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View Full Version : This team is a lesser version of the Run-N-Shoot Oilers


GP
09-28-2011, 10:57 AM
Schaub in the role of Warren Moon (lots of passing yards every year), Tate looks very Lorenzo White to me, multiple WR sets and various ways to use them, and a shaky defense that can't stay off the field.

The only difference is that Buddy Ryan came along and shored up the defense, and it made the Oilers dangerous on a new level. Wade is trying to shore up the defense in the same manner.

I dunno. I just watched us in the shoot-out with the Saints, and I watched #44 rumbling through there making some nice runs, and AJ and other WRs/TEs lighting it up with Schaub slinging the ball....and it made me remember the Oilers. Care to discuss? I was a young'un in the Run-N-Shoot era, but it looks eerily similar when I remember watching them play on TV.

Oh, and there was this coach back then who stood pretty stoically on the sideline and was revered as being a genius with an offense. (Sigh.......)

eriadoc
09-28-2011, 11:02 AM
Well, they don't really run as much RnS as other teams. The Pats are basically a Run-n-Shoot team, for instance. There's not much difference between those old Oiler teams and the Pats of the last 4-5 years. The Texans don't really go that route. I kind of get what you're saying in terms of feel, but I liken this team to the SB-winning Saints, although to a lesser degree. They have a powerful offense (though not as good as the Saints that year), and they have a pretty poor defense in terms of yardage, but they get turnovers. I think at the end of this year, you'll see the Texans have quite a few turnovers and have won games because of it. I don't think the Texans are good enough to go to the SB, however. It's a weird league though, so you never know.

Vinny
09-28-2011, 11:08 AM
The Oilers made the playoffs 7 straight years back then. Minor difference.

GP
09-28-2011, 11:47 AM
The Oilers made the playoffs 7 straight years back then. Minor difference.

Yup, which is why I wisely prefaced my title with the word "LESSER."

It's a knockoff version, IMO. Except in my opinion Warren Moon runs circles around Matt Schaub. He had velocity, timing, accuracy, and split-second decision-making that Matt does not possess to the same degree.

I remember the Oilers defense being dominant and downright nasty. We knocked out Jim Kelly in the Astrodome toward the end of the regular season, only to have Frank Reich beat us in the playoffs as a result of Kelly being out. That's how it went down, right? I don't see our current defense being able to hold a candle to the old Oilers House of Pain.

GP
09-28-2011, 11:50 AM
Well, they don't really run as much RnS as other teams. The Pats are basically a Run-n-Shoot team, for instance. There's not much difference between those old Oiler teams and the Pats of the last 4-5 years. The Texans don't really go that route. I kind of get what you're saying in terms of feel, but I liken this team to the SB-winning Saints, although to a lesser degree. They have a powerful offense (though not as good as the Saints that year), and they have a pretty poor defense in terms of yardage, but they get turnovers. I think at the end of this year, you'll see the Texans have quite a few turnovers and have won games because of it. I don't think the Texans are good enough to go to the SB, however. It's a weird league though, so you never know.

You're correct, sir, on the issue of "run" in the Run-N-Shoot vs. the run we use today in Kubiak's offense. I agree.

I remember the Oilers using the screen pass (Lorenzo White, and then later Gary Brown) as a form of the "run" and they used the screen pass with DEVASTATING results. If White or Brown got their hands on the ball in a screen pass, it was almost a guaranteed 20+ yard play, the linemen would destroy defenders and the two RBs, respectively, would bowl over anybody remaining in their way. That was my favorite play back then: The screen pass! You could just see the defense go "Oh shit..." when it swing out there.

Corrosion
09-28-2011, 12:31 PM
Every time I think of the Chuck and Duck I think of 35-3 ..... :choke:

badboy
09-28-2011, 01:00 PM
The Oilers in my memory (LOL) were much more focused on spreading the ball to WRs than Texans who basically use AJ then TEs. Texans much deeper and stronger in running game and divide the ball much more evenly. Oilers often used 4 WRs. I prefer Texans offense. I'd like to see Texans defense more aggressive like Oilers. Seemed Bud's philosophy was to put "hats" on the ball. If away from the ball, block someone. I don't see that with this team..yet.

Hervoyel
09-28-2011, 01:04 PM
Texans are nothing like the R&S Oilers despite the superficial resemblence flashed during the Saints game.

Hookem Horns
09-28-2011, 01:08 PM
The Oilers made the playoffs 7 straight years back then. Minor difference.

This. So the question is what is more painful, not making the playoffs for 7 years (10 in our case) or making the playoffs for 7 straight years and choking once there?

El Tejano
09-28-2011, 01:37 PM
This. So the question is what is more painful, not making the playoffs for 7 years (10 in our case) or making the playoffs for 7 straight years and choking once there?

Choking. Was there for all 7 of those years. It was heart breaking.

Double Barrel
09-28-2011, 01:38 PM
The R&S Oilers did not have a TE or FB on the roster. They were unable to consistently run the ball, which is why they blew a 33 point lead in a playoff game.

Buddy Ryan helped us for one season, after the 35-3 debacle and firing of Jim Eddy. The next season started 1-4, iirc, and they they won 11 in a row to make the playoffs.

I'm not seeing the comparisons, from either a success standpoint (i.e. 7 years of playoff appearances) or from a strategy standpoint. The run and shoot is completely different offense than the west coast.

Hookem Horns
09-28-2011, 01:50 PM
Keeping in comparisons. You're starting a team. Who do you take?

Jack Pardee w/ Kevin Gilbride or Gary Kubiak?

Buddy Ryan or Wade Phillips?

Warren Moon or Matt Schaub?

Givens/Jeffires/Duncan/Hill or Andre Johnson?

Lorenzo White or Arian Foster?

Bruce Matthews or entire current starting Texans o line?

Al Smith or Demeco Ryans?

Ray Childress or JJ Watt?

Chris Dishman or Johnathan Joseph?

Al Del Greco or Neil Rackers?

HTown2ATX
09-28-2011, 01:51 PM
In either case, as much as I loved the old R&S Oiler days, as far as position comparisons then and now........believe me I effing LOVED me some Heywood Jeffries and Ernest Givens (who I used to endlessly torch people on some Tecmo Super Bowl back in the day!!!)....but I'll trade both for The Manchild Andre Johnson....beater of punk ass hoes named Cortland Innegan and dominator of defenses!!!!!!

In fact....imagine if 'Dre had been on the team then...... :drool:

/end

Hervoyel
09-28-2011, 02:20 PM
Keeping in comparisons. You're starting a team. Who do you take?

Jack Pardee w/ Kevin Gilbride or Gary Kubiak?

Buddy Ryan or Wade Phillips?

Warren Moon or Matt Schaub?

Givens/Jeffires/Duncan/Hill or Andre Johnson?

Lorenzo White or Arian Foster?

Bruce Matthews or entire current starting Texans o line?

Al Smith or Demeco Ryans?

Ray Childress or JJ Watt?

Chris Dishman or Johnathan Joseph?

Al Del Greco or Neil Rackers?

1. Pardee & Gilbride but no R&S offense, I KNOW they can both coach other systems.

2. Buddy Ryan

3. Warren Moon.

4. Andre Johnson

5. Arian Foster

6. Bruce Matthews

7. DeMeco Ryans (pre-injury)

8. Flip a coin (between Childress or Watt). You can't go wrong.

9. Joseph over Dishman. I always hated Dishman

10. Rackers, never a fan of "The Geek".

Texan_Bill
09-28-2011, 02:22 PM
Keeping in comparisons. You're starting a team. Who do you take?

Jack Pardee w/ Kevin Gilbride or Gary Kubiak? Kevin Gilbride

Buddy Ryan or Wade Phillips? Buddy

Warren Moon or Matt Schaub? Push - Neither were or are able to get it done

Givens/Jeffires/Duncan/Hill or Andre Johnson? AJ, although that set of recievers were very good.

Lorenzo White or Arian Foster? Tough one, AF ?

Bruce Matthews or entire current starting Texans o line? Would've said Bruce - but he's a tinnbred

Al Smith or Demeco Ryans? Al Smith, but not by much

Ray Childress or JJ Watt? Watt 3:16 - Childress pissed me off

Chris Dishman or Johnathan Joseph? I might go Cris

Al Del Greco or Neil Rackers?Who cares about kickers? ;)



My answers, Hookem!

HOU-TEX
09-28-2011, 02:24 PM
Keeping in comparisons. You're starting a team. Who do you take?

Jack Pardee w/ Kevin Gilbride or Gary Kubiak? Pardee & Gilbride

Buddy Ryan or Wade Phillips? Buddy Ryan

Warren Moon or Matt Schaub? Moon

Givens/Jeffires/Duncan/Hill or Andre Johnson? AJ

Lorenzo White or Arian Foster? Arian Foster

Bruce Matthews or entire current starting Texans o line? Bruce Mathews

Al Smith or Demeco Ryans? D-Ryans

Ray Childress or JJ Watt? Childress (maybe Watt in a couple years)

Chris Dishman or Johnathan Joseph? Joseph

Al Del Greco or Neil Rackers? Del Greco

In blue

Texan_Bill
09-28-2011, 02:29 PM
In blue

Hellz to the no with Pardee

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/595/658/286264_display_image.jpg?1293499070

Him always jacking with his headset!

Vinny
09-28-2011, 02:30 PM
the headset that wasn't plugged in.

Texan_Bill
09-28-2011, 02:31 PM
the headset that wasn't plugged in.

Right!! LMAO!

Funny how we remember stuff like that.

HOU-TEX
09-28-2011, 02:34 PM
Hellz to the no with Pardee


Him always jacking with his headset!

Pardee got the Oilers much further than what we've seen from this organization. I was not a fan of the R & S, but damn, I don't want to suck anymore.

Texan_Bill
09-28-2011, 02:38 PM
Pardee got the Oilers much further than what we've seen from this organization. I was not a fan of the R & S, but damn, I don't want to suck anymore.

In all fairness to the "Jerk in Black" he started that playoff run.

TexansFight
09-28-2011, 02:52 PM
The Houston Oilers were no joke my the first love. My family had season tickets to the Oilers and there was nothing more I liked than going to a game at the House of Pain. I grew up with the Run N Shoot Oilers during my middle school through high school years. I was a freshman in college and was devastated when we lost to the Chiefs in the playoffs after going 12-4. That was the last time a Houston NFL team made the playoffs 18 FRIGGING YEARS AGO AND COUNTING.

I mention all of the above to say that I have a lot of nostalgia and fond memories for the Oilers. That being said the Texans offense IS BETTER than any of the R&S Oilers even with this year's red zone issues. Talent at RB I'd better than any of the backs we had with the Oilers and Andre Johnson is leagues better than any WR with the Oilers. The multiple formations and heavy use of the tight end which the R&S didn't even have is another reason for its superiority. Moon is better than Schaub

CloakNNNdagger
09-28-2011, 02:56 PM
Both QBs have record total passing yards. But the most contrasting characteristic in comparing the Run and Shoot Oilers was the "excitement factor." Moon's canon arm would allow him to rack up the yards with a very healthy dose of throws into the next zip code.

disaacks3
09-28-2011, 03:05 PM
Keeping in comparisons. You're starting a team. Who do you take?

Jack Pardee w/ Kevin Gilbride or Gary Kubiak? Kubiak, yes I really mean that.

Buddy Ryan or Wade Phillips? Buddy Ryan, no question

Warren Moon or Matt Schaub? Schaub, I've already seen Moon choke in the playoffs.

Givens/Jeffires/Duncan/Hill or Andre Johnson? AJ, all day, every day.

Lorenzo White or Arian Foster? Arian Foster, Lorenzo is closer to Tate running-wise.

Bruce Matthews or entire current starting Texans o line? Matthews..can we clone him?

Al Smith or Demeco Ryans? Meco (when healthy)

Ray Childress or JJ Watt? Ray Childress, Watt isn't near HoF material yet.

Chris Dishman or Johnathan Joseph? Dishman - more athleticism, more penalties too, but...

Al Del Greco or Neil Rackers? Toughest choice....Rackers by a Whisker. My choices in bold.

TexansFanatic
09-28-2011, 03:18 PM
I would trade everything about the team we have in Houston today for the Oilers team that crapped its collective pants in Buffalo in 1993 provided that team wasn't owned by Bud Adams.

Bud is the dealbreaker.

To me, getting rid of Bud in exchange for the Houston Texans was the deal of the century.

hradhak
09-28-2011, 04:52 PM
R&S can eat up yards like crazy, but it doesn't utilize a TE much.
Our system is essentially AJ and 3 TEs. Also the run is an afterthought in R&S

That being said, the pass completion % was much lower back then. All these West Coast style offenses increased the pass completion % to the point where you could throw to replace the run (New England style)

The more pass happy league of today compared to the R&S era is probably more appealing to the average fan since every team is putting up 300+ yards. That probably has a lot to do with the rules the NFL has put in to protect QBs and receivers

Big Lou
09-28-2011, 05:27 PM
Here come the Jack Pardee signatures!!!!!!!!

Big Lou
09-28-2011, 05:29 PM
Its funny you posted this because this is all I could think by halftime, I was going to post something similar Sunday, but I swore off the forum for a couple of days.

GP
09-28-2011, 05:36 PM
I don't know how people are choosing JJ Watt over Ray Childress. Mind boggling.

AJ, Rackers, and Foster are my only Texans that override the Oilers players listed. I even like Al Smith over 'Meco.

rush2112mn
09-28-2011, 06:28 PM
Oilers.....are you a closet titans fan?....lmfao.......

DocBar
09-28-2011, 07:17 PM
In all fairness to the "Jerk in Black" he started that playoff run.No Oilers coach got the team further than Bum did after the '78, '79 and '80 seasons. Back to back AFCC games. I'd take him in his prime over Glanville or Pardee and put Wade as DC since we're in fantasy land.
I'd also take the late '70's D over every other D an Oilers or Texans team has fielded before or after. Since I'm in fantasy land, I can magically make those late '70's players match up physically with modern day football players.

SAMURAITEXAN
09-28-2011, 08:55 PM
Hellz to the no with Pardee

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/595/658/286264_display_image.jpg?1293499070

Him always jacking with his headset!

He wan't calling the play. He was talking to his wife about dinner and sometimes he listened some music.

DocBar
09-28-2011, 10:37 PM
He wan't calling the play. He was talking to his wife about dinner and sometimes he listened some music.Were you old enough to watch the Oilers back then? I think you were stil shatting yourself.

badboy
09-28-2011, 10:38 PM
This. So the question is what is more painful, not making the playoffs for 7 years (10 in our case) or making the playoffs for 7 straight years and choking once there?'Tis better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all.

SAMURAITEXAN
09-28-2011, 11:26 PM
Were you old enough to watch the Oilers back then? I think you were stil shatting yourself.

Yes I am old DocBar and yes I am a lot older than you. I went to Astrodome after AFC Championship vs Steelers(I drove myself to get there). If that gives you idea of how old I am.

Go Texans!!!

ObsiWan
09-29-2011, 03:19 AM
Keeping in comparisons. You're starting a team. Who do you take?

Jack Pardee w/ Kevin Gilbride or Gary Kubiak w/Rick Dennison? (this decision was based on the offense each ran, not coaching ability - the Gilbride offense has a limited ability to run the ball)

Buddy Ryan or Wade Phillips? (Buddy is crazy)

Warren Moon or Matt Schaub? (Moon in a heartbeat! Stronger arm and is more mobile)

Givens/Jeffires/Duncan/Hill or Andre Johnson/Kevin Walter/Owen Daniels/J.Jones/James Casey? (more offensive flexibility; although I'd swap J.Jones for Givens or Duncan in a heartbeat)

Lorenzo White or Arian Foster? This was a toughie. White's probably stronger but Foster is smoother, shiftier, and maybe faster. Who knows how much more effective White could have been with a lead FB)

Bruce Matthews and Mike Munchak or entire current starting Texans o line? (but can I keep Duane Brown :) )

Al Smith or Demeco Ryans? (this was another toughie)

Ray Childress or JJ Watt? (ask me again in a few years; - interestingly Sean Jones actually had more career sacks than Childress; 113 to 76. I was quite surprised when I looked that up)

Chris Dishman or Johnathan Joseph? (can I swap Dishman for K.J.? Please...?)

Al Del Greco or Neil Rackers? Rackers can kick it out of the endzone, I never recall Del Greco having that kind of leg; plus Racers will make tackles

My choices are bolded

Double Barrel
09-29-2011, 01:04 PM
He wan't calling the play. He was talking to his wife about dinner and sometimes he listened some music.

He certainly wasn't calling plays. Vinny alluded to it earlier in this thread, but Bud wanted Pardee to "look more like a coach", so made him wear a headset that wasn't plugged in.

SAMURAITEXAN
09-29-2011, 10:32 PM
He certainly wasn't calling plays. Vinny alluded to it earlier in this thread, but Bud wanted Pardee to "look more like a coach", so made him wear a headset that wasn't plugged in.

Ha ha. Their O was crazy and exciting IMO. For me, I liked Bum' Oilers era the most. He had a charisma and the players like #34,#00,#52 and so on.

Go Texans!!!