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thetexanator
04-24-2005, 12:51 AM
lets just hope he was right on this pick. we had the guy 90% of texan fans wanted available. he dropped like no one expected he would and by many accounts he was the best d player available. in my opinion, he had the best resume of any d prospect and all we heard leading up to the draft was they were going to take bpa and not draft for need. what happened? tj rated higher than dj?? maybe because of the system they had him rated higher, but here we go on the 3-4 that weve had 4 years to try to find the right players for and it seems to be more troublesome than the benefits we have recieved from it. DJ was a huge playmaker, we should have found a way to put him in the system. i dont care whats expected of a 3-4 lineman im pretty confident that he would have been an upgrade over wong in the middle. we have safties converting to lb's and qb's into cover guys, u cant tell me it would have been that big of a transition for an athletic guy like dj. as far as casserlys track record goes, i want to not like the guy for some of the picks he makes but hes had some hits like the buchanon deal and dd and faggins. then he comes around with terrible picks like joppru and hollings. this draft just really dropped cass down in my opinion. i bet im in the majority of cass being on most texans fans bad side. even with buchannon and whatever he does tommorrow, id give buchannon up to have dj. this is a nightmare.

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 12:55 AM
First of all, the happiness my buddies and I realized we had DJ for the taking. He was right there. I understand trading down for more value. I could deal with it.

But basically stating that Travis Johnson and a 3rd rounder next year is better than DJ makes me laugh to myself. I am still in total shock over what happened. I could deal with us getting a better player and something more with the trade down. But Dear Gawd.

Travis Johnson would have lasted at least 5 more picks, and most mocks had him barely in the first round. Reasons:

1. Career Underachiever
2. Not considered a hard worker
3. Is a "thug" and does not fit the mold of high character players.
4. Has had rape charges pressed against him
5. Got into a fight in the combine where he punched a Minnesota scout.

So what the f*ck happened here?

What I got out of this, was that the texans were trying to trade down out of the 16th pick and pick TJ later on, and were not able to get any takers. So instead they picked him at 16.

Forget the fact that Marcus Spears is a much better player, adds a pass rush, and can stop the run. And he would be a good 3-4 DE.

Or even maybe Alex Barron, who has character issues, but none half as bad as TJs.

Mark Clayton- maybe give Andre a little help out there. And he could stretch the field.

Thomas Davis- Give us a big hitting safety along with our great coverage corners. This means alligator arms for recievers over the middle. This definately would help since we play the colts twice a season.

Pollack and Erasmus James both would have been much better value picks as well.

Comments by Capers and Casserly really makes my blood boil. Comments like: "We are looking to add depth"

The Patriots and Eagles should be looking to add depth. 7-9 Teams should not be looking to add depth. They should be looking for something to help them win more games now, or in the near future. This picks does not really help this team accomplish that goal. Our 3rd round pick will help us achieve a winning season more than our 1st. Is that not ridiculous? WE WERE 7-9. WE DID NOT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. WE ARE LOOKING TO ADD DEPTH?????

I think we just blew our first draft thus far.

Sadly, it will hurt seeing him here in Houston with the chiefs. I have a bad feeling, that playing against the texans will give him even more extra motivation against the team that passed on him for an extra 3rd round pick.

dirty steve
04-24-2005, 12:59 AM
unless you were in the texans draft room, you have NO idea what they were thinking. i think TJ will be an outstanding pick for our 3-4 system, and our team. they needed youth on DL, and they got it.

DJ myopics, keep thinking we skipped up the best player for US.

QUIT CRYING.................................

Janus3
04-24-2005, 12:59 AM
lol at giving up buchannon for dj. buchannon and travis johnson >>>>>>>>>>> derrrick johnson any day of the year. i'm gonna laugh when dj is a bust next year cuz he isn't physical. it's gonna be funny watching him trying to run around the broncos, raiders and chargers o line then get pancaked.

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 01:01 AM
lol at giving up buchannon for dj. buchannon and travis johnson >>>>>>>>>>> derrrick johnson any day of the year. i'm gonna laugh when dj is a bust next year cuz he isn't physical. it's gonna be funny watching him trying to run around the broncos, raiders and chargers o line then get pancaked.

They said the same thing about Jonathan Vilma... who was your rookie of the year last year. Or maybe Derrick brooks, because he cant take on blocks. OR maybe even Ray Lewis, who was late first round because he couldnt take on any blocks.

Janus3
04-24-2005, 01:05 AM
They said the same thing about Jonathan Vilma... who was your rookie of the year last year. Or maybe Derrick brooks, because he cant take on blocks. OR maybe even Ray Lewis, who was late first round because he couldnt take on any blocks.

coincidence vilma and ray lewis are from miami and brooks from FSU? big 12 is a soft confernece with weak teams.

canadiantexan
04-24-2005, 01:13 AM
Maybe people should wait to see how the pick (Travis) plays out before they ***** and moan about firing Cass or say they dont like the pick. Give it a chance I remember Eagles fans booing McNabb and that's worked out pretty well for them.

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 01:23 AM
coincidence vilma and ray lewis are from miami and brooks from FSU? big 12 is a soft confernece with weak teams.

That may have been the dumbest comment I have ever read. You mustve been in the draft room with casserly.

TexanBacker93
04-24-2005, 01:31 AM
Travis Johnson would have gone to the Bengals at 17 if the Texans hadn't taken him. The only spot that DJ would really fit in a 3-4 is the same spot they signed Morlon Greenwood to play. There are as many concerns from teams about DJ as there were about Travis Johnson.

It's absurd to think Casserly and the Texans are going to base their jobs on the players the fans want chosen. They draft the guy that they feel will help the Texans win. They understand that many fans are fickle when it comes to local players, but that's not the way to run a successful team. Do you think Belicheck worries that the fans think they should take some UMass player with their first pick? I seriously doubt anyone is going to cancel their tickets or stop being a fan because they made a personnel decision like this. If they do, there will be 10 people ready to take those seats.

Let's give the players an opportunity to show what they have to offer. 8 months from now everyone could be talking about how great this pick is. I'm sure some of the same people saying Casserly should be strung up will be the first ones to claim to have loved this pick if it turns out well.

dirty steve
04-24-2005, 01:41 AM
Right on. If you hate this pick, that's fine, just don't come back and say it is outstanding after TJ is

BBBBBBBB
AAAAAAA
DDDDDDD
AAAAAAA
RRRRRRRR
SSSSSSS
EEEEEEEE

after 2005 is over.

TexansCanes
04-24-2005, 01:42 AM
we had the guy 90% of texan fans wanted available

that doesn't make it the right pick, i for one didn't think that he was the bar-none the best player for OUR team. most people have not seen travis play, so right now we can't say that it was a bad pick. reading about him makes me a little more excited, he was a freshman all-american before he had a minor neck injury. he was never able to get back into the starting line up because of who he was behind and his shoulder injury. people bring up his shoulder injury but he had his best season afterward. his rape charges were dropped and he plays with a mean streak, which is a plus on the d-line as long as he doesn't let it get out of control.

Grid
04-24-2005, 01:45 AM
Anyone who says that one draft prospect is better and has a brighter future.. ON DRAFT DAY... honestly.. think about it.

There have been so many "sure things" that were total busts.. and so many "sure busts" that are going into, or already in, the hall of fame.

it is a pointless and stupid arguement. Come back in 4 years.

TexansCanes
04-24-2005, 01:45 AM
They said the same thing about Jonathan Vilma... who was your rookie of the year last year. Or maybe Derrick brooks, because he cant take on blocks. OR maybe even Ray Lewis, who was late first round because he couldnt take on any blocks.

the knock on vilma was that he wasn't that big because he was a shade above six feet and about 233 lbs. i don't think i ever heard that he wasn't physical, did you see the 2002 rose bowl?

Janus3
04-24-2005, 02:46 AM
That may have been the dumbest comment I have ever read. You mustve been in the draft room with casserly.

that coming from someone with a UT player as an icon doesn't really hold any validity.

Master Po
04-24-2005, 02:55 AM
Travis Johnson would have gone to the Bengals at 17 if the Texans hadn't taken him. The only spot that DJ would really fit in a 3-4 is the same spot they signed Morlon Greenwood to play. There are as many concerns from teams about DJ as there were about Travis Johnson.

It's absurd to think Casserly and the Texans are going to base their jobs on the players the fans want chosen. They draft the guy that they feel will help the Texans win. They understand that many fans are fickle when it comes to local players, but that's not the way to run a successful team. Do you think Belicheck worries that the fans think they should take some UMass player with their first pick? I seriously doubt anyone is going to cancel their tickets or stop being a fan because they made a personnel decision like this. If they do, there will be 10 people ready to take those seats.

Let's give the players an opportunity to show what they have to offer. 8 months from now everyone could be talking about how great this pick is. I'm sure some of the same people saying Casserly should be strung up will be the first ones to claim to have loved this pick if it turns out well.

I posted similar comments in another thread. These comments are SPOT ON. Marvin Lewis was all over TJ. You UT homers need to get a grip. UnBEleivable! Amazing how SOOOOO many teams passed on a reckless, poor wrap up tackler like Derrick Friggin Johnson. They ALL must be nuts!!

LoNghoRn-TeXaN
04-24-2005, 02:57 AM
I'm the biggest Longhorn fan in the world. In the past five years, I have been to every single home and away games. I have been to every bowl games, and thats why I love DJ and Benson. But I too had my concerns of him fitting into our 3-4 defense. Lets think about this with an open mind: Do you really think that if Casserly and Capers knew that DJ would become an all-time pro LB for atleast the next decade, which most of DJ supporters over here seem to think, would they pass on him for a mere third rounder. COME ON! They would have been all over him before the clock ran down to 14:00. They are the ones being paid the big money by Mr. McNair and certainly they are a thousand times better than us in evaluating talent and making decisions in the best interest of this franchise. Lets not act like that we know a lot more than them and that we deserve the money they're being paid for doing their job.

Master Po
04-24-2005, 03:00 AM
And another thing...you people that are using a guy's last BOWL GAME as an end-all showcase of what a player can do need to quit worrying about football and start diagnosing the USA's chances of soon competing in Table Tennis in the Olympics. (Is there a PUKE emoticon on this board?)

Janus3
04-24-2005, 03:35 AM
I'm the biggest Longhorn fan in the world. In the past five years, I have been to every single home and away games. I have been to every bowl games, and thats why I love DJ and Benson. But I too had my concerns of him fitting into our 3-4 defense. Lets think about this with an open mind: Do you really think that if Casserly and Capers knew that DJ would become an all-time pro LB for atleast the next decade, which most of DJ supporters over here seem to think, would they pass on him for a mere third rounder. COME ON! They would have been all over him before the clock ran down to 14:00. They are the ones being paid the big money by Mr. McNair and certainly they are a thousand times better than us in evaluating talent and making decisions in the best interest of this franchise. Lets not act like that we know a lot more than them and that we deserve the money they're being paid for doing their job.

great to hear the POV of someone a longhorn fan who looks at the big picture with an unbiased opinion. awesome insight, thanks.

Erratic Assassin
04-24-2005, 04:27 AM
maybe because of the system they had him rated higher, but here we go on the 3-4 that weve had 4 years to try to find the right players for and it seems to be more troublesome than the benefits we have recieved from it.

You may have a point there. It's frustrating when many of the best defensive prospects don't seem to fit our system every year.

We pass on blue-chip prospects like Julius Peppers & John Henderson because they don't fit and end up gambling on undersized linemen like Babin that we will try to convert to linebacker.

It's hard for me to get excited about Babin, but hopefully he will change my mind one day.

hound
04-24-2005, 05:16 AM
Look on the bright side of this. If these guys don't work out the Texans will have a new GM and new coaches within two years.

And if they do work out... then they worked out.

Most experts had him ranked as the number one DT. No one can know today know if TJ will work out or not...

But I can say I don't like his off the field track record of problems and I wouldn't have taken him simply for that.

I also know that I saw a stat that with TJ's pick that was 8 defensive players taken in the last 10 draft picks. And yet going 80% defense... our defense sort of sucks. Either the players or the coaching has been bad.

I also know that TJ is a Texan now and we should always welcome new Texans.

rittenhouserobz
04-24-2005, 06:51 AM
I think TJ will be a solid pick. I would say medium risk for a high reward. Not to mention we NEED another "animal" on the DL.

texman8
04-24-2005, 07:11 AM
Julius Peppers? Think we pick Carr that year. Henderson? Think we got Andre. Yeah, both are great defensive players. Dre already a great player; Carr ,getting better( will be even better once he stops running for his life!)....Yeah,I like DJohnson but I guess the Browns, Cowgirls, Cards and even the Saints didn't see he could fit their defense. From most mocks, T Johnson went in high 10's where he was projected. So it was btw him and Spears,guess they liked him better. TJ,Buchanon,Morency....decent draft....Maybe, some of ya will let your emotions settle down and wait till training camp and games to see how they perform. As for the naysayers, nothing will ever appease you. Hoping we will get some OL,WR and LB depth on 2nd day.

Hervoyel
04-24-2005, 08:21 AM
unless you were in the texans draft room, you have NO idea what they were thinking.

Well, you're correct here. I admit that I (along with a great many other fans in here) have no idea what they were thinking. None whatsoever.

beerlover
04-24-2005, 08:30 AM
at some point they (Texans management) will need to pack the house with not just a winning product but an exciting product. the last home game I went to last year against the Colts was really a bummer & trust me there are other things to do on a beautiful Sunday like that one. my point being DJ would help fill the seats and as buisnessmen this should account for something in their war room. the difference between TJ & DJ may be only one pick & the difference on the field may be negligible but in the stands, the bull pen, the tailgating........HUGE :hmmm:

cadahnic
04-24-2005, 08:32 AM
I really hate the longhorns I mean I despise those cow ****ing *******s, but DJ is going to be a great player in the mold of D. Brooks or DJ Williams. Vilma was never talked about as running around blocks it was DJ Williams who the talked about. I think the TJ pick is reasonable, not my favorite, but I will pass judgement throughout the year. Everyone that is bitching about DJ should just calm down and get your "I told you so" pills ready. TJ fits our mold as a 3-4 DE and Morency is our second running back. Hey Cass took a chance that he would be able to pick up an extra pick and still get DJ it just did not work out so chill out people lets see what this year has to offer, maybe TJ is the next Richard Seymour or something.

beerlover
04-24-2005, 08:44 AM
Hey Cass took a chance that he would be able to pick up an extra pick and still get DJ it just did not work out so chill out people lets see what this year has to offer, maybe TJ is the next Richard Seymour or something.

I keep hearing people say this but does not this statement reflect a different spin, maybe its the fact that both last names are Johnson :confused:

GM Charley Casserly

"We opened the day with the 13th pick in the first round. Our feelings were that there would be a group of players available at pick number 13 that we liked. That was the case, so we decided to trade back. We would have taken Travis Johnson at the 13th pick, but New Orleans offered us a chance to move back with an extra pick for next years draft, a third round pick, and we felt comfortable that Johnson would still be available three picks later. When we arrived at the 16th pick, additional trade offers were available to us, but the offers were picks for next year or post third round. We felt if we moved back again the percentages were against us to get Johnson. He is the player we targeted for this area in the draft, so we decided to go ahead and pull the trigger at that point. Come to find out after the pick, another team had him on the board and if we would have moved back, we would not have gotten him."

cadahnic
04-24-2005, 08:51 AM
I think he put the perfect spin on the pick. I like the way Cass puts spins on things. The way he put the spin on the Babin trade or the pick of Hollings. Like I said TJ, DJ, T. Davis, and Spears, were on our board and we knew we could get one of them and pick up a pick in the process. Take the shot and if we lost the top two on our board we get a good consolation prize in TJ. I can almost guarantee that if DJ would have fell to 16 and we would not have picked him, Cinci would have.

Marcus
04-24-2005, 08:53 AM
at some point they (Texans management) will need to pack the house with not just a winning product but an exciting product. the last home game I went to last year against the Colts was really a bummer & trust me there are other things to do on a beautiful Sunday like that one. my point being DJ would help fill the seats and as buisnessmen this should account for something in their war room. the difference between TJ & DJ may be only one pick & the difference on the field may be negligible but in the stands, the bull pen, the tailgating........HUGE :hmmm:

That is absolutely the most rediculous statement I've read in awhile. I actually did laugh out loud when I read that.

This draft is NOT some fricken popularity contest. Bum Phillips once said if you start making football decisions based upon what the fans want, then very soon you be a fan yourself. I, for one am happy that we have a GM who has the guts to make an unpopular choice, even though that choice is the most sound smart move for the football team.

Business decision? Oh my GAWD!

cadahnic
04-24-2005, 09:01 AM
Marcus it would have been a good business decision watch how many D. Johnson jerseys get sold in K.C. But you are right that it is not about business decisions for our franchise. We had an opportunity to add youth to the line and we did. Hopefully he will be a great pick and refute what Bowden said about him taking plays off to much. Hey Cass makes the picks and until I own my own team I will see what happens during the season.

Hervoyel
04-24-2005, 09:11 AM
Wins put people in the seats faster than anything else.

rittenhouserobz
04-24-2005, 09:22 AM
Wins put people in the seats faster than anything else.

Not to mention. When a team is winning the draft is not questioned or given a second thought. The fact is we will have to wait to see what impact this draft will have on the team. I trust CC.

btw dj was mentioned as a possible bust in this draft at that position. I think it was on NFL network or ESPN.

gwallaia
04-24-2005, 09:47 AM
my point being DJ would help fill the seats and as buisnessmen this should account for something in their war room.

Despite passing on DJ, I bet Reliant Stadium will be filled up as usual.
I don't anticipate UT fans boycotting Texan games because of the Texans taking TJ instead of DJ.

threetoedpete
04-24-2005, 10:07 AM
Look on the bright side of this. If these guys don't work out the Texans will have a new GM and new coaches within two years.

And if they do work out... then they worked out.

Most experts had him ranked as the number one DT. No one can know today know if TJ will work out or not...

But I can say I don't like his off the field track record of problems and I wouldn't have taken him simply for that.

I also know that I saw a stat that with TJ's pick that was 8 defensive players taken in the last 10 draft picks. And yet going 80% defense... our defense sort of sucks. Either the players or the coaching has been bad.

I also know that TJ is a Texan now and we should always welcome new Texans.

Well this is the last thing I hope that happens. Switching coaches & staff's because things ain't going your way is the surest road to mediocraty. Just ask the Browns, Raiders, ect.
After the the instant gratifacation is done, you're still left with a mess to clean up. We're in a very good position. We've got a great QB, an o-line with a year togehter under their belt, a true back up for DD, young legs in the devensive backfeild and defensive line. It could be a lot worse.

threetoedpete
04-24-2005, 10:15 AM
Well, you're correct here. I admit that I (along with a great many other fans in here) have no idea what they were thinking. None whatsoever.

I do. :) They had DJ, Davis Thomas, and the top rted DT lumped toghether @ 13. N.O. Called and offered the 16 and a 3rd to move down . CC took it. Bang, Bang. Da gone. :woot

And Beer lover they can laugh at me too. Just make sure all you Texas haters snatch up all the singles so I won't get my Sunday Ticket Blacked out. DJ's gonna fill out to about 252 and run like the wind. You can get a player stronger to fix the point of attack problem. But they ain't got a pill for speed yet. You can lock it. DJ will be a pro bowl LB in this league for a very long time. Just darn bad luck.

And Bum Phillips is the last guy you should be Quoting about managing a frachise. After the party was over, there were a couple of 1-14 seasons in there. I love bum, but the Munchack and Mathews era for the Oilers began as a direct result of Bum Phillips trading away the future. Was the Knocking on the door worth it, of course. But if you trade away the future there's going to be a price to be paid. I'm OK with missing DJ. The extra third was worth the chance. But what I know for sure if Travis is gonna sign a contract and then sit on his fat rear end, he will never be good enough to carry DJ's, or Thomas Davis' jock. He ain't Curly Culp, yet. But he has a chance to be.

Erratic Assassin
04-24-2005, 10:39 AM
Julius Peppers? Think we pick Carr that year. Henderson? Think we got Andre.

Not my point.

Besides, Henderson was picked the year we picked Carr, not the year we picked Andre.

My point is that many of the top defensive prospects don't fit our 3-4 scheme. Peppers and Henderson are merely examples. I didn't say that we should have picked Peppers over Carr.

Besides I would have picked Bryant McKinney over Carr. I believe you need to build your offensive line before you select your QB. I think Carr might even back me up on that one, but that's completely off topic.

BattleRedGuy
04-24-2005, 11:49 AM
Marcus it would have been a good business decision watch how many D. Johnson jerseys get sold in K.C. But you are right that it is not about business decisions for our franchise. We had an opportunity to add youth to the line and we did. Hopefully he will be a great pick and refute what Bowden said about him taking plays off to much. Hey Cass makes the picks and until I own my own team I will see what happens during the season.

The business decision in Houston is nobody would have bought a DJ Texans jersey but would have worn the orange "11" jerseys.

Huge
04-24-2005, 12:11 PM
coincidence vilma and ray lewis are from miami and brooks from FSU? big 12 is a soft confernece with weak teams.

You're comparing Miami and FSU to the Big12 conference as a whole? How stupid is that? Let me clue you in, the Big East and ACC are weak conferences (or were when Vilma, Lewis and Brooks played).

If you're only going to go by single teams (as you did with Miami and FSU), then why not single out Texas from the Big 12? Wouldn't that make more sense? And where did Texas finish in the polls compared to Miami and FSU this year?

I agree with you from the standpoint that DJ wasn't the best player for the pick. But the logic you used makes no sense whatsoever.

Honoring Earl 34
04-24-2005, 12:22 PM
:shocked I admit on the surface it looks like a no brainer . A linebacker is only as good as his DL . The Texans needed to draft a DL more than a LB .
The Astros play the popularity game and are stuck with 2 huge contracts and no takers . I applaud the Texans for going for what they believe is right and not trying to be popular . :howdy:

ledzeppelin229
04-24-2005, 12:41 PM
The only thing funnier than us passing on DJ would be if we had drafted him and he truly didn't fit the system and didn't live up to his potential.

Well, it wouldn't really be that funny but I would like to see it in an alternate reality sometime.

beerlover
04-24-2005, 01:08 PM
That is absolutely the most rediculous statement I've read in awhile. I actually did laugh out loud when I read that.

This draft is NOT some fricken popularity contest. Bum Phillips once said if you start making football decisions based upon what the fans want, then very soon you be a fan yourself. I, for one am happy that we have a GM who has the guts to make an unpopular choice, even though that choice is the most sound smart move for the football team.

Business decision? Oh my GAWD!

first off, DJ was the BPA.

second, if they really wanted him this was not the time to get cute.

third, if he was from Texas or not he was the most exciting defensive player to watch on Saturdays & I see no reason why he could not translate his game to Sundays.

fourth winning is not everything to me. having good people with outstanding character like Jamie Sharper, Aaron Glenn & Gary Walker despite adversity who still play hard is just important than a silly stupid win that really in the end doesn't mean a damn thing as far as lifes important conquests.

fifth, other than Dunta Robinson on defense there was no redeeming aspect to the defensive effort last year against the Colts, if the Texans had DJ at least in my opinion another playmaker would have helped and the stadium would not have been half empty before the game ended.

sixth, strikes me more and more like big buisness that lost touch with its own marketplace. their are different schools of thought on how to turn a buck, owning a football team, winning, allowing access to the facitlites and promoting fundraisers supporting the needy are all important facets. selecting the BPA that reflects the passion of its people does not strike me as being irrevlent or unrealistic, it strikes me as arrogant. now thats a bad buisness practice to engage in. I'm out :mad:

Davis37
04-24-2005, 01:15 PM
I didnt really like the TJ pick... We need depth and youth on DL, but that could have been addressed in later rounds. DJ could be a HUGE playmaker in a year or 2, but the pick has been made and cant be helped... I do believe that he redemed himself in the 4th by picking Mathis! :thumbup This guy is gonna be a major burner (4.28 40 time! Moss runs 4.25). When he beats out Bradford for the #2 spot (sometime this season) its really gonna open up our offense! The Colts 2 new CB's wont be able to cover AJ AND Mathis!!! :woot

smb114
04-24-2005, 01:27 PM
I'm the biggest Longhorn fan in the world. In the past five years, I have been to every single home and away games. I have been to every bowl games, and thats why I love DJ and Benson. But I too had my concerns of him fitting into our 3-4 defense. Lets think about this with an open mind: Do you really think that if Casserly and Capers knew that DJ would become an all-time pro LB for atleast the next decade, which most of DJ supporters over here seem to think, would they pass on him for a mere third rounder. COME ON! They would have been all over him before the clock ran down to 14:00. They are the ones being paid the big money by Mr. McNair and certainly they are a thousand times better than us in evaluating talent and making decisions in the best interest of this franchise. Lets not act like that we know a lot more than them and that we deserve the money they're being paid for doing their job.
thank you! as soon as i saw your name i thought here we go again, but you gave a great opinion that i agree with. he was incredible in college and will be a good fit in a 4-3 because he wont have to beat as many blockers, but in a 3-4 he doesnt fit. i see dj being a lot like derrick brooks is in tampa bay, where he forces a lot of turnovers. instead of questioning this pick, i say we commend casserly on the morency pick, one of the best ive seen in this draft so far. and anyone who says that people thought vilma and ray lewis werent physical coming out of college knows absolutely nothing about football. vilma was undersized but was still picked high because he WAS physical. lewis wasnt picked high in the first round because people didnt understand the fire and passion he has on the field, instead evaluating him by combine times and things such as that. they also didnt know how great of a work ethic he would have once he came into the league.

smb114
04-24-2005, 01:33 PM
first off, DJ was the BPA.

second, if they really wanted him this was not the time to get cute.

third, if he was from Texas or not he was the most exciting defensive player to watch on Saturdays & I see no reason why he could not translate his game to Sundays.

fourth winning is not everything to me. having good people with outstanding character like Jamie Sharper, Aaron Glenn & Gary Walker despite adversity who still play hard is just important than a silly stupid win that really in the end doesn't mean a damn thing as far as lifes important conquests.

fifth, other than Dunta Robinson on defense there was no redeeming aspect to the defensive effort last year against the Colts, if the Texans had DJ at least in my opinion another playmaker would have helped and the stadium would not have been half empty before the game ended.

sixth, strikes me more and more like big buisness that lost touch with its own marketplace. their are different schools of thought on how to turn a buck, owning a football team, winning, allowing access to the facitlites and promoting fundraisers supporting the needy are all important facets. selecting the BPA that reflects the passion of its people does not strike me as being irrevlent or unrealistic, it strikes me as arrogant. now thats a bad buisness practice to engage in. I'm out :mad:
the best way to turn a buck is to win. the best way to please your fans? also to win. what better way to showcase your fans passion than to win? if travis johnson helps us win the super bowl in a few years, will you still be mad that derrick johnson wasnt picked because he represents the passion of the fans? as for his background, that is somewhat of a concern, and it is definitely a viable question mark because he made mistakes, but i am confident that the strong presence of veterans on the texans will turn him the right way. the texans have had very few off the field issues, and i think it is due to a strong core of veterans who set the young players straight. i hope this rubs off on not only johnson but buchanon too.

mdogg
04-24-2005, 01:47 PM
#1 pick-Travis Johnson- I think he is over rated. The reasons why. #1 lack of playing time and experience. #2 Has had problems off the field. #3 All the scouts say he is more of a 4-3 d-lineman than 3-4. #3 pick-Vernard Morency-Don't get me wrong i like this dude as a player. But he is the same type of back as Domanick Davis,but with not as good of hands and fumbles to much. #4 pick-Jerome Mathis-I think this is the best pick so far. But will he be just like Corey Bradford but a headcase? WE WILL HOW THIS DRAFT WORKS OUT LATER DOWN THE LINE. But so far I don't like it.

TexanWolverine
04-24-2005, 01:49 PM
Wow...You are making up stuff about these players throughout that entire post.

Hoss
04-24-2005, 01:51 PM
heh... :heh:

Marcus
04-24-2005, 01:59 PM
[QUOTE=beerlover]first off, DJ was the BPA.

In your eyes maybe, but not in Capers or Casserly's eyes. I'll defer to their judgement, not yours.

second, if they really wanted him this was not the time to get cute.

If they wanted him, they wouldn't have gotten cute, they would have picked him with the 13th. I know it would be easier for you to swallow if you thought that they wanted him, but "gambled and lost". But you are going to have to swallow hard and accept the fact that they didn't want your boy, so get over it!

third, if he was from Texas or not he was the most exciting defensive player to watch on Saturdays & I see no reason why he could not translate his game to Sundays.

It's been said from day one that DJ would be best suited to play the weakside of a 4-3. They saw a more impending need to to shore up the defensive line, not take a 4-3 linebacker and convert him to the 3-4 scheme. You do that with lower round picks.

fourth winning is not everything to me. having good people with outstanding character like Jamie Sharper, Aaron Glenn & Gary Walker despite adversity who still play hard is just important than a silly stupid win that really in the end doesn't mean a damn thing as far as lifes important conquests.

I don't know how I could even respond to that, except to say that I'm glad that Casserly and Capers want to win enough to try to improve the football team, and glad they don't have your attitude about it. I'm really surprised you actually take the time away from "life's more important conquests" to bother watching football at all. :thumbdown

fifth, other than Dunta Robinson on defense there was no redeeming aspect to the defensive effort last year against the Colts, if the Texans had DJ at least in my opinion another playmaker would have helped and the stadium would not have been half empty before the game ended.

If DJ was as good as you think he was, he would have been gone way before the 13th pick. You didn't stop to wonder why he feel that far?

sixth, strikes me more and more like big buisness that lost touch with its own marketplace. their are different schools of thought on how to turn a buck, owning a football team, winning, allowing access to the facitlites and promoting fundraisers supporting the needy are all important facets. selecting the BPA that reflects the passion of its people does not strike me as being irrevlent or unrealistic, it strikes me as arrogant. now thats a bad buisness practice to engage in. I'm out :mad:

Well, again, I'm sorry you feel this should be a popularity contest. If you lived up in the Northeast around the Boston area, you probably wouldn't be happy with how they run the New England Patriots either. :rolleyes:

DRIFTAWAY
04-24-2005, 02:01 PM
Let me tell all of you something, We wanted DJ, we being the fans not the coaching staff. Im sure they know what will work out for this team at the end, that is why they are the coaching staff and we are the fans. That is why we pay to watch, and they get payed to do. And before we start bashing, can we not even wait to see how DJ and TJ play out? Can we not even wait and see who we end up getting with that 3rd round pick next year? What if we come away with the next Warren Sapp or the next Randy Moss in that 3rd round? I will say i was very very upset at passing DJ, but there has to be reasons. So before you start your whining, just stop and wait to see how it all plays out, CC and Dom have been doing this for years, so please just stop and let it all happen first.

RocKetHtown
04-24-2005, 02:48 PM
They need a TE so what do they do let Bo go to Tenn ...humm maybe The Texans dont like Longhorns..O well Im starting to not like The Houston Texans :thumbdown

RocKetHtown
04-24-2005, 02:51 PM
Keep deleting me I want be coming back to see any games :wacko:

RocKetHtown
04-24-2005, 02:57 PM
Just wait till monday the fallout is coming Longhorns are not happy..I cant wait to here sr610...Hope they call all day...They need to cut them aggie's to make this work :thumbup Hook em :heh:

dalemurphy
04-24-2005, 02:58 PM
They need a TE so what do they do let Bo go to Tenn ...humm maybe The Texans dont like Longhorns..O well Im starting to not like The Houston Texans :thumbdown

Thank you. You've pretty much summed up the way all the complaining, ignorant fans on this board think and have responded when they didn't get their way in the first round yesterday.

Do all of us a favor, and don't waste a seat at Reliant with you presence. I'd rather have either a knowledgable fan there or a loyal one- obviously you are neither.

RocKetHtown
04-24-2005, 02:58 PM
Well that is your JOB then :woot

RocKetHtown
04-24-2005, 03:02 PM
Thank you. You've pretty much summed up the way all the complaining, ignorant fans on this board think and have responded when they didn't get their way in the first round yesterday.

Do all of us a favor, and don't waste a seat at Reliant with you presence. I'd rather have either a knowledgable fan there or a loyal one- obviously you are neither.
ignorant fans? Hum not sure but I think he hurt my feelings

Errant Hothy
04-24-2005, 03:03 PM
They need a TE so what do they do let Bo go to Tenn ...humm maybe The Texans dont like Longhorns..O well Im starting to not like The Houston Texans :thumbdown

You wanted Bo Scaife, do you watch any football besides UT?

Scaife has a) injury concers b)size concers and finally c) issues if he will be able to block at the next level.

You are the HOUSTON TEXANS of the NFL, not UT-Houston campus. UT players are overrated, don't believe me look at how many players from OU have been selected this weekend versuses the three from UT. Should enlighten a few.

Texas_Thrill
04-24-2005, 03:04 PM
Truth be told all this fussing over DJ not being a 3-4 LB well ummmm HELLO what do you call TJ....he played in the 4-3. I'm tired of hearing about schemes. FOOTBALL PLAYERS PLAY. That's all it should be. If you can't play and u need a scheme to help u out go in the 6th round.

I think casserly BLEW it big time. A 3rd rounder NEXT year???? I mean how cheap. I think he thought thomas davis was going to fall to us at 16. He can say what he wants but TJ was not his pick....talking about for depth. I must have missed something but last I checked we are not so well off we can draft for DEPTH.

mdogg
04-24-2005, 03:05 PM
Was not the answer. But please someone tell me. what do we do at inside linebacker? We got rid of are two starters from last season. Sign Greenwood which i like. But i do not like Wong at the other inside position.

Texas_Thrill
04-24-2005, 03:10 PM
I wonder the same thing. I mean i dont see why not hang on to sharper one more year if you don't have anyone to bring in place of him. INstead of drafting a ILB in the 3rd we wasted it on Morrency????

Marcus
04-24-2005, 03:21 PM
This is what I love about this message board around draft time. All these internet GMs thinking they know more how to run a football team than the real GM.

"If you don't draft the guy I'm in love with, then you suck"!

It's comical, to say the least. :popcorn:

BattleRedGuy
04-24-2005, 03:23 PM
Just wait till monday the fallout is coming Longhorns are not happy..I cant wait to here sr610...Hope they call all day...They need to cut them aggie's to make this work :thumbup Hook em :heh:

The only people listening to 610 anymore are Longhorns and Rocketfans anyway. Outside of the time with John McClain tomorrow, they are going to talk about the Rockets. Big deal.

Why should the team focus on drafting Longhorns. When was the last time a Texas-ex walked off the field with a Super Bowl ring?

RocKetHtown
04-24-2005, 03:23 PM
You Know more then we do then?

WildBlackBear32
04-24-2005, 03:23 PM
This is what I love about this message board around draft time. All these internet GMs thinking they know more how to run a football team than the real GM.

"If you don't draft the guy I'm in love with, then you suck"!

It's comical, to say the least. :popcorn:

No, No, thats not it. There's a difference between being mad about the team not taking a player and taking a player we absolutely dont need and makes no sense. I'm not gonna rip the TJ pick anymore, however the Morency pick was ****ing terrible.

punisher89
04-24-2005, 03:26 PM
Thank you. You've pretty much summed up the way all the complaining, ignorant fans on this board think and have responded when they didn't get their way in the first round yesterday.

Do all of us a favor, and don't waste a seat at Reliant with you presence. I'd rather have either a knowledgable fan there or a loyal one- obviously you are neither.
undefined

The texans lost a good linebacker....They need another one...They pass up one of the number one linebackers in the country..what are they thinking..Derrick Johnson hes the the next Laurence Taylor..how could you give up a star in the making for a cornerback who has maybe 3 good years left in his football career

bigtex77
04-24-2005, 03:28 PM
DJ is not fit for a 3-4, what part of that do you not understand????

punisher89
04-24-2005, 03:29 PM
The only people listening to 610 anymore are Longhorns and Rocketfans anyway. Outside of the time with John McClain tomorrow, they are going to talk about the Rockets. Big deal.

Why should the team focus on drafting Longhorns. When was the last time a Texas-ex walked off the field with a Super Bowl ring?

rings dont mean a thing...tracy mcgrady is one of the best players..he doesnt have a ring yet..peyton manning doesnt have a ring..randy moss doesnt have one..tim brown doesnt..want to name some more just say...PLEASE and i will get back to you

punisher89
04-24-2005, 03:31 PM
DJ is not fit for a 3-4, what part of that do you not understand????

the texans arent fit for a 3-4... a linebacker is a linebacker.. they are play makers..put DJ on the field and watch him work

mdogg
04-24-2005, 03:33 PM
maybe not fitting the 3-4. But in that case we will see if Travis Johnson does.

RocKetHtown
04-24-2005, 03:38 PM
sorry admin But i have to say this 3-4 D sucks and 4-3 rules..Its ok only 1 more year we will have to put up with this 3-4 d junk :hmmm:

bigtex77
04-24-2005, 03:38 PM
One of the reasons DJ fell is because alot of the experts felt that he was not physical enough to take on blocks from 330 lpound lineman. I am a DJ fan but that is the last thing you need in a 3-4.

punisher89
04-24-2005, 03:38 PM
Thank you. You've pretty much summed up the way all the complaining, ignorant fans on this board think and have responded when they didn't get their way in the first round yesterday.

Do all of us a favor, and don't waste a seat at Reliant with you presence. I'd rather have either a knowledgable fan there or a loyal one- obviously you are neither.

so..true texans fans..everybody complains.do you not do it..do u not get on the site and complain about how texans loose games they should win..do you not complain about what players they pick..ask yourself if you are true..i didnt think so..we just say what we think is what they should do..we speak the truth.. DJ is a player and he is darn good..im sorry you dont like oklahoma but name a better linebacker than him.

bigtex77
04-24-2005, 03:39 PM
If the 3-4 sucks why are so many teams going to it? Tell New England it sucks.

punisher89
04-24-2005, 03:42 PM
if the texans would have ran the 4-3 D with the talent they had last year they would have went to the playoffs...you say DJ isnt ready for it..What College player is...DJ is the best of the best...They gave David Carr a chance..he isnt half bad.. give DJ a chance

bigtex77
04-24-2005, 03:43 PM
Punisher, I'm not saying DJ isn't a great player, he was the best defensive player available, I just don't think he was right for the Texans. I'm also not saying the TJ was, that remains to be seen.

Davis37
04-24-2005, 03:44 PM
1st. People are saying DJ isnt suited for 3-4 defense... If he was OLB in 3-4 yes, but ILB no... In 3-4 defense the 3 DL are supposed to tie up the line, and the MAC LB (Greenwood) is supposed to take on the lead blocker. Johnson would be the clean up LB. Greenwood would take on the blocks to let DJ run free and make the tackle... So, DJ's inability to take on blocks would be minimized in a 3-4 defense.

2nd. Im not high on the TJ pick, but im willing to live with it. He has character issues, but we do need depth and youth on the DL.

3rd. I dont really understand taking RB in 3rd round. I dont really know much about this guy but I dont think we need another back at least not for a 3rd round pick. Im gonna find out more about him after I post this.

4th. Even though I didnt really like the 1st 2 picks all that much, I think CC redemed himself with Mathis in the 4th. This guy is gonna be a gamebreaker once he improves his hands. I cant wait to see this guy sitting across the field from AJ. He will stretch the defense for AJ with that 4.28 40 speed! :thumbup For those of you that dont know, Randy Moss ran a 4.25.

I cant wait for some1 to tell me that I dont know anything about football. That will make me laugh... Im very smart when it comes to football, and Im actually working to become a football coach (Def. Cord.). What is it with CC coming through in the 4th round? (DD, Earl Glen, Mathis) I think we should start trading all of our 2nd and 3rd round picks for 4th round picks! :rofl: Hopefully TJ and PB play up to their potential and dont get in trouble! This year we better get some pressure on the qb or our season is a bust already! GO TEXANS!!!

mdogg
04-24-2005, 03:46 PM
I just think we have the wrong front personal for it. Besides Payne and Smith and maybe Peek (still not known). Not a nuff speed at linebacker. I mean look at the def stats for the past three years. numbers don't lie.

bigtex77
04-24-2005, 03:49 PM
From what I am hearing we should be faster at LB, Greenwood is supposed to have good speed and I think Wong is faster than Foreman of Sharper. If I am wrong, let me know.

punisher89
04-24-2005, 03:51 PM
If the 3-4 sucks why are so many teams going to it? Tell New England it sucks.

new england has alot more athletes and players than do alot of teams cough texans cough lets see how the teams that are switching to a 3-4 perform this year buddy boy

mdogg
04-24-2005, 03:52 PM
I like Greenwood but he played in a 4-3 and is still kind of unknown. last year was his first full year as a starter.

bigtex77
04-24-2005, 03:53 PM
You are right, but NE didn't do it overnight, the defense can be successful, you just have to have the right players. I would like to think thats what the Texans are working towards.

mdogg
04-24-2005, 03:56 PM
But they have had 4 years too do this. I'am wrong for saying this year they better produce.

RocKetHtown
04-24-2005, 03:57 PM
If the 3-4 sucks why are so many teams going to it? Tell New England it sucks.well tbo I am not a fan of the cowboys but they have won a hell of a lot of super bowls runing a 4-3..More then New England..But New England has the players to use it the Texans do not..and TJ played in a 4-3 at fsu so maybe they should have picked a player that played in a 3-4 not a 4-3 :wacko:

mdogg
04-24-2005, 03:58 PM
I Think Soon!

bigtex77
04-24-2005, 03:58 PM
Please don't get me wrong, if they don't at least sniff the playoffs this year I will be in the same boat w/ you guys. They said their goal was to be a playoff team by year four, it's time to put up or shut up.

RocKetHtown
04-24-2005, 04:06 PM
Jimmy Johnson could do wonders with this team..He would not be runing a 3-4 :thumbup

mdogg
04-24-2005, 05:21 PM
We will be saved! We have Evans and Chamberlin! NOT!

ojthecat
04-24-2005, 05:28 PM
well tbo I am not a fan of the cowboys but they have won a hell of a lot of super bowls runing a 4-3..More then New England..But New England has the players to use it the Texans do not..and TJ played in a 4-3 at fsu so maybe they should have picked a player that played in a 3-4 not a 4-3 :wacko:

For your information the Cowboys are going to a 3-4 this year. Also the Texans have always said that we are on a 5 year plan-- not a 3 year plan or a 4 year plan but a 5 year plan. Last I checked this will be year 4 and yes it gets tougher each year we are getting better. I say CC rocks and we will make the playoffs this year. Ask yourself one question are we better now than we were at the end of last year. I say yes much better.

mdogg
04-24-2005, 06:00 PM
They got smoked by us in are first year in the league.

mdogg
04-24-2005, 06:02 PM
As A Owner I Will Not Root For Them!

Holden135
04-24-2005, 06:16 PM
well tbo I am not a fan of the cowboys but they have won a hell of a lot of super bowls runing a 4-3..More then New England..But New England has the players to use it the Texans do not..and TJ played in a 4-3 at fsu so maybe they should have picked a player that played in a 3-4 not a 4-3 :wacko:

The Cowboys won their titles about a decade ago. Defenses and offenses have become a lot more complex by then and the 4-3 is becoming unpopular. Speed is the greatest necessity in the league now. Just look at the draft, speed was the most cuvoted(sp?) aspect. The Pats have showed that by having a lot of team speed especially at lb and an oversized, hole pluggin, run stuffing d-line you can win a lot of games.

dalemurphy
04-24-2005, 07:03 PM
so..true texans fans..everybody complains.do you not do it..do u not get on the site and complain about how texans loose games they should win..do you not complain about what players they pick..ask yourself if you are true..i didnt think so..we just say what we think is what they should do..we speak the truth.. DJ is a player and he is darn good..im sorry you dont like oklahoma but name a better linebacker than him.

well, according to Carolina, Thomas Davis (who has never played LB), is a better LB than Derrick Johnson... They were in a Superbowl two years ago, by the way.

I have no problem with complaining or even with criticism. I was excited when DJ was there at 13 as well. My response was to that joker who said that since the Texans don't like the Longhorns, he may not like the Texans.

Davis37
04-24-2005, 07:05 PM
well, according to Carolina, Thomas Davis (who has never played LB), is a better LB than Derrick Johnson... They were in a Superbowl two years ago, by the way.

I have no problem with complaining or even with criticism. I was excited when DJ was there at 13 as well. My response was to that joker who said that since the Texans don't like the Longhorns, he may not like the Texans.

Yeah Carolina was in the superbowl 2 years ago, but where were they last year? Hummmm... :hmmm: Makes you wonder

dalemurphy
04-24-2005, 07:08 PM
Yeah Carolina was in the superbowl 2 years ago, but where were they last year? Hummmm... :hmmm: Makes you wonder

they were ravaged by injuries and free agency and yet they still were the second best team in the NFC by December.

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 07:29 PM
I would still like a couple things explained to me by the knowledgable fans here :rolleyes:

1. How will our defense stop the run with Greenwood, Wong, Peek, and Babin? Not a single run stuffer in that group.

2. How will we get pressure on the QB without anything new added this year? Peek made plays when he was on the field, but that speaks for something, that he wasnt on the field all the time. Coupled with the fact that he isnt great in pass coverage, and he wasnt starting, so offenses didnt work too much on stopping his pass rush.

3. How will our corners do, when they have to defend Wide recievers for five seconds at a time. What about our safety situation?

4. Our offensive line still sucks, and we did nothing to make it better.



So maybe yall can explain to me why Casserly thinks we should be adding depth, instead of adding players who we can get on the field ASAP?

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 09:18 PM
I would still like a couple things explained to me by the knowledgable fans here :rolleyes:

1. How will our defense stop the run with Greenwood, Wong, Peek, and Babin? Not a single run stuffer in that group.

2. How will we get pressure on the QB without anything new added this year? Peek made plays when he was on the field, but that speaks for something, that he wasnt on the field all the time. Coupled with the fact that he isnt great in pass coverage, and he wasnt starting, so offenses didnt work too much on stopping his pass rush.

3. How will our corners do, when they have to defend Wide recievers for five seconds at a time. What about our safety situation?

4. Our offensive line still sucks, and we did nothing to make it better.



So maybe yall can explain to me why Casserly thinks we should be adding depth, instead of adding players who we can get on the field ASAP?


Our starting defense for next year: and someone explain to me how this is better than last years:

Walker Payne Robaire
Babin Wong Greenwood Peek
Dunta Coleman ?? Buchanan

Looks like one of the top 5 worst defenses in the league to me, and thats being positive...

ojthecat
04-24-2005, 09:22 PM
I would still like a couple things explained to me by the knowledgable fans here :rolleyes:

1. How will our defense stop the run with Greenwood, Wong, Peek, and Babin? Not a single run stuffer in that group.

2. How will we get pressure on the QB without anything new added this year? Peek made plays when he was on the field, but that speaks for something, that he wasnt on the field all the time. Coupled with the fact that he isnt great in pass coverage, and he wasnt starting, so offenses didnt work too much on stopping his pass rush.

3. How will our corners do, when they have to defend Wide recievers for five seconds at a time. What about our safety situation?

4. Our offensive line still sucks, and we did nothing to make it better.



So maybe yall can explain to me why Casserly thinks we should be adding depth, instead of adding players who we can get on the field ASAP?


Let me try

1. I would disagree. Babin did a very good job last year remember his first game against LT? Wong will be fine inside. And Peek all he did was make plays.

2. Pass rush will come from Peek, Babin and the corners.

3. Our corners did a fine job last year. They should only be better this year and no the QB will not have 5 seconds to throw the ball.

4. Our OL will be together for another year. That will make them better. Wand will be much improved. Our running game should be improved and our passing game should be improved with the addition of Mathis.

5. We are going to better this year. Our Defensive speed has been upgraded and we will be making the playoffs.

Marcus
04-24-2005, 09:25 PM
Considering your icon and what your name is, those kinds of comments are expected. When you're done being pissed about DJ, be sure to let us know. Right now, you have no credibility . . . none.

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 09:30 PM
Considering your icon and what your name is, those kinds of comments are expected. When you're done being pissed about DJ, be sure to let us know. Right now, you have no credibility . . . none.

DJ would not have fixed our problems..... Our problems come from no size in our MLB core, and losing both of our starters from last year. Losing out on a two year removed pro bowl corner for a head case who has been injured a ton the past 3 seasons.

We had a horrible pass rush last season, how will it get better? Babin is going to be a double digit sack threat in his second year? That would be awesome, but not very probable.

Please provide some counterarguments as someone else has done.

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 09:36 PM
Let me try

1. I would disagree. Babin did a very good job last year remember his first game against LT? Wong will be fine inside. And Peek all he did was make plays.

2. Pass rush will come from Peek, Babin and the corners.

3. Our corners did a fine job last year. They should only be better this year and no the QB will not have 5 seconds to throw the ball.

4. Our OL will be together for another year. That will make them better. Wand will be much improved. Our running game should be improved and our passing game should be improved with the addition of Mathis.

5. We are going to better this year. Our Defensive speed has been upgraded and we will be making the playoffs.

1. I agree Babin should become a better pass rush threat. As far as Peek becoming one is yet to be seen. Teams will be able to gameplan for him now that he is starting. But he could have a good pass rush season as well. Peek however, will struggle in pass coverage and rush defense.

2. Our corners shouldnt be considered reasons why our pass rush defense wont suck. You could be right about Peek and Babin, I just dont see either one of them getting more than 6-7 sacks a piece.

3. OUr corners did an amazing job last year considering how sorry our pass rush was. Is Buchanon able to stay healthy? Is he going to be a detriment to the team? Is he as good as Glenn?

4. I think our offense will be better as well, but dont expect Mathis to make an immediate impact. It will take him awhile and will be a development pick.

5. Team speed increased? Maybe.... who is going to stop teams from running it up the middle? And with two OLBs who will struggle in pass coverage?

ojthecat
04-24-2005, 09:42 PM
1. I agree Babin should become a better pass rush threat. As far as Peek becoming one is yet to be seen. Teams will be able to gameplan for him now that he is starting. But he could have a good pass rush season as well. Peek however, will struggle in pass coverage and rush defense.

2. Our corners shouldnt be considered reasons why our pass rush defense wont suck. You could be right about Peek and Babin, I just dont see either one of them getting more than 6-7 sacks a piece.

3. OUr corners did an amazing job last year considering how sorry our pass rush was. Is Buchanon able to stay healthy? Is he going to be a detriment to the team? Is he as good as Glenn?

4. I think our offense will be better as well, but dont expect Mathis to make an immediate impact. It will take him awhile and will be a development pick.

5. Team speed increased? Maybe.... who is going to stop teams from running it up the middle? And with two OLBs who will struggle in pass coverage?


The fact that Peek wasn't starting has nothing to do with other teams not scouting him. This is the NFL these teams gameplan everything. When peek was on the field last year everybody in the stadium knew his only job was to rush the passer.

What is this about PB staying healthy? His health is not an issue and you know it.

Mathis will help open up the inside for AJ that is what he will bring. He is FAST.

Our OLB's will not be in much pass coverage Capers has always liked to use them to rush the passer. He now has 2 that can do this. You will see a marked improvment over last year. Shaper was too slow to cover TE. That will not be an issue with Greenwood.

Texanshot
04-24-2005, 09:44 PM
I am very confused....I am willing to give people another chance but why didn't we pick any offensive linemen????? I am very very very very CONFUSED HERE....?????? i HAVE faith in casserly but why no offensive line help.....I am not quick to judge on travis yet....we will wait and see....

texanshot :hmmm:

OzzO
04-24-2005, 09:50 PM
Ah... this is fun. As obviously, everyone has their opinion and highly doubtful another on the board will change their view, I'll add mine...

First of all - Casserly a marked man? Uh, no. Why did the Skins start adopting the knee-jerk attitude once CC left of get the "best players" out there in whatever role they are and if they don't perform, get others at all cost WE WILL WIN.... hasn't worked to well has it? Bring the savior Gibbs in... wait he didn't do well in the first year back - GET RID OF HIM!!! (Sound familiar?)

DJ - okay, so he's the savior that would have brought us to the promised land!!! Maybe, maybe not. I've heard the hype and the love and even the stop looking for depth and fill a need. He was a "depth" and would not fit in the scheme we are trying to implement apprently. Wasn't Taylor and (a CB who's name escapes me) all the hype on the board last year and when DRob was picked, people screamed and questioned these same questions one year ago?

For those golly the Cowboy, Pats, Titans yada yada a better lovers... there's other boards out there, nobody's keeping ya here. It's good to have a disserning viewpoint but at least have a point to back it up as to why. Comparing these same team's year 3 to ours (or individual players) would be a good start.

Personally, with the TJ pick - it has sparked an interest. Glad to see some youth coming onto the line now before the others fall apart. Hard to get the 4 giving pressure when the 3 can't take on the O-line giving the corners and safeties a near impossible task of staying on their man for an extended amount of time.

Stopping the run? Was last year better?
Stopping the pass? Did we get pressure last year? I think we did add some things this year, personally. Last year we weren't quite up among the pack much less the elite.

Lastly - how will positions, a unit, or a team overall improve if your constantly bringing in new personell or methods thinking it's the cure-all when there will have to be square one learning process once more?

Not looking to sway anyone, as it's not gonna happen, but let's just stay tuned before we look to launch the front office and all players on a yearly basis (especially when there hasn't been a slight suggestion of a quality replacement.)

Sorry, that was about 5 cents. :heh:

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 09:53 PM
Ah... this is fun. As obviously, everyone has their opinion and highly doubtful another on the board will change their view, I'll add mine...

First of all - Casserly a marked man? Uh, no. Why did the Skins start adopting the knee-jerk attitude once CC left of get the "best players" out there in whatever role they are and if they don't perform, get others at all cost WE WILL WIN.... hasn't worked to well has it? Bring the savior Gibbs in... wait he didn't do well in the first year back - GET RID OF HIM!!! (Sound familiar?)

DJ - okay, so he's the savior that would have brought us to the promised land!!! Maybe, maybe not. I've heard the hype and the love and even the stop looking for depth and fill a need. He was a "depth" and would not fit in the scheme we are trying to implement apprently. Wasn't Taylor and (a CB who's name escapes me) all the hype on the board last year and when DRob was picked, people screamed and questioned these same questions one year ago?

For those golly the Cowboy, Pats, Titans yada yada a better lovers... there's other boards out there, nobody's keeping ya here. It's good to have a disserning viewpoint but at least have a point to back it up as to why. Comparing these same team's year 3 to ours (or individual players) would be a good start.

Personally, with the TJ pick - it has sparked an interest. Glad to see some youth coming onto the line now before the others fall apart. Hard to get the 4 giving pressure when the 3 can't take on the O-line giving the corners and safeties a near impossible task of staying on their man for an extended amount of time.

Stopping the run? Was last year better?
Stopping the pass? Did we get pressure last year? I think we did add some things this year, personally. Last year we weren't quite up among the pack much less the elite.

Lastly - how will positions, a unit, or a team overall improve if your constantly bringing in new personell or methods thinking it's the cure-all when there will have to be square one learning process once more?

Not looking to sway anyone, as it's not gonna happen, but let's just stay tuned before we look to launch the front office and all players on a yearly basis (especially when there hasn't been a slight suggestion of a quality replacement.)

Sorry, that was about 5 cents. :heh:

Sean Taylor and Deangelo Hall were drafted ahead of Dunta, so the same argument does not apply.

By the way, I have quit arguing that we should have picked up DJ, I am arguing that our defense is going to be horrible with the losses of Glenn, Foreman, and Sharper.

Htown34s
04-24-2005, 09:59 PM
By the way, I have quit arguing that we should have picked up DJ, I am arguing that our defense is going to be horrible with the losses of Glenn, Foreman, and Sharper.

The level of Forman's contribution was questionable. Sharper was sound, but his play didn't match his salary. Glenn's play does match his salary IMO (thats why he's the last to go through this) because CB's are a premium. But his premium salary added with his longevity being only another year or two makes the Buchanan deal a no brainer.

Casserly and Capers know what they are dealing with here with output, salary, fan favorite, future output, etc. and we should be greatful that they are being as brutally honest as possible assessing everyone to make our team better.

Htown34s
04-24-2005, 10:05 PM
I am very confused....I am willing to give people another chance but why didn't we pick any offensive linemen????? I am very very very very CONFUSED HERE....??????

Basically it was a down year for OL in the draft, coupled with next year being much better. Pretend you are a wine collector. Do you blow $1,000 on a bad harvest when the next looks so promising? Say the OL class is grading out at a C+. Do you use a high pick on a low grade player when you have an A- or B+ class in the waiting?

Casserly explained the same thing as why they took a DL with the 16th pick. TJ may end up being better then Jimmy Kennedy from last year's draft taken with a top 10 pick.

OzzO
04-24-2005, 10:06 PM
Sean Taylor and Deangelo Hall were drafted ahead of Dunta, so the same argument does not apply.....

I meant it from the fans "this is the chosen one" perspective, not so much where they were drafted in relation to our pick, but I get what you're saying. (and thanks for reminding me of D. Hall)

ojthecat
04-24-2005, 10:14 PM
Basically it was a down year for OL in the draft, coupled with next year being much better. Pretend you are a wine collector. Do you blow $1,000 on a bad harvest when the next looks so promising? Say the OL class is grading out at a C+. Do you use a high pick on a low grade player when you have an A- or B+ class in the waiting?

Casserly explained the same thing as why they took a DL with the 16th pick. TJ may end up being better then Jimmy Kennedy from last year's draft taken with a top 10 pick.


What OL would you have liked for us to pick??

cuppacoffee
04-24-2005, 10:17 PM
Keep deleting me I want be coming back to see any games :wacko:

Really think you will be missed? :wacko:

BattleRedGuy
04-24-2005, 10:24 PM
By the way, I have quit arguing that we should have picked up DJ, I am arguing that our defense is going to be horrible with the losses of Glenn, Foreman, and Sharper.[/QUOTE]

If Glenn is indeed gone, I do see a major problem with the defense until someone takes a leadership role. Right now, I do not know who that person would be and if nobody steps up, YIKES.

I agree the value of Sharper and Foreman from a productivity standpoint was no longer worth keeping them. I don't remember Foreman playing on passing downs at the end of the season and we had too many drives extended by 10-12 yard passes to an RB or TE. Speed is needed to cover this area (and cover for Peek until he gets it).

I'm not too worried about stopping the run. Walker, Payne and Smith can hold their own and keep the o-line off the backers. Maybe our new ILBs will get to the runner before he has already gained 4-5 yards. I'm hoping Johnson can provide the push of the middle on passing downs to at least make the quarterback think the rush is coming.

beerlover
04-24-2005, 10:41 PM
In your eyes maybe, but not in Capers or Casserly's eyes. I'll defer to their judgement, not yours.

wow that really hurts, last check with the one exception of Morency the draft grades of Capers/Casserly where independant of anything I've read or heard, other players the Texans drafted graded out much lower than players passed on, thats not my opinion its from many different sources. I would certainly hope that with the millions they spend they do a better job, but does that make my opinion and of others any less valid?

they wouldn't have gotten cute, they would have picked him with the 13th. I know it would be easier for you to swallow if you thought that they wanted him, but "gambled and lost". But you are going to have to swallow hard and accept the fact that they didn't want your boy, so get over it!

you are really the funny one, not once during the entire draft process have a ever been on the DJ bandwagon, to be honest I didn't think he would even be an option so I did not want to fuel any fires. the fact he became available was unbelievable, that the Texans traded down then selected a player rated 72nd by ourlads with the 16th pick is absolutely dumbfounding.

It's been said from day one that DJ would be best suited to play the weakside of a 4-3. They saw a more impending need to to shore up the defensive line, not take a 4-3 linebacker and convert him to the 3-4 scheme. You do that with lower round picks.

in most cases I'd agree with that statement expect with the caliber of talent in DJ. You can't catergorize certain players other than to say they are playmakers and most people besides you of course would agree with that.

I'm glad that Casserly and Capers want to win enough to try to improve the football team, and glad they don't have your attitude about it. I'm really surprised you actually take the time away from "life's more important conquests" to bother watching football at all.

I will, thanks for your personal attack and outreaching arms of compassion. I guess anyone who disagrees with you has a poor attitude and should not bother watching football at all.

If DJ was as good as you think he was, he would have been gone way before the 13th pick. You didn't stop to wonder why he feel that far?

yeah right! DJ falling into the Texans lap was completly unexpected to wonder at the time, strange things do happen like why would Detroit take a WR with their 1st pick three years in a row? all I know and many people feel the same way (not just Texas or DJ fans) is that Derrick Johnson was the BPA @ the 13th pick.

Well, again, I'm sorry you feel this should be a popularity contest. If you lived up in the Northeast around the Boston area, you probably wouldn't be happy with how they run the New England Patriots either.

once again that pure speculation on your part. I only know & care about the Texans and this draft did not turn out favorably in my opinion for the future of the franchise. it was much easier to digest the trade for PB than trading down for Travis Johnson. all poplularity contests aside.

texman8
04-24-2005, 10:42 PM
The safety's name is Glenn Earl. Man,you are depressing. What are you like when you are being negative? At the end of last season, Texans' defense had a stretch of seven(?) scoreless quarters till the cropper against the Browns. If the Texans can be more consistent on offense;that would help the defense.

Htown34s
04-24-2005, 10:46 PM
What OL would you have liked for us to pick??

I liked Chris Spencer Center/6-3/309 from Mississippi. He was projected to go in round 2 or 3. He ended up going to Seattle with the 26th overall pick. A CENTER. David Baas was good too. He went 1st pick in the 2nd round. The interior linemen were good this year. Barron or Brown would be 2nd round picks any other time.

McKinney totally broke down on multiple occasions last year. I know nothing of Drew Hodgdon, our 5th round pick, but I wouldn't be surprised if he got some playing time this year.

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 10:50 PM
The safety's name is Glenn Earl. Man,you are depressing. What are you like when you are being negative? At the end of last season, Texans' defense had a stretch of seven(?) scoreless quarters till the cropper against the Browns. If the Texans can be more consistent on offense;that would help the defense.

That was more of a: I am not sure who is going to start there.... especially since they he is rotating with McCree. :)

And this is me being negative :wacko:

But seriously, all things aside, I think we go 7-9 again from what I have seen so far. I like Greenwood alot, but having Wong and Greenwood in the middle doesnt look promising to me. We will be even younger and inexperienced on defense next year and that worries me alot.

Remember, the biggest jump in play is usually after the second season, so expecting the rookies to play that much better after last year could be unrealistic. But Dunta is a playmaker in every definition of the word so who really knows. I am just giving my opinion.

You can say screw him he is just on pissy cuz he didnt get his longhorn. I never expected to get him. I just really disliked our first round pick. I dislike Travis Johnson, and I thought we were drafting BPA. I would have been much happier with Marcus Spears who is much more proven.

Hopefully, I am way wrong and we go 10-6....

Htown34s
04-24-2005, 10:52 PM
I don't remember Foreman playing on passing downs at the end of the season and we had too many drives extended by 10-12 yard passes to an RB or TE.

One reason you remember that is because Sharper was hurt the last few games of last year and DaShon Polk played instead. I think this might have been a red flag for the coaching staff on how much our LB crew were under performing. Polk filled in with little experience and there was no loss in talent. The coaches saw this and knew it wasn't Polk playing lights out, but that Foreman wasn't that special.

texman8
04-24-2005, 10:53 PM
Using Ourlads' rating as a basis for dissing TJ as our 1st round pick is your right. Most mocks had TJ going in mid 1st round. Ourlads can be off the wall on some of their prospect ratings. I had their newsletter at one time,never renew it;same with Kiper's. The only one that matters is one is in Texans' draftroom.

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 11:06 PM
Using Ourlads' rating as a basis for dissing TJ as our 1st round pick is your right. Most mocks had TJ going in mid 1st round. Ourlads can be off the wall on some of their prospect ratings. I had their newsletter at one time,never renew it;same with Kiper's. The only one that matters is one is in Texans' draftroom.

I am a huge college football fan, and love to follow the scouting out of high school.

For those who dont know Travis Johnson was the number one rated DT coming out of high school. He did a great job as a freshman, and then his sophomore and junior season he had injury/problems of the field that kept him from being effective. Watching games of him, made him look like an arrogant jerk, who celebrated after every play where he touched a ball carrier.

He is a huge underachiever, and did not show fire all the time. Coupled with the fact that he is a known trouble maker and has alot problems with his temper.

I just generally dont like the personality I see on the field, along with I hate underachievers who dont get where they want because of off the field/effort problems.

ledzeppelin229
04-24-2005, 11:17 PM
I want to address a few things that people seem to be questioning -

First, the idea we don't have any leaders left on the D - Gary Walker is still around, while he isn't at the top of his game currently, he's still more than capable of making sure the younger guys are working hard. I also think Wong can be considered a Def leader simply because he'll be one of the originals still left, and I think Dunta will step up into a leadership role in the secondary.

I think the TJ attitude issues are being overblown by people unhappy with the pick. The two major blemishes have either 1) been acquitted or 2) clearly the "punching a Minnesota scout" was severely inaccurate.

As for the Linebackers, we have two excellent coverage LBers in Greenwood and Wong and the argument that they aren't big enough to stop the run makes no sense at all. Green (238) is 1 lb less than Sharper, and Wong is listed at 250. Not to mention Babin (at almost 260) was extremely solid against the run and should improve in his 2nd year with the experience and the improved D-Line. Peek is listed around 250 and is probably our most athletic LB, so if he can play with discipline, I'm very confident about our LB core.

I would like to see Aaron Glenn stay but really I only see improvement on the defense. Overall it's a much more athletic group and I would be disappointed in a way if we don't lead the league in interceptions next season.

ComstockLode
04-24-2005, 11:40 PM
I want to address a few things that people seem to be questioning -

First, the idea we don't have any leaders left on the D - Gary Walker is still around, while he isn't at the top of his game currently, he's still more than capable of making sure the younger guys are working hard. I also think Wong can be considered a Def leader simply because he'll be one of the originals still left, and I think Dunta will step up into a leadership role in the secondary.

I think the TJ attitude issues are being overblown by people unhappy with the pick. The two major blemishes have either 1) been acquitted or 2) clearly the "punching a Minnesota scout" was severely inaccurate.

As for the Linebackers, we have two excellent coverage LBers in Greenwood and Wong and the argument that they aren't big enough to stop the run makes no sense at all. Green (238) is 1 lb less than Sharper, and Wong is listed at 250. Not to mention Babin (at almost 260) was extremely solid against the run and should improve in his 2nd year with the experience and the improved D-Line. Peek is listed around 250 and is probably our most athletic LB, so if he can play with discipline, I'm very confident about our LB core.

I would like to see Aaron Glenn stay but really I only see improvement on the defense. Overall it's a much more athletic group and I would be disappointed in a way if we don't lead the league in interceptions next season.

Weight is not a big factor when it comes to linebacker play. It has to do with capabilities.

I will use DJ as an example since everyone thinks I am the biggest homer of all time, and I am trying not to dissappoint.

DJ weighed in at 245. But to think that he is a run stuffing tough linebacker isnt correct. He is a speedy agile linebacker that would be best in run blitzing and attacking from the weak side of the play.

Sharper took on blocks and made tough plays in the middle of the field. Greenwood is more of a speedy type defender and not so much of a guy who will stuff every run at him.

Obviously greenwood will be able to make some play as well, but I just dont see the big guy in the middle that people run away from. I see a speedy MLB that defenses will run at. I really have no idea what Wong will do in that position, but I have never been a huge fan of his.

We will see how it works out, and I hope I am wrong, but I am feeling pretty pessimisstic about our defense at the moment. As if all of you didnt already know this.... :fib

Many of you dont understand, but I realize that Greenwood and DJ would not have been good in the middle. We would get the ball rammed down our throat.
I originally was looking forward to a sharper DJ combo where DJ ran free to make plays in the backfield and from the weakside, and Sharper making the tough plays.

What I am most dissappointed about, is what our selection was. I didnt think Travis Johnson was anywhere near the best player on the board, and I do not think much of him. See some of my other posts...

Htown34s
04-24-2005, 11:45 PM
We will see how it works out, and I hope I am wrong, but I am feeling pretty pessimisstic about our defense at the moment. As if all of you didnt already know this.... :fib

I agree with you ComstockLode. I have to hope that C&C checked out TJ enough and were satisfied. Remember Sapp coming out of Miami.

Dunta isn't a guy who a lot of offensive coords feared at the beginning of last year, but his small size didn't equate to his hitting ability. Lets hope that C&C have assembled a fast AND fearsome group this offseason. The fast part is known, the fearsome will have to be shown this fall...

jr0ck
04-25-2005, 01:33 AM
this is for everyone who shares a simaliar opinion to this:

"wong sucks and doesn't make an impact. we have no chance against the run because sharper/foreman are gone. TJ isn't a 3-4 DL. the 3-4 sucks, if we run a 3-4 than why don't we draft players from a 3-4? we won't have a pass rush. blah blah blahbitty blah etc, etc"

i have this as response:

how good were we last year against the run with sharper at MLB?

travis johnson had this to say about his 3-4 experience thus far:

(on how he feels he fits into the 3-4 defense) Ive played all three positions, and Im just waiting for the challenges and opportunities to show that I can play all three positions there.

on playing nose tackle and his experience at that position) I love nose tackle. I started there as a sophomore at Florida State. Im ready and very excited about this great opportunity.

-from the texans website (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1641)

and to those who suggest we draft players from a 3-4 defense in college, only virginia and maryland used a 3-4 scheme last year. so unless you want a handful of players to choose from, from a draft of hundreds, you might want to reconsider your position.

as for wong being a difference maker, i guess 71 tackels - 5.5 sacks -3 ints - and 6 passes defensed doesn't change the game very much for our team, nevermind he is a very stout 250 lbs and a stanford graduate. yeah, he doesn't have the ability to lead a defense, cover and stuff the run at MLB, i would worry too :rolleyes:

how aren't we going to have a pass rush next year? we know peek is fast off the edge, and without a first day pass rusher taken it appears the coaches have faith he will see close to full-time action next year. wong had 5.5 sacks last year to lead all texans. greenwood's speed is supposed to open our blitz packages up because of his ability to cover ground quickly in the middle as well as not be a liability in coverage. and last but not least...jason babin lead the team last year with QB pressure's and came away with 4 sacks. after last year's trial by fire under his belt (and a little luck :) ) double digit sacks wouldn't be that surprising. not to mention d-rob out of the nickel CB and TJ in the DL rotation to keep our big three fresh and disrupt the backfield as well. 17+ tackles for a loss in the ACC is pretty impressive :thumbup

as for not having the players for the 3-4, the only position that is tough to find is a good two-gap NT. other than that the DE's are primarily DT's, the OLB's are pretty much mobile DE's and the ILB's are pretty much a conventional sam/will combo. we know payne can be a difference maker when healthy so why the confusion with personnel fit?

i think that pretty much sums it up :cool: ...

Dionysus22
04-25-2005, 02:59 AM
I'm not here to cry and complain, but I do have to stick up for the Longhorn faithful. To say that DJ wasn't the right fit for us because he's a 4-3 LB is insane.

What did we just do with Babin last year? Wasn't he a 4-3 DE that we MADE into an OLB because he was athletic enough and we're giving him time adjust. And the jury is still out on him. I hope he does better this year, I really do.

Then we draft TJ...A 4-3 DT that we are planning on MAKING a DE to fit our scheme.

Why couldn't we draft DJ and MAKE him an Ilb that would fit our scheme? I admitt Greenwood is going to add some speed to it but wouldn't speed be better with even more speed!?

Speaking of Wong but didn't we MAKE him an outside backer? Wasn't he inside in MIN?

The point is, it seems like people are coming up with a bunch of excuses on why we didn't pick DJ. We'll never know. Only the people that were in that war room know. Only CC and Capers will know.

The bottom line is this, we could have MADE DJ into an ILB. And as far as the wrap on him "running around bloacks"...It's called coaching!!! I have faith in our staff that they would have straightend that out as soon as he would have gotten here.

But enough of that. What's done is done. I hope TJ blows G-funk outta tha water and takes his job. And he becomes a cornerstone of our defense for years to come. Welcome to Houston TJ!

jr0ck
04-25-2005, 11:28 AM
To say that DJ wasn't the right fit for us because he's a 4-3 LB is insane.

i don't think that it isn't possible, or that DJ playing WIL in a 4-3 means he is a sqaure peg in a round hole. i think it has to do with more DJ's utilization in the 4-3 v 3-4. it is quite apparent that our coaches saw more possibility for babin to be made into a succesful 3-4 OLB than DJ being made into a 3-4 LB.

A 4-3 DT that we are planning on MAKING a DE to fit our scheme

this is actually speculation right now. in the interview i qouted from above, the reporter specifically askes TJ about "playing nose tackle and his experience at that position". he responded by saying I love nose tackle. I started there as a sophomore at Florida State. Im ready and very excited about this great opportunity. when you think about the money we threw at payne and walker, bringing in a player who can play both NT/DE means his fate is still uncertain IMO.

Speaking of Wong but didn't we MAKE him an outside backer? Wasn't he inside in MIN?

he is a good fit at ILB, but says his true position is OLB, which he started at for us last year. shifting LB positions is not as drastic as making a former DE drop into coverage.

Vinny
04-25-2005, 01:21 PM
I'm not here to cry and complain, but I do have to stick up for the Longhorn faithful. To say that DJ wasn't the right fit for us because he's a 4-3 LB is insane. Each with a different schemeNot according to the Texans or the Panthers. We both passed on him. What did we just do with Babin last year? Wasn't he a 4-3 DE that we MADE into an OLB because he was athletic enough and we're giving him time adjust. And the jury is still out on him. I hope he does better this year, I really do.All OLB's are coverted DE's. Not a good argument. Babin had a solid rookie year. Hard to complain about his production when you measure it against other strong side 3-4 linebackers. Then we draft TJ...A 4-3 DT that we are planning on MAKING a DE to fit our scheme. In case you haven't noticed, all of our DE's are pretty much Tackles. We don't use conventional 4-3 endsSpeaking of Wong but didn't we MAKE him an outside backer? Wasn't he inside in MIN? He was a DE in College if you really want to know. Thats what all our OLBs are btw.

Bottom line is the Texans didn't rate DJ as high as you guys. We all knew a good portion of the NFL didn't like his game in every defensive scenario. Looks like the Texans were one of them.

TheOgre
04-25-2005, 03:15 PM
Some of you seem confused about the makeup of the 3-4. There are 3 linemen that are basically larger 4-3 DT's. There are 2 OLB's that are undersized 4-3 DE's (Dwight Freeney would be great as an OLB). The 2 ILB's need to be undersized LB's (almost oversized SS's).

The 2005 draft was the worst O-line draft in about 20 years. Go back and look to see when the last time the first lineman was taken 16th overall. I would bet it hasn't happen often, if ever. Next year's draft is supposed to be one of the best ones. 4 OT's could go in the top 10. I think CC knew that and didn't want to reach for someone (Barron) in this draft.

Thoughts about our current O-line - Pitts and Wand should be better in their 2nd year's in their respective positions. McKinney didn't play well this past year and it looks like they potentially drafted his replacement in the 5th round. Wiegert was our best lineman in 2003. He is a good run blocker but merely a fair (at best) pass blocker. He was hindered by nagging injuries all last season. I expect him to be better this year. Wade is our best lineman. He was injured some but is a very good run blocker and average pass blocker. In terms of talent, we have a better line than San Diego but worse results. We need to work on shorter passes and keeping more guys back for protection. The talent of our line is pretty good at run blocking, but it is average at pass-blocking (at best). I see us improving if we adjust our pass blocking schemes.

Defense:
D-line: TJ is better than any backups we had on the line. Payne sustained a major injury at the end of the season and might not be full speed at the beginning of the year. Walker underperformed last year. He might not be long for this team if Payne gets healthy. I'd like to see more from Robaire Smith this year too.

LB: Gutted. I think Peek is more of a pass-rusher than Wong. He needs to show that he will be disciplined in both run containment and coverage. I think he could excel for us. Babin was good as a rookie and should be better. I want to see him get to the QB a lot more though. I don't think you will find many people that don't think Wong will be an improvement over Foreman. Wong is more geared for the inside than the outside IMO anyway. Greenwood adds speed but hasn't been a playmaker in his career. He will get the opportunity in our system. I'm not sure if he is up-to-the task or not. Sharper has been a solid player but not a playmaker. Replacing Sharper with Greenwood has no downside IMO. I just not sure there is an upside either.

DB: Earl, Robinson, Faggin, and Coleman should be better with another year under their belts. I hope Glenn stays because I am not sold on Buchanon. Phillip has great tangibles, but I am concerned about his intangibles. Perhaps he can turn it around under us. I'd prefer to keep Glenn, but I don't see that happening. I think in the short-run Buchanon < Glenn. In the long-run, I don't see Glenn around for much longer anyways, so Buchanon represents his heir apparent.

I think a lot hinges on the play of Babin, Peek, Greenwood, and Buchanon this year. They are the players I will watch the most defensively.

beerlover
04-25-2005, 04:03 PM
nice post Ogre, but I think most Texans fans understand the 3-4 by now, some are taking issue only with the fact Derrick Johnson could fit inside. The Texans also passed on Thomas Davis SS also with the idea of moving inside, maybe better in pass coverage. also we passed on David Pollack (your DE convert to the 3-4 OLB) Alex Barron a superior talent (but we are developing Wand) to Travis Johnson and Marcus Spears the top rated 3-4 DE in the draft on most boards other than the Texans.

Couple things remarkable happen'ed that really impacted the Texans. one was the Vikings taking Troy Williamson & not Mike Williams. then Detroit instead of taking Derrick Johnson selected Mike Williams. combine that with the fact the next two picks went 3-4 OLB in Demarcus Ware & Shaun Merriman the draft could not have gone worse for the Texans with that 13th pick. no way anyone can put a positive spin on this one for me, Travis Johnson was a need pick, not BPA all Casserly got was a 3rd pick next year and a rotational DT, not even a starter unless there are more injurys forthcoming.

Buchcanon for Glenn, maybe a long term gain if he comes to play up to his vaunted potential & the Texans are able to restructure his contract to reflect his value and insure his happiness, but Aaron Glenn to me is one of my favorite Texans, he always plays hard even when hurt, displays good leadership, tutors the young corners and is still excellent in coverage, he will be sorely missed.

My point is coming down to this- its all about big buisness and making good buisness decisions. it would seem the Texans are turning over a new leaf in this department and while it may be smart buisness does not mean its all good for buisness.

cuppacoffee
04-25-2005, 06:25 PM
having CASS as our GM makes me wish the titans\oilers were still in town. well at least i have team to root for go Titans.

Your New Friends Are Waiting For You (http://www.titansonline.com/)

RocKetHtown
04-25-2005, 07:27 PM
well, according to Carolina, Thomas Davis (who has never played LB), is a better LB than Derrick Johnson... They were in a Superbowl two years ago, by the way.

I have no problem with complaining or even with criticism. I was excited when DJ was there at 13 as well. My response was to that joker who said that since the Texans don't like the Longhorns, he may not like the Texans.Do me a faver Dale dont be calling me a Joker...Ace

Honoring Earl 34
04-25-2005, 09:43 PM
:woot I was reading that Spears did 225 only 15 times . That may have hurt him with the Texans . If T Johnson plays like he should this will die down . I think him and PB will bring in a little of that Florida swagger . That may not be so bad ( Emmitt & Irvin ) .

beerlover
04-25-2005, 11:53 PM
:woot I was reading that Spears did 225 only 15 times . That may have hurt him with the Texans . If T Johnson plays like he should this will die down . I think him and PB will bring in a little of that Florida swagger . That may not be so bad ( Emmitt & Irvin ) .

I sincerly hope your right about the Florida swagger, however Spears did 225 only 15 times is incorrect, Spears (6-3 5/8, 304) had 23 bench presses. as for Travis Johnson Johnson (6-3 7/8, 296) he also lifted 23 strength reps.

Everyone should know that I'm very dissapointed with this pick, with Marcus still on the board then going to Dallas, gee whiz it doesn't get much worse. if Travis becomes another Corey Simon then I'll be happy and admit I was wrong but for now I think the Texans did not evaulate him correctly as an interior lineman in the NFL with his speed and lack of dominating strength he would be more productive at end in the 3-4. his one redeeming characteristic is hustle & motor seems the Texans value this trait (look at Babin) more that raw skills, but then they could have picked Pollack as well and been finished with the Linebackers.

But I reckon its time to stop beating a dead horse and accept the fact he will soon be a Texan and support his role with the team. for the first time in years however you can bet I'm keeping a close eye on them Cowboys :heh:

RocKetHtown
09-11-2005, 06:27 PM
This was a great topic...hahahaha go KC go DJ won and the Texans lost hahahahaha

bigfootrulz
09-11-2005, 06:37 PM
texans look good today..poised for last place,new coach and a 1st round pick for next season

RocKetHtown
09-11-2005, 08:26 PM
noway man the Gm will give the frist pick away for 2 second round picks lmbo

Texas_Thrill
09-13-2005, 09:48 AM
That #9 pick we saw on NFL Draftcountdown.com isn't looking so UNrealistic right about now I tell you that.

BigBull17
09-13-2005, 11:07 AM
That #9 pick we saw on NFL Draftcountdown.com isn't looking so UNrealistic right about now I tell you that.
Yeah it is ..... thats to high

jr0ck
09-13-2005, 12:10 PM
This was a great topic...hahahaha go KC go DJ won and the Texans lost hahahahaha

prove it...


and i'm right AGAIN! jeez, who knew this could be so easy! :rolleyes:

guys career's aren't defined in one opening day game. barring injury, it'll take AT LEAST 3 years to see if we won or lost in passing on DJ. and as long as TJ contributes more and gets a larger role (most likely GFunk's replacement), then we won't have lost anything.

noway man the Gm will give the frist pick away for 2 second round picks lmbo

and although this hypothetical is VERY circumstantial, five days out of the week you would do this. lower contract expectations by the draftees, and usually outside of the top 10, the talent from the middle of the first to the end of the third is negligible and subjective (to a much higher degree than the first ten picks).