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View Full Version : Mario FREAKING WILLIAMS....


BullNation4Life
10-02-2011, 03:21 PM
just wanted to post that he showed up in a BIG game in a BIG time and it wasn't Monday or Thursday night...

Congrats Mario...

EllisUnit
10-02-2011, 03:22 PM
agree he was all over the place.

TexansForTheW
10-02-2011, 03:22 PM
He had a stretch, basically second half, that he looked unblockable.

DocBar
10-02-2011, 03:23 PM
Still happily eating crow...:tiphat:

Joeycharp89
10-02-2011, 03:24 PM
Loved seeing him get that solo tackle on Ben, just beautiful.

badboy
10-02-2011, 03:41 PM
I had posted in another thread that I was going to focus on him and he stepped up. Biggest game from him in a big game in long time. Does this resolve everything for me? No but it sure helps. I want him to continue his outstanding play even if he does not get the stats. On one play I jumped up shouting Mario! and the couple I was eating with said "he did not sack R." He sure shook him up and made him bust out of pocket.

Fox
10-02-2011, 03:44 PM
Despite all the hate he's receiving from some folks on this MB, he's putting together the start of a pro bowl season through 4 games.

HJam72
10-02-2011, 03:44 PM
Despite all the hate he's receiving from some folks on this MB, he's putting together the start of a pro bowl season through 4 games.

Exactly.

The Cush
10-02-2011, 03:53 PM
One of the biggest SMH moments from the game (not counting the ones that the refs threw flags at which eliminates 70% of the game), was the 3rd and 15 and Wade calls for Mario to drop back into coverage. It was like we wanted to put out there on tape how cute we can get with our new linebacker. Let him get after the QB on passing downs!!!

jaayteetx
10-02-2011, 03:54 PM
Sapp was singing his praises on the NFL network this morning...good call Warren.

fiasco west
10-02-2011, 03:55 PM
Was it just me or did Mario seem more emotional this game? Before it he was jumping around amped up and even during some plays he seemed excited to be on the field.

Maybe I was just looking too much into it. He definitely was a beast and if Andre is out we are going to need Cushing, Mario, Ryans to step up big time.

Mr teX
10-02-2011, 03:56 PM
I had posted in another thread that I was going to focus on him and he stepped up. Biggest game from him in a big game in long time. Does this resolve everything for me? No but it sure helps. I want him to continue his outstanding play even if he does not get the stats. On one play I jumped up shouting Mario! and the couple I was eating with said "he did not sack R." He sure shook him up and made him bust out of pocket.

i've been focused on mario every game pretty much since we took him in 2006. the guy has always gotten a raw deal from fans on this mb. having a big game today doesnt change my opinion b/c to me he's always been a very good player for us imo....even when he doesn't show up in the stat column.

Surreal McCoy
10-02-2011, 03:59 PM
Mario showed big, in a big game - I'll have my crow served well done, please!

TexansBull
10-02-2011, 04:04 PM
Whoa people. We don't want him to get the wrong impression here. The dude had a good day because he saw his favorite color today - pink.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84418&highlight=mario+sucks

ObsiWan
10-02-2011, 04:07 PM
Stat Line:
5 tackles, 4 of them solo
2 tackles for loss
2 sacks
2 QB hits

Nice days work young fellow
:tiphat:

The Cush
10-02-2011, 04:07 PM
i've been focused on mario every game pretty much since we took him in 2006. the guy has always gotten a raw deal from fans on this mb. having a big game today doesnt change my opinion b/c to me he's always been a very good player for us imo....even when he doesn't show up in the stat column.

Amen to everything you said. People expect him to get a sack in every game but that just doesn't happen (Antonio is doing a nice job breaking that trend). Dwight Freeney got absolutely shut out against us and he too goes through stretches where he is sackless but no one in Indy rips him like Mario gets ripped. Other teams have Pro-bowlers protecting their QB but because Mario is OUR Pro-bowler, he has to win those match ups every time or he might as well bend over and expect a prison raping on the message boards.

beerlover
10-02-2011, 04:10 PM
Mario is blowing up, so glad his knee is A-OK just saw the best commercial, thought I would share it if you haven't seen it already or just want to see it again - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_LBsL8lXsI

Hardcore Texan
10-02-2011, 04:10 PM
Stat Line:
5 tackles, 4 of them solo
2 tackles for loss
2 sacks
2 QB hits

Nice days work young fellow
:tiphat:

He was going up against a patch work o-line but he did look excellent today all around.

BullNation4Life
10-02-2011, 04:11 PM
Stat Line:
5 tackles, 4 of them solo
2 tackles for loss
2 sacks
2 QB hits

Nice days work young fellow
:tiphat:

and was around the QB on 2 other sacks....

Like what I am seeing from a 4-3 DE who is "way to big to play OLB and needs to be traded"....:rolleyes:

JamesBill
10-02-2011, 04:12 PM
Dude has the strongest hands I have ever seen. Once he gets a hand on someone, they are done.

BullNation4Life
10-02-2011, 04:14 PM
He was going up against a patch work o-line but he did look excellent today all around.

Well then to the Steelers...


SORRY ABOUT YOUR DAMN LUCK!

love how folks have to try and find a "reason" Mario was successful...:rolleyes:

ObsiWan
10-02-2011, 04:16 PM
He was going up against a patch work o-line but he did look excellent today all around.

yeah, and he's playing thru a hyperextended knee injury (from last game) and groin issues (identified at the end of preseason)...
what's yer point?
:cow:

Trap_Star
10-02-2011, 04:19 PM
need it on a consistent basis. now he can't go and disappear against the raiders.

The Cush
10-02-2011, 04:25 PM
Well then to the Steelers...


SORRY ABOUT YOUR DAMN LUCK!

love how folks have to try and find a "reason" Mario was successful...:rolleyes:

Haha seriously. It's just easy to be a Negative Nancy..

Hater mentality when Mario has a horrible game: "Worst player ever! He went against a patchwork O-Line"
Hater mentality when Mario has a great game like today" "But he was going against a patchwork O-Line!"

welsh texan
10-02-2011, 04:42 PM
I was impressed with the entire pass rush today, we can try and say it was a patchwork O-line all we want but in truth there have been times in the not too distant past where they would have gone against a patchwork O-line and still not shown up.

You can only beat whats in front of you and they beat them thoroughly today.

Here's hoping Mario can keep up the pace and get double digit sacks this season, that would go a long way towards putting us in the playoffs.

gary
10-02-2011, 04:43 PM
Where is Dale?

TexansForTheW
10-02-2011, 04:44 PM
Could anyone photoshop Mario Williams as one of the guys from Mortal Combat(the guy who yells get over here)

I could just envision Mario saying "Get over here" when he had a handful of BigBens jersey.

BullNation4Life
10-02-2011, 04:45 PM
Where is Dale?

he will be along soon enough with his Mario Williams flame blog about how Mario went up against a rookie and a patch work O-line and blah, blah freaking blah....

HTown2ATX
10-02-2011, 04:49 PM
Mario = BEAST /end

76Texan
10-02-2011, 04:57 PM
i've been focused on mario every game pretty much since we took him in 2006. the guy has always gotten a raw deal from fans on this mb. having a big game today doesnt change my opinion b/c to me he's always been a very good player for us imo....even when he doesn't show up in the stat column.

Same here!

76Texan
10-02-2011, 04:59 PM
yeah, and he's playing thru a hyperextended knee injury (from last game) and groin issues (identified at the end of preseason)...
what's yer point?
:cow:

That's a lot of excuses! Sarcasm emoticon here, please, LOL!

Rey
10-02-2011, 05:23 PM
I don't understand how anyone could have been down on Mario coming into this game.

The Cush
10-02-2011, 05:29 PM
I think we banged up Big Ben too much. He's in a walking boot and they just so happen to play the Titans next week

EllisUnit
10-02-2011, 05:31 PM
I think we banged up Big Ben too much. He's in a walking boot and they just so happen to play the Titans next week

i hope he eats his veggies drinks his V8 and they stomp the titans next week :)

hradhak
10-02-2011, 05:53 PM
Mario's on pace to have a 16 sack season. He really played outstanding today and I can't imagine how sick this team will be when JJ Watt learns wrap up his guy. Antonio Smith already looks like a pro bowler. This defensive line is shaping up to be one of the best in the NFL

DocBar
10-02-2011, 05:56 PM
Mario's on pace to have a 16 sack season. He really played outstanding today and I can't imagine how sick this team will be when JJ Watt learns wrap up his guy. Antonio Smith already looks like a pro bowler. This defensive line is shaping up to be one of the best in the NFLExcept for that whole rushing defense thingy.

chicagotexan2
10-02-2011, 06:01 PM
Still happily eating crow...:tiphat:

Me too in fact I'm having leftover crow tacos tomorrow

badboy
10-02-2011, 06:16 PM
Haha seriously. It's just easy to be a Negative Nancy..

Hater mentality when Mario has a horrible game: "Worst player ever! He went against a patchwork O-Line"
Hater mentality when Mario has a great game like today" "But he was going against a patchwork O-Line!"Why can't it just be the truth? How about Mario has an excellent in spite of his injuries and even if against a makeshift Oline? He had exactly the type game I wanted to see. You should have seen me jumping around my friends living room yelling Mario! I even did my famous "kickoff" and almost busted my A.

Hardcore Texan
10-02-2011, 06:37 PM
Well then to the Steelers...


SORRY ABOUT YOUR DAMN LUCK!

love how folks have to try and find a "reason" Mario was successful...:rolleyes:

yeah, and he's playing thru a hyperextended knee injury (from last game) and groin issues (identified at the end of preseason)...
what's yer point?
:cow:

You guys are too quick to rush to judgement. I am a huge Mario fan, I was just pointing out the condition of that 0-line. Am I wrong? I also went on to say Mario had an excellent game.

thunderkyss
10-02-2011, 06:37 PM
Dude has the strongest hands I have ever seen. Once he gets a hand on someone, they are done.

I'll give you that. I've never seen anyone one-hand Big Ben & manage to bring him down solo


BEAST....

BullNation4Life
10-02-2011, 06:51 PM
You guys are too quick to rush to judgement. I am a huge Mario fan, I was just pointing out the condition of that 0-line. Am I wrong? I also went on to say Mario had an excellent game.

sorry bro, I know a backhanded complement when I see one....

might as well just said, "Mario had an excellent game BUT he DID go against a patch work O-line so it really doesn't count..."

oh wait, that is what you basically said...

4x4tx
10-02-2011, 07:51 PM
I hated on his last week, he played great today. Hope to see it every week!

PHAROAH
10-02-2011, 07:53 PM
The front 7 is creating havoc!!!!! Great Job Super Mario

Hardcore Texan
10-02-2011, 09:58 PM
sorry bro, I know a backhanded complement when I see one....

might as well just said, "Mario had an excellent game BUT he DID go against a patch work O-line so it really doesn't count..."

oh wait, that is what you basically said...

You couldn't be more wrong.......

Corrosion
10-02-2011, 10:22 PM
Except for that whole rushing defense thingy.

When you get right down to it , thats a scheme issue asking the DE's and DT's to shoot gaps rather than plug gaps .... You are going to get to the QB more but you will also give up a lot of yards on the ground - especially if the ILB's are out of position.

With as much pressure as they can put on opposing QB's , I can live with giving up a few on the ground. (as long as they are getting off the field on 3rd down).

DocBar
10-02-2011, 10:44 PM
When you get right down to it , thats a scheme issue asking the DE's and DT's to shoot gaps rather than plug gaps .... You are going to get to the QB more but you will also give up a lot of yards on the ground - especially if the ILB's are out of position.

With as much pressure as they can put on opposing QB's , I can live with giving up a few on the ground. (as long as they are getting off the field on 3rd down).Those two are almost mutually exclusive, especially against better running teams. Giving up big chunks of yardage in the running game is not very conducive to 3 and outs.

Rey
10-02-2011, 10:55 PM
Those two are almost mutually exclusive, especially against better running teams. Giving up big chunks of yardage in the running game is not very conducive to 3 and outs.

If you make plays against a teams's passing attack you will likely win the game.

Unlike the NFL of yesteryear, teams rarely run their way to victories.

Running when you need to ice the clock and being able to run in the redzone

You can win without a great running game. It's extremely hard to win if you can't pass.

The texans have done well against the pass this year. We had a bad quarter against breed but other than that our ability to make plays when teams pass the ball is what has helped us win games.

SAMURAITEXAN
10-02-2011, 11:07 PM
I am so excited by Mario's success at OLB position so far. Seems to me, he gets better each game. Just imagine, how good he will be by end of this season.

Go Texans!!!

mussop
10-02-2011, 11:27 PM
This board is like a roller coaster. When he does anything the jock riders will proclaim he had a great game and is heading to the pro-bowl and when he doesn't have a big play the haters will proclaim he sucks and we need to trade him. :slapfight:

Mario had a good, not great, a good game against another rookie LT and a beat up short handed OL. He played the run really well. He came up with a big play late in the game when we really needed it. Kudos to him and I hope he starts showing improvement every week and becomes what some of you already think he is.

But until he develops some technique and becomes a real threat that defenses have to account for by consistently gets pressure on the QB, he will be an average OLB. That is where some like me have a problem. We are not haters, we just think he would be better used on the line where IMO his talents and abilities would be better utilized. Look at what Smith has been able to do in this scheme. Imagine him on one side and Mario on the other. Now add in a blazer off the edge (Reed) and you have a scary, scary front seven.

Overall the whole front played well today and really got to Big Ben in the end. But like it or not it was against a pathetic OL that hasn't played well all year. So they did what they were supposed to do but it still remains to be seen if they can do it against a good healthy OL.

In the big picture Mario has played decent but not what you would expect from the number one overall pick and a guy that is going to demand a top ten contract that is going to take a huge chunk of our cap space. There is still alot of games to be played and who knows maybe he will earn that big contract.

If he doesn't start showing dominating performances soon though Phillips should at least consider moving him back to DE and see what he is capable of. That is all I'm saying.

Rey
10-02-2011, 11:49 PM
Mario plays against the same o line that his teammates play against and he plays against the same o-lines that that 16 other teams play against. . . Yet the caliber of player he is matched up on is constantly a point of debate.

Are we going to discount or lessen the impact if a sack anytime any player isn't going against a pro bowler or bonafide pass blocker?

Wow, I guess I'll let you guys go through all the games and decide which guys sacks "really" count.

Every team we've gone against we've kept their edge rushers in check. Harrison was invisible, but if Mario has a game like that he's not giving it his all or is just not good enough to consistently make an impact.

Do you guys watch other teams? Plenty of the "dominant" pass rushers have games where they don't make an impact and when they do get sacks sometimes they come against air, rb's, te's or bad o linemen.

I remember in pre season folks went gaga for reed after he had a good game. I see some of those same folks talking about the blocking Mario sees but completely ignored the fact that reed's sacks came against 1) backups 2) air 3) a rb.

Mario has made an impact in every game except one. Two sacks against Indy, deflection leading to int in Mia, two sacks in clutch moments against Pittsburgh.

But yeah. Mario sucks and we should maybe trade him for picks. Or a pizza hut pizza.

The Cush
10-03-2011, 12:00 AM
This board is like a roller coaster. When he does anything the jock riders will proclaim he had a great game and is heading to the pro-bowl and when he doesn't have a big play the haters will proclaim he sucks and we need to trade him. :slapfight:

Mario had a good, not great, a good game against another rookie LT and a beat up short handed OL. He played the run really well. He came up with a big play late in the game when we really needed it. Kudos to him and I hope he starts showing improvement every week and becomes what some of you already think he is.

But until he develops some technique and becomes a real threat that defenses have to account for by consistently gets pressure on the QB, he will be an average OLB. That is where some like me have a problem. We are not haters, we just think he would be better used on the line where IMO his talents and abilities would be better utilized. Look at what Smith has been able to do in this scheme. Imagine him on one side and Mario on the other. Now add in a blazer off the edge (Reed) and you have a scary, scary front seven.

Overall the whole front played well today and really got to Big Ben in the end. But like it or not it was against a pathetic OL that hasn't played well all year. So they did what they were supposed to do but it still remains to be seen if they can do it against a good healthy OL.

In the big picture Mario has played decent but not what you would expect from the number one overall pick and a guy that is going to demand a top ten contract that is going to take a huge chunk of our cap space. There is still alot of games to be played and who knows maybe he will earn that big contract.

If he doesn't start showing dominating performances soon though Phillips should at least consider moving him back to DE and see what he is capable of. That is all I'm saying.

I'm just curious but what more could he have done to have a "great" game? He had 2 registered sacks, pressured and flushed Ben out of the pocket at least 3 other times (Ben made some great plays to escape, but that's what he does, escapes sticky situations pun intended), and had a key run stop late in the game for a loss of 1 or 2 yards. He's on pace for 16 sacks. If you move him back to DE, and wade stays in the 3-4 then where does Watt go? Smith isn't going to the bench he's playing lights out. And who takes his spot at OLB...Brooks Reed? He hasn't shown anything at all during the regular season except that he's a rookie who still needs seasoning.

Rey
10-03-2011, 12:03 AM
I'm just curious but what more could he have done to have a "great" game? .

Mario should get a minimum of 3 sacks an outing. After finding a cure for the common cold.

mussop
10-03-2011, 12:15 AM
But yeah. Mario sucks and we should maybe trade him for picks. Or a pizza hut pizza.

I haven't seen anyone say anything even close to that. Seems like you are too defensive with you're opinions. I haven't seen one real negative post in this whole thread about Mario. Seems like you take what other people say and distort it if it doesn't jive 100% with what you think.

fiasco west
10-03-2011, 12:17 AM
Mario plays against the same o line that his teammates play against and he plays against the same o-lines that that 16 other teams play against. . . Yet the caliber of player he is matched up on is constantly a point of debate.

Are we going to discount or lessen the impact if a sack anytime any player isn't going against a pro bowler or bonafide pass blocker?

Wow, I guess I'll let you guys go through all the games and decide which guys sacks "really" count.

Every team we've gone against we've kept their edge rushers in check. Harrison was invisible, but if Mario has a game like that he's not giving it his all or is just not good enough to consistently make an impact.

Do you guys watch other teams? Plenty of the "dominant" pass rushers have games where they don't make an impact and when they do get sacks sometimes they come against air, rb's, te's or bad o linemen.

I remember in pre season folks went gaga for reed after he had a good game. I see some of those same folks talking about the blocking Mario sees but completely ignored the fact that reed's sacks came against 1) backups 2) air 3) a rb.

Mario has made an impact in every game except one. Two sacks against Indy, deflection leading to int in Mia, two sacks in clutch moments against Pittsburgh.

But yeah. Mario sucks and we should maybe trade him for picks. Or a pizza hut pizza.

Yep. The level of Competition that Mario goes against seems to always be bought up.

"Oh he got that sack against a TE." or "This was a really bad Oline."

The players in the NFL are good. Andre is not racking up his stats against Revis and Aso. He's racking up his stats against the crappy and average corners in the league and having a great battle for every yard with the likes of Revis.

Freeney racked up a couple a sacks last week against the Steelers bad oline and no one questions him dominating a game.

Rey
10-03-2011, 12:23 AM
I haven't seen anyone say anything even close to that. Seems like you are too defensive with you're opinions. I haven't seen one real negative post in this whole thread about Mario. Seems like you take what other people say and distort it if it doesn't jive 100% with what you think.

Do you know what hyperbole is?

Lots of guys (or gals?) taking themselves to seriously on the message board.

Did I even quote you?

Maybe you are the one that is defensive?

mussop
10-03-2011, 12:58 AM
I'm just curious but what more could he have done to have a "great" game? He had 2 registered sacks, pressured and flushed Ben out of the pocket at least 3 other times (Ben made some great plays to escape, but that's what he does, escapes sticky situations pun intended), and had a key run stop late in the game for a loss of 1 or 2 yards. He's on pace for 16 sacks. If you move him back to DE, and wade stays in the 3-4 then where does Watt go? Smith isn't going to the bench he's playing lights out. And who takes his spot at OLB...Brooks Reed? He hasn't shown anything at all during the regular season except that he's a rookie who still needs seasoning.

:) the bolded.

Everyone has their own definition of what great game means. I'm not even going to bother. IMO he had a really good game against the run and a good game rushing the passer. I do factor in who he went against because its relative. He is on pace to get 16 sacks but lets wait to see what he does against a quality starter before we proclaim him a pro-bowler. Well at least I will.

As far as who I would replace it would be Watts at DE but only to move him over to NT. So in reality it would be Cody that he would be replacing. And yes it would be Reed that would replace Mario at OLB. Again if Smith can play lights out in this scheme as you pointed out don't you think Mario could do at least the same if not better at the DE position in this scheme? Move him inside and now teams have two guys that they have to worry about busting through inside gaps and getting penetration up the middle. That would open up the outside rush for a player that is a bullet off the line.

Normally I would agree that Reed is a rookie and needs seasoning, but again in this scheme at that particular OLB position the primary responsibility is to get off the edge and get after the QB. It doesn't take a rocket scientist play the position. In fact of all the positions on this defense that one is the one that a rookie can come in and have a huge impact on right away the easiest. Factor that in with Mario's presence inside and it makes it even easier.

Not saying we should do it now but if Mario doesn't show to be a consistent dominating force on the outside we should at least give him the chance to be on the inside. I just think he is to talented to leave at a position where he is playing average when he is taylor made for another position where it appears he could dominate.

mussop
10-03-2011, 01:01 AM
Do you know what hyperbole is?

Yes its what you do everytime Mario gets a sack.

Did I even quote you?

Did I say you quoted me?

Maybe you are the one that is defensive?

Meowwwww!

rush2112mn
10-03-2011, 02:03 AM
My Pic next to my user name says it for me......what a freak....and some people thought we should have traded him.....lol.....Super freakin Mario....great game.....

Rey
10-03-2011, 06:58 AM
Yes its what you do everytime Mario gets a sack.
!

Well, I certainly don't know your posting pattern but I guess it's nice to have followers:shrug:

BigBull17
10-03-2011, 07:59 AM
:) the bolded.

Everyone has their own definition of what great game means. I'm not even going to bother. IMO he had a really good game against the run and a good game rushing the passer. I do factor in who he went against because its relative. He is on pace to get 16 sacks but lets wait to see what he does against a quality starter before we proclaim him a pro-bowler. Well at least I will.

As far as who I would replace it would be Watts at DE but only to move him over to NT. So in reality it would be Cody that he would be replacing. And yes it would be Reed that would replace Mario at OLB. Again if Smith can play lights out in this scheme as you pointed out don't you think Mario could do at least the same if not better at the DE position in this scheme? Move him inside and now teams have two guys that they have to worry about busting through inside gaps and getting penetration up the middle. That would open up the outside rush for a player that is a bullet off the line.

Normally I would agree that Reed is a rookie and needs seasoning, but again in this scheme at that particular OLB position the primary responsibility is to get off the edge and get after the QB. It doesn't take a rocket scientist play the position. In fact of all the positions on this defense that one is the one that a rookie can come in and have a huge impact on right away the easiest. Factor that in with Mario's presence inside and it makes it even easier.

Not saying we should do it now but if Mario doesn't show to be a consistent dominating force on the outside we should at least give him the chance to be on the inside. I just think he is to talented to leave at a position where he is playing average when he is taylor made for another position where it appears he could dominate.

Brooks Reed has look borderline awful this year. No thanks. Mario is doing fine, so why move him?

Blake
10-03-2011, 08:25 AM
The front 7 is creating havoc!!!!! Great Job Super Mario

Thanks Brah

Mr teX
10-03-2011, 09:17 AM
This board is like a roller coaster. When he does anything the jock riders will proclaim he had a great game and is heading to the pro-bowl and when he doesn't have a big play the haters will proclaim he sucks and we need to trade him. :slapfight:

Mario had a good, not great, a good game against another rookie LT and a beat up short handed OL. He played the run really well. He came up with a big play late in the game when we really needed it. Kudos to him and I hope he starts showing improvement every week and becomes what some of you already think he is.

But until he develops some technique and becomes a real threat that defenses have to account for by consistently gets pressure on the QB, he will be an average OLB. That is where some like me have a problem. We are not haters, we just think he would be better used on the line where IMO his talents and abilities would be better utilized. Look at what Smith has been able to do in this scheme. Imagine him on one side and Mario on the other. Now add in a blazer off the edge (Reed) and you have a scary, scary front seven.

Overall the whole front played well today and really got to Big Ben in the end. But like it or not it was against a pathetic OL that hasn't played well all year. So they did what they were supposed to do but it still remains to be seen if they can do it against a good healthy OL.

In the big picture Mario has played decent but not what you would expect from the number one overall pick and a guy that is going to demand a top ten contract that is going to take a huge chunk of our cap space. There is still alot of games to be played and who knows maybe he will earn that big contract.

If he doesn't start showing dominating performances soon though Phillips should at least consider moving him back to DE and see what he is capable of. That is all I'm saying.


:rolleyes:....u think clay matthews is a great OLB right? show me a dominating performance he's had this year.

What did Demarcus Ware do yesterday as he watched his defense choke away a 24 pt. lead? I'll give you a hint..what's 0 + 0?

You simply are not going to a get "dominating" performance every week from these kinds of guys b/c there's too much attention paid to them on a week to week basis...there's a reason all of them say sacks come in bunches....why can't you guys understand that?

& if 2 sacks, 3-4 qb pressures & a few other TFLs isn't a great game, then you obviously don't know what a great game is.

El Tejano
10-03-2011, 09:20 AM
Until further notice, The Mario Williams Sucks thread should always remain in tact.

HOU-TEX
10-03-2011, 09:38 AM
Mario had a good game, as did Barwin. There's one position that might not receive the accolades the OLB's do. The MLBs. D-Ryans played well, but Cushing was all over the place. He was in on the tackle seemingly every dang play.

Congrats to the front 7. Save Joseph, I still think our defensive backfield is average at best.

mussop
10-03-2011, 10:29 AM
:rolleyes:....u think clay matthews is a great OLB right? show me a dominating performance he's had this year.

What did Demarcus Ware do yesterday as he watched his defense choke away a 24 pt. lead? I'll give you a hint..what's 0 + 0?

You simply are not going to a get "dominating" performance every week from these kinds of guys b/c there's too much attention paid to them on a week to week basis...there's a reason all of them say sacks come in bunches....why can't you guys understand that?

& if 2 sacks, 3-4 qb pressures & a few other TFLs isn't a great game, then you obviously don't know what a great game is.


Clay Matthews gets double and triple teamed nearly every play. Demarcus Ware, I couldn't tell you because I hate the Cowpatiies to much to watch them. The point is that Mario is a number one overall pick and we need him playing where he can be the most disruptive.

Look at what Smith has been able to do so far. Who would you say has been more important to this defense this year, Mario or Smith? If you say Mario then this conversation is over. Mario is twice the athlete Smith is. He could do at least as good as Smith shooting the inside gaps. If you have 2 guys like that inside all we need from the OLB spot is an explosive edge rusher.

Again I don't think this move is something we should do right now. We are winning and Mario is still learning the position. Im just saying that if he doesn't start winning more one on one battles especially against weaker non starters like he has gone up against the first four weeks, then it should be considered.

Ole Miss Texan
10-03-2011, 10:39 AM
Clay Matthews gets double and triple teamed nearly every play.
I'm sorry but I think the term double/triple teamed gets grossly over used. CMIII is in 1-on-1 battles with the tackle the vast majority of the game.

mussop
10-03-2011, 10:51 AM
I'm sorry but I think the term double/triple teamed gets grossly over used. CMIII is in 1-on-1 battles with the tackle the vast majority of the game.

They just had a piece on Mathews this Sunday where they broke down game film and showed Mathews getting double and triple teamed alot. They said its because GB has no one to compliment him so teams are focusing on stopping him. I'll see if I can find a link.

Mr teX
10-03-2011, 11:44 AM
Clay Matthews gets double and triple teamed nearly every play. Demarcus Ware, I couldn't tell you because I hate the Cowpatiies to much to watch them. The point is that Mario is a number one overall pick and we need him playing where he can be the most disruptive.

Look at what Smith has been able to do so far. Who would you say has been more important to this defense this year, Mario or Smith? If you say Mario then this conversation is over. Mario is twice the athlete Smith is. He could do at least as good as Smith shooting the inside gaps. If you have 2 guys like that inside all we need from the OLB spot is an explosive edge rusher.

Again I don't think this move is something we should do right now. We are winning and Mario is still learning the position. Im just saying that if he doesn't start winning more one on one battles especially against weaker non starters like he has gone up against the first four weeks, then it should be considered.

How do you know that he's not benefiting from mario standing up as the OLB on the same side as him?

I mean lets face it, Smith is on track to have double digit sacks this year........something he's never come remotely close to in his career in Arizona or here for that matter. How do you explain him all of a sudden going into beast mode 7 years into his relatively mediocore career?

No doubt some of that is b/c he's played in a 3-4 before & there is almost no learning curve with him compared to the others in the front 7...but still, how do you know that moving mario to olb didn't help to increase his level of play well above what he's capable of? U put mario back on the DL with him his "importance" may go down.

infantrycak
10-03-2011, 12:11 PM
How do you know that he's not benefiting from mario standing up as the OLB on the same side as him?

I mean lets face it, Smith is on track to have double digit sacks this year........something he's never come remotely close to in his career in Arizona or here for that matter. How do you explain him all of a sudden going into beast mode 7 years into his relatively mediocore career?

I generally agree with you. I wouldn't call Smith's career mediocre as I think he has been a borderline pro-bowl player while with the Texans and has only upped his game more this year. But having said that yeah Smith is benefiting from Mario and I don't see how that can be denied. Mario has opened up gaps in the OL and caused QB movement many times that have benefited other front seven players.

TexansForTheW
10-03-2011, 12:14 PM
How do you know that he's not benefiting from mario standing up as the OLB on the same side as him?

I mean lets face it, Smith is on track to have double digit sacks this year........something he's never come remotely close to in his career in Arizona or here for that matter. How do you explain him all of a sudden going into beast mode 7 years into his relatively mediocore career?

No doubt some of that is b/c he's played in a 3-4 before & there is almost no learning curve with him compared to the others in the front 7...but still, how do you know that moving mario to olb didn't help to increase his level of play well above what he's capable of? U put mario back on the DL with him his "importance" may go down.

I think it's a combo of Cushing's preggo pills and Smith being a Ninja.

welsh texan
10-03-2011, 12:17 PM
The thing to remember with Mario is that if you plan in enough to stop him, it opens up things on the other side. Do you think Antonio Smith is really THAT good on his own? Of course he isn't, he's just good enough that if he's 1 on 1 he will take his chances and put up the numbers.

Too many times I think Mario has been written off because to begin with there was nobody over the other side capable of taking what he gives them, and that allows even more attention to be put on him.

Now, Mario is still the feature guy, and if I'm coaching an offense Vs the Texans all I care about is stopping him first and foremost, but everyone else in the front 7 is capable of taking advantage of that. Barwin had one of the best games of his career too don't forget, he had a sack knocked off by penalty didn't he.

The Cush
10-03-2011, 12:21 PM
The thing to remember with Mario is that if you plan in enough to stop him, it opens up things on the other side. Do you think Antonio Smith is really THAT good on his own? Of course he isn't, he's just good enough that if he's 1 on 1 he will take his chances and put up the numbers.



Antonio is actually starting to become THAT good. Naturally by the position he plays, he often times takes on multiple blockers but he is becoming so fast off the ball he splits right through 2 guys before they even know whats happening. The guy is playing lights out

ziggy29
10-03-2011, 12:23 PM
Funny how you don't hear people saying they should have picked VY or Reggie Bush any more.

TimeKiller
10-03-2011, 12:24 PM
I can't wait until a monster day for a player is considered just that and doesn't inspire weak ass armchair gurus to opine on how it could've been better/different. That'll be the ****ing day.

BuffaloglennTX
10-03-2011, 12:56 PM
Mario should get a minimum of 3 sacks an outing. After finding a cure for the common cold.

And establishing world peace...

TexansForTheW
10-03-2011, 01:00 PM
And establishing world peace...

World peace has already been established as an La Laker(Ron Artest).

Vinny
10-03-2011, 01:14 PM
I generally agree with you. I wouldn't call Smith's career mediocre as I think he has been a borderline pro-bowl player while with the Texans and has only upped his game more this year. But having said that yeah Smith is benefiting from Mario and I don't see how that can be denied. Mario has opened up gaps in the OL and caused QB movement many times that have benefited other front seven players.yer right and I think he is better suited for a 3-4. Smith and Phillips are like peas and carrots. Smith is going to the Pro-Bowl this season if he keeps playing like this.

Corrosion
10-03-2011, 01:18 PM
I can't wait until a monster day for a player is considered just that and doesn't inspire weak ass armchair gurus to opine on how it could've been better/different. That'll be the ****ing day.

It was a monster day for the Texans ..... they won , thats the only stat I give a damn about.

eriadoc
10-03-2011, 01:51 PM
To paraphrase Antonio Smith: I told y'all Mario was going to be awesome.

dalemurphy
10-03-2011, 03:07 PM
I had posted in another thread that I was going to focus on him and he stepped up. Biggest game from him in a big game in long time. Does this resolve everything for me? No but it sure helps. I want him to continue his outstanding play even if he does not get the stats. On one play I jumped up shouting Mario! and the couple I was eating with said "he did not sack R." He sure shook him up and made him bust out of pocket.

He played very well, particularly in the 4th quarter. Not as well as Antonio Smith, certainly, but very well.

Seriously, Antonio Smith was awesome, Mario played great in stretches, Barwin was good, Cushing looked very good, and I thought Watt looked good as well.

This defense is fun to watch!

dalemurphy
10-03-2011, 03:10 PM
The thing to remember with Mario is that if you plan in enough to stop him, it opens up things on the other side. Do you think Antonio Smith is really THAT good on his own? Of course he isn't, he's just good enough that if he's 1 on 1 he will take his chances and put up the numbers.

Too many times I think Mario has been written off because to begin with there was nobody over the other side capable of taking what he gives them, and that allows even more attention to be put on him.

Now, Mario is still the feature guy, and if I'm coaching an offense Vs the Texans all I care about is stopping him first and foremost, but everyone else in the front 7 is capable of taking advantage of that. Barwin had one of the best games of his career too don't forget, he had a sack knocked off by penalty didn't he.

If you've watched this team the past three seasons, you know that the one player you can count on to give consistent effort and cause havoc in the backfield is Antonio Smith (ever since the midway point in 2009). Mario has played great in stretches, so has Cushing... but, Antonio Smith has been the best player on the Texans defense for about 2 full years now.

welsh texan
10-03-2011, 04:58 PM
If you've watched this team the past three seasons, you know that the one player you can count on to give consistent effort and cause havoc in the backfield is Antonio Smith (ever since the midway point in 2009). Mario has played great in stretches, so has Cushing... but, Antonio Smith has been the best player on the Texans defense for about 2 full years now.

I have, and I do. What I am saying is, Smith is really good, and seems to be improving as well, but if he didn't have MW across from him, all the effort and consistancy would not have translated into his unbelievable stats this season, and really good stats previous seasons.

I'd like to see some info on what happens when elite DE's play across from poor DE's in the same D, I bet the elite DE's production falls really bad. When people slag Mario off because he's had a game where the D has just about handled him, those are often the games when the likes of Antonio and Cush for instance have got the sacks. It just seems this season the D is cut-throat and ends up with sacks all round if the O-line is not at full strength (and that isn't a bad point, the Steelers O-line was knocked up, the D took full advantage of that. Great job!)

dalemurphy
10-03-2011, 05:32 PM
I have, and I do. What I am saying is, Smith is really good, and seems to be improving as well, but if he didn't have MW across from him, all the effort and consistancy would not have translated into his unbelievable stats this season, and really good stats previous seasons.

I'd like to see some info on what happens when elite DE's play across from poor DE's in the same D, I bet the elite DE's production falls really bad. When people slag Mario off because he's had a game where the D has just about handled him, those are often the games when the likes of Antonio and Cush for instance have got the sacks. It just seems this season the D is cut-throat and ends up with sacks all round if the O-line is not at full strength (and that isn't a bad point, the Steelers O-line was knocked up, the D took full advantage of that. Great job!)

I agree. It appears to me that we have 5 good to great players on our front 7 right now, not counting Demeco: A.Smith, Cushing, Watt, Mario, Barwin... It's a pretty good situation. Wade sure his helping with Rick Smith's reputation as a drafter.

EllisUnit
10-03-2011, 05:41 PM
I agree. It appears to me that we have 5 good to great players on our front 7 right now, not counting Demeco: A.Smith, Cushing, Watt, Mario, Barwin... It's a pretty good situation. Wade sure his helping with Rick Smith's reputation as a drafter.

its amazing what having real coaches rather than scrubs will do to make GMs look good at picking in the draft. BUT i think we can all agree, most of our front 7 has always had potential.

DocBar
10-03-2011, 06:07 PM
I agree. It appears to me that we have 5 good to great players on our front 7 right now, not counting Demeco: A.Smith, Cushing, Watt, Mario, Barwin... It's a pretty good situation. Wade sure his helping with Rick Smith's reputation as a drafter.As a side note on coaching, just take one look at Aso and the Feebles to drive that point home. In man, Aso is absolutely shut down. In zone, Aso is absolutely Petey Faggins. It's hard to estimate the effect coaching and scheme has on a player.
As far as our front 7 goes, I'm a CROW EATIN MUFF-HUGGA as far as Mario goes. Best food I ever put in my mouth right now!!
All credit gors to the good Rev. Dread Head for the muff-hugga.

dc_txtech
10-03-2011, 08:13 PM
All these guys are feeding off of each other right now. Mario opens lanes for Smith at times and Smith has been doing the same for Mario. I see a couple of trips to Hawaii in their near futures. We are so loaded with talent in the front 7 that teams cannot simply shut down one or two guys and expect to succeed against us.

Mario, Demeco, Cushing, Barwin, Smith, Watt, and Mitchell (to a lesser degree) are firing on all cylinders right now. It's been a lot of fun to watch so far and it's been a long time since I've rooted for a team with a defense that was enjoyable to watch.

Carr Bombed
10-03-2011, 09:05 PM
I have, and I do. What I am saying is, Smith is really good, and seems to be improving as well, but if he didn't have MW across from him, all the effort and consistency would not have translated into his unbelievable stats this season, and really good stats previous seasons.

I'd like to see some info on what happens when elite DE's play across from poor DE's in the same D, I bet the elite DE's production falls really bad. When people slag Mario off because he's had a game where the D has just about handled him, those are often the games when the likes of Antonio and Cush for instance have got the sacks. It just seems this season the D is cut-throat and ends up with sacks all round if the O-line is not at full strength (and that isn't a bad point, the Steelers O-line was knocked up, the D took full advantage of that. Great job!)

:vincepalm: Antonio Smith played across from Mario Williams LAST SEASON ALSO. Why didn't he have the sack #s then?


Seriously, why the hell is everyone writing off what Antonio has been able to do this year and are just trying to give all the credit for his production to Mario Williams. Frankly it's stupid. If you actually watch Antonio Smith's sacks this season, he's getting those sacks, because he's consistently winning his individual match ups WEEK IN AND WEEK OUT. He is our most consistent defender, which is exactly what he was last year as well. Hell the man is even drawing double teams and beating them...still no credit for him though, it's all Mario. :rolleyes:

The biggest improvement in Antonio's game this season lies in the fact that we finally have a defensive coach that knows what the heck he's doing and a defensive coach who has the ability to put players in the best position to succeed. People need to stop tearing a player's performance/ability down just to build another player up. There were two game balls given out to the defense this week. One went to Allen and the other to Smith. Smith is a damn good player in this league, can earn his own keep, and he's responsible for his own production. If you want to start a thread praising Mario, by all means do that...he deserves praise for his performance yesterday, but can we please stop acting like he is the only reason why Antonio is balling his ass off this season, because that simply is not the case and is disingenuous.

Does Mario Williams being on the field help Antonio...yeah it does, but guess what? Antonio Smith being on the field ALSO HELPS MARIO. Antonio Smith being on the field also helps J.J. Watt. J.J. Watt being on the field also helps Antonio Smith and Mario Williams. Heck even Connor Barwin's speed off the edge is something teams have to account for and deal with and even it is helping other players on this defense. ALL OF THESE PLAYERS BEING ON THE FIELD TOGETHER ARE HELPING EACHOTHER. That's what happens when you have talented players and a talented from 7, it all goes hand in hand. You can't just key on one player.

thunderkyss
10-03-2011, 09:08 PM
If you want to start a thread praising Mario, by all means do that...he deserves praise for his performance yesterday, but can we please stop acting like he is the only reason why Antonio is balling his ass off this season.

Isn't this the Mario FREAKING WILLIAMS thread?

:kitten:

Carr Bombed
10-03-2011, 09:12 PM
Isn't this the Mario FREAKING WILLIAMS thread?

:kitten:

Umm yeah, what's your point???

dc_txtech
10-03-2011, 09:50 PM
ALL OF THESE PLAYERS BEING ON THE FIELD TOGETHER ARE HELPING EACHOTHER.

But who helps the most? I think the world of Smith but I see Mario getting most of the attention right now. Part of that is due to the fact that Mario is playing the position he is playing, part of it has to do with Mario being a beast. I would not be surprised if teams start shifting some of that attention towards Smith in the future which is a win/win for the Texans D.

Carr Bombed
10-03-2011, 10:18 PM
But who helps the most? I think the world of Smith but I see Mario getting most of the attention right now. Part of that is due to the fact that Mario is playing the position he is playing, part of it has to do with Mario being a beast. I would not be surprised if teams start shifting some of that attention towards Smith in the future which is a win/win for the Texans D.

Teams are ALREADY shifting attention to Smith. They aren't stupid and watch tape, when you get sacks in pretty much every game since the first preseason game, teams notice that and account for it. Houston has been countering by stunting J.J. Watt, which is also helping free Smith up and pulling double teams off of him.

dc_txtech
10-03-2011, 10:24 PM
Teams are ALREADY shifting attention to Smith. They aren't stupid and watch tape, when you get sacks in pretty much every game since the first preseason game, teams notice that. Houston has been countering by stunting J.J. Watt, which is also helping free Smith up and pulling double teams off of him.

I didn't say they weren't shifting any attention to Smith, I said they might shift some of the attention Mario is getting to Smith. Why can't you just like both players? You have been on a Mario vendetta for a while.

Carr Bombed
10-03-2011, 10:47 PM
I didn't say they weren't shifting any attention to Smith, I said they might shift some of the attention Mario is getting to Smith. Why can't you just like both players? You have been on a Mario vendetta for a while.

Oh lord here we go AGAIN. :vincepalm:


I DO LIKE BOTH PLAYERS! Just because you have certain criticisms about a player, or like the play of another player more, that doesn't mean you hate the guy.


Unlike some of y'all, I can root for both players instead of tearing one down to build another up.

brakos82
10-03-2011, 11:09 PM
Don't forget we have another game coming up for the princess of the NFL, Maria Williams. :kitten:

mussop
10-04-2011, 04:49 AM
The thing to remember with Mario is that if you plan in enough to stop him, it opens up things on the other side. Do you think Antonio Smith is really THAT good on his own? Of course he isn't, he's just good enough that if he's 1 on 1 he will take his chances and put up the numbers.

Too many times I think Mario has been written off because to begin with there was nobody over the other side capable of taking what he gives them, and that allows even more attention to be put on him.

Now, Mario is still the feature guy, and if I'm coaching an offense Vs the Texans all I care about is stopping him first and foremost, but everyone else in the front 7 is capable of taking advantage of that. Barwin had one of the best games of his career too don't forget, he had a sack knocked off by penalty didn't he.

Please show me one instance where the other team has done anything that makes you think they are focusing on stopping Mario. He lines up opposite the TE and he hardly ever gets double teamed. How is this game planning going on if he is getting one on one 99% of the time?

Rey
10-04-2011, 06:33 AM
Please show me one instance where the other team has done anything that makes you think they are focusing on stopping Mario. He lines up opposite the TE and he hardly ever gets double teamed. How is this game planning going on if he is getting one on one 99% of the time?

Mario was doubled in the last game quite a few times.

Ole Miss Texan
10-04-2011, 09:16 AM
Please show me one instance where the other team has done anything that makes you think they are focusing on stopping Mario. He lines up opposite the TE and he hardly ever gets double teamed. How is this game planning going on if he is getting one on one 99% of the time?
I see the right tackle on him quite a bit.

Mario was doubled in the last game quite a few times.
I saw a few times when he was facing the RT and the RB stayed back to help out.

Rey
10-04-2011, 10:14 AM
I saw a few times when he was facing the RT and the RB stayed back to help out.

I remember one play in particular where the Gaurd dropped back as a second layer of protection against Mario...Almost like a spy...When Mario got past the tackle the gaurd picked him up...

The Pencil Neck
10-04-2011, 10:17 AM
Don't forget we have another game coming up for the princess of the NFL, Maria Williams. :kitten:

I thought Dierdorf said her name was Mary O'Williams. Or was it Mary O. Williams.

Mr teX
10-04-2011, 10:30 AM
I remember one play in particular where the Gaurd dropped back as a second layer of protection against Mario...Almost like a spy...When Mario got past the tackle the gaurd picked him up...

That's happened quite a few times this season actually. the thing is though, people here are only counting it as a double team if mario is actively engaged with 2 people. But it's still considered a double if you are commanding 2 people's attention.

Ole Miss Texan
10-04-2011, 11:03 AM
Also, people complain when Mario's sacks are against TEs or when he gets by unblocked or whatnot. Just go take a look at all the top pass rushers and that's fairly common. Great plays are made when these players get in good matchups... all across the league. Mario, Clay Matthews, Babin, you name it.

HuttoKarl
10-04-2011, 01:34 PM
It doesn't matter one bit to me if our front seven are getting hits and sacks by running through guards, tackles, TE's or RB's. I'm glad to see them actually getting to the passer before the ball is released for a long TD.

thunderkyss
10-04-2011, 04:58 PM
Please show me one instance where the other team has done anything that makes you think they are focusing on stopping Mario. He lines up opposite the TE and he hardly ever gets double teamed. How is this game planning going on if he is getting one on one 99% of the time?

I just happen to find this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrZbxuyf5lo&feature=player_embedded) earlier today. This is from the Steeler's game, but I've been seeing them do it since the Miami game. This might be something that happens all the time, but it's the first time I noticed it. Mario has to go through the TE & then the LT. It's not a traditional double team, but it's two guys dedicated to stopping Mario.

welsh texan
10-04-2011, 05:07 PM
I just happen to find this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrZbxuyf5lo&feature=player_embedded) earlier today. This is from the Steeler's game, but I've been seeing them do it since the Miami game. This might be something that happens all the time, but it's the first time I noticed it. Mario has to go through the TE & then the LT. It's not a traditional double team, but it's two guys dedicated to stopping Mario.

I'd hazard a guess that teams are so fearful now of the threat from Watt, Smith & Barwin, not to mention Cush or Meco coming from the middle, that the most they can give up is an extra TE to help out with Mario, that is going to cause serious problems for OC's not to mention it removes a recieving threat from the play.

EllisUnit
10-04-2011, 05:10 PM
I'd hazard a guess that teams are so fearful now of the threat from Watt, Smith & Barwin, not to mention Cush or Meco coming from the middle, that the most they can give up is an extra TE to help out with Mario, that is going to cause serious problems for OC's not to mention it removes a recieving threat from the play.

agree if you watch the games, if mario moves sides then the qb will usually shift the TE back to the side mario is on, i saw it in 1 game where mario switched sides twice and the TE changed sides twice as well haha

infantrycak
10-04-2011, 08:31 PM
This is what I saw in reviewing the 1st half of the Steelers game.

1 - standing, single on LT, no TE.
2 - standing, single on LT, no TE.
3 - standing, LT and then RB, no TE.
4 - standing, LT let Mario by to get hit by RB on attempted screen.
5 - hand down, TE and RT.
6 - hand down, takes on RT and RG.
7 - standing, single on RT.

1 - standing, single on LT, TE released to receive screen.

1 - hand down, RT and RB.
2 - hand down, single on RT, no TE.
3 - hand down across from RT, no TE, drops into coverage.
4 - Reed in.
5 - Reed in.
6 - hand down, single on RT, no TE.
7 - hand down, RT and RB.
8 - hand down, RT and RG.

drunkcookie
10-04-2011, 09:30 PM
Also, people complain when Mario's sacks are against TEs or when he gets by unblocked or whatnot. Just go take a look at all the top pass rushers and that's fairly common. Great plays are made when these players get in good matchups... all across the league. Mario, Clay Matthews, Babin, you name it.

Don't go getting all logical with your truth junk...

Ndevine7
10-04-2011, 10:44 PM
I just happen to find this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrZbxuyf5lo&feature=player_embedded) earlier today. This is from the Steeler's game, but I've been seeing them do it since the Miami game. This might be something that happens all the time, but it's the first time I noticed it. Mario has to go through the TE & then the LT. It's not a traditional double team, but it's two guys dedicated to stopping Mario.

Smith has to do a similar thing going against the LG as well as the RB. Frees up Barwin to get the sack on the stunt move.

mussop
10-05-2011, 02:42 AM
Oh lord here we go AGAIN. :vincepalm:


I DO LIKE BOTH PLAYERS! Just because you have certain criticisms about a player, or like the play of another player more, that doesn't mean you hate the guy.


Unlike some of y'all, I can root for both players instead of tearing one down to build another up.

When it comes to Mario you better be praising the mighty beast or you are committing sacralidge. Seriously people here have lost all objectivity when it comes to Mario.

brakos82
10-05-2011, 03:06 AM
When it comes to Mario you better be praising the mighty beast or you are committing sacralidge. Seriously people here have lost all objectivity when it comes to Mario.

Well everybody knows we should have picked Reggie or VY over his sissy-pansy-ass. :kitten:

Corrosion
10-05-2011, 03:18 AM
When it comes to Mario you better be praising the mighty beast or you are committing sacralidge. Seriously people here have lost all objectivity when it comes to Mario.

There is no objectivity anywhere in the sports section of these forums anymore ..... you cant post positive nor negatve remarks without them being blown totally out of proportion.

(At least there is some objectivity in the NSZ tho not much)

Grams
10-05-2011, 06:04 AM
It doesn't matter one bit to me if our front seven are getting hits and sacks by running through guards, tackles, TE's or RB's. I'm glad to see them actually getting to the passer before the ball is released for a long TD.

This!

I don't care who is getting the pressure. The DL if finally getting there in time instead of being just inches away as in the past.

Ole Miss Texan
10-05-2011, 08:39 AM
Please show me one instance where the other team has done anything that makes you think they are focusing on stopping Mario. He lines up opposite the TE and he hardly ever gets double teamed. How is this game planning going on if he is getting one on one 99% of the time?

When it comes to Mario you better be praising the mighty beast or you are committing sacralidge. Seriously people here have lost all objectivity when it comes to Mario.

This is what I saw in reviewing the 1st half of the Steelers game.

1 - standing, single on LT, no TE.
2 - standing, single on LT, no TE.
3 - standing, LT and then RB, no TE.
4 - standing, LT let Mario by to get hit by RB on attempted screen.
5 - hand down, TE and RT.
6 - hand down, takes on RT and RG.
7 - standing, single on RT.

1 - standing, single on LT, TE released to receive screen.

1 - hand down, RT and RB.
2 - hand down, single on RT, no TE.
3 - hand down across from RT, no TE, drops into coverage.
4 - Reed in.
5 - Reed in.
6 - hand down, single on RT, no TE.
7 - hand down, RT and RB.
8 - hand down, RT and RG.
Hmmkay

mussop
10-05-2011, 04:58 PM
Hmmkay

What is this supposed to show that Pitt game planned specific for Mario?

Watch the games, there is no game planning to stop Mario. These are basic protection schemes. If they were game planning to stop him he would never get one on one opportunities. Which he does boatloads of times each game.

Thats what you people that are so enamored with Mario at OLB need to focus on. The one on one opportunities that Mario has been getting each game. Like it or not he is getting a ton of them and is seldom winning them. It is what it is. That is where he should shine because of the position he is playing and he simply isn't accomplishing what he should be in those situations.

If you just want to look at stats and ignore the possibilities thats fine with me but when you consider what he could be doing to opposing guards ala Smith with his abilities in this scheme, it seems to me his natural talent is being wasted.

I would much rather see him inside closer to the ball creating mismatches against less athletic guards than lined up outside far away from the ball going against the best OL on the opposing team. Guess I'm just stupid like that. :toropalm:

thunderkyss
10-05-2011, 05:27 PM
Thats what you people that are so enamored with Mario at OLB need to focus on. The one on one opportunities that Mario has been getting each game. Like it or not he is getting a ton of them and is seldom winning them. It is what it is. That is where he should shine because of the position he is playing and he simply isn't accomplishing what he should be in those situations.

So if we allow Winston or Brown to go one on one with Freeney, Mathis, Harrison or Wake, we aren't game planning against them?

Rey
10-05-2011, 05:28 PM
What is this supposed to show that Pitt game planned specific for Mario?

Watch the games, there is no game planning to stop Mario. These are basic protection schemes. If they were game planning to stop him he would never get one on one opportunities.

I do agree that some basic protection schemes call for double teams, but I disagree that teams gameplanning for him means he'd never see one on one opprotunities.

That makes 0 sense. If we bring 7 and they leave 6 in to block and they double team Mario that means they'd be leaving 2 free rushers just to double Mario. That makes no sense and there isn't a player in the NFL that gets that kind of treament because it'd be stupid.

disaacks3
10-05-2011, 05:28 PM
What is this supposed to show that Pitt game planned specific for Mario?

Watch the games, there is no game planning to stop Mario. These are basic protection schemes. If they were game planning to stop him he would never get one on one opportunities. Which he does boatloads of times each game.

Thats what you people that are so enamored with Mario at OLB need to focus on. The one on one opportunities that Mario has been getting each game. Like it or not he is getting a ton of them and is seldom winning them. It is what it is. That is where he should shine because of the position he is playing and he simply isn't accomplishing what he should be in those situations.

If you just want to look at stats and ignore the possibilities thats fine with me but when you consider what he could be doing to opposing guards ala Smith with his abilities in this scheme, it seems to me his natural talent is being wasted.

I would much rather see him inside closer to the ball creating mismatches against less athletic guards than lined up outside far away from the ball going against the best OL on the opposing team. Guess I'm just stupid like that. :toropalm:

Are you under the (mistaken) impression that when guys get "game planned" for that they will NEVER get One-on-One opportunities? I guess all the rest of the NFL sack leaders never get those one-on-ones either? :nolisten:


If you don't think every team on the Texans schedule "game plans" for Mario, you've sorely underestimated NFL coaching.

Ole Miss Texan
10-05-2011, 05:38 PM
What is this supposed to show that Pitt game planned specific for Mario?

Watch the games, there is no game planning to stop Mario. These are basic protection schemes. If they were game planning to stop him he would never get one on one opportunities. Which he does boatloads of times each game.

Thats what you people that are so enamored with Mario at OLB need to focus on. The one on one opportunities that Mario has been getting each game. Like it or not he is getting a ton of them and is seldom winning them. It is what it is. That is where he should shine because of the position he is playing and he simply isn't accomplishing what he should be in those situations.

If you just want to look at stats and ignore the possibilities thats fine with me but when you consider what he could be doing to opposing guards ala Smith with his abilities in this scheme, it seems to me his natural talent is being wasted.

I would much rather see him inside closer to the ball creating mismatches against less athletic guards than lined up outside far away from the ball going against the best OL on the opposing team. Guess I'm just stupid like that. :toropalm:
Well I'm glad to see some other posters have already beaten me to the punch. I don't even know where to begin.

First I guess I'd say I was never concerned with the "Mario to OLB" talk because I knew that's not what was actually going to happen. He plays some OLB, he plays a lot on the line in a 4-3 or a 5-2. I never cared about that talk because Wade is putting him in the best position to succeed and/or help the team... that's not the typical OLB spot most people think of in a 3-4.

Secondly, gameplanning against him. I think OC's gameplan against Mario, Smith and Watt big time. These 3 guys in the trenches are studs. The quoted I had previously showed how Mario wasn't 1-on-1 with TEs like you so desperately wish everyone would believe. You tell us to watch the games? Maybe you should because you're obviously not seeing what we're seeing. I'm not saying Mario is double/triple teamed every play and he's the best ever and deserves zero criticism. That's not what this is about. He needs to improve in my opinion but you wanted one example where he wasn't on a TE one on on? Well you got like 8 just from the 1st half, last game.

We agree on one point though, I want to see him on the line as much as possible. That's where he excels. I think we're starting to see that and will continue to see that.

Here's your boy Clay Matthews (who I absolutely love as a player too, by the way, so I'm not hating). How many of his sacks from his record year were on double triple teams? How many were unblocked? How many were just on the TAckle? Players take advantage when they're in that situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dg0xNpT5a0

EllisUnit
10-05-2011, 06:09 PM
What is this supposed to show that Pitt game planned specific for Mario?

Watch the games, there is no game planning to stop Mario. These are basic protection schemes. If they were game planning to stop him he would never get one on one opportunities. Which he does boatloads of times each game.

Thats what you people that are so enamored with Mario at OLB need to focus on. The one on one opportunities that Mario has been getting each game. Like it or not he is getting a ton of them and is seldom winning them. It is what it is. That is where he should shine because of the position he is playing and he simply isn't accomplishing what he should be in those situations.

If you just want to look at stats and ignore the possibilities thats fine with me but when you consider what he could be doing to opposing guards ala Smith with his abilities in this scheme, it seems to me his natural talent is being wasted.

I would much rather see him inside closer to the ball creating mismatches against less athletic guards than lined up outside far away from the ball going against the best OL on the opposing team. Guess I'm just stupid like that. :toropalm:

if u recorded the game go back and watch. The TE would motion to M.W side every time, i even saw the QB motion him back and forth cause M.W kept switching sides. I'm sorry man but O.C's do gameplan for Williams.

ObsiWan
10-06-2011, 01:50 AM
Well everybody knows we should have picked Reggie or VY over his sissy-pansy-ass. :kitten:

You keep dangling the bait but ain't nobody biting.
(and, no, this doesn't count)
:D

brakos82
10-06-2011, 01:52 AM
You keep dangling the bait but ain't nobody biting.
(and, no, this doesn't count)
:D

I know. Damn serious people. :slapfight:

El Tejano
10-06-2011, 09:22 AM
I would suggest that we keep Mario upset and remind him again how bad he sucks.

infantrycak
10-06-2011, 10:11 AM
What is this supposed to show that Pitt game planned specific for Mario?

No that was supposed to demonstrate (and did quite easily) that your assertions about double teams and TE's were wrong.

Watch the games

Right back at you.

, there is no game planning to stop Mario. These are basic protection schemes. If they were game planning to stop him he would never get one on one opportunities. Which he does boatloads of times each game.

Now we see the problem - fundamental misunderstanding of football knowledge. That is just a ludicrous assertion as others above have pointed out. In fact, game planning will sometimes consist of leaving someone completely unblocked with a call like a quick bootleg to the opposite side.

BigBull17
10-06-2011, 10:57 AM
What is this supposed to show that Pitt game planned specific for Mario?

Watch the games, there is no game planning to stop Mario. These are basic protection schemes. If they were game planning to stop him he would never get one on one opportunities. Which he does boatloads of times each game.

Thats what you people that are so enamored with Mario at OLB need to focus on. The one on one opportunities that Mario has been getting each game. Like it or not he is getting a ton of them and is seldom winning them. It is what it is. That is where he should shine because of the position he is playing and he simply isn't accomplishing what he should be in those situations.

If you just want to look at stats and ignore the possibilities thats fine with me but when you consider what he could be doing to opposing guards ala Smith with his abilities in this scheme, it seems to me his natural talent is being wasted.

I would much rather see him inside closer to the ball creating mismatches against less athletic guards than lined up outside far away from the ball going against the best OL on the opposing team. Guess I'm just stupid like that. :toropalm:

If you move Mario, which isn't going to happen nor should it, then Brooks Reed will be the starter. No. He has looked underwhelming. Not to say he wont be better down the road, but he is very far from anything but a bit role player.

if u recorded the game go back and watch. The TE would motion to M.W side every time, i even saw the QB motion him back and forth cause M.W kept switching sides. I'm sorry man but O.C's do gameplan for Williams.

You're using logic to argue with a hater. I really shouldn't bother either, cause guys like he and Dale Murphy will never back off. Mario could beat the whole oline at the same time and they would say his technique was sloppy and that Antonio Smith would have done it faster and caused a fumble.

76Texan
10-06-2011, 11:20 AM
He lines up opposite the TE and he hardly ever gets double teamed.

As a WILL (weak side LB), Mario doesn't see the TE as much as the SAM (Barwin).

When you see Mario lining up accross a TE, usually, the offense was in a 2-TE set.
(Occasionally, Mario does play as a "true" SAM, but very rarely.)

Normally, offenses motion the TE to try to gauge coverage (particularly in the secondary.)
The 3-4 defense can shift the OLBs if they choose to.
They often do, but sometimes, they leave them as is.

Texan_Bill
10-06-2011, 11:35 AM
I would suggest that we keep Mario upset and remind him again how bad he sucks.

He's the worst, ever!! :kitten:

:evil:

El Tejano
10-06-2011, 11:48 AM
He's the worst, ever!! :kitten:

:evil:

That's it..that's it!

The Cush
10-06-2011, 12:59 PM
What is this supposed to show that Pitt game planned specific for Mario?

Watch the games, there is no game planning to stop Mario. These are basic protection schemes. If they were game planning to stop him he would never get one on one opportunities. Which he does boatloads of times each game.

Thats what you people that are so enamored with Mario at OLB need to focus on. The one on one opportunities that Mario has been getting each game. Like it or not he is getting a ton of them and is seldom winning them. It is what it is. That is where he should shine because of the position he is playing and he simply isn't accomplishing what he should be in those situations.

If you just want to look at stats and ignore the possibilities thats fine with me but when you consider what he could be doing to opposing guards ala Smith with his abilities in this scheme, it seems to me his natural talent is being wasted.

I would much rather see him inside closer to the ball creating mismatches against less athletic guards than lined up outside far away from the ball going against the best OL on the opposing team. Guess I'm just stupid like that. :toropalm:

He's gone against a couple of Pro-Bowlers already this season and he's just suppose to dominate those 1 on 1 matchups and get a sack every play? He's on pace for 16 sacks and how long has he played this position for?

Like someone else said, by moving him inside you are basically replacing JJ Watt with Brooks Reed in the lineup. Antonio Smith isn't getting his spot taken and I don't think they've even considered using JJ Watt at the nose so to the bench he goes. That seems extremely counter-productive. And as a 3-4 DE you are more likely to see double teams just by the nature of lining up inside a couple of lineman, but your already complaining Mario just doesn't win 1 on 1 matchups let's have him go 2 on 1?

mussop
10-06-2011, 04:47 PM
Now we see the problem - fundamental misunderstanding of football knowledge. That is just a ludicrous assertion as others above have pointed out. In fact, game planning will sometimes consist of leaving someone completely unblocked with a call like a quick bootleg to the opposite side.

Of course there are situations that will allow him one on one where he has no chance of making a play such as a toss or run to the opposite side or a quick 2 step drop play. I thought I was talking to people with a fundamental understanding of football knowledge. Didn't think it was necessary to point out the obvious. :mariopalm:

mussop
10-06-2011, 05:23 PM
If you move Mario, which isn't going to happen nor should it, then Brooks Reed will be the starter. No. He has looked underwhelming. Not to say he wont be better down the road, but he is very far from anything but a bit role player.

Mario has looked underwhelming at OLB unless you look at nothing but stats.


You're using logic to argue with a hater. I really shouldn't bother either, cause guys like he and Dale Murphy will never back off. Mario could beat the whole oline at the same time and they would say his technique was sloppy and that Antonio Smith would have done it faster and caused a fumble.

I'm a hater? really? I was one of the few on here that begged for Mario over VY and Bush. I have always wanted Mario to succeed but I'm not going to blindly follow the herd just because he was a number one pick. The only thing I have ever really criticized Mario about was his lack of technique (coaching fault) and the coaching allowing him to run himself out of the play to much in the past. His abilities were being wasted back then too by letting him play the role of a speed rusher, something he is not and will never be.

I believe Mario would be a dominating game changer if they would just put him in the right spot and teach him the proper technique. He has all the ability in the world, he just need a coach that will put him where he belongs. Like Wade Phillips said when he first got here, Mario could be another Bruce Smith in this system. But then Phillips for what ever reason, decides Mario needs to play outside. :wadepalm:

Even now his best plays are when his hand is on the ground and he doesn't try and out run the T by looping around him. I just don't see Mario ever being a dominating OLB. I can see him if coached up and put in the right spot being a Bruce smith like presence and that would take this defense from pretty good to great. But hey I'm a hater so I'm just haten. :smiliepalm:

mussop
10-06-2011, 06:02 PM
He's gone against a couple of Pro-Bowlers already this season and he's just suppose to dominate those 1 on 1 matchups and get a sack every play? He's on pace for 16 sacks and how long has he played this position for?

He's gone against more than his fair share of backups and those are the battles he needs to be dominating. Pitt, Indy and NO all played backups at T.

Like someone else said, by moving him inside you are basically replacing JJ Watt with Brooks Reed in the lineup. Antonio Smith isn't getting his spot taken and I don't think they've even considered using JJ Watt at the nose so to the bench he goes. That seems extremely counter-productive. And as a 3-4 DE you are more likely to see double teams just by the nature of lining up inside a couple of lineman, but your already complaining Mario just doesn't win 1 on 1 matchups let's have him go 2 on 1?

Why would they not consider moving Watt to the middle? You don't think he would be better than Cody? Again Mario isn't winning the one on one battles because he is playing out of position and going against the better athletes at T. Putting him inside would allow him to go against slower less athletic guards and centers.

So in the middle his job wouldn't be to try and get around an athletic T. It would be to over power or out maneuver less athletic guards and get to the QB or push the pocket back allowing speed off the edge to get to the QB or force him back into Mario. This is more suited to his abilities. Always has been. The problem is he is so athletic (for his size) coaches are to tempted to make him into a pure outside rusher.

Hell I hope I'm wrong and he all the sudden explodes and becomes the next LT. If not I fear we are missing out on having our version of Bruce Smith for a solid run stopping OLB that occasionally makes a good play rushing the passer.

mussop
10-06-2011, 06:27 PM
So if we allow Winston or Brown to go one on one with Freeney, Mathis, Harrison or Wake, we aren't game planning against them?

Of course there is alot more to it than that. There are going to be times when the played called dictates that Brown or Winston will get one on one's with those guys. When you see a slow developing play and Mario on an Island going one on one with a T you can't tell me that the other team is specifically game planning against him. And especially when you see him going one on one against RT's and backup T's which I've seen plenty of this year already.

DocBar
10-06-2011, 06:38 PM
I've missed quite a bit of action on this thread. 1st off, no one on here was a bigger critic of MW as WOLB in the preseason than yours truly. I've eaten 4 helpings of crow so far for that. As was pointed out so often to me is that MW is just scratching the surface of what he can do from this position and just give him time. 4 games into the season, I'm hoping we resign him or franchise him because the man can flat out play the position. In 18-ish quarters (including preseason), he's made a believer out of me. The big man can play.

We have to remember that Phillips is still spoon feeding his scheme to the entire defense, so we haven't seen all the wrinkles he's got up his rather extensive coaching sleeve and MW is still very much in learning mode. To have accomplished what he has so far is very impressive. The salad days are very much in front of us with this defense and 9 or so of the starters on it. I expect to see the D play its best ball after the bye week when Phillips has most of his scheme installed and the players are more instinctual with the base sets. Just in time for a big playoff push headed for Indy!!

If anyone thinks for a second that teams aren't scheming for MW and Phillips ain't scheming to get him one-on-one, they're either being intellectually dishonest by playing devil's advocate or they have no clue about football.

Not Mike

b0ng
10-06-2011, 07:24 PM
Mario Williams and the rest of the defense is not playing in such a way that would warrant changing around all these players and positions being changed. How about we talk about a position change that is just as likely to happen : Garrett Graham to WR.

Carr Bombed
10-06-2011, 07:45 PM
If anyone thinks for a second that teams aren't scheming for MW and Phillips ain't scheming to get him one-on-one, they're either being intellectually dishonest by playing devil's advocate or they have no clue about football.

Not Mike

And likewise to anyone who thinks Mario is the only reason why A. Smith is getting off and making plays or tries to credit all of his production this year to Mario Williams. Both players are getting theirs, because they are just that good.

The Cush
10-06-2011, 08:08 PM
He's gone against more than his fair share of backups and those are the battles he needs to be dominating. Pitt, Indy and NO all played backups at T.



Why would they not consider moving Watt to the middle? You don't think he would be better than Cody? Again Mario isn't winning the one on one battles because he is playing out of position and going against the better athletes at T. Putting him inside would allow him to go against slower less athletic guards and centers.

So in the middle his job wouldn't be to try and get around an athletic T. It would be to over power or out maneuver less athletic guards and get to the QB or push the pocket back allowing speed off the edge to get to the QB or force him back into Mario. This is more suited to his abilities. Always has been. The problem is he is so athletic (for his size) coaches are to tempted to make him into a pure outside rusher.

Hell I hope I'm wrong and he all the sudden explodes and becomes the next LT. If not I fear we are missing out on having our version of Bruce Smith for a solid run stopping OLB that occasionally makes a good play rushing the passer.

Indy: he had 2 sacks, a forced fumbled, also caused an intentional grounding
Pitt: he had 2 sacks and forcefully made Big Ben run around in circles at least 3 other times
New Orleans: While he did have 1 on 1 matchups, if you re-watch that game they were chipping him, using the TE to pass off to a tackle, and there were even a handful of plays where the tackle and one of their pro bowl guards would basically run a stunt and have the guard switch and block Mario. That line basically shut our defense out

I've heard Watt is too tall to play the nose in a 3-4 and have yet to see him at the nose once there. That's what's making me think they aren't considering moving him there.

You keep saying he's looked underwhelming but if he stays on pace and ends up with 16 sacks is he still going to be underwhelming because that number is just a stat? I don't honestly believe you are a Mario hater but I think you so strongly believe he would be better served as a 3-4 DE that your view on how he plays as an OLB will always be jaded.

BigBull17
10-06-2011, 08:28 PM
He's gone against more than his fair share of backups and those are the battles he needs to be dominating. Pitt, Indy and NO all played backups at T.



Why would they not consider moving Watt to the middle? You don't think he would be better than Cody? Again Mario isn't winning the one on one battles because he is playing out of position and going against the better athletes at T. Putting him inside would allow him to go against slower less athletic guards and centers.

So in the middle his job wouldn't be to try and get around an athletic T. It would be to over power or out maneuver less athletic guards and get to the QB or push the pocket back allowing speed off the edge to get to the QB or force him back into Mario. This is more suited to his abilities. Always has been. The problem is he is so athletic (for his size) coaches are to tempted to make him into a pure outside rusher.

Hell I hope I'm wrong and he all the sudden explodes and becomes the next LT. If not I fear we are missing out on having our version of Bruce Smith for a solid run stopping OLB that occasionally makes a good play rushing the passer.

I think Watt could play nose. If we had a 3-4 olb that we needed to get on the field cause he is a beast, than I would move him there and Mario to end. BUT, Reed is not the guy that you watch and say "Man, he needs more reps" Reed may be that eventually, but he isn't now. The line up we are fielding is the best lineup we have avaliable. Maybe Mario isn't as big a pass rushing force at OLB he would be at end, but he is VERY good against the run. Reed constantly gave up runs in his limited action because he doesn't set the edge. Mario and Barwin are the best combe at 3-4 olb we have right now.

And likewise to anyone who thinks Mario is the only reason why A. Smith is getting off and making plays or tries to credit all of his production this year to Mario Williams. Both players are getting theirs, because they are just that good.

Never said he was. Good defenses set each other up. One guy can have a big impact, but he can't do it alone. Ultimate team game and all.

infantrycak
10-06-2011, 08:48 PM
And likewise to anyone who thinks Mario is the only reason why A. Smith is getting off and making plays or tries to credit all of his production this year to Mario Williams. Both players are getting theirs, because they are just that good.

Who said "only reason" or "all?"

Carr Bombed
10-06-2011, 09:19 PM
Who said "only reason" or "all?"

Please don't be coy here, there have been plenty who have acted like the ONLY reason why Smith is able to do what he's done this season is because of Mario :rolleyes:

The Cush
10-06-2011, 09:38 PM
Please don't be coy here, there have been plenty who have acted like the ONLY reason why Smith is able to do what he's done this season is because of Mario :rolleyes:

Antonio has been killing it and deserves all the credit in the world for his play. He and Duane Brown have really impressed me with how they have taken their games to new levels this year

infantrycak
10-06-2011, 09:50 PM
Please don't be coy here, there have been plenty who have acted like the ONLY reason why Smith is able to do what he's done this season is because of Mario :rolleyes:

Find me a couple posts demonstrating this as I haven't seen it.

I have seen posts saying Mario's stats aren't the only demonstration of his benefit to the team. Personally I have been arguing Smith was better than people give him credit for a couple years. Players feed off each other. Smith benefits from Mario being on the field and Mario benefits from Smith being on the field. It is the absolutes like there is no game planing if a player ever faces a one on one match up that are ridiculous.

b0ng
10-06-2011, 10:14 PM
Please don't be coy here, there have been plenty who have acted like the ONLY reason why Smith is able to do what he's done this season is because of Mario :rolleyes:

Could you at least break the sweat it would require to do a search for these posts displaying the point you are trying to argue against since nobody has presented it in this thread.

DocBar
10-06-2011, 10:17 PM
And likewise to anyone who thinks Mario is the only reason why A. Smith is getting off and making plays or tries to credit all of his production this year to Mario Williams. Both players are getting theirs, because they are just that good.Very true.

76Texan
10-06-2011, 10:21 PM
Please don't be coy here, there have been plenty who have acted like the ONLY reason why Smith is able to do what he's done this season is because of Mario :rolleyes:

The real reason is that Smith needs to be on the inside; he is more effective there; it was my call from the beginning.

Leave Mario on the edge because that's where he's most effective just the same.

That said, if there's an injury on the line we cannot afford, it is Mario's at the time being.

A lot of people think that Mario can be effective inside; if Antonio was to be injured, the Texans can choose to move Mario inside.

If Mario was to be injured, Antonio cannot spell Mario on the outside.
Mario can take over Antonio's position; it can't be said the same in role reversal.

mussop
10-06-2011, 10:21 PM
You keep saying he's looked underwhelming but if he stays on pace and ends up with 16 sacks is he still going to be underwhelming because that number is just a stat? I don't honestly believe you are a Mario hater but I think you so strongly believe he would be better served as a 3-4 DE that your view on how he plays as an OLB will always be jaded.

I don't believe he will stay on this pace but if he does then yes I am wrong. You can't deny 16 sacks. As far as being jaded, that's very possible but it's also possible that people are so enamored with having a 290 pound outside linebacker that they are getting overly excited about anything positive he does and blow it out of proportion. The next few weeks will clear all this up. Again, I hope I'm wrong I really would love to see Mario start tearing it up and our defense become Raven like. Then it wouldn't matter if all we did was kick field goals everytime we got in the red zone.

Carr Bombed
10-06-2011, 10:39 PM
Could you at least break the sweat it would require to do a search for these posts displaying the point you are trying to argue against since nobody has presented it in this thread.

Umm no, because I would have to go through multiple threads and I don't care to exert the effort or time since I already know that you know the exact argument and point I'm making here. :rolleyes: Are you really going to sit there and act like people weren't giving most of the credit of A. Smith's success to the performance of Mario Williams? Sorry, but pulling up all of that crap isn't worth my time at this hour. I have too many things to do in the morning and all anybody needs to do is go back and read.

Carr Bombed
10-06-2011, 10:51 PM
The real reason is that Smith needs to be on the inside; he is more effective there; it was my call from the beginning.

Leave Mario on the edge because that's where he's most effective just the same.

That said, if there's an injury on the line we cannot afford, it is Mario's at the time being.

A lot of people think that Mario can be effective inside; if Antonio was to be injured, the Texans can choose to move Mario inside.

If Mario was to be injured, Antonio cannot spell Mario on the outside.
Mario can take over Antonio's position; it can't be said the same in role reversal.

Disagree. This is where we differ and where people call me a "hater", just because I have a difference of opinion and DON'T think that Mario Williams is our "most important defender".

Is we lost Antonio Smith, we'd be up **** creek without a paddle. How so quick people forget that in a completely different defensive system, he was our most consistent and best defender...and now in this new system, he has been the same thing.

Now don't fret, this doesn't make me a "hater", it just makes me a truth teller. Antonio Smith has been our best defender on this defense. I mean YES Mario makes outstanding plays, but he isn't consistent at all. Sorry but, I'll always take consistency. Mario Williams is a amazing weapon...but Smith has been better, simply because week in and week out you can count on him.

Rey
10-06-2011, 11:35 PM
The real reason is that Smith needs to be on the inside; he is more effective there; it was my call from the beginning.

Leave Mario on the edge because that's where he's most effective just the same.

That said, if there's an injury on the line we cannot afford, it is Mario's at the time being.

A lot of people think that Mario can be effective inside; if Antonio was to be injured, the Texans can choose to move Mario inside.

If Mario was to be injured, Antonio cannot spell Mario on the outside.
Mario can take over Antonio's position; it can't be said the same in role reversal.

I agree with everything here except I don't see how Mario being more versatile is relevant to this convo. But other than that you pretty much nailed it.

Smith is much better when he's not the outside rusher. Mario plays best from the edge.

But arguing about Mario vs smith when it comes to their value to the team is not something. I like both of them and I just don't want to tear one of them down to make point about the other. I hope both keep up what they've been doing so far.

Texan_Bill
10-07-2011, 08:56 AM
I'm of the opinion that we should've drafted VY instead of Mario or Bush!! :runaway:

thunderkyss
10-07-2011, 09:03 AM
I'm of the opinion that we should've drafted VY instead of Mario or Bush!! :runaway:

Just imagine what a beast Mario would be if he had the coaching of the Tennessee Titan's defensive staff

& what a monster Vince would be with Kubiak, the QB Guru

Texan_Bill
10-07-2011, 09:09 AM
Just imagine what a beast Mario would be if he had the coaching of the Tennessee Titan's defensive staff

& what a monster Vince would be with Kubiak, the QB Guru

All joking aside, they're both interesting points.

HOU-TEX
10-07-2011, 10:52 AM
All joking aside, they're both interesting points.

Not really. Damn near triggered my gag reflexes at the thought

Texan_Bill
10-07-2011, 11:07 AM
Not really. Damn near triggered my gag reflexes at the thought

I didn't say I was fond of the idea, just that it was an interesting point. I would still take Mario every day of the week and twice on Sundays over "steppin' and fetchin'"!

b0ng
10-07-2011, 12:15 PM
Umm no, because I would have to go through multiple threads and I don't care to exert the effort or time since I already know that you know the exact argument and point I'm making here. :rolleyes: Are you really going to sit there and act like people weren't giving most of the credit of A. Smith's success to the performance of Mario Williams? Sorry, but pulling up all of that crap isn't worth my time at this hour. I have too many things to do in the morning and all anybody needs to do is go back and read.

Then I'll just choose to believe you are talking out of your ass like always since you can't be bothered to show anybody discussing that point you tried to argue against.-

mussop
10-07-2011, 06:12 PM
Antonio has been killing it and deserves all the credit in the world for his play. He and Duane Brown have really impressed me with how they have taken their games to new levels this year

100% agree with this. They they are Offensive and Defensive MVP's for us right now.

Thorn
10-08-2011, 03:00 PM
Just imagine what a beast Mario would be if he had the coaching of the Tennessee Titan's defensive staff

& what a monster Vince would be with Kubiak, the QB Guru

I'm not sure how much better Mario would be on the Titans, but I think VY would have actually made something of himself under Kubiak. This isn't to say VY wouldn't have self destructed like he did, I'm just saying the atmosphere for a QB is much better in Houston than in Tennessee.

But, given the wonderful knowledge of hindsight, I'm happy as hell we got Mario instead of Young or Bush.

Goatcheese
10-08-2011, 08:32 PM
JJ Watt looks good. Trade Maria now while her stock is high.

:toropalm:

welsh texan
10-09-2011, 04:12 PM
:vincepalm: Antonio Smith played across from Mario Williams LAST SEASON ALSO. Why didn't he have the sack #s then?


Seriously, why the hell is everyone writing off what Antonio has been able to do this year and are just trying to give all the credit for his production to Mario Williams. Frankly it's stupid. If you actually watch Antonio Smith's sacks this season, he's getting those sacks, because he's consistently winning his individual match ups WEEK IN AND WEEK OUT. He is our most consistent defender, which is exactly what he was last year as well. Hell the man is even drawing double teams and beating them...still no credit for him though, it's all Mario. :rolleyes:

The biggest improvement in Antonio's game this season lies in the fact that we finally have a defensive coach that knows what the heck he's doing and a defensive coach who has the ability to put players in the best position to succeed. People need to stop tearing a player's performance/ability down just to build another player up. There were two game balls given out to the defense this week. One went to Allen and the other to Smith. Smith is a damn good player in this league, can earn his own keep, and he's responsible for his own production. If you want to start a thread praising Mario, by all means do that...he deserves praise for his performance yesterday, but can we please stop acting like he is the only reason why Antonio is balling his ass off this season, because that simply is not the case and is disingenuous.

Does Mario Williams being on the field help Antonio...yeah it does, but guess what? Antonio Smith being on the field ALSO HELPS MARIO. Antonio Smith being on the field also helps J.J. Watt. J.J. Watt being on the field also helps Antonio Smith and Mario Williams. Heck even Connor Barwin's speed off the edge is something teams have to account for and deal with and even it is helping other players on this defense. ALL OF THESE PLAYERS BEING ON THE FIELD TOGETHER ARE HELPING EACHOTHER. That's what happens when you have talented players and a talented from 7, it all goes hand in hand. You can't just key on one player.

:toropalm:

stingray
10-09-2011, 04:23 PM
JJ Watt looks good. Trade Maria now while her stock is high.

:toropalm:

Yeah.. Ok...

Carr Bombed
10-09-2011, 11:56 PM
Then I'll just choose to believe you are talking out of your ass like always since you can't be bothered to show anybody discussing that point you tried to argue against.-

Did a mod really erase the post that I posted earlier in response to this post? Sorry, but that's absolute CRAP. What B.S.

I'd really like to know who did that and please tell me why the above poster's post wasn't removed. Gee let me guess, that mod must've thought I was a "Hater" also. :rolleyes: That is absolute crap. grow a pair. If you're going to remove a post of mine atleast send me a P.I telling me what I did wrong with that post and the things I need to clean up.

Carr Bombed
10-10-2011, 12:08 AM
:toropalm:

:kubepalm:

what a great repsonse...I mean it was soo informative

welsh texan
10-10-2011, 02:37 PM
:kubepalm:

what a great repsonse...I mean it was soo informative

I think you'll find that the post I :toropalm:'ed was an attempt to flame me for daring to suggest that the rest of the D-line would struggle to get pressure if teams weren't scared ****less of Mario. Yes those guys have to have talent to take advantage of 1 on 1 matchups but they aren't anywhere near the same level.

Well, Mario left the game and Antonio couldn't get it done once all the protection got shifted to him. Proving my point.

I sure as hell hope he finds a way of proving me wrong, as good as he is he isn't of the ability to take on two O-linemen and then either a TE/RB and still reach the QB in time. No matter what you think.