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Sudds
04-24-2005, 06:22 PM
I feel so bad for this kid. After all he's been through the past three seasons with one of the worst O-lines in history, he continues to see his GM pass-up any quality OT or OG position players. Carr now has to go into camp, knowing that he will be playing with the same exact line that almost killed him last year. Where is the love CC? Why are the brass of the Texans not trying to save the life of their franchise QB? Are they taking for granted that the kid will continue to rise after each blow? Sooner or later, poor Carr will not be getting up and we can thank CC for that. I love the man, but why haven't they drafted a franchise LT yet?

Trapped
04-24-2005, 06:26 PM
the Texans made drastic improvements in the 1st year to 2nd year. Then fell off again in the 3rd year due to a NEW LT, LG, RT, and an injury RG position. Also the system was new to all the players. I think Casserly and Capers on banking on them making the same improvement with the Scheme and development.

TopTexanFan16
04-24-2005, 06:37 PM
Sudds "Carr now has to go into camp, knowing that he will be playing with the same exact line that almost killed him last year. Where is the love CC? "

would u rather carr be goin into mini camp with a rookie offensive linemen who hasnt proven he can play at teh next level? I mean come on get real u have to let time for new players in a new system to gel. 03 he only had 15 sacks and then just like trapped said we got all new guys. i think it'll be alot better this year plus we did pick up a center that can play guard but i doubt he'll be a starter unless he proves in training camp he can be

nunusguy
04-24-2005, 06:39 PM
To me one of the biggest surprises of the Draft is that all we selected in
the way of Offensive Line was a 5th rounder, especially after we ended up with no FA OL acquisisions.

Davis37
04-24-2005, 06:58 PM
the Texans made drastic improvements in the 1st year to 2nd year. Then fell off again in the 3rd year due to a NEW LT, LG, RT, and an injury RG position. Also the system was new to all the players. I think Casserly and Capers on banking on them making the same improvement with the Scheme and development.

The RUNNING system was new to all the players... Zone blocking has nothing to do with passing protection. I seriously hope we can freakin block some1 this year... They should sign me!!! Ill cut the damn DE's legs out everytime! Good lord, its not that hard to give Carr 2-3 seconds to throw the ball!

bckey
04-24-2005, 07:35 PM
would u rather carr be goin into mini camp with a rookie offensive linemen who hasnt proven he can play at teh next level? I mean come on get real u have to let time for new players in a new system to gel. 03 he only had 15 sacks and then just like trapped said we got all new guys. i think it'll be alot better this year plus we did pick up a center that can play guard but i doubt he'll be a starter unless he proves in training camp he can be


2002-76 SACKS
2003-36 SACKS
2004-49 SACKS

At some point you have to draft OL for the future. If you draft some this year then realistically the Texans are looking a couple of years ahead. So every year that we don't draft OL is just setting us back further.

I like Phillip Buchanon alot but it may have been better for us to keep our draft picks and Glenn and try and add depth. When we trade 2 picks for a player and then cut a starter for a spot for that player then we didn't do anything but get younger not necessarily smarter and no depth was added as a result. I realize we want speed but Glenn is a very savy cb. We did the same thing with Sharper. Instead of adding depth we replace the starter completely.

To me if we were going to treat any players this way it should have been Gfunk and McKinney. Now that would be an upgrade.

TheOgre
04-24-2005, 07:51 PM
I think 2006 will net us the LT we have coveted.

I read somewhere a few weeks ago that regardless of the draft, that we plan on making pass-blocking adjustments like we did between years 1 and 2. I think Wand will be an adequate pass-blocker this year. I expect him to half the number of sacks he allowed. Pitts should be better in only his second year ever playing OG. Hopefully Wiegert and Wade can stay healthy. Injuries contributed to our poor play.

TopTexanFan16
04-24-2005, 08:12 PM
hulk "No lineman on our team has ever had to battle for a spot, thats why Iam pumped up to see how this arizona st. guy worksout"

if im not mistaken which i may be but im pretty sure we draft or sign un drafted free agents each year to battle for there pisitions but never to but im not sure if we do. and anyways ur right there just rookies we dont ever make a psuh for big name guys which in my opinion in this case we should give the OL 1 more year to gel.

keyfro
04-24-2005, 08:20 PM
we can still pick up munoz and wilkerson to give you guys some o-lineman to play with...but no one in this draft was gonna beat out our starters because capers and casserly seem to be content with the o-line at this point...they think the seth wand will be a franchise LT...i have my doubts but they don't and they run the show

Vinny
04-24-2005, 08:20 PM
3 of our 5 linemen were veteran FA signings. Of course they signed as starters. Carr never battled for his spot either ya know.

F-minus67
04-24-2005, 08:23 PM
The reason why the team has not gotten a top LT is because none have come out since we have had a team in houston. We had Boselli, but we all know to we what happened there. I mean look at our past drafts, would you pick any of the Tackles over our picks? We couldn't get Bryant McKinney because we drafted Carr and by the looks of it Carr is going to be better. Then we picked Andre Johnson over Jordan Gross and Gross is getting moved back to RT next year. Then we didn't have the fire power to move up to get Robert Gallery, besides would you rather have Dunta or Gallery? Then this year we didn't pick Barron because he is very over rated. If we do get an LT it will be next year because, the draft has 4 first round LTs; D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Eric Winston, Jonathan Scott and Marcus McNeill.

Davis37
04-24-2005, 08:24 PM
3 of our 5 linemen were veteran FA signings. Of course they signed as starters. Carr never battled for his spot either ya know.

Yeah, I think we should sign Ryan Leaf to come in and compete with Carr! :rofl:

TopTexanFan16
04-24-2005, 09:20 PM
vinny "3 of our 5 linemen were veteran FA signings. Of course they signed as starters."

no wat i meant was we sign un drafted rookie free agents or draft some each year to compete with our CURRENT starters right now. thats wat i was saying

CowboysTexansFan
04-24-2005, 10:42 PM
I'm very disappointed in the team's offseason so far, because the front office has done squat to upgrade the offensive line, which to me was (and remains) the team's biggest weakness.

Compare the way Houston has handled its offseason with the way Dallas took care of business in both the draft AND free agency. I give the team credit for trying to land Orlando Pace, but the fact is, our offensive line stinks. If the team was unsuccessful in upgrading the unit through free agency, it was imperative to upgrade it via the draft, which obviously wasn't done.

What is the point of having a franchise quarterback if you can't protect him? If Carr gets seriously injured, how difficult is it going to be to get another player of his caliber?

Buchanan seems like a good player, but cornerback was not the most pressing need on the team. If the team was going to trade its second and third picks for a veteran, why didn't they get better players on the offensive line? Buchanan may be an upgrade over Aaron Glenn, but McKinney and several of his cohorts on the line need to be upgraded far more than Glenn.

The coaches and Charlie Casserly love to talk about how the pass protection will be better due to the improvement of the existing players and new schemes, etc., and I hope for the sake of Carr and the team that proves to be the case. John McClain has said on several occasions that all the coaches deserve to get fired if the pass protection doesn't improve, and I agree with that, except I think Casserly should be included on that list as well.

Casserly has done absolutely nothing so far to improve the offensive line thus far.

Texanshot
04-24-2005, 10:47 PM
I am a big huge texans fan.....BUT why didn't we get anymore offensive line help for david? maybe next year?????? i know this year isn't very deep as far as picks go......

I will wait to judge but still not very happy.......

Dionysus22
04-24-2005, 10:51 PM
Do you guys get the feeling that C.C. and the boys are letting DC take the initial blows while they figure this thing out and put all the pieces together? Then when everything thing is beautiful and the line is a machine and weapons all around....BAM!! They throw in Ragone and leave DC to deal with FA. Look what happened when the Pats were rebuilding. Bledsoe was getting killed with these experimental lines and schemes. Then it started to come together and....BAM! Bledsoe has a little set back with an injury then the next thing you know here comes the new poster boy they've been saving while building and letting DB get beat up. And we all know where this story ends up.... :hmmm:

WWJD
04-24-2005, 10:52 PM
I think the O line is a weak link in a team that is growing stronger at every other unit. I guess I'll take the view that you build slowly and the emphasis was to do something with the defense this year.

I've been harsh on the O line which is unfair since they haven't played one down in one game yet. What I THINK I see and interpret the powers that be may not. Best to give them a chance and see if they will do well or poorly and then make comments. Capers is most definitely a defensive minded coach though. We'll see.

As for the Cowboys they've taken the same approach it seems. Build on defense. Very nice draft for them.

I'm going to read up more on the Texans new guys. I just don't know enough but my initial reaction was disappointment.

OzzO
04-24-2005, 11:01 PM
If Bob McNair said last season one of the offseason priorities was to get better protection for Carr, I'm sure it has been discussed.

rhc564
04-24-2005, 11:16 PM
"u have to let time for new players in a new system to gel."

We all have had this thought enshrined in our memories by so many posters
on this board, making a fan wonder if the Texans will ever solve/over-
come this time issue. Are the Texans just in a perpetual state of existence
that--maybe by design--is never ending? Or, are the Texans right around
the corner from solving their time nemisis?

Several other teams (Miami,Cleveland,Dallas,etc.) are making 'major' changes
to their teams this year, even the Patriots are a "shell" of the team that won
the Super Bowl this year, so it will be interesting to see how their showing
on the field is affected by the 'lack' of time to gel! :listening

Vinny
04-24-2005, 11:21 PM
Those teams had a foundation of players in place. We have just started to build ours. There is a difference in rebuilding a unit and starting one up from air. One takes longer than the other. We are finally deep enough to be a legit playoff contender this year. Bashing the team for not competing before this season is weak. We have the same record the 15-1 Steelers had the year before this last season.

rhc564
04-24-2005, 11:33 PM
....and just what part of my post was bashing? I made observations and
ask questions without reference to any 'person(s). :confused:

keyfro
04-24-2005, 11:36 PM
that's why i think when it's all done and said with we'll pick up munoz...we need more depth at tackle and he would be a good pick up there...i could also see us trading glenn for o-line help if he is admitt on leaving houston

Hervoyel
04-24-2005, 11:36 PM
I think the number of people out there who have any idea at all what's going on with the Texans O-line is very small. I see people advocating replacing players who've had one year at their position. I see people talking about replacing players who were injured part of last season. I see people claiming that the new run blocking scheme caused the bad pass protection as well as people claiming that it had nothing to do with the bad pass protection (their both half right), and now I'm even seeng conspiracy theories where David Carr is supposed to be taking the fall while the Texans implement a multi-year plan to build an O-line.

I'm done talking offensive line with anyone in here. I can count on one hand the number of people I know who even get what they're looking at.

rhc564
04-25-2005, 12:14 AM
:) I find it odd that people still use the "foundation construction" defense for a team these days, especially teams going on 4 years old. Since the salary cap makes virtually the entire league a crapshoot every offseason, how is it that the Texans "core team" is any less established than say the Bears? the 49ers? the Browns? or any other team that actually addressed its needs in this draft?

When will the Texans lose the "expansion" label that protects some rather horrible decisions by its front office? Bottom line...you give Jimmy Johnson 4 years of building...and we just might be calling the Texans a Super Bowl champ...rather than a "work in progress".

I'm tired of this label. The Texans have outgrown the "baby steps". It's time for some real accountability. The end result is, our "core team" is made up of some crappy guys...not because the opportunity to upgrade hasn't been there...it's because the front office has made some questionable decisions.

Disclaimer : Bashing not intended with the opinions above. They're simply opinions.

Excellent post! :thumbup

texman8
04-25-2005, 12:14 AM
Sorry, Jimmie Johnson isn't leaving his cushy job on Tv. He loves it in Fla. He didn't do so hot with Miami. If Minnesota GM didn't trade all those picks for Herschell (sp?) Walker; maybe the Aikman ,Irwin , Smith troika would not have happen . Give him credit,though.

rhc564
04-25-2005, 01:50 AM
If core/fondation/time/gel are so important in the scheme of things for
the Texans, why is the defense being overhauled from year 1 to year 4--
not talking about the replacement of 1 or 2 players but virtually the entire
starting defense--and, of the few still here, several are on the way out!

Core. Foundation. Maybe it's just me but I don't see it... :hmmm:

TexFan58
04-25-2005, 10:07 AM
Draft To Carr!! Get More Pads

WWJD
04-25-2005, 12:26 PM
Sorry, Jimmie Johnson isn't leaving his cushy job on Tv. He loves it in Fla. He didn't do so hot with Miami. If Minnesota GM didn't trade all those picks for Herschell (sp?) Walker; maybe the Aikman ,Irwin , Smith troika would not have happen . Give him credit,though.


What's a "troika"? Just curious.

Irvin was a Landry pick by the way.

canadiantexan
04-25-2005, 01:05 PM
Why reach on someone in this draft to help our O-Line when there is no one even close to a "can't miss prospect" in this draft. With Pitts having a year under his belt and our O-Line one more year to play in this system (and with each other) our O-line should improve this year, oh and Hodskin will challenge McKinny alot faster than people think. Futhermore we have added a 3rd rounder next year in the Saints deal that we could use to move up and aquire the franchise LT that we need without having to give up all our first day picks.

CaptainPatriot
04-25-2005, 01:14 PM
To me one of the biggest surprises of the Draft is that all we selected in
the way of Offensive Line was a 5th rounder, especially after we ended up with no FA OL acquisisions.

I totally agree!!!

CaptainPatriot
04-25-2005, 01:17 PM
I feel so bad for this kid. After all he's been through the past three seasons with one of the worst O-lines in history, he continues to see his GM pass-up any quality OT or OG position players. Carr now has to go into camp, knowing that he will be playing with the same exact line that almost killed him last year. Where is the love CC? Why are the brass of the Texans not trying to save the life of their franchise QB? Are they taking for granted that the kid will continue to rise after each blow? Sooner or later, poor Carr will not be getting up and we can thank CC for that. I love the man, but why haven't they drafted a franchise LT yet?


I am with you. But it is hard to get a Franchise LT. At least pick a O-Lineman in first 2 picks. Oh that`s right Texans gaveup a 2nd for a CB they didn`t need this yr! :thumbdown

CaptainPatriot
04-25-2005, 01:40 PM
Those teams had a foundation of players in place. We have just started to build ours. There is a difference in rebuilding a unit and starting one up from air. One takes longer than the other. We are finally deep enough to be a legit playoff contender this year. Bashing the team for not competing before this season is weak. We have the same record the 15-1 Steelers had the year before this last season.


Thats more of a reason to draft high on Linemen both sides of the ball. Plus FA then build the rest of your team. 2003 an 2004 drafts not 1 O-Linemen taking!
:thumbdown

keyfro
04-25-2005, 01:50 PM
i think if we sign munoz a lot of people on the board will quiet down a little...the guy was a stud LT at tennessee he just couldn't stay healthy...if we bring him in he'll ride the pine for a year...he'll stay healthy...and he'll be given every chance to challenge wand for the starting job next year...i would have more faith in him coming in for a injuried player than i would jones, or beaslyman whoever he is...i think c.j. brooks is still available...he was good at maryland...last year this time he was rated on of the highest G/T's and i never understood why he fell the way he did...he could come in and add competition...and then you have the june 1st cuts...no telling who will be avaible we can always pick up a lineman or two

TheOgre
04-25-2005, 01:56 PM
A few things appear clear:

1. Apparently most of the veterans that were added to our team in 2002 (expansion draft, FA's, and trades) were fillers until we could replace them.

2. We have built the foundation of our team with our 1st round picks:
AJ, Dunte, Carr, Babin

3. Many of our draft picks are either disappointments or slow to develop:
Charles Hill (bust), Joppru, Hollings, Peek, Wand, Pitts, Milford Brown, Weary, and Gaffney. I'll give Pitts a break because he switched to a new position last year.

4. We have only unearthed a couple of surprises:
DD, Faggins

We really need more hits in the 2nd round and we need some of these "projects" to near completion.

Vinny
04-25-2005, 02:00 PM
Thats more of a reason to draft high on Linemen both sides of the ball. Plus FA then build the rest of your team. 2003 an 2004 drafts not 1 O-Linemen taking!
:thumbdownWhat you are saying is we should have drafted Shawn Andrews over Dunta Robinson and Jordan Gross over Andre Johnson. I'm glad you aren't running this team.

rhc564
04-25-2005, 03:38 PM
"finally deep enough to be a legit playoff contender this year"

1) new linebackers/sacks?
2) DL--pressure/tie-up?
3) OL--protect Carr/open holes?
4) RB--healthy/16 game production?
5) DB--reduce TD's/yardage?
6) TE--production?

Without addressing any other concerns--like game planning,play calling,
real time game adjustments,etc.--some of you are expecting the Texans
to do in one year what they have not come close to doing in 3! I know the
time is running out on the 5 year plan but that does not translate into
so many pieces of the puzzle coming together 'over night.' How can you
assume that the DL and OL will come together and get the results we need
to be a 'playoff' contender when--so far--they haven't even performed
with minimal 'acceptable' results?

Other posts have talked ahout how we are starting over on defense and
are automatically adding years to the 5 yr plan, while the OL will either be
'feast or famine.' We better get a 'feast' because a 'famine' would be
devastating...here's hoping it all comes together this year!! :thumbup

Vinny
04-25-2005, 03:44 PM
What team are you a fan of? All your posts dog the team. I'm kinda wondering.

infantrycak
04-25-2005, 04:38 PM
"finally deep enough to be a legit playoff contender this year"

1) new linebackers/sacks?
2) DL--pressure/tie-up?
3) OL--protect Carr/open holes?
4) RB--healthy/16 game production?
5) DB--reduce TD's/yardage?
6) TE--production?

Without addressing any other concerns--like game planning,play calling,
real time game adjustments,etc.--some of you are expecting the Texans
to do in one year what they have not come close to doing in 3! I know the
time is running out on the 5 year plan but that does not translate into
so many pieces of the puzzle coming together 'over night.' How can you
assume that the DL and OL will come together and get the results we need
to be a 'playoff' contender when--so far--they haven't even performed
with minimal 'acceptable' results?

Other posts have talked ahout how we are starting over on defense and
are automatically adding years to the 5 yr plan, while the OL will either be
'feast or famine.' We better get a 'feast' because a 'famine' would be
devastating...here's hoping it all comes together this year!! :thumbup


I agree completely. The only way to build a team is to fire players, trade away picks and get lots of free agents.

Signed-Dan "zero superbowl rings" Snyder

rhc564
04-25-2005, 05:07 PM
'Signed-Dan "zero superbowl rings" Snyder'

...let me guess, your favorite show is Comedy Central, right?

rhc564
04-25-2005, 05:09 PM
"only way to build a team is to fire players, trade away picks and get lots of free agents."

...you're right, we've done all 3 of those recently--good observation!

infantrycak
04-25-2005, 05:16 PM
"only way to build a team is to fire players, trade away picks and get lots of free agents."

...you're right, we've done all 3 of those recently--good observation!

One above minimum contract acquisition is lots of free agents?

Do you have any solutions or just complaints?

And no I don't watch Comedy Central except for the occasional South Park.

DRIFTAWAY
04-25-2005, 08:17 PM
I have been wondering and thinking if Carr would leave Houston? What if some bigger market city wanted him, he might go to raise awareness of the diabetes thing he is starting. He is also looking around the league and noticing all these nice targets other young qb's are getting, and the kind of offensive line being put around them. If Houston can't find a way to win by the time his contract expires, I think theres a good deal of chance he might leave. Lets not also forget the beer on his wife incident.

CowboysTexansFan
04-25-2005, 08:28 PM
Good post, Driftaway. I'm a PSL holder and huge Texans fan, but if the offensive line does another pathetic job this year while the O-linemen continue to "develop", I wouldn't blame Carr at all for wanting to leave. What is more important, protecting the franchise quarterback or throwing him to the wolves while Wand and others are allowed time to develop?

I see too many apologists on this board, including the moderators, who are making excuses for the offensive linemen. The team has been in existence for 3 years, and in year 4 it's time for those on the field and in management to perform.

CowboysTexansFan
04-25-2005, 08:30 PM
Patriot:

If Carr leaves, who would you propose the team bring in to replace him?

DRIFTAWAY
04-25-2005, 08:31 PM
I agree with you CowboyTexan.. Please don't start bringing back the loyalty to team thaughts. I'm a very loyal fan and just think that is something to consider. This year will go to decide alot about our franchise and its future. This is make or break time.

Grid
04-25-2005, 09:23 PM
Boy yall are a depressing bunch.

Why are we closer to the playoffs? Cause we were 7-9 last season and with a bit more consistency we would have been 9-7 or 10-6. Its not like we played poorly last year.

Our defense was terribly for MANY of the games last year. We played well in SPURTS for the first 14-15 games.. not until the end of the year did we play to our potential. We have upgraded our speed QUITE a bit and we have all the peices to have a good pass rush next season.. I would say that is a reason to be excited.


Our coaching staff is aware that our Olines pass blocking was an issue last season, and they are taking measures to protect carr better. Thank god that instead listening to yall and redoing our line.. AGAIN.. they are finding other ways to protect carr. Like more timing routes :P.


And Carr isnt going anywhere cause we are going to be protecting him better from now on :P.

what a bunch of chicken littles :P

rhc564
04-25-2005, 09:43 PM
you must be looking forward to the day when you can stand on your soap
box in front of a winning team because all you have now is an active
imagination--but I look forward to the day there is objective posting on this
board w/o certain people thinking all posters should think their way

TexanExile
04-25-2005, 09:51 PM
I think identifying a legitimate TE would do wonders for Carr's health too. Since we pretty much see that nothing can be done about the O-line situation at this point, a solid blocking TE and/or someone with good hands to provide another option for him would be really nice. Houston should be able to find someone serviceable at that position between now and the start of camp. He may already be on the roster, actually....

Joppru, get your gimpy self out there and show us what you got!

michaelm
04-25-2005, 10:10 PM
but I look forward to the day there is objective posting on this
board w/o certain people thinking all posters should think their way

Carr is in the option year of his contract, which will keep him here through 2008 if it is exercised. It will be exercised if it is not renegotiated.
SO, if you call speculation about him leaving objective posting, then we are using different dictionaries. That is nothing more than sensationalist posting that is more appropriate to the National Inquirer than to any rational questions about the near future of our team... :yap
there are alot of chicken littles on this board. ALOT. David Carr is IMO, one of the last players/positions that we should have concerns about, unless he is injured... which recalls the issue of protection, but won't cause him to leave the team...

infantrycak
04-25-2005, 10:48 PM
you must be looking forward to the day when you can stand on your soap
box in front of a winning team because all you have now is an active
imagination--but I look forward to the day there is objective posting on this
board w/o certain people thinking all posters should think their way

Once again (like the 5th time) what are your ideas for improving the team rather than just playing the part of pessimist? What would you do--share your thoughts? I am not trying to shut you up, but rather than generic negative posts, give us something specific. Otherwise chicken little is lookin like a pretty good moniker.