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Hookem Horns
10-03-2011, 01:19 PM
This is currently a link headline on SI.com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/?eref=sinav&sct=hp_nv_a


The 3-1 Texans are reportedly concerned that Johnson could miss a few games, with his status for Week 5 very much in jeopardy.

Hamstring injuries are notoriously fickle and can be long-lasting, depending on the severity. They are especially difficult for an athlete like Johnson, who relies so much on his speed and leaping ability.

Though the link says this I am not getting that vibe with the linked article. I don't see where the Texans are expecting him to out a few weeks.

ThaShark316
10-03-2011, 01:20 PM
Hamstrings are tricky, so yeah.

If I had to GUESS, expect Dre to be a GTD for Tennessee and get held out, then be full throttle for JAX.

ziggy29
10-03-2011, 01:24 PM
Yeah, hammies are tough to deal with because if you come back before it's really 100% it will nag you all season. You're likely to keep aggravating it or injure something else while compensating for it.

Get well soon, AJ!

Dutchrudder
10-03-2011, 01:27 PM
Get him Cushing's old Hyperbaric chamber to recover faster! And for the love of god, don't let him practice for two weeks! No need to jog or run or anything the first week. Rest, rest and more rest.

thunderkyss
10-03-2011, 01:32 PM
This is currently a link headline on SI.com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/?eref=sinav&sct=hp_nv_a



Though the link says this I am not getting that vibe with the linked article. I don't see where the Texans are expecting him to out a few weeks.

I think that's just a preliminary report. It says his status for week 5 is in Jeopardy..... doesn't say what the nature of the injury is.

last night Kubiak said we think it's a hammy, but until they get the MRI, it could be an ACL....... the way he grabed his knee, it looks to me like it is an ACL or a completely disconnected Hamstring.

ChampionTexan
10-03-2011, 01:36 PM
I will withhold any judgement or comments until AJ tweets us all a copy of his latest MRI.

gtexan02
10-03-2011, 01:37 PM
I think that's just a preliminary report. It says his status for week 5 is in Jeopardy..... doesn't say what the nature of the injury is.

last night Kubiak said we think it's a hammy, but until they get the MRI, it could be an ACL....... the way he grabed his knee, it looks to me like it is an ACL or a completely disconnected Hamstring.

Given the way he was moving around on the sideline after the game I'd say ACL or complete tear of hamstring have got to be almost no probability

Dutchrudder
10-03-2011, 01:39 PM
I will withhold any judgement or comments until AJ tweets us all a copy of his latest MRI.

That sounds anti-awesome.

Corrosion
10-03-2011, 03:04 PM
Given the way he was moving around on the sideline after the game I'd say ACL or complete tear of hamstring have got to be almost no probability

Lets hope you are right ..... I dont want to think about this offense going without AJ .....

BullNation4Life
10-03-2011, 03:05 PM
I think that's just a preliminary report. It says his status for week 5 is in Jeopardy..... doesn't say what the nature of the injury is.

last night Kubiak said we think it's a hammy, but until they get the MRI, it could be an ACL....... the way he grabed his knee, it looks to me like it is an ACL or a completely disconnected Hamstring.

according to the doctors on 610 this morning, AJ grabbed the back of his leg/knee area, not the front of the knee, in which the hamstring does comedown that far into the lower leg where the tendons are.

just have to see the results of the MRI....

ziggy29
10-03-2011, 03:10 PM
Given the way he was moving around on the sideline after the game I'd say ACL or complete tear of hamstring have got to be almost no probability
This is my thought. I've torn an ACL and I'm pretty sure that if the trainers felt unnatural movement between upper leg and lower leg that indicated a total tear, they wouldn't have allowed him to use any of his own power to get off the field and stand on the sidelines. Could be wrong, but I can't see the medical staff allowing that if their assessment included a high possibility of a total tear.

Marcus
10-03-2011, 03:35 PM
AJ has been injured many times over the past nine seasons. And each time, when have they EVER been completely forthcoming about his injury. And when have they EVER released the results of his MRI?

There's something else going on besides a "pulled hammy"

I don't expect him back, and completely effective until the JAX game . . . . in week 12 after the buy week.

EllisUnit
10-03-2011, 03:37 PM
AJ has been injured many times over the past nine seasons. And each time, when have they EVER been completely forthcoming about his injury. And when have they EVER released the results of his MRI?

There's something else going on besides a "pulled hammy"

I don't expect him back, and completely effective until the JAX game . . . . in week 12 after the buy week.

well if thats the case we had better bring someone in to replace him until hes ready to go. PLUs i dont believe non of this B.S said until i hear it officially from A.J and half believe it if its from the Texans FO.

EllisUnit
10-03-2011, 03:44 PM
http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-Johnson-suffers-strained-right-hamstring-2199130.php#loopBegin

McClain is saying its a strained hamstring. i dunno if this is good our bad.

hradhak
10-03-2011, 03:45 PM
Kubes just said it'll be a few more days before they know AJ's status

Marcus
10-03-2011, 03:53 PM
well if thats the case we had better bring someone in to replace him until hes ready to go.

Whoever that is, is already on the team.

Marcus
10-03-2011, 03:54 PM
Kubes just said it'll be a few more days before they know AJ's status

Sound familiar?

Hervoyel
10-03-2011, 04:01 PM
AJ has been injured many times over the past nine seasons. And each time, when have they EVER been completely forthcoming about his injury. And when have they EVER released the results of his MRI?

There's something else going on besides a "pulled hammy"

I don't expect him back, and completely effective until the JAX game . . . . in week 12 after the buy week.


I agree. When the Texans talk about an AJ injury and tell you absolutely nothing in the process you take it with a grain of salt. When they do that and work "second opinion" into the story then all bets are off.

http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-still-unsure-of-extent-of-Andre-Johnson-s-2200616.php

Hervoyel
10-03-2011, 04:02 PM
Whoever that is, is already on the team.

True. Unfortunately true.

HOU-TEX
10-03-2011, 04:04 PM
Kubiak said they were getting a second opinion and won't know for a day or two. He doesn't know if it's 3-4 days or a couple weeks.

I guess they don't understand that most fans are still holding their collective breaths since AJ went down like he was shot in the leg. Tell us something, damn. Reassure us he's not out for the season....something

False Start
10-03-2011, 04:16 PM
Kubiak said they were getting a second opinion and won't know for a day or two. He doesn't know if it's 3-4 days or a couple weeks.

I guess they don't understand that most fans are still holding their collective breaths since AJ went down like he was shot in the leg. Tell us something, damn. Reassure us he's not out for the season....something

No doubt, I was keeping an eye on the clock at work today to listen to the presser.

I expect maybe three weeks. The way Kubiak was talking it didn't seem like its catastrophic. But then again, nobody knows nothin right now.

gtexan02
10-03-2011, 04:17 PM
You don't replace Andre Johnson," Kubiak said. "Others have to pick it up the way they did Sunday. If he's going to miss some time, the other players will really have to stick up."
:spit:

You mean 0 catches for 0 yards?

welsh texan
10-03-2011, 04:21 PM
Lots of hamstring issues on the squad this year. Just wondering, with hammy's a lot of it is about how well you warm up and training, a lot is linked to the back and such from the hamstring so its extremely important to be warmed up really well to stop this kind of injury.

With that in mind;

Is it bad luck? Or are our S&C trainers failing in their job?

Second point is; Who takes over the #1 spot at this point. Kevin Walter is #2, does he step up? Or do we slide Jacoby into the #1 as his size/speed creates better matchups even if his hands aren't as good.

No matter what, Jacoby hasn't done much so far this season, especially if you remove his PR duty from the equation, its time for him to step up big or we're sunk, lucky we're on the easiest schedule I can remember.

CloakNNNdagger
10-03-2011, 04:22 PM
Given the way he was moving around on the sideline after the game I'd say ACL or complete tear of hamstring have got to be almost no probability

A person can surprisingly walk with little noticeable limp with a complete tendon avulsion (without the typical significant flexion of the knee), especially if it involves a distal avulsion and even more likely if it involves only one of the distal hamstring muscle tendon groups (medial or lateral) attached to the tibia and fibula. The only time you may see a noticeable problem is when a person with this type of injury tries to walk downhill.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/figures/A00408F01R.jpg

ziggy29
10-03-2011, 04:23 PM
Kubiak said they were getting a second opinion and won't know for a day or two. He doesn't know if it's 3-4 days or a couple weeks.
I'd be thrilled if "worst case" was a couple weeks. A garden variety hamstring pull usually needs 2-3 weeks minimum. And sometimes it takes longer, especially if you wait until you know the guy is 100%, because anything less than that just makes re-aggravating the injury very likely and leave him at less than 100% for the rest of the season.

False Start
10-03-2011, 04:27 PM
AJ is a tough dude. I wouldn't be surprised if he just rubs dirt on it and says, F it...lets roll. :wild:

HOU-TEX
10-03-2011, 04:29 PM
AJ is a tough dude. I wouldn't be surprised if he just rubs dirt on it and says, F it...lets roll. :wild:

Duct tape, bailing wire and bubble gum should do the trick

Hervoyel
10-03-2011, 04:32 PM
Duct tape, bailing wire and bubble gum should do the trick


Didn't you hear? AJ's "all outta bubblegum"

kiwitexansfan
10-03-2011, 04:45 PM
I'll take 3-4 weeks.

As long as we aren't talking season ending I'm happy.

One thing Kubiak can do is generate some offense and as long as the majority of Foster, Tate, Casey, Walter, Jones, Daniels and Dreesen are near 100% I think we'll manage for those 3-4 weeks.

:koolaid:

disaacks3
10-03-2011, 04:46 PM
I expect him out till after the Ravens game (at least).

Rey
10-03-2011, 04:52 PM
Andre was the only WR to catch a ball on Sunday.

I think we can still be productive without him, but it will be a struggle. Matt's not good enough to greatly raise the level of of play of his receivers and we don't have anyone close to Andre's talent level.

That is going to put a lot of pressure oneveryone else, OD and Arian in particular. It will also put a lot of pressure on the playcalling.

The Cush
10-03-2011, 04:53 PM
The Chron is saying they are looking for a second opinion and won't know the severity of the injury for a couple of days. That doesn't sound good, as in they didn't like what they heard the first time around hoping someone else can give a more positive diagnosis.

http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-still-evaluating-severity-of-Andre-2200616.php

Naiirb
10-03-2011, 04:58 PM
If his injury is really serious i don't expect him back till after the bye week. That should give him 7 weeks to heal up and get ready to make a some serious noise in the playoffs. *fingers crossed he'll only miss a few games

TexansForTheW
10-03-2011, 05:08 PM
Kubiak on 610 just said Andre tried to give it a go after he went in the lockeroom. Is it that bad?

The Cush
10-03-2011, 05:12 PM
Kubiak on 610 just said Andre tried to give it a go after he went in the lockeroom. Is it that bad?

That's actually a good sign for me. If it was serious, they wouldn't have even let him attempt to go back out there.

gtexan02
10-03-2011, 05:16 PM
A person can surprisingly walk with little noticeable limp with a complete tendon avulsion (without the typical significant flexion of the knee), especially if it involves a distal avulsion and even more likely if it involves only one of the distal hamstring muscle tendon groups (medial or lateral) attached to the tibia and fibula. The only time you may see a noticeable problem is when a person with this type of injury tries to walk downhill.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/figures/A00408F01R.jpg

I wasn't so much discussing the possibility/probability that he could do it, only that it would seem like there would be no chance that a professional sports training staff would allow a player to go back to the sidelines without any sort of brace/support/etc if there was an injury that severe.

CloakNNNdagger
10-03-2011, 05:17 PM
No doubt, I was keeping an eye on the clock at work today to listen to the presser.

I expect maybe three weeks. The way Kubiak was talking it didn't seem like its catastrophic. But then again, nobody knows nothing right now.

He said that he could be back in a few days or a few weeks..........will get some additional 2nd opinions.

This makes me think that the 2nd opinions are to determine whether to take a non-surgical vs surgical approach. In other words, I believe that the MRI may have already identified a subtotal tear or complete tear/avulsion of the distal hamstring tendon (or the PCL). With a distal hamstring avulsion, there has been controversy whether to surgically repair or not.

Most hamstring tears/avulsions occur more proximal as in this illustration.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/figures/A00408F02.jpg


(See my previous post showing the distal hamstring tendon attachments.)

One study published in the past few years reported on elite athletes with this type of injury. They found that in the nonoperative treatment group (12), 7 players recovered at an average of 10.4 weeks (range, 3-35). Five of these players (42%) failed initial nonoperative treatment (mean, 16.8 weeks) and subsequently had surgery to resect the torn tendon and surrounding scar tissue. These 5 players recovered at an average of 12.8 weeks postoperatively. In the acute [immediate] surgery group, 5 players had surgery to resect the torn tendon and scar tissue within 4 weeks of injury. The acute-phase group had an average recovery of 6.8 weeks after surgery.

I believe that this is possibly the dilemma facing AJ and the organization. Making a decision that at least gets him back before the end of the season or playoffs.

There is no mention of the PCL, but let's say that if the PCL has theoretically been shown to be completely torn, a little different situation exists but with similar decision quandary. Surgical reconstruction of the PCL is controversial, and usually only recommended for grade III PCL tears. Because of the technical difficulty of the surgery, some orthopedic surgeons do not see the benefit of PCL reconstruction. Others, however, believe PCL reconstruction can lead to improved knee stability and lower the likelihood of problems down the road. Non-surgical rehab can take 6-8 weeks........Surgical rehab 6 months.

Again, let me emphasize that I have no access to the findings, physical or radiological. But if this were just a straight forward "minor" hamstring problems, I don't believe that there would be need for several 2nd opinions.

Let me leave you with this article that appeared after an MRI was obtained in 2007 following AJ's PCL/MCL injury. You might want to compare some of the wording.

Sprained knee may keep Johnson out vs. Colts

By Megan Manfull - Houston Chronicle

Andre Johnson, who hurt his left knee Sunday against the Carolina Panthers, is doubtful to play for the Texans when the team plays the Indianapolis Colts this Sunday at Reliant Stadium. The Texans had an MRI done on Johnson's knee Monday morning and it revealed a sprain.

"I would say that he is doubtful for that football game," Kubiak said. "We'll know more in the next couple of days. There was no swelling, but there's definitely a sprain there. It's a concern right now."

The initial diagnosis was that Johnson had strained his posterior cruciate ligament. He hurt it during a big hit that followed his last catch a 10-yard grab with 11:58 to go in the game.

"He has a knee sprain," Kubiak said. "That's the good news and the bad news. We feel fortunate. Andre is going to be fine. Is he going to be fine in one week? Or is he going to be fine in four weeks? We're still in the evaluation stage. We don't know."

Johnson currently ranks fourth in the league with 262 receiving yards on 14 catches. The next most productive receiver on the team is rookie Jacoby Jones with 33 receiving yards on two catches. Kevin Walter has two catches for 17 yards.

If Johnson can't go on Sunday, Andre' Davis will be activated.

AJ ending up missing 7 games..........

steelbtexan
10-03-2011, 05:17 PM
Why would you let someone as obviously hurt as AJ was try to give it a go. (You can only do more damage to the hamstring.) The Texans medical staff is at it again.

drunkcookie
10-03-2011, 05:17 PM
The Chron is saying they are looking for a second opinion and won't know the severity of the injury for a couple of days. That doesn't sound good, as in they didn't like what they heard the first time around hoping someone else can give a more positive diagnosis.

http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-still-evaluating-severity-of-Andre-2200616.php

It could mean that, or that they're trying to be more careful...

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

dream_team
10-03-2011, 05:24 PM
Anything less than season ending and I'm a happy camper!

steelbtexan
10-03-2011, 05:25 PM
He said that he could be back in a few days or a few weeks..........will get some additional 2nd opinions.

This makes me think that the 2nd opinions are to determine whether to take a non-surgical vs surgical approach. In other words, I believe that the MRI may have already identified a subtotal tear or complete tear/avulsion of the distal hamstring tendon (or the PCL). With a distal hamstring avulsion, there has been controversy whether to surgically repair or not.

Most hamstring tears/avulsions occur more proximal as in this illustration.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/figures/A00408F02.jpg


(See my previous post showing the distal hamstring tendon attachments.)

One study published in the past few years reported on elite athletes with this type of injury. They found that in the nonoperative treatment group (12), 7 players recovered at an average of 10.4 weeks (range, 3-35). Five of these players (42%) failed initial nonoperative treatment (mean, 16.8 weeks) and subsequently had surgery to resect the torn tendon and surrounding scar tissue. These 5 players recovered at an average of 12.8 weeks postoperatively. In the acute [immediate] surgery group, 5 players had surgery to resect the torn tendon and scar tissue within 4 weeks of injury. The acute-phase group had an average recovery of 6.8 weeks after surgery.

I believe that this is possibly the dilemma facing AJ and the organization. Making a decision that at least gets him back before the end of the season or playoffs.

There is no mention of the PCL, but let's say that if the PCL has theoretically been shown to be completely torn, a little different situation exists but with similar decision quandary. Surgical reconstruction of the PCL is controversial, and usually only recommended for grade III PCL tears. Because of the technical difficulty of the surgery, some orthopedic surgeons do not see the benefit of PCL reconstruction. Others, however, believe PCL reconstruction can lead to improved knee stability and lower the likelihood of problems down the road. Non-surgical rehab can take 6-8 weeks........Surgical rehab 6 months.

Again, let me emphasize that I have no access to the findings, physical or radiological. But if this were just a straight forward "minor" hamstring problems, I don't believe that there would be need for several 2nd opinions.

Let me leave you with this article that appeared after an MRI was obtained in 2007 following AJ's PCL/MCL injury. You might want to compare some of the wording.



AJ ending up missing 7 games..........

What's that flushing sound I'm hearing?

EllisUnit
10-03-2011, 05:34 PM
If his injury is really serious i don't expect him back till after the bye week. That should give him 7 weeks to heal up and get ready to make a some serious noise in the playoffs. *fingers crossed he'll only miss a few

thats if we can string together enough offense to make the play-offs. Our D has improved but i dont think so much that we can ride them to the play-offs. If it isnt one thing its another. Its like one of those dreams where ur running to the light in the end of the tunnel and no matter how fast you run the end of the tunnel keeps getting farther and farther away. :vincepalm:

Texanmike02
10-03-2011, 05:36 PM
http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-Johnson-suffers-strained-right-hamstring-2199130.php#loopBegin

McClain is saying its a strained hamstring. i dunno if this is good our bad.

Crap. That means its an ACL.

Mike

False Start
10-03-2011, 05:40 PM
thats if we can string together enough offense to make the play-offs. Our D has improved but i dont think so much that we can ride them to the play-offs. If it isnt one thing its another. Its like one of those dreams where ur running to the light in the end of the tunnel and no matter how fast you run the end of the tunnel keeps getting farther and farther away. :vincepalm:

Before the season started I was talking about how the stars are lining up just right for the Texans. I told my brother, "watch some bullshit will happen like AJ will get injured, and screw the Texans season up." I should of just kept my mouth shut, lol. I hope thats not the case though, if so I'll go all Florida Evans.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/ImageShacksharephotospicturesfreeimagehostingfreev ideohostingimagehostingvideohostingphotoimagehosti ngsitevideohostingsite-2.gif

EllisUnit
10-03-2011, 05:43 PM
Before the season started I was talking about how the stars are lining up just right for the Texans. I told my brother, "watch some bullshit will happen like AJ will get injured, and screw the Texans season up." I should of just kept my mouth shut, lol. I hope thats not the case though, if so I'll go all Florida Evans.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/ImageShacksharephotospicturesfreeimagehostingfreev ideohostingimagehostingvideohostingphotoimagehosti ngsitevideohostingsite-2.gif

haha well IMO we have a good enough team to survive, but i think thats about it. We have depended on AJ for far to long and have never really tried to address the issue of a solid #2. If anything the FO is to blame for this.

Dutchrudder
10-03-2011, 05:46 PM
Suppose we lost AJ for 7 games, 8 weeks total, and he comes back week 13 after the Jags game. If we were to go 3-4 down that stretch, we would be 6-5 with 5 games to go. Not out of it yet at that point, and going 4-1 with him back, would still get us to 10-6. Still plenty of hope left!

False Start
10-03-2011, 05:54 PM
Suppose we lost AJ for 7 games, 8 weeks total, and he comes back week 13 after the Jags game. If we were to go 3-4 down that stretch, we would be 6-5 with 5 games to go. Not out of it yet at that point, and going 4-1 with him back, would still get us to 10-6. Still plenty of hope left!

I think they will be able to hang, but not be REALLY bad ass like they could be with AJ. I want to see them kick someones ass, lol. It would be sad to not have AJ for the first playoff appearance. I still have hope either way. :texflag:

EllisUnit
10-03-2011, 06:01 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/28942/texans-seeking-multiple-opinions-on-johnson

another post about AJs injury. More of the same really but there it is.

Shaft75
10-03-2011, 06:03 PM
I'm a huge Dre supporter, and I get why everyone could be dejected... BUT...

This isn't the same Texans team from a couple of years ago. We have a really nice rushing attack and a defense that can keep us in games.

Keep holding your head high guys and gals. We got a team.

thunderkyss
10-03-2011, 06:13 PM
If Aj is going to miss the next 8 weeks (fingers crossed) I really think the only game to worry about is Baltimore.
Raiders: We can beat them without Aj, this is a coaching game. Kubiak should be able to beat these guys.

Baltimore: We're going to need our A game with Andre to win this game.

Tennessee: @ Titland: I know that they aren't as helpless as we've been saying, but these guys don't scare me. The only thing that worries me about them is that they can win 10 games against their schedule, even if we sweep them.

JagUars: I think we got this game @ home

Cleveland: Not necessarily an easy game, so far #4 against the pass # 25 against the run.... I think Gary can put together a game plan to take advantage of our strengths & their weaknesses.

TampaBay: I think we're better than these guys. They're streaky, but I think we can beat them. Either way, it's not guaranteed that we can't win without Andre.

Bye

JagUars: @ TarpStadium... I think we've got a chance to win this game.

Those teams on our schedule without Andre, only makes them more competitive & more dependent on Kubiak's gametime decisions.

Nothing to worry about.

JamesBill
10-03-2011, 06:13 PM
So it sounds like it isn't season ending? And he can recover fully at some point?

JamesBill
10-03-2011, 06:14 PM
Those teams on our schedule without Andre, only makes them more competitive & more dependent on Kubiak's gametime decisions.

Nothing to worry about.

Lulz!

steelbtexan
10-03-2011, 06:18 PM
Lulz!

True

I think the Texans could overcome this.

But no way I would bet on Gary.

DocBar
10-03-2011, 06:18 PM
One thing to note on AJ's injury: He pulled up lame before he got the 1st and took a dive only after he got it. #80 is much of a man. Get well soon. The Texans are NOT the Colts and they can hold down the fort while you heal.

hradhak
10-03-2011, 06:27 PM
He said that he could be back in a few days or a few weeks..........will get some additional 2nd opinions.

This makes me think that the 2nd opinions are to determine whether to take a non-surgical vs surgical approach. In other words, I believe that the MRI may have already identified a subtotal tear or complete tear/avulsion of the distal hamstring tendon (or the PCL). With a distal hamstring avulsion, there has been controversy whether to surgically repair or not.

Most hamstring tears/avulsions occur more proximal as in this illustration.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/figures/A00408F02.jpg


(See my previous post showing the distal hamstring tendon attachments.)

One study published in the past few years reported on elite athletes with this type of injury. They found that in the nonoperative treatment group (12), 7 players recovered at an average of 10.4 weeks (range, 3-35). Five of these players (42%) failed initial nonoperative treatment (mean, 16.8 weeks) and subsequently had surgery to resect the torn tendon and surrounding scar tissue. These 5 players recovered at an average of 12.8 weeks postoperatively. In the acute [immediate] surgery group, 5 players had surgery to resect the torn tendon and scar tissue within 4 weeks of injury. The acute-phase group had an average recovery of 6.8 weeks after surgery.

I believe that this is possibly the dilemma facing AJ and the organization. Making a decision that at least gets him back before the end of the season or playoffs.

There is no mention of the PCL, but let's say that if the PCL has theoretically been shown to be completely torn, a little different situation exists but with similar decision quandary. Surgical reconstruction of the PCL is controversial, and usually only recommended for grade III PCL tears. Because of the technical difficulty of the surgery, some orthopedic surgeons do not see the benefit of PCL reconstruction. Others, however, believe PCL reconstruction can lead to improved knee stability and lower the likelihood of problems down the road. Non-surgical rehab can take 6-8 weeks........Surgical rehab 6 months.

Again, let me emphasize that I have no access to the findings, physical or radiological. But if this were just a straight forward "minor" hamstring problems, I don't believe that there would be need for several 2nd opinions.

Let me leave you with this article that appeared after an MRI was obtained in 2007 following AJ's PCL/MCL injury. You might want to compare some of the wording.



AJ ending up missing 7 games..........

Although the n in the study is really low, it seems like operative therapy means he's effectively out at least 7 weeks. Even if we go the non-op route he's still got a chance for not coming back this year. It's a tough call. Don't have to worry too much about elite athletes at the county hospital where I practice!

JamesBill
10-03-2011, 06:33 PM
Although the n in the study is really low, it seems like operative therapy means he's effectively out at least 7 weeks. Even if we go the non-op route he's still got a chance for not coming back this year. It's a tough call. Don't have to worry too much about elite athletes at the county hospital where I practice!

I think you have to go for the sure thing and get it fixed.

imatexan
10-03-2011, 06:37 PM
Ugh AJ being out is the most depressing thing that can happen in my sports world. Not only because how much he means to the Texans offense but also because he is my favorite player by far. Anytime the Texans get a big play or score I am pumped but for some reason when it is AJ that makes it happens, it is that much more special to me...I guess that is just the type of guy/player he is.


Lucky for us we have what should be a pretty easy schedule, praying that it is not he is out and more importantly is 100% healthy!

Runner
10-03-2011, 06:41 PM
If Dre is out for a significant amount of time or the season, I think the chances of the Texans making the playoffs are slim. He's a huge part of this offense just being on the field. Even if he's not the target he gets a lot of defensive attention.

This isn't a pleasant thought, but he's more than a replaceable cog in this machine.

GuerillaBlack
10-03-2011, 06:44 PM
If AJ is going to miss that much time (five or more weeks), then it really is time for the organization to trade for a WR, or sign TO and/or Moss. Yeah, our offense can still do damage without AJ, but I have no faith in our other receivers. Not to mention the added benefit of that receiver once AJ cones back.

CloakNNNdagger
10-03-2011, 06:45 PM
No doubt, I was keeping an eye on the clock at work today to listen to the presser.

I expect maybe three weeks. The way Kubiak was talking it didn't seem like its catastrophic. But then again, nobody knows nothin right now.

Kubiak on 610 just said Andre tried to give it a go after he went in the lockeroom. Is it that bad?

That's actually a good sign for me. If it was serious, they wouldn't have even let him attempt to go back out there.

You might also ask Tate how he felt about being allowed to give it a go and walk off the field last year without assistance........with multiple ankle ligament tears and fracture..........

DocBar
10-03-2011, 07:15 PM
If AJ is going to miss that much time (five or more weeks), then it really is time for the organization to trade for a WR, or sign TO and/or Moss. Yeah, our offense can still do damage without AJ, but I have no faith in our other receivers. Not to mention the added benefit of that receiver once AJ cones back.I would think more along the lines of tweaks ti the system rather than wholesale changes. More TE's, change some routes, Casey playing multiple roles. The idea is to get the D off their gameplan and on their heels. Losing AJ sucks, but the emergence of Casey opens up avenues closed to us in years past. Kubiak is supposed to be an offensive guru, so improvise, adapt, and overcome. At least that's what Clint Eastwood would say.

The Cush
10-03-2011, 07:15 PM
You might also ask Tate how he felt about being allowed to give it a go and walk off the field last year without assistance........with multiple ankle ligament tears and fracture..........

I thought he got carted off?

CloakNNNdagger
10-03-2011, 07:18 PM
I thought he got carted off?

Once he got to the sidelines.........and without an immediate air splint.

drunkcookie
10-03-2011, 07:21 PM
Why would you let someone as obviously hurt as AJ was try to give it a go. (You can only do more damage to the hamstring.) The Texans medical staff is at it again.

That would for sure be killer and piss me off...

BUTTTTT... where has that been reported? "AJ tried" and the staff "let AJ try" are two different things... for all we know from this one sentence about "aj tried to give it a go", AJ maybe didn't want to take his pads off and started jogging in place as the staff told him "not a good idea, you need to rest it..."

Or maybe they actually said "you're fine, champ, let's try and give it a go..."..

too vague to jump to conclusions on that... Hell, Foster got tight against Miami and they benched him...

Nawzer
10-03-2011, 07:33 PM
On my way home, I heard Kubiak (on 610 AM) say that they were going to know more by tomorrow on what AJ's condition is. I think out for a few weeks is way better than out for the whole season. And initially it looked like he was done for the season the way he reacted. I don't think the Texans will sign either Moss or T.O. Obviously other guys will have to step up and get the job done till AJ comes back.

GhostRaider2007
10-03-2011, 07:39 PM
Link:
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=1575&line=215392&spln=1

ESPN's Adam Schefter reported on Monday Night Countdown that the Texans believe Andre Johnson's hamstring injury will not keep him out long term.

Schefter confirmed that Johnson probably won't play in Week 5 against the Raiders, but the team hasn't yet ruled him out, and the injury isn't season-threatening as may have been initially feared. In other words, it sounds like a "week-to-week" situation. Just keep in mind that the Texans are still awaiting a second opinion on the hamstring injury. Coach Gary Kubiak suggested Monday that the Texans will "lean on" Arian Foster until Johnson gets back. Oct. 3 - 7:09 pm et

drunkcookie
10-03-2011, 07:41 PM
On my way home, I heard Kubiak (on 610 AM) say that they were going to know more by tomorrow on what AJ's condition is. I think out for a few weeks is way better than out for the whole season. And initially it looked like he was done for the season the way he reacted. I don't think the Texans will sign either Moss or T.O. Obviously other guys will have to step up and get the job done till AJ comes back.

It sure did... I had my head in my hands for a solid minute... I then got on the phone and text'd two of my buddies that were watching the game elsewhere with "Wtf? andre? It's always something" and just after sending it got "NOOOOO!" from one of them... I wonder how many of those types of text messages flew around 12:58 pm Sunday?

The Cush
10-03-2011, 07:44 PM
It sure did... I had my head in my hands for a solid minute... I then got on the phone and text'd two of my buddies that were watching the game elsewhere with "Wtf? andre? It's always something" and just after sending it got "NOOOOO!" from one of them... I wonder how many of those types of text messages flew around 12:58 pm Sunday?

I felt like Albert Pujols hit that moon shot homerun at Minute Maid in the League Championship series all over again

Hervoyel
10-03-2011, 07:44 PM
Kubiak & Co. said they would know more by tomorrow. They never said we would.

I don't see how they can not be calling free agent WR's right now and trying to find someone who is more consistent than Jacoby. I just don't understand how Gary & Rick can look at Jacoby Jones, turn and smile at each other, and say "We got this covered".

If I was in that position I'd be trying to get somebody in here tomorrow for a workout.

Playoffs
10-03-2011, 07:49 PM
...One study published in the past few years reported on elite athletes with this type of injury. They found that in ...
Must spread rep...

Great info, thanks.

CloakNNNdagger
10-03-2011, 09:06 PM
Kubiak & Co. said they would know more by tomorrow. They never said we would.

I don't see how they can not be calling free agent WR's right now and trying to find someone who is more consistent than Jacoby. I just don't understand how Gary & Rick can look at Jacoby Jones, turn and smile at each other, and say "We got this covered".

If I was in that position I'd be trying to get somebody in here tomorrow for a workout.

Don't lose hope, tomorrow's "Workout Tuesday".........we're bound to hit a home run lifesaver!:toropalm:

GP
10-03-2011, 09:38 PM
My gut tells me the 2nd opinion they're seeking is to protect arguably the most valuable WR in current NFL history (Calvin Johnson being 2nd on that list).

I'm going to go with the idea that they want to make sure the MRI is clear, and that there is no doubt about its results. I expect it to be as minor of a hamstring problem as has been communicated by Kubiak thus far.

The last thing they want to do is trot AJ back out there and BAM! he goes down because of an iffy MRI or some other "hitch" that was missed during the initial examination.

This is to protect Andre Johnson, to prolong his career, first and foremost.

That's my gut instinct. Meanwhile, the Raiders won't know whether to prepare for AJ being in the game or not. It is what it is, I'm just sayin'.....

Texn4life
10-03-2011, 09:52 PM
My gut tells me the 2nd opinion they're seeking is to protect arguably the most valuable WR in current NFL history (Calvin Johnson being 2nd on that list).

I'm going to go with the idea that they want to make sure the MRI is clear, and that there is no doubt about its results. I expect it to be as minor of a hamstring problem as has been communicated by Kubiak thus far.

The last thing they want to do is trot AJ back out there and BAM! he goes down because of an iffy MRI or some other "hitch" that was missed during the initial examination.

This is to protect Andre Johnson, to prolong his career, first and foremost.

That's my gut instinct. Meanwhile, the Raiders won't know whether to prepare for AJ being in the game or not. It is what it is, I'm just sayin'.....

First time I've heard this, but it does make sense. I'm sure with the way they saw Andre go down they don't want to risk running him back out there without getting every clearance possible. That's the scenario that I'm sure every Texans fan is hoping for at least.

bckey
10-04-2011, 12:40 AM
Kubiak & Co. said they would know more by tomorrow. They never said we would.

I don't see how they can not be calling free agent WR's right now and trying to find someone who is more consistent than Jacoby. I just don't understand how Gary & Rick can look at Jacoby Jones, turn and smile at each other, and say "We got this covered".

If I was in that position I'd be trying to get somebody in here tomorrow for a workout.


Do you remember Herv when Andre got hurt in the Carolina game a few years back (2007)? We were hearing the same vague reports and he ended up being out a lot longer than a couple of weeks. Kubiak kept stringing us along with vague reports and when Andre would be back. I think he missed the rest of the Carolina game and then about 7 more before making it back. I'm only saying what you already know. Kubiak doesn't tell the whole truth when it comes to injuries and he is worse when it is his main guy on offense.

Texanmike02
10-04-2011, 12:59 AM
Do you remember Herv when Andre got hurt in the Carolina game a few years back (2007)? We were hearing the same vague reports and he ended up being out a lot longer than a couple of weeks. Kubiak kept stringing us along with vague reports and when Andre would be back. I think he missed the rest of the Carolina game and then about 7 more before making it back. I'm only saying what you already know. Kubiak doesn't tell the whole truth when it comes to injuries and he is worse when it is his main guy on offense.

But since this offseason the FO has made moves more aggressively. I think they know whats at stake and if there was a real concern about AJ at this point we would have already read "TO and Moss are visiting Houston on Tuesday".

Mike

ThaShark316
10-04-2011, 01:56 AM
I felt like Albert Pujols hit that moon shot homerun at Minute Maid in the League Championship series all over again

Dre being out only a game or 2 = Oswalt saying "**** you" to St. Louis and winning game 6. :tiphat::cool:

drunkcookie
10-04-2011, 06:38 AM
Dre being out only a game or 2 = Oswalt saying "**** you" to St. Louis and winning game 6. :tiphat::cool:

Lol, Perfect...

drunkcookie
10-04-2011, 06:43 AM
I've seen the name "Moss" a lot in this thread... would he be a good fit for Houston (not talking about "in the locker room" or anything)?

He just seems to be a deep threat style receiver, one to be hit in stride... hitting receivers deep and in stride hasn't been Schaub's speciality so far in his career...

BigBull17
10-04-2011, 07:20 AM
T.O I would welcome im here, Moss, not so much. He is a lazy turd who runs a go and a post. Does not fit.

TexansForTheW
10-04-2011, 08:06 AM
I have a different view on this than most. Kubiak said "Andre was moving around in the lockeroom", in an attempt to "get back on the field". So is it that bad. Sounds to me like the first MRI turned out pretty well. Kubiak also said they were seeing how Andre felt about it. Is this just a precautionary move to protect one of the best players in the league, because his injury on the field looked season ending, yet it was nothing. I have a feeling there's a good chance he is back for Baltimore.

If it was a season ended I would be shocked. Signs during the game, Andre smiling, moving around on the sideline, or just even being out there, would suggest it was not that bad.

BlueSteel
10-04-2011, 08:34 AM
Andre was the only WR to catch a ball on Sunday.

I think we can still be productive without him, but it will be a struggle. Matt's not good enough to greatly raise the level of of play of his receivers and we don't have anyone close to Andre's talent level.

That is going to put a lot of pressure oneveryone else, OD and Arian in particular. It will also put a lot of pressure on the playcalling.

Go back and look at Walter's stats over the past few seasons. He has the ability to fill in as the number one better than JJ does. Back in 2007 when AJ was down for an extended period of time Schaub dud just fine spreading the ball around.

If anything this is going to force Schaub to work on his progressions since he has been slowly getting bad at staring AJ down. I want to see him get back to working the ball all over the field like he has in years past.

If that means getting Anderson back out there for some of his grunt style yardage, do it! The passing game is just not as potent right now as it seemed in years past, you never knew where Schaub would go with the ball.

texanhead08
10-04-2011, 08:41 AM
John Clayton on ESPN speculated 2-3 weeks this morning. I would hope he is back by the time we play the Tacks in 3 weeks. I know Andre will be foaming at the mouth to tourch innegan again.

VTexan
10-04-2011, 08:52 AM
If Philadelphia's season keeps going the way it is, there are rumblings about trading Desean Jackson. Now, I know we would never entertain the idea, but Philly definitely loves trading. (he is on his last year of his contract and there is speculation Eagles won't pay him in the off-season)

a second round pick + maybe a player should get this done. (they are beyond paper thin at linebacker)

ChampionTexan
10-04-2011, 08:55 AM
John Clayton on ESPN speculated 2-3 weeks this morning. I would hope he is back by the time we play the Tacks in 3 weeks. I know Andre will be foaming at the mouth to tourch innegan again.

He also said something like 8 weeks out for Walter when he "broke" his shoulder, so I'm skeptical to say the least, but if he's right, only 2-3 weeks would be a huge positive for the Texans.

Texas T
10-04-2011, 09:03 AM
Johnson post on Facebook last night:

News for yall I'm fine. Imma miss some time but it's just the staff being safe, I'll be good to go soon

He sounds positive to me! Hopefully this is the way it will work and we'll only miss him for 1-2 games.

disaacks3
10-04-2011, 09:35 AM
Before the season started I was talking about how the stars are lining up just right for the Texans. I told my brother, "watch some bullshit will happen like AJ will get injured, and screw the Texans season up." I should of just kept my mouth shut, lol. I hope thats not the case though, if so I'll go all Florida Evans.
So, it's YOUR fault! **Get HIM!**

If Aj is going to miss the next 8 weeks (fingers crossed) I really think the only game to worry about is Baltimore.
Raiders: We can beat them without Aj, this is a coaching game. Kubiak should be able to beat these guys.

Baltimore: We're going to need our A game with Andre to win this game.

Tennessee: @ Titland: I know that they aren't as helpless as we've been saying, but these guys don't scare me. The only thing that worries me about them is that they can win 10 games against their schedule, even if we sweep them.

JagUars: I think we got this game @ home

Cleveland: Not necessarily an easy game, so far #4 against the pass # 25 against the run.... I think Gary can put together a game plan to take advantage of our strengths & their weaknesses.

TampaBay: I think we're better than these guys. They're streaky, but I think we can beat them. Either way, it's not guaranteed that we can't win without Andre.

Bye

JagUars: @ TarpStadium... I think we've got a chance to win this game.

Those teams on our schedule without Andre, only makes them more competitive & more dependent on Kubiak's gametime decisions.

Nothing to worry about. It all sounded OK till that last part. :kubepalm:

Kubiak & Co. said they would know more by tomorrow. They never said we would.

I don't see how they can not be calling free agent WR's right now and trying to find someone who is more consistent than Jacoby. I just don't understand how Gary & Rick can look at Jacoby Jones, turn and smile at each other, and say "We got this covered".

If I was in that position I'd be trying to get somebody in here tomorrow for a workout. JJ is a great field-stretcher, but he's not even a poor man's #1...for anybody.

T.O I would welcome im here, Moss, not so much. He is a lazy turd who runs a go and a post. Does not fit. I'd love to see T.O., but I doubt it with the good guy F.O.

If Philadelphia's season keeps going the way it is, there are rumblings about trading Desean Jackson. Now, I know we would never entertain the idea, but Philly definitely loves trading. (he is on his last year of his contract and there is speculation Eagles won't pay him in the off-season)

a second round pick + maybe a player should get this done. (they are beyond paper thin at linebacker) That'd be too good to be true.

TexansForTheW
10-04-2011, 09:38 AM
Johnson post on Facebook last night:

News for yall I'm fine. Imma miss some time but it's just the staff being safe, I'll be good to go soon

He sounds positive to me! Hopefully this is the way it will work and we'll only miss him for 1-2 games.

Sounds to me like the big guy feel like he can play this week but the team doesn't want to pull a Foster.

GP
10-04-2011, 09:50 AM
I'm going to go with the idea that they want to make sure the MRI is clear, and that there is no doubt about its results. I expect it to be as minor of a hamstring problem as has been communicated by Kubiak thus far.

The last thing they want to do is trot AJ back out there and BAM! he goes down because of an iffy MRI or some other "hitch" that was missed during the initial examination.

This is to protect Andre Johnson, to prolong his career, first and foremost.

Johnson post on Facebook last night:

News for yall I'm fine. Imma miss some time but it's just the staff being safe, I'll be good to go soon

So far, it's looking good. Texans just making sure they don't rush him back out there.

Mr teX
10-04-2011, 10:20 AM
Johnson post on Facebook last night:

News for yall I'm fine. Imma miss some time but it's just the staff being safe, I'll be good to go soon

He sounds positive to me! Hopefully this is the way it will work and we'll only miss him for 1-2 games.

That's all i need right there to breathe again. His word means much more than anyone elses speculation. Now all i need is for him to tweet the MRI results...LOL.

Rey
10-04-2011, 10:32 AM
Go back and look at Walter's stats over the past few seasons. He has the ability to fill in as the number one better than JJ does. Back in 2007 when AJ was down for an extended period of time Schaub dud just fine spreading the ball around.

If anything this is going to force Schaub to work on his progressions since he has been slowly getting bad at staring AJ down. I want to see him get back to working the ball all over the field like he has in years past.

If that means getting Anderson back out there for some of his grunt style yardage, do it! The passing game is just not as potent right now as it seemed in years past, you never knew where Schaub would go with the ball.

That is true. Schaub has spread the ball around better in the past...well more than he has done this season.

Texan_Bill
10-04-2011, 10:37 AM
Johnson post on Facebook last night:

News for yall I'm fine. Imma miss some time but it's just the staff being safe, I'll be good to go soon

He sounds positive to me! Hopefully this is the way it will work and we'll only miss him for 1-2 games.

Sorry Dre, you're my cat and all, but I ain't buying it. Two words scare the hell out of me: "Second Opinion"

Norg
10-04-2011, 11:01 AM
Can we bring DIckerson or andre davis back ?????

TheMatrix31
10-04-2011, 11:01 AM
I think he'll miss the Raiders game for sure and probably the Ravens game.

Marcus
10-04-2011, 11:21 AM
Kubiak & Co. said they would know more by tomorrow. They never said we would.

I don't see how they can not be calling free agent WR's right now and trying to find someone who is more consistent than Jacoby. I just don't understand how Gary & Rick can look at Jacoby Jones, turn and smile at each other, and say "We got this covered".

If I was in that position I'd be trying to get somebody in here tomorrow for a workout.

Who do you have in mind? Besides T.O. and Moss, that is.

There ain't nobody out there. They would already be playing if there were.

Marcus
10-04-2011, 11:27 AM
How can you have "multiple MRIs" done, and not be able to tell what's wrong?

:rolleyes:

TexanSam
10-04-2011, 11:30 AM
Johnson post on Facebook last night:

News for yall I'm fine. Imma miss some time but it's just the staff being safe, I'll be good to go soon

He sounds positive to me! Hopefully this is the way it will work and we'll only miss him for 1-2 games.

I don't see this anywhere. Does Andre Johnson even have a Facebook page?

BigBull17
10-04-2011, 11:36 AM
I'd love to see T.O., but I doubt it with the good guy F.O.

They have been more lax on the boyscout rule. Hell, we have a guy who got the boot for making synthisized shrooms in college.

EllisUnit
10-04-2011, 03:13 PM
I don't see this anywhere. Does Andre Johnson even have a page?

it dont even take me to a face book page....

Grams
10-04-2011, 03:18 PM
Johnson post on Facebook last night:

News for yall I'm fine. Imma miss some time but it's just the staff being safe, I'll be good to go soon

He sounds positive to me! Hopefully this is the way it will work and we'll only miss him for 1-2 games.

Don't think he has a facebook page.

markn
10-04-2011, 03:18 PM
Sorry Dre, you're my cat and all, but I ain't buying it. Two words scare the hell out of me: "Second Opinion"

I went to the doctor and he told me I was over-weight. I said I wanted a second opinion and he told me I was ugly too.

True story.

Lurvinator11
10-04-2011, 04:27 PM
If Johnson goes out, I wouldn't be too worried. Our offense is built around him, yes but ever since Foster came in its been dependent on him as well. With Foster we still have the ability to run those play actions and screens. It is worth noting that we didnt even really throw to johnson in the pittsburgh game. I will not be too woried if he goes out for 2 weeks or maybe even more.

On a related note, if johnson is out for the season, I think we should pull a mike ditka and trade our entire team (including the coaching staff and toro) for Lebron James! He will come in and score 40 points for us every game!

Lebron for houston!:cow:

Hervoyel
10-04-2011, 04:44 PM
Who do you have in mind? Besides T.O. and Moss, that is.

There ain't nobody out there. They would already be playing if there were.

Housh maybe? Take a chance? I dunno, you're right. There are the known possible issue guys and then a bunch of guys whose teams didn't keep them when they had the chance.

We're screwed.

EllisUnit
10-04-2011, 05:07 PM
If Johnson goes out, I wouldn't be too worried. Our offense is built around him, yes but ever since Foster came in its been dependent on him as well. With Foster we still have the ability to run those play actions and screens. It is worth noting that we didnt even really throw to johnson in the pittsburgh game. I will not be too woried if he goes out for 2 weeks or maybe even more.

On a related note, if johnson is out for the season, I think we should pull a mike ditka and trade our entire team (including the coaching staff and toro) for Lebron James! He will come in and score 40 points for us every game!

Lebron for houston!:cow:

Ummm it was still the threat of him out there, when a guy consistently sraws double and triple teams that leaves ur other guys mainly 1 on 1. I dont care if we still do have play action cause the fact of the matter is johnson opened up the passing game for everyone else. Now defenses wont have that problem.

gtexan02
10-04-2011, 05:15 PM
Johnson post on Facebook last night:

News for yall I'm fine. Imma miss some time but it's just the staff being safe, I'll be good to go soon

He sounds positive to me! Hopefully this is the way it will work and we'll only miss him for 1-2 games.

Is this fake or not?

EllisUnit
10-04-2011, 05:18 PM
Is this fake or not?

has to be. there are like 10 Andre Johnson face book profiles, who knows if any are real.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 05:22 PM
Sorry Dre, you're my cat and all, but I ain't buying it. Two words scare the hell out of me: "Second Opinion"

From an ESPN blog piece by a physical therapist who is a board-certified orthopedic clinical specialist and a certified strength and conditioning specialist. She evidently now shares my concern for the distal hamstring TENDON.

Andre Johnson likely out multiple weeks (http://espn.go.com/fantasy/blog/_/name/bell_stephania/id/7059722/andre-johnson-ben-roethlisberger-vincent-jackson-biggest-injuries-coming-week-4)
October, 4, 2011

Johnson could be seen grabbing the lower part of his hamstring, just above the knee, at the time of his injury which would suggest that the injury was near the tendinous attachment. Those injuries are often slow to heal because of poorer blood supply to the tendon.

TheRealJoker
10-04-2011, 05:25 PM
If Johnson goes out, I wouldn't be too worried. Our offense is built around him, yes but ever since Foster came in its been dependent on him as well. With Foster we still have the ability to run those play actions and screens. It is worth noting that we didnt even really throw to johnson in the pittsburgh game. I will not be too woried if he goes out for 2 weeks or maybe even more.

On a related note, if johnson is out for the season, I think we should pull a mike ditka and trade our entire team (including the coaching staff and toro) for Lebron James! He will come in and score 40 points for us every game!

Lebron for houston!:cow:

We didn't really throw to AJ? He had 36 yards receiving in a little over a quarter!

srrono
10-04-2011, 05:46 PM
McClain_on_NFL John McClain
Andre Johnson had a procedure done on his hamstring today, could miss 3 weeks. Procedure was to prevent scar tissue and speed the recovery

McClain_on_NFL John McClain
Jacoby Jones starts in place of Johnson opposite Kevin Walter. Johnson will miss Oakland, Baltimore and possibly Tennessee games.

coon
10-04-2011, 05:46 PM
Would you be willing to give up 2 seconds for Brandon Marshall. It's not as if we have an unblemished track record in the draft, and we wouldn't have to rush Andre back. Plus Andre, Arian, Marshall, OD, Matt, and our line is deadly all over the field. Especially in the red zone.

GP
10-04-2011, 05:46 PM
Good to see it here. Sorry, I saw it in the NFL Forum and wondered if you were going to post it here.

gtexan02
10-04-2011, 05:47 PM
Nice find. Disappointed he needed surgery. 3 weeks for AJ and the Texans probably means 7 :(

thunderkyss
10-04-2011, 05:47 PM
From an ESPN blog piece by a physical therapist who is a board-certified orthopedic clinical specialist and a certified strength and conditioning specialist. She evidently now shares my concern for the distal hamstring TENDON.

Has anyone seen an official diagnosis?

gtexan02
10-04-2011, 05:47 PM
AJ had surgery today per McClain. Out 3 weeks. Srrono with the find

coon
10-04-2011, 05:48 PM
We can all exhale a bit. Baltimore will be tough, but we can win all those games.

srrono
10-04-2011, 05:49 PM
Good to see it here. Sorry, I saw it in the NFL Forum and wondered if you were going to post it here.

i know i thought i was in Texans forum lol

Texas T
10-04-2011, 05:50 PM
I don't see this anywhere. Does Andre Johnson even have a Facebook page?

Yes he does.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001297263985

This is the only AJ page that is linked to Owen Daniels' Catch A Dream Foundation.
But I guess you can take it for what it's worth.

tielahr
10-04-2011, 05:52 PM
i know i thought i was in Texans forum lol

lol like I said in other forum. Not having dre for the Ravens game is a big loss for us, but if it's just 3 weeks. I'll take it.

tielahr
10-04-2011, 05:54 PM
McClain_on_NFL John McClain
Jacoby Jones starts in place of Johnson opposite Kevin Walter. Johnson will miss Oakland, Baltimore and possibly Tennessee games.

McClain_on_NFL John McClain
Andre Johnson had a procedure done on his hamstring today, could miss 3 weeks. Procedure was to prevent scar tissue and speed the recovery

wrong forum delete if can

Found this in other forum, just posting in here.

GuerillaBlack
10-04-2011, 05:55 PM
I'm doubting its just three weeks, knowing the Texans. Hoping for the best, but feeling like he won't come back until after the bye.

EllisUnit
10-04-2011, 06:01 PM
McClain_on_NFL John McClain
Andre Johnson had a procedure done on his hamstring today, could miss 3 weeks. Procedure was to prevent scar tissue and speed the recovery

McClain_on_NFL John McClain
Jacoby Jones starts in place of Johnson opposite Kevin Walter. Johnson will miss Oakland, Baltimore and possibly Tennessee games.

i guess it wasnt as bad as we all initially thought, well good

BigBull17
10-04-2011, 06:02 PM
They HAVE to go out and get a guy

DocBar
10-04-2011, 06:02 PM
We can all exhale a bit. Baltimore will be tough, but we can win all those games.Baltimore will be won or lost in the trenches. Brown breaking Harrison's eye socket might give Suggs a bit of pause. Hopefully our OL will be hammers and not nails for that game.

With AJ missing these games, it'll be the ultimate test for the Texans the next 3-4 weeks. I honestly think they can do it. Make AJ proud and get it done. AJ is the heart and soul of this team. Don't make all of the games he's played through injuries in go to waste. Rally around and get this team to the playoffs this year.

Double Barrel
10-04-2011, 06:29 PM
Well, now is the time to really find out what Jacoby Jones is all about. I hope he steps up to the potential that many claim he's got in him.

Fortunately, this offense has quite a few solid weapons, so I agree with the above, these games are winnable. Our defense will need to continue to step up and make some plays, maybe even score some points.

This is what great TEAMS are made of in the end.

Ryan
10-04-2011, 06:29 PM
Hopefully we can win without him. I expect us to bring someone in.

TheMatrix31
10-04-2011, 06:35 PM
I figured it would be something like that. Hopefully he can get better faster than expected and be back for Tennessee for sure.

Until then, throw to the damn HB and FBs. Foster, Tate, Ward, Casey, Vickers, OD, Dreesen. Use them!

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 06:36 PM
Has anyone seen an official diagnosis?

Just as I have posted all along, if he required surgery, it would have to be to repair a torn distal hamstring TENDON, not muscle.

They have reported "a medical procedure." If this medical procedure is Platelet-Rich Plasma Therapy, it would still most likely reflect treatment of a poorly vascularized tissue as in a tendon.

Cush
10-04-2011, 06:47 PM
This is what great TEAMS are made of in the end.

Couldn't have said it better.

This could be our finest hour. This will tell us if this team is ready to take another step forward.

Next man up Jacoby.

TexCanada
10-04-2011, 06:48 PM
I'm doubting its just three weeks, knowing the Texans. Hoping for the best, but feeling like he won't come back until after the bye.

I agree with this statement.

97roc
10-04-2011, 06:51 PM
Just as I have posted all along, if he required surgery, it would have to be to repair a torn distal hamstring TENDON, not muscle.

They have reported "a medical procedure." If this medical procedure is Platelet-Rich Plasma Therapy, it would still most likely reflect treatment of a poorly vascularized tissue as in a tendon.

Not really following you on that last statement Doc. Is a torn tendon worse? 100% recovery likely?

ATXtexanfan
10-04-2011, 06:51 PM
time for the defense to step along with schaub

thunderkyss
10-04-2011, 06:54 PM
Just as I have posted all along, if he required surgery, it would have to be to repair a torn distal hamstring TENDON, not muscle.

They have reported "a medical procedure." If this medical procedure is Platelet-Rich Plasma Therapy, it would still most likely reflect treatment of a poorly vascularized tissue as in a tendon.

Does 2-3 weeks sound consistent?

TexanSam
10-04-2011, 06:54 PM
Wouldn't be surprised if Owen Daniels has some huge games the next few weeks.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 06:55 PM
Not really following you on that last statement Doc. Is a torn tendon worse? 100% recovery likely?

Muscle tissue has great blood supply. Tendon tissue has very poor blood supply. Tendon tears tend to heal much slower than muscle tears.

From the Chronicle:
Texans receiver Andre Johnson underwent a medical procedure on his right hamstring Tuesday and could return in three weeks.

The procedure was done to prevent scar tissue from forming around a minor tear. The procedure is supposed to speed up the healing process.

Kennard McGuire, Johnson's agent, wouldn't comment on the procedure but said, "Andre's fine. He's looking forward to being back with his teammates."

Note that the statement given does not say muscle when describing "a minor tear."

thunderkyss
10-04-2011, 06:56 PM
Couldn't have said it better.

This could be our finest hour. This will tell us if this team is ready to take another step forward.

Next man up Jacoby.

Didn't we do this last year?

What is this going to tell us that last year's game didn't?

DocBar
10-04-2011, 06:59 PM
Didn't we do this last year?

What is this going to tell us that last year's game didn't?A winning record? Not sure where you're going with this.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 07:00 PM
MODS may want to merge this with the other AJ thread.

DocBar
10-04-2011, 07:01 PM
Muscle tissue has great blood supply. Tendon tissue has very poor blood supply. Tendon tears tend to heal much slower than muscle tears.

From the Chronicle:


Note that the statement given does not say muscle when describing "a minor tear."Some tendons do receive better blood supply than others. Could this be one of those? When I heard this, I figured it was a snow job and we'd be lucky to see AJ again before the playoffs.

TheMatrix31
10-04-2011, 07:02 PM
I bet we lose a game because Jacoby fumbles on an important play trying to get YAC.

DocBar
10-04-2011, 07:06 PM
I bet we lose a game because Jacoby fumbles on an important play trying to get YAC.If that happens, I'm informing Obama about what a terrorist you are. Beware the drones.....

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 07:07 PM
Some tendons do receive better blood supply than others. Could this be one of those? When I heard this, I figured it was a snow job and we'd be lucky to see AJ again before the playoffs.


Larger tendons like the Achilles have poorer blood supply than smaller tendons........but all tendons and ligaments have relatively very poor blood supply and repairative properties compared to muscle

DocBar
10-04-2011, 07:09 PM
Larger tendons like the Achilles have poorer blood supply than smaller tendons........but all tendons and ligaments have relatively very poor blood supply and repairative properties compared to muscle That is entirely counter-intuitive.

Fred
10-04-2011, 07:10 PM
Well, now is the time to really find out what Jacoby Jones is all about. I hope he steps up to the potential that many claim he's got in him.

Fortunately, this offense has quite a few solid weapons, so I agree with the above, these games are winnable. Our defense will need to continue to step up and make some plays, maybe even score some points.

This is what great TEAMS are made of in the end.

I think Jacoby gets targeted by fewer passes than: Owen Daniels, Arian Foster, James Casey, Joel Dressen, and (if he plays - Ben Tate). Well, at least he will catch fewer.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 07:15 PM
That is entirely counter-intuitive.

How's that?

devo-x
10-04-2011, 07:28 PM
It's time for Owen Daniels, James Casey and Arian Foster to step up

EllisUnit
10-04-2011, 07:38 PM
Its now on ESPN


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7060207/houston-texans-andre-johnson-expected-miss-three-weeks-according-report

Houston Texans wide receiver Andre Johnson is expected to miss three weeks after undergoing a minor medical procedure Tuesday, according to a report by Fox 26 Sports in Houston.

The report, which cited league sources, said Johnson had the procedure to "eliminate scar tissue to speed up the healing process related to his right hamstring."

AFC South blog

Johnson went down without getting touched in the second quarter against Pittsburgh on Sunday, and did not return.

"You don't replace Andre," coach Gary Kubiak said Monday. "What you do is you've got to pick it up across the board, at other spots."

That includes Jacoby Jones, who Kubiak is hoping can fill in for Johnson as ably as Ben Tate did for Arian Foster this season.

Fox reached out to Johnson's agent, Kennard McGuire, who declined comment on the medical procedure.

"Andre is doing fine and he looks forward to being with his teammates soon," McGuire told Fox.

False Start
10-04-2011, 07:54 PM
I thought three weeks in the other AJ thread. I just dont think its gonna be just three weeks though. Then again, AJ is the Bionic Man, so he might just make it back in 3. :wild:

JamesBill
10-04-2011, 08:02 PM
So I guess they didn't cut him right? Some other procedure? 3 weeks is fast for surgery.

EllisUnit
10-04-2011, 08:07 PM
So I guess they didn't cut him right? Some other procedure? 3 weeks is fast for surgery.

medicine man and prayer :)

97roc
10-04-2011, 08:07 PM
Larger tendons like the Achilles have poorer blood supply than smaller tendons........but all tendons and ligaments have relatively very poor blood supply and repairative properties compared to muscle

I might need someone to spell this out for me. So we know he had a procedure on his hamstring. But we do not know if its a muscle or tendon tear. CND is leaning toward a tendon tear which could mean longer than 2 or 3 weeks?

Allstar
10-04-2011, 08:17 PM
He should travel across seas and get stem cell treatment :breakdance:

fiasco west
10-04-2011, 08:24 PM
Ben Tate and Ward

I say the team just transforms into a grind it out defensive team. Splitting carries between Tate and Foster and Ward that's a great run game right there and enough ball control offense to win games and force teams to pass.

Really everyone needs to step up, defense etc etc but really on offense the run game needs to be unstoppable to open up the pass game.

I think we can survive, just that we are likely to lose against Baltimore but we could still have lost to them with AJ.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 08:27 PM
I might need someone to spell this out for me. So we know he had a procedure on his hamstring. But we do not know if its a muscle or tendon tear. CND is leaning toward a tendon tear which could mean longer than 2 or 3 weeks?

You are correct.

Think back to Rashad Butler when he was listed in week 3 injury report as "elbow." During this time he was participating in "limited practice." Then one day, he is classified as "out" with a triceps rupture. How does an elbow problem translate / lead to a triceps rupture? Because, all along, he had a triceps TENDON problem. The triceps tendon attaches to the elbow and an tendon tear essentially led to a total rupture near or at the boney attachment.

Similarly, the distal hamstring tendon attaches to the lower leg bone in the back of the knee. AJ grabbed the back of his knee, not the belly of his hamstring muscle which is the classic reaction to a muscle tear. A muscle tear classically results in excrutiatingly painful spasm of the torn muscle. Walking is noticeably affected, many times not possible. A distal tendon tear may not be very painful after immediate tear unless stressed and may result in relatively normal gait. All of this goes into my analysis from the perspective of an "outsider" looking in.

EllisUnit
10-04-2011, 08:30 PM
You are correct.

Think back to Rashad Butler when he was listed in week 3 injury report as "elbow." During this time he was participating in "limited practice." Then one day, he is classified as "out" with a triceps rupture. How does an elbow problem translate / lead to a triceps rupture? Because, all along, he had a triceps TENDON problem. The triceps tendon attaches to the elbow and an tendon tear essentially led to a total rupture near or at the boney attachment.

Similarly, the distal hamstring tendon attaches to the lower leg bone in the back of the knee. AJ grabbed the back of his knee, not the belly of his hamstring muscle which is the classic reaction to a muscle tear. A muscle tear classically results in excrutiatingly painful spasm of the torn muscle. Walking is noticeably affected, sometimes not possible. A distal tendon tear may not be very painful after immediate tear unless stressed and may result in relatively normal gait. All of this goes into my analysis from the perspective of an "outsider" looking in.

So do you think the team is lying to use then ? Cause he had MRIs, and he has surgery to remove scar tissue so it heals faster ! Does this mean the MRI and doctors are all wrong our is the team lying to us ?

houstonspartan
10-04-2011, 08:32 PM
Why is my gut telling me we're f--ked?

gtexan02
10-04-2011, 08:34 PM
So do you think the team is lying to use then ? Cause he had MRIs, and he has surgery to remove scar tissue so it heals faster ! Does this mean the MRI and doctors are all wrong our is the team lying to us ?

Plus he said himself he feels fine

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 08:38 PM
So do you think the team is lying to use then ? Cause he had MRIs, and he has surgery to remove scar tissue so it heals faster ! Does this mean the MRI and doctors are all wrong our is the team lying to us ?

What I'm saying without having inside info on this is that there are so many things in this story that don't make too much sense.

Texn4life
10-04-2011, 08:39 PM
All of this medical talk makes my head hurt. Very informative, but way over my head. Thanks for all of the great insight though CND! Hope Andre has as quick a recovery as possible. Now let's go grab a vet who can come make some plays for us.

Allstar
10-04-2011, 08:41 PM
Looks like we're gonna need to start relying on our D a lot more. I am encouraged after the 4th quater on Sunday, and it's not like we're gonna face any more Drew Breeses the rest of the year.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 08:42 PM
Plus he said himself he feels fine

He may say he feels fine, but obviously something is "unfine" enough to admittedly anticipate at least 3 weeks out after several MRI's, multiple opinions and a "medical procedure."

DocBar
10-04-2011, 08:47 PM
What I'm saying without having inside info on this is that there are so many things in this story that don't make too much sense.I barely have non-medical insight and I'm boggled.
Wouldn't a surgery to prevent scar tissue cause scar tissue since scar tissue is caused by injury/surgery? From my many rehab courses, we worked, post surgically, to keep flexability and range of motion in affected joints. I did a lot of pre-surgery exercises to promote flexability and range of motion, but never even heard of preventive surgery to lessen the probability of scar tissue. Granted, that's only through 6 orthopedic procedures in the last 10 years. I need a few more, so maybe it's changed.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 08:50 PM
So I guess they didn't cut him right? Some other procedure? 3 weeks is fast for surgery.

Unless they are purposely including surgery in the word "medical" for "protective" reasons, the most likely procedure is platelet rich plasma injections, which despite having an avid anecdotal following, has had no proven consistency in the medical literature.

You may wish to read this NEW YORK TIMES review article :
Popular Blood Therapy May Not Work (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/health/13tendon.html)

GhostRaider2007
10-04-2011, 08:51 PM
Link:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1575/andre-johnson

The Houston Chronicle's John McClain reports Andre Johnson will miss three weeks after undergoing a procedure to prevent scar tissue and "speed the recovery" of his hamstring.

Hamstring surgeries typically require a much longer recovery period, but Johnson's procedure seems more like a cutting-edge platelet-rich plasma therapy. He's not having the tendon re-attached to the bone, rather expediting the recovery process. Johnson will miss games against the Raiders, Ravens, and likely the Titans over the next three weeks, aiming for a return against the Jags in Week 8. Jacoby Jones and Kevin Walter will start this week, though Owen Daniels will likely be the No. 1 weapon in the passing game. Oct 4 - 6:47 PM
Source: Houston Chronicle

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 09:00 PM
Link:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1575/andre-johnson

The Houston Chronicle's John McClain reports Andre Johnson will miss three weeks after undergoing a procedure to prevent scar tissue and "speed the recovery" of his hamstring.

Hamstring surgeries typically require a much longer recovery period, but Johnson's procedure seems more like a cutting-edge platelet-rich plasma therapy. He's not having the tendon re-attached to the bone, rather expediting the recovery process. Johnson will miss games against the Raiders, Ravens, and likely the Titans over the next three weeks, aiming for a return against the Jags in Week 8. Jacoby Jones and Kevin Walter will start this week, though Owen Daniels will likely be the No. 1 weapon in the passing game. Oct 4 - 6:47 PM
Source: Houston Chronicle

Thanks for your post, GhostRaide.

Finally.........affirmation of my diagnosis of the DISTAL HAMSTRING TENDON TORN FROM THE BONE.

I've already posted the healing period expected without surgery.

TimeKiller
10-04-2011, 09:03 PM
Well, I wish him the best but I think 3 weeks is pretty optomistic. AJ is the man and if anybody could do it, it would be him.

And please, quit acting like he is triple teamed every down. They might lean towards him in zones, they might double team on big plays but he's not climbing over a wall of DB's to make every catch...The other guys on this team that get paid to make offense happen are pretty good too.

conundrum
10-04-2011, 09:06 PM
Everyone needs to stop being so pessimistic, it's 2011, it would not be a big deal for him to recover within 3 weeks. I bet if playoffs were around the corner, number 80 could suit up within 2 weeks.

We have a top defense and arguably the best rushing attack in the league, we can man the fort until aj is back. Rally behind the troops ppl and stop feeling so down and thinking everyone's out to get us.

Carr Bombed
10-04-2011, 09:08 PM
Thanks for your post, GhostRaide.

Finally.........affirmation of my diagnosis of the DISTAL HAMSTRING TENDON TORN FROM THE BONE.

I've already posted the healing period expected without surgery.


Can you please elaborate on this new release/diagnosis? Are they saying he has a tendon torn from his bone? How can you even play like that, much less run around? I don't get how a player can tear a tendon from his bone and be back on a football field in 3 weeks. Is that even possible? Also was the "procedure" that they did perform today, done just to allow him to take a shortcut from I.R. but he'll have to go back and have actual surgery during the offseason?

All this stuff is like WHOOSH! right over my head. :vincepalm:

Carr Bombed
10-04-2011, 09:12 PM
Everyone needs to stop being so pessimistic, it's 2011, it would not be a big deal for him to recover within 3 weeks. I bet if playoffs were around the corner, number 80 could suit up within 2 weeks.

We have a top defense and arguably the best rushing attack in the league, we can man the fort until aj is back. Rally behind the troops ppl and stop feeling so down and thinking everyone's out to get us.

??? what are you talking about. Who here is talking about people "being out to get us".


This is a potentially serious injury to our franchise player, if you want to bury your head in the sand and act like there's nothing to be worried about then go right on ahead. The rest of us will be concerned about our franchise player until we see him looking like his old self back out on the football field again...especially with the Texans' history of hiding/SEVERELY underselling the severity of player injuries.

DocBar
10-04-2011, 09:14 PM
How's that?It would be more intuitive for larger(more important) tendons and ligaments to have a better blood supply than smaller, less significant ones. Tendons are physiologically different than ligaments in that they need a better blood supply to exist. Ligaments are oftem much more isolated from the blood supply by the very nature of their job tham a tendon is. Having said that, I've witnessed far too many "firings" of horses tendons to promote blood supply.

Texans_Chick
10-04-2011, 09:19 PM
My blog post on this.

Andre Johnson’s leg injury…hello, panicky speculation [UPDATE about procedure] (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2011/10/andre-johnsons-injury-hamstring-leg-knee/)

I'm pretty sure it is Platelet-Rich Plasma treatment. I know for a fact he had it done on his ankle last year. I know that the Texans use PRP. They didn't say it was a surgery. And there are very few things I can think of that you could do to a hamstring to encourage healing through a procedure.

What I don't know is his return because we don't know how severe the hamstring injury is or any specifics. Texans have underestimated AJ return times in the past, most notably in 2007.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 09:21 PM
Can you please elaborate on this new release/diagnosis? Are they saying he has a tendon torn from his bone? How can you even play like that, much less run around? I don't get how a player can tear a tendon from his bone and be back on a football field in 3 weeks. Is that even possible? Also was the "procedure" that they did perform today, done just to allow him to take a shortcut from I.R. but he'll have to go back and have actual surgery during the offseason?

All this stuff is like WHOOSH! right over my head. :vincepalm:

I've explained the answers to your question in past posts.

I will repost this old post .

He said that he could be back in a few days or a few weeks..........will get some additional 2nd opinions.

This makes me think that the 2nd opinions are to determine whether to take a non-surgical vs surgical approach. In other words, I believe that the MRI may have already identified a subtotal tear or complete tear/avulsion of the distal hamstring tendon (or the PCL). With a distal hamstring avulsion, there has been controversy whether to surgically repair or not.

Most hamstring tears/avulsions occur more proximal as in this illustration.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/figures/A00408F02.jpg


(See my previous post showing the distal hamstring tendon attachments.)

One study published in the past few years reported on elite athletes with this type of injury. They found that in the nonoperative treatment group (12), 7 players recovered at an average of 10.4 weeks (range, 3-35). Five of these players (42%) failed initial nonoperative treatment (mean, 16.8 weeks) and subsequently had surgery to resect the torn tendon and surrounding scar tissue. These 5 players recovered at an average of 12.8 weeks postoperatively. In the acute [immediate] surgery group, 5 players had surgery to resect the torn tendon and scar tissue within 4 weeks of injury. The acute-phase group had an average recovery of 6.8 weeks after surgery.

I believe that this is possibly the dilemma facing AJ and the organization. Making a decision that at least gets him back before the end of the season or playoffs.

Again, let me emphasize that I have no access to the findings, physical or radiological. But if this were just a straight forward "minor" hamstring problems, I don't believe that there would be need for several 2nd opinions.

Let me leave you with this article that appeared after an MRI was obtained in 2007 following AJ's PCL/MCL injury. You might want to compare some of the wording.

Sprained knee may keep Johnson out vs. Colts

By Megan Manfull - Houston Chronicle

Andre Johnson, who hurt his left knee Sunday against the Carolina Panthers, is doubtful to play for the Texans when the team plays the Indianapolis Colts this Sunday at Reliant Stadium. The Texans had an MRI done on Johnson's knee Monday morning and it revealed a sprain.

"I would say that he is doubtful for that football game," Kubiak said. "We'll know more in the next couple of days. There was no swelling, but there's definitely a sprain there. It's a concern right now."

The initial diagnosis was that Johnson had strained his posterior cruciate ligament. He hurt it during a big hit that followed his last catch a 10-yard grab with 11:58 to go in the game.

"He has a knee sprain," Kubiak said. "That's the good news and the bad news. We feel fortunate. Andre is going to be fine. Is he going to be fine in one week? Or is he going to be fine in four weeks? We're still in the evaluation stage. We don't know."

Johnson currently ranks fourth in the league with 262 receiving yards on 14 catches. The next most productive receiver on the team is rookie Jacoby Jones with 33 receiving yards on two catches. Kevin Walter has two catches for 17 yards.

If Johnson can't go on Sunday, Andre' Davis will be activated.

AJ ending up missing 7 games..........

Texans_Chick
10-04-2011, 09:22 PM
Thanks for your post, GhostRaide.

Finally.........affirmation of my diagnosis of the DISTAL HAMSTRING TENDON TORN FROM THE BONE.

I've already posted the healing period expected without surgery.

No. No tendon torn from bone report.

I've visited with the Rotoworld writer. They just take info from McClain's report. Roto-writer told me he made a mistake to reference surgery. McClain or Berman have no details on extent of injury. They are just referencing hamstring injury + a procedure to aid healing.

Lucky
10-04-2011, 09:25 PM
Finally.........affirmation of my diagnosis of the DISTAL HAMSTRING TENDON TORN FROM THE BONE.

I've already posted the healing period expected without surgery.



One study published in the past few years reported on elite athletes with this type of injury. They found that in the nonoperative treatment group (12), 7 players recovered at an average of 10.4 weeks (range, 3-35). Five of these players (42%) failed initial nonoperative treatment (mean, 16.8 weeks) and subsequently had surgery to resect the torn tendon and surrounding scar tissue. These 5 players recovered at an average of 12.8 weeks postoperatively. In the acute [immediate] surgery group, 5 players had surgery to resect the torn tendon and scar tissue within 4 weeks of injury. The acute-phase group had an average recovery of 6.8 weeks after surgery.

So nonoperative treatment has an average recovery period of 10.4 weeks? But immediate surgery has an average recovery period time of 6.8 weeks? Can you explain why the Texans doctors aren't opting for immediate surgery?

Texans_Chick
10-04-2011, 09:29 PM
I'm pretty sure in 2005 when he had a calf/back of knee leg problem, (LEFT LEG) where he missed two games, he had a second opinion. I was at an event and AJ showed up late coming back from an out of state dr opinion.

GP
10-04-2011, 09:29 PM
Until JoeTexan weighs in on this, we should all just stop jumping to conclusions.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 09:30 PM
It would be more intuitive for larger(more important) tendons and ligaments to have a better blood supply than smaller, less significant ones. Tendons are physiologically different than ligaments in that they need a better blood supply to exist. Ligaments are oftem much more isolated from the blood supply by the very nature of their job tham a tendon is. Having said that, I've witnessed far too many "firings" of horses tendons to promote blood supply.

Muscle has a vast number and large blood vessels running all along their outside borders as well as well distributed throughout their bulk. They are VERY well blood supplied.

Tendons have very much smaller blood vessels that essential run along their borders with virtually none running within their substance. Therefore, the greater the size of the tendon, the further away from the supplying blood vessel on the surface, and hence a very much greater lack of blood supply getting to the deeper substance.

I hope that answers your question.

Texans_Chick
10-04-2011, 09:30 PM
So nonoperative treatment has an average recovery period of 10.4 weeks? But immediate surgery has an average recovery period time of 6.8 weeks? Can you explain why the Texans doctors aren't opting for immediate surgery?

I really don't think we have enough information to guess what sort of "hamstring issue" AJ has. McClain/Berman not specific on injury. Nobody else has the info. I'm pretty sure that he had PRP treatment because he had before and through process of elimination based on what we know.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 09:33 PM
So nonoperative treatment has an average recovery period of 10.4 weeks? But immediate surgery has an average recovery period time of 6.8 weeks? Can you explain why the Texans doctors aren't opting for immediate surgery?

Sorry, Lucky. I wish I could. But I'm at a loss for understanding their choice of approach.

Texans_Chick
10-04-2011, 09:36 PM
Sorry, Lucky. I wish I could. But I'm at a loss for understanding their choice of approach.

I don't think that his injury is serious enough to require surgical repair. Rotoworld report only one that mentions surgery and their writer noted to me that he made a mistake misreading McClain's report thinking it said surgery.

Carr Bombed
10-04-2011, 09:36 PM
I really don't think we have enough information to guess what sort of "hamstring issue" AJ has. McClain/Berman not specific on injury. Nobody else has the info. I'm pretty sure that he had PRP treatment because he had before and through process of elimination based on what we know.

Where there's smoke there's fire....why is McClain even talking about a torn tendon if they have no clue of what's going on?

I really REALLY hate our sports journalist in this city. This might as well be B.F.E, Texas U.S.A. The caliber of sports reporting would be exactly the same.

Carr Bombed
10-04-2011, 09:39 PM
Sorry, Lucky. I wish I could. But I'm at a loss for understanding their choice of approach.

Oh I completely understand their choice of approach. When there's multiple choices available, always pick the incompetent one...it's what this team does. They consistently mishandle injuries on this team...just look at Arian.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 09:47 PM
I don't think that his injury is serious enough to require surgical repair. Rotoworld report only one that mentions surgery and their writer noted to me that he made a mistake misreading McClain's report thinking it said surgery.

Thank you for your research. From the available info, the distal tendon being torn is most likely. As I posted prior to you joining us, I agree with you that if a "medical procedure" was performed , it was most likely PRP injections

Things are very screwy and difficult to trust when one report by McClain specifies "medical procedure" then a following update (9:35 pm) of the article states:

Depending on how fast he recovers after undergoing a surgical procedure to prevent scar tissue from forming around a slight tear in his right hamstring, there's an outside chance Johnson might be ready for the Oct. 23 game against the Titans.link (http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Johnson-will-miss-at-least-two-games-for-Texans-2202686.php#photo-1641267)

Texans_Chick
10-04-2011, 10:24 PM
Thank you for your research. From the available info, the distal tendon being torn is most likely. As I posted prior to you joining us, I agree with you that if a "medical procedure" was performed , it was most likely PRP injections

Things are very screwy and difficult to trust when one report by McClain specifies "medical procedure" then a following update (9:35 pm) of the article states:

link (http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Johnson-will-miss-at-least-two-games-for-Texans-2202686.php#photo-1641267)

Interesting. I will see what I can find out. Is it surgical procedure or mistaken reference. Perhaps aspirating a pocket of blood? Reduce scar tissue but doesn't really aid recovery. What surgical procedure could have him ready by Titans game? BTW agents reference to HIPAA is joke- not relevant to discussion.

steelbtexan
10-04-2011, 10:25 PM
Oh I completely understand their choice of approach. When there's multiple choices available, always pick the incompetent one...it's what this team does. They consistently mishandle injuries on this team...just look at Arian.

Aint this the truth. Wish I could rep you.

Who on this MB has faith in the Texans medical staff? I'm calling you out Dr. Lowe

How the Texans have downplayed injuries from Boselli to Joppru to DDW to AF to AJ is flat out sickening to me.

houstonspartan
10-04-2011, 10:34 PM
Oh I completely understand their choice of approach. When there's multiple choices available, always pick the incompetent one...it's what this team does. They consistently mishandle injuries on this team...just look at Arian.

Funny you should say that. I was driving in the car listening to sports radio and was thinking the same thing. I was wondering about our strength conditioning and medical team. We seem to have a lot of injuries, and then seem to bungle the recovery of most of them.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2011, 10:45 PM
Interesting. I will see what I can find out. Is it surgical procedure or mistaken reference. Perhaps aspirating a pocket of blood? Reduce scar tissue but doesn't really aid recovery. What surgical procedure could have him ready by Titans game? BTW agents reference to HIPAA is joke- not relevant to discussion.

Draining a hematoma after 48 hours would likely require incisional (surgical) drainage since it would likely be clotted by then. Aspiration would be expected right after its formation or about 10 days later when it usually begins liquifying. Being able to remove a pocket of blood (hematoma) could theoretically lessen the inflammatory effects on the surrounding tissues and lessen the morbidity during healing, rather than allow it to absorb naturally over time. Whatever accurate info you can obtain would be nice. Your sources still may not be willing to finger the problem. Good luck (sincerely).:tiphat:

Texans_Chick
10-04-2011, 10:47 PM
Aint this the truth. Wish I could rep you.

Who on this MB has faith in the Texans medical staff? I'm calling you out Dr. Lowe

How the Texans have downplayed injuries from Boselli to Joppru to DDW to AF to AJ is flat out sickening to me.

There are strategic reasons to do so with AJ. Make other team prepare for him.

EllisUnit
10-04-2011, 10:51 PM
ok so i will look for him to suit up next week then :slapfight: i wish the FO office would keep us fans informed, all this B.S about his injury either means its worse our not as bad, i will just expect him to play every week that'll be the easiest way to avoid Message board suicide :choke:

gwallaia
10-04-2011, 10:51 PM
"platelet rich plasma injections"

I used to watch Star Trek the Next Generation all the time. This sounds exactly like something Dr. Beverly Crusher would do.

Ryan
10-04-2011, 10:56 PM
Seriously the one time Schaub is able to complete a pass like that and it hurts his star WR. This franchise's luck :vincepalm:

steelbtexan
10-04-2011, 11:05 PM
There are strategic reasons to do so with AJ. Make other team prepare for him.

So you have faith in the Texans medical staff?

Inspite of their track record.

Texans_Chick
10-04-2011, 11:23 PM
So you have faith in the Texans medical staff?

Inspite of their track record.

The NFL is a violent sport. Some things are not preventable. I have no opinion one way or another. I do not believe hamstring injuries are easily preventable. Biggest risk factor is being fast.

The Pencil Neck
10-04-2011, 11:28 PM
ok so i will look for him to suit up next week then :slapfight: i wish the FO office would keep us fans informed, all this B.S about his injury either means its worse our not as bad, i will just expect him to play every week that'll be the easiest way to avoid Message board suicide :choke:

If we, the fans, are informed then all the teams we'll be facing will also be informed.

I prefer to be ignorant if it gives the team an advantage because the opposing team doesn't know what to prepare for.

Transparency is all great and wonderful in business but in football, I want it totally opaque. At least when it comes to my team.

Texan_Bill
10-04-2011, 11:31 PM
So you have faith in the Texans medical staff?

Inspite of their track record.

I'm pretty sure that Steph has ABSOLUTELY no faith in the Texans Medical staff..... As any of would have!!!! #Liars!!!

Whatever they say,,, Go oppo!!!

Texan_Bill
10-04-2011, 11:39 PM
Actually.... I'm residing myself to the possibility that we may or may not see AJ back this season (If at all), late in the season,,,,,,,,

Oh well, sucks for us!!!

My thoughts are still playoffs or BUST!!!

otisbean
10-05-2011, 05:59 AM
The NFL is a violent sport. Some things are not preventable. I have no opinion one way or another. I do not believe hamstring injuries are easily preventable. Biggest risk factor is being fast.

While some injuries cannot be helped, hamstring injuries can be prevented. Injury prevention should be the strength and conditioning staffs primary job. The fastest way to achieve optimal performance is to get an athlete as healthy as possible. Look for muscle imbalances and correct them, look for restrictions in proper joint mobility and improper posture and correct these issues, and properly condition your athletes so that fatigue isn't a factor. I would say the biggest risk factors in hamstring injuries are muscle imbalances, postural issues, and improper mobility not being fast sprinter. Speed is related to the amount of mass specific force you produce, the more force you put into the ground per pound of bodyweight the faster your run. If you can produce the force you should be able to handle it.

Here's where the above mentioned factors become an issue, if you have muscle imbalances you are asking certain muscles to do more than their fair share of the work involved in producing movement. These overloaded muscles have a higher propensity for straining. For example, the gluteals are the body's primary hip extenders, the hamstrings aid in this function. If the glutes are weak or inhibited than the hamstrings will try to perform more than their fair share making injury likely. If the quads are too strong then they can over stress the hamstrings, as they work in opposition, making injury more likely.

Poor posture, primarily an anterior pelvic tilt, can over stretch the hamstrings, which can increase the likelihood of injury. The more a muscle is stretched the less force it can produce/handle. Weak abdominals, obliques and tight hip flexors create this issue and over stress the hammies. This anterior pelvic tilt can also inhibit the gluteals - which causes issues as stated above.

Improper weight training can also lead to injury. When sprinting, the muscles involved have to turn on and off very rapidly. The difference between elite athletes and average Joes is seen not only in their ability to turn their muscles on to a higher degree but also to turn them off to a greater degree. If the muscle is carrying too much tension at a time when it is supposed to be relaxed then injury can occur. Weight training can foul this sequence up if the training program is improperly set up. Noted strength coach Barry Ross ( the strength coach for Allison Felix, one of the top 200 meter sprinters in the world) focuses much of his training around the deadlift. When performing the DL, he has his athletes drop the bar once it gets above the knees to avoid a slow eccentric contraction with a heavy load. These slow eccentric contractions can cause issues in sprinters performing high speed sprints. Noted strength coach Charles Poliquin has stated the fastest way to pull a hamstring is to have athletes leg press and perform leg curls. These two exercise complete ignore the hamstrings primary function of hip extension, predisposing it for injury. Fast eccentrics, such as plyometrics and exercises such as the kettlebell swing, can help prevent muscle strains by exposing the muscles to higher stretch loads but in a manageable way.

Admittedly there are lot of factors involved in prevention, but hamstring issues can be avoided. There are some issues that may not be avoided. All athletes get fatigued during competition and when muscles are fatigued they can't handle the same forces as when they're fresh - the easy answer would be to get into proper condition so that fatigue doesn't happen as easily. Additionally, when being tackled or trying to avoid a tackle the athlete can get into funky positions which can over stress a muscles, but fast eccentrics can aid in this situation as well by creating a better tolerance for higher stretch loads.

thunderkyss
10-05-2011, 07:11 AM
So nonoperative treatment has an average recovery period of 10.4 weeks? But immediate surgery has an average recovery period time of 6.8 weeks? Can you explain why the Texans doctors aren't opting for immediate surgery?

I'm thinking CnD's prognosis takes into account complete tears of the tendon in question.

I would imagine the recovery time would depend on the severity of the tear.

Also, unless it is a complete tear, I don't think surgery can do anything for it.

thunderkyss
10-05-2011, 07:21 AM
Actually.... I'm residing myself to the possibility that we may or may not see AJ back this season (If at all), late in the season,,,,,,,,

Oh well, sucks for us!!!

My thoughts are still playoffs or BUST!!!

Other than Aj saying he is fine & the time out is just precautionary.

Señor Stan
10-05-2011, 07:34 AM
"platelet rich plasma injections"





If they used baby unicorn stem cells, I would be totally OK with it.

Blake
10-05-2011, 07:47 AM
Without having read anything in this entire thread my assumption is that he will be out 3 weeks.

He will miss the Raiders at home, Ravens on the road, and Titans on the road. He will be back for the Jags at home.

SheTexan
10-05-2011, 07:48 AM
It is what it is!! We can speculate about AJs injury until hell freezes over, and it will STILL be what it is!! Only AJ and his Docs know for sure, and that's fine with me!! We, as fans, are NOT on a need to know basis! If we are told the truth then the rest of the NFL knows the truth. I'm just fine with a bunch of misleading statements, if it throws off the balance in our favor. An "elite" team will find a way to win without their "STARS." We have a lot of weapons on our offense, JAMES CASEY, to mention one, and I think our guys will go out and bust ass for a win!! It's a TEAM sport! I hope we are never identified like the Colts, a team that is nothing without that ONE special player! Truthfully, I think our mild, easy going, soft spoken AJ, will be our biggest cheerleader for the next 3,6,9,10 whatever, wks he is out! He believes in this team, and every player on our team respects the heck out of AJ. Gotta have faith, and I intend to keep on believing in this team, even though I still close my eyes and hold my breath everytime JJ gets the ball!

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 07:55 AM
McClain on 610 radio this morning was asked about the surgical procedure AJ had. He did not correct the interviewer, but went on to nonspecifically refer to "the procedure." He said that grabbing the back of the knee had everyone thinking it was an Achilles or knee ligament injury. Distal hamstring was not originally entertained. He said that the procedure was to avoid scar tissue from forming during the healing.....causing it to heal quicker.

hradhak
10-05-2011, 07:55 AM
All the studies I've seen surrounding platelet rich plasma and tissue repair are too small and the results have been somewhat mixed. I know that theory sounds good on paper, and injecting rats with it seems to improve outcomes, but it hasn't translated well into humans. The other problem with it is that no one has any sort of dosing, the amount of growth factors in the injection varies highly, and we don't even know what is the proper amount per injection.

We also don't know all the long term effects of it.

It may work great, but right now it needs to be studied thoroughly before it becomes the mainstay for therapy.

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 08:17 AM
Interesting. I will see what I can find out. Is it surgical procedure or mistaken reference. Perhaps aspirating a pocket of blood? Reduce scar tissue but doesn't really aid recovery. What surgical procedure could have him ready by Titans game? BTW agents reference to HIPAA is joke- not relevant to discussion.

Another thought, TC. Typically, hematoma drainage is not performed unless the hematoma is LARGE (otherwise treated with massage and ultrasound treatments to help absorbtion, decreasing swelling and softening of any scar tissue that forms. Unless large, the morbidity (infection, drain if left in place, further scarring, etc) in performing a surgical draining typically outweighs its use. A further complicating factor is that when a player sustains an injury like this, they have usually ingested blood thinner elements such as anti-inflammatories (Aspirin, Motrin, Advil), alcohol (we know most players love their beer, wine and spirits), fish oil supplements, antioxidants, etc........many of which can affect bleeding for up to 10 days. The troublesome point is if there was a complicating LARGE hematoma, there will be significant surrounding tissue inflammation and potential for significant increased scar formation (albeit possibly somewhat less than if not drained) anyway........despite drainage.

hradhak
10-05-2011, 08:19 AM
Another thought, TC. Typically, hematoma drainage is not performed unless the hematoma is LARGE (otherwise treated with massage and ultrasound treatments to help absorbtion, decreasing swelling and softening of any scar tissue that forms. Unless large, the morbidity (infection, drain if left in place, further scarring, etc) in performing a surgical draining typically outweighs its use. A further complicating factor is that when a player sustains an injury like this, they have usually ingested blood thinner elements such as anti-inflammatories (Aspirin, Motrin, Advil), fish oil supplements, antioxidants, etc........many of which can affect bleeding for up to 10 days. The troublesome point is if there was a complicating LARGE hematoma, there will be significant surrounding tissue inflammation and potential for significant increased scar formation (albeit possibly somewhat less than if not drained)........despite drainage.

Yeah, I've drained maybe 3 hematomas in my life, and they were always on patients on anticoagulants. And in all 3 cases they were to prevent compartment syndrome. I wouldn't see any reason to do so in his case.

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 08:22 AM
All the studies I've seen surrounding platelet rich plasma and tissue repair are too small and the results have been somewhat mixed. I know that theory sounds good on paper, and injecting rats with it seems to improve outcomes, but it hasn't translated well into humans. The other problem with it is that no one has any sort of dosing, the amount of growth factors in the injection varies highly, and we don't even know what is the proper amount per injection.

We also don't know all the long term effects of it.

It may work great, but right now it needs to be studied thoroughly before it becomes the mainstay for therapy.

Agree on all points. I wrote extensively on this subject when AJ was treated with this modality for his high ankle sprain............and the literature has not been any more supportive since that time.

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 08:33 AM
While some injuries cannot be helped, hamstring injuries can be prevented. Injury prevention should be the strength and conditioning staffs primary job. The fastest way to achieve optimal performance is to get an athlete as healthy as possible. Look for muscle imbalances and correct them, look for restrictions in proper joint mobility and improper posture and correct these issues, and properly condition your athletes so that fatigue isn't a factor. I would say the biggest risk factors in hamstring injuries are muscle imbalances, postural issues, and improper mobility not being fast sprinter. Speed is related to the amount of mass specific force you produce, the more force you put into the ground per pound of bodyweight the faster your run. If you can produce the force you should be able to handle it.

Here's where the above mentioned factors become an issue, if you have muscle imbalances you are asking certain muscles to do more than their fair share of the work involved in producing movement. These overloaded muscles have a higher propensity for straining. For example, the gluteals are the body's primary hip extenders, the hamstrings aid in this function. If the glutes are weak or inhibited than the hamstrings will try to perform more than their fair share making injury likely. If the quads are too strong then they can over stress the hamstrings, as they work in opposition, making injury more likely.

Poor posture, primarily an anterior pelvic tilt, can over stretch the hamstrings, which can increase the likelihood of injury. The more a muscle is stretched the less force it can produce/handle. Weak abdominals, obliques and tight hip flexors create this issue and over stress the hammies. This anterior pelvic tilt can also inhibit the gluteals - which causes issues as stated above.

Improper weight training can also lead to injury. When sprinting, the muscles involved have to turn on and off very rapidly. The difference between elite athletes and average Joes is seen not only in their ability to turn their muscles on to a higher degree but also to turn them off to a greater degree. If the muscle is carrying too much tension at a time when it is supposed to be relaxed then injury can occur. Weight training can foul this sequence up if the training program is improperly set up. Noted strength coach Barry Ross ( the strength coach for Allison Felix, one of the top 200 meter sprinters in the world) focuses much of his training around the deadlift. When performing the DL, he has his athletes drop the bar once it gets above the knees to avoid a slow eccentric contraction with a heavy load. These slow eccentric contractions can cause issues in sprinters performing high speed sprints. Noted strength coach Charles Poliquin has stated the fastest way to pull a hamstring is to have athletes leg press and perform leg curls. These two exercise complete ignore the hamstrings primary function of hip extension, predisposing it for injury. Fast eccentrics, such as plyometrics and exercises such as the kettlebell swing, can help prevent muscle strains by exposing the muscles to higher stretch loads but in a manageable way.

Admittedly there are lot of factors involved in prevention, but hamstring issues can be avoided. There are some issues that may not be avoided. All athletes get fatigued during competition and when muscles are fatigued they can't handle the same forces as when they're fresh - the easy answer would be to get into proper condition so that fatigue doesn't happen as easily. Additionally, when being tackled or trying to avoid a tackle the athlete can get into funky positions which can over stress a muscles, but fast eccentrics can aid in this situation as well by creating a better tolerance for higher stretch loads.

Otisbean, very good post.
You and I have discussed this on the board in the past, almost to exhaustion.
No doubt that the occurrence of hamstring injuries cannot be totally eradicated. But they definitely can be very much minimized with careful adherence to the basic principles by players and their conditioning personell.

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 09:42 AM
BTW, Rick Smith on 610 stated that he had no idea where the 2-3 week time table came from...........essentially saying he will be back when he will be back.

Texans_Chick
10-05-2011, 09:44 AM
McClain on 610 radio this morning was asked about the surgical procedure AJ had. He did not correct the interviewer, but went on to nonspecifically refer to "the procedure." He said that grabbing the back of the knee had everyone thinking it was an Achilles or knee ligament injury. Distal hamstring was not originally entertained. He said that the procedure was to avoid scar tissue from forming during the healing.....causing it to heal quicker.

OK, was able to run some traps this morning.

I was informed that Andre Johnson did receive PRP treatment.

I was unable to get any details about the injury.

That a person received PRP treatment doesn't help you figure out how fast they will return.

Updated my post here: http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2011/10/andre-johnsons-injury-hamstring-leg-knee/

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 09:52 AM
OK, was able to run some traps this morning.

I was informed that Andre Johnson did receive PRP treatment.

I was unable to get any details about the injury.

That a person received PRP treatment doesn't help you figure out how fast they will return.

Updated my post here: http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2011/10/andre-johnsons-injury-hamstring-leg-knee/

Thanks, that would have been the most likely "medical procedure" performed.
Unfortunately, at this point in time there is no proof that PRP therapy has any more effect on recovery than beads and gords.

Texans_Chick
10-05-2011, 09:56 AM
Agree on all points. I wrote extensively on this subject when AJ was treated with this modality for his high ankle sprain............and the literature has not been any more supportive since that time.

The Steelers were one of the first teams to use this in the NFL. They've had some anecdotal positive responses to it.

Hard to do studies on this involving elite athletes receiving tons of care. Because teams don't want to share their stuff.

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 10:01 AM
TC, back to back multiple MRIs would be somewhat unusual for purposes of obtaining multiple angles since the angles of an MRI are actually obtained by the "3-dimensional" MRI software manipulated off a single MRI.

GP
10-05-2011, 10:02 AM
BTW, Rick Smith on 610 stated that he had no idea where the 2-3 week time table came from...........essentially saying he will be back when he will be back.

Dammit. :pissed:

Texans_Chick
10-05-2011, 10:12 AM
TC, back to back multiple MRIs would be somewhat unusual for purposes of obtaining multiple angles since the angles of an MRI are actually obtained by the "3-dimensional" MRI software manipulated off a single MRI.

Hmmm. I guess at this point we are talking about semantics because we don't know if we are talking about back to back multiple MRIs. We are in vague land. Sometimes intentionally so.

I will add that to my post.

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 10:15 AM
The Steelers were one of the first teams to use this in the NFL. They've had some anecdotal positive responses to it.

Hard to do studies on this involving elite athletes receiving tons of care. Because teams don't want to share their stuff.

Anecdotal stories appear in medicine when there are occasional positives mixed with numerous cases of no apparent effects. With all the different variables in injury and concentrated traditional techniques being applied simultaneously, it is impossible to attribute any positives to that treatment alone. Controlled studies are the only way to see that a placebo effect is not in effect. Existing controlled studies when analyzed have not proven the value of these injections.

disaacks3
10-05-2011, 10:59 AM
While some injuries cannot be helped, hamstring injuries can be prevented. Injury prevention should be the strength and conditioning staffs primary job. The fastest way to achieve optimal performance is to get an athlete as healthy as possible. Look for muscle imbalances and correct them, look for restrictions in proper joint mobility and improper posture and correct these issues, and properly condition your athletes so that fatigue isn't a factor. I would say the biggest risk factors in hamstring injuries are muscle imbalances, postural issues, and improper mobility not being fast sprinter. I always remember our coaching staff in High School remodeled our conditioning program when I was a sophomore to mirror what Nebraska was doing at the time. One thing that always stuck out was the repeated insistence to keep the hamstring "max out" at 60% minimum of quad "max out". That was specifically to prevent the classic "blow-out" where the runner drops the (football, baton, etc.) and starts grabbing the back of his leg.

Thanks, that would have been the most likely "medical procedure" performed.
Unfortunately, at this point in time there is no proof that PRP therapy has any more effect on recovery than beads and gords. Leeches, you forgot leeches! :thinking:

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 11:01 AM
Updated my post here: http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2011/10/andre-johnsons-injury-hamstring-leg-knee/

TC,

At one point in time it may be useful for you to relate this basic bit of information to your readers. It seems to be a constant source of confusion. Whenever there seems to be a discussion about muscle, tendon or ligament injuries, the question comes up “Was it a sprain (or strain) or a tear?" A muscle or tendon injury is referred to as a “strain,” while a ligament injury is referred to as a “sprain.” BOTH are TEARS of their respective tissues, and are subsequently graded as to their severity.

Just a thought. Again thanks for your continuing very informative blogging. Keep up the great work!

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 11:10 AM
I always remember our coaching staff in High School remodeled our conditioning program when I was a sophomore to mirror what Nebraska was doing at the time. One thing that always stuck out was the repeated insistence to keep the hamstring "max out" at 60% minimum of quad "max out". That was specifically to prevent the classic "blow-out" where the runner drops the (football, baton, etc.) and starts grabbing the back of his leg.

Leeches, you forgot leeches! :thinking:

I've used leeches in my practice for digit replants and breast reconstruction flaps and on other injured tissues with poor venous blood return.............but they'd be just as worthless as the beads and gords on something like this..........maybe if you would eat them..........high protein, you know.........protein's good for healing............by gosh, Dissacks........you may just have hit on something...........quick, call the Texans!:)

Texans_Chick
10-05-2011, 11:26 AM
Anecdotal stories appear in medicine when there are occasional positives mixed with numerous cases of no apparent effects. With all the different variables in injury and concentrated traditional techniques being applied simultaneously, it is impossible to attribute any positives to that treatment alone. Controlled studies are the only way to see that a placebo effect is not in effect. Existing controlled studies when analyzed have not proven the value of these injections.

Familiar with the studies. Just a difficult topic to study with football teams that don't want to share their techniques. Know that the teams that use this process very much believe in it.

Even if it were a placebo effect, given the importance of confidence in coming back from injury, that might not be a bad thing. I think they should also give him the baby unicorn stem cells too. :kitten:

HOU-TEX
10-05-2011, 11:53 AM
Familiar with the studies. Just a difficult topic to study with football teams that don't want to share their techniques. Know that the teams that use this process very much believe in it.

Even if it were a placebo effect, given the importance of confidence in coming back from injury, that might not be a bad thing. I think they should also give him the baby unicorn stem cells too. :kitten:

Nah, I'd mix gazelle and rhino and let'em eat

ObsiWan
10-05-2011, 11:54 AM
It is what it is!! We can speculate about AJs injury until hell freezes over, and it will STILL be what it is!! Only AJ and his Docs know for sure, and that's fine with me!! We, as fans, are NOT on a need to know basis! If we are told the truth then the rest of the NFL knows the truth. I'm just fine with a bunch of misleading statements, if it throws off the balance in our favor. An "elite" team will find a way to win without their "STARS." We have a lot of weapons on our offense, JAMES CASEY, to mention one, and I think our guys will go out and bust ass for a win!! It's a TEAM sport! I hope we are never identified like the Colts, a team that is nothing without that ONE special player! Truthfully, I think our mild, easy going, soft spoken AJ, will be our biggest cheerleader for the next 3,6,9,10 whatever, wks he is out! He believes in this team, and every player on our team respects the heck out of AJ. Gotta have faith, and I intend to keep on believing in this team, even though I still close my eyes and hold my breath everytime JJ gets the ball!
Yeah!!!
You tell 'em sistah!!!
Rep worthy.




....meanwhile I chose to
:firehair:

It just makes me feel better.

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 12:07 PM
Familiar with the studies. Just a difficult topic to study with football teams that don't want to share their techniques. Know that the teams that use this process very much believe in it.

Even if it were a placebo effect, given the importance of confidence in coming back from injury, that might not be a bad thing. I think they should also give him the baby unicorn stem cells too. :kitten:

You're right! LOL

ObsiWan
10-05-2011, 12:18 PM
Familiar with the studies. Just a difficult topic to study with football teams that don't want to share their techniques. Know that the teams that use this process very much believe in it.

Even if it were a placebo effect, given the importance of confidence in coming back from injury, that might not be a bad thing. I think they should also give him the baby unicorn stem cells too. :kitten:
I heard that Peyton flew to Europe for that treatment but it was ineffective...
:kitten:

Brisco_County
10-05-2011, 12:48 PM
Stephanie, you've been quoted at The Red Zone.

Stephanie Stradley of the Houston Chronicle reports she was told through a trusted source that Texans wide receiver Andre Johnson received Platelet-Rich Plasma (PRP) Therapy.

She did not receiver confirmation from anyone with the team or his agent, given their stance that they are not going to comment on the specific procedure. She has no details of the injury other than what has been reported "a slight tear in his right hamstring."

Link (http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/20696/Report--Andre-Johnson-underwent-PRP-therapy/Default.aspx)

Forget ESPN-- you've hit the big time now.

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 12:49 PM
I heard that Peyton flew to Europe for that treatment but it was ineffective...
:kitten:

This was performed prior to giving up the ghost and having his fusion surgery.

Stem cell treatments could likely be a legitimate reparative tool sometime in the future.
However, at this time, there are too many unknowns. How do you best harvest them.......from what tissues.........how should they be cultured........how should they be delivered........how much should be delivered........how should they be stored..........What approach of all the aforementioned will prove most useful for individual different problems.......and what are the short and long-term potential problems associated with them.......will these treatment results extrapolate from mice to men........lots of questions need to be answered before they will be generally acceptable to the medical community.

EllisUnit
10-05-2011, 02:19 PM
If we, the fans, are informed then all the teams we'll be facing will also be informed.

I prefer to be ignorant if it gives the team an advantage because the opposing team doesn't know what to prepare for.

Transparency is all great and wonderful in business but in football, I want it totally opaque. At least when it comes to my team.

well then send out a newsletter to all season ticket holders giving them the truth about injuries :choke:. HAHA just wish we had confirmation on atleast one of this teams injuries.

hradhak
10-05-2011, 02:32 PM
This was performed prior to giving up the ghost and having his fusion surgery.

Stem cell treatments could likely be a legitimate reparative tool sometime in the future.
However, at this time, there are too many unknowns. How do you best harvest them.......from what tissues.........how should they be cultured........how should they be delivered........how much should be delivered........how should they be stored..........What approach of all the aforementioned will prove most useful for individual different problems.......and what are the short and long-term potential problems associated with them.......will these treatment results extrapolate from mice to men........lots of questions need to be answered before they will be generally acceptable to the medical community.

Not to mention that a lot of stem cell treatments in mice have ended up growing into tumors. The hormone milieu that turns stem cells into nerves and other tissue is completely different when you are an adult. I'm hopeful that we somehow learn to control it, but right now it just as you said: there are too many unknowns to effectively use it.

Repped

Texans_Chick
10-05-2011, 02:49 PM
Fake AJ MRI:

http://content.screencast.com/users/TC2002/folders/Jing/media/98556466-cf59-44a9-973d-f3bc6c7da942/Fake-Imagined-AJ-Hamstring-MRI.png

drs23
10-05-2011, 02:55 PM
edit

Playoffs
10-05-2011, 03:00 PM
Fake AJ MRI:
LOL, must spread rep.

srrono
10-05-2011, 03:52 PM
http://content.screencast.com/users/TC2002/folders/Jing/media/98556466-cf59-44a9-973d-f3bc6c7da942/Fake-Imagined-AJ-Hamstring-MRI.png

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 04:20 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1794134&postcount=227

MODS, please merge.

ziggy29
10-05-2011, 04:36 PM
Never get tired of seeing AJ pounding that punk Finnegan, though.

EllisUnit
10-05-2011, 05:24 PM
You can merge just wanted it to be a headline for a sec :)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7063411/houston-texans-coach-gary-kubiak-says-andre-johnson-procedure-went-well

HOUSTON -- Texans All-Pro receiver Andre Johnson will miss Sunday's game at home against the Oakland Raiders and an unspecified amount of time after a minor procedure to repair a right hamstring injury.



We're not putting any timeline on anything right now. We just know everything went well. The doctor feels good about it, Andre feels good about it.


-- Texans coach Gary Kubiak

Coach Gary Kubiak said the Texans (3-1) would be "missing a heck of a player" against the Raiders, but would not put a timetable on Johnson's return after Tuesday's procedure.

"All the information we're getting moving forward is very positive," Kubiak said Wednesday. "We're not putting any timeline on anything right now. We just know everything went well. The doctor feels good about it, Andre feels good about it."

KRIV-TV in Houston reported Tuesday that Johnson is expected to miss three weeks.

Johnson went down in the second quarter of Sunday's 17-10 win over Pittsburgh. He rejoined his team on the sideline in the fourth quarter, without crutches.

"We're going to miss him for a period of time," Kubiak said. "We're going to have to have some guys step up and play well."

The 6-foot-3, 226-pound Johnson missed three games last year with a sprained right ankle, including a 31-24 win over the Raiders (2-2). The five-time Pro Bowl selection sat out seven games in 2007 with a left knee injury that required offseason surgery and the Texans went 2-5 without him.

Kubiak said he believes his team is better equipped to handle Johnson's injury this time. Jacoby Jones will move into Johnson's position, and Kevin Walter and free-agent pickup Bryant Johnson move up the depth chart.


The Texans also can turn to Arian Foster, the NFL's leading rusher last season. Foster took over the offense after Johnson was hurt on Sunday, carrying 30 times for 155 yards and the game-winning touchdown against the Steelers in the final quarter.

Johnson's absence also should create more opportunities for tight end Owen Daniels, who caught two passes in the fourth quarter against Pittsburgh, and fullback James Casey, who had five catches for 126 yards and a touchdown in a 40-33 loss to New Orleans the previous week.

"We're probably going to get played a little differently," Kubiak said. "When Andre's on your team, everybody tries to take him away. Like I said, we can't replace Andre. We've got to, as a group, try to replace all the production that he adds on the field. That means everybody's got to pick it up, and we'll have a chance to prove it."

Houston also may be without running backs Ben Tate (groin) and Derrick Ward (sprained right ankle) against the Raiders. Tate and Ward sat out practice Wednesday, but Kubiak was hopeful that Tate would be ready to play Sunday.

ziggy29
10-05-2011, 05:35 PM
The good news is that the Texans have more than just a passing game now. With Foster and a suddenly outstanding run-blocking O-line and a competent and hungry defense that delivered in the fourth quarter last Sunday, this is no longer a team that AJ needs to carry on his back. Sure, it hurts to lose him, but they aren't the same bad team without him as they used to be.

And if JJ can step up and OD gets his touches we can still beat the Raiders.

SAMURAITEXAN
10-05-2011, 05:37 PM
Doc, I have a question. Would you explain us the difference in timetable with procedure and without procedure?

EllisUnit
10-05-2011, 05:43 PM
The good news is that the Texans have more than just a passing game now. With Foster and a suddenly outstanding run-blocking O-line and a competent and hungry defense that delivered in the fourth quarter last Sunday, this is no longer a team that AJ needs to carry on his back. Sure, it hurts to lose him, but they aren't the same bad team without him as they used to be.

And if JJ can step up and OD gets his touches we can still beat the Raiders.

i think the raiders will be so concerned with stopping Arian Foster that matt schaub will have a good day

prostock101
10-05-2011, 05:50 PM
Has Ward even played since he banged his noggin in the preseason? And how long is this sprained ankle thing gonna go on?

I'd feel better goin' into the Raiders game with 3 backs active as they seem to be made of glass this season. Not knockin' them, just noting all outside of Obiwan have been knicked up this year.....

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 06:03 PM
Doc, I have a question. Would you explain us the difference in timetable with procedure and without procedure?

If you read the posts on the last few pages of the other AJ Thread, you will see how I feel about this type of therapy.

In summary, this is a predictive HEALING algorithm that I have devised based of the available medical literature:

HEALING WITH PRP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>YES

HEALING WITHOUT PRP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>YES

RETURN TO PLAY TOO SOON>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NO

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 06:16 PM
You can merge just wanted it to be a headline for a sec :)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7063411/houston-texans-coach-gary-kubiak-says-andre-johnson-procedure-went-well



The title of the article is somewhat humorous.......Andre Johnson procedure 'went well'

Does this mean that his leg didn't fall off during the injections.........or that he didn't die from a massive anaphylactic shock reaction from the injections........or the that the injecting physician accidentally stuck himself but that there was luckily another physician present that was able to complete the procedure without sticking himself.......????

Results obviously could not be observed during or immediately following the injection. But, of course, the Andre Johnson procedure 'went well':)

Playoffs
10-05-2011, 06:25 PM
Doctor's would not put a timetable on AJ's return.

SAMURAITEXAN
10-05-2011, 06:26 PM
If you read the posts on the last few pages of the other AJ Thread, you will see how I feel about this type of therapy.

In summary, this is a predictive HEALING algorithm that I have devised based of the available medical literature:

HEALING WITH PRP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>YES

HEALING WITHOUT PRP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>YES

RETURN TO PLAY TOO SOON>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NO

Thank you for your help Doc. My bad, I did not realize there was other AJ thread lol.

Go Texans!!!

thunderkyss
10-05-2011, 06:35 PM
i think the raiders will be so concerned with stopping Arian Foster that matt schaub will have a good day

I don't think the Raiders are going to be able to stop anything. They have not been able to stop anything all year. The Raiders beat the Jets.... so what. They squeaked by Denver.....

What do we have to be scared of again?

Marcus
10-05-2011, 06:39 PM
The title of the article is somewhat humorous.......Andre Johnson procedure 'went well'

Does this mean that his leg didn't fall off during the injections.........or that he didn't die from a massive anaphylactic shock reaction from the injections........or the that the injecting physician accidentally stuck himself but that there was luckily another physician present that was able to complete the procedure without sticking himself.......????

Results obviously could not be observed during or immediately following the injection. But, of course, the Andre Johnson procedure 'went well':)

:lol: Watch it doc, or you might end up as cynical as me around here.

I still don't expect AJ back until after the bye week. This "procedure" doesn't change any of that.

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2011, 06:51 PM
Thank you for your help Doc. My bad, I did not realize there was other AJ thread lol.

Go Texans!!!

You welcome.

MODS please merge with the other AJ thread.

Texan_Bill
10-05-2011, 07:15 PM
If you read the posts on the last few pages of the other AJ Thread, you will see how I feel about this type of therapy.

In summary, this is a predictive HEALING algorithm that I have devised based of the available medical literature:

HEALING WITH PRP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>YES

HEALING WITHOUT PRP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>YES

RETURN TO PLAY TOO SOON>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NO

Funny you mention this. On 1560 the Game they do a weekly segment with a doctor from Richmond Bone and Joint. He basically said what you demonstrated in algorith. He said, while there 'can' be a slight time change based on the PRP, it would be minimum at best.

Texans_Chick
10-05-2011, 10:09 PM
Gah.

Correction.

Andre Johnson did have a surgical procedure on the distal tendon of his hamstring according to a trusted source I have. More information. Not confirmed by Texans or agent. Heard independently that three weeks was the expected recovery time.

Hoping to get more details.

http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2011/10/correction-andre-johnsons-did-have-a-surgical-procedure/

silvrhand
10-05-2011, 10:29 PM
Gah.

Correction.

Andre Johnson did have a surgical procedure on the distal tendon of his hamstring according to a trusted source I have. More information. Not confirmed by Texans or agent. Heard independently that three weeks was the expected recovery time.

Hoping to get more details.

http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2011/10/correction-andre-johnsons-did-have-a-surgical-procedure/

Has anyone seen him since Sunday in public, if he did has the surgery I would suspect he's on crutches.

GP
10-05-2011, 10:34 PM
http://content.screencast.com/users/TC2002/folders/Jing/media/98556466-cf59-44a9-973d-f3bc6c7da942/Fake-Imagined-AJ-Hamstring-MRI.png

Is it just me, or can we see the reflection of someone flipping us the BIRD in that Foster MRI image????

Look up, and to your right of the AJ/Finnegan image. You can somewhat see the darkened outline of a hand, and by gosh it looks like there's a hidden gem there telling us what he thinks of the haters!

I think it's possible. It looks like it's the film clipped to one of those lightboxes up on a wall and someone snaps a photo of it...the glass reflects a bit of the person's hand. Hmmm......

GP
10-05-2011, 10:52 PM
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/gpshafer_1976/anti_awesomeness.jpg

Texans_Chick
10-05-2011, 10:59 PM
I think it's possible. It looks like it's the film clipped to one of those lightboxes up on a wall and someone snaps a photo of it...the glass reflects a bit of the person's hand. Hmmm......

I can tell you precisely what that is--my garbage photoshop skillz. Clone tool, I believe. I was tring to darken over a previous photoshop of something else.