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View Full Version : Kubiak is 1 and 18 in road games versus teams with eventual winning record


TexansFanatic
09-26-2011, 01:31 PM
Per a Trey Wingo tweet.

Vinny
09-26-2011, 01:40 PM
I guess we can call that a trend!

TexansFanatic
09-26-2011, 01:42 PM
I guess we can call that a trend!

LMAO!

I think I know when to put big money on the line now.

Double Barrel
09-26-2011, 01:43 PM
Dang, and he was so close to being 2-17 in road games versus teams with eventual winning record yesterday! D'oh!

silvrhand
09-26-2011, 01:50 PM
Wow that's a rough stat.. Has anyone seen what Cowher is up to these days :)

ThaShark316
09-26-2011, 02:03 PM
Cincy being the only W...

A lot of that is within the division...

PIT, DAL, MIN are others off top...

Texans have a lot of wins on the road vs. teams thought to be contenders, and come to find out down the road, they weren't very good.

Second Honeymoon
09-26-2011, 03:33 PM
Cincy being the only W...

A lot of that is within the division...

PIT, DAL, MIN are others off top...

Texans have a lot of wins on the road vs. teams thought to be contenders, and come to find out down the road, they weren't very good.

really? i dont remember many wins v. quality teams either home or away.

but we can beat Miami, KC, and Oakland when they stink....still can't beat our divisional foes even when they stink more than half the time.

This season is going to be enjoyable for me, one way or another. I am not going to let our crap head coach ruin another NFL season. I want to hope for the best and if they don't win the division, I can not see any scenario where Kubiak is brought back. If he can't win the division, this year, he will never win it...much less win a playoff game.

As long as I know Kubiak is going to get fired if they don't make the playoffs, I will be happy either way. Either happy with a playoff appearance (probably a home wild card game as bad divisional winner) or no playoffs and Kubiak finally getting run out of this town.

Hopefully Kubiak proves me wrong but I have 5.2 seasons worth of data to show that he is a suckass Head Coach. Good coordinator though....but that isn't his job.

MojoMan
09-26-2011, 03:35 PM
He will next have a chance to improve that record when the Texans visit Baltimore in three weeks.

fiasco west
09-26-2011, 03:45 PM
Problem with Kubiak is he is way too conservative at times.

Up 7, on maybe on the Saints 3 yard line and it's 4th and 2...you're on the road...why are we kicking a FG? You do realize we are playing the New Orleans Saints right? It's 4th and 2 and you should have confidence that those guys can get in imo.

HJam72
09-26-2011, 03:48 PM
Problem with Kubiak is he is way too conservative at times.

Up 7, on maybe on the Saints 3 yard line and it's 4th and 2...you're on the road...why are we kicking a FG? You do realize we are playing the New Orleans Saints right? It's 4th and 2 and you should have confidence that those guys can get in imo.

I thought about this a lot too, but the truth is....I didn't...

HJam72
09-26-2011, 03:50 PM
Here's another one:

Kubiak is totally winless in games that he has lost... :kubepalm:

So is Phillips. :wadepalm:

Double Barrel
09-26-2011, 04:14 PM
really? i dont remember many wins v. quality teams either home or away.

but we can beat Miami, KC, and Oakland when they stink....still can't beat our divisional foes even when they stink more than half the time.

This season is going to be enjoyable for me, one way or another. I am not going to let our crap head coach ruin another NFL season. I want to hope for the best and if they don't win the division, I can not see any scenario where Kubiak is brought back. If he can't win the division, this year, he will never win it...much less win a playoff game.

As long as I know Kubiak is going to get fired if they don't make the playoffs, I will be happy either way. Either happy with a playoff appearance (probably a home wild card game as bad divisional winner) or no playoffs and Kubiak finally getting run out of this town.

Hopefully Kubiak proves me wrong but I have 5.2 seasons worth of data to show that he is a suckass Head Coach. Good coordinator though....but that isn't his job.

Man, SH, I wish I could be as 'optimistic' as you win or lose.

I feel good about the Texans chances to win a division this season. Nothing is a "no brainer" in the NFL, but as stars aligned goes, this has to be the season, all things considered. That's why I'm choosing to look at the positives instead of dwelling on the negatives.

On the flip side, though...I'm just not convinced that this is Kubiak's last season if the Texans fail to make the playoffs. He'll have a year left on his contract, and due to the lock-out and a new defensive scheme, I could see a scenario where McNair gives him one so-called 'last chance'. Barring a 2-14 debacle, I think Kubiak is here in 2012 regardless of how this season ends.

McNair loves him some Kubiak, so we might as well expect long haul.

But, doesn't matter because the Texans make the playoffs this year and Kubiak gets a lifetime extension. :fingergun:

TexansFanatic
09-26-2011, 04:18 PM
He will next have a chance to improve that record when the Texans visit Baltimore in three weeks.

That's the game I'm eyeballing. Thinking of betting the house on the Ravens.

Rey
09-26-2011, 04:32 PM
Kubiak has not been a good head coach in the past and the Texans have never been any good.

I am not shocked about the poor W/L record against good teams on the road...

Honoring Earl 34
09-26-2011, 04:41 PM
Man, SH, I wish I could be as 'optimistic' as you win or lose.

I feel good about the Texans chances to win a division this season. Nothing is a "no brainer" in the NFL, but as stars aligned goes, this has to be the season, all things considered. That's why I'm choosing to look at the positives instead of dwelling on the negatives.

On the flip side, though...I'm just not convinced that this is Kubiak's last season if the Texans fail to make the playoffs. He'll have a year left on his contract, and due to the lock-out and a new defensive scheme, I could see a scenario where McNair gives him one so-called 'last chance'. Barring a 2-14 debacle, I think Kubiak is here in 2012 regardless of how this season ends.

McNair loves him some Kubiak, so we might as well expect long haul.

But, doesn't matter because the Texans make the playoffs this year and Kubiak gets a lifetime extension. :fingergun:

Rumor is McNair is getting Kubiak's initials on his calf like Simms and Lil Shanny did . :choke:

I do think that we have the some of the same tendencies as last year so while I'm hoping for the best , the worst won't surprise me either . The Texans getting into the playoffs in this division isn't enough either to mark progress . They need to go 3/4 between Baltimore , Pittsburg , Atlanta , and Tampa . I don't care as much about the division because it stinks .

TimeKiller
09-26-2011, 06:38 PM
2-1 this year.

Pantherstang84
09-26-2011, 06:57 PM
really? i dont remember many wins v. quality teams either home or away.

but we can beat Miami, KC, and Oakland when they stink....still can't beat our divisional foes even when they stink more than half the time.

This season is going to be enjoyable for me, one way or another. I am not going to let our crap head coach ruin another NFL season. I want to hope for the best and if they don't win the division, I can not see any scenario where Kubiak is brought back. If he can't win the division, this year, he will never win it...much less win a playoff game.

As long as I know Kubiak is going to get fired if they don't make the playoffs, I will be happy either way. Either happy with a playoff appearance (probably a home wild card game as bad divisional winner) or no playoffs and Kubiak finally getting run out of this town.

Hopefully Kubiak proves me wrong but I have 5.2 seasons worth of data to show that he is a suckass Head Coach. Good coordinator though....but that isn't his job.

That would be traumatic.

Pantherstang84
09-26-2011, 06:58 PM
2-1 this year.

2-0 against teams whose combined record is 0-6. Hmmm.

TexansFanatic
09-26-2011, 07:04 PM
2-0 against teams whose combined record is 0-6. Hmmm.

Wow, hadn't even looked at that.

Perhaps this is the year Kubiak is lucky enough to have ten games on the schedule against losing teams.

DexmanC
09-26-2011, 07:11 PM
Per a Trey Wingo tweet.

Reps to you for backing up "negativity" (the truth) with cold hard facts. It ain't our
fault the truth is what it is. 1-18 in ANYTHING in your SIXTH SEASON is unacceptable
by any reasonable standard.

ArlingtonTexan
09-26-2011, 07:16 PM
Wow, hadn't even looked at that.

Perhaps this is the year Kubiak is lucky enough to have ten games on the schedule against losing teams.

In terms of just making the playoffs, not losing to teams that are not as good as is more vital, just can't choke up those games. Winning against good teams on the road gives us a better sense of how good the team is or is not when considering if they can do something once there.

Yesterday we found out that, the Texans have not fixed many of the things that were shortcomings, but the idea that they "should" make the playoffs in this division is not defeated; yet.

TexansFanatic
09-26-2011, 07:24 PM
Reps to you

Thanks for the rep, my friend.

I really want Kubiak to succeed---I like him a lot. But some numbers are impossible to ignore.

My guess is that most coaches, even the really good ones, typically have a losing record in road games against winning teams. The very best are probably just a few games over .500 in those games.

But 1 and 18? http://vmedia.rivals.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

DexmanC
09-26-2011, 07:27 PM
2-0 against teams whose combined record is 0-6. Hmmm.

Rep. I'm LMAO'ing to keep from crying. Too many fans wondering if this year's
team "feels" like a contender. We've been waiting over 5 years for this team to
actually BE a contender.

Lucky
09-26-2011, 07:32 PM
Perhaps this is the year Kubiak is lucky enough to have ten games on the schedule against losing teams.
That's what will happen. Saints, Steelers, Raiders, Ravens, Bucs, & Falcons are the only teams that will possibly end up with winning records. Go 5-3 or 6-2 against the losers the rest of the way, pickup a couple of wins against the teams above, and you've got yourself a 2011 AFC South champion. Which means a home playoff game. I hope its the Saturday Night game.

I could come up with all sorts of stats that show Kubiak has failed. It doesn't matter. Read my sig. This season is Kubiak-proof.

TexansFanatic
09-26-2011, 07:37 PM
Read my sig. This season is Kubiak-proof.

Haha! Excellent.

And then, like in the Glanville era, we're one and done in the playoffs.

Lucky
09-26-2011, 07:39 PM
And then, like in the Glanville era, we're one and done in the playoffs.
I look back to the Glanville era with misty eyes. It's been 10 years. Please give me one playoff game. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

DexmanC
09-26-2011, 07:49 PM
Do you guys remember Mike Tomlin's first game as a head coach?

vupac1
09-26-2011, 08:48 PM
Do you guys remember Mike Tomlin's first game as a head coach?

Was it similar to Mark Sanchez's first game as a rookie NFL QB on the road?

DexmanC
09-26-2011, 08:52 PM
Was it similar to Mark Sanchez's first game as a rookie NFL QB on the road?

lmao. Wasn't Sanchez's head coach also in his first game?
See a trend?

steelbtexan
09-26-2011, 08:58 PM
Haha! Excellent.

And then, like in the Glanville era, we're one and done in the playoffs.

Jerry/Warren- playoffs =Fail

bckey
09-27-2011, 12:31 AM
really? i dont remember many wins v. quality teams either home or away.

but we can beat Miami, KC, and Oakland when they stink....still can't beat our divisional foes even when they stink more than half the time.

This season is going to be enjoyable for me, one way or another. I am not going to let our crap head coach ruin another NFL season. I want to hope for the best and if they don't win the division, I can not see any scenario where Kubiak is brought back. If he can't win the division, this year, he will never win it...much less win a playoff game.

As long as I know Kubiak is going to get fired if they don't make the playoffs, I will be happy either way. Either happy with a playoff appearance (probably a home wild card game as bad divisional winner) or no playoffs and Kubiak finally getting run out of this town.

Hopefully Kubiak proves me wrong but I have 5.2 seasons worth of data to show that he is a suckass Head Coach. Good coordinator though....but that isn't his job.

How about the Texans win the division with an 8-8 or 9-7 record (no better than their 9-7 non playoff year). Due to a cupcake last half of the schedule and all of our division foes with major problems. They host a playoff game because they win the division but lose. Kubiak is retained because he made the playoffs and all the koolaid drinkers rejoice. Nothing actually acomplished but all remains the same. The nightmare continues.....:hankpalm:

Hookem Horns
09-27-2011, 12:47 AM
How about the Texans win the division with an 8-8 or 9-7 record (no better than their 9-7 non playoff year). Due to a cupcake last half of the schedule and all of our division foes with major problems. They host a playoff game because they win the division but lose. Kubiak is retained because he made the playoffs and all the koolaid drinkers rejoice. Nothing actually acomplished but all remains the same. The nightmare continues.....:hankpalm:

That scenario is a MAJOR possibility.

TexansFanatic
09-27-2011, 12:48 AM
That scenario is a MAJOR possibility.

I'd go so far as to say it's a probability.

thunderkyss
09-27-2011, 07:40 AM
lmao. Wasn't Sanchez's head coach also in his first game?
See a trend?

I don't see it, help me out.

GP
09-27-2011, 08:51 AM
Stats are for losers...literally. LOL.

Kimmy
09-27-2011, 08:55 AM
How about the Texans win the division with an 8-8 or 9-7 record (no better than their 9-7 non playoff year). Due to a cupcake last half of the schedule and all of our division foes with major problems. They host a playoff game because they win the division but lose. Kubiak is retained because he made the playoffs and all the koolaid drinkers rejoice. Nothing actually acomplished but all remains the same. The nightmare continues.....:hankpalm:

A playoff appearance, as in a singular game will not make me happy.

I want to win, period.

Was just talking to my husband about this last night. This whole 'playoffs or bust' is bs. Unless we have some kind of epic Texan meltdown, we WILL make the playoffs.

When we do and lose the 1st game, I will be hella pissed and waiting for Kubiaks papers. Although I don't think we will get them

Double Barrel
09-27-2011, 10:36 AM
This franchise takes baby steps. It has done this for 9 years. Remember when it was a big deal that they won back-to-back games? Remember when they finally won three in a row? Last year it was the monumental and historic 4-2 start - THE FIRST IN TEXANS HISTORY!! Of course, the 2-8 record that followed kinda' deflated that party balloon.

I fully expect them to make the playoffs and be one-and-done. It's the in the Texans DNA to never over-reach, to never be something bigger than the parts.

But hey, I'll take a playoff spot this year. It's better than the last nine years of nothin'.

Ckw
09-27-2011, 10:49 AM
That is some flat out damning evidence! 1-18?!?!?!? Hell, I could coach the Texans and probably go 2-17!

Wow! Just wow! This is the stat the sums up the regime better known as FAIL. When your one "quality" road win is against the Bengals, you are a crappy head coach. One of the worst, if not THE worst, in the league.

If I was Bob McNair, I'd fire Kubiak on the spot after hearing this stat. I'd tell him he has two options: take a demotion and become the offensive coordinator or look for a new job. Absolutely pathetic and infuriating!

Even VY thinks this is pathetic. :vincepalm:

Second Honeymoon
09-27-2011, 10:53 AM
That is some flat out damning evidence! 1-18?!?!?!? Hell, I could coach the Texans and probably go 2-17!

Wow! Just wow! This is the stat the sums up the regime better known as FAIL. When your one "quality" road win is against the Bengals, you are a crappy head coach. One of the worst, if not THE worst, in the league.

If I was Bob McNair, I'd fire Kubiak on the spot after hearing this stat. I'd tell him he has two options: take a demotion and become the offensive coordinator or look for a new job. Absolutely pathetic and infuriating!

Even VY thinks this is pathetic. :vincepalm:

yeah but Kubiak never had a defense behind him....oh wait, that is on him.

he hired the losers who have been running/drafting the defense (RIck Smith included)

if they go 8-8, win division, and lose first game, then he must be fired but he wont be. i think he even survives 7-9. if he survived last years meteoric fall, I am just gonna assume he has pictures of McNair at a Klan rally or with a 13yr old mistress.

he has done nothing to earn my belief, but were 2-1 and maybe we can fix some of those lingering problems. the team has come out better to start the games...and motivation and getting team ready for the whistle has been a problem I have had with Kubiak for a long time.

Ckw
09-27-2011, 11:03 AM
yeah but Kubiak never had a defense behind him....oh wait, that is on him.

he hired the losers who have been running/drafting the defense (RIck Smith included)

if they go 8-8, win division, and lose first game, then he must be fired but he wont be. i think he even survives 7-9. if he survived last years meteoric fall, I am just gonna assume he has pictures of McNair at a Klan rally or with a 13yr old mistress.

he has done nothing to earn my belief, but were 2-1 and maybe we can fix some of those lingering problems. the team has come out better to start the games...and motivation and getting team ready for the whistle has been a problem I have had with Kubiak for a long time.

The fans better riot. If Houston fans don't get off their asses to go picket outside of Reliant if Kubiak has another 8-8/9-7 whether we make the playoffs or not, I will forever lose all respect for Houstonians.

We have got to stop settling for mediocrity. Our owners trot out **** on a platter and call it steak. It's time we stop gobbling it up!

Double Barrel
09-27-2011, 11:12 AM
The fans better riot. If Houston fans don't get off their asses to go picket outside of Reliant if Kubiak has another 8-8/9-7 whether we make the playoffs or not, I will forever lose all respect for Houstonians.

We have got to stop settling for mediocrity. Our owners trot out **** on a platter and call it steak. It's time we stop gobbling it up!

Fans have no chance to impact owner decisions unless they stop buying tickets.

And PSL's pretty much guarantee that ticket boycotts will never happen.

It's an investment! :thinking:

We have to face reality Texans fans: this franchise is what it is.

Let's just hope for the best, and of course, you know, "just be happy football is back in Houston". :texflag:

Vinny
09-27-2011, 11:16 AM
The fans better riot. If Houston fans don't get off their asses to go picket outside of Reliant if Kubiak has another 8-8/9-7 whether we make the playoffs or not, I will forever lose all respect for Houstonians.

We have got to stop settling for mediocrity. Our owners trot out **** on a platter and call it steak. It's time we stop gobbling it up!
I didn't know McNair funded this project (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=u1N6QfuIh0g)? Who knew? the low bar satisfaction on Kirby drive was maddening in the past. I knew they didn't take winning a Super Bowl seriously a few years ago when they were hurting their hands patting themselves on the back for going 9-7. Everyone just assumed that they were "there". What they were was mediocre. They have been humbled a bit since then so I think the bar is higher now.

silentassassin
09-27-2011, 11:23 AM
This franchise takes baby steps. It has done this for 9 years. Remember when it was a big deal that they won back-to-back games? Remember when they finally won three in a row? Last year it was the monumental and historic 4-2 start - THE FIRST IN TEXANS HISTORY!! Of course, the 2-8 record that followed kinda' deflated that party balloon.

I fully expect them to make the playoffs and be one-and-done. It's the in the Texans DNA to never over-reach, to never be something bigger than the parts.

But hey, I'll take a playoff spot this year. It's better than the last nine years of nothin'.

this. I think this is the damning reality of this franchise. I find it hard to believe they'll progress any other way. I was too young when the Oilers were in town and began watching the Texans in 02 when I was a kid. I've kind of "grown with the team" and accepted the fact that they won't make some giant leap forward.

TEXANRED
09-27-2011, 11:29 AM
It's not all Kubiaks fault. This is a team sport. It's ashame that we judge one guy for a team loss. :faildetector:

Ckw
09-27-2011, 11:36 AM
Fans have no chance to impact owner decisions unless they stop buying tickets.

And PSL's pretty much guarantee that ticket boycotts will never happen.

It's an investment! :thinking:

We have to face reality Texans fans: this franchise is what it is.

Let's just hope for the best, and of course, you know, "just be happy football is back in Houston". :texflag:

I don't completely buy it DB. I can't think of an instance right off the top of my head, but I know these type of protests have worked in other cities. The owner still wants happy fans because happy fans mean even more money. I don't think it is a matter of stop going to the games or nothing. A good protest can bring bad publicity to the Texans, and you know how much Bobby hates bad PR. All it would take is a large enough effort to get plastered all over the news, have the papers asking if Bobby really cares and listens to the fans, and I'd bet my lunch money that he caves in.

Too many Houstonians though are willing to take your attitude that we have no control and nothing we do will change anything. Enough pissed off people could get it done.

I didn't know McNair funded this project (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=u1N6QfuIh0g)? Who knew?

Hilarious!!!! Man, it's great having you back Vinny!

the low bar satisfaction on Kirby drive was maddening in the past. I knew they didn't take winning a Super Bowl seriously a few years ago when they were hurting their hands patting themselves on the back for going 9-7. Everyone just assumed that they were "there". What they were was mediocre. They have been humbled a bit since then so I think the bar is higher now.

Great post, and a very sad reality. I have never seen an organization so happy and content with mediocrity. I wonder if Bobby Billionaire had to go see Dr. Brown for that injured hand of his.

TexansFanatic
09-27-2011, 11:42 AM
It's not all Kubiaks fault. This is a team sport. It's ashame that we judge one guy for a team loss. :faildetector:

Someone needs to issue a memo to all NFL owners: "It's a team sport! Stop blaming your team's performance on the head coach!"

That should put a halt to the senseless turnover at the HC position.

Double Barrel
09-27-2011, 11:45 AM
I don't completely buy it DB. I can't think of an instance right off the top of my head, but I know these type of protests have worked in other cities. The owner still wants happy fans because happy fans mean even more money. I don't think it is a matter of stop going to the games or nothing. A good protest can bring bad publicity to the Texans, and you know how much Bobby hates bad PR. All it would take is a large enough effort to get plastered all over the news, have the papers asking if Bobby really cares and listens to the fans, and I'd bet my lunch money that he caves in.

Too many Houstonians though are willing to take your attitude that we have no control and nothing we do will change anything. Enough pissed off people could get it done.



Hey, I feel your pain, man. I'm just being pragmatic and telling it like it is based on this city's history.

They sold out Reliant after 2-14. They've sold out Reliant every year that this team has existed. It's almost like the Texans have a fail-proof plan. Marketing genius is what it is.

As for McNair, you just have to understand his mentality. He admires Robert Kraft and the Rooney family. Loyalty and patience are his calling cards, and nothing the fans do (short of not purchasing tickets) will have an impact. And that's just a guess on my part because it's never happened.

TV revenue guarantees that NFL franchises will make money every year. So it's merely a hunch that fans can have an impact on the fundamental nature of our owner. We cannot judge McNair based on other cities. It's just not applicable.

I have no doubt that he wants to win. Obviously as an owner fan, he wants to win. And as a business man, he wants to win.

But he wants to win his way, not on a coaching carousel, but with hometown hero sub-plots and loyalty and patience as his mantras.

It is what it is, man. I've learned over the years to quit fighting it. We have a choice to be fans, and part of being a fan of the Texans is just accepting the nature of our owner.

Texan_Bill
09-27-2011, 11:48 AM
I didn't know McNair funded this project (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=u1N6QfuIh0g)? Who knew? the low bar satisfaction on Kirby drive was maddening in the past. I knew they didn't take winning a Super Bowl seriously a few years ago when they were hurting their hands patting themselves on the back for going 9-7. Everyone just assumed that they were "there". What they were was mediocre. They have been humbled a bit since then so I think the bar is higher now.

Thanks Vinny!! And right before lunch, too??? No burgers today! :cow:

Ckw
09-27-2011, 11:56 AM
Hey, I feel your pain, man. I'm just being pragmatic and telling it like it is based on this city's history.

They sold out Reliant after 2-14. They've sold out Reliant every year that this team has existed. It's almost like the Texans have a fail-proof plan. Marketing genius is what it is.

As for McNair, you just have to understand his mentality. He admires Robert Kraft and the Rooney family. Loyalty and patience are his calling cards, and nothing the fans do (short of not purchasing tickets) will have an impact. And that's just a guess on my part because it's never happened.

TV revenue guarantees that NFL franchises will make money every year. So it's merely a hunch that fans can have an impact on the fundamental nature of our owner. We cannot judge McNair based on other cities. It's just not applicable.

I have no doubt that he wants to win. Obviously as an owner fan, he wants to win. And as a business man, he wants to win.

But he wants to win his way, not on a coaching carousel, but with hometown hero sub-plots and loyalty and patience as his mantras.

It is what it is, man. I've learned over the years to quit fighting it. We have a choice to be fans, and part of being a fan of the Texans is just accepting the nature of our owner.

DB, you know I love you bro, but I strongly believe McNair's hatred of bad press trumps his desire for a hometown hero sub-plot. Remember, marketing company with a football division.

Appearances matter more to Bobby Billionaire than anything else including winning. If the Texans front office starts getting some bad press, McNair will cave. The fans just have to get off their asses and hit Bobby where it hurts: on the front page of the newspaper.

TEXANRED
09-27-2011, 12:01 PM
Someone needs to issue a memo to all NFL owners: "It's a team sport! Stop blaming your team's performance on the head coach!"

That should put a halt to the senseless turnover at the HC position.

Hey I will type one up!

TexansFanatic
09-27-2011, 12:09 PM
Hey I will type one up!

;-)

thunderkyss
09-27-2011, 01:44 PM
I have no doubt that he wants to win. Obviously as an owner fan, he wants to win. And as a business man, he wants to win.

But he wants to win his way, not on a coaching carousel, but with hometown hero sub-plots and loyalty and patience as his mantras.

It is what it is, man. I've learned over the years to quit fighting it. We have a choice to be fans, and part of being a fan of the Texans is just accepting the nature of our owner.

So.. where did Capers come from? Pasadena? Port Neches? Katy? If Capers would have won football games, I'm sure he'd still be here now.

Maybe when it came time to fire Kubiak, he looked around & the teams that were on the bottom are still on the bottom. The Lions, the 49ers, the Bills... & he realized changing head coaches doesn't guarantee you anything. Yeah, it works for other franchises, the Saints, the Jets... but there are just as many failures.

Look, I don't have a clue why Kubiak is still here. But I'm pretty sure it has nothing (or at least little) to do with him being a hometown boy.

TEXANRED
09-27-2011, 01:48 PM
;-)

It's not never one guys fault!

Signed,

Dan Orlovsky

Double Barrel
09-27-2011, 02:17 PM
DB, you know I love you bro, but I strongly believe McNair's hatred of bad press trumps his desire for a hometown hero sub-plot. Remember, marketing company with a football division.

Appearances matter more to Bobby Billionaire than anything else including winning. If the Texans front office starts getting some bad press, McNair will cave. The fans just have to get off their asses and hit Bobby where it hurts: on the front page of the newspaper.

How much bad press does he need? The Texans have 9 seasons and counting of bad press. It did not shake him when half our fanbase was butthurt about not signing VY. It did not shake him when his 9-7 team went 6-10 (after a 4-2 start).

Bad press might trump hometown hero sub-plot, but I can tell you straight up that 10 decades of sold out stadium trumps any bad press.

Money talks, and it's singing a lullaby to Bobby McNair every night.

The opinions of fans don't mean squat to McNair when they are paying customers. That's just the way it is, and PSL's as investments are going to keep it that way. What a magnificent scam the owners have hoisted upon their fans. "Build our stadiums and let us sucker you into a lifetime obligation!" Genius, man, pure genius.

So.. where did Capers come from? Pasadena? Port Neches? Katy? If Capers would have won football games, I'm sure he'd still be here now.

Maybe when it came time to fire Kubiak, he looked around & the teams that were on the bottom are still on the bottom. The Lions, the 49ers, the Bills... & he realized changing head coaches doesn't guarantee you anything. Yeah, it works for other franchises, the Saints, the Jets... but there are just as many failures.

Look, I don't have a clue why Kubiak is still here. But I'm pretty sure it has nothing (or at least little) to do with him being a hometown boy.

Hey, 2-14 will get anyone fired.

He likes Kubiak. He likes that he's got hometown roots. He's stated that on more than one occasion. If that factors in his decision and by how much, who knows? But there is no denying that it feeds his loyalty to the coach. So yeah, perhaps matter of degrees, but if it's about marketing, that hometown hero sub-plot (now fortified with vitamin Wade!) is a good angle to sell.

Same thing with David Carr being a God-fearing family man. ALL evidence pointed to him being a bust, but McNair would have none of it. Kubiak's ego thought he could do something, and it was only when his head coach gave Carr the thumbs down did he finally give in to letting him go.

Y'all seem to expect savy football decisions from our owner. At what point in the past decade has he displayed a tendency to make front office decisions from an insightful analytical perspective?

I swear it's like the last 8 year of this forum never happened sometime. Déjà vu X ∞.

Ckw
09-27-2011, 02:31 PM
How much bad press does he need? The Texans have 9 seasons and counting of bad press. It did not shake him when half our fanbase was butthurt about not signing VY. It did not shake him when his 9-7 team went 6-10 (after a 4-2 start).

Bad press might trump hometown hero sub-plot, but I can tell you straight up that 10 decades of sold out stadium trumps any bad press.

Money talks, and it's singing a lullaby to Bobby McNair every night.

The opinions of fans don't mean squat to McNair when they are paying customers. That's just the way it is, and PSL's as investments are going to keep it that way. What a magnificent scam the owners have hoisted upon their fans. "Build our stadiums and let us sucker you into a lifetime obligation!" Genius, man, pure genius.

Agree to disagree and all that jazz I guess. Regardless, I'm with you that McNair pretty much sucks as an owner. Thanks for bringing football back to Houston, Bobby, but other than that, you have been a pretty unremarkable owner.

I hope you are wrong. Neither of us has the evidence to prove the other wrong because Houstonians have never staged any kind of mass protest at Reliant. So we really don't know what Bobby would do if his back was against the wall, the people were chanting anti-Kubiak rhetoric, and he was forced to either fire the guy or be hated by all of Houston and have the press bash his franchise like never before. IF it happens, Houstonians are fools to not even try to get Bobby's attention.

Honoring Earl 34
09-27-2011, 02:37 PM
How much bad press does he need? The Texans have 9 seasons and counting of bad press. It did not shake him when half our fanbase was butthurt about not signing VY. It did not shake him when his 9-7 team went 6-10 (after a 4-2 start).

Bad press might trump hometown hero sub-plot, but I can tell you straight up that 10 decades of sold out stadium trumps any bad press.

Money talks, and it's singing a lullaby to Bobby McNair every night.

The opinions of fans don't mean squat to McNair when they are paying customers. That's just the way it is, and PSL's as investments are going to keep it that way. What a magnificent scam the owners have hoisted upon their fans. "Build our stadiums and let us sucker you into a lifetime obligation!" Genius, man, pure genius.



Hey, 2-14 will get anyone fired.

He likes Kubiak. He likes that he's got hometown roots. He's stated that on more than one occasion. If that factors in his decision and by how much, who knows? But there is no denying that it feeds his loyalty to the coach. So yeah, perhaps matter of degrees, but if it's about marketing, that hometown hero sub-plot (now fortified with vitamin Wade!) is a good angle to sell.

Same thing with David Carr being a God-fearing family man. ALL evidence pointed to him being a bust, but McNair would have none of it. Kubiak's ego thought he could do something, and it was only when his head coach gave Carr the thumbs down did he finally give in to letting him go.

Y'all seem to expect savy football decisions from our owner. At what point in the past decade has he displayed a tendency to make front office decisions from an insightful analytical perspective?

I swear it's like the last 8 year of this forum never happened sometime. Déjà vu X ∞.

The biggest thing with this team is hindsight would kill you if you let it . It's also apparent that Bob gets to close to the help and I don't mean the cheerleaders . Look at the drafts since 2006 and notice the teams with top 10 picks . See which ones are good and took off and which ones can't get off the ground . :choke:

Double Barrel
09-27-2011, 02:53 PM
Agree to disagree and all that jazz I guess. Regardless, I'm with you that McNair pretty much sucks as an owner. Thanks for bringing football back to Houston, Bobby, but other than that, you have been a pretty unremarkable owner.

I hope you are wrong. Neither of us has the evidence to prove the other wrong because Houstonians have never staged any kind of mass protest at Reliant. So we really don't know what Bobby would do if his back was against the wall, the people were chanting anti-Kubiak rhetoric, and he was forced to either fire the guy or be hated by all of Houston and have the press bash his franchise like never before. IF it happens, Houstonians are fools to not even try to get Bobby's attention.

Oh, don't get me wrong: I think you are correct that McNair would pay attention if fans stopped buying tickets.

But, I suppose where we disagree is that I do not the think Texans fans will ever follow through with it.

PSL's have created a different kind of fan in some ways. Lots of folks going to "the big event" now. Wine and cheese and luxury. I've noticed it for years. I'm not insulting them, but it's obvious that the majority of PSL holders at Reliant are not hardcore 'live and breathe' football junkies.

DexmanC
09-27-2011, 03:06 PM
I didn't know McNair funded this project (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=u1N6QfuIh0g)? Who knew? the low bar satisfaction on Kirby drive was maddening in the past. I knew they didn't take winning a Super Bowl seriously a few years ago when they were hurting their hands patting themselves on the back for going 9-7. Everyone just assumed that they were "there". What they were was mediocre. They have been humbled a bit since then so I think the bar is higher now.

LOL. The "best 9-7 ever" included 5 straight losses in the AFC South. Now
that the AFC South appears weak, people a writing the Texans in as the
shoe-in champion. "NFC Westing" your way into the playoffs should
not be good enough for this fanbase nor team owner, but we all know
it will be.

Demanding excellence from this coaching staff in its SIXTH SEASON must
be too much of a "negative" thing.

Grams
09-27-2011, 03:33 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong: I think you are correct that McNair would pay attention if fans stopped buying tickets.

But, I suppose where we disagree is that I do not the think Texans fans will ever follow through with it.

PSL's have created a different kind of fan in some ways. Lots of folks going to "the big event" now. Wine and cheese and luxury. I've noticed it for years. I'm not insulting them, but it's obvious that the majority of PSL holders at Reliant are not hardcore 'live and breathe' football junkies.


A lot of us are sitting at home watching the games on TV, yelling and screaming because we cannot afford tickets.

Kimmy
09-27-2011, 04:04 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong: I think you are correct that McNair would pay attention if fans stopped buying tickets.

But, I suppose where we disagree is that I do not the think Texans fans will ever follow through with it.

PSL's have created a different kind of fan in some ways. Lots of folks going to "the big event" now. Wine and cheese and luxury. I've noticed it for years. I'm not insulting them, but it's obvious that the majority of PSL holders at Reliant are not hardcore 'live and breathe' football junkies.

Not me! I curse those damn club people every game for being inside on the carpet instead of in their seat where it matters!

Honoring Earl 34
09-27-2011, 04:30 PM
A lot of us are sitting at home watching the games on TV, yelling and screaming because we cannot afford tickets.

So Grams ... when your FF player is playing the Texans who do you pull for ?

Double Barrel
09-27-2011, 04:30 PM
A lot of us are sitting at home watching the games on TV, yelling and screaming because we cannot afford tickets.

yep, you and me both. I was a non-PSL season ticket holder for the first 7 seasons, but due to economic reasons and wanting to spend time with the kids, I decided to get off that train.

I'm still in front of my TV every football Sunday, though. :texflag:

Not me! I curse those damn club people every game for being inside on the carpet instead of in their seat where it matters!

I sat in the club level for the first pre-season game. I went with a buddy, and we always wear our jerseys and Texans hard hats. We got the weirdest looks from folks on that level. Some thought it was cool, but most looked at us in a way that made us felt that we did not belong there.

Granted it was a pre-season game, but most of the people on that level were on the inside of the glass enjoying the luxuries of that level. I've noticed for years, though, that this level is frequently empty when I looked down from the 500 endzone seats that I usually buy.

thunderkyss
09-27-2011, 04:36 PM
Demanding excellence from this coaching staff in its SIXTH SEASON must
be too much of a "negative" thing.

What makes you think you're the only one "Demanding excellence" just because we aren't constantly negative & acting like *******s don't mean we don't demand excellence.

Which reminds me.

If things were different, & we were Saints fans. We'd be crying & demanding excellence from our team who came out lethargic & "unprepaired" to play a home game when it really matters, the first 12.

That's your ignorant idea of excellence.

The rest of us understand this is football, this is the NFL & even the worst team is loaded with talent.

We spanked the Saints for 3 qtrs & 6 minutes. That's only six weeks into a new defensive scheme. But that doesn't mean crap to you.

You're stuck in the past & we're trying to look forward..... the team is moving forward. But you can't enjoy it.

Like those idiots who wished they had a boy, & can't enjoy their time with their daughter, until it's too late, she's all growed up & has moved past you.

thunderkyss
09-27-2011, 04:44 PM
yep, you and me both. I was a non-PSL season ticket holder for the first 7 seasons, but due to economic reasons and wanting to spend time with the kids, I decided to get off that train.

I'm still in front of my TV every football Sunday, though. :texflag:


There ain't nothing wrong with fans like you. You're still a real fan... a good fan. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Even the guys on the carpet in the air conditioned clubs don't bother me. Not all of us are the stand-up for 60 minutes Bullpen type fans.

What I don't like, what I can't stand, are the *******s who say they're not going to spend their money on this team until we become winners or whatever......

What kind of fan is that.

Grams
09-27-2011, 04:59 PM
So Grams ... when your FF player is playing the Texans who do you pull for ?

Texans first - fantasy football guy second!!!

thunderkyss
09-27-2011, 05:03 PM
So Grams ... when your FF player is playing the Texans who do you pull for ?

I pull for the Texans to win, my FF guy to get a lot of garbage yards & points.

Grams
09-27-2011, 05:10 PM
There ain't nothing wrong with fans like you. You're still a real fan... a good fan. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Even the guys on the carpet in the air conditioned clubs don't bother me. Not all of us are the stand-up for 60 minutes Bullpen type fans.

What I don't like, what I can't stand, are the *******s who say they're not going to spend their money on this team until we become winners or whatever......

What kind of fan is that.

A fan who does not realize that this is just a game for entertainment. Some take it way beyond and get highly upset (I will be nice) when we lose.

I get upset when they lose, but an hour or so later it is over and done. Something I have no control over is not going to make me that mad that I have to rant and rave and try to piss others off. Now don't mess with my kids and grandkids, cats and dog, cause then I would have to hurt you.

Some people need to remember that the sun will still rise the next day - even if the Texans lose.

Double Barrel
09-27-2011, 05:26 PM
A fan who does not realize that this is just a game for entertainment. Some take it way beyond and get highly upset (I will be nice) when we lose.

I get upset when they lose, but an hour or so later it is over and done. Something I have no control over is not going to make me that mad that I have to rant and rave and try to piss others off. Now don't mess with my kids and grandkids, cats and dog, cause then I would have to hurt you.

Some people need to remember that the sun will still rise the next day - even if the Texans lose.

yep, well said.. I learned the value of that particular lesson - that it's just game that we watch - on a nice day in 1993. I was in a funk for a solid week after that debacle, but it taught me a lesson that I will never forget: perspective, you've got to keep it.

Besides, Kroger doesn't discount bread and milk if the Texans win a Super Bowl. It's fun as a fan, but in real life, it gains me nothing but a good time.

Lucky
09-27-2011, 05:45 PM
We spanked the Saints for 3 qtrs & 6 minutes. That's only six weeks into a new defensive scheme. But that doesn't mean crap to you.
It shouldn't mean crap to anyone. When are we going to get past the "Must play well" mentality? Tell me when the Texans do something worth celebrating. Beating two hapless opponents and preforming another "El Foldo" doesn't get even a golf clap out of me.

I'm going to keep watching the games. I enjoy watching games. But, I'm also critiquing the games. And my ignorant idea of excellence involves winning the games. When I see excellence, I say so. When. It hasn't happened, yet.

steelbtexan
09-27-2011, 05:49 PM
DB,

You seem to have a great sense of how the Texans are currently being run and what's important to BoBBy. Hate to say it but Buck Fud was probably a better owner. (God how I hate thinking that way)

The only way I see that can change the status quo is if the PSL keep paying but stop going to games. That and 2-14 is what got Capers fired.

Second Honeymoon
09-27-2011, 05:55 PM
yep, well said.. I learned the value of that particular lesson - that it's just game that we watch - on a nice day in 1993. I was in a funk for a solid week after that debacle, but it taught me a lesson that I will never forget: perspective, you've got to keep it.

Besides, Kroger doesn't discount bread and milk if the Texans win a Super Bowl. It's fun as a fan, but in real life, it gains me nothing but a good time.

This.

Yeah, I still consumed the KoolAid after they brought in Buddy Ryan, Wilber Marshall and a healthy Lamar Lathon back though. That year helped me forget 35-3....at least until Joe Montana punked us in the Astrodome. Ripped my heart out and once Buddy was let go, I got the picture and put things in perspective as you did. Fortunately as things deteriorated fast.

I have been critical of this franchise, but only when it is seriously retarding our team's growth (Carr, Casserley, Smith, Bush, Myers) I enjoy the product a lot more since Matt arrived, but it isn't the same as the weeklong malaise that Oiler losses brought. That loss was the closest feeling to an Oiler big game meltdown since Rosencopter...and I am already over it. Beat Steelers at home and you can write off the Saints loss as learning experience. Lose v. Steelers and things could nosedive.

Second Honeymoon
09-27-2011, 05:58 PM
Note: Myers has proved me wrong to a great extent. He has been a leader on a relatively effective unit for some time now, so he gets scoreboard. I thought the guy was awful. He's not great but definitely not awful.

Ckw
09-27-2011, 06:05 PM
It shouldn't mean crap to anyone. When are we going to get past the "Must play well" mentality? Tell me when the Texans do something worth celebrating. Beating two hapless opponents and preforming another "El Foldo" doesn't get even a golf clap out of me.

I'm going to keep watching the games. I enjoy watching games. But, I'm also critiquing the games. And my ignorant idea of excellence involves winning the games. When I see excellence, I say so. When. It hasn't happened, yet.

Bravo! Rep sent your way. I have nothing else to add.

drs23
09-27-2011, 06:56 PM
There ain't nothing wrong with fans like you. You're still a real fan... a good fan. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Even the guys on the carpet in the air conditioned clubs don't bother me. Not all of us are the stand-up for 60 minutes Bullpen type fans.

What I don't like, what I can't stand, are the *******s who say they're not going to spend their money on this team until we become winners or whatever......

What kind of fan is that.

Bandwagoners? The bastids.

DexmanC
09-27-2011, 06:59 PM
Six years.
19 road games against winning teams.
1 win.

Where's the Kool-Aid?

playa465
09-27-2011, 07:03 PM
What makes you think you're the only one "Demanding excellence" just because we aren't constantly negative & acting like *******s don't mean we don't demand excellence.

Which reminds me.

If things were different, & we were Saints fans. We'd be crying & demanding excellence from our team who came out lethargic & "unprepaired" to play a home game when it really matters, the first 12.

We are not the Saints...no matter how long it took, they have experienced winning and we are trying to get there.

That's your ignorant idea of excellence.

The rest of us understand this is football, this is the NFL & even the worst team is loaded with talent.

We spanked the Saints for 3 qtrs & 6 minutes. That's only six weeks into a new defensive scheme. But that doesn't mean crap to you.

How long is an NFL game?

You're stuck in the past & we're trying to look forward..... the team is moving forward. But you can't enjoy it.

The past is what we measure b/c the future is undetermined...you can not move forward unless you PROGRESS from the past...in the NFL that means winning and nothing else.

Like those idiots who wished they had a boy, & can't enjoy their time with their daughter, until it's too late, she's all growed up & has moved past you.

I understand your points, but you can't get every1 to see things how you do (I'm not saying I agree or disagree)...I like ur spirit though, you defend to the end...and in the end we all want the Texans to WIN

Arky
09-27-2011, 07:43 PM
Road trends? (http://walterfootball.com/nflpicks2011_03early.php) Here's one:

"Gary Kubiak is 10-2 ATS in his second consecutive road game."

ATS = against the spread

That would be 10-3, now after losing in New Orleans. FYI, this condition comes up two more times this year @Tennessee and @Jacksonville...

steelbtexan
09-27-2011, 08:13 PM
Road trends? (http://walterfootball.com/nflpicks2011_03early.php) Here's one:

"Gary Kubiak is 10-2 ATS in his second consecutive road game."

ATS = against the spread

That would be 10-3, now after losing in New Orleans. FYI, this condition comes up two more times this year @Tennessee and @Jacksonville...

Valuable knowledge

1-18 says it all. That's the only stat that matters.

Oh well, carry on

Arky
09-27-2011, 08:18 PM
Valuable knowledge

1-18 says it all. That's the only stat that matters.

Oh well, carry on

Well, dismiss it if you wish but I'm sure someone could use the info....

devo-x
09-27-2011, 08:31 PM
This topic is too negative

Yes - I'm disappointed but its not the end of the world. Just think this has the potential to be the only game they lose all season with a record of 15-1 (maybe slightly optimistic) :tiphat:

steelbtexan
09-27-2011, 08:40 PM
Well, dismiss it if you wish but I'm sure someone could use the info....

I wont dismiss it.

I will try to make a few $$$$ off of it. Thanks for the knowledge.

MEGA SWATT
09-27-2011, 08:49 PM
Six years.
19 road games against winning teams.
1 win.

Where's the Kool-Aid?

It could have been worse! 0-19.:jogger::scarygirl:

TexansFanatic
09-27-2011, 09:02 PM
It could have been worse! 0-19.:jogger::scarygirl:

Ha! Excellent. So, you look at the glass as being 1/19th full. Well done.

MEGA SWATT
09-27-2011, 09:45 PM
Ha! Excellent. So, you look at the glass as being 1/19th full. Well done.

:goodpost:

DexmanC
09-27-2011, 10:59 PM
Do you guys remember Mike Tomlin's first game as a head coach?

Was it similar to Mark Sanchez's first game as a rookie NFL QB on the road?

lmao. Wasn't Sanchez's head coach also in his first game?
See a trend?

I don't see it, help me out.

http://i54.tinypic.com/hrn860.jpg

I read that visual aids are more effective

thunderkyss
09-28-2011, 09:32 AM
I read that visual aids are more effective

Tomlins first game as a head coach was against Miami.

2006, the Steelers didn't play the Texans.

I don't get what you're getting at.

TexansFanatic
09-28-2011, 01:32 PM
Tomlins first game as a head coach was against Miami.



Tomlin's first game was at Cleveland and he won.

Rex Ryan's first game was at Houston and he won.

I believe Dex's point is that those two coaches seemed to have no trouble with beating a winning team on the road. They did it on their very first try.

HOU-TEX
09-28-2011, 01:37 PM
1 and 18?

"So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*"

Texan_Bill
09-28-2011, 01:46 PM
1 and 18?

"So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*"

Hilarious!

sandman
09-28-2011, 04:24 PM
OK, so this is not a defense of any kind, just something to show stats on SOS for road games over the last three years:

Road Opponent overall Records:
2010- 63-65
2009- 64-64
2008- 66-60

Overall Texan Road Record 2008-2010 = 8-16
>.500 = 1-9
=.500 = 2-2
<.500 = 5-5

7 of the 18 losses have been based on plays at the end of the game or OT.

In 2008 alone, they played THREE 12+ win teams on the road.

They have played FIVE road games in that three year time span against teams that either went to or were one year removed from being in a Super Bowl.

So if we are going to look at stats, we need to recognize that they have had a strong opponent SOS when it comes to road games the last three seasons.

Quite frankly, if you're going to b!tch about this team not getting over the hump and into the playoffs, focus on the fact that they can't beat the BAD teams consistently on the road.

ThaShark316
09-28-2011, 05:08 PM
LOL. The "best 9-7 ever" included 5 straight losses in the AFC South. Now
that the AFC South appears weak, people a writing the Texans in as the
shoe-in champion. "NFC Westing" your way into the playoffs should
not be good enough for this fanbase nor team owner, but we all know
it will be.

Demanding excellence from this coaching staff in its SIXTH SEASON must
be too much of a "negative" thing.

You like visuals, right?

http://raisingzona.com/files/2011/01/cardinal21.jpg

Can we PLEASE "NFC WEST" our asses to the playoffs?

DexmanC
09-28-2011, 11:36 PM
OK, so this is not a defense of any kind, just something to show stats on SOS for road games over the last three years:

Road Opponent overall Records:
2010- 63-65
2009- 64-64
2008- 66-60

Overall Texan Road Record 2008-2010 = 8-16
>.500 = 1-9
=.500 = 2-2
<.500 = 5-5

7 of the 18 losses have been based on plays at the end of the game or OT.

In 2008 alone, they played THREE 12+ win teams on the road.

They have played FIVE road games in that three year time span against teams that either went to or were one year removed from being in a Super Bowl.

So if we are going to look at stats, we need to recognize that they have had a strong opponent SOS when it comes to road games the last three seasons.

Quite frankly, if you're going to b!tch about this team not getting over the hump and into the playoffs, focus on the fact that they can't beat the BAD teams consistently on the road.

1-18 would indicate they have a hard time beating ANYBODY on the road.
Six years and counting...

sandman
09-29-2011, 09:42 AM
1-18 would indicate they have a hard time beating ANYBODY on the road.
Six years and counting...

Not true. That is 1-18 against teams with winning records at the end of the year. They could have easily had a dominate winning percentage against bad teams on the road and thus had a respectable overall road record. Which of course, would have completely changed the dynamics of their last five seasons and we would all be praising the genius that is Kubes.

My point was that the root cause of the .500 record year over year followed by a step back last year was their inability to beat bad teams on the road. Focusing on their record against good teams on the road is just a strawman argument to complain about Kubiak.

thunderkyss
09-29-2011, 12:04 PM
Focusing on their record against good teams on the road is just a strawman argument to complain about Kubiak.

Especially without comparing it to how other coaches do against "good teams" on the road.

The standard.. may be 3-16 for all we know during that same period.

I would doubt it, but who knows?

infantrycak
09-29-2011, 12:15 PM
Especially without comparing it to how other coaches do against "good teams" on the road.

The standard.. may be 3-16 for all we know during that same period.

I would doubt it, but who knows?

What would be most meaningful would be to find teams with +/- 5 wins of the Texans record during Kubiak's tenure and examine their records.

Runner
09-29-2011, 12:27 PM
What would be most meaningful would be to find teams with +/- 5 wins of the Texans record during Kubiak's tenure and examine their records.

I'd like to see this number grouped by good, average, and bad teams. Comparing to just teams comparable to the Texans just gives a feel for just how close to average they've been.

I'd like to see how elite teams do in comparison, since year after year the expectations are that the Texans are very good if not elite. If the good teams are significantly better than 1-18, that might point to historical Texan problems other than hurricanes, injuries, and hard schedules. If the good teams aren't any better, that would tell us that 1-18 does NOT signify that the Texans have failed in this category of game.

thunderkyss
09-29-2011, 12:33 PM
The way I've always looked at it, is that I have no clue what it takes to build a football team from scratch, much less how to rebuild on that was botched from the beginning.

The next best thing I have to compare them to are the teams that have been perennial losers.... I'm honest about it, that's what we are.

The 49ers haven't done anything since 2002. Detroit even longer. Buffalo is in that group as well. You show me a coach going to one of those three cities & doing something in less than 4 years, then you've got something.

Because I don't think it's a talent issue, I think it's a mindset & if you've ever tried, you know it's extremely difficult to change a mindset. I don't think you can do it by changing out the coaching (& managerial staff) every three years.

People who do the things the right way will eventually achieve excellence. You've just got to keep whittling the people out of your organization who aren't dedicated to excellence, that is if you can't change them.

I can see how Bob thinks Gary is one of those guys doing the right thing, but after 5 years, you should have the foundation you need, & ready to take the next step. I thank Gary for everything he's done this far, but don't understand the decision not to inject the organization with new leadership at that level, or the Rick Smith level, I truly feel something should have happened there by now.

Doesn't mean that I don't support Gary, I just have no faith in him right now. My faith is in Bob, while I don't agree with what he did, I do agree it has just as much a chance of succeeding as what I would have done. Maybe more.

I looked at Buffalo's situation a couple of years ago, when they hired Chan Gailey & I was like, "See, that could be us... " Fire the coach we have now & take whatever is available. Cowher may be saying the right things, but when it comes time to put his name on the dotted line, he could go to another team for more money or control or something. For all I know, the Rooney's are telling him that would be a drastic mistake, to give Bill what he's asking for, I don't know.

But the Bills seem to have it going their way, they're playing good football on both sides of the ball... Drayton Florence was another guy I said didn't belong here & he is also part of what's going on in Buffalo....

So what do I know?

thunderkyss
09-29-2011, 12:39 PM
I'd like to see this number grouped by good, average, and bad teams. Comparing to just teams comparable to the Texans just gives a feel for just how close to average they've been.

I'd like to see how elite teams do in comparison, since year after year the expectations are that the Texans are very good if not elite. If the good teams are significantly better than 1-18, that might point to historical Texan problems other than hurricanes, injuries, and hard schedules. If the good teams aren't any better, that would tell us that 1-18 does NOT signify that the Texans have failed in this category of game.

The Texans have never played a SOS below .500

That's the schedule before the season, the one nobody wants to put any weight in. The final schedule usually, at the end of the season, is not usually that far off. I've got the numbers somewhere. It will definitely be different this year if no other team in the AFC South wins 10 games (to replace the Colts).

If I remember right, the only team that I can remember in recent times to play a schedule as hard or harder than the Texans and get to the play-offs were the 2010 Jets.

So take it for what it's worth.

The Texans, with all the learning how to build a franchise crap, have also had to play against the best of the best year in & year out.

AT least since 2006, that's as far as I have looked.

I'm not saying that's an excuse, 5 seasons is 5 seasons. If we were to fall to 8-8, 7-9, I could probably understand, but to go to 6-10 the way we went to 6-10, that's... I'm not going to go there.

infantrycak
09-29-2011, 12:57 PM
Well I did one comparison. 2006-2010 the Texans under Kubiak had 37 wins. In that same time the Cardinals (who have been to the playoffs twice) have also had 37 wins. During that period the Cardinals were 1 -13 against winning teams.

2nd one: Same time period the Seahawks (who also have been to the playoffs twice) had 35 wins. During that period the Seahawks were 2-17 against winning teams.

3rd one: Same time period the Falcons (who also have been to the playoffs twice) had 44 wins. During that period the Falcons were 4-14 against winning teams.

sandman
09-29-2011, 02:20 PM
Well I did one comparison. 2006-2010 the Texans under Kubiak had 37 wins. In that same time the Cardinals (who have been to the playoffs twice) have also had 37 wins. During that period the Cardinals were 1 -13 against winning teams.

2nd one: Same time period the Seahawks (who also have been to the playoffs twice) had 35 wins. During that period the Seahawks were 2-17 against winning teams.

3rd one: Same time period the Falcons (who also have been to the playoffs twice) had 44 wins. During that period the Falcons were 4-14 against winning teams.

Seattle = 2006 Super Bowl
Arizona = 2009 Super Bowl

I see what you did there...

thunderkyss
09-29-2011, 02:40 PM
Seattle = 2006 Super Bowl
Arizona = 2009 Super Bowl

I see what you did there...

Seattle = NFC West
Arizona = NFC West

I thought he meant you can get away with a record like that in the AFC West. I didn't make the SB connection.

TexansFanatic
09-29-2011, 07:03 PM
Good teams win games on the road.
Championship teams win consistently on the road.

This article was written 5 years ago, so it's possible that Seattle or Arizona has broken some of precedents that were in place back then. Regardless, a worthy read.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Winning on the road still a mystery to many
Good teams win on the road, and usually those are teams with character, leadership and toughness, writes Len Pasquarelli.
Updated: August 30, 2006, 2:15 PM ET


Over the past 10 seasons, just a half-dozen NFL teams have winning road records and, not surprisingly, five of the six rank among the franchises with the best records overall in that stretch.

The point is a pretty obvious one, said Pittsburgh inside linebacker James Farrior, part of a Steelers' team that since 1996 has compiled the league's best road winning percentage (.550) and the fourth-best winning mark overall (.616).

"Good teams win, period, no matter where they're playing," Farrior said. "It's always a challenge in this league to win consistently on the road. It's definitely one of the best feelings you can have, to go into someone else's place and come out with a win, but that is what the good teams do. Really, being able to win on the road is what sets teams apart in this league. I mean, you don't see many playoff teams with losing road records, right?"

Uh, no, you don't. At least not lately.

Since 2002, when the NFL adopted its current eight-division alignment, just three of 48 playoff teams have had losing road records -- Seattle (2-6) in 2003, and St. Louis (2-6) and Minnesota (3-5) in 2004. In that span, playoff teams registered an aggregate road mark of 235-148-1, for a .613 winning percentage.

But extend the numbers even further out, to include championship ramifications, and they are even more staggering, demonstrating that franchises that return to their home base clutching a Vince Lombardi Trophy, do so, in part, because they are road warriors. And the teams sitting at home for the playoffs are there, to some degree, because they are roadkill.

Some numbers to chew on: The six teams with winning road records over the past decade have combined for seven Super Bowl titles. Of the group, only Indianapolis has failed to make a Super Bowl appearance in the past 10 years.

No team with a losing road record has ever advanced to the Super Bowl in its 40-year history, and of the 80 teams that have competed in the championship game, only six finished at .500 on the road. Denver, at Super Bowl XXXII in 1997, was the last team with a non-winning road record to participate in the title game. The combined regular-season road record of the 20 franchises that have played in the past 10 Super Bowl games is 112-48, a mind-blowing .700 winning percentage.

Clearly, it's difficult to succeed in the NFL if a team wins only at home.

"Winning on the road ... clearly is a formula for success," said wide receiver Rod Smith, whose Denver Broncos own the best record in the league in the past 10 years, a .663 winning percentage, fueled by the third-best mark on the road. "It's what separates teams."

Indeed, there are just six franchises with losing home records over the last decade, but only six who are on the plus-side of the ledger on the road. It seems that when a lot of teams pack their luggage, they also stow any chance of winning.

Why is it, though, that in a league where roughly 25 percent of the games every year are decided by three points or less, and about 45 percent of the contests have margins of seven points or fewer, the statistics are so skewed against road teams? If, as Rod Smith suggested, winning road games is a formula for success, why haven't more teams and their coaches been able to divine the recipe for triumphing over travel? Why, in a league whose overriding bedrock is competitive balance and where everyone claims that teams are so evenly matched, is venue such a factor in victory?

Most players and coaches have no easy answers to those questions.

Teams travel on charter flights, typically bivouac at upscale hotels, are well-fed and operate on a tight, well-planned schedule, with only a few hours of road time not occupied by meetings or club functions. There is a kind of regularity and rhythm to it, but for whatever reason, hitting the road is excess baggage for many teams.

"I think [travel] gets into people's heads sometimes," said Jacksonville middle linebacker Mike Peterson. "It becomes a psychological deal. You hear all this stuff about, 'Well, the routine has been [interrupted].' Or, like, 'We've got to accept the challenge of going on the road.' Really, how many times have you heard teams talk about going on the road as a positive thing? You don't every hear guys saying, 'OK! A road trip!' It's like you're set up for failure. That's why you've got to be strong and ignore all that stuff."

Said a veteran safety one AFC team: "There's no excuse for some teams to be so bad on the road. Yeah, the environment is tougher. But, I mean, if a doctor has to go to a different hospital to do surgery, he can't just say to the patient, 'This is going to be tough, because I'm not [familiar] with this operating room.' Or if you're some businessman on the road and negotiating some big contract, you can't blow the deal because the meeting isn't in your own office, right? A lot of people travel for business, do their jobs and don't think twice about being on the road. The good teams view road trips as just that, a weekend business trip, and the bad teams have kind of a woe-is-us [mind-set]."

In speaking with players, coaches and team officials about performance on the road, it was notable how often three elements that have been the overarching themes in this week's NFL coverage on ESPN.com were cited -- character, leadership and toughness.

It isn't just happenstance, acknowledged Indianapolis defensive tackle Montae Reagor, that most good road teams are usually good teams, period. Or that those teams don't lack for leadership.

"When you walk into a [road] environment, you want as many character guys walking in there with you as you can get," Reagor said. "Because at some point on the road, something negative is going to happen, and it's how you respond to that incident that determines the outcome. And leaders always respond better to those kinds of things. You've got to have a focus, a single-mindedness, and tough people have that."

That helps explain why the Steelers, the league's best road club over the past decade in the regular season, were able to win three playoff contests away from home on their way to the Super Bowl XL title. Over the past two seasons, Pittsburgh's record on the road and at home are the same, 13-3 in both instances. There are few coaches as tough-minded as Bill Cowher, and he has surrounded himself with players who share that kind of mentality.

But it isn't only intangibles that make for successful road teams. And it isn't merely lack of character that accounts for the abysmal road performances of many franchises. There is a football element involved, too, and that should not be overlooked.

Good road franchises tend to be teams that run the ball well. Why so? Because even in an era of highly sophisticated passing games, running the ball is the surest recipe for victory. On the road, it often takes the home crowd out of the game because, for fans, there is nothing more energy-sapping than watching the opposition's offense monopolize the ball. Teams that win on the road tend not to panic and abandon their game plan if they fall behind early, and they find a way to hang in against adversity. And they don't turn the ball over -- a transgression in any contest, but particularly in road games.

Generally, teams that succeed on the road are simply, as Farrior noted, good teams. But they are also teams with collective will, resilience and staying power, and those are traits only the best teams possess.

"They talk about road warriors, but good teams are warriors no matter where they play," Farrior said.

LINK (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview06/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2565901)

Corrosion
09-29-2011, 07:58 PM
Kubiak could win back to back to back superbowls and .... Someone would find a reason to *****.


He put them in position to win this game .... The players didnt get the job done. It is that simple.


I hope when they make the playoffs .... people give credit where its due. But I havea feeling that nothing will be good enough for some.

TexansFanatic
09-29-2011, 08:14 PM
Kubiak could win back to back to back superbowls and .... Someone would find a reason to *****.


I'm a Longhorn fan.

I gave Mack Brown 6 years without really bitching. Around 2003 I started getting a little grumpy and thought maybe Mack had done all he could do and it was going to take someone else to win the big one.

Then 2005 happened and Mack proved everyone wrong and won it all in a magical season. At that point I decided Mack should be allowed to coach as long as he wanted to and I haven't bitched once. Even after the debacle of last season, I have defended Mack and said he's earned the right to coach as long as he likes.

But Mack was within striking distance every year before he won it all. Kubiak hasn't been close.

If Kubiak wins a championship, you won't catch me saying anything but nice things about him. I sincerely hope he shuts me up. But I have my doubts....

EllisUnit
09-29-2011, 08:45 PM
Kubiak could win back to back to back superbowls and .... Someone would find a reason to *****.


He put them in position to win this game .... The players didnt get the job done. It is that simple.


I hope when they make the playoffs .... people give credit where its due. But I havea feeling that nothing will be good enough for some.

Agree a lot of people would be upset just cause they were wrong about him. I have found out it is nearly impossible to make most people happy.

DexmanC
09-29-2011, 09:38 PM
Agree a lot of people would be upset just cause they were wrong about him. I have found out it is nearly impossible to make most people happy.

A lot people are annoyed that Kubiak has NOT proved them wrong in 5.2 seasons.
Hell, even Wayne Fontes is laughing at Kubiak now.
If the players won't win for Kubiak, do like most teams and hire a coach they
WILL win for.

Let's hope 2011 is makes the decision on this issue once and for all, one way or the other.

Thorn
09-29-2011, 10:40 PM
Let's hope 2011 is makes the decision on this issue once and for all, one way or the other.

I'll second that emotion.

sandman
09-30-2011, 08:58 AM
A lot people are annoyed that Kubiak has NOT proved them wrong in 5.2 seasons.
Hell, even Wayne Fontes is laughing at Kubiak now.
If the players won't win for Kubiak, do like most teams and hire a coach they
WILL win for.

Let's hope 2011 is makes the decision on this issue once and for all, one way or the other.

Actually, I beg to differ. In 2009 when this team went 9-7, they were 5-3 on the road. The Texans were 1-2 against teams with eventual winning records. The two losses:

Arizona: the infamous goalline stance at the end of the game. Oh, and they went to the Superbowl.

Indy: Kris Brown FG miss in OT. Oh, Indy ended up 14-2 that season.

I don't believe in moral victories, but this team beat who they were supposed to beat and played very well against two of the best teams in the league that year.

Unfortunately, the "two-steps back" curse of 2005 revisited this team in 2010 and they were not able to build on that success.

infantrycak
09-30-2011, 09:55 AM
Good teams win games on the road.
Championship teams win consistently on the road.

Not a bad article but on a different topic than the thread which narrowed the examination to road games against winning teams.

But the article was good. Nice tidbit - the best road team over the ten prior years won just over half their road games - .550.