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Joe Texan
09-27-2011, 09:59 AM
since we took Kubes from Denver we have had trouble punching in the endzone of our opponents. Is it because Gary calls all the plays and calls the formations or does Schaub have the authority to change the play at the line of scrimage. Are the Texans hands tied to the coach in the red zone. I understand that the blocking schemes have to be precise to work and when they do I could be the running back. Bt just like this last game seems we threw out the run for the pass.

I am just asking cause we have several years of this same problem and it is not anything to do with the Defense, except that they got very tired after several 3 and outs at the end of the game.

Does anybody hold Gary accountable or is it always the offence or defense and the coach is excused.

Mr teX
09-27-2011, 10:04 AM
If you wanted to speak with Steelbtexan or Dexman C you should just PM those guys.

HOU-TEX
09-27-2011, 10:07 AM
I think it has a lot to do with the blocking scheme. There's less room to work their synchronicity as a unit. They aren't big enough to get the push.

However, I'm going to wait until Foster's back in the back field before I panic too much. Dude can find seams that others can't. 16 TD's ain't too shabby either

badboy
09-27-2011, 10:19 AM
Just a guess but if it is a run play the FB will block and the RB handles the ball. I know the QB can keep but that is rare for Texans. If it is a pass, ball can go to WR or TE (3-4 options rather than one). Also if the Qb runs laterally, he can dart toward the goal line, drawing the defense to him thereby reducing the defenders in area of the target. In the past, I think many fans would just as soon see a pass to AJ, Walter or Daniel than a handoff to RB.

Hervoyel
09-27-2011, 10:39 AM
since we took Kubes from Denver we have had trouble punching in the endzone of our opponents. Is it because Gary calls all the plays and calls the formations or does Schaub have the authority to change the play at the line of scrimage. Are the Texans hands tied to the coach in the red zone. I understand that the blocking schemes have to be precise to work and when they do I could be the running back. Bt just like this last game seems we threw out the run for the pass.

I am just asking cause we have several years of this same problem and it is not anything to do with the Defense, except that they got very tired after several 3 and outs at the end of the game.

Does anybody hold Gary accountable or is it always the offence or defense and the coach is excused.


Careful, somebody gonna give you some pink soap if you keep this up.

bigbrewster2000
09-27-2011, 10:42 AM
It seems more like a "we don't have a healthy Arian Foster" problem to me

beerlover
09-27-2011, 10:48 AM
It seems more like a "we don't have a healthy Arian Foster" problem to me

or a Vonta Leach lead blocker :bowser:

steelbtexan
09-27-2011, 11:09 AM
If you wanted to speak with Steelbtexan, you should just send him a PM.

LOL

I will reserve judgement until after Foster is healthy on the RZ efficiency.

Last yr the Texans were good in the RZ. If there's a problem then it's all on Gary. Either by not giving Schaub flexability or even if he does Gary is the one that hand pick Rick Smith and probaby has the last say during the draft and FA.

This is Garys team and like talking about the CB's not playing the defense that was called. The Texans have taken on Garys personality. Garys kids are undisciplened. But they're great kids that try their hardest. Meanwhile after 5.2 yrs of the same crap over and over again. People on this MB are still in Garys corner hoping that this yr is going to be different. (Not gonna happen)

Even though Gary will probably make the playoffs this yr due to being in a ridiciously weak division. BoBBY will give Gary another extention and the fans will still be stuck for yrs with a team that only plays 2qtrs of football for yrs to come. (Worse cas scenario)

The big question is can Gary lead this team to a Lombardi trophy? 5.2 yrs would suggest this isn't going to happen. There's no telling how many more losing/underachieving seasons will have to happen before Gary supporters will see the light. Some probably never will.

Exciting close losses may be good enough for some. But it's all about W/L's for me. Who really believes Gary can lead this team to a SB and is being honest with themselves. All of the wishful thinking/hoping for change is great. But history is what it is and you cant get around these facts. It's all about W/L's not about stats/recognition etc....

Texan_Bill
09-27-2011, 11:21 AM
I think it has a lot to do with the blocking scheme. There's less room to work their synchronicity as a unit. They aren't big enough to get the push.

However, I'm going to wait until Foster's back in the back field before I panic too much. Dude can find seams that others can't. 16 TD's ain't too shabby either

Funny, there was an NFL analyst from Yahoo Sports on 1560 this morning who considers the Texans O-line the best in the League with both the pass and run. He also considers this years Red Zone woes to the absence of AF.

Texan_Bill
09-27-2011, 11:22 AM
since we took Kubes from Denver we have had trouble punching in the endzone of our opponents. Is it because Gary calls all the plays and calls the formations or does Schaub have the authority to change the play at the line of scrimage. Are the Texans hands tied to the coach in the red zone. I understand that the blocking schemes have to be precise to work and when they do I could be the running back. Bt just like this last game seems we threw out the run for the pass.

I am just asking cause we have several years of this same problem and it is not anything to do with the Defense, except that they got very tired after several 3 and outs at the end of the game.

Does anybody hold Gary accountable or is it always the offence or defense and the coach is excused.

Huh? Giving up 23 points in the final quarter has A LOT to do with defense. And please don't try the 3 and out routine. Remember HWSNBN and his 3 & out woes. That defense never gave up 23 points in the final quarter. In fact, that (past Sunday) was the first time in Texans history IIRC.

Thorn
09-27-2011, 11:29 AM
LOL

I will reserve judgement until after Foster is healthy on the RZ efficiency.

Last yr the Texans were good in the RZ. If there's a problem then it's all on Gary. Either by not giving Schaub flexability or even if he does Gary is the one that hand pick Rick Smith and probaby has the last say during the draft and FA.

This is Garys team and like talking about the CB's not playing the defense that was called. The Texans have taken on Garys personality. Garys kids are undisciplened. But they're great kids that try their hardest. Meanwhile after 5.2 yrs of the same crap over and over again. People on this MB are still in Garys corner hoping that this yr is going to be different. (Not gonna happen)

Even though Gary will probably make the playoffs this yr due to being in a ridiciously weak division. BoBBY will give Gary another extention and the fans will still be stuck for yrs with a team that only plays 2qtrs of football for yrs to come. (Worse cas scenario)

The big question is can Gary lead this team to a Lombardi trophy? 5.2 yrs would suggest this isn't going to happen. There's no telling how many more losing/underachieving seasons will have to happen before Gary supporters will see the light. Some probably never will.

Exciting close losses may be good enough for some. But it's all about W/L's for me. Who really believes Gary can lead this team to a SB and is being honest with themselves. All of the wishful thinking/hoping for chage is great. But history is what it is and you cant get around these facts. It's all about W/L's not about stats/recognition etc....

Not a lot I would disagree with here. But for now, I've temporarly set aside my Kubiak hate and chose to cheer the Texans on. If there comes a point this season that it looks like all the other seasons Kubiak has brought us, I'll be back pounding on Kubiak's case like there was no tomorrow.

He shouldn't even be here this season, but he is, and I've decieded to live with it for now.

Joe Texan
09-27-2011, 12:13 PM
I am not canning Gary Just seems to me every year i the same old same old. We got a team that would run a great Mike Leach offense and we have Gary Kubiak who I still cannot figure out what he is doing. And when you go 3 and Out Bill you put the defense back on the feild and Drew Breeze spreads the feild so it wears on a defense. just seems to me that if we are gonna run the run damit. I am mad at the fact that we let a game slip again. If thi is the norm I predict we will not make the playoffs, we need Hope And Change and All I see is the same Old Same Old

Double Barrel
09-27-2011, 12:15 PM
http://nathan-lee.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/etTuBrute.jpg

Mr teX
09-27-2011, 12:19 PM
LOL

I will reserve judgement until after Foster is healthy on the RZ efficiency.

Last yr the Texans were good in the RZ. If there's a problem then it's all on Gary. Either by not giving Schaub flexability or even if he does Gary is the one that hand pick Rick Smith and probaby has the last say during the draft and FA.

This is Garys team and like talking about the CB's not playing the defense that was called. The Texans have taken on Garys personality. Garys kids are undisciplened. But they're great kids that try their hardest. Meanwhile after 5.2 yrs of the same crap over and over again. People on this MB are still in Garys corner hoping that this yr is going to be different. (Not gonna happen)

Even though Gary will probably make the playoffs this yr due to being in a ridiciously weak division. BoBBY will give Gary another extention and the fans will still be stuck for yrs with a team that only plays 2qtrs of football for yrs to come. (Worse cas scenario)

The big question is can Gary lead this team to a Lombardi trophy? 5.2 yrs would suggest this isn't going to happen. There's no telling how many more losing/underachieving seasons will have to happen before Gary supporters will see the light. Some probably never will.


Exciting close losses may be good enough for some. But it's all about W/L's for me. Who really believes Gary can lead this team to a SB and is being honest with themselves. All of the wishful thinking/hoping for chage is great. But history is what it is and you cant get around these facts. It's all about W/L's not about stats/recognition etc....

Damn steelb, i almost didn't recognize this post as yours....its too fair & balanced lol.

In all seriousness though, there's not alot i can disagree with, although the bolded & the "superbowl or bust" thing is a rather harsh standard for any coach to be judged by..let alone a coach who hasn't even been to the playoffs.

HOU-TEX
09-27-2011, 12:26 PM
Funny, there was an NFL analyst from Yahoo Sports on 1560 this morning who considers the Texans O-line the best in the League with both the pass and run. He also considers this years Red Zone woes to the absence of AF.

I think the Oline's pretty good too. That is, when they have the room to work the stretch plays. There's just too much of a cluster-**** down on the goal line.

I just read LZ's blog and he seems to think Foster might be the answer too. I'm hoping we're all right about that. Although, running from anywhere on the field is going to be difficult this week.

Ckw
09-27-2011, 12:28 PM
To answer one of your questions that it doesn't look like anyone has addressed, Gary DOES NOT let Schaub change the play. When have you ever seen Schaub audible? I sure can't remember a time. If someone knows differently and has some examples, please provide them because by no means am I the authority on the subject.

But as far as I know, the play called by Gary is the play run 100% of the time. I absolutely despise this about Kubes.

Marcus
09-27-2011, 12:30 PM
I think all this Kubiak hate is just so illogical, it's not even funny.

Someone made a comment the other day (forgot who) that there are some here that want to be right about Kubiak more than they want to win.

You know what? I believe that. And that's pretty darn sad.

Vinny
09-27-2011, 12:31 PM
I think the Oline's pretty good too. That is, when they have the room to work the stretch plays. There's just too much of a cluster-**** down on the goal line.

I just read LZ's blog and he seems to think Foster might be the answer too. I'm hoping we're all right about that. Although, running from anywhere on the field is going to be difficult this week.
they are pretty good zone blockers, but when you have short space and no longer have to cover the length of the field there are too many people to stretch. You have to man block...gotta man up and blow someone off their mark. That is not this teams strength and that is why Kubiak gets too cute around the goal line at times. Foster's slashing ability masks a classic zone blocking team weakness.

The1ApplePie
09-27-2011, 12:34 PM
I think Kubes sticks to his offensive system a little too much sometimes. He does not creatively use his players and seems to have a tendency to “square peg in a round hole” some potential weapons.

Jacoby and Slaton are good players in space but are used exactly like Kevin Walter and Ben Tate respectively.

Mike Martz seems to be doing the exact same thing in Chicago.

Texan_Bill
09-27-2011, 12:35 PM
I am not canning Gary Just seems to me every year i the same old same old. We got a team that would run a great Mike Leach offense and we have Gary Kubiak who I still cannot figure out what he is doing. And when you go 3 and Out Bill you put the defense back on the feild and Drew Breeze spreads the feild so it wears on a defense. just seems to me that if we are gonna run the run damit. I am mad at the fact that we let a game slip again. If thi is the norm I predict we will not make the playoffs, we need Hope And Change and All I see is the same Old Same Old

Under the years of HWSNBN, we faced other elite QB's and never collapsed on defense like that. True the offense should've moved the ball more, but also that's when you need to have a defense that can help bail you out and get off the field. This just in, Kareen Jackson is a liabilty on defense. I'm not saying he won't ever be able to play, but it's becoming more and more evident that he would be better suited in a Tampa 2 defense.

Furthermore, while the offense did faulter, they also scored 17 in the second half. Defense gave up 7 in the 3rd and 23 in 4th.

Double Barrel
09-27-2011, 12:37 PM
I think all this Kubiak hate is just so illogical, it's not even funny.

Someone made a comment the other day (forgot who) that there are some here that want to be right about Kubiak more than they want to win.

You know what? I believe that. And that's pretty darn sad.

I get that feeling sometimes, too. I want to be proven wrong about Kubiak. I want to taste the sweet and sour crow dish being served during playoff tailgating. :winky:

they are pretty good zone blockers, but when you have short space and no longer have to cover the length of the field there are too many people to stretch. You have to man block...gotta man up and blow someone off their mark. That is not this teams strength and that is why Kubiak gets too cute around the goal line at times. Foster's slashing ability masks a classic zone blocking team weakness.

How does this effect a defense that works out against the zone blocking scheme? I'm just curious if there is any since they don't get to practice against man blocking.

Honoring Earl 34
09-27-2011, 12:39 PM
they are pretty good zone blockers, but when you have short space and no longer have to cover the length of the field there are too many people to stretch. You have to man block...gotta man up and blow someone off their mark. That is not this teams strength and that is why Kubiak gets too cute around the goal line at times. Foster's slashing ability masks a classic zone blocking team weakness.

They decided to give Tate a blow in the red zone several times . They brought in Slaton ... who could run through a banner led buy a 5'2 cheerleader ... who won't run north . It also kinda tells the defense we're gonna pass .

Put Casey in a wildcat before you put Slaton in the RZ .

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/texans/redzone.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/packers/redzone.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/patriots/redzone.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/ravens/redzone.htm

Vinny
09-27-2011, 12:40 PM
I get that feeling sometimes, too. I want to be proven wrong about Kubiak. I want to taste the sweet and sour crow dish being served during playoff tailgating. :winky:



How does this effect a defense that works out against the zone blocking scheme? I'm just curious if there is any since they don't get to practice against man blocking.
We aren't stout in the middle of the field in any case, with or without seeing a bunch of man blocking in practice. Heck with the watered down practice rules you can only simulate man blocking in shells for the most part. Why the Texans fail to see the logic behind anchoring a dominant big man to be an immovable 2gap eating object in the middle of the field in short yardage and around the goal line is beyond me.

Ckw
09-27-2011, 12:41 PM
I think all this Kubiak hate is just so illogical, it's not even funny.

Someone made a comment the other day (forgot who) that there are some here that want to be right about Kubiak more than they want to win.

You know what? I believe that. And that's pretty darn sad.

I don't buy it. Maybe there are a few people like that, but I doubt there are many. I guarantee you most people are just sick of losing and don't care who the head coach is as long as we start winning some football games.

And you think it is illogical to ***** a little bit about, and maybe even hate on, a coach with a 1 and 18 record on the road against teams with eventual winning records? Really?!?

Ckw
09-27-2011, 12:42 PM
Maybe I'm crazy but I don't know why we don't try running the ball with Casey a little bit in the red zone while Foster is out. His run he had on Sunday was pretty dang impressive and he looks like he could blow through some tacklers.

hradhak
09-27-2011, 12:44 PM
They decided to give Tate a blow in the red zone several times . They brought in Slaton ... who could run through a banner led buy a 5'2 cheerleader ... who won't run north . It also kinda tells the defense we're gonna pass .

Put Casey in a wildcat before you put Slaton in the RZ .

Yeah I'm not sure about the not putting your best RB in during the red zone plays. Slaton is fine if you're doing the pitch...at the 40 yard line.

Kubes had some strange decisions in the RZ, but Schaub also didn't go through his progressions either. He got the ball out far too quickly when he wasn't under pressure.

And why is it that you playaction between the 20s, but not in the RZ? Seems to me that you could easily get them to bite and throw to Tate in the flat.

Texan_Bill
09-27-2011, 12:46 PM
They decided to give Tate a blow in the red zone several times . They brought in Slaton ... who could run through a banner led buy a 5'2 cheerleader ... who won't run north . It also kinda tells the defense we're gonna pass .

Put Casey in a wildcat before you put Slaton in the RZ .

What? 4 rushes for 8 yards doesn't do it for you?? :kitten: I joke, but there were holes for Slaton.

Thorn
09-27-2011, 12:47 PM
I don't buy it. Maybe there are a few people like that, but I doubt there are many. I guarantee you most people are just sick of losing and don't care who the head coach is as long as we start winning some football games.

And you think it is illogical to ***** a little bit about, and maybe even hate on, a coach with a 1 and 18 record on the road against teams with eventual winning records? Really?!?

Exactly. I want nothing more than to see the Texans win a Super Bowl. Houston doesn't have one, and has never been. I don't care who is the head coach, I just want a winner.

And that does NOT keep me from bitching about a head coach who has proven himself to be a loser. Maybe Kubiak changes this year, maybe this year is when he proves all us doubters wrong. Fine, I'd love it it that happens. And I want it to happen, but don't tell me I'd rather hate on Kubiak than see the team win, 'cause that's just plain wrong.

Vinny
09-27-2011, 12:48 PM
And why is it that you playaction between the 20s, but not in the RZ? Seems to me that you could easily get them to bite and throw to Tate in the flat.play action is very hard to do in the rz because it unfolds slowly and everyone on defense is so close to the LOS. No S 20 yards downfield and the linebackers don't need to "drop" into coverage.

Double Barrel
09-27-2011, 12:49 PM
Well, in defense of what Marcus said, he did mention "some". So if you're not part of that "some", then no worries. :tiphat:

CloakNNNdagger
09-27-2011, 12:49 PM
We aren't stout in the middle of the field in any case, with or without seeing a bunch of man blocking in practice. Heck with the watered down practice rules you can only simulate man blocking in shells for the most part. Why the Texans fail to see the logic behind anchoring a dominant big man to be an immovable 2gap eating object in the middle of the field in short yardage and around the goal line is beyond me.

When it becomes more important to BE RIGHT about your untraditional D approach and to prove that you were right in your initial premise, rather than admit to a failing experiment...............this is what you get.........the famous Emperor's Clothes Defense.

Doppelganger
09-27-2011, 12:57 PM
since we took Kubes from Denver we have had trouble punching in the endzone of our opponents. Is it because Gary calls all the plays and calls the formations or does Schaub have the authority to change the play at the line of scrimage. Are the Texans hands tied to the coach in the red zone. I understand that the blocking schemes have to be precise to work and when they do I could be the running back. Bt just like this last game seems we threw out the run for the pass.

I am just asking cause we have several years of this same problem and it is not anything to do with the Defense, except that they got very tired after several 3 and outs at the end of the game.

Does anybody hold Gary accountable or is it always the offence or defense and the coach is excused.

I think it is coaches, GM, and players. Last year we had no problem doing it becuase Foster is that kind of guy. Tate is a solid back, but he doesn't have that same burst that Foster has. That is fine between the 20's, but in this ZBS, you need a guy with that burst to punch it in.

The problem with Kubiak and Smith is they still think its 1998 and the Denver ZBS can use any runner. It can't. The 1998 ZBS which allowed O line to use now illegal chop blocks. With chop blocks, any one cut runner can get about 3-4 yards a carry. The good ones get about 5-6+. Kubes and Smith hit on gold with Foster out of sheer luck and need to invest in another similar type back to run the system. The right size and speed is important.

So, I blame Kubes/Smith for not getting the right personal and then the players for not getting it done on the field.

Honoring Earl 34
09-27-2011, 01:07 PM
I think it is coaches, GM, and players. Last year we had no problem doing it becuase Foster is that kind of guy. Tate is a solid back, but he doesn't have that same burst that Foster has. That is fine between the 20's, but in this ZBS, you need a guy with that burst to punch it in.

The problem with Kubiak and Smith is they still think its 1998 and the Denver ZBS can use any runner. It can't. The 1998 ZBS which allowed O line to use now illegal chop blocks. With chop blocks, any one cut runner can get about 3-4 yards a carry. The good ones get about 5-6+. Kubes and Smith hit on gold with Foster out of sheer luck and need to invest in another similar type back to run the system. The right size and speed is important.

So, I blame Kubes/Smith for not getting the right personal and then the players for not getting it done on the field.

Didn't Denver have Gary Zimmerman and Tom Nalen two HOF or close to it ?

Mr teX
09-27-2011, 01:28 PM
Maybe I'm crazy but I don't know why we don't try running the ball with Casey a little bit in the red zone while Foster is out. His run he had on Sunday was pretty dang impressive and he looks like he could blow through some tacklers.


What makes Foster so great on the goalline is that he has just enough speed to get to the edge but is also shifty & quick enough to hit a cutback lane if one opens up.

Imo, this is where casey comes up short in your scenario. He's not fast enough down there for to be able to press the Lb's into believing he can reach the corner of the zone & if a cutback lane opens up i don't think he could hit it fast enough. I also don't believe he's strong enough to be able to blow through anyone between the tackles inside as most teams' goalline defense usually consists of the fattest of the fat on the line.

The sad thing about all this is that Slaton imo has all the attributes to be able to do what Foster does.............everything except for the vision that is.

Tate, it remains to be seen but i don't think he's got the vision either.

Doppelganger
09-27-2011, 01:30 PM
Didn't Denver have Gary Zimmerman and Tom Nalen two HOF or close to it ?

Sure, but part of what made them great was the ZBS cut blocks. Zimmerman was a fine OL in Minnesota, but was a probowler in Denver.Nalen was a 7th rounder who was drafted by the Broncos.

Who knopws how they would have been if not in the ZBS chop block system.

Surreal McCoy
09-27-2011, 01:44 PM
If you wanted to speak with Steelbtexan or Dexman C you should just PM those guys.

lol excellent :pursefight:

gary
09-27-2011, 01:57 PM
This team knows what must be done to win. Just do it or I want heads to roll.

hradhak
09-27-2011, 02:00 PM
play action is very hard to do in the rz because it unfolds slowly and everyone on defense is so close to the LOS. No S 20 yards downfield and the linebackers don't need to "drop" into coverage.

True. But many teams to great effect can play action and slip a TE or receiver out into the flat for an easy pitch and catch 6. We're also a very good play action team with a threat at RB, but we don't seem to ever call a play action in the RZ.

Mr teX
09-27-2011, 02:36 PM
True. But many teams to great effect can play action and slip a TE or receiver out into the flat for an easy pitch and catch 6. We're also a very good play action team with a threat at RB, but we don't seem to ever call a play action in the RZ.

I've seen us do it a couple of times where we've done play action with Foster or whomever was back there & slipped leach out in the flats for a TD or OD in the middle. The problem with it though is that it's usually a 1-2 read play max. If leach is covered in the flats, then who do you go to? TE in the back of the zone or you could have someone drag all the way across the formation..which takes time. By then any little benefit you had with PA is usually gone b/c you've run out of real estate & the LB's have pretty much recovered.

Those kinds of plays have to be set up in advance though. For instance, noone will bite on the PA if you haven't shown in propensity to run the ball effectively before hand. This is how the giants beat us last year.

Ckw
09-27-2011, 02:43 PM
What makes Foster so great on the goalline is that he has just enough speed to get to the edge but is also shifty & quick enough to hit a cutback lane if one opens up.

Imo, this is where casey comes up short in your scenario. He's not fast enough down there for to be able to press the Lb's into believing he can reach the corner of the zone & if a cutback lane opens up i don't think he could hit it fast enough. I also don't believe he's strong enough to be able to blow through anyone between the tackles inside as most teams' goalline defense usually consists of the fattest of the fat on the line.

The sad thing about all this is that Slaton imo has all the attributes to be able to do what Foster does.............everything except for the vision that is.

Tate, it remains to be seen but i don't think he's got the vision either.

Foster is incredible. I'm still not sold that Casey couldn't have punched it in for 3 yards out in the Saints game. But it is just speculation.

It is very sad about Slaton. I just don't understand what happened to him. He seemed to have very good vision his rookie year. He always seemed to find the smallest hole and just burst through it. Now, he didn't ever have the kind of vision Foster has (and I think Foster has the best vision of any back in the league), but it was certainly above average. Now, Slaton just runs into the back of guys like he is running with his eyes closed.

I agree with you on Tate. He looks to be a very good RB, capable of even being a top 10 RB down the road. But because of his lack of true vision and seeming inability to catch the ball effectively out of the backfield, he will never be an elite RB.

Hurry up, Arian!

Marcus
09-27-2011, 02:47 PM
And you think it is illogical to ***** a little bit about, and maybe even hate on, a coach with a 1 and 18 record on the road against teams with eventual winning records? Really?!?

Sure do.

It should be like it is for players. I don't give a rat's ass what you've done for me in the past. All I care about, is what you've done for me lately. (aka Steve Slaton)

What this team did under Kubiak in previous years is no concern to me anymore, because in previous years, there were different circumstances, involving key injuries to players, different coaches, schemes, etc.

This is a new season, and stop dwelling on the past.

Ckw
09-27-2011, 03:22 PM
Sure do.

It should be like it is for players. I don't give a rat's ass what you've done for me in the past. All I care about, is what you've done for me lately. (aka Steve Slaton)

What this team did under Kubiak in previous years is no concern to me anymore, because in previous years, there were different circumstances, involving key injuries to players, different coaches, schemes, etc.

This is a new season, and stop dwelling on the past.

And what has Kubiak done differently this year than he has in years past? Other than the defense not being in last place (19th in ypg, 22nd in passing ypg, and 22nd in ppg) but we still aren't a top tier team that looks like a potential championship team. He's had long enough to get us there (as long as Sean Payton), so yeah his past does play into his present because his present doesn't look THAT much different than his past.

But keep on keeping on with your apparent low expectations.

gary
09-27-2011, 03:27 PM
I'll give Tate some more time before saying what he will or won't ever be.

Porky
09-27-2011, 03:44 PM
The whole premise of Joe's question is offbase. The Texans have not had constant red zone issues under Kubiak. And I am not a Kubes lover, just a lover of the truth.

Last year they were one of the very best teams out there in the red zone. Vinny had the right answer. Without Foster, we are going to struggle in the RZ. Period. He has special ability to cut back against the grain and can take a wee little hole and exploit it.

Once Foster returns, and is 100% this problem will go poof with it.

Marcus
09-27-2011, 03:44 PM
And what has Kubiak done differently this year than he has in years past? Other than the defense not being in last place (19th in ypg, 22nd in passing ypg, and 22nd in ppg) but we still aren't a top tier team that looks like a potential championship team. He's had long enough to get us there (as long as Sean Payton), so yeah his past does play into his present because his present doesn't look THAT much different than his past.

But keep on keeping on with your apparent low expectations.

So, how do you know all this? Have you got a crystal ball that's telling you how this season is going to end up?

But keep on keeping on with your assumptions on how things are going to turn out.

Texan_Bill
09-27-2011, 04:18 PM
And what has Kubiak done differently this year than he has in years past? Other than the defense not being in last place (19th in ypg, 22nd in passing ypg, and 22nd in ppg) but we still aren't a top tier team that looks like a potential championship team. He's had long enough to get us there (as long as Sean Payton), so yeah his past does play into his present because his present doesn't look THAT much different than his past.

But keep on keeping on with your apparent low expectations.

I get quite a different opinion of Marcus' position. I seem to take it that he has a high expectation this season.

In any event, neither one of you are right and neither one of you are wrong....

THAT'S WHY THEY PLAY THE GAMES on the field and not some video game.

Brando
09-27-2011, 05:24 PM
since we took Kubes from Denver we have had trouble punching in the endzone of our opponents.

Before Kubes, we really had a hard time getting into the endzone.:htown2atx:

Runner
09-27-2011, 05:36 PM
When I look at the sideline, I see the head coach as the Texans weakest position. Nothing I've seen this year has changed that.

Lots of good players though. They finally got that to a decent level.

silvrhand
09-27-2011, 05:54 PM
When I look at the sideline, I see the head coach as the Texans weakest position. Nothing I've seen this year has changed that.

Lots of good players though. They finally got that to a decent level.

Give us Cowher and he'll give us a superbowl..

thunderkyss
09-27-2011, 06:07 PM
Careful, somebody gonna give you some pink soap if you keep this up.

What's wrong with pink soap?

steelbtexan
09-27-2011, 07:38 PM
I get quite a different opinion of Marcus' position. I seem to take it that he has a high expectation this season.

In any event, neither one of you are right and neither one of you are wrong....

THAT'S WHY THEY PLAY THE GAMES on the field and not some video game.

Isn't this what's said every yr?

BTW, the Texans should go 9-7, 10-6 inspite of Gary.

9-7 will probably get Gary another long contract extention. Afterall BoBBy has built in excuses (Lockout, still learning a new defense, Foster still being hurt etc...) seeing the same old thing yr after yr means you have to accept the facts that 1. This is BoBBy's team and 2. While he want to win, winning isn't the most important thing 3. What the fans want doesn't mean 2 ******* to BoBBy.

We as Texans fans just have to hope he turns the team over to Cal sometime soon and that Cal will have a different vision than BoBBY.

Texan_Bill
09-27-2011, 08:07 PM
Isn't this what's said every yr?

BTW, the Texans should go 9-7, 10-6 inspite of Gary.

9-7 will probably get Gary another long contract extention. Afterall BoBBy has built in excuses (Lockout, still learning a new defense, Foster still being hurt etc...) seeing the same old thing yr after yr means you have to accept the facts that 1. This is BoBBy's team and 2. While he want to win, winning isn't the most important thing 3. What the fans want doesn't mean 2 ******* to BoBBy.

We as Texans fans just have to hope he turns the team over to Cal sometime soon and that Cal will have a different vision than BoBBY.

I just get tired of poo-flinging where people express their opinions as fact. Opinopns of the future can't be a fact, because what happens next week or the week after can not be fact (whether in football or people's personal lives).

DexmanC
09-27-2011, 08:41 PM
Sure do.

It should be like it is for players. I don't give a rat's ass what you've done for me in the past. All I care about, is what you've done for me lately. (aka Steve Slaton)

What this team did under Kubiak in previous years is no concern to me anymore, because in previous years, there were different circumstances, involving key injuries to players, different coaches, schemes, etc.

This is a new season, and stop dwelling on the past.

His teams lose consistently to the same level of opponents.
Every year. They put up every stat but wins. What do I care what their
offense or defense is ranked if they prove consistently they still can't
beat good teams?

Everything you've mentioned on this team has changed,
yet the won/loss column has remained the same for 4.2
years. Many people, in each one of those years, also used
the phrase: "the past doesn't matter.". Will it ever start to matter?

Lead the league in wins, and we'll all be happy.

steelbtexan
09-27-2011, 08:55 PM
I just get tired of poo-flinging where people express their opinions as fact. Opinopns of the future can't be a fact, because what happens next week or the week after can not be fact (whether in football or people's personal lives).

Yeah,

But, what would this MB be without opinions? The MB is almost nothing but opinions. People look at the past and form their opinions. Nothing wrong with that. IMO

You once told me that the Texans weren't building the kind of team that I wanted. You were correct sir. (I want a winning team, that's what's most important to me as a fan. Some apprently dont feel this way and will be willing to make excuses for the trifecta of crap currently running the Texans. BoBBY,Gary,Rick) And although I dont aree with them I respect their opinion. Maybe one day they will see the light.

GP
09-27-2011, 09:25 PM
If you wanted to speak with Steelbtexan or Dexman C you should just PM those guys.

LMAO. And that folks, is a great big [/THREAD].

I will try to mesh what I "think" along with what I "know." What I "think" is in red (a warning color). What I know is in black.

Kubiak has admitted that he and his crew go over the game plan throughout the week. Everyone has "buy in" throughout the week. Come game day, the original playcall comes from Dennison and Kubiak can let the call stand or he can take control and alter the call.

Since Dennison has come here (replacing Kyle Shanahan as o-coord) I have noticed that the pass plays tend to have Schaub taking deeper drop-backs, and the plays themselves tend to be more vertical than they were with Kyle at o-coord. Dennison pass plays seem to take forever to "develop" after the snap, but they eat up HUGE yardage if it works (and it usually does). The emergence of Arian Foster, IMO, is what makes the Dennison style flow like it usually does...a GREAT running back is the ying to the passing game's yang, so to speak. Both of those elements together = harmony.

---------------------------

AS TO THE TOPIC, here's my opinion on how it all ties together....

I feel like Kubiak is letting Dennison call plays, and letting the call go into Schaub as it was called by Dennison, the vast majority of the time.

If it's in the red zone, or if it's in crunch time, you'll see Kubiak fumbling with the sheet more and more, sweating, talking to himself, talking into the headset--You ever see him do that between the 20's? I don't. He looks chill as hell when we're moving the ball between the 20's. Arms folded, not much talking, just admiring the work that's being done.

All in all, I think Kubiak is taking the wheel in crunch time situations...it's what he wants, it's what he's always done, ain't no way he'd let Dennison have those honors, IMO.

Kubiak admits the Chris Brown halfback pass was HIS call vs. Jags. That was the first domino to fall, and it's how we came to learn (via Kubiak comments last year) that he will sometimes take control and change the play Dennison called originally. He needs to let his o-coord call the game, IMO. All of it. Kubiak's worst enemy is himself, and he just can't stop having his fingerprints on everything...unfortunately, his prints are on many crime scenes and few masterpieces of art. Dude needs to let his o-coord call the game, instead of changing the whole flow of the offense once we hit the 20.

Texan_Bill
09-27-2011, 09:59 PM
Yeah,

But, what would this MB be without opinions? The MB is almost nothing but opinions. People look at the past and form their opinions. Nothing wrong with that. IMO

You once told me that the Texans weren't building the kind of team that I wanted. You were correct sir. (I want a winning team, that's what's most important to me as a fan. Some apprently dont feel this way and will be willing to make excuses for the trifecta of crap currently running the Texans. BoBBY,Gary,Rick) And although I dont aree with them I respect their opinion. Maybe one day they will see the light.

Opinions are GREAT!!! I employ and enjoy everyone's opinion.. That said, there is a certain "ugly element" that tries to convince the world that they're opinion is in fact truth and usually uses ugly words to express their opinion as FACT against others!!! Not being a hypocrite, as I have been guilty of this in the past, whether here or in other forums (i.e. NSZ)....

Personally, I think people losing their collective minds after a loss to a) an extreme elite offense, b) a QB, well on his way to the HOF and lastly c) My actual Super Bowl favorite, while we were on the road in a stadium that was emotional because d) it was whatever year anniversary of the Superdome's opening after Katrina and finally e) Gleason being an honorary captain after his anouncement of ALS aka Lou Gehrigs' disease...


BUT please people continue to fire poisen darts towards one another based on that one loss. :choke: :slapfight:


Texan_Bill says :texanbill:

Lucky
09-27-2011, 11:20 PM
Someone made a comment the other day (forgot who) that there are some here that want to be right about Kubiak more than they want to win.

You know what? I believe that. And that's pretty darn sad.
I would say that there is a cadre of fans who believe that a Kubiak-coached team will never become winners. I think those fans would change there mind...if the Texans become winners.

I think there is also an element of Kubiak fans who will apologize for Gary ad nauseam. Regardless of the teams lack of success. That's also illogical. The thread starter wasn't asking for Gary's head on a platter. Just asking if Kubiak is getting his share of the blame for red zone woes. In comes Klub Kubiak, to squash any criticism of their hero.

Sad.

Texan_Bill
09-27-2011, 11:55 PM
I would say that there is a cadre of fans who believe that a Kubiak-coached team will never become winners. I think those fans would change there mind...if the Texans become winners.

I think there is also an element of Kubiak fans who will apologize for Gary ad nauseam. Regardless of the teams lack of success. That's also illogical. The thread starter wasn't asking for Gary's head on a platter. Just asking if Kubiak is getting his share of the blame for red zone woes. In comes Klub Kubiak, to squash any criticism of their hero.

Sad.

Typical Lucky.... Push your anti-Kubiak agenda which is pretty pathetic for a "supposed moderater".............

OKAY Kevin, while I'm extremetely honored to be the first (whatever), please renig my membership because of the mods, that you have........... well, not mods. Only a couple..... Okay one................ They push they're own agendas.

I often disagree but I also love guys like CAK, DB, GWAIA and guys that I've actually broken bread with, discussed with, disagreed with, etc. but never been so ugly as the "ivy league" wannabe crowd has been...

Texan_Bill
09-27-2011, 11:56 PM
PS..... Go K*ss Yourself!!!

Joe Texan
09-27-2011, 11:57 PM
I personally think this thread has followed close to the subject and has a lot of opinions just as I had intended, I did not throw Kubes under the bus as some would like to, but he is showing he has a problem in the redzone. If that said problem is Foster then why do we even go out and get Tate when we should have gotten a OL 300 pounder. It is what it is and since it is all Foster god can only hurry up and let him heal

thunderkyss
09-28-2011, 09:28 AM
I personally think this thread has followed close to the subject and has a lot of opinions just as I had intended, I did not throw Kubes under the bus as some would like to, but he is showing he has a problem in the redzone. If that said problem is Foster then why do we even go out and get Tate when we should have gotten a OL 300 pounder. It is what it is and since it is all Foster god can only hurry up and let him heal

Personally, I don't think it's all Foster. I also think Tate may actually be a better short yardage back, so if it's a matter of getting a few yards in the red zone.... he should be fine. The problem Sunday, was he was not given the opportunity. So we don't know.

Denver, when they were Denver, never had this kind of problem (not that I know of anyway) & Chris Myers had a good enough game against the Saints middle, that I don't believe that was the issue either.... In this case, I think it was a coaching issue.

I think we lost the game because our coach got into a shoot out we were obviously not good enough to win... that day.

We should have played it the same way we played Miami the week before, I know the fans don't like reverting to the run game as early as we did against Miami, but with a 9 point lead (I think) with 9 minutes to go, we should have ran the ball. If we get two possessions of 4+ minutes each, that restricts NO to one possession when they needed two to win.

So yes, it's a coaching problem. Yes it's a bit inconsistent (he did it against Miami, I thought he was setting us up for the Saints game) Yes, it's the same kind of mistakes he's been making for the past 5 years.

GP
09-28-2011, 10:25 AM
Typical Lucky.... Push your anti-Kubiak agenda which is pretty pathetic for a "supposed moderater".............

OKAY Kevin, while I'm extremetely honored to be the first (whatever), please renig my membership because of the mods, that you have........... well, not mods. Only a couple..... Okay one................ They push they're own agendas.

I often disagree but I also love guys like CAK, DB, GWAIA and guys that I've actually broken bread with, discussed with, disagreed with, etc. but never been so ugly as the "ivy league" wannabe crowd has been...

PS..... Go **** Yourself!!!

:wow:

hradhak
09-28-2011, 10:34 AM
Personally, I don't think it's all Foster. I also think Tate may actually be a better short yardage back, so if it's a matter of getting a few yards in the red zone.... he should be fine. The problem Sunday, was he was not given the opportunity. So we don't know.

Denver, when they were Denver, never had this kind of problem (not that I know of anyway) & Chris Myers had a good enough game against the Saints middle, that I don't believe that was the issue either.... In this case, I think it was a coaching issue.

I think we lost the game because our coach got into a shoot out we were obviously not good enough to win... that day.

We should have played it the same way we played Miami the week before, I know the fans don't like reverting to the run game as early as we did against Miami, but with a 9 point lead (I think) with 9 minutes to go, we should have ran the ball. If we get two possessions of 4+ minutes each, that restricts NO to one possession when they needed two to win.

So yes, it's a coaching problem. Yes it's a bit inconsistent (he did it against Miami, I thought he was setting us up for the Saints game) Yes, it's the same kind of mistakes he's been making for the past 5 years.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Rep coming your way.

I wanna add though that there was an execution problem also by our offense. With 12 minutes left we went 3 and out. It wasn't the Saints defense. Schaub overthrew Andre, Tate missed a reception that would have gotten us an easy first.

The fact of the matter is that we didn't execute what the coach called, and I assume he wanted to get another TD (or FG) and eat some clock before running it. But we didn't run the ball once on that drive or the next and then were forced into passing.

The fault lies with the players as much as the coach. The coach could have called better plays, but the plays the coach called weren't executed well.

Mr teX
09-28-2011, 10:55 AM
I think you hit the nail on the head. Rep coming your way.

I wanna add though that there was an execution problem also by our offense. With 12 minutes left we went 3 and out. It wasn't the Saints defense. Schaub overthrew Andre, Tate missed a reception that would have gotten us an easy first.

The fact of the matter is that we didn't execute what the coach called, and I assume he wanted to get another TD (or FG) and eat some clock before running it. But we didn't run the ball once on that drive or the next and then were forced into passing.

The fault lies with the players as much as the coach. The coach could have called better plays, but the plays the coach called weren't executed well.

At that point in the game though, Williams knew he couldn't sit back anymore like he'd done for pretty much the whole game & he started blitzing alot more so yeah, it was the saints defense to a certain degree. That overthrow by schaub was directly forced by an untouched saints defender blitzing & coming in about to take his head off; Dierdorf mentioned it during the game as a "chuck & duck" by schaub. We saw alot more of that as the 4th quarter progressed & schaub had increasingly gotten more uncomfortable.

IlliniJen
09-28-2011, 11:46 AM
Careful, somebody gonna give you some pink soap if you keep this up.

Wuh...wut? What are you, some pinko commie? That pink soap is UN'MERICUN!

Texan_Bill
09-28-2011, 02:35 PM
:wow:

What? The filter blanked out K*ss :kitten:

Lucky
09-28-2011, 09:54 PM
Typical Lucky.... Push your anti-Kubiak agenda which is pretty pathetic for a "supposed moderater".............

PS..... Go K*ss Yourself!!!
That was Texan Bill's annual whine about me being a moderator. Then he threatens to leave. For about 15 minutes. This is where I remind him that I'm only a member who is entitled to present my opinions on the team. And charged with occasionally cleaning up a mess made by others.

Hey, I'll be at the yellow lot on Sunday. I've got some bread if you feel up to breaking it.

SuperSerial
09-29-2011, 03:09 AM
Kub has no business running the ball 3 times in the 4th qtr and passing it 18 times. When your job is to protect a 9 point lead on the front end of that quarter, chew up the clock, and keep Brees on the bench, you don't do it in the air.

He has always been pass happy. Houston will never amount to anything until he grasps the concept of using his offense wisely to keep certain opposing qbs off the field.

thunderkyss
09-29-2011, 12:56 PM
Kub has no business running the ball 3 times in the 4th qtr and passing it 18 times. When your job is to protect a 9 point lead on the front end of that quarter, chew up the clock, and keep Brees on the bench, you don't do it in the air.

He has always been pass happy. Houston will never amount to anything until he grasps the concept of using his offense wisely to keep certain opposing qbs off the field.

I was originally mad at that myself..... But I don't know what the status of Tate was. We'd have been rolling, if they didn't call that BS PI on Dressen.... he was handfighting with a LB trying to get open, the LB was trying to grab him when he pushed his hands out of the way, that's what they called the PI on, when the LB shouldn't have had his hands anywhere near Dressen at the time.

We needed to score on that possession. If everything went right, we would have taken the lead, leaving a little time on the clock for the Saints to score.

But they sent a DB on a blitz, he went untouched & sacked Matt. Matt didn't see the blitz (blind side) So he couldn't beat it. At 3rd & 15, I don't know if we'd have picked up the first down, but if Kubiak was in 4 down mode already..... it wouldn't have mattered.

If you're going to break it down to one play, that's the one.... that 3rd & 15 that ended our chances of winning.