PDA

View Full Version : Corner # 2 not better, Quin?


badboy
09-30-2011, 10:23 PM
WIn or lose I want to see someone step up. KJ may not play and I have zero confidence in Allen whom I had hoped to have a solid if not spetacular season playing only CB.

If this spot is still a disaster after Sunday, I recommend Quin moving back and either Nolan or Allen playing opposite Manning.

Your thoughts?

thunderkyss
09-30-2011, 11:04 PM
Far as I can tell, Jackson has had roughly 9 minutes of inexcusable play.

The Coaches identified it & they "corrected it" Monday.... let's see if it took.

badboy
09-30-2011, 11:14 PM
Far as I can tell, Jackson has had roughly 9 minutes of inexcusable play.

The Coaches identified it & they "corrected it" Monday.... let's see if it took.Interesting. Did they say what "it" was or how it was "corrected"? I sure hope this is good info.

BTW, the average passing play is what like 15 seconds? If so, 4 of those in a minute x 9 of your minutes and that is 36 plays? An average of 12 bad plays a game? Even I don't think he is that bad.

thunderkyss
09-30-2011, 11:16 PM
Interesting. Did they say what "it" was or how it was "corrected"? I sure hope this is good info.

BTW, the average passing play is what like 15 seconds? If so, 4 of those in a minute x 9 of your minutes and that is 36 plays? An average of 12 bad plays a game? Even I don't think he is that bad.

Well, it was actually less than that.... 6 I think in that Saints game.... nothing terrible (or spectacular for that matter) in the other two.

So that averages out to 2 a game.......

badboy
09-30-2011, 11:22 PM
Just ribbing you.

EllisUnit
09-30-2011, 11:32 PM
Well, it was actually less than that.... 6 I think in that Saints game.... nothing terrible (or spectacular for that matter) in the other two.

So that averages out to 2 a game.......

jackson gave up 8 receptions out of the 9 times he was thrown at. If we hadnt had such good pressure on Brees in the first halk KJ would of looked even worse. 8 out of 9. come on that is beyond terrible.

badboy
09-30-2011, 11:35 PM
jackson gave up 8 receptions out of the 9 times he was thrown at. If we hadnt had such good pressure on Brees in the first halk KJ would of looked even worse. 8 out of 9. come on that is beyond terrible.I think coaches will focus on that 1 and then fix the other 8.
:splits:

bckey
10-01-2011, 12:57 AM
I think coaches will focus on that 1 and then fix the other 8.
:splits:


Or opposing dc's will watch the tape from the Saints game and pick on KJ until Phillips gets him out of there. He sucks. The Texans have got to learn to put the best players on the field. Stop running KJ out there because he was a 1st round pick last year. Quin should be moved back to cb. Our mlbs were exposed by Graham last week also. In the NFL once a weakness is exposed opposing teams will go after that weakness until it is fixed. Last year it never got fixed. Luckily the Texans are getting more pressure on qbs and that helps some. It will get them a few more wins than last year but the Texans will not be able to beat the elite teams and surely die a quick playoff death.

disaacks3
10-01-2011, 01:03 AM
Pretty sure I heard on the news tonight that KJ is out for the Steelers game.

Air Canada
10-01-2011, 01:16 AM
Pretty sure I heard on the news tonight that KJ is out for the Steelers game.

I feel bad for almost kinda sorta liking this :runaway:

bo orlando
10-01-2011, 02:11 AM
jackson gave up 8 receptions out of the 9 times he was thrown at. If we hadnt had such good pressure on Brees in the first halk KJ would of looked even worse. 8 out of 9. come on that is beyond terrible.

i think the problem was more that the texans have been protecting kj through the first 2 1/2 games with near-constant safety help. texans couldn't do this anymore when the saints opened up the offense in the second half and were able to isolate kj on a quality receiver. any OC already knows this is the gameplan against the texans. fortunately, not every team has the talent to exploit this. better pray we don't meet the patriots or chargers if we make the playoffs.

DocBar
10-01-2011, 08:57 AM
Far as I can tell, Jackson has had roughly 9 minutes of inexcusable play.

The Coaches identified it & they "corrected it" Monday.... let's see if it took.If it were only that easy, evey player would be a pro bowler.
You can't make chicken salad out of chicken chit.

beerlover
10-01-2011, 09:36 AM
Pretty sure I heard on the news tonight that KJ is out for the Steelers game.

Jackson’s Status
Cornerback Kareem Jackson didn’t practice Friday, and is listed as questionable for Sunday’s contest against the Steelers. Should he be unable to go, veteran Jason Allen would start in Jackson’s place.
“I think there’s still a chance he could play,” Texans head coach Gary Kubiak said of Jackson. “So it’ll probably be a game-time decision, probably get him up moving around tomorrow morning and work him out before the game.”
Kubiak also mentioned that Brice McCain will likely see some time in the game as well, and that the absence of Jackson is an opportunity for the two reserves.
“Jason’s basically played as much, almost as much as a starter, probably just a little bit less than Kareem, so he’s played a lot of football,” Kubiak said. “Brice basically starts in nickel, so he’s got his starter ability on our football team. If Kareem’s unable to go, those guys will have to stand up and do their job.”

enjoy the show :htown2atx:

BullNation4Life
10-01-2011, 10:25 AM
still saw move Quinn back to #2 and let Nolan play SS...

Rey
10-01-2011, 10:28 AM
No way would I move Glover from Safety...

He is not great in man coverage, and he has been playing safety pretty well IMO. His run support from the safety position is excellent, and besides the time he was manned up on J.Grahm I don't recall him getting beat badly.

Where is McCain at? Where is McMannis? Brandon Harris? These are the guys I want to see get more playing time.

And Allen does suck at a number of things, but he is like the Steve Slaton of CB's...If he plays enough he's going to get his hands on some balls and make some things happen. It's jus that for most of the time he's in, he's sucking.

thunderkyss
10-01-2011, 11:02 AM
I think it's too early to start playing Musical Chairs.

Quin is learning his new position & doing a damn good job. Nolan really doesn't look much better than he did last year once you figure the limited time he's played & the number of mistakes he's made.

I'd go forward with the plan they've got, if they don't think Jackson is cutting it, McCain, McMannis (who I believe is hurt), Harris need to move up on the depth chart. Leave Allen in his "support" role, but when those guys screw up, get them off the field right then & there correct him, then send him back in & get Allen off the field. Don't wait until he's given up 70 yds & a TD.

rush2112mn
10-01-2011, 11:23 AM
I doubt Kareem plays Sunday...which might be good .....someone else steps in.....next man up.....

Big Lou
10-01-2011, 11:33 AM
I doubt Kareem plays Sunday...which might be good .....someone else steps in.....next man up.....

Yeh, KJ is banged up, and sounds like he's out this week last I heard.

Rey
10-01-2011, 11:34 AM
Honestly, from what I've seen, McMannis is the guy I'd have out there right now. (If he's healthy)

I don't know if he plays the long ball well, but he seems to play short and medium stuff better than the Allen and Kjax. I really dislike McCain's lack of physicality, but he plays Man to Man and the deep ball well. I don't know anything about Brandon Harris on the NFL level, but from what I've seen I like how he goes up and challenges receivers for the ball....He is a physical player but I just don't know what he is about right now...

It would be nice if we could find a way to use each of these guys at what they are best at. If you have corners that are better when the field gets shorter in the redzone, play them down there....If you have guys that play long passes better, play them when you think the situation calls for it...Mix up the personnel...Get the best use out of each guy...

Carr Bombed
10-01-2011, 11:39 AM
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck and it's time to call Kareem Jackson exactly what he is.....A COMPLETE BUST.


He sucks and the sooner he is pulled from the starting lineup the faster this team can improve in the secondary. I hope he is out this week, it will be nice watching a game where he doesn't even step out on the field.

DocBar
10-01-2011, 11:45 AM
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck and it's time to call Kareem Jackson exactly what he is.....A COMPLETE BUST.


He sucks and the sooner he is pulled from the starting lineup the faster this team can improve in the secondary. I hope he is out this week, it will be nice watching a game where he doesn't even step out on the field.

He sucks at man coverage. That doesn't make him a bust as a nickel or in a zone defense.
Seeing that Quin was our best cb last season, I wouldn't be oppossed to swapping him and KJ. KJ is a good tackler and plays his best when everything's in front of him. He might have good value as a FS?

76Texan
10-01-2011, 01:05 PM
No way would I move Glover from Safety...

He is not great in man coverage, and he has been playing safety pretty well IMO. His run support from the safety position is excellent, and besides the time he was manned up on J.Grahm I don't recall him getting beat badly.

Where is McCain at? Where is McMannis? Brandon Harris? These are the guys I want to see get more playing time.

And Allen does suck at a number of things, but he is like the Steve Slaton of CB's...If he plays enough he's going to get his hands on some balls and make some things happen. It's jus that for most of the time he's in, he's sucking.

I've finished taking screen shots of all the Defensive plays.
Once again, I hate to say it, but some people is looking at the wrong scapegoat.

There are plenty of blames to spread around.
The run D, the pass rush, the LBs in coverage - they took turn with the secondary to look bad, which is normally the case when the opponent put 40 points on you.

In the secondary, Quin and Joseph had some really bad moments (but they did make some play.) Joseph also got away with a few situations.
Allen was bad in run support (he was involved in both TD runs.)
Nolan's angle and tackling remains poor. Even Manning wasn't all that hot.
Of course, Jackson was another member of that group. McCain was in the mix as well, but he was protected by the safeties the most.

gary
10-01-2011, 01:05 PM
I don't think the Texans want to make the same mistake with Harris like they made with Jackson last year which is why he has not played yet.

Rey
10-01-2011, 01:09 PM
I don't think the Texans want to make the same mistake with Harris like they made with Jackson last year which is why he has not played yet.

I think giving a first or second round corner spot duty is vastly different from annointing a guy the starter from day 0.

gary
10-01-2011, 01:14 PM
I think giving a first or second round corner spot duty is vastly different from annointing a guy the starter from day 0.Regardless Harris is still a new comer and top tier quarterbacks love those.

Rey
10-01-2011, 01:21 PM
Regardless Harris is still a new comer and top tier quarterbacks love those.

I don't understand how you can say "regardless"...

Spot duty on a decent defense with a competent D-coordinator and annointing a guy the full-time starter with unspectacular safety play and poor coaching are much different.

QB's can love what they want to love, but plenty of rookie corners have come into good situations and played ok. I don't think that the bad taste left in our mouths by kjax's rookie campaign mean we have to freeze rookie CB's now and unthaw them in a year.

TimeKiller
10-01-2011, 01:22 PM
No way! Quin has been awesome at SS!!! His run support would be missed, his coverage over the top would be missed, he was an average corner but he will be a great safety!

Carr Bombed
10-01-2011, 02:06 PM
He sucks at man coverage. That doesn't make him a bust as a nickel or in a zone defense.
Seeing that Quin was our best cb last season, I wouldn't be oppossed to swapping him and KJ. KJ is a good tackler and plays his best when everything's in front of him. He might have good value as a FS?

He was a 1st round pick, if he have to demote him to a nickelback, that makes him a bust.

gary
10-01-2011, 02:07 PM
I don't understand how you can say "regardless"...

Spot duty on a decent defense with a competent D-coordinator and annointing a guy the full-time starter with unspectacular safety play and poor coaching are much different.

QB's can love what they want to love, but plenty of rookie corners have come into good situations and played ok. I don't think that the bad taste left in our mouths by kjax's rookie campaign mean we have to freeze rookie CB's now and unthaw them in a year.Well, maybe on some plays but right now Brandon should not play full time.

Carr Bombed
10-01-2011, 02:13 PM
Well, maybe on some plays but right now Brandon should not play full time.

You let his play dictate how much time he gets. If he is out there playing solid football and making plays you leave him out there, if not you bring him along slower. Every player is different, some players just "get it"

Devin Mccourty (You know the guy we passed up for the rare opportunity to draft the "most NFL ready corner in the entire draft" :vincepalm: ) was thrown to the wolfs day 1, responded to the challenge, and the Pats never looked back.

gary
10-01-2011, 02:18 PM
You let his play dictate how much time he gets. If he is out there playing solid football and making plays you leave him out there, if not you bring him along slower. Every player is different, some players just "get it"

Devin Mccourty (You know the guy we passed up for the rare opportunity to draft the "most NFL ready corner in the entire draft" :vincepalm: ) was thrown to the wolfs day 1, responded to the challenge, and the Pats never looked back.I completely agree with you on this.

thunderkyss
10-01-2011, 02:20 PM
You let his play dictate how much time he gets. If he is out there playing solid football and making plays you leave him out there, if not you bring him along slower. Every player is different, some players just "get it"

Devin Mccourty (You know the guy we passed up for the rare opportunity to draft the "most NFL ready corner in the entire draft" :vincepalm: ) was thrown to the wolfs day 1, responded to the challenge, and the Pats never looked back.

Funny you should mention that. KJ's play has obviously been good enough up until the second half of the 4th Qtr.

& the Patriots currently have the worse pass defense in the league & if you believe the highlights, McCourty is definitely part of the reason why.

I know that is not likely to be the case for the whole season, it's the Patriots, but consider this. So far they've played the offensive juggernauts Dolphins, Chargers, & Bills.... wait a minute, only 1 of those 3 teams can be considered an offensive juggernaut.

fiasco west
10-01-2011, 02:21 PM
You don't build good football teams by yanking guys after 3 games in the season. Way to show some trust in your players coach.

If Jackson isn't playing I think a lot of people will find out that Allen isn't much better if any at all.

thunderkyss
10-01-2011, 02:22 PM
I completely agree with you on this.

I really don't think you do. You only believe this in as much as it does not pertain to KJ.

We hadn't heard from him in any of our games (which is usually a good thing for a CB), until the last few minutes of the 4th Qtr.

76Texan
10-01-2011, 02:33 PM
Funny you should mention that. KJ's play has obviously been good enough up until the second half of the 4th Qtr.

& the Patriots currently have the worse pass defense in the league & if you believe the highlights, McCourty is definitely part of the reason why.

I know that is not likely to be the case for the whole season, it's the Patriots, but consider this. So far they've played the offensive juggernauts Dolphins, Chargers, & Bills.... wait a minute, only 1 of those 3 teams can be considered an offensive juggernaut.

McCourty was burned repeatedly last year when he was put in similar situations like Jackson (I would say even worse).

He's still being burned repeatedly this year.

The other first rounder Kyle Wilson was sent to the doghouse last year, and is currently playing nickel for the Jets.

76Texan
10-01-2011, 02:36 PM
You let his play dictate how much time he gets. If he is out there playing solid football and making plays you leave him out there, if not you bring him along slower. Every player is different, some players just "get it"

Devin Mccourty (You know the guy we passed up for the rare opportunity to draft the "most NFL ready corner in the entire draft" :vincepalm: ) was thrown to the wolfs day 1, responded to the challenge, and the Pats never looked back.

No, McCourty was very well protected the majority of the time, either by a safety, a DB playing next to him, or a LB.
He was also the benificiary of some timely pressure on the QBs.

EllisUnit
10-01-2011, 02:50 PM
No, McCourty was very well protected the majority of the time, either by a safety, a DB playing next to him, or a LB.
He was also the benificiary of some timely pressure on the QBs.

and all of KJs failures are do to what ? Bad safety play ? dont answer i already know. but i dont think you can blame all the stuff in front of KJ on the safties. I guess we need to designate 4 guys to cover Jacksons ass at all times, so he cant blow it.

Carr Bombed
10-01-2011, 02:53 PM
Funny you should mention that. KJ's play has obviously been good enough up until the second half of the 4th Qtr.

& the Patriots currently have the worse pass defense in the league & if you believe the highlights, McCourty is definitely part of the reason why.

I know that is not likely to be the case for the whole season, it's the Patriots, but consider this. So far they've played the offensive juggernauts Dolphins, Chargers, & Bills.... wait a minute, only 1 of those 3 teams can be considered an offensive juggernaut.

Okay two can play this game...

Funny you should mention that. KJ's play has not been up to par and he still can't cover

& while the pats currently have the worst pass defense in the league, McCourty is a solid player for them and why are you even bringing that up when KJ was a starting CB on one of the worst pass defenses in LEAGUE HISTORY and he was the MAIN reason for that...not just "part of a reason".

I really don't get your K.J. love. You'll sit there and defend a dud to no end, but on the same hand will undermine the accomplishments of a actual good player like Antonio Smith. It doesn't make a lot of sense and frankly I don't get it.

Carr Bombed
10-01-2011, 02:56 PM
No, McCourty was very well protected the majority of the time, either by a safety, a DB playing next to him, or a LB.
He was also the benificiary of some timely pressure on the QBs.

hmm...so basically the Pats treated him like every team treats a rookie corner. Gotcha. How many rookie corners are thrown on a island in this league? The guy made a TON of plays and is hands down better than Kareem Jackson. I really don't understand your argument here?

gary
10-01-2011, 03:03 PM
I really don't think you do. You only believe this in as much as it does not pertain to KJ.

We hadn't heard from him in any of our games (which is usually a good thing for a CB), until the last few minutes of the 4th Qtr.There is not anything wrong with spotting Brandon on some plays but you should not just throw him out there if he is not ready ready yet. Corner is not easy to learn/play in the NFL. Some are ready to go from the start and a lot are not which is why I like that Gary and Wade are being careful about playing Brandon this year like they ought to be doing after last year. Good for them because obviously they don't feel like Harris is ready yet and their opinions matter a lot more than ours. Please no offense should be taken it is just the truth.

Carr Bombed
10-01-2011, 03:07 PM
Also where was this "great pass rush" for the Pats last season...they only had 6 more sacks than Houston last year and that is with 54 more pass attemps against them...which = about two extra games of pass attempts.

badboy
10-01-2011, 03:09 PM
He was a 1st round pick, if he have to demote him to a nickelback, that makes him a bust.He is on the roster, he cannot seem to play CB2, if he can start at nickle; do it.

Carr Bombed
10-01-2011, 03:14 PM
He is on the roster, he cannot seem to play CB2, if he can start at nickle; do it.

I never said he couldn't play nickle...if he can perform there then by all means, stick him there. However if we have to make him a nickleback in order to maximize his production and get something out of him......that makes him a bust as a former #1 pick. Nicklebacks aren't drafted in the 1st round. He was drafted to play on the outside for us and so far he hasn't displayed any skills that suggest that he can.

thunderkyss
10-01-2011, 03:22 PM
& while the pats currently have the worst pass defense in the league, McCourty is a good player for them and why are you even bringing that up when KJ was a starting CB on one of the worst pass defenses in LEAGUE HISTORY and he was the MAIN reason for that...not just "part of a reason".

If you truly believe KJ was the MAIN reason for our defensive performance last season there really isn't anything I can say.

McCourty is the same player he was last year, but this year he doesn't look so good. Something outside the player's own ability is affecting his perceived play.

Watch McCourty, he isn't doing anything wrong, he's very sound in what he's doing.


I really don't get your K.J. love. You'll sit there and defend a dud to no end, but on the same hand will undermine the accomplishments of a actual good player like Antonio Smith. It doesn't make a lot of sense and frankly I don't get it.

For me, it's the same as Chris Myers. I don't like it when people hate on a guy for no reason... or in this case, their arguments against said player are unfairly inflated. Don't get me wrong, those last three drives in New Orleans deserve criticism, correction, and disciplinary actions should have been taken.

& I've got absolutely nothing but love for Antonio. If you would say what you really want to say about Mario (instead of this disguised praise for Antonio) I wouldn't have to "undermine the accomplishments of a(n) actual good player"

thunderkyss
10-01-2011, 03:25 PM
I never said he couldn't play nickle...if he can perform there then by all means, stick him there. However if we have to make him a nickleback in order to maximize his production and get something out of him......that makes him a bust as a former #1 pick. Nicklebacks aren't drafted in the 1st round. He was drafted to play on the outside for us and so far he hasn't displayed any skills that suggest that he can.

So you're saying Kyle Wilson is a bust?

drunkcookie
10-01-2011, 03:28 PM
I never said he couldn't play nickle...if he can perform there then by all means, stick him there. However if we have to make him a nickleback in order to maximize his production and get something out of him......that makes him a bust as a former #1 pick. Nicklebacks aren't drafted in the 1st round. He was drafted to play on the outside for us and so far he hasn't displayed any skills that suggest that he can.

Though I'd agree he would then be a "bust" as a first rounder, I find that irrelevant... if he can help out in any way they need to make it happen, and maybe cut their losses later... He's there this year, and that's that...

Carr Bombed
10-01-2011, 03:40 PM
If you truly believe KJ was the MAIN reason for our defensive performance last season there really isn't anything I can say.

McCourty is the same player he was last year, but this year he doesn't look so good. Something outside the player's own ability is affecting his perceived play.

Watch McCourty, he isn't doing anything wrong, he's very sound in what he's doing.

The safety spot also sucked, but Jackson equally sucked...it takes a trifold of suckitude in order to field a historically bad defense. Call it the perfect storm of incompetence...but Jackson equally made up 1/3 of that storm



For me, it's the same as Chris Myers. I don't like it when people hate on a guy for no reason... or in this case, their arguments against said player are unfairly inflated. Don't get me wrong, those last three drives in New Orleans deserve criticism, correction, and disciplinary actions should have been taken.

Umm Chris Myers did struggle and was a liability early on. Whether that was because of a lack of strength, technique, or just him battling injuries, it doesn't really matter. He was a weak link and much of the criticism against him was well deserved. However kudos to him for getting stronger or healthy and taking another step in his progression. He's a self made player

& I've got absolutely nothing but love for Antonio. If you would say what you really want to say about Mario (instead of this disguised praise for Antonio) I wouldn't have to "undermine the accomplishments of a(n) actual good player"

Give me a freaking break :rolleyes: "If you would say what you really want to say about Mario". Seriously what kind of crap is that?

What a freaking joke that response is. Why is it that some people on this board try to shove words in other people's mouths in order to form some argument that benefits them? Yeah, because you know EXACTLY what I'm secretly thinking of Mario at all times.

Hey, I'M A MARIO FAN...I even have a autographed authentic helmet of his in my trophy case. I'm just not a fan of Mario the "OLBer", but go ahead and think for me and tell everybody what you think I'm thinking. Also who the hell admits to purposely undermining another player who is obviously playing well just to benefit their argument...oh wait, you do. The same guy who tries to tell people what they're thinking. :vincepalm: I didn't know Miss Cleo posted on this board.

Carr Bombed
10-01-2011, 03:42 PM
Though I'd agree he would then be a "bust" as a first rounder, I find that irrelevant... if he can help out in any way they need to make it happen, and maybe cut their losses later... He's there this year, and that's that...

And I agree with this, by all means DO IT if it helps the team...however it still doesn't change the fact that he's a bust, given where he was drafted. Sadly this has been a trend with most of R. Smith's first round selections.

thunderkyss
10-01-2011, 04:23 PM
The safety spot also sucked, but Jackson equally sucked...it takes a trifold of suckitude in order to field a historically bad defense. Call it the perfect storm of incompetence...but Jackson equally made up 1/3 of that storm

I never denied that

Umm Chris Myers did struggle and was a liability early on. Whether that was because of a lack of strength, technique, or just him battling injuries, it doesn't really matter. He was a weak link and much of the criticism against him was well deserved. However kudos to him for getting stronger or healthy and taking another step in his progression. He's a self made player

No he didn't. His improvement over the last few years is marginal.



Give me a freaking break :rolleyes: "If you would say what you really want to say about Mario". Seriously what kind of crap is that?

What a freaking joke that response is. Why is it that some people on this board try to shove words in other people's mouths in order to form some argument that benefits them. Yeah, because you know EXACTLY what I'm secretly thinking of Mario at all times.

Who is the best most consistent LB on the team? The best most consistent OL? How about the best, most consistent safety?

Who knows, & who cares? It's not a question. But we've got all these trade Mario threads & Antonio is the best DL thread & all kinds of subtle stabs at Mario.

But you're not part of that right?

Riiiiiiight.

Hey, I'M A MARIO FAN...I even have a autographed authentic helmet of his in my trophy case. I'm just not a fan of Mario the "OLBer", but go ahead and think for me and tell everybody what you think I'm thinking. Also who the hell admits to purposely undermining another player who is obviously playing well just to benefit their argument...oh wait, you do. The same guy who tries to tell people what they're thinking. :vincepalm: I didn't know Miss Cleo posted on this board.

:ohsnap: he called me Miss Cleo

drunkcookie
10-01-2011, 04:33 PM
And I agree with this, by all means DO IT if it helps the team...however it still doesn't change the fact that he's a bust, given where he was drafted. Sadly this has been a trend with most of R. Smith's first round selections.

If Kareem turns out to be a bust at #1 (which looks more than likely) then we'll add him to Okoye, that would make two of five first rounders drafted under Smith...

Brown is a great LT on one of the best olines in the league and has looked great as of late, he is NOT a bust...

Cushing? Had a great first year, bad second year and is having a good bounce-back year... we can't call him a bust yet because of one bad season out of two...

Watt? He looks great so far, but could he bust? Maybe... has he busted? No...

Far from "most"...

Carr Bombed
10-01-2011, 04:41 PM
No he didn't. His improvement over the last few years is marginal.

LMAO, umm.....no it hasn't been. He's no longer pulling his raggedy Andy routine. Feel free to continue to conveniently change history though. Conveniently changing facts or even what people said (or think) seems to be a trend with you.

Who knows, & who cares? It's not a question. But we've got all these trade Mario threads & Antonio is the best DL thread & all kinds of subtle stabs at Mario.

But you're not part of that right?

Riiiiiiight.

First of all Brian Cushing has been the best and most consistent backer on this team...not Mario.

Second what the hell are you talking about with the above quote? We get it, you get butt hurt anytime ANYBODY offers up a pinch of criticism towards Mario. "Subtle stabs at Mario". :rolleyes: Yep, you're absolutely correct. Texan fans are rooting for a fellow Texan to fail and fall flat on his face, I mean it's what's best for our team right? We get off on seeing our own players struggle.


:ohsnap: he called me Miss Cleo

Oh snap, what a copout that was. Good job at avoiding my entire response or taking any responsibility for what you were trying to imply.

Quick tell me what number I'm thinking of right now? :kubepalm:

Carr Bombed
10-01-2011, 04:44 PM
If Kareem turns out to be a bust at #1 (which looks more than likely) then we'll add him to Okoye, that would make two of five first rounders drafted under Smith...

Brown is a great LT on one of the best olines in the league and has looked great as of late, he is NOT a bust...

Cushing? Had a great first year, bad second year and is having a good bounce-back year... we can't call him a bust yet because of one bad season out of two...

Watt? He looks great so far, but could he bust? Maybe... has he busted? No...

Far from "most"...

Watt is Wade's baby. Just sayin. and while Cushing is a capable starter, he was drafted in front of Mathews who played at the same school, so I'm pretty sure they had ample opportunity to scout him also. I know, I know...hindsight is 20/20, but in hindsight Smith's 1st round selections leave much to be desired.

thunderkyss
10-01-2011, 06:16 PM
Second what the hell are you talking about with the above quote? We get it, you get butt hurt anytime ANYBODY offers up a pinch of criticism towards Mario.

Again, you're the only one who appears butt hurt

Quick tell me what number I'm thinking of right now? :kubepalm:

:thinking: 69 ?

Carr Bombed
10-01-2011, 06:32 PM
Again, you're the only one who appears butt hurt

Really, you're the one who brought Mario Williams into this discussion.


:thinking: 69 ?

Sorry, you must've picked up Texan Bill's brain waves. Your reception is a little shaky. :)

steelbtexan
10-01-2011, 06:43 PM
If Kareem turns out to be a bust at #1 (which looks more than likely) then we'll add him to Okoye, that would make two of five first rounders drafted under Smith...

Brown is a great LT on one of the best olines in the league and has looked great as of late, he is NOT a bust...

Cushing? Had a great first year, bad second year and is having a good bounce-back year... we can't call him a bust yet because of one bad season out of two...

Watt? He looks great so far, but could he bust? Maybe... has he busted? No...

Far from "most"...

Okoye=bust
Cushing= slightly above avg. (Without roids)
Brown= Slighty above avg (Not great IMHO)
Jackson= Bust
Watt= Wades pick.

So to set the record straight Rick has drafted 4 1st rd picks 2 slightly above avg players (Cushing, Brown) and 2 busts Jackson,OkOye) Batting 50% on 1st rd picks at best = FAIL. This is one of the main reasons the Texans are a medicore team at best. That and the fact that Gary can only get his team to play 2 qtrs of football.

Sorry but Rick is in over his head as a GM. Would you agree that this yrs draft was the best one since 2006? Rick didn't run the 2006 draft or the 2011 draft. (Wade ran this yrs draft) If you cant see this then we will have to agree to disagree.

Ndevine7
10-01-2011, 06:53 PM
Okoye=bust
Cushing= slightly above avg. (Without roids)
Brown= Slighty above avg (Not great IMHO)
Jackson= Bust
Watt= Wades pick.

So to set the record straight Rick has drafted 4 1st rd picks 2 slightly above avg players (Cushing, Brown) and 2 busts Jackson,OkOye) Batting 50% on 1st rd picks at best = FAIL. This is one of the main reasons the Texans are a medicore team at best. That and the fact that Gary can only get his team to play 2 qtrs of football.

Sorry but Rick is in over his head as a GM. Would you agree that this yrs draft was the best one since 2006? Rick didn't run the 2006 draft or the 2011 draft. (Wade ran this yrs draft) If you cant see this then we will have to agree to disagree.

2009 draft has potential to be a really good draft. You get your starting ILB in Cushing your starting OLB in Barwin your starting SS in Quin your starting FB in Casey and your nickelback in McCain. Not to mention you get Nolan and Caldwell two solid backups. While I dont think it rivals the 2006 draft it is probably our 2nd best draft unless late picks on this team emerge.

gary
10-01-2011, 06:57 PM
Wasn't Caldwell meant to be a starter? Yea.

steelbtexan
10-01-2011, 07:15 PM
2009 draft has potential to be a really good draft. You get your starting ILB in Cushing your starting OLB in Barwin your starting SS in Quin your starting FB in Casey and your nickelback in McCain. Not to mention you get Nolan and Caldwell two solid backups. While I dont think it rivals the 2006 draft it is probably our 2nd best draft unless late picks on this team emerge.

1. Cushing= slightly above avg
2.Barwin= avg, has potential to get better
3. Caldwell= big disappointment
4. Quin= great pick, too bad it took until yr 3 and a vet DC to put him at the proper position. S.
5. Casey= Great value pick.
6. McCain= Plays like a 6th rder, he should be the 5th CB/ST guy on a playoff team.
7. Nolan= Lucky to be on the team. Takes bad angles, this is caused by the NFL starters speed being too much for him.

As of now the 2009 draft was avg at best. IMHO With the potential to get better and be slightly above avg. Every draft you should be able to draft 1/2 great player and 2/3 depth players. Atleast tht's the formula the good teams have. Who are the great players in the 2009 draft?

thunderkyss
10-01-2011, 07:20 PM
Wasn't Caldwell meant to be a starter? Yea.

Hard to say. Seems the Texans have always liked Brisiel.... may never have thought about replacing him, same with Casey. If they were going to do anything it would have been on the right side, but they've never put him over there.

It sucks, to spend a third round pick on a back-up... but who knows with these guys.

thunderkyss
10-01-2011, 07:22 PM
7. Nolan= Lucky to be on the team. Takes bad angles, this is caused by the NFL starters speed being too much for him.

Could also be caused by not getting enough time during a real game.

As of now the 2009 draft was avg at best. IMHO With the potential to get better and be slightly above avg. Every draft you should be able to draft 1/2 great player and 2/3 depth players. Atleast tht's the formula the good teams have. Who are the great players in the 2009 draft?

I guess that's the way the Pats, the Colts, & the Jets do it right?

EllisUnit
10-01-2011, 07:28 PM
1. Cushing= slightly above avg
2.Barwin= avg, has potential to get better
3. Caldwell= big disappointment
4. Quin= great pick, too bad it took until yr 3 and a vet DC to put him at the proper position. S.
5. Casey= Great value pick.
6. McCain= Plays like a 6th rder, he should be the 5th CB/ST guy on a playoff team.
7. Nolan= Lucky to be on the team. Takes bad angles, this is caused by the NFL starters speed being too much for him.
As of now the 2009 draft was avg at best. IMHO With the potential to get better and be slightly above avg. Every draft you should be able to draft 1/2 great player and 2/3 depth players. Atleast tht's the formula the good teams have. Who are the great players in the 2009 draft?

i have to disagree, i think Nolan shows a lot of up side, and i think he has good enough speed to be a starting safety.

steelbtexan
10-01-2011, 08:13 PM
Could also be caused by not getting enough time during a real game.


I guess that's the way the Pats, the Colts, & the Jets do it right?

Pats yes

Colts, are all about Manning

Jets are a combo Mostly FA and a little bit of draft.

I was thinking mainly of the Steelers/Packer/Chargers/Saints/Falcons etc...

steelbtexan
10-01-2011, 08:17 PM
i have to disagree, i think Nolan shows a lot of up side, and i think he has good enough speed to be a starting safety.

just curious why do you think this?

If Wade agreed with you they wouldn't have given Manning all of that $$$$.

Carr Bombed
10-01-2011, 08:19 PM
just curious why do you think this?

If Wade agreed with you they wouldn't have given Manning all of that $$$$.

I think they would've given him the money regardless of what they thought about Nolan. After last season the youth movement was over in the secondary and we needed proven NFL commodities. If they had even more cap to spend i doubt Kareem would be starting right now, sadly they ran out of cap.

thunderkyss
10-01-2011, 08:23 PM
just curious why do you think this?

If Wade agreed with you they wouldn't have given Manning all of that $$$$.

I think the Texans have learned their lesson about hoping & praying for the light to click in a young players head.

We got what we needed in Manning, Glover is going to be fine. But it makes absolutely no sense to go into the season with Domonique Barber eating up a Roster spot.

We roll with Manning & Glover, if one of them get hurt, Nolan gets his chance.

However, the way they are doing it, he's getting playing time, he's getting acclimated.

On Nolan's upside, he's got a nose for the ball & he's a playmaker. If he earns a spot, we're good. If he doesn't, no big deal.

steelbtexan
10-01-2011, 08:24 PM
I think they would've given him the money regardless of what they thought about Nolan. After last season the youth movement was over in the secondary and we needed proven NFL commodities. If they had even more cap to spend i doubt Kareem would be starting right now, sadly they ran out of cap.

True

Man, I'm glad we have a proven DC. Even though I dont think he can completely rebuild the defense in one yr.

Maddict5
10-01-2011, 09:50 PM
And I agree with this, by all means DO IT if it helps the team...however it still doesn't change the fact that he's a bust, given where he was drafted. Sadly this has been a trend with most of R. Smith's first round selections.

Watt is Wade's baby. Just sayin. and while Cushing is a capable starter, he was drafted in front of Mathews who played at the same school, so I'm pretty sure they had ample opportunity to scout him also. I know, I know...hindsight is 20/20, but in hindsight Smith's 1st round selections leave much to be desired.

Im pretty sure that wasnt your original argument.....

for those counting at home that makes it 2/3 stud picks (cush- who looks back to 09 form so im going with the whole knee thing causing a down yr last yr, watt- qualify it if you must, and duane whos turned into a very nice LT for someone who iirc was a guy you said youd eat your texans hats on webcam if he ever amounted to anything the day he was drafted). btw glad to see u still like to judge way too early btw. i think that stacks up favourably or comparably to nearly anyone else in the same period bar GB

edit: and now that ive had a think about it TB & Detroit too.

Rey
10-02-2011, 12:14 AM
No he didn't. His improvement over the last few years is marginal.


I agree.

Meyers looked really bad a couple times and those instances stuck with him. Really, he has improved a bit here and there but he has not had some major transformation. He's still pretty much the same guy he has always been.

Carr Bombed
10-02-2011, 12:57 AM
I agree.

Meyers looked really bad a couple times and those instances stuck with him. Really, he has improved a bit here and there but he has not had some major transformation. He's still pretty much the same guy he has always been.

So he went from being inconsistent to consistent, yet he hasn't changed? Okay



If he didn't improve he'd still be lambasted all over the radio and local talk shows, just like he was before. The guy improved his game and shut a lot of people up. He has NOT been the same player, because if he was the "same player" he wouldn't be starting here anymore. The guy has made big improvements in his game...especially at the point of attack. (the area where he made his biggest improvement)

And for the love of god his last name is "Myers". I've been one of his biggest critics over the years and even I have to constantly remind people how to spell the dude's last name. The Texans have to be the NFL team with the most misspelled last names in the league.

Carr Bombed
10-02-2011, 01:11 AM
I'm pretty sure that wasn't your original argument.....

for those counting at home that makes it 2/3 stud picks (cush- who looks back to 09 form so I'm going with the whole knee thing causing a down yr last yr, watt- qualify it if you must, and duane who's turned into a very nice LT for someone who iirc was a guy you said youd eat your Texans hats on webcam if he ever amounted to anything the day he was drafted). BTW glad to see u still like to judge way too early BTW. i think that stacks up favorably or comparably to nearly anyone else in the same period bar GB

edit: and now that Ive had a think about it TB & Detroit too.

LMAO...you don't have a clue of who you're talking about or what you're even talking about. I was one of the O.G.'s on Duane's bandwagon and NEVER said I would "eat my hat." What the heck are you even talking about? (and who in their right mind would even do something like that? That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of) I was ALWAYS high on Duane. He's one of my favorite players on the team.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1157016

Just search my user name with Duane freaking Brown. Me and Youngtexanfan used to go back and forth on this years ago... I've been on his bandwagon for YEARS
:kubepalm:


Again here we go again...another poster who is going to stuff words into another poster's mouth. While you're doing that, I'm so glad you can tell me exactly what I was thinking with my original argument. Seriously this is getting REAL annoying. I'm spending more time explaining things that I never even said or even thought of, instead of just being able to make posts about things that I did say.



Also, in no way shape of form does Brian Cushing look anything like his '09 form. Just because he looks like a capable NFL player that does NOT return him to '09 status or anything near it. He was 20 pounds heavier in '09 and was arguably the best WOLB in the entire league. He was straight beast mode that year. Also don't mistake this comment as hating on Cushing (hell if you can call me a Duane Brown hater, I'd hate to see what you can do with my above comment about Cushing). I like Cushing, but I'm just speaking the truth. I'm just glad to see He'll be a contributor in this defense, but most likely he'll never be the absolute force that he was that year. He was unworldly that season.

Maddict5
10-02-2011, 07:46 AM
LMAO...you don't have a clue of who you're talking about or what you're even talking about. I was one of the O.G.'s on Duane's bandwagon and NEVER said I would "eat my hat." What the heck are you even talking about? (and who in their right mind would even do something like that? That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of) I was ALWAYS high on Duane. He's one of my favorite players on the team.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1157016

Just search my user name with Duane freaking Brown. Me and Youngtexanfan used to go back and forth on this years ago... I've been on his bandwagon for YEARS
:kubepalm:


Again here we go again...another poster who is going to stuff words into another poster's mouth. While you're doing that, I'm so glad you can tell me exactly what I was thinking with my original argument. Seriously this is getting REAL annoying. I'm spending more time explaining things that I never even said or even thought of, instead of just being able to make posts about things that I did say.



Also, in no way shape of form does Brian Cushing look anything like his '09 form. Just because he looks like a capable NFL player that does NOT return him to '09 status or anything near it. He was 20 pounds heavier in '09 and was arguably the best WOLB in the entire league. He was straight beast mode that year. Also don't mistake this comment as hating on Cushing (hell if you can call me a Duane Brown hater, I'd hate to see what you can do with my above comment about Cushing). I like Cushing, but I'm just speaking the truth. I'm just glad to see He'll be a contributor in this defense, but most likely he'll never be the absolute force that he was that year. He was unworldly that season.

sorry i got you mixed up with somebody else its been a few yrs since it happened. here's the post

if he turns into a franchise LT, i'll eat my texans hat live on webcam.

still no excuses, i was totally in the wrong. maybe TT idiots like myself wouldnt be so annoying if you just said 'you've got me confused wiith somebody else' instead of devouting your entire post to an essay reply on a mostly irrelevant part of my post.

now that thats over, how about the relevant stuff. let get back on track. heres the recap:

'Previously on TT'

CB: ready to throw kareem onto bust heap..becoming a rick smith trend with his first rounders

Drunkcookie: if you write off kareem already that makes that makes 2 busts in 5 yrs with the other 3 guys being called good picks at a minimum. hardly a trend

CB: discredits watt as its wades pick (eventhough i see alot of similiarities between the watt & cush picks- high effort, intensity, not very flashy picks)

and says matthews > cush (which rly has nothing to do with picks being busts and rly isnt relevant at all)

Maddict5: basically just whats in the brackets above. think CB will find rick smiths first rounders stack up fairly well with most teams leaguewide

:kitten:

oh and with cush i see what you're saying but im standing firm that hes looking like the same guy flying around the field that we saw in 09. i know he mightnt be making the same impact because 3-4 mlb's dont generally make the noise 4-3 olb's do. still that doesnt mean hes not returned to his great 09 form

thunderkyss
10-02-2011, 07:56 AM
So he went from being inconsistent to consistent, yet he hasn't changed? Okay

Myers (thanks for the spelling lesson) best attribute has been his consistency. I believe what Rey was talking about was getting beat every now & then. Like the Kris Jenkins: Rag Doll incident.

There were maybe 3 or 4 plays in that whole game that Myers botched, getting tossed was one of them. The idiots on TV talked about that one play so many times, and the "fans" here blew it out of proportion.

Getting beat by Jenkins on that play, is akin to losing a shootout to the Saints. It's bad, but for the love of God, It was one play & it was Kris Jenkins.

All those other times you saw Jenkins in the backfield, it was because he molested & abused Chester Pitts (that's right, the fan favorite). Go back & watch the game... or just accept it on the fact that Myers is here getting accolades & Pitts isn't.

If he didn't improve he'd still be lambasted all over the radio and local talk shows, just like he was before. The guy improved his game and shut a lot of people up. He has NOT been the same player, because if he was the "same player" he wouldn't be starting here anymore. The guy has made big improvements in his game...especially at the point of attack. (the area where he made his biggest improvement)



If the radio & talk show guys knew what they were talking about, Eric Winston would have been getting it much worse than Myers.... Winston is another fan favorite, as was Pitts, but both of them were much worse for our line than Chris Myers has ever been.

Brisiel & Winston have made some serious strides in their play.... obviously unnoticed by the masses. But the improvement in their play is the biggest improvement on the LOS. Duane Brown has made the usual Rookie to 3rd year player improvements. Big improvement in consistency.

If you recall, my argument used to be that Chris Myers was our most consistent OLman...... that is hardly the case now as everyone else has improved around him... he's the same old Chris, doing what he's always done about as well as he's always done it. Put Kris Jenkins in front of him for 40 or 50 snaps, chances are good that a healthy Jenkins will probably toss him at least once.

thunderkyss
10-02-2011, 08:28 AM
Also, in no way shape of form does Brian Cushing look anything like his '09 form. Just because he looks like a capable NFL player that does NOT return him to '09 status or anything near it. He was 20 pounds heavier in '09 and was arguably the best WOLB in the entire league. He was straight beast mode that year.

Wow. I was thinking, "finally, some evidence that he actually watches the games & analyze the players himself"

Then you call him the best WOLB..... he played SAM

Also don't mistake this comment as hating on Cushing (hell if you can call me a Duane Brown hater, I'd hate to see what you can do with my above comment about Cushing). I like Cushing, but I'm just speaking the truth. I'm just glad to see He'll be a contributor in this defense, but most likely he'll never be the absolute force that he was that year. He was unworldly that season.

I've got no problem with honest, truthful criticism of any player. I'm even willing to believe my opinion may be baseless. But any time a group of people consistently berates one particular player, I pay more attention... I go back & look at as many games as I can. In Chris Myers case, I looked at two seasons worth of plays & would wonder, why is everybody talking about this guy & not Pitts & Winston, those guys suck in comparison.

In KJs case, I watched several of his games from Alabama & I watched every one of the 2010 games. I think his biggest problem is that he is not the kind of corner the fans want. He'll never be Revis or Cromartie. He's never going to be in the hip pocket of one of the fastest receivers streaking down the field for 30-40 yards... He needs help....

Even on that 94 yard drive by the Saints last Sunday... he kept getting beat by the quick Slant. Well, there are two ways that could have been fixed. They could have put a LB in the middle of the field to take away that lane, or they could have put Jackson closer to the LOS.

Putting Jackson closer to the LOS was much more dangerous, because they were in 0 coverage. & he knew he was going to get beat by Lance Moore if he played to close. I would have put a LB in the passing lane. But, once Kubiak said they expected the CBs to play more aggressive, I dropped my preference & said that's what they were supposed to do.

Will he ever be 1st round pick good....... I don't know. Will he ever be a capable starter? I think he's pretty good inside of 30 yards. If there is no pressure on the QB, consider him beat after that. But, I think that is true for all but a rare few CBs.

Rey
10-02-2011, 09:12 AM
Myers (thanks for the spelling lesson) best attribute has been his consistency. I believe what Rey was talking about was getting beat every now & then. Like the Kris Jenkins: Rag Doll incident.

There were maybe 3 or 4 plays in that whole game that Myers botched, getting tossed was one of them. The idiots on TV talked about that one play so many times, and the "fans" here blew it out of proportion.
.

Yep.

Dude had a couple really bad moments and it stuck with him. Kudos to Meyers for shaking off that "sucks" label. . .even though he never really sucked in the first place.

EllisUnit
10-02-2011, 11:04 AM
just curious why do you think this?

If Wade agreed with you they wouldn't have given Manning all of that $$$$.

if we hadnt signed manning then who would of been all of our safties ? Quin, Nolan and then who. Regardless we still needed another quality safety and we got manning at a fair price. So why wouldnt they have signed manning ?

Carr Bombed
10-02-2011, 11:49 AM
Wow. I was thinking, "finally, some evidence that he actually watches the games & analyze the players himself"

Then you call him the best WOLB..... he played SAM.

Yep you're right....just because I mentioned the wrong position, I haven't watched any games. I'm just some moron who has written 11,000 posts about the Texans over 8+ years, but haven't watched game 1. My bad, I'll work on that and start tuning in.


I've got no problem with honest, truthful criticism of any player. I'm even willing to believe my opinion may be baseless. But any time a group of people consistently berates one particular player, I pay more attention... I go back & look at as many games as I can. In Chris Myers case, I looked at two seasons worth of plays & would wonder, why is everybody talking about this guy & not Pitts & Winston, those guys suck in comparison.

That is great and all, but I'm NOT a "group of people". My thoughts and opinions are my own, so stop trying to lump me in with every single "hater" on this board and stop trying to attack me just because you are upset with "groups"

Also Chris Myers did mightedly struggle early on, you revisionist historians are cracking me up with your attempt to try to white wash his early struggles...it simply isn't true.

In KJs case, I watched several of his games from Alabama & I watched every one of the 2010 games. I think his biggest problem is that he is not the kind of corner the fans want. He'll never be Revis or Cromartie. He's never going to be in the hip pocket of one of the fastest receivers streaking down the field for 30-40 yards... He needs help.....

Finally something we agree on...hell no he's not the corner that fans want. We want a corner who's actually competent on the outside and actually has the ability to IDK...cover. Nobody here is calling for the guy to be Revis, infact I haven't heard that once.

Carr Bombed
10-02-2011, 11:51 AM
Yep.

Dude had a couple really bad moments and it stuck with him. Kudos to Meyers for shaking off that "sucks" label. . .even though he never really sucked in the first place.

Dude had a LOT more than just a "couple of real bad moments".

He was consistently pushed back like the french army early on. Why can't people admit that. He is a MUCH better player today than he was a couple of years ago.

EllisUnit
10-02-2011, 11:57 AM
Dude had a LOT more than just a "couple of real bad moments".

He was consistently pushed back like the french army early on. Why can't people admit that. He is a MUCH better player today than he was a couple of years ago.

i agree. He was a scrub, he has vastly improved since his early days. Now Myers deserves to be the starter IMO. He put in a lot of work to get where he is.

Carr Bombed
10-02-2011, 12:03 PM
sorry i got you mixed up with somebody else its been a few yrs since it happened. here's the post



still no excuses, i was totally in the wrong. maybe TT idiots like myself wouldn't be so annoying if you just said 'you've got me confused with somebody else' instead of devoting your entire post to an essay reply on a mostly irrelevant part of my post.

I wouldn't call you a idiot, you're too tough on yourself. I also wouldn't have written that "essay" if that wasn't pretty much your entire post. If that was the irrelevant part of your post that means that whole post was pretty much irrelevant.

Doesn't matter though, Duane Brown is one of the most underrated LTs in the game and is a absolute beast in the run blocking department. With his athleticism and quickness he can get to spots downfield that other LTs couldn't do in their dreams. I'm VERY HIGH on him. If he can finally figure out the Freeney puzzle (small quick speed rushers) he'll be well on his way to a probowl.


oh and with cush i see what you're saying but I'm standing firm that hes looking like the same guy flying around the field that we saw in 09. i know he mightnt be making the same impact because 3-4 mlb's don't generally make the noise 4-3 olb's do. still that doesn't mean hes not returned to his great 09 form

He's a good player and I'm happy for that, we're going to get production out of him and he's going to contribute to this team. However in '09 he didn't just look like a good player....he was a special player. In all honesty he looked like a future DPOY candidate that year.

Maddict5
10-02-2011, 12:17 PM
I wouldn't call you a idiot, you're too tough on yourself. I also wouldn't have written that "essay" if that wasn't pretty much your entire post. If that was the irrelevant part of your post that means that whole post was pretty much irrelevant.



He's a good player and I'm happy for that, we're going to get production out of him and he's going to contribute to this team. However in '09 he didn't just look like a good player....he was a special player. In all honesty he looked like a future DPOY candidate that year.

the whole part about rick smith 1st rd draft record and how picking busts is not rly a trend at all. you seem to have little interest in arguing this since drunkcookie & myself called you on it

cush looked great in 09 no doubt flying around the field like a missile and putting up huge stats but he put up alot of his stats v the like of the bills/hawks/bengals. so far in 2011, hes flying around the field. i think the stats will come the more he plays. he could still be a special player. still a very good pick given that most of that first rd turned out pretty rubbish

Carr Bombed
10-02-2011, 12:33 PM
the whole part about rick smith 1st rd draft record and how picking busts is not rly a trend at all. you seem to have little interest in arguing this since drunkcookie & myself called you on it

cush looked great in 09 no doubt flying around the field like a missile and putting up huge stats but he put up alot of his stats v the like of the bills/hawks/bengals. so far in 2011, hes flying around the field. i think the stats will come the more he plays. he could still be a special player. still a very good pick given that most of that first rd turned out pretty rubbish

Umm actually I have no problem "arguing that" any you and whoever haven't called me on anything.

I have no problem saying Rick Smith's 1st round picks have been lackluster, because it's true.

The only reason why Duane Brown is here is, because of Alex Gibbs who hand picked him, J.J. Watt is playing on this team because of Wade Phillips...what else do you have?

As far as Brian Cushing goes, who the heck is talking about stats...I'm talking about his performance and moving inside or not...he simply isn't close to be the same player that he was in '09. Frankly it's disingenuous to suggest that he is, because it isn't true at all. the guy was 20 POUND HEAVIER and was a much BIGGER hitter that year. That alone makes him a different player this year.

Maddict5
10-02-2011, 12:52 PM
Umm actually I have no problem "arguing that" any you and whoever haven't called me on anything.

I have no problem saying Rick Smith's 1st round picks have been lackluster, because it's true.

The only reason why Duane Brown is here is, because of Alex Gibbs who hand picked him, J.J. Watt is playing on this team because of Wade Phillips...what else do you have?

As far as Brian Cushing goes, who the heck is talking about stats...I'm talking about his performance and moving inside or not...he simply isn't close to be the same player that he was in '09. Frankly it's disingenuous to suggest that he is, because it isn't true at all. the guy was 20 POUND HEAVIER and was a much BIGGER hitter that year. That alone makes him a different player this year.

3 good-great players inc a DROTY (and possibly 2 in a few months), 2 underwhelmers/bad picks (neither been total busts though) in 5 years isnt bad. ha so smith only gets full credit from you for the bad picks and only part credit for the good ones ? gotcha! maybe i wont bother arguing it with you so actually

who cares if he was heavier? hes still flying around driving guys back

Carr Bombed
10-02-2011, 12:59 PM
3 good-great players inc a DROTY (and possibly 2 in a few months), 2 underwhelmers/bad picks (neither been total busts though) in 5 years isnt bad. ha so smith only gets full credit from you for the bad picks and only part credit for the good ones ? gotcha! maybe i wont bother arguing it with you so actually

who cares if he was heavier? hes still flying around driving guys back

Oh lord.

What good does it do listing Cush as a former DROY when he's clearly lost 20 pounds of mass and is not remotely the same type of player? :vincepalm: It's like talking about how hot Kirstie Alley is 20 years after the fact. He has a completely different body type and is a completely different player today.

Also feel free to not "argue" with me, because the feeling is mutual...I don't care to argue with people who won't even acknowledge how Cushing has transformed or with people who recklessly lash out at people and excuse them of things that they never said. Good day, the game is about to start so I'm done here.

Rey
10-02-2011, 01:37 PM
i agree. He was a scrub, he has vastly improved since his early days. Now Myers deserves to be the starter IMO. He put in a lot of work to get where he is.

I disagree. He's always been a good run blocker in this scheme. He struggled a bit with protecting against big dominant dts like Haynesworth, Jenkins, Hampton but to say He sucked is just incorrect IMO. He had a couple terrible moments but he did a lot of other things well.