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GP
10-06-2011, 12:05 AM
I can tell you precisely what that is--my garbage photoshop skillz. Clone tool, I believe. I was tring to darken over a previous photoshop of something else.

Is that what you have been PAID to say??? Hmmmmm??????

Lies. All of it. I have found the truth! It's THERE!

:evil:

P.S. I spent damn near 20 minutes on that Photoshop job, so next time please tell us that you suck at using the clone tool. My wife did not share my enthusiasm a few seconds ago...and I sure as heck am not telling her the newest intel. :nolisten:

Texan_Bill
10-06-2011, 12:14 AM
I can tell you precisely what that is--my garbage photoshop skillz. Clone tool, I believe. I was tring to darken over a previous photoshop of something else.

While I normally give a crap about Texans Talk(ish), I haven't seen the latest on your hubby and the doctor's defense in the Michael Jackson case.... THAT case is WAY more intriguing to me!!!

Texans_Chick
10-06-2011, 12:32 AM
While I normally give a crap about Texans Talk(ish), I haven't seen the latest on your hubby and the doctor's defense in the Michael Jackson case.... THAT case is WAY more intriguing to me!!!

Pursuant to a gag order issued 9/30, I will say "no comment."

sbalderrama
10-06-2011, 02:02 AM
I can tell you precisely what that is--my garbage photoshop skillz. Clone tool, I believe. I was tring to darken over a previous photoshop of something else.

I'm going with GP's hypothesis on this one. It's much more entertaining.

disaacks3
10-06-2011, 11:07 AM
Well TC, it looks like you're being used as a source for PFT now:

Andre Johnson expected to miss three games
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on October 5, 2011, 11:28 AM EDT
Getty ImagesTexans coach Gary Kubiak was rather vague when talking about Andre Johnson’s hamstring injury on Tuesday, but a clearer picture of Johnson’s recovery timeline is starting to emerge.

John McClain of the Houston Chronicle reports that Johnson should be back no later than October 30, which means he’d miss games against the Raiders, Ravens, and Titans. John Clayton of ESPN reported a similar timeline.

It’s possible Johnson could return for the Titans, but McClain believes the Texans will play it safe to make sure Johnson is fully recovered. McClain also reports that Johnson underwent a “surgical procedure” to prevent scar tissue from forming around a slight tear in his right hamstring.

Stephanie Stradley, who writes a blog for the Chronicle, writes that Johnson received Platelet-Rich Plasma (PRP) Therapy.

We saw with Arian Foster that applying exact timelines to a return from a hamstring injury can be tricky. However long it takes Johnson to return, the Texans must be relieved he’ll be back well before the team’s playoff push.

Now they just need to figure out how to score without Johnson in the lineup. Link (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/05/andre-johnson-expected-to-miss-three-games/related/)

Andre Johnson expected to miss three games
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on October 5, 2011, 11:28 AM EDT
Getty ImagesTexans coach Gary Kubiak was rather vague when talking about Andre Johnson’s hamstring injury on Tuesday, but a clearer picture of Johnson’s recovery timeline is starting to emerge.

John McClain of the Houston Chronicle reports that Johnson should be back no later than October 30, which means he’d miss games against the Raiders, Ravens, and Titans. John Clayton of ESPN reported a similar timeline.

It’s possible Johnson could return for the Titans, but McClain believes the Texans will play it safe to make sure Johnson is fully recovered. McClain also reports that Johnson underwent a “surgical procedure” to prevent scar tissue from forming around a slight tear in his right hamstring.

Stephanie Stradley, who writes a blog for the Chronicle, writes that Johnson received Platelet-Rich Plasma (PRP) Therapy.

We saw with Arian Foster that applying exact timelines to a return from a hamstring injury can be tricky. However long it takes Johnson to return, the Texans must be relieved he’ll be back well before the team’s playoff push.

Now they just need to figure out how to score without Johnson in the lineup.


Permalink 25 Comments Latest Stories in: Houston Texans, Rumor Mill, Top Stories
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Andre Johnson did undergo surgery
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on October 6, 2011, 10:51 AM EDT
APA report surfaced from Stephanie Stradley of the Houston Chronicle’s website on Wednesday that Texans receiver Andre Johnson underwent Platelet-Rich Plasma therapy earlier this week.

The Texans called it a “procedure” which seemed odd at the time, but Stradley has now issued a correction. Johnson, in fact, did undergo surgery on distal tendon of his hamstring.

The anticipated recovery time for Johnson remains three weeks. It’s hard to imagine you could return from any surgery on the hamstring faster than that, but the reality is that no one in the media knows much of anything when it comes to recovery timelines.

Texan_Bill
10-06-2011, 11:20 AM
Pursuant to a gag order issued 9/30, I will say "no comment."

Gotcha! ;) BTW, you were repped for the "Fake AJ MRI skin"!

GP
10-07-2011, 03:35 PM
UPDATE: AJ says he will miss 2 weeks. Cleaned up scarring from previous injuries/trauma.

In short: There is no major injury. He felt pain, was scared, went down to try and limit the damage...and he's practically ready to go but being restricted just to make sure.

Or at least that's the cover story....

Link to espn.go.com story here. (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7071929/andre-johnson-houston-texans-expects-miss-2-weeks)

HOUSTON -- Texans star receiver Andre Johnson expects to be out a couple of weeks after a minor procedure to repair a right hamstring injury.

Johnson said he is scheduled to get the stitches from two incisions removed early next week.

"I wish I could go out there and try to run around today to see how it feels," he said Friday. "But I have to just wait until I get the stitches out and then I'll go all out."

The five-time Pro Bowl selection says he has felt great since Tuesday's procedure and is confident he will be back soon. He described himself as a fast healer.

"I haven't felt any pain with any of the exercises I've been doing ... so I'm pretty pumped," he said. "I've been bending my leg and everything. The only thing that really bothers me a little bit is where I have the stitches. So I think once I can get those out and the cuts close up I'll be fine."

The Texans (3-1) host Oakland (2-2) on Sunday and then play at Baltimore on Oct. 16.

Johnson was injured Sunday in a win over the Pittsburgh Steelers. He recounted his thoughts when he was hurt after catching a pass in the second quarter without being touched.

"I was scared," he said. "I really couldn't explain what it was, I just felt pain. You see I was grabbing my leg when I was on the ground."

Johnson isn't walking with any sort of a limp, a fact that has caused several coaches to comment on the "pep in his step" this week. He said an old injury led to a "pretty big lump" of scar tissue that had been causing pain behind his knee off and on for some time.

"I had a lot of scarring around my tendon and that was the irritation that everything was coming from, so they had to go in and clean it up," he said.

Johnson has 25 catches for 352 yards this season to lead the team. Jacoby Jones will fill in for Johnson this week and the Texans can also go to tight end Owen Daniels, who has 14 receptions for 182 yards and three scores.

"We're being challenged right now from a numbers standpoint as a football team," coach Gary Kubiak said. "That's what this league is about -- trying to find a way each week to regroup and put your best group on the field to win another game. We've got to pass the test."

Johnson hates sitting out when the Texans are playing so well. But he believes the team is better equipped to deal with his absence than in the past when he was injured.

"The whole attitude of the team is totally different than it used to be," he said. "Of course you don't want to lose anybody, but at the same time we know what's at stake for the team. Guys are going to go out and get the job done."

disaacks3
10-07-2011, 03:50 PM
UPDATE: AJ says he will miss 2 weeks. Cleaned up scarring from previous injuries/trauma.

In short: There is no major injury. He felt pain, was scared, went down to try and limit the damage...and he's practically ready to go but being restricted just to make sure.

Or at least that's the cover story....

Link to espn.go.com story here. (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7071929/andre-johnson-houston-texans-expects-miss-2-weeks)

God I hope that story is accurate. I'd love him to miss only two games.

Texans_Chick
10-07-2011, 04:08 PM
Texans entire quote sheet:

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Quotes-Friday-practice/fc9694aa-f2ac-4469-951f-97560a03077d (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Quotes-Friday-practice/fc9694aa-f2ac-4469-951f-97560a03077d)

We tend to get more BS from staff than from players, especially AJ

WR Andre Johnson
(on how heís feeling) ďIím feeling pretty good. Walking around since the little minor procedure was done. Iíve been walking ever since it was done. Iím feeling pretty good. I have to wait a few days to just get the stitches out and then once I get the stitches out, I can go all out and see where Iím at.Ē



(on if he was nervous about the procedure) ďWhen you have something like that done, you definitely worry about how fast itís going to heal, but the way Iím feeling right now and just the way the rehab is going, as far as my rehab, I havenít felt any pain with any of the exercises Iíve been doing. Iíve been walking around normal. Actually, Iím pretty pumped. I wish I could go out there and try to run around today to see how it feels, but I have to just wait to get the stitches out and then weíll go all out once the stitches come out.Ē



(on when heíll be able to play again) ďIf I had to pick a date, I would give it a couple weeks. You really canít put a timeframe on it. Just my gut feeling right now, I would give it a couple weeks.Ē



(on if he feels like heís a fast healer) ďYeah, this is probably the, out of any procedure Iíve ever had done, this is the probably the best Iíve felt after Iíve had one done. Iím pretty confident about this one. Like I said, Iím pretty pumped. Just canít wait to get these stitches out, so I can get to rolling.Ē



(on how many stitches he has) ďThey had to make two incisions and Iím not sure how many stitches are back there, but I have two cuts.Ē



(on the process to prevent scar tissue and speed up the healing) ďThis just went in. I had a lot of scarring around my tendon. Thatís what the irritation and everything was coming from, so they had to go in and clean it out, clean it up. They went in, cleaned it up and that was pretty much it.Ē



(on if he feels good about his rehab) ďI do. Like I said, the way I feel, I havenít been feeling any pain doing the rehab. Iíve been on the bike. With all those things, I havenít felt any pain. Iíve been walking around. Iíve been bending my leg and everything. I havenít felt any pain, any soreness or anything. The only thing that really bothers me a little bit is where I have the stitches. I think once I can get those out and the cuts close up, then Iíll be fine. I think thatís why Iím so pumped about it. I feel very comfortable.Ē



(on what he thought when he went down in the game) ďI really didnít know. I was scared. I really couldnít explain what it was. I just felt pain. You could see I was grabbing my leg when I was laying on the ground. We went and got the MRI and got the problem fixed, so I wonít have to deal with it again.Ē



(on if heís surprised by how good he feels now) ďYeah, he told me Iíd feel a lot better. At first when he told me, Iím like ĎNah, I donít think itíll feel that way after the procedure,í but he didnít lie to me. I feel real good. Like I said, Iím walking around. Even when some of the coaches see me, they see like a pep in my step. They wish I could be out there, but itís a process we have to go through and Iím going to keep doing what I need to do to be ready as fast as possible.Ē



(on how hard it is for him to have to miss games) ďItís hard, especially the way weíre playing as a team. When I came in the locker room after I got injured, that was the first thing I thought about. To have something like this happen, itís a bad feeling, but at the same time, itís a part of the game and I think itíll make us stronger as a football team and I think it makes me much better as a player. I get to sit back and watch this week. Who knows what could happen next week after the stitches are removed and we just keep moving forward.Ē



(on what caused the scar tissue) ďI think it was just from an old injury. Iíve had problems with feeling pain behind my knee before. After talking to the doctorís assistant, he asked me did I ever have an old injury before and he was telling me, thatís what he thinks the scarring was coming from, came from an old injury because it had actually built up. It was a pretty big lump of it.Ē



(on if there will be significant benefits to the procedure beyond repairing the leg) ďYeah, it bothered me a little bit during training camp. Then it went away. Then it came back again and I went down in the game against Pittsburgh. Like I said, Iím just glad that itís over with, itís fixed and I can move on.Ē



(on if this is the best the Texans have been prepared to play without him) ďI just think that our team as a whole, the whole attitude of the team is totally different than it used to be. Of course, you donít want to lose anybody, but at the same time, we know whatís at stake for our team. Guys are going to go out and get the job done. Itíll be hard watching on the sidelines Sunday, but like I said, Iím going to do everything I can to hurry up and get back out on the field.Ē



(on if he will be back two weeks from now) ďI donít know. That just depends on how I feel once the stitches come out.Ē



(on what the doctor told him) ďWell, he told me once the stitches come out, I can just go for it. I think Iím a fast healer.Ē



(on when the stitches will come out) ďTheyíre going to check on them in like five days, so weíll see from there.Ē



(on if he canít run until the stitches are out) ďNo, I can turn up my treatment a little bit more starting Monday, so Iíll be going a little bit harder Monday. Weíll see what they have for me when I get in on Monday.Ē

michaelm
10-07-2011, 05:12 PM
$5 says AJ plays next week vs Baltimore.

TheMatrix31
10-07-2011, 05:23 PM
Yeah, with any luck he's just held out one game and kicks ass in practice next game enough to go into Baltimore. Just having him in the game is critical. Would love to have him line up but not even thrown to that much.

thunderkyss
10-07-2011, 05:24 PM
So if it never was a hamstring, then we're good right? When he comes back he'll be back 100%

michaelm
10-07-2011, 05:33 PM
So if it never was a hamstring, then we're good right? When he comes back he'll be back 100%

Definitely sounds that way to me. I'm busy trying to trade for him in my leagues before the other owners figure it out.

EllisUnit
10-07-2011, 08:04 PM
im glad to hear it from AJ, BUT he said he went down to be cautious cause he felt a little pain, TO ME he looked like he was in a lot of pain. I know i didnt imagine that, so i am still a bit confused, but i will believe AJ if he says it.

ObsiWan
10-07-2011, 08:21 PM
Yeah, with any luck he's just held out one game and kicks ass in practice next game enough to go into Baltimore. Just having him in the game is critical. Would love to have him line up but not even thrown to that much.

I don't get this thinking. If he can't go full speed, it won't take the Ravens - especially with the defensive wisdom of Ed Reed and Ray Lewis watching to see how he performes - to note that AJ isn't the threat he would be if fully healed. The "fear factor" you're hoping AJ will bring will probably last the first 2 or 3 offensive series. By then, they'll have figured out AJ isn't on his "A-game" or that we're not coming his way too often.

Plus I'd rather have him as close to fully healed as possible. If that takes an extra week or two, so be it.

Finally, it's time for the rest of the offense to grow up and step up. I don't want to see them implode because one guy went down. They need to show that they can keep things rolling the right way until the big man returns. ...just like they did when Foster was out.

Texecutioner
10-07-2011, 09:12 PM
I don't get this thinking. If he can't go full speed, it won't take the Ravens - especially with the defensive wisdom of Ed Reed and Ray Lewis watching to see how he performes - to note that AJ isn't the threat he would be if fully healed. The "fear factor" you're hoping AJ will bring will probably last the first 2 or 3 offensive series. By then, they'll have figured out AJ isn't on his "A-game" or that we're not coming his way too often.

Plus I'd rather have him as close to fully healed as possible. If that takes an extra week or two, so be it.

Finally, it's time for the rest of the offense to grow up and step up. I don't want to see them implode because one guy went down. They need to show that they can keep things rolling the right way until the big man returns. ...just like they did when Foster was out.


Agreed. I hate hamstring injuries because they can linger and linger and linger if not properly healed right. Keep him out until he is 110%. Losing one guy shouldn't stop this offense when you've got Foster at RB. The worst thing the Texans could do is to bring him back to early and then he's hurt off and on the rest of the season or only at like 80% the rest of the way. Plus, if we make the playoffs, I want a fully healthy AJ for that run.

TheMatrix31
10-07-2011, 09:36 PM
Well yeah, but it's not just "one guy" down. It's the best receiver in the league and the best player in franchise history in his prime.

GP
10-08-2011, 12:23 AM
im glad to hear it from AJ, BUT he said he went down to be cautious cause he felt a little pain, TO ME he looked like he was in a lot of pain. I know i didnt imagine that, so i am still a bit confused, but i will believe AJ if he says it.

Actually, if you based that on what I posted (my own "re-cap" of what AJ said) then I must say that I might have mishandled what he said.

I said he went down to limit damage, but I think I was inferring (picking up on what he was trying to say) but that's not really a good, solid explanation by me. My bad. I take ownership of that, it was a slip-up on my end in the process of editorializing his comments.

He felt pain, he went down, and he had no idea what had happened. Come to find out, it was scarring and likely the associated "pain" issues with the previous injury that had caused the scarring in the first place.

Like I said, either this is what happened...or AJ, the docs, and the Texans are putting on one helluva' scam on everyone. I prefer to believe it is the latter and we'll see him either in the Ravens game (a week earlier than forecasted) or in the 2nd week like he reported.

Joe Texan
10-08-2011, 12:40 AM
Dude I see a bunch of owe woes me Andre is out he needs to hurry back we are through if he doesnt crybaby crap. Andre is hurt and if it is a hammy and he needs to rest for about 5 weeks so he can be full strenghth come the last part of the season. I give us a 100% ability to beat the Raiders and the Ravens in Ravens nest. This team is strong and we might be one less great player, but we need to step up and take the reins and score some points. I gurantee every last one of you sad sacs that we will not fold up like the colts have because of one player. Hello we got other recievers and they have had pretty good luck also so give a team a chance.

CloakNNNdagger
10-14-2011, 01:43 AM
Response to a post from another Thread:

FWIW, Kenneth First reported on 610 this morning that AJ's injured hamstring was clipped off. And, he contended that if this were the Super Bowl, he'd be playing on Sunday, but he feels they'll hold him out until the Tennessee game.

For those who may be interested in looking into the facts of this subject in somewhat greater depth:

As it turn out, AJ had a partial tear of one of the distal hamstring tendons.....the semitendinosus tendon. It is one of the small hamstring muscles. Evidently, because of "debilitating" pain or other signs or symptoms, AJ's surgery was performed to complete the tear, essentially converting it to a complete rupture.........instantly relieving the pain.

It is commonly said that this small hamstring needs not to be repaired, since the bigger hamstring muscles will compensate for it loss. The use of this tendon for ACL reconstruction is commonly cited as proof that the lack of this tendon/muscle leaves no debility. The truth is that many times only portions of the tendon are harvested rather than the entire tendon. Even with this approach, studies have documented that this leads to a loss of knee flexor strength and impaired dynamic stability. Even though it has been shown that the medial hamstring tendons regenerate in most cases after harvesting, the regenerated neotendon tends to have impaired biomechanical properties compared with the original semitendinosus tendon. In actuality, regeneration of the semitendinosus tendon has never been shown to occur after a traumatic rupture.

Although I believe that Dr. First mentioned that the release of this tendon following partial tear has not been described as such before, there is exactly such a paper published in 2005 authored by a UK orthopedic surgeon entitled Partial rupture of the distal semitendinosus tendon treated by tenotomy [release]—A previously undescribed entity. This was performed only after conservative means failed.

AJ's surgery was meant to shorten the healing/return to play time, which would have been required for conservative nonsurgical approach or surgical repair approach, neither which would have likely been less than 2 - 3 months at best. So a sort of gamble was taken. But will this roll of the dice work out the way it has been planned? Or will it result in a short term fix with long term compromise of "elite" hamstring strength/performance (not unlike the clipping/completing of Favre's biceps tear so he could return to the field of play quickly, with the pain relieved, albeit significantly compromised). What's interesting is that the indications for repair of the semitendinosus tendon following complete rupture is pain, weakness, stiffness and instability of the knee joint, especially in athletes. We all will hope that AJ does not fall into this pattern.:texflag:

Texn4life
10-14-2011, 01:51 AM
Response to a post from another Thread:



For those who may be interested in looking into the facts of this subject in somewhat greater depth:

As it turn out, AJ had a partial tear of one of the distal hamstring tendons.....the semitendinosus tendon. It is one of the small hamstring muscles. Evidently, because of "debilitating" pain or other signs or symptoms, AJ's surgery was performed to complete the tear, essentially converting it to a complete rupture.........instantly relieving the pain.

It is commonly said that this small hamstring needs not to be repaired, since the bigger hamstring muscles will compensate for it loss. The use of this tendon for ACL reconstruction is commonly cited as proof that the lack of this tendon/muscle leaves no debility. The truth is that many times only portions of the tendon are harvested rather than the entire tendon. Even with this approach, studies have documented that this leads to a loss of knee flexor strength and impaired dynamic stability. Even though it has been shown that the medial hamstring tendons regenerate in most cases after harvesting, the regenerated neotendon tends to have impaired biomechanical properties compared with the original semitendinosis tendon. In actuality, regeneration of the semitendinosis tendon has never been shown to occur after a traumatic rupture.

Although I believe that Dr. First mentioned that the release of this tendon following partial tear has not been described as such before, there is exactly such a paper published in 2005 authored by a UK orthopedic surgeon entitled Partial rupture of the distal semitendinosus tendon treated by tenotomy [release]óA previously undescribed entity. This was performed only after conservative means failed.

AJ's surgery was meant to shorten the healing/return to play time, which would have been required for conservative nonsurgical approach or surgical repair approach, neither which would have likely been less than 2 months and 3 months respectively at best. So a sort of gamble was taken. But will this roll of the dice work out the way it has been planned? Or will it result in a short term fix with long term compromise of "elite" hamstring strength/performance (not unlike the clipping/completing of Favre's biceps tear so he could return to the field of play quickly, with the pain relieved, albeit significantly compromised). What's interesting is that the indications for repair of the semitendinosus tendon following complete rupture is pain, weakness, stiffness and instability of the knee joint, especially in athletes. We all will hope that AJ does not fall into this pattern.:texflag:


I think I blanked out during the 2nd paragraph. Good stuff though!

ObsiWan
10-14-2011, 07:30 PM
Response to a post from another Thread:



For those who may be interested in looking into the facts of this subject in somewhat greater depth:

As it turn out, AJ had a partial tear of one of the distal hamstring tendons.....the semitendinosus tendon. It is one of the small hamstring muscles. Evidently, because of "debilitating" pain or other signs or symptoms, AJ's surgery was performed to complete the tear, essentially converting it to a complete rupture.........instantly relieving the pain.

It is commonly said that this small hamstring needs not to be repaired, since the bigger hamstring muscles will compensate for it loss. The use of this tendon for ACL reconstruction is commonly cited as proof that the lack of this tendon/muscle leaves no debility. The truth is that many times only portions of the tendon are harvested rather than the entire tendon. Even with this approach, studies have documented that this leads to a loss of knee flexor strength and impaired dynamic stability. Even though it has been shown that the medial hamstring tendons regenerate in most cases after harvesting, the regenerated neotendon tends to have impaired biomechanical properties compared with the original semitendinosus tendon. In actuality, regeneration of the semitendinosus tendon has never been shown to occur after a traumatic rupture.

Although I believe that Dr. First mentioned that the release of this tendon following partial tear has not been described as such before, there is exactly such a paper published in 2005 authored by a UK orthopedic surgeon entitled Partial rupture of the distal semitendinosus tendon treated by tenotomy [release]óA previously undescribed entity. This was performed only after conservative means failed.

AJ's surgery was meant to shorten the healing/return to play time, which would have been required for conservative nonsurgical approach or surgical repair approach, neither which would have likely been less than 2 - 3 months at best. So a sort of gamble was taken. But will this roll of the dice work out the way it has been planned? Or will it result in a short term fix with long term compromise of "elite" hamstring strength/performance (not unlike the clipping/completing of Favre's biceps tear so he could return to the field of play quickly, with the pain relieved, albeit significantly compromised). What's interesting is that the indications for repair of the semitendinosus tendon following complete rupture is pain, weakness, stiffness and instability of the knee joint, especially in athletes. We all will hope that AJ does not fall into this pattern.:texflag:

That sounds like a really bad thing. So if the gamble doesn't pay off are we looking at an AJ that comes back at 75-80% of his former self and doesn't really ever return to form??
:mcnugget:

CloakNNNdagger
10-14-2011, 07:53 PM
That sounds like a really bad thing. So if the gamble doesn't pay off are we looking at an AJ that comes back at 75-80% of his former self and doesn't really ever return to form??
:mcnugget:

I hope not. But it is certainly possible that he returns somewhat "compromised" (I'm not willing to assign an exact %) on both counts.....if the former or latter scenario manifests, it is possible that they plan for this to be only a temporary fix to get him back on the field quickly this season....possibly entertaining going back and reattaching the tendon in the offseason when he is allowed the significant recovery time necessary for surgical recovery. Only time will tell.

edo783
10-15-2011, 09:48 PM
....if the former or latter scenario manifests, it is possible that they plan for this to be only a temporary fix to get him back on the field quickly this season....possibly entertaining going back and reattaching the tendon in the offseason when he is allowed the significant recovery time necessary for surgical recovery. Only time will tell.

I suspect that is the route they are taking.

badboy
10-15-2011, 10:13 PM
I hope not. But it is certainly possible that he returns somewhat "compromised" (I'm not willing to assign an exact %) on both counts.....if the former or latter scenario manifests, it is possible that they plan for this to be only a temporary fix to get him back on the field quickly this season....possibly entertaining going back and reattaching the tendon in the offseason when he is allowed the significant recovery time necessary for surgical recovery. Only time will tell.I could see AJ thinking this is best chance he has had to go deep into playoffs and agreeing to a quick fix to get him back on field. "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." What happens if Tuesday comes and you can't play er pay?

False Start
10-18-2011, 09:44 AM
They just said on 790 AJ said he wont be back for the Titans game and could be out 6 weeks....:pissed: :(

gwallaia
10-18-2011, 09:49 AM
Oh well, there's always next year.

TheMatrix31
10-18-2011, 09:50 AM
they just said on 790 aj said he wont be back for the titans game and could be out 6 weeks....:pissed: :(

****. Just.....****.

False Start
10-18-2011, 09:52 AM
Oh well, there's always next year.

Yep, that seems to be the Houston Sports scene anthem.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/ImageShacksharephotospicturesfreeimagehostingfreev ideohostingimagehostingvideohostingphotoimagehosti ngsitevideohostingsite-2.gif

Thorn
10-18-2011, 09:52 AM
They just said on 790 AJ said he wont be back for the Titans game and could be out 6 weeks....:pissed: :(

This makes me fear the worst. Not that the Texans won't win a lot of games without AJ, but now injuries to AJ and Mario plus strike shortened pre-season gives Uncle Bop a reason to bring his favorite boy back next season.

silentassassin
10-18-2011, 09:53 AM
They just said on 790 AJ said he wont be back for the Titans game and could be out 6 weeks....:pissed: :(

:shocked

Well, damn.

Kthx
10-18-2011, 09:54 AM
Did he reinjure doing practice?

TdotTexas2Step
10-18-2011, 09:54 AM
Is this real life?

TheMatrix31
10-18-2011, 09:55 AM
Where's the ****ing luck. That's what I wanna know.

Dutchrudder
10-18-2011, 09:55 AM
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/GIFs/344s2vs.gif

Thorn
10-18-2011, 09:56 AM
Where's the ****ing luck. That's what I wanna know.

The luck being a soft schedule and crappy division is still winnable with all these injuries. Or should be, at least.

False Start
10-18-2011, 09:56 AM
I was actually having a pretty damn good morning, now its went to shit...I feel like my dog died. :gun: :crying:

gwallaia
10-18-2011, 09:56 AM
Turn out the lights, the party's over.

IDEXAN
10-18-2011, 09:57 AM
They just said on 790 AJ said he wont be back for the Titans game and could be out 6 weeks....:pissed: :(
Very significant news. Not worthy of a seperate thread ?

silentassassin
10-18-2011, 10:01 AM
Still haven't found any confirmation. Did they say where they got it from on the radio?

TheMatrix31
10-18-2011, 10:01 AM
The luck being a soft schedule and crappy division is still winnable with all these injuries. Or should be, at least.

Should be but let's see what happens. This team will not win if the opposing defenses key in on Arian and we can't get the run game going.

Thorn
10-18-2011, 10:08 AM
Should be but let's see what happens. This team will not win if the opposing defenses key in on Arian and we can't get the run game going.

Then keep the defense honest with passing. If the Texans are a good team, then they should be able to do that.

False Start
10-18-2011, 10:08 AM
Still haven't found any confirmation. Did they say where they got it from on the radio?

I just heard LZ say it on The Big Show. Heres a Tweet from TC. (http://twitter.com/#!/StephStradley/status/126293169724854273)

HJam72
10-18-2011, 10:10 AM
I need beer.

False Start
10-18-2011, 10:14 AM
Now, on 610 they are saying "will he play on Sunday?" These bastids need to get their stories straight! :bat:

ChampionTexan
10-18-2011, 10:15 AM
Still haven't found any confirmation. Did they say where they got it from on the radio?

Supposedly AJ said it on Lopez and Vandermeer's show.

HJam72
10-18-2011, 10:15 AM
Can I stay drunk until he gets back on the field?

silentassassin
10-18-2011, 10:16 AM
Supposedly AJ said it on Lopez and Vandermeer's show.

It's time to panic.:gun:

srrono
10-18-2011, 10:16 AM
http://blogs.webmd.com/eye-on-vision/uploaded_images/panic-717308.jpg

VTexan
10-18-2011, 10:18 AM
They just said on 790 AJ said he wont be back for the Titans game and could be out 6 weeks....:pissed: :(

http://i.imgur.com/S5CDy.gif

False Start
10-18-2011, 10:20 AM
I bet Innegan is happy to hear this news. :heh:

gwallaia
10-18-2011, 10:20 AM
Its like the Texans were on the cover of Madden this year.

steelbtexan
10-18-2011, 10:24 AM
This is what C-N-D was trying to tell us. Even if he makes it back this week he will not be 100%. It will probably be 6wks from the time he got hurt before he's even close to 100%. The season could be over before AJ gets back to 100%.

They should've made the trade for Lloyd.

GP
10-18-2011, 10:26 AM
It's OK, this whole team won't be back until the last 3 games or so anyways.

You know how it goes: The mad dash for the finish line, to save Gary's job every year.

Derrick Mason needs to make serious noise on the field now.

ThaShark316
10-18-2011, 10:41 AM
It's OK, this whole team won't be back until the last 3 games or so anyways.

You know how it goes: The mad dash for the finish line, to save Gary's job every year.

Derrick Mason needs to make serious noise on the field now.

Not sure how much of a college basketball fan you are, but when the UCLA Bruins had Steve Lavin as coach, they'd have these national championship expectations all the time. They'd come out looking OK, then conference play started and they'd start losing to weaker/lower tier teams.

THE SECOND Lavin's job was on the line and fans and alumni started putting pressure on him, he and the Bruins would go to a top 10 team's house and pull off an upset. Then before the NCAA Tourney, they'd draw a low seed and get to the sweet 16 some how.

It kept happening. He'd never get fired. Eventually, he got his walking papers because he barely won 10 games in his last season. They couldn't wait to can his ass.

Texans do this same thing. Eventually, the shit's going to wear thin. Same goes for those boys in San Diego.

srrono
10-18-2011, 10:53 AM
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2011/10/18/johnson-frustrated-he-cant-help-texans/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


heres the interview with aj on 610am pod

False Start
10-18-2011, 10:58 AM
OK, apparently 610 was as LZ said "fear tweeting" to make it sound worse than it is to generate listeners, the 6 weeks is retroactive. On top of that AJ said he doesn't believe it will even take that long.

srrono
10-18-2011, 11:07 AM
OK, apparently 610 was as LZ said "fear tweeting" to make it sound worse than it is to generate listeners, the 6 weeks is retroactive. On top of that AJ said he doesn't believe it will even take that long.

its really hard to tell with andre's speach pattern would be a great poker player, said up to 6 weeks but it has been 2weeks since his procedure.

silentassassin
10-18-2011, 11:09 AM
OK, apparently 610 was as LZ said "fear tweeting" to make it sound worse than it is to generate listeners, the 6 weeks is retroactive. On top of that AJ said he doesn't believe it will even take that long.

I still think 6 up from the initial 3 weeks is still significant.

Double Barrel
10-18-2011, 11:20 AM
Should be but let's see what happens. This team will not win if the opposing defenses key in on Arian and we can't get the run game going.

But...but...Kubiak is an offensive genius! One player cannot undermine the brilliant mind of Gary...right? :bubbles:

J_R
10-18-2011, 11:22 AM
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2011/10/18/johnson-frustrated-he-cant-help-texans/

http://houston.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.podtrac.com%2Fpts%2F redirect.mp3%2Fnyc.podcast.play.it%2Fmedia%2Fd0%2F d0%2Fd0%2FdZ%2Fd0%2Fd9%2Fd7%2FZ097_3.MP3&podcast_name=Andre+Johnson&podcast_artist=Vandermeer+and+Lopez&station_id=&audio_link=true&config_file=config.xml&dcid=CBS.HOUSTON


Hows it going?

Doing good.

How good? How much can you tell us about how you're feeling?

I'm progressing day by day. I'm getting better day by day. Yesterday was a little frustrating when I was doing my rehab because just seeing what the team is going through right now and I'm not being able to play. I want to be back on the field so bad. I got a little frustrated. Today makes two weeks since I had my procedure. Everybody is like you're doing so well because a lot of people who have regular hamstring pulls aren't doing what I'm doing right now so I'm headed in the right direction. I just wish it could heal faster than what it is.

What was that procedure like for you? What has it been like for you personally?

First time I ever had a hamstring problem period. It's a little different for me. I've never experienced it before so..Everyday going at it real hard. Going after rehab real hard. Like I said, it's a little frustrating because I want to be back on the field real bad.

When do you expect to be back on the field for practice purposes? Or when do you think? I know it's a feeling right now.

You really cant put a timetable on it. Whenever it feels back to normal. Right now, it's still weak. Not as strong as it used to be. I still cant run full speed yet. I am out on the field running. I've tried to run full speed but you know..I'm just taking it day by day.

A unique procedure. You had to ask what this will do long term.

Long term, I dont have to deal with it anymore. I think it stems from old injuries. I was having pain behind my knee. Even when I'm running now, I don't feel that pain anymore so thats a good thing. They say it could take up to six weeks at the most but I dont think it will take me that long.

When it happened, what was your first thought?

I knew it was my hamstring. A lot of people thought it was my ACL. Soon as it popped, I felt a pop and knew exactly what it was. It was a lot of pain, that's what made me go down. I could hear everybody in stands like "Oh my God" and everyone chanting "Andre" for me to get back up but I'm fine man. I'm just rehabbing everyday, trying to get back at it.

Vinny
10-18-2011, 11:30 AM
They say it could take up to six weeks at the most but I dont think it will take me that long.
Ive had the feeling the Texans were lowballing us

silentassassin
10-18-2011, 11:31 AM
Ive had the feeling the Texans were lowballing us

This also makes me think more and more that the Mason trade was a result of this rather than the poor showing against Oakland.

GP
10-18-2011, 11:34 AM
Ive had the feeling the Texans were lowballing us

Why did you come back here?

Your 49ers are treating you well this season. I know you like the relationships here, but outside of that...how do you even invest anything into discussing this team?

Did you develop a thick outer shell while away from here, so that now when you come back and we're in the midst of yet another "Typical Texans shenanigans season" it just bounces off you?

At least you have a secondary team (49ers) you can watch with enjoyment this year. I envy you.

GP
10-18-2011, 11:38 AM
This also makes me think more and more that the Mason trade was a result of this rather than the poor showing against Oakland.

I actually believe Kubiak wanted to throw Jacoby into deep water and make him swim. I think Kubiak, as did I, thought Jacoby could have a great game and help us win...boosting everyone's confidence while AJ is away.

When Jacoby went 1 catch out of something like 11 looks from Schaub, I think Kubiak rightfully decided a more reliable and gritty WR needed to be brought aboard the Right Track Express.

However.....perhaps it COULD have been the plan to wait until after the Raiders game to add a WR, so as to not make people panic by bringing in Mason the day after AJ's MRI. The Texans are savvy like that; they know how to use smoke and mirrors when it comes to player injuries.

Vinny
10-18-2011, 11:46 AM
Why did you come back here?

Your 49ers are treating you well this season. I know you like the relationships here, but outside of that...how do you even invest anything into discussing this team?

Did you develop a thick outer shell while away from here, so that now when you come back and we're in the midst of yet another "Typical Texans shenanigans season" it just bounces off you?

At least you have a secondary team (49ers) you can watch with enjoyment this year. I envy you.
well, I worked for the 49ers...it's not like they are my favorite team. I never "left" for the 49ers. They are doing quite well right now though. I'm a friggin Houstonian and the guy who pretty much took this website to another level when I merged the official site into this one. Question my fandom? yeah right. Hell you have never even been to a game till last week.

thunderkyss
10-18-2011, 11:49 AM
When Jacoby went 1 catch out of something like 11 looks from Schaub, I think Kubiak rightfully decided a more reliable and gritty WR needed to be brought aboard the Right Track Express.

However.....perhaps it COULD have been the plan to wait until after the Raiders game to add a WR, so as to not make people panic by bringing in Mason the day after AJ's MRI. The Texans are savvy like that; they know how to use smoke and mirrors when it comes to player injuries.

Or it could have been the fact that we only dressed 3 WRs for the game when we normally dress 5. David Anderson got in the game, that should tell you how bad it was.

Jacoby could have had a great game, 250 yards 6 TDs (not likely I know) & we still would have been looking to get WRs in here.

GP
10-18-2011, 12:06 PM
well, I worked for the 49ers...it's not like they are my favorite team. I never "left" for the 49ers. They are doing quite well right now though. I'm a friggin Houstonian and the guy who pretty much took this website to another level when I merged the official site into this one. Question my fandom? yeah right. Hell you have never even been to a game till last week.

I wasn't being mean. Why did you neg rep me?

All I was saying is that I actually admire that you're here with us again. You were here during the Carr years, and I remember how painful that was for all of us. I remember you being a 9ers fan, and I was just saying it must be nice to have a team like the 9ers who are doing good too.

Herv likes the Steelers, so I know he enjoys watching them do well also.

I 100% was not questioning your fandom. I apologize. Man, sometimes I think you and 'Cak immediately jump my ass without even giving me the benefit of the doubt.

I don't even get how it could be interpreted as being disrespectful to you.

EDIT: I DO remember you being on this board and moderating it and making it what we had all hoped the main board would be. I was here within the first freaking' week of this board's existence, to throw my allegiance into it when it had 12 posters on it. I remember you and Kaiser Toro reigning people in and banning people every day for weeks upon end, trying to make it into a great place. I DO have respect for you, but you for some reason read "disrespect" into any post I make that involves you. Back before you left, I had to send you a long PM explaining that I felt you misjudged me severely JUST due to what you were hearing from other posters and not giving me a fair shot on here. And you PM'd me back, and said "Yeah, after re-thinking on it, you're alright." It's nice to know that you are so reactionary that I can be a bad apple one second, "alright" the next, and back to being a loser once again. Maybe I shouldn't value your opinion as much anymore. Maybe I am to blame here. My bad.

thunderkyss
10-18-2011, 12:33 PM
I wasn't being mean. Why did you neg rep me?


heh-heh.... I thought your reply was kind of tongue in cheek myself.

I find that this -->:kitten:<-- helps.

Mr. White
10-18-2011, 12:38 PM
Ive had the feeling the Texans were lowballing us

I thought the same thing.

On it's face, the injury didn't look too bad, BUT.... the fact that it looked so severe when there were no tacklers around made me think that it was way worse than they were letting on.

A guy just doesn't pull up lame without any contact unless he didn't already have a problem with that leg. I wasn't buying the "he'll be off a couple weeks" line either. I've never heard of a procedure (aside from a cortisone shot) that takes a few weeks to come back from.

GP
10-18-2011, 12:38 PM
heh-heh.... I thought your reply was kind of tongue in cheek myself.

I find that this -->:kitten:<-- helps.

I was trying to go for brevity, since I'm told I am too lengthy in my posts.

I suppose I should have been more detailed in what I was saying to him. All I meant, and I am 100% honest when I say this here, is that at least Vinny has the 9ers to look forward to this season.

I can't win for losin'.....no wonder I like this Texans team so much. :texanbill:

Kthx
10-18-2011, 12:43 PM
Brevity is the soul of wit, but there is no need for a witty party.

Vinny
10-18-2011, 12:48 PM
I was trying to go for brevity, since I'm told I am too lengthy in my posts.

I suppose I should have been more detailed in what I was saying to him. All I meant, and I am 100% honest when I say this here, is that at least Vinny has the 9ers to look forward to this season.

I can't win for losin'.....no wonder I like this Texans team so much. :texanbill:
ok gp, I forgive you. I won't repnazi you anymore. I've had too much coffee, so throw the flag and back me up 15 yards...for another Texan first down! (and 25 yards to go). :handshake:

GP
10-18-2011, 12:54 PM
ok gp, I forgive you. I won't repnazi you anymore. I've had too much coffee, so throw the flag and back me up 15 yards...for another Texan first down! (and 25 yards to go). :handshake:

LOL. Man, I couldn't neg rep you because I knew that once I had a chance to speak with you that it would be OK between us. I sent you positive rep to show you, sincerely, that I was not attacking you at all.

Just glad to know we're good to go.

The neg rep makes no dent in my overall points standing. I can go on a Texans-style losing streak in rep points and still make the playoffs with ease. Can't say the same for the Texans, though. Ugggh.

All is well. Thank you, Vinny.

GP
10-18-2011, 12:55 PM
Brevity is the soul of wit, but there is no need for a witty party.

LOL. Just wanted to say that you've only got a few posts here, but I like your contributions so far.

Keep up the good work, Kthx.

Kthx
10-18-2011, 12:57 PM
I aim to please, my lord.

Ryan
10-24-2011, 12:05 PM
Any chance of a realistic return this week?


Since we figured out a way to win without him yesterday, i bet Gary wants to hold him out 1 or 2 more weeks.

thunderkyss
10-24-2011, 12:18 PM
Any chance of a realistic return this week?


Since we figured out a way to win without him yesterday, i bet Gary wants to hold him out 1 or 2 more weeks.

If he holds him out, it will be more because of the level of competition.

Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Cincy... we should be fine as long as we get him for that stretch.

100% healthy is extremely important for the Post season.
:koolaid:

CloakNNNdagger
10-30-2011, 03:24 PM
From Rotoworld:

Andre Johnson (hamstring, out) acknowledged Friday that his surgically repaired hamstring is only at 70-75 percent.

It sounds like he may be questionable for Week 9. The Texans have a bye in Week 10. "I donít feel like Iím ready to play," Johnson conceded. "Iím not at full speed yet." A more optimistic coach Gary Kubiak called Johnson "real close" to playing in games. Jacoby Jones will get at least one more start. Oct 28 - 4:19 PM
Source: Nick Scurfield on Twitter

Hervoyel
10-30-2011, 09:34 PM
From Rotoworld: The pessimist in me has me wondering if we've seen the last of the AJ we remember. I've got this horrible feeling in the back of my mind that they thought this was going to help him and it hasn't (and possibly it's made his situation worse). I keep thinking of Tony Boselli and how the shoulder that ended his career wasn't the one he injured badly the last time he played but instead the other one where they went in to clean up some scar tissue, made a mistake, and effectively ended his career in the process. I keep thinking of Domanick Davis and how his knee surgery was supposed to improve his problem knee but instead we never saw him again.

Injuries scare me. Andre Johnson injuries terrify me beyond the capacity for rational thought.

Ryan
10-30-2011, 10:53 PM
The pessimist in me has me wondering if we've seen the last of the AJ we remember. I've got this horrible feeling in the back of my mind that they thought this was going to help him and it hasn't (and possibly it's made his situation worse). I keep thinking of Tony Boselli and how the shoulder that ended his career wasn't the one he injured badly the last time he played but instead the other one where they went in to clean up some scar tissue, made a mistake, and effectively ended his career in the process. I keep thinking of Domanick Davis and how his knee surgery was supposed to improve his problem knee but instead we never saw him again.

Injuries scare me. Andre Johnson injuries terrify me beyond the capacity for rational thought.



Gonna pretend i didn't read this post so i don't go into manic depression.

EllisUnit
10-30-2011, 10:59 PM
The pessimist in me has me wondering if we've seen the last of the AJ we remember. I've got this horrible feeling in the back of my mind that they thought this was going to help him and it hasn't (and possibly it's made his situation worse). I keep thinking of Tony Boselli and how the shoulder that ended his career wasn't the one he injured badly the last time he played but instead the other one where they went in to clean up some scar tissue, made a mistake, and effectively ended his career in the process. I keep thinking of Domanick Davis and how his knee surgery was supposed to improve his problem knee but instead we never saw him again.

Injuries scare me. Andre Johnson injuries terrify me beyond the capacity for rational thought.

Johnson is a beast. he will be fine !!!!

Texn4life
10-30-2011, 11:09 PM
Johnson is a beast. he will be fine !!!!

I agree...... I think everyone was saying that we should rest him until after the bye week anyway so that gives him almost 4 full weeks to still get back to full strength. The Tampa game is starting to look a lot less scary now so I think that game is one we should win even without AJ.

Texanmike02
10-31-2011, 11:59 PM
I was listening to the radio bit by Dr. First and he said they clipped AJ's hamstring. I know it attaches in several places but he said that AJ may not have the same explosiveness and power he had before. Does that mean he may never get it back? Did we just sacrifice some of AJs power to try and get him back 2-3 weeks early? Really? CND if you read this please clarify that for me.

Mike

bckey
11-01-2011, 01:31 AM
That doesn't sound good at all. Sure hope AJ is the exception and can get back to his pre injury form.

NitroGSXR
11-01-2011, 02:06 AM
I don't care what others tell me. Returning to 100% is an impossibility after an injury like that. You're NEVER the same after surgery. Any kind of surgery. Period. Maybe close to what you were but never the "same".

thunderkyss
11-01-2011, 08:02 AM
I was listening to the radio bit by Dr. First and he said they clipped AJ's hamstring. I know it attaches in several places but he said that AJ may not have the same explosiveness and power he had before. Does that mean he may never get it back? Did we just sacrifice some of AJs power to try and get him back 2-3 weeks early? Really? CND if you read this please clarify that for me.

Mike

It was covered pretty thoroughly in this thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85564)

Supposedly there was a partial tear in one of his tendons which attaches the lower part of his hamstring near his knee. Sounds as if there was a previous surgery that didn't heal 100%, from years back, causing scar tissue that bothered Aj for some time. Aj mentioned a lump in the back of his leg that had been bothering him.

Andre was given two options, to repair the tendon, which would mean 9 weeks or more of recovery, or to cut the tendon completely and be back in 3 to 4 weeks. Just like you & me, Andre could chose whichever procedure he wanted, whether the team pressured him one way or the other really doesn't matter, the decision was ultimately Aj's.

Without the tendon attached, Aj will most likely not have the explosiveness or burst he used to. Aj knew this before the decision was made.

However, it is possible that Aj can have another surgery after the season that should restore him closer to 100% by reattaching the tendon.

That's what I understand anyway.

Texanmike02
11-01-2011, 08:59 AM
It was covered pretty thoroughly in this thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85564)

Supposedly there was a partial tear in one of his tendons which attaches the lower part of his hamstring near his knee. Sounds as if there was a previous surgery that didn't heal 100%, from years back, causing scar tissue that bothered Aj for some time. Aj mentioned a lump in the back of his leg that had been bothering him.

Andre was given two options, to repair the tendon, which would mean 9 weeks or more of recovery, or to cut the tendon completely and be back in 3 to 4 weeks. Just like you & me, Andre could chose whichever procedure he wanted, whether the team pressured him one way or the other really doesn't matter, the decision was ultimately Aj's.

Without the tendon attached, Aj will most likely not have the explosiveness or burst he used to. Aj knew this before the decision was made.

However, it is possible that Aj can have another surgery after the season that should restore him closer to 100% by reattaching the tendon.

That's what I understand anyway.

Thanks for the summary man. I looked through that one and they were talking about some vudu platelet shit so I kind of stopped reading after that... decided I was better off asking someone who knew what they meant.

I don't understand because the non-surgical treatment was 8 weeks wasn't it?

Mike

CloakNNNdagger
11-01-2011, 10:41 AM
I was listening to the radio bit by Dr. First and he said they clipped AJ's hamstring. I know it attaches in several places but he said that AJ may not have the same explosiveness and power he had before. Does that mean he may never get it back? Did we just sacrifice some of AJs power to try and get him back 2-3 weeks early? Really? CND if you read this please clarify that for me.

Mike

Thunderkyss gave you a start. I'll try to narrow it down. If you read my posts listed below, you ought understand my line of thinking/analysis of the situation.

From the AJ OUT FOR A FEW WEEKS, HAS PROCEDURE (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85564) thread:

Look at posts #24, 37 (ignore PCL comments), 270, 273 and 329.


From the CASEY AND AJ WILL PRACTICE THIS WEEK (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1813450#post1813450) thread:

Look at posts #41 and 58.

That should answer most of your questions.

CloakNNNdagger
11-01-2011, 10:58 AM
Thanks for the summary man. I looked through that one and they were talking about some vudu platelet shit so I kind of stopped reading after that... decided I was better off asking someone who knew what they meant.

I don't understand because the non-surgical treatment was 8 weeks wasn't it?

Mike

The risk with this approach was that >40% of non-surgical treatment cases failed and required surgery anyway.

The repair of the tendon would probably require 2 months at least to return to play safely. But the decision was made to simply complete the rupture surgically, believing that it would be a shorter rehab because you wouldn't be concerned with a repair rupturing when trying to return to play. The problem is that the length of rehab with the release procedure has not been entirely and accurately defined in the medical literature, due to factors beyond a surgeon's control, like continued inflammation, scar tissue from the release procedure itself, infection, fluid collection in the area of release and continued long term pain. And this does not even address the morbidity of this procedure leaving that question of residual hamstring weakness and potential permanent partial loss of elite explosiveness.

A 2004 study [EDIT: among others; some have reported resulting knee instability] reported that testing hamstring strength at high degrees of flexion can demonstrate a significant deficit associated with the harvesting of hamstring tendon grafts (as in ACL repairs). In fact in the US, due to the morbidities to the donor site involved in the use of hamstring tendon grafts, the trend has been to instead use allografts (grafts from cadavers)

CloakNNNdagger
11-01-2011, 11:18 AM
MODS, it would probably be easier to follow AJ's progress if this thread were merged with the AJ OUT FOR A FEW WEEKS, HAS PROCEDURE. Thanks.

Texanmike02
11-01-2011, 11:35 AM
Thunderkyss gave you a start. I'll try to narrow it down. If you read my posts listed below, you ought understand my line of thinking/analysis of the situation.

From the AJ OUT FOR A FEW WEEKS, HAS PROCEDURE (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85564) thread:

Look at posts #24, 37 (ignore PCL comments), 270, 273 and 329.


From the CASEY AND AJ WILL PRACTICE THIS WEEK (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1813450#post1813450) thread:

Look at posts #41 and 58.

That should answer most of your questions.

Thanks!

Mike

CloakNNNdagger
11-01-2011, 12:26 PM
Not surprising at all.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/235/649/Glazer_original.jpg?1320091595

The Cush
11-01-2011, 12:31 PM
wow, has anyone else in sports had a similar procedure?

Kthx
11-01-2011, 12:41 PM
If our training/medical staff recommended something like this to AJ to shave a few weeks off his healing time and it ends up jacking up his career for life I would expect some heads to roll ASAP.

I mean AJ just wants to win.. I am sure if someone told him this procedure was safe he would accept it.

Kthx
11-01-2011, 12:44 PM
Oh yeah I was meaning to ask also CND, is there any long term side effects of having this procedure done, I mean in 20 years is this going to be detrimental to his health as opposed to letting it heal naturally?

CloakNNNdagger
11-01-2011, 01:11 PM
wow, has anyone else in sports had a similar procedure?

This is a case where a procedure completes the rupture of a partial tear. The reported experience of sports related complete rupture (which would be close to the equivalent of surgically releasing the hamstring) carries with it a 10+ week recovery if left unrepaired......... if this approach does not fail and requires surgery. It therefore surprises me to think that a "short" recovery was so optimistically and, in my opinion, unrealistically expected to occur.

There is only one case in the orthopedic literature (2006) of this tendon having been surgically released after failed conservative treatment. This was described as "successful," but I could not find if this was in an athlete (especially an elite) or not, or what really defined "successful" or the actual length of "successful" recovery.

CloakNNNdagger
11-01-2011, 01:16 PM
If our training/medical staff recommended something like this to AJ to shave a few weeks off his healing time and it ends up jacking up his career for life I would expect some heads to roll ASAP.

I mean AJ just wants to win.. I am sure if someone told him this procedure was safe he would accept it.

Oh yeah I was meaning to ask also CND, is there any long term side effects of having this procedure done, I mean in 20 years is this going to be detrimental to his health as opposed to letting it heal naturally?

If you or I had this procedure done, following the normal healing process, there would be no truly noticeable difference in our everyday activities or in an ordinary "pick up" sports competition. When AJ's professional carrier has ended, it is unlikely that this procedure will have left him with any notable deficits.

Kthx
11-01-2011, 01:23 PM
Thanks for the info again. I don't want any player to have to deal with long term injuries but with AJ it seems more personal to me I guess since he is going to probably give his entire career to Houston and hes done it with nothing but greatness in every area of his life here. Sounds silly I guess but hey hes earned my respect plus some.

Insideop
11-01-2011, 01:31 PM
If our training/medical staff recommended something like this to AJ to shave a few weeks off his healing time and it ends up jacking up his career for life I would expect some heads to roll ASAP.

I mean AJ just wants to win.. I am sure if someone told him this procedure was safe he would accept it.

I'm sure AJ was given all the options and had the final say. He's 30 and been in the league 9 years. He may be looking at this as his only chance to help the team get into the playoffs. He may have decided to roll the dice now and go for it, with the option of having further surgery in the off season, rather that have the repair surgery now and not be able to come back at all this season. It's a tough call either way for him and a tough break for the premier WR in the NFL. I hope he makes it back all the way and we give him a run for the Superbowl! :trophy: He deserves it!

Marcus
11-01-2011, 02:55 PM
I don't understand.

I mean, I understand the bit about doing this procedure to "shave a few weeks off the healing time" and all that ...... but what good is it going to do if can no longer get separation from his defenders?

And is that the standard he's using when he says "I'm not playing until I feel 100%"???

Might as well just IR him. I mean .. God damn! :hairpull:

Double Barrel
11-01-2011, 02:59 PM
AJ at 80% is still better than 95% of WRs in the NFL...IMO, of course.

gtexan02
11-01-2011, 03:08 PM
Is it going too far to be scared that he has permanently lost his elite acceleration?

Dutchrudder
11-01-2011, 03:15 PM
As long as it doesn't effect his play in 2012, I'm OK with it. All that matters is that he will be able to come back to 100% by next August. It would be great to have him back this year, but I don't want to see his career jeopardized over this. Do the right thing and think of the future, not one year's playoffs.

Ryan
11-01-2011, 03:15 PM
This is depressing me. Schaub never usually completes a pass like that like the one that AJ caught that turned into the injury, just all sorts of flukiness going around.

Ole Miss Texan
11-01-2011, 03:27 PM
This is depressing me. Schaub never usually completes a pass like that like the one that AJ caught that turned into the injury, just all sorts of flukiness going around.

:um:

CloakNNNdagger
11-01-2011, 03:29 PM
AJ at 80% is still better than 95% of WRs in the NFL...IMO, of course.

AJ at 80% is still better than 95% of WRs in the NFL...IMO, of course.

DB, that may or may not be true depending on what the 20% deficit reflects. If explosiveness/acceleration is as big of an advantage he has had over other WRs, and this is where most of his deficit is felt, he may not necessarily come out better than 95% of WRs. In the elite WR, small factors can affect performance rankings.

AJ has stated that he feels "70%." But, keep in mind that players have been shown to consistently overestimate their status in the rehab process compared to electro-mechanical instrument-measurable determinants.

CloakNNNdagger
11-01-2011, 03:36 PM
Is it going too far to be scared that he has permanently lost his elite acceleration?

We probably won't have the final answer to the question of his "elite acceleration" until next year. Meanwhile to answer YOUR question.........it isn't going too far to be at least concerned about the ultimate outcome of untested waters.

Kthx
11-01-2011, 03:53 PM
Geez CND, Halloween was yesterday theres no need to scare the shit out of me today.

fiasco west
11-01-2011, 04:12 PM
I can understand why the team wanted to do this, considering the timing of the injury...right after the team handled the Steelers easily enough, a Steelers team that turns out to be pretty good btw.

That this team was pretty good and a contender it could have became (although I think that all goes out the window when Mario got hurt)

As far as his explosiveness. Andre is such a talented WR he doesn't need elite speed to get past his guys. He's more physical than any WR in the NFL and his route running. He can still be a top 10 WR at least, I guess we are just going to have to see.

Runner
11-01-2011, 04:22 PM
I've always been concerned the Texans were piddling around with spin-it-right-and-it-looks-like-success during Dre's best years rather than doing what it takes to have real success against loftier goals. If Dre doesn't come back 100%, that concern will have been justified.

I'm still going to bank on full recovery though. I'm an optimist.

Marcus
11-01-2011, 10:25 PM
AJ has been injured many times over the past nine seasons. And each time, when have they EVER been completely forthcoming about his injury. And when have they EVER released the results of his MRI?

There's something else going on besides a "pulled hammy"

I don't expect him back, and completely effective until the JAX game . . . . in week 12 after the buy week.

I remember making that post way back in week 4. Now, it turns out I'll be amazed if he comes back this season at all.

I just can't stand how this team handles injury situations.

steelbtexan
11-01-2011, 10:49 PM
I remember making that post way back in week 4. Now, it turns out I'll be amazed if he comes back this season at all.

I just can't stand how this team handles injury situations.

AJ could've been healthy in 8-10 weeks.

But because Garys job is on the line. The Texans/AJ chose to play with fire and if he only comes back at 75%. Then the Texans came up snakeyes on this gamble.

What's going to be really bad is if in the offseason the tendon is unable to be reattached properly. (Is this a possibility?) And AJ's career is less than what it could be, then Dr.Lowe should be tarred and feathered for letting this happen. Along with BoBBy,Gary,Rick etc...

All to save 2-3 weeks of rehab time, that's just plain stupid. IMHO

Pantherstang84
11-01-2011, 10:52 PM
AJ could've been healthy in 8-10 weeks.

But because Garys job is on the line. The Texans/AJ chose to play with fire and if he only comes back at 75%. Then the Texans came up snakeyes on this gamble.

What's going to be really bad is if in the offseason the tendon is unable to be reattached properly. (Is this a possibility?) And AJ's career is less than what it could be, then Dr.Lowe should be tarred and feathered for letting this happen. Along with BoBBy,Gary,Rick etc...

All to save 2-3 weeks of rehab time, that's just plain stupid. IMHO

Ultimately it was Dre's decision on how to deal with the injury. Unless, folks believe Kubiak held a gun to Dre's head until the anesthesia took effect.

steelbtexan
11-01-2011, 11:02 PM
Dr. Lowe could've removed AJ, Gary etc.... from the equation by doing the right thing. IMHO

Vinny
11-02-2011, 10:34 AM
He's not practicing today.

IBleedTexans
11-02-2011, 11:24 AM
He's not practicing today.

Source????

SeŮor Stan
11-02-2011, 11:25 AM
Source????

Here's a link to a reliable source...

Andre not practicing today (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1818186&postcount=366)

Texn4life
11-02-2011, 11:37 AM
I think you will start to see Andre's progress slowed down in order to get him ready for the last 6 games after the bye week. There's no need to ramp him up if he still has a full 3 weeks to get ready for those games.

Kthx
11-02-2011, 11:38 AM
Ive been looking for one but all I can find is the twitter account for these forums that vinny has linked as his sig. I would think espn/yahoo/mcclain would be all over this.

Ryan
11-02-2011, 11:38 AM
Don't even mess with it until the bye week. I used to be in the "Get him back, ASAP" bandwagon, but we need him well for the home stretch and his progress is incredibly slow right now it seems.

IBleedTexans
11-02-2011, 11:48 AM
Rotoworld is reporting it

ATXtexanfan
11-02-2011, 11:52 AM
not practicing, hope there wasn't a setback

Vinnie
11-02-2011, 11:58 AM
Reading CND's takes on Andre's injury has had me extremely worried from the time we found out what exactly the procedure was he had done. It would seem a full recovery may not be in Andre's future. Still I'd take a 90-95% Andre over most WR's in the league every day of the week.

Dutchrudder
11-02-2011, 12:01 PM
Reading CND's takes on Andre's injury has had me extremely worried from the time we found out what exactly the procedure was he had done. It would seem a full recovery may not be in Andre's future. Still I'd take a 90-95% Andre over most WR's in the league every day of the week.

I'd take a 100% Andre in 2012 over a 70% Andre for the rest of his career. If this procedure hurts his career, I hope the entire medical staff gets the axe. It's so damn shortsighted and unnecessary, I just can't believe they would do something so risky.

ThaShark316
11-02-2011, 12:42 PM
Y'all are killing me with the doom and gloom shit.

Vinny
11-02-2011, 12:43 PM
Y'all are killing me with the doom and gloom shit.don't worry, it's fan throwback week (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1818301&postcount=203). Since we don't have throwback jerseys, it's just gonna have to do.

Marcus
11-02-2011, 12:53 PM
Reading CND's takes on Andre's injury has had me extremely worried from the time we found out what exactly the procedure was he had done. It would seem a full recovery may not be in Andre's future. Still I'd take a 90-95% Andre over most WR's in the league every day of the week.

Where the hell you getting this 90-95% stuff?

He's only 70%, and unless I'm shown anything different, it's going to remain 70%. I don't think some of you are understanding what has taken place here.

To be fair, it was AJ's decision to take this gamble. Unfortunately, he lost.

Vinny
11-02-2011, 12:55 PM
Where the hell you getting this 90-95% stuff?

He's only 70%, and unless I'm shown anything different, it's going to remain 70%. I don't think some of you are understanding what has taken place here.

To be fair, it was AJ's decision to take this gamble. Unfortunately, he lost.
where the hell do we get these numbers anyway? On the underside of his feet?

CloakNNNdagger
11-02-2011, 12:56 PM
Andre Johnson Injury: Texans WR Will Not Practice Today

Nov 02 11:02a by Ryan Van Bibber

Houston Texans wide receiver Andre Johnson will not be on the field for the teamís Wednesday practice. Head Coach Gary Kubiak revealed that news to the Cleveland media in a conference call today ahead of Houstonís home game this week against the Cleveland Browns. Kubiak described Johnsonís status as day-to-day, and said that he has a chance of playing this week.

Johnson is dealing with a hamstring injury he suffered in Houstonís week 4 win over the Pittsburgh Steelers. He has not played since that game.

Last week, Kubiak expressed some optimism that Johnson might play in their game against Jacksonville. Johnson, however, sounded less optimistic than his coach, noting that he was still having trouble opening up his stride while running.link (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2011/11/2/2532739/andre-johnson-injury-status-houston-texans)

BROWN's WRITER:

@ScottPetrak Scott Petrak
Texans coach Kubiak said WR Andre Johnson won't practice today, is day-to-day, has shot at playing Sunday vs. #Browns. Been out about month.
1 hour ago via web:kitten:

ThaShark316
11-02-2011, 12:58 PM
Where the hell you getting this 90-95% stuff?

He's only 70%, and unless I'm shown anything different, it's going to remain 70%. I don't think some of you are understanding what has taken place here.

To be fair, it was AJ's decision to take this gamble. Unfortunately, he lost.

So why do we have clowns saying "get rid of the trainers"? :kubepalm:

Marcus
11-02-2011, 12:59 PM
where the hell do we get these numbers anyway? On the underside of his feet?

It was AJ himself who said he was only 70%. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

Vinny
11-02-2011, 01:02 PM
It was AJ himself who said he was only 70%. Correct me if I'm wrong there.I wasn't really being literal....I just thought it was amusing to put some absolute number on something like that...its just sports clichť stuff to me.

Kthx
11-02-2011, 01:10 PM
So wait.. Kubiak tells the Cleveland press about AJ not practicing today before he tells Houston?

So this is either Kubiak trying to make them not game plan for AJ as much per previous comments about not practicing = not playing or I am sorta pissed that we wouldn't be the first to know.

Vinnie
11-02-2011, 01:16 PM
Where the hell you getting this 90-95% stuff?

He's only 70%, and unless I'm shown anything different, it's going to remain 70%. I don't think some of you are understanding what has taken place here.

To be fair, it was AJ's decision to take this gamble. Unfortunately, he lost.

I read that same thing and figured if he's 70% and not even fully healed maybe there was more room for improvement. Also, seeing as Andre has always given 110% maybe he could actually get back to 100% :kitten:

Kthx
11-02-2011, 01:17 PM
If he gives 110% of his 70% that puts him at 80%, so we are getting closer. :kitten:

thunderkyss
11-02-2011, 01:27 PM
Reading CND's takes on Andre's injury has had me extremely worried from the time we found out what exactly the procedure was he had done. It would seem a full recovery may not be in Andre's future. Still I'd take a 90-95% Andre over most WR's in the league every day of the week.

After reading CnD's reports, it doesn't appear to me that Andre's injury is in any way similar to the "normal" hamstring injuries, where the muscle itself tears & needs time to heal.

In Andre's case, it was a ruptured tendon that was completely cut loose. So there should be no reason to believe he will re-aggravate it like a "normal" hamstring injury.

The only set back I can think of would be an infection or some kind of swelling from fluid build up.

Basically, we're just waiting for a small incision to heal, & Andre to feel comfortable with it.

Waiting an extra week, or till the bye doesn't really buy us (Andre) anything.

Hervoyel
11-02-2011, 01:27 PM
If he gives 110% of his 70% that puts him at 80%, so we are getting closer. :kitten:

"60% of the time Andre Johnson's surgically 70%-repaired hamstring "tendon-thingy" is effective 100% of the time."

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e176/kdkris727/ron.jpg

Vinnie
11-02-2011, 01:35 PM
If he gives 110% of his 70% that puts him at 80%, so we are getting closer. :kitten:

Actually, that would be 77%. We're moving back the wrong direction! :kitten:

Marcus
11-02-2011, 02:08 PM
So why do we have clowns saying "get rid of the trainers"? :kubepalm:

Umm....hmmm...could possibly be that those clowns don't know what the **** they're talking about? Taking a wild stab at it there. :rolleyes:

Runner
11-02-2011, 02:36 PM
I wasn't really being literal....I just thought it was amusing to put some absolute number on something like that...its just sports clichť stuff to me.

I think the 70% was measured. They had him sprint and he had only gone 28 yards in the time he previously could run 40 yards. It's all very scientific.*


*actually, I just made this all up. :)

Hardcore Texan
11-02-2011, 02:53 PM
42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I am going back to bury my head in the sand, ignorance is BLISS!

Hervoyel
11-02-2011, 04:10 PM
42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I am going back to bury my head in the sand, ignorance is BLISS!

Actually, if you want to be accurate only 43.6% of bliss is made up of ignorance. The rest of it is a filler material made of low-value pork trimmings, high-fructose corn syrup, and artificial pork flavor.

Hardcore Texan
11-02-2011, 04:22 PM
Actually, if you want to be accurate only 43.6% of bliss is made up of ignorance. The rest of it is a filler material made of low-value pork trimmings, high-fructose corn syrup, and artificial pork flavor.

Don't forget some of DB's "chicken-loaf"....:kitten:

steelbtexan
11-03-2011, 01:45 PM
He said that he could be back in a few days or a few weeks..........will get some additional 2nd opinions.

This makes me think that the 2nd opinions are to determine whether to take a non-surgical vs surgical approach. In other words, I believe that the MRI may have already identified a subtotal tear or complete tear/avulsion of the distal hamstring tendon (or the PCL). With a distal hamstring avulsion, there has been controversy whether to surgically repair or not.

Most hamstring tears/avulsions occur more proximal as in this illustration.

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/figures/A00408F02.jpg


(See my previous post showing the distal hamstring tendon attachments.)

One study published in the past few years reported on elite athletes with this type of injury. They found that in the nonoperative treatment group (12), 7 players recovered at an average of 10.4 weeks (range, 3-35). Five of these players (42%) failed initial nonoperative treatment (mean, 16.8 weeks) and subsequently had surgery to resect the torn tendon and surrounding scar tissue. These 5 players recovered at an average of 12.8 weeks postoperatively. In the acute [immediate] surgery group, 5 players had surgery to resect the torn tendon and scar tissue within 4 weeks of injury. The acute-phase group had an average recovery of 6.8 weeks after surgery.

I believe that this is possibly the dilemma facing AJ and the organization. Making a decision that at least gets him back before the end of the season or playoffs.

There is no mention of the PCL, but let's say that if the PCL has theoretically been shown to be completely torn, a little different situation exists but with similar decision quandary. Surgical reconstruction of the PCL is controversial, and usually only recommended for grade III PCL tears. Because of the technical difficulty of the surgery, some orthopedic surgeons do not see the benefit of PCL reconstruction. Others, however, believe PCL reconstruction can lead to improved knee stability and lower the likelihood of problems down the road. Non-surgical rehab can take 6-8 weeks........Surgical rehab 6 months.

Again, let me emphasize that I have no access to the findings, physical or radiological. But if this were just a straight forward "minor" hamstring problems, I don't believe that there would be need for several 2nd opinions.

Let me leave you with this article that appeared after an MRI was obtained in 2007 following AJ's PCL/MCL injury. You might want to compare some of the wording.



AJ ending up missing 7 games..........

Man, C-N-D, this post appears to be spot on.

I was listening to Dr. First podcast on 610 this morning and this post was almost prophetic. According to Dr. First the timetable for recovery was skewed when the Texans Dr.'s said 3-6 weeks. Because one of the procedures was done on a QB that made it back in 3 wks. The avg time that it takes a WR appears to be 6-10 wks. And this procedure was done to only 5 athletes. There's really no way of being sure when AJ will be back. Due to such a limited number of athletes that have had this procedure.

According to Dr.First the procedure was done so that once AJ got back on the field his chances of pulling/rupturing the tendon again would be lessened. Although there is a chance he could reinjure it again. What's going on with the soreness AJ is experiencing now is the hamstring muscle is firing off but because the tendon is not attched AJ's brain is telling him something is wrong with his hamstring. (hence the soreness)

C-N-D, am I interpeting this correctly and in your opinion what would be the best option for AJ, bringing him back this yr. Or letting him rehab during the offseason and hopefully getting AJ back 100% next yr. I realize that this is a hypothetical question because the study only contains 5 athletes. But I would love to get your thoughts on this study/subject.

CloakNNNdagger
11-03-2011, 03:51 PM
Man, C-N-D, this post appears to be spot on.

I was listening to Dr. First podcast on 610 this morning and this post was almost prophetic. According to Dr. First the timetable for recovery was skewed when the Texans Dr.'s said 3-6 weeks. Because one of the procedures was done on a QB that made it back in 3 wks. The avg time that it takes a WR appears to be 6-10 wks. And this procedure was done to only 5 athletes. There's really no way of being sure when AJ will be back. Due to such a limited number of athletes that have had this procedure.

According to Dr.First the procedure was done so that once AJ got back on the field his chances of pulling/rupturing the tendon again would be lessened. Although there is a chance he could reinjure it again. What's going on with the soreness AJ is experiencing now is the hamstring muscle is firing off but because the tendon is not attched AJ's brain is telling him something is wrong with his hamstring. (hence the soreness)

C-N-D, am I interpeting this correctly and in your opinion what would be the best option for AJ, bringing him back this yr. Or letting him rehab during the offseason and hopefully getting AJ back 100% next yr. I realize that this is a hypothetical question because the study only contains 5 athletes. But I would love to get your thoughts on this study/subject.

My post which you quoted was from 4 weeks ago just before AJ's surgical procedure was performed. I referred to the study that included the five athletes treated with the approach taken for AJ. AJ's operating orthopedic surgeon had previously performed initial surgical release of partial distal hamstring tears on 5 players. As you pointed out, one was a QB. In contrast, the other 4 types of players were those that would require significant acceleration and explosiveness to perform well. And this was ONE of the reasons I was very hesitant to accept as quick a return to play as was initially put out. When you only have 5 players making up the entire pool of stats.......and the 5 AVERAGE 6.8 weeks for return........and ONE player sticks out as so much of an aberrant statistical "outlier," then you can only imagine what the return to play length would have been had only the 4 players been included in the calculations........probably closer to 8-10 weeks. Now, does that mean you can't throw a player out there whether he is truly ready or not? Obviously the answer to that is "no." A player can be released to play before he is truly prepared to play well. Yet, keep in mind, if the player doesn't even feel that his hamstring feels fine, he is likely to compensate by stressing other structures.......hence setting himself up for very increased risk for other injuries occurring.

Dr. Cooper, AJ's surgeon, is an excellent surgeon. But he himself at this point, could not tell you with certainty from the experience he has had with his other 5 players any more than "they all returned to play." This is simply too small of a sample to make any definitive predictable conclusions on ultimate outcomes. No true electromechanical measurements or performance ratings of performance levels were offered to accurately and objectively assess actual pre and postoperative differences (short-term or long-term). It is obvious that even Dr. First, who is himself an excellent orthopedic surgeon, morphed from his initial more optimistic return outlook following his review of the same study I had originally posted.

There is little doubt that AJ will at some point "return to play." However, what I believe is not entirely predictable is how much (after supposed "full healing and rehab) permanent effect having done the release rather than the re-attachment of the tendon might have on his ultimate long-term performance level.

TEXANRED
11-03-2011, 06:08 PM
I am hoping he will be ready in time for the playoffs. Other than that he needs to take his time and make sure he is ready to play.

thunderkyss
11-03-2011, 06:42 PM
There is little doubt that AJ will at some point "return to play." However, what I believe is not entirely predictable is how much (after supposed "full healing and rehab) permanent effect having done the release rather than the re-attachment of the tendon might have on his ultimate long-term performance level.

Is this the kind of work you do? Do you have experience re-attaching tendons?

I ask, because I'd like to ask:

Would you have suggested the "complete the rupture" procedure then "re-attach" the tendon as a possible course? Or would you have suggested only the repair procedure?

Is there any reason to believe re-attaching would be less successful at a later date than immediate re-attachment?

CloakNNNdagger
11-03-2011, 07:38 PM
Is this the kind of work you do? Do you have experience re-attaching tendons?

I ask, because I'd like to ask:

Would you have suggested the "complete the rupture" procedure then "re-attach" the tendon as a possible course? Or would you have suggested only the repair procedure?

Is there any reason to believe re-attaching would be less successful at a later date than immediate re-attachment?


I have personally had a good deal of experience with tendon injuries, their complications. But not this particular tendon (semitendinosus). It is a very uncommon type of injury and has very limited coverage in the medical literature. Although with tendon injuries, there are still some basic principles that apply universally and one of those is that you try to reconstruct them anatomically whenever possible to best recreat the function of the muscle of tendon. The procedure that was done for AJ was mainly in consideration of getting him back as quick as possible without the risk of re-tear if the re-attachment was performed and then stressed too early. If the goal was not limited in time of recovery, and a resignation to the typical months required for full healing of a tendon repair, in return for anatomic reconstruction, then that would have probably been the ideal. But AJ would have had to go on IR, and evidently no one wanted to take that route.

As far as reattachment LATER. I understand the surgery entailed cutting out the torn tendon. If the muscle is allowed to retract upwards with scarring over even a couple of months, even in a fairly limited fashion, it may be too short to mobilize and stretch what's left to re-attach it to the bone, or without it pulling apart because of too much tension. And if the tendon was indeed entirely cut out, a muscle to bone re-attachment is much less predictable than tendon to bone. Sometimes other procedures can be entertained, but you can see, it gets quite complicated, and again less predictable.

Brisco_County
11-03-2011, 08:02 PM
I am not worried about Andre's ability to recuperate. I am worried about the decisions made by the coach and medical staff regarding the timeframe.

thunderkyss
11-03-2011, 08:38 PM
As far as reattachment LATER. I understand the surgery entailed cutting out the torn tendon. If the muscle is allowed to retract upwards with scarring over even a couple of months, even in a fairly limited fashion, it may be too short to mobilize and stretch what's left to re-attach it to the bone, or without it pulling apart because of too much tension. And if the tendon was indeed entirely cut out, a muscle to bone re-attachment is much less predictable than tendon to bone. Sometimes other procedures can be entertained, but you can see, it gets quite complicated, and again less predictable.

when they did my daughters ACL, we were given the option to use a donor from a cadaver. Would that be an otion here?

Texan_Bill
11-03-2011, 08:53 PM
when they did my daughters ACL, we were given the option to use a donor from a cadaver. Would that be an otion here?

Don't mean to pry TK but how is old your daughter and how did she tear up her ACL??

thunderkyss
11-03-2011, 09:09 PM
Don't mean to pry TK but how is old your daughter and how did she tear up her ACL??

She was 16 at the time. Rounding second in a softball game, it just popped. The first doctor said it was only sprained, a year later she was still having trouble. We went to a second specialist he said it was totally gone. Since it had been a year, he said her.MCLs were stretched & would never tighten back on their own.

After replacing her Axle with the cadavers, he also tightened het MCLs. She was in a brace for three months after the surgery & wasn't able to play her Senior year.

CloakNNNdagger
11-03-2011, 09:23 PM
when they did my daughters ACL, we were given the option to use a donor from a cadaver. Would that be an otion here?

Sorry to hear about your daughter.

That's what the trend is going to in the US, because of the morbidity that has been encountered in the graft donor sites. I mentioned this in another post:

A 2004 study [EDIT: among others; some have reported resulting knee instability] reported that testing hamstring strength at high degrees of flexion can demonstrate a significant deficit associated with the harvesting of hamstring tendon grafts (as in ACL repairs). In fact in the US, due to the morbidities to the donor site involved in the use of hamstring tendon grafts, the trend has been to instead use allografts (grafts from cadavers)

[EDIT: I reread your question and I guess you were referring to attaching the retracted muscle to the bone by a cadaver (allograft) tendon graft. You are still limited by the weakest link which would then again be the muscle attachment......this time to the tendon. Although if they left some tendon on the muscle side and didn't remove the whole thing, then sewing the interposition cadaver tendon to the bone on one end and to the remaining hamstring tendon on the other end would be possible. However, trying to separate all the scar tissue to mobilize the semitendinosus (separate/loosen from the surrounding tissues) muscle would still very like lead to some element of morbidity and unpredictability.]