PDA

View Full Version : Jason Allen's INT


jtexas
10-03-2011, 01:03 PM
Great play by Allen, but why the heck was he left alone without safety help over the top? 30 seconds left in the game and we risk man coverage? I thought it was the Jets game all over again when that ball was in the air.

silvrhand
10-03-2011, 01:06 PM
Great play by Allen, but why the heck was he left alone without safety help over the top? 30 seconds left in the game and we risk man coverage? I thought it was the Jets game all over again when that ball was in the air.

Risky but sometimes it works out, that's what you get when you play aggressive. Would rather go down swinging than the dime sit on your butts, go with what was working for you and it was working for them in the 4th quarter.

Did anyone see how far JA was off the line on that play I suspect he was rather far off his man, everyone in the building new it was going to be a deep throw.

The Cush
10-03-2011, 01:09 PM
For some reason we weren't in a standard prevent defense, maybe because there was 10 seconds left, but Troy Nolan was the safety on that side of the field lined up behind Allen a little. He ends up trailing on the play, maybe by design or maybe by getting burned. I feel really fortunate we escaped with a victory though either way.

Scooter
10-03-2011, 01:21 PM
we were in a cover 4. allen, both safeties, and joseph were all deep - they WERE the over the top help. the safety on allen's side was slow to get over on that play and ended up underneath. i'd put that on the safety (not the scheme) for not being deep enough.

Dutchrudder
10-03-2011, 01:36 PM
I'm just happy to see that Allen was smart enough to stay behind the WR, instead of trying to keep pace with him like KJ would normally do.

Hardcore Texan
10-03-2011, 05:30 PM
we were in a cover 4. allen, both safeties, and joseph were all deep - they WERE the over the top help. the safety on allen's side was slow to get over on that play and ended up underneath. i'd put that on the safety (not the scheme) for not being deep enough.

You know your defense good sir, must be all that dotball :tiphat:

EllisUnit
10-03-2011, 06:52 PM
You know your defense good sir, must be all that dotball :tiphat:

think he quit playing dotball !!!! Sucks cause i am pretty hardcore into GLB.

TexansSeminole
10-03-2011, 06:59 PM
Yea, Nolan did not have a very good game on Sunday. He dropped a sure INT when Big Ben threw the ball directly at him. He may have moved one or two steps after the snap from his original starting position in the defensive formation. Then, of course, the play in question where he was completely out of position. We got real lucky that those two plays didn't bite us in the end.

Jason Allen got picked on all day. Back shoulder throws on 3 or 4 occasions. Im glad he was able to get over the top at the end there though.

Our secondary is still not very good. We will lose a couple games this year bc of it guaranteed.

EllisUnit
10-03-2011, 07:08 PM
Yea, Nolan did not have a very good game on Sunday. He dropped a sure INT when Big Ben threw the ball directly at him. He may have moved one or two steps after the snap from his original starting position in the defensive formation. Then, of course, the play in question where he was completely out of position. We got real lucky that those two plays didn't bite us in the end.

Jason Allen got picked on all day. Back shoulder throws on 3 or 4 occasions. Im glad he was able to get over the top at the end there though.

Our secondary is still not very good. We will lose a couple this year bc of it guaranteed.

Nolan under cut that Near INT. He jumped the route, which shows good vision. And i still don't see how Allen was Picked on all day. he gave up 5 receptions for 67 yards and was thrown at 10 times. all the while Ben threw it 30 times.

thunderkyss
10-03-2011, 07:25 PM
Nolan under cut that Near INT. He jumped the route, which shows good vision. And i still don't see how Allen was Picked on all day. he gave up 5 receptions for 67 yards and was thrown at 10 times. all the while Ben threw it 30 times.

There was a time in the 3rd Qtr where every pass went at whoever Allen was covering. Several were incomplete, no thanks to Allen. Just bad throws by Ben. The catches that were made, Allen had some help on most of those tackles.

If you want to see, go to the Steelers opening drive of the third Qtr.

Don't get me wrong, Allen played a good game, made some plays, but he is not the calbre CB you think he is.

jtexas
10-03-2011, 07:43 PM
we were in a cover 4. allen, both safeties, and joseph were all deep - they WERE the over the top help. the safety on allen's side was slow to get over on that play and ended up underneath. i'd put that on the safety (not the scheme) for not being deep enough.

Re-watching it i agree it was cover 4, but yeah that's what the "safety" is for. No one gets over the top. Like i said in my original post, the exact same thing happened in the Jets game, but this time Allen made an awesome play.

beerlover
10-03-2011, 07:47 PM
Re-watching it i agree it was cover 4, but yeah that's what the "safety" is for. No one gets over the top. Like i said in my original post, the exact same thing happened in the Jets game, but this time Allen made an awesome play.

In other words, at least on this play, Allen had perfect FS position/ coverage. :kitten:

TexansSeminole
10-03-2011, 08:23 PM
Nolan under cut that Near INT. He jumped the route, which shows good vision. And i still don't see how Allen was Picked on all day. he gave up 5 receptions for 67 yards and was thrown at 10 times. all the while Ben threw it 30 times.

I think we all have figured out by now that you are legally blind.

Moving on.

Rey
10-03-2011, 08:30 PM
The catches that were made, Allen had some help on most of those tackles.

If you want to see, go to the Steelers opening drive of the third Qtr.

Don't get me wrong, Allen played a good game, made some plays, but he is not the calbre CB you think he is.

Allen was credited for 6 solos.

That said, he is not a very good tackler.

dtran04
10-03-2011, 08:31 PM
Nolan also got beat on a would be TD if Ben would have made a half decent throw.

TexansSeminole
10-03-2011, 09:36 PM
Nolan also got beat on a would be TD if Ben would have made a half decent throw.

Yes, I remember that.

It was pitch and catch, Ben just missed him.

Overall, KJ looks like our best option at #2 right now IMO and that's scary. Even if you lean toward JA, its the same situation. We desperately need TWO corners to step up.

We have really lucked out on our schedule this year. Go take a look at it and tell me how many good passing teams you see. There are only a few. You've got the elite Saints, but then who? Bucs? Ravens? Carolina? Atlanta?

This is the perfect year for these young corners to gain some confidence.

DocBar
10-03-2011, 10:06 PM
Damn. I wonder how Aso, Samuels and Rodgers-Cromartie and company did this past weekend. Scheme has as much, or more, to do with success as talent does at CB/S in the NFL. That's a chit-pot full of $$ for a "dream team" 1-3 secondary. My point is that the coaches need to recognize where the secondary's talents lie and adjust accordingly.

GP
10-03-2011, 10:20 PM
He should have just batted that ball instead of trying to catch it. Reckless stunt.

The Pencil Neck
10-03-2011, 10:23 PM
He should have just batted that ball instead of trying to catch it. Reckless stunt.

I worry about you.

Rey
10-03-2011, 11:07 PM
Nolan also got beat on a would be TD if Ben would have made a half decent throw.

Right, but much like Jason Allen he has shown the ability to make plays and get his hands on balls.

Everyone in the league gets beat. Some more than others.

But I'm willing to watch Allen or Nolan get beat if they can make plays in between. By biggest issue with Kareem is that he doesn't make impact plays. Him getting beat doesn't bother me nearly as much as him rarely making plays on the ball.

But Kareem is a good tackler and he's physical. He does have some talent, but at this point I think he should split time with Allen at a minimum.

sportfan73
10-03-2011, 11:40 PM
Didn't that play start with 19sec left?

Who thinks PIT could have even spiked the ball 60+ yards down the field? Let's say the catch is made at like 12sec, they gotta get 5 300lb lineman all the way down there? Would have been close.

TdotTexas2Step
10-04-2011, 01:16 AM
I'm thinking the play involved Allen and a trailing Nolan because Joseph and Manning were shading Wallace?

Either way, Allen did his job and sealed the game with an athletic play. Even though he got picked on, he defended a lot of those back-shoulder throws as best as you could without actually getting a hand on it. Commentary even made note of that.

As long as we're not putting him on the other team's 1s, with a 10 yard cushion, I'm fine with Allen out on the field.

House of Pain
10-04-2011, 01:24 AM
The CB situation is really just picking your poison. JJo is the only 'complete' CB we have on the roster. You have to choose between either J. Allen or KJ. Both have glaring deficiencies but that is why Wade gets paid to put our players in a position to succeed. Wade has already fixed a good deal of issues the Texans defense has had for years in a matter of weeks. I think that by next year, we should have a dependable, deeper defense. Until then, we gotta live and die with them.

BigBull17
10-04-2011, 08:24 AM
There was a time in the 3rd Qtr where every pass went at whoever Allen was covering. Several were incomplete, no thanks to Allen. Just bad throws by Ben. The catches that were made, Allen had some help on most of those tackles.

If you want to see, go to the Steelers opening drive of the third Qtr.

Don't get me wrong, Allen played a good game, made some plays, but he is not the calbre CB you think he is.

Some of those throws were just money balls. The back shoulder stuff is VERY hard to stop if the qb slings it like Ben does. Allen had a pretty good game overall.

GP
10-04-2011, 10:56 AM
I worry about you.

You should be worried about the fans here who think a player should be calculating or thumbing through a "Do I bat it down, or do I catch it?" instructional manual during a critical play at the end of a game.

I'm just fine. I want DBs catching the ball, not deflecting it and giving the WR a chance to catch it. 24/7/365.

Chance_C
10-04-2011, 11:12 AM
You should be worried about the fans here who think a player should be calculating or thumbing through a "Do I bat it down, or do I catch it?" instructional manual during a critical play at the end of a game.

I'm just fine. I want DBs catching the ball, not deflecting it and giving the WR a chance to catch it. 24/7/365.


I reckon he's worried because you needlessly injected your opinion into yet another thread. Good day.

drunkcookie
10-04-2011, 11:46 AM
Speaking of Jason Allen, do you guys think his hit on Ward fell under the "defenseless receiver" rule?

With the way things are going this year, such as the two on Manning, i was really shocked that yellow didn't hit the field... I'm wondering if Ward's hard-hitting past had anything to do with a no-call...

I'm not getting down on Allen for the hit or anything, because i hate the rule... just a thought....

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

Norg
10-04-2011, 12:04 PM
to bad the coaches are not going to give up on Jackson Yet no way a 1st round pick stays on bench for long

jtexas
10-04-2011, 12:50 PM
to bad the coaches are not going to give up on Jackson Yet no way a 1st round pick stays on bench for long

He will probably be brought along the way he should have last season. Work his way up to a starter or potentially get cut.

Fico
10-04-2011, 01:07 PM
Right, but much like Jason Allen he has shown the ability to make plays and get his hands on balls.

Everyone in the league gets beat. Some more than others.

But I'm willing to watch Allen or Nolan get beat if they can make plays in between. By biggest issue with Kareem is that he doesn't make impact plays. Him getting beat doesn't bother me nearly as much as him rarely making plays on the ball.

But Kareem is a good tackler and he's physical. He does have some talent, but at this point I think he should split time with Allen at a minimum.

I don't post much on this board for a variety of reasons however, this is an excellent post.

Allen is a #2 CB and Nolan is a #3 Safety they will get passes thrown on them and completed. They will give up plays and by the presence of Manning, Joseph, and Quinn, Nolan and Allen will be targeted as they are the lesser talents of the 5.

All that being said both of these guys regularly make plays on the football. They get turnovers and in today's NFL to have a successful defense you must force turnovers. Period.

KJ should be nothing more than the 3rd CB on this team, and only be on the field in Dime situations. Our current Nickel package is fine with Quinn dropping down over the slot. Once KJ starts making plays on the ball to go along with his propensity to give up multiple plays a game then we can revisit the subject on whether he should be starting or not.

The Pencil Neck
10-04-2011, 02:53 PM
Speaking of Jason Allen, do you guys think his hit on Ward fell under the "defenseless receiver" rule?

With the way things are going this year, such as the two on Manning, i was really shocked that yellow didn't hit the field... I'm wondering if Ward's hard-hitting past had anything to do with a no-call...

I'm not getting down on Allen for the hit or anything, because i hate the rule... just a thought....

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

I expected a penalty on that play. The "defenseless receiver" rules are so broad that they could have thrown the flag. But I've seen a lot of hits on receivers this season that by the new rules should have been flagged but weren't.

We dodged a bullet there.

EllisUnit
10-04-2011, 04:07 PM
I expected a penalty on that play. The "defenseless receiver" rules are so broad that they could have thrown the flag. But I've seen a lot of hits on receivers this season that by the new rules should have been flagged but weren't.

We dodged a bullet there.

i think the rules are different if u are behind the WR and you are trying to break up the pass.

The Pencil Neck
10-04-2011, 04:30 PM
i think the rules are different if u are behind the WR and you are trying to break up the pass.

The way the rules are written, if you hit the receiver when he's during the process of making the catch, they can throw the flag. If you hit the receiver to try to break up the reception, that is a violation of the new rules.

I posted the video from the NFL describing the rules changes during the pre-season.

They suck. Luckily, they're not getting called to the letter of the rule.

EllisUnit
10-04-2011, 05:22 PM
The way the rules are written, if you hit the receiver when he's during the process of making the catch, they can throw the flag. If you hit the receiver to try to break up the reception, that is a violation of the new rules.

I posted the video from the NFL describing the rules changes during the pre-season.

They suck. Luckily, they're not getting called to the letter of the rule.

so basically u have to allow WRs to make catches and can contest it uless you defend/int the pass, well that is DUMB AS Hell.

GP
10-04-2011, 06:43 PM
I reckon he's worried because you needlessly injected your opinion into yet another thread. Good day.

Oh, thanks for clearing that up. I was using sarcasm by the way. I knew what he was saying.

WHOOSH!!!!!!! right over your head.

Maddict5
10-04-2011, 06:50 PM
not a chance allen wouldve or shouldve gotten flagged for that hit. led with shoulder into small of the back.


mannings penalties were called because he was hitting around the wrs head area (which is what the defenseless receiver rule is there for) even if they were soft ones because he led with the shoulder and didnt rly even connect with the wrs head in the end

The Pencil Neck
10-05-2011, 04:10 PM
not a chance allen wouldve or shouldve gotten flagged for that hit. led with shoulder into small of the back.

That's actually against the new rules.

Doesn't matter if you hit with your helmet or your shoulder. If he's in the act of catching the ball, you can't touch him.

Until the receiver catches the ball and secures it and starts moving upfield with an opportunity to defend himself, they can throw the flag.

If you catch the ball and start to turn upfield and someone levels you, the refs can throw the flag.

And whatever you do, do NOT leave your feet to "launch" yourself into the guy. That's automatic.

El Tejano
10-05-2011, 04:31 PM
Well all I know is Jackson doesn't make both of the plays Allen made. Yes I know he caused a fumble and that is good but I'm talking on a pure coverage standpoint.

Rey
10-05-2011, 04:47 PM
That's actually against the new rules.

Doesn't matter if you hit with your helmet or your shoulder. If he's in the act of catching the ball, you can't touch him.

Until the receiver catches the ball and secures it and starts moving upfield with an opportunity to defend himself, they can throw the flag.

If you catch the ball and start to turn upfield and someone levels you, the refs can throw the flag.

And whatever you do, do NOT leave your feet to "launch" yourself into the guy. That's automatic.


Honestly, I haven't seen hits like Allen's flagged.

Now if there was some kind of helmet hit or "hit" in question then I see and expect the flag to come out.

I did not expect a flag on the Allen play at all.

infantrycak
10-05-2011, 05:17 PM
That's actually against the new rules.

Honestly, I haven't seen hits like Allen's flagged.

From what I have seen you are both correct. The rule technically says you have to let him catch it but that isn't how it is getting enforced most of the time.

In theory doesn't the new rule if applied literally virtually eliminate last year's rule change about forcing WR's out of bounds?

The Pencil Neck
10-05-2011, 05:50 PM
Honestly, I haven't seen hits like Allen's flagged.

Now if there was some kind of helmet hit or "hit" in question then I see and expect the flag to come out.

I did not expect a flag on the Allen play at all.

Right now, the refs are not consistently or even occasionally calling the penalty to the letter of the rule. After listening to the NFL's explanation of what the new rules were, I was expecting a ton of penalties given the loose wording but the refs are really calling it pretty close to the old rules at this point.

Texanmike02
10-05-2011, 06:01 PM
Its funny about that rule change. Madden, on his game, used to talk about separating the receiver from the ball. He doesn't say that anymore. Might be unrelated because they have new announcers but it was really the only intelligent comment he made in the game.

Mike

BigBull17
10-06-2011, 09:58 AM
Speaking of Jason Allen, do you guys think his hit on Ward fell under the "defenseless receiver" rule?

With the way things are going this year, such as the two on Manning, i was really shocked that yellow didn't hit the field... I'm wondering if Ward's hard-hitting past had anything to do with a no-call...

I'm not getting down on Allen for the hit or anything, because i hate the rule... just a thought....

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

I thought so at the time, but he did a few things that made the refs not throw a flag. He hit him at the same time the ball got there. He came nowhere near the head, he hit him with his chest instead of his helmet or shoulder, and he hit him in the back, not the chin.

drunkcookie
10-06-2011, 10:07 AM
I thought so at the time, but he did a few things that made the refs not throw a flag. He hit him at the same time the ball got there. He came nowhere near the head, he hit him with his chest instead of his helmet or shoulder, and he hit him in the back, not the chin.

Oh i agree, it was a great hit and should be a legal one... But it seems the rule may allow for a penalty with it, and it needs to be changed... Something tells me if that were a Welker or Fitzgerald it may have drawn yellow...


Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

jtexas
10-06-2011, 01:36 PM
That's actually against the new rules.

Doesn't matter if you hit with your helmet or your shoulder. If he's in the act of catching the ball, you can't touch him.

Until the receiver catches the ball and secures it and starts moving upfield with an opportunity to defend himself, they can throw the flag.

If you catch the ball and start to turn upfield and someone levels you, the refs can throw the flag.

And whatever you do, do NOT leave your feet to "launch" yourself into the guy. That's automatic.

I thought the rule was, if someone acts hurt you throw a flag?

BigBull17
10-06-2011, 02:13 PM
Basically, they want it like this:

Allen: "Mr. Ward, could you do me a solid and drop the ball? I'm supose to prevent you from scoring."
Ward: "**** off."
Allen: "Awwww, shucks."

Chance_C
10-06-2011, 06:00 PM
WHOOSH!!!!!!! right over your head.


Not exactly...Sarcasm or not you still injected the same old same old needlessly. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Have a great weekend!!