who guides a team to a Super Bowl. Not an aging CB.

TEXANS84
04-25-2005, 12:38 AM
From this mornings (Monday) Chronicle:

Glenn is in a more precarious position. With the arrival of cornerback Phillip Buchanon in last week's trade with the Raiders, Glenn has been given permission to negotiate with other teams. It seems unlikely he'll return as a backup to Buchanon.

Foreman and Sharper left as part of a linebacker shuffling in which free agent Morlon Greenwood was signed and Antwan Peek inserted as an outside linebacker.

The Texans finished last season 23rd in total defense and 16th in points allowed. They gave up just three touchdowns in their last four games and went 13 quarters without surrendering one. As Jason Babin and Dunta Robinson got better, as Seth Payne became more healthy, the Texans became more than respectable.

"That's the kind of defense I've wanted us to play since I got here," Capers said.

Now they're even better. They've got a pair of shutdown corners in Buchanon and Robinson. They've got two potential impact pass rushers on the outside in Babin and Peek. And if Johnson creates havoc, the Texans may be on their way to making Capers happy.

These moves guarantee them nothing. Ask them about the playoffs, and they remind you they've gotten better every year and that they play in one of the NFL's toughest divisions.

"I think we're right in the middle," Casserly said. "We're not New England, but we're not at the bottom, either. We were 7-9 last season and lost to Minnesota in overtime and Green Bay at the end of the fourth quarter.

"I think we can compete every week."LINK (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3150476)

ComstockLode
04-25-2005, 12:42 AM
so if it is simple economics, how the heck does Washington do it every year? :hmmm:

but your right gp, most teams in the NFL keep their 2-3 stars, the rest are simply cap economic cuts, like them or not.

even Emmitt Smith had to play a couple of years on another team before coming back to retire a Cowboy. Montana, Young, Rice, sooner or later they simply have to move on to get the paycheck they think they deserve.

Therein is the reason I am such a huge college football fan. Once a longhorn always a longhorn, even when they go on to do bigger and better things.

GP
04-25-2005, 12:57 AM
"so if it is simple economics, how the heck does Washington do it every year?" -- gr8fan

They DON'T. If I'm correct (and Vinny will let me know if I'm not, since he knows a heck of a lot more than I do about this stuff) Snyder pays players a large signing bonus that doesn't count against the cap, allowing the team to put off or even dispose of the cap implications that would normally result from paying that bonus out to the player in yearly sums via a yearly salary that figures into the cap restrictions. In short, pay the guy his salary (the bulk of it) as a "signing bonus" and then the remainder of his REAL salary is smaller and thus counts less against the actual cap. I think that's right, but I'm not sure.

It's why Lavar Arrington got so mad recently. He wanted a larger signing bonus after re-structuring his deal, and Snyder is fudging a little (many speculate). Arrington feels disrespected by this, and he's upset. Snyder, as well as the other owners, have to pay large signing bonuses out of their own pockets to get those "high quality" players since the cap can't allow for every player to get high dollars. If the cap didn't exist, we'd have a situation like they have in MLB: The Yankees can buy out all the star players and leave other teams in the cellar with the scraps. Snyder and Jones would do it, too...in a heartbeat. The cap can only be beaten by the signing bonus, but the signing bonus can hurt guys like Snyder if they lose too often. A losing team draws fewer revenues, and fewer revenues mean Snyder has to also tote the note for any stadium improvements, etc. Snyder is rich, but the money will eventually run out at some point if he keeps spending his own coin.

In my opinion, and we can gripe about losing Sharper and Glenn all we want, but the front office has calculators and they have guys who use those calculators really well. They know it, and we know it, too: At some point, you just cannot afford to keep ticket prices down, concession prices down, parking prices down, etc., if you bleed out money (whether it's revenues or the owner's personal finances) to star players because of sentimental reasons.

I don't see anybody crying over us cutting Matt Stevens. Nobody said, "Matt was one of the founding fathers of Texans football...we can't let him go!"

A lot of our concern about Sharper and Glenn is just as "greedy" as the motives behind the players, the agents, and the front office: We don't want to lose their skill. Period. We're scared about the ramifications on the field. Secondarily, we're sad that two quality PEOPLE are leaving, but mostly we want to win and we don't know if PB and TJ will be the improvement that the Texans are telling us they will be.

For now, we have to trust. Ain't no other team I want to be a fan of, that's for sure! I've seen more gambles pay off than fail, and I think PB has as good a shot as any to maintain or propel the secondary in the next few seasons.

NederlandTexan
04-25-2005, 03:00 AM
http://www.nflfans.com/draft/article.php?story=20050423062849657

AP reports with a pressing need at corner, CB Aaron Glenn could be re-acquired from the Houston Texans by the New York Jets for a pretty modest price. Sure, he's going to be 33 in mid-July, just before training camp begins. And, yes, he still has some of the most dubious hands of any corner in the NFL, and drops as many interceptions as he makes. But Glenn, who almost certainly would have to restructure his contract for the Jets, still had five pickoffs in 2004. He's had four or more interceptions in five of the past seven campaigns. Look at the other veteran corners still in the unemployment line, and suddenly, for the Jets, Glenn might not look like such a bad option.

cadahnic
04-25-2005, 03:13 AM
The sad and true fact is that if Glenn was not out this year then he would have been out next year. We cannot keep around aging players and pay them foolishly high salaries, our cap situation would start to resemble that of the Tennesse Titans. I would think that if we cannot move Glenn we are in a good enough place with cuts to be made on and after June1 that we can keep him on the team to mentor PB and D-Rob for one more year. Now with that said if NYJ offers anything 4th round or above Glenn is gone. Who knows we are creating a younger more explosive(hopefully) team. This is just the sad part of the salary cap you just have to get rid of aging players.

texman8
04-25-2005, 06:59 AM
Honestly, I believe the Steelers let alot of their FA sign with other teams; they just did a good job of replacing them thru draft. What was remarkable about their last season was that they had pretty much the same defensive personnel ( i.e. lousy CB's). They brought in a new D/C and he perform miracles.

noxiousdog
04-25-2005, 08:41 AM
Snyder pays players a large signing bonus that doesn't count against the cap, allowing the team to put off or even dispose of the cap implications that would normally result from paying that bonus out to the player in yearly sums via a yearly salary that figures into the cap restrictions.

This is not correct.

The signing bonus is amortized over the life of the contract.

For instance:
A player might get a 4 year deal with a 10M signing bonus that looks like this:
salary year 1: 1M
salary year 2: 2M
salary year 3: 3M
salary year 4: 6M

The cap numbers would be the following:
year 1: 1M + 2.5 (bonus) 3.5M
year 2: 2M + 2.5 (bonus) 4.5M
year 3: 3M + 2.5 (bonus) 5.5M
year 4: 6M + 2.5 (bonus) 8.5M

When a player is cut, all of his -bonus money- is counted against the cap, but his salary is not.

So you could cut our hypothetical after June 1 in year four and save 6M in cap.

There is more to it of course, but this is basically it.

chuckm
04-25-2005, 08:48 AM
I'm as big a Glenn fan as the next guy (bought my wife his battle red jersey for Christmas) but I don't have a big problem with this. The Texans would be foolish to get into the mode of paying older guys big money at a point in their career when production is slipping*...


* see Jeff Bagwell

Dilbert R.
04-25-2005, 09:07 AM
Watching the games - I can't see that Glenn's play is slipping. The enforcement of the 5 yard touch lead to alot of pass interfernce calls throughout the league. Aaron Glenn to me, still looks great. I think he is in the top section of corners in the league. That stated, I'd love to see him renegotiate his contract if necessary - and stay a Texan. I also want to see our front office give him proper respect - which he has earned. Trying to shop him now - smacks of disrespect. Now if Glenn is the one wanting the trade - I got him all wrong.

barzilla
04-25-2005, 09:14 AM
I think most people are forgetting that even if we do end up cutting him on June 1st we will have a whole list of players to choose from. I don't know if anyone great will be there (probably not), but if we cut Glenn (or trade him for a draft pick) we will have a lot of money left over from his contract, Sharper's, and Foreman's. We might have enough to add two or three solid players that could increase our depth on both sides of the ball. For instance, if the Bills can't find a taker for Travis Henry he likely could get cut. There could be some decent WRs available as well.

TexAntagonise
04-25-2005, 10:07 AM
When I first heard the news about Glenn, I thought CC had lost his mind. Then he fallowed that up with the pick of Travis Johnson (Thought Spears would have been better) I was sure of it. But after reading some good points put up on the board and a little time to reflect. I’m starting to feel better about it. I love Glenn and hate to see him go. I think he is one of the best corners to ever play in Houston. But time marches on.

When Glenn first came to Houston, CC compared his work ethic to D. Green (CB) of Washington. He went on to say that he though Glenn would have just as long of a career as Green, who played into his 40’s. Green moved inside as nickel back later in his career. I would love to see Glenn take on this roll but that doesn’t look like it is going to happen. Anyway, to my main point.

All the way back in the expansion draft. The Texans took THREE starters form the J E T S jets, jets, jets! Glenn, Coleman, and “One of the best young OT in the NFL.” (where he is today, NO CLUE!) I remember thinking that the Jets were going to be AWFUL. They finished that season 9-7 tied for first in their division. Just a little info for the Doom and Gloomers out there. :whew

Blake
04-25-2005, 10:12 AM
Trade Glenn for a draft pick, and sign Browner to play S. And Munoz to play T.

barzilla
04-25-2005, 11:17 AM
Trade Glenn for a draft pick, and sign Browner to play S. And Munoz to play T.

All of these sound wonderful, but really don't add up. How many starting offensive linemen were never drafted? I guess it could happen, but I'm leaning towards trusting 32 GMs and hundreds of scouts that passed on him. As for the draft pick, I wouldn't expect anything better than a sixth or seventh round pick. After all, teams know we will cut him on June 1st.

WildBlackBear32
04-25-2005, 11:26 AM
All of these sound wonderful, but really don't add up. How many starting offensive linemen were never drafted?

Don't know the exact numbers in the entire NFL, but 40% of the Pats starting line is undrafted.

Errant Hothy
04-25-2005, 11:32 AM
Trade Glenn for a draft pick, and sign Browner to play S. And Munoz to play T.

Browner was picked up by the Broncos, sorry that particular paln won't work.

Although I'd love to pickup extra picks for next year's draft.

CaptainPatriot
04-25-2005, 12:53 PM
According to the quote by the coach; one can deduce that Glenn is gone; no need for him.

(on safety Ceandris Brown) “When you get to this point in the draft, you are looking for guys with good height, weight, and speed that have had good productivity. When you take a defensive back at this point, you want a guy who can contribute on special teams. While they are learning the system they need to contribute on special teams. We feel Ceandris has those capabilities. We like for our guys to be able to play either way. If you look at Glenn Earl, Jammal Lord, and the young guys we have in the secondary, they have the size and speed that allows them to play either side. As you look at our secondary, we have a young secondary with exception of Marcus Coleman who is coming back at 31 years of age. We have some players that we think are ascending and still learning the system. Of course two starters in our secondary were rookies last season. We have also added Phillip Buchanon, who is young. Ceandris is going to fit in well with that group. It is exciting to have these young ascending players.”

houstontexans.com


Also GOOD Tackler!!! :thumbup

TexanDave
04-25-2005, 02:32 PM
I will be very disappointed if Glenn is gone.

Gilly
04-25-2005, 02:50 PM
how many crappy changes can one team possibly make in one Offseason? Is CC going crazy or something?

Vinny
04-25-2005, 02:54 PM
how many crappy changes can one team possibly make in one Offseason? Is CC going crazy or something?I'm fine with most all the changes. I think everyone crying and whining are going to look foolish when we strap them up. What are you yearning for anyway? One of the worst defenses in the NFL? If it's broke, I say fix it.

michaelm
04-25-2005, 03:22 PM
I think there may end up being more mental mistakes, and we may give up more big plays throughout the season, but I'm OK with the changes as well.
This D will not be a sit back and let the play come to them kind of D. With the upgraded speed, this D will be coming from all angles. I get the feeling that they are really going to be cut loose this year. Peek looks like a lock to start, but if not he should get a whole lot more playing time. Buchanan and Greenwood add to the overall team speed as well. Man, it may look ugly from time to time... especially early in the season, but it is going to be F. U. N. to watch! I, for one, am completely stoked! :whoohoo:

TexansJunkE
04-25-2005, 03:24 PM
AG is a fine corner, but he is getting older. There is nothing personel about winning , or business. (NE proves that every year by releasing players) I know there are some guys saying that the P-buc trade was not a good move, I like the pick-up....... is there such a thing with TOO many good CB's? As far as our D goes, it's looking good. We are getting younger, faster, and that will allow us to do more things. At first I was upset about the pass on DJ, but after I got out of my "Homer " mode, the TJ pick is starting to make sense. Many posts during the off season state we need to work on our D and O lines, we did that and certain fans are calling for heads to roll. If I remember right..........Sounds like last year?(About not moving up for ST) I didn't hear too much when D-rob almost and should have won the DROY. I have no doubt that DJ will be a good player, but we need to draft the needs of our team. I believe we did that. Good job CC.

ComstockLode
04-25-2005, 04:54 PM
I'm fine with most all the changes. I think everyone crying and whining are going to look foolish when we strap them up. What are you yearning for anyway? One of the worst defenses in the NFL? If it's broke, I say fix it.

Vinny do me a favor and step back away from the picture. Pretend you are a fan/scout of another team.

Now what kind of defense do you see next year with the following:
Robaire, Payne, Walker
Babin, Wong, Greenwood, Peek
Dunta,(whoever starts/rotates), Coleman, Buchanon


Do you see us stopping the run effectively? Do you see us being a top 15 defense? Do you see us as a bottom 10 defense?

What strengths do we really have? Do we even have a top 25 player in the league on defense?

wags
04-25-2005, 05:01 PM
Do we even have a top 25 player in the league on defense?

Yes. His name is Dunta Robinson.

D-ReK
04-25-2005, 05:05 PM
Vinny do me a favor and step back away from the picture. Pretend you are a fan/scout of another team.

Now what kind of defense do you see next year with the following:
Robaire, Payne, Walker
Babin, Wong, Greenwood, Peek
Dunta,(whoever starts/rotates), Coleman, Buchanon


Do you see us stopping the run effectively? Do you see us being a top 15 defense? Do you see us as a bottom 10 defense?

What strengths do we really have? Do we even have a top 25 player in the league on defense?

Quit worrying on how everything looks on paper...On paper, the Chargers were supposed to go 4-12 last season...On paper, the Redskins should've been in the playoffs...On paper, the Cowboys should've finished better than 6-10...Wait until you see how they actually play together in this system before you pass judgement on them...

texansfan4life
04-25-2005, 05:07 PM
glen will not play for texans nxt yr salary cap dump

ComstockLode
04-25-2005, 07:00 PM
Yes. His name is Dunta Robinson.

Uhhhh.... maybe in a couple of years, but I could easily name 25 defensive players I would rather have than Dunta.

ComstockLode
04-25-2005, 07:01 PM
Quit worrying on how everything looks on paper...On paper, the Chargers were supposed to go 4-12 last season...On paper, the Redskins should've been in the playoffs...On paper, the Cowboys should've finished better than 6-10...Wait until you see how they actually play together in this system before you pass judgement on them...

Chargers lucked out that a basketball player and Brees performed. Along with Foley :shocked

The cowboys had no QB, and no runningback for the majority of the year.

If you are basing our chances on luck, then our chances arent good on defense.

ojthecat
04-25-2005, 07:05 PM
Uhhhh.... maybe in a couple of years, but I could easily name 25 defensive players I would rather have than Dunta.

Ok I call BS on that one. Name them. :listening

ComstockLode
04-25-2005, 07:21 PM
Ok I call BS on that one. Name them. :listening

No problem... This is actually fairly easy.

Ray Lewis
Derrick Brooks
Lavar Arrington
Takeo Spikes
Dwight Freeney
Simeon Rice
Julius Peppers
Terrel Suggs
Jevon Kearse
Joey Porter
La'roi Glover
Roy Williams
Ed Reed
Zach Thomas
K. Gbaja-Biamila
Jason Taylor
John Abraham
James Farrior
Tedy Bruschi
Troy Palamalu
Chris McAllister
Champ Bailey
Marcus Stroud
Richard Seymour
Patrick Kerney
Casey Hampton
Shaun Rogers
Keith Brooking
Jeremiah Trotter
Brian Dawkins
Dan Morgan

That is more than 25. I would rather have all 25 of these players over Dunta for one year. Obviously not for the future, because Dunta will be in this class in a couple of years, but for this year I would take all of the above.

DocBar
04-25-2005, 07:36 PM
I'm fine with most all the changes. I think everyone crying and whining are going to look foolish when we strap them up. What are you yearning for anyway? One of the worst defenses in the NFL? If it's broke, I say fix it.
No kidding there. Some would say if it ain't broke, fix it til it is.LOL
We'll live without AG and might possibly thrive. I'd like to keep him 1 more year, but business is business and lifespan in the NFL is short. 33 is getting old. He's been a fine, upstanding player for us and I wish him the best, regardless of what happens.

Vinny
04-25-2005, 07:36 PM
I wouldn't touch quite a few of them over Dunta. An OLD Zach Thomas? KGB? are you kidding me? James Farrior? lol

DocBar
04-25-2005, 07:41 PM
Uhhhh.... maybe in a couple of years, but I could easily name 25 defensive players I would rather have than Dunta.
Taken a drug test lately?? I've read your list, and it has some great players on it. DROB should ALREADY be on that list. He was roughed up early in the year, but really put it the other guys after that. I WOULD, however, take ANY of those on your list over any of our DL from last year.

Panther5407
04-25-2005, 07:41 PM
Ok, would anyone actually take Chris McAllister over Dunta?

ComstockLode
04-25-2005, 07:49 PM
I wouldn't touch quite a few of them over Dunta. An OLD Zach Thomas? KGB? are you kidding me? James Farrior? lol

Zach Thomas: Age 31: Stats: 145 Tackles.... This may be a stretch in some regards, but I love a run stuffing Linebacker.

KGB: Pro Bowler.... had 14 sacks last season and gets better every year.

James Farrior: Pro Bowler 95 tackles 3 sacks 3FF 4INT 12 Pass Defl.

texan279
04-25-2005, 07:50 PM
Texans | Glenn Permitted to Seek Trade; Release Could Happen - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:48:17 -0700

ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli reports the Houston Texans have granted CB Aaron Glenn permission to seek a trade with a limited number of other teams. If a trade is not able to be worked out, Glenn is likely to be released as early as Tuesday, April 26.

ComstockLode
04-25-2005, 07:51 PM
Ok, would anyone actually take Chris McAllister over Dunta?

I am only talking about next year, not the future. And yes, I would. Try not to see through the red and blue glasses only, since everyone accuses me of seeing through orange ones.

Trapped
04-25-2005, 07:54 PM
comstockelode, what does a top 25 player on defense have to do with anything?

I think we have a better defense this year than last year. And that is what matters. Were making progress, oh yeah, of the 25 players u mentioned, none of them were available in FA with the exception of Trotter and some were on the trading block. Since u think having a top 25 defender is so important, what do u want Casserly to do? Steal those guys away from other teams?

Greenwood replacing Sharper, Buchanon replacing Glenn, and eventually Travis Johnson replacing G.Walker were great moves on defense. We turn our oldest players on defense into virtually our youngest players on defense without losing quality in my opinion.

texasguy346
04-25-2005, 07:57 PM
If DRob doesn't fit into the "Top 25 Defenders" then I don't see how either Glenn, Sharper, Foreman, or Brown would fit either. That would mean we didn't have a Top 25 Defender last year or this year. I'm not understanding your argument.

Panther5407
04-25-2005, 07:59 PM
I am only talking about next year, not the future. And yes, I would. Try not to see through the red and blue glasses only, since everyone accuses me of seeing through orange ones.

I love the Ravens (i was actually a raven in katy little leauge), but never liked Chris. Look at what Dunta did with a around average team around him in his rookie year compared to Chris with players like Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Suggs, and so on. Chris has not shown that he could be the next all everything shut down corner, Dunta has. When has Chris elevated his level when getting pounded and stopped a 250+ pound FB and plant him in the ground? Talking about right now, Dunta would be my choice of the two, no doubt about it. Talking about the future, Dunta once again would be an easy choice. Its no contest.

DocBar
04-25-2005, 08:02 PM
I like the way our D is shaping up on paper. Foreman was, at best, a good backup, and Sharper was nowhere near as disruptive as he should(COULD?) have been. I wish them well, but good riddance. AG is another story, but I wonder(as I have posted before) how much of this is because his feelings are hurt about PB? If that IS the case, maybe he isn't the stand up guy we think he is, and was a "class" act because of all the adulation poured on him from adoring fans. I'm just throwing this out there for speculation. I'm probably full of it, but it IS food for thought.

ComstockLode
04-25-2005, 08:08 PM
If DRob doesn't fit into the "Top 25 Defenders" then I don't see how either Glenn, Sharper, Foreman, or Brown would fit either. That would mean we didn't have a Top 25 Defender last year or this year. I'm not understanding your argument.

That is my point. Our defense will still suck. We lose our best run stuffer, and we replace aaron glenn with buchanon who has potential, but is no sure thing.

Houston:
23rd Overall Defense
22nd Overall Passing Defense
13th Rushing Defense (With Sharper gone this gets worse, coupled with the fact that 3 of our 4 LBs are former DEs....and we havent seen Peek in rushing defense)
17th in Turnovers (Lose Aaron Glenn's 5 INTs)

DocBar
04-25-2005, 08:16 PM
[13th Rushing Defense (With Sharper gone this gets worse, coupled with the fact that 3 of our 4 LBs are former DEs....and we havent seen Peek in rushing defense)
17th in Turnovers (Lose Aaron Glenn's 5 INTs)[/QUOTE]
How many tackles did Sharper have BTLOS? Most of his tackles were 5 yrds down the field. We're going in the right direction!!! :soapbox:

AndreJ
04-25-2005, 08:19 PM
That is my point. Our defense will still suck. We lose our best run stuffer, and we replace aaron glenn with buchanon who has potential, but is no sure thing.

Houston:
23rd Overall Defense
22nd Overall Passing Defense
13th Rushing Defense (With Sharper gone this gets worse, coupled with the fact that 3 of our 4 LBs are former DEs....and we havent seen Peek in rushing defense)
17th in Turnovers (Lose Aaron Glenn's 5 INTs)

Unless you have a magic 8ball how do you know that our Run D will get worse, just because we lost Foreman and Sharper. Our starting four LBs are still not "set" and we don't know exactly who will be playing where, although we have a pretty good idea. You have no idea how Greenwood will perform, you dont know if Babin will step his game up and we dont know how Peek will work out. Wong is about the only LB who we have an idea of how much production he will bring and he'll most likely be in a new position than last year.

As for Aaron Glenn (assuming he is given the boot), how do we know Buchannon wont come in and match his 5 ints or even get more. The guy has had a change of scenery and has alot to prove.

I just don't see how you can say our D will end up next year without even seeing them play in the pre-season atleast. You can call me a homer or whatever you want, but i just try and look at the positives and have hope for the future. I find it less stressing than worrying about why we let Sharper and Foreman and maybe Glenn go. Especially when I haven't seen how there replacements will perform.....Just my 2 cents.

texasguy346
04-25-2005, 08:26 PM
That is my point. Our defense will still suck. We lose our best run stuffer, and we replace aaron glenn with buchanon who has potential, but is no sure thing.

Houston:
23rd Overall Defense
22nd Overall Passing Defense
13th Rushing Defense (With Sharper gone this gets worse, coupled with the fact that 3 of our 4 LBs are former DEs....and we havent seen Peek in rushing defense)
17th in Turnovers (Lose Aaron Glenn's 5 INTs)

Our defense played very well last season with guys like Coleman out. Why? Because DRob, Peek, and Babin were really coming on strong. This upcoming season we likely won't be starting any rookies on defense, and we'll have young guys like TJ coming in to keep the other DLinemen fresher. I'm not saying we'll be excellent on defense next season, but also I'm not prepared to say we're going to stink either. On paper, Oakland looked to have a dominant defense last season. However, things worked out quite to the contrary. On paper, San Diego looked to have a bad defense last season. They were switching to the 3-4, and no one had really heard of guys like Jammal Williams. The point being that you can't tell how a unit is going to perform just based on the fact they don't have any names you recognize. You've got to wait till these guys at least get a chance to play together before you can make an accurate evaluation.

profan
04-25-2005, 08:26 PM
[QUOTE=ComstockLode]That is my point. Our defense will still suck. We lose our best run stuffer, and we replace aaron glenn with buchanon who has potential, but is no sure thing.

Sharper should have been our best run stuffer and whoever takes his place will become our best run stuffer. AG was not our best cb last year and got burned numeruos times. Roy Williams made him look his age. I'm glad to see the moves to make this defense better, because for the last two years our defense has just been bad. I see this defense developing into one of the best in the conference. Time will tell.

outofhnd
04-25-2005, 08:31 PM
This is not the old NFL we all grew up with this is the New NFL. Just because we got rid of our pricey players doesn't condemn us to failure. New England cut Ty Law and Bruschi is out for the year yet I do not hear people talking about how the patriots D is gonna be weak next year.

I like the moves myself it tells me we are a time comitted to building thru the draft not building on the parts we got in the expansion draft. Remember teams made the choice to send these players to us and not keep em on their roster in 02.

Our D will be somewhat better as long as our line can take up blockers. Thats all we need to change QB hurries into QB sacks. Glenn was a good corner great guy but this is a business. He knows that. Considering Capers and casserly have gotten us this far is big statement considering the fact the panthers in year went into a big decline.

AndreJ
04-25-2005, 08:32 PM
Our defense played very well last season with guys like Coleman out. Why? Because DRob, Peek, and Babin were really coming on strong. This upcoming season we likely won't be starting any rookies on defense, and we'll have young guys like TJ coming in to keep the other DLinemen fresher. I'm not saying we'll be excellent on defense next season, but also I'm not prepared to say we're going to stink either. On paper, Oakland looked to have a dominant defense last season. However, things worked out quite to the contrary. On paper, San Diego looked to have a bad defense last season. They were switching to the 3-4, and no one had really heard of guys like Jammal Williams. The point being that you can't tell how a unit is going to perform just based on the fact they don't have any names you recognize. You've got to wait till these guys at least get a chance to play together before you can make an accurate evaluation.

Although i tried, i couldn't have said it any better myself.

texasguy346
04-25-2005, 08:34 PM
Just for further evidence that having a Top 25 player doesn't = A good defense just look at some of the teams of the players on your list. KGB and the Packers had one of the worst defenses in the NFL. Yet the Washington Redskins managed to have one of the best defenses despite having Lavaar Arrington (there Top 25 Defensive player) out for much of the year with a leg injury. The defense is a unit, and it's predicated upon all 11 players playing well together as well as having a good scheme/D-Coordinator. There's more to a team than the marquee names you see on paper. This is especially true on the defensive side of the ball.

AndreJ
04-25-2005, 08:40 PM
Just for further evidence that having a Top 25 player doesn't = A good defense just look at some of the teams of the players on your list. KGB and the Packers had one of the worst defenses in the NFL. Yet the Washington Redskins managed to have one of the best defenses despite having Lavaar Arrington (there Top 25 Defensive player) out for much of the year with a leg injury. The defense is a unit, and it's predicated upon all 11 players playing well together as well as having a good scheme/D-Coordinator. There's more to a team than the marquee names you see on paper. This is especially true on the defensive side of the ball.

I would like to think that the New England Patriots are a good example of this. With the exception of Ty Law who was realeased. There is not really one outstanding player on their defense, but a number of good players who work and play as a team together. I would say without a doubt they have one of the best Ds in the league along with Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Philly.
i also find it interesting that when the Patriots come out of the tunnel for a football game they are announced as a team and not individually.

DocBar
04-25-2005, 08:43 PM
Our D will be somewhat better as long as our line can take up blockers. Thats all we need to change QB hurries into QB sacks. Glenn was a good corner great guy but this is a business. He knows that. Considering Capers and casserly have gotten us this far is big statement considering the fact the panthers in year went into a big decline.
IMHO, our entire team will be better in '05. We've made some needed moves to shake things up and send a message. Our veterans we've aquired through the expansion draft and FA have pretty much been able to rest easy, knowing there was no serious competition. Not true any more.We have had some excellent drafts since '02 and management and coaching staff seem to be on the same page. I don't see them making any panicky moves. Everything seems methodical and well thought out. Remember...they know things behind the scenes we aren't privy to. These boards are fun and all, but 99.9% of us are talking out our collective wazoo's. We're a brand new team. We need time to evaluate talent, add depth and make moves without crippling further developement under the ALMIGHTY SALARY CAP. "If ya don't perform, ya don't get paid" is a great motto IMO.
:soapbox:

DocBar
04-25-2005, 08:46 PM
The defense is a unit, and it's predicated upon all 11 players playing well together as well as having a good scheme/D-Coordinator. There's more to a team than the marquee names you see on paper. This is especially true on the defensive side of the ball.
I disagree with the underlined. IMO it is especially true on the OL. That's why I'm sooooooooo happy we didn't mess with it this offseason.

TexanExile
04-25-2005, 09:36 PM
Just so I'm clear on this, then...it's OK to make drastic changes to a "broken" defense, but not to a "broken" O-line? When both can be statistically described as pretty bad in '04?

Wolf
04-25-2005, 09:50 PM
I am hoping that Glenn stays.. why? you ask.. we need a legit 3rd corner..

we gave up a whopping 43.4% on 3rd down conversions.. Yes, TE's killed us.. but also no pass rush.. I would rather see Buchanon and Glenn match up on the two Wr's and Drob either blitz or match up on the slot WR.... Hopefully Glenn will stay on the team (either on his wishes or the teams)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TOTAL/2004/regular?sort_col_1=4&_1:col_1=9

Boxscore
04-25-2005, 10:08 PM
I am going to miss Aaron Glenn on this team. He was a class act. I do not know what to think about Phillip Buchanan as of yet. I have heard that he has some bad baggage. Just a matter of time when the Texan decisions turn up some bad apples.

DocBar
04-25-2005, 11:03 PM
Just so I'm clear on this, then...it's OK to make drastic changes to a "broken" defense, but not to a "broken" O-line? When both can be statistically described as pretty bad in '04?
The "broken" offense had a line that was brand new and in a new scheme. The D has much the same problem. It is easier to plug and play on D than on O. Especially the OL. These guys need time to learn each other and the scheme. Apples and Oranges.

ComstockLode
04-26-2005, 12:34 AM
I think we are beating a dead horse, I hope you guys are right. Neither one of us are willing to concede anything on our views.

I am done with this argument, and once the season starts we can revisit this conversation so one of us can get in their I told you so's....