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fikster
09-25-2011, 06:51 PM
After watching the Saints game and reading a few threads I wanted to ask a the crew a question. Who or what would you be willing to give up for Rodgers-Cromartie or Asante Samuel to clinch our secondary? I'm a believer that KJ or Allen aren't going to cut it for us.

fiasco west
09-25-2011, 06:54 PM
Interesting thought. I bet the Eagles would want a LBer...and I wouldn't give up Meco or Cushing for either.

Maybe a young player like Reed and a 3rd round pick.

fikster
09-25-2011, 06:58 PM
I could see a future 2nd or 3rd with LB not named DeMeco.

welsh texan
09-25-2011, 07:03 PM
Well its hard to imagine our ability to afford either ones contract for starters, although they would undoubtedly be an upgrade.

I'd give up KJ, Slaton and a 2nd for one of them, but can't imagine it being possible.

Frankly I feel the Texans are going to struggle to keep what they've got next off season, Mario and Arian are both going to get paid, and if reports are true we were pretty close to the cap already.

I think we've made our free agency moves now and they've done very well to get who they did. Time to go back to building through the draft now that you've made the step-change in FA, don't want to become the Redskins do you.

Hervoyel
09-25-2011, 07:07 PM
What's the asking price for Asante Samuel again? Wasn't it supposed to be a pair of 2's? So now that we're a few weeks into the season maybe that's become a more reasonable "2" or say a 2 and something farther down. A 4 for instance.

I'd do it. I don't think it's going to happen though. Kareem is a first rounder in his second season. The Texans do not give up on first rounders in their second season. In the long, disgraceful history of Houston Texans first round draft picks you'll note that not one of them has ever been given the hook before everyone on the planet knew that he sucked. I fear that word on Kareem has yet to spread to remote parts of Papua New Guinea. There are some natives there who just know he's from Alabama and supposed to be pretty good.

fikster
09-25-2011, 10:50 PM
What's the asking price for Asante Samuel again? Wasn't it supposed to be a pair of 2's? So now that we're a few weeks into the season maybe that's become a more reasonable "2" or say a 2 and something farther down. A 4 for instance.

I'd do it. I don't think it's going to happen though. Kareem is a first rounder in his second season. The Texans do not give up on first rounders in their second season. In the long, disgraceful history of Houston Texans first round draft picks you'll note that not one of them has ever been given the hook before everyone on the planet knew that he sucked. I fear that word on Kareem has yet to spread to remote parts of Papua New Guinea. There are some natives there who just know he's from Alabama and supposed to be pretty good.

Rep your way on your global knowledge! Legendary!

badboy
09-25-2011, 10:58 PM
What's the asking price for Asante Samuel again? Wasn't it supposed to be a pair of 2's? So now that we're a few weeks into the season maybe that's become a more reasonable "2" or say a 2 and something farther down. A 4 for instance.

I'd do it. I don't think it's going to happen though. Kareem is a first rounder in his second season. The Texans do not give up on first rounders in their second season. In the long, disgraceful history of Houston Texans first round draft picks you'll note that not one of them has ever been given the hook before everyone on the planet knew that he sucked. I fear that word on Kareem has yet to spread to remote parts of Papua New Guinea. There are some natives there who just know he's from Alabama and supposed to be pretty good.I'd give a 2nd in next two years for Asante in a heart beat. I think Wade could tell McNair "it was a mistake to draft KJ and I cannot make him into something he is not." Time to move on and the boss will buy it.

We can easily pick up Asante's contract. Eagles should want to dump some salary so I would not offer a good player.

gtexan02
09-25-2011, 11:00 PM
We need a pass rush

DocBar
09-25-2011, 11:07 PM
What's the asking price for Asante Samuel again? Wasn't it supposed to be a pair of 2's? So now that we're a few weeks into the season maybe that's become a more reasonable "2" or say a 2 and something farther down. A 4 for instance.

I'd do it. I don't think it's going to happen though. Kareem is a first rounder in his second season. The Texans do not give up on first rounders in their second season. In the long, disgraceful history of Houston Texans first round draft picks you'll note that not one of them has ever been given the hook before everyone on the planet knew that he sucked. I fear that word on Kareem has yet to spread to remote parts of Papua New Guinea. There are some natives there who just know he's from Alabama and supposed to be pretty good.Going into this season, I was of the opinion that a lot of that was because we simply didn't have any other option. We've had poor depth because of a pretty bad run of mid round DB picks. KJ's play last season and 3 weeks into this season shows that Phillips had it right when he said “I think technique-wise he needs a lot of work,” Phillips told John McLain of the Houston Chronicle. “I guess he was able to play at Alabama without a lot of technique without worrying about staying low enough or moving his feet, those kinds of things. I think that caught up with him. I think we can coach him. We’ll drill him enough that we’ll go over and over and over.” I guess I was wrong. Let's see what the No-Fly-Zone has to offer. KJ just isn't a cover guy. LINK (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/17/wade-phillips-likes-his-new-defense-but-unsure-about-the-secondary/) for the quote.

BigBull17
09-26-2011, 09:48 AM
We need a pass rush

1. Wade is totally afraid to blitz because of shoddy cb play on one side.

2. It's hard to judge a pass rush vs that stud filled line with Brees doing 2-3 step drops. He is so quick in his release.

3. We need depth at OLB. Reed is NOT up to task yet. The D really struggles when he is in, IMO. It'll get better in time, cause I do believe hes a player.

badboy
09-26-2011, 09:56 AM
If a QB uses a quick release, the Dline has no chance to get there. Your DBs and LBs going into coverage have to negate the play and/or make the receiver regret the catch.

HTown2ATX
09-26-2011, 10:04 AM
What's the asking price for Asante Samuel again? Wasn't it supposed to be a pair of 2's? So now that we're a few weeks into the season maybe that's become a more reasonable "2" or say a 2 and something farther down. A 4 for instance.

I'd do it. I don't think it's going to happen though. Kareem is a first rounder in his second season. The Texans do not give up on first rounders in their second season. In the long, disgraceful history of Houston Texans first round draft picks you'll note that not one of them has ever been given the hook before everyone on the planet knew that he sucked. I fear that word on Kareem has yet to spread to remote parts of Papua New Guinea. There are some natives there who just know he's from Alabama and supposed to be pretty good.

Exactly....example - Okoye.........:vincepalm:

Lucky
09-26-2011, 11:52 AM
We can easily pick up Asante's contract.
Really? The Texans have that much room under the salary cap?

Corrosion
09-26-2011, 11:58 AM
1. Wade is totally afraid to blitz because of shoddy cb play on one side.

2. It's hard to judge a pass rush vs that stud filled line with Brees doing 2-3 step drops. He is so quick in his release.

3. We need depth at OLB. Reed is NOT up to task yet. The D really struggles when he is in, IMO. It'll get better in time, cause I do believe hes a player.

I dont blame the pass rush either .... Mainly because when teams go to quick patterns and 3-5 step drops while exploiting a single read because the CB is playing with too large a cushion .... any QB in the league can light it up.


I really want to see some press coverages .... no more of this 7-10 yards off bullshit especially when they blitz , trust your safety's and corner's to do their jobs rather than conceding those uder routes. I think a big part of this is the coaching staff's lack of confidence in .... Jackson.

badboy
09-26-2011, 12:03 PM
Really? The Texans have that much room under the salary cap?Several posts on this MB and I include another link that Texans @ $118m and two under cap of $120m see link
http://nflfootballnow.com/2011/07/21/2011-nfl-salary-cap-and-floor-where-32-teams-stand/


There exists a $3m amount that new CBA states is cash benefits to a player above the hard cap.

Then $3million can be "borrowed" from a future year. Those three amounts equal $8million without a trade of a player or one being cut. His cap figure and true salary:
http://www.eaglescap.com/Players/AsanteSamuel.html
($9 m and $6m)
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/asante-samuel/

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/asante-samuel/140781

badboy
09-26-2011, 12:05 PM
I dont blame the pass rush either .... Mainly because when teams go to quick patterns and 3-5 step drops while exploiting a single read because the CB is playing with too large a cushion .... any QB in the league can light it up.


I really want to see some press coverages .... no more of this 7-10 yards off bullshit especially when they blitz , trust your safety's and corner's to do their jobs rather than conceding those uder routes. I think a big part of this is the coaching staff's lack of confidence in .... Jackson.Exactly what I've been saying. Phillips is hoping we will not lose games because of KJ while he coaches him up. If so, things need to get better quickly.

Rey
09-26-2011, 12:11 PM
I would love to get Asante in here...I don't know what it would take, or if it's even feasible, but that would make us a much better team...IMO.

Speedy
09-26-2011, 12:14 PM
1. Wade is totally afraid to blitz because of shoddy cb play on one side.

What is considered a blitz in a 3-4? I rewatched every Saints pass play, specifically looking at/for pressure and to see how many the Texans sent and only once in 47 dropbacks by Brees did the Texans just rush 3. They sent five 23 times, rushed six 3 times. 43 times on 47 dropbacks, the Texans rushed 4 or 5.

Only 6 times did they put a hit on him, including the 2 sacks and KJ's hit, and only 7 other times did get close to Brees.

beerlover
09-26-2011, 12:20 PM
Exactly what I've been saying. Phillips is hoping we will not lose games because of KJ while he coaches him up. If so, things need to get better quickly.

Wade moved KJ into the nickle slot which is where I figured they would start Brandon Harris out. They don't use KJ in press coverage anymore at all. When lined up right side he plays off in zone coverage allowing a good solid 10 yard cushion. This allows an absurdly high completion percentage against him. If this is their solution to coaching him up I'm afraid he will never be a NFL cover CB.

eriadoc
09-26-2011, 12:32 PM
I actually thinking Faggins was better than KJ. At least with Faggins, we all knew he was taken at a later spot int he draft, was more suited to be a nickel back, and was forced into a starter's role that he couldn't handle. KJ can't handle the nickel, was taken highly, and rightly ought to be expected to handle a starter's role. But more than anything, I really detest the KJ pick because Kubiak told us all that KJ was more NFL ready. Then again, just take a look at the list of CBs he's drafted and/or picked up off waivers and put out there.

I can't stand Kubiak as a head coach.

Marcus
09-26-2011, 12:38 PM
When was the last time any of you heard of a team, in the middle of the regular season, trading for a player?

Any team?

Just give it up already. KJ might "not be cutting" it, but the players already on the team are what we have to go with, and we're stuck with them, so what is the point of this conversation?

silvrhand
09-26-2011, 12:41 PM
Eagles CB's didn't look to hot yesterday getting roasted by a giant's WR that noone likely had on their fantasy team..

So much for the dream team.

Marcus
09-26-2011, 12:45 PM
Eagles CB's didn't look to hot yesterday getting roasted by a giant's WR that noone likely had on their fantasy team..

So much for the dream team.

That's right. Why would you want to trade for an Eagles CB anyway?

El Tejano
09-26-2011, 12:47 PM
Speaking of Eagle's corners. I have to say I'm glad they paid all the money for the one they got and we paid money for Jonathan Joseph. JJo has got 2 INT through 3 games.

silvrhand
09-26-2011, 12:48 PM
When was the last time any of you heard of a team, in the middle of the regular season, trading for a player?

Any team?

Just give it up already. KJ might "not be cutting" it, but the players already on the team are what we have to go with, and we're stuck with them, so what is the point of this conversation?

there is no point KJ is just the lightning rod for all the people to blame the defensive woes on..

It didn't rain today in Houston.. omg fire KJ
My underwear has racing stripes cause I can't wipe my butt.. omg KJ's fault
I can't find anything else to complain about.. definitely KJ's fault.

Hervoyel
09-26-2011, 01:01 PM
there is no point KJ is just the lightning rod for all the people to blame the defensive woes on..

It didn't rain today in Houston.. omg fire KJ
My underwear has racing stripes cause I can't wipe my butt.. omg KJ's fault
I can't find anything else to complain about.. definitely KJ's fault.

Amusing. I wish it was as simple as that. It crossed my mind yesterday while watching the game that I couldn't get the number 25 off the screen. It seemed like there was a stretch during the game that he just couldn't get off camera. Even when he wasn't involved in the previous play you'd see a guy getting up and #25 would walk between the Saint who just got a first down and the camera focusing on him. I was thinking "This guy ends up looking guilty even when he's not involved sometimes. Unfortunately he's also guilty a lot of times when he is involved.

Kareem isn't getting it done. I don't think that's surprising at this stage. I still think the defense is putting things together and will do a lot of improving here in the next few weeks. If he's still the lightning rod by the end of the year whether we've won 12 games or 5 I think the Texans will draft a replacement for him.

TheGoldenGreek
09-26-2011, 01:53 PM
Is this even slightly realistic? I get the feeling that trades aren't really common in the NFL, especially once the season is underway. That's not to say I wouldn't love to see it happen.

Vinny
09-26-2011, 01:59 PM
Amusing. I wish it was as simple as that. It crossed my mind yesterday while watching the game that I couldn't get the number 25 off the screen. It seemed like there was a stretch during the game that he just couldn't get off camera. Even when he wasn't involved in the previous play you'd see a guy getting up and #25 would walk between the Saint who just got a first down and the camera focusing on him. I was thinking "This guy ends up looking guilty even when he's not involved sometimes. Unfortunately he's also guilty a lot of times when he is involved.

Kareem isn't getting it done. I don't think that's surprising at this stage. I still think the defense is putting things together and will do a lot of improving here in the next few weeks. If he's still the lightning rod by the end of the year whether we've won 12 games or 5 I think the Texans will draft a replacement for him.
no elite long speed, and no elite quickness. The Texans will just suffer until we can find a starting caliber guy to play across Joseph. The Saints abused his soft zone yesterday. He had a lot of tackles because the wr caught a lot of balls right in front of him.

Hervoyel
09-26-2011, 02:29 PM
no elite long speed, and no elite quickness. The Texans will just suffer until we can find a starting caliber guy to play across Joseph. The Saints abused his soft zone yesterday. He had a lot of tackles because the wr caught a lot of balls right in front of him.


Don't leave out the "no crafty veteran experience" part.



"A step slow and confused is no way to go through an NFL game son."

http://ecdn2.hark.com/images/000/037/385/37385/original.0

Rey
09-26-2011, 02:31 PM
When was the last time any of you heard of a team, in the middle of the regular season, trading for a player?

Any team?

Just give it up already. KJ might "not be cutting" it, but the players already on the team are what we have to go with, and we're stuck with them, so what is the point of this conversation?

The Vikings traded for Moss just last year???

I didn't have to even think hard about that.

Hervoyel
09-26-2011, 02:33 PM
The Vikings traded for Moss just last year???

I didn't have to even think hard about that.

And then didn't the Patriots go out and trade for his replacement with Seattle? They went and got Branch back right?

Rey
09-26-2011, 02:54 PM
And then didn't the Patriots go out and trade for his replacement with Seattle? They went and got Branch back right?

Yep...

And Roy Williams went from Detroit to Dallas during the season...

Braylon Edwards was also an in the season trade when he went to the jets...

Tank Tyler went to the chiefs during the season...

This is a link (http://www.sportscity.com/2007-NFL-Trade-Tracker) of trades since 2008...

I think it's mostly accurate...

eriadoc
09-26-2011, 02:55 PM
When was the last time any of you heard of a team, in the middle of the regular season, trading for a player?

Any team?

Just give it up already. KJ might "not be cutting" it, but the players already on the team are what we have to go with, and we're stuck with them, so what is the point of this conversation?

I think the point is that it's a public message board used to discuss things as important as "Babe of the Day" and as trivial as "We all hate KJ". I mean, what's the point of a message board at all? What was the point of entering into and bashing a thread that you don't care for? Just ... don't .... click ... the thread title. Easy.

Corrosion
09-26-2011, 03:01 PM
I actually thinking Faggins was better than KJ. At least with Faggins, we all knew he was taken at a later spot int he draft, was more suited to be a nickel back, and was forced into a starter's role that he couldn't handle. KJ can't handle the nickel, was taken highly, and rightly ought to be expected to handle a starter's role. But more than anything, I really detest the KJ pick because Kubiak told us all that KJ was more NFL ready. Then again, just take a look at the list of CBs he's drafted and/or picked up off waivers and put out there.

I can't stand Kubiak as a head coach.

At least Faggins could stick to his man like glue ..... even if he couldnt turn around and locate the ball. :cool:

Hervoyel
09-26-2011, 03:02 PM
I think the point is that it's a public message board used to discuss things as important as "Babe of the Day" and as trivial as "We all hate KJ". I mean, what's the point of a message board at all? What was the point of entering into and bashing a thread that you don't care for? Just ... don't .... click ... the thread title. Easy.

So what's your point?


:runaway:

silvrhand
09-26-2011, 03:12 PM
Maybe we could trade the Falcons for Dunta back lol..

/duck

twyst
09-26-2011, 03:20 PM
The only way you can justify the cost of trading for one of those CB's is if you think that with the addition of that player you become a favorite to win the super bowl this year. Otherwise you keep your draft picks and build your team through the draft like the pats and steelers have done for the last decade. The Texans are most definitely headed in the right direction, but the last thing you want to do is mortgage your future on one player and set yourself back years. It took my saints 6 or 7 years to recover from trading picks away for ricky williams, and I expect the falcons to crash and burn for giving up all they did for julio jones.

Just my 2 cents!

Corrosion
09-26-2011, 03:27 PM
The only way you can justify the cost of trading for one of those CB's is if you think that with the addition of that player you become a favorite to win the super bowl this year. Otherwise you keep your draft picks and build your team through the draft like the pats and steelers have done for the last decade. The Texans are most definitely headed in the right direction, but the last thing you want to do is mortgage your future on one player and set yourself back years. It took my saints 6 or 7 years to recover from trading picks away for ricky williams, and I expect the falcons to crash and burn for giving up all they did for julio jones.

I think you are correct that unless you think this move puts you in position to make a deep run you keep your picks ....

I get the idea that many believe the defense is one CB away from being one of the best in the NFL. This team already has one of the top offenses in the game ....

I do believe that there is a huge difference in what is being discussed in a potential trade for Samuels than what was given up my the Aints for Ricky .... that was an entire damn draft. Not a pick and a pot sweetener.

Yes , ATL probably gave up too much for that WR when they still need OL help to be able to utilize him properly.

badboy
09-26-2011, 04:17 PM
The only way you can justify the cost of trading for one of those CB's is if you think that with the addition of that player you become a favorite to win the super bowl this year. Otherwise you keep your draft picks and build your team through the draft like the pats and steelers have done for the last decade. The Texans are most definitely headed in the right direction, but the last thing you want to do is mortgage your future on one player and set yourself back years. It took my saints 6 or 7 years to recover from trading picks away for ricky williams, and I expect the falcons to crash and burn for giving up all they did for julio jones.

Just my 2 cents!I look at it a bit differently. Samuel is better than every CB we have and pretty close to Joseph or slightly better. Then is there a player in 2nd round that would make us better than Samuel? I think most fans are tired of waiting for next year. For me, we better have a very good year or I'll probably seek entertainment elsewhere.

No one is saying to do a deal like the Saints.

Edit: Just what Corrosion said.

fiasco west
09-26-2011, 05:22 PM
Speaking of Eagle's corners. I have to say I'm glad they paid all the money for the one they got and we paid money for Jonathan Joseph. JJo has got 2 INT through 3 games.

Funny how things work out. Joseph has been great for us, I'd probably still take Nnamdi though.

silvrhand
09-26-2011, 05:26 PM
Funny how things work out. Joseph has been great for us, I'd probably still take Nnamdi though.

I would not take Nnamdi over Joseph + Manning though, two above average players > Nnamdi for our roster right now.

Hervoyel
09-26-2011, 05:57 PM
I would not take Nnamdi over Joseph + Manning though, two above average players > Nnamdi for our roster right now.

Me either and I originally wanted Aso at all costs. I have to concede that we got the better deal by pursuing Joseph & Manning. Much more bang for our buck this way and our needs were great. I was wrong.

panamamyers
09-26-2011, 06:49 PM
If we do keep the pick, we are going to end up drafting another Okoye or Kareem. Trade the pick.

We need to be like the Yankees. Let someone else draft and develop guys, then we trade picks for them.

We obviously do not have a clue on how to find the talent in the first place.

EllisUnit
09-26-2011, 09:50 PM
If we do keep the pick, we are going to end up drafting another Okoye or Kareem. Trade the pick.

We need to be like the Yankees. Let someone else draft and develop guys, then we trade picks for them.

We obviously do not have a clue on how to find the talent in the first place.

yeah i will say that Capers and Casserly. Were better at finding good players in the draft IMO. They gave us Pitts, AJ, Ryans, Williams, :( Robinson, Domanick Davis, Jason Babin, Owen Daniels, Eric Winston........then you have Travis Johnson, Bennie Joppru

who we have now, gave us Cushing, Duane Brown, Connor Barwin, Glover Quin then you have ....... Jackson :vincepalm:, Okoye, Slaton, Jacoby, Fred Bennett, Antwan Molden