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Gotta Know
09-25-2011, 11:48 PM
I just got done reviewing every down of the second half.

Brees got the ball out quickly. In fact, only two throws weren't out by a three count.

The Texans D-Line put pressure on Brees but it's almost impossible to get sacks when the offense is playing pitch and catch on quick hitting routes.

Giving a ten yard cushion and running five yards off the receiver while in man coverage is what allowed Brees to win this game. No coverage on his primary read means no need for check downs hence quick throws and no sacks taken.

EllisUnit
09-25-2011, 11:50 PM
I just got done reviewing every down of the second half.

Brees got the ball out quickly. In fact, only two throws weren't out by a three count.

The Texans D-Line put pressure on Brees but it's almost impossible to get sacks when the offense is playing pitch and catch on quick hitting routes.

Giving a ten yard cushion and running five yards off the receiver while in man coverage is what allowed Brees to win this game.

nice first post and i agree. Our CBs should of been playing bump and run coverage, but they were so far off the WRs the whole 2nd half that those short passes are there and eventually they get down the field and good teams like that score.

ThaShark316
09-26-2011, 02:48 AM
Had the red zone O been $$$$$$$$$$ Sunday, the cushion would have been warranted.

mussop
09-26-2011, 07:28 AM
Red zone smed zone, the D cost us that game. Poor adjusting by Phillips. They let Brees get into a rhythm and did nothing to disrupt it. THey just kept sending guys after him even though he was getting rid of the ball so fast they had no chance of getting to him. In that situation you tell the front seven to maintain the pocket and time the passes and get their hands up. Make the short QB have to find lanes to throw the ball through.

TejasTom
09-26-2011, 08:12 AM
Two 3 and outs, one ending in an interception in the 4th didn't help.

Rey
09-26-2011, 08:13 AM
Red zone smed zone, the D cost us that game. Poor adjusting by Phillips. They let Brees get into a rhythm and did nothing to disrupt it. THey just kept sending guys after him even though he was getting rid of the ball so fast they had no chance of getting to him. In that situation you tell the front seven to maintain the pocket and time the passes and get their hands up. Make the short QB have to find lanes to throw the ball through.

The defense could have played better no doubt

But there were failings on both sides of the ball. The defense did get two picks on a guy that hadn't thrown one in the first two games.

The offense got super lucky on the kw miracle catch. That was almost another int by shammy.

Defense should have made some stops at the end. That would have helped. But if offense just scores td's on half if those redzone attempts it changes the complexion of the game and it limits what NO can do offensively.

mussop
09-26-2011, 09:55 AM
The defense could have played better no doubt

But there were failings on both sides of the ball. The defense did get two picks on a guy that hadn't thrown one in the first two games.

The offense got super lucky on the kw miracle catch. That was almost another int by shammy.

Defense should have made some stops at the end. That would have helped. But if offense just scores td's on half if those redzone attempts it changes the complexion of the game and it limits what NO can do offensively.




Yea we should of scored TD's instead of field goals but we still scored 33 points. That should be enough to win. The defense gave up 17 points in a little over 2 minutes and made no adjustments in the 4th quarter to disrupt Brees's timing.

The defense got exposed at the end no matter who is to blame for the loss. Let's just hope Phillips can make the proper adjustments necessary to keep teams in the future from doing the same. he sure didn't make them against the saints.

badboy
09-26-2011, 10:08 AM
nice first post and i agree. Our CBs should of been playing bump and run coverage, but they were so far off the WRs the whole 2nd half that those short passes are there and eventually they get down the field and good teams like that score.KJ cannot play NFL bump and run. He mistimes his bump and is often pushed off balance or just out maneuvered by a vet. He should play off the WR and continue to work on his skills in practice with coaches. The problem is even with a cushion, he is allowing the receiver to get past him. I wonder if his trash talking is throwing off his focus.

Mr teX
09-26-2011, 10:12 AM
Red zone smed zone, the D cost us that game. Poor adjusting by Phillips. They let Brees get into a rhythm and did nothing to disrupt it. THey just kept sending guys after him even though he was getting rid of the ball so fast they had no chance of getting to him. In that situation you tell the front seven to maintain the pocket and time the passes and get their hands up. Make the short QB have to find lanes to throw the ball through.

brees is too good for that & in the end, you'd be playing right into sean peyton's hands by doing that. the reason they went to the quick hitters in the 1st place was to nuetralize wade's blitzing. you stop doing that as an adjustment to the quick hitting plays then its highly likely u dont get enough pressure just rushing 3, 4 and he really gets to camp in the pocket, get comfy & things open up further down the field.


i likr what wade did, keep the heat on, make those guys move the ball down the field on 8-12 play drives that eat clock, & let your guys make plays for you or hope that someone makes a mistake on offense for them. worked for the 1st 3 quarters, not so much in the 4th, & our offense just couldn't stem the tide enough.

silvrhand
09-26-2011, 10:14 AM
brees is too good for that & in the end, you'd be playing right into sean peyton's hands by doing that. the reason they went to the quick hitters in the 1st place was to nuetralize wade's blitzing. you stop doing that as an adjustment to the quick hitting plays then its highly likely u dont get enough pressure just rushing 3, 4 and he really gets to camp in the pocket, get comfy & things open up further down the field.


i likr what wade did, keep the heat on, make those guys move the ball down the field on 8-12 play drives that eat clock, & let your guys make plays for you or hope that someone makes a mistake on offense for them. worked for the 1st 3 quarters, not so much in the 4th, & the offense just couldn't stem the tide enough.

The saints have been lighting everyone up including the superbowl champions, we haven't been the only victim of their offense.

Mr teX
09-26-2011, 10:21 AM
The saints have been lighting everyone up including the superbowl champions, we haven't been the only victim of their offense.

hey, im right there with you, its just hard to get others in here to understand that amidst the fallout in here. they're extremely explosive & in my opinion, there's no shame in getting torched by an offense of this caliber......they've done it to everyone this year & for the last 5 years. there's only other team in the nfl that's capable of doing that & thats the packers.

TimeKiller
09-26-2011, 10:23 AM
Yeah, quick throws means a clean QB. Problem is once NOLA figured that out, there were no more adjustments to be seen. Bump and run? Jump a route since you know it's coming? Nope. They also let KJ get fried to a crispy crackledy crunch and didn't seem to be bothered enough to take him out. I'm sitting here thinking, if I was coach, would I even be wondering whether or not to keep him? Because I certanly wouldn't be playing him and I might not even let him sit on the bench. The bench is for people who need a rest, aka everyone that has seen this guy play.

NO defensive adjustments. NONE.

Mr teX
09-26-2011, 10:33 AM
Yeah, quick throws means a clean QB. Problem is once NOLA figured that out, there were no more adjustments to be seen. Bump and run? Jump a route since you know it's coming? Nope. They also let KJ get fried to a crispy crackledy crunch and didn't seem to be bothered enough to take him out. I'm sitting here thinking, if I was coach, would I even be wondering whether or not to keep him? Because I certanly wouldn't be playing him and I might not even let him sit on the bench. The bench is for people who need a rest, aka everyone that has seen this guy play.

NO defensive adjustments. NONE.

that offense has too much speed, that we just couldn't match up with. what adjustments could've been made? bump & run? do u really want cush out there trying to jam sproles at the LOS? KJ/mccain/harris trying to bump moore/meachem? Quinn/ Cush trying to jam graham? no thank you. the only thing that would've led too is quicker scoring drives for nola.

silvrhand
09-26-2011, 10:35 AM
Yeah, quick throws means a clean QB. Problem is once NOLA figured that out, there were no more adjustments to be seen. Bump and run? Jump a route since you know it's coming? Nope. They also let KJ get fried to a crispy crackledy crunch and didn't seem to be bothered enough to take him out. I'm sitting here thinking, if I was coach, would I even be wondering whether or not to keep him? Because I certanly wouldn't be playing him and I might not even let him sit on the bench. The bench is for people who need a rest, aka everyone that has seen this guy play.

NO defensive adjustments. NONE.

sigh.. another KJ attack wow.. imagine that. KJ wasn't the only one having issues yesterday JJo got smoked on a TD, and two of the exact same out routes on the goal line for 4 points that looked like pitch and catch, both times he was completely out of the play.

Texanmike02
09-26-2011, 02:02 PM
KJ cannot play NFL bump and run. He mistimes his bump and is often pushed off balance or just out maneuvered by a vet. He should play off the WR and continue to work on his skills in practice with coaches. The problem is even with a cushion, he is allowing the receiver to get past him. I wonder if his trash talking is throwing off his focus.

He's showed improvement though. He's gone from bump and fall down to bump and move slowly.

Mike

Vinny
09-26-2011, 02:05 PM
KJ cannot play NFL bump and run. He mistimes his bump and is often pushed off balance or just out maneuvered by a vet. He should play off the WR and continue to work on his skills in practice with coaches. The problem is even with a cushion, he is allowing the receiver to get past him. I wonder if his trash talking is throwing off his focus.
actually he is plenty physical to play bump, but he doesn't have enough quickness or speed. Once a guy gets a step on him he's done. Playing off is a problem too. Last night he was the teams leading tackler, but as you noticed, he gave up a bunch of easy throws right in front of him. It ain't trash talking, it ain't coaching. It's a lack of long speed, and quickness. His attitude and his toughness aren't enough.

b0ng
09-26-2011, 02:07 PM
I just got done reviewing every down of the second half.

Brees got the ball out quickly. In fact, only two throws weren't out by a three count.

The Texans D-Line put pressure on Brees but it's almost impossible to get sacks when the offense is playing pitch and catch on quick hitting routes.

Giving a ten yard cushion and running five yards off the receiver while in man coverage is what allowed Brees to win this game. No coverage on his primary read means no need for check downs hence quick throws and no sacks taken.

Gotta be able to cover for more than a 3 count honestly. Of course it was a lot of middle passes that were basically left wide open (Which is something that has been said about the Phillips defense before) every time Brian Cushing rushed, there was an open whomever in the middle about 8 - 12 yards downfield.

silvrhand
09-26-2011, 02:09 PM
Gotta be able to cover for more than a 3 count honestly. Of course it was a lot of middle passes that were basically left wide open (Which is something that has been said about the Phillips defense before) every time Brian Cushing rushed, there was an open whomever in the middle about 8 - 12 yards downfield.

that's cause we went to a nickel package a lot, which means you are going to give up the underneath throws and brian cushing was attempting to cover sproles out of the backfield.

b0ng
09-26-2011, 02:12 PM
that's cause we went to a nickel package a lot, which means you are going to give up the underneath throws and brian cushing was attempting to cover sproles out of the backfield.

After yesterday I expect to see a lot of offensive gameplans vs the Texans revolve around quick drops and short passes over the middle. It honestly just looks like a hole in the defense that anybody can exploit really.

Be interesting to see if we can generate some more pressure vs Pittsburgh's deteriorated offensive line.

mussop
09-26-2011, 02:32 PM
brees is too good for that & in the end, you'd be playing right into sean peyton's hands by doing that. the reason they went to the quick hitters in the 1st place was to nuetralize wade's blitzing. you stop doing that as an adjustment to the quick hitting plays then its highly likely u dont get enough pressure just rushing 3, 4 and he really gets to camp in the pocket, get comfy & things open up further down the field.


i likr what wade did, keep the heat on, make those guys move the ball down the field on 8-12 play drives that eat clock, & let your guys make plays for you or hope that someone makes a mistake on offense for them. worked for the 1st 3 quarters, not so much in the 4th, & our offense just couldn't stem the tide enough.

Brees is barely six foot tall and has had problems with balls getting batted down in the past. He was ripping our defense apart with quick strikes and we weren't getting anywhere near him in the fourth quarter and you're strategy is to just keep doing what we were doing and hope one of their guys makes a mistake? Seriously?

silvrhand
09-26-2011, 02:49 PM
After yesterday I expect to see a lot of offensive gameplans vs the Texans revolve around quick drops and short passes over the middle. It honestly just looks like a hole in the defense that anybody can exploit really.

Be interesting to see if we can generate some more pressure vs Pittsburgh's deteriorated offensive line.

Yah I just hope someone comes off the line and punches Wallace in the nads, put our backup punter to cover him on the play and just punch him in the nads and get ejected lol.. Mike Wallace scares me..

Vinny
09-26-2011, 02:50 PM
Brees is barely six foot tall and has had problems with balls getting batted down in the past. He was ripping our defense apart with quick strikes and we weren't getting anywhere near him in the fourth quarter and you're strategy is to just keep doing what we were doing and hope one of their guys makes a mistake? Seriously?we were obviously taking away the long ball, and were kinda, mostly successful.

Mr teX
09-26-2011, 03:20 PM
Brees is barely six foot tall and has had problems with balls getting batted down in the past. He was ripping our defense apart with quick strikes and we weren't getting anywhere near him in the fourth quarter and you're strategy is to just keep doing what we were doing and hope one of their guys makes a mistake? Seriously?

yes seriously..we got 2 ints off of their mistakes. contrary to popular belief around here, the texans struggling to consistently mount 80+ yard drives last year in an effort to keep pace isnt something exclusive to them. thats hard for any team in the nfl....so i ask u, would u rather their offense take 1 play to go down & score a TD ( like they did against chicago 1 week earlier with a 60 something yard strike down field) or make them put 8 + plays together giving your defense more opportunities to make something happen? And show me a defense brees hasn't ripped apart like that in the last 5 years...i'll give u a hint: there isn't 1.

and you make it seem like this is jimmy clausen we're talking about...someone not good enough to overcome their lack of height in the passing game when people do that to him. this is drew brees. Dude is more than astute at getting his passes off..........even when people try to take his passing lanes away...i mean its not like he hasnt thrown for a gazillion yards over the last 5 years or anything.

Double Barrel
09-26-2011, 03:29 PM
Drew Brees does this to defenses all the time, so I'm not going to jump off the cliff because he did it to the Texans. He's been doing it for years and is easily in the discussion of top 4 QBs in the league right now. Measuring your D against Brees must be analytical, because emotions will cloud your perception, especially anger and disappointment after a loss.

Wade's system has barely been implemented. He did not have an off-season to work these guys out, so after sorting through scrubs in the pre-season, we are looking at about three weeks of real on-the-job-training. This D will look a lot better in a couple of months. Just got to be patient and understand the reality of the situation.

Marcus
09-26-2011, 05:14 PM
Drew Brees does this to defenses all the time, so I'm not going to jump off the cliff because he did it to the Texans. He's been doing it for years and is easily in the discussion of top 4 QBs in the league right now. Measuring your D against Brees must be analytical, because emotions will cloud your perception, especially anger and disappointment after a loss.

Wade's system has barely been implemented. He did not have an off-season to work these guys out, so after sorting through scrubs in the pre-season, we are looking at about three weeks of real on-the-job-training. This D will look a lot better in a couple of months. Just got to be patient and understand the reality of the situation.

Nice post DB. Glad to see someone around here that ain't ready to jump out a window just yet.:)

Naiirb
09-27-2011, 01:29 PM
Pretty good video on just how Brees carved up our defense and how we weren't getting pressure

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8229aced/Drive-of-the-Week-Saints-game-winner

Mr teX
09-27-2011, 01:39 PM
Pretty good video on just how Brees carved up our defense and how we weren't getting pressure

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8229aced/Drive-of-the-Week-Saints-game-winner

I doubt we see a more accurate qb all season. The surgeon-like precision throwing the ball he has is unreal. That pass to graham over cushing & just in front of Manning was just....at least 25 other starting qb's in the league underthrow that ball or overthrow it right into Manning's hands.

Yankee_In_TX
09-27-2011, 01:43 PM
I just got done reviewing every down of the second half.

Brees got the ball out quickly. In fact, only two throws weren't out by a three count.

The Texans D-Line put pressure on Brees but it's almost impossible to get sacks when the offense is playing pitch and catch on quick hitting routes.

Giving a ten yard cushion and running five yards off the receiver while in man coverage is what allowed Brees to win this game. No coverage on his primary read means no need for check downs hence quick throws and no sacks taken.

I was asking that Sunday to the people at my house - how do you defensivley stop the quick slant when it is that quick and it is working?

Mr teX
09-27-2011, 01:47 PM
I was asking that Sunday to the people at my house - how do you defensivley stop the quick slant when it is that quick and it is working?

The only thing you could really do is press man...but your cb's & lb's have to be able to re-route those guys.. & recover if they get beat off the LOS. obviously, we aren't deep, nor quick enough to be able to do that & most teams aren't.

Yankee_In_TX
09-27-2011, 01:52 PM
The only thing you could really do is press man...but your cb's & lb's have to be able to re-route those guys.. & recover if they get beat off the LOS. obviously, we aren't deep, nor quick enough to be able to do that & most teams aren't.

Rep - makes sense what we need to do and why it didn't work.

hradhak
09-27-2011, 01:57 PM
The only thing you could really do is press man...but your cb's & lb's have to be able to re-route those guys.. & recover if they get beat off the LOS. obviously, we aren't deep, nor quick enough to be able to do that & most teams aren't.

I think there is some space in between giving a guy a 10 yard cushion and playing press on the line. Kubiak even said in the presser that the whole team got sloppy down the stretch and didn't buy into gameplan like they did in the first half. That's the most I've heard Kubiak ever call his team out in public.
I think the plan was to give them a small cushion like 3-4 yards, to at least take away the 3 step drop.

I'm not so much worried that we got gashed because it was by one of the best. No NFL defense is going to hold the Saints to 17 points. Now, if Tebow or some other 3rd string QB starts putting up 30 on us, then we have a problem, again.

Mr teX
09-27-2011, 03:57 PM
I think there is some space in between giving a guy a 10 yard cushion and playing press on the line. Kubiak even said in the presser that the whole team got sloppy down the stretch and didn't buy into gameplan like they did in the first half. That's the most I've heard Kubiak ever call his team out in public.
I think the plan was to give them a small cushion like 3-4 yards, to at least take away the 3 step drop.

I'm not so much worried that we got gashed because it was by one of the best. No NFL defense is going to hold the Saints to 17 points. Now, if Tebow or some other 3rd string QB starts putting up 30 on us, then we have a problem, again.

Someone in another thread posted a link to baldinger's breakdown of that last drive by the saints. In it there are tons of freeze frames where you see how far off everyone is on their man. there was only really 1 person in each freeze frame that wasn't inside of 4 yards.

Even with a 3-4 yard cushion, the quick stuff still would've been there b/c they were just too quick & brees is too accurate. The only way to take it away is to disrupt the timing by jamming them at the LOS or getting at brees & we couldn't/wouldn't do any of it. we just weren't deep enough at cb to go 5 wide with them...but then, what team besides the packers have a 4th cb they have a tremendous amount of confidence in? those guys mostly are special teamers.